00:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Welcome to Circles Off presented by Underdog. I'm Rob Pizzola flying solo as a host. This week we do got a guest episode, jacob Grimenia, in the producer booth as well, and we're going to get right into it. But before we do, a reminder for all of you we are sponsored by Underdog. If you haven't checked them out yet, I'm a product guy first and foremost. 

00:28
About 10 years ago, I was working in this very same building where our studio is right now as the head of product for a company called the Score. I put a lot of time and effort into building out some of the best products in the entire market, and that's what originally had me gravitate towards Underdog as a product. Because it's very simple, it's easy to use, anyone can play and with Underdog's Pick'Em Contests you can put your knowledge to the test by selecting your favorite players, predicting whether they'll go higher or lower on certain stats. It's that easy. If you're an NBA better points, assists, rebounds, you name. It could be a big night any given night, and that's what a lot of people are gravitating towards nowadays the idea of putting down a little bit to really enhance the entertainment experience, win a lot of money. Best part new users who sign up today using code CIRCLES will get up to $1,000 in bonus cash when they make a deposit. Last part new users who sign up today using code CIRCLES will get up to $1,000 in bonus cash when they make a deposit, plus a free pick to get you started. 

01:32
Those free picks. They hit pretty close to a 100% success rate. They are intended to be a winner in the early going. That means you can play right away with extra funds and a risk-free shot at winning. It's fast, easy to play and available in most states and provinces as well. Don't sit on the sidelines. Sign up to underdog using code circles. The link is down in the description below. Our guest this week has taken the gambling Twitter world by storm in recent months. Joined May of 2024, coming up on a one-year anniversary exposing the best and worst takes on gambling Twitter. It's Spinfluencer joining us here on Circles Off SB. How's it going? 

02:19 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
It's going good. Thanks for having me, rob. I appreciate getting the chance to come on and have a chance to talk. I'm good. Thanks for having me, rob. I appreciate getting the chance to come on and have a chance to talk, and this is probably not going to be the sharpest interview you've ever had, but we're going to progress through it either way. 

02:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I'm very interested in that because, judging by the way you run the account and the amount of people who've tried to do this before you that have failed miserably, you do come across as very sharp. So let's dive into your background story here and the origin story. How did you first get into gambling? Were you always into sports betting or did you start with something else and then progress to sports betting? 

02:56 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Yeah, I wouldn't say I was always into sports betting. It went legal in Colorado in 2020, so that's when I really got into it. So we're going to have to go way back. I am in my mid-30s in 2020, so that's when I really got into it, so we're gonna have to go way back. I am in my mid 30s, um, so during my senior year of college in the fall of 2012, casino opened in a few miles down the road that I began frequenting in my hometown. 

03:13
Um, I liked playing blackjack occasionally, but I really just enjoyed the social interactions with the casino patrons. Uh, the people who'd be playing, you know, table games at three in the morning on a random Wednesday were who I started really going for and I started referring to them as cartoon characters. Some of these people were just so intriguing to me and I really enjoyed watching them, how they acted, listening to the nonsense that they spewed. I really enjoyed all of that more than even just playing table games at a certain point. So it's a very similar theme to what we see in gambling twitter nowadays just characters popping up left and right. Um, I guess you could say my actual gambling careers, um, started working for the casino. So after I finished up college, I wanted to go to grad school, but I got a little burnt out. 

03:57
I want to take a year off so I needed a job. 

03:59
In the meantime, um, I got a part-time gig working at the players club at the casino I'd been playing at. After a few months, I went to dealer school and I transferred to the table games department. My favorite game to deal was like double deck blackjack. I also dealt my fair share of like shoe games to the average Joe's, like the six and eight deck games, and during that time, any ridiculous take about gambling that you could imagine I've heard come out of somebody's mouth. Um, so, yeah, during my stint as a dealer, I started playing no limit hold'em cash games. Um, so that's probably really how I first started taking gambling seriously. That was probably around 2012 2013 yeah, interesting. 

04:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Um, from the casino side of things, usually the origin story either starts in sports betting or starts in poker. Uh, yours is is definitely a little different. So when did you move into the sports betting? Or starts in poker? Yours is definitely a little different. So when did you move into the sports betting space per se? And maybe you're not even in the sports betting space, but based off of what I know about your account and the verbiage you use and the people that you tend to go after, it does seem like you do have a fairly advanced knowledge in sports betting. So where did that first come about? 

05:09 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I think you kind of have to backtrack a little bit further to when I started playing poker because, yeah, I my poker knowledge and and that's really how I got into gambling you know, almost 10 years before I ever made a sports bet uh, for some of my like first real experiences, like as a better, um, we're playing poker. 

05:23
You know, driving to new orleans, louisiana, or like bluxey, mississippi, uh, for the weekend trying to like play some, some cash games because I couldn't gamble the casino I worked at, um, there's some really juicy games. New orleans at the time, a lot of times like tourists would come into the poker room it's just a short walk off of bourbon street and if you know how to show them a good time, a lot of times these guys would have like no problem opening up their wallets. So, yeah, I had moderate success like as a poker player. I wouldn't say I had like a GTO or like optimal play style, but yeah, I started like studying more, learning like some bankroll management techniques. But honestly, like some of these guys were just so bad that if you could isolate them and just go up against them they're really like minus EV play styles You'd have a really good chance to make some money. So yeah, I eventually quit my job as a dealer to play poker for a living probably somewhere around like 2015. 

06:13
I figured at that point in my life I'd save some money up, I'd like a good feel for the low stakes games in my area, and I thought like if I didn't take a shot to like play poker at that point in my mid-20s, like would I ever get this opportunity in the future? Um see, after about six months and a pretty massive downswing, I realized that like grinding cash games for a living probably wasn't for me. Um, my poker dream turned into like somewhat of a nightmare, right. Um, I was playing cards hours away until like five in the morning every night versus like drunk fools and other regs trying to like extract their money. Something like clicked in my head at the tables one night that like maybe having steady income and pay time off and benefits wasn't all that bad. So I gave up the idea of like being a poker player. I moved to Colorado with the intention of getting another dealing job. 

07:00
I failed in my dream, but you know what, like that was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. I have zero regrets. Um, failing at that age was probably something I needed to learn. Um, it humbled me. It made me realize there's nothing wrong with like earning an honest living and like grinding out cash games or trying to gamble in other ways it's like a side hobby. So, um, in may 2020, like I said, sports betting went legal in colorado. 

07:23
Um, the casinos are like over an hour drive from where I live you have to go up into blackhawk in the mountains yeah during the winter time it's it's not very fun to make that drive, uh, but yeah, so, um, I was furloughed from my job. The poker action was kind of you know it was. It was definitely dead um, as a result of the pandemic. So I decided to download fan duel and draft king so that I could bet on the nba bubble. 

07:45
Um, I really didn't expect to make money from sports betting. I was doing it as like entertainment while I was furloughed from my job during the pandemic. Um, I thought I knew ball. I put in reality I was a terrible. Better, I had no idea what I was doing. It like wasn't fun to me like continually lose money. So I kind of like started changing my mindset to go like out of my way to learn not necessarily how to even win, but how not to lose. 

08:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Got. It Makes a lot of sense on the poker side of things. Just out of curiosity, because it's a interesting background story and you've been very open about um, um, yeah, like that, that entire journey. Do you did, let's say, the level of competition catch up to you in poker? Did you not have the edge that you thought you had in the first place? Like what was what ultimately led to the failure on the poker side of things? 

08:33 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
out of curiosity, yeah, I think maybe just getting into good spots early on like made me have like an inflated, like sense of ego and I thought I was better than I really was. And uh, you know, and poker, you know people can make mistakes and can give you money. Essentially, I've played in tournaments before where god literally went all in every hand because he wanted to go play a different game, you know. So things like that um made me probably think I was better than I was. And um, you know, young guys in their early 20, early to mid 20s, they get some success and they think that they're a hotshot and really good. And, you know, going on like a 20 buy and downswing kind of made me realize maybe I'm not as good as this or good as good at this, rather, as I thought I was initially. 

09:18 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, makes a lot of sense and I can attest to very similar maybe a little bit younger than that as well. But you know, sometimes success gets to your head in some ways or another and you lose sight of what's ahead of you On the sports betting side of things now. So you know, you mentioned that you're trying to learn about sports betting. In a sense you thought you knew ball, but that didn't translate to success. What was like, I don't want to say the light, light bulb moment, but what path did you go down to actually improve as a sports better? 

09:49 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
so I started a podcast with some friends during the 2020 football season to discuss our bets and analysis. It was just mostly for fun. I, you know, I like doing some creative things. Obviously, like, running the spin influencer account is kind of how that's morphed but, um, that's the best thing that ever happened for my betting career, even if I wasn't still winning better at that time because, uh, looking back at it, I didn't even know how little I knew. Um, I just enjoyed like talking, talking shop with my buddies and like the production aspect. But, um, we shared our plays each episode and I, like I couldn't decide how we wanted to track our plays in like a fair manner. I always bet everything mentioned but, like, by the time the episodes were published, lines would be stale. My friends would share plays that they hadn't yet bet themselves. It's like to the point where, like, the podcast took me a couple of days to produce, so it just led about to like some disagreements about how to proceed. So, yeah, during that time, I created my personal Twitter account. I started essentially like using it as like a sports betting journal. Um, I would share, like my takes, my bet slips, primarily as a way to like keep myself accountable. Yeah, um, I connected with some you know, internet strangers who had similar interests in sports betting and I learned a lot from those conversations. That taught me more of the ins and outs that I was probably unaware of beforehand. But, um, I really like started reading more like sports betting forum. I spent a lot of time like sports book categories on reddit. 

