00:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Welcome to Circles Off presented by Underdog. I'm Rob Pizzola. To my right, jason Cooper takes by Jay in studio with me today because he's a subject matter expert in the Twitter spaces which we're going to talk about with our guest today. With our guest today, I do want to clear the air. This has been the first time in a long time that I've done a Circles Off interview episode. They will come back in a higher rotation, let's say Going forwards took a little bit of a break from that as football season was winding down, but I do have some big episodes lined up coming up over the next couple of months Some guest episodes. We'll do q and a's again, like we typically did before, and I got some other ideas as well of things to incorporate as well. So if you tuned in regularly for the thursday episodes in the past, don't worry, we will churn out a bunch of those going forwards. Um kind of just needed it to be fresh, to get back into the mix as well. If you haven't checked out Underdog Just yet, make sure you do so Now. Typically in the past we were partnered with Sharp Sportsbooks here on Circles Off Underdog more of a recreational product, but I know a lot of you have checked them out for the first time Because I've been getting that feedback Through our DMs on Twitter. So appreciate everyone who's checked out Underdog. 

01:26
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01:57
Again, if you're looking to pass the time, watch some NBA at night. Baseball coming around the corner is a really fun product to use, especially in group settings as well. If you're playing with your buddies, you can really get some excitement out of that. So check out Underdog down in the link below. Our guest this week may be familiar to a lot of people out there. He is a sports bettor specializing in arbitrage in the space, made over $200K last year in profit, with real P&Ls to show for it. Real P&Ls to show for it. He's mathematical background, studying to follow in the footsteps of Steve Fezzik and Plus. 

02:36
EV Analytics as an actuary, he's also the host of the late night spaces. That happened on Twitter. 

02:47 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Elf, great of you to join us and that was a perfect introduction. Uh, rob, thank you for that. I'll have happy to be here. So, yeah, awesome, excited to get going yeah, we're pretty excited about this. 

02:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um, let's start with your origin story, elf. Okay, how did you first get into sports betting? 

03:03 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I think my origin story is pretty much similar to any sharps that's ever existed. You see the ads on TV, the DraftKings Fandle ads. Broke College Kid, I have no money to my name. You see the ads bet $5, win $150 in bonus bets. You see these ads on TV and you think it's too good to be true. Right, how could you possibly just get a free 150? And you know little to my knowledge. I went on fandle I bet five dollars and I would. 

03:33
I got 150 in bonus bets and I was like, wow, this is, this is like crazy. Like I have 200, I have like 150 dollars my name now right and back. Then you could literally just get the bonus bet and just bet it on something, cash it out, and then it was like liquid. So yeah, pretty much my origin story was converting the bonus bets and I did reference that Fandle conversion. That was like a 100% conversion, but I did not optimize the promos efficiently as a new bettor. But that was my introduction to everything. 

04:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, that's kind of how I started, I guess. But yeah, did you just figure that out yourself, or do you have friends? 

04:11 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
that were doing something similar. That told you about it. Uh, no, I mean, you just see the ads everywhere on tv like you, literally, just like you can't escape, you cannot escape the sportsbook ads nowadays. It is, uh, currently my least favorite thing about watching sports. The little amount of sports that I do watch you can't escape it. So I did figure out that one trick, which obviously is not in existence anymore, with the bonus bets, but I had. I mean, all my friends in college were gambling, degenerate gambling, like I have never degenerate gambled at all. But yeah, we could touch on that. 

04:39
But that's how I kind of got myself introduced, yeah. 

04:46 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, and you mentioned you don't watch sports. There's a lot of people were shocked about you didn't even realize that luka donchic got traded. You're betting on him to get uh, or so you're betting on lebron to get 10 plus points. Um, but so as someone who doesn't bet on or doesn't watch sports, sorry, like what was your kind of aha moment when you came, when you became like a sports better to someone who's actually relatively sharp? Was it just through arming? Or was there like some form of a moment where you realized, hey, I can actually make some money doing this thing? 

05:04 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
yeah, I mean I'll, uh, I'll give a ton of credit to alex monahan and on jim, that's like pretty much how I got my start into, I guess, sharp gambling. Um, I started once I converted all the bonus bets. I built up a bankroll probably like two thousand dollars like pure profit. Um, I have been like I've been like I'll send some action free rolling casinos like the whole way through my journey so far. Um, I started out converted the bonus bets not super efficiently. Uh, I thought I saw alex monahan post a video about how I made like a hundred thousand dollars ev betting and you know there's a lot of there's a lot of truth and uh like fairy tale in that videos which we could touch on. 

05:44
But that is pretty much how I started. I started doing top-down betting. I was hammering just like off-market props on the soft books and uh got like super limited. But yeah, that's how. That's how I started and I didn't really that was. That was like 2023, that was like 2023 and then December December 2023 was kind of like my breakout month, but that's that's how I got started. So I was doing promo conversion, top-down betting from software notifications and then and then December and we could, I guess, touch on that. 

06:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah. So what so? What changed in December 2023? 

06:19 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
December 2023 was when I decided to start live arbing and it was much, much easier back in December when kind of the software first came, like software first started existing to like, I guess, live arm efficiently and I didn't really know what I was doing, like what's sharp side, what's not? Like I was familiar with top-down betting, obviously, but like live is a completely different ball game. Like if you're trying to live ev bet, it is like people just say take the, take the offside. I'm telling you it is not that simple. Live. Like I've been doing this for a while now, it's not that simple. 

06:56
But yeah, that's kind of when that changed and I was just live arbing december and like pre-match arbing and my limits were not as bad like giraffe kings was not like they're terrorists nowadays, giraffe kings, but they were not as bad. Back in december 23, in my experience and um, I made my that was my first month like really really taking everything serious and I made 25 000 that month and it was like amazing and that's kind of like when I uh first started posting on social media as well and I I was part of that. The odds jam like marketing promotion, so that's kind of how I built like a initial name for myself as outfit. 

07:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, so you mentioned a third party software. Yeah, so, so, or I don't know if exactly that that's the way you termed it, but I deemed it to be third party software. I always just assumed, because I watched some of your content before, even prior to Twitter spaces. I just assumed you were putting a sharp book up on one screen and you had the rest of your books open and you were hitting them that way. But you're actually leveraging an outside tool. 

07:55 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, Now I don't want to like reveal which tools I use nowadays, but I'm using like three separate tools at the same time. I have six monitors that I have and I have all the books open as well. So I'm very cracked out. And this is all during the show as well. 

08:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know. I actually don't even know how you do that so. So I have lots of questions to ask you in related to that but let's go through like what does your typical betting process look like on a daily or weekly basis? Like are you taking nights off? Let's say you also, if you're doing a Twitter spaces, has that affected your ability to ARB in real time? Can you walk us through that? 

08:34 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, I mean I'm pretty locked in to my setup. I usually like clock in around like five, five o'clock, like right after like a typical day like work. I'm like clocked in as soon as I get home or when I work from home I'll just hop over to my setup, um, and I'll just hit like anything like pre-match stuff. I have different strategies now. I got a lot of different strategies pre-match nowadays, and then once the sports are up, I'm pretty much like live, live betting. So I'm pretty clocked in from five to like midnight. 

09:02
Like it's pretty much like a seven hour shift, I guess, with the betting and like I don't even really see it as work. Like I'm always like I'm like always so cracked out I used to be a gamer as a kid so I need like constant stimulation. So like I have the show going and I'm like I got all my software running up top so if like there's a low on the show, I'll hit some bets and then I'll go back to the show and just kind of keep doing it. But yeah, that's my process, but it keeps me entertained, it keeps me busy and like I love it. It doesn't really feel like work at all. So it's cool. 

09:30 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
You mentioned that your work. You're studying to become an actuary, or you are an actuary now. Are you done with that process yet You're still studying to become one. 

09:40 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, it's a super, super long process to actuarial path and the tests are like very, very difficult. So I'll like briefly share the process. 

09:48
So there are seven exams to get licensed as an actuary and each exam takes like four or five months to study for, and I was someone who's never, ever struggled in my entire life with math exams ever and these tests are the most brutal thing that I have ever experienced in my entire life and any licensed actuary will tell you the same thing. Even plus EV analytics, it takes like most actuaries are working and studying full time. That is their job, right? I passed the first three exams in college. I was hired right away my senior year like at a big insurance company, and the fourth exam, mass one, took me three attempts to pass. I failed the first time I failed. I expected to fail, but I'm like I was not prepared for it and I got it's. It's like a six to pass. It's a six and the pass mark is like a 60 percent and the pass rate varies anywhere between like 40 and 60%, depending on the sitting and the subset of people taking these tests are all math majors who have passed three actual exams already. 

10:51
So the people taking these tests are very intelligent, very committed, very focused and only 40 to 60% are passing. These tests are very difficult. The first time I took mass one, I failed. I got a five, barely failed. Second time I took it, I was so confident a five barely failed. Second time I took it, I was so confident I told all my co-workers I'm like, oh, I definitely passed. Like don't worry about it, like I'm 100 sure I passed. Failed it again, got another five and I was so embarrassed because I told, I told everyone I was like sure I passed. I was so embarrassed but, uh, passed it the third time I took it. So it was absolutely brutal and I'm going to start studying for Mass too soon. I haven't even started studying yet and I guess you guys would understand why you guys follow my life. But yeah, I do plan on getting my license. I did not work this hard graduate, do all this work to not get my license. There's only three more tests to get my license and Mass 1 is notoriously difficult. So I'm gonna. 

11:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm gonna do my best, yeah yeah, I'm actually really interested in that because, yeah, I think, um, I can relatively estimate your age. You don't have to say anything in regards to that but I think a lot of people um your age made 200k sports betting over one calendar year. Their commitment to pursuing education would probably be, you know, let's say, they would drop it. This is a highly mathematical field for you, something that you're gonna have to study towards what? 

12:15 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
why is it that you want to continue pursuing that it's a matter of like pride and passion for me. Like I, I didn't work my entire life, 23 years, studying math, like rigorous math, to just, I guess, like throw it all away to pursue gambling. And I mean like content as well, like I'm making you know more from content than my actuarial job as well, so it's a very difficult thing, but for me it's a matter of like, pride and principle. 

12:41
Like I want that actuarial license, like I think it would do a lot of good for my brand as well. Like, oh, this kid's like a licensed actuary. Like that's very, very difficult to to get. So it's something that I want to like at least pursue. And you know, like there's a I'll say this like the tests are very difficult, but there's something in life about like having something to like, look forward to like, oh, I want to achieve this like a, like a path. Um, it's just something to work like forward to. Like with the gambling stuff, like it's kind of just like a process. You know, like I log in, however much I make that night is however much I make, and uh, that's just kind of that, whereas, like with the actual exams, you're kind of like achieve, you're like, you're like on a path, right. So it's different, it's a different feeling, but for me it's like a matter of pride. 

13:24 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I guess that's that's really it, yeah yeah, and one, one of the things you mentioned there was how obviously you're in this mathematical field and it's funny because there's a lot of relationship between actually being an actuary and and sports betting, right, as we've seen with plus tv analytics. Do you ever think, like right now, your current process you mentioned it. I don't want to give way too much, but you said you're live arbing um, do you ever think you'll get to a point where you're going to apply this actuary, this actuarial knowledge, this math background, into maybe starting to build your own models and that sort of thing, as you're in kind, of your future of sports betting? Or you haven't even thought that far ahead just yet? 

13:55 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I think definitely at some point it's something that I will do. I think, like, probably during mlb season or something like that I could probably try to tackle like a soft market, like something, something small, I don't know, like like a player prop turnovers or something like that. Like, just start small and just play around with it, right. But um, like, as you guys know, you can't like scale arving uh to like a super high extent. So, um, yeah, I haven't, I haven't applied any actual, any actual math to my process at all. It's just kind of like utilizing tools and um technology, uh. But yeah, it's definitely possible. I'm not going to say like yes or no, it's just kind of depending on, I guess, where everything takes me. 

14:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you mentioned be uh having trouble scaling uh rb right. So I assume you faced a lot of limits and bans from different sports books because of that. Like, how do you deal with that? Is it just going to get it to a point where you run out of oats? 

14:46 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
yeah, absolutely, of course I. I mean every time you lose an hour. It's like rob. It never gets easier. I'm telling you, it's like a knife it's fucking painful, no matter what. 

14:55
It's painful, no matter what it's awful, I mean I've, I've been, I've been doing this like way shorter period than you have, and it doesn't get easier. Losing an out, losing an edge oh my god, like it sucks. So, yeah, I mean, I'll eventually, I'll eventually run out of outs, but there are a lot of uh, there are a lot of other ways to get down. Now, if you're not to utilize exchanges and uh, betting partners and connections, it's just kind of it's really about who you trust uh, and I don't trust anyone not not a single person rob I mean in your line of work with the spaces. 

15:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I can totally understand why. 

15:32 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
By the way, yeah, no, I literally I don't care who you are like I do not trust you. 

15:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm just telling you that right now like on air, so that that's a yeah, that's, that's a thing um, a lot of bettors not myself, but a lot of bettors, I think would look down on arbing as like a low skill way to make money. How do you respond to people who say that? 

15:55 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I don't know. I mean, I get like everyone will always have their opinion on something. I think it's like it's funny, I guess, if you are an originator and like, why do you really care that much? I guess, like you don't want all that steam coming in like we, probably the arbors will probably kill your accounts much, much faster. I guess that would be a reason to hate the arbors. But I think, just like accepting arbors as a part of the ecosystem would make more sense. But rather than just like shit talking, all of them, like people are. Some people are risk averse and you know if it's on them that they want to make less money they don't want to do all that variance like. 

16:31
That's on them, right, that's on me and you know I fully accept that. So I'm fully aware. 

16:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um yeah I, I don't know, I don't really understand it, but I, uh, I heard you on a space a few weeks ago. I can't remember which specific one it was. It might have actually been the Steve Fezzik one, maybe I'm misremembering, but you actually talked about how, when you first started Arbing, you're basically like guaranteeing profit no matter what, and you kind of have evolved your practice a little bit to take on a little bit more risk. Is there a particular reason that you've started to go that route? 

17:09 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
yeah, I mean, this is my. My bankroll is like much, much bigger than what I started with nowadays. So it's like, you know, if I hit something, that's just like way, way off, like I won't even bother harbing you, like I just live with the result, like, uh, I mean, and I also have a very, very good idea of who's sharp and who's not in certain markets. My sample size you talked about my profits, like 200K in 2024, I don't want to reveal anything. After that, I decided not to reveal anymore about my profits, but my data is worth infinitely more than that 200,000. I know who is sharp in what markets at what points in time, and that's infinitely more valuable. So that has been incorporated into my process a lot recently. 

17:55
yeah, so it's just the bankroll and my data. 

17:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. There's a famous tweet from Alex Monaghan. There's a lot of famous tweets from alex monahan, but this one, uh, people are really split on, but it was. It was the one where he shared, uh dms from someone who reached out to him and said, like I have a 50 bankroll, like what should I do? And I'm paraphrasing, but basically said don't bet, like you shouldn't be betting with this type of bankroll. And, um, I talked about this with Johnny previously on Circles Off and I agree with that for many reasons. It sounds like you actually started with, like a bankroll of pretty much close to nothing, like a really small amount. I wonder, if you look back and you have regrets on using those bonuses at small amounts, at losing potentially accounts when you were betting smaller? Like when you look back on things, would you have uh, potentially paused and waited till you actually had a larger bankroll before you started betting? 

18:54 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
oh, oh, a larger bankroll. No, I wouldn't have like waited till I, just a larger bankroll. But I will say this that tweet that you're referencing with I I agree and disagree with with Alex Monahan, because if you do come in and say your bankroll is $50, it's not $50 because that means you haven't optimized the new user promos on every book. So if your bankroll is $50, if you do a little bit of research, it's actually probably $2,000 to $4,000 if you really think about it right so I don't regret. 

19:25
I don't regret starting with my bankroll, what it was. I do regret cooking all my accounts um ev top down, betting on off-market props, pre-match, like. Just like thinking about it now. This is all. I know how stupid that was, like it's insane, like I probably cooked a Fanatics account and probably worth like $100 to $200 in expected value Fazola I see you cringing at that, but I literally did not know any better Fazola so I can't. That is my regret. It's a knowledge thing, so I've learned so much along the way. 

20:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But I've done the same. 

20:04 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I think we all have well yeah, I lost an account because we were doing a show, uh for progress, where we did look aheads and I would just be hitting the look heads that we taught me talking about live on air sunday night football week, like a week in advance. It's like why was I was being like 25 to 50 bucks on these things? Like why the fuck was I doing that? Like yeah, it happened. 

20:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I it happened. I mean, listen, I'll be honest, like when we got regulated gaming in Ontario, that was a very exciting moment. It's just like wow, now all of a sudden we have like 20 new sports books we can bet into. And it's like, look how bad these books are. At pricing this stuff, like we're going to go wild. And in hindsight it's like, ah, I shouldn't have done that. Like I won on the. I even lost. You know, we talked about this on Circle Back on Monday. But I've had accounts cooked where I lost before. Like that's the biggest disgrace. Like for a pro, better to lose like 8K into an account and then be limited. Like not only did you lose, but you did it so poorly where you couldn't even disguise your action. Like those are huge mistakes. And like, yeah, you know I could tell. 

21:08 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I could tell a funny story on that, rob as well. I'll tell. I'll share it quick so I don't want to take too much time Cause I know we got a lot. But Caesar's sports book. Back in January ESPN bet had just launched legal in Massachusetts and many other states and they and many other states and they were awful at setting lines right and a lot of the live arbors were arbing the espn awful college basketball lines to caesars and they were going up so much money on espn bet and espn bet would did not limit anyone, like anyone for the first like two months of life and everyone was just puntingting their EB over to Caesars live. I was down and my unit size is not that big. I was down $10,000 to Caesars in January just de-risking on Caesars and Caesars limited all of the armors, every single one of them, and I was like this is such a stupid business practice for. 

22:03
Caesars, you need to know what your people are betting. They're de-risking off these books. Why are you limiting them? Don't you understand what this action is? They're just using you to de-risk. They're donating money to you to not hold this risk. So Caesars is my story for that, and $9,000 got limited In one month. Yeah. 

22:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, if you just held the ESPN bet side, you're laughing, oh my yeah exactly. 

22:32 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
And there are people I know who went up like $100,000 on the ESPN bet in one or two months and punted $50,000 to FanDuel and Caesars and you know they netted a lot, not $50, 50 000, but like they should have just got on espn. And, like I said earlier, you know that's on, that's on them, right, that's that's what they get for arming it, right? It's not a good strategy long term. I'm not gonna sit here and lie, but that's, we didn't know what we were doing. We're so new to this, right, like I was like two months into, I guess, like really, really sharp betting, but yeah that's life, it happens. 

23:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, from experience. Every sports better can look back on something and be like I shouldn't have done this. And it's not just one thing. There's gonna be so many things over time. So, um, that's, that's just the nature of the game. Uh, you don't know until until you know. Sometimes, um, yeah, let's shift it over to the late night twitter spaces, because this is, um, I mean, these are interesting. This has become like a. These are huge. 

