00:00 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
You know a lot of people that talk about these things that are out there. There's a lot of different the nerds of the world, the ones that were picked last for kickball, the ones that were hung up on their locker by their frigging underwears they're the guys that now have a little bit of you know this thing about sports betting. Hey gee, I can come on and I can talk about sports betting and ha ha ha, I got all you guys back that did this stuff to me. Come on, let's go. You think I'm gonna? 

00:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
come on here and put one of the one of the aussies in the elite tier. I vote for rob of 25 000 I. I wouldn't vote for you. 

00:31 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I can basically just cheat and get the same bad stuff they're getting. And it's weird because you can also pay your bills at the same place where you bet. 

00:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean you're, you're a short guy, what? 

00:45 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
this guy talks a lot of trash. He's talked a lot of trash about me, Rob, a lot of people in the community, but he's refusing to show his face. 

00:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Coding yourself is a pretty good NFL gambler. I thought you were an idiot. Take testing, testing. I'm a cuck. One, two, three, four Aussies. 

00:59 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Going head-to-head with the Aussies. That's what I drew before and I said get him Kirk, and they call me a mean-spirited name. I don't hang out with them. 

01:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
The Toronto Maple Leafs at 14-1 are staring me dead in the face. 

01:11 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I'm already getting you know a lot of early. 

01:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
This could be the best Circles Off episode that's ever been done. Welcome to Circles Off episode number 179 right here, part of the Hammer Betting Network and presented by Pinnacle Sportsbook. I'm Rob Pizzola solo in studio today. Johnny will be back next week. We've been going through some changes here over at the Circles Off channel. Obviously, we have Circle Back now, which you can tune into every Tuesday morning. We didn't have an episode last week, but we're going to fire out two next week. Set notifications here on Circles Off. You're going to get a Monday episode and a Thursday episode next week. Wait, we're going Thursday this one, this one's Thursday, and then Monday, yeah, yeah, I'm just making sure. No. Monday and Thursday next week, yeah, and then next week, yeah. So you're going to get three in a row for people. 

02:02 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Yeah, so it's triple episode. Yeah, pretty much Today, thursday. 

02:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Monday Thursday to make it explicitly clear for what's going on. So make sure you're subbed here on Circles Off Set bell notifications. If you're listening in audio form, you can get that as well. Make sure you rate and review five stars Today. I'm thrilled to welcome a true legend in the sports betting world. He's known on Twitter at Crack Wins. He's built a reputation as one of the most respected sports bettors in the industry. He's the co-host of the Wise Cracks podcast. You can check that out on Crack Wins YouTube. He shares insider knowledge, decades of experience as well in the sports betting space. He's seen it all. He's got plenty to share, hopefully with us on the evolving landscape of sports betting. Bill Krackenberger joins us here on Circles Off Bill, how are things? 

02:50 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Hey, good Thanks for having me on, Rob. Yeah, it's been a long time. You were on my podcast a couple of years ago with John and I and we just never got around to having a show together here. I'm looking forward to it. Right before I came on, I was telling you that I've been watching your show for two months. I'm sorry I haven't commented on it, but it's on in the background. There's only about four or five shows I can get to a week. I like you and the guys in there. I think it's fun. 

03:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, I do appreciate that. You did candidly say that to me off air as well here, so it's not just blowing smoke up my ass on screen here. 

03:25 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Yes, no, I'm not. I don't. I don't even, to be real blunt, I don't even get. Why shows like ours? Because mine too, I I teach people a lot of things. 

03:36
I bring randy mckay on great in the nfl winning player limited like myself, I'm like you in many sports I bring him on, him on in many weeks. It's funny. Randy came on last week and he was like 3-0. And he's had a winning record. Of course, this season and crickets, nobody says anything. But he lost two out of three, like three weeks ago. 

03:58
Two people said something in the chat Like it's sick. I think people are really sick. They don't even realize they win because they put, they put their own methods of of um demise in these type of bets. They'll get three plays and they'll parlay a three-team parlay. I say yeah, yeah, he lost. Meanwhile he won two out of three but he lost in their minds. And then they mix their own stuff. And it's the human brain uh, I say it on on, on visa all the time it's the human condition. What we do, we want to be patted on the back a little bit too for us giving out plays too, meaning Joe, public being involved, me personally, I don't care who gives me the play. I don't care who tells me. If someone is a winning bettor that I know gives me information, I'll be happy to learn from him and bet what he says. Sorry, I'm going off on tangents. You're going to see me doing that during the the show too. 

04:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Um, not to be animated, I just guess I am at it, yeah yeah, and just to add to that as well, I think there's an accountability standpoint that is missed with the new age of bettors as well. Right, like if. If somebody gave me bets, bill, uh, on the NFL, and I decided to play them myself, I'm clicking the buttons to play those games, I'm sending out those bets. I'm accountable at this point and I know that as a better. But it seems like the new age of betters they really want to hold anyone accountable except for themselves. It's like people watch the content and be like oh, thanks for the loser. It's like well, you chose to bet it, right, right, that's like well, you chose to bet it, right, right. 

05:26 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
That's exactly it. Thanks for the loser. That's why it's tough to give out picks on shows. You know, during football season I'm doing 13 shows a week. I do about four Fox hits, which is on nationwide radio. I do my nationwide show. It's hard to give out picks. They judge you by your picks and you know I tell them I'm going to lose 43 out of 100 bets, maybe even 45. But those five, six, seven bets out of every hundred that I have the advantage on, I'll tell you what I'm going to make a lot of money because I put a lot of volume on them. 

05:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep, absolutely, bill. We like to start off the top with getting the background of the guest. Now you have a lot that you can share, a ton of experience in the space. We were talking a little bit off air as well and I actually learned some stuff about you. I didn't even know about you, but just in a clean, concise way here how did you first get involved in sports betting? What drew you to it initially? 

06:17 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Well, the area I grew up in my mom God bless her heart and soul, being Italian from New York, from the Bronx and we had these parlay cards when we were kids. They were the first sports betting I ever knew about. You tear off the edge and you go four for four. You get $10 for every dollar. That was my first actual bet, but I was nine years old. Eight or nine years old, I was just a kid, you know. Know, we used to come down every weekend. 

06:46
Uh, I used to go and and work on the boardwalk on the jersey shore, a little blue collar, tough irish catholic jewish town, kingsburg, new jersey, only a mile big. There's only a mile, literally square, but there was 30 bars. I mean, that's how it was a little party boardwalk, beach town. But that boardwalk they had games of chance. I worked in my aunt and uncle's pizza place which, by the way, still there, 55, 57 years, has been on the boardwalk in Kingsburg pizza Villa, um. But I worked there and I was only nine years old, 10 years old, 11. I worked there for like five years really, and when that closed at night, the games of chance became gambling games. They had a keno game, they had a horse race game. Uh, we had wheels that became cash wheels at night. So in other words, um, the wheels that you can win candy, toys, stuffed animals, mirrors and statues they became gambling wheels. So we were a gambling town. Then, at nighttime, we played a game. Many of you might not know this game, but we played it almost every single night on the weekends, always because that's when people got paid. Friday, saturday night was a big, big money nights ac ducey, where the deuce is the lowest card, ace is the highest card. You try to guess the card in the middle ties lose and you can guess how much money you want to put in the pot. So that was really my first. 

08:03
I'm only a little kid now, just to let you know, I I was a loser, I was a kid, I was, I was a losing kid gambler and I was known as being a gambler, but I always worked. I worked in the winter time when the pizza business closed in the boardwalk. The arcades were open year round. I worked in bevin wally's arcade. Uh, their grant, their grandchildren run those arcades. Now there's not so much money, they're all multi-millionaires. So they have tons of arcades up and down in all of new jersey. Um, I worked in those arcades. I worked in the hot dog stand, I worked in the french fry stand. I worked so many jobs, but the jobs I've learned, the original jobs, had to deal with customers at that pizza stand, that pizza business. That helped me later on in life because then I worked the games of chance and the games of kill the cats, the basketball stand, the darts stand. 

08:51
There was a big leader at the time. I wish I knew the country. It was Kil Qaddafi. Muammar Qaddafi was a terrible, terrible leader and he was the bad guy. We had a Kil Qaddafi darts stand in the bad guy. So we had a kill-Qaddafi-Dart stance in the boardwalk. You would try to you know kill Qaddafi and you'd get. We had like, bon Jovi was the big band back then. You had Bon Jovi tickets, front row, bon Jovi tickets if you get two in the center, like those are the type of things I learned by dealing with people and but yet I'm embarrassed to say, rob, I used to blow my money because my dad took me. Now I'm not blaming my dad, he didn't know anything. 

09:28
My father was a good, old-fashioned country person from the Ohio River, hardworking, blue-collar, but he met the Italians. They corrupted him. Let me just tell you it is what it is. My dad was in the Navy, by the way. You know, I always salute my service people. Thank you for your service, always, all the time, and every time I see them, especially the veterans of the wars, I always salute them and God bless them. They help us, they protect us. So anyone that doesn't stand for the flag, I usually go after them. I went after somebody today a big name in the media for not saluting people, especially on a day like today. Somebody today, a big name in the media for not saluting people, especially on a day like today. 

10:07
So anyway, um, my dad meets my mom. He winds up moving to new jersey and he got corrupted with the gambling bug from my mother's uncles and stepbrothers and and, uh, you know, mama's racetrack was right there. We lived, we lived 10 minutes for maybe 20 minutes. Um, my dad took me and I hit my first two2 exact. I'll never forget. I even know the horses. How crazy is that? Miss Self Tinsley's dream. Two bucks paid $400. I was with my dad, I won that and I was just so excited. My dad and I split the money. I put a dollar up, he put a dollar up and, yeah, my dad went to the racetrack a lot. So what would happen was my dad would work nine to five, a regular job and what would I do? 