11:07
Um, in late 2021, one of my podcast co-hosts he made a road trip from louisiana, uh, to where he lives in on the east coast and he like stopped in every state along the way to get the sign-up bonuses from every sports book. Um, I just thought it was like a pretty genius way to make some easy money. So, in 2022, I decided to use the information I'd gained over my first two years of sports betting to try to like figure out how to do that and make it myself. I'd already signed up for every sports book in Colorado to maximize the signup bonuses. I gave me like a few thousand dollars for a bankroll to like give it a shot. So that March I went torizona. I planned on signing up for every sportsbook there. I came back with nearly double my measly bankroll after just one weekend. So I figured like what's stopping me from trying this in every single state, right? So the next month I planned a solo trip where I went, pretty much I went to the midwest and in the states and I tried to sign up for every single sportsbook. Um, I did a four, four day trip where I went to the Midwest and the States and I tried to sign up for every single sports book. I did a four-day trip where I went to Iowa, illinois, indiana, michigan. 

12:10
At the time you were able to sign up for new accounts in every single state for certain sports books. One of these sports books I don't want to mention particular names because I don't want to get banned, but there was deposit matches, there was risk-free bets, all that fun stuff. And at a certain point we realized with one of the sports books, if you didn't deposit for a couple days, they would send you a $500 deposit match. You could then use their money and your money to stack it together for the risk-free bet. So I started hedging Nerfiesfies and your fees between these books and I was getting more down, um, like via my really very healthy fan dual and draftings accounts if I needed to. 

12:53
So, yeah, I don't know if like losing thousands of dollars. Betting on these degenerate derivative markets was good for my account, health. But deposit matches between those four states were just coming in left and right. I was just driving back and forth between all those places for like four days, posting up at Airbnbs near the border. I saw my bankroll go from $3,000 to like over $15,000 with virtuals like zero risk. It probably could have been a little bit higher, but there was some human error that came in to play on a few occasions. But yeah, I proceeded to do the same thing on the East Coast. A few months later I spent two weeks traveling from New York to DC and everywhere in between and just from sports book promos. That year I was able to turn roughly $3,000 into maybe 25,000 with virtually no risk. 

13:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, that's smart. I mean, we no longer live in the days of that excessive type of promotion. I do remember I can only speak from my experience in Ontario and Jacob my producer as well when sportsbooks opened up in Ontario everyone was trying to capture market share as much as possible and you got some crazy offers. Nowadays you don't see those offers as much anymore. So what kind of sports betting do you focus on now? Because previously you were essentially using these promos to create risk-free bets for yourself. Um, obviously that's kind of faded. I mean, I know of some people doing that in like casino comps and stuff like that nowadays, but in sports I don't hear of that anymore. So what? What kind of uh, sports betting do you focus on nowadays? 

14:27 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
yeah, they've definitely done a better job of like getting their whole their hook into people so they don't need to give away free money to everyone now. So but yeah, now I definitely shifted my focus over to futures. My primary focus college football futures during the off season and spreads and totals for college football during the regular season. Last year I gave my first shot at trying to originate win totals, conference futures and make or miss playoff markets. 

14:52
I had moderate success in 2024, but it was a great learning lesson for me that originating is incredibly difficult compared to trying to win from like a simply top-down approach or just from abusing promos um, on the future side of things, I always find it interesting. 

15:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I interviewed a futures better before on this channel. Count the money. Uh was the alias that he went by. Uh, and I know of more and more people who are just betting exclusively futures which, honestly, just speaking from you know, my point of view is kind of like unheard of. What was the reason for focusing in on those markets like, was it so you didn't have to spend as much time betting on a daily basis? Was it that, uh, there's way more low hanging fruit? Why did you choose futures as the avenue to focus on? 

15:37 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I think both of those things are definitely part of it. You know, like I have a job, I don't do this for a living. I I am a winning bettertor, but after my poker experiences. 

15:46
I never really thought that I would want to be a professional sports bettor. I'm way too risk-averse personally. But yeah, it seems like some of the markets are a little bit slower to react to news, easier to pick off. But also just from tracking my plays, my ROI is just substantially higher betting futures than it has been betting other markets. I know what I know and I know what I don't know, and I don't know about a lot of sports. So if I look back at my tracking over the past couple years, I'm not a good NBA better. So you know what I decided to do. I decided to stop betting on the NBA. It was that simple for me, yeah good for you. 

16:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean not a lot of people, I mean some people will go about tracking themselves, but then they don't use the actual results and the analysis to better their approach in any way. So it's you know, it's encouraging to hear that, that you're doing stuff like that. If I could, if I, let's just say, proposed a hypothetical here and I told you you can only bet one market, market, one type of market for the next five years, would you still focus on futures, or do you think that maybe a year or two from now, you could be tempted by something else? 

16:56 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I mean, I never want to say that I definitely want to do specifically futures for a specific amount of time period, but, like, if you didn't like hold a gun to my head and told me you could only bet one market, I would personally stick with the futures myself, just because it's like the perfect balance for someone like me who has a job and, uh, especially with football season, um, it's, it's really nice because during the off season I can do an adequate amount of research, I can find edges, um, I don't have to think about sports betting 24 7, 365. Um, yeah, it's just where I've had the most success. I think that you know, with like futures, you still get the joy of a nice payout that many casual sports bettors are looking for. It keeps my accounts healthy. They're typically slower to move on sharp action or news, also just way easier to beat from a top-down perspective as well. 

17:42
If you have access to multiple books, sometimes the synthetic hold can be virtually zero. People say these markets, oh, the hold is so high. But if you have access to 10 sports books, you can get that number way down. I also just really like the delayed gratification that comes with it. It's just a big positive for me. A lot of people don't want to tie up their bankroll from once on end, so I think that kind of leads to these markets being like a little bit less competitive. But yeah, I personally would probably say I would stick to betting futures just because that's what I've been best at and that's what I think I've had the most success with. 

18:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I like the thought on the delayed gratification. I think that's something that's very real, that I've experienced before as well. You would have probably heard me in some Twitter spaces before and when I go in, I typically tend to ask a pretty simple question to some people, which is what is your edge? Where does your edge come from? So I actually just want to ask you the same question, because you talked about the fact that you're not a pro better, but you do have a positive ROI, betting especially on these futures. How do you go about finding an edge in these markets? Are you a big numbers guy? Is it more about instincts and market feel? Is it mostly top down? I mean, how would you go about your positive ROI and futures? 

18:56 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I usually just flip a coin and then just see how it lands, and that's how I make my decisions. No, you got to flip three, three coins. 

19:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh, okay, Well, I guess with the future is it going of? 

19:10 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
changes things a little bit, but no, I would say I'm a numbers guy. You know I've I grew up like as a big baseball fan. The statistics are just a great part of anyone that likes numbers is going to like sports betting, in my opinion. Um, I like making models. I still have a lot of learning to do but honestly I feel like a lot of times these futures markets are just so egregiously mispriced that it would be harder for me to find the same opportunities in other markets. Just an example for instance, last year I'd made Boise to win the Mountain West about 50%. Right when the FanDuel market opened I saw them posting them at plus 200. It was just a no-brainer spot to grab. Of course, by the time the season kicked off, boise was around plus 100 to win the conference. 

19:48
Numerous other bets I made over the offseason. Seeing like positive CLV and like my expected ROI being pretty high, I felt pretty good about my process. But yeah, you know like sometimes these things are just very obvious. Another good example is like Indiana win total in college football last season. It opened at five and a half. The really shitty models that I made had projected them to win like 8.6 games. So, like anyone who knew anything about their schedule, though and they're like Kurt Cignetti, new head coach brought a lot of players from the. The transfer portal could have just looked at that number and just realized five and a half wins was just way too low, right. So like for me personally, like using a qualitative and quantitative approach in tandem seems to work best. What I'm doing is probably a little bit more of an art than a science, but nothing really like helps solidify what I decided, that more than the numbers, Would you consider yourself a high volume futures? 

20:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
better or more? Let's say, someone who takes a more selective approach? 

20:49 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I mean, if you ask my girlfriend if I was a high volume, better she would say yes. But to anyone who like really gambles, absolutely not. I'm almost like too price sensitive to my own detriment and I really need to love something for me to let like a futures ticket sit for months on end. 

21:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Right, I was going to. I was going to ask you a follow-up, which was based off of bankroll management, cause I've talked about I've talked to this on this concept with many futures bettors before, because typically and this is probably the case for you, especially the college football futures you're betting those and they're not settling until a long time after you're actually betting them. So how do you deal with bankroll management when it comes to that type of stuff? Do you allocate like a certain percentage of bankroll to preseason futures and save some for in-season and things of that nature? Is that even something you think about? 

