00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Welcome to Circles Off, episode number 182, part of the Hammer Betting Network and presented by Pinnacle Sportsbook. I'm Rob Pizzola in studio alone today, and today's episode is going to be a little bit different Maybe that's an understatement. It's going to be a lot different. There's no interviews happening today, no debates, no conversation with a co-host, no deep dive into betting strategies or any market mechanics. It's just me and I'm talking to you directly. 

00:32
This might be the most personal episode I've ever done in any content. I don't know if I'll ever do another like this, but I feel the need to do it, not because I have anything to prove, but because I think this podcast has become more than just sports betting for me. It's a space where I can be transparent, not just about my work but also about my life, and we're over 180 episodes into this now, and part of the allure of doing this podcast for me every week is having an outlet where I can talk to people. I can speak openly to the audience you people who've been listening here week after week and trusting that I'm not leading you astray, mostly without any judgment. So this is going to be part therapy, part reflection, and maybe even a little entertaining along the way. Come on let's go. 

01:26
You think I'm going to come on here and put one of the Aussies in the elite tier, I'd vote for Rob of 25,000. I wouldn't vote for you, I can basically just cheat and get the same bets that they're getting. It's weird because you can also pay your bills at the same place where you bet. I mean you're a short guy what? 

01:48 - Zack Phillips (Announcement)
This guy talks a lot of trash. He's talked a lot of trash about me, rob, a lot of people in the community, but he's refusing to show his face, clouting yourself as a pretty good NFL gambler. 

01:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I thought you were an idiot. Take testing, testing. I'm a cuck. One, two, three, four Aussies. Going head to head with the Aussies. That's what I grew up for. And I said get him Kirk. And they call me a mean-spirited name. I don't hang out with him. The Toronto Maple Leafs at 14 to 1, staring me dead in the face. 

02:14 - Zack Phillips (Announcement)
I'm already getting uh. You know a lot of uh, a lot of a lot of early. This could be the best circles off episode we've ever. 

02:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's ever been done welcome back into the studio. I'm going to take you into a bit of a journey, a deep dive into my personal life, my current state of mind and the ever evolving landscape of my thoughts and feelings. Now don't get me wrong. I want to clear this up right away. I'm not depressed. At one point in I was. I know what that feels like. 

02:45
I started betting at a very early age. It's hard to explain how frustrating it feels to be so passionate about sports, to know every stat, every player, every game and yet still struggle with betting on them. I was a huge sports fan, but no matter how much I studied or, as the young kids would say, how much time I spent in the lab, I felt like I could never get it right. The more I lost, the more I questioned myself how could I be so bad at something I love so much? It wasn't just about the money. It was about my identity and my pride. I felt like I was letting down, not just myself, but everyone around me who had faith in me, and it got really dark at times. But there was one thing that helped me make it through Music. Music became my escape, my comfort when I heard lyrics that resonated with me and what I was going through. It felt like I wasn't alone in those types of situations. It gave me strength to keep going, to fight through the tough times when it came to betting and to find a different way. So if you're in a similar space, know that you're not alone, and sometimes the things that seem like an escape whether it's music, friends maybe just taking a step back altogether can help you find your way back to a better place. 

04:10
Now I'm not sitting here on the brink of despair nowadays. Instead, I find myself in a fascinating, albeit tumultuous, albeit tumultuous phase where I often think and ponder what's next for me, and it's a question that frankly keeps me awake at night sometimes. Let's start with something that's very present in my life right now, and the topic of this podcast a lot of times which is just simply sports betting. Once upon a time, sports betting was my passion the thrill of the game, the adrenaline rush of predicting outcomes, the sweet smell of victory whenever a wager landed. But lately I don't feel that fire in my gut like I used to. Don't get me wrong, I still love producing content around sports betting, but the grind, the constant hustle. To me it's exhausting and, honestly, I often start to question, or often find myself questioning, whether or not it's worth it. 

05:23
There was a time when I was very driven by money. When I looked at a successful week of betting, I looked at it as a badge of honor, like a trophy to display. If you used to follow me on Twitter back in the day, you'd often see me tweeting screenshots of different bets that won. If I was successful at betting a decade ago, I would be the guy that's posting the picket calendar to Twitter every day to flaunt my winnings. I had great seasons. I left a full-time senior management role at the score because I was making more money betting on the side as a hobby. 

