00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. 

00:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions it's circle back, episode number nine, right here on the circles off youtube channel. This is the show where we recap the week that was on gambling twitter and it was quite the week on gambling twitter. Some great topics for today. A reminder if you want to get in on the conversation hashtag, circle back on Twitter. We review that hashtag every week. We incorporate it into the show. 

01:10
I'm Rob Pizzola, kirk Evans, jeff Feinberg to my left, jacob Grimenia, the giant producing behind the glass today. Let's start, boys, with the cash-out controversy. Bill Crackman, gab Goody, going head to head on twitter. Gab goody uh, influencer, sports betting influencer in the space tweets out it's okay to cash out. Don't let the people on the internet lie to you. She shows a picture of an sgp which she cashed out. 

01:37
Crackman bill crackenberger, who I recently interviewed if you want to check out that interview here on circles off. He replies, quote tweet says let me ask you a question where is your cemetery located, the one where all the victims of your advice like this are buried? That blows up. She responds in a in a thread saying can we go one day without a man crying? There's no way. A geriatric in a peaky blinders hat is trying to run on me on my Monday. I got to admit I laughed pretty hard, like all around at this entire interaction. I don't know what your initial interaction was. I understand Bill's mindset here because when you operate as a pro you see kind of stuff that's like more recreational square. It can build up and trigger you. I've been in these types of situations before where I've maybe got like overly upset about something. I think she's well within her right to defend herself obviously as well. I don't know what your take was on the interaction, so a lot to cover here firstly, the the. 

02:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think it was just so egregious by crack because the gabby tweet was maybe like a two out of 10 on the like. Whatever, she cashed out a $55 bet. She probably lost a little EV. Who cares? And cracks tweet was a 10 out of 10 attack on her. Where are all the victims? Victims, the bodies buried Like who cares about this? It's such a small cash out. Maybe she lost a little bit of EV, but yeah, I'm just totally on Gabby's side here. She put him in a body bag. This was a hilarious tweet. She kept going and all of them were really funny. Also, crack comes off to me as a guy who's more more more show than edge in reality yeah, I mean this. 

03:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There was lots of back and forth, as we see on the screen here, and, like this, this conversation escalated into gabby just basically responding to everything saying you're a scammer, like scammer, scammer this and that and, uh, you know it. This is the weird crossover, in my opinion, of like recreational betting Twitter, gambling Twitter, which is fine. It's just people betting small amounts of money, sgps trying to win stuff. Listen, like I see bad advice, like cash outs. I don't want to say it's exclusively bad advice because, first and foremost, it's not always the case. There are some iterations where you would cash out and stuff like that. But I'm with you. I don't know what was going on in Crack's head, but it seems to me like there might be some pre-existing stuff where maybe it escalated to a point where it's like I feel like I got to step in and say something about this here. 

04:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So let's back it up a page here. Uh, jacob the tell that crack should have known he needs to stand down. And I'm not unit shaming, I don't give a shit, yeah, but it's the site right there. The total wager is enough for crack to know that this isn't who he needs to be coming at that. No one for all, like no one's actually following her. Those picks for real money or like a substantial amount, and that is a part of the ecosystem that he's got to acknowledge exists and not let it get to him. 

04:58
Second, I find I enjoy crack. I find him charming. As I said you rob many times, there are very few people left who still do it on the Internet but were from a previous generation where they actually made bets before the Internet. You know we all made all our bets on the Internet other than you know, at friends, at Super Bowl parties, you know, with family members in person. You know what I mean. We've all bet from the internet. We've all sort of grown up from the internet. 

05:28
When you are crack, you have got to be very careful. Coming at a young buck who has grown up on the internet and not to think there's not one in the whole store, like calling you a geriatric in a Peaky Blinders hat. That grounded me. That was my introduction to this exchange and that pulled me in because I giggle. But I, I like crack. I like hearing the stories of um, yeah, of a different age. But that wager size has to make him know that this is not like where, um, you need to go and do this. Oh, so who gives a shit? This person might have made that bet, thinking, once I cross 50, I'm taking it out, yeah, and I'm going out for a friday night with the girls or something but as you like three drinks like I have. 

06:15
No, I have no idea. 

06:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Everyone's got a different game, but the wager size should tell crack that he doesn't need to fight in that ecosystem I understand what you're saying, but I gotta tell you like, just on a personal level, I've been there before my friends. When my friends tell me like they're cashing out a bet, when I, I will always go into the speech of like why you shouldn't do this, they don't give a fuck and I get that. But it's in my nature to to like I don't. It's not even to look smart, but it's just like, don't do that. Like trying to educate people, right, it's like watching deal or no deal with my family back in the day, sure, and they're like you got to take the deal or what I'm like? No, you don't got to take the like. Don't you understand basic expected value? Like there's two briefcases here one is zero, one is a million. The guy's offering you 300, 000. That's a bad deal. Like the ev is 500. But it doesn't really work like that in real life, right? 

07:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
sometimes yeah, she doesn't bet the stealers live like you don't need to cash out. There's ways you can still make money. Maybe there's no more money in the account. Maybe she doesn't want to deposit more money in the account, yeah. So yes, there's ways to not cash out while doing something smarter, like just hedging off or or doing something. But again, I I don't, um, yeah, I don't know. Crack went looking barking up a tree where he probably just should have stayed on his side of the pro. 

07:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Better road it comes across. Here's the problem with this interaction right, it comes across like he's trying to bury her and and no one is ever going to be receptive to this type of feedback. I've learned this through the many years I've been on twitter you come in guns blazing on someone you're, you're expect, like there's going to be violence in return. That's just the way it works. This could have been like a not a quote tweet, but a message to get even a private dm that says hey, like, appreciate your content, like what you're doing, you know, just so you know, probably not beneficial to click cash out here and he probably would not have gotten this type of interaction. So there's just a way to go about it, and I I'm not the person that should be lecturing on this, because I choose violence Lots of time. Kirk, you choose violence. That's who we are by nature. 

08:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Maybe he chose it though. Maybe he was expecting to get this reaction and that's what he kind of wanted possible, but yeah and obviously I'm biased in terms of when I think I choose violence. 

08:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think I'm right verse this, I think, is obviously wrong most of time, I think you. 

08:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Well, he's right but, he just he went too far with the way he said it. The tweet was just so stupid? 

08:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Like it's just such a small like does she sell? 

08:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
pics. No no, she's like some influencer. 

08:53 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, it's a. 

08:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
FanDuel parlay. She's a FanDuel influencer. Who cares? 

08:57 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is the most like we've said, as he deserved. 

09:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
She put him in a body bag, as we'll keep going, yeah I thought, plus ev analytics, who actually is featuring a lot in the show today, never thought I would said that, said that he said that no it the no, it's not okay to cash out because that's minus ev people and the yes it's okay to cash out because it's your money and your choice. People are talking past each other. They're both right because they're based on very deaf, different definitions of what it's okay. Of course means I absolutely. This was this is the the answer, like he's right we have different things. 

09:34
This is a recreational betting community. They don't give a shit. They're not in there to maximize every dollar of every bet. They're betting for fun. Small amounts, totally fine. And then cracks on the other end of the spectrum where it's like he's thinking of everything from an ev point of view. So sorry you go. 

09:52 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, I was just referring to this slide here. Uh, this no real cappers tweet, I wouldn't. I mean I wouldn't go so far to call bill a cosplay sharp, I would. Okay, that's I don't, I, that's not me, but other than that I kind of like. 

10:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That guy sums up everything I said in my first statement, I think pretty much well, I think this is why and, if we can go back one more, why this was actually such a bad look for crack. Because he's like dunking on this influencer for giving bad advice when he's selling picks for $500 a month that are almost certainly either not winning or not worth $500 a month. So for him to go out on his high horse and say, oh, where the body's buried, like come on and now, and he's selling $500 picks a month, like I just I completely agree with no real cappers. I agree with gabby. Like I just think it was a ridiculous tweet yeah, I mean it created some entertainment. 

10:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'll tell you that. Uh, I listen. I don't know. Generally speaking, I'm pretty, um, I approach pick selling with a pessimistic point. I I assume in most cases that if you're selling picks, it's, it's not worthwhile. I don't know. I've never evaluated the crack win service or anything like that. I know he's moving for some good bettors. Are the plays coming out before the market moves? Are they out there? I have no idea. So she got very defensive. She went the scammer route. Obviously that was like triggering to someone who's been in the space for a long time and has accomplished a lot in the betting space. Because they're like who the fuck are you? You're an influencer, you just learn it's. 

11:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
These are different subsections of twitter that are at at like I also different goals and I also disagree with the sentiment there that she is not allowed to cash out or she is not allowed to do something. That's minus EV because she's in a partnership with a sports book. I just don't agree with that. Now, in a few minutes or at the end of the show, because I think we're going to give her today, I will obliterate the books. But I also don't think that every influencer needs to be held to some pro standard. I just I absolutely don't. I think the books have it good, but I think that's not fair. I don't think that makes any sense that some like tick tock person who's into recreational betting on big events or the NFL needs to be handing out plus ev advice. Like, as long as the advice isn't like negative 30 I don't want to say like, like negative, like 15 percent, like there's a, there's a bad advice scale. 

12:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, it's like the flack-o-meter, you know where, like if you're telling someone to take a cash out. Generally speaking speaking, it's going to be bad advice. It's not super harmful, they're costing themselves a minus EV. 

12:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They're still winning 3 or 4X, if you're telling someone to Martingale you know like we're on like a different level. 

12:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
These are really challenging conversations, right? Because clearly, like I, just this kind of stuff bothers me mostly because of my past. Like I lost so much money betting when I was younger kind of stuff bothers me mostly because of my past. Like I lost so much money betting when I was younger and I picked up on stuff in the space and I absorbed it, thinking that this is good stuff. I don't know, and I don't mean this like in a derogatory way towards gab goody or whatever. I don't think people are following her for actual betting advice. 

13:20
Yeah, that's kind of it's like more community and like, let a bed together. 

13:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Type of if someone opens a FanDuel account because of Gab and then they find themselves like two years later in a shit situation and it all started because they opened the FanDuel account because of Gab, like okay, I guess in some macro sense we can link, we can link the um origin story, yeah to that. But I do believe it is what you're like what you said. 

13:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think the key difference, like what you're saying of, can a person who's on or represented by fan will give out bad advice? Obviously, because that's in fan's best interest, right, but I think it's all about how you come across. So, yeah, for sure. Going back to last week's episode, right to me, matt Moore, tying it back to Matt Moore, an action network, yeah, saying okay, see, under 224, good to 216.5, coming across like that's winning advice. That is super damaging. But, gab Goody, I don't think many people reading it are like, oh, this is a sharp who's going to win me money. Of course it's much more of a community thing. Obviously it's in the book's best interest. Of course she can give out bad advice, it's. The problem is when the advice appears like it's from someone who is coming across as an expert who's totally not an expert. 

14:40 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yes, and I know we got to move on, but I really sometimes can't stand how pros look their nose down at recreational bettors like they get so offended that someone is excited that there is some like mahomes over 10 passing yards free 50 dollar coupon on a site. They get so like offended. But the moment that there's anything that's like eight cents of value to them, they literally act like independent corner store owners. Yeah, who are robbed. Do you know? Sometimes we've all got corner stores, convenience stores, I don't know what you call them in your neck local 7-eleven local, a local 7-eleven, not run by like a conglomerate, like a family run. 

15:25
But then sometimes there's a huge sale at a big grocery store or like a Target or a Walmart. Like Gatorades are so cheap they're dirt cheap that this family who runs the corner store now goes to the big box store and loads the cart up filled with every Gatorade. They see the markup they can make. It's incredible. And I'm just there, I just want like a six pack of purple G2s. Like can I just get my six pack of purple G? I just want one. Like you've got three carts full and they like look at you like you're in their way, yeah, or you're like annoying them, or like they're trying to run a business here, yeah, yeah, and I don't know if that analogy made sense to anybody, but it like rings like it, like that is the pro better and I get it. You're running your business, this is your business. Those margins are your way of life, they're how you send your kids to, how you see the world, I, I, I'm like, I mean I'm just, there, I just want one six pack that's on sale for $4. 

16:26
That's all I want, that's all I want. 

16:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I would say probably five or six years ago I was very much like I could see myself tweeting something that crack tweeted here because it used to really bother me a lot. Now I'm more fixated on the storytellers, right, the people who will try to convince other people that they're winning, bettors or whatever like that to me is damaging, that's harmful. This type of instance. Listen, I I think generally I like to put out good educational advice on cash out, but people bet for different reasons. If you're betting for fun whatever I mean use the cash out if it's going to give you peace of mind, if you're gonna feel better when you're betting At a different level where the money means something to you. 

17:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Then you're gonna have different reasons some people look at betting the same way as like we're going to the bar, like I'm going to the bar tonight. Yes, drop in 80 bucks. Yeah, I'm not expecting to come home with 160. Yeah, absolutely no. It's like if I do happen to come home with 160, that's freaking awesome, yep, but I'm going tonight to drop an 80 chip. Yep, agreed, and that doesn't need. Yeah, that's yeah. So what's okay? I thought that was perfect. 

17:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What's okay is everyone's different version of it yeah, by the way, if we could just rewind to the first page there, jacob, I saw one comment from sprats sprats better which was like what is worse normalizing being morbidly obese, actual health risk and drag on public health system or small minus ev cash outs for entertainment? And I swear to you, I read this like 12 times over and I'm like I don't. I don't know that this is even like a. There were some real interesting takes in the comments of this. I'm like what is happening on the internet? Now, that was not necessary. 

18:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's a low blow Cause I don't think bill is. 

18:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't think he's obese. Okay, he's on the bigger side, for sure. 

18:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, but I don't think he's promoting? 

18:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, is he normalizing? Is he telling people to go out and and like get every buffet deal in town and stuff like, oh, like what the hell are we talking about? 

18:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I would, if anything, say like grp is promoting yeah, it's more on the bone yeah, off hand, off the bone, always promoting, always making people hungry. Um, yeah, that just seemed like a low blow, unnecessary, but I get it in the context of like if I was out here preaching about something. 

18:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

18:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And then someone like not from gambling Twitter, who's like familiar with me, was like you're just some like losing better drug addict. Like you're not allowed to be giving advice on anything. Like you're not even allowed to give me advice on how to tie my children's shoes Right, because you're just an overweight losing bedding drugging or whatever yeah, yeah like what right do you have to tell me how to do anything in life? 

19:10
yeah, I know so. I think that was maybe like what he was going at, but he used it as an opportunity, clearly, take a shot to take a shot and I'll close. I don't know. Like I said, I find because it almost seems like they're an endangered species now is the group of people who, like from the olden days, who bet before the internet, yeah, who are now not like. They obviously know how to use the internet, but they're still getting in some ways out of their depth a bit out of their depths a bit when on the internet. 

19:39
On the internet because they're dealing with children of the internet. Um yeah, and I enjoyed your circles off of crack, so we'll promote that well he's got. 

19:48 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's a great storyteller. I I love, I love listening to it. I mean, the thing with crack is like um, it's funny because he used to run for billy walters back in the day, as did alan boston. I found a lot of similarities in the interviews I did with them where I would ask them a question and like they're they're going down memory lane, like they're reliving. I thought it was a really I enjoyed sitting there and listening to them. I'm not going to lie to people out there. You interview people and you're doing long form interviews. There's some interviews you do where you sit down and you're like, wow, this is really like not interesting. How do I get this to be interesting? Sometimes's like based off of the guest. You're interviewing the Bill one. I I was very interested and he was giving me 20 minute long answers and I was like this is amazing, like I really really enjoyed that, but I mean kind of irrelevant to it, but I thought he was. He's a really good storyteller. I enjoy listening to crack. 

20:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think that's fair. I think the question is how much of what he says is interesting from 20 years ago versus how much advice would you take from him now, which I think I would love to hear stories from 30 years ago, but would I take advice from him? 

20:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
probably not yeah, and also like we have a lot of similarities and in, uh, the fact that we're married with no kids, the way that we started betting, how we got. There's a lot overlap which maybe just resonated a lot more with me from that particular interview. You can check it out on the Circles Off channel here Our interview with crack man Bill Krackenberger Surviving Circa. Circa Sports has the Circa Survivor $14 million prize pool and last week or on Thanksgiving, not not thanksgiving last week, yeah sunday commanders cowboys it's week 12 right yeah, I'm so lost when it comes to this season's all 

21:33
one big blur to me. Regardless, story doesn't change. They're recording someone who's following along with his survivor pick in real time. At this point, so many people been eliminated that each individual entry in the pool is worth about 144 000 us dollars at this point. So it's commanders, cowboys. There's a late touchdown a pure fluke. Terry mclaurin goes to the house. This guy's going nuts, but he's like wait, we got the extra point. Everyone's celebrating. There's like one minute gap in between. Of course, the commanders missed the extra point. He drops to his knees. I can say I was. I didn't drop to my knees, but I kind of had the same feeling watching it. 

22:19 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It was hard watching and you also knew. You knew the ending. 

22:22
Yeah, with that, like you hadn't watched it yet, but you knew it was the extra point and this guy I don't know what fan he's, a what real life team he's a fan of, but I know it's. It's a tortured team because only us tortured fans. Like the moment we score any touchdowns, I think we're gonna miss the extra. Like missing the extra point is our immediate thought. Because we're tortured fans, something's got to go wrong. Yeah, like you're always expecting the other shoe to drop, so I'm sure he's like a lifelong Chargers, browns, bills, lions, yeah, insert whatever. 

22:57
Maple Leafs Sure Insert whatever Team I will say Do you get free food? Like when they're going to film you? Like this is Derek, like getting you drunk old. If you're at Circa at this point still alive in the contest, and they're going to put you on camera, which I agree with and we're going to get into, but like, are you getting anything out? 

23:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
of it. I don't know, I would think so. 

23:20
After this they had a lot of food there. They had some food. I will say, listen, I circa doesn't pay me or anything, or or whatever. I think the hospitality at circa is great. The best jeff benson is is an amazing like sports manager. He is so good. Anytime, not even when I'm there, I'll tell benson like hey, my sister's in town, she's never been to circa before. It's like no problem table here, no spending limit, like I don't even want him to do that. He goes above and beyond to do that stuff. They're really good there they are. So I would imagine there's some sort of like food and and beverages and stuff like that for him taking part in the video. 

23:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Well, after this video, I hope yeah, I would have bought him some drinks you know the dropping to the knees. 

23:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's like a classic rob pizzola I sometimes I watch for like the witching hour on red zone in my basement by myself and I'm like standing up and a play goes against me and I just like fall to my knees holding my. It's like the most dramatic. No, no, no, only like during the end games, when there's like three or four things happening at once. 

24:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
We gotta do uh. One day we gotta do a red zone, watch along yeah, just to capture all the emotions at the same time? Yeah, jeff. 

24:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Jeff was in here for the chargers ravens monday night football game. Jeff's a huge chargers fan. You pretty much held it together. There was a few times where I thought like this is going to go off the rails a little bit, but you held it together. 

24:37
I told you it'd be all right the highs were high, but I wouldn't let the lows get too low anyways, this particular, this particular instance here we have a wide debate now on whether or not these types of survivor pools are healthy Plus EV analytic, second time in the show. That Circus Sports video is why I'm not interested in Survivor, even if it's plus EV and there's no way to know for sure. A devastating loss like this is so much more likely than a win. At least with a lotto ticket, it's one day. You lose and move on. Who needs this heartbreak next? Slide jacob as well. We had ben carry um. Is the sweat of the contest worth it? Not to sound dramatic, but this is the type of beat that doesn't go away for months. Uh, bad bets for free. Bad bets for free. 

25:19
Great handle, by the way I felt legitimately depressed for a month after I fell at a circus sports survivor contest with the cowboys to the raiders on thanksgiving four years ago. Calvin ridley 73 big fan of this guy I was knocked out of a survivor pool on sunday that was down to heads up and would have been year-changing dollars for me was upset for like 30 minutes. Then reminded myself I've run absurdly hot even beyond just bets. Can't imagine betting seriously with a different outlook. Uh digs, um. Gatekeeper of gambling. Twitter business idea a survivor contest where you enter for 1k and instead of getting a hat you just get a 14 million dollar check right away go ahead. 

25:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean I. There were so many more. 

26:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There were so many more and I was shocked you got into it with a peanut, I got into it with a few people. 

26:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
My empathy on the internet's been challenged a couple times. Yeah, in the last couple weeks I I came to your defense if you saw. 

26:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But yeah, no, people were saying like jeff's not empathetic. 

26:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I just don't understand. Like buddy said uh, I mean four years ago I feel bad. If you put a camera on anyone after they lost in in circa, I would have empathy for that person. My point is that guy, you just throw him on the pile yeah he's just on the pile like the rest of us. 

26:38
It's not even thanksgiving. It's 100 people, it's 144k. He has only one right to be upset and that is if he entered into genuine negotiation to sell. Unless he entered into a true negotiation to sell, he didn't even make it past thanksgiving. You're no different than anyone who lost in the last fucking month. I I am sorry if you had a camera on my friends when the fucking Patriots won week one versus the Bengals. 

27:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Jeff, I lost a week final week of the season. This was before there was the 18th week, so week 17,. I lost a survivor pool that was nine people left. It was a Joe Flacco. It was a Ravens-Bengalsals game and I just never forget flacco completely went off in that final week of the season. It sucks you, you get on with life and you know what you're getting into with a survivor. 

27:36 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I know kirk wants to pop off on here and he'll have his turn to go at me, but the pedestal of empathy I just found you're allowed to feel bad. Yeah, I feel bad for everyone, but it's more like the people are like no, I don't know if I even like survival. 

27:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Okay, yeah, you're right, okay, that is that's ridiculous. 

27:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You're right and I'll say this kirk, you'll go after me. The camaraderie I get out of survivor, I'd pay more, I'd pay more and I'm already out a survivor I'd pay more, I'd pay more and I'm already out. Okay, it is. It is so the the the time that me and my good buddies spend in like a group chat or on the phone or on a conference call, walking our dogs after our kids are to bed. You can't put a price on it. You can't put a price on it. There's no beat, like it's all part of it. The beats are part of it. It's a roller coaster. So the pedestal of empathy for not even getting to Thanksgiving. I don't understand. Unless he, in good faith, entered in a sell negotiation Feeling bad for him. It's like when your team's down 17 points and you get a bad call go against you in the fourth quarter and then you're like, oh, we would have won the game. Fuck that, sorry. I feel bad for everyone. So don't make it like I don't have empathy. I feel bad for everyone. 

28:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah. So I'm 50% with you and 50% totally disagree. Like the idea of, like it's equivalent to losing in week one, okay. 

29:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Week seven disagree. Like the idea of ever, like it's equivalent to losing in week one, okay week seven, eight, nine, ten, ten, eleven. 

29:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
His entry was was worth 140k. Did he unbelievably bad beat and it was pretty late like it was actually an unbelievably lucky, it was true. 

29:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So like what are we talking about? 

29:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
they missed the extra point like I get watching this video and being like that is terrible, yes, but so that's why I disagree with you, I think, I think like it's hard to watch. 

29:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I have a hard time watching Homer Simpson fall down the Springfield Gorge. Like that is hard for me to watch. Okay, so it's hard to watch. 

29:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I feel, genuinely bad for this guy and I think there's a pretty unique thing that we get to watch it. It was so late. I unique thing that we get to watch it it was so late. I know it's not that late, but it was still worth 140 grand. It was an extra point. I think those takes are fair, like I saw you got into it with peanut and I agreed with him there. But the takes on is survivor worth it? Like, have these people ever gambled in their entire lives? What are we talking? Okay? 

30:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
if you don't think survivor is worth it if you have friends and you can afford. If you don't think Survivor is worth it if you have friends and you can afford it because I don't want anyone to enter a contest that will make them truly uncomfortable about the entrance fee I am telling you it is the highest level camaraderie you and your friends can have. I know you're probably too plussy-vy to get into it with not serious Well. 

30:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I approach it not serious math problem. 

30:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm projecting ships and stuff like that, yeah, and we're just like in it for the, for the roller coaster, the shit. You know what it's like. It's literally like waiting in a line at the mall over the holidays the shared experience. Like the good and the bad, there is a shared experience. The contest is beautiful. I'm sure next year Benson and the actually Stevens and the team will get it to 19 or 20. 

30:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, it's going to get up there and then these are going to just be exaggerated more. But guess what? Like, if you're not going to be able to handle a loss in Survivor, if you're down to like 10 people left at some point, your equity is going to be over a million. Like down to like 10 people left at some point, your equity is going to be over a million. 

31:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
like you can't play these, or you, you hedge, like you hedge. There's a point, yeah, I. I just think the level of empathy was more like we were like a month and a half out. So I'm worried how people are gonna act on the internet when someone actually near the finish line. 

31:18 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's not apples to apples, though, because you're thinking. I know what you're thinking, you're thinking in terms of time frame, but this year has been such an abnormality it's still big, but we're not because of so many big favorites, losing earlier on in the year. That it you like, you feel like you're close. 

31:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, you're right. You are right. It's not like the standard amount of teams left, yes, for the pre-thanksgiving, but it was still, in my opinion, enough teams where, like you really cannot think, like you're really not anywhere until you've survived thanksgiving and how that contest is set up if we go so that's my thought the pre-thanksgiving. 

31:59
You're really no different than the dudes that week one. I agree that's me making an argument for hyperbole. I'm just saying you look at the faces of my buddies sitting on the stoop outside for coming up for air after they got eliminated, or me when I freaking picked the Browns to beat the Giants in like week four and just trusted Deshaun Watson, and you come up for air after it. If you had a camera on me like that is a I don't know if there's a thing circa should make a hashtag. Steven should give up prizes like you want to see the faces of everyone. Yeah, like when they've been eliminated. That should be maybe a hashtag thing. They try to circulate next year and someone gets picked for a prize because the genuine you won't get genuine stuff is the problem. 

32:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You get the people who smash their TVs and put on a show. 

32:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
If you're around anybody getting eliminated in that contest, feel fucking bad for them. 

32:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, of course you always do. It's uncomfortable when you're with your buddies and they're like my survivor pick is going down and it's awkward. 

33:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I do agree that there's enough people left that that guy will look back on it in a year with fondness, not yeah that is okay, that is over right, like he's not at the point where he's thinking they just got stolen from him again and you're like in a week or two weeks what your team is worth I'm sorry, like I'm gonna I mean, I'm gonna say this aloud here I'm gonna, like I've I legitimately lost respect for people who are like we have to think about survivor pool squad I've legitimately lost respect it's the worst example of like, at least with a lotto ticket. 

33:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's what if you you buy? Buy a lotto ticket where you need six numbers, right, you get five out of six. Do you think people are not experiencing these same types of lows when you barely make, I know, plus EV? We've done betting together before. We've had SGPs that pay like 150 to one that lose in the final minute of the game. We move on. 

34:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That is my point. It sucks. Next day we move on. Yeah, exactly on. That sucks, you know, next day we move on. Yeah, exactly, okay. That's also something that I was thinking while I was getting into it with people. Um, we've all sort of been there where a buddy is about to lose a parlay that, like I'm not saying it's 14 million dollars, I'm not even saying it's a hundred thousand, but it could be like 28 000,000, and for that person that money would change so much of their next year the trajectory that that amount of money changes and it goes down like that video. Anyone that bet, that has friends that bet that get together for tentpole events or nfl sundays and bet, that is kind of something it's what betting is. 

34:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, it is betting you need to laugh gambling. 

34:52 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
For that video to hit you as hard as it hits some people. Yeah, I don't think you have enough friends who bet or lose. 

34:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I will say this, like I, I'm in agreement. I watched that video. I watched it multiple times. It says something about me, like I want to relive the agate but like I felt legitimately bad watching. You feel for that like because I've been in that moment before, I know what it's like. But the whole like conversation around, like all these big prize pools, like what are we doing? Should we even be having these going on? 

35:19 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
like we're bordering on ridiculous I agree, yeah, I mean, I'm mean, I'm not like he lost $1,000, really Okay he did not. 

35:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
$1,000 was the entry. 

35:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's what he lost. Okay, I get it, but now it's like you know, we had an old co-worker who would come into work and tell you he lost the amount that the parlay would have paid. 

35:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, Not the rate $17,000. Last night it's like, well, no, you didn't, you lost 50. 

35:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You put a million games in that parlay. I was watching football on the couch yesterday. One of my buddies turned to me and said the Jets cost me $17,000 on that loss. I said really. He said, well, it would have made me 6 of 6 in the 1 o'clock slates, but I still have five bets left. They didn't cost you 17 grand, not even close. 

36:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh man, it's too much. It's too much. Well, we move on Speaking of too much. In my personal opinion, Adam Schefter has become a little bit too much for me lately. These were a couple that came through from the. I mean, so many people have Schefter notifications on now you have to for the NFL. James Conner will turn 30 in May, but he has not slowed down any and his value to Arizona has been clearly demonstrated. Arizona's 5-1 in games when Conner has reached 100 scrimmage yards and 1-4 in games when he has not. These always get me. Obviously, you're going to have more yardage when you're winning games for a running back, but the next tweet was the one that really, really got me. 

36:45
Saints interim head coach Darren Rietze has specialized on special teams and his work has continued. During Rietze's first two games as the Saints interim head coach, opposing kickers Young-Wei Koo and Dustin Hopkins were a combined one for six on field goal attempts. The only made field goal the past two weeks against the Saints was a 27-yarder from Koo in Week 10, but the Saints have helped with field goal misses from 51 yards, 27 yards, 53 yards, 35 yards and 46 yards, and I long for the days when especially national writers just reported on the news. Give me the stuff that matters here. I don't know what's happened to the Schefter account recently, Jeff, but it's getting out of hand right now. I have to think so many of these tweets now are some sort of relationship that he's built with an agent, with a member of the team, specifically to get Fed news in the future, and it's embarrassing, frankly, it's embarrassing. 

37:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
A hundred percent and this is like the WODG stuff all over again. Like all these national guys are like this, they all the agents have realized that they can feed them information with the necessity that they put it in. They are covering for their guys and make their guys be in a good light and it's become a total joke. Like Schefter, this is a joke of a tweet. The Connor tweet's a joke of a tweet. All these national guys do it now and it's horrible. 

38:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
This one looks like it was written by AI. Honestly, that's what I thought people were angry about when I first read it. It looks like ai and it looks like somebody paid him to post it how could this possibly be sent out? 

38:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
how? Many adam schefter from schefter's account. How could he possibly be crediting the, the special teams coach turned head coach for the other team, missing five of six kicks? Like you have to have brain damage to actually believe that the special teams coordinator had anything to do with any of these these misses so, uh, yeah, I was taken aback by this tweet. 

39:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It actually caused me to double up on the Rams which, I quote, tweeted this tweet with, so I thank. 

39:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Schefter for it. Sorry you doubled up on the Rams because of this tweet, yeah that's how I roll, like out of spite, yeah, like. 

39:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
this tweet is so dumb. This coach is so shit. This team got outgained by Atlanta by 100 yards and lost. Then they railroaded the Browns. The following week it was 14 all in the fourth quarter of that game, so I was already in on the Rams and I said now I'm in even more. 

39:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's how I roll, so you're thankful to Schefter for this tweet. 

39:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But the saddest thing is here is Schefter is so big. There was a time where beat reporters around the league or other national media would have like gone at adam for this. I know like this tweet is so dumb it doesn't make sense, do it now well, now you gotta kiss the ray. 

39:57
I mean, this is shepter. Shepter is very powerful, like we make the jokes. I make the jokes about the blue sky. Well, I mean, if Schefter went to blue sky, that would probably change the male demo on that thing more than anyone Like. If him and well, or I guess it's Shams now. Like that is almost a demarcation point. Yeah, and he almost hoped, like Disney and how they go about it. 

40:23
Don't mention that too loud yeah we don't want them to know that too loud, so don't tweet this out. Um, but schaefter's been guilty. There was an ugly dalvin cook's tweets a few years ago where he exonerated him from an ugly situation but that was an agent thing. Wayne haskins, the dwayne haskins the failed prospect on his death tweet. Yeah like. 

40:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's insane. 

40:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
If he survived that, he can survive anything at this point, but um, yeah, I don't know, it doesn't make sense. It does seem like it was, it does seem like it was a surrogate note and he just copy and pasted the whole thing yeah, letting newsbreakers become the most powerful people in sports media was a horrible, horrible mistake well they have so much power like. The one place where they have more power than any, I would believe it is in coaching, hiring like who's? 

41:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
hot the who's not? 

41:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
yeah which assistants are we gonna put a parachute under, like the weight that actually the national media holds in deciding which? I mean they're obvious ones like a Ben John, like your eyeballs can tell you, but the most football fans like they're not breaking down film. Yeah, and it's really comes down to who the the national media wants to put Aaron as a this up and coming great, soon to be head coach. Yep. 

41:42 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Totally agree. Agreed, uh onto the uh. Uh, let's put on our tin foil hats for the next conversation we're gonna have here. Uh, unabated, um. Solid product in the betting space went down on the day before thanksgiving this week, on wednesday. There was 28 of 30 nba teams playing that day very busy day. Sight was down. Kirk tweets a picture of the unabated Discord where they say we apologize for the frustration you all feel on one of the busiest sports days of the year. Clearly our attackers picked this day for that reason. Kirk's tweet I know I'm too online, but you can't convince me. Unabated doesn't think Spanky was the source of this hack. Spanky was not a fan. He says Kirk, you're a jerk for insinuating this. Called you a jerk. Okay, you got to walk me through the. 

42:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I just read this in the Discord as not like you went full conspiracy theory here well, I kind of thought everyone would interpret it that way, but again, I did say I'm too online. The one thing is Spanky, and there are very few people on gambling Twitter who I actually don't want to not like me Spanky is kind of one of them. 

43:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He said he'd marry you. I liked it a lot more when. 

43:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Spanky liked me than not because whatever. Yeah, but yeah, I will say the evidence not great for spanky. Do I actually think they did this? 

43:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
probably when you say the evidence, you're talking, you're connecting, they had a 90 sale. 

43:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This at this time yeah, for anyone who canceled an odd screen subscription and proved that for spank odds. And as we've talked about on this show before, we know that these two bodies are not very happy with each other. 

43:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They don't seem to be seeing. 

43:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Jack has already said multiple things, insinuating he's pissed at Spanky. And then also and this is really where I tied it together was just clearly our attackers picked this day for that reason. I'm not saying insinuating, spanky did this, but to me that sentence clearly reads as this was from someone who was very incentivized for us to have a bad day on a very important day, and you can count on your hands how many people would want that for Unabated to have a bad day on a very important day, and you can count on your hands how many people would want that for unabated to have that bad day? And it's not very many. So that's what I thought. I think to this day. I still think unabated thinks that Is it true or not? Probably not true, but I think unabated. 

44:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You're not insinuating it. You think that unabated would insinuate it. I think unabated is insinuating. 

44:23 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You can't go to the attorney general's office and say, here I have this case and it's all built off of like reading tea leaves, which is what you have done in this sentence. 

44:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm not saying I would win in court. I find that that sentence. 

44:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Clearly our attackers picked this day for that reason is like very innocuous. 

44:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Just like a sentence Like we have a busy day today. Obviously somebody knew that. I don't think who the fuck, in all seriousness, and I don't know anything about this stuff, I'll never. I don't care. You know how much I bet. Yeah, I'm not a small bettor. Yeah, but I'm not a pro bettor. Yeah, I don't give a fuck about your seven cents. Okay, I just don't. Yeah, and if that saves me more in the end, whatever, yeah, and I'm blessed that I could say that most I just it's my what's okay. Like Evie said, what's okay for some. They've got their own barometer of what's okay. Yes, but you cannot like. 

45:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They offered a 90 discount to show me that you left these guys to left. Left. How many are there, spank? How many are there? There's three, I'm not that. Don best bet stamp unabated. Yeah, listen, this is the pro rank them right. 

45:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
What like rank, that like who are? Who would a spanky consider his biggest competition? 

45:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
don best because they're the closest in terms of the actual screen. Who else probably unabated? And bet stamp run very different odd screens than what spank odds provides I'm just saying it's a very much a big competitor of spank gods. 

46:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
We cannot deny that I can't offer. 

46:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I honestly don't think. 

46:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm just saying they don't have pph on unabated. 

46:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They, they are, there's, it's, it's a very, very different product, they weren't competitors, they wouldn't have all this hatred towards each other I don't know, I I listen. 

46:18 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't want to get into the origin story of like spanky, I'm just saying I actually think it's unfair. 

46:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Spanky's too smart yes for to. He like he's a very bright guy and he's very successful, yeah, and he knows how this shit works. He is too smart a guy to play dumb to this happening off a 90 sale. Sorry, like, like, why, god forbid. Kurt insinuates that like. No, there are puzzle pieces. Yes, that actually match more than you're willing to acknowledge, even if it's not true. There are puzzle pieces weird, like to me, the 90. 

46:55
I don't know anything about this, how someone can arrive at this conclusion 90 percent thing to me is, so it's just a black friday sale 90 percent. 

47:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's to try for one month so that you can come over try the product for one month. I didn't even know it was for one month. 

47:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, it's not, it's 90 off one month practically free, yeah, but a lot of companies offer you a free first 500 bucks a month. You would get it for 50 bucks a month try for free for a month and if you like it, you get a subscription. 

47:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Literally started the day of, or maybe the day before okay, but also I'm just also just just just as a point, you can see on the screen 11 replies, I think four or five of them were. I thought the exact same thing. 

47:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So well, I wasn't the only person I'm only putting it out there that, um, I just think there are puzzle pieces and kurt is very, kirk is very online, that, like I, it's not crazy to see how this dot was connected by a very online person I I want to say spanky said he's a jerk for insinuating this. 

47:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
In my opinion, kirk's tweet doesn't insinuate anything. His comments on the show do. However, his tweet I read that I'm like he's not insinuating anything, he's just kind of saying like hey, you know, he's not and you know what? 

48:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't think he's not saying spanky d dawson and I'll say something here in defense of because you're okay, you are, you are right. I think his shot at kirk is kind of uncalled for. But if you are in that portion of the ecosystem, because we've spoken on it before, it's big. Yeah, this is the complete opposite portion of the ecosystem because, we've spoken on it before. It's big. Yeah, this is the complete opposite side of the ecosystem. As a what's I don't, I was going to make up a name, but it would have been a rude one from segment one. 

48:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Sure who makes a? 

48:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
fifth, gabby Goody. Okay, different part of the ecosystem here, like the complete opposite end of the gambling, of the gambling spectrum. Why would? I don't even remember what I was going to say. 

48:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It happens. The Kirk's tweet. I read it a million times over. 

48:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's saying that Unabated thinks it was spanking, sorry. So my part being is in this hyper niche part of the ecosystem, which is where the biggest fish are playing. No offense to these two people that don't like each other. Yeah, it is entertaining and maybe that's easy for me to say, someone who does this show. I don't even subscribe to these services. They're not even worth it for me, but I find the pissing match between them highly entertaining. Yeah, and if you're hyper online like Kirk is, and part of this part of the niche ecosystem, I think it's fair game to be a shit disturber. But that's my people think I lack. People think my empathy and morals are in the wrong place. 

49:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, you've been called out for that. I will say I did talk to Jack this week. He got they got DDoSed. It originated not in North America place. Well, you've been called out for that. Um, I will say I did talk to jack this week. He got they got ddos'd. It originated not in north america. So I'm gonna start with that. I I just I'm providing the facts now to make it very clear. I never ever would have suspected spanky of doing this and again, I think kirk's point could even was that there's a lot of coincidences that might lead unabated to believe that this is what I don't know. 

50:05
Spanky's a computer programmer. That's his like claim to fame he's like he's a another puzzle piece. I don't know what, what, uh, what programming language he's proficient in turing, maybe from when he first? 

50:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
like. Is that a difficult like? I guess it's their site security that like prevents something like that yeah, I listen, I'm not gonna pretend I'm an expert in cybersecurity attacks. 

50:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What I do know is that they were attacked. The origin story, the origination of the attack was not in North America. They turned over all the evidence that they have to authorities in the United States and authorities are investigating. 

50:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's what I know happened, and what I know is I am, even though I don't actually give a shit. I know is I am, even though I don't actually give a shit. I'm highly entertained by the um like subliminal, like low-key messaging that, like Jack or Spanky, like to throw at it, like the innuendo fighting from the top of the food chain, I find very highly entertaining. 

51:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So keep it up, boys. I will say spanky, did a q a be better, betters, um, where one of the questions was mary, fuck, kill kirk evans, joey knish or matt zahlbert, and I'm paraphrasing. But he basically said well, he's not gonna fuck anyone because he's nice, he's straight, he's not gay, so he's not. He's gonna change it to mary. 

51:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Uh, beat up so straight he couldn't even like play the game. He couldn't play the game. He's too straight for the game, too straight for the game. Okay, that's very. 

51:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Beat up and kill staunch heterosexual spanky yeah he definitely said that he was gonna kill zyle bird. He's like I can't handle that we agree, but he said I said that kirk has a. Well, we don't want to actually kill Spanky. 

51:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
In the game In the game In the game. 

51:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But Kirk has a very good head on his shoulders, is what he said Seems like a very bright guy. I would marry Kirk. 

51:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think that opinion is completely true, yeah, I really took it back. It was like a three-day span. 

51:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I also like despite what you probably even think, I think Spanky is um like a genius. 

52:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What do you mean? Despite what? I think no. Are you insinuating? I think he's an idiot. 

52:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, like, because like sometimes I'll like make fun of bet, bash or say things on the internet like actually know, like like how he built himself and how he like worked the game. Like I like full. I'm just saying I you don't need to make that clear because sometimes I take shots and that could be assumed that I don't think that he is hyper successful. Yeah and um, I almost like a pie, like give him some pioneer credit 100 yeah, so I don't I I like I'll acknowledge that. 

52:42
I don't want people to think that I'm not aware of that. 

52:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He got a whole industry to turn steam chasing, which is a very derogatory, like negative connotation term, into top-down betting, which is, like now, just viewed as like okay, this is like a. I don't understand. He changed the term yeah, basically just changed the name of it Because it was offensive to someone. Yeah, it's negative If you called someone a steam chaser, it's like you used to be putting them down. It's like, well, you don't actually originate anything, you're just a steam chaser. You wait for the line to move. You bet it in bad spots, like 10 years ago when I knew about steam chasing. That's like it would. 

53:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That would be like an insult now it's but now the exact same thing is just called top down. Yeah, it's a euphemism sounds like some of you guys are really soft, because if it's the exact same meaning, it's just a different word, but it has like a positive connotation. 

53:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Spanky's done a really great job. No good for him. 

53:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's powerful. You're pointing out how he can influence and do that. My point is it seems like it's the same thing being called. 

53:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's like janitor or custodian. They mean the same, but one sounds a little better. Sure, exactly. Or a sanitation engineer for a garbage person. 

53:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, yeah, so it's okay. 

53:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I guess, Spanky is very smart, by the way he's extremely intelligent. 

53:53
And also what I do respect about him is that he has no filter and for some people that's a bad thing and in some cases it is bad for him. It is bad for him. But I actually do respect people who are just actually willing to be upfront and honest. Even if what you, what they're gonna say, um, they know is gonna, even if it's gonna offend, honestly, I'd rather I prefer that to someone who's just like toes the line, sugarcoating, bullshitting, stuff like that I could make a political joke, but it kind of writes itself. 

54:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Got it got it. 

54:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Before we get into the second half of the show. Football's in full swing. We got it's a political joke, but it kind of writes itself. Got it. Got it Before we get into the second half of the show. Football's in full swing. We got bowl games coming up. This college playoff is turning into a real thing. Nhl, nba midseason. 

54:35
And if you're not betting at Pinnacle Sportsbook, I honestly don't know what you're doing. True Story is talking to Kirk off air about Pinnacle this morning. It's a great sports book fair limits, easy to get money in and out, low margins which listen. If you're betting recreationally, maybe not the spot for you, but there's still a lot of stuff you can do within Pinnacle. That makes a lot of sense from a props perspective as they're expanding their offering. So make sure that you are checking out Pinnacle, no matter what kind of bettor you are. They've been in business for 25 years. I've been using them for a very long time. Very reputable sportsbook in the space you must be 19 plus, not available in the US and, as always, please play responsibly. 

55:14
Faking the record Okay, ian McMillan, friend of mine. I've known Ian for a long time. We had some overlap back in the day when he was with odd shark and I used to to go out to that office every now and then, um, he just tweets what I consider to be a statement of fact there. We can get into that in a second, but the tweet is the ways chiefs have pulled out wins this year. And then he lists off a bunch of things that went their way. Uh, non-call on the chiefs versus the falcons, bucks didn't go for two blocked field goal versus broncos. Uh, nick wright, who has a very large following, picks this up and he basically paraphrases this tweet says the chiefs continue to make otherwise smart people so dumb. And then he, he basically takes every single point that ian made and expands upon it to be like well, you know, tampa bay would have had to make that two-point conversion. It's not that they just had to go for it. Or you know Likely's toenail being out of bounds in the first game of the year. That would have put the Ravens down one. They still needed to get the two-point conversion or win it in overtime. And this really, really, really blew up. 

56:21
Ian McMillan's mentions Like big time Still going blew up. Ian mcmillan's mentions like big time in north still going at like we're talking days later. Now he's got to know that's coming when he posts something like that. And that's kind of what I wanted to get into, because I've been into some personal feuds with um fan bases before, most notably new york islanders, kansas city royals, because those teams at times had seasons that, by luck measurements, were extremely lucky. And you know what? You don't ever tell a fan base which I've learned the hard way that their team is getting lucky. That is the way to get everyone up against the wall and being like what the fuck do you know? What are you talking about? These types of tweets? I actually feel bad for Ian, but it's a great learning that he's going to have right now of do not tell a fan base that they are lucky, plain and simple. 

57:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Everyone in football. I mean to take nothing away from the Chiefs and their dominance. They have the Super Bowls so they can win lucky and you can't even hold it against them, like every football observer is like kind of run this through their head. I also want to note they beat the Chargers by a touchdown. Herbert played on one foot that game. 

57:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's what you wanted to know. Well, I think that should have made his list. That's all I was saying. 

57:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I have a lot more to say, but I'll let kirk go first. 

57:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Like I think I agree. Everyone knows the chiefs are running insanely good this year. I also will say if you say any team is getting lucky, you're gonna get flamed, but especially the chiefs. You know they're the kingdom of the nfl right now yeah everyone is like chasing them. 

58:06
They have Pat Mahomes who might be go down as the greatest ever, so you're especially gonna get flamed. But I will say I do slightly agree with Nick Wright of like you can go through and like, if you look at any team, there's gonna be a lot of luck, especially when you don't mention the counterfactual of. I'm sure there have been unlucky plays for the chiefs, yeah, or exactly like they're. They still could have won a bunch of these games, but yeah, I think. 

58:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
All that being said, every football fan knows the chiefs are running insanely well this year I think ian could have like saved himself from the attack if he didn't make it like these would and he didn't imply it. But I guess to avoid it like a cheese fan is thinking like he thinks we should have lost all of those games. 

58:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, he's thinking you should have lost like two, yes of those games that I think he's just basically saying they've run good. 

58:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, that's all like instead of being seven and oh, in those games like maybe five and two, yeah, while still acknowledging their pedigree, their coach, coach, their quarterback, all of that I don't know. 

59:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I think he knows what he's doing here, Okay maybe, and that's fine. 

59:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I will also acknowledge that it doesn't. I mean the Twitter has now the Twitter. It almost feels like it is replaced like Sports Talk Radio. 

59:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah. I would agree. 

59:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This would have sort of come up on Sports Talk Radio and then Chiefs fans would have called in and it can get hashed out and I know it for real. I've been attacked by two and on Rob, and that is not made up. It is not made up Like authentic national media. Folks have acknowledged its existence, so I am not making up as like using it as a term, that it exists. It exists. I got blasted once on something I tweeted. I got blasted onto like Dolphins 2 and on Reddit, yep, they were coming at me in waves. I didn't even know where they were coming from. I only found out later from my friend who's a Dolphins fan, who said I saw your tweet on our Reddit board, yeah, so that made sense. But the Chiefs? I saw your tweet on our Reddit board, yeah, so that made sense. But the Chiefs, I'm sorry, they're fans. They've just like, they've lost their way. They are the emperors we acknowledge, like they are the kings of the mountain, the puppy who lost its way? 

01:00:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, they have. 

01:00:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They have. They just they have no. And these are some of the greatest fans in the world. When this was a tortured fan base, they were the best. It doesn't matter if the Chiefs were like a three-win team. Rob, you, even as a handicapper, knew if it was a primetime game in Arrowhead, that was a bad draw for your team, even if you were the way better team, even if they're lowest points. 

01:00:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Even the Elvis Gerbach I have a. 

01:00:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Derek Thomas Pro Bowl jersey that I've worn to a tailgate at Arrowhead. These people are beautiful. They'll serve you meat. They'll take off the jersey after All that. These are wonderful people, but they have lost their minds, and having Patrick Mahomes might allow you to lose your mind. Maybe if Patrick Mahomes is quarterback of my team I would lose my mind, but they have lost any. Most of them have lost touch with objective reality. They they're so blessed they do not remember Brody Croyle, like if they could just go back for a minute, yeah, to remember what they were before God delivered them this quarterback. 

01:01:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Or. God himself showed up to quarterback them. 

01:01:30 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, yeah, or God is playing quarterback, yeah, I mean Like that's all they are. 

01:01:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They've become everything they once hated, as they were getting called for offside, losing championship games. The Patriots as the Patriots dynasty was still going on Like. A Chiefs fan from that day would be disgusted as much as they're proud with their Lombardis. Would be disgusted how they act on the internet now. 

01:01:56 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They would be. But you know what Do you actually think? It's like it's every fan base, no. No, it's every fan base, no no, it's, it's every fan. 

01:02:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, no, it's not they. Even the chiefs fans sent the. The chiefs fans notified the swifties to attack our friend cam stewart. I do remember it wasn't the notifying the chiefs fans. It was the chiefs fans saying this guy said something about us. Let's use our Swifty militia and get them. They actually did. Okay, they have armies. They actually did. And they have a Swifty militia now. Different divisions, they are. 

01:02:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You're right, that's a valid point. 

01:02:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They're probably going to go win. 

01:02:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Wait until they find the comment section of this video. 

01:02:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
my friend and no result would surprise any football fan, like if they lost to a team who got hot on wildcard weekend by two touchdowns. You wouldn't be surprised if they won the Super Bowl. Yeah, you'd be like I'm still convinced they're going to win the Super Bowl. 

01:02:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They're like, oh, they got DJ Humphries is left. 

01:02:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Tackle off the street. 

01:02:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Now it's going to fix everything. Like I'm talking to myself in this way, but yeah, into myself in this way, but yeah, I mean it. I there's a lot of vitriol on the internet. I, I want to like, I've been in these situations where ian's in before, this was before. You could even mute people on twitter, like you. Just had to see the comments and eat it for days and I would be so consumed by it. 