21:42 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Yeah, I definitely think about it. I probably say last year I went a little bit too heavy on the futures, to where I probably tied up a little bit too much of my bankroll. But, like, what differs me from like professional bettors in regard to bankroll management is that, like I have a static bankroll of $10,000. Like, as long as my bankroll is $10,000. You know that's I never scale and that's probably a conversation for another day. But having the benefit of having a regular paycheck is that I can supplement my bankroll as I need to. Ideally, I probably don't want more than 50% of my bankroll tied up on futures. 

22:12
Hedge opportunities are a big part of betting futures for me. Things can change quickly in sports. Sometimes being able to buy out of a position is necessary. I know things can change quickly in sports. Sometimes being able to like buy out of positions necessary. I like to leave that option open If I don't have the money available to exit a position. That could end up getting me into some trouble when it comes to like preservation of capital. So yeah, as like a bankroll knit risk of ruin is like not something I want to deal with, but I think maybe 50% for myself is probably fair, just to leave myself some opportunity, yeah. 

22:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
My favorite things to ask. Futures betters often revolve around their biggest wins, because oftentimes they're huge, substantial paydays you know I've had. I know of people's lives who changed from, like Joe Burrow Heisman, you know, even looking at GRP wins on twitter and how his life is changing from his futures bets as well. So I do want to ask you what your best win was uh, on a futures bet. 

23:05 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
But I also want to ask you what your worst beat was on a futures bet as well it's like hard to pick like a specific, because I'm playing a lot of long, long shots, but, uh, my best win was probably like actually a series of wins. Um, so, during my traveling promo tour if you want to call it that during 2022, I was also riding one of the greatest tennis streaks of our generation and igas fiontek uh, world number one women's tennis player ash bardy retired abruptly in march of 2022 and igas fiontek proceeded to win six straight tournaments, I think, and she went on 37 match win streak longest in the 21st century. Um, I had bet all of her futures to win all six tournaments, had great prices on her to win the French open that year and the U S open that year. 

23:49
Um, those are wagers I placed before Barty retired and it just worked out in my favor. Um, yeah, that was probably the best series of wins. And having that, you know, happen, you know, coinciding rather with my bankroll growing through the promo abuse, probably was the best series of wins that I've had. Did you ask about my worst losses? Did you say? 

24:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, like your worst. It could be your worst loss. It could be your worst loss. Typically, I think of it as a worst beat because oftentimes some people will have something that's really close to a huge payday and maybe they don't hedge or something like that, and it just never comes to fruition. I've had situations like that before. So you can structure it however you want Worst loss, worst beat but I like to get the flip side of things as well and people not just sharing their best wins their best wins, of course. 

24:39 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Um man 2023. I did have a pretty decent number of tickets on washington to win the national championship at plus 3000. Um, I had a lot of like yes, men in my ear telling me like don't hedge, don't hedge, like they got this, and I honestly thought, like michael pennix jr, and that offense could keep keep up with Michigan, the title game, so that wouldn't hurt. Um, technically, the year before it might have been a worse beat. I had TCU 150 to one to win the national championship. They got absolutely demolished by Georgia that year. Luckily, I did have a Georgia ticket as well, so obviously a little bit different. 

25:12
But if you're going based strictly on the numbers of 150 to one, losing, uh, but honestly, like, I feel like one of my better qualities is like being able to let the bad beats fade from my memory pretty quickly. Um, I definitely remember like more of the bets that went my way than the ones that didn't. And when you bet a lot of long shots, it's pretty reasonable to expect most of them to lose. So I kind of have to, you know, assume, if I'm, you know, betting a futures bet that's plus 5 000, that it's probably going to lose most times rather than not I find it very interesting that you remember your wins more than your losses, especially start coming from a poker background or, you know, having been a pro poker player. 

25:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Because, um, subjectively I mean the amount of people I've talked to over the course of my life and when this conversation comes up, it does feel to me like most people tend to remember the biggest losses over the biggest wins, or maybe like it's more yeah, more people tend to remember the biggest losses. I know specifically from when I was playing poker in my early 20s. I can remember very few big wins, but I can remember the biggest pots I lost. So I just actually found that interesting. Might say a little bit of you in terms of, like, your personality, traits or characteristics, and maybe mine as well. 

26:29 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Well, the funny thing is, like my poker bad beats I can remember like the daytime and what I was wearing when they happened, you know. But the sports betting, for some reason maybe's just a volume of of bets over time and kind of just letting the like I said, the long shots just fade from my memory. Um, yeah, the poker poker bad beats definitely stick out a little bit more for some reason, because maybe because it's so abrupt. But, um, the sports betting, I feel like I've been pretty good about letting go Some of the stuff that's obviously with spreads and totals. I've had things go south very quickly in some games. You remember the guy throwing the cleat in the LSU-Florida game back in the day I think I had Florida Moneyline in a 10-leg parlay. Ironic part is I went to LSU so I had to root against. My own team Ended up winning that game. So yeah, I have bad beats in my memory and like they're fun stories, but nothing like that's like painful after all this time. 

27:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So yeah, it's interesting. I mean, as you were giving me the answer, I was trying to think of like my best wins and, oddly for me, the wins I can think of were the wins I had when I was chasing big losses and I put it all on one game and I needed that game to come through or else I was in big trouble. And this is very much when I was younger, but those are the ones I can remember and I'm sure I've cashed a lot of big futures in the last half decade. But it's really hard for me like pinpoint one, which is odd. I mean, maybe I gotta do some internal self I remember the opposite. 

28:03 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Like I remember big chase, I um the uh bucks super bowl win. Yeah, I like completely. I had so much money on the chiefs like for me at the time. Uh got crushed the next day. One of the worst beats of my life. I was so close to winning it all back on a parlay. One of the worst beats of my life. Okc Lakers random game, Lakers win-draw-win a big late Ended up winning it overtime because they blew the game on some just ridiculous plays. But yeah, that sticks to me. 

28:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, it's funny looking back on all this stuff. Let's do a little bit more forward looking, though. Um, actually, I guess this is still backward looking, but we'll get into forward looking as well. Uh, spin fluencer, I'm pronouncing that correctly. 

28:47 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Yes, you are. Yeah, it's. Um, it's. It's a double Formula One meme called Spinalla S-B-I-N-A-L-L-A. There's a bunch of funny videos on YouTube, but it's essentially when cars spin out and someone does something dumb in a race. These really funny guys on YouTube make these videos. I kind of tied those two things in together. Most people in the States don't care whatsoever about Formula one, so, um, that's how I've decided to pronounce it SB influencer. Like when people say that, it just makes me cringe a little bit. 

29:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I could see that being painful. If you meant if you wanted it to be something completely different. I thought it was SB influencer for a while. I believe when we first talked about your account on circle back, we were using SB influencerluencer. I see the meme now. I had seen it before. It's Mattia Bonotto. I think that is that former Ferrari director. I mean it is. It is you got to admit it's. You know, for someone to know that off the top of their head and put things together as Spinfluencer it'd be a little bit challenging. 

29:56 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Capitalize the B in the name. You know I could understand that if there's a space in between, but with twitter handles and things of that nature probably makes it a little bit more complicated. But I'm happy to clarify for anyone that it's actually spinfluencer with a b. I know it sounds like spinfluencer sometimes, which is obviously what that's going for, but it worked out too well in this case that I couldn't not use the name Got it? 

30:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What made you start that account? So I now know, after seeing you and chatting with you this week in preparation for this interview, that I've seen you before on Twitter as under your own personal name and we don't have to give that out or anything, I imagine it's just going to get out there. But you had your own personal account, which was different. It was more of your own personal life experiences and stuff of that nature. Then you create this spinfluencer account what? What made you decide to to create kind of like this brand, so to speak? 

30:50 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
so, as someone who had like found slight success winning at sports betting, but like trying to do things the right way, just by sharing my picks for free and just using my, my personal Twitter as like a journal, like I said, I noticed it was really like getting me nowhere in terms of like getting my name out there. Meanwhile, there was like these people that were using scummy methods or tactics and they're just growing these large followings selling picks, you know, based on what I considered them selling like false hopes and dreams. So when I talk to people who know nothing like about sports betting, like a lot of times their initial reaction is that it's impossible to make money from gambling, no matter what I say. Meanwhile, these sports betting influencers were sometimes able to like convince casual bettors, and they're sometimes they were able to convince like the casual bettors that they're experts in this field and like that didn't like really sit right with me for some reason. So, yeah, the podcast I created with my friends. It kind of grown stale, got more difficult to like coordinate when to schedule it. 

31:48
So I had the idea to create some type of content that would essentially be like this week in gambling Twitter. I wanted to use the spin fluencer account to like save some of the regularly scheduled bad takes we see across gambling Twitter to use as topics of conversation. Unfortunately for me, circleback kind of beat us to the market and came out shortly after that. So over time I just started sharing my opinions on gambling Twitter from that account, kind of to keep the clutter off my main account but maybe a little bit to take the heat off myself as well. 

32:18
Yeah, I definitely didn't expect the account to grow as much, but there were like some signs along the way that it was connecting with more people in the space and I like originally thought it would. I noticed like people like Spanky and like Jeffrey Benson, even like book it with Trent, was following my account and just like other big names, even when the account was still small. So I figured like I must have been doing something right. Getting into arguments with the likes of like Taylor Mathis and creating some content like the Life of a Spendfluencer series. Those definitely like helped grow my account. 

32:49
Yeah, I also think just like interacting with like my audience and like incorporating some of the information they fed me was like it probably went a long way towards towards building it up as fast as has grown yeah, I think that there's a lot for me to unpack there. 

33:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So, on the circle back thing, I'm sorry we I we had, you know, we had that in the works for a while and it was just like we got us. We got to finally do this and see if it, if it takes us anywhere, so had to do that. I'm sorry that it came at the expense of you doing a show as well. But, um, on the the account idea and you know what you stand for this isn't a novel concept in the sense that many people have tried to do what you're doing before. Um, I wouldn't say and this don't mean this as disrespect Let me just really quickly look at the follower amount, at the amount of recording, but think something like 4 000 followers. I saw you tweet about that recently. Uh, yeah, just over 4 000 followers. Not a huge account, but it seems like everyone is kind of in the know about the account. Right now. 

33:50
You've kind of made that breakthrough, whereas so many before you have failed at doing the same thing. There was like this tmz style account before that failed. There was a few before there that just couldn't pick up. What do you think it is about your account in specific, that is like resonating with the people. Like spanky myself, benson, you know other people in the industry because you know you're a self-proclaimed um sharp but not a pro sports better or anything like that. What? What is it specifically about that account that you think resonates with people? 

34:27 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I think a lot of people don't like seeing what a lot of these influencers are doing. Um, you know, pick selling has a you know, a bad connotation with it. A lot of people are doing it in a way that's disingenuous and I I think using like shame and humor is a way that a lot of people on gambling Twitter like to interact, including myself. Um, but that's just really how I learned. If I said something dumb for my personal Twitter account, like the people who I would consider sharp would call me out, and I would learn from that. 

34:58
And I think, just, even though I am running the account, you know, as an anonymous person, I still do share my real, genuine takes and my honest opinion, and it's nothing I wouldn't say otherwise. But I think, being able to honestly call out people, maybe with a little bit less fear of repercussion than I'll suffer after doing this, but I think, just trying to make people laugh, using entertainment to help people realize, hey look, this is probably not the person you want to give your money to let's call people out whenever they deserve to and then, if other people want to pile in more power to them, people out whenever they deserve to and then if other people want to pile in more power to them, but I think, just like using humor and uh and really trying to shame people, has gone a long way into to eating, into growing the account a little bit further on the opposite end of the spectrum, so I'm a big fan of the account. 

35:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I know a lot of sharp people are as well. Maybe it doesn't resonate as much with the more casual audience, because these are the people that tend to employ a lot of the tendencies that you would normally be picking on. Do you have people that reach out to you separately and are like you're going too hard on this person or the act is not. You know, this shtick is not good. Do you see a lot of the other side of that as well? 

36:15 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Not as much as I would have expected. To be completely honest with you, I definitely have, like, some people who dislike me and some of the things I said. I'm like I've I've made mistakes in the past, like I've been too quick to act upon information and people have called me out and I've misspoken Um, usually things that like get me angry, I'm going to react too quicker and sometimes that's probably prevented me from like rationally thinking through posting something first. But, um, honestly, I've got way more positive feedback, even from, like, casual gamblers just telling me like, thank you for what you're doing, we appreciate you. We need more people in the space like you and, um, the feedback that I've gotten from people has been overwhelmingly positive, and usually, when someone gives me negative feedback, it's usually because they don't like what I'm doing, rather than the other way around. Got it? 

37:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Has running the account changed the way that you see the sports betting industry? 

37:08 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Oh, absolutely. It made me realize there's a lot more people in this industry who are really good at marketing, while being mediocre at sports betting, than I ever could have thought. I guess when I was on just my own personal account, I was more of in a smaller bubble. But yeah, I would say it probably taught me how to market my own content a little bit better, to realize some of the things. Hey, these are probably the things I don't want to do more so than what I do want to do, but I would say, overall, it's probably made me a little bit more pessimistic towards the sports betting landscape than I was a few years ago. Um, somewhere along the line, every shameless idiot came to the realization that it's easier to become an influencer than it is to become a wing better and scale bankroll do you, um, do you think that you can change that mentality like, let me, let me rephrase do you ever become defeated in what you're trying to do? 

38:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
like you know, that's what you're talking about is the overwhelming majority of the betting space, and I could just say from a personal standpoint I join these Twitter spaces pretty regularly that that elf, our guest last week, puts on, and it really opened my eyes to like how many people are in the betting space that I've never heard about before, that have amassed much bigger followings than I ever have. More people know about them. Uh, very clear grifters in my opinion, but it almost seems like you know, putting one person in their place and kind of exposing what they're doing has such a a small impact on the entire space as a whole. That's me personally. Do you ever feel the same way that I do? 

38:49 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Oh, absolutely I. I try to look at it as if I can help. Even one person realize like, hey, maybe this isn't who I want to give my money to, um, then I like to think I'm doing something good, um, but honestly, yeah, it does hurt sometimes to know, like, even if I am giving them a bigger platform as well. Um, like this official Watson guy who I did the life of a life of a spin influencer series on Um I don't know if he's lying or if he's, you know, actually, if it's happening, but he's like oh, thanks, you've given me more views and I'm getting more subscriptions. So, like it's, it's a double-edged sword. Um, if I'm saving one person or I'm falling for scummy tactics, then there might be someone else who is falling for it eventually. So, yeah, it's a fine line. 

39:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I like to think that, overall, I'm having a net positive in this space, but, um, it's really hard to say, to be completely honest, yeah, I think for me, a lot of it, a lot of um, the feelings I have, or like being defeated, so to speak, stem from how hard I had to work, like again losing better for a long portion of my childhood and even like early adulthood, how hard I had to work to make, let's even say, my first hundred thousand dollars in sports betting and then my first $500,000 in sports betting and first milk, like those were milestones that I I had to work so hard at. And now I see people candidly I'm not saying that they're not working hard, because I actually do think that they are working hard to amass these followings but they're doing it in such a way that I find to be disgusting, frankly, honestly, just like either selling lies to people or selling, you know, false aspirational dreams and things of that nature, and it just bothers me. It really aggravates me to the point where I find that I then become a little bit consumed by it and I, like I over obsess with it. Right, you can almost look at my beef with Simon Hunter, which I think is pretty public now, whereas you know, I don't like people who misrepresent themselves and misrepresent their knowledge to an audience. 

41:05
I think it's very dangerous. But it also it almost becomes an obsession to me where it actually just starts to take away from my my own life in a sense. And then I get to a point where I take a step back and I'm like, why am I even doing this at this point? Like I feel like I might be helping people, but also I'm investing a lot of time and energy into this and I'm getting really aggravated and frustrated by this whole experience. Do you ever go through similar oh, absolutely. 

41:31 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I mean it's definitely depressing sometimes just hearing to these health spaces and some of these guys who are like known scammers not even like just grifters, like actual scammers and it does like it's sad, it's really depressing. And the fact that you know, like you said, to scale your bankroll to where you got it. I mean even when I was doing the promo tour where I was just signing up for sports books, I mean even that was work to me. I realized at a certain point I was like man, I feel like a truck driver going to different states just to place bets. I had to take flights and book hotels and like schedule all these things and even if it wasn't hard work, it was still work. 

42:09
So to know like some people are posting, you know like a long shot parlay and growing a you knowubs, a dub club subscription where they're making like six figures a year just off of like running hot, at a certain point it just it definitely hurts a little bit. I mean it probably slowed down my betting a little bit, but I don't let it consume me. I've I've been pretty good about putting the phone down whenever I know I need to and I'm not logging into the spinfluencer account from like the actual Twitter app and just using like Safari on my phone so I don't get notifications. 24-7 has made it a little bit easier whenever, like I'm at work or other things, to just not pay attention to it. 

42:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, it makes sense. How much time do you actually spend on this as a whole and like does it take? I mean, you did say that it takes away a little bit from your own day-to-day betting. Does it take away from day-to-day life? Are there other sacrifices that you've had to make in order to continuously run this account? 

43:08 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Probably spend, I hate to admit it, but like two to three hours a day scrolling on Twitter. 

43:13
I don't really use like other social media platforms, so like I probably would be spending that time just like doom scrolling or something else, like over that same time period. But I am, you know, like interacting with like my betting groups and stuff like that at the same time, so it's not like fully dedicated to just looking at twitter or just like, oh, over and over again I'm scrolling the same things. Um, it's definitely my betting volume is it's pretty low regardless. But by this point of last year, um, going into march, I probably had like 20 futures bets already made and I think this year, in terms of college football, I have two. So it's probably hurt my research a little bit, um, but it's still early. I've got like six months before I need to be fully vested in the college football and there's plenty of time that I can do research and, yeah, I don't want to let it take away from my betting completely, but overall it hasn't been that big of a hindrance and my girlfriend probably says I use a little bit too much. 

44:13
But here I am, yeah. 

44:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I get that from my wife too. As soon as she hears the twitter spaces in the background, she's like the eye roll happens and it's like not this again. Um, have you ever gone after someone, um, and regretted it, or like posted something, a particular post, that you've regretted? 

44:34 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
if you want me to say I'm sorry for calling you out for the masterclass, Rob, then I apologize. I probably was a little too quick to react, I think just based on that video that got put on Twitter. It was so cringeworthy for the Sharp community to watch that I probably was a little quick to react on that. So if you want an apology, here we are. 

44:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I was going to ask you about that later on, so I wasn't necessarily looking for an apology at this particular point. Um, I, by the way, I I get that and like now that I'm kind of like it's blown over and I'm more removed from the situation, I can understand the perspective a lot more. And what people don't know is um, again, I'll say this for about the millionth time people think I got like rich off of that masterclass and I didn't negotiate. They basically what they offered me I took and that was it, and I wouldn't you know. Anyways, I didn't get rich off of that, but I heavily consulted on the class itself. I put together like the curriculum for the class, but I did not do anything related to marketing that class. 

45:42
And when that first marketing video came out, it was also the first time that I saw that and, yeah, I mean it wouldn't have resonated with me had it been someone else doing it as well. So in hindsight I do get it. I'm not a marketer. I'm like a horrible marketer of myself. I always have been. I find a lot of marketing practices to be like you're intentionally, you know, telling lies in a lot of cases to get your stuff out there. It just doesn't really resonate with me, but in hindsight, for all the people that I responded to and got upset at in that moment, I was probably in the wrong as well, because I can see how that would have come across. 

46:19 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Yeah, I, I, I respect that you could say that, but uh, if, speaking of other instances, you know now that we got that out of the way, um, yeah, I probably made uh on a couple of different occasions. Like, like I said earlier, I probably, like acted too abruptly, um, I saw something that made me angry, overreacted and just like regretted posting certain things. 

46:40
Maybe it didn't do enough research on something that someone sent me and it made me angry and if I had looked into it for a few more minutes probably would have, you know, not done such a thing. But I do think one of my best character traits is being able to admit when I'm wrong. We all make mistakes. There's so many times on gambling Twitter where people double and triple down on a bad take and just absolutely bury themselves, and when I mess up I try to come out, correct myself, admit fault. I'll delete the posts of things that I got wrong. Otherwise, I'm no better than some of the people I'm criticizing. 

47:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep, totally get that. One thing that I love about your account is a more recent addition, which is the spinfluencer power rankings. So I'll tell you a story now. But you mentioned that circle back beat you to the punch on getting that type of lifestyle show out there, just talking about the drama of gambling Twitter. You beat us to the punch on the Spinfluencer power rankings because that was supposed to be a segment of the show that we were going to do stock up, stock down type of situation, and we didn't do it because you did it. It's become pretty entertaining. You just update it on a weekly basis and, for those that don't know, sb is just basically ranking. It's become pretty entertaining. You just update it on a weekly basis and for those that don't know, sb is just basically ranking. I don't, you know what. I'll let you describe what the list is in and of itself and then give me the idea of what the inspiration was behind that. 

48:11 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Like like you kind of brought up. You know, a lot of success on social media comes from like striking while the iron's hot. I believe I posted my first power rankings listening to the elf spaces with bo wagner. It was a short list, just bo wagner, taylor mathis and man of the library. Um started as like a cheeky way to beat the dead horse of the day, but people like really seem to enjoy some of the spin influencers being called out for their takes. It's meant to be funny but it's been like entertaining to to see how the list has evolved as it's continued to grow. You know there's 10,000 of these people nowadays, so this list is going to just continue to evolve over time. But yeah, the power rankings are like obviously picking fun of everyone that's on it. Some influencers genuinely think it's like something they want to be a part of. I've had people reach out to me and ask to be put on the list on more than one occasion, which I find like equally ironic and humorous every time it happens, grp yeah, grp was what I mean. 

49:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I I gotta tell you from my perspective, I see stuff like that. It's the biggest attention seeking behavior possible. It's like I want to be lumped in with all these other people. Put more eyes. It's like the most narcissistic thing, imagine, or ego, egomaniac type of thing. But yeah, sorry, sorry to interrupt. You can continue there absolutely. 

49:23 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Um, yeah, people sometimes don't realize like if you make the power rankings you probably messed up to get there in the first place, right? 

49:30 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
right, um, yeah, so what? What was the inspiration like? Where did the idea come from? 

49:34 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
it was was just like something you'd been thinking about for a while, or just what was it literally you just turned that space, is that one night, and it, like light bulb, went off in your head I think, probably a little bit of a light bulb, but also just like the types of content that people are putting on to gambling twitter or social media in general, for, like, I don't want to call it engagement farming, but it's kind of what it was, I'd you know, there's these, these lists that other people have made, or certain types of content that, um, it's fun to interact with. I think just at the time, I was just so baffled listening to Bo Wagner and I was just like, all right, these people, they definitely need to. I need to start categorizing in a certain way, um, the level of grift that is taking place in the gambling Twitter spaces from these influencers. 

50:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What's the ultimate red flag that screams to you? This person is a grifter. 

50:27 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Oh, man, I really like to focus on the people that are like the true spin influencers, like people who I think are making more money from like their influencer status than from like actually making money from sports betting more money from like their influencer status than from like actually making money from sports betting. Um, like the rankings are like obviously like very reactionary and like the model that we use, or I use, rather, is like it definitely accounts more for like recent mess-ups and bad takes than like any other factor, uh, but like, yeah, red flags to me is like man people who like share plays without any odds or any bets attached to them, or like that sizes. Um, that's that to me personally is like a huge red flag, but I think like the ultimate red flag overall is like anyone flaunting material items, such as like expensive jewelry or like a flashy lifestyle to give themselves legitimacy. Um, unfortunately, owning a rolex and a million dollar mansion doesn't make someone a winning sports fighter. 

51:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep, totally see that. I mean, the vast majority of people might not be able to see that, but I do. On the opposite side of things, or if we flip it on its head, is there anyone out there right now who still has a solid reputation that you think shouldn't have a solid reputation? 

51:41 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
it's got to be ariel epstein, in my opinion. She's made so many connections across the sports betting space and I I really know that she's a good speaker. Um, you brought it up on circle back. Um, you know things that she's said in the past about I'm sorry, you know she has this prop queen website. I've kind of made plays on that before, but a lot of people I've talked to in like Vegas. They like they give her credibility and legitimacy. 

52:09
She knows sports, but not necessarily thinking in the sports betting space. I've never seen any proof that she's a winning better. I've tried to look at her picket and it doesn't show you. Um, it doesn't show your results if you're a loser on there all time. Um, so, yeah, I a lot of people I've spoken to, they they've come at me for criticizing her, but nothing that I've seen has indicated that she deserves a platform in the betting space. Um, granted, maybe in other sports I can see, or with baseball in particular, giving her a platform to talk about baseball but to relate it and the air of legitimacy that she has as a winning better or credible sports better, rather just someone that it's kind of bothered me a little bit. 

52:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I would tend to agree with you. So, you know, just from my perspective, I didn't know which name you were going to bring up here. Ariel, to me, is very knowledgeable when it comes to baseball, but being and some of the references that she metrics that she references, which are, you know, sabre metrics, statcast data I used to be able to tell you what exactly, what Sierra was, and I mean I still can and XFIP and stuff like that. But I'm not completely in tune with all the metrics that are available nowadays because I don't bet the sport anymore. But where I went wrong was thinking that an understanding of all these metrics was going to lead to success betting that sport and they often don't align. So I think that she's a an exception not a rare, not an exception, but like a rare instance where she's really well spoken about the sport and even the video she does. She's very well spoken into why she likes this pitcher strikeouts over for these reasons. But most of those are already factored into the market prices, which is, you know, really challenging for a lot of people understand. And there's also lots of arbitrary endpoints there as well, which is, you know, I've looked at the last four starts or seven starts or whatever, and that's challenging. But yeah, for me, on just a bit of a tangent, I talked about this when we recorded Circleback on Monday. Episode came out on Tuesday. But I find the double standards very interesting in the space. So if you take a look at when Ariel Epstein joined the Twitter spaces, what that looked like relative to when Matt Zilbert joined the Twitter spaces and what that looked like relative to when Matt Zilbert joined the Twitter spaces and what that looked like Now, ariel is much more well-spoken. 

54:47
I don't want to do like an intelligence comparison or anything like that, but she can defend herself really well and Matt struggled to do that. He lives in like he has like a different level of yeah, the same talking points over and over and things of that nature. But one of them was Ariel coming in making her cases known. No one really picking apart that and just everyone accepting is that okay, that's fine. And then Matt coming on doing the same. 

55:17
Granted, he is a little bit more of a provoker online, I totally get that, but that was just a you know, a one and a half hour roast of Matt Zilbert with like Spanky oddly defending him and Dan Lifshatz and stuff like that and I honestly just kind of like view them as kind of the same, where they're not really super harmless in any capacity. But I'm always interested in the dynamics of how this community operates and I think what I'm getting back to is your point that I think ariel has built, through friendships and being personable, um a lot more leeway on this type of stuff than matt has, who is where he's being confrontational with other people. So, um yeah, the market dynamics of not the betting market but gambling twitter always find a way to fascinate me yeah, it's, it's, it's really, I mean it's. 

56:15 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
It's such a weird dynamic a lot of times because, um, I know she doesn't sell plays, but you know, and neither does zilbert, for instance, but if you're in this space, it doesn't matter your gender, your race, um, no matter what you do, there's going to be somebody who doesn't like it. Yeah, um, I, I just personally matt zilbert's a hilarious guy, you know. I think you would agree with that. I don't think what he's doing is like per se, but he's not trying to sell anything. But, yeah, it's a very fine line and some people get a little bit more leeway than they deserve. Others probably don't get enough. So it's definitely an interesting topic. 

