00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions. 

00:49
Circle Back episode 19 right here on the Circles Off channel, part of the Hammer Betting Network and proudly presented by Underdog. Thank you so much to Underdog for making the show possible over here. As you can see, no Rob for today. He couldn't handle the heat after last week's hot episode with all the beefs that are going on, so he had to step out of the kitchen and get his sous chef to fill in as host for today. I'm Jacob. I'm usually behind the glass for this one, but filling in as the host just for this week. To my left, he managed to survive the boredom of the 2025 NBAY All-Star Game to be here with us today. 

01:26
That is the ever-present Kirk Evans Across from me. Normally it's Jeff Feinberg in that seat, but he had a little bit too much partying going on after hitting some Ludwig Eberg futures. So instead we have the special surprise guest, johnny, joining us for the very first time on Circle Back. He helped build this channel with the Circles Off podcast, but here for the first time, taking my place behind the scenes is Jason Cooper, jizzy J. But guys, regardless of whether or not Rob is here joining us today, we have so much great stuff, johnny. How do you feel that's? 

01:58 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
a good intro. Man Rob's going to start taking through lessons. 

02:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I was thinking the exact same thing. 

02:05 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Oh dominated Rob and for those who don't know, I can guarantee you that was his first take. Absolutely, rob. Typically on Circle Up he'd actually average about 1.9 takes. 

02:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Usually he'll do like a few words, then maybe the third try, Then we really get into it. But Johnny Circle Back for the first time. Are you excited to be on the show? 

02:25 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I had the itch. Happy to be filling in. The big dogs are on vacation. I took a look at the board here. I think it's going to be a good show. A lot of funny ones on here today. 

02:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
There is a lot of great stuff today. Make sure you stick around for every topic so you don't miss out on any of the fun. And we'll start off with what was a lot of fun online, especially afterwards, especially if you are south of the border. That is for the four nations face-off that is going on right now. We are recording on Monday before the final group games do take place. The most recent game that we have is Canada against the US. Us wins three to one obviously more than just hockey, I guess, in some respects on the line for this game here. But there's a lot of back and forth that went on on Twitter after this one. 

03:08
Joey Knish got himself really involved online with Rob and with Moreto. Rob watching from his resort saying this is electric. It seemed like there's a good amount of Canadian and US fans there with him. Knish obviously going at him a little bit. Rob saying after, after. Well, after. Knish said you're lucky I'm not at that two-star mexican resort or we'd be dropping the gloves. Rob says 99 of canadians would drop you in one punch. The other one percent are infants. Then moreto, going into this game, said that it was oh sorry, before we get that one joy knish victory. Lap the us in their own house at their own game. What do they have left? Hashtag, hashtag, 51st state I'm about to move the headquarters of this show to Detroit, where it belongs. I will never let Rob do that. That's never going to happen, god forbid. 

03:52
Then this is the one I mentioned Moretto wanted to bet Canada before the game, saying that Soros got beat. The Finland goalie gets beat by a couple of soft wristers from distance to give the US their breakthrough against the worst team in the tournament by margin, and now they're favored to win it all. Amazing Time to bet more Canada Post-game. Knish says Boy, are you going to love the price after tonight? Then Moreno says I'll bet you right now. Canada gets Makar back and roasts you Thursday in Boston. Look, we know if Canada's in the final or not, when this comes out, the file or not when this comes out, but we don't know at the time recording. 

04:26
And then, uh, knish asked for rob to dm in the morning. Rob says dm him now you cower. But overall, uh, the four nations face off. It sparked some interest online. Nba, already mentioned, had a pretty failed all-star experiment for this year. But, uh, we'll start with you, johnny. Uh, what more versed in hockey, I would say what kind of like do events like this provide good betting opportunities? Are these things good for betting like this? 

04:46 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
for for betting actually. Yeah, yeah, surprisingly very good. Um, all-star games are typically low liquidity, but it's just more of, like you know, you might fire a little a couple bucks on, like a you know someone to win the accuracy challenge or fastest skate or something like that, but these actually have real betting opportunities because of the limits typically. The biggest opportunity I think for this year is you don't know how this tournament's going to be played. So it's like the first one ever International hockey. 

05:13
Best on best typically is a lot of under. So there's definitely, like you know, more 2-1 games like ironclad game style, best on best. But you don't know, like, are the refs going to be super loose, are the players going to be loose, like dude, does everyone try to not get hurt? And it's more like an all-star game, like you don't know how the turn is going to be played. Obviously, after one game you realize is how it's going to be played, but there's opportunity before that to kind of anticipate that and see what you can do in terms of correlation there for sure, and they're actually offering like pretty deep lists on these games as well. 

05:47 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Pretty much every player shots on goal. I was pretty impressed to see that. But yeah, that's actually a great point. On, like game to game correlation I feel like people don't realize how important game to game correlation is in tournaments like this. But I'll say this about the tournament I pretty much never don't cheer for my bets. Like if I have money invested, it nearly trumps everything and if I care about something I won't bet against it. This Canada-US game I have hella buck to win. Tournament MVP. I woke up in the morning. I'm like all right, I'll be cheering for the US. When that anthem went and we were fucking booing and everyone was fired up, changed my tune. I'm like no chance I'm cheering for the US got so into it. Now I'm so invested I gotta give the NHL credit. This has been a sick tournament. Yeah, and for sure, and also probably shouldn't get into a Twitter fight with Joey Kanish. That's just never a good idea for for anyone. 

06:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I think at the time it felt like Rob had a few Diet Cokes in him during this game because he went a little bit wild on Twitter. I'm sure he's watching right now. What is it about the event? What is the NHL? I gotta say one thing. 

06:56 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Media spins everything. As you know, after the Canada-US game, everyone's like oh, canada got beat up. 

07:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Not only did they lose the game, they got beat up. 

07:06 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
They got the shit kicked out of them in three fights, like every highlight pack in like, and I was in the US when actually watching this. It was like every highlight pack in the US and in Canada. You know, espn TSN was like just that one Sam Bennett versus other two fights. Canada won. It's. It's hilarious how like media could spin anything. 

07:31
Not that I even care about the feud canada us, I'm just happy to watch a good hockey game, best on best, and I was very happy that the players are actually trying in the tournament, because I was a bit scared that it was going to be more of a all-star game style. Yeah, start, now that it's actually there. It reminds me of like olympic hockey, which we haven't had for a while with, you know, the top players. So, whatever, not that I care about that, but the media literally spins everything. Most of these guys on twitter that are saying like, whatever, you didn't even watch the game. I know for a fact. You watched the game because beating somebody in international hockey 3-1 with an empty netter is not a throttling. I can assure you that Up until the last minute, with the goalie empty, canada could have tied. 

08:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's not a throttling and people are acting like it was tournament over Canada wins. Today we play them in the finals and win. Who gives a shit about the round robin? 

08:20 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
That's all that matters. 

08:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It wasn't even an elimination. Yeah, exactly, it was a great game. Us won Take your flowers. But if we win this tournament, who cares that? You won the Grand Rumble game. 

08:31 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I saw some tweets by some Americans who were even saying like oh, we still might have to play them again. I didn't realize that. 

08:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I thought it was done. 

08:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Just for anybody watching. We record this midday Monday we have the Canada game on one of our side TVs over here. 

08:44 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
It's on. Right now they're just doing the anthems for the Canada-Finland? 

08:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I don't expect. I think it was. Chris Johnson posted that there was nobody booing anthems in the Sweden-Finland game. 

08:55 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
As in like yeah. 

08:57 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
I make me know that man. Shockingly, we have volume on. 

09:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I'm sure the Finland anthem is not getting booed here, but the NBA has tried and failed over a number of years to get people to care about the All-Star Game, get fans to care and, more importantly, players to care. And I'm not as versed in hockey. So when I heard about this tournament a week before this tournament, I asked some friends like what do they do? Like the players are not going to care about this. And they said no, like players are up for this? 

09:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
What have they done to make that happen? No, but if the NBA put on a tournament like this, where the players were wearing their national jersey? Like the idea that Jokic and Luka wouldn't play hard. Like they don't give a shit about the All-Star game, they would die to play with their national jersey. If you have your country's name on your chest, you're going to play hard. 

09:42 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Well, Giannis said that it was like he said he'd play hard if it was World versus USA. But also an all-star game by design is like you know, chill out for the weekend. They made it like that a couple years ago Not a couple years ago, 10 years ago where it's like bring your kids, bring your family, take the weekend vacation. Kids will be like even for NHL, remember. I remember I was at an All-Star game once. Ovechkin's kid was there just messing around on the ice taking some shots, having a good father-son time. They're not trying to make it some sort of massive competitive event. 

10:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I think for the All-Star game and the NBA as well, the All-Star game is the end of a very long week of responsibilities for the players, media-wise, and by the time the game rolls around, they've said in the past I am spent, I want to go home, I don't want to be there for the game. But yeah, credit to the NHL for getting players up for this. But then again, for the NBA, like every year after the dunk contest, players come in and say oh, I would love to be a part of this next year, like John Morant says that every year and then never does a dunk contest. Giannis said after a drama rant, said I want to do a dunk contest. Giannis said if he does it, I'll do it. 

10:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And then two days later Giannis said I got hacked and I didn't say that, so I don't know what we'll say, but credit to the NHL, yes, but also the NHL hasn't let their players go to the Olympics. 

10:59 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
By the way, to be honest also, just because we mentioned this actually did a dunk contest. I smashed him hard. He literally sucked. He was the worst dunk contest guy ever in his rookie season. 

11:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
He was so bad and I right I bet him and it was a different, different player. 

11:08 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
He's one of the worst different player I bet yannis and I also bet yasiel puig to win the home run derby two of the worst bets in my life. 

11:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Right, I the. I remember the yasiel people. Didn't you give that out on circles off? 

11:20 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
no, no, no. I I bet this like prior, like a long time ago, puig to win the home run derby, because I thought like yo, like it's guys like good exit velocity, get everything. I was like I was trying to model it like a real thing, as opposed to an event. He literally got up there, he went up to the thing and they're like who's throwing the balls to you? And he had nobody wasn't that? 

11:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
that was on degen fund though, wasn't it? 

11:38 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
no, I uh maybe something about this. 

11:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
It wasn't, something about it was before that which was shared with. I might have told you Because I know this story, I know this story Basically what happened was he had nobody to throw him, he couldn't speak English. 

11:49 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Then they're like okay, fine, robinson Cano's dad was like there and he's like, okay, I'll throw it to him. No, warm up. They went up and he got knocked and he had zero homers. 

11:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Worst, all right, uh, I mean they've been successful. We'll see if it continues that success. I remember the nba did like the point cap one year and that worked really well, but it didn't work the next year. 

12:10 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
So uh, while we're on this, by the way, how, how good was that? Uh, was that wemby, uh hack? That's incredibly sharp and I love that, and literally you should not have been disqualified. I thought I don't know. 

12:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Apparently they showed him the rule book after and said you can't do that. 

12:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't mind him getting disqualified, but I hate how people were shitting on him. I thought it was genius. 

12:32 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
It said that in the rule book that you have to throw the balls towards the rim and you can't just take them off the rack and. Wemby's counted, but all Paul had to do was one-hand him towards the rim. 

12:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I think it's funny, it's Chris Paul for this type of thing. 

12:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
My last point about the All-Star game, though, and you've given the NHL a lot of credit for this working. How long of a break is this? Multiple weeks. 

12:55 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Where players can get injured. 

12:57 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't know. I think this for the All-Star game. Obviously it is technically a replacement, but it's a totally different tournament and thing. 

13:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
But to their credit, they took a gamble with this. They took time off from the NHL season, time off from ad revenue, which obviously Adam Silver cares a lot about, because the All-Star game was littered with ads and not much actual basketball being played. And it's worked. I'm sure the NBA will look at this and try to replicate it in some capacity. It's worked. 

13:24 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
And I'm sure the NBA will look at this and try to replicate it in some capacity. I hope so. That would be unbelievable. They made it so that some people can't even participate, which is honestly bullshit. 

13:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
For what? 

13:30 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Just like four countries, and that's it. 

13:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Oh, okay, so if you're like. 

13:34 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
there's so many good players. I'm not even talking just Russians. Yeah, I agree, there's so many other players. 

13:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
They couldn't make it perfect, but it's much better than what the NBA produced. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. We can move on, but before we do, a word from the presenting sponsor on this channel and for this show, underdog. The NBA season is heading into the homestretch and if you're not playing on Underdog Fantasy, you're missing out on one of the most exciting ways to follow the action. With Underdog's Pick'Em Contest, you can put your hoop's knowledge to the test by selecting your favorite players and predicting whether they'll go higher or lower on their stats. Points, assists, rebounds, you name it. Think a star is about to go off for a big night? Lock in your picks and see how you stack up. And the best part, new users who sign up today with code CIRCLES will get up to $1,000 in bonus cash when they make a deposit, plus a free pick to get started. This means you can play right away, with extra funds and a risk-free shot at winning. 

14:31
It's fast, easy to play and available in most states and provinces. Whether it's primetime action or a late-night West Coast battle, you can get in on the action every single night. No need to spend hours researching lineups or competing against other bettors to get your wagers in before a line moves. Just pick your players, make your selections and enjoy the ride. So don't sit on the sidelines. Sign up to Underdog Fantasy today with code CIRCLES and claim up to $1 thousand dollars in bonus cash and that free bet to get you started. Finish the nba season strong and turn your basketball knowledge into winnings, causing a big stir on gambling twitter this week. Maybe the biggest it's maybe the biggest story from the week on gambling twitter and that is the rise of amanda vance, otherwise known as amanda wins at amanda vance and she started Amanda C. 

15:17
Vance Amanda C Vance, sorry and she's had some popularity on Instagram in the past under Amanda Casey Vance and has decided to bring over her product to Twitter and there's been some pushback from gambling Twitter overall for the caliber of the product pick selling in general as normal, and she wasn't too happy about that. She tweeted Dear Twitter, if you have a problem with my prices on my picks, don't buy them. I've been selling my plays for five years and I have thousands of satisfied clients. I make a ton of money and I'm good at what I do. I'm new to Twitter and I've used Instagram mainly under the ad I said previously Go, follow me on there to keep up with things I don't post on here. I actually post a lot, as we'll find on Twitter. 

16:00
By the way, I swept the board four times last week and I cover all sports. Again, if you think $99 a week is outrageous, don't buy them. I've had these prices for five years now with reoccurring clients because they win money. I also posted about a sale where my week pass is $50 this week for a week of plays and the Super Bowl in all caps. Other handicappers are charging that for one day, but if $7 a day breaks the bank. Maybe you shouldn't be sports betting to begin with. So I did go to her website. I pulled some prices from the website. A week is $99.99. 24-hour membership is $24.99. A monthly membership is $249.99. So not cheap. So not cheap, like not cheap. 

16:40 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Definitely not cheap. This actually isn't that bad Compared to others. Well, it's $200. So, for example, for the month, if you don't bet the picks, it's $249. If you bet the picks, it's probably about $849. So the implication is that she, If you don't bet the picks, it's actually not that bad. 

16:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
The implication is she's not a winning bettor. That's the implication that's been made online. She's had some back and forth online. I think the most notable one is with Spinsflinter at SBInfluencer. Who's known as Spinsflinter that's how they want to be known online and criticizes some of the write-ups that are made for the picks overall and gets into it with her. If we go to the next slide as well, says that he asked amanda vance specifically in a back and forth where a lot of tweets were deleted by amanda vance in the end. Do you want to address the fake reviews on your website or the fact you have zero proven track record over the past five years? Uh, there's a clip from a pic from a website. I'll just go through this the pick from a website mike p posts. I've been using aw for a few months and my results been amazing. I didn't expect to win so often, but the picks are really accurate. 

17:45 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I'm definitely a satisfied customer, definitely a real satisfied paying customer I'm imagining spin flinter, uh reverse, uh image. 

17:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Search this and found a william p who might get caught in the crossfires here. It certainly looks like a fake review on the surface. When you dig in it kind of adds to that. It looks like that. What do you got? 

18:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I just want to shout out Spinfluencer. We've had a lot of these aggregator gambling Twitter accounts who post shit, and they've all been terrible until Spinfluencer. Spinfluencer, you're doing great work out there. This is some real investigative journalism here. 

18:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Shout out, william plank great work, make my job easier about investigative journalism. 

18:29 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Wait until listen. 

18:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I put in my own work today, as we will find out shortly getting. Uh, it's my one chance to host now I gotta, I gotta do something here uh, but anyways, or crosby or mcdavid. 

18:41 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Mcdavid, gino one nothing, canada. 

18:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Next slide. We see the back and forth. These tweets are deleted, but essentially I brought these up. I don't need to read them all, but essentially anytime there is pushback on amanda vance regarding her, her product and her pig selling, she kind of defers to stuff like this. She says listen, homie, if you're trying to flirt with me, you're not doing a good job. Spin flinter says despite your delusions, not everyone is trying to get in your pants, so it's just deflecting, which I don't really like, like, like. If you believe in your product, like, stand by your product, don't deflect to something like that's a crazy tweet. 

19:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I might steal that. 

19:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
When someone's sitting on, that's a good one listen to me if you're gonna put back and forth to her actually yeah, when you're roasting my take on brandon ingram I should have said listen, homie, if you're trying to flirt with me, you're not doing a good job listen, I'll. 

19:30 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I'll say this to her defense here probably 99.9 of the people who are actually talking to her are trying to flirt with her, right? So it wouldn't be that shocked to say, despite your delusions, not everyone's trying to get in your pants. It's like basically 99 out of 100 hours. So I'll give her some credit. So we will try it. Also, is anyone buying the pic? They're buying it just to talk to her. 

19:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Apparently, she claimed, thousands of people are purchasing the pics. There's no way they're betting. There's no way they're betting. 

19:59 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I read earlier If you want to buy something and give money to a girl that you think is attractive, go for it, but there's no way they're betting Well we cannot find, there's no. Go ahead Two zip, two zip Canada. 

20:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If you have been betting Amanda Vance's picks and you are watching this show, comment on Circleback Twitter, let us know. We want to hear Maybe they're winning picks, maybe they're winning picks. 

20:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Please have a profile photo that we can't reverse. Image search. 

20:30 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
Maybe we should send out the call to Amanda Vance and ask her if she wants a winning subscriber to come and join us. 

20:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Well, listen, direct them towards us, we'll see. 

20:39
We'll try to prove if she's a winner or not. If you go to our website and Rob kind of stole a thunder here because he made a tweet about this from a beach in Mexico, rob cannot stay away from the game man. He cannot take one full week off, he has to stay in. But I pulled some screenshots from the website. This is under the faqs page, easy to find on our website. It's a. One of the frequently asked questions is when do you send out picks? My picks will be sent out 5 to 6 pm eastern for night games, so about hour or two before the slate begins, and between 11 am and 12 pm for day games. That's assuming nfl 1 pm eastern time start time. So these are right, like these are in prime, primed markets so you can get big liquidity, heavy liquidity and varying liquidity, I'd say. But when asked, how much should I play each game? 

21:24 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
this is not use a unit system all plays are created equal. 

21:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I advise my clients to wager responsibly within their means. But no units and just all plays are worth the same amount. Which listen? All plays are created equal. Of course, some people like, like standard unit systems, it's easy for themselves, it's easy to stay within limits, but if you're selling picks, I feel like you should have a better understanding of that is I actually don't think I've ever seen a tout who doesn't have some sort of unit system. 

21:48 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
That's actually pretty astounding, this is actually probably better for for people to just get the plays, because then there's no like 10 unit mortal max mega, mega bomber first, and and so for for the board youtube channel which I do the host and pips does his picks. 

22:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
95 percent of picks are one unit but it's kept for more. So simplicity for for the average viewer to understand like what's a reasonable amount to bet on this. Oftentimes we know 95 is a lot. We do half unit plays, we do sometimes a bit more, but there's an understanding that like there should be an understanding for selling picks. 

22:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, we're also missing the headline. Here, All plays are created equal. It's such an unbelievable like what are the odds that every single play has the exact same value? 

22:30 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
How's that possible For hers? Yeah, it is. Yeah, exactly, they're all the same value, which is basically minus 10 cents. 

22:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Exactly, they're all the same value which is basically minus 10 cents Paying to beg. Yeah, exactly, we would argue that's a self-report. We would argue as well, betting into highly like high-limit markets, like betting NFL at 12 pm. 

22:47 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Okay, but let me just explain something. Rob made a video about how like this is bad market timing, so this is how you know that she doesn't win. 

22:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Really, that's how you knew she didn't listen. That's how you had to know what was the girl from last week's episode that rob was talking about this. This is what people were making her out yeah, this is what people were making. Ariel epstein out like oh god, why is my phone being loud? 

23:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
google maps again here. You don't know how many episodes you still want to get here. My bad, this is crazy, um, but yeah, this is what people. 

23:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is what people were making ariel epstein like. This is actually zero gambling knowledge. That's why I was defending ariel epstein. I would not defend. This is a self-report. This is genuinely like the lowest of the low of of tout. 

23:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
And then I added as well will my subscription automatically? Essentially, yes, if you have a subscription for your time frame, it will renew automatically. That's probably the standard. Some people may not like that. 

23:45 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
It might be redeemed, like you know, a little bit, a little bit scummy, but that's probably a standard in the industry one thing I want to add in here as well is I sent you guys I don't know if you guys read the article that I sent you. She has one that she like recently, like that constantly she talks about as if it would like legitimize her as a better. In there she talks about units and this exact thing. Her words are that the math is too complicated, so it's super simple, that all things are created equal, so it's like as a sports, better math is too complicated is pretty. 

