00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off powered by Pinnacle Sportsbook. We're going to get into whether or not you need winter tires on the East Coast during the winter season, but, most importantly, we're going to go into tweets that trigger us. This week. There are a lot People are starting to galaxy brain themselves into all sorts of these sports betting strategies. We will cover those in the words of the famous Brad Powers Alright, alright, let's hit the books. Welcome to circles off here on the hammer betting network powered by pinnacle sportsbook. I'm rob joan by my good friend johnny from bet stamp. 

00:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's episode number 76 obviously this is a one and only. Pernell carl subban pk subban, recently retired was a controversial player for a bit. Obviously played on a rival team to us in the, you know, the peak of his career in the montreal canadians. But much respect grew up around this area. Pk legend of the game for sure. 

00:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, some very, very good offensive linemen have worn 76. Orlando pace, all a famer. Dwayne Brown, current NFL or 76, but in the NBA only one player in the history of the NBA is worth 76 mid nineties Biggest white man. Do you remember? 

01:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Uh, seven the mid nineties yeah. 

01:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, I, I I'm pretty sure he was in space jam, but I'm not 100. Sean bradley don't know. Okay, sean bradley was like the prototypical big white man he was. I think he's like seven five. He's an absurdly big height kid seven six seven six five. 

01:40
Sean bradley. Sean Bradley nicknamed the Stormin' Mormon 7'6". 7'6". That's crazy. No MLB players of interest that have worn 76. 

01:53
As usual, circles Off is sponsored by Pinnacle. Pinnacle is the world's sharpest sportsbook. It's now available to players in Ontario. Find out what professional bettors have known for decades. Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19 players in Ontario. Find out what professional bettors have known for decades. Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19 plus in Ontario. Please play responsibly. 

02:11
We always preach that and not available in the United States. Me and Johnny talk about it all the time. We preach line shopping. We think that's extremely important. We would never consider betting without Pinnacle being one of our sportsbooks. Low hold, win more. Consider betting without pinnacle being one of our sports books low hold, win more, lose less when you are betting with pinnacle. 

02:30
Lots of crazy stuff happened over the course of the past week. This episode we will do a tweets that trigger a segment and, believe me, there was like there was so many to choose. We could have ran a five-hour episode on the amount of tweets that I saw this week. We are in like the the galaxy brain era of sports betting is what I want to call it. There's so many new people to the space right now that are convincing themselves of stuff that's meaningful, and it's hypocritical for me not to call myself out, because I was like this when I was younger. Right, there's certain things that you just think are going to work for you, and then like it works in a very short sample and you start telling people to do it. 

03:09
When I was young, I used to go to a literally a free picks website every day when I was in high school and even in early university, early college days, and I would go through every single capper and just click on their free pick. I wouldn't buy their package. It would be like a list of 25 people and I'd chart them all in Excel and there would be guys that would start. They'd go like 14 and 7. And 21 games, and I would just start tailing their free picks, because I had no concept of like small sample size, complete randomness in sports. And now we're getting to all sorts of stuff nowadays, like the fade to public stuff, the. We're getting to all sorts of stuff nowadays like the fade, the public stuff. Uh, the books know, vegas, knows, games are fixed, this and that, um, there's like a million things we're going to get into today, which like I, there's some good stuff coming on twitter right now. 

03:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There is some good shit that's for sure. 

03:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's definitely some good stuff. There was an announcement from spanky this week. Bet bash will be happening in August of 2023. I'm very much looking forward to that event. 

04:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Bet Bash 2023. I think Rob and I will both be there early commits. Yeah, I mean. Listen, the value in the betting space from networking is unparalleled. It's very valuable in every single industry but in betting specifically, like just being able to, you know, bounce ideas off other, you know, sharp minds or other people who are just in the space looking to, you know, try to either earn money gambling or have fun gambling. It's an awesome opportunity. Recommend that, you know. Everyone who has the means, time off, stuff like that to check it out and potentially, you know, grab your ticket and head on out. It's held at uh circa sports book in las vegas. Get the hotel up at the d. 

04:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh yeah and uh man, maybe we'll see you there. You know what I love about those events. Uh, derrick stevens, who we've had on circles off previously I'm talking about the circa millions and circa survivor he just like posts up with everybody at the events just like the owner of circa. He's just there in the mix. Um loves to grab drinks with everyone, like it's a really. We've seen the evolution of bet bash, which has been pretty cool actually, though, because like first bet bash, just like a one-night event in jersey, in new jersey rooftop bar. Um in like during covid times as well. Um, one of my last memories of dink actually dink was there in his, I think, quebec nordiques, jersey, or wendell clark, quebec nordiques jersey I'm pretty sure it was a wendell. 

05:30
Clark quebec, nordiques jersey yeah, yep, that was. 

05:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, that's where he was. He was in that jersey. That's right, the blue nordiques great jersey, but that was like a roughly a five hour event open bar. 

05:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Put a lot of people into, like cram a lot of people into a rooftop patio open bar five hours. It gets out of hand real. I'm not saying that was like out of hand, out of hand like you know fights or anything like that, but it was like it was an event. You know what I'm saying. But it was a one-nighter, went by like this. Great to make some connections there. Last year um was the one at the first one that spanky held at Circa. I tried to attend everything there. Also, I'm a good friend, spanky, remember that I'm a good friend. He doesn't, by the way, spanky does not pay us to promote this or anything like that. But I tried to attend all the events with him, including the Allen Boston movie review on night one, which I can't even remember what the movie was, but I found it very funny to watch Alan Boston critique the movie after the fact. It's like some gambling movie that I never. It's like from the 70s or 60s or something like that. 

06:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, we'll see you guys all there this year hopefully I'm sure we'll talk about it again as it comes closer to the lead up and as we have, you know, a little bit more information on, like, exactly who might be speaking there, who might be interested in or who might be doing certain events, stuff like that, um, but yeah, awesome stuff. Uh, love the community coming together and I do feel like you know, for the most part, amongst the more sharper betting community right now at least, it is as less, as least, hostile as it's been over the past. Like you know, call it 10 years in my opinion right now. So I know you know a lot of the people who were typically, like you know, call it 10 years in my opinion right now. So I know you know a lot of the people who were typically, like you know, attacking people and stuff like that. 

07:09
It's now like all right, we've all banned it together and, like you know, we just get triggered by other people's tweets now instead of our own, which is kind of good but kind of bad. Why do you think that is? Um, I don't know. I think people just getting older and realizing that, like you know, it's not, you don't need to go after a guy for a certain thing, like whatever. I personally have never gone after anyone you're very quiet. 

07:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You, you use. You use twitter just to like, you know, stay up to date, so on, and so you use it in a different capacity than a lot of other people. Like we interviewed ferris a few weeks ago, right, and asked him off air beforehand do you want me to promote your twitter? He's like I don't, like, I just I just use Twitter for news and to keep up with stuff, and that's one way for me. 