56:56 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There's definitely a fine line and no one is ever gonna agree to terms on what is being done here is right and this is wrong and this and that what I find with people like Ariel and Matt, uh, zilbert. I genuinely believe that both of them want to better the industry. I actually do believe that their intentions are true and they just want whether that's like more accessibility for females, maybe, maybe that's just like getting rid of a lot of the bad act. I genuinely believe that they both believe what they're saying and want to better the industry, and if we're doing like the totem pole, there's so much like worse than that. The problem is that there's a level of delusion to both of them, in my opinion, right when, like I don't believe that anyone will ever buy Ariel Epstein's like prop sheet, like cheat sheets or whatever, and that will turn them into a winning better. I don't believe that I could be wrong, but I don't believe that I don't believe that Matt Zilbert is a winning better in the long run based off of the way that he buys points like extremely selective in nature bets into major markets when they're like at efficiency, so to speak, like wrong. So, but I do think that there's something innate with both of them where they actually do want to make the industry better. 

58:19
For me, there's the bad actors, which are like a million times worse, where they know exactly what they are doing. They know that they're not winning. They're intentionally trying to mislead people to win, to believe that they're winning in the efforts to make money for themselves. And there are some arguments out there. Well, it's a free world, you know. If people are dumb enough to fall for that shit, then you know, survival of the fittest. That's one I just. 

58:46
I personally can't think that way. Those are the people that I, I just can never like back down from. Like Zalbert, I lost. I got rid of that beef a long time ago because I just realized who he is. Ariel I never really had a major issue with her in the first place. I mean, I've had her on Circles Off Channel. The first year we did Super Bowl props on here. I don't have a major issue with her, other than the fact that I think there's, like, again, a level of delusion there personally. But it's the ones that are coming on that know exactly what they are doing and they are just in it to extract money from unsuspecting people. Those are the people that, personally, I have just no, no room in my life for and no time for. 

59:33 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I definitely agree with that, yeah. 

59:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, Um, on the flip side of that question, have you ever looked into someone expecting to find a scammer or someone you wanted to go after and you were actually surprised to find out that they're legit? 

59:53 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
No, no, I'm kidding. To be honest with you, one of Elf's friends, brett Feinsod. I originally thought he was just another sports betting influencer After he botched a daily recap one day and I called him out for it. I've been proven otherwise that he is a winning bettor. I don't necessarily agree with some of his pick-selling tactics, but he definitely does win. 

01:00:19
His ego is just a little bit too big for his britches sometimes and if I was him, I'd probably represent myself in a little bit of a different manner. But I also do understand being like a young guy in your early 20s, you know, coming into hundreds of thousands of dollars of money and having like an inflated sense of reality, yeah, or ego as well. So overall, no, most times people I've looked into have been exactly what I expected. There are some winners who, um, are influencers. A lot of times the people that throw me off are people who have like top-down discords, um, just because sometimes I don't know if they're misrepresenting themselves as something else, like trying to come off as an originator, um, so those have led to, like me, kind of questioning certain people. But, um, yeah, brett feinstein, nba green beans I will give him some credit. He's he's proved me wrong over the past couple of months what you're speaking to. 

01:01:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There is like another category, category guys, categorization within itself. Um, that's the group of people that can actually win at betting, but they cannot pass on those winnings to their following, to the people who are buying their picks. Right, it's like, yeah, top-down better could very easily win betting. But now if a top-down better is selling to hundreds of clients, well, guess what? Not everyone's getting those numbers. In fact, a very, very small percentage of, and the whole philosophy of top-down is built off of picking the off-market price. So the minute that that price adjusts to market, there's no longer an edge there and you know everyone else is stuck holding the bag, so to speak. That, to me, is another cat. 

01:01:54
Now, I don't know enough about Brett to say that's what he's doing. I'm not suggesting it, but when you were talking there about, like you know, winning bettors, um, it just got me thinking into, like that other categorization. That's one that I see a lot nowadays, which is you're not, you're definitely not a loser. Very clearly, you could, you, you know how to win, but it's, can you now sell, like, basically pass off those winnings to your following? And most people, I find, have a really hard time doing that and most people I find have a really hard time doing. 

01:02:27 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
That. I definitely agree. And also, that's, you know, the all touts are bad argument is definitely like ties into what you say there, because I mean, if you're tailing someone who's doing a top-down approach, you're going to cook your accounts. You know, I would assume most people who are buying picks or paying subscriptions to be part of these communities they probably have pretty healthy rec book accounts and they might make some money. But eventually, if these accounts are cooked and you're limited at all these major books, then what's the point? How are you going to be able to get down on these picks that are being offered to you? So, yeah, you know, there's obviously the people who are selling picks that aren't winning and they're probably going to lose subscribers over time because of that. But also, over time, you know, the top-down guys are going to lose too. We're going to lose subscribers, rather, and it kind of all equals out on what is it? The Spraker chart? Yeah, look that up online if you want to see exactly why people say that all touts are bad. 

01:03:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, see exactly what, uh why people say that all touts are bad. Yeah, uh, why do you think people keep falling for the same types of scams, even when the warning signs seem obvious? 

01:03:35 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
so I I think like scamming is a quantity over quality game. Um, you know the famous saying there's like a new sucker born every minute and every day. There's like a new group of young men turning 21, or young adults rather, and they're just waiting to download giraffe kings and get their chance to hit it big. 

01:03:53
Um, what might not be obvious to someone who's been in the space for a while is not going to be apparent to a complete novice like average. Uh, and smart people even get taken advantage of all the time. I think on elf spaces recently he spoke about getting scammed out of $10,000 by somebody. So it can happen to anyone, and largely just numbers are kind of what leads to it. I mean these you know scam call centers that call everyone's phones 24 hours of the day. It feels like they're not trying to get every single person to fall for the scam. As long as they get a certain percentage, that's really what's going to make them successful. 

01:04:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, the Nigerian prince who emails me to my Gmail account. That needs a Western Union money transfer. I mean, I don't think he's getting thousands a day, but it just takes that one Western Union money transfer to make it worthwhile. Sb, if you could change one thing about the sports betting industry overnight, what would it be? 

01:04:54 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I'd probably make it illegal for sports books to advertise publicly. Um, we've seen a successful advertising bans for other vices, such as cigarettes, for instance. Yep, to reduce societal harm. Um, if the iconic ferrari f1 car can't advertise for marlboro anymore, I think it's probably fair to say we don't need like giraffe kings and fanduel commercials every five minutes on tv. Um, I think it would probably be like a net positive for the consumer overall. Sportsbooks would have to like refocus their marketing budgets into more effective ways for customer retention. Um, there's probably you know better avenues to use money than giving like celebrities like jamie foxx or kevin hart celebrities who probably don't even like bet on sports themselves like a fat paycheck to be at these ads. So I I would probably say getting removing at least a substantial portion of, like sportsbook advertising that's kind of consumed all of our lives at this point would probably say removing at least a substantial portion of sportsbook advertising that's kind of consumed all of our lives at this point would probably be what. 

01:05:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I would change. Yeah, it's interesting From a consumer perspective as well. It probably gives the smaller sportsbooks a chance to compete as well, which I think is generally good for the industry when there's more options to choose from, so I do like that answer quite a bit. There's more options to choose from, so I do like that answer quite a bit. Let's go a little bit rapid fire here with some random questions that I wanted to ask you. Best and worst accounts on gambling Twitter. 

01:06:14 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I think you need to rename the best accounts part, the glazing segment sponsored by the Elf Show. I personally think the king of gambling Twitter it has to be Jeffrey Benson, the director of operations at Circa. I've never seen someone in any industry, let alone sports betting, who's so dedicated to great customer service but also having a great sense of humor. Some of the other accounts that I really like like Losing Better, bling, bling. Those are two of my personal favorites. These guys are just really good at mixing shame and humor. To call out people on twitter um, there's a bunch of other people, man there's. There's too many to name, honestly. Um, worst accounts I'm never beating the misogyny claims after this episode, uh, but the worst account has to be amanda vance uh, one second, I believe. 

01:07:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Correct me if I'm wrong. Manda vance did not claim you were a misogynist, correct? 

01:07:07 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
she did not claim I was misogynist, but it has been thrown out there before and I expect other insults. 

01:07:14
Uh similar we'll continue in the future. But um, yeah, someone who's charging 250 dollars a month for pics, uh, with you know, her following on twitter is still relatively small compared to some of her other accounts on, like instagram and tiktok. But, um, someone who may or may not, allegedly have um ai articles written on her website and formerly had fake reviews posted until, um, I bullied her out of deleting them um, she's. She's definitely up there for the worst, uh, to balance it out, uh, sean perry he he's just one of the worst. And and bo wagner as well. But I tell you what bo wagner's lucky. He's kind of fallen out of out of my sphere because there's just there's too many people to keep up with nowadays. Worst accounts. 

01:07:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I could go on for hours yeah, we did an episode on that, I want to say, a year ago with joey kn um different subsection of Twitter. I think he was mostly at that time sharp sports betting Twitter. Um, yeah, interesting answers. From my perspective, what's the dumbest sports betting take that you've ever seen? 