10:48
Being a little knock around kid, my little wise guy buddies, at 10, 12, not 10, probably 12, 13 years old, we used to take the bus from my little board walk town to Long Branch, new Jersey, or Asbury Park and then we used to take that bus over to Monmouth Park. So we were taking buses to go to the racetrack. So I would blow the money and I was making good money because I used to get a percentage of what I used to sell on the boardwalk, what I used to make in the stand. I would get a percentage of those stands and I was making good money. I was making like $200, $300 a night, sometimes on the weekends. Might not sound like a lot of money now, but back in 1984, it was a lot of money so and I used to blow it, gambling. I used to blow it. 

11:27
But one person that changed my life back then was my cousin Anthony. My cousin Anthony went to Fordham very genius, very smart guy, very wealthy guy now. Actually he went for a blackjack card counting lesson somewhere in North Jersey. I wish I knew the name of that school. It was a blackjack card counting school in north jersey. I wish I knew the name of that school. It was a blackjack card counting school. When he was done with that, you know, he was older than me so I looked up to him. He's his mom and dad owned that pizza stand. He was my cousin. 

11:53
He, anthony, showed me card counting and the way we used to play, you know, ac, ducie and stuff, just keeping track of aces, keeping track of uses, also keeping track of the aces in blackjack. You used to deal blackjack head to head, down to the bottom. There was no cut card. So anthony showed me a lot of things there just keep, and I'm young, I'm like literally 12, 13, 14 years old. 

12:16
I learned so many things from anthony and that was my first real advantage betting, even baseball. I remember anthony used to always tell me about being on the bookmaker's side. He always wanted to be on the bookmaker's side. So when they gave you lines, you know you bet on all local guys. There was no legalized sports betting then, right um in jersey, so you would bet the opposite sides. Keep them on their toes because they'd always make the yankees or the mets or the new york teams. They make them a little bit higher, you know. 

12:44
So that was my real first start into advantage gambling. But I still had no management at all. I would blow everything and on something else you win it on something advantage and blow it somewhere else. And I always knew about advantage gambling. I knew about the advantage, blackjack and getting thrown out of Tropicana at a very young age Tropicana, atlantic City but I never fully used it into my life. Because I'm going to tell you, you probably interviewed a lot of people, met a lot of people and met a lot of pros in this world that are professional sports betting, guys that actually make a living betting sports. Like myself You're probably never going to meet one that worked more blue collar jobs than me. I was in every single thing, from detailing cars to selling cemetery plots, to working in, you know, literally restaurants and major theater show. I mean, I did so many things radio sales, I did so many things until I got a call from a guy, believe it or not, was in jail called me up and, uh, when he was arrested I went and seen him. 

13:48
I put commissary in his account. It's commissary like 20 bucks or something. So he called me one day. He was, he was in there, by the way, he was in for bookmaking, yeah, imagine, in for bookmaking. And so he calls me up because there's something going on down in atlantic city. It's at the old golden Nugget. It could be Bally's Grand or this is how people are related to the Hilton in Atlantic City. He said is something going on in the blackjack machine there? I heard it from a guy that just came in here. They were making money at this blackjack machine yesterday. He said it should be there today. I don't know. I really don't know too much about it. I didn't want to be too nosy, rob. It's unbelievable. That machine changed my life. It's unbelievable. I go to Atlantic City, drive two hours down south, just so happens. 12 machines around 1 o'clock in the morning. The one machine, they were all taken. The end machine there was an older man got up. 

14:41
It's like God told him to get up, and I sat in that machine next to the guy that changed my life About six foot six, his name is Frank. He's still around the Atlantic City to this day. He was working for Resorts International Casino. He was the head of the card counting team Internally. They were there to prevent the casino from losing money by card counters. They would back them off Legally not allowed to throw people out counters. They would back them off legally not allowed to throw people out. But you could back them off. You could say, listen, your game's too strong for us. They cut the deck, they shuffle the deck, whatever it may be. So he was the charge. 

15:15
So now he's sitting next to me, though, and you know five minutes comes in and he says, hey, um, can I sell you some dollar tokens? This is before there was tickets in and out. By the way, there was no tickets, right, this was coins, coins. Can we sell you some tokens? I said sure, and there were 20 for a roll of dollars. So I gave him 40 bucks. He goes, and now I still don't know why. I'm buying the token, I'm putting them in and I say, by the way, why am I putting the coins in compared to putting the bill in, because it did take bills. We want to keep the hoppers, which were bags of coins that were underneath every machine. You want to keep the hoppers filled with coins so you wouldn't do hand pays. So they knew what was going on. So they didn't know what was going on. Meanwhile, bill Kracenberger didn't know what was going on. So I'm just listening to this guy next to me. So this guy next to me, so I said, oh, yeah, of course, yeah, let's put the dollar tokens in now. I'm trying to watch him out of the left side of my eye, I'm watching to see what he's doing and I realized, on these particular blackjack machines which were, by the way, they were only a dollar to bet a hand. You think, oh, a dollar a hand. Why would they know anything like? Well, if anyone knows blackjack, there's a surrender feature on a blackjack machine, right on this machine. 

16:23
Back then there was surrender in casinos. You know casinos still have surrender. So for people that don't know, surrender means you want to surrender your hand and give up 50% of your bet. So if you bet $10 and you have a 16 versus 10 and you don't like the hand, just say surrender, give $5 back to you and $5 to the house, the hand's over. You play the next hand Of $5 back to you and $5 to the house hands over, you play the next hand. Of course you should never surrender, just playing head-to-head on the level you shouldn't surrender. That's why, obviously, if the casino is letting you do it, it's usually in their favor. But this machine was giving you the entire dollar back. You didn't like your game. So now you're playing a dollar a hand. 

17:04
But if you're dealt anything 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, you're going to surrender almost any one of them. Really you should, but I understand, sometimes if it's versus six or a five or a bust card, you shouldn't. But let's just say you're going to surrender. So now you're surrendering. Most of the time You're surrendering 18 versus 10 even because 18 versus 10 is a losing hand long term. So if you're dealt 19 or 20, of course 21, uh, you're not lower cards to try to make a bigger hand, you're not. Um, but that machine I had a couple grand in the bank. I remember went down to ac with like 500 bucks. Um, I, six times my, I'm sorry, I 12 times my bankroll that night, literally, uh, 12x. By the time the morning came I. I made six grand. Um, it was an amazing thing. I called out, called out of work the next two days. But more importantly than the six grand was the knowledge from the guy next to me saying to me you don't happen to bet sports, do you? 

17:59
that's the way you talk to, and um, I was like well, I mean, mean I bet, yeah, I bet a little bit. He goes and do you live here? I said, yeah, I live up in north jersey. I live by new york. I said, um, from new york originally, my family and everything. So he said, well, you know, there's a lot of things that are going on in the industry right now. You could make a lot of money. He says because of the bookmakers in philadelphia, or we skew the lines towards the philly lines, new york, new york lines, and there's these new things offshore, um, that these new sports books are coming out. And there was, there was like ricks, there was english sports betting, there was. There was a couple that was in jamaica. Um, a guy wanted to screw me at the end, but I did make some money betting them though. English sports betting, dennis attaya was his name, english sports betting yeah, he was from Pennsylvania and he was in. I'm trying to think what. 

18:52
There was three big ones at the beginning. There was another one too. There was three at the beginning. However, they all give you bonuses. So when you sent them, like I did 500 bucks each they doubled my deposits. So that's what I literally sent 502 books. I had a thousand and a thousand. I've never looked back. I really it was unbelievable. This is before. This is right at the start, a little bit before the internet. So you just call for lines and there was. 

19:17
I'll be real blunt, most people don't know this about me, rob. My life was middling and scalping back then. Yeah, I middled and scalped a bankroll literally and I got to use Frank's money. Frank was already a millionaire at the time. I don't want to embarrass him now, but he's a multi-multi-millionaire now. But Frank was already a millionaire at the time. Even though he didn't have a million dollars in the sports betting book, he did have tons of money that he could put into sports books from a checking account. And, unbelievably, after that day, frank and I became partners for the next 10 years, 10 years of partnership, making money through frank frank's bankroll. 

19:56
In the beginning, because I didn't have that. I'd be scared to even send it anywhere. But the bonuses and and the way it was back then, oh god, it was like when the sports books first came to the united states. Right, the draft kings and fan duels of the world. People don't know this either, rob. Draft kings and fan duel. They have these hosts. They have them now? Yeah, but not to the level where they had them in the beginning. At the beginning, they hired casinos they all casino employees host and director of marketing's player development. So what do they know? They know, oh, we have to buy business. We have to buy business, yeah. So automatically they were pursuing guys like phil krackenberger, that's right, uh, but they were letting me put up like 50 000 and they were giving me 25 000,000 bonuses, not free bets, $25,000 bonuses. I think. Fanduel gave me about $75,000 to play with in the beginning before they backed me off, but you know what it was. So, rob, I would bet futures. I put up $50,000, get $25,000. I bet the whole $75,000 on futures. 

21:04
And then what would happen? The host would actually say oh, you have nothing left in your account. It's all pending. You want to do that again? Literally sure, absolutely do it again. I can't even tell you how much money in bonuses. I got tax forms in the mail from those books the previous years because obviously I have to pay taxes on wins. But that's true story back in the 90s too. The 90s was unbelievable. There was a company called Neteller. 

21:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I remember Neteller. 

21:33 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Yep, they might even still be out. I don't know. We don't use it anymore, but there was a company called Neteller that was legal in the United States, which I don't think they are legal anymore, but're different now because I know that we had to get our money out of net teller and I was scared I had 90 grand in that fellow when they folded, when the government came after them and I thought I wasn't getting that money. It took a while six months or something but, um, it would be this simple you push a button on that teller, send 10 000 to bet jamaica. This is a real place. By the way, bet jamaica, which was owned by olympic Olympic. Olympic bought this place called Bet Jamaica. They opened up this place. It was from Curacao, it was a little book that they owned. They bought that book. They bought three books. Every single time they bought a sports book, they would give you a bonus of the $10,000. They'd match it. So I'd press a button on NetTeller, literally, and make $10,000 cash. That's a true, true story. It happened three times with books that olympic bought. 