07:47
I was always immersed in Twitter at the beginning and you know, when I it's come, my life is it's like it's done, like it's come full circle, it's like complete one 80. Cause. When I first started on Twitter Twitter 2010, now something like that I was the P. I was the people that we rip or critique I shouldn't say rip that we critique on tweets that trigger us. I was that person. I had a lot of people who would come after me specifically and say, hey, like, just so you know what you're saying doesn't make any sense and I would argue to the death like I was that person ropazola joined july 2010 july 2010 okay. 

08:28
So, like it's been, yeah, we're going on. You know, it's 12 and a half years now and I was that guy. Like you know, there was a community in twitter still exists, but less so called uh, seaville, contrarianville, right, and a lot of those guys in the early going hated me. A lot of them still hate me, probably because they they still think back to those days in particular, when I was just like a pure recreational better and thought that I wasn't um. So now it's like our turn to educate, but do it in a way where it's not entirely hostile, because that that was what got me back in the day was it was never, it's never constructive criticism. It was you're an idiot and try not to do that nowadays. 

09:15
Well, we, you still do that. I still do that. I try not to, but I still do. We're going to get into a few here that um, that um, definitely I mean it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard not to all. Right, zach, let's hit it. Uh, let's do tweets that trigger us I don't know what we're yelling about. 

09:35 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I've never seen you mad. I get peeved. Why are you in such a bad mood? What do you care? It's only game. Why you have to be mad why you have to be mad. 

09:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Why you have to be mad. It's a minus a 37 in the winter months. It's very cold in Toronto. Now too, it sucks. 

09:51 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Snow outside. Snow. It's brutal. Had to get my tires changed. That sucks. 

10:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's the time of the year where you have to check the NFLfl weather reports on like monday morning to see what's shaping up for the weekend. Bill bills browns this weekend total move from like 47 and a half to 43 and a half, and in an hour or so you're getting snow tires on your car on. Uh, so do you have to, or no? So I have two cars. I have the, the tesla, and then I have a chevy volt. 

10:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
By the way, for anyone wants to rip him that he has a chevy volt. 

10:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That is the most all-time rippable car of all time so the chevy volt purchased in 2018 was at that time. Here's my life story. By the way, like all of you care about this, the ontario government had a very big rebate for electric cars. They could have gave that thing out free. I still want to take it. The price of that car was $45,000. The government gave a $15,000 rebate, so it's $30,000, okay, is what we paid for that car in 2018. I'm trying to sell that car right now. I can sell that car for $30,000. I literally have driven the car for four years. I don't like the car yeah, okay. 

11:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So basically what you're saying is for four years you got to drive around for free in that dusty piece of shit car I so what's the value in that? 

11:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
agree, so here's the thing until I I drove a better car. I didn't really put priority Seriously I didn't put priority on driving a better car, like for me when I was younger it was always like cars are just like a waste, I just need to go from here to there Like I'm just going to drive whatever. I never even considered buying a nicer car at any point in life Until we did our first bet stamp trip to florida. We worked out of uh, where were we? What? Uh? 

11:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
it's like just outside fort myers area. 

11:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah like between fort myers and naples. Yeah, it was an older community. It was the best cape, cape cape coral. Yeah, it's called cape coral, cape coral, cape coral okay, great spot, but anyways, um, one of johnny's friends who lives there, um owns a tesla and used to come by the the bet stamp house, for you know the month that we were there and eventually I'm like all right. Like I was very anti elon musk at that point because I was a crypto owner. He was messing around with the prices of bitcoin. 

12:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He raised it, though Give him credit. He raised it at one point and then also sank it back down. I think he was probably a slight net positive. 

12:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I just like to let you know I don't like outside influence on stuff. It's just another complication in terms of crypto. But your buddy took me out for a boot in the Tesla and I was like, oh boy, I'm gonna have to go home and uh and get me myself one of these. So long story short, I have two cars. The chevy volt is driven so infrequently. It's parked in my garage, the tesla on the driveway, the vault in the garage, but don't, don't get. But it still has. Why is? 

13:03
that the chevy volt still has the winter tires on from last year like I. I literally drive it so infrequently. That's awesome that I've I've not needed to change the tires a couple times yeah, by the way, I'm not saying that rob got like a. 

13:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
it's not like a rusted old chevy volt, it was a new Chevy Volt at the time. I'm just saying the Chevy Volt itself is that bad To look at and both drive. 

13:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a hybrid. I could go 120 kilometers, what is it? 80 miles or something like that, on electric, which was huge for me because I don't drive far. This is like driving from my home to this studio is probably the furthest. I drive over the course Occasionally some golf courses a little bit further, but like rarely because my home course is pretty close. This is the furthest drive for me, so I can get away. This is like. This is cheap, rob talking now, but like, and especially in the winter, like not having to fill up your tank in the winter. That's, that is the goldmine. Yeah, it's just like up your tank in the winter. 

14:05 - Zack Phillips (Other)
That is the goldmine, yeah. 

14:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's just like to get out of the car. It's not even about the cost, it's the cold pumping the gas Like it's. You know what I would pay Like there's no self-serve around here, like there was back in the day, or full serve, whatever it is, it is all. Yeah, it's all self-serve, it's all self-serve. There's no full-serve, where you still have the gas attendant pump the gas for you. I would pay a stupid amount in the winter for that service. 

14:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, and your hands get all chapped and stuff, yeah it's cold. 

14:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's days where it's really cold. Who wants to do that? 

14:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Get out of your car. No, I'm with you. But even when it's not cold like just the saving the trip to the gas station is awesome it's the best man just getting home plugging in the car all right anyways, um yes, apologies to everyone how did that? Start. I asked if you're getting with. Are you getting with the tires on the tesla? 

14:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
um, probably you need them. So here's the thing. Like we both keep going. Well, no, no, it's, it's for those out, those out there. I'd be interested to know. I don't like to be reckless, obviously, but I barely drive. I don't take the car out in bad conditions for the most part, and the tires are so new because it's a fairly new car that I feel like the grip is pretty strong. It'll be okay. 

15:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It claims they're all seasons, but we do live in a harsher environment where in the winter you might want the winter tires for added safety. 

15:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It absolutely makes a huge difference, like the difference between all seasons and winter tires makes a huge difference in slippery conditions. 

15:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But like I'm rarely driving in bad conditions, like almost exclusively not Charge me like 1G and then put those on my car automatically without me having to do anything. And I'm doing it, but I've also the fact that I have to go there, then get a ride, come back, it's just another thing, man like you already had to go through, like the license ordeal exactly. 

15:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've already given my thing for the month. My wife had to go get a new passport a couple days ago. She had to wait outside for like seven hours, the worst. I mean, like I I'm just, I'm all about convenience, right, if I need winter tires, if I need that, then I'll do it. But also, like there's back orders on the on the tesla winter tires as well no, you can't get those ones. 

16:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You have to just go get ones from yeah. 

16:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But then it feels like it doesn't feel the same. All right, let's get wait, wait, wait, wait before we actually get into something serious here. 

16:23 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Rob's looking sharp today. You notice what he's wearing. 

16:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah. 

16:26 - Zack Phillips (Other)
No, I know. 

16:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's trying to show me up. It doesn't matter. I will only ever wear in the winter a hoodie and a hat or something. I'm not that guy. That's the reason I started this, so I don't have to wear dress clothes. I do like to dress up. 

16:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Everybody has their own style and things that work for them. Some people all the time are like oh how you always wear jeans. Like jeans are so uncomfortable it's like I never notice. I'm never uncomfortable in jeans, like I never, ever noticed them. So to me it's not a problem no, fair enough like my friend austin is just like you'll. 

17:04
You'll in the cold, like he'll be wearing shorts in his house or you can be as comfortable as possible. But like to me that's not an issue. I'll lay down on the couch in jeans and I don't even care. 

17:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, no, I mean, for me it just that's part, like that's literally the like. One of the main reasons I started my own biz was just just so I could just do it Like I don't have to dress up in like a dress pants and a suit every day, yeah. 

17:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Or like producer Zach is dressed in poverty today, yeah, no, you're looking. Okay, buddy, do you have the your socks, your pants tucked into your socks? 

17:33 - Zack Phillips (Other)
No, okay, just how. Just how I'm sitting. I see I'm not going to pull a goodie, come on. 

17:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What do we to the tweets? Oh guys, come on. No, no, this is this is. This is a sports vetting podcast. 

17:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I get it, but that that. 

17:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So when we say tweets that trigger us, this is lifestyle that triggers me. The socks tucked into no, sorry, the pants tucked into the socks. I'll never understand that look, never did it. Just looks very wrong all the time. People from my high school- but what is the? 

18:01 - Zack Phillips (Other)
point the cool kids like is is someone here who does it yeah. 

18:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Josh Goodwin does it in the office. I think I've seen Luke do it before as well. Okay, well, if I see it, I'll roast him, all right. So this is not a lifestyle that triggers us, but it does, in a sense, all right. Tweets that trigger us. Where are we starting, zach, when we got up right now? Okay, this is one of my favorite of all time In this segment. It is up there on my Mount Rushmore of favorite tweets that trigger us. Which one? This one on the screen right now, from Gambling Fetish Interesting name. I mean, what's his actual? At Rax got me, yeah, at Rax got me. All right, stanford you owe me, with a ton of exclamation points afterwards, um, and he includes his screenshots from fan duel, which are a long shot parlay. It's a nine leg parlay that pays plus 37 000 essentially, and he lost by one leg. The leg was Stanford. Stanford, in this parlay, that one individual leg is almost plus 1,200. It's plus 1,160. 

19:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Every other leg. 

19:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's some other underdogs here. 

19:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He put some live bets in. I believe that was the stanford live. By the way, in case anyone's like oh, that wasn't the bet on sanford, it was the utah game they were. They got absolutely. 

19:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They were down 14 7 at the half and they got absolutely mashed in the second half there are a ton of live bets in here, like even some of the hockey ones, are los angeles kings minus 2500 live. Um, there's some football ones, san diego state I mean, he did cash a decent underdog on san diego state, live plus 260, but at the end of the day, stanford doesn't owe this guy anything because you know what stanford was. They were 12 to 1 to win, exactly, and stanford is the, as johnny would say, the equivalent of its own parlaylay. 

20:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's literally its own parlay. That's a five-team parlay. Roughly that's a four-team parlay. It would be plus 1,000, roughly that's roughly like fair odds four to five-team parlay, depending on what juice you're putting in there. So basically, yeah, he lost his big parlay but he didn't actually like, didn't. That's like losing the same, lost by the hook, got eight of nine and then you put the first eight or like minus one thousands, and then the the last one's like a plus 3300. You know, la kings win the cup, that's gonna lose, right? 

20:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
well, that's what I'm saying. Like this. This one is actually so funny, man. Like when I first saw this one I was I was almost crying of laughter, because I get it. You lose by one game. People are upset about that, but you're talking about a 12-1 underdog. 

20:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm sorry we don't have it on here, but how about that guy who cashed out of that Miles Sanders bet? Did you see that one? I did see that one. This guy bet a bunch of alt-overs on running back rushing yards and he hit the first five or something and then it was all down to Monday night mile Sanders and he ended up cashing out. I will say, odds on the cash out not horrible. I would have also cashed out. It was worse odds than what he than what he bet. However, like that mile Sanders bet was just God awful at plus six 60. So I actually didn't mind the the cash out at that price. But, um, yeah, you won a lot of money. Good for him. Parlay, was that gonna win long term? Absolutely not. Was it probably honestly one of the biggest negative ev parlay's I've seen? Absolutely it's good at getting all the guys alt rushing yards over and like you're barely getting payouts on those. Um, but yeah, good for him Cashed out. Appreciate that At least he got some cash in the bank. 

21:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We've talked about the old cash out a few times before on the podcast and at the end of the day I mean, if it's money that's going to change your life in some way or another or you're going to lose sleep and you don't want to have the risk, absolutely you can go for it, even if it's not exactly a plus ev play all right. Uh, tweet number two raheem palmer um just want to make it known I I'm gonna. I'm going to say this because it will inevitably come up and I don't want to feel like we're attacking people from a specific organization or anything like that. I have zero issues with raheem palmer um. I just have this tweet in particular which I saw come across from him which really bothered me. 

22:27
So this is in reference to the buffalo bills minnesota vikings game this past week, where it was uncertain whether or not josh allen would play. So raheem palmer tweets market back up to bills minus six. This should be illegal at NFL. Why this particularly bothers me is that that whole game Bills Vikings is a massive opportunity for bettors in one way or another like massive, and as a bettor, you should want the uncertainty to exist in market Now. You should want the uncertainty to exist in market. Now maybe he's frustrated because he bet the Vikings early on, or something like that, and thought Allen was out. I don't actually know the context behind it, but people want like a situation where it's perfect information, right and that's going to help. Nobody Like think about how many edges exist in sports based off of changes in the edges. 

23:29
But like go through every sport right NHL on a daily basis, you get a backup goalie. That's an edge in a lot of cases where you can bet right away MLB lineups, mlb lineups, nba lineups this happens on a daily basis, right? So we do not want perfect injury reporting. This would actually be very counterintuitive to making money in the long run. So that's why this tweet specifically bothered me. In the case of that, like the Vikings Bills game this week, you could have set yourself up for a massive middle those don't happen a whole lot in the NFL being able to get the Vikings above a touchdown at one point in the week, bills minus three at one point in the week. 