24:13 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I mean I don't even I don't't like dissing especially people like this. Listen, she found a niche. She's. A lot of people would find her attractive and for that reason they're willing to pay and buy her pics and talk to her and do whatever. It's a proven business model in the likes of, you know, onlyfans and all that stuff. And you know I'm not suggesting that she's an OnlyFans model. I think that. But people pay sometimes to talk to girls. 

24:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And they pay to get the attention of girls and whatever. 

24:40 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
She's doing that, all good. I refuse to believe anyone's betting the picks. You cannot convince me anyone is betting these picks. They're paying her just to get her attention and be a part of a thing which, honestly, I don't even. It is what it is. 

24:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
She can make her money. I don't agree. They're not betting the picks. They can't possibly look and be like I got to bet these picks, but why would someone pay for this? To not bet picks versus the other services available? 

25:06 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
to them? Are people betting Taylor Mathis' picks when she's giving on the videos We've established? Probably not, probably not. 

25:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But Taylor Mathis isn't making you pay for them. Why pay for this service? This is more expensive. 

25:20 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
They're just giving her money, it's all the same. 

25:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Does this make you able to chat with her? 

25:26 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Well, I don't know. Yeah, you can. Actually, you can email her. As you're a multi-final, you can email her Listen we're saving it. 

25:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
My inner demons tell me not to say this. But for Taylor Mathis, the bets are an ancillary product. For Amanda Wins, the bets are the product. 

25:45 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
No, the product is in these case scenarios is always that the people are able to talk to the girl and they think they can get in tight with her and whatever. That's the product, because there's no way anyone's like if you're going to buy picks from somebody, then you're, at a minimum, going to be like I need to think this person wins betting. You need to think that, okay, yeah. And when you look at this girl's profile, nothing about that would give you even the slightest hint that she wins betting. 

26:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
But if you're not well-versed in betting, you maybe wouldn't understand that by reading, especially like Instagram, I have to think you would. 

26:18 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Okay, maybe you get caught by like some sort of tout who doesn't win, but he has like a couple big FanDuel screenshots or big Underdog screenshots or like a six whatever they call the parlay on Underdog a six lay. There's no way. This girl's not even posting, she's not even betting. It's not happening. There's no way people are looking at this and being like I'm going to win money off this. 

26:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You did some investigative journalism. Now we need more. We need to find some subscribers. We do need to find subscribers. 

26:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I also didn't mention this, but she said she swept. She talked about sweeps a lot. She bets in the FAQ page. She said she bets one to two plays at least per day. 

26:58
So sometimes a sweep is a one play day One and no sweep two and no sweep Sweep is a sweep, so anyways, we cannot confirm or deny she's winning better. We can make inferences based on the FAQs, but I wanted to find pick tracking, so I dug in a little bit deeper. I actually reached out to the email from the help page on the website, which I'm not going to say. Do it because I don't want to like spam, but like you can, you can ask if there's pick tracking, which is what I exactly what I did. I'll read out my exact email. I said hey there, I'm interested in purchasing. This is my own email. By the way, I didn't like use a burner. This is my own personal email. Hey there, I'm interested in purchasing a pick package, but before I make a decision on which one is right for me, I was wondering if you could let me know where I could see the tracking slash record for the picks. I just want that confirmation before making any commitments. Let me know where I can find that. Thanks, and she replied. 

27:47 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
See, so you can email her. By the way, If you buy the picks, you get to talk to her. 

27:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
And that's what she's selling. 

27:52 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
I didn't buy the picks. 

27:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
This is not pay. I did not buy anything, by the way, so you don't need to be. Listen, I'm not advocating this. 

27:59 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
But look how much you fired her up. 

28:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
She's like great to hear you're interested. You're getting an attention of the girl If you buy these. 

28:05 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
you're going to ask her other questions, Someone replied. 

28:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Hi, Jacob, Great to hear you're interested. The tracking slash record for the picks will be available tomorrow, exclusively for members. This on Thursday February 12th. So as of, according to this email, Friday February 13th Friday the 13th. Is that? Yeah, as of Friday the 13th, the daily pick section will showcase. 

28:27 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
It was Thursday, it was Friday the 14th. Sorry, friday the 14th, my apologies. 

28:31 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
So I sent this email on Thursday the 13th and then this apparently, according to this email, pick tracking was available as of friday the 14th of february. Uh, let me know if you have any questions. I'd love to have you on board, best, amanda. So my assumption is amanda did not type this email and somebody else did, but it's addressed as if she replied. So I made an effort to find the pick tracking, which apparently is available to members. So if any members are watching or anybody wants to spend $25 to confirm, I did not want to do that, but hey, if you want to confirm Pig Tracking is available, please do that. Let us know with hashtag, circle back. But I would say if I was a winning better, I would not hide my tracking and record behind a paywall. That would be my main source of promotion. If I'm as big of a winning better as amanda wins claims to be, would I not want that public to? 

29:21 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
entice buyers. The show is not making a thing about how amanda wins is not a winning better. That's not what the show's about. Everybody knows not only better if you're watching this show she is. 

29:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You know you're winning you know, it's funny to me that she's been selling picks for five years and just starting tracking on Friday. 

29:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yeah, so there is no tracking. I mean, I'm wondering if they're kind of back there. 

29:44 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I don't even mind what she's doing, because I know for a fact nobody's betting these picks, so she's just selling. 

29:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
She's just selling. 

29:49 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
She's just selling like a subscription of like, a following and whatever. And like I'm cool, it's the same To, and I'm cool, it's the same to me, it's the exact same as what Taylor Mathis is doing with the videos and it's all good. 

29:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Just build it. 

30:01 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I know she's selling it, but she's not selling it. There's no one buying it for the pics. 

30:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
We have a section later that we'll get to, but this is kind of my point of these, touts who are doing this also want the respect. 

30:19 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
She's not asking for that. I'll give you that. I'll give you that. But this to be. Go back to the subscription page. Uh, jason, for a second. Okay, the this, this page. Okay, might as well say donate to me a tip, 24.99, donate me 99, donate me 249 and get a chance to talk to me. If that was the page, would we be that mad? No, no, and that is the like. Yeah to me it? 

30:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If that was the pitch, would we be that mad? No, and if that is the pitch, yeah, to me it's like stuff like this is going to exist, but also like she is pretending she's a winning bettor. It literally says access to Amanda's winning bet. Her name is Amanda Wins. 

30:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Right. 

30:53 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
So anyways, all right, let's go. 

30:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
What else we got Picks selling is a little bit of a theme for this one. So the next topic here under not betting it, this one definitely made some rounds on twitter. So jeff rosa, who has featured on the show before for something similar, did a collab bet was cb beef and they had unc plus six and a half minus 110. One and a half units. Heels catching clemson sleeping like equals tailing. Uh. 

31:17
Spinfluencer, once again, once doing the Lord's work, says Really want to know where you got this plus six and a half minus ten from less than ten minutes ago, which is when the tweet was made. Jeff Rosa said Got it last night on FanDuel, would play to four and a half, so sent out a. So anyways, full story here, posting stale lines Excellent. Spinfluencing Rosa says if you want two points of CLV, you can join my cord, mr Police. So essentially saying gave this out last night at six and a half, it's now four and a half. If you want the best prices, you have to subscribe to my Discord. Spin fluencer says keep cosplaying as a tout. 

31:51 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You'll get better at it with time. Well, cosplaying as a tout I think it's a weird thing to say because he is a tout. He's very much a tout. But to that, like, go back to the tweet. These are like this is so many things that boil my blood in the same thing Collab play. Nothing I hate more than a collab play. 

32:08 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
That's like a good collab, yeah, collab. 

32:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Look it helps promote your accounts. 

32:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's just so stupid. Collab, no, but the thing is, it's just so stupid. And then also plus six and a half. He got it last night on FanDuel, Just madness to post this. 

32:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yeah, just don't share it. 

32:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Or post, even if you want to post that like, say, unc plus six and a half I got last night. If you want to play for CLV, sign up for my Discord. Don't get me wrong. Don't sign up for my discord, don't get me wrong. Don't sign up for this guy's discord. But, like, what are? Who is benefiting from UNC plus 6.5 if it doesn't exist? 

32:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
don't post it if it's not available. Or if you're going to like defend yourself when somebody has to call you out, just put it in the main. Also would would play to 4. 

32:53 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Play to four and a half is again another just insane thing to say yeah, I'm sure you've got a three-point edge where you can still get an edge at four and a half. What time was? 

33:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
this posted? Do we know? I don't know when this one exactly was posted, probably earlier than noon. 

33:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Let's say yeah, midday. If you would play to four and a half. I imagine Jeff Rosa had probably 50 grand on this game would be my guess. 

33:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Maybe 100 at a three point. We do know, we do know much how much cb beef has on this one head to this one. 

33:23 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Let me say one one thing here. I just have been noticing this when people post their picks it doesn't matter if it's a collab pick or not and they post some like getty images of the game. That's how you know it's a losing game. You shouldn't be having to post some images Like look they're like, wow, like a lot of people are doing this. 

33:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Now I guess because it's better for the algo it's better for the algo, but it's interesting. But the thing is, if you know it's better for the algo, then you're probably just like a promoter and not a winner well, also who are these guys like I haven't been on twitter, like who's shady, b, b, cbb. 

34:02 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Like every year, man, I know less and less guys honestly I don't know. 

34:05 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
Get mad at me for this, but I think this is a guy who's like frequents l spaces, which is how I know him, and I'm sure a lot of other people now too look, I'm, look, I'm sure he's a, I'm sure he's a nice guy, but the end this is what we got from him from this conversation here. 

34:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
So he quote tweets Jeff Rose's initial tweet about UNC plus six and a half, his collab bet. He's collabing on the UNC plus six and a half, which was not available when they posted it on Twitter. This was around 12.50 pm Eastern time when this was posted. He says full transparency for the B riders I won't have a cent on the spread, but I'll be nuking the money line. So again, I won't have a cent on the spread, but I'll be nuking the money line, all or nothing. So, first of all, didn't bet the thing he gave out, granted, still apparently going to play the money line, but hasn't played it yet. But will be nuking the money line on a bet that esteemed two points to four and a half. So be nuking the money line on a bet that esteemed two points to four and a half. So didn't capitalize on the best price, didn't bet it when it was initially given out and still hasn't bet it when it's given out for a second time at a worse price yeah. 

35:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So people seem to have the problem with him not taking like the same line. Like that to me doesn't matter. Like I will get matters a little. I will give people uh nba spread that I have the money line on. Those are like as correlated as it gets if I can get an off-price money line for my fill. But then I move that line and or I know that like my friends who I'm sending it to can get a better price on the spread. Like that is something I'll do, especially like it's plus six and a half, so they both would if his bet won, their bet would win. But yeah, the fact that to me it's really funny that he didn't bet it yet, because obviously you could say that's like a good tout move of like maybe he wasn't going to move it, but obviously that's not what he's doing, it's more so like he's so surprised that the line moved. 