22:28
This is, you know, over 20 years ago, but um, it was. It was a great, great time. Uh, it's actually more, maybe even 25 years ago now. It was a great time for bonuses in the offshore world and that was a real reason why we made a lot of money, because we were middle end scalping, but I was using Frank's bankroll at the time. I remember we came out here to Vegas. The Stratus for a Tower just opened. So whatever year they opened maybe 97 or so, whatever year they opened, you see, back then guys, 25, 26, 27 years ago, there was many different sports books. The Stratus for a Tower had their own sports book. Many different sports books. The Stratus for Tower had their own sports book. Every single casino Caesars every single casino had their own sports books before all these books were taken over by Caesars, mgm, william Hill you know the brand. This was an unbelievable time in my life for middling and scalping the famous four corners there. Listen, I'm not reinventing the wheel here. This was done way before me. I came into it late actually, but maybe not so because I had that offshore world where a lot of these guys didn't have those worlds. 

23:34
I was playing with places in Australia called Canterbury Downs, playing with a place called Canbet, remember, because they had 105 juice. A lot of these places had great juice too. They had 105 juice. They had Fridays move a half a point free. I had these places. I had so many places that would let you do things on Fridays no juice Fridays. I had the half a point place, though it was called Sports Market, ace's Gold Game Day and Curacao Sports Market. 

24:02
There was was three of them. I would just literally arbitrage against each other. You can move from three to three and a half for nothing. So if it's plus three plus three and a half, you get. By the way, if you want to have a second account and go from minus three to two and a half, you could do that too. Now that that's a profitable bet. 

24:19
Minus two and a half, plus three and a half, yep, and you know that's probably what's probably part of their demise. Part of their demise was probably that. But I really know something a lot of people don't know what's part of their demise. The guys that own pinnacle literally put those guys out of business. The guy's name is charles thurwanger out of texas. I don't mind throwing these guys under the bus. They screwed me out of like 45 grand, um. Yeah, so they, they, um. But but the pininnacle guys kind of put them out of business and they used a number around the Super Bowl that they shouldn't have used and unfortunately it landed and that may have put them out of business. So again going off on all different ways here. 

24:55
You asked me how I started. That's literally how I started. Listen, life's about a lot of luck too. I know we make our own luck. Life is about a lot of luck, thank the Lord, sitting next to Frank using his bankroll, building things up. That's how I started Before I found like I was writing for a website called the rxcom 20, 24 years ago, 23 years ago. Yeah, the rxcom, ken Weisner was his name and I was writing for his site. And it's a shame Ken wind up committing suicide Unbelievable Him and his wife due to gambling too. So I kind of feel bad about that. But I wrote for Ken and Ken made my introduction to the one and only Billy Walters. I don't know where you want to go next. 

25:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We'll get back to my interview with Bill in just one second, but I do want to remind you, if you're serious about betting right now, you have to check out Pinnacle Sportsbook. I've been using Pinnacle for a long time and, honestly, they're a great book, very reputable, good customer service. Most importantly, if you're a sharp, better and you want good betting limits limits that are posted before you actually place your bet you got to check out Pinnacle. Head over to Pinnaclecom slash hammer. Find out what the pros have known for decades. Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19 plus, not available in the US and, as always, please play responsibly. Let's get back into it with Ben yes. So I do want to go there next, but it's funny because I wanted to give you that time to tell the full story and, as you're telling it, you were talking about it being 1984 when you're getting introduced to card games. 

26:26
I'm born in 1986, but I lived a lot of the same things. You call it acey-deucy. I called it in-between growing up, where we played the exact same games and I would be a teenager. I'm in high school playing that with my friends and someone we would call it hitting the post If you had an ace and a deuce. You match the pot and if you hit the post, you had to double the pot is the way we played it, which was not, and we had some huge hands. So I'm in high school and I'm working. 

26:59
You talked about blue collar jobs. I was working retail. I was like in sports equipment and goods and stuff like that, and I'm literally calling you know two paychecks on some of these in-betweens, which was really fun. But the luck point also resonates with me too, because you know, for me, my entire gambling story is right place, right time. I just was posting numbers baseball numbers to Twitter and some guy found me that way, saying, hey, like you're beating the market with these numbers, you know you want to work with us. Had I not been doing that and if social media hadn't started Twitter in the early 2010s, that would never happen. So a lot of parallels, and it was really interesting to hear you go through all of those stories to hear you go through all of those stories. 

27:45 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
How did you get into it, rob? Is someone in your family? Come on, did you just hang around, knock around guys in high school? Or did your mom or dad, uncle, aunt, brother, someone had to show you gambling? It might've been taboo in your house when you were younger. So how did you get into this? 

27:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So it's pretty much the same as you. So my dad used to take me to the racetrack. I lived five minutes from Woodbine Racetrack at the time, so I used to go with him when I was younger. I'm from an Italian family. 

28:10 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
My mother. 

28:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Both my parents are Italian, but my mother had nine brothers and sisters, so around the holidays they would play Italian cards, card games, and I would just sit around and watch them as, like a 10-year-old old, 12 year old, all these things, and, uh, eventually, like I just learned the strategy to basic card games and I mean, I don't want to say that I got addicted from it, but I was very passionate about it of course we did yeah, I mean I I got. 

28:36
I grew up and I learned computers myself. So when windows first came out, they had mind sweeper, which is a logic game, and they had hearts, which is a card game, which I started to be able to memorize all the cards that were coming out. So in one round of hearts, if I play to this day, I know what the final cards are, what everyone has left at the end, intuitively. So it's all the same things as you bill. It was just a different era. It's like this happened to me 10, 15 years later instead, but I I'm glad I asked you because you reminded me. 

29:06 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
You know my family. Same thing. Every holiday time, when the kids went to bed, thanksgiving, a game broke out. The men played poker or pinochle, the ladies played continental. It was a form of gin Gin, but it was a 10-card gin. Yeah, so that is the same thing. That was a 10-card gin. Yeah, so that is the same thing. That was a normal thing. I mean, they weren't cutthroat, they were playing for pennies. 

29:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, quarters, yeah, that's it. 

29:31 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
But of course us kids, we had to be big shots. I was pitching quarters behind the post office. My cousin told me I had to do that. He told me I had to go low to the ground. You practice. So this was all from growing up in the families we grew up in. Unfortunately, most kids go the other way. They get themselves in trouble and they, you know, literally abandon gambling. And let me tell you something, not to say that I wasn't in trouble as a little kid. I was in trouble too. We all got in trouble. We learned from those mistakes. 

30:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, I'm in the same boat. I mean, I was a losing bettor for a long time and eventually just get to the point where you're like I don't want to do this anymore. It sucks losing. I don't want to have to meet a guy and pay him an envelope every single week. I'd rather be collecting envelopes. How can I figure that out? So you connected with Billy. We had one other person on this show that's worked with Billy. That was Alan Boston. We had on about a half year ago. I wonder if there was any overlap for you with that, but I'd love to hear the story about how you connected with Billy. 

30:32 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Oh yeah, no, I'll tell you, through Ken Weitzner, really connecting with Billy, and that's how I did it originally. And then I winded up, you know, talking with Billy a whole lot of times. You know there was, I winded up talking with Billy a lot of times. There was one meeting I had with Billy at a place here in Vegas where he sat me down and he was telling me a lot of things. When I say telling me a lot of things, he was a very slow talker too what that would do. The mythology, the method of him talking, not mythology methodology, the method of him talking, not mythology methodology. So that was very, very strong and powerful to me. The way he talks a little bit slower. The words meant more. 

31:15
I come from an area that I'm going a million miles an hour at all times and I knew of him. He was like a legendary status, even when I met him back then 25 years ago. And let me tell you something, rob, I know he gets a bad rap from a lot of people. They say, oh, what's the devil on? What was the devil doing? I remember they called him the devil. They called him so many different names, but I want to tell you one of the most generous, one of the most intuitive and thoughtful to me and people around me. I've watched this guy give away money to so many different people and help so many charities and be charitable. Now, granted, when we're working, you've seen him on 60 Minutes. He's betting a quarter of a million dollars on games down at the end at the time and you could see him talking to the person he's talking to on the phone. I mean, that's serious stuff that was going on there. You know you're in the middle of, you know, global thermal nuclear war. I mean, that's what it is for us here. So I get it. 

32:16
And sometimes yeah, all right, sometimes you have to put a fake out there, because what would happen is they would move overmove off you or better yet, it's what happened to a lot of us pros. They would move off me. I'll tell you right now, they not not move off me, they would bet off, bet my bets out. So that's like me betting into a sports book in town here. It's happened multiple times. It happened two or three times. I'll tell you what, though it was fixed immediately when I went on vsan and talked about it. So I'll bet into a sports book, let's say, a Caesars book. The employees of the Caesars book now would take that information and instead of betting it into their own little local guy or a smaller account, they bet it right into Circa, and Circa wouldn't normally move off of their account. But every time they're betting, obviously the game's going to move, so why not move off their $100 bet or $200 bet? That was obviously the game's going to move, so why not move off their $100 bet or $200 bet? That was happening to me. 

33:08
That's what happened to billy in the old days, of course. So of course he put a fake out there and put the wrong way out there to the key sports books that are going to move like. I'll give you an example. There was a sports book called jazz out there. Back in the day there was a sports book called rio. These are offshore books, not the rio in Vegas. So you play Rio or Jazz or maybe Catalina, because what would happen is they would overmove off you. 