01:08:19 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Man, honestly, there's there's too many to remember. Um, it's really impossible to pick just one out. Um, man, honestly, there's too many to remember, it's really impossible to pick just one out. The dumbest take I see consistently is people asking for voids. It's one thing for a casual bettor to ask for a bet to be voided, it's a whole other thing when someone is a pick seller trying to do the same thing. So, man, sportsbook's kind of made this a problem for themselves, but anytime I see like a spin fluencer telling their audience to go ask for a void or a stat correction yeah I do get just a little bit happier knowing that they feel screwed over in some way I never looked at it that way, but it's uh. 

01:08:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I gotta tell you this is definitely like an old school versus new school and, um, you were in, you know, relatively the same age bracket as well. I I cannot stand the complaint. I will talk about this till the end of time. People who complain about voiding bets bet an under can do that. It's very much, very much possible. If you had to follow blindly follow one spinfluencer's bets for an entire season, who would it be? 

01:09:29 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
not gonna lie, rob. 

01:09:30 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'd rather take an entire season off from betting than having to blindly tail any spin fluencer you're gonna have to, though for this, for the sake of this question, you, you gotta pick someone to blindly tail I think I'd okay. 

01:09:42 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Well, if that's the case, then let's lose my money as fast as possible. I'm just gonna pick sgp vic. I will lose my entire bankroll in a month, and then I won't have to deal with this anymore. There you go. 

01:09:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Just don't want to have to place the bets anymore. 

01:09:55 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Oddly enough, I might take grp I think grp would be fun, for sure, and also like he's, he's a low volume better too. So just tailing him and being able to ride the wave. 

01:10:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, ride with him. That's the fun part. 

01:10:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, you can sacrifice some EV just to be on the same sides. All the time I'm looking at this, I mean I probably would tail Fest. 

01:10:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
And sometimes GRP, you can get a better price than he has and improve your chances over him. 

01:10:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's true. That's a very good point. I mean, I'm looking at the latest list of the power rankings and, yeah, I don't know. 

01:10:34 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I didn't realize how tough. You've got a lot of options as well. That's the sad part. 

01:10:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I didn't realize how tough the question was that I posed to you. I would definitely tail Feessick of all these people yeah, of the people that are currently listed. 

01:10:44 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
If fessick, he caught a little bit of heat for some things he said in the past couple weeks so maybe he's a little bit higher up there than he deserves to be. But yeah, of people on the list. 

01:10:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay, fine, I I mean I think he's lower, honestly, because every time I think he's like kind of done with the really dumb tweets, he gets into it again, like I think he's he's really high up there. His whole tangent he's been going on lately about like how he would buy all these other people's picks. Um, it's like completely rooted. He's like missed the entire notion of. It's not about the person, it's about the picks themselves, right, and whether or not they pose they present value to the, the customer buying them. And if all these, like you know, I'll even say this, and I'll say this as someone that's part of our network that I love, I love Brad Powers, brad Powers, to me he's like such an example. 

01:11:37
You know people will be like, well, how are you going to say Brad Powers, is this great guy? He's selling picks, whatever. You know, I have a personal relationship with the guy. He's great. Time I talk to him I'm like, fuck, I wish I had some some like personality traits that this guy has. But when now his name is out there, like his releases are moving the market in big ways, right, it's really hard to then just to buy those picks. Like you can say you, I'd love to tail Brad Powers on all the bets he makes at the exact same numbers that he personally makes. But do I want to buy his packages and not be able to get the vast majority of these plays and things of that nature, like I think? Fez is completely not realized. That that's what the argument is right. The goalposts are moving. That's why to me I mean I I'd have them top five spinfluencer power rankings right now anyways I definitely agree. 

01:12:27 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
I I respect brad powers and I appreciate the content that he makes, or like hit the books, and I think he's definitely a sharp better, you know, I think, hanging out living in vegas, having um steve fezik texting him, um asking him for plays, I think that that probably, you know, makes me have a little bit less respect for him than I would. 

01:12:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, but overall, I I definitely agree with you yeah, it's tough whenever like you really like a guy and then you know he really likes a guy that you don't like as well and you're like it's the, it's the friendship dynamics, it's like the whole high school dynamics all over again. Um, on the subject of the hammer, if you could add anyone at the Hammer to the Spinfluencer power rankings, who would it be that you would add? Now, it could be a producer, it could be an on-air talent. For people who want to know our roster of permanents, you can go to hammerbet and click on Creators. We've narrowed down the talent pool in recent years for intentional reasons, not because we're retracting in any way. But if you could add anyone at the hammer to the Spinfluencer power rankings, who would it be? 

01:13:31 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
If you're trying to throw me a softball over the plate to get me to say Joey Kanish, then you've done a great job. I'm personally a huge Joey K fan. I think he's hilarious, but he has gotten himself involved in some controversy over the years. That would likely get him added to the list if I didn't know he was a winning better and if he you know if he tried to sell a picks package then he would probably get had to the list, just just from you know some of the bad takes he's had yeah, jacob, do you. 

01:13:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
How would you answer that? 

01:13:58 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
out of curiosity I'm putting on the spot, I'm looking. I'm looking at the list here. 

01:14:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It definitely takes by Jay. 

01:14:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's definitely Jason Cooper. It's probably him, for the lack of a better answer. 

01:14:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He spends every minute of every night In the spaces himself. 

01:14:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's gotta be him, for lack of a better answer. But he's not promoting himself as Some big winner or anything. He's not a losing better, but he doesn't promote himself like he's a winner or anything. 

01:14:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's tough because we've tried to build the hammer as the complete opposite of the Spinfluencer power rankings. We don't want people who misrepresent themselves. I don't think we have anyone that is, but I guess on the drama side of things, people who stir it up and cause drama in the space Kanish and I would say Takes by Jay. 

01:14:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You could argue Feinberg as well. Just again. 

01:14:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, but like does he drum it up himself? I don't think he's looking for it, I think he just he's like the hot man out. 

01:14:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, he doesn't start it, but he's no problem pouring gasoline over the fire that's already been started, that's true. 

01:15:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That he's no problem pouring gasoline over the fire, that's already been started. 

01:15:07 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
That's true. That is true. Sb, go ahead. I'm sorry. I was going to say, if anything takes by Jay after his week zero, take on circle back last week. He probably deserves to be, you know, on the list just for that for, like you know, just an honorary member. But as a college football guy, anyone who's looking forward to week zero, I get it. But, but as a college football guy, anyone who's looking forward to week zero, I get it. But one of the biggest sports betting days, absolutely not. 

01:15:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, listen, I get it too. Like you've had a whole offseason of no football. I mean whatever CFL and like XFL, usfl, whatever, and it's like your first, like real taste. I get it, but like there's not many games that day, you get most of the games. You have like one substantial favorite in the game as well. Um, you know, I will say there were some people both on twitter and in the youtube comments that agreed with him. One guy went as far as saying he likes week zero college football better than like the first two days of march. Madness, I think. I don't even. I mean we can, we can hide that user's comments in the future, because that was a tough one to read, I think you know. 

01:16:05 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
To come back on that real quick, I do think takes by Jay. He's doing good work in the elf spaces. He does spend a lot of time in there, but overall I think that he you know he has a he's making a genuine battle to try to call out bad people and I do respect him for that. 

01:16:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So All right. 

01:16:28 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Give me a hot take on sports betting. That would make people really mad. I think the sharper community would think this is who would make them or what would make them mad. But I don't think you should keep your accounts funded. Casino companies are notorious for underpaying their tech guys. There's already been numerous security breaches and hacks over the years. 

01:16:46
Unless you like live betting, I think it's better to withdraw daily and redeposit when you need to place a bet. I guess this might be a good point for you to drop something, but Edge Boost I've been using recently, getting cash back available on deposits. I'd much rather have all my money in one place to use something like that. I think it maybe looks a little bit more square to pull your money out every day as well. I don't know if that's going to be factored into limiting accounts or not, but unless you're trying to hide your money from your spouse, I don't personally see why anyone would need to keep more than like a small portion of their bankroll on any particular book, especially offshores, where I have trouble trusting crypto sites, the sweepstakes books, things of that nature. I personally don't keep my accounts funded. 

01:17:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Absolutely love whenever the guests tease me up to do an ad read completely unprompted. Yeah, I mean, we've been talking about it for weeks now and people are like wow, edge Boost, is this really a thing? More and more people reach out to me on a weekly basis. I would never lie to you. They're like I've used this. This is great. I'm making cash back. It is a very reputable company in the space. We do our due diligence on people that we work with. 

01:18:05
The Edgeboost Visa card is fantastic. Obviously, elf was a big proponent of it last week. Sb this week as well. You can move up to 250k per day. You earn cash back on every single deposit. If you're betting 10k a week and for a lot of you out there, especially on this channel, I know you're betting that amount per week that's could be up to 400 back every single week. That's real, real money. It adds up. Check out Edge Boost. The link is down in the description below, but it's honestly a no-brainer. Not available in Canada. I can't use it. But if I could, I 100% guarantee you that I would be using the Edge Boost Visa card. A few more before we wrap up here. Let's say you're forced to sell picks. How do you do it in a way that's actually ethical? 

01:18:48 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
so there's a twitter account called uh room 44 bets, who originates a couple different sports and every day he posts his projections for every single game. 

01:18:58
Um, for a future is better. 

01:18:59
Like myself, I think I would do something similar where I would like post my percentages for each team to like, let's just say, win their conference, convert that to the corresponding odds, I would play them down to um, or like I would share all my win totals for every team alongside the odds for every sports book and I'll just let people do what they want with that information. 

