00:00 - Kirk Evans (Host)
coming up today on circle back ai essentially uses all public information to try getting an understanding of something, but sports betting is very secretive. 

00:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Here's five bucks shut up some of the most disgusting creatures on earth, like a lot of the problems exist because the regulations allow them to exist. I think that's the most important piece here, right, but you? 

00:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
want a couple of your buddies divorced, so like they're just available. 

00:28 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Disclaimer. The content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions. 

00:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right, everyone. This in the business is called a cold open. There's no intro, there's no fluff, it's just me trying to speak honestly to you. Now, if you're sick of the poker drama, you're sick of the spaces, sick of the arguing, I get it. Feel free to skip ahead, no hard feelings if you do that. But this is something that I need to say Because the past week, my name has been out there A lot In ways that are frustrating, in ways that are unfair and in some ways that I also do have to take responsibility for. I haven't had a chance to speak about all of it On my own platform Without being cut off, without people assuming intent, without the discourse being filtered through Twitter's worst echo chambers. So that's what I'm doing here, not trying to play the victim. I'm not trying to protect anyone. I just want to explain what happened, what I regret and what I want to change moving forward. So let me start here. I know why I spoke out on this situation. 

02:05
The moment the accusations around this poker game started making their rounds, I had a gut feeling that the full story wasn't being told. The leaked DMs were being framed as this ironclad evidence of cheating. There was a feeding frenzy online. People seemed ready to crown the guilty parties before even reviewing any of the relevant data, and I know there's a fairly straightforward way to get to the truth at least as close as we can to get to the truth in situations like this. I've seen dozens of these types of cases before. I know it's a running joke on this channel and it will continue to be about me consulting for sports books. But to make it more clear, I was the commercial director for a very large offshore brand with two of the biggest offshore poker rooms in the US under my portfolio. I've dealt with plenty of suspected collusion cases from that world. That's the main reason I felt qualified to speak on this situation. I've had that experience. This isn't pretending that I'm better than anyone else. This is just the lens that I've developed after years of being in the industry. I'm not walking into an operating room telling the surgeon how to perform procedures. I'm not telling a race car driver how to pick up more speed around the corners. I stay in my lane. This is my lane. 

03:35
In addition, when you have someone that represents your brand, like Chris Dierkus Flop Does here With Circles Off, you have to take any accusations of wrongdoing seriously. I have that responsibility to our board of directors at the Hammer, to our other employees and to you, the viewers and listeners as well. So that's why I got involved and, yes, I realize now that jumping into the public discourse was a mistake. The way I got involved that's on me. I should have handled things behind the scenes quietly, professionally. Instead I jumped into spaces, gave my opinion an opinion. I still stand by, by the way, that we shouldn't be rushing to judgment that people were drawing conclusions off of a sliver of evidence or a sliver of a conversation. But I also offered up a solution. I was actively trying to find a trusted third party to go through the hand histories and assess what really happened at those tables, because if you're going to claim collusion, that has to be backed up by patterns, not by vibes. That audit was ultimately conducted by a neutral third party with no ties to anyone involved. 

05:03
Still, I recognize how all of this looks to outsiders, that I was quote-unquote protecting someone, that I was choosing a side, and in hindsight I get it. It's part of what happens when you enter a charged space. People assume you're defending your guy, even if you're just trying to get to the truth, I did not play in this poker game. I had no role in running it. I don't even work with any of the accused players in any betting capacity. I was just as confused as some of you when people started pointing fingers at me. And here's something else that gets lost in the shuffle. Sharp bettors don't all know each other and all work together. In many cases, we actually can't even stand each other, so this idea that we all move as a unit is flat out wrong. 

06:03
Now, this past week has also forced me to reflect on the bigger picture, on the kind of content that I've contributed to in this space. On Circleback, we talk about a lot of stuff. We've platformed topics and people from the gambling Twitter world and I think there's value in that. But I also know that it has contributed to the current culture that exists. Our show is built around the biggest conversations happening on gambling Twitter and, yes, we all give our opinions. Sometimes people won't like them, but that's okay and that's the point. We try to create a place where conversation is welcome. We don't expect everyone to agree. We respond to people on Twitter. We engage with the comments down below. We want dialogue. That's always been part of what we're trying to build here as a community. Now a fellow better made a comment this week to me that really stuck with me, where he said it's the spaces they mixed a bunch of people that were never meant to actually interact with each other, and that person is right. 

07:15
The dynamics in these open forums are very often, in my, completely incompatible. That's part of why the discourse has gotten so broken. There's no willingness for discourse anymore. Everyone jumps to certainty on either side. You're either a good guy or you're a scammer. You tell the truth or you're a liar. There's no middle ground. There's no room for questions. There's no room for nuance. There's no room for nuance. 

07:46
Kirk Evans, who's part of this show and part of our Circleback team, wrote a really insightful edition of his newsletter Kirk's Hammer. It was on Bayesian thinking this past week and it really hit me. So much of the discourse has become black and white. People treat accusations like they're facts. They forget how to assign probability to uncertainty. If you haven't read that article, I do recommend it. We'll drop it in the description below, not as a promo well, kind of as a promo but because it genuinely helped reframe how I was thinking about this whole situation. Part of what makes this industry interesting is that there are many different ways of thinking. But instead of discourse, we get shouting matches. We get people choosing teams. 

08:45
And, let's be honest, some of the criticism I've received has been totally fair. I let myself get dragged into back and forths that I simply shouldn't have. I got petty, I lost the plot. I let frustration take over. And that brings me to Elf. 

09:04
Earlier in the week, I put out a tweet implying that he had gambled on other people's dimes at a private event in Boston. I want to apologize for that. I did believe it at the time that I tweeted it because I was in the VIP room with him that night. I watched him celebrating a lot of wins, but after discussing the events of that night again with other parties who were there, it is clear to me that that wasn't true. So, elf, I do apologize for that. That was a swing and a miss on my part. That said, I don't have any interest in repairing this relationship Because the tweet that Elf posted leaking a DM of mine, presenting it as some sort of scandal. 