33:29
But that would be an indicator in the market which I'm really good at, I have to tell you that's one of my strengths an indicator in the market to where the line would go. Well, now you bet the wrong way, so now the whole screen removed the wrong way. So for five grand he'd be able to get down 100 grand. The other way on the game only get a point better. That's the reason why. So there's reasons for everything. I'm just saying people say people have a lot of bad things to say, under anonymity of course. Uh, about, about billy and um, I'm just telling you the good things that I know from. He's always been really good to me. 

34:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I was gonna say that because, uh, I watched billy walters uh get inducted into the sports betting hall of fame at bet bash, which spanky set up, and you know I'm hearing all these testimonials about bill I I personally have never heard anyone say something bad about billy. It's always the bookmaker says he's betting into is like this guy was you know the greatest and this and that. So to hear this perspective is is funny because everyone just talks about him, you know like, but I'm sure behind the scenes people were you know constantly things what if that whole bet bash and spanky and stuff, things have certainly changed. 

34:37 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I'll tell you even and listen, I love spanky. Uh, I, I don't go to bet bash, but I, I don't know why I don't. I'm probably going to go next year. To be honest, I'll do my first one, I'll go to it. But I'll just tell you, a lot of those guys that are in that room they hated Spanky for years. 

34:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh yeah. 

34:55 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
They hated Billy Walters for years. So they're in that room and now they maybe turned a different leaf there and now welcoming it in the business, maybe because a couple of them went in the Hall of Fame, or maybe because a couple of them realized that our landscape needs betters. Like us, you're not going to hire, if you're not going to hire a team of guys at your sportsbook to watch the lines and watch, read socials, find out the stuff that we know well then you need someone like a Bill Krackenberger or a Spanky or literally a Rob Vizzola, whatever. You need us to sharpen up your lines, because you're paying someone 15 bucks an hour just to sit there with a computer and watch Don Best or watch Circa, and they're told whenever Circa or Pinnacle move, you move, move on air, don't take any bets. So those same guys some of them, you know, maybe need guys like us. 

35:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that because the partner that is still my betting partner nowadays. When I first connected with him, he had a very strong disdain for Spanky. Really couldn't stand him at all and part of the reason was we were originating several sports and you know he actually called Spanky the bane of his existence. Those are, that's the quote. So my first interaction, interactions with Spanky were very negative. 

36:18
I would. I'd go at him on Twitter and he called me one day and he said Rob, let's talk this through. Like what do you know about me? What have you heard? It's actually hilarious because that was our first ever phone interaction and was very upfront with him and said like I don't really agree with the way that you get access to information and things of those of that nature. I'll keep the rest of the conversation private, but it's funny because it's like seven years later. Now I talk to spanky every week, I call him a friend and we compete in the betting market and find different ways to get an edge, but it's just part of the ecosystem and I've grown to accept that. 

36:56 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Well, honestly, I may complete some of the things that you guys said and don't confirm it, but yeah, so if he's going to, he may have called you to listen. I'm going to get your plays, no matter what. 

37:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
If you want to work with me just give them to me. 

37:09 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I'll bet them for you. Just tell me how much you want on them, because I'm going to steal the information anyway. I don't mean to put it into the word steal, but he has a spring scraping program. Maybe he finds those outs, that has the play and he gets down because he's going to bet it in a bot. By the way, he's not the only one that does that, but however, he's one of the best at it. So you're better off working with him than than not working with him. So that that may be in the conversation. 

37:35
I'm not sure it's the first time you ever mentioned it, but I understand now the ecosystem and how it works, and some people have to just understand how it works. It's not, it's not, it's not all. You know hate and you know I'm not. What do you mean? I'm hate. Now listen, it happens. I understand there was one of my partners at the beginning hated him. So this was, you know, 15 years ago. But you know we've grown to be friends and, like I said, I'm even going to go to Bet Bash next year. 

38:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That'll be great. It'd be great to see you there when you were with Billy and even like, past that point. What was your edge in sports betting, bill? Like, were you more of a logistics guy working for billy? Were you originating, uh, were you, you know, doing news? All of the above? Where did your main edge come from with sports betting? 

38:19 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
no, just making the bet, doing the betting. Doing the betting was was the edge to have the outs and stuff. You know, billy had the great michael kent who passed uh, one of the greatest originators of all time. But there was also other like people that originated, alan boston being one of them. I know I've known alan about 20 years. Um, great, great, uh, you know he gets a lot of. He gets a lot of on the internet and stuff, because maybe he doesn't come across so well socially. 

38:44
Well, I gotta be real blunt, some of the smartest people in this space that are in this space now, I'm saying not the people that we don't know, because there's a lot of people that don't know anything about social media that are just as smart or much smarter than me alan, billy, michael kent, yourself but they just don't talk about anything. So, um, you know a lot of people that talk about these things that are out there. There's a lot of different. The nerds of the world, the ones that were picked last for kickball, the ones that were hung up on their locker by their friggin underwears, uh, they're the guys that now have a little bit of you know this, this thing about sports betting, and hey, gee, I can come on and I can talk about sports betting, and ha ha, I got all you guys back that did this stuff to me, you know. Um, not mentioning anybody you know per se, but just saying that that could be a little bit edges. 

39:31
But you know, the betting angle, though, was what I was doing to be able to get down back in the day. This is before the internet. So we had a. We literally had, there was literally a call center, and you'd go, everyone manned the phone. You did five, four, three, two, one go. Everyone had their own books to call. You know, and you say, whatever it may be, I don't know Penn State plus three and a half. Bang, everyone goes Penn State plus three and a half. And then you go to your second round of books Penn State plus three and a half. Then they would overmove. Next thing, you know it's one and a half. So, like I said, that kind of stuff was going on even way before me. I mean, his numbers were unbelievable. 

40:13
So there was so many things happening in Vegas. As a matter of fact, anyone that wants to read something really good, just put in a search engine sports betting computer group or the legend of the sports betting computer group. Oh my God, there is such great, it's a great like literally. It's going to take you maybe 40 minutes to read, but it's so good. The New York Partners I'm going to put something out here now. They were here at the BetFast show. So the New York Partners in that article is going to say we had New York betting partners. It's all about Billy Walker's article, the computer group. The betting partners were Stanley Thompson and Jimmy Everett. Jimmy just went into the Hall of Fame. 

40:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Here Were you here for that. I was there. I was at the ceremony, yeah. 

40:54 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Did you know Jimmy was known as Henry at Pinnacle? Did you know that or no? I did yes, okay, yeah, so it's out there. This is what I say about this. There's a great scene from the movie Casino. Robert De Niro I don't care for him, but I like his part. Ace Rothstein he said Jesus, back home in Chicago they were putting us in jail for this stuff. Here they're giving me awards. It's played true to life. We put two great guys in the Hall of Fame Jimmy Everett, Ron Sacco two of the greatest book owners ever, the book guys ever in the Hall of Fame. God bless them. I don't know. I don't know where we stopped. I don't know. I don't know where. I don't know where we stopped. I don't know what the question was. You have most of my stuff spontaneous, so I know you said read the questions. I'm really bad at doing that, so I'm really I'm better spontaneously. I did write down the last two questions, though if you told me to do that for later on. But yes, what's next? 

41:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
no, no, no, I actually prefer it that way. I always just like to give the guests a heads up of of, like here's what could potentially be coming, so you don't get caught off guard in any type of situation. I'm curious. So you talked about the internet changing things a little bit right. Can you walk me through that? Were you an early adopter of when you could start betting online, Because you know if your strength was getting down and getting down a lot of money? Were you you know if you could go back in time? Were you a believer in that the internet is going to change things for us? Were you quick to make that shift? 

42:17 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
no one's ever asked me this. I can't believe this. I've done a football season, a dozen shows a week for the last decade and a half. No one's ever asked this question. Because they're not smart enough to ask. They don't you know. They're not schooled enough to ask. 

42:30
Let me tell you something, rob. I hated it at first, hated it. I love when there's no screens, there's no Don Best to look at, there's no. You could just call a book and get a real line. Of course I hated it and I'll tell you what anyone from back in that day would hate it. We didn't want to know. We didn't want everyone to know what the line was at all the different sports books. But now if you interview other people, like maybe Richie Baccellari or something that you know worked that side of the counter, they were probably happy because now they could see what the line is at other sports. 

43:04
Now I shouldn't use Richie, because Richie was one of the bestest towns ever seen. He ran Caesars Sportsbook. You know there's a book out there called it's's a book on tape even, which is better for me. I have ADD. It's hard for me to read books and concentrate enough. It's called Smart Money. It was by Michael Koenig and it's about Richie Bocciolari is in it. He's called the Pencil I don't know what Billy Walters was known as, like Big Daddy Warbucks or something like that, and it's really good though, like that and it was. It's really good though if anyone wants to listen to a great book on tape and, oh my God, that's fantastic. But so I shouldn't use Richie. 

43:34
But the bookmakers back then that were a spanking refers them to them. The shoemakers back then. They would love to have. They love when the screen was invented and they can see the not random, they could see that even before. But to have it public, so public down on the internet that they could see that even before, but, um, to have it public, so public down on the internet that they could see lines and stuff of other shops, um, it was. It was probably great for them, um, bad for guys like me. When canter first came to town, I moved to town. Canter gaming came to town and, um, they were all about putting out their lines they had. They were the first sports book in this town. If you guys remember the guys from back then, all these years we weren't allowed to have a phone, an iPad, nothing, nothing inside the sportsbook, the guys that were making the rules and say hey here we are. 

44:20
Let's have a phone in here. They didn't even know why they were just so happy to have a little bit of power, because at home they're bossed around by their wives, their kids, whatever it may be that they were just so happy to come after someone and say you can't have a phone. 

