00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off, we're going to talk a little bit about gambling Twitter. I know we've done some of this stuff before, the false experts that are out there, the people that mislead the population, but what really bothers me the most is the toxicity that exists in gambling Twitter nowadays. I'll talk about why. All that and more. This week's Circles Off starts now. Welcome to welcome to circles off, episode number 105, right here on the hammer betting network, rob pazola, joined by johnny from bet stamp robby pazola fresh off his feature in a national news network. 

00:39
Yeah, second one I've had actually in the last couple years. Listen, I mean now that now that, uh, in ontario we've had actually in the last couple of years, listen, I mean now that in Ontario we've had regulated sports gambling. You know there's some topics of conversation, particularly around responsible gaming. I have some experience with that, which I've talked about on this program before, so it was a pretty natural fit. 

01:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Take everyone behind the scenes. I found this cool, so they actually came to your house, interviewed you in the backyard. 

01:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So this stems from like, right at the beginning of COVID, they wanted to do a piece on upcoming regulation in Canada, or in Ontario specifically. So, yeah, they came to my house and because the first time around they technically couldn't come inside it was actually, I think, cbc restrictions in terms of filming we had to film outside, so we just filmed it in my backyard. So, um, fast forward to about a month ago now. I remember, uh, carolina and new jersey were playing in the playoffs, like game two of that series, and, um, you know, they reached out. We're doing another piece on problem gaming and also like betting content in the space and, uh, the ask was to do a one-on-one interview with me and also to film me and a group of friends watching a sports game to see how, like what, what the experience is like with live betting and I'm sure that you didn't change your behaviors based on the fact that there was 17 cameras in your face. 

02:08
We definitely did not. Zach was there. Zach was part of it, producer Zach behind the glass, who does have his voice back this week. But they got it. They came and I just figured they were going to interview me inside and they're like you know what, like the backyard is really nice, a good filming spot, so let's film it out there again, and it's a little cold that day so to put a put on a jacket and we filmed it. It was good it's. You know, I've worked in media so I know how it works. But, like you know, one hour interview gets condensed into like 40 seconds, so like we'll get how long was the feature? 

02:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
the feature was eight and a half minutes eight and a We'll link in description if anyone wants to see. That feature Was a good piece of betting content. Yeah, that was, you know, I guess. Did they do think they did a fair job? I think they did it was. 

02:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it's tough. You know this is a nationally run segment in Canada, right On the state of sports betting, and it was. You have to get representation from all sides. So my opinion is that I believe that the ACGO iGaming Ontario I think that they have the best interests of bettors at heart, but maybe they're lacking some experience in the sports betting space and, like, a lot of the rules that they're putting in to protect bettors don't honestly make a whole lot of sense. Rules that they're putting in to protect bettors don't honestly make a whole lot of sense, you know, like having to click a check box when you log into an account saying that you're like of legal age and you're of, you know, no, actually it's it's supposed to say so. 

03:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The law is it has to say I am eligible and fit to play, and then you click it. And then the reason that they said that is because they're like well, if someone's like drinking too much shouldn't be betting, so if you're hammered, you log into your app, like no, I'm not fit to bet, of course. 

03:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is what I'm saying. Like this, these are the things I'm talking about, right, like, logically, there is some, there's some sort of protection that they're trying to put in place, but it doesn't make any sense. So that was my whole premise, right, it's like the same thing about advertising in Canada. They, the whole thing was like we don't want to follow the U? S model and have sports book after sports book just advertising their, their signup bonuses. You can't. You can't advertise your signup bonus if you're in Ontario right now, but every single commercial that runs on TV right now is promoting one feature which is the same game parlay, which is, in my opinion, much more harmful than advertising signup bonuses. Like you're, you're you're promoting essentially a bet type that has like a 15 to 20% hold at some recreational sports books as, like, a great way to have fun and make things entertaining for the game. Yeah, it is, but like we talk about this a lot of time, it's fun, you know, when you, when you win money, but like, when you're constantly losing and we're seeing in Ontario now, a lot of these sports books have retention problems they go. You know they can't retain their player base. Why do you think that happens? Because people lose their money so quickly and they say either I'm done with this or they're just gonna go find another sports book to play at it, because they think that that sports book is no good for them. So that was kind of like the angles I took. I think they represented me fairly. 

05:16
But you have the other side of the picture with people from ACGO talking about the rules that they put in place, how there's certain crackdowns on this and that and I don't know. It's tough, like I don't want to sound hypocritical. I'm obviously involved in the betting space. We run the Hammer as a betting network where we produce content. We try to do it in the right way. But that's never going to. You know, there's going to be, sadly, people that consume betting content and as much as I tell them, don't chase this number, only bet it to this number there's gonna be people that go and bet it past that number. You know, like I'm conscious of that right, same with Betstamp, right, like we try to do it in the right way. 

05:52
Line shopping. It's just like the easiest, easiest way not to lose a lot of money. But naturally there's going to be people that will only put in one sports book on bet stamp and they won't line shop. They're just gonna, you know, dunk away, like you know. So it's challenging and I don't want to come across as hypocritical, but that's just the nature of the space in terms of line shopping. I talk about it every single week circles off, brought to you by pinnacle. I would 100% recommend. If you are betting at multiple sportsbooks, pinnacle is one of them. If you're going to choose one Pinnacle, low margins, great sportsbook. They're available to bettors in Ontario. They are the world's sharpest sportsbook. Find out what pro bettors have known for decades. Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19-plus in Ontario. Please play responsibly. Not available to those in the U S. 

06:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So we haven't done this in a while, but we're going to pull open our bed stamp odd screen. Anyone who's on the YouTube you can take a look at this. Right now you can sign up for free at betstampapp. But what we're going to show here is why pinnacle is such an important sports book to have in your kind of a you know, portfolio of sports books. So pinnnacle actually they don't offer many bonuses. They don't have sign up deposit matches, things like that. They don't have a rewards program and what their kind of uh, you know their stick is. Their benefit is that they have tighter odds than everybody else when it comes to when it all comes down to it, typically, when you're looking at most games, there will be at least one of money line, spread or total where, depending on what side you want, pinnacle will have the best price. If you look here, you know, as of this recording, we're looking at miami versus denver right now and again. These could change by the time you listen to this episode, but we've got the best price on. The denver nuggets is at pinnacle. 

07:41
So if you want to bet dengets money line you searched, every single book in Ontario Includes the likes of, you know, every commercial you see on TV, pinnacle's got the best price minus 334. 

07:52
On over, right there spread Pinnacle also the best price if you want Denver. So anywhere in Canada, essentially, if you wanted to bet on the spread for Denver or on the money line for Denver, p Bet on the spread for Denver or on the money line for Denver, pinnacle is giving you the best price. And lastly, on the total over-under, pinnacle's got the best price on the under. So you see one game which is a basketball game right now, and if you want Denver, denver, spread or under, you can bet Pinnacle. If you want the other side, don't bet it at Pinnacle. But more often than not what you'll find is that at least one of these will be a pinnacle best odds and it's going to save you a lot of money in the long run. As always, you can find this easily, without having to search through a bunch of different screens, by just using bet stamp absolutely. 

08:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean that that outlines it right there. And ultimately, sports betting. As I mentioned in cbc, it's much more of a math problem than it is just knowing the teams and understanding it. And when you're constantly betting the best prices, you give yourself a much better chance for success in the long run. That's just a fact, plain and simple. Whether you're already a winner, you win more by getting better prices. If you're a small loser, you actually have a chance to be profitable. If you're just every single time taking a line, that's four or five, possibly even 10 cents better. The ranges on some of these books are also pretty wide, a lot of the times as well, so pretty valuable. There's not much going on in the summer, obviously, but baseball is a perfect example. You'll see some pretty wide margins Even if you're betting props. Props are even wider margins in some of these cases. You'll see arbitrage opportunities all the time in Ontario. So that's out there. Definitely make sure that you're using pinnacle. 

09:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Robbie did this feature. 

09:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, and it seemed like a couple people actually had a beef to pick with the feature, yeah, so I well, I have to talk about this like this could have featured in a Tweets that Trigger Us segment or whatever, but this has been on my mind for a long time right now, and one specific tweet was the trigger point for me. But people ask me a lot right, why don't you tweet as much anymore? Why do you not spend as much time on Twitter anymore? And, frankly, I just don't enjoy the Twitter community like I used to when I first started betting back in. I don't know a long time ago, when I first got to Twitter. When did I join Twitter? My account says probably like 2010 or something like that. It was very different to the way that Twitter exists nowadays. I joined back in July 2010. Wow, it was much more of a sense of community. There was much more positivity at that time than negativity, and if there's like one tweet that really outlines to me why I cannot stand gambling twitter anymore, it's this particular one. 

10:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
By a lucky a day so I've honestly seen this guy. I don't, I don't think he's that, I don't, I don't hate him I don't, I don't, I don't really hate anyone really, yeah, no, he's tweeted a lot of good things in the past. I will say about this guy Now, I don't know what you're about to say right now. You know, maybe I should just shut up Go. 

11:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, well so, plus, ev Analytics starts this thread right Because he sees the article in CBC and he takes a quote out of it. And this is exact. You know. He says Rob Pizzola is dropping knowledge on CBC. Thumbs up, and this is the quote that I gave Sports betting is more of a math problem than it is knowing sports. 

11:33
If people heard that, maybe it would affect their ability to bet or they would be turned off by it, but that's the truth. It's more of a math problem than actually knowing and understanding sports, and I try to communicate that to people, but they don't want to listen. This was a question that was specifically asked to me, and then that was my response, and the response that a lucky day came with said it's not quite true, though. It depends on the market and how well domain knowledge is priced into that market. I actually kind of somewhat agree with that. My response, which is very snarky because I am an asshole, is sure I'll be sure in every quote I drop going forwards to provide seven asterisks to cover all of the edge cases. And this is precisely what I hate about gambling Twitter, because there's a lot of people that are smart and have different perspectives and that they all win. 

12:24
And, like you can see the rest of this thread here, plus cv, jumps in again jeff benson from circa. Your ability to just argue for the sake of arguing is truly impressive, must be exhausting. That's exactly how I feel. I feel like there's so much arguing just for the sake of arguing and listen I can I'll call it a lot of people that I ever. I have no problems with this guy, by the way. A lucky day you're right. 

12:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's just arguing for the sake of arguing, like okay, sure, but you're not going to be able to put like that is true for 99.9 everyone to me, has to be the smartest person in the room at all times and you can talk like. 

12:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
there's a lot of things that really bug me about gambling twitter. We've talked about these before, right, like false expertise. That, like, is the number one that gets me False expertise. Lack of accountability huge, I would honestly say. Like addiction promotion as well, because there's people that are just out there to make a buck and they don't care at like, what expense that it's happening. Targeting individuals who are vulnerable that's part of it as well. Right, like all those things, misinformation, whatever that is all like part of what drives me crazy about gambling Twitter. 

13:37
And like the growth of sports betting in North America right, most of it comes stems from people who are not experts in the field portraying themselves as experts in the field. But then you have, like this tighter I'll call it sharp gambling Twitter community who really and this includes myself, by the way like I'm I'm fully aware that I am a hypocrite. I do a lot of the same stuff. Here. It's more about getting better as a group of people, but you actually have this group of people that are smart and sharp and understand it and could really help educate other people on this type of stuff, but instead they get bogged down with arguing with each other nonstop and so, or attacking others nonstop. It just creates like this toxic culture and behavior. And listen, everybody's motivations on social media are different, right, like there are some really sharp, like super sharp bettors out there who are honestly like set for life, where it's like they have no incentive to help other people get better at betting or they have nothing to do with their time and they just spend it online arguing with other people. But like, look at a guy like plus ev analytics. I mean he's very much guilty of it as well with the way that he goes, goes back and forth with other people. But again, it's just like, so pet, it gets to be so petty after a while. And there's some other examples that I'll go through of stuff that just bothers me, like just purely bothers me about the community that it's so lame. It's like the lamest. Let's hear it. So, zach, on this one, just scroll up just to the tweet before it. Okay so, jeff Ma, ideas for a Bet the Process guest this week. Rufus and I are all ears. 

15:44
One guy responds with chicken dinner or SP shoot. Sp shoot is the Twitter handle for Sam Penjatovic, who we had here on Circles Off before. Sam is a friend of mine. I've made that pretty clear in the episode. I've known Sam for a long time. I can tell you with like 100% certainty that it just happened that the example here is Sam. It doesn't make a difference as to who it is or not. Right Um digs um, who's very popular in the in the gambling Twitter community. Um responds to that tweet saying block me from this account too, please. And then he shows two screenshots where he's already blocked by Sam and he's blocked by the chicken dinner account. 

16:28
I don't know why people inferring that that's his burner dinner account. I don't know why, people Is he inferring that that's his burner? But I don't know why people wear it as a badge of honor that they're blocked by other people Like I don't, like I look at this stuff and it's like these people are so proud Like they constantly bring it to the attention that they're blocked. Like you've obviously said something at some point or another that's made this person never want to hear your opinion again on anything, and people treat it like a badge of honor that they're blocked by other people. I'll tell you one of the biggest mistakes I made in life Getting blocked by Darren Revell. I don't talk about it a whole lot, but it's actually like we got into an argument on Twitter over the actual dumbest thing and in hindsight it was like I could have very easily communicated with him without being a fucking total jackass say that's one of the biggest mistakes of your life. 

17:29
Well, because now I have to log out of my account every time I want to see Darren Rebell tweets Bro, come on, but like I don't, I don't and look to each their own. But this happens every day in gambling Twitter. Right, it's like can't see blocked. Well, you're fucking blocked because you were an asshole. That's why you were blocked, and it happens so often. 

17:50
Like, the way that people treat one another and talk to one another on this platform is unlike anything I've ever seen in life before. Like, honestly, the way people treat me and then I go to Bet Bash and they're shaking my hand as if they haven't been, like trolling me on Twitter for two years like we're best friends, is absurd. Like it's nuts. This is the culture of gambling Twitter. Do you know what I mean? Like, how is this anything to be proud about or to like publicize? I like, honestly, like Diggs is obviously very smart. If you follow his account, it's a pure troll account, 100%. Okay, it's mostly just ripping people in the community that make mistakes and stuff. He's obviously very intelligent and has a huge grasp of sports betting. Like it is clear, he is an alpha when it comes to betting on sports. Couldn't be more clear, by the way that he trolls other people, but ultimately like it's a really shitty thing to do and there's ways that you can go about correcting people without being an asshat is basically what I'm getting at. Does he have any incentive to do so? No, probably not. 

19:14
Will I catch a bunch of grief for this? Sure, I've done this stuff before in my life. Probably three weeks ago, I, quote, tweeted a guy where I was just like make it stop. I literally said I did nothing to message him on the side. Do I, you know, send him anything saying like here's why you're wrong or here's like reconsider, or whatever? I just quote tweeted him, pure attention seeking tweet. So I'm a guilty culprit as well, but it makes the space, it makes it like uninhabitable. Oh, here it is. 

19:52
Literally two weeks ago, two weeks ago, tell me you. So his tweet was. He did like. So he quote tweeted someone else. If you can't recognize that a minus 235 is sometimes keyword very good value, then you shouldn't be giving out betting advice, especially professionally. Click that guy's quote tweet that's it. He just tweeted that. He just tweeted that. 

20:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I know. Okay, so this guy's this is correct, yes, it's a good point. That's a good point. 

20:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now someone quote tweeted him saying tell me, you don't sports. You should say don't know sports betting without telling me you don't know sports betting. 

20:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh so he's saying like he's calling this guy. Okay, I gotta get it. So this guy, johnny lazarus, is saying that if you think a minus 235 could be a good bet, you're out to lunch. Then like, haha, thanks for exposing yourself that you don't know sports betting exactly. So in. 

20:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Thus what this, johnny? 

20:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
lazarus guy did is thus exposing yourself that you don't know sports betting Exactly, and thus what this Johnny Lazarus guy did is thus exposed himself that he doesn't know sports betting, correct. 

20:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So you could say he had it coming. 

20:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Ah, the double entendre. 

20:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You could say that he had it coming, but I just quote tweeted that and I put make it stop. And it got five retweets, 125 likes, 85,800 views. And then Clev ta put oh, so that's johnny's burner account as a joke, which I laughed at as well, but regardless, wait, sorry go up, scroll up, dude, but yeah, so yeah you, you just rose, rose to this guy as well that's what I'm saying, like so. 

21:22
So listen, I'm very well aware of it, I get it and I get into these states of mind, as I'm sure other people do, like when you're a better and you win at betting and you're successful, and like this isn't a pat on the back, but like one of the most frustrating things for you is when other people try to pass themselves off as winners, who clearly aren't, because the ones that win can easily spot those that don't win. But it does then create, like this environment essentially, where, like, nobody can coexist and it just turns into this every day, like why? Why? You know you're selling, you're celebrating that someone else blocked you. Like, think about that, just from a okay, but does so. 

22:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So you think you think this guy call him digs that's what everyone calls him. That's obviously not his regular name, but okay, so you think digs wins oh, I, I, I, I'm certain like I I would say with a hundred. 

22:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm not disagreeing with you. 

22:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I also think. I also think the same, but I'm saying like do you know how much he wins? Do you know what he bets? You know things? No, no one, even really knows, I have no idea. 

22:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I have no idea. I the only reason I can know I I will say with certainty that I know is because of the. His trolling style is just to retweet. Usually he just retweets stuff. That is obviously wrong and like a smart better can see that. 

22:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There's also like-, but he got me once with something from the pod. Yeah, of course. 

22:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's gotten me before. I don't care. You know like I'm so used to getting. I spent like years getting roasted on Twitter. You know like I look at this guy who to follow on the right side, the shipper at ship the justice. That guy probably has roasted me more than any human being in the history of the planet. You know, I don't care because I I know he's like just a fucking shitty trader for sports bet, so for points bet and I like, whatever, like why do I care about his? 

23:21 - Zack Phillips (Other)
opinion, but this is, but it's just devolving into like. 

23:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is how it devolves right the the entire situation. It's like, rather than us being able to get along, it's like this dog eat dog like. But this doesn't happen in real life. You know what I'm saying. Like we all get together for for at like a conference, bet, bash, whatever in Vegas, just like for a golf. And like everyone's friends, like I don't get it, man, I don't get it. And like everyone's friends like I don't get it, man, I don't get it. I can't explain the toxicity of the like. And there's more examples and we're not stopping here. All right, go ahead, there's a few more. That really got me Spanky right. Look, I'll call up my friends. I talked to Spanky this week. I love Spanky, he's a great guy. Go up one more, zach. Okay, one guy. Sorry, my vision is really bad on the-. 

24:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I can read this one if you want. So there's a guy here who is tweeting a screenshot from FanDuel Sportsbook that has a Miami Heat that just won the Eastern Conference at plus 950. His bet size was $50. So he won what would have been a profit of around 525 let's call 500 bucks. He won 500 bucks a nickel. 

24:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, spanky would say nickel, um yeah, no, no real bet or whatever. 

24:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Say 500 bucks sorry, I love I will. We'll see that was. That was a good joke, um. So this guy recaps his tweet and he says Heywood Highsmith in the clutch. Checkmark Gabe Vincent, leap. Check Caleb Martin evolution check Bam Adebayo's next step. Check Jimmy Butler's revenge. Check Eric Spolstra still king. Check Never hedged. Didn't need to turn turn that green, so basically just celebrating his bet victory lapping that it won happens every day. 

25:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know this is, this is twitter, so I know you put this on here. 

25:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I did see this one, but what did you want to say about this one? 

25:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
okay. So like here's the response for those listening, uh, for those watching, you see it on screen flexing that you didn't hedge a 50, nine to one bet coupled with six check marks, a crown and a money face emojis. Emoji is as out of touch with reality as it gets. Congrats on your $450 win. Don't spend it all in one place, okay. So now we're now we're at the point of, like, mocking bet sizes essentially as well. Right, like we get it for four, you know, for spanky, that's nothing. 450 win. 

25:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He won, yeah, he won. Like, go up the screen or you can't really see it. Here we're on. Uh, what did he? What did he actually place a wager on? So you would have won 475. If it's plus 950, yeah, 475 profit. 

26:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So go ahead either way. Like the money, like now we're now we're stomping on somebody for like the amount that they bet on a game, which is like I've been there before. 

26:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, honestly, he's tripping him because he's flexed that he didn't hedge the bet that that too. 

26:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But like you can you know I like this one. I'm not gonna lie. There's a way to get this message across. And, by the way, again for the millionth time I'll reiterate this I'm very guilty of doing the same thing. This is like an introspective, like you know. 

26:37
Sometimes you do something for so long and then you see someone else doing the same thing and you're like, holy shit, is that how I look when I'm tweeting this stuff? Because I'll roast somebody and I'll get like a couple hundred likes right and like my following loves that, but like to everyone outside of that, I look like a complete and utter jackass and frankly, I don't wanna make this like episode, like the most like, like the deepest like or whatever. But there's room for just being good people sometimes. And we have no idea what that guy's intention was with his original tweet. I can totally see why spanky would have read that and like immediately blown a gasket and felt the need to respond to this. But sometimes we can just let stuff go or respond in a way of like that's a little bit more human. 

27:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
How is Diggs in this tweet thread again? 

27:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He probably retweeted it man, I don't know, he literally probably retweeted it. 

27:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It is he replied to Diggs' retweeted it. It is he replied to digs his retweet, I guess, because he's he's in it don't I mean some. 

27:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's playmaker dave, don't unit shame spanks. I agree with that, but playmaker david not interpreting for a unit shame. 

27:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
unit shame is if you say haha, you only bet 50 bucks, why didn't you bet that for 50 grand? He's, I think spanky is saying why are you flexing that you didn't hedge? Because that guy saying that he didn't hedge is hilarious. He's saying didn't hedge, didn't need to, basically saying like I didn't hedge for Ouija board. 

28:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But he could have made that exact same point without the final two sentences. So it's a combo Fair, like he's definitely. He could have just put that first paragraph there and got the same point across the congrats on your $450 win. Don't spend it in all in one place as a unit shaming. Fine, all right, what else we got? Okay, so this one in particular caught me. Bomani Jones. 

28:42
I used to work with Bomani Jones, so again, this is like a little bit more personal. But he tweeted this was the heat. The Heat were up three nothing in the series at this point against the Boston Celtics. And he tweeted the Heat are still only a one point favorite. Vegas's models just cannot conceptualize what the Celtics have done this series Gambling Twitter got ahold of this. 

29:08
Now, obviously, this tweet has a lot wrong with it and a lack of understanding of how the market works. This tweet was at 5 35 PM Eastern time on the night of a game. Limits for that game were extremely high. So we know, like me and you know, betting market determined this was the right price, like how the market works, right? So when I was in my early 20s working at the score Hardcore Sports Radio, to be more specific. Bomani Jones got hired at that time and he did a weekly morning show called the Basketball Jones and he did this out of his home in North Carolina. He would come to the score offices maybe two or three times a year. 

29:51
I can only speak very highly of him in terms of who he is as a person, the personal interactions that I had with him, the way that he tweeted or treated people, I should say the way that he tweeted, the way that he tweeted, the way that he treated people. I have the utmost respect for him. Now listen, controversial person. A lot of people will disagree with me. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, right? And I think personal situations like influence how you see a person and view them. So this particular one right here, if this was not Bomani Jones that tweeted this, I probably would have went in hard, just like other people did. I probably would have went in hard just like other people did. What I did do at this exact moment I was cooking a HelloFresh recipe. 

30:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I stopped Negative. 

30:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
EV. I stopped. For me it's positive EV. We can get into the discussion at another point. For me it's positive EV. But I sent this tweet to Bomani through a DM and I said if I respond to this tweet publicly it's going to cause a stir and it's going to look like I'm attacking you. This isn't really the way it works. Betters dictate the market price, not really Vegas. Your point may still be valid, but this is a very large market where the biggest sports books are currently taking a hundred K plus bets, which has determined the price. 

31:04
Now I'm not going to get into. I'm not going to post the entire private conversation because it's private. But his response was this is very interesting. I didn't know that. Tell me more. 

31:13
Essentially, I'm paraphrasing when can I find more about this topic? I explained a little bit more to him and I sent him the Circles Off episode that we did with Chris Bennett, who's the head of risk management for Circa. He's been promoted recently, took Matt Metcalf spot recently as well Link in the description of the YouTube. For sure, you can watch that video. But I said honestly, if you got an hour, watch this, it will change it, told me he appreciated it. He watched it. He sent me back messages about it. I didn't understand this. That's constructive, in my opinion, and again, it's not to pat myself on the back, but like he doesn't know and he thinks he knows and for betters, like you're gonna be like no, it's a fraud, this and that or whatever, but like there's ways to go about things there. That doesn't have to be just pure toxic culture. I like that and candidly I would say, and I and I'm very self-aware, like I said, if this was somebody that I didn't like, if this was spread investor. 

32:16
I obviously would have immediately quote, tweeted this and be like look at this idiot and whatever, and I have to be better about that. But, like, people in general, just have to be better because we've created, like this environment where there are actually a lot of people who can provide a lot in the form of education that people just don't want to listen to because they come off as so abrasive. Think back to the podcast episode we did with Jeff Benson and JJ JJ. Think back to that, what JJ endured endured for two weeks leading up to that, and why we had, why we eventually did the podcast right now I guess it's just a more of a toxic marketplace in this industry. 

33:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It is, but is it not like that? 

33:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
for every industry I brought some multiple, it's the same shit I, I, I don't know and I can't say specifically, but like I've been involved in other sector sectors of twitter over over time, like crypto twitter, yeah, you still have, like you know, a lot of ignorant people. You have a lot of the exact same like what was that list I gave before? Right like you have targeting vulnerable individuals, false expertise, lack of accountability like that exists in all the other spaces, as well as does the toxic behavior, but that doesn't make it right and like it's not. It's it's fun and nice to like just dunk on people non-stop, but it creates just like this culture of like everybody hating one another for like no reason. It's, it's the dumbest, it's actually like it's actually so dumb. 

33:55
We all share like a common interest, so many of us win together. We all know that the other people are winning bettors, but it's just like correcting people here, correcting people there. You're an idiot, you're in this. You know Pisky tweets something from the Banfield group account. That's like a basically straight out of a fortune cookie, which is just like advice on betting, which would probably really resonate with 99% of people that don't know betting, but then he's just like destroyed, dragged through. You know what I'm? 