23:31 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
They're huge and I just want to jump in first before we go directly to the Twitter spaces. You've done content before the Twitter spaces, uh, and I'm curious. I'm curious a little bit about that of like, why you so, for people don't know. You used to stream on kick. You were live arbing, I believe, on kick um, which is a streaming platform. Um, so just out of curiosity, before we get into the spaces, why did you stop streaming on kick? How did you start streaming on kick? And then also, what made you get back into the content creation space? 

23:56 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
oh man. So I started streaming on kick my live arbing, which is a terrible decision because on sam on sam pushed me to do it. They're like, oh, you've got to stream it so people can know and you'll get so many affiliates which is true, but I leaked so many edges live and. I also was not good. 

24:14
I watched some of my streams back and I'm like, wow, I was so bad at this. It was a terrible decision. I'm not even going to pretend, rob. You know I got so much hate for it back in the day and I didn't understand why. Like I was like, why are these guys hating on me so much? And these guys are like now I spoke with them, they're like very, very successful pros. So you know, I get it now I get it. But, um, yeah, so I you know. 

24:37
But the thing is like I love streaming, like it was great, like I had a, I had a community of people that would be in there every day. Like you know, I'm sure you guys experience as well you have viewers that watch every, every show, right, and like you build a community. That's that's the best part about uh, doing content, not not the money and yeah. So the reason why I stopped streaming was because um brett finesod actually nba greens came to me with a. I've spoken about this on spaces. It came to me with a ridiculous edge on fandle. Um, he made a hundred thousand dollars on fandle in january, um february my accounts are all getting cooked so fast, uh, and I was like this this is, I was not making as much money as I used to. 

25:18
I'm like this sucks, and brett shared his edge with me on fandle. Right, there's a very, very sensitive edge that could not I no one should be streamed to the public. But this one definitely could not be streamed to the public and we went off the grid March and we just printed all of March on our own and I made a ton of money, like a lot of money, more money than I've ever made in a month on Fandle and we had all of our accounts locked at once. On FanDuel it took like two weeks to get our accounts locked and the reason why that died was because too many people found out about that edge. Because people just talk, man, it sucks, but people just talk. And then, to put the cherry on top, we were making so much money, money. These idiots all booked a trip to arizona and airbnb to like celebrate it and while they were in airbnb, like 10, probably like 12 different accounts. 

26:13 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Oh, god, oh my gosh, yeah, that's, that's, oh 10 rob, we were betting so much money into FanDuel. 

26:22 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Same lines, many different accounts from the same house. Same IP yeah. 

26:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, not same IP. Oh, ok, so just location and different devices. 

26:34 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
But FanDuel, it was insane, like one by one, all of our accounts, one percent locked, one percent locked. It was insane. The organization on the rounding up of everyone involved. And yeah, we all got our accounts locked and everyone, my Fandle account, my personal Fandle account, is back to 10%. Now I'm the only one. Everyone else is either 5% or banned. Mine is back to 10%. I don't know why. 

27:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Maybe they just like my streams, but I'm honestly surprised that you guys even got like if you withdrew, if you even got your money because like there's a lot of money, yeah, I know, but there's lots, lots of horror stories about that because like they could easily, they could easily say you guys were multi-accounting syndicate betting whatever, which is violation of terms and service. 

27:23
So I mean, at least you got your money, because there's way worse, way worse stories than that. Um, out of curiosity, that that I assume that edge dried up. It's done. Yeah, okay, I do like to ask. Lots of people have come out in the past before and they've talked about past edges that dried up. If you're comfortable, I'd be interested in you sharing it. 

27:43 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah I don't, I can't share I. It's not my edge, it was told to me, so I can't share it. That's why, yeah, I can't do it, strike one. 

27:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I really thought you were going to, you were going to share it. 

27:56 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I really can't share it. I can't share it, no it's okay. I respect that I. 

27:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I, I like I. I have to ask the question. I have to ask the question. If I'm not asking the question, I'm not doing a proper service. Okay, so now over to Twitter spaces, which has basically become a place where I was going to say where the gambling Twitter community hashes out beefs. But it's not even Twitter anymore. It's like TikTok scammers, Instagram people, it's a collection. 

28:31 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I don't even know how to properly describe it. Well, you've been able to somehow get every single side of sports betting and like just gambling, whatever. Just the community. There's a lot of different subsections and I didn't realize that until the L spaces of how small the let's call it, the sharp community really was in accordance to the rest of the community like all these dub club guys, I didn't realize how big of a scene it was and it's and it's your spaces has somehow been able to attract all these people and put them in all all in one place at once, like I mean, last night alone, sunday night. Uh, I guess it's coming on thursday, there's yeah I think we were. 

29:04
I checked that today at noon. The space is with, uh, mickey, mickey, sean perry. There's 37 000 people who listen to that as of midday the day after. 

29:15 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I mean it's just crazy how many people have just come in the door through that space yeah, I'm checking now like I don't know how it works, but it says like 365 000 views on it. I don't know if it works, but it says like 365,000 views on it. I don't know if that's impressions or like people that just see it. 

29:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like I don't know. Yeah, that's the amount. That's the amount of people that would have scrolled past it on their timeline. 

29:34 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, so yeah, 46.3 K tuned in is what it says. So yeah that's probably more accurate, but it's crazy. 

29:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What made you start? What made you start hosting those? What made you? 

29:43 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
start hosting those. I was just bored. I was just bored Like I just wanted to talk to some people while I was betting, and I wouldn't even have my face cam on, Like you know, and it just turned like we would just be talking my friends and I while I was betting. 

30:07
But you know you've interacted with Brett and Nadu and they just talk so much shit about people that people get pissed. They'll come in and hash it out and people love that stuff and rob you. You've been a part of it. Right, like brett will talk shit to library, library will come in but bait you on and you know benson's been baited on twice now. It just grows like that. That's how it's been growing. But that's how it started, like I was just bored what? 

30:27 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
what made you turn on the camera? Just out of curiosity, like you before, because before you didn't do these with cam on. Now you decided to do it. Was it just more for recognition, kind of thing? 

30:34 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
uh, more engagement. 

30:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yep, it's more engagement when there's a camera on are you aware of how how much you bite your nails while the cat? 

30:43 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
my dad texted me. He's like you bite your nails way too much because I'm a nail biter and I'm like this man is insane man, he's like double fisting fingers. 

30:52
It's crazy man I bite my nails when I either get like nervous or don't like know what to say, which is very, very common on my spaces, because there's just so much stuff that goes on. Like I have very intelligent people on the space at all time. Like you have to be uh pretty sharp, like like people are going after each other's throats, like there's controversial characters, like I'm the host, I have to moderate these things, so there's a lot of um, it's a, it's a large balancing act that has to go on for me personally. 

31:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So yeah, but I'm a big nail biter so the first, the first space that I participated in was not yours, okay, it was, uh, omar's space. Yeah, and, to your point, I think there's this tried, tested and true formula of ways to get people in, but I got dm'd by either him or, uh, the guy that books his spaces, that's like. I can't remember who it was, but it's like so-and-so's talking shit about you and I'm like all right, I go in and then I'm arguing with somebody for 15, 20 minutes or something like that, and that's how I started with yours as well. It was a man of the library, um, mpb. That guy's a fucking idiot like there there's. So it got me into there. Now, yeah, um, I want to start with the omar thing, because he's not happy with you. 

32:16
No, he lets people know about it. He believes that you like basically took his idea and stole it and ran with it. Um, yeah, I honestly view that as the way that it's happened, but I believe you've done a much better job at cultivating engagement than he has. So I think that's kind of the way the world works. But I mean, did you consciously think about that at all? You like, wow, omer has this great idea. Maybe I'm just gonna do it and make it better. I don't know. Like, were you even aware that those spaces were happening? 

32:48 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
yeah, omar has no one else but himself to blame for my spaces taking off. I was a active participant in omar spaces all the time. Um, he did. He was covering a bet 105 story where biggie bets was like you had a scandal, he was stiffed by bet 105, he was covering that um, I'm gonna clarify, by the way, because we found out he wasn't stiff. 

33:10 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I just want to get the right information out. 

33:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There he was claiming to be stiff by bet 105. You can continue. 

33:15 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yes, okay um, he was covering that story. The next day I hosted my own spaces out of boredom. I click baited the title. Brett finds out who you covered on the show, crashed out at joey knish. Uh, I baited joey knish on the show and rob you saw that show was a great show, right it? 

33:33
was um day after that show, omar had a spaces talking about how I view bought my spaces. I stole a show. He's literally just talking shit about me the entire spaces and I'm in there listening to this guy requested as a speaker and he's telling me he can't see me. There's tech issues, um, all this stuff is going. He's not letting me speak. So I'm like this is stupid. I'm starting my own space tonight out of anger so I started my own space and it's taken off. 

34:05
So if you're not going to let people speak, then you have that risk. So that's on him. 

34:14 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
So you were able to take I don't want to say take Omar's kind of process, but you were able to catch lightning in a bottle with your spaces. What do you think is your greatest strength? That has separated yourself from Omar in making these spaces more successful than he has ever been able to do? 

34:28 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I definitely understand the gambling team way better than him as, like a sharp I don't. He doesn't understand sharp gambling at all. I'm you know, I don't. I don't want to trash Omar live on the show. I don't even really want to talk about him that much, so I'll just I'll just say like yeah, I don't know, I don't even really want to talk about it that much, so I'll just I'll just say, like I just yeah, I don't know. 

34:45 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
So how about just what do you think Like cause? You've like just even being able to build these have 1500 people concurrent live is a crazy thing to do, considering what we're talking about here. So what do you think your greatest strength is? Is it your ability to get guests? Is your ability to facilitate a conversation? What do you think your biggest strength this year? 