44:32
Well, now they can't really say that anymore. At the counter I guess they can, but no one does. But think about this. So there's no phones allowed in the casino. Cantor comes in town, which is Cantor Fitzgerald big place in New York Howard Lutnick CEO Liam Ades was the gaming guy, made a lot of money for the company, made a lot of money for himself. Comes to town, takes over the town and they say you know what? We're going to put these stations at every single sportsbook. We have these computer modding and a computer at every single seat with the lines everywhere. They had pinnacle lines, that's right. They had pinnacle lines right there in Las Vegas which, let me be blunt, that had to be illegal, showing the lines of offshore sports books. It wasn't just the lines of the local casinos and they were there for a couple of years until they got fined the biggest fines ever levied against any gaming companies as far as I know. They were fined like almost $40 million and, let's just face it, they were ran out of town. 

45:31 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, that's really interesting because I, they were ran out of time. Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting because, uh, I've, I've, I've asked that question to different people before I think, off the record, um, I used to be, you know, really close friends with Dinky. Rest in peace. Um, he's, he's told me a lot about that time as well, and it's funny because, um, there was no one that was like that I asked that question to, was in the middle of. You know, yeah, I was just going to kind of see it play out. It was either I hated it, I didn't want it to exist, or I, like, completely bought in on on the internet and the screen, right away there was. It's funny that, like the revisionist history or everyone answering that question, there was no one who was like, yeah, you know, I just kind of wanted to see it play play out. It's very extreme opinions one way or another, which I find really interesting. I did see you, bill, years ago. Now, I'm horrible with dates, but I watched Action on Showtime. 

46:23 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Yeah, it was about four or five years ago. 

46:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
With yourself Vegas, Dave Kelly in Vegas, were all part of that and you were connected with Warren Sharp on that documentary and you moved along. 

46:40 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I brought Warren on. 

46:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I want to kind of ask about that. It's very clear that you're working with some originators in the space nowadays and you're still heavily involved in the game right now. Oh yeah, for sure, back in the 90 nowadays, definitely, and you're still heavily involved in the game right now? 

46:53 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Oh yeah, oh no for sure. Listen, back in the 90s, frank and I Frank, we used to do our own power ratings on the sports. We didn't have anyone to go to, we didn't have no connections, I just had his bankroll on like a middle and scalp. But as far as actually getting games and getting information, frank had his own power ratings and he taught me power ratings. We won. 

47:11
By the way we won, we'd always bet more on the stronger side. So if a game was minus four, we felt it was going to minus six by game time. We bet $1,000 minus four and come back the other way plus six for $700. We always had more on the stronger side. Guess what that might have been wrong. Looking back at that now, that might have been wrong. It might have been wrong. Looking back at that now, that might have been wrong. It might have just been right, just going with the strong side and not let's just face it we were middling and scalping for the other sports book. So if we bet plus the plus six with pinnacle, they welcomed it come on. 

47:43
We have a four and a half percent edge on it. Yeah, we want that side. We we were always lose our money to the sharper sports books and even though we make money off the slower moving sports books or the originating sports books, probably wrong, probably right just to bet all that money on the sharp side. But we did our own power ratings. Until I met ken, until I met some people in the business and I met some other groups that were winning, winning groups and and I met them and they literally really told me about just betting one side. They want nothing to do with. I met some other groups that were winning groups and I met them. They literally really told me about just betting one side. They want nothing to do with middles. They can't get enough down. 

48:19
I thought the edge was bigger. I'll never forget that too. That was something that I this is really a thought that just came to my brain I remember telling the kid and I say kid, he was a little bit older than me I remember telling him I just thought the edge on a bet was bigger. I thought if I bet something, you know I have a you know 15, 20% edge, no way, but you have a 5% edge and that's a ton. So why give back money on the other side when we know something's going to move so much and we have this 5% edge on volume and would equal a lot of money? So, yeah, back in the day I learned that you follow people, frank, and I didn't, even even though we're partners. We didn't even go by his power ratings anymore. It was all my connections. Frank always says you were much more aggressive with the bankroll. You made us a ton of money. You know, thank you, for he thanks me. He doesn't realize how much I thank him. He actually thanks me to this day and that's really not true. I thank him. I would have never had the bankroll to do what I did. Yes, I was aggressive. Yes, I took $10,000 of his money and said listen, you know he gave me like, oh, he gave me six figures and he's just like here, just handle this and send it. And yeah, and when the ROI came back, he was like what did you do here? Wow, but I was more aggressive. 

49:28
I would trust sports books and you know we got screwed too. I'm not going to listen. I'm not saying these sports books are the greatest books in the world. Like I told you, ace's Gold 45,000. I can go on and on and on. 

49:38
The original Skybook guys. One of those guys screwed me out of $40,000. The three partners one of them went one way and he wound up screwing everybody New Yorker, and you know there was a lot of other books too. There was Eddie Hadid in Antigua. He was screwing people. Listen, english sports betting. They screw people. I'll give you the big one WSCX. They came here. They had a big we ate at the Palm Steakhouse. The owner, jay Cohen, and the other two partners, hayden, and it was three partners. I just can't think of them right now. But yeah, they all came here. And well, jay was here really to try to change things around and he was a smart guy. He tried to change things around and make things legal. Actually went to jail for it, but they were on 60 Minutes from Antigua and they got. They literally had like 40,000 customers the next day. They made the government look so bad on 60 Minutes Sunday night and somehow in the end it's hard to believe Rob WSEX screwed everybody. They didn't pay everyone. 

50:43
So for as much money as I made, I definitely got screwed out of a lot of money. You know it's funny. We never tell you, shouldn't? Anyway? You shouldn't tell your wife anything like if my wife only knew the money that was owed to me by different things, different people, different sources, different partners, different she'll be like oh what, what? You can't do that to your wife or your spouse or significant other. You know pussies do that. What do you know? Guys have no one to talk to this. This is what they do. They want to tell their. Listen, if I didn't take the chance I took with my original six grand that I had in the bank, I'd never make a dollar today. 

51:18
So by taking those chances and by getting screwed, I made money, if that makes any sense. I made money by getting screwed that's right, because I wouldn't have the heart and the balls to do what I did by sending money to different sports books and making those big bonuses, taking the chance that one or two would screw me out of money. There was a lot more of the other way. You know there was other books that had stupid, sick deals. I'm not even telling you guys. You wouldn't even believe the deals though. There were so many different sports books out there. You're talking Antigua, curacao, panama, colombia, even, of course, costa Rica. Just so many different sportsbooks all over the place having crazy sick deals, matching bonuses, no juice Fridays. It was a great. Like Goodfellow says, it was a glorious time. 

52:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Out of curiosity, because you bring up your wife, and I've talked about this on the pod before. Sure, my wife used to ask me every day, good day, bad, much did we win, how much did we lose? And then after a while, I just would say to her ask me at the end of the month or at the end of the year, like we're not doing this, playing this game every day, how how much insight does your wife have into the day-to-day betting, if at all? Just out of curiosity zero. 

52:36 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
She's got zero. She doesn't know anything and she knows that. Uh, you know she. She knows that we have a good life now. My wife and I grew up together. We're together 38 years since we're kids. We're together since we're like 16 years old. We're together since we're kids. We had one car between us, uh, broken down, toyota. We had, you know, working. We both were working blue collar jobs. My wife's the smarter one. She went to college, though we had no money for college in my house, thank god, mom and dad, um, but yeah, so. So you know she's the smarter one. She worked for very hard for a living and she knows the last decade or so, more than that, she hasn't had to work because of my income, um, and, and she's very happy she doesn't know anything. I would never tell her anything, you never. 

53:17
Why would you worry your spouse or your mom or your dad, especially like my mom and dad? You know you have the italian, italian parents. You knew, billy, are you doing anything wrong? I used to go on larry grossman. You know, 1999, a big show out here. It was the only sports betting show I knew. You can bet on it. We're talking about it. I said, mom, it's me and Len Banker, a legendary guy. I don't know if you've ever heard of him. Len Banker and I every Friday talk on sports betting and we were together and my mom was just so worried about us. So back then it was like something you kept quiet, worried about us. So back then it was like something you kept quiet. 

53:53
If you, if she told her family my son's a bet, sports for living or gambles, what would they think? Oh, he's a gambler, he's no good. You know now it's fashionable, it's everywhere you go to a stadium. It's everywhere. Little kids 10, 12, 13, 14 years old, it's everywhere. And you know I preach responsible for all this gambling stuff. I'm talking about all these good things in my life and all these things that have come from it. I still try to teach every day responsible gambling. I know what it is to be that little 9, 10, 11, 12 year old kid degenerate. You know and I know what it is. Now it's so easy for them because you know they see it everywhere. They see the advertisements everywhere and there's celebrities and there's sports heroes and athletes and it's at the ballpark and it's everywhere. So it's hard for kids not to fall into this today. 

54:41
Would I want my kid to do this. No, I wouldn't want him to gamble at all, I wouldn't. If you want to go to college, great. I think college is overrated. But I would want him to go to college great, I think college is overrated. But I would want to go to college if you wanted college. But I want to have street smarts. I want to have common sense. I want to have decision making skills. I want to act as if, act confident. That's important to me, maybe even more important than a college degree. 

55:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What does your betting look like nowadays? Bill relative to what it was in the past, because you're doing a lot of things right. Bill relative to what it was in the past, because you're doing a lot of things right, I know you. I mean you're doing tons of media. Now you have the youtube channel. How much of your day-to-day goes into actual betting now? And like how widespread is that? Do you bet all sports, specific sports, year-round? Uh, just walk us through that if you can. 

55:25 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
You know monday mornings are real tough monday mornings. I set my alarm for 5 15 am, especially now college basketball season, because I am the one betting in these casinos here. I bet Circa every day. I'm betting Circa because they put up some of the smaller market sports and I don't mean smaller market sports, it's smaller market games so they'll have them up there. So I am doing betting still every day. But, however, now I told you 5.15 because I a 530 am Fox hit drive time traffic in the east. I do a 530 am hit. 