34:25 - Zack Phillips (Other)
getting at Spanky dragged the Betstamp account. 

34:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah. 

34:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
BetStamp Eric. Betstamp Eric, who we gotta have on the pod one day, by the way. We should really do an episode with him. 

34:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's gonna listen to this for sure. When you listen to this, shoot a message, rob, zach and I, and we'll set it up. But I mean listen, okay, just message him now, then sure. 

34:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
At one point. Yeah, why does he have to shoot us a message? 

34:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Because I just want to check if he's listening. If he's listening, he listens. 

34:52 - Zack Phillips (Other)
every week he messages me every single week. 

34:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's probably the first listener every week. Okay, so let's see from time of release to when he messages you and lease to when he lists to when he messages you, and let's place and take a wager right now, okay. So when is this going to come out? What time this is coming out? 

35:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
on thursday, the 8th of june what time? 

35:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
at 4 pm eastern. 4 pm eastern. So assuming we get it live at 4 pm eastern this part of the podcast will be approximately 38 minutes okay, so then we'll set this at what do we want? What do we want to set? 

35:21 - Zack Phillips (Other)
he might listen to, to this on expedited speed, it's true. 

35:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But he's not going to listen right at 4. 

35:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
4.45 is a good over. 

35:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, that's to see if he listens it right when it comes out. That's going to be crazy. 

35:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, listen. Last week, with Kevin Davis, I implored people to turn their notifications on which, by the way, if you haven't yet, if you haven't yet, if you, you so money said it with me on edge work last week when we recorded, because he listened to that episode as well. Instead of he wants you to smash the mouse so hard that it not only breaks the mouse but also breaks your desk. He wants it to be such a hard smash hammers on that notification. 

36:01
Oh, can you show the new hammer to the? This is the one we brought in last week, which is a big fan of we're building a little uh hammer wall here. 

36:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So this is it's not quite the welding and chipper hammer, but this thing can do some serious damage. 

36:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This one will mess you up because it's actually so light. That thing is like you can get a lot of hits in before someone else can. So to see the hammer, okay, I over to the. 

36:19 - Zack Phillips (Other)
YouTube channel and subscribe If you guys are doing 45, you'll take over on 445? 

36:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Guaranteed? Okay, here's the thing. I will not influence this. 

36:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So no one can message him. We leave it in this room right now. This is all live on the air. He's gonna be currently listening to this as well. He's gonna be have to message. All right, I would easily take over 445. That's ridiculous. 

36:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think he literally will listen at 4 o'clock right on the nose. 

36:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay, let's play this a quick way. He's the type of guy I'll give you plus 150 for 445 under. 

36:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, no, sorry, I'm getting plus 150 on the under. 

37:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, all right, yeah. What do you want to? What would we we'll? 

37:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
add it to the sheet, we'll figure out. It'll be for a lunch. There's some. 

37:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There's some funds that you still owe me. By the way, yeah, no, I know, I know, I know I do. And also some good news is I found a little ball for the roulette wheel so we're back in action for today. You think you want more spins. Oh, buddy, I'm gonna win all that cash back. 

37:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's yeah, I don't think that's the way it typically works, but yeah, we've got. We're off the rails big time. There was actually, in hindsight, no point to this episode other than I had to share express these feelings. So, if I can suggest one thing, even for like, there's going to be a lot of people. I'm going to get roasted for this. Whichever I don. For like, there's going to be a lot of people I'm going to get roasted for this. Whichever, I don't care, there's going to be a segment of the population that doesn't like me. That will just be like oh, what's Rob doing? And this is like trying to connect all these betters. It's like we all share common goals. Obviously, it's a competitive environment. We're competing against one another on a lot of stuff as well, but like it's time to tone it back a bit. I think. Like it's gotten to the point where it's actually like I can't even maybe this is my own personal interest at Hardy like I can't even go on Twitter anymore without just seeing something every single day. Like every single day. 

38:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So why don't we issue a quick challenge? So what Rob did here with Bomani Jones, basically saying if you see something that someone tweeted that's wrong, instead of bashing him on Twitter, shoot him a DM. See what they say. See if you can teach him. If they double down, bash him. 

38:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Honestly if they double down. Listen, you can only do so much to try to help someone. I'm joking around. I'm joking around, but think about it at the think about it from the BetStamp office perspective, right? Zach got hired the same time as very similar to the time of Jacob, who appeared in studio for one of our episodes. Josh, who appeared in studio for one of our episodes. Luke, who appeared in studio for one of our episodes. Josh, who appeared in studio for one of our episodes. Luke, who appeared in studio for one of our episodes. Lay it with Luke and like I'm not here to bash or whatever, but Zach was betting in a certain way where we started to help him along and he started to take notice and he started to do things and now he has evolved into a legitimate winning bettor and now he originates lacrosse and then he's actually one of the best he's got picked up by. 

39:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's actually got picked up by rufus's group now and he's originating lacrosse all from this podcast yeah that. 

39:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But as soon as he starts posting his lacrosse picks on twitter, someone's gonna go and just shit on him and be like oh, buddy, you're ruining the market forever. Like you're doing this, you're doing that, like just like the negative culture is going to come in. But to the larger point Luke never listened to a word. We said Like he just kind of just doubled down on that path and it just gets to a point where you're like okay, like I'm done helping, like I've said, are hitting 75%, that's, I think, shooting 75%, I think that's pretty good, but Josh is a questionable Josh. 