35:02 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, definitely ability to get guests. I allow people to tell their story, no matter who you are. I had Meezy on. He's the most controversial character. He openly admitted to stealing hundreds of thousands on the spaces. I allow people to share their story, no matter how controversial they are, and I allow people to question them right and people. The fact that people are allowed to out these things in in a public, uh setting and you know me as the host, I do my best to stay neutral, but neutral in most cases is like pretty much going against, I guess, the public and you know there's I'm kind of the villain to a lot of people. You know it sucks, but that's. That's a thankless job of hosting these spaces, but I think being able to deal with all of that and moderate it is my strength. 

35:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, I want to pick up on a bunch of bunch of stuff there, because there's a lot to get into. So, first and foremost, one of the criticisms this would be including myself included would say that by bringing on these controversial figures lots of them being scammers touts, you are giving them a platform to reach a larger audience. You yourself are talking about the amount of people like Sunday Night Space is 46K people who tuned in at some point. Do you feel a responsibility at all for the people that you give a platform? 

36:31 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
to. It's an interesting question. I would say it is. It is on them to speak their mind and the public to decide what they feel about these people. A lot of people will dig themselves their own graves. 

36:50
On my show and you guys have seen that live and I allow people to question them, to accuse them of the things they've done, and a lot of these people slip up and they will dig themselves a hole and some of them you see it as well, rob won't they will be themselves a hole and some of them to their. You know, you see it as well, rob won't they will. They will be very elusive and slippery. So it is harder for the public to decide on some of these guests than others. I think my job as the host is to give the opportunity, to give the opportunity for, I'll say, the scammer, the, the tout, whatever, and just people from the public, sharp, whatever, to air everything out in an open forum and then, as long as everything is aired out in a fair fashion, then I think I did my job as a host that's interesting. 

37:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What? 

37:41 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
it's too. 

37:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If it's too one-sided, then I fail well, well, for me, the challenge is that a lot of these, uh, a lot of the I'll call them grifters, I like the word yeah, it's a better way because you know, sometimes it's not like an outright fraud or scam or whatever. A lot of the grifters are really well spoken. Yes, and and very well spoken uh, I listened to Baccarat guy, mickey, mickey. 

38:05 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Mickey Meese. There's too many M's, but anyways. 

38:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That guy. I mean he is on point, you know, bo Wagner, with like the deflections and just like changing topics, man of the library, like all these guys are well-spoken, to the point where I will wake up to DMs that are like, are you sure you're right about this guy or whatever Sounds like he knows what he's talking about. I think that's where the danger comes in to to play is that you, you know, you can give these guys a platform and and maybe your expectation is like we're gonna get some guys who can question them and call them out. But a lot of these guys that are questioning and calling them out are actually like grifters themselves. It becomes like this grifter on grifter violence where you're like, you know, and that to me is the inherent challenge, is that the problem with the space is that there's so many grifters. Well, I like I don't even know where I'm going with it, but you know what I'm getting at. 

39:00 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah well, for sure, there's a clip on your if so, if someone's just going to scroll through your feed, they'll see the clip of two of the not low uh grifters on dub club. You already know what I'm gonna mention mpb versus sgp vic, where they're like I'm ashamed you sell on dub club. Then mpb is like well, I'm ashamed you sell on dub club. They're like arguing with each other. They're just both not low, like terrible human beings. 

39:21 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
You couldn't script that you. You tried. You literally couldn't. But I will say I will challenge that point of platforming these people because Mickey Mace 700,000 followers on Instagram. He doesn't need my platform. Bo Wagner, 170,000 followers on Twitter, doesn't need my platform Library. We can argue about that, but you I will. I will put that out there and we don't have to. 

39:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
you know, beat the hammer, but yeah, I'll just throw that out there as well well, like, like, your segments are sponsored now and some are sponsored, so you're getting paid to produce the content which I I have no issue with. I think that's only fair. Um, yeah, but a lot of people would argue, like you're bringing on people to to state their claims that have, like you know, a few thousand followers nobody's ever heard of and you're basically giving them air time that, like it would in any other medium, they would be paying for that time and you're just letting them go for 15, 20 minutes. And I get your, your point of view as, like the moderator, the host, right. It's a tough position to be in. 

40:32
I will still never, ever forget the interview we did here on Circles Off with Steve Fezzik. Okay, and I didn't know a lot about Fezzik, but Johnny, who was to my right at the time, different room, he's arguing with Fezzik. But Johnny, who was to my right at the time, different room, he's arguing with Fezzik. The entire interview. And afterwards people were coming at me. They're like, rob, you didn't go hard enough, or this. I'm like, well, there's a responsibility to the guest when you bring them on, to not just completely berate them. They're giving you their time and this and that. Secondly, like when you got two people at polar ends of the spectrum, you just kind of want to keep it on track, like I didn't want to jump in one way or another, but I I did get a lot of criticism for that. 

41:16
You constantly get the accusations of glazing there's all sorts of memes you know you're basically like protecting some of the worst drifters in betting. And I will say and I like I'm treating this as a conversation as much as an interview I get the accusation like I from from my point of view where you know I'm not a neutral because I I I gravitate towards like the sharper side of gambling Twitter but sometimes I'm listening, I'm like, fuck, elf, like somebody's going in with some great questions here and like you're cutting them off and you're moving on. I mean, I'll just give you the floor to respond to that. I don't know if it's premeditated. I don't know if it's your characteristics as a person. I don't know if it's premeditated. I don't know if it's your characteristics as a person. I don't know if it's agreements that you're making with the guests beforehand, but there does seem to me to be a lot of quote, unquote, glazing and protection. 

42:15 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, it's definitely fair. I'm not going to lie. I do definitely feel myself protecting the guests, so to speak, feel myself protecting the guests, so to speak, but in my defense, I have to get these people on the show. And if they come on a show knowing the host is going to berate them the whole show, why would they ever come on the show? I promise all the guests that I bring on that I will allow them to speak. You know, introduce themselves, tell everyone what they're about. 

42:47
First 15, 20 minutes of the show and I've done that every time right, and you are watching the show from the perspective of a sharp, right, you're watching it from the perspective of a sharp. So when you hear people going in at them and saying, oh, like he was getting to the point, I have other people dm me saying this is so boring. Talk about this. Yeah, right, so some, there's 1500, there's 1600 people watching the show. We can't just have one line of questioning the whole time on one thing. Right, like, like. I'll just talk about mickey, for example, because he was on last night. People wanted to talk about his bock garage edge. I'm sure the sharps would have talked about that for the full hour, whereas other people wanted to hear about Mickey's party stories, he talked about peeing in a girl's mouth. 

43:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That was insane Some random guy just comes on. He's like yeah, I was at a party with you in the summer and you were doing some freaky shit like pissing in people's mouths. I was like what the fuck am I listening to right now? 

43:44 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, so you know I'm not stupid, right? I understand the questions that everyone's asking. In my opinion, once everything is kind of revealed on that topic about the guest like they already have, like the public if they knew what was going on and they already had enough information to decide what they want about that person based on the line of questioning. And then it was intruding on the show, where it's boring now and we need to switch it up, that's when I will switch and I'm not going to sit here and say I'm perfect on that. I'm dumb, but that is my mentality, if that makes sense yeah, I, I don't know like the example you use is a good one. 

44:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That was the sund Sunday night episode, right, and like I wasn't in that live, I was watching TV with the wife and I'm like I'm not doing this tonight. But you know, like I think you're right in some aspects. Like you know, the guy's never going to come on and explain his baccarat edge Edge in quotations. It's never going to happen and that's kind of like the. I guess that's kind of um. By the way, when I say like I feel something is stale, I'm not speaking for the majority of people because I like I see your engagement, I see the listenership and and and you're doing well, like it's. It's on an ascension, for sure. But like you know, there's only so many things you can ask someone who is just like a good spoken grifter where they just they just find a way. And like that Nikki guy was just like yeah, I can't talk about that or he wouldn't deny allegations. 

45:14
He'd be like, yeah, you know what, from my recollection, I think I lost that guy $160,000 that one time but we also won together and it just becomes a spiral of there's like no fact checking, it's just everyone spouting off and I used to really love that about the original spaces, and now I've actually just grown to hate it because it's just and this is just me and I'm just being conversational I just find everything is it's too circular, Like it just works in a way where, like it's almost predictable when that happens and I think what, from my perspective, what adds to that is when you're actually on the side of the guest, it makes it even more predictable that you're going to shut down a certain line of conversation or something like that. Anyways, I'm just offering perspective. You are doing something that's extremely entertaining, even when it's just the bad actors arguing. 

46:21 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Is the goal just to grow the audience as much as possible? Yeah, that's, one of the goals is to grow. You know, I also do a lot of networking within the show myself, like connecting with people that I don't like know, and you know, eventually monetization would be a goal I haven't really made. I haven't made much off the show. Like you mentioned the sponsors, like it's not a significant amount, but yeah, that's it. Um, like like those three, all the above are goals of the show. Yeah. 

46:43 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
So just for the future of the show, you've had a lot of people come on. We've seen a lot of people come on and, I guess, publicly admit to crimes, which is a crazy thing to do on your spaces Like serious criminal crimes. Yeah, For people who don't know, I'm sure you have a list of some of the stuff you have to go back and get because the guy's trying. Anyways, a list of some of the stuff you have to go back and and get, because the guys try anyways. 

47:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not going to get into that here, but admitting to crimes for for clicks is for clout is insane, crazy. 

