Drama Erupts on Gambling Twitter After Alex Caruso’s HUGE Bet Loss! | Presented by Pinnacle

00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. 

00:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions it's circle back, episode number five right here on the circles off channel. This is the show where we recap the week that was in gambling twitter rob isola here, jeff feinberg in his usual spot. We got the giant jacob grumania producing today Kirk Evans Basketball, better in studio, familiar to a lot of people on this channel. Debut episode. Gotta be nervous, no. 

01:11 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Not nervous, excited. I feel like this show was built for me. 

01:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I actually do think it is. You could be a star of this show for sure, with some of the takes you have. We we're going to start with Alex Caruso who Not the basketball player? 

01:25
Not the basketball player. Very important to differentiate Alex Caruso, the potential scammer, from the basketball player. I'm not a big Alex Caruso fan. Again, not the basketball player. He wrote a write-up on his Twitter account where he was talking about Paolo Bancaro under on points, rebounds, assists, 38 and a half. He's going to get clamped by Siakam. Pretty long write-up. This ends up turning into a 50-point, 13-rebound, 9-assist game for Paulo Banqueiro. Now I don't want this show to be like a freezing cold takes type of situation and I can't even really believe I'm going to do this. But I kind of felt bad for the amount of people that were piling on caruso from this game, because every single better who's like put out content before has had one of these instances. I bet carolina panthers week one against the new orleans saints this year. They lost 47 to 10. They didn't even look like an nfl team. So you kind of like pile on by grabbing, getting someone at like their lowest point type of thing, and it's just. It's just another loss. 

02:41 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I agree with you, and if you bet a lot, you're going to have bets that lose by a lot. So I will agree with you there. But I think it's hard to overstate how horrific the logic of this bet was, because Pascal six of six games I'm not even sure that that was the matchup and Pascal played five of those six games for the Raptors and now only one for the Pacers, and there is not one better matchup for Paolo Bancaro than against the Indiana Pacers. So I agree, losing a bet by a lot, that happens, but this bet was laughably bad. 

03:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean, you'd rather, as a bettor, you'd rather just get your doors blown off than have the heartbreak. 

03:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I agree, I agree Good to hear that. 

03:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But I don't really do anything with the NBA and I had this guy muted so that must show how annoying I find him. Like I don't know, I don't even the name sounded familiar from the basketball player. I was like why did I even mute this guy? So maybe he's annoying enough where he deserves some of the blowback. 

03:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think yes. 

03:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But now I'm like maybe speaking out of turn because I don't really have any familiarity of it. He set himself up for this. Was he on like a big streak, Like I remember like a big streak or something? 

04:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
see like I don't follow. I don't follow alex caruso but where's he? Work, yeah, and I, I think he he just, he says like seen on espn in his, in his bio, which, by the way, that's like when people put that kind of stuff in the bio it's usually a sign of like maybe be beware he was seen walking behind like the concourse when he was at a game, just randomly on an espn stream I would say from a betting perspective, like seen on espn, is probably like to anyone who's involved in betting or bet, or, or bets or follows betting content that is not doesn't hold the same caveat as like being on ESPN in other regards. 

04:47
I'm a little jaded because I used to beef with, like the Philly Godfather on Twitter and his bio was like as seen on ESPN, as heard on Fox Sports Radio and whatever, and he would use these things to legitimize himself. Anyone who came after him for being a fraud would be like well, would ESPN put a fraud on? Would Netflix do a documentary? 

05:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
on a fraud. Would ESPN put a fraud on their network? Yes, they would. 

05:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
By the way, I've worked in mainstream media and booked many a frauds knowing they're frauds desperate for a booking, cancellations, needing to fill lazy, just wanting the grid, just wanting a name in the grid. 

05:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, frauds get booked all the time so I temporarily felt bad for alex caruso here on this particular tweet. And then he pulled out an absolute gem, by the way, when he was tweeting about the presidential election which is going to happen today in the United States. Trump money lie is the best bet you can make on the election. The favorite has won 43 of 45, 96% of presidential elections. All time I actually had to do a double take to make sure that I wasn't getting caught Like this wasn't a fake account. I had to make sure this was the real alex caruso. I don't know about you guys, but like, first of all, where is he pulling the favorite from from elections in like the 1800s? 

06:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
how was there even a betting favorite? I'm pulling up the 1788 to 89 united states presidential election yeah, but were there? 

06:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
are there odds? What was the? Were there odds? What was the closing line? I? 

06:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
can't find the closing line, unfortunately. 

06:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean there must have been some sort of underground bookies taking bets on the elections right. 

06:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But was there a universal? Line on Abraham Lincoln, george Washington, I don't even know about universal, but is there any historical reference or documented to the line or what they were trading at with the underground books? This is a mesmerizing calculation. Here this would be like I don't know. 

06:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You can't even find a bad comparison that does that. 

07:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This would be like capping the next Open Championship at St Andrews and referencing when they played with balls made out of feathers and wooden drivers and stuff. Yeah, literally when they were like rocks, when they were hitting rocks. That's essentially. I'd be like making a bet on a golfer based on that's essentially what this would feel like. You're betting the colts with johnny unitas to cap them for next week yeah, and pretending that you had the odds for those games. 

07:34 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Like you knew that johnny unitas was the favorite. 

07:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I guess johnny unitas you probably had the favorite, but like, yeah, you would have actually known something at that time, because there's always betting odds on the nfl, but the presidential elections I actually don't I mean, yeah, and the swings and the odds, I don't think we've seen anything like this. 

07:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Uh, we're sitting here up in canada, full disclosure. So the political theater of it is truly like. I'm enthralled, yeah, I'm enthr. It is like watching a game seven of a World Series. 

08:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
It's better. 

08:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's better, but having no like. Obviously I have a preference, but not as big of a preference as people might think I have, and I can't wait to watch the losing team's content. Oh, it's going to be so good. I cannot. Whoever it is, I don't even care. I don't know if it's going to be either. 

08:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But like this I cannot. Whoever it is, I don't even care. I don't know if it's going to be either, but this just in breaking news. The losing team is going to be convinced that the election was rigged, no matter what happens here. That's the content we're going to get. 

08:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm not a big political person, but I really enjoy the aftermath of US politics. I mean, this is the theater of it for us and just yeah, it's better than any sitcom. 

08:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It is. I would agree with you 100%. Speaking of, better than any sitcom, that would be Mike Florio's tweets from Pro Football Talk. The two and six Jets are somehow favored by one and a half points to beat the six and two Texans on Thursday night. This was a common opinion I saw as a popular. It wasn't just Florio, we're not just picking on him. A lot of people were really questioning how this could possibly be a line in the NFL. But the thing with Florio is he doubled down in game as well, where he said while the texans were winning I know the jets can still win this, maybe they will, but why were they favored? Who actually would bet money on this team to outscore an opponent? 

09:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
something crazy had just happened. I remember they got a first down on like a fourth and 23, and then the jets did something even crazier. Do you remember what it was? 

09:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't remember the exact thing that caused him to tweet this, because I saw it after the fact and I don't remember the game well enough. I have a fundamental problem, jeff, with the. I can't understand why this team is favored over that team. It's always you know, you get this in college football a lot College basketball unranked team at home to like the great ranked team that's like eighth in the country. They're like what the hell is this line? Sports books are set in a trap. What's going on here? And honestly, again, I often, often sound arrogant. I'm very self-aware that I can sound arrogant, but if you can't understand why the line is the way that it is, you probably shouldn't be betting that sport. 

10:30 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Or talking about betting on it. 

10:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yes, or if you think you have like a five-point edge, you should hammer the shit out of it. 

10:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, that too, that's a fucking game. Florio, you're allowed to place a bet on the Texans. 

10:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like, if you think the line is five points off, maybe more, because I think there's a lot of people who follow the NFL watch it on Sundays, if you like who aren't the biggest fans love it, watch the games. But if you ask them midweek, what's the spread, I'm sure you would have gotten a lot of people to be like, uh like on a street or like Houston minus four Right, lot of people be like uh, like on a street or like houston minus four. 

11:06 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Right, this game was the perfect accumulation of like what the public gets wrong six and two team versus two and six team jets. At home, houston has injuries. All that goes over better or non-betters heads, and then they're so confused as to why it's plus one and a half. 

11:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And the vibes Like. No one had worse vibes than the Jets. They lost a game. They dominated versus the Patriots, but it was a like. The vibes are so bad in New York they're walking around on eggshells in the building. 

11:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They just lost to the Patriots a game that they dominated the box score. Does anyone want to point that out? 

11:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
that they like deserve to win the game by two touchdowns and lost like that factors into the equation here and the part is, I feel like it was a little compounded by the week before it felt like it was a huge one side. 

11:55
Vikings, rams, thursday nighter that had a lot of I don't understand the spread, but this one was even more intense than that one, and I even remember like saying to buddies like we are, we're on the jets. I'm on the jets simply because of this Florio like perspective and a lot of guys in the group chat who felt that I got to pick on you, though. 

12:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I have to pick on you for that. I don't want to do this to you, but the only thing worse to me than like the no I was already leaning the jets I'd already done a show before that tweet on Tuesday where I said I like the Jets, the only thing that drives me crazy. 

12:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But it was like time to fire, even maybe an extra click. 

12:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm guilty of that. For me, the thing that's worse than the Florio tweet because, listen, you can put your money where your mouth is. If you're Mike Florio and you think that this is the wrong bet and you bet Houston and you lose, fine, whatever. You bet Houston and you lose, fine. Whatever you bet houston, you bet your opinion. The stuff that gets me is like the galaxy brained people who are like I fucking love the spread makes. No, I love houston in this game, but the books are telling me. The books are telling me I gotta bet the jets with this line because it doesn't make any sense and they bet the other way. 

12:59 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Like that, to me, is the only thing that's worse in my betting group chat we call that the rat line of the week. My friends love betting that. 

13:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Exactly. 

13:08 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
How are the Texans plus one and a half? 

13:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I got to bet the Jets. I do want to defend Florio in the slightest away from gambling, because he never sells himself as a gambling guy. No, he doesn't. 

13:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No. 

13:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He doesn't even like think him and Sims give picks. But I don't even think they mention spreads, they don't? They just pick the outright winner and that's fine. 

13:28
That's what he does. I actually Florio is probably he gets a lot of hate. I actually really like him because he's the only person with a job in like high-end NFL media who calls the league to like task on a lot of things. He's not afraid to like piss off the league there. Anyone else who works at these league partner places does not do that. Now we can have very like annoying in-game coaching or analytics or betting shit fine, but I love nfl minutiae. I love it like a the silliest little shit, and so does he. So I'm actually um, I don't like hate on him as much as a lot of people we have experience with florio because me and jeff used to work for hardcore sports radio. 

14:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We were producers and we used to book mike Florio long before he was a big name. 

14:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It was just a blog and he would do hits. He was still a lawyer in West Virginia. He was a lawyer. We were booking our hits between him actually doing his day job Before he was fully involved, bought out or not bought out, but paid for the blog. It was like, yeah, I love the blog. I was like we got this guy. 

14:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, he was great, he was always really good to me, but he flipped out on me one day which completely random tangent here. But one day I showed up to work and one of the producers had been let go and they're like Rob, you're taking over this show. It's our marquee drive time show. I'm like, okay, I'm finding out about this today. Like a little bit of advance warning would have been nice. But basically it was like, okay, here's who we regularly have on the show. You know, you can continue to book that roster of guests. One was, uh, steve lyons mlb. Uh, we used to use him fox, yeah, and then. 

15:24
And florio was the other one. So I'm just listen at that point. I don't have a Rolodex. Like I'm in my early 20s, it's hard for me to get NFL guests. I was regularly getting Joe Fortenbaugh at the time with National Football Post, but I would get Florio pretty regularly. I'm just just like getting florio three times a week to talk nfl and then out of nowhere. 

15:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Invoice came. 

15:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I call him one day and he's like rob, I'm not doing the show today. I haven't been paid in in like two months. Nobody fucking told me that I'm filling out invoices for floor. I'm booking this guy like 150 bucks a hit, racking up this mass. I'm like somebody could have told me this, so I gotta go and file an invoice. Our programming director at the time is like what the hell are you doing? Like nobody told me. I thought this guy was just coming on for free. 

16:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah the thing I will give florio credit in the afterlife of that. He actually um held as his rates got higher. He because we had him early. 

16:28 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
He let us keep a lower rate well, also to be fair to florio, he was in the right in that situation 100. 

16:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't hold it against him yeah he's got a deal with having a bad experience because he flipped out on me and I was like, ah, I didn't even know. Like I'm trying to explain it to him and he's calling me like basically, well, he's you're booking him to book. 

16:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's like, yeah, these guys pay me per hit. Well, the program director is like I've made an agreement for florio to come on once a week at this rate. Yes, rob's out here booking him 3x that lazy rob and then months later. You know we're all. We're already pinching pennies and now it's time to to pay Florio for 3x a week for two months. 

17:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah totally all right. Moving on here, self-report. So very interesting thing happens this week. I find this entire story fascinating. Someone tweets at GRP which is actually the second slide that we have here, which is exposing kelly in vegas. Basically he's posting pics that are from kelly in some sort of newspaper. Tags grp. She does not have a notebook, will not show betting slips is very rude. 

17:36
Is a consistent loser at sports, whatever. Going on and on and on grp. Who's on like infatuated with churn off, now adam churn off being a scammer or whatever he like. Does this like? 

17:49
I actually like Kelly in Vegas. I've I didn't before, but I've come around on her. I think he said she has a raspy voice which he likes, which, as I mean, like that's, we're getting the different stuff here and he says that you know she should be at ESPN. She was unfairly, you know, let go and she should have Aaron Kate Dolan's job or whatever. That's one aspect of this entire story which I found weird. The second is Kelly gets wind of this and she responds saying newsflash, I give out one to two NFL plays a week. I gave out the Jets Thursday. Dolphins this morning have Packers right now. This is a contest in the newspaper required to pick five NFL games per week, and she posts her record from another contest where she's also required to give five picks per week, where she's doing better on those than in the newspaper. Better, but yeah, whatever, the record is not great, regardless NFL's hard. 

18:47
NFL's hard. Yeah, whatever, the record is not great regardless. Nfl's hard, nfl's hard. There's part of me that sympathizes, because when you do content or at least when I do I can't say the same for everyone else but not everyone is going to get every single bet that I make over the course of a week. They're not. They're literally going to get maybe 5% of my NFL bets over the course of a week. They're not. They're literally going to get maybe 5% of my NFL bets over the course of the week because I bet a lot of props that I don't do content for. 

19:15
I bet games when the lines move later in the week and it sucks. Like this year when I'm doing an NFL best bets show and I'm 3-6 on my best bets, when I've actually had an incredible year. That sucks, but you have to own it regardless. There's no. You can't just tiptoe around it and be like well, you know, I, I had to throw in three picks for the sake of throw, like you. You don't have to do newspaper picks. Or you can easily say like I'm not a part of this. Once that's out there and it's documented, you, you just have to own it at that point like if you think I'm betting this many nfl games, seek help. 

19:56 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Sorry that anyone looking at this newspaper seeing kelly in vegas's picks is think she's betting these five games. Like she's taking this hard line stance like people shouldn't think she's betting on these games that she's posting in a newspaper. And she like she's taking this hardline stance like people shouldn't think she's betting on these games that she's posting in a newspaper and she says she's required to do it, like no one's forcing her to do anything with uh. 

20:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
so I have it in the rundown as self-report here, because one of the things I like the most about this is that, like if if you are good at betting, you should have the understanding that you want to decrease the amount of variance in your picks. Therefore, you should upgrade your volume. Yes, the fact that she doesn't understand that and you should seek help. If she's betting God forbid five NFL games a week, she may not quite have the understanding. Potentially it's an old school way of thinking. 

20:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't really have an opinion here. Obviously this is my take on it is your defense of yourself. To like reference something that's a contest with stale lines doesn't help you, so you're kind of just digging yourself a deeper hole. That's another. But I know kelly's very polarizing um, I guess, because like there weren't a lot like she's one of the first females to be like a vocal sports better, so she's a mentor to other females and she's yeah, so she wears a lot of heat and I don't like this. 

21:16
I find a lot of humor in George. He cracks me up, everything I don't know. He seems to like happily go after, like any female. 

21:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. So it's nice to see him, I guess, turning in favor, I think I might like, carry the lead with the george stuff, because I think a very like weird factor in this entire thing is that people are now going to george to try to have him expose other people, when I think george might actually need to be exposed. No, like, george exhibits all the behaviors of people that he rips all the time. Yeah, he has a notebook where he's 500 on the NFL. 

21:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Literally we covered him last week where he went 10-11 and he started crossing stuff off. George gets taken a task plenty. 

22:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think I don't know, I don't even I think. I don't know. I don't know how you're going to defend George. I don't know. I think you really like George. Jeff, yeah, I'm a big fan, he's a fan. No, no, hold on. 

22:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Hold on, who is like? 

22:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
do. I think he's a sharp capper. No To expose other people, oh no he doesn't have that right. 

22:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Oh sorry, that's funny. I think picking churn off is an interesting target I do like. As to your point now, he is sort of the people are going to him. I'm sure this summer people are going to be. He's going to be very popular with, like running polls. It's like who should I forensic accountant this season? 

22:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
like I'm not going to lie to you, I may have d DM'd him three weeks ago saying hey, you ever heard of this favorites podcast? Just hoping that he would start to track. 

22:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't even remember. But no, I don't. If you take George seriously, then you're lost. Then see, that's the thing where I defend, but he takes himself so seriously. 

23:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jeff, that's part of what makes him awesome. I get the amusement. 

23:11 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I find the content very engaging at times. I agree that George doesn't need to really be exposed because I think pretty much anyone reading his tweets understands it. 

23:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Let's just analyze his situation. You don't need to expose that? 

23:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm not saying that. I just find it so weird that he calls people out for the exact same things that he does Like. He calls out Chernoff for going on Mitch and Pauly on V-CIN and giving out leans on the game and he literally writes in his notebook like Chernoff rambled for two minutes with useless information and then he goes on BetQLl with with joe ostrowski and sanpaniatovich and he gives out. 

23:52
I like the 49ers against the chiefs because, like I think they're due to win this game super bowl revenge game. Like he just does the exact same things that he's trying to expose someone else what makes him great? 

24:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
that's the charm, isn't it? 

24:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's why I find him. That's part of what I like about George. 

24:12 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I'll also say about George. I think he has a direct correlation between the more popular he gets, the bigger degenerate he becomes. Two years ago George was like posting regular season wins that like maybe were like negative one to two percent. Now he posts some most egregious 500 to one bets I've ever seen. 

24:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I knew he was, he was going down a bad path. 

24:36 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
When he's betting the guy who, like, makes the first birdie in the masters to win the golf tournament exactly. 

24:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm like george, this is not gonna overcome the v. My man Like this is a heavily juiced market. Just because the guy went one under on the first hole and no one else has teed off yet does not give you some sort of massive edge. That's where I knew. You know, that's where. 

24:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I totally knew. No, there's a lot of demarcation points along the way. I don't, but I don't like. Do you know, kelly? 

25:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh yeah, I have a very, very deep history with Kelly Because back in 2013, 2014, odd Shark reached out to me. I was just a writer at the score. I used to write an NFL column. If you remember back in the day, it's like a 5,000-word column every week. Candidly, I thought I was the shit at that time. I wasn't. I didn't know enough about the nfl to be writing that. All the things I complain about from other people now is like I was that person in life. So I just want to point that out. But I went to odd uh an event in vegas. Uh, odd shark flew us out. 

25:42
They would always host a super contest weekend which, by the way, I never, ever regret going to, was some of the best times I've ever had in my life. They had a huge budget. They put us up in a hotel. They'd enter us in the westgate super contest at the time and we would party for a weekend and I met kelly there. I met nick costos there. Sam paniotovic, oddly enough, uh, big cat and dave portnoy, clay travis, uh, todd firman. We had a great, great time. There's more people that I'm forgetting right now. In terms of overall names, we had a great time. 

26:18
I was friends with kelly for a long time. I actually don't know when the relationship broke, but I have a guess, which was you know, when you have like mutual friends and they beef and you just want to stay out of it like I don't want to be a part of that. That was kelly and kanish. Kanish called her out on the internet. I think and again I'm this is pure speculation, I'm not stating this as fact, but I think the relationship deteriorated when Kelly thought that I should defend her in those instances and I didn't. I don't regret not defending her. 

26:56
I think some of the things he said were mean-spirited, but also fair as well. They probably could have worded them a little bit better, but that was it, and she just like stopped talking to me. We texted maybe three years ago where I was like tried to like squash the beef, but like nothing has really changed since then. So yeah, I don't know, it's tough. I, I, I feel, I feel like I just need to keep it real in the space, like if you said something dumb, I would call you out on. If you said something dumb, I would call you out on it If you said something dumb. I do this all the time to finish? No, but it happens. 

27:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, but you see friends who don't even know each other. They're going at it on the internet and then maybe at some point, if they hit you in your DMs like what's up, you know that guy? I'm like yeah, listen, I'm friends with both of you. This is uncomfortable, but I don't know. He's still my friend. You're still my friend. You guys can have your beef. Yeah, like, in the end let's be perfectly honest Like they're technically still all like internet friends. Yeah, like, if I met you once or twice in real life, that would be a lot. So let's call it for what it is as well. Like two of my internet friends are beefing, I guess I don't give a shit, I agree. 

28:11 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
And also everything that happens on Twitter is it's so fake Like for someone to take it so personal. To be mad at you is really funny. But also, how do you think you think this is going to make it better? 

28:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But I think if that happened today, the thing is not that you care, but now I'm going to try to be a mediator. Yeah, if that happened today, I think sports gambling, twitter, internet, it's just so much further down the line that I don't think and Kanish as a person, he's been in a lot of internet battles where I don't think Kelly would expect you to step in front of a Kanishk firing line I just think the whole perspective would be. 

28:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think different. This is definitely going to make it worse, but it's topical. I'd be doing a disservice to the audience if we didn't talk about the stuff that is topical, that needs to happen. That's what this show is all about. 

29:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, no, I think I set you up to like I unintentionally opened the door for you to tell a story about no, no, it's totally fine, it's actually good for the context because I I, I, I liked like me and kelly were friends. 

29:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Every time I would go to vegas I'd message kelly, be like I'm in vegas, like meet up. We used to gamble together. We go out drinking, you know, with the top like we would do stuff. It just doesn't happen anymore. We're not friends anymore. Let's call it out for what it is. We don't talk anymore. 

29:32
One of the biggest things, too, was, I will say like when I joined bet stamp, at that same time she was doing stuff for bet spurts and I was gonna bring this up. I actually didn't honestly even know this, but on one podcast I just um roasted bet spurts at the time. They're a big competitor of ours, but one thing that bet stamp we didn't want to do is like erase people's records and stuff like that. We viewed bet spurts as a platform where that's like pick it now, where people can kind of just like scam their way to success, hide picks, do whatever and I said that as well, and a bunch of people started tagging kelly in like a tweet where I was saying that and that obviously caused things to get worse. It was never meant to be directed at her, but that's just. This is life, man. 