01:03:16
You, you cannot go in on a fan. You cannot go in on a team for being lucky. Just don't do it. Nobody, sports fans do not believe in the existence of luck in sports. They don't. You know, I could argue so many times that, like this team, like the washington capitals well, don't you not believe in luck? Or you just can't quantify it? I try to strip out as much luck as possible when I'm making numbers. That's how I model games. It's like take data, try to strip out as much that we can attribute to luck and there's our true numbers on the game. The Washington Capitals is an example that rings true to me. They would lose to the Pittsburgh Penguins in the playoffs every single year. They would dominate the Penguins in those series. They were killing them the one year they finally got past and they won the Stanley Cup. They played such a shitty series against the Penguins and they won. There is so much luck in sports and sometimes it's okay to say that. 

01:04:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I could actually think there might be one fan base for as hardcore and as passionate and as deep-rooted as they are, might not be as offended to a certain term. I feel like when you acknowledge Tomlin voodoo, I think Steeler fans almost accept it. I don't think they'll come at you in this. Yeah, they look at it like I don't think they come at. They don't see that as offensive as you saying. They're lucky. 

01:04:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, it's true, it's a nice term, it's Tomlin voodoo. It's like saying top-down betting versus steam chasing. It's a nice little euphemism that makes you feel better. Good job, jacob. Way to tie it in. 

01:04:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I do love that Weather matters. Our next topic here. Steve Fezzik tweeted on Thanksgiving Day. I have personally downgraded all the content providers, making the case that the weather in at lambo is basically an overrated factor. Is everyone on dope? He did tweet this before the game. I will say this is not a past post. That was before the game. I've downgraded. I don't know who he's subtweeting here. I honestly have no idea. I think I suspect judah fort gang, who's on our forward progress channel here on the hammer there's no way it could be just one person it could 

01:05:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
be a lot of weather as it pertains the dolphins. Yeah, was a thing that was a nationally, that was like not just show that. 

01:05:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean, maybe pro that was more of a national thing and and I guess he didn't want pro bettors to ignore it. 

01:05:42 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, I I don't listen to eat. This is the beauty of sports betting if you think something matters, you get to bet your opinions. In this instance, he bet his opinion. He won. He posted a ticket saying weather matters. It is a twenty one thousand dollar bet at circa packers minus three, even money. Now you message me on the side, jeff. 

01:06:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, I messaged you because I saw after the fact he was getting like railroaded by the top of the mountain. Okay, like the the part of the ecosystem, like the very smart guys and and uh, I wasn't like deep diving it but I like my first reaction was like rob, what did fezik do? He posted all week that he not to ignore the weather. The weather was real. He posted all week he loved the packers. 

01:06:33
Uh, minus the point blue horseshoe, smoke signal the day of or the day before whatever, yeah, documented blue horseshoe like why is he being dragged for for then even posting a twenty one thousand dollar ticket? Now this, I guess, will show things like you. 

01:06:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You've just enlightened me to some things, right yeah, see, like here's the challenge I have with stuff, like he posted this, but I guess people like me. 

01:06:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He wants you to just see it in pieces so you take away the impression I have. Blue horse, you call talked about the weather, said people who are ignoring this weather. You're not as smart as me. Yeah, um, it's a flex, but who doesn't do I listen. 

01:07:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I have no problem with the flex, I I'm, I. I will do that like, even though I try not to, sometimes I find it I don't. Here's an example. But Sunday night football on the Forward Progress live watch along. I gave out Isaac Guarando anytime touchdown before the game 44 to one, he hit that. I also gave out SGPs centered around Bill's alternate spread. Again, barry Horowitz, pat myself on the back here. I want to victory lap that after the game Because you know what? 

01:07:44
There is ego when it comes to sports betting. We're running a content business. When we have big wins, I want to promote them and people are sending in tickets. They're tagging me on twitter. I'm retweeting them all. 

01:07:54
I'm glad to see people win money and I have no issues with the flex. The problem is that it actually is not that much of a flex. It's the opposite of a fly, and that's what happened here. Jeff, if we look at this in particular, digs right away points out well, that minus three ev play the minus three plus 100. Even that was a bad number. It was basically a mistake number. This is the line history that's being showed yeah, somebody fat fingered a odds move and he capitalized on a mistake so okay. 

01:08:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So now to back it up so he's bragging. So now the insult is his whole point was about the weather, but really it's just about catching 10, 15 cents yes, and on top of that, more than 10 15 yes, uh, it's minus 3.25 cents basically. So it wasn't about the weather steve, it was this quarter it was well he listen. 

01:08:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Steve is in my opinion and we could be arguing that steve is very savvy when it comes. 

01:08:56
He's very price sensitive. He's savvy when it comes to numbers. He sees a, not a line that doesn't exist anywhere else in market. It's very clear he's going to hit it, but he hit it for 21,000. And, as Diggs pointed out, the market on this game, serco, is taking 60. So most bettors now see that and they're like well, I mean, this was my initial thought. It's like you don't have your Serco account funded for 60, for more than that, you know. Spanky says only lasted for two minutes seven seconds, seven seconds. I admire the dedication. Next time fezic sports, you gotta shove the whole 60 in, says 100 correct, but it didn't have my account loaded up. Me bad, my bad I like. 

01:09:39 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
After it's explained to me, it makes perfect sense. But I could see how any pro better who doesn't have circa funded to the max. 

01:09:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's like a red flag to other pro bettors yes I would say so I I think there are a lot of points here. But what if? 

01:09:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
you just got your at your shirt taken from you on a couple previous games and you're just at that moment. I don't know, yeah I'm making an excuse yes, I listen circa is always funded to the gills by pro bettors. That's essentially like I I can't. 

01:10:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I listen, I I can't bet at circa purely because of my proximity, the circus not available in my location. There's other sports books that I I bet on and you know they're always well funded for that particular reason. It's like if, if they have the best price I can get a big bet here, I always have to have it funded for X amount. 

01:10:31 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, especially an account that doesn't limit, like that's an account that you'll just have, they have to pay that number. 

01:10:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's not like there's no void, this dude, a bad number that tickets printed or what like it's done. He's now got minus three plus one, a great great number on the game. But the other pros, especially digs, digs is a a very successful nfl better. So he's gonna come in now and he's he sees this. He's like well, you know what, bet it for a third of the limit. 

01:10:58 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Buddy, like, I'm sorry, like if you, if you're really self-owned? Yes, exactly, I think, I think it's, it's, but, like I'm a casual who's like 21 000 getting mocked for betting 21 000? Well, I think there's an I think it's both parts of it combined that makes it such a bad luck. Because he's bragging about this win on the packers but, like any person who bets with any success, would have recognized that minus three was good. So that's not a position on the Packers, that's just getting lucky and finding a nice number. 

01:11:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This is top-down betting basically, and then you even know you could sell that or something Exactly. 

01:11:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He could have taken an R position right away if he wanted to. And then, on top of that, he found a glitch line that was totally wrong, and then he didn't even bet it for the max. Like those two things together are just red flags in terms of especially he's talking his shit about how good of a bet this was and that's the line he plays, and then, of course, he does that well timmy tweets out if weather matters so much, why suggest miami plus three and a half, minus 105 to your clients at Fezzik Sport? 

01:12:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So with a screenshot, he suggested a look ahead line on Miami plus three and a half. So that one's bad, you guys. So I'm interested to. I actually don't think this is bad. 

01:12:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't think that because, as a better, you have to adapt to new informationans. Well, but it doesn't matter. Yeah, to me that's what's bad. Suggested bet strong leans, like if you have strong leans, one star, half star, like this stuff is all just mumbo jumbo. 

01:12:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, he got he got dragged for this and and and, like I will say I don't necessarily agree, because he's sending this out in advance and he's saying I like miami next week on the early or strongly, whatever he wants to call you can, you can, you can complain about the liens or whatever. But once he realizes what the weather is going to be next week, if he actually believes that weather matters, he is full well within his right to change his opinion on the game. Agreed, you could just be like sorry, I'm holding a bad bet or whatever I'm. I now change. Now whether or not you should know that it's like it's lambo field at the end of november it's probably going to be cold, like yeah, at night. 

01:13:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It just depends on how much the weather forecast changes changed for for how reasonable this bet sending out was. 

01:13:21 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
But this is a bad look, but it's far from the worst of of these slides. 

01:13:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
We've been through. 

01:13:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There's so many. I think about this a lot, when I rarely do it tweets too much, way too much. I think so too. 

01:13:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He really does and I'm allowed to tweet a lot, but I also, like I'm not simultaneously telling, portraying myself as, like, the smartest guy in the room, so I can take my L's and my L's can stack up, and they stack up quite easily because I'm wrong a lot. 

01:13:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He tweets to matter of factly is what bothers me, right? Like I think in sports betting there's a million different ways you can do things. Sometimes you arrive at the same conclusion, sometimes you arrive at different ones. But he tweets very matter of factly and speaks very matter of factly in that, like you need to be doing this. If you're not live betting these 20 college football games today, you're a dumbo, you're leaving money on the table. It's like well, guess what? Like I don't need to, I just want to enjoy my life. Like why does that make me a complete idiot? Right, if you're not doing this? That that is what the the crux of this is. But if you're gonna post screenshots on twitter in the sharp betting space, you gotta actually, like I've thought of I've had big wins on like bet 365 or draft kings or something, and I'm like I don't want to actually post this ticket because somebody is going to now call me out for the limits that I was able to bet on this account. 

01:14:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I actually hate that though. When people say like, oh, he can bet on DraftKings, like fine, if you, if you posted all your picks and they were all DraftKings forever, yeah, that's a bad sign. But when people post one DraftKings, slip and be like, oh, you can bet on DraftKings, like good, better figure out ways to bet. 

01:15:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I don't want to spend time arguing with everybody of like, hey, I bet, like an idiot on this to account for two months so that I could actually be able to bet this amount. But but it kind of ended up being a backfiring cell phone, because I I saw it at first. I'm like you know what, I didn't dig too deep into it, right, you, I? I'm usually I'm like the internet sleuth where I see stuff and I'm like, okay, I'm like you know what, congrats, you know, fezik, like the packers put a lot of money on on them and then all the facts started to come out and you're like he just digs his own holes because he's like sub tweeting people who I think he thinks are his friends, even though he might disagree with them. 