35:55
He was like no way the line's going to move. I can give it out and get it after. Shockingly it moved. 

35:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
No way, listen, we'll determine. There's no way he was about to move this line, but you are giving it out to your friends, not publicly sharing it on Twitter. 

36:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But if he took plus six and a half, or, sorry, if he sent out plus six and a half and took a money line because he could get a better number on the money line but knew the plus six was more widely available. 

36:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
That's totally reasonable. 

36:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's reasonable, it's not what happened, but I have no problem with that. 

36:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Fair enough, but the story gets a bit worse for the last one we have here because after getting called out for not betting the line that they gave out, which was a six and a half, and if we go back he said specifically I won't have a cent on the spread he got felt bad after getting called out and post a slip where he did not blank out his bet id for some reason, which small tell, uh. But he played north carolina unc plus 164 on the money line for 100 to win 264. That was two and a half hours after the initial jeff rosa post was made, or two and a half hours after the quote tweet saying he won't have a cent on the spread. And because he felt bad, he then bet the line which was available, which was plus four and a half minus 110. He bet 220 to win 420, so he wasn't gonna have a cent on the spread. Then felt bad and bet it and then exposed that the 6.5 again was not available. It was the 4.5. 

37:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Johnny how do we feel about absolute nuking being $320 and having a full DK that you can just bet on? 

37:32 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Yeah, that's go back one. What did he say? Did he say he's absolutely nuking the money line? Is that what he said? But I'll absolutely nuking the money line. Is that what he said? But I'll be nuking the money line all or nothing. 

37:41 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
Yeah, full transparency. I don't like. 

37:44 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I really don't like chirping these guys. They're just selling picks. Like, don't buy the picks, but also like whatever. There's obviously tons of worse, tons of worse things than this. 

37:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Don't buy the picks. There's a lot worse out there than this, but it's just funny, absolutely. 

37:59 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
The line wasn't available. Nuke in the money line. I'm nuke in the money line Look. 

38:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I'm not out of my depth when I'm talking about all this extra money going. You guys bet way more than I do. 

38:11 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I actually do think we should be unit shaming. People say oh, you shouldn't be unit shaming, we might later you actually should be unit-shaming. 

38:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
We may later. 

38:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If you feel like you're good enough to sell picks and win money for people, you should not be betting $100 on an NCAA side that you could be getting, at that point in the day, tens of thousands very easily. 

38:31 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
There's always reasons why people say, oh, whatever, but if you're betting for fun, then we don't unit-shame, especially if you're yeah. If you're betting for fun, then like we don't unit yeah, especially if you're like a guy who's like legitimately, like hey, I'm actually just working. I'm working a job in sports media. I like to have a little bit of action on my plays. 10 bucks is fine. I think I saw um ian mcmillan say this on the golf outright. Like he's betting a massive out, like a high dog outright 51 like put 10 bucks on it, it's like and then people are unit shaming him. 

38:58
He's like yo, like I don't bet for a living. I gave this out an article. I like to have some action on it. Also, realistically, a 10 bet on like a 35 to 1 or a 50 to 1 shot is not as low as you think as you might think, one might say that would change your life. 

39:13
That 10, but that that's not as low as you, as you might think, in terms of what you should be betting for unitizing. But on this, yeah, like if it's a big edge and you're betting 100, and then you're saying like you're the best, like we should be unit, shaming yes exactly to me. 

39:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's it. If you're saying you're the best, then you are allowed to be unit. Shame, because okay, if you're so good at betting, why are you betting 200 on uh ncaa side and why do you have a full DK that isn't banned? 

39:39 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
I will say I'm not 100% sure. I don't think this Beeb guy sells picks. I think he just post plays, that's it. 

39:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Oh, it's collapsed. I'm not 100% sure. Rosa definitely sells picks. Rosa does, for sure. All right, beeb, I apologize to you. If you don't sell picks, then Then I take back the unit. Shame. 

40:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Beeb, take back the unit. Shame. Yeah, he, to his credit, is um and I wanted to put this in is very transparent about, I mean, shows the slips. I mean maybe too transparent by keeping the bet idea in there, but uh, he's transparent about all his results and everything. Um, it's just yeah to. I find it to not have to give it out something, then have the collab post go out and still not have bet it. Uh, I think is a pretty bad look. So I'd recommend if you're going to give out a play, you should have money on it yeah, I don't know, it's all so strange. 

40:24
But, um, they were open about the fact that unc got pummeled in this game as well and the bets did end up, you know, losing. Of course the ones get called out for lose on this one. But yeah, big topic for this show was the pig selling. You had your tweet that you referenced a bit earlier about pig selling in general and you said most of the time it sucks for people who are paying. We are in a shitty industry, there are going to be shitty things, but somehow these people not only want to grift, they want you to respect them while they grift. That pisses me off, mr Peanut. Better replies to your tweet, kurt, saying couldn't agree more. If you want to swindle some gambling addict from their money, not my problem. If that guy's kid wanted to eat, they should have picked a better father, but don't you dare demand my respect on the internet. 

41:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Great tweet, great tweet. Mr Peanutbutter, you always are one-upping me with some good tweets, but I think my point is that, like those guys what's it called Sharp duel? Those guys in that spaces, they, they, they want to sell picks, but then they also come into a spaces on the sharp betting community and are shocked that people are giving them shit for it. It's like, okay, people are going to grift, like that is what this industry is. It's literally an industry that takes advantage of addiction. That is what it is. So like we have to understand that that's going to exist. But then if you're going to come into a spaces or come on twitter, like the idea that people can't shit on you for that is just ridiculous. Like why do you think you deserve respect for doing something shitty? 

41:56 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
any, any single thing anyone does in any industry. If you're like so, you have to accept that somebody is gonna be able to like chirp you and yeah funny when you know and you don't get everyone's respect. 

42:06
So in this scenario I'm with you guys, like I have no problem with people selling pics, by the way, because you're you're buying with your own money, like you're sure it's just marketing. But at the end I've said this multiple times on circles off it's all marketing. Every single thing in the entire world is marketing. It's all media narrative, no matter what you do, every single thing you do, who you vote for in politics like it's all marketing. So don't get mad at a guy for marketing his picks a shady way when you literally buy the ford motor trends truck of the year. But in a random, how'd they get that motor trends award? It's like some company that's sponsored by it's all the same shit. But I do agree with the respecting. Don't be then being like you also got to say I'm the best. 

42:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, to me, that's my thing, I don't disagree. Selling pics is fine. I don't mind people selling pics, I think that's fine. But to me it gets bad when you're misrepresenting yourself. So if you're saying you know you're the number one tennis better in the world, which what some guy on Twitter does, and you're nowhere close to that, that becomes like okay, now we should shit on you. But also it's kind of like a circle of life of like people do shitty things, they get shit on for it, like it doesn't even really affect them, but it's like at least there's like a little bit of you know, like comeuppance. 

43:18 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Well, okay, bit of comeuppance, okay. So also, though, everybody is selling something, no matter what, right? Even if you're selling nothing for money right now on the internet, like I'll take Kirk for an example, right, and obviously I'm just taking you as an example, it's nothing against you, but you're selling something because you're on there building the following and you're telling people, or you're selling the vision that you're a sharp gambler, like right now. You are a sharp gambler, you're winning money, so it's all legit and it's on, it's on the up and up. However, in ten years, if you lose your edge and you start selling picks or you start selling whatever people have bought something from you now, which is, they bought your influence, and they'll do something that you said because you're portraying yourself a different way. So, in theory, you're building up equity and selling that equity to somebody right now, but you're not actually monetizing it yet. But it doesn't. It's the same thing. Like I didn't sell anything for a while. 

44:11
Now, you know the one of the companies that, like I, have a bed stamp and we sell the pro, the bed stamp, pro, pro. Now I, technically, am selling the BetStamp Pro Years of what I did. That made no money for me that I built up my equity on Circles Off saying, hey, I can win, I can crush player pops, I can do this. And now I'm selling the BetStamp Pro to people for a lot of money. But I'm doing it in a way where I tell you, hey, this is why we're going to win, and if anybody tells me, oh, you're not going to win, I'll say, okay, why do you feel like that? And then I'll just tell them, no, this works because of X, y, z. Here's how you do it. It wins. It's not a scam, it's not whatever this is going to make you money and I do it the right way, but everyone's still selling something. 

44:51 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But again, I think that I think we're agreeing. I think selling things is fine, like I've tailed people's picks. I've bought picks before. I still buy hitman's picks because he plays in a really liquid market. I typically can get down, but it's when you're starting to do it and misrepresent what you do. That is where I have a problem. 

45:24 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Yeah, no, I agree. Like if I said for Betsam Pro, like, hey, you're going to make money, and then people were like, hey, no, they're not going to make money doing this because, like X, y, z, and I had like no defense for that and people were calling me out. I would like that wouldn't be right. Exactly Anything I'm doing, I'm standing behind Like anything on that product we're selling. I'm telling you hey, whatever money you are paying us, you should be 100% able to make way more than that if you do things the right way. Now, it's never a guarantee or whatever it's betting, but hey, you have the tools, you have all the odds in front of you, everything's there. You should be able to make money with this. That's the way we're selling it. We're not selling it like, hey, bet these picks and you're gonna win, even though we know those are gonna lose like no one shits on spank odds or unabated like odd screens are very valuable to people. 

46:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
To me, yeah, again like we've kind of gone over it. But when you're misrepresenting what you're doing, that's when it becomes a problem. 

46:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Fair enough, fair enough a lot of shitty content out there, especially in the sports betting space, but tell you you might be able to find some good sports betting content in written form with kirk's hammer. Why don't you tell us about that? 

46:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
yeah absolutely so. I think actually some people are thinking that like this is going to be picks in my newsletter. I'm not giving out picks in here, it's just betting content, the. I write this in the newsletter. It comes out on tuesday. Winning and betting is cool like we've kind of forgotten about that. Being able to win is fucking cool, even if you know I shit on odds jammer. Even if you're an odds jammer, it's cool to do something and make money where you're kind of not supposed to. I've been doing it for a while now. I kind of I'm going to tell stories of my experiences or share my insights of, like, how I would price something. The one that comes out tomorrow is how I'd price lebron 10 plus points I can't. 

47:05 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I can't wait to read it, and then I've already subscribed. But where can people subscribe? 

47:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
yeah, I'll put the link in the description. All you do is put in your email, click on the link. It'll take you a page to put in your email. 