30:17 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
This is life and we I don't think you guys are bearing the hatchet and if circles back existed all those years ago, we could have broken down the knish kelly beef I know like there was a, there was a pizzola knish jeff nadu beef. 

30:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And now, like nadu promos this. You got hacked this week on twitter by the way, that was a completely separate story, but he promos the shit out of this show. He messaged me on the side and he's like this is amazing, like I'm sorry, we had beef before I had a. 

30:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I had a beef with Nadu once. We've been chill for years. Like you said, the Internet's not real. There's a lot. I couldn't even remember what 95% of the beefs are about. 

30:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I say this every year, I say this, but every year I go to Bet Bash and I have a fair amount of people who criticize me online, which is fair. Listen, everyone's within their right to think. But I go to bet bash and these people come up to me and they're like hey, rob, just so you know, this is my twitter handle. I've been pretty harsh to you in the past. I just want to say, like I honestly appreciate what you're doing for the industry. Like why don't you fucking say that to me online? Like why, why does it take us meeting? But it is, it's different. It's just different. Look at Kirk on the internet. This guy's like the nicest guy in person. He's a monster online. 

31:36
He's an absolute monster. 

31:38 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Well, to be fair, I don't criticize you. I don't criticize people I look at as smart. But if people say dumb things, I'll criticize them. But like I wouldn't take that back if I saw someone in person. If you said something dumb online and I criticize like I criticize bet stamp a ton when it was that weird Twitter account for a bit. Yeah, I remember that face and I wouldn't I wouldn't say I was wrong there, but but I do agree, I'm obviously much nicer in person, but there wouldn't be that many reasons for me to be like criticize. 

32:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I wish we could have gone through this show when Betstamp had had that like three months Twitter period where they were, with their engagement, farming a little bit more. I I would have some opinions on that, where I think some of the criticism was over the top, but such is life, such as life. 

32:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Speaking of criticizing, you're gonna say something, jeff well, I'm just just saying, like we're just teasing the people. It just says Steve Fezzik. 

32:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah. We don't even have a good clever caption for him on the rundown board. 

32:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
We threw this one in late, I didn't have time to think of a little caption. 

32:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, jacob has dropped the ball there. The giant dropped the ball. I fumbled this one. But, like, people see Steve Fezzik and they want to tune in to see what that was part of the thought process. From, from the giant over there where he's like yeah, you know what, if it's on the rundown, people will go to Fezzik at some point, which, listen, engagement, farming I don't give a shit. I mean, we're running a content company. At some point you got to do something to draw views. Um, I had a tweet that blew up. Um, full disclosure. I was listening to the favorites when I tweeted that at the time. 

33:05
But something that drives me crazy in the sports space is when people are like go out and grab the three and a half while you can, because there's all the other spots are at three right now, and there's not one time where I've heard somebody say that where the three and a half that was in market is minus 110. And different numbers have different VIG attached to it. So at this time the only three and a half in market were minus 120. And there was plus threes, plus 105 at other books, which is actually a better price. People are like how do you calculate the price. There's lots of tools online you can use to convert prices, but it's fairly simple thing to do. You can look it up on Google and you'll get some good results. Um, fezzik responds uh-oh, I say that all the time. When I, or any sharp, says grab plus three and a half, of course we mean at minus 110, and I'm calling bs on this one because it first of all, three and a half minus 110 so rarely exists. I never even thought about that In the NFL space Because three is such a key number. 

34:13
It's really rare that you see 3.5 minus 110. But it's not just around three or 3.5 or six or 6.5. Like, it just matters. The VIG matters as much as the number does in betting. So I think, as a content creator like you have to get that across. Fezzik was very critical on Forward Progress last year when we used to say what the number was good to. We would say, bet this, it's good to this, and he'd be like oh, like, why would you do that? Or what it's like, why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you? I think that content creators very often lose sight of the VIG period. It's just not natural to talk about yeah well good two. 

34:52 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I will say, like it's a very important part of betting, like if I'm sending a bet I'll say good two, x number. But also you will see a lot of touts go, you know, over four and a half assists. I'd play five and a half as well. Where there's maybe four and a half is good, but there's no chance, five and a half is good. But back to Fezzik he's very close to getting the mute button. For me he has become almost unbearable on Twitter. 

35:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I can't afford to miss out on the gems in there, and also when I or any sharps. 

35:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's election week, You're not muting Fezzik. 

35:31 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I think that might be more. You missed it on his memorial, Especially the fact that he has tweeted maybe 20 times I don't talk about politics and has followed that up with a hundred politics. 

35:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He does a politics show for a sports book. Now I don't talk about politics. 

35:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Is that for real? There's a show. 

35:42 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like a bet Offshore sports book it's just politics, fezzik on politics. 

35:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yeah, it was where we pulled the. Remember the tweet, jeff. 

35:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You were on the show when we talked about his election tweet. 

35:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yeah, where he said he had a hot take the swing states are going to decide the election. 

35:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No fucking shit Fezzik, Only these specific states matter. 

36:02 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
It's, yeah, that's good info, just like three and a half minus 110 is better than three minus 110. 

36:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I didn't know. We did long-form politics talk, yeah, okay. 

36:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I didn't know it was like a recurring show. I thought it was just like a one-time hit. 

36:14 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I think they've done it a few times leading up to the election. 

36:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Listen, I could get really nitpicky with stuff I consume. Lots of content in the space. I actually Fezzik is going to be a regular topic on this show because I think a lot of the things that he tweets are absurd and it's not just me. You can see a lot of the reaction. This is why we use stuff like this on the show because it garners a reaction a lot of cases. The next comment is I've posted a zillion times only play six-point NFL teasers minus 120 or less period. Two sportsbooks have those. Don't lay more than minus 120. Some very rare shops still have minus 110. 

36:51
He's also said a million times long teasers are the only way to go all right, classic style long teaser. Well, you know what happened. I listened to even money podcast last week with ross tucker and steve fezik where he teased a game up from one to seven. That is not a Wong teaser. And then he said for the purposes of this show I will tease it to seven, but in my regular everyday betting I'm going to be teasing it to seven and a half. So don't fucking give it out on the show then, because other people are going to go like this is the issue I have with when you're like, oh, I always say this, but then you don't act it in principle as well, because there's a bunch of people who are just going to play that teaser at seven at the sports book that they're promoting. It doesn't matter if you've preached Wong teasers elsewhere to seven and a half. 

37:36 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Absolutely. I have so many problems with this tweet, honestly. One DraftKings and Bookmaker have those. Yeah, bookmaker only has minus 120 teasers. If you have a not like profiled account, anyone who starts playing those for actual money or wins cannot bet those at bookmaker. Two and I can't say this for a fact, but I'm so confident I know that fezik for sure sends out teasers as official bets on his record. Yeah, and to me that is the worst scam pouty bullshit there is, maybe not the worst you don't like that at all I hate giving up there. 

38:16
Look it's. It's such a known thing. Yeah, long teasers. It's not that hard to put that on your official record, where again he says two books and only one of them is going to kick you off so often and then the other one won't let you do it if you win. Like it just doesn't exist, People won't get it and it has no skill. It's not like sending out, you know, Cleveland minus three. So that's like a massive pet peeve of mine. So, yeah, he's close to getting the mute for me. 

38:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's tough. I can't imagine living with Fezzik muted. Well, I also have GRP muted. Wow, I did unfollow him and he wasn't too happy about that. He did message me on the side. All right, keep it moving along here. 