06:03
When I became a winning better, I was solely motivated by money. I wanted to make as much as I could as fast as I could, and I did really well. I've had seasons where I made more than I ever thought was possible. I got lucky in some spots. Particularly getting paid in crypto early on was huge for me because I was able to grow my bankroll through crypto as much as I did through sports. But luck only takes you so far, and now I don't care about wealth in the same way anymore. Like you know, I'm not passing up big opportunities, but I'm not chasing them either. I found myself just wanting to live life honestly. I also find myself thinking about making good money, but at what expense? I never used to evaluate the other side. 

06:59
I've realized that 99% of people out there are just flying blind when it comes to sports betting. They don't know the intricacies of the market. They don't put in the work that's required to win at sports betting and, honestly, it's disheartening to see so many people take unnecessary losses losses. It's a very cruel ecosystem and it's corny, but it sincerely weighs on me. I've often wondered if I'm not simply living off of the misfortunes of others. I realize how dumb that sounds. I get it. I don't think there's anybody that really thinks this way, or at least has ever mentioned it to me. So I often ask myself why do I think this way? But the reality is that I'm only successful at what I do because other people are unsuccessful, and I guess that goes for a lot of different industries. Some businesses are trying to differentiate themselves and and, in that same manner, put put others out of business. But it feels more pronounced to me in sports betting and I think about that a lot. It weighs on me. 

08:19
This year I had an incredible opportunity to speak with Jelko at Bet Bash For those who don't know Jelko, one of the biggest bettors on the planet horse racing, sports betting and that conversation was fantastic. I mean, he's nothing short of a gem. He shared insights that have stuck with me. Most notably, he recommended I read a book called Die With Zero by Bill Perkins. I got back home to Toronto I dove into that book. It truly transformed the way that I think about life. Again, cheesy, corny, but honestly it stirred something up inside of me. It was like a desire to live fully, to experience every moment, and do that rather than just accumulating wealth or accolades. In a sense, the book flipped the switch for me in that maybe that's not the best use of words I was already headed in that direction, but this was sort of the spark for me. It taught me how to value experiences over accumulation and to think about the memories I'm creating and the impact that I'm having, and it's changed the way I approach my life. I've spent hours every week for the past few months going through old Google photos and just reliving memories from the past, things that I've maybe taken for granted, things that I've forgotten about. But looking back on, I realize how lucky I was to experience certain things. And now here I am. 

10:13
I run the Hammer Betting Network, a series of YouTube channels and podcasts. I have a fantastic team that surrounds me, and with that comes pressure pressure to make our business thrive. Running the hammer has been one of the most rewarding things I've done, but it's also not without its challenges, and often I find myself rejecting ideas that don't align with my moral compass. It's frustrating. Line with my moral compass. It's frustrating. I want to build something that stands for integrity, something where every team member feels proud of what we represent. But striking that balance has been a challenge, to say the least. I feel a lot of pressure, not just to grow the business but to grow it in what I call the right way, and there have been opportunities that I've turned down because they didn't align with my values, and that's really tough. When you're building something, it's hard to say no to something that's going to accelerate the growth of the business. But I've learned that, at least to me, integrity matters more than the short-term games. 

11:35
When you run a business, you're constantly faced with decisions. Not all of them are clear-cut. It's very easy to get caught in the pursuit of growth, revenue, market share, expanding your reach as a business. There's pressure to do whatever it takes to succeed. But as that pressure builds, so does the question of at what cost? Does the question of at what cost, and I've had to ask myself more than once is this the right choice? Will this decision make me proud in the long run, or will it simply look good on paper in the short term? But that also flies directly in the face of what I'm tasked to do as the CEO of the hammer. 

12:25
For example, let's think about marketing for a second. You can push a product in so many different ways. You could take a more aggressive, maybe even manipulative approach, the kind that plays on people's fears or their insecurities, and you can get results fast from that. It's a tried, tested and true model. I've seen others do it, especially in the sports betting space. You probably know which brands I'm talking about right now, where their talent, either knowingly or unknowingly, thinks that they have an edge on sports betting, when they clearly do not. But for me, I couldn't shake the feeling that this wasn't what I want to be known for. I don't want to deceive people or prey on people's weaknesses. That said, we still partner with sportsbooks. It's our business model. That's just something that we have to do to keep the lights on and we try to approach that in the right way. 