47:14
You'll have access to kirk's hammer every week and I'm sure he'll keep you satisfied on a weekly basis. But we go to the next post and somebody who left this Twitter spaces unsatisfied with how they looked is definitely Steve. Fezzik Got on a Twitter spaces with Elfie and it went a little bit off the rails. There were some conversations previously regarding GRP talking about women who are not yet of age, which are not I don't know what the right word for this unseemly comments by GRP, and Fezzik decided to chime in himself in this conversation and man of the Vig posted a direct quote from Fezzik on this Twitter space saying the point is, if GRP wins, find someone attractive that is 17,. It is no big deal in my opinion. And then went a little bit further when he said and this is Elfie who quoted him here I do find some 17-year-old attractive. Clip that Jason Just clip that me reading it just just clip that me. 

48:24
Me reading it. You need to. You know when I, when I I'm the producer, I end the end. So I just put a disclaimer. This is not me saying this, so nobody can because god forbid that. 

48:29 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
How are you gonna? How you gonna put the disclaimer on spotify? I can still clip it from. That's true. It's on spotify, you can just take the audio version. 

48:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
That's right. Uh, but physics said this, quote I do find some 17 year old attractive and I would never talk to them in that manner. Late in a clip he says quote it's very rare I would find some under 18s attractive, but there are exceptions. So basically, like you didn't really have to, like Fezzik, by his own admission, went on and said this you, you literally didn't have to to say anything, right? 

49:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
genuinely an unimaginable cell phone like. 

49:03 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Why would you do this, just don't say anything, would you say this why I can't comment too much as to there's. It's literally a lose-lose. You can't. You can't win in this scenario, no matter what he says on. You can't win if you go on and say lose, but if you go on and say anything, that's like the correct response. You don't win if you go on and say lose, but if you go on and say anything, that's like the correct response. 

49:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You don't even win, you just don't lose, like physics an actuary like, could he not have a cost benefit analysis? 

49:30 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
what happens if I? 

49:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
say this what happens if I don't say this like what? What were the benefits? Yeah, also what did he think? 

49:35 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
what did he think was gonna happen? What do you think was gonna happen? Happen? No matter what he said, he's losing. He's either losing or he's just not winning, and he's just not losing, and he very much lost, he very much lost. He lost in the opinion of a lot of people and it's tough to come back from that. But why is he on who's saying this? And in public? On a recording he's openly just going to be like, yeah, no, this is it. 

49:59 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
I also want to throw in there that he wasn't asked to come on to defend GRP. He came on himself to defend GRP and this was fully his choice, because people were saying he was being painted in a bad light. No one painted him, no one forced him to come on. He requested to speak. Who? 

50:14 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
said he was getting painted in the bad light. He did GRP. Yeah, fezzik, and. 

50:18 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
GRP did. Obviously, I haven't listened to a single second in any of these spaces, as I'm trying to do some productive stuff with my life. 

50:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Don't worry about it, you're good. 

50:28 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
But Jason did send me this clip in advance of the show, and boy was I laughing. 

50:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
That was a laugh. I was laughing at some of the responses as well. From this we have a few of the good ones here. Mr Peanut Better. Well, first of all Sharp Clark said Fezzik is good at math. It's too bad. Nobody taught him the half your age plus seven rule. Mr Peanut Better quote saying I do think the Sharp guy meme really is reaching the next level, because every time somebody kind of shits on Fezzik they'll by the way, I'm going to preface by saying Fezzik's probably winning better, but also like fuck this guy. That's how they're all prefaced. And then Mr Peanutbutter had a good post here. This is from the the Conan O'Brien podcast, where their guest had no idea all the shit. 

51:09
Jeffrey Epstein had gone in and well it was a bet. 

51:12 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
It was a bet. Oh, was it a bet? I actually tried to dig that. It it was a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

51:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Popular all-time meme. At this point he didn't know Claim did not know all this stuff going on, so he called Jeffrey Epstein the investment banker. So Steve Fezzik the pig seller. Next one was from Andy Molitor Showcases a blackjack hand of 7 and 10, saying I'm catching up a bit on the gambling Twitter space from last night GRP slash Fezzik, do you hit on this or stand Showing the 17. My favorite one was the next one, though Deep Value Better at Deep Value Better, says to speak in terms. Fezz can understand the difference between 17 and a half and 18 is like two and a half and three on an NFL spread, close in distance but meaningful. 

51:57 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
The key number is 17. 

52:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Key, close in distance but meaningful. The key number of 17, key number, it's a very key number that is. 

52:03 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
That is a great yeah, which is why that's that's the the term on the overlay here over under 17 and a half, but in this twitter space as well. Uh, it's not just the the age step that was brought, fezik also talked about. 

52:13 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I'm actually a bit a big believer in this. The law is the law. So if it's below the law, you're out. If it's above the law, you're in. I don't want to be. I don't want anyone to then say like oh it's, uh, you know, this is, this is still like whatever, you can't. If it's, if it's, if that's the law, that's the law. He's, he's on the wrong side here. So he's done, he's right, there's. No, you can't defend it, you can't well, but if he's on the other side, he, he's right. 

52:35
And then you don't talk about it either way. 

52:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
It's a bit like pick selling. It's not illegal, but I can definitely shit on you. 

52:39 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Is it not illegal? 

52:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
though Pick selling. 

52:41 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
No, I'm saying, 17 is illegal. 

52:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I'm saying oh my God, you're making me talk about it. 

52:46 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
You're saying literally don't talk about it. 

52:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
But listen, it's like pick selling. 

53:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Nothing's illegal about pick legal age. However, you're allowed to shit on that person for it. Still, yeah, yes, but what I'm saying is in this scenario is is I'm not, I'm not too well versed in this, but is this not? 

53:09 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
is this, yes, illegal? Yes, there's no, there's no question. If he was saying this about someone who was 18 or 19, then no one can say hey, exactly, that's, that's illegal, like you gotta just we gotta make it. 

53:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
You can still say that shit like you're like I don. Can still say that shit If you're like I don't know what Fezzik is. If you're like 60. If you're, let's say, a random person is 60, dating someone who's 18. I can lose respect for that person. For that. It's not illegal, though. 

53:29
Yes, but what I'm saying is in this particular scenario he's on the wrong side, but there were conversations in the spaces about Fezzik's pig selling as well, and I promise it's the last pig selling topic we have for the show here today. But, kirk, you brought up a specific point here where there was a paying subscriber. Who was who? Was it Jason that said? 

53:49 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
this it was. 

53:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Dan Lifshatz, so you can make the case. He's a paying subscriber, just to dunk on Fezzik in instances like this, but nonetheless a paying subscriber who asked about the play and said the plays were not gettable. Fezzik says what would you like me to do? And you said, Kirk, how about not sell picks if your subs can't get the line? 

54:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah again and I've had this conversation with people at RAS as well. It's like the idea of they would stop selling picks does not exist, like that is just not never in their head. Like it is an unimaginable reality that they could stop selling picks, even if their subscribers like they knew a hundred percent their subscribers were losing that. They will not stop selling picks. So like it's so weird to me. Like Fezzik says what do you want me to do? It's like. It's like they have no options. You, you do have options, fezzik. You've been acclaimed winning sports better for so long. 

54:47 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
You should have a shit ton of money and if you don't, some would say you should have a billion dollars. But some have said in the past some have said in the past, you should have one billion dollars and and perhaps that's on this channel. 

54:58 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
You go to the steve bezic interview but yeah, like that. 

55:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
There are always options of what you can do. And if your subscribers can't get picks and they're losing to me, if you want to be like, do what's honorable, maybe not what's you know best monetarily, you are allowed to stop selling picks. 

55:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
No one is forcing you to sell, sell or just give him out at why, like you, could also give him out a widely available option that people can get down on but he can't win there, but exactly exactly. 

55:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, there's a reason why he's not doing, but also everyone. 

55:29 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
After that fesic episode where I basically explained this to him like hey, buddy, you should definitely like if you're winning this long at in nfl, right before the post, you're saying you're claiming the picks are available. You're claiming all this and you claim you hit 68% since whatever 1972. I'm like so you're literally worth $6.8 billion at this point. And he's like no, I have a wife and a kid so I can't be worth $6.8 billion. 

55:53
And then, anyways, people were like oh, people at the time were commenting, saying like, oh Johnny, obviously he doesn't have a kid, otherwise he would know that there's expenses like buddy. How well did that interview age? I don't miss I don't miss. 

56:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Agreed, I don't miss. Well, we're done with the pig selling stuff, but we're not done with people flexing online. But maybe in one of the most strangest instances we had the ambulatory flex, but before we we get to that flex, maybe it's time to start flexing your edge boost visa debit. Let's hear a word from them. Nothing's worse than getting blocked from making a bet at the worst possible moment You're ready to fire on the NBA, nhl, mma or maybe even an MLB future, and right at the critical time your deposit won't go through. Your card gets flagged, paypal freezes or your bank account just decides nope, not today. 

56:45
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57:58
Start off with Edgebooth, with the link in the description, and start earning today. So, speaking of that flex, we have T-Bone at Vegas. T-bone inside of an ambulance after totaling his car, but could not waste the opportunity here to show off the Rolex in the back of an ambulance. Says Rolex can take a licking, but keeps on ticking. Thanks at Steve, we'll do it. And then Sam at losing underscore better Says almost died in a car accident. Shout out Nelk Showcasing the Rolex. Johnny, you love this tweet. 

58:31 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
This was one of my favorite things. First off, there's no way he's going to see this, but Steve will do it and I know this guy is doing a lot of good stuff. You know I'd previously watched a lot of his content. He gives out so much free stuff's helping a lot of people. He's obviously spending back giving out rolexes doing the thing. What who is he giving? He's just giving rolex to vegas t-bone after they know each other. 

58:55
No, yeah because they did some promo for happy dad and and then he's just gifted a Rolex. How well do you have to know Steve will do it to get a Rolex? That's what I want to know, because it seemingly is you just have to meet him once. 

59:09
That's what it seems like Steve will do it. He's given out so many Rolexes. Keep on going, Steve. Steve's actually, you know like, listen, at this exact moment I'll say this I'm I am a fan of steve will do it. Obviously, things change. I'm not going to cement that in say I'm a fan. 

59:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
At the current date of february 17th. At the current date, 206. At the current date. 

59:27 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I'm a fan of steve will do it. They should definitely let gotta let him back on youtube. Unban steve from youtube. Great videos, but uh, this this comment was was amazing. He literally got in a like a serious wreck where he could have been detrimentally injured and or potentially died. And I'm happy that you're okay, vegas t-bone, we've met in person in a bet bash a couple times, but this was just hilarious. He he basically rolled his car into a dish like it was like a six rollout and then he did a little wrist roll. 

01:00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
The rollie for the rollout and he's like bam, he's like rollie. 

01:00:04 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
keep on ticking. And he posted it on Twitter. This is incredible. 

01:00:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, just unbelievable. I don't even really know what to say about it. My only thought is, if I got into that accident, how low down on the list would doing? Something like this come to my mind, but you know, people are different and this is one of the funniest videos he did go to the casino the next day. 

01:00:25 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
This guy, like low-key, is he's he's living man, he's living like. I don't know what he's doing. I know how much he's making from betting or slots. I don't know exactly what he's doing, couldn't tell you, but he is, he's living. He's a fascinating man, fascinating guy. 