55:59
I do a 730 am podcast called Corn Flakes and Cracks. Pretty funny, corn Flakes and Cracks. It's up and up in Boston. Me and Jeff Dawson I do that. These are just like 20 minute hits though, so they're not that bad. But on a Monday morning when the market is not efficient, maybe these should be on Wednesday or Thursday. I have to rethink this for next year. But it's hard to say no to your bosses at Fox if they tell you hey, can you do Doug Gottlieb or literally doing some of the biggest shows out there? Colin Coward, one of the big shows it's hard to say no to them to do. Hits on that to advertise for our show. On Sunday we do Countdown to Kickoff on Fox Sports Radio nationwide over 500 networks. I'm on there with Jeff Schwartz, former football player Brian Ngo, and it's funny when I first started out with these guys a few years three years ago they knew sports betting, but now they're professionals. 

56:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

56:53 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I just think it's just like everyone else, though, but more so with me involved. They look more at props now than looking at sides and stuff like that. We actually have something new because, you know, they probably thought they can win betting day of the game on NFL sides just like everyone else thinks. You can go to any sports book in this town on a Sunday and at 10 minutes to post, you can guarantee every single casino in this town has a sports book that people get shut out in every Sunday. Why is that? They don't know what to bet, but they know they have to have action Last minute. Just get online and try to make a bet, and that's the most efficient market there is. And most of them they wear their emotions and their souls on their sleeve. They're betting into the one sports book they're in. They don't shop lies. They don't care about that. 

57:44
I'm going to tell you right now. That's why I have this thing called the Crack Challenge. It's five games a week against the spread, 10 minutes before it kicked off. I challenge almost anyone to be able to beat that, and I have that on my show with these two guys. Um, last year jeff actually did finish a hair, a hair above even and uh, this year they're both hurting a little bit, but that's normal. 

58:06
It's normal to hit, you know, 43, 44, 45. You're laying 11 to 10 against an efficient market day of the game. First one sports book, good luck yep, I, I listen, I. 

58:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I make my livelihood from betting two sports, nfl and nhl and I tell people I do sunday morning, nfl content, I, I preach the exact same messages like this is the wrong time to be betting. I'll give you my opinions on the game, but I don't have, I'm not going to win at this time, like your time to bet was earlier in the week and that's when you should be betting. 

58:35 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Don't you do a live show on Sundays? 

58:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I do Sunday morning. 

58:40 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Listen, I'll be blunt, Rob. I should have asked you off air. But to tell you right now, on the show, you can cut it if you want. Rob, they expect winners. 

58:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, they expect winners live. I know I say it every. I give the same spiel in the first 10 minutes of every Sunday morning show and it always starts with I've been tracking these bets for four or five years. I'm not going to win betting into the market at this time, but people still join because they want the opinions. I mean, I can't explain it, crack, I honestly can't, but people they, they listen, I get it. They want the sunday morning nfl content even it's on in the background, just to maybe even affirm an opinion that they might have had on a game and they're like oh, rob also likes it, or? 

59:23 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
something like that. Right, that's good, okay, okay yep, yeah, I can't. 

59:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I can't sit there and lie to people and be like go out and bet these picks right now. That's what I can't. Sit there and lie to people and be like go out and bet these picks right now, that's what I can't stand about. The content space. How many Sunday morning shows are there from people who are out there just giving out picks and it's like, oh, this number is wrong. It's like it's wrong. Well, you can bet into it at $100,000 limits right now if you want. It's not a wrong number. 

59:48 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Your opinion is wrong right, you could pour out as much money as you can carry in a bag or a satchel or a suitcase onto the counter Sunday morning at mostly every big casino here the Caesars properties, mgm down at Circa, westgate, south Point they'll all take six-figure bets day of the game. That's how efficient that market is. But let me try to bet an nfl prop and on the same exact time, and they're going to take I just got cut to 500 on one of them uh, from a thousand and they're going to take 500 or a thousand dollars. That's how hard it is for them to control that market when they're putting up, you know, 500, 600, more than that. 

01:00:27
Sometimes some of these sports books, draft king, fandle they're putting up a thousand props a day. So these, these places, betmgm it's hard to control that market. I have a big edge on that, like I'm sure you also do on stuff like that. It's a small market. They can't get the lines right. Even if they have a prop guy, they cannot get the lines right. If the guy was good enough, he'd be betting on his own, he wouldn't be putting up the lines and he'd be trying to do the stealing himself if it's stealing. 

01:00:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
And I will say to that and Johnny's not with me in studio today, but it's something we talk about pretty regularly on the podcast as well Nowadays. I used to look down on prop betting a lot as someone who's mostly bet major markets my whole life. It was like why am I to bet props and get limited in all these spots? It doesn't make sense. But what I've personally noticed, bill, is that, especially in recent years, there's so much prop volume out there nowadays because that's what the average better wants to bet. I can bet more on an NFL prop and this is just me, maybe it's different for you than I can bet on, like a college football, a college basketball total this morning, and that's not an exaggeration and that, like that, just brings opportunity. Now, and there's just so many offerings in these markets and these books are trying to compete with each other on offerings. They offer so many things. You can go through like a thousand NFL markets. It's so hard not to find something that's worth betting in those markets yeah, no, there's going to be. 

01:01:57 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Uh like, tonight's game is a Monday Night Football game. I always say it, especially coming from where I did. Everyone's going to have that, no matter how much you tell them, I tell them this is an efficient line. This line, uh, this, this particular game opened up like pick them and it's up to like three spots out here in Vegas. Um, that's why I was just looking at my Don best screen is to see, um, I use spank odds and Don best, both, um, but I'm looking here. I mean this is an efficient line. Now it's two and a half and three. 

01:02:24
How can you bet into this line? Now, the only thing you could bet into this line is a prop. You can bet a prop bet or something like that. If you have to even bet, do you have to bet just because the game's on TV and we're so close to the sun that we say no, we don't have to bet? But yet even the people that watch a lot of these shows, they have to bet because it's on TV and if you're going to bet, at least bet a prop bet or something. 

01:02:47
It's so hard to win long term and you know what happens too, they're going to bet the game. They're going to bet one of the sides of the game tonight. No matter what we say and what happens, they always think they should have won, because they only look at the game through the lens of their team. Two different guys can watch the team A and B and both A and B can make cases for why they won or should have won. So they just got unlucky when they lost. So they're going to go back at it again the next day and and you know, our eyes play tricks on us too. 

01:03:19
I've said this a team never looks as good as they did when you're watching them. Conversely, a team never looks as bad. So the next week when someone sees, um, you know, a kansas city doing so great not that they good this particular week, but any week that someone rolls in a game 41 to 10, oh my God, I knew they were this good, I can't wait to bet them next week. Well, they don't realize it's all baked in the line, it's factored in the line that's going to be made that night. It's not going to be like oh, the bookmaker missed that, that they won 41 to 10, but that's what people do. They look at things through a lens with these blinkers on and they just don't realize other factors and variables going on around them. 

01:04:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep, totally agree with you on that. I want to ask you about crackwinscom. So the reason I want to ask you about this is that selling picks is often looked down on by many people in the sports betting space whether fair or unfair. I've sold picks before I completely understand it. I ran prediction machine for a while. I'm curious on your end. Why did you choose to sell picks and what would you say to those who are critical of pick selling? 

01:04:27 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I understand why they are. Look at what's out there. Look at these services that are all BS. Look at Twitter. Look at all the times I put a tweet up or something and someone else comes in and says, oh yeah, we have killed people. And they show their little Bet365. First of all, if you're allowed to bet at Bet365, I can guarantee you're a loser. So they show this little ticket at Bet365 that they have, or or one of the offshore site, I'm sorry, one of the legal sites. So I can guarantee, if you're betting these at one of the legal sites, you're you're live. 

01:04:59
People only knew it, but most people don't know. So, uh, every time I post something, there's someone in my thread and it's real simple. Twitter's got a great fee, a great feature. Now, too, you can hide their reply and block them, so you can actually hide their reply, so people don't see their reply. That just started about six months ago. But going back to what I'm saying, of course I see what's out there. I see these and I'm not going to use Twitter. I'll use the TikToks or the Instagram, which I have them both. But even my assistant my assistant runs them. I don't even run. I don't know the login. I don't even know how to put up a. I don't know what it's called. Whatever an Instagram post is. 

01:05:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
A story or a reel. 

01:05:37 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
yeah, I don't even know how to do it, so that's not me. I'm on Twitter that's my feed every day. Assistant takes care of the other ones, but he sends me some things, rob, that I have to tell you. I'm so embarrassed to say this to you. I actually enjoy watching one of them. Most of them I hate, but there's a guy on there that's so entertaining. He comes on, he refers to himself in the third person. You know he, you know punches his sleeves and takes his chains and everything. He says yeah, you got the source. You've reached guy. You've reached the guy you've been wanting. You've been looking for me. I'm here now to explain to you. We went 15-1 last week again. Now I think it's amusing, but how stupid is the guy. 

01:06:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, it's an amusing crack, because you know that it's not real and it's a joke. 

01:06:29 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Why not say you were 10-5, though, yeah, exactly you know what I mean. Like, like you know, appease me, say you went nine and six and ten and five, you know, and it's every week, this guy, he's so good. He said we did it again, we swept. He said hockey, we swept the hockey board, seven and oh, last night I mean he actually said this and you read his responses and they're all him and you know he opened up a million accounts or someone. Oh my God, we've done it again. Yes, you did it again, thank God. 

01:06:59
People said you saved me. I was behind on my mortgage. I, why do I enjoy this? I don't, like I said maybe it's just so funny, but really it's sad because if the under 25 or under 30 crowd sees this, oh my God, this guy, this guy saved this guy, he had a mortgage and he bailed him out it's just destruction. 