13:36
Same thing goes for hiring. You can hire for skill or you can hire for choosing people that make the numbers look better but might not fit your company's culture or its values. It can be tempting, but deep down, I know that the right decision, the moral decision, is to hire for long-term vision here, to build a team that I can be proud of, even if it means slower growth or higher investment of time, upfront or not conforming to demographics Like that's another challenge to navigate in this space. I get blasted by someone on LinkedIn LinkedIn, believe it or not this week about the lack of minorities within our talent pool at the hammer and honestly, that fucking hit me really hard because it seemed like someone is questioning my character, as if I'm like a closet racist or something. 

14:33
I truly believe in hiring the right person for every job. To me, it's all about skills, qualifications and someone who aligns with our mission and our values. I also deeply believe in equal opportunity for everyone. No one should ever be overlooked based on anything other than their ability to perform the job. I want to make it clear when we're hiring, it's always about finding the best person for the role. That said, of course, I do wish we had more of a female representation, or more minority representation, more people of color on the team, but we're looking for a very specific skill set and I always prioritize the most qualified candidate, because I believe that's how we build the strongest team and deliver the best value to our community. I'm not here to hire actors. I know these conversations are very delicate and I just want to be transparent about it. I'm committed to ensuring the Hammer is a welcoming, inclusive place for everyone, regardless of your background, but the ultimate goal is always about bringing the right people on board based off of their talent and expertise, and that's something that I'll always prioritize. 

15:54
Running a content company in the sports betting space, especially when you're partnered with sports books, like I mentioned earlier, I mean that comes with its own set of challenges At the heart of it. I know that, no matter how much we try to provide value, some people will inevitably lose. It is the nature of the game. Look at some of the comments on the content that we provide on this channel. I don't know everything there is to know about sports betting, but I do know a lot. I've experienced a lot. I've worked with literally I want to stress, literally the biggest betting group in North America. 

16:40
Yet I regularly get comments on content that are so out of touch with reality that I don't even know how to respond, and it's hard for me to just accept that. But there's also a large percentage of the population that just thinks they have it all figured out, and that's why I frequently push the idea of playing for fun, especially if you don't have an edge, if you're just betting to enjoy the thrill of the game. That's one thing. But if you're serious about betting, it's crucial to approach it with discipline, with focus, understanding all the risks involved. I always remind our audience always don't bet more than you can afford to lose. And if you're not prepared to put in the work to find an edge, maybe consider enjoying the game without the pressure of betting on it, because at the end of the day, it's about responsible enjoyment and that's something I want to keep at the forefront of our message. 

17:50
With that said, it feels like a lot of times it falls on deaf ears, I will say. Every now and then I get a DM on Twitter from someone telling me that I said something or something I shared helped them turn things around in their sports betting journey and, honestly, those messages hit me harder than anything else. To know that my advice whether it's about betting strategy or mindset or just being smart with your bankroll has made a real difference in someone's life, it's humbling. Honestly, that legitimately means more to me than anything else. There's no better feeling than knowing you've played a part in someone's success or even just given them the confidence to keep going. Those messages keep me motivated to keep pushing forwards, to keep sharing what I've learned and to keep striving to provide value to what I think is an incredible community that we've built. It's why I do what I do. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who's ever reached out. Your words mean a lot to me. 

19:12
Some of you who might follow me on social media might be asking yourself why is Rob such an asshole? Then, if you follow me on my regular Twitter account and here's the thing my online persona, my interactions they often lead to friction. If we look at a recent example like take my ongoing conflict with Simon Hunter as an example. There are people who think that there's some hidden agenda behind my criticisms. Maybe there's a part of me that feels triggered by his persona, especially after he publicly insulted me. I can be petty like that. It's not something I'm proud of, but it's real. I get painted as a jealous asshole. I get it. People see my opinions or reactions. They don't always align with what they expect, but the reality is I've always had good intentions. 

20:19
What bothers me the most is the lack of authenticity that is so prevalent, especially in the sports betting world. This industry has a ton of influence and with that comes a huge moral responsibility. Content creators in the sports betting space, myself included, have to be real with our audiences. It's dangerous when people are lying or exaggerating to sell a product or to make themselves look better. That can have a lasting impact on someone's life. Think about that for a second. A lasting impact on someone's life, and that's something that I cannot stand. People trust me, they trust us in this space, and they should, but they should also know we're telling the truth, even when it's uncomfortable to do so. 

21:26
It's frustrating because I don't want to come off as someone trying to tear others down. I just want to hold myself and everyone else to a higher standard. We all owe it to our audiences to be honest, transparent and real. Anything less is a disservice to everyone involved. It's tough in the sports betting space. Sometimes it feels like you're walking a fine line. You're trying to instill a positive message, to help people understand how to bet, how to bet responsibly, to approach it with the right mindset. 