47:08 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, it's like I'm on another planet yeah, and like we also have people trying to like unknowingly trying to bait people into publicly admitting into crimes, where it's like I'm gonna book your actions, like no, no, no, that's illegal, we're not gonna do that. 

47:19 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Um so yeah, it happened last night. Yeah, I'm trying to get Spanky to work here. 

47:22 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's crazy. So are you worried just about that at all? With regards to the future of your space, where there might be some I don't want to say real-world impact because, like, a lot of these guys are scammers, right, and they should be in trouble for the stuff that they've done? When you're publicly admitting to crime Just like, what are your takes on the whole crime stuff? 

47:45 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Listen. If they want to come on my show and publicly admit to crimes, I have no problem with that. If they want to come on my show, cash out king and publicly admit to crimes and then threaten to sue me for defamation of character afterwards, then sue me, send me. Send me the defamation case. All right, I don't care, I'll laugh at it, all right. But if they want to call my son and admit to crimes, go ahead. 

48:08 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I'm dm me, that's fine would you, would you feel like you fully, fully made it, if your one of your spaces was submitted into court documents? 

48:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
no, you don't want that though, man. It's a such a headache. 

48:20 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
You don't want no, but I feel like elf wouldn't have to deal with any of that, just having his spaces referenced. Do you think that'd be like? 

48:27 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I wouldn't say this is the moment I made it, but I would say um it would be a story. That's what I'll say yeah, I would say I made it now because it's in court. But I will say this is a story. I'm in court now because of this idiot, said he uh committed he was booking thousands of bets and didn't pay anyone back so have you? 

48:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
have you only had the one lawsuit threat so far? 

48:51 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
uh, yes, that's the. That's the only lawsuit threat I've had so far so far I've had um other interesting threats that I don't want to share, of course, on the spaces, but that's the only legal threat I've had. Yeah, I can imagine. 

49:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean listen you got like when you got, when you got literal mobsters in the space yeah, yeah, we have monsters in the space I can't even believe what we're talking about here, man, if you told me a couple years ago, you know you're starting this circles off podcast. It's catered to sharp bettors, you're. And now we're talking about like I mean, I will say there was um to what you were talking about before, jay, I thought I had such a good grasp uh, I I've been like, let me just open up my twitter profile really quickly here. 

49:41
I think I joined twitter in 2010, I want to say, and I thought I had such a good grasp on gambling twitter and there's like a an entire world that I didn't even know existed and part of me is curious, but part of me just never wants to interact with these people ever. You know what I'm getting at. I think that I think that's what draws me back it's, it's morbid curiosity is what it is. 

50:11 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah yeah, and I'll quote. I'll quote you on that rob, on his first show he ever did, he said he told the bet's damn story and then he said please l, whatever you do, just no man in the library. 

50:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I told you I was like rob we're gonna bring him on tonight and he goes oh yeah, damn it out, and we brought him on well, I don't join anymore when he's on because, like I again, like I don't. I don't want people just throwing out like random baseless accusations at me which I can't disprove in real. It's like you know what? What date in time did bet stamp remove this feature from the app, would it like? How would anyone know that without? Anyways? Anyways, it's great, but this is, this is what it's it's gotten to. Um, it's what it's gotten yeah, so you? 

50:58 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
you were alluding to some stuff that you can't really share, behind the scenes, where people have been saying mean things to you, or not mean things, but have said some things. Yeah, um, are there any crazy? Behind the scenes where people have been saying mean things to you or not mean things, but have said some things. Yeah, um, are there any crazy behind the scenes stories that you can share? That haven't really yet seen the light of day, but you're open to sharing now um, yeah, I mean I'll share. 

51:16 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I'll share the story with how I got mickey on the show and you know I feel absolutely awful about this at the moment. So I was, uh, sean Perry crashed out on Twitter, as you guys saw, and I told him I would have him on my show and the guy is impossible to work with. I could talk to his manager. Yeah, his manager has got like a million followers on Instagram, by the way. 

51:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Did he ask you? Did he ask you for an appearance fee? 

51:43 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
No, no, they did not. They did not. But they said like, oh, we're not gonna ask you. I scheduled um at two times they scheduled it, they canceled on me an hour later, then they scheduled it again and then they ghosted me the next day and I told mickey. I was like I well, we told mickey what was going on, right, we're like listen, he's gonna come on the show and completely trash you, right, like, if you want to come on the show and protect yourself, you can't. And he said he was gonna come on the show uh, instead of sean, under the, the circumstance that I do not have sean perry on the show. And I told him okay, I'm like fuck sean perry. 

52:19
Like these guys got a massive ego and what ended up happening was I didn't let Sean Perry speak for four hours you can see in the comments. He requested the whole show, the request to speak the whole time, just trashing me Out of respect for Mickey. I didn't do it and then the only reason why I let him on was it wasn't me that let him on, by the way, but Trent, who is way bigger than me, told me he would host Arrival Spaces with Jack Mack, nadeau and man of the Vig. I'm like that's my whole squad, like you're just going to steal my show. Like literally live on my show. They organized this, my show. Like literally live on my show, they organized this. 

53:07
And I was like damn, like this is kind of like a make or break moment where it's like do I go back on my word that I just gave to someone to like protect my show? And um, you know, I got up and I left to the bathroom and my elf parody account as the co-host let sean perry in while I was in the bathroom and I come back and he's speaking right like I probably should have kicked sean, because I gave my word to mickey and um, I didn't let sean perry crash out. Um, that was probably. I mean, that was probably one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make. 

53:40
Like that's the first time I ever like went back on my word and I I feel like shit about it. Like like I gave my word to someone I wouldn't do something and I like literally did it that same day, like because like that was the circumstance. I'm not I'm not like defending it, but that that's all that happened. So I mean, I feel awful about it. There's really no excuse for it, but that's what happened. But yeah, that yeah. 

54:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I think that's one of the inherent challenges, honestly, with the content that you're doing, because I think to attract a lot of these guests, they know what they're getting into right. 

54:15
It's like I remember the first conversation I had on a space is with Bo Wagner, right, and I had reached out to Bo Wagner saying like let's do this on Circles Off. And out to Bo Wagner saying like let's, let's do this on circles off. And he says on the space he's like you think I'm an idiot, like because I'm not going to come on to your show and have you grill me and roast me for an hour, but I, I, my personal issue is I, I think I mean you're, you're not a dummy. I'm not treating you like a dummy either, but people are leveraging you and like they're basically laying down the law, saying like this can't happen, that can't happen. 

54:46
And I've heard the comparisons to jerry springer show before right in the past and the difference I would draw because I used to watch jerry springer show, like when I was home from school growing up and, like you know, sick day price is right in the morning, jerry springer in the afternoon, that's the shit I used to do the difference was that, like the producers for the jerry springer show, they they were booking the guests. Jerry wasn't booking the guests like alphys so they they made contact. 

55:13
They were finding the craziest fucking stories on the planet. Then they were coming in and jerry was like kind of piling on right, it's like no, this is. 

55:20
This is crazy. You're having sex with your sister. What the the fuck is going on? He'd be going nuts, whereas it feels like, on this side of things, you're protecting the person that's doing the crazy stuff. And I mean, how often like, maybe I'm out of line, but like I mean, how often do you reach out to someone and they're like I'm only coming on if, under these circumstances, it happens a lot and I think the Jerry Springer comparison is fair. 

55:50 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
But I will say this it's also unfair because, as you mentioned, the guests that Jerry Springer has on are usually strippers crackheads, With all due respect, the guests that I have on the show. 

56:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, I'm sorry, the people you have on are not far removed from that. I'm not exaggerating here, dude, it might be worse. 

56:13 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I get your argument, but these people have reputations, they have brands. They're not like. You know. They're like Mickey has 700,000 followers on Instagram. Yeah, like he to me. He's coming on my show. Like I have what? Like 13,000 followers, even though my show's got a lot of views. It's different. You don't have as much leverage as a Jerry Springer show. It's different. So you have to balance the amount of leverage you have per guest while also maintaining your integrity as a host. And you know I'm not gonna like just completely sell out for someone. But, like, like I said, there are things that I have to do that you know most people wouldn't do, just to just to have a show. 

56:58
So it's, it's a balancing act and I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm going to sit here and say I'm perfect. I just admitted to a flaw five minutes ago. That happened, but I'm learning and I can only just do my best, right. 

57:13 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Like you mentioned before, you've had some crazy guests on, some big guests on. You've been accused of some things as well. People have said that you've paid, or sorry, you've been paid to have people on your spaces. People have paid to come on your spaces. Let's clear the air right now. No, you haven't correct. No, never. 

57:29 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
The only person I've ever offered money to come on to the show was Matt Zilbert. That's the only person. 

57:37 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
He rejected you. He fucking rejected you too, man, I'm not kidding, I'll put that on there. Two more questions will you ever pay someone other than matt silbert to come on your show? And then one more question I have is has anyone ever made like an absolutely crazy offer to come talk on your spaces? 

57:57 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
uh, no, no one's ever made a crazy offer. Besides, like I'll get, get ridiculous sponsorship offers that would kill the show. There was a provider that you could sell pics on. They told me to paywall my show behind their subscription. Oh that's insane and I was like all right, I'm just going to kill my show, yeah. 

58:20 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Some people just don't understand. Are you going to reveal who that is or no? 

58:24 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
No, it's okay, but you could probably guess if I. 

58:30 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I could probably guess, yeah. 

58:31 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
But yeah, it's just some terrible offers, but no, nothing like. I've never paid anyone a dime to call my show. If anything at this point they should be paying me, as Rob mentioned. So I'll put that out there don't forget that, which I'm not, you know. I'll keep that in mind as the show grows. 

58:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know what I mean we'll keep going here with elf in just one second as a reminder, one of our show sponsors here, edge boost. Nothing is worse than getting blocked from making a bet at the worst possible moment. It sucks. We've all been there before. You're ready to fire a bet at the worst possible moment, it sucks. We've all been there before. You're ready to fire a bet, suddenly your deposit won't go through, your card gets flagged, your PayPal's frozen, your bank decides that's not happening today. It's frustrating. It happens way too often. That's why so many bettors, both pros and everyday bettors, are switching over to Edge Boost. It's the first ever dedicated bank account built specifically for sports betting, for dfs, for casino and for sweeps. No more deposit issues, no more bank interference, smooth transactions. Every time I know what you're thinking is this legit? Everyone's always like ah, is this legit? Elf tell, is this legit? 

59:42 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
is legit. I've churned probably over a million through this card so far Actually easily over a million and I've had absolutely no issues. It's a great product and I also yeah, I love it, so it's legit. 

59:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There you go. Edge Boost Visa debit card is available across the US. Lets you move up to 250K per day, which would be great for a lot of you pros. You earn cash back on every single deposit. If you're betting seriously, it's a no brainer. It's honestly a great product. Check it out. Don't get blocked again. Click the link in the description below. Start earning today with Edge Boost. All right, I mean, listen, that was very organic. I mean I liked that we had someone on the show that actually uses it. 

01:00:24 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
A lot of my friends are using it. I'm literally up 2,944 this month from Esri. I use it every day. 

01:00:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it's a good product 3,000 bucks this month, in February alone. 

01:00:35 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, I mean listen, there you go, pays my rent. 

01:00:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, there you go. I mean, you could pay for an updated wardrobe. 

01:00:46 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
there, next to the, there's definitely some upgrades that need to be made in my apartment. 

01:00:50 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
We need some wall art for you, man. This is crazy. By the way, the white wall behind you, yeah. 

01:00:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It says what life is good. Life is good. That's good. Life is good. It's a very positive message for someone who runs the most negative. 

01:01:04 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
It's funny, like whenever someone like you said the glaze, whenever someone says anything positive, like oh, like he actually made a good point, the elf is glazing. You know what I mean? So it is, yeah, it's true I think. 

01:01:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think that's actually you know what, though it's kind of a good shtick at this point yeah it's a good. 

01:01:20
You know, like I, I don't love it, but it is a good shtick. People talk about it. Ultimately, if your goal is to build the engagement and build the audience, you need stuff like that. So it is a good shtick. But I I am curious because now that you're like, you're making a name for yourself, you're much more popular now than even a month ago. Uh, and not all of it is positive. In fact, a lot of it is negative, so do you care about how people perceive you? 

01:01:44 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
uh, I mean, I wish like I'm not gonna lie and sit up here and say like I don't care at all, like every human cares how they, how they're being perceived. 

01:01:52
Like if someone's just consistently talking shit about you 24 7 on the internet which there's literally a show that does that every single day about me uh, you, you care, it's an attack on your character and it sucks when it's not true. So I'm not gonna sit up here and lie and say no, but yeah, I've gotten better at it. Like you know, you just got idea that you just have to do what's best for you as a as a person and as a as a gambler and uh, that that's really the goal, right, I know I want to grow the show, I want to make as much money betting as possible and that, and that's my main focus Do you think go ahead, finish that. And I was going to say, if I can leverage any of that hate that I get into good content, I will do it, and I think everyone else should do that as well. Yeah, it's the best way to deal with it. 

01:02:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Do you think the gambling Twitter scene has changed for the better or the worse over the past year? For the? 

01:02:43 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
better or the worse over the past year. Over the past year, worse for sure worse and I wouldn't say that it is due to the gamblers. I would say it's due to the book's reaction to the gamblers. The books are way better at cracking down on edges, which has turned it into a much more toxic place. In general, there's a no-win game as a content creator in the space now where if you're providing educational content under the goodness of your heart, you'll have people who will be hating on you for doing that. If you don't provide educational content, people will say you're not providing any value to the community, so you can't win either way. So it's definitely more negative. But uh, yeah, and I I personally am on the route now where I do not provide, um, any educational content anymore, so I can't keep all edges. Yeah, that I have. Yeah, that's interesting. 

01:03:39 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah you, you, you used to, though correct, used to. 

01:03:43 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
And I will say I didn't know any better. 

01:03:45 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Of course. 

01:03:47 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
If you have an edge do not tell it with anybody. That's my suggestion, yeah. 

01:03:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think that came up as a plus CV move of the week on one of the shows before. Many times you got to keep the stuff to yourself, sometimes, unfortunately. Keep it to yourself, yeah, absolutely. For those who have maybe never been into one of these spaces, I'd be surprised that they made it this far into the interview. But I'm curious for you, having hosted all of these, with all these other bettors, heated exchanges, all these gambling personalities, what is the wildest moment that's happened in one of your spaces from your point of view? 

01:04:21 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
The wildest moment there's, like so many rob. I mean even like last night alone, I could probably pick out three. We had, like mickey mace sharing about peeing in girls mouths. We had sean perry challenging spanky heads up in college basketball five hundred thousand dollars a game till someone's bankrupt. We had, um like I don't. We had cash out king admit to scamming to jack depression out of 150 000. He told him to his face, if I have 15 million dollars, I wouldn't pay you back a cent. Like like I don't even know where to start, rob. Like like those are three off the top of my head. Like I like I do shows every day and you know I have people clipping this out. They're like what should I click? I just said anything, dude. Like literally just pick a minute and clip it and it's a clip. You know what I mean. So yeah, that's what I'll say. Is there any for you that you can think of? 

01:05:24 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
or for me personally, I I still think this is the top moment was when, rob, you were on the spaces arguing with these two italian guys. I forget. No, no, it's the sharp dual guys and and sam losing better comes on and pretends to be someone he's like and I forget what it was about. But Sam losing better comes in. 

01:05:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I could not stop laughing at that. I believe Sam came in and was impersonating man of the Vig and people thought that Maybe, yeah, no, no no, he was impersonating Billionaire Betts. 

01:05:54 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, billionaire Betts. 

01:05:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
People just thought it was him for like 15 minutes. 

01:05:58 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, so we had a guy that's been leaking Discord picks and he's been kicked off every pick selling service. He's roided up the wazoo. We bring him on the show a lot and he hates Sharptool. So he goes after the CEO of Sharptool all the time on the show and they beef it out and I think actually I think the best moment was when Nadeau called Spanky a rat. And then Spanky came on the show and put him in his place. 

01:06:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's rat. Oh, spanky came on the show and put him in his place. Yes, that's probably the best. Yeah, that was a good one. I, I, you know it's funny you brought that up, jason, because I actually didn't even remember that happened until just now. And you know what I regret that one because, if you recall, I came on and I, I came into that conversation and I I simply asked the guy to explain what his edge was in in sports. I'm like it's a very simple question like what, what? And he's like oh, you know, I like I bet into the market or whatever. He's like what's your edge? And then I started rhyming off like all these edges that I have right. I'm like I'm an originator NHL, I can model numbers better than the market, I can do top down betting in these sports, I have connections and whatever, and I went through it back to him. But the problem is, by asking that question, I created an army of people who would just come in and ask that question on a nightly basis, what's your edge? 

01:07:11 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
and it got played. 

01:07:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It got played out so quickly that I actually became embarrassed at one point. I'm like, oh my god, not again. Another guy is on gonna try to answer what his edge is, but it's a it's. It's the best question someone can ask someone else to like. Now it's it's. Where's your pnl? 

01:07:31 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
post your pnl. 

01:07:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Post your fucking pnl right but I still prefer the, because listen, anyone can. If you can post a pnl that you won at points, bet or draft, like you know you're not proving anything, buddy, like it's, you know, it's a good starting point, I guess it's a floor. 

01:07:48 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's a floor, especially if you're going to sell picks. At least have the floor that you've at some point in your time betting that you've made money doing this and not just been a donation the entire time you've existed in this ecosystem. 

01:07:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But by asking someone to explain their edge. Every, every other sharp bettor can immediately discern whether or not that person is a winner or not by the answer to that question. 

01:08:11 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
You can tell not only that, rob, you can tell in the first 30 seconds on how they answer that question. 

01:08:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The sharps can do that right. 

01:08:18 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
So, how long? 

01:08:19 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
are you going to let a sharp grill a person on that one subject? 

01:08:23 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
right. 

01:08:24 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
While me, as the host, maintaining a relationship with that person if they're big enough to have them come back on right so that's the balancing act that I face on a daily basis well, that's another point too. 

01:08:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's like you, you want, you want to maintain the relationship, to get them back on in the future. That's like another. But you know, listen, I, I don't blame you for a lot. I do like I said I would be, I do think you glaze a lot of, especially the female um characters that come on like. It's to the point where I'm like embarrassed for you, honestly, for some of those, but I understand and in some cases. 

01:08:57
Some of these guys come in way too hard, like I, like man of the big, but the like dude he's he's like prepping like he's going to fucking court with people and like he's got the questions prepped out, I think, and as soon as the the answers deviate from what he thought, this shit's gonna go off the rails, and I don't think you can let that happen. So I I mean, I get it, I get it, but yeah, I've got. 

01:09:21 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I've gotten into it with him as well me, me personally many times, and he, he's, you know, for me it's've gotten into it with him as well, me personally many times. And he's, you know, for me it's fun getting into it with him because I feel like he's like it's a challenge for me. You know, like if I'm going against man of the big, like I have to push myself. So I like doing that personally. But now you're completely right, he's got this, he's got. He comes with receipts when he comes, fuck. When he comes, fuck man. I think he's got people texting him throughout the entire show. Yeah, because he like I don't know how he's got to be well connected. 