24:15
Now, obviously, Almost cashed, Should have cashed If Justin Jefferson doesn't make. In my opinion, in my opinion, which I've taken, a lot of heat for the best catch in the history of the nfl with the situation tied to it or just in general every everything about that. 

24:32
The situation matters because it's they won the game, because of that play, but the catch itself is actually so absurd that you have a guy going up with two hands and a guy taking it away from him with one hand just barely off the ground and also has the same element of like the reach back so, okay, I, I'm still going odell's catch well above that, significantly and for a few reasons. 

24:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But number one is whoever the bills defensive player was actually escaping my mind right now. That was fourth down. Buddy, knock that down. The ball knocked the ball down and we don't have this issue. Yes, but, um, yeah, I don't think that jefferson catch. I think it was obviously an amazing catch, one of the hardest to do, but I don't think it was as good. 

25:17
And not saying that jefferson's not the best in the league he probably is but odell's catch on that better for a couple reasons. One, it was a way longer reception, in a sense that like ball flies in the air. Longer. Jefferson's was like 21 yard catch, 23 yard catch to odell actually caught that clean. Jefferson doesn't catch it clean. He like, basically he didn't actually catch the ball like theills player caught it and he ripped it out and then was able to hold on to it, which is impressive. And then, in terms of situations, understand, vikes went on to win the game, which is unbelievable. But Odell's catch was the greatest catch in history because it a was also a touchdown and b was also a hard pass interference right, which was then declined. It was just an unbelievable catch so here's what I'm. 

26:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Here's what I'm gonna say. First of all, youtube comments who's who has the greatest catch of all time? I think it's on. Odell will probably come in at the highest there's actually some really underrated catches, sorry would you tweet at us too. 

26:20 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Tweet at us as well at circles should I put out a poll? 

26:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yeah, put out a poll. Put out a poll. That's a good idea. There's some like the george pickens catch this year was amazing, that was on. 

26:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, I mean that now this is recency bias but if it's a sideline grab and it doesn't like, I don't like the situation's gotta matter. 

26:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, of course, the situation matters so like um mario, um mario manningham in this. 

26:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, that was more of a great throw by eli manning, but um david tyree david tyree, yeah, but the actual, my favorite catch ever, like best actual catch, is deandre hopkins has one, yes, on houston that was called back because he pushed off which it was arguable whether he did or not and the play didn't even count. But that in my opinion, is the greatest catch of all time for actual, like skilled catches that he made that anyone has made. It's deandre hopkins in that game when he was on houston when the play didn't even count. Greatest actual catch situation. Everything involved. 

27:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Gotta go odell okay, odell beckham, that catch. I'll never forget where I was when it happens because I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan for people that don't know, so everyone's going to call me biased here now and whatever. It's fine. People that know me well, especially who've been following my betting advice for years, know that I often bet against the Cowboys. It's fine. Odell Beckham pushed off of Brandon Carr on that play. You never see it because they only show all you ever see. Now is this the catch. They there. There was a flag for for brett on brandon carr on that play which got the client odell beckham shoved brandon carr out of the way on that play. 

27:54
Maybe we it imagine, imagine get that deandre hopkins catch. Imagine if offensive pass interference was called on that play and how that would have changed the course of Odell Beckham's life. 

28:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
To be fair, he was absolutely phenomenal for that run. 

28:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He was amazing in that, Despite that catch he's getting two touchdowns a game. 

28:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He was blistering people. 

28:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But that is synonymous two touchdowns a game. He was blistering people, but that that is synonymous that play is is widely considered. You know, the best catch of all time comes up. Tons, shown it every year, tons. And it was very subtle. I'm not I'm not saying like it was like a blatant, it was very subtle. But he shoved brandon carr out of the way. Brandon carr went, flying backwards like a couple yards, like I don't know how. Nobody saw this in real time. I'm the Cowboys fan on the couch, yelling like you know, not even appreciating the catch because I think it's OPI. But yeah, there's been a ton, there's been a ton. 

28:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I will take this catch right here. 

28:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's get the link in the description on YouTube. 

29:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Here I'm going to send this to Zach All right, zach's going to take it. 

29:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We'll get the link in the description. 

29:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Play this right now, if you can. This is the catch I will take as the greatest actual catch, better than Odell, I can't play it. 

29:15 - Zack Phillips (Other)
We're going to get banned. It's an NFL clip. 

29:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You get banned for playing a clip of a video. Yeah, we're toast For playing a copyright infringement. 

29:23 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Just a slight clip. Yeah, yeah, yeah, can't do it. 

29:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Without expressed written consent. Yeah, it's NFL, we're toast. 

29:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We only have the verbal consent. 

29:32 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Dude. You know how much Pat McAfee pays per year to be able to use NFL clips? How much, $2 million. Per how much? Two million dollars per year per year. Well, when you're making 30, I mean, listen, that's, that's. But that's also a guy who used to play in the league, that's not insignificant if we just like, click at nfl twitter, go through and play their videos. We're banned we get copyright infringements left. As someone who's dealing with, youtube, I don't right now on a regular basis. 

29:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't want to know what's going to happen if we play this video. We'll throw it in the comments down below. 

30:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's not even cool, man, I'll pull up a photo of it. 

30:07 - Zack Phillips (Other)
You're talking about the DeAndre Hopkins question. Yeah, that's not cool. 

30:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean I don't want to see a picture of it, I want to see it in slow-mo. 

30:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's not cool, like a 30-second slow-mo Back to back to this guy's tweet, just just search deandre hopkins. Catch that didn't count and then it'll come up. For sure, catch that. Yeah that, that will come up right there. 

30:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, man, that, that that you could tell just based off the image look at the left. Look at the left the top left. Top left one is a is absurd. 

30:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
he nabs it like that out of the air and then, in order to catch it, he has to put it through his leg. 

30:43 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Oh, I remember this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

30:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And he makes the catch, but he is called for the push off from earlier. 

30:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll link this I'm also just watching it live on my laptop right now with the live reaction. I guess it's a 40 second clip Top of the screen. Am I allowed to commentate on this or am I going to get? 

31:01 - Zack Phillips (Other)
in trouble. 

31:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah yeah, commentate, you're good On top of the screen. Oh man, what an absurd. It's almost like the. I've seen dunks like this before, where guys start behind the legs, get it out in front. It's actually who's this Dolphins corner that gets absolutely roasted, avian howard. It is avian howard, it is howard. Yeah, yeah, a good quote. Oh my god, yeah, yeah, this is a but, so so. What's actually even incredible, though, is he actually pins it to his ass. He sort of like catches it, puts it underneath between the legs like that was a bullet throw also. 

31:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This is not an easy like, that's just not even an easy catch to make on a red with two hands, like it's that ball's flying by. 

31:46 - Zack Phillips (Other)
What a play All right, I'll link this in the description. 

31:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, deandre Hopkins. There's this one clip of him Also. He's actually when he's on Houston, he's facing Arizona, and then um, a coach I don't know if it's arians or not, no, someone goes up to him and says like it's like an, it's like a, an assistant coach, or maybe like a team coach. 

32:06
Yeah, and he's like and he's like hey to hopkins. He's like, hey, uh, just want to let you know, man, like you're the best in the game right now. And then hopkins just looks at him dead in the eyes, and he's like I know I uh, so we we actually mic'd up, we don't. 

32:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We don't hear a lot of like the post game stuff, right where guys go up to each other and talk to them um. This past week, cowboys and packers, we got the lafleur mccarthy um like meeting at at midfield after they say the lafleur. 

32:37
It was the lamest thing I've ever heard. He just went up to mccarthy. He's like hey, coach, I just want to let you know that I got a lot. Got a lot of respect for you, got a lot of respect for you, and he walked away. I was like that's, I don't know. I don't know what I was expecting to hear, but I was like, hey, coach, just want to let you know, got a lot of respect for you. 

32:58 - Zack Phillips (Other)
It's like all right. I heard an interview with Ryan Fitzpatrick. He said that he hated Tom Brady throughout his career because one time Tom Brady, they just like walked off the field and like didn't shake his hand after. 

33:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It was because Fitzpatrick obviously played on like Dolphins, bills and Jets. He got an ass whooping by New England a lot of times and always like stayed classy. And then he said the one time he beat brady he just walked off the field and like had no class and he was like I always hated that guy because of that. Now he's like this guy couldn't take one. L like I lost like 16 times yeah, ryan finn spouch there was. 

33:35 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Uh wait, did we even finish talking about the tweet? 

33:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
no, okay. So that guy's tweet. The reason why it's triggering is because the market went up from my. So obviously, like josh allen was very questionable. He was at one point expected out and then he was now going to play and then it was. Is he going to start? Is he not going to start whatever he started? So that's going to fluctuate the line. 

33:54
When you're talking about either the best or second best qb in the league with a backup, that's not anything great. Case Keenum he's not horrible, but he's not a great. He's not a potential starter, he's, he's a backup, is what he is. It's obviously going to shift the line significantly. So Bill's market back up to minus six. It should be illegal. It's like what are you talking about? Like it just went down Cause alan was questionable play and then he came back in. The nfl is so big and you can make so much money that, like nobody is hiding that news on purpose to like bait the line and then and then bet into it. Because if you, if that actually happened, then when the bills were like minus three, if people knew josh allen's gonna play, then it would just get steamed back up to six and the books would move it up so, like it actually is, there's nothing illegal. 

34:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, it doesn't make sense and, on top of it, like I, I actually thought it was a really good move by the bills over the course of the week like they kept it as hidden as they possibly could and like I get it. We're betting on games. You want the information, you want to know, but again, this presents like. This creates opportunity. Plain and simple. These are the biggest edges you're going to find in sports. So asking for this to be like outlawed which is kind of what I took away from the tweet, I think is just like no, why would you do this? Raheem palmer bets the nba a lot. That's a lot of injury news. Like we wouldn't say the same thing for injury news in the nba, why would you say it for the NFL? Giannis has the fluke. This is illegal. Yeah, exactly, this should be illegal. The line moves like four points. I don't get it All right. Next tweet here Okay, this next tweet is like a series of tweets. 

35:31
Pizza man, you got it. Do we want to start at the beginning of this one? I don't, because we'll be here for the next six hours if we do. Okay, it was a thread between Jeff Benson, who is the sportsbooks operations manager for Circa, and JJ Gruden at Taking the Point 5, who is a TikTok betting content guy increasing his following on Twitter. He's John Gruden's nephew. Is he actually, though? I did not actually know that. Yeah, so who's his dad? 

36:05 - Zack Phillips (Other)
jay gruden. 

36:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Is this for real? I'm dead. Are you guys pulling my leg? 

36:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
no, I have no idea, I'm just going on. This is not jay gruden's son. Yes, it is. Oh man, jay. Jay gruden is jay junior gruden. 

36:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, I have to, I have to. Oh, jay jay, jay gruden. He's starting a podcast with his dad, jay gruden, yes, I have to. I have to. Oh, j j j gruden. 

36:23 - Zack Phillips (Other)
He's starting a podcast with his dad, j gruden, so I just quickly googled j gruden son. 

36:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
J gruden has three sons, by the way, to each their own. I, I. I couldn't help but laugh like a little bit here. J gr Gruden has three sons Jack, joey and JJ. That's fine. 

36:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yes, it's fine. That's nothing bad, Bro. Leonard Fournette's brother is named Leonard Fournette. No, but do you see what? 

36:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, I get. I don't want to make fun of names or anything Like everyone's. It's literally like no, it's not the name. It's just like you got John Gruden and then you got Jay Gruden and then you got Jack, joey and JJ. Yeah, they did it on purpose. 

37:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Of course they're doing it on purpose. I don't think it's anything like that. 

37:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a long tradition in the Gruden family of naming your son with a name that starts with a J. Fair enough, okay, jj Gruden and Jeff Benson are going toe-to-toe here, so essentially, how this thread started is that jj gruden bet the over excuse me, the under 46 and a half in the bills vikings game, because he made the total 49 and a half and somebody must have knew something but we go to the thing where he says that he put the total as 49 and a half. 

37:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This is a Okay. Go up, go up, Scroll up. This is it. It's going to no keep going. Sorry, sorry, oh God. 

37:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's max play. Alert is the first. 

37:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, this is where we got to start. 

37:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Max play alert. Minnesota Buffalo, under 46 and a half, has been upgraded into five. Let's fucking go. What's the angle? Jj Says someone else. What's? 

38:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
the angle JJ. Somebody asked. 

38:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Total should be around 49 and a half, lowest for these two teams. So, jeff Benson, which I love Jeff is like you know, he's like my spirit animal. Basically, if you made the total 49 and a half, why are you max betting under 46 and a half? This logic makes no sense, and that's when we got into a lot more of the back and forth and people chiming in. Uh, jj gruden said this man is officially obsessed with me and jeff benson responds I am obsessed with seeing people in the space with a following accurately and appropriately represent things. If you make a game 49 and a half and max bet under 46 and a half is a big bomb banger, big bomb bang then you're misleading your followers, and he's right. So this is off the top. 

38:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
How did he say that? Like I don't understand why he said that. Like you realize, this is the equivalent of being like I'm betting the maple leaves tonight versus the penguins and you're saying, oh you're, I'm betting maple leaves minus 115 and you're like, yeah, I think this should be plus 160. That're like yeah, I think they should be plus 160. That's what he's saying I think this should be plus 160. So I'm going to bet him minus 115. 

39:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So this is what I'm talking about the galaxy brain. So did he make an error in a typo? He did not. Here's what people this is what you're not like truly understanding the state of mind of JJ Grubin in here. These people believe that the books know something that they don't. There's no way this total can be 46 and a half Like I make it 49 and a half. This should be like. There's no way they know something. I have to bet the under. That's what the logic is here. That's the thought process. 

39:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Like you realize, I joke about that every week and I send. I text it to you every week. I text it to both you guys every week. Once a week I'll text you guys. 

39:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Johnny sends like in a telegram chat like his lock of the week or whatever, and it's always a pick with some description. 

39:52 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Give us like a sample, like what's a game that's going on tonight, like it'll be like. 

39:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It'll be like Josh Allen was expected all week he's not going to be able to throw, got an arm injury. Obviously, the Vikings are going to win this game. No way they should be getting seven points with Josh Allen with that arm injury. But also, vegas knows something. Give me the Bills' alt line minus 14.5. I send that to these guys for jokes. But this is it. And then these guys are actually doing this. 

40:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm literally joking. You guys obviously know I'm joking, we know, we know you're joking. 

40:26 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I know you're joking, but like this this is what's wait, wait, wait. You're joking. I max bet those, but they about they honestly haven't been doing bad. 

40:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know, but jj gruden has almost 21 000 followers on twitter. I don't know what he has on tiktok, but I'm sure he has a pretty decent following, since it's listed in his Twitter profile as well. Like it's just, more of this gets spread right Over and over. There's some people who know that it's a joke and they do it like jokingly, which is fine. In this case, it's very real and it's unfortunate because you have a sportsbook operations manager who sees the day-to-day process of it and is trying to tell people it's false. And then you know what the responses are when Jeff gets in this thread. It's like you work for the sportsbook. Of course you're going to tell us it's false. 

41:16
Of course you're going to tell us this is the way it doesn't work, because you don't want us to beat the sportsbook. So, like, how are you you gonna win at that point? 

41:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
when you're like, you just tweet under him. Sure, says the sportsbook operations manager. Yes, like that's hilarious man. These guys are jokes. These are jokes. There's other. What's the other one? From from yesterday, the? 

41:34 - Zack Phillips (Other)
great did, but but you got to get into like this part here, rob, like this part. 

41:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That was the initial part that he said it's called luring the public on a certain side. That's no. He did not say that, yes, made me successful. It's called it's. It's called it's luring the public on a certain side. That's made me successful in the space for a very long time. Contrarian, have you coming from a guy that works for a sports book? Only makes me wonder more. So basically he's saying the books are luring the public and that's kept them successful for a long time. As a contrarian, yes, um, yeah, man, this guy's, this guy's like people listen, I'm not saying he's a bad guy. Obviously his dad was a former coach. I would love to listen to his podcast and just see what's up, but, um, I mean, yeah, like I can't. Um, no, I can't even understand what like this doesn't make sense. 

42:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
People. Again. I'm gonna for the millionth time this episode. I'm gonna use the term galaxy brain because I think it really fits in here. 

42:31
But, like, sports books have an edge because they charge a vig. Okay, this is where the sportsbook edge is built in. You go play a casino game. There's a house edge. The house edge is the VIG with the sportsbook. That's why sportsbooks win money in the long run because they charge you a premium in order to bet, plain and simple. 

42:59
It's not because Vegas knows something. A lot of times, it's not even in Vegas where this stuff is originating or where the market is moving. For the most part, you can do things to reduce that sportsbook edge. You can bet into low hold sportsbooks like Pinnacle, for example. If you're in Ontario, that's an easy way to reduce the sportsbook edge. However, if you're in Ontario, that's an easy way to reduce the sports book edge. However, that's where the edge is for the book when they're taking bets. In that, typically speaking, most people are going to win at a 50% rate in the long sample size and you need to win at higher than that in a long sample in order to profit. The whole notion like I don't. I don't even know what? What we? We honestly should have someone like jj on, because I I would love to understand the logic like what do these people think happens? Like is are there some backroom calls that happen in vegas? 

43:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
every week like very much. Think like reverse line movement is a thing. 

44:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay. So I guess there's different extents, because I see it on Twitter all the time. Maybe not the best, it's a very, very small minority of people. But do you think we're at Sundays in the afternoon or Sunday mornings and the sportsbooks are like, ah, we all need this side, and there's like a call that goes into the NFL and says, hey guys, we all need this, and like, then there's the NFL, what are they doing? They're going to then just call the teams. They're going to call the coaches individually and say, hey guys, you know what? We need the Patriots to win today. Unfortunately, the other team is going to lay down and then the coaches are going to relay that to all the players and all the players are just going to like what do people like? The fixing side of things? Like the sportsbook knows, vegas made the call. 

44:57
I joke about that stuff all the time. Right, I saw it on my timeline. That's why I tweeted about this week. Brandon iuk dropped a wide open touchdown for the 49ers against the chargers on sunday night football and first thing I saw was like the fix is it first tweet that came up? Okay, the fix was in that brandon iuk was going to gain separation from his opponent, like there's so many things that happened in the play and then what if the nfl actually was fixed and we were just talking shit. 

45:27
If well, if it was, then I was I. I would obviously issue a public apology at some point, but I'm very certain that it's not. Think about the amount of money that players are making, coaches are making. 

45:39 - Zack Phillips (Other)
You know like it's absurd no, but like, did you see yesterday what, what jeff benson got dragged into on in a twitter thread? Someone asked him. He's like hey, jeff, I know you work for a sports book. Like I'm basically like rough coding is like, I know you work for a sports book, so you probably can't say much, but how much do you think these players are getting paid to alter outcomes of games? And then there was a certain person that's a great tweet. 

46:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
by the way, the phrasing of that question is actually so good. Yeah, I know you can't say much, jeff, but whatever you can say here is appreciated. 

46:15 - Zack Phillips (Other)
And then there was a certain person that we know who replied and was like saying, like convincing this person that they like meet in back rooms, yeah, and like basically come up with discussions and sign ndas and like get everyone involved, from the sports books to the owners, to the refs, to the players, and it's like they write scripts and then they know what's gonna happen. 

46:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All the players sign an nda at gunpoint no, they just sign an nda yeah but like, how many players think, think about okay, let's, let's. 