09:53
To me, that was a deeply misleading act and from the outside, looking in, it looks like I'm asking him if he has inside info on whether his friend or himself excuse me can do the pushups with the intent to bet it. I mean, that's how the DMs read. It's a fair read of the DMs. From anyone looking in, that's exactly what they say. But what actually happened was this Elf's friend, brett Feinsod, openly stated in a Twitter space that he'd already bet $8,000 on the over Over on Elf's pushups. Someone I know messaged me and said hey, if Brett's on the over, he probably knows something here. So I reached out to Elf via DMs At the time. We were tight. We were chatting pretty regularly. I figured if he had said something privately to Brett, he would very likely tell me as well. To his credit, he didn't tell me anything and that was the end of it. 

10:56
I never bet the event. I wasn't going to bet the event. There was essentially zero liquidity, aside from Brett's bet. I had no interest. This wasn't something I was going to take to market. I simply went back to the person that messaged me. I said I think the event is fair and that elf hasn't talked to anybody. 

11:17
It was a throwaway push-up contest in a friendly community setting. It's not in my character to try and steamroll a group of people I know personally for a quick buck. Now I'll be honest. I do seek out inside info for real sporting events. That's just part of betting. It's part of how anyone gains an edge. It happens every single day in this industry. But trying to learn if a quarterback is going to be out this week is not the same thing as rigging a community push-up contest. So the idea that this dm is some sort of smoking gun that's a complete joke, and that's one that really threw me for a loop, and especially the willingness of people to believe it in this space without asking any questions. 

12:13
Now on to something even more serious. Last week, man of the library shared an old Facebook photo of me playing broken telephone with one of my best friend's kids during our annual Friendsmas dinner, and he used it to make the most vile implication possible. I'm not going to repeat the term on here. You know what I'm talking about. Man of the library has a daughter himself. Okay, if he truly believed there was something nefarious going on, why did he not go to the authorities? Why is he taking it to a Twitter spaces? 

12:59
It is disgusting behavior, going to spaces, calling me a monster, saying don't assume that I'm wrong about my insinuation. You are wrong and you are pathetic for putting that out there. That is a line no one should cross ever. Period, end of story. Accusations like that don't just challenge your reputation. They rip something out of you. And even if most people don't just challenge your reputation, they rip something out of you and even if most people don't believe it, there's always doubt that can linger in someone's mind. That's the damage and that's the cruelty in doing something like that. To the people who were in the spaces and immediately stepped in and shut that down, thank you. I remember everyone that was there. That's something that I will not forget. 

13:48
As for the rest of it the chatter, the rumors, the character assassination I saw it all right. Why is Rob selling cameos? Well, I mean, the reality is I haven't sold a cameo in a long time, but when I did, it was part of a campaign to raise money for charity. Why doesn't Rob donate to charity? I do Often. I'm diabetic. I've lost family members to strokes. I've seen what addiction can do to friends I give, to causes that are deeply personal to me. Rob is always talking about how he makes millions of dollars a year betting on sports. I've never said that once. You won't find a single clip of me ever saying that, because it never happened. I don't speak publicly about my financials and through all of this, I'm still trying to keep my business running and also support my team. 

14:48
I'm responsible for more than just myself, and juggling all of that while being at the center of this shitstorm has taught me a lot, especially about how misinformation spreads. Once a false narrative takes hold, it moves fast. People share it without verifying, they react without pausing and even if it's later disproven, the damage is already done, and that's something that I'll never forget. It's always going to stick in the back of my mind. I read every comment on here, every single one, every DM, every piece of feedback, whether it was from someone who's been following me for years or someone who stumbled onto my name in a Twitter thread last week. Some people told me they've lost all respect for me. Some told me they've gained it. Some were just trying to understand my position. Some were just trying to hurt me. I've had anonymous death threats. This week, I've had inboxes filled with hundreds of messages from the same person without even giving a response. It's a lot. 

16:09
I'm not going to pretend like it hasn't taken a toll in some way, but I'm ultimately trying to find balance. I want to make content that matters and I want to stay true to who I am. I want to keep doing things that keep me sane. That's the line I'm walking right now, and I know I'm not going to get it right every single time. I also know I can't please everyone, but I'm also trying, and if you've followed me for a while, or you've even just found me recently, you probably know that I care deeply about calling out bad actors in this space. That's not going to change. I've made it a mission to help people avoid the same mistakes that I made when I was younger Buying pics, falling for scams, losing money that I simply couldn't afford to lose. That doesn't mean I'm perfect. I also make a lot of mistakes, but I do try to lead with honesty and I do believe that experience matters. In every industry on this planet, there are people more qualified than others to speak on certain topics. That doesn't make them arrogant. It makes them informed. 

17:29
Some people have asked whether I would have given someone else the benefit of the doubt if they weren't Flup in this situation. It's a fair question. Maybe I wouldn't have if it was someone that I truly despised. But when people went after Matt Zilbert for allegedly editing an article after a game, I was one of the few people asking for the full context. I gave him a shot to turn over an email that would have proved his innocence. None of that stopped the mob from forming, but I waited. Ultimately, matt couldn't prove his innocence. None of that stopped the mob from forming, but I waited. Ultimately, matt couldn't prove his innocence, so I formed my opinion based off of the new data. I understand how all of this might sound disingenuous to people that I've called out before I get it, but the truth is, believe it or not, I've always been open to new evidence when it rolls in. 

18:32
I put a ton of work into this show. I read, I listen, I try to stay on top of as much as I possibly can, and when we've gotten things wrong on Circleback, I've gone out of my way to correct them. That's not because I'm trying to cover my ass. It's because I take this seriously. We put something in the show and someone messages me a different perspective or tries to clear things up. I do try to incorporate it going forwards. 

19:02
Circle Back is built around the biggest conversations happening on gambling Twitter. We give our opinions, we react to what's being said. Sometimes that's going to rub people the wrong way, but we encourage the conversation. We bring the discussion to Twitter. We engage with the comments below these videos. You don't have to agree on everything we say. That's never been the goal, but we do want it to feel like a space where things can be discussed openly, honestly honestly, excuse me and with the full picture in mind. At some point in time, this channel may also serve as an avenue to Flop, to give his full side of the story, in part because my investigation and a third-party investigation suggest that there is no evidence of collusion through the hand histories in this game, but also because I don't think he was ever afforded the opportunity to state his case without being completely railroaded. 