01:09:48 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
His lore knowledge is insane, like he gets insane stuff in real time. 

01:09:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's like uh, can you tell us about this time, like where you know, he know, I don't know where he's getting this. 

01:09:57 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
He's well prepared I still don't know who he is. By the way, I actually I have no idea like who he actually is no, you don't. 

01:10:03 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Do you think he's nick from cap? 

01:10:04 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I don't think he's nick from cap wise I thought he was and no, so I thought he was. Then I thought he wasn't, then I was 100 sure he was and now I don't, I don't, I have no. I'm sitting here and saying I don't know who he is yeah, yeah, I don't know he's either. 

01:10:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was so sure it was him but now I don't know, how do you feel when guys docks other people on the? Oh, I hate it. 

01:10:23 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
That's like the uh whenever you bring anything from the internet into real life. We had a segment where someone called boomer betts's place of employment yeah, to get him fired I thought that was the most. 

01:10:38
That was the most disgraceful thing. Yeah, that wasn't on my show. That happened because of stuff, uh, on twitter and then we had him talk about on my show. But that happened because of stuff on Twitter and then we had him talk about it on my show. But if anyone is attacking you on the internet, leverage that to make content out of it farm impressions. Don't bring it into real life and try to get someone fired or doxed. Don't do that. I hate it. 

01:11:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I got to tell you it was really weird for me to hear you say that like leverage that to farm impressions. It's just a very different way of thinking from me. Yeah, Anyways, I just found that really interesting, but yeah. 

01:11:18 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah. I'm going to just come out here and ask. I already know your answer, but like you have a lot of pick sellers coming on this basis, give me your opinion on pick selling. 

01:11:31 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
It's very tough. I will say it depends on each pick seller what you're selling. So I think if you're selling picks for like $10 a month, if you could provide more than ten dollars of expected value on those picks a month, then you're profitable doing it. I don't. I think probably 95 percent of the people on the show are not providing that expected value. And then there's another angle I want to bring up. Let's say you are a degenerate gambler and you buy picks from a tout if they can, if they can somehow take you from your degenerate gambling on your own, however much you were losing before you bought picks, and lose less with the tout somehow, then that, in a certain sense, would be positive expected value. However, I don't. 99 of these guys don't provide value. And the ones that do provide value, that provide good lines uh, the people in their discords won't get those lines at that price and aren't aware of it. 

01:12:30
I at one point had a free discord where I would put lines like live ev stuff and like live ev stuff's even worse, because I would post the line during like a timeout or something that I thought was good and people in the discord would hit it and they would get like a results channel. I would post something at like plus 300. 

01:12:47
They would post that they bet it five minutes later into the game minus 190 in a different book so you could have the right intentions and the people in the discord who are educated won't get it so right. Um, there's a lot of different angles to that. So to blanket say pick selling is good or bad is I can't do it. You have to go case by case and investigate it and I don't have the time to do it. On each show you pretty much can tell what's going on within the first month. I can at least. 

01:13:19 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
How do you think I guess then we as a community can do a better job of informing the masses that don't really know better as to like who to buy picks from, or who's a scammer and who isn't. How do you because you mentioned that us sharp bettors can figure out pretty quickly if someone is a fraudster or not, but I feel like the average person buying picks to not Right. How do you feel, like, how can we as a community in these spaces do a better job of, like leading people away from these scammers, or like, instead of just challenging them like man of the vig style, like can we do something better as a community? 

01:13:54 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
No, it's an impossible situation because you cannot educate the public on what to do properly without killing your own edge and that's why no one sharp enough does it. That's why you don't see man in the Vick ever leak anything with actual substantial value and instead just attack people. So I think any education you do to the public would be negative expected value as a sharp, and you can't you can't deny that um well, I can. 

01:14:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I can, I because no because but there's always low hanging fruit, right, so like no, there's not there. 

01:14:30 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
That's for now there is. 

01:14:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You say that but, but, but even let me just pose this question out Like what percentage of bettors actually understand how the betting market works? Like, think about the amount of people who think that, like the sports books know everything and they're baiting you into betting this, and like they don't even understand the simplicities of them. Just by understanding how the market even works, how price discovery works, how betting early is going to be more beneficial, like that's not going to kill a sharp, but they can still put it out there into the world and somebody's going to take something meaningful from that. I mean, you can disagree with that. No, no, I'll say no. 

01:15:10 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
No, I'll answer your question. There's a low percentage of people who understand the current betting market and the more people that understand that those low hanging fruit opportunities will disappear and they already are starting to disappear. 

01:15:20
For example, if there is a low hanging fruit prop, it is a race to that prop. You don't need mass amount of people to hit a prop before it's gone. It takes one person on a 10% limited fan book, one or two before Max Bennett. The trader just knows, just move the line. It's not a oh, you know, it's a low percentage. Anyway. It doesn't matter. If there's three people that are already limited hitting that prop, a trader will just move the line. So it's like I'll stand by my statement. You don't need any education towards the public will diminish that low-hanging fruit, it's true. 

01:16:00
So so then you have to, you have to ask yourself what can you do with sharps? I, I don't know, what can you do. And you and rob, you've come on the show and said, uh, you don't like, like. Respectively, you are financially set in life, right, like so you, you can feel good, with a good conscience, about educating the public, right, I I cannot, because I still, in my opinion, want to make way more money betting. Yes, so no, and I get this because like this is um. 

01:16:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I I had this conversation with with ba analytics porter right on on your show and and we've had porter on circles off a couple times and porter bets for a living and he does really well doing that and his whole thing is we need these people. 

01:16:45 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Like. Why are the? 

01:16:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sharps coming in here and tell like we need as many of these people as possible, and he's not wrong. It's just different because of my life experience. Plain and simple. 

01:16:57
I would sacrifice like and I'm not exaggerating and maybe this is because I've done well betting but I'd sacrifice hundreds of thousands in EV to not have people go through what I've went through in life when I was younger, because it's really shitty to lose everything you have from sports betting. It's not great. So I guess it's different strokes for different folks. Like everyone has different goals and I mean I'm certain if you know, if I was just trying to make ends meet and I had a big edge right now, yeah, I would definitely not be sharing you know so so I and I get that point. 

01:17:34
but yeah, I know it's always, it's interesting, it's kind of like a self-reflection. 

01:17:43 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm just curious, cause you mentioned BA analytics. He talks a little bit about his nice guy theory. I guess, on, he's right, yeah, but how do we, I guess, on the spaces, how do we, how do we let people know to the masses that, like masses, they're like, hey, like this, this is a real thing. I know we talk about it quite a bit, but, um, yeah, just how do we again, I'm just more focusing on the masses here, just to be not, not even I'm not even talking about like getting rid of edges or anything that just like curving people away from, I mean, the guy who was on on on this past Sunday Weiss, I believe, is his name. Like that guy's saying he's the top two better on fanatics or something it's like. If, like, he's getting flown out to the white parties and stuff, like brother, you like we know that he's wrong about that, but someone's gonna see that and be like, wow, this guy wins well, that's, that's the like. 

01:18:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One of the the spaces I jumped into was the one where it was one of the first ever ones that mpb was on where he was claiming to be the best tennis better in the world. 

01:18:39 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Every time he jumps in, he says I'm the number one tennis player in the world, which is unequivocally false. 

01:18:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But but like I jumped into that one because I was listening to it and I honestly felt like an onus, because I'm like somebody might actually listen to this guy and he is, if you, if you do not know sports betting, he's very believable in what he's saying right now, so I had to jump in and grill the guy yeah, and I mean he did it for himself. 

01:19:05
He talked about you know how he was up like 60 units so far this year and then he said I'm up 25k this year. I just did simple division. I'm, like you know, number one tennis better in the world's not betting 420 a unit and he's like he's completely flustered. At that point I know I'd. But that's that's the challenge, I think, is that I listen and I'll I'll interrupt with mpb. 

01:19:29 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I've tweeted that he's a scammer and I quoted. I saw that he was selling his dub club yearly subscription. 

01:19:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, attached to his free style. 

01:19:38 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, me calling him a scammer. 200,000 years on Twitter. I've brought on bookies that he has stiffed onto the show, like if that doesn't diminish your credibility. No, yeah. 

01:19:51 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
For sure. 

01:19:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I agree, and those were good moves, I think ultimately. Yeah, I just struggle with. It's entertaining as fuck, right. 

01:20:01 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
There's no right answer, Rob. 

01:20:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But I'm listening through my perspective and listen. Jason's not a professional bettor, but he's sharp, he understands, he's learned a lot about betting. 

01:20:13 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I don't consider myself sharp, but I think I have like 0.1 knowledge on the sports betting space compared to like the rest, like I'm in like the 0.1 of of you've learned enough. 

01:20:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like you understand the space yeah and you know I think about this from the. I often do this when I'm listening to the spaces. It's like these fucking guys are idiots. But is somebody like, are there of these 1500 people listening right now? There's got to be like a, at least a small percentage that is going to go and check this guy out and like maybe fall for the tricks. And I don't know what the balancing point is because, like, if you're just going for entertainment, elf, I mean you do you whatever, and like you don't have to have like to each their own right. Um, I'm not saying there should be like this moral responsibility to like out every single person. I get what's going on here, but I do like every now and then, these guys being put into their place. 

01:21:08 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, and that's honestly what I feel like sorry to jump in here, alpha, like that's been, my goal whenever I try and join is just to make sure that people like those guys aren't able to come in and say those things. Cause I know we talked about the have giving these people a platform. It's crazy to me because, like they're like, maybe you're giving them a quote unquote Twitter platform, but their platform is much wider than just what it is on Twitter and by bringing them on, it allows us to grill them, to show the people who are around on Twitter that they are Exactly and to show the people who are around on Twitter that they are scriptors. 