22:05
But it's hard. The reality is, when you speak up, especially about what's wrong or misleading, it comes across in a negative light. Is it wrong to call out other people who aren't being real with their audiences? Should I just stay quiet? I don't want to be the guy who's always pointing fingers or criticizing others, but what if no one else does it? What if someone else is taking advantage of others and I sit back and I don't say anything? I have a platform. Isn't there a responsibility to make things better, even if it's uncomfortable? I'm constantly questioning whether or not I'm doing the right thing, but in the end, I know that my focus has to be on offering value, transparency and responsible betting advice. Sure, it will ruffle some feathers, but as long as I'm staying true to my core values, I will always keep pushing forward with that. It's just about finding that balance. Keep pushing forward with that. It's just about finding that balance and, to be clear, I would expect people to do the exact same thing to me. I value that feedback, even when it might seem like I don't. I read the YouTube comments every week. I read my DMs. All of this feedback is important. 

23:35
I have a lot of disdain for Simon Hunter. I've been in this space long enough to know exactly what's going on there. It's crystal clear that he is both a tout and a mover, probably for some big bettors in the industry as well, and that's how he makes his living and that's fine and I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with someone making money in sports betting. You do what you got to do. What bothers me is how he does it. He bets opinions for other people and passes them off as his own after the numbers have already moved. How do I know this? Because I've been around the block for long enough to see through the bullshit. It's not hard to spot, when someone's trying to pull the wool over your eyes, whether it's the ridiculous stories about being in an NFL draft room telling teams who to pick about, giving runners duffel bags with $5,000, or like the weekly discussions about betting lines that have never existed in the market. It's all easy to see if you've been in this game for a while, and I've been in this game for a long time. 

24:46
When Chad Millman asked Simon Hunter why Sharps like a certain game, simon's response is say it all Instead of taking a step back and admitting he doesn't know. Simon's response is say it all Instead of taking a step back and admitting he doesn't know. He concocts these irrational, over-the-top cases that are so far removed from reality and how an actual sharp thinks about sports betting. It's not just misleading, it is fucking insulting to the people who do know the game and put in real work. I get it. Not everyone sees it, but I've been around long enough. I've experienced this game long enough to know when I am being sold a bunch of crap. And Simon Hunter is a master of that. 

25:32
And it's not just Simon. He happens to be the current trigger point for me, but there have been plenty of others in the past, whether that be Spread Investor, bender Wins, philly Godfather, I have never not been able to be vocal about these things. It's innate. I can't help myself. I've always been someone who calls it like I see it. Maybe it's the way I'm wired, but when I see something that doesn't sit right, I don't hold back. It's my nature to speak up. Some people might tell me keep your opinions to yourself, stay out of the drama. That's not who I am. There are people who are capable of doing that. I am not capable of doing that. If I think someone's being dishonest, misleading or just flat out wrong, I will call them out. I do this with my own friends. It's not about being a troublemaker. It's about accountability. 

26:38
This space has too much influence, too many people who are willing to take advantage of other people, especially when they think nobody is watching, and I don't care if it ruffles feathers. It's not about popularity anymore. For me, it's about making sure that the people who are truly trying to get better are not getting fed bullshit and honestly, I don't think that will ever change. It's just part of me. I can't ignore what I see. I won't stay silent if it's something that is off. Maybe it's not always the easiest path, but it's the one that I've chosen and at the end of the day, I can live with that decision, something that has changed, though. 

27:26
I mentioned this off the top. I used to care a lot about wealth. I used to chase it relentlessly. That desire has faded. Instead, I found joy in giving back. Now. I've donated to causes that resonate with me a lot in recent years. I find it very fulfilling to make an impact in someone's life. I've had random people reach out asking for donations for personal battles that they're facing. For the first time I really embrace that. Maybe you know I thought about this a lot and maybe I'm just searching for validation, kind of a sense of self-worth, but it feels good to contribute and to be part of something larger than myself. And I only mention it because it's just like a complete 180 in life over the past few years. 

28:32
Looking back, I realized that I've been blessed with some incredible luck along this betting journey. I was undercapitalized during my peak seasons. Those were the years I made the most substantial gains. Now I'm in a different spot. The competition's fierce. I'm not scared to say it. I've lost some of my edge over time. That's just naturally going to happen. The strategies I once thrived on have evolved. I find myself adapting to new methodologies, but they don't excite me the way that they used to. I miss the thrill of the problem-solving aspect of sports betting a lot. Sure, I can still win on major markets. I can tackle game day hockey like a pro better. But there's a part of me that wonders if all this will change again in the future. I no longer work with the biggest groups anymore. I choose to keep my operations more tight-knit. I fill my own bets. Now I never really share these stories publicly but since this is an open forum, at my peak I would have had a lot of money in play on any given day. A lot of money. 