01:19:17
Um, I think that's probably a more uh, genuine way to try to to capture kind of I wouldn't say subscription, but if you want to have, like a Patreon or something along those lines, offer some kind of option for people to tip you, because then, if they are tailing you and winning, if they want to get back, they can do that. But instead of having the false promise of like, hey, join my Discord, I'll prove to you I'm a winner once you pay $9.99 a month or whatever, um, I think just like posting my projections and offering offering that as a way to to sell picks. Um, I know it's not really selling picks by doing that, but giving people information and letting them do what they want with it, as opposed to saying bet this and then the number's not available or things of that nature in theory. 

01:20:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Let's say someone was 100, fully transparent in what they were doing. They were I'm not a winning, better, I just love the nba. I like to pick the nba. I'm selling picks because I don't make money winning and I want to use this to sustain my livelihood in some way. Here's my documented bet stamp account from the past year which shows I'm a minus 2.7% ROI. You know all of this. It's on you to decide whether or not you buy. Do you view that as being ethical? 

01:20:42 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Yeah, I don't necessarily see a huge problem with that as much as people trying to market themselves as something that they're not. If people want to join a community and they want to pay money to do that, that's their right. It is my right to call people out and people, no matter what I do, I can't stop people from spending money on things that I wouldn't spend money on. I personally think it's kind of lame to like pay to be a part of a community. I would rather like try to start my own community and, like I have a couple smaller vetting groups of people that I network with and talk to. Um, if people want to do that, then more power to them. 

01:21:16
I just think there's so many options out there of people who could find free communities and and gain a lot of the same knowledge, as opposed to being tied down into a community of someone who's in charge. That is acknowledging being a loser. I just that's just. I can agree that you know that's probably less harmful than some of the other people. It's just not something that I would ever be interested in. 

01:21:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, no, I'm not. I'm not suggesting that you would be it's. It's just more so of like, where do we draw the line? Because for me, I've always been interested in transparency and like people not misrepresenting themselves. I don't think I would have a problem with that, honestly, if someone was just out there and they had a documented two years of like every single play, they made it known to their audience that they're losing better. You know, they're very upfront about their motivations. I say go for it. And if someone wants to buy that they're losing better, they're very upfront about their motivations. I say go for it. And if someone wants to buy that, they can buy it. If not, they don't see it as value. They don't. It's just the bad actors, really, that get me going. 

01:22:13 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Like I said, I don't. If people want to spend their money in that way, then by all means, you know, no one's stopping you. But I just personally think there's just better things you can spend your money on. I'd rather make more bets on my own than pay money to be part of the community, but that's also coming from a guy in his mid thirties, so yep. 

01:22:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What's next for you? What's next for SB I was going to say SB influencer what's next for Spinfluencer? Is this going to turn into something bigger? You're going to devote more and more time to it, like I imagine doing those uh life of a capper videos that you're cutting from official watson, like those, are taking you time. How much, how much further are you going to go into this thing? 

01:22:53 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
so there was a tweet by ferris b on uh gambling twitter to start 2025 that I found very relevant. Uh, I'm paraphrasing here, but essentially said like we need less one trick ponies in the sports betting space. Be more interesting. Sports betting is a really dynamic. I found very relevant I'm paraphrasing here, but essentially said like we need less one-trick ponies in the sports betting space. Be more interesting. Sports betting is a really dynamic space. There's other topics to explore. 

01:23:11
Constant pushing of the same tired ideas are falling on deaf ears. Your message no longer has any impact on others and I think, like in 2025, so far, it's kind of proven true that accounts and content that are like doing something different are growing exponentially, whether it's like Circleback or the Elf Spaces or the Spinfluencer account. I think operating that account as like this anonymous vigilante is probably the best way to go about it, as I don't want to make it about me but the people that I want to expose. I do enjoy creating content within the space. So if people know that it's me behind the account after all this, then so be it. But if you ever need someone to fill in on Circleback and GRP isn't available, then give me a call. I'd just love to see wherever the future will take me, while just enjoying the ride. One thing I can assure you is that I'll never sell or buy picks, but I would love to add value to the space as myself and not just as a spend influencer. 

01:24:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Nice to the space as myself, and not just as a spin influencer. Nice, good to hear. You know the drill in terms of how we like to close this show Plus EV, minus EV. Give me one thing that you think is plus EV in life Could be sports betting related, might not be, and one thing that you think is minus EV. 

01:24:18 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Shout out to Kirk Evans here. Plus EV in life is buying a coffee machine. I know some people are keeping Starbucks in business and I'm personally guilty of spending thousands of dollars there myself, but buying a nice coffee machine is like the plus or the most plus EV decision a regular coffee drinker could make you know get something that's nice and makes a single cup of coffee. Don't have to wait in line Um. You also don't have to feel the shame associated with not wanting to tip someone for simply handing you a black cup of coffee. So plus EV buying a coffee machine. Folgers also tastes better than Starbucks, in my opinion. 

01:24:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I go, uh, so I'm, I'm, I'm a big coffee drinker. We have a Starbucks, uh, we Starbucks. We're in a hotel and we have a Starbucks on the main floor, which is very convenient. I could also just go one floor down to the bed stamp office and they have a very nice espresso machine, but I don't do that. I never think to do that, but it is a great point, especially when I'm working from home. The savings, just I mean I think I've publicly talked about this on the show before the amount that I spend on coffee in one year and how eye-opening it is. I think that's a really good piece of advice. And the best machines will last you a long time and they do taste better, plain and simple. And the convenience factor I think there's a lot of things going for that. 

01:25:42 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Plus EV move, minus EV SB, there's a lot of things going for that plus ev move, um, minus ev, sp, minus ev for me would I'm sorry to not make these super sports betting related, but like not being able to admit when you're wrong or to say sorry, um, we all make mistakes, we've all wronged others at times, whether it's intentionally or not, and a lot of the a lot of times, just simply saying sorry is all it takes to make amends. On top of that, people will respect you more just for having the ability to do so, and I think that goes a long way towards others respecting your character. So people who can't admit when they're wrong or admit fault or have the ability to say they're sorry, that's just one of the most minus EV things that I think anyone can do in life. 

01:26:30 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Love that, really good advice. I'll throw in a minus EV for the week just because it's very topical in the sense of real life for us. This is probably not helping people in a big way, but I do get people who occasionally reach out to me for podcasting, tips how their studio is going to look, what equipment to use, things of that nature. So I'll give a little piece of vodcasting advice. Our lease is going to expire on this space that we're in fairly shortly. We are moving to another spot. We're having studios built. 

01:26:53
This brick that's behind me here on this wall is real brick. It's taken from a famous street in Toronto that we chose to put into our studio because we like the look and how it contrasts with this on the other side here. However, people don't know this at home. They don't know the size of this room. This brick is extended all the way across this wall, all the way to producer Jacob in the back corner over there, and it costs us a shit ton of money to do that and we never actually show any other part of the studio other than what these cameras see. 

01:27:30
Don't make those mistakes learning mistakes when you are vodcasting or you're creating a studio or anything like that. Focus on what is going to be on camera. Frame it first. This is what the camera is going to see. What is going to be on camera, frame it first. This is what the camera is going to see. Spend on that, spend good money on that, on lighting, the backdrop, whatever, but you don't need these wraparounds and things of that nature. So don't overdo it. And I just say that as someone who's also learning about the podcasting game and the content game. 

01:27:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Can I give one as well, similar to what you brought up there. I would say the most plus CV move in that respect. As somebody who, like I, don't have a massive YouTube channel, but it's at the time of recording bigger than circles off. It won't be for very long, I don't think so. I've done okay with it and it's the reason I have this job today. Just start. Don't worry about the background, don't worry about the microphone at first. Like you got to make sure you like it first of all. So just practice with what you have at home. If you like it, then start to invest and hopefully you can invest the stuff that you're making off of that content. So the plus TV move for people who want to get into content creation just start. Just start with what you have and see what you think. 

01:28:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I like that. The original Circles Offs were audio only, with me and Johnny. We filmed them over Zoom. Our first studio was in a basement with a folding wooden table. We've done stuff in other rooms in this building that were completely unfinished. Just get it done. But yeah, we invested a lot into this studio, which we will not get back, and most of it was never seen, honestly, because we had some other plans back in the day. But anyways, completely unrelated to betting, I don't want to drag it on, but I do get a lot of those questions and you can send those anytime you want. My DMs are open at RobPizzolo on Twitter. You can email us circlesoffatthehammerbet as well, and you should leave this interview right away. Go follow Spinfluencer on Twitter at SBInfluencer on Twitter. But it's Spinfluencer SB. Appreciate you joining us on Circles Off. 

01:29:39 - Sbinfluencer (Guest)
Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate you. No problem at all. 

01:29:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I will be back next week with another brand new episode. If you enjoyed this one, make sure you do three things you subscribe down below, smash that like button and, of course, leave us a comment, anything you want to talk about. It all goes a long way in helping us grow our audience here, but for sure, if you want to see bigger name guests on the show going forwards I know a lot of you are like haralaabob, this and that XYZ, get us those subs. Let's pass 20K. Let's blow up this channel. Do what you can do to help support us. I'll be back next week, peace out.