01:21:36 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I platform you as well, Jason. I always let you join, Of course. Yeah. You know, what I mean. 

01:21:41 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
This guy's in there in the first minute of every. 

01:21:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I always join in the first five minutes just to see it's. Elf Parody account Takes by Jay. 

01:21:51 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Need you. 

01:21:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Usually the barstool guy Jack Mack. 

01:21:55 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Jack Mack, you get a Spanky. Spanky's in there. Spanky's all the time. 

01:22:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Six hours Does he request to speak immediately. 

01:22:07 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
No, no no, no, no, no, but recently, yes, he's been very invested recently. 

01:22:10 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
He loves the show, spanky loves the show. 

01:22:13 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
It's awesome, it's great. Listen I— the show. It's awesome, it's great I yeah, listen I listen and having listen, and having spanky up there sometimes like he bites his tongue. I believe so do I. But sometimes he has enough, and then him, like you could, if you're a viewer, you can just kind of tell, like that, the people speakers like respect spanky right besides the one, I always find it hilarious when someone will come on and just disrespect spanky. 

01:22:36
Come on and just disrespect spanky so bad and just be clueless. Like I find that like there's something like comedy to that oh, yeah, but like I, like spanky, sometimes he just can't bite his tongue anymore and he will just go on a rant and then provide a lot of value and then, and then that's it right, and yeah, and you know, yeah, it's quality, it's quality content it's quality content, that and that's what it is. 

01:22:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And like there's so many people who will message me and they're like, oh, how do you waste so much of your time going into the? And it's like it's my time, like I, if, if we find, if, if this many people find this to be entertaining, then that's, that's like we can do whatever we want to do. Um, you know, I get that all the time Like what kind of sharp better would be in this? Well, I'm not in there all the time. Sometimes I listen back and I wake up the next morning. They're like dude, you got to listen to. Like Sean Perry and Spanky, go at it. I'm like, okay, I'll go listen to half an hour. I'm not listening to six hours. But before we close it out, we? Um jason came to me before the show. He's like I want to do, uh, I want to catch elf off guard here a little bit and do a bit of a word association game. 

01:23:42 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Uh, yeah, I wanted to ask about the white whale. First, go for it. Do you have a white whale guest for your space? Is that the one guy that you're like? Is your goal to get on like a super lofty goal that you want? 

01:23:54 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
to get on the space okay, I like that. 

01:23:56 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
That's a good answer. That would be sweet that would be sick. 

01:23:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think it's possible I really do. 

01:24:01 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Well, jack max, you're in so we had brace hall yesterday that was crazy, by the way yeah, yeah. 

01:24:07 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
So I think, uh, but I think I'm important yeah portnoy though is. 

01:24:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's very um, that's a challenge because he's very business savvy and he's the type of guy who would be like no, no, no, like we do this on barstool platform or we don't do it, type of thing. But that would be cool. That would be cool, I mean the night that Big Cat joined. Frankly, big Cat was. I love Big Cat, but he was a huge disappointment because he was like in bed with his wife and he was just like trolling Nadeau while he was in there Wish he gave a little bit more and. 

01:24:38 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Nadeau was also a disappointment as well. 

01:24:41 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Oh, that night yeah. 

01:24:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think this is maybe a contrarian take or, like minor, I think Nadeau is essential for the show. 

01:24:51 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Hashtag Nadeau. 

01:24:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know I love Nadeau. No, I agree, I think he brings a perspective or a persona that nobody else has in the space. I think he's so essential. But yeah, I mean, portnoy is a white whale. I think that's a good call. I really do All right. 

01:25:17 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I'm sure you'd glaze him as well. All right, let's do some word associations, associations. I'm just going to list a couple names. Just give me the first word that comes to your mind or phrase. Alright, you ready. Gotta start with the king, Jeff Nadeau. 

01:25:26 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Goat, I love him. 

01:25:28 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Fan duel fanatics. Clown man of the vig. Smart, intelligent MPB Clown but scammer as well, I'm gonna go scammer clown funny. 

01:25:44 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Okay, all right jack mac uh, a friend, friend I'd say he's a friend yeah tasho king scammer can I say more than word phrase. 

01:25:57 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Word phrase, whatever you want, just anything that comes to your mind piece of shit by the way, that's Elf's opinion only. 

01:26:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
By the way, we should put that out here. I don't want to deal with no lawsuits. I'll tell you that right now. 

01:26:15 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Taylor Mathis a business savvy, uh yeah, or savvy okay, like yeah, savvy really milking that one, all right opportunist, opportunist you, you picked up on that, I picked up on your milk joke. 

01:26:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, measy me measy oh scammer uh that guy, that guy's story was actually sad to listen, like I, I was actually ill listening to that guy talk. 

01:26:46 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I would say tragedy as well. There's like there's a lot that goes into that story, like believe it like there's a lot more than meets the eye like someone who has never had money pick pick selling, which you know we can talk about the pick selling making 500K a month, losing everything and then, on his way down, took everyone down with him that he'd ever done business with so scammer. I hope he pays everyone back, yeah that's wishful thinking. 

01:27:11 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Sam aka Losing Better. 

01:27:20 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Hilarious, aka losing better hilarious. He needs to request more and I told him. I told him to record when he comes up and send it to me so I don't have to do all that work myself. 

01:27:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, he's my, he's my favorite personality. He's a great cameo, oh so good. 

01:27:28 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Whenever I see that guy speaking, I'm always listening yeah be analytics uh, intelligent, intelligent, you can always just tell right away book it. 

01:27:38 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Book it, trent, sorry uh, chill. 

01:27:41 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
He always just comes on the spaces and never really adds. Once he's just kind of chilling what the what? 

01:27:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
this guy tried to fucking steal your spaces, man. This guy literally tried to undercut you. 

01:27:52 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
You could come on and say chill uh, yeah, he pretty much did burn my bridge. Unfortunately, it's a burning my bridge with Mickey, but I would say he's chill. I mean he really, I mean he does, he just comes on and chills, you know, wow. 

01:28:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is the most epic glazing we've seen of all time, but no, he didn't try to steal my shit. He literally said he was going to go start another, another spaces and bring everyone along with him yeah, I know, I mean that's pretty that's pretty fucked up, man. 

01:28:27 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
All right, all right, three more spanky uh, I can't fit that into one word. I would say at this point a friend, but also like mentor, a little bit as well. All right, last two bonos bonos uh, a character I would say good, with words like just impossible to pin down all right, and then the last spokesman bo wagner great spokesman, uh, erica waters, aka erica wagner no comment. Erica Waters aka Erica Wagner. No comment, no comment on that. 

01:28:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, we'll end it off here. We like to always end with something a little different, so same closing question for everyone. Now, what could be related to sports betting? It could be whatever. It doesn't have to be. 

01:29:20 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
One thing that you think is plus EV in life and one thing that you think is minus EV in life. I think one thing that's plus EV would be just networking. Reach out to everyone. If my show could inspire anyone, I would say that the sky's the limit. I've had guests on that. People would never, ever, expect someone of my stature to have on and just just shoot for the stars. You know like, uh, yeah, just don't. Don't be afraid to get turned down. It's part of life. Uh, something that's negative evie would be focusing on, focusing on other things that aren't related to you too much. So at the end of the day, you should always be striving to be the best person. So, rather than uh, like attacking someone else, like try, try to just be the best person focus on yourself so negatively. 

01:30:06
You've been focusing on other people too much, yeah all right, there you go. 

01:30:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
His name is elf, runs a twitter spaces uh, I want to say like four or five days a week. He always says it's going to be less and then he just like yeah. 

01:30:18 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
One last thing before we go. Can we start doing these a little bit earlier, so I don't have to go to bed at 3 am? 

01:30:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
and work the next day Like please Pack this shit up, man, condense it like six hours man. Either that or move to the West Coast if you're going, okay, I got to get there someday, but it's getting fucking late, man, oh my God. 

01:30:43 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
I've never gone until 3 am, until last night, because of what happened. 

01:30:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like, if you saw the show. 

01:30:48 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
It was just six hours of just pure gold. So I mean yeah, a lot of these times I'll plan like one segment and that one segment will grow into three segments. You know what I mean? That one alone. 

01:30:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So it's just Well it's like this fucking cannonball effect, right, it's just like someone comes on and they make some comment about someone else, then every person is tagging this other person. 

01:31:15 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
That person. 

01:31:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And it just keeps going like that. But follow him on Twitter at Y-E-L-F-F underscore. 

01:31:26 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
Yeah, if you search Elf, it should come up. But that is the correct app. 

01:31:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, if you search anything on Twitter, it doesn't come up anymore. The search function is completely, completely broken. That's why I gave up the actual act, but uh follow him on twitter and if you're interested in some gambling twitter drama, you can check out one of the spaces. One night and hell, even if you want to speak request to speak request to speak and alpha, let you up. I mean, uh, I don't know. I you know, if you're important, he'll treat you well as well if you're important. 

01:31:55 - Elf (yElff_) (Guest)
No, I would say the key to getting let up is either A yes, be important or B if you DM me like either like a story or something you have like on a relevant guest. That's the best way to get brought up quickly. It's like oh wow, this guy has something. 

01:32:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's got proof, let him up. That's it. That's what I do. Smash that like button down below. Leave us a comment as well. It goes a long way in the algorithm. And, of course, if you're not subscribed here on Circles Off, at least half of you watching today are not subbed yet. Just click that button. It takes nothing. Set notifications. You'll get notified whenever we have new shows dropping. Until next time, peace out. Thanks for watching.