30:00
And here's what a lot of people may not understand about trying to fill large positions. You may like a hockey game at plus 100. Maybe you think the fair price in the game is minus 120, just as an example. But when you're looking to fill a large bet size, you don't get to fill it all at plus 100. Most people they can fill their entire bet size by just logging into one sportsbook clicking that plus 100. They're good to go. When you're starting to really expand and bet at scale, you will hit some plus 100. You'll fill some at minus 105. Hell, you might even fill some at minus 115. And when all is said and done, your average price is minus 110. So you've taken a four and a half percent edge, you've reduced it down to just over 2% and you have a ton of money in play on that, and when you're betting a sport like hockey, the variance can be extremely cruel at times. 

31:04
The last season of me betting at that capacity was two years ago, and some of the swings in that season were incredibly violent. Now I want to make it abundantly clear it's very important I always bet within my limits always. I'm not going to go broke because I practice proper bankroll management. When your bankroll is fairly large and it comes from new found wealth though, wealth that maybe you didn't have five years ago it actually takes a huge toll on you when you have a pronounced losing streak, like I went from betting $100 a game at one point to having five figures a game in a very short period of time. It's really hard to get used to that. That hockey season a couple years ago was unlike any other. Usually my chart over the course of a season is up and to the right, you know. You really don't see any violent swings. That was as violent of an up and down as a season could go. I lost an entire season's worth of profits in February in four days. I won it all back in a two-week stretch a month later. Crazy stuff. 

32:24
Some people are built for those swings I kind of am, in a sense, because I've survived the crypto ups and downs, but at some point it just did a number on me. I'd be out for dinner with my wife. I'd see a game on screen in the background, just be completely fixated on it. The waiter brings you like a complimentary dessert. It doesn't matter, I just lost an overtime game for, you know, 25k. In the grand scheme of things it's just money. But in those moments it doesn't feel like that. It's like your mind is consumed by the loss and nothing else matters. It changes your perspective really does. You start to question what really matters, what you're willing to risk, but you push forward because that's what you do when you've survived the ups and downs before. The question is how long can you keep going before those swings catch up to you? And it's never as simple as it looks from the outside Not for me anyways. There are people who handle this stuff really well. I'm not one, and that was really the start of losing my passion for sports betting. I was still winning a lot and I am still winning a lot right now, but it was the start of this decline in passion for me and it prompted me to start focusing on other metrics Rather than pure ROI or dollars won. I started to focus more on ROI per time spent. 

34:04
Not long after the end of that season, on a personal level, my friend, alan Dinkinson Dink passed away, and that was the end of August 2022. And losing Alan Dinky it hit me harder than I expected. Alan and I were more than just fellow bettors. We were friends. We talk about everything betting life, the ups the downs. There was a real understanding between us, a kind of camaraderie it's just really hard to find. We ended up on a lot of same sides. We shared victories together, but we also shared those brutal quiet moments when things weren't going our way. 

35:01
And when I heard the news that Dink had passed away I won't lie, it threw me off quite a bit. I talked to him the week before. He was in good spirits. He was in hospice. I knew this was coming, but there was this heavy feeling that I couldn't shake. It's weird how someone can have such an impact on your life, even though we lived on different ends of North America, we walked very different paths. But in this space, in sports betting, it's tough to find people who truly get it, and Dink was one of those people for me. 

35:46
And now there's this void and, I'll admit it, I lost myself a little bit. The days felt longer for me. The wins they didn't feel as sweet, the losses they hit differently. It it wasn't just the numbers or the strategy. It it was the absence of someone who understood what this really felt like on a day-to-day basis, day in and day out. And dink wasn't just a betting partner, he was part of the fabric of my journey. He took me under his wing when he didn't have to. Every time I went to Vegas he would pick me up from the airport in his little red Kia and take me to his favorite Italian restaurant. No matter how many times I told him that I live in an Italian community and my parents are Italian always wanted me to go to this Italian restaurant, try the food with him and without him it felt like something was missing, like the drive wasn't quite there anymore. 