01:07:20
And even Kelly and I, when we were on action, we did not know the producers that, we did not know Vegas State was on there. We didn't know they didn't want to tell us there was a polarizing person on there. I'd never met Vegas State, by the way. Um, he wouldn't want to meet someone like me because he just wouldn't. He just, you know, talked his talk and he really can't out talk me in this space anyway, um, but um, and not that I don't like to put anyone down, I don't ever put him down, you know, um, but it's real simple. You know, like I, on the show he said it's funny, he, always he. I tell you why he ran so bad on action. He just I think he was one in seven, I think he won one game out of eight and he said yo, whenever you guys are around is around the show. You can watch it. It's still on Showtime on their docuseries, you can watch it. If you have Showtime, every time you guys are around, I lose. I don't know what it is, you know. Know he, just he ran, it's hard to go one in seven. If you try, you couldn't do it. I mean he ran one in seven and we were upset that he was even on the show. 

01:08:20
They put those little pop-ups loser. All the people were saying they put them up after, because I really had a hard time with being on a show because I know what he does a show because I know what he does. But in the end it showed out the difference. I tried to show like they wanted me to go carry a hundred thousand dollars to the sports book. It's not me, I'm not going to do something like that. It's not. You know, um, I would get my little kia every day and you know he would get his uh rolls royce suv and the people will come in onto the twitter and say, well, he's got that car, look what you drive. Like, they're so stupid, they don't even know what it's like. He gets that car because of you guys, like, but, um, I wouldn't do that. 

01:08:58
I went and showed people some little nuggets of information that I thought were smart and uh tried to explain a little more about bankroll, bankroll management and stuff. And listen, the ultimate goal of crack wins is, uh, you know, the go-to alternative for the snake wall salesman, the charlatans that they're all making empty promises by providing valuable information that they can, that can sharpen better. Come on, that cannot sharpen better. So I've heard all the criticism from who think that uh, tout, the four-letter word is a bad word, and I understand where they're coming from. But if you look at, like the what's the dictionary Webster's dictionary defines tout as an attempt to sell something. Yes, so like, uh, by by, by pestering people in an aggressive, bold manner. 

01:09:43
That's not what I do. You know I had some of those guys come to me and say, bill, are you out of your? Do you know how much money I can make? Let me call people, let me have your mailing list, let me have your list and you can call people and we'll make a lot more money than you're ever seeing in your life. I've got to tell you something. It's not me. I'm very transparent. I have a Sunday night. 

01:10:05
I work on a write-up for the previous week every single week, every game out there on my website, on my app. Every single week I have the write-up. And why do I have it on there? I want everyone to know what I have losing weeks. I want everyone to know. By the way, I've had the app for years. I've never had a losing year. I've never had a losing quarter. I run so well on that. 

01:10:25
Sometimes I shake my own head because if I actually don't front-run customers, so I don't bet, I don't bet it and then give it to them when the line's moving. That's not what we do. We have obtainable lines, we give out, and it's just not what I do there. It's so different than other sites and services. Now I will tell you, there's not even services out there that move the lines. There's only a couple, maybe Fez Right, angle Sports, brad Powers. I'll mention the other guys. I don't care about them. I'll never mention your competitors. Or, come on, give me a break. These are guys that really make livings for betting sports too, that just have services on the side. So there's only a couple of them, but there's thousands of them that'll rip your eyeballs out of your skull for a grocery dollar. 

01:11:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, it's tough differentiating from that crowd and I think a lot of people get lumped in with that crowd when they're selling, no matter what, and listen fair or not. That's just what happens in the space. But yeah, I just wanted to get your perspective on that. 

01:11:24 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I want to do a lot of those tough guys too, rob, that are all hiding on Twitter and they know who they are. Some big names, big names too, on Twitter and they're all. You know the telephone tough guys, the keyboard warriors that every week they're on, they're down. They just if you sell games, they come after you. I know they do so. Instead of fighting with them, I block and move. But however, those same tough guys, they know where I am every week. You wanna say something? You wanna come discuss something with me, like a human? You know where I am On Thursdays I'm down at South. Well, now we're down at Circa. I do shows, all the national shows. I do shows out in public all the time. I walk around sports books. It's funny, no one's ever approached me like that Was the same tough guy they are on Twitter. 

01:12:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I think that tends to happen in the Twitter space for sure, a lot of keyboard warriors Listen, I again. The world is very polarized right now. Right, there's people take extremes on both sides of the thing both sides and in this particular conversation it's like touts are good, are okay, or touts are bad, and to me there's a middle line that we can draw with. It's fine to tout in some capacities, and maybe tout's not the right word. Just sell picks, because, I agree, the definition of tout is different. But there's things that I see regularly in the space where I can understand why people get a bad rap. So like releasing a line that might be available at one sports book, for example, that's not widely available, like there's certain tactics. 

01:12:51 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I hate that. I hate stuff like that too. I hate that. 

01:12:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So I know where some of the complaints come from in regards to certain people Releasing a line while it's steaming, like that's stuff that you you know you shouldn't do. So I get it, but yeah, they're. You know, I meet people who hate me at Bet Bash every year and then they come up, they introduce themselves and they're like I just want to say like I actually I give you a hard time, but I actually really enjoy the content right really. 

01:13:15 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Yes, someone's come up to you and said, uh, I'm the guy that I'm ABC on Twitter. I know I give you a hard time, but it's nice to see him in person. 

01:13:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep, I would. I would give out his Twitter address. I don't want to expose the guy, but he basically said yeah, I've, I've given you a hard time for four or five years, but I actually want to tell you I really appreciate what you've done for the industry and I follow all of your content. I'm like, well, why don't you, why do you give me a hard time? Then? And he's like it's just my nature, like okay, right, right. 

01:13:41 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
That's funny. I actually teach people too on my app. I write articles up all the time and I actually teach people things I you know to be. How are you going to be successful in this business compared to where your mind and your model is now? Your brain is? Now? You know good habits and access to good information. I try to teach my subscriber how to protect their bankrolls not chasing or playing parlays, which everyone plays oh my God. I write articles on this stuff and you know the old adage one to 2% of bankroll. That's hard for people to do. You have a thousand dollars to your name, by the way, for sports betting, not to take the missus out to dinner or a movie or paying a bill a thousand dollars, a lot of the sports betting. 

01:14:18
You're supposed to bet $20 on the games That'll grow once your bankroll grows. If you double your bankroll now, you're betting $40. And that's exactly what you're supposed to do. Not everyone's going to get lucky enough to have a Frank that puts up 100 grand and lets you fly with his bankroll. That's not the way it works. So you have to build up your bankroll, you have to build up different things in your life and you have to have skill sets of not chasing. That is the biggest thing. Let me just get out for the day these casinos are built because of that. Let me just get out, God. Let me just get even. I'm going to go home and no more gambling. Today, Some of them pray to God and say I'm not going to gamble ever again in life. So I mean it's sick. It's a sickness. 

01:14:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep, totally. I want to do a lightning round with you really quick here. Just some quick questions. You can take as much time as you want to answer them, but who's the smartest person you've learned from in the sports betting world? 

01:15:19 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Ken was telling me that you know, I didn't know you can really make the kind of money and make a living betting sports. So as much as I don't want to say Billy's name, because the people may think you're name dropping, that's I'm sorry. I wouldn't be able to name drop if it wasn't real. Someone would get back to Billy and say something, so I'd have to say Billy. 

01:15:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right, fair enough. What's one piece of advice that stuck with you throughout your betting career? 

01:15:39 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Probably and Billy's the one who pushed that on me too it's going to pay your taxes. So if you file as a pro, pay your quarterly estimated taxes. I know it's hard to do. It's so hard to do. It's so hard to pay a quarterly estimated tax. Even me, I hate paying. I hate paying the tax. You know every quarter, literally. But you have to pay your taxes, because if you don't pay your taxes, that's going to catch up with you sooner or later. These books now keep records. I'm betting on all the legal books here, so I'm betting even with the DraftKings and FanDuel's of the world. They're going to send tax statements at the end of the year. At least I would send them. When I hit Banchero. I hit Banchero to be the first pick. I won a large six-figure. That was probably my undoing, though, at draft, because I have to admit it. 

01:16:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I actually beat them up on that. It was a news-based, information-based play. They don't take too kindly to that one. 

01:16:30 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Yeah, no, I beat them up. But you know what? I remember I was doing Gil's show on a Thursday and I remember being in the South Point and then who was the guy? I think he just got fired from Twitter I shouldn't say fired. They let him go from ESPN and so he came out and he was the basketball at Woj. He was the basketball expert. Now he says Banchero's not going first. He hasn't done his third. It went back to 12-1. I know it was 2-1 in the morning. What does Bill do? Go to the border again. But another 5,000. That's a true story. Went to the border. I mean I already had Listen, I won a couple hundred thousand just from DraftKings. 

01:17:09
On that. I have the tickets. I have the copies on my phone too. That was probably the undoing year for that. What are you supposed to do? Just ignore it? No, and just say oh, you have to have a win-loss statement from all the casinos and sportsbooks you play with the casinos. You can write off your losses against your wins and you pay tax on that number. Now, if you file as a pro, you can write off your office, your miles, your this, your that, your traveling expenses, whatever it may be. 

01:17:33
But, however, that still was a very big year for me, so paying taxes would probably be the piece of advice that stuck to me throughout my career, especially now when the legal sports books I'm beating them, crushing some of the books here in town. I just realized how much money the South Point I'm up on just as the season started they were taking. Listen, they were taking 3,000 bucks on pre-season games. That's all I can tell you from this. So they got beat up. They we're taking $3,000 on preseason games. That's all I can tell you from you. So they got beat up, they got beat up. 

01:18:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What's your biggest pet peeve about the betting industry today? 