01:00:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
For sure I don't have a rolex, as you can see here, but if I did, I still don't think I'd be flexing it in the back of an ambulance after a near fatal car accident. 

01:00:47 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
But very happy he's all right loki, though it's actually a legendary move. He'll cement like I will, that's an all-timer. 

01:00:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
That's not this is gonna. 

01:00:54 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I will, will not forget this. There's a couple things on twitter that I just won't. 

01:00:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I won't in the bookmarks that's. 

01:00:59 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
That's one that's gonna stay like one like when grp win said he couldn't go to the, uh, the circa opening, ben's like, come and play some bets at the circa opening I think it was in illinois and he's like, oh sorry, you can't. That day, jeff, my mom needs the car. When he said that that's, that's something I'll just, I'll never forget right, and this one I'll never, I'll never forget. Right, and this one I'll never forget, I'll never forget Vegas T-Bone rolling his car into a ditch six times and then doing a wrist roll and posting his Rolex. 

01:01:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
So it's unfortunate that Vegas T-Bone is the example for this one, but in general, at Vegas T-Bone, johnny, how do you feel about the term Vegas in handles all over social media. 

01:01:35 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
We got to retire this. Okay, Vegas is not a flex for anything sports gambling related in the current year. It hasn't been for at least like five, six years now and every year it's getting worse and worse for sports betting because they don't have the major players there. They don't have, you know, the underdogs, the, you know other top books that are taking bets across the nation. So the majority of people are not actually betting in Vegas. In Vegas, you have a couple you know you do have Circa, which is, you know, a great operation, and they're taking bets, and you have a couple others that are sprinkled around and that's it. 

01:02:10
You can't even bet on a lot of stuff in Vegas. Like you can't bet on the same variety, Like the live options are terrible. The same game parlay stuff's terrible. Props are terrible. The same game parlay stuff is terrible. Props are terrible. You could just bet on straight games, not even that much anymore. And people who sell picks obviously not T-Bone here, but a lot of them is like Vegas, Like Vegas runner, Vegas this, like Vegas legend. What is that? It's nothing nowadays. We got to retire Vegas from names and handles. 

01:02:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
The only thing in their defense is like they made it five years ago. They did, they did, fair enough. 

01:02:43 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
And this was not a slight on T-Bone, it just kind of. Caught crossfire he caught in the crossfire with the role. He's actually a legend for that Rolex wrist roll, and I do. This is not against T-Bone, it's just no more Vegasgas. 

01:02:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
If you're starting a new account now, vegas no I think that well, the issue is like the common, better like the amount of people I've had to explain to, because I do my own content and I very rarely talk about, but when I do like I've had arguments over people who think vegas is just like that's where all betting takes place. Like vegas sets the line. Like vegas, like any like sports analyst who says vegas has the line at this, as if nobody else on planet Earth could possibly make up a line for a sporting event and it only comes from Vegas and you can only get odds from Vegas. Like they're all over the world Odds are being set. It's not just Vegas, that's just a common sports betting. 

01:03:33 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Yeah, sometimes people ask me oh, do you bet? I'm like yeah, I know I bet. And they're like oh, like, so you like your bets go through Vegas. I'm like I don't even know what that is. I don't even know what you're asking. How do my bets go through? 

01:03:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Vegas. Honestly, not not particularly often. I haven't heard that much, but I could see it. Like people definitely think it. But I've met people haven't really said to me like really said to me like oh, do your bets go through vegas or are you betting in vegas a lot? But I do like when I go to vegas people are always like, oh, you're going there to bet. I'm like no, it's mostly like a for a bachelor party yeah, or like for something else. 

01:04:07 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
But you can't even really, especially as canadians, it's a lot more difficult. But even like, some people will say like, oh yeah, I got this because I, you know, I'll meet a lot of people sometimes and if they'll see, like what, what industry you? And I'm like, oh, I'm in, like you know, sports betting industry, or whatever, and they're like, oh, you, I got a buddy. He's, guys, one of the biggest gamblers in Vegas, like that means also you're a losing banner. 

01:04:28
If you say, like this guy's one of the biggest in Vegas, like again, what are the chances that he's a big losing? Better, yes. 

01:04:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yes, how often you get this when, because I don't, I'm not a professional sports, but I buy any stretch. I just work in for the hammer sports betting media. So when I get asked what, what do you do for work? I work, I do, I work in sports betting media. The amount of times I, the first reply is, oh, what are the good bets for tonight? 

01:04:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
like that's all that doesn't work that way, man. That's. That's every, every time, every time right, yeah, that that happens. 

01:04:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
So somebody doesn't have Vegas in their handle, which we will give them credit for. But we won't give them credit for some of these tweets here. We hit those at, we hit those double underscore. Nine says just one parlay can change your life, which we'll start off, can we? 

01:05:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
get clarification. What's the square thing? What? 

01:05:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
One parlay can change your life. For me, initially just seeing a tweet like this, I think, if you're giving out picks, what is WAP Pick? 

01:05:28 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
selling. This is WAP. Sports. Wap, I think, is like Patreon, but I believe they made like a sports section Process payments for picks, even if you're giving out picks for free, but especially if you're selling them. 

01:05:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Responsible gaming should be something that's relevant to you and to the people that you are providing the content to. I think that's very important. So a tweet like this, first of all from a responsible gaming standpoint, I don't like. But you noted, johnny, in these other tweets here after saying just one parlay can change your life. Uh, there's a, there's a bet slip here and there's, the page is littered with bet slips. Here's a parlay on the right here at plus uh, 12 671, where they have bet ten dollars to win 1277. Uh, and yeah, one parlay can change your life. Look, um, unit shaming is frowned upon, but you don't think it should be, johnny I. 

01:06:18 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I think we should be unit shaming more for guys who are like, claiming that they're winning, like his things, literally we hit those, like he's, like yo, we hit these, we hit these big parlays, we hit everything. He's selling picks. He's literally betting, like in every screenshot, like five, ten or fifteen dollars a play and like kudos to him. He posted, at least you know, at least he's not hiding it and saying he's betting 50 000, but but like, at the end of the day, like you're, they're legitimately people are, they're selling picks and they bet ten dollars themselves like they're making. It's very clear they're making more money off selling the picks than actually betting, which is, again, just, you know, something to be aware of. Like, if somebody's betting 10 000, I I said this with the dave portnoy thing and a lot of people criticize me a lot it's like I said, yeah, I respect anybody who's betting any like a lot of money on a game. 

01:07:01
I don't care who it is, I'll respect you. Right, and Dave Portnoy bets a million people like no, he's not winning, he's not winning. I'm like, okay, well, I'm not willing to say that for sure, because you know I've been around this game for a while. I've seen a lot of crazy stuff happen. I'm not willing to say Dave Portnoy is a losing. Losing better because there's definitely ways in which. 

01:07:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
But Amanda Wynn is definitely losing better. Amanda Wynn is definitely losing better. 

01:07:22 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Anybody who's betting a million dollars a game like and can fire a million dollars like Pornhoy wouldn't do it right now because he's just too ingrained, but like I would wager that Pornhoy ends up gambling on sports a lifetime up. Do you think? 

01:07:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
that it's something to do with partnerships, though. Yes, for sure, do you? 

01:07:38 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
think that it's something to do with partnerships though. Yes for sure, but I'm saying I would wager that he ends up in his lifetime. Before he goes, he ends up not in the green. 

01:07:47 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I doubt it, just because maybe, if he's out of Barstool, but even his insane limits, I still don't think it would be worth hurting his DK relationship. And right now, right now that's. 

01:08:00 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
But yes, but what I'm saying is like the brand he's built where everyone thinks he loses anyways, all I'm trying to say is this if someone bets, even if someone bets 10 grand a game, or if someone's betting limit. 

01:08:10
I had a thing I said on circles off where, where, basically, what I say is, if you're not betting the limit, I don't respect you and I would not even listen to your picks or anything like that. And the reason being and it's it's a hot take it's a hot take, but you shouldn't be betting a market unless you're betting the limit. 

01:08:26
And that's my, my honest, well, well, like you can be an earlier better undercapitalized, yeah, building bankroll even then I would say don't bet the market unless you're betting the limit. So what I mean by that is like find something where you're betting limit. 

01:08:40
Otherwise like if you're betting props, you should be betting limit. Right, it's not that hard to get to that point. And you know, maybe there is an exception where it's like hey, your first little while betting, but even in that, in that time period, it's's limit. So if you're betting props, you should be betting the limit. If you're betting straights, you should be betting the limit. And I'm not saying if you're betting nfl you have to bet 100 grand a game, because that's the limit for click. But what I mean is, if you're betting nfl, then and you're betting it at post, then yeah, I don't respect you, unless you're betting max of everything. If you're betting an early week, maybe you're like okay, the most I can get down at this price is 20 or 25. It's a hot take and if you guys disagree with it, I would urge you to even wait two more years and then you'll realize what I'm saying. 

01:09:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, I think it can be tinkered a little bit. To me it's not so much a respect thing, but it's like that should always be kind of your goal, of you should be getting to limit, and then that's kind of when you know, okay, maybe I could take on another market, or maybe I could bet a little later. 

01:09:41 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
This is also assuming you have an edge. What is your current restriction on betting NBA? What would you say would be your restriction of not betting more? Would it be you don't get the price you need or you're betting? 

01:09:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm essentially always betting the limit at the time I'm betting. 

01:09:57 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
So you're taking down the market at a price that you're saying is good and you're getting the max liquidity at that. Is that correct? Yes, Okay. 

01:10:09
But also, obviously, this isn't at 7 pm, this is at, you know, when I bet, exactly so at the time you're betting, you're taking down limit for everything which is someone that I would potentially respect or, you know, have a great chance of respecting as a top. Better, if you're taking down like, let's say you were like, okay, I like this, I like jazz plus six and a half, and I can get down 62,000 at six and a half minus 08, but I only want 20,000. Then what I'd say is you're not at the top level at that point. 

01:10:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, yes, no, I totally agree with that. It's like the respect thing just makes it like a little confusing because, like, what happens if you're betting limit but you're just shit, you know, then do you respect them. 

01:10:48 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I don't automatically, I don't automatically think they're a good, better, but I have a level of respect for them in certain, in a certain way that they are actually putting up real money at the, at the top, like they're actually doing it. So I have the respect for that. I'm not saying that because I respect you. I'm not saying Dave Portnoy is, you know, winning right now. If you give me a bet and say hey, this is Dave Portnoy's bet, he just bet, you know, celtics plus six and a half for a million dollars, I'll probably be able to tell you yeah, that's on the per bet basis, but I'll still have respect that he bet a million dollars on that. 

01:11:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I think I don't totally agree, but I get what you're saying like to me. We talked about it with rosa and that guy of like I would seeing he bets a hundred dollars at dk. I know I would never give him my like credit for being a better. I would never ask, seek out advice, see what he's doing. Because he's betting at a time where you can get endless amounts of money and he's paying a hundred dollars, so he's probably not very serious? 