39:03
One sports book that's not going to limit you if you're winning better is going to be Pinnacle Sportsbook. Very fair limits for everyone. It's a reason they've been in business for 25 years and they have such a high reputation in the betting space, especially amongst the sharp bettors in the space. Make sure you check out Pinnacle Sportsbook If you are in Canada. If you do want to sign up, head over to Pinnaclecom, slash hammer. We don't make anything off of that sign-up. We just promote the book. Because I've been betting there for a long time, I think they're a really quality option for you. You must be 19-plus, not available in the US, as always, please play responsibly. 

39:39
Let's talk bad beats. There were a few. Tua's prop was 243.5 passing yards. He had 254 yards. He was over by 10 and a half yards. With five seconds left in the game garbage time they're trying to go down the field and score. Jalen waddle catches a lateral, runs back 24 yards to his prop, loses. Some may say insane beat. Like prop geek zeke says right here some cashed a winner. Hitman for progress. Saturday prop show to a under hitman's earned some luck. 

40:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I think he really has. He's getting it. 

40:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's getting some luck. Second bad beat this week was um producer jason. By the way, I'll talk about him in a second. He's not in in in the seat today. Kirk is here. He says he'll venmo someone ten dollars if they show him. Uh, a corley first touchdown ticket. Still hasn't Venmo'd anyone $10, by the way. 

40:32 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I know for a fact he lives in Canada, where Venmo isn't a thing. That's another story. 

40:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know why he used Venmo 100% extremely valid point. 

40:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No idea why he put that out there. 

40:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Incredibly embarrassing, incredibly embarrassing. I don't know if anyone watches malachi corley play you probably saw it come on. 

40:50
Yeah, he was walking into the end zone. He pulled the classic deshaun jackson move of dropping the ball before the goal line. Bunch of tickets come in here. Uh, one from kenny ducey that name is familiar to me, I don't know why one by ian just bad, bad, bad beats. Um. Some of the responses to these beats, though, were actually really interesting, where, like I don't want, people get up on their high horse and they're like well, is it actually a bad beat when you know you can, you can somewhat predict that these types of things can happen. You know, late game situations matter in the nfl. There's laterals there, there's quarterback kneels Like I get it, but like at some point you got to draw the line and be like this is insanely like unlikely to happen, jeff. 

41:36 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The two a beat is crazy. But to call the Corley one not a bad beat because, yeah, sure, all the time on Sunday we see lots of touchdowns get called back with a penalty. Yeah, I don't care, I do not care, like sure, in the range of outcome on every play is a penalty that calls it back. It wasn't like you took freaking, um, you know, mixing, at four to one, yeah, and there's a pound. You took the guy at the biggest number. They call the play. He gets in there, they throw the fly, like that is that is a officially a bad. What? 

42:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
are you going to do as a better Like? You're going to call up Corley's like high school teachers and be like hey, was this guy like super dumb? Does he have the chance? Like it just ran. Like it just ran, oh I forgot it wasn't a flag. 

42:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, it wasn't a flag. 

42:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, he dropped the ball. 

42:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, it's an even worse beat, oh my God. Remember earlier in the show we were talking about, I know the Jets gave a first down on a fourth and 23, but I can't remember the other thing they did. That was even dumber and you're like I can't remember the game. This was it. Yeah, oh my God. Yeah, this is unequivocally as bad of a beat You're not going to get a worse beat in your life If you bet Malachi Corley first touchdown score 120 back to one. 

42:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You are not getting a worse beat in your life he was an inch from a touch. When we're talking about probabilities, that's as close to 100% as it gets. It was a walk-in touchdown. All the guy has to. You know, when Jeff famously said all DeMar Hamlin had to do was wake up, all Corley had to do was cross the goal line with the ball in possession, with no defender around. 

43:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's also one of those things where, if that's just a Sunday 1 o'clock game in Tampa, they might not even have the angle, like they didn't have one on Kyle Pitts to overturn it. 

43:33 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Great point. I think what happened with bad beats is it became such a thing and then touts who give out picks would be like oh, lost on the hook, bad beat on like a 4.5 assist. So people went crazy. To like oh, that's not a. To like oh, that's not a bad beat, that's not a bad beat. And then now their minds are kind of warped it shifted to the other end exactly they think nothing's a bad beat. 

43:54
Like if you look at this play, or even the two a play and you think, oh, that's not a bad beat. 

43:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like, no, this is, those two are as bad beats as it gets when you are 99.9% to win a bet and you lose, it's a bad beat, plain and simple. When you bet the Bears against the Commanders and you lose on a Hail Mary, that's a bad beat. 

44:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They also went to commercial as they're reviewing this and in my head as they like, well, he's never. In my head as they're commercial. I'm like, well, he's never scored an NFL touchdown before, so maybe someone on his own team picked up the ball, which wouldn't have been his touchdown either. But then you see that ball like roll out of the back of the end zone on like a high cam. 

44:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's true. 

44:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
So slowly like one extra rotation. Oh my God. 

44:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One extra rotation. Yeah, I think the definition of bad beat needs to really be ironed out and crystallized so that there's like a uniform way. And to me, if you're 99 times out of 100 to win a bet and you lose, but like SVP does something and I think those are pretty authentic bad beats. 

45:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Svp does those. 

45:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I believe Lockie Lockerson, Ken Barkley, was the originator of that segment for SVP. 

45:19 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I think for bad beats you need something kind of like extraordinary to happen, like either of these plays. It's not a bad beat if you're really close to winning and lost, or even if your team took a big lead and then blew it like those things happen, those aren't bad beats. Agreed, something extraordinary happening, like malachi corley dropping the ball at the half yard line, that qualifies a hundred times out of a hundred percent. 

45:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think it. Can I get irrationally upset when people call stuff a bad beat that I don't consider to be a bad beat? Again I say irrationally, I know that it's not a rash, but you know, I'm watching seahawks, rams and I'm on the rams. All my friends are on the seahawks because, like you know, rams are the public side or whatever. This is like all my friends bet and they're flipping out in the group chat when in overtime the Seahawks go for it on a fourth and one and they get stopped and they're like, ah, terrible beat. I'm like what? What's the terrible beat here? They had third and one, fourth and one. They ran two running plays. They got stopped. You know how often that happens in the NFL. This is a what when? Yeah, it sucks. 

46:29 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
You were in a position. Yeah, it's just. It's a regular play in the flow of the game. This is football, yeah. 

46:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But you know, when you go into overtime or you know these types of situations like those are bad beats man. You know Patrick Mahomes in in the Super Bowl when you got him over rushing yardage and he's not taking regular kneels, he's dropping back. 

46:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Bad beat's also gotten the thing where if it's the last leg of my parlay and it's minus 250 and it doesn't win, like the five-point favorite loses, that's a bad beat just because it was, doesn't qualify. 

47:03 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Yeah, that's not a bad beat to me, that's regular course. 

47:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You lose minus 250 and a half Five-point favorites lose every night in every sport. How about injury? 

47:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Like have you had Olave again this week? 

47:16 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Not a bad beat? I agree not a bad beat. 

47:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You should be honestly when you're betting props. You should be pricing the chance of an injury into the prop. 

47:33 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Especially if it's Chris olave who gets injured. Yeah, like to me, it's a bad beat. If, let's say, the player you have over 50 yards the player's at 49 and then gets hurt, that starts to get into qualifying, but players get hurt all the time, that's not a bad beat. Yeah, I don't know, there's tons of exactly if a guy gets ejected. 

47:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Bad, where do you. Where do you stand on those college football games this year that where they didn't play the 15 minutes of the fourth quarter because they were such big blowouts that the teams just agreed we're not going to play the full 15. 

47:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
That's a bad. 

47:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
B. 

47:55 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
That's a bad B right. 

47:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
How are you going to account for that? You can't possibly. 