01:18:05 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Not even close. This is not even close. It's definitely those. I think it's TikTok. One of those two TikTok or the other one, instagram. I can't stand it, even though I said the one guy I laughed about a little bit because I just like the way his mannerisms and how he shoots his cuffs and straightens his hat out and looks at himself in the mirror. I think it's funny. But I don't think it's funny All the people out there that are lying so much about the games, even the ones on Twitter, that come to the end of your tweet and put some on there. 

01:18:35
I watched this guy win all these things in a row. We're killing people. I can your tweet. Put some on there. I watch this guy win all these things in a row. We're killing people. I can't stand the lies. I can't stand the lies. That would be. My pet peeve is that I think they've tightened it up a little bit on twitter, where they let you do these things like, um, you know, deleting the, their reply and blocking them so easy. But I I don't. I can't stand the lies on the other two apps mostly, too, that you know they just anyone could say anything on these social media sites. Anyone could say anything about anyone, and there's a portion of the audience that's going to believe it, no matter what. It could be a total lie. People have lied about me multiple times and there's a portion that can't wait to believe something like that and run with it. 

01:19:18 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Uh, it's tough to watch, for me too, the guy who rents the fake ferrari. He has the fake roll as he rents the ferrari, has the fake rolex on in the car giving out sports picks. You could be like me too. It's. Oh my god man, I can't oh, I've seen this. 

01:19:32 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Get these guys with these fancy cars. 

01:19:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh, it's, it's absurd um any books, podcasts or shows that you would recommend for people who are interested in learning more about sports betting you know, um, I actually like our show too. 

01:19:47 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
That's on leeson gill and I, every every thursday morning I'm on eight to nine on leeson. Um, I always give out some kind of nuggets or a little information on there. But but what do I listen to? What do I watch? I like watching, even though I know he's a little bit polarizing for people. Steve Fezzik I like watching his stuff. I like watching his Friday show with Gil. He's been on your show before Yep. He does his own podcast with Las Vegas Chris. That I think is good. It's really tough to give out winners on there. Now, you know, I'll say that Las Vegas, chris Fez, turn off, turn offs on like. I think they're on like daily. I watch a couple of us when I in the background turn offs with Mitch and Polly, I think. 

01:20:30
No, but he has a podcast, oh yes. 

01:20:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Simple, simple handicap or right angle sports YouTube channel. 

01:20:36 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Not that they're even running good this year or whatever, but if you could just pick up little nuggets here and there once in a while, even a method Not that I even agree with everyone on these shows, but I pick off little nuggets, I learn from them. I'm still open to learning from people. You know what? Fez gets a lot of shit from people. Maybe he brings on a little on himself on Twitter and you know things on shows. I tell him that. But I want to tell you something. I do some stuff with Fez. He gives me a lot of plays every week and some of them maybe he has the slightest little edge where I wouldn't put a portion of my bankroll, you know, onto something that he would. He may push edges a little bit too much, but some of the stuff that like his stronger stuff, that's lights out, brother, I'll tell you right now. You know I think Fez gave me money one time. 

01:21:31
Three years ago, and I can't tell you how many times I've settled with him, and Fez is also the same thing with taxes. Times I've settled with him and Fez is also the same thing with taxes Same thing. We handle that ourselves too, yeah. So I'll just tell you right now I think that he gets too much shit, for he's a very, very astute sportsman. Not that I would do everything he does when he laid some big money lines. I just can't do it, I know it's easy. 

01:21:55
It's usually easy money. I get it, but he gave out some college basketball one. That wasn't easy. 

01:22:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Purdue Purdue minus 8,000. Yeah. 

01:22:03 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
You knew exactly what it was Minus 8,000, which is 80 to 1, right, yeah, 80 to 1. 

01:22:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
1 to 80, yeah. 

01:22:08 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Of course it's hard to believe, when you say 80,000, that someone even laid that on the game. I thought he laid 40, or 4,000. 

01:22:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's done those before too, bill you, you probably there's, we can. There's been dozens of them over the years, so but, but, but overall. 

01:22:22 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I mean you can go to any single person in this town If they'll tell you the information. You can go down to the bookmakers and stuff Jay Cornegay or who's running the book over there, Chris Bennett, I think now. 

01:22:35
Chris Bennett. Chris will tell you Fez has a winning account. And let me tell you something else about Fez, generous guy. Why do I do this, rob? Why do I go by guys that tip? How do I rate you by how you tip and take care of people? Because that's what I was, that blue-collar guy, so I know what it is to take care of people. I did a simple transaction with him recently at at the, at the circa I I put money from my account to his account like we just they just press the button. He's like no, no, you gotta give him 20 bucks like they press the button. Like I tip when I take money out of my apps. It's you know I I'll tip and I'll tip when I catch a ticket in. But fez is one of the most generous guys. He doesn't let you reach in your pocket for anything. Um, at least me he doesn't. And, uh, he's a very generous guy. 

01:23:18
I rate people a lot. Listen, charles barkley, I've been with him. I watched him give a hundred dollars to five different guys. Like you know, more than that was eight guys, that eight. I've watched him give money. But I also know for a fact that tiger woods didn't tip anybody like. So I'll go after the ones and I'll rate them good people by how they tip and take care of people. Now, that's not the only factor, but that is a deciding factor One of them in my life how you take care of regular people, because I'm a regular person. 

01:23:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I love that and I think the same way as well. I'm going to close with the final two questions here, which you know, or at least wrote down beforehand. 

01:23:56 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I did write them down. I got to find them on a page no beforehand. Oh, I did write them down. 

01:24:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I got to find them on a page. No, I'll just ask them to you. Don't worry about it. It doesn't have to be related to sports betting, or it can be related to sports betting, totally up to you. But I want you to give me one thing that you think is plus EV in life and one thing that you think is minus EV in life. 

01:24:16 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Oh yeah, this, I really didn't do anything for this. This is uh watching and learning from people I respect, definitely plus ev. I have to watch um things every week. I'm watching not just fez and not just chris, and not just turn off. There's some other things, especially in the off season. I watch uh in life, uh, that that I would definitely would think would be plus EV, and the opposite side of that, the negative EV would be. 

01:24:48
I tried to cut this out recently and it's hard because you know people tend to want to be around money guys and think they have money. You know I try to cut out negative people. I can't stand negativity. Listen, I go into every situation with a positive mindset. Dr Norman Vincent Peale, the power of positive thinking 40 years ago in my brain. Still I think it does something. I think there's something we don't know. Things run better. There's um. 

01:25:22
You know my uncle I'll give you the, the old word back east. I remember my uncle was playing, playing poker all the time. My cousin anthony, the smart one in the family. He said your uncle bobby has a busted ass. He just wins at everything he does. He's just very, very lucky. And listen, I don't put a lot of emphasis on luck, but I do feel like I'm a pretty lucky person, but I'm going to bring that on with my positivity. I have days, I have weekends, where I'm going to tell you I lose a hell of a high five figures sometimes, and I've had more days where I won that though, but I do have them. I'm still going out to eat a steak dinner at night. I'm not going to dwell on it, just part of it is. I think, positivity is very, very important to have in life. Eliminate those negative people, those cynical people. Eliminate them. 

01:26:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I love that. I love that advice. Finally, we'll end here, Bill. If you could go back five years and talk to a previous version of yourself, what advice would you give to your former self? 

01:26:21 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
I'd like to go back 10. 

01:26:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Sure, we'll make an exception for you. 

01:26:25 - Bill Krackomberger (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, I'd like to go back 10. I'd like to go back. My mom passed four years ago, my dad's six. Matter of fact, they passed on the same exact day. It's amazing In August, and I'd like to say in August. I'd like to say life is short. Spend as much time as you can with your family. It's real important to have holiday times coming up right now. 

01:26:48
Thanksgiving, Christmas, Very big in my family. My mother always had decorations up the tree up make sure she did things. I even actually got older and I said Mom, you're 67, now you're 68. Let me pay someone to do everything. She had to do it meticulously. 

01:27:04
And even holiday time, sitting down for that Thanksgiving meal, having the games on in the background and stuff that might have been wrong. Maybe turn the games on mute, put Christmas music on, but have the games on. You want to have a game? Maybe turn the games on mute, put Christmas music on, but have the games on. You want to have a game? I have the game on. But I think spending that time with your. We don't have children, but my wife and I, and that's just a choice we've made from a young age. But I would want to spend time with your family and your friends, your kids, and don't focus so much on gambling all the time. Have that other time in your life where you want to learn things. I'll tell you what. 

01:27:44
I have a friend. I have a guy in Scranton Pennsylvania, real tough guy, that told me listen to me, ask your mom everything right now, while you can. That was the most valuable information for me For a year and a half. I always made sure when I was at my mom's I would find out things. In that year and a half I had no idea how they struggled as kids you know living like they lived in the Bronx, you know, in a housing project and struggled to make better lives for their kids. I learned more things from my mom before she passed that I could ever think of learning in the 69 years before her life. Ever asking questions, I loved it. I really did. I think that's good. Ask questions, Find out about how your mom and dad met, how your grandparents met, how they came to this country. Both of my sides did not speak English on both sides, so you learn those things that I never knew. So spend as much time as you can with your family, especially holiday times. I think it's a good thing to do. 

01:28:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Bill, it was a pleasure having you on and chatting today. Yeah, just really good picking your brain on a lot of this stuff and we have a lot of similarities. I know you're older than me, but the origin stories I know. Me and my wife met when we were young as well, chosen not to have kids, so kind of going down the same path as you as well. So it was a pleasure having you on today. For all you out there who enjoyed this episode, smash that like button down below. Follow Bill on Twitter at Cr wins k-r-a-c-k. We'll put it down in the description below. Check out his youtube channel as well, crack wins, and we'll also link that in the description below. We'll be back next week with another episode. Until then, good luck with your bets. Peace out everyone. Thank you.