01:11:44 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
exactly, he's not. He's not at it. But you could my my point here. I I wish I could say more stuff to make it strong, but I'm gonna keep some like info and stuff to myself here. But like I, I genuinely believe if you're not betting limit, then it's it's a mistake that you're making on your end. If you're not betting limit, then it's a mistake that you're making on your end. If you're not betting limit, you should be betting. You should be taking down the full liquidity of whatever price you can get at all times for that market and whether you need to assume all of that risk on your own is, you know, potentially something but the market should be taken down. 

01:12:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If you really are a good bettor at the top level, then that's how it should be yes, yes, if you are a better at the top level, I agree, like obviously that advice doesn't go for everyone if you're losing better and like don't bet limit. But yes, I agree, I think it's a good goal of like, okay, I want to win in props. I'm winning overnight betting as much as you possibly can. Okay, now I'm clearly like want to take another step. I'll go props in the morning, like that's how you should know where you are on the spectrum isn't there something to be said for kelly, though? 

01:12:45 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
like if people want to employ kelly, you can't really do that if you're betting limits every single time yeah, well, I think johnny's saying mostly like kelly should kind of not matter. 

01:12:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If you're at that level in terms of like you're typically, the limit will be lower than your kelly stay yeah, and I'm saying, like you should have some sort of set. 

01:13:02 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
That's what I'm saying. I can't really give super a crazy amount of info, but like you should have some setup going where. Where this doesn't matter, you know, you shouldn't be worried about like, oh I, I actually like can't be. If you're at the top level. If you're at top level and I preface that again if you're at the top level, if you're at the top level and I preface that again if you're at the top level, you should be betting the max. If you're not betting at the top level and you're betting $10, whatever, that's fine, but I'm not expecting you to win if that's the case. 

01:13:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Right. Bring back unit. 

01:13:29 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
shaming is what you want Bring back unit shaming for people who are selling something and are claiming their unit. Shaming, so don't. 

01:13:36
This is what I'm saying, like don't bring don't bring up the unit shaming for ian mcmillan who's writing an article and said you know, I also want a ten dollar sweat on this. But like I don't do this for a living and I'm just like I like to write about the tournament of golf, like I'm not saying bring up unit shaming for this guy and say, hey, your article, I don't want to read your article because you only bet 10 bucks. 

01:13:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He might have, it, might just be an interesting read, but bring up unit shaming for someone who's saying we hit these parlays, we win all this money and then they're back, life-changing yeah yeah, life-changing money yeah, well that we, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, uh, bring this up, but it to me, the funnier part than the ten dollars was one parlay is life-changing money, and then it was to win like a thousand bucks which is not nothing, which is all his parlays. 

01:14:14 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
By the way, if you go through life, changing 10 bucks, 15 bucks some of them was like he said like one parlay will change your life the dirt. I believe the direct tweet after that was uh 10 for 140 I'm gonna say if that is life-changing, you should not be betting. 

01:14:26 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
Like just speaking from a responsible gaming angle, like if that's life changing, you shouldn't be banking. 

01:14:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I don't feel bad roasting because of the initial tweet. 

01:14:32 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
One parlay can change your life and I think the unit shaming and kind of what johnny was talking about as well is like how much you bet does matter a lot, at least in my head as well. Like I agree with Johnny in terms of like the people I seek out advice from are people who I know are better than me and typically that means they're betting more money at me at more competitive times. Like those are the people who I really want to like you know, get to know and see what they do. Those are the people who, yeah, like respect is an interest is a good word. Like those are the people I would give a lot of respect who are betting limit at you know later times. Who are like coming in you know at post that's like what you call end game originator who like that's kind of everyone's goal yeah, exactly. 

01:15:14 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
but what I'm saying with the limits is there's limits at different times at the day, so you could be like a, a really good overnight originator, but you're still going to bet max for overnights. If you're endgame originator, you're going to bet max for endgame. It makes sense. I compare it to stocks, like I'm not respecting someone who's like I'm an amazing stock trader, but then like their portfolio value is like $6,000. Like they're just starting out. 

01:15:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Like it's also okay if you're not smashing maxes. Betting's just a hobby. Betting's a hobby for me. I win money, but I don't win a lot of money. I'm not a losing bettor by any means. 

01:15:48 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
And with that being said, you're not at the top level. 

01:15:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I'm not asking for respect from professional bettors about my betting. I'm not. 

01:16:05 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I still do have to max it out. I'm not, I'm not everybody. Please gamble responsibly. If, if you're, if you're, if you don't have an edge, which is going to be a lot of people especially in, like overall the space, this, this show, probably scales more to people who do have an edge. But if you, if you are betting like just you know, bet a couple bucks is you are going to lose. If you're just bending without an edge, it's a bit hard to bet a lot. 

01:16:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
It is difficult to find an edge in sports betting, but I hear there's a tool that can actually make it a little bit easier oh you go, we going into this. 

01:16:28 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Yeah, I appreciate the uh, the cue up there. Jacob bed stamp pro is the best tool right now in the market as of today's date again, I like to timestamp stuff as of today's date you will crush by using this tool to beat player props. We have, uh, and are in progress of basically having every single prop market for, uh, every sport and um for every prop. So every prop, every book, every sport, that's the goal for the product as of right now. You know we've got the major sports. We've got almost all the sports books, uh, including, you know, a few that you probably don't have and might be able to, you know, register for. And then we do have you know, a lot of the prop types. So for NFL and NBA, we've got pretty much every single prop type that's on site Screen's amazing. We'll compare all the odds for you, perfectly sortable, perfectly adjustable. We'll compare all the odds for you, perfectly sortable, perfectly adjustable. We've got over five years history across every single prop type. So you know, you click, you see the line history for every single Kyrie Irving assist, for you know that. You'll see exactly when it opened at every book. You'll see when it opened at Pinnacle when it opened at, you know, x book, y book, c book, and you can see every single line move. You'll be able to draw a lot of your own conclusions. 

01:17:43
But even if you're just, you know, looking to put in like a couple hours a day and add props to your um, you know, to your betting portfolio, is an amazing way to do it. And, uh, if you have the accounts and you have the outs, it's a great way to scale. So I would highly recommend giving it a shot. It's not a cheap product. It's. It's very expensive, but it's expensive because you will make money using it. So, at the end of the day, like I said, amanda Vance's product, it's $250 if you don't bet the picks and it's $800 if you do bet them. Ours is a lot more, but it's actually you make money if you do bet the picks. 

01:18:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
So it's not costing you anything. I use BetStamp Pro. I know Jason uses it. Great product I really like you can sort by EV, sort by edge and look for the best picks. 

01:18:28 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Listen, if anyone's seen Forward Progress like it's helping me become like a really, really winning bettor, so I mean that's yeah and the other great thing about BetStamp Pro, to be honest with you guys, is if you're not a props bettor, you can learn the market by using this. So for player props, right now and I've referenced this a few times before this really is like kind of a golden age for player props. Back when I started, you know, 10 plus years ago, player props were way easier to beat, super easy to beat. However, you actually couldn't get down on player props Like no one was taking $10,000 on a prop. They're taking, you know, maybe 50 bucks at certain books and they'd limit you real quick on player props. 

01:19:08
And because of the popularity of fantasy sports and of all these different things that have happened now, um, the major books, the major sports books that are taking bets in Canada, in the USA, in the regulated market, are taking more. That is far trumping now the limit for a college basketball spread or a college basketball total, which in the previous regime of sports betting, you know you'd say, oh well, college basketball is, you know it's the full game, so that's, you know, going to be there. Now, nba props, nfl props, books are taking way more on those and they're still easy relative to beats. They might be a little bit harder to beat than they were 10 years ago. Still can be beat, but now you can actually get a lot more money down and they're not just going to instantly limit you for betting a player prop because at the end of the day, a lot of these books they're taking majority of action on the actual prop markets as opposed to the straights. That's my pitch, Jacob, I guess. Tell them how to do it. 

01:20:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yeah, check it out with the link in the description, as we have for every Circleback episode we've done. Check out BetStamp Pro with the link down below, whether you're listening in podcast form or watching on YouTube. I tell you you may not find Plus EV on plays like this one here. We have at I Run so Bad 1, great account on Twitter posting this screenshot of RB's rbs. Rbs sports plays saying bro, we teasing hoops now with uh, the little dc icon at the side, as you can see there. Um reply from on it bit says original spreads too sharp. Man, gotta alter or take live dead. President picks replies to that says you get it teasing hoops, kirk. Uh, you're a proficient basketball better. Do you think you can find an edge on basketball teasers when the original spreads are too sharp? 

01:21:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
yeah, it's just a really funny thing to say original spreads. Too sharp man to go to tease them. 

01:21:16 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
No funnier ones. That though, you get it. You get it, man, this guy gets it. You get it, man, this guy gets it. 

01:21:21 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
I thought it was sarcasm. For a second I wasn't sure. Then I saw that dub call. I'm like, okay, it's not, yeah, that's really funny. 

01:21:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I do not recommend teasing spreads, especially if you think the original lines are too sharp that you can't beat them. You're going to tease it that. That seems like a losing strategy to me. 

01:21:38 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
I yeah I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think tech k, technically though, you could find an edge in a teaser without having an edge in the game, as has been done for years with the, with the wong teasers in nfl. So I'm not going to say no, but just like read the combo. 

01:21:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's hilarious yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like I feel like for a lot of these things it's like you could make an argument of something, but you know that's not what they're saying? 

01:22:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, specifically talking about basketball, yeah. But I'm saying, there are. 

01:22:06 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
NBA teaser edges as well, Like there could be. 

01:22:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And by the way, maybe I don't even know them. 

01:22:10 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
But technically, like, if you do this, this, this thing, in this particular scenario, when you know X team needs a win and the other team might be playing for nothing if they don't win, I don't know what it is, but there's definitely ways you can beat it without beating the main spreads. 

01:22:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
But in this scenario, just like read it but just to say the original spreads are too sharp. So now I have to take a market adjusted price. I'm probably paying too much to get that's. That's not too sharp. 

01:22:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This very much reads as the bulls are plus six tonight, that's too sharp. I'm going to tease them to plus eight, because I think that's more likely to win Exactly? 

01:22:42 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
At what point will the general public realize that this stuff is just derivative off of the main lines? 

01:22:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Never Will we ever get there. It's only a one and a half apple. Sometimes it's not that much. 

01:22:52 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Who liked the tweet? Was this you or is that? Oh, that's his, it's his. 

01:22:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I run so bad. Who likes a tweet? Who puts a screenshot? Second time they featured also with the Amanda Vance refrigeration from earlier. That was good as well. That was Prop Dude. Oh, it was Prop Dude. Oh, the same guy. My bad Guys, canada is up four zip on Finland right now. 