47:59 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
But, does the game not void? 

48:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Basically it is, but you have, okay, you've already won your. 

48:04 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Well, there's some it is yeah. 

48:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So if you have a team, but you have. Okay, I see You've already won your team is winning by like 65 points and the spread was 40. 

48:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And you're late 30. Yeah, you've already got it, it's done. 

48:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But they basically said well, you know what? 

48:17 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
It's like, it's just not a game. 

48:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The thing is can you say it's a bad beat. 

48:24 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
It's definitely in the realm Like it could be applied for. To me a bad beat is something you apply for. You already won. 

48:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you won. The money would be in your account, but you haven't lost. The difference is you haven't lost here. 

48:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Semi-bad beat. You didn't lose, but you would have had that money. I guess you can technically consider you lost that money still. 

48:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Calling our shot makes his way on to our show for the second time in five episodes. Um this week, where he posts a minus 292. Same game parlay that loses um bow nose, infamous for twitter beefs with our guy hitman forward progress. Uh, buddy lost a minus 292 bet sent to 288k people. Wake up, fam. You know when, like two people who don't you feel like, don't know what they're doing, are arguing with each other. 

49:16 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
But you just want to say this is about the blind leading the blind as much as possible, like I couldn't think of two people who know less arguing I know nothing about calling our shot and like am I? 

49:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
he just gives off the vibes to me of a huge following tweets. Enough dumb shit. Where I'm like I don't know, but I actually don't know whether he look at these two tweets here, or the tweet and the bet slip. 

49:44 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
You know all you need to know well goal pick a bet, a bet between minus 250, minus 500 every single day and roll over the winnings. I started with $25. No problem with betting minus 250 to minus 500, but that goal whatever, really dumb. And then you see the bet Mark it in 15+ Sabonis, 10+ Sabonis, 8 plus rebounds. That's the classic horrible. You're paying the juice a bunch of times and parlaying them. So I would say you, you know all you need to know well, here's what I'm gonna say. 

50:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So for those listening and not watching on youtube, there is the bet amount of this wager in the screenshot that he posted, which is 30.95 at fanduel. Fanduel is like a book that caters to rex and sharps. They're not gonna give you like the biggest limit in the world. If you're limited at FanDuel, you're pretty. You've done a pretty decent job as a better, but I mean that could not be limited. It's a strange one. 

50:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
It's a strange bet amount is either, like you, you hit your limit. $3.95 is also. I have $30.95 left in my account. Let's dump it on this super juice parlay, just get some of it back. That would be how I have friends who think like this when they are on the last little bit of what they have in their account, they'll bet on something super juice just to recoup a little bit of that. That's the mindset. 

51:04 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
What they like to call a bankroll builder One of the dumbest expressions in all the sports betting. But I will say slight inside knowledge, I'm pretty confident his account is restricted yeah, yeah, slight, slight, inside knowledge yeah, like I'm quite confident in that, but also I'm pretty confident that it was a really dumb decision see, like bo knows response to this. 

51:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Bo Wagner, and if I wanted to roast calling our shot for this bet, I'd be like buddy sent out a minus 292 that you know really should have been priced at whatever nowhere near valuable bet type of thing. But Bo is like many people in the betting space who think that as soon as there's a minus attached to a bet it cannot possibly be a good bet. It's like the people who are like well, I'll never lay more than minus 160 on a baseball game because you know it's too much juice at that point. I have been very open that I lay big numbers, especially in hockey, on like goalie not to get a shutout player, not to score a goal. Actually last episode you were with me I laid Nick Paul not to score a goal. I lost, he scored yeah in that game. 

52:15 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Well, that was automatic. Yeah, I was gonna have it as soon as you say it publicly I do this all the time. 

52:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's incredible value in some of this stuff, so it's like another sign to me again. People love to call each other out in the space and and spat, but there's plenty of times where someone will give out a minus 292 bet that really should be priced at like minus 500 and it can be a value. But I'm not saying this one is, but it's uh, it could have been, it could have been you, it probably was. 

52:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
you can realistically handicap a game and say I know this is like, I agree with kirk, it's like the classic type of bet for this game. Like you take the marquee players to get above their averages, I understand that. But you could come up with a game script where this you could consider plus EV. There's nothing wrong with taking a minus 292, as long as it's plus EV, which I think we could argue that this, in this case, is not. 

53:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But I don't want to pile too much on Collinger. Well, jacob, you work with Pips on the board on pick and roll right. 

53:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
That's why I'm saying it, because Pips would come up with parlays very, very similar to this. I mean, pips would likely not be putting like minus 292 on the show Not that he wouldn't bet that but you can come up with a game script where you just think Mark has a good matchup here, sabonis has a good matchup. He's going to be getting a ton of minutes and bet that. So you know, in slight fairness to calling our shot here, that's potentially what he sees. Maybe you could definitely argue against that. But I think the point of this is you can find good bets that are minus 292 or way higher. But yeah, I would argue that when people see minus 130 or more, they think it's just not a good bet. 

53:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Minus triggers people so much. How dare you give out a bit? Listen, there's a difference between minus 292 and minus 8,000 Purdue Moneyline. I would say Like there's some room for error in between there. But we'll keep it moving along here. Kevin Durant tweets out great dub sons and for my parlayers, better luck next time, lol. Now there's a lot to unpack with Kevin Durant. In particular, he does tend to respond to people on Twitter, oftentimes not from his own account but from his burners, which were uncovered years ago. I do have sympathy for the players who constantly get tweets when they don't hit their point total and whatever. But dude, how much is Kevin Durant making? What's the max? 

54:48 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
contract. He's probably making like 50 million this year. 

54:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, fucking like mute the accounts and move on. Dude. 

54:54 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
That's just not what he's like. Look at the profile picture. 

54:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
He's got all the swords pointed. Is this from Tangled? Yeah, all the swords pointed at the guy. I didn't see this movie, but I don't know. 

55:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Is it from Tangled? 

55:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I don't even know, I don't know Whatever, but for anybody, listening to audio. 

55:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's the meme where the guy is. He probably brings the girls to the Disney movies and stuff like that. 

55:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
It's the meme where the guy's smug with his arms crossed and he's got like 20 swords pointing at his neck, so he's egging people on. The NBA has dealt last season with a player who was betting against his own team and betting against his own numbers. You'd think you'd have a little bit more awareness not to post something like this which could be considered insinuating. That's what you're trying to do, because, also, somebody replied I didn't put it in here. Somebody replied I bet you feel good about yourself and he said extremely, he's happy he played poorly. 

55:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's not a good look for the there is not a player active player in any sport I could ever think of, who is as good and as talented as kevin garnett durant who is durant, who simultaneously, is so bad at the internet yeah I'm with and understand, like, the level of like. 

56:07
We see a lot of mids get into it on the internet, like to use their platform as mids in the league and I don't even say that as an insult like they're mid-level players in they're trying to professional sport. Yep, I've never seen a player of the at the pantheon talent level of Durant engage in the internet but also simultaneously be so fucking bad at it. 

56:32 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
Yeah, that's a talent. I will say he tweeted at Matt Moore, absolutely dummying him. So now he's in my good books forever. So yeah, I'm sure there's wins. 

56:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm sure there are wins in there. 

56:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's just to me again. I think a common theme on Circleback is a lack of self-awareness. Right, betting whether you are, you know if you're watching this show. You found it on a betting YouTube channel or a podcast. I'm sure you're into betting. Betting is good for the league. Let's call it off for what it is. There's a lot of visibility. More people watch the games because of it. There's a lot of visibility. More people watch the games because of it. 