01:15:40
Well, he tweeted at hitman last week. He's like hitman wouldn't accept my bet. I offered him this and I messaged Hitman on the side. He's like well, yeah, but I already bet the game at better prices I've maxed bet. 

01:15:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I already bet the Bears at 11 and 10 and a half. Why? 

01:15:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
am I going to take a bet with Steve at 10? 

01:15:56 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And why is he calling me out on the internet? Well, I don't know. 

01:16:05 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But I he steals all his plays too. Well, not all, but yeah, he's definitely done that. 

01:16:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's not a legend, he's the one who admits that. He definitely has done it. Yes, he's definitely has done it. He says it. 

01:16:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, I'm not, that's other conference, I just a lot of like the subtweeting. There's a lot of subtweeting going on from Steve. 

01:16:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I wish he called the people out like when he's subtweeting. If he has a problem, I won't get offended. 

01:16:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
If it's me, if it's Jude, just exactly, call the person out, just call them out, see it. Because when you subtweet, you make like 15 of your friends think you're talking to them. 

01:16:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I actually don't think the weather was a big factor in that game. I honestly don't. The biggest factor in that game was Miami lost everybody on defense in the first quarter and first half of that game. They lost Cam Smith, they lost Cater Kohu, their slot corner, they lost their nose tackle, benito Jones they already went in the game without Anthony Walker, kendall Fultz. They had five starters out on defense by the end of the first quarter. They couldn't do anything. The Packers were throwing nonstop, even as they had the lead. It had nothing to do with the weather. There was a bad fumble, muffed punt. Anyways, that's just my opinion. 

01:17:06
I know you can victory lap it, though, when you say, the weather matters. 

01:17:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, it's easy to victory lap it because if you watch the dolphins in cold weather on TV, like there's also a vibes factor where you're like these guys just yeah, sure, McDaniels, like he looks like me on the sideline Out in the cold standing there. 

01:17:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's like, dude, walk around a little bit, Move, you know. But whatever I just I find this stuff interesting. Fezzik's polarizing right, so as soon as he posts something like that, you have a segment of the population who really likes him. It's like, yeah, Steve, great, great hit this and that. And then you have, like, the gatekeepers of gambling Twitter who are like I'm going to dig into this a little bit further and see what's up here. And evidently the 60K limits were what was up there and the 21 I'm a, I'm a, I'm a fan, but I would um like he. 

01:17:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Just there's such authority behind his tweets. 

01:17:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I yeah that's that would be like you know I get it uh plus ev analytics man. How did I put him into the show? 

01:18:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
this many times today. I'd'd say he's two for one. 

01:18:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Two and one. Two and one. Yeah, how many times have we had him in Three? 

01:18:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
but I'd say two wins, one loss. Okay, fair enough, I would agree he's coming out ahead today. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, he'll take the 6-6-7. But the one loss was like it was like an Ohio State loss. 

01:18:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We planted the flag at midfield on Plus EV there who is on the gam-twit efficient frontier of most followed slash, least hated? I'll say Rob Pizzola, meaning there are people out there with more followers than Rob and there are people with fewer haters than Rob, but there's nobody with both. Who else? 

01:18:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Hashtag circle back. I wish I had more time to think about this and wasn't put on the spot Cause maybe I'd have a real answer. 

01:18:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, so I live a different experience on my own Twitter. Where you see your hate, it feels like I have a lot of hate in the space. So when I saw this, I'm like this guy is completely drunk and out to lunch. But a few other people sent this to me and they're like, yeah, I would agree that it. It's probably you, rob. But gambling twitter is like we think of it. You know me and you especially kirk we're like on the sharper side and we see a lot of that stuff. I would actually argue on the sharp side you're going to disagree for sure, but I think churn off is is has a much wider ratio of love to hate than I do. 

01:19:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I completely disagree, chernoff. One has had some negative stories from his past which I won't get into because I don't know that many details about, but also there's the GRP tracking his bets that are all losing. I think you're definitely more like than Chernoff. The one that comes to my mind and it came to me in this episode so I couldn't check how many followers he had was Benson. I think everyone likes Benson. Oh well, I don't know. I don't know. 

01:19:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So here's the thing Benson and me are similar 38,000. Benson's got 38,000. 

01:20:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, Benson to me is I don't know if Benson is in the same category, but I would agree. I feel like he's universally. 

01:20:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, because we like him. We like A lot of people dislike Benson's very abrasive on the internet. Me and Benson have a lot of similarities. 

01:20:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Who doesn't like Benson? The people that he makes fun of asking for a refund because their player got injured. 

01:20:23 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's a large portion of the population. 

01:20:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't think those are the people that we're pulling Like in the family feud. We've asked 100 people in the community In general. 

01:20:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
The hate they get Chernoff is 100% anti-conflict. 

01:20:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He does not get into any beefs ever. I'll be watching shows of his where someone is roasting him in the comments. He brings it up on screen and he kind of like, yeah, he's nice. 

01:20:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But I think people don't like him Okay now I don't know he's doing. 

01:20:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Colin Coward shows he has embedded himself into media. Okay, I've actually got someone, but I think that maybe makes people like him less. 

01:21:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The question is the person I'm about to suggest. I don't know if the I enjoy this person. I I don't know if, like the, I enjoy this person. I don't know if, like the high-end capping community considers him official. But I don't mean official. But I really like Whale Capper, like I think Drew is great. 

01:21:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I don't see people coming at. 

01:21:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Drew Drew's in there Drew's probably got over. I mean, I pulled it up already. It's like 60? 53,000. 

01:21:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I've never seen a person come at him. That would probably be. I've seen people come at him. Okay, maybe Biggs has went at him before. 

01:21:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, maybe, but I don't see him engage in it. 

01:21:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I would agree Maybe. 

01:21:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I missed that and I don't know. He just lives this. I love the ambiance of whale. 

01:21:41 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I love you know what it is. 

01:21:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm looking in the of whale capper he's just sitting in these like exotic locations. He's got this low-key vibe, air is flowing, yeah, so that would be my pick, but I maybe the high-end capping community says, like he's not one of, I don't, I don't know no no I I assume he is. 

01:22:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I, I, I, I. I actually do think that in hindsight, that is the pick yeah, people, more followers and less haters. 

01:22:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, do you? 

01:22:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
rob like if we were doing polling. For sure. He. He definitely has less, more followers and less haters the only, so that's my. 

01:22:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't know how active is he I don't know if he's tweeting all that much honorable mention, does andy count? 

01:22:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
who andy molliter? 

01:22:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
he's less followers than me, though, okay I don't know, not not to put him down, but like get dunked on it yeah, your followers up. 

01:22:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I love andy I don't know great, he's hilarious, you're right. Maybe, like in my blinders, these are, I mentioned, people I like, so I don't know if they have haters. I'm not in drew's. No, I don't think, I don't. 

01:22:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think the biggest hater of whale capper is matt zalbert, and he hates everyone yeah, because they don't have it they don't know, they can't show them their, their, their records, their public records, you know okay, I don't think. 

01:22:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Uh, I have one. That's not like more followers than you, but like maybe ratio of followers to the amount of people that hate them, suma's got to be really high up with like yeah, like nobody hates that, nobody hates suma right, who hates suma? 

01:23:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
how could you hate that guy? Yeah, although he's starting to stir it up a little bit too, I think he's taking, he's picking up a lot of the bad habits, I would agree. I think you guys might think I'm nuts when I say this name, but I actually think Bookett Trent fits this better than me. Bookett Trent, like when you think about his fall, because, because, come on, yeah Well. Um, come on, yeah well. I think it just depends on what gambling toronto, portnoy is very divisive, right, like lots of people hate portnoy because stuff's come out about him and whatever. 

01:23:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So if book it trent counts, then taylor mathis counts, because the ratio of good to bad in the comments but taylor would tell you all of her followers. 

01:23:43 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So I would say if, if bucket counts, then big cat. Yeah, but like then, if we're counting, big cat, we're just kind of gearing off into a different side. 

01:23:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It depends on what you consider a gambling Twitter, but that is a form of gambling. I refer to it a lot. I fucking love. 

01:23:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Big. Cat but they're in the ecosystem. Yeah, there might not be the part in which you might engage with it, but it's not the part that you bet with yeah, but Big Cat with yeah, but big cat, he's probably the answer. Who hates big cat? I don't think big cats have. That's cheating. Yeah, exactly, that's not fair cheating. But yeah, he's university love, but why is it? 

01:24:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
cheating. That's the question that was posed here. 

01:24:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I just don't think it's the game I don't think that is the niche I think evie is referring to a niche um Even people who hate Barstool, I think like Big Cat. I agree. I think he's able. He has run so pure and as much as he's associated fully with Barstool and with Dave he's actually run so pure on his own line that I don't think it would matter. 

01:24:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
The people that are going to be on your Twitter feed. I'm not saying this at all negatively towards you. I'm saying the people that you would engage with on Twitter, like Big Cat, but there is a massive group of people that you would just completely avoid online, that don't like Barstool and anything associated with it. There's a massive pool of people there. 

01:25:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I just think, in going by the tweet or like in trying to get into I don't know, plus EV, I've missed a golf game once and trying to get into, I don't know, plus EV, I've missed a golf game once. We'll hopefully get it this summer, but I don't think he's talking about that part of the ecosystem. 

01:25:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, I agree. 

01:25:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So, I'm referring to the ecosystem that we are, that he's referring to my vote is Drew. 

01:25:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I would say I am way too abrasive and I recognize that I'm self-aware. I see stuff that bothers me. I'm going to say it and like a lot for a lot of people they enjoy that about my account. They're like don't ever stop doing that, don't, but that there's a lot of people who it rubs the wrong way. 

01:25:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'll be thinking, going after this person. 

01:25:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Why are you picking on them? Why are you doing that, like you leave them alone? So it can't be me the answer is not who's um. 

01:25:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You're anti-efficient, least Least followers, most haters Me. Probably I was going to say it's Kirk, I'm definitely up there. 

01:25:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think people used to. I think at least in the Sharp space. When you first came on the scene, people didn't really know who you were. A lot of people strongly disliked you. 

01:25:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, I think most Sharp people used to get into it with Shipper all the time. Now I would consider Shipper a friend. That's actually I was going to say honorable mention to this question. I don't know how many followers he has, but he has a show with Matthew Barry, so he's pretty big, jay Croucher. 

01:26:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Jay Croucher. I don't think has a ton of followers Because I did his show with. Whale. 