40:05
well, josh is, you know. He got there like slowly over time. 

40:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't know. I haven't taken a look at his bet stamp in a bit. 

40:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's say he was using that beta tool we had for a little bit for his own. 

40:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Helping his own bets. 

40:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, he kind of knew what was going on, but the same thing is going to happen out there. You know, like I think back to the argument I had with Darren Revell it was all about the probability of two ties happening in an NFL season. Where I explained the math to him, I said you know, this is wrong. What you posted is not correct. This would mean that the probability of a tie happening in one game is this, which is obviously not right. He doubled down on. 

40:48
Well, I asked the sports book director in Vegas and this, this is where I got the number from. I said, okay, I get that. You asked them. I'm, you know, giving you the probabilities and whatever. And then he doubled down again and then I called him an idiot and that was it. And I could have done without the end and just moved on because there's really no need for that is a reality. You can do what you can to try to legitimately help people, let them get them to learn, and then you can't. Then you just get to a point where you're like, okay, this person doesn't want to, that's fine, but it doesn't need to be like the toxicity doesn't have to be through the roof. 

41:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I agree. If quick plug, if you guys are looking for sports books, we say it every week now it's wwwbetstampapp slash circles off, no matter what region you're in, no matter where you are, you wwwbetstampapp slash circles off. No matter what region you're in, no matter where you are, you can find the best sports books, best odds promotions, everything like that. Check out the link in the description Sign up really helps. 

41:48 - Zack Phillips (Other)
the show QR code on the screen right now. 

41:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
QR code on the screen right now Wow, look at this, look at the tech. We got in-house now we were watching on like a 14-inch monitor and we there you go. 

41:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So everyone it does help support the show, keeps it free, keeps us obviously producing motivated. Continue to produce amazing content. We've got a couple of really good ideas coming for future shows and some banger guests coming in the future as well. So we are fired up about Circles. Off Channel is bumping. It's at an all-time high and once again. 

42:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a plea with you out there. I know a lot of you did this last week, but some of you might've listened and you were driving in the car or forgot about it. But reach out to somebody who hasn't consumed circles off yet in any capacity. Give them your favorite episode, say you gotta watch this, try to turn them into a listener and a follower. Obviously, we love to do this. We really do. We spend a lot of time over the course of the week thinking of ideas, what would make the show interesting, how to help people out, but obviously our ask of you is to help us grow as best as possible. There's nothing more infuriating to me than going and seeing YouTube channels and sports betting that have like 100k subscribers with, candidly, people that are misleading and presenting false information, false expertise, to the public. So help us grow, help people find us, and do that by leveraging your own personal networks if possible. 

43:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Two other things. Number one, let us know in the comments on Twitter DMs anywhere, If we were considering getting some circles off merch hoodies, caps, shirts, we might, might get a cool design. If anyone's interested, let us know. And then secondary, which is again a big one, let us know. For future guests, we are always taking feedback for the show, right? So sometimes Rob and I will have on pro bettors who might be a little bit more known. Sometimes I'm on sportsbook directors, things like that. What we've been getting a lot of requests for recently is like people who might not be as known, smaller, betters people are just starting underground guys who maybe have to go under aliases. Let us know what you want. If you have a good guest suggestion, send it in. Or if you want to just suggest what types of interview styles are your favorite or what other topics you want rob and I to cover, it really appreciate it if you can last thing. 

44:03 - Zack Phillips (Other)
We didn't do it at the beginning. 

44:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Episode 105 wow, glad you reminded me, because people would have got. 

44:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There are good fives in sports, by the way so there's actually like one good number five per sport, which is crazy. No, there's more than that no, but I'm saying like there's like one big one in each sport. 

44:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, by the way, like we could probably like branch out into some other stuff, as like people every now and then post. Or like sent me a twitter dms. Or like oh, you forgot about this guy who wore like number five and what we cover the major sports, like you know. I don't know like whoever's in the indie car number five. 

44:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Like I'm not going to mention him on every. I only know one nascar guy, jimmy johnson. Jimmy johnson was a was a banger. 

44:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So Kevin Harvick was a big guy for me. You won me a lot of money in DFS. 

44:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Number five. We have NHL defenseman Norris Trophy multi-time winner, nick Lidstrom. Nicholas Lidstrom In the Stanley Cup. Right now we have Aaron Ekblad, number five on the Panthers Former, first overall and OHL exceptional status. One of only three players. How do you get ohl exceptional status? You apply, you apply and if you're younger they give you an extra year. It's like him, mcdavid and uh, rob shrimp. 

45:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They should do that with elon should do that with twitter exceptional status. 

45:15 - Zack Phillips (Other)
No, no, no, there's more now I'm pretty sure taveras was one as well exceptional status. 

45:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't think he was I gave bad trivia on the show last week. I got roasted for it. What trivia. Pat Quinn did not end. 

45:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Bobby Orr's career. Sean Day, sean Day, come on, yeah, he did. 

45:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Pat Quinn like he destroyed Bobby Orr on a hit, but it didn't end his career. 

45:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It didn't, joey Di Maggio. 

45:39 - Zack Phillips (Other)
There you go, dude John Tavares. 

45:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Aaron Ackblad Nick. 

45:43 - Zack Phillips (Other)
David Sean Day. 

45:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Shane Wright. These are just resources. Joe Valano Wow, wow, and look where he is now. 

45:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Just more, and more false information right here on Circles. 

45:51 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Off and look where Joe Valano is now Got that, got suspended for stomping on a guy's leg in the World Championships? Yeah, that was you said. 

45:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Joe DiMaggio, jolton Joe. 

46:00 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, boys, you want to get. 

46:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
KG. Albert Pujols was five Also, you know who is like a very I'll call him underrated. Like when I say him people will be like, oh, but like people don't really remember him. But like when you're talking about the best players in the late 90s, early 2000s Jeff Bagwell. 

46:25 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Jeff Bag. Number five jeff bagwell, very underrated ball player, I would say. I got two formula one drivers who uh, donned the number five. 

46:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're actually legendary. Okay, michael schumacher, my, my boy. Honestly, I don't think I ever cried so hard watching a documentary as I did, schumacher and poor guy. 

46:39 - Zack Phillips (Other)
This one says sebastian vettel. Yeah, vettel did in honor of Schumacher, poor guy man. 

46:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This one says Sebastian Vettel. Yeah, vettel did In honor of Schumacher. Yeah, because he was his idol growing up. Yeah, there you go. Donovan McNabb blowing chunks in the huddle, wearing number five in the Super Bowl. Joe Flacco, who built a career off of defensive pass interference. There's lots of good number fives. 

47:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Who's the? 

47:03 - Zack Phillips (Other)
number five that's retired to the Maple Leafs. I was trying to think of who wore number five on the Leafs. 

47:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was thinking of. 

47:07 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Jason Blake, but he wore 55. 

47:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I actually have a. 

47:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So the Leafs have a retired number five I'm just trying to think who it is. No, we missed him last week. Five is Bill Barocco. Bill Barocco no, we missed half day day. 

47:23 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Okay, we got to tell the story now if people don't know about bill barocco that's the reason that the leafs haven't won the uh cup since 67 tragically hip did a song about bill barocco disappeared so half day if you guys want to know the biggest legend, one of the biggest legends in sports history, if you do, you know, you know half day, half day. 

47:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know half day day. Zach, number four for the leaves, an absolute leaves legend, born in 1901 in owens sound, ontario. Okay, ready for this guy's story? 

47:55
played in the oha played in the oha yeah, as a teenager joined. Joined the University of Toronto. Played as a left winger. In 1927, the St Pats were purchased by Con Smythe and they were renamed to the Toronto Maple Leafs. So he was the inaugural Toronto Maple Leafs player Hapday, the first ever captain in Leafs. History became okay, whatever, keep going. So he plays whatever. Him and King Clancy are the top defensive pairing in the NHL. They win a bunch of Stanley Cups. All good works, great. Okay, ready for what happens next? He takes a hiatus from playing for two years and becomes the head official in the NHL. He's the head referee in the NHL. 

48:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He took a sabbatical and he just joined the ref. He was top defenseman. 

48:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He would have won the Norris if James Norris had probably even been playing at that time, which he wasn't. Then then gets even better Guy for the next couple years, goes on to work as the head coach of the leafs, returns to the leafs as coach. 

49:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, you know what this guy sounds like. Sorry to interrupt you, but he's like the guy that was playing and blamed everybody else, right, he's like god damn it, these. Right, I'll show these guys how to ref a game. And then like, oh, these coaches, they don't know what they're. I'll show these guys how to coach a game. 

49:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's what the type of guy he takes a hiatus from his nh, his 11 year tenure as captain to work as a referee for two years before then joining the leafs as head coach and leading the team to five cups in 10 seasons unbelievable. Unbelievable winning his head coach in history until someone passed him now. But but he's second. And then after that, in 1950, conn Smythe promoted Habdada assistant general manager, gets his seventh cup as the assistant GM and then he goes president of hockey operations and general manager. What an absolute legend. The guy straight up was every position, couldn't. He worked this way up, he did every position, including an official in the league clarence. 

50:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Henry day, is that his name, later known as hap day. I like hap day. You can make you know what you know it's all like. I think about this a lot. I'm obviously not playing pro sports in my mid-30s or never was close to playing pro sports. But half day you can make a pretty banger signature out of rob robert pizzola. It's hard to make a, I guess, with the, with the zeds or the z's. You can do something cool with those, but it doesn't work when I was playing even more. 

50:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I didn't even know this. 

50:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He was a successful business owner after do you think you have a good signature or no? Like a good, it's okay, not the best, not the worst. Yeah, we're not going to put our signatures out in public because I don't want somebody to steal my identity, but it would be nice to have a vote on the signature. 

50:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, I'm glad I was able to spread some knowledge and at least share the story of Hap. 

50:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Day. 

50:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This is all real too, by the way. Not fake with rob's false, my false information which I've been told my whole life by everybody. You are fake news. No, hap day was an absolute maple leafs legend. Um, he passed away, probably like 30, 40 years ago, but 1990 he passed away at the age of 89. 

51:12
So there you go. Hap day leafs legend. We missed him last week. Sorry about that, hap, but I'm glad we can get get the shout out in. I, I had it in when we were back then. I'm like, oh, when hap, when half day comes, I got to tell this story on your number four. You missed it. I thought he was honestly number six. Screw the pooch part. Actually I shouldn't say that Pete will be after us. All right, I think we're done here. I think we're done. We'll see everybody, you.