57:08
If you're an athlete, you would want this. You want gambling to be legal on your sport because it just draws more visibility to your sport. Of course, you're going to get the stupid idiots who message you every single night of like dude, you cost me this parlay or whatever. You're fucking making $50 million a year. Just ignore it. Have someone else handle your social media. Do anything, but respond to the people with potential implications of like I'm glad you lost, you know? Like, maybe next time I won't get that extra rebound or something like that. Don't do stuff like that. It just seems like a very common sense maneuver, especially not to just tweet out something like this. It makes no sense to me. 

57:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
This is what he does though this is what he does. He always does this, I know. 

57:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean I put the people who tweet at players for their performance. 

57:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, they're worse. 

58:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean they're as bad as the dudes in New York who try to rip the ball out of the guy's glove. Like it is that level of like loserdom 100%? 

58:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That you're in the same. It is worse. It is worse. Maybe At least the guy who tried ripping the ball out like did it? 

58:15 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
He was there, you know. 

58:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yeah, the thing was nobody would say anything like this to Kevin Durant's face. The New York Times was horrible, but at least they did it to the guy. At least they did it. I'm not absolving those people. 

58:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not absolving the loser on the internet who's tweeting at the athlete of like dude, you fucked me, go to hell this, and that I'm not absolving that. 

58:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
That's a different level of stop betting, you got some serious mental health issues, which Durant actually said something along those lines in one of the replies Like you're getting mad at me because, you have a gambling problem. 

58:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And that's a fair comment. That's fair. 

58:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But I mean not from him. It's a fair assessment. 

58:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's a fair assessment. Do that from your burner. 

59:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, exactly, Get someone else Like anyone but you and I'm sure the league. 

59:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They're going to get better at it, or it's probably part of, like, the training camp league orientations, where someone comes in and talks to them about the harassment that they now will face because of the prevalence of gambling, like that's yeah, sucks it sucks it does, but also this exit on it does, Like this is going to. 

59:35 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
It incites a riot by doing this. 

59:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're inciting the riot Like you. Just let it go. Just stop responding to people. Now that people know Kevin Durant responds, they tweet at him more. This is how the world works. Yeah, period, right, max homer roasted. Some guys golf swing. Before now everybody tweets their golf swings at max homer for him to roast. Now that's different, like it's not doing anything wrong. He's having some fun with it. But you, when you bring on that interaction, more people interact max homer. 

01:00:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean you could rank, you could debate where he like ranks, but one of the better pro athletes at the internet. 

01:00:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, for sure. 100, he gets it. Yeah, totally gets it. Can take a joke, can tell a joke. Yep, key doesn't cross the line with the jokes. He, he, totally gets it. Uh, we're gonna end off with a very unique edge here. 

01:00:27
Livedog Luke, who I've met several times, is Spanky's head trader. Spanky, professional, better, if you haven't heard of him before. Pretty serious, better. Luke tweets out something like really cryptic, I would say. Sometimes all you got to do to get a free half point is create a fake Twitter account, put up a team logo banner and throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks. Then brett farve 444, known shit disturber, also professional, better, very good. 

01:01:00
Hope nobody is actually paying unabated sports, to take gary bro 354-555-77 word for it. So putting this all together if you haven't put it all together yet, unabated is putting together a news bot, a feed, yeah, a feed Very similar to Underdog, which people use in this space, and they're doing one for college football. Gary Browning, gary Bro, bro tweets out sam houston state university quarterback hunter watson is starting tonight after missing the second half versus wku per team sports spokesperson. The unabated bot now picks this up as news and reports it hunter watson will start versus FIU tonight. The market steams off of this news. So listen, I have. This is a news feed that I use, as I use as many news feeds as possible. Someone sees this. They're like this. Gotta be real. Boom. They bet Sam Houston State. Move it from six and a half to seven. Luke created a fake Twitter account, posted fake news, got it picked up by an injury bot to get the line to move from six and a half to seven. To bet the seven. 

01:02:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
A key number If this is not the most clever technique I think I've. 

01:02:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I cannot undersell how clever of a technique that is to get yourself some value in sports. 

01:02:35 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
This is genuinely the best thing I've ever seen, like I've never. It's so smart. I aspire to do something like this. It's so funny. The fact that it was unabated also makes it even funnier. 

01:02:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Just having that idea is incredible why do you say there's a layer there? Yeah, because you think people generally root against. 

01:02:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Unabated is that, no, like if it happened to espn. If it okay, if that might be true. Yeah, that might be true if it happened to espn? 

01:03:02
we'd all be, but I'm just saying, if it happened to anyone, if it happened to any news service, I think people would find it funny. I think if it happened to a newer service, people behind it who some people think take themselves hyper way too seriously, I can see why in the cake that is this story, there's a layer in that cake of humor as it pertains to Unabated. I can see it. 

01:03:29 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
The reason. If this was ESPN it would be funny and it would be really smart, but I wouldn't feel the connection to it. But the fact that it's so intertwined in gambling Twitter as well that they're pulling a fast one on Unabated and obviously these guys are intertwined makes it even better. 

01:03:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm just saying it'd be funny if it got to Roto World. Yes for sure, I'm just saying anyone trying to be above the nonsense falling for the nonsense. I think there's a layer of humor in it. 

01:03:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, BrettFar444 rarely tweets anymore. I think he doesn't even follow anyone on Twitter. He just follows one person. He doesn't tweet. The fact that, like him, tweeting this very clearly shows a negative sentiment towards unabated and I think part of it is you build out tools to help other bettors and I'm a pro sports better. 

01:04:20
I don't want this shit, absolutely I don't. I don't like it and I think that's the negative sentiment. Here's's what I will do. Coming from the product space, everyone is roasting Unabated, like this is bullshit, I'll tell you. Every injury bot, every news bot gets got at some point. 

01:04:38
Underdog gets got, they just delete the tweet very quickly. When they get got, everyone gets got. It's very unfortunate when you're building out something like this and I will say I have something like this that's private, that I use for my own personal betting, that my betting partner built out, and sometimes we get gone. We get a telegram alert this and that, and then I go look into it. I'm like no, no, no, we gotta you refine. As it goes on and they will constantly refine. It is a free product right now, which I I assume that at some point or another they might intend to charge for whatever. But like it happens like that, that's what I don't like. People want to stop. Oh, like, look at this like unabated, they fucked up. You should never like trust this source or whatever no, I don't think they're beyond repro. 

01:05:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like I don't think, like all credibility is lost, like I. 

01:05:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I don't, yeah, no, I don't think they're beyond repro. 

01:05:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like I don't think. Like all credibility is lost yeah, neither do I. I don't. Yeah, no, I don't think it's anything like that. I'm more focused on like I'm enthralled at how awesome this is. It also in some ways like shows how do I put this? Like you guys, you professional gamblers, like you work, whether it's how many Twitter accounts he had to create to get one to slip through. 

01:05:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Or how many. 

01:05:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It wasn't the first time he did the amount of like you know, just keeping up with your runners and staying on top of it, like I'm not, like there is real. I don't know people could debate. Like you know you're not like a pipe fitter or something, but like there's a level of like grind. Yeah, I should say I am just enthralled with this level of grind. How much work really goes into the minutia of trying to magically make that half point, that crucial half point. And, by the way, he did luke. 

01:06:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I messaged luke on the side. He did did send me a screenshot of a very large wager on fiu plus 7, minus 115 so he did get it to move. What was the final score? 

01:06:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I actually don't even know I don't even care what it? Was you're right, you're right. You know what? 

01:06:52 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I don't want it to even damper the story if it didn't get home it's irrelevant, let me look it up gary bro, gary brownie gary bro gary bro, three five, four, five yeah the unabated, like everyone gets got, like you said, but just when your bot picks up something wrong, it's probably someone tweeting something that a beat reporter thought they had information and the information was wrong. It wasn't Luke intentionally trying to get you to bet the line so he could get the plus 7. 