46:47
Let's assume that there's a world in which players are signing NDAs. There's fixed outcomes. They have to make certain things happen in the game. Do you know how hard it is to coordinate that? For one, like to coordinate an exact outcome, a team winning by X amount of points and making it look realistic. That's impossible. But these players played at the college level and the high school level, and even before that as well. How do you play high school football and then college football, then make it to the NFL, the biggest stage of your professional career, and you get in there and every single player is now okay with just like. We're not going to compete anymore, we're just going to go. This is a, you know, scripted event. 

47:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's basically like wrestling fyi, it's more likely college football would be fixed because, like players, don't make money. 

47:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's what I I'm saying At the lower levels. It's way easier. 

47:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, like definitely, but then you can basically bet enough money to still make it worth it. Yeah, I don't think the NFL can't be fixed. 

47:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It actually cannot be Like. It's actually. Maybe you know I don't like to use the words impossible, but it's impossible. It's impossible, man. Think about it. How could this have not got out over the course of? 

48:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
50 years. I don't know man Conspiracies. All right, let's see what else we got here. 

48:24 - Zack Phillips (Other)
That's it. 

48:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, we got a few more, don't we, I got some screenshots, I think okay while we're, while we wait, just wanted to uh thank our sponsor pinnacle sports in the. 

48:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
In the meantime, just pulled up my bet stamp odd screen here on my computer. Uh, so for all these looking to bet the nfl we talked a lot about nfl. All right, we know line shopping is the easiest way. Pinnacle sports does not kick out winning players, meaning you can bet there there, win a million dollars, a zillion dollars, billion dollars. They're not going to boot you out, right? You do that at any of the other books. Sayonara Definitely won't run it up to a million dollars in your account Probably get kicked after a couple thousand. So what do we have here? Odd shopping, pinnacle offers low juice. What that means is they will likely have when it comes to money line spread total for NFL. They should have the best price on at least one of those of the six options. So home money line road, money line, home spread road, spread over under All right Going here. 

49:21
I'm going to go top to bottom Colts Eagles Indianapolis plus 6.5, plus 100. Best line in the world right now is at pinnacle. Down the list you want the Bears, you want the over 49.5, minus 0.8. Best line in the world pinnacle Commanders versus Texans Washington plus 3.5, and the over 40. Next game you got the trifecta. You can get the New York Jets money line best price in the world. You can get the new york jets money line best price in the world. New york jets spread best price in the world. 

49:51
And the under go down the list. It is there is one game right now which is rams versus saints. That is the only game on the entire board for sunday where you will not have at least one of the six options. The best price in the world for pinnacle. Not saying that these are always going to be the sides you want to bet, but if you don't have pinnacle, you are actually losing money. If you don't have money in your pinnacle account right now, because you're going to place bets and instead of getting the colts plus six and a half plus 100, you're going to get a minus 110 at your sportsbook and win or lose, you just lost yourself roughly 2.225 percent. 

50:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yep, I mean I I don't know what else at this point. Like I've used pinnacle, I'm very proud to represent brands that I've used for a long time and will continue to use for a long time going forwards, and it's absolutely a necessity in my life and should be in any better's life. If it's available to you in ontario, pinnacle should be your go-to for sports betting as always, go to betstamp, check out for all your odds comparison. 

50:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Uh, sign up for pinnacle sportsbook today, not available in the usa, but if you're in canada you are able to sign up for pinnacle. And uh, as robs and I are saying like we're not trying to plug a sponsor here per se Truly you need this sportsbook as one of your sportsbooks. It does not make sense to think that you are going to profit long-term betting sports and you're going to be betting at prices that are not the best in the world. 

51:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The last tweet I'm going to get to today. There's a lot, by the way and keep them coming. Anyone who wants to get to today there's a lot, by the way, and keep them coming. Anyone who wants to get involved. Whether you're watching on YouTube or you're listening hashtag tweets that trigger us. We do search them every single week. We pick the best from the bunch. If you also want to DM me on Twitter, you can totally do that. If you want to DM the Circles Off account on Twitter, you can totally do that as well. If you want to drop one into the YouTube comments link to a tweet that bothers you, we can discuss it as well. 

51:51
Last one, very recent, at Levi. The Logic goes by Levi. Forget that. He confuses Penn State and Penn in this tweet. Just completely forget it. It's irrelevant to the tweet. Okay, public is on Penn State and line moved to Penn State. Drexel would be the play, but, with Penn State 0-3 and favored Vegas, thought everybody would be on Drexel. Looks like a fade game. Drexel one unit, though, but could go either way. This is one of the funniest tweets I've seen in a long, long time, because I quote tweeted this from my own personal account, levi. I deleted this tweet. I believe he thought that I was mocking him for confusing penn state and penn, which has nothing to do with anything. I don't even know where to start with with processing what has transpired here in terms of the logic to arrive at a bet, and not only to arrive at a bet, but to arrive at a bet that is opposite of what you thought, and then say it could go either way. 

53:02
That's the best part about the whole thing, like but like okay, penn and Drexel, public is on Penn line, move to Penn. So this means that also Sharps are on Penn, by the way, or at the price that it was at the previous price. So someone with market influence, move Penn, forget about the public. Public doesn't matter, the line is the line. But because the public moved towards, you know, is on Penn State, drexel would be the play. So right now he's leaning Drexel. But Penn State is 0-3, or Penn is 0-3, and favored Vegas thought that everyone would be on Drexel. So when they posted this line they did not expect the action to be on Penn. They thought people were going to be betting on drexel. I don't know how that's relevant, but now, because of this information, looks like a fade game. Not even not even sure what that means, but it looks like a fade game. So he's taking drexel for one unit, but could go either way. 

54:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He actually can't lose with this. I mean he lost, he lost, but he can't actually like lose for his followers now because if Penn wins this game, he's going to say knew it was a fade game the whole way. Should have trusted it, penn. I called it Penn fade game. If Drexel wins, he's just going to ignore that. He's just going to say one unit winner. 

54:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now there's going to be people who are like, okay, maybe they see some logic here or they don't understand particularly what's wrong with it. We did an episode with Chris Bennett a few months back. You should go listen to that episode in terms of how an odds maker actually sets lines, because this tweet implies that Vegas thinks that everybody's going to be on Drexel. It implies that the odds maker is trying to predict, like who the public is going to be on and the little like. 

55:07 - Zack Phillips (Other)
When people realize how little goes into posting an opening line at a sports book, they would be floored, but like even breaking it down, just like piece by piece, like first part public is on penn state and line moved to penn state. Yeah, chris bennett and like other sports book people that we've talked to or had on before have told us like the public's not going to move. No, I'm not going to move. 

55:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So every sports book that you bet at, you're providing them information. With every single bet that you make, that sports book is now able to profile every single better in their system with a relative degree of confidence in terms of how likely they are to win in the long run. Terms of how likely they are to win in the long run, the reason a sportsbook would move the line towards, in this example, penn state, even though it's penn, is because someone who, or multiple people who are winning bettors are profiled as winning bettors, were betting on penn state has nothing to do with public money absolutely nothing you know what? 