01:23:10 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
It's halfway through the second period. I'll call it right now. I'll call it. 

01:23:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I'm not afraid to call it. 

01:23:17 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Canada's going to win, I'm not afraid to call it. They won this game, canada-. So, it's Canada-US, right Canada-US, we might have to pause. 

01:23:23 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
When is this Thursday? 

01:23:25 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
When is this, Jason? 

01:23:26 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
Thursday I think it's I thought it was Wednesday that game's on. 

01:23:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Thursday, I believe the 20th, my schedule for Thursday night. We need Rob to revive. He won't do this, but I'll put pressure on him. We need Rob to do a watch party for this Canada game With. 

01:23:43 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
Kanish. 

01:23:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
With Kanish, if you want to see that happen, you have to let us know in the comments and on our Twitter feed at CirclesOffHQ and potentially we can make it happen. Guys, it's not up to me, but maybe it is up to you guys. Final thing we're going to be talking about here Y, d, k, b, essentially a conversation surrounding can you beat the books with ball knowledge? Giuseppe at Giuseppe Papp says why do we call top-down betting plus EV betting? There are other ways to generate positive expected value, like DVIG to ball knowledge, smh. Professional punter at luria cole. Is that what it is? The ball knowledge guys always make me chuckle. 

01:24:26
I often tell friends if you have zero bias and don't watch sports and the full at vd gen, boost cno, walk through. You'll probably be 10 times more profitable than someone betting based off being sorry quote, unquote sharp or having ball knowledge, lol. Zach at zach underscore s67 says understandable one end, other end. This isn't true if you understand player coach, rotation matchups and more. Not everything needs to be ev betting to make money. People are just very good at understanding the niche. And then professional punter finishes this this I have here by saying do you truly think there is any aspect of player slash, coach, slash rotation, slash matchup that a book hasn't considered when pricing a line for a market they offer. I've played slash, watched sports my entire life. I will never have one one hundredth of the knowledge a book does about my favorite sport. So we'll start with you, kirk. You don't even need to have one one hundredth of the knowledge a book does about my favorite sport. So we'll start with you, kirk. 

01:25:20 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
You don't even need to have one one hundredth of the knowledge. 

01:25:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
We'll start with you, Kirk Is there any aspect of player code rotation magic that a book hasn't considered when pricing a line? 

01:25:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So there's so much about this that pissed me off yeah. And I tweeted about this earlier this week. For whatever reason, odds jammers and alike don't understand that the reason lines move, typically excluding injury knowledge, is because sharp people are betting it. They're like don't, don't try beating the line yourself, use odds jam with somehow not understanding that the reason the lines are moving and they're getting a stale dk line is because someone is betting on Bookmaker. 

01:26:01 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
They think that the lines just move because something happened. 

01:26:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah like the lines move because people bet, not because some magic in the air. The books just decide to move a line. If you're watching an odd screen pin Bookmaker bet online all move. That's because someone who is a big bettor came in and bet it. 

01:26:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
And you're getting your st line at. 

01:26:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, you're getting your stay line at MGM and be happy with that, but I don't. It's like they have no knowledge of why these lines are moving. And also, when did plus EV like? I'm not even sure if most people who call themselves plus EV bettors even understand what plus EV means. 

01:26:38 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
No, they don't. 

01:26:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Now it's become just like a term, like plus. 

01:26:41 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
EV. They don't even know what it stands for, plus expected value. 

01:26:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Exactly, completely agree, it makes no sense. So, yeah, and I thought that top tweet was actually really funny D-Vig to ball knowledge. But I thought he was saying like he was like an originator. D-vig toable knowledge is funny to me. 

01:26:58 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
In the past year, many people have come up to me and said oh, you do sports betting, so what do you do that you do like EV betting. 

01:27:04 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
That's what they say I get that a lot, so what are you doing? 

01:27:07 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Like EV betting, and some people would say what do you do Like EV plus betting Like EV and betting're like uh, yeah, I guess kind of. 

01:27:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But yeah, people, just I don't know it. Just it's become a word. Ev is a word, it doesn't stand for anything, so you know what? 

01:27:28 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
they think. By the way, they think you could either do arbing or ev betting yes, and ev betting is like taking one side and arbing is taking both sides. 

01:27:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's what they think ev betting plus ev betting is but they don't realize that the reason they're EV bedding is because the line is moved and you're getting a scale line because someone better yes, also literally based on like this becoming a major mainstream thing amongst gambling Twitter, it's actually opened up so many more edges to randomness. 

01:27:59 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Oh, to people just doing this, it's like, oh, oh, you, you don't ah, you don't know the ah okay all right, oh, a hundred percent. 

01:28:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
A hundred percent because, no, I won't say more, but no, we can't but but this last tweet here also like and I tweeted this as well like the books aren't the ones with the knowledge of the players, the coach, the rotation, the matchup. What the books do well is understanding who is good, who's bringing money and where they need to move the line to and when they need to move limits, and also having, like, good derivative calculators, stuff like that. But the original line that comes out is draft kings and or bet online for nba overnight. Bet online will take 500 bucks and draft kings will ban you if you have a pulse like. It's not. 

01:28:47
They don't have these insane basketball models that are coming up with these insane lines. I've seen a group chat of um like people originating a line at a book and it was generally genuinely comical. They just want to kind of get it in the range because they know people will bet it and get it into the right spot. Obviously they want to be close to it, but it's not that they have these insane models that are putting out these unbelievable lines no, of course not, and I'll tell you this, like we've had Matt Metcalf on this channel. 

01:29:21 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
He was a former you know director at Circa Sportsbook. Now he's working on a different company. We just had the podcast with him. I've talked to him multiple times. He's one of the top bookmakers in the entire world and the reason is not because of his domain knowledge. In fact, I would argue that the average NBA fan has, you know, 10x the domain knowledge of NBA. 

01:29:39
As Matt, he is an expert at charting to his data, like he will see the bets come in, chart to that and move the numbers based on that, entice action in certain ways and end up with the best net positions. That is what bookmaking is. That's what the book is doing. They're just ending up, if they're truly bookmaking, you know, like a lot of the top offshores, um, you know, like the pinnacle, like the circus, if those guys are are doing bookmaking like that, what they're doing is ending up with good positions, the same way you're trying to do as a better. 

01:30:11
Yeah, that's all they're trying to do. So they technically yes, there's, it's an, it's ideal that you know, you know who's in and out so you can, like you know, improve those positions, but that's all you're doing is just taking maybe a few less bets by adjusting the number manually, and all you're doing with that is improving your positions. But if you didn't even know who was playing, had no knowledge, and we're just charting to like this is game number abcde versus adecf, and you had no idea what those teams were or even what the sport were, if you're a top bookmaker, you can win based on that. 

01:30:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yes, 100%. The amount of people that because it's not just like the average person has this preconceived built-up thing over their life of Vegas knows Vegas. Knows Like oh my God, this line is weird. Like what do they know that I don't know? Like, probably, you probably know more in a lot of cases and people you've talked to other people on this channel as well about this. People will be floored by how little goes into setting an opening line that's just shaped by sharp action. That's how you come up with the sharpest price. But there's so many people who have big social media followings in sports betting who cannot wrap their head around that. 

01:31:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, like Vegas knows who has bet what where and what shirt? 

01:31:25 - Jason Cooper (Announcement)
Not just Vegas. Vegas doesn't know that. 

01:31:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But whoever is sportsbook knows that's what they know. They don't have these like unbelievable prediction models. Some books maybe do, but they don't like they. Just if you can click you can use an odd screen click on an NBA game, make sure there were no injuries. Plenty of them move four point totals, five point totals, like that happens all the time. It's not this insanely accurate model, but shout out to professional punter. He tweeted, yes, saying hand up people who knew more than me, came in and said I'm wrong and that's what we asked for on this show. You know, just take responsibility if you have a bad take, and and he absolutely did that mad you're wrong on twitter. 

01:32:12 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
Yes, yeah, you guys also know the average college kid who has like a friend on the football team has information that the book doesn't have. Maybe, maybe they can't capitalize on that, Maybe it's nothing that's, you know, going to be able to be bet in a way where you can win. But the average guy will have more information in the book on something, because anything. When people say like I guess what, what are you saying is knowledge, right, he's he's calling it knowledge, Like do you have knowledge that the book doesn't have? 

01:32:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yes. 

01:32:38 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
What I would refer to that as is information, which information could be news. It could be a way you might react to news different than a book would, or it could just be watching the game and finding something that somebody wouldn't know. So if you know that this college team will start the second half with this rotation, because he keeps taking the best player off and resting him for the first four minutes of the second half, then there's a way that you can make money on that and to think that the book and when they say the book, there's also hundreds of books so like what are the odds? 

01:33:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
He's basically the book. 

01:33:16 - Johnny (Betstamp) (Co-host)
There's like hundreds of books Underdog may know and price something where you can't beat it, and then X other book may price it in a way where you can beat it. So to say, oh, the book knows, they have the domain knowledge and I don't, is ridiculous, because all you have to do is beat them on one literal thing that you realize. And again, all you also have to do is beat one book, not even all the books to win. 

01:33:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And one other thing I think that, like a main reason myself, you all winning bettors can win is because, no, you as well, is because, like a part of it is because the general public has in their head, vegas knows and you can't beat these books, so there's so many less people who try because they think, oh, it's impossible. 

01:34:03
So, like you know, I'm sure there are a lot of smart math people, a lot of smart people even in finance, who probably could make more money betting, who just think in their head, oh, that's not something you can do, but like, kind of once you open your mind and realize, no, you actually can win, then you have a lot more possibilities. 

01:34:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yeah, like, take top down betting. I do a lot of top down betting. I'm not investing all my time into coming up with plus EV positions, originating plus EV positions. I'm just not capable of doing that. So, like, the ability to bet top down stems from a lot of people not doing it and, as more people have realized, top down betting has become more difficult in the last few years. For sure, but the reason it exists is because people just don't believe that they can be off market. So if one, if a book, has a, a spread that's seven and a half when everyone else is six and a half, people treat that what do they know like. What do they know? Why is this seven and a half plus seven and a half when everyone else six and a half? Well, you could bet that and likely get a plus, an actual plus ev position, and get positive cov from that standpoint. But I think that's a good way to end ourselves off here. 

01:35:06
Lots of jam-packed information on the show. If you did enjoy what you saw from circle back, episode number 19, then please make sure you do hit that like button and also make sure you are subscribed to the channel for weekly episodes like this. And rob is back from vacation next week, so we will be reviving the thursday content as well on this channel. If you're listening in audio form, please take a second to rate and review five stars and, wherever you're watching, leave a comment, whether it be on youtube or on twitter. How did I do as host? If I did a good job, let us know. If I did a bad job, let us know as well, because then you won't have to watch it again. But thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much to our presenting sponsor, underdog. This has been. Circle back episode 19 of the circles off channel part of the hammer betting network. Peace out everybody.