20:08
That's it. That's my piece. I just wanted to start the show today and clear the air, because there's so much that's out there, some of it true, some of it not. Ultimately, I have to take some accountability as well. Thanks for hearing me out. If you made it this far, I'd truly love to know what you think, not for the algorithm. I genuinely want to know how you feel about all of this? Leave a comment below. Let's try to have a real conversation. Thank you very much. Let's get into the show for this week. 

20:58 - Kirk Evans (Host)
We'll be right back. It's part of the Hammer Betting Network and presented by Underdog. This is the show where we cover the latest and trending stories from gambling Twitter. Perhaps now back to a little bit of normalcy onwards for the show, Back to the usual going through a bunch of topics and back to the normal Tuesday team for this one. We've got Rob Pizzola in the top right corner. He is the CEO here at the Hammer and ready to crack on. We've got also Jeff Feinberg in the bottom left corner, part of Mayo Media Network, Also a resident Chargers superfan. We've also got seasoned NBA better Kirk Evans along. This is the normal crew. How are we feeling? Everybody? The dust is settling on what was a pretty crazy week on gambling Twitter. Rob, you kind of just aired it all out for us, but we're ready to proceed, huh. 

21:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I mean, we started with you saying normalcy I'm not even sure if that's a word, but I don't think this. And we're also back to you wearing regular clothes, jacob. You're not wearing the suit which you were wearing for the previous episode which I found special occasion very peculiar for that episode. 

22:01
So, yeah, a little bit of normalcy. I don't need, I'm now, I'm completely thrown off here, but we're back to normal is what we're trying to say. But I'm uh, yeah, I'm looking to move on from the whole poker scandal and get back into some real things here I'm trying to get back to normal, trying to recover. 

22:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I uh hit my, I hit tommy g levels on the weekend minus no poker, no yelling in the spaces, no sucking up to 24-year-old influencers. So I got a jug of water here trying to come down. I don't get the reps that Tommy gets. So you know, the days after you know they're harder for me. 

22:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Me and Jeff were part of a Mayo Media Network meet and greet in Toronto on the weekend, so a few couple hundred people came out for that. We had a dinner, had an event it. You know you get people around a bar and you have some drinks. They start flowing at you know noon. And yeah, I think me and Jeff are relatively the same age. 

23:03 - Kirk Evans (Host)
We recovery periods a little bit longer nowadays. You're you're past your prime for sure. I think you couldn't hang with a young guns at back-to-back games at bemo field on a sunny saturday afternoon, I don't think but never add the sun into the mix, and it's definitely a recipe for disaster yeah, it ain't for everybody, but let's jump into our topics here today. 

23:20
First of all, we go to Rufus Peabody, who was questioned about AI in sports betting on a recent Bet the Process podcast and the conversation arose in terms of a bet where Rufus I believe there's going to be a bet on this here. Rufus said he would stake one million dollars that he would be able to outperform artificial intelligence in a sports betting competition surrounding golf and he said he would do this current day, 2025, and then said also that maybe things could change for 26, 27 and onwards as artificial intelligence AI takes steps forward, but at this present point, he is prepared to wager $1 million that he could be AI in golf betting. And there were some reactions from gambling Twitter. We had a retired donator at NFL Pinnacle beat, pretty well versed in gambling Twitter, who put up a poll and said will there be an AI by 2032 that takes the prompt make me a good golf price. Make me a good golf price, make me a good golf pricing, slash betting model and outperform 2025. 

24:26
Rufus 55.6% of people said that this could not happen, 30.3% said that yes and 13.1% said AI is the purdy of tech. Well, I think one person voted. Singularity is plural. Just to mess with it. But risk of ruin, podcast said, and at half kelly said this is amazing imagine being able to bet against someone who has been furiously jacking to reddit futurism and has no idea there are professional golf bettors. So, rob uh, on this topic, do you want to kind of make a little bit more sense of what's going on with this one and rufus? 

25:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
yeah, sure, I'll give the context that I didn't listen to this bet the process episode I. I only watched this clip and the other guy there who I'm not familiar with maybe kirk knows who he is he was pretty confident in the ability of ai and the I. I think the idea that an ai could beat rufus at golf modeling in present day and age, I think that's just a misunderstanding of where we're at with technology. Yes, ai is improving. I'm not just talking about chat, gpt or the stuff that the public has access to. There are proprietary tools that can scrape, build and even test models faster than any human being right now. That's real. But none of that means that those models are necessarily better. You still need someone who knows which inputs matter, and that's where rufus um, I mean especially in the golf market. That's what he does better than almost anyone. 

25:57
The real danger with ai and sports betting is this false sense of confidence that it gives people like you. Build something that looks really smart. It gathers wind data, course history, strokes gained, but one mistake, like labeling the wind in kilometers an hour instead of miles per hour, and suddenly you've got Victor Hovland playing like he's teeing off in a hurricane and the entire model goes to shit, and I know this from experience right now trying to work through AI in modeling as well. So there there's still like there's a lot of potential. We're still in the infancy. 

26:30
I thought nfl pinnacle beaters poll um was really interesting. Maybe if we're talking pure number crunching and nothing human gets in the I don't know like. This to me is way more debatable. Like where are we at seven years from now? But even then Rufus isn't standing still either. Right, like Rufus is continuously building out his models further. So I think that that's a better question. Like where are we at seven years from now than nowadays. I think Rufus is an extremely large favorite to win a million dollar bet if that goes through, because I just think there's so many current limitations with ai rufus is ai robotic in nature. 

27:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yes, yeah, like they're in the same. Yeah, it's the same thing. I I'm pro rufus, at least for the immediate and probably short-term extended future, if that makes any sense in phrasing. 

27:27 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yeah, yeah, I think I agree that seven years from now is a much more interesting question. I think Peanutbutter better tweeted like Rufus can use AI, but the AI can't use Rufus Bingo, so that's just already a massive advantage. But also, I think sports betting is a really tough one for ai to beat, not in terms of the math being that hard, but no one like ai essentially uses all public information to try getting an understanding of something, but sports betting is very secretive, so Rufus isn't posting online. You know how do you beat golf markets. There's not very much good information publicly that explains to a large language model or an AI model how it would go about beating sports betting markets. So I think, yeah, in 2025, right now, rufus would absolutely stomp by 2032, I don't know. Ai is like a crazy exponential growth curve, so that one I had a tougher time with, but right now Rufus would absolutely dominate. 

28:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I think with AI, like you can throw really complex problems at AI, but oftentimes you'll get stuff back. That is frankly wrong and like an example I use AI every day. I think it's improved my life in a huge way. I walk around my entire property and I take a video of all the garden beds in the spring because I just moved to a new place and I have no idea what these plants are. What's here? You know what do I do to do? I have to prune these, whatever. What else can I plant in these areas to fill in the gaps? 

29:08
And I get a really nice like consolidated report of boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then you go to buy one of the plants and it says that this plant needs full sun and it wants me to plant it in the shade. So I go back to the ai and say, like, you recommended this plant. Like, oh, apologies for that, I'm sorry about that, you shouldn't put that there. Let me rewrite it. And I think we're still at the phase with AI where it originally just makes too many mistakes. I do think over time, that those will be weeded out. I mean, I would love to revisit this conversation seven years from now, because I think it's going to be very different, but ultimately, I think, as it stands right now, like I want in on the rufus action, let me put it that way I'd be willing to to take a big chunk of that if he was willing, uh, to give up some of that equity in that bet yeah, I, I didn't realize, mr peanut peanut better had said it. 

29:59 - Kirk Evans (Host)
But yeah, like, whatever stage ai is currently at, rufus has access to that today, let alone how good it gets by 2032, et cetera. 

30:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
If Rufus wants to show me what he's got, he can hit me up in my DMs with his US Open stuff this week. But I'm pro Rufus. I'd lay the heavy juice on Rufus here, like the combo of Rufus and the ai, like that's, it's probably crushing it yeah yeah, and also like I didn't exactly understand the parameters of the bet. 

30:33 - Kirk Evans (Host)
But it seemed like the only thing that ai could do is like you just write a prompt and the ai comes up with a model, like if there was a person iterating it at least, maybe you could come to like some sort of reasonable model. But if you just wrote in a prompt like build me a golf model, it would be horrible. Not only wouldn't it be able to beat Rufus, it wouldn't even Smith winning in betting. 

30:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, also, if you add in, like, the layer of complexity that comes with real betting, which is having to bet into the market, it adds like another layer, right, like if it's simply just produce numbers and see who has the better error metrics, okay. But like, once you add in, okay, now you have to bet these things. Well, I'll tell you, rufus has a ton of experience in betting into markets, understanding market timing, all sorts of that stuff, whereas you know, to Kirk's point, the AI is going to train itself on publicly available information. There's just not a lot of that stuff out there as well. So I think that that, even like, further solidifies. I mean, I don't think this is really an argument to be honest. 

31:38 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Even think about the caliber of that publicly available information. 90% of it it's probably coming from. You could say it's coming from losing bettors. 

31:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
People don't really know, so it could be taking wrong information like wouldn't the ai, like rufus would probably be working on off of more books. Even like the ai would probably get stuck on like the made for tv books or the higher level you know offshores. And then I don't know, you know Rufus would have this whole consortium of like streeters and and uh, well, you know what I mean by that, rob. 

32:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, a hundred percent. But like to Jacob's point, too right, I've tried to use AI to write scripts for circles off educational episodes before, and then I get the script and I'm like no, like, no no. 

32:25
Like episodes before, and then I get the script and I'm like not, like, no, no, like we're not going down this path. Right, we're not. We're not there yet. It's just you. You need to be a subject matter expert in order to identify these flaws. And, uh, you know rufus. Anyways, I feel very strongly that rufus is a extremely sharp golf better and that ai is not taking him to task in 2025. 

32:44 - Kirk Evans (Host)
By the way, those scripts are a guide. I don't read off scripts to do the show. In case anybody was wondering, I have a little bit more pride in my work than that. All right, before we go to our next topic, a word from our presenting sponsor, underdog. All right, quick shout out to our friends over at Underdog, because if you've been watching the playoffs but you haven't been using them, then you're missing out on one of the best user experiences in the space. 

33:09
We've tried a lot of different apps over the years and underdog just nails it. The interface is clean, fast and simple, but not in a watered down way. It's intuitive. You log in, you know exactly where to go and you can build entries in seconds without having to dig through five layers of nonsense. It's honestly one of those products where, the more you use it, the more you appreciate how well it's built. Whether you're playing casually or taking it seriously, it just works and you actually want to come back and use it again. We've also heard from a bunch of you and even a few sharp bettors who said the same thing. I didn't expect to actually like this. That says a lot. So if you haven't signed up yet, now is the time. Just click the link in the description and use code CIRCLES on signup and that'll get you up to $1,000 in bonus credit as a new customer. Again, that is promo code CIRCLES, right with the link below. Check it out and let us know what you think. We're betting. You'll be impressed. 

34:00
And there was big news coming out of the NFL this week Aaron Rodgers is signing with the Pittsburgh Steelers. But in a twist of fate, aaron Rodgers was a little bit overshadowed in the news that day. There was a bit of a feud that started on Twitter, which Elon Musk owns, and there was a bit of feud between Elon Musk and Donald Trump. I don't really want to get into the whole weeds of that, but it all originated from a post from Elon Musk essentially saying Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. I think that tweet has now been deleted. 

34:32
But on the topic of Aaron Rodgers, here we have John Brewer's Raptor Egan at Brewer's Raptor who says Aaron Rodgers watching Trump and Musk steal his signing thunder, and it's a picture of him looking through an open hole in a wall upset. And then we also have a few other people poking fun at it. We have Parker Fleming at Statue of War, who used to be a part of our college football team here at the Hammer on the Hit the Books channel says incredible timing. Couldn't have scripted it any better. Benjamin Solak says how is this the exact moment in time that Rodgers decided to announce he's signing? And Brett Coleman says literally the most hilarious possible moment for the Aaron Rodgers news to hit the timeline. It did kind of feel like this has gone under the radar. Is it more so that, like, signing Aaron Rodgers in 2025 isn't as big of a deal as it used to be, or is it just simply he was overshadowed by the feud online? What do you guys think I'll? 

35:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
start. I mean fact of the matter is it felt like their organization, even in ownership, was like this is probably happening over the next few days. It didn't come out of nowhere. You know we're past the draft. It was highly anticipated. So when it happened it was almost like checking a box as opposed to having to acknowledge that it happened. It was like a formality, almost to anyone actually paying attention. 

35:55 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yeah, this one because also on gambling Twitter at this time was like the peak of the poker stuff While the Musk and Trump stuff was happening. I actually actually a couple days later had to think, did rogers sign in pittsburgh or did I imagine that as all these things were happening? Because it was just it was just so much happening. And obviously it makes it even funnier that rogers is like kind of peak conspiracy theorist, loves like talking about the epstein file stuff like that. So it happening all at the same time while all the gambling twitter stuff. It was just truly ridiculous. But yeah, I also agree with jeff, like at this point aaron rogers is like what? The 23rd best quarterback in the nfl who's already pretty much like known to likely be signing with pitchwork. So it really wasn't that big a deal, but it was just funny all of it happening at one at one time it's poetic, is what it is it's. 

36:48 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's a man who constantly craves attention, getting completely drowned out by two billionaires yelling into the void at one another. It would be like if elf put on another boxing match and like everything was working towards that day, and then we have 24 hours to live because there's a meteor coming towards like it, that's it's someone who's constantly looking for attention. 

37:09
Not getting it to me, though, like the real tragedy is. I can't help but think rogers joining the steelers means we're headed for like another year of pittsburgh somehow going. You know, nine and eight, despite being comically mediocre, the entire year like this has been the magic trick for the steelers for a year. They rank years. They rank like 30th in yards per play. They can't convert a third down to save their lives. Somehow they still sneak into the playoffs every year. I just don't get it like. I'm so over the steelers organization grinding out these dumb wins where they have like 190 total yards and they win 13 to 10 because the other team punted on fourth and one from like the opposing 38 yard line. Uh, I am just begging the football gods this year. Let this be the year the magic runs out. That's all like. Yes, this got drowned out completely, but now that I've had time to process it, I just want the Steelers to be bad Like I want this to be the year where they are comically bad. 

38:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Steelers jets week one is awesome yeah it is that might. 

38:23 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I could see Rogers five touchdowns. Yeah, for sure. 

38:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep, definitely there will be some scripts that are called into question for that game, if should Aaron Rodgers have a huge game. 

38:36 - Kirk Evans (Host)
On the topic of the Steelers, just for a little bit more general discussion on the Aaron Rodgers signing how much do you guys think this affects the Steelers? Do you believe that they're going to go above 500? Do you believe that this is going to be a playoff team? Like, Rob, we'll start with you. Like, how much does Aaron Rodgers actually change things for this team? 

38:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think there's a pretty wide range of what Aaron Rodgers could be at this point in his career. Obviously he was a very good quarterback for a long period of time, had an Achilles injury at his age pretty unprecedented, I think. Last year there were some big ups and downs. There were times where he played horribly. There were times where he played really well. So I think there's a pretty wide range on what the Steelers can be. I personally wouldn't bet on them to have success at this point because I think that there's just too many question marks around an aging quarterback and a team that, honestly, even when they've gotten to the playoffs in recent years, they've gotten shellacked every year. They're just they're. They're like the cockroach. They just keep hanging around. You can't seem to kill them, but playoff time they get destroyed. So I wouldn't have too many like bias aside and wanting to see them fail. 

39:39 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I wouldn't have high hopes for the the steelers organization this year yeah, the only reason I think it's impactful is because they had like the worst quarterback room in the league. If they don't have Rogers, so like if you're going from like the 45th best quarterback in the world to the 25th, that's a big upgrade, but it doesn't actually make them good. It just. 

39:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It honestly maybe hurts them in the sense of maybe they win seven games instead of like four and get a top draft back right it allows them to be what they have been yes, instead of what rob hopes they would have been had they, I guess, not needed this, but yeah, I mean they, they're desperate for it win total sits at eight and a half. 

40:22 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Uh juice towards the over. So we'll see what happens, but it seems perfectly balanced once again for the steelers. Let's jump into our next topic here. Uh, we're discussing legal versus offshore space and a little bit of what the purpose and goal of legalizing sports betting was. So, uh, jeff benson of circa, who we've talked about many times on the show, had this to say on the matter Says the goal of legalized wagering was to bring bets from the offshore gray and black markets into the regulated onshore space. 

40:52
Yet with every mind boggling decision from both regulators and politicians, we continue to seemingly push money back offshore and take massive steps backward. It is simple Provide a good regulated environment for both bookies and bettors to operate and reap the rewards for a fantastic product offering and all the tax benefits slash revenue that comes with it. However, greedy, illogical and uneducated decisions from these folks have forced some sportsbooks out of business or to sweeps. Lessened competition, made market access damn near impossible, all for some short term tax gains. That is going to burn out a lot of the industry and its patrons. Hopefully things change, although it doesn't seem like we are headed in a positive direction when the decision makers at the top are all absolutely clueless, which is being kind. A few replies from this one. First of all, the Philly Godfather had this to say how would you describe Philly Godfather Rob for anybody who doesn't know him? 

41:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's a tout nowadays. I don't really keep up with what he's got going on. I haven't followed him in several years, but he was one of the more well-known touts, I think in the mid-2010s with his group of quote-unquote animals that were selling plays. You know you had the seal and the penguin and all those these guys that were were selling. But yeah, I think he was pretty widely respected at one point in the industry and then eventually just turned to to selling picks for well this is what he had to say. 

42:19 - Kirk Evans (Host)
He wasn't happy about what Jeff Benson said. He said Jeff must live in a fairytale land. The goal of legalized gambling was to generate as much tax revenue for the government as possible. It's a shame that Circa Sports is a speck of lint on FanDuel and DraftKings balls because Circa runs a cute sportsbook. Captain Jack Andrews took a little bit of a different approach, kind of analyzing it. It says states have two paths. One, they can regulate sports betting as a viable form of commerce in the state and foster a competitive, fair environment to supercharge capitalism. Two, they can treat it as a sin and tax it as such. Unfortunately, each state so far has been a big number. Two with the shit emoji. Rob, I think you've consulted for sports books in the past. What's your take on this whole situation? 

43:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well obviously there's some inherent bias here with the characters that are involved with this topic. I think Jeff's point is right on States were supposed to bring money onshore by building something that's competitive and sustainable. And to Philly Godfather's point, I mean, he's kind of saying the same thing like generating tax revenue. Yeah, I guess that's also a goal in regulation here. But at some point or another you need to consistently get people betting into the regulated market in order to generate that tax revenue. So I think it's kind of contradictory in what he said there. 

43:47
Captain Jack, weighing in with the poop emoji, I get it. I'm gonna toe the line here. Right, like, I think fanduel runs a completely different business model. They're, they're not circa. Circa is not trying to be fanduel. Fanduel is not trying to be circa. Right, fanduel is trying to be mass market. Um, operationally excellent, circa is doing something meaningful for bettors who actually care about getting down. And when people want to mock Circa as being small, they're missing the point. Right, it's like mocking a high-end steakhouse because they're not the Cheesecake Factory. Right, it's comparing apples to oranges. 

44:22
I think at the end of the day, jeff's point stands right. If you want competition in the space, you want to build the best market possible, you can't have all of these limitations that are currently existing in it. Part of that goes to the fact that the people who are regulating it frankly I would question their ability to make an informed opinion and regulate this type of market. So I do stand with Jeff's point. I get a lot of it. Philly Godfather's point. I think it kind of just almost backs up what Jeff is trying to say as well yeah, that's exactly what goal of getting tax revenue. 

45:11 - Kirk Evans (Host)
So those two things are kind of the same in a way, like maybe not the exact same of like you could argue that if you're trying to only generate tax revenue, you can tax as much as possible, but again, then that's just back to Jeff's point of OK, then if you do that, you're going you can like tax as much as possible, but again then that's just back to Jeff's point of okay, then if you do that you're going to drive more people offshore. So those two things just kind of go hand in hand. It's like where are you going to get to on the scale of what's the best tax rate? You can have to keep the most regulated to keep the most people on shore to generate the most tax revenue. Because if you're taxing at 50% but then you're driving so many people offshore, you're gonna generate less tax revenue than if you're taxing at 25% but 100% of the betting is regulated onshore. So those two are kind of the same thing and that's something the regulators need to find out but we've talked about on the show a lot of times. 

46:02
The regulators truly don't have a clue. But can you pull up the Captain Jack tweet, like the point one here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they regulate sports betting as a viable form of commerce in the state and foster a competitive, fair environment to supercharge capitalism. That's like a statement from someone who's so deep in the weeds like no one thinks that sports betting is gonna supercharge capitalism and like it. I think treating it as a sin and as a tax is probably right. Like you don't really want people sports betting, you do kind of want to treat it as a sin, like you know, alcohol, like smoking. But pretty much the goal is if people are going to do it, regulate it so you can tax it. I actually don't even understand what he's saying there with point one I I think just, and I'm just. 

46:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I I don't know for certain either, but captain jack's involved in a lot of better advocacy stuff, right. So I think a lot of people who are involved in better advocacy often view things as very cut and dry. It's either this Avenue or the other Avenue and there's nothing in between. And listen, I agree that a lot more can be done about the state of the industry, but I think that there's some assumptions being made with that. The number one there that assumes that, like, none of that is being done right now, like that, we're not moving towards this particular direction. 

47:32
I think there's been a lot of competition in the space, some of it fair, some of it unfair. Um, honestly, at the end of the day it's. It's a little bit disillusioning, though, just to, you never want to see something a space regulated by people who don't have the and again, I'm making assumptions here but, based off of the decision making that's made and made along the way here, seems like they don't have the subject matter expertise in really legitimately trying to regulate this space, and maybe you know what that does. Get back to philly godfather's point, where a lot of decisions are made with sports books in mind rather than sports books and betters in mind. So I can see how everyone here does have some sort of point, but broadly are kind of agreeing as well on on what the argument is I don't think they've done much good at all. 

48:24 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
As the sophisticated square here, the obviously more casual player, I see very little benefit to anything they've done. I think they've made it actually far more toxic on almost every level, from the advertisements to the, the, the scammers to the customer service. And they have allowed by how bad they are. They have allowed, they have allowed certain other entities who are not in the regulated place to even lower their standards, like their quality control, yeah, like if these people aren't like you know, because we're all desperate. They're like the airlines, like we're beholden to them right, like we need to get somewhere, we want to go somewhere. There's this experience or trip we want to do. You know they pick the time, they pick how we're gonna do it. It feels their customer service is dog dick. It feels much similar on every front. You know, rob, there's dispensaries all over town. I still got a guy who just shows up at my door with a little satchel. 

49:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay, I've moved on to the dispensaries though, jeff. 

49:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Nah, better prices, prices, better service, better. Trust me, this stuff's the the bees. I I wouldn't. I mean, if you don't have the quality, our relationship is severed. Um, so yeah, I don't like, I don't like. Yeah, it's little bit. Like you know, there's still a better, there's still better ways to go about it. I think they have been horrible for not only gamblers but horrible for society. So, obviously, if you notice, my head's been down a lot, not feeling great trying to find the golf bets that I want to make for the US Open this week, so I missed a lot of this, but, like Jeff's tweeting all. But I feel it. I feel it. It sucks. 

50:30 - Kirk Evans (Host)
So it was legalized April 1st 2022, was it, I think, in Ontario at least where we are. So it was a pretty interesting time for me because I got hired by Bedstamp on March 28th and I was kind of a complete square when I got hired. So I was kind of in the thick of it when legalization began and just my perception of what legalization was supposed to bring to the industry just feels like it's fallen short in a lot of ways and I never really got to experience the unregulated market to its full potential at the time. But to me it doesn't really feel like there's been improvements that have been made since regulation has hit. Do you feel like the space is better or worse since then, rob? 

51:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, I think it's better, Listen, we could go back to the time where everything was offshore and paperhead and I could write you a laundry list of all the problems that exist in those spaces. Let's not pretend that we didn't have funds seized by sportsbooks for no reason whatsoever, that I had to show a passport and birth certificate to withdraw from a book and it would take eight weeks to do so, sometimes longer. There's lots of challenges with that space, but ultimately, when you're betting in a legalized market, as we are now, and a lot of other issues persist, you're less reluctant to just leave the offshore space entirely or leave, you know, your local bookie entirely, because problems still exist in this type of market. And until that and listen, like, a lot of the problems exist because the regulations allow them to exist. I think that's the most important piece here. Right, it's like you know, I I joke all the time with kirk, our resident sportsbook stand. 

52:22
I also stand for sportsbooks when I feel it's it's right, and in a lot of instances I will say what do you expect the book to do in this situation? Right, they're allowed to operate like this, so they're going to operate like this, and I think that's where regulation has ultimately failed, right? Um, and personally, for me, I still bet. I mean, maybe I'm the I'm not the right example because, um, I'm on the pro betting side of things and I'm not, you know, a square wreck, but I know friends who still bet in the offshore space, still bet with local bookies. You want to get rid of that. You have to improve the standard of the regulated space and it's just not there. It's just not there just yet. Yeah, I think like that. 

53:03 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I think it's probably better. Yeah, I think it's probably better. The space is better if you're better, like you have more options. There's been like a lot more advancement, but I think as a society as a whole it's probably been worse because sure, we've brought some tax revenue, but we've probably brought like the entire goal of all these sports bets is to get as many sports bettors as possible. So like the positives of the taxes is probably negated society as a whole for just how many more people are betting generally. So yeah, it's probably done harm for society. And like the uh weed example I actually think is a good one of like there's not a commercial for weed every 30 seconds on every channel in the world, but there is for gambling now and that didn't used to exist before we go to our next topic here, just want to remind you guys, if you're enjoying the show so far, you can smash that like button. 

54:02 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Does help drive up engagement. Get us on some more recommended pages. Also, make sure you're subscribed to the channel for shows like this, with this crew that we have today every tuesday and with the other set of crew that we have for the friday shows two shows a week plus. We're working to get the thursday shows back here on circles off. We're working on the studio, trying to get things up and running to be back in person very, very soon. So make so, make sure, along for the ride. If you're listening to the audio form, rate and review five stars. 

54:27
Next topic is Adam Chernoff leaving. Right Angle Sports Says this after three years my time with Raspix has come to an end, learned a lot about professional betting and handicapping, more about professional betting and handicapping than I ever imagined I could, and thankful for the opportunity to work with Ed, jeff, mike Travis, the rest of the team. So Chernoff has left right-angle sports and naturally we saw a reaction coming. We had somebody message in A-group chat. I just put it in here how long before GRP claims he brought Adam down after he tracked him. If you don't know who Adam Chernoff is, he's a very notable but polarizing figure, I would say, in the sports betting space and GRP has made attempts in the past to maybe for lack of a better word expose him, but has tracked his bets, trying to make him look a lot worse off. And I'll have the time. I do have the time stamp for this one On 11.16, chernoff sent this out 11.38, this message hit the group chat and then, at 3.34 pm a bit longer than I think we thought it would take GRP wins, says Adam Chernoff posted on his Twitter account. 

55:37
He's no longer with RAS Sports Picks. I wonder if RAS was tired of getting fooled by Adam, just like Mitch and Pauly have been fooled by him the last few years. Adam's record on the show last season was a disaster and GRP tracked Adam's bets from the show that he did as part of a part of VEASAN on Follow the Money and apparently the record was 51 and 77. Yeah, what do we think about this? Did GRP have anything to do with this relationship parting ways? What do we think about this? Did GRP have anything to do with this relationship parting ways? What do we think? 

56:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think GRP I don't think it had anything to do with it causing ways, but like a marriage that dissolves, it was, I think this thing. That was like a very annoying something like over, just like this thing that wouldn't go away, or grp it rattled adam a bit. Um, I don't think it was like any like in the top five, but I think it led to like maybe some relationships deteriorating, uh, because it was a non-stop thing and like grp got a one up, so that had to be like toxic for the whole relationship yeah I think my favorite version of grp is is tracking grp I. 

56:56 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I kind of wish he just did this always. Like there are so many people out there, it's my, it's my least favorite kirk? 

57:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
you don't because you didn't work for bet stamp at the time where grP was pimping that he had a better product than Betstamp because he could track them all in his notebook. Those were the days, yeah. 

57:13 - Kirk Evans (Host)
But, the thing is I guess the problem is that the way he tracks is like Adam will say like oh, I like this number and he'll track that as a bet. That's not necessarily a bet, but like I do think it's kind of like actually funny and like not like actually is kind of good, of like people are out there saying things but not tracking their picks. Grp is kind of the only guy with the time who's willing to do that, but I, yeah, I don't think Adam and Rass parted ways because of GRP. 

57:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, but on that point of the GRP thing, I think it's good if you are able to remain impartial, right? Like clearly, grp does not like Adam the same way he doesn't like Kelly in Vegas or Pamela Maldonado or whoever else Like he has a history of going at certain people. So if you're going to track them on a show where they're where the host is, like quickly on the spot, you got 10 seconds. Who do you think is winning this week, chiefs or bills? And he says I like the bills and then they lose. Like that that's not in the interest of actually tracking, right, that's that's like balls and strikes fairly as it. 

58:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Like he had a legitimate bit like I don't know what the word is like a like a legitimate content bit in sports gambling by tracking, churn off. Um. I'm a fan of adam, but obviously he's polarizing, yeah, but he he just was calling pitches, strikes that were a foot outside and that wasn't fair to your. He's on a show. They ask him about the big game of the week or a primetime game. That aren't his picks and he's given a pick. But George is holding him to that and, like I said, I give Adam credit in a sense, because we know a lot of people who would go on those shows that are entertainment and wouldn't give the audience a pick for that like preeminent game of the week or that primetime game. So it's kind of like a no win then for Adam, because if you don't, you're annoying, you're annoying more people than G. Then then pissing off GRP or whatever. I might've mixed that up at the end, but you feel me. 

59:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I know what you're saying. For me, this whole situation like outside of the grp stuff it personally felt to me like one of those moves that I felt was coming for a while now. Like I I talked to, I leave adam a voice note maybe once every three months on whatsapp. We check in see what's going on, like you know, just just friendly chat. Uh, despite what we you know the back and forth I've had with ed from the right angle sports twitter account, I do chat with jeff pretty regularly, like they don't confide in me about how things are going at work. But it this, it never felt like a good marriage to me and I'm just saying this very candidly. Right, like adam has built a large following. It's very clear to me that RAS is trying to use that following in some capacity. Right, and whether you like Adam or not, and there's people, I mean he's polarizing, he has a distinct voice. But right angle sports with how we generally think of that brand, let's say pre-turnoff and post-turnoff it's like trying to merge a hedge fund with a TikTok channel. Right, it just never felt like it was the right fit. Like Adam is out there doing these media hits, he's rolling out free bets in a telegram channel, newsletters, forums. He's sometimes saying things that I would have considered to be very off-brand for what I thought right-angle sports would have typically said. So to me I don't view this as like a falling out as much as it's like a natural uncoupling of two brands that I think it just didn't work right Like it just didn't. 

01:01:03
In terms of Adam he's's polarizing, I know a lot of sharp bettors aren't fans, especially when he's releasing stuff early in the week on markets that aren't mature yet. I think that's a very fair criticism. But I also do think he's genuinely one of the better storytellers in the space. Like he knows how to hold an audience, which is pretty rare in this content world. He knows how like which topics are, which is pretty rare in this content world. He knows how like which topics are gonna hit home and what people want to listen to. 

01:01:30
And personally I listen to him Doesn't mean I agree with everything In fact I usually don't but there's value in that too, and at the end of the day, I'd much rather have Adam in the content space than 99% of the influencers that are out there currently giving out five-leg parlays with zero context. So I think he'll just toe the line a little bit better, he'll land somewhere solid, whether it's doing his own thing or with another org. But just from the outside looking in to me, it just never really felt like a natural fit. So when the news dropped I mean candidly I wasn't very surprised. 

01:02:09 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yeah, I think Adam's podcast is good and he's good at giving like. The information he seeks is solid, but his conclusions I find I nearly always disagree with. 

01:02:36 - Kirk Evans (Host)
So I agree with that. He's better at content than betting, in my opinion at least much easier to know what's an official bet. It makes it so much easier for you to know how this show is doing, and there's a special product that bet stamp has right now. That's going to help with your betting. 

01:02:49 - Betstamp PRO (Host)
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01:03:40 - Kirk Evans (Host)
That is BetStampcom forward slash circles off at D-Gen Weekly shared this video of former NFL player Golden Tate talking about his betting endeavors. He says can't spell degenerate without Golden Tate, and it's a video of Golden Tate essentially going through his top-down betting process, how he looks for value and looks for EV. He also mentioned that it's at the point where he has so many sportsbooks that he has to use a vpn to bet into different states. So it kind of feels like golden tate I, I think knows enough to to win betting top down, but it doesn't understand the industry to know enough of how he's supposed to talk about it. I, I think, is the way I'll label it, and jack max cfb says this. 

01:04:26
I'm sure FanDuel was thrilled to hear Golden Tate talking about VPN betting on their podcast. Yeah, I would say the same here. What do we think here? Former NFL player can build up a pretty large bankroll to start. Do we think, based on this conversation that Golden Tate had on this, that he would be in the position to be a winning better? What do you think, rob? Yeah, like. 

01:04:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So the feedback on this clip is overwhelmingly negative. Right, even even dj and weekly's comment about like can't spell golden tate without degenerate. I mean golden tate. That clip is like essentially I I'm gonna be careful with the way I say this, but it's very close to the concepts that were taught in the masterclass that I was a part of. Right, like he's not an idiot. I mean like he starts talking about 20 to 30 games a day, which it sounds like we're headed straight for a degenerate island right there. Right, like I'm betting 20 to 30 plays a day. 

01:05:23
But then he starts describing line shopping, expected value, like he's using an odds comparison analogy, using the water bottles. Like this isn't some guy that's like I bet the Cowboys because I like their uniforms. Right, like what we would expect, maybe, of an ex-athlete. So I mean I don't know why people are ripping him. Jack Mack's line is great about the FanDuel stuff, but you know what line is great about the FanDuel stuff? But you know what? 

01:05:52
I kind of find it refreshing hearing a former athlete talk betting correctly and like real. He wasn't pretending to be sharp, he wasn't selling picks, he's just a guy who bets, shops lines, understands why value matters, and I mean, even when he started talking about the VPN stuff, he kind of walked it back pretty quickly like someone slid a lawyer's business card across the table or something like that. But in terms of real talk, he explained the concept of top-down betting better than like 95% of the industry, even higher. I think. He's sharper than half the people who are going after him, more than that yelling at him on Twitter. So I thought it was like kind of refreshing. It was a complete opposite of what I expected to see when I watched that clip. 

01:06:32 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yes, I totally agree, Like the fact that it said you can't spell degenerate without Golden Tate, like it was very non-degenerate. He clearly knew what he was talking about, but I found the clip very confusing. I just Googled it career earnings of $56 million. 

01:06:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

01:06:49 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Like why is Golden Tate? 

01:06:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
grinding top-down edges. 

01:06:57 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I'm saying he's a good bankroll to start at least. 

01:06:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, but didn't he show like donuts? 

01:07:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Sorry, what was he showing Donuts? 

01:07:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Didn't Golden Tate steal donuts? Oh no, here we go. 

01:07:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
If he did. 

01:07:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, like, come on, it's like he stole honey buns or something. 

01:07:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

01:07:15 - Kirk Evans (Host)
That was in 2010. Yeah, that's what. 

01:07:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm saying as well You're still making pro NFL money. 

01:07:22 - Kirk Evans (Host)
It was for the love of the game. At the time, it's still for the love of the game. 

01:07:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Hey, 3 am I just saying, like he's clearly a guy who's a rat like wants to get the best number possible there you go, like value personified, as a friend used to say. 

01:07:39 - Kirk Evans (Host)
If I clearly don't save on the deuce well, sorry, I'm reading just the first article I got when I googled golden tate donutondad. Apparently he was coming out of Notre Dame for the second round pick, so it's possible the checks hadn't hit the bank just yet. You might get drafted, you might get a signing