36:53
And it's funny how grief works, how it sneaks up on you when you least expect it. You try to push through, but it lingers and eventually you realize it's changed you in a way. I'm definitely not the same now as I was before Hockey season was coming up in a month, the thought of not interacting with Dink on a day-to-day basis anymore. In a way it felt wrong, but also, in a way, that's okay, because I can carry the lessons that he taught me and the friendship that we shared and hopefully find my way back to being the best version of myself, as a better as a person, because that's what he would have wanted, and maybe I'll rediscover this passion. Maybe it's just a chapter in a more extensive narrative, who knows? But amidst all those thoughts, one silver lining I've found is the connections I've made with others in the betting community. I've formed relationships with fellow bettors, people I would have never imagined I would be close to a decade ago. The camaraderie is refreshing. It's inspiring. 

38:15
In the last month, in the last month, I spent time with Mike Craig in State College. Mike Craig, he was a guest of ours on Circles Off Before we even had our YouTube channel. It was audio only. We had an absolute blast. Our wives met each other at State College. This is crazy to think. How would I end up interacting with these bettors? China Maniac, who we've had on the show. I talk to China regularly now. I didn't even know who he was until we interviewed him on Circles Off. People were reaching out to me. You got to get China on. You got to get this guy on. Now we chat weekly. We don't even have any overlap in our work, but we talk. 

39:09
I have rekindled long ago strained relationships with people, People who used to roast me on Twitter back in 2014. Today we're on speaking terms. We share experiences with one another. These are people who hated me a decade ago. Rufus, another friend I've met through sports betting. I check in with Rufus every month to see how things are going. We talk about life. We share experiences. It means a lot to me. Spanky calls me regularly on his drives home. Call me on his drive home hey Rob, how's it going? I once called him the bane of my existence. The first ever conversation I had with Spanky, I spent an hour talking to him about how much I dislike him. Now we are friends. We talk regularly, not just about betting but about life. I meet up with bettors while I'm on vacation. I have dinners with industry peers, have dinners with industry peers. All of these interactions remind me of the true essence of our shared passion. They make everything feel worthwhile. 

40:29
As I wrap up this episode this week, I want to make it abundantly clear I'm not having a mental breakdown. I'm very sound in mind. In fact, I'm probably thinking more clearly than I ever have at any point in life. Life is good. Me and my wife recently bought our dream house. I feel very grateful. I travel, I'm golfing, I'm living a life that I've always wanted to live. But my mind is a busy place and it's always contemplating the future, always pondering what's next. So, to our listeners, our watchers, our viewers, as I share these thoughts, know that I'm navigating what I will call this midlife crisis with hope and optimism. 

41:18
We all go through phases of introspection, and that's okay. Mine just happens to be in front of a camera, or you're hearing it on your drive to work or home from work or whatever, and that's okay. It's a journey. It's filled with twists and turns. It's filled with uncertainty. It's filled with a lack of clarity. I appreciate everyone who listened today. Thank you for allowing me this moment to share my thoughts, my struggles and my aspirations with you. Remember, this is life. It's a continuous circle. Wherever you find yourself within the circle, embrace it Before we wrap up some sad news. 

41:57
Embrace it Before we wrap up some sad news. Tough to follow, zach. But, producer Zach, this had to be your last day. Circles off. Yeah, what a one to go out on. Eh, what a one to go out on. Zach is still going to be with us at the Hammer, but he got an opportunity that he can't pass up on. That conflicts with some of our recording time. So, starting next week, the giant Jacob Grimenia will be in studio here with us for Circles Off. But got any parting words? 

42:30 - Zack Phillips (Announcement)
No kind of sad actually. 

42:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's tough. You weren't the original producer, you weren't the og. Jason was the original producer when it was audio. Only then we brought in zach a couple years ago. Zach was, uh, big time losing sports. Better put it lightly to put it lightly. Yeah, and you're doing pretty well for yourself now not bad, yep, yep, yeah. 

42:56 - Zack Phillips (Announcement)
No, it's sad I. I didn't think I was going to get like really sad. Obviously, the nature of this episode probably pushed in that direction, to be fair, but yeah. 

43:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Appreciate you, zach, you do. Thanks to everyone who tuned in today. Obviously, very different kind of episode. Sorry for the complete downer today, but yeah, just been a lot of things weighing on me and one of the advantages of having this platform is being able to say this stuff and knowing that there's other people out there who experience similar things. So until next time, take care of yourselves. Let's keep the conversations going. Thank you for tuning in Peace out. We'll see you next time on Circles Off.