01:07:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It does make it seem worse, like the optics of it are worse because it's a known, because it was intentional and I assume every game that luke has flirting near a key number. 

01:07:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's sending out goober tweets hoping they get paid. Like I'm saying, like it's like the corked bat, like this is the one we caught. This isn't the only corked bat you've gone to the plate with this one, just this one just shattered I also don't think if he got underdog or espn, he would have tweeted about it. 

01:08:00 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I think the fact that it was unabated well, so that's a different conversation. 

01:08:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Because Captain Jack has been very vocal recently. I don't know if we have that as well, jacob, we do yes. So this came up from Redacted Gambler, who is very interested in the betting space. But he clipped something from an unabated stream where Captain Jack is talking about. You know he never references Spanky, but he does use the word the most destructible force of top-down betting and says that he doesn't care about helping other bettors. 

01:08:37
I did watch this clip several times. We'll post it down in the description below if someone does want to see it specifically and watch it and judge for themselves. But there's like some side beef going on here as well. I I want to say very explicitly um, I saw jack within the last month. We chatted for quite a bit. I've talked to spanky pretty regularly. I would call him a friend. I don't want to talk about any personal details that I know because it's it's like in confidence that these people talk to me. But I think it's pretty clear that like there's something publicly that's that's going on there and I think you're right, kirk, that I I feel almost like it was like a pat on the back of like you got got type of situation for sure, and I guess it's a bit different because spanky does have spank odds, so he is trying to be helpful to top down betting. 

01:09:32 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
But like the most destructive force of top down betting to me is like a moniker that I would want, like I would if I had the option of absolutely destroying top down bettors, faking them, and they always got the wrong number. That's something that would be. That's like amazing shit, exactly so that like to criticize someone like that to me is really funny because like he doesn't, if he's faking the market he doesn't owe the top down betters good lines. 

01:09:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, there's also that'd be like mocking the guy who hits the most home runs in baseball. Sure that's who wants to know that guy. 

01:10:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right, yeah, there is more to it, right, Like that full clip that was cut here by Redacted Gambler. It starts with somebody asking what happened to the Caesars line on Unabated. That's no longer available and I deal with. You know, I co-own that stamp. We deal with feeds all the time and it is tough to get a Caesars feed right now like a real-time, live Caesars feed. There's several reasons for it, but Jack insinuates that we can't get the Caesars feeds because Spanky has cut a deal essentially, spank Odds has a deal with Caesars that they wouldn't sell it to other people. 

01:10:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's what Jack is saying. 

01:10:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
that's the insinuation right, and there could be more to it. Jack certainly knows more. Uh on, but to me, like that's honestly I hate to say it because, like I would love to have a live caesars feed as well that's good business that's. 

01:11:03 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
That was my when I watched the video. That was my thought the entire time. Like he's complaining, like he's owed a caesar's feed, like that's something that he's entitled to like, okay, if spanky pays enough and has their own caesar's feed and has an exclusive right, here's the thing this is. 

01:11:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean, like the ecosystem is huge. Yeah, the gambling, the sports gambling ecosystem is huge. Like I said, it might not even be what you're involved in, but the sundress walks are as part of the ecosystem, just like top-down betting debates. They're different parts, but they're in the universe. I would say, outside of the people actually in this, who the fuck's supposed to give a shit about what's happening to top down bettors? 

01:11:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
yeah, like as a better a a. 

01:11:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
What do I call myself? A sophisticated square? Okay, like who the hell's supposed to care? Like even other pro bettors who don't participate in top down, yeah, do they give a shit if something's happening to top? 

01:12:06 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
down better they would actively cheer against them, or at least I would actively listen. 

01:12:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I do some top down bet. I bet nba props from a top down perspective because I don't know anything about the nba and it's a way for me to spend a little time and make a decent ro. Like I can do a 10 roi on nba props by not doing any work. But I generally, as an originator in hockey and football, view top-down betting is like cheap, lowly scummy. I don't give a shit like if I'm top-down betting and I get got by someone faking the market on some sort of specific prop. Like fuck, who gives a shit? Like that's on me. I'm trying to take the lead like the the least resistance resistance path as possible. Sure, I'm gonna get god on some fakes. I can deal with that like I don't. 

01:12:53 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
I don't really get that argument and even on top of that, even past, who cares? There are a lot of top down better, so they obviously care. Who the hell feels bad for jack? That he can't get a caesar's feet? Yeah, no one thinks that jack is entitled to that, so that is bad about there's a word for that that he can't get a Caesar's feet. 

01:13:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, no one thinks that Jack is entitled to that or feels bad about that. There's a word for that that's like well, he's got a business. But it does reek of like significant main character syndrome. 

01:13:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, Agreed, agreed. You know, I think that there's this general feeling from some people maybe Jack would be one of these people where it's like we should all just get along in the space. It's helpful, like I view it this way. But they're running competing businesses, I understand, but growing the market as a whole is helpful for everyone. It's no different than when I consulted for offshore sportsbooks in the past, and you know the sportsbooks I'm consulting for are trying to get crypto deposits because it's way cheaper. 

01:13:47
And you know the sportsbooks I'm consulting for are trying to get crypto deposits because it's way cheaper. They don't have to. You know they don't have to source a credit card processor that's going to charge them 15% on every dollar that's coming in. They can process crypto transactions for nothing. Well, guess what? All of the offshore sportsbooks are trying to get crypto transactions. 

01:14:06
So why don't all these groups just come together and have like a crypto campaign? Let's, let's all collectively put a bunch of money in and get a campaign out there about how easy it is to use crypto, this and that, instead of trying to compete against each other by off one upping each other on bonuses and stuff like that? I do think that in this space with, like betting tools, odd screens. It's in the best interest of all the companies to promote top-down betting, get education out there, but at some point or another it is business as well. And if you can get yourself a USP, a unique selling proposition, a one-up on everyone else by having a feed that nobody else does, that is maybe coveted. You got to take those shots, jack, wouldn't. 

01:14:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Of course he would. I'm sure he would. Yeah, I mean, it's easy to say that he wouldn't, but if the roles were reversed, I don't know. 

01:15:01 - Kirk Evans (Guest)
And also in your example. Yes, that's a perfectly logical way to go about it if all the businesses don't have a crypto feed. But if one of those offshore sportsbooks was able to get crypto in and none of the others could, they wouldn't want to help the other sportsbooks because that's an advantage for them. So right now Spangod has that advantage. Why would he give that away? It's not like he's doing something nefarious, he's just probably paying more. 

01:15:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's a lot. There's more going on behind the scenes, definitely. I think there's, like some you know. One thing I noticed is it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. I don't know the details on this, but I noticed this year Unabated was not a sponsor at Bet Bash, whereas they were in previous years. Whether or not they wanted to sponsor it or they chose to not give sponsorship dollars there, they were all there. So there's something like there's definitely some sort of you know, personality clash happening that contributes to all of this in one way or another. 

01:16:00
But my stance is very clear and I would. I would say this even as as a co owner in Betstamp. We have the same issues now with the Caesars feed. I don't really publicly complain about them. I look for solutions and we all look for solutions on this type of stuff because we want to better the product, like I don't want you know handshake deals to happen under the table and things of that nature to source. 

01:16:23
But if they do, that's just part of life. You look at, like fucking wwe vince mcmahon how he buried, like all of the companies coming up. You adapt or die, man. If you're in business, you got to adapt or die period and some people won't like it, but guess what? They're gonna get left in the dust and that's that's the reality of life. Unfortunately, that's the reality of life. If you enjoyed today's the reality of life, if you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you smash that like button down below. And of course we read all the comments. If we're wrong. You think any of us are wrong or misguided on some of the opinions, let us know any single one of these opinions and of course, we're back here on Circle Back next week, tuesday at 8 am. Thanks for watching, peace out.