01:26:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Capper, I like Jay. I like Jay Croucher too. I'm sorry I zoned out trying to answer Jacob's question. I'm saying on the most efficient. 

01:26:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, actually, it's not me, sorry, it's Zalber. 

01:26:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
How many followers does he? 

01:26:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
have Like not many. 

01:26:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
If we're referring to also the same niche group, then yeah, it's Zalber, but maybe I'm just too blindsided. 

01:26:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Let me see how many followers he has I don't know. 

01:26:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean, I saw there's Zach White Gamble Balls on Twitter who I sat with at the Bet Bash Hall of Fame induction this year. I love that guy. He was going back and forth with Zalbert this week. I almost included it in the show but I didn't. Really I'm not ready yet to start including. 

01:27:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Zalbert on a weekly basis. I think no Zalbert in the show is a good rule. Yeah, I think it's pretty good for now. 

01:27:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I've been thinking like I'm gonna cut it. But he went back and forth with him and he's like but not, I gotta tell you this has been one of the best troll jobs of all time. Like there is no way you're a real person and you have convinced people, and every time you know somebody who's supposed to meet up with you, you like got out of it. He's like congrats on this troll job I'm thinking about his picture even looks like it's from like a photo, like a frame in like the department store yes like it looks like. 

01:27:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's that standard picture, like you might see already in the picture frame that you're buying at the store. My only concern I agree with the rule on like no zalbert in the show, despite we're talking about him now. I'm worried that by us making that claim, he's actually going to raise his game to get on the show and that would be nuclear level danger for the entire universe yeah, if he wants to raise his level of insanity you don't understand to get here. 

01:27:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
This guy is dming me now. You don't understand. He's dming me hockey bets. You don't understand, do you? Does he know who he's talking to? He's like you might want to incorporate this into your handicap, like this is why I think it's a troll. 

01:28:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
There's no way this guy is sending. 

01:28:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay, it might be safe props and being like hey, you might want to incorporate this data like the into your right. I'm like do you know if it's? 

01:28:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
a troll, then he's bang up because literally asking a guy who works for an nfl team like chirping him about a betting record you have to be a troll. 

01:28:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, he's like where's your betting record? He's a VP of analytics for the Carolina Panthers. 

01:28:36 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No human is trolling a guy who is the VP of analytics for an NFL team about. Let me see your betting slips from the last year. Like what a yeah, maybe he is. Maybe he got us. 

01:28:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's never had what positive interaction. 

01:28:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
No no, no, don't give him that credit, I'm sorry. What positive interaction has he ever? 

01:28:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
had, Like the inverse of this is 100%. There's no positive interactions Zero percent approval rate Zero yeah agreed. Zero, it's like how many people? 

01:29:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
voted for him in the 2020 primaries zero, zero percent, not even his followers. 

01:29:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Uh, we'll end it off in this. Speaking of primaries, it was a little political angle here, I guess, andrew yang? Um, we made a mistake, andrew. I don't remember what political party, uh, the forward party, I think the forward party um, he think the forward party. 

01:29:29
He says or he tweets, and this got a lot of impressions. It was coming up quite a bit on my feed this week because it was retweeted a lot. You know what's become another tax on Americans Online sports betting? He responds to his own tweet Guys, I gamble on sports on one of the apps. 

01:29:46
It's a time suck and totally changes your viewing experience, and not for the better. It's incredibly easy to imagine people betting money that they can ill afford. That's true, I think at the end there also, I think what's true of this is he has no idea what the definition of a tax is. Yes, because sports betting is voluntary. I, I know what he's getting at in the sense of like, okay, people are losing money on this. It's essentially a tax, it's voluntary. But I want to, I really wanted to pick up on like that. It's a time suck and totally changes your viewing experience, and not for the better, because that's like counterintuitive to what every better believes. Really, like, most people bet because it is changing their viewing experience for the better. Like, am I out to lunch? 

01:30:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah it's the rush, it's the rush. 

01:30:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, like I would say this tweet like is kind of generally on the right path, but just he frames it really wrong. Like I think it would be a much better comparison if he said it was kind of like cigarettes in whatever the 1970s, of like it's clearly really bad for people and it's being pushed so hard. So many advertisements. Those are probably things that should stop and I agree that typically it definitely enhances the viewing experience. But also, like I at a roulette table, I hate that. That's like a horrible experience for me. So I could see it being like for some people they're doing it out of habit and out of addiction and it's actually horrible. 

01:31:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But I do think typically, if you're doing sports betting right, it should absolutely enhance the viewing experience I actually loved your comment about the roulette table because, like, I'll play blackjack, I like it, I can go there ready to lose a few hundred bucks, whatever. But I actually really don't like the experience, even if I went there now even money money won money on football I sit at the table. I feel like I'm in a fight with the cards. I have this like internal anxiety when playing blackjack that I don't have when betting on the NFL, aside from watching my own team play, which would be its own thing. 

01:31:41
Right, my take on this is just, like, on a macro view, I have no doubt that, like, we will look back. We already know a lot of us like are disgusted with what we're seeing. We will look back at this period of time in the sports betting and be truly ashamed and disgusted with the level of advertising and promotion. Like it's. It's one of those things. Just, yeah, I think regulation is evil and, as someone who bets, I liked it better before. Yeah, and I think the commercials Don't we sound like boomers like that. 

01:32:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, I think the commercials and the select Every single week. Jeff Nadu, by the way, shout out Thank you for promoting the show For a guy that we beefed many times back in the year. He's like, but like his whole shtick of like, fuck, I hate regulation. Like I wish we could go back to the days where, like you know, like Rashad Bateman got hurt this week. Yeah, I just I don't. I think I tweet. I search Rashad Bateman on Twitter. Oh, it's probably disgusting. It's brutal dude. It's like FanDuel called it in this and that and I do know that I sound like a boomer, but there is a new breed of bettors that does really bother me. But generally speaking, in regards to Yang, here it's a time suck. Well, every form of entertainment is a time suck. 

01:33:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
We need a time suck, of course. 

01:33:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You need to be able to do stuff with that. 

01:33:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You know how many days like no offense. And I've got. I'm blessed. I got a beautiful wife and three kids. You know how many times I just want to fast forward three fucking hours yeah. 

01:33:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I get it, I completely get it, but, like, forms of entertainment are time sucks. If I watch Netflix for an hour, it's a time suck. 

01:33:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
If I go fucking bowling, guess what Yang Guess what Yang you take your daughter to Moana 2 on the weekend. It's a time suck and not a cheap one. 

01:33:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah. Well, also I would say like the time suck of sports betting. Mostly is watching the sport. Yeah of course People would do that. Anyways, I went high pitch, betting or not. 

01:33:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah on, yeah well, yeah, okay. So for this, how long is does it take andrew yang to come up with a bet, seeing as the fact that he kind of self-reports and says he uses? 

01:33:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
one app. 

01:33:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He uses one of the apps one app, which means he's not a winning sports better, he probably takes about like maybe two minutes to come up with a bet and then if you're like a normal sports better, you probably like sports. That's why you bet on sports. You're're going to be watching the game anyways. You spend an extra two minutes maybe making a bet, so it's no additional time. Suck, and I said it before, but before the show. But you said last week just because you make an overarching comment doesn't mean you lost a bet. I think in this case. 

01:34:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Adrian may have lost a bet and is upset about it. What day was the 24th? 

01:34:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
of Sunday. That's a good question. I don't know off the top of my head I don't even know what day of the week. It is today anymore when we're recording. 

01:34:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That's what my football season has been like it's a new month. It's completely Wow. 

01:34:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We can't even go back one month to look at what. What day is it today? I just I mean what day? When we're recording it's coming out December 3rd, I don't know, let me see. 

01:34:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
What I'm trying to say in this is that he's very he's reporting himself pretty clearly as like not a winning better Sunday. 

01:34:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't know if he's November 24th is Sunday. 

01:34:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's pretty funny. 

01:35:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You don't have to know that you could literally just be in line at the pizza shop and hear two blokes in front of you like saying I lost two, like talking about losing bets, like I I'm not trying to defend, I'm not saying andrew bang is a winner, better yeah I'm just saying, like, when you're out there and you interact with people or you just spend some time around like young guys, it's gonna come like to come. The conversation always goes who do you like this weekend? 

01:35:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's kind of ingrained out. Listen, it is incredibly easy to imagine people betting money that they can ill-tort because I've done that Probably 90% of people I know have done that At some point. 

01:35:43
it's sad, but it's happened. That will continue to happen. That unfortunately really bothers me. It honestly really does. But I mean, I don't really like definitely agree with your points on regulation how things have been rolled out across North America the ads everywhere. I think I'm in total agreement with you. We'll look back on that and be like can you fucking believe we used to have a commercial for this, every single, you know, 100 times a game. 

01:36:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Oh, we're gonna laugh like jamie the jamie fox parlays. 

01:36:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like we are gonna look back on this connor mcgregor a connor, connor mcdavid and wayne gretzky doing commercials like it's a joke, let's, let's call it off, but time suck. 

01:36:24
I mean you. You decide what amount of time you want to put into sports betting, for one totally changes your viewing experience, not for the better. I would strongly disagree with that. I think sports betting 100% enhances the viewing experience. I watched right to the last fucking second of Sunday Night Football Bills and 49ers purely because of betting, and I was entertained in the process in a game that was otherwise completely cooked. 

01:36:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Maybe is that the time suck Because, like now, you're watching garbage time. 

01:36:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But what I'm going to do. 

01:36:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Jacob, you know what I'm going to do. I would turn off Sunday night football and I would turn on Netflix and I would watch something else. 

01:37:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I'm just devil's advocate argument. 

01:37:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, that's a good point, but like but that that's the case. 

01:37:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
yeah, I just think this is like right idea, but from someone who just doesn't have much expertise here. 

01:37:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, I'm with you all right, we're gonna wrap it up on that. If you enjoyed this week's episode, smash that like button down below. It's your first time following us and you enjoy the content. Make sure you sub here on circles off. We do this every single week with new topics, and the topics are laid out for us by gambling twitter a reminder hashtag. Circle back if you want to get in on the conversation. Of course, we read all the comments. If you got any take on any of the topics today, drop it down in the comments below. It helps us in the youtube algorithm and I like to occasionally get in on the comments and respond as well, so make sure you leave us a comment until next time. Peace out everyone. Enjoy the week.