56:06 - Zack Phillips (Other)
you know, actually, a good tweet that I saw yesterday that made me laugh was, uh, someone tweeted it, something like some one one account tweeted and was like, um, the public doesn't actually move the line. And then someone with a following, who may or may not have been in tweets that trigger us in this episode already today, replied and said something along the lines of like that's what they want you to believe. And then I was just like man, this is these people. Just think like people are out to get them I? 

56:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know what it is. I honestly don't know it. It I I will say as someone who's been in this place before I understand it. But once people start to show you, or like once you start watching odds maker interviews and understanding the space and so on and so forth, change your opinion based off of information that becomes available. Here's what gets me about reverse line movement. 

57:01
Okay, people are so fixated on being on the same side as the sharps this is what the whole premise of reverse line movement is essentially wanting to be on the same side as the sharps. But now, all of a sudden, when a line moves, like this example right here in a game, and somebody checks the public bet percentages and the public is also on the same side, they no longer want to be on that side. They've just dismissed the sharp element completely now because the public is also betting it. So if you buy into a reverse line movement strategy which is public is betting here, sharps are betting here, I want to be on the sharp side then why not just buy into, like betting, everything? The sharps move instead because the public is also on it. Like I don't understand the logic behind that. Ken barkley, you better you bet goes by. 

57:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Lock locky, lockerson, he's you know he would be snowy day or sin snowy day or sin, something like that, whatever. 

58:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Whatever he changes his name to ken barkley is a great guy. I do listen to you better, you bet. I don't often promote stuff that's outside of the hammer betting network, but I do suggest you check it out. Ken barkley always says this, which I always laugh at because it's so true. He's like you know what the thing is about reverse line movement. He's like you know what reverse line movement really is. It's just line movement, like it's line movement. The line is now this the line is now that there's nothing with reverse line movement, this and that it's just line movement. It's the way that the market works. Period. Public has nothing to do with it. I mean, that's the reality of the situation. So I there. We can cover reverse line movement to ad nauseum. We should probably do like a standalone video on it at some point, because there needs to be something out there that um dispels the entire yeah, we should actually do that, we should pull it, we should pull one up, maybe schedule that for the next month. 

58:56
Yeah, because it's such it's. It is like the primary way that people are conditioned to bet now. Would you not agree with that? 

59:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
people are always just looking at ways that's honestly a longer combo. We should have this another time. But I think, honestly, like people are always just looking at ways that it's honestly a longer combo we should have this another time. But I think, honestly, like people are looking for ways right now to find bets that they think are unique angles, and maybe Rob and I could suggest some other ways that you'd be able to look for bets that might actually be more sustainable. But yeah, this ain't it. 

59:20 - Zack Phillips (Other)
This ain't it All right Before before we finish this off, actually I just us off, actually I just have a question for you guys, because it's uh, there's two things that have happened recently, so the first one being uh, the barstool invitational basketball tournament. 

59:33
Um, they broadcast it and commentated it themselves and they talked openly the entire time about uh betting, what the odds were, how the odds were being affected. And then uh, on top of that, if anybody was watching in canada, specifically tsn, last night, the the Leafs game, mike Johnson we've talked about it before the personalities he gives out his bets before the game. One of them was John Tavares over two and a half shots on goal and Tavares took a shot to get to three and the scorekeeper didn't tally it it. And mike johnson, like on air, was basically like losing it on the scorekeeper for not tallying the shot on goal. I'm just kind of curious, like because some people were mad about that type of uh introduction or like integration of betting into the broadcast, like, do you guys have any initial thoughts on it? I know, like barstool in their own is a different thing, but more just about how they integrate it, because it was like a fun way of integrating betting into it. So I. 

01:00:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I do think that eventually, over time, there's going to be more and more, uh, obviously, integration into live broadcasts altogether. But like the amount of messages I get on a weekly basis of like, hey, why don't you stream yourself watching the football games on sunday? Like there, I literally get a handful of them a week. That's like, well, I don't want people to see me at my absolute worst in a lot of cases, like you know, plus, I also, you know, sometimes I'm watching and you know who knows what I'm doing when I don't even know the cameras I'm gonna have to go if we could do one of me and you watching football, but then I'm gonna have to step away to go to the lab to cook up some more plates I mean sometimes, when things aren't going well, you gotta get that secret sauce I can't. 

01:01:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm not gonna be able to watch the games. I'm gonna have to go out to the lab, come back and then cook up some more plates. 

01:01:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We should actually um we should actually do like a segment where we're both in like lab coats and we have like all these, uh, these beakers and whatever. Instead, we just start pouring shit into pots and steaming up and then we just pull a team out of the pot Drexel. Yeah, how amazing would that be. We're just adding all these ingredients, pouring different liquids in steaming up and we just pull up the pick. I mean, someone's going to take that content. By the way, I almost don't even feel like putting that in the episode because it's such a great idea it will be incorporated more and more. 

01:01:46
But like this is what happens when um regular broadcasting personalities who don't bet a lot, you know are starting to get in tune with bet. It's nothing. No disrespect to mike johnson. I actually think mike johnson's like excellent nhl analyst. I really, really think he's one of the best out there. But if you bet shot props in the nhl, you would know that this happens every single night, like literally every single night, and sometimes the NHL will fix those after the fact. But guess what? A lot of those plays get graded right away by sports books. It's within the ruling that they're going to get graded at a certain time. So it is what it is. 

01:02:20 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I mean it was just funny, because he's like that's a shot, and then Gord, that's a shot. And then Gord, who is the play-by-play caller on the thing, he's like like Johnny, like they haven't put it up yet. 

01:02:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And then Mike Johnson's just like they better put it up Like that's a shot on goal and he's getting mad at him. There's been a hit man who we've had on circles off as well. He's part of the hammer betting network, um edge rush on Thursdays where he breaks down the entire NFL board. You should check that out. He often just tweets. He bets a lot of props as well. He often just tweets directly at the league of like at nfl. Just so you're aware, this guy picked up an extra two yards on this play or whatever. But like, yeah, it's, people are betting. It sucks when that happens, but remember that there's probably gonna be times where you make a bet and the incorrect like ruling or stats are going to work in your favor as well, just as much as they're going to work against you, if you enjoyed this episode like please thumbs up. 

01:03:15
That really goes to help us on youtube. If you're listening to it, rate and review five stars. We do like to keep that very close to a five-star review, which is you guys are coming in handy right now. Appreciate that very much. Subscribe to the circles offcles Off channel on YouTube. Follow us on Twitter at Circles Off. We'll be back next week. 

01:03:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Sign about Pinnacle in Ontario. 

01:03:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There you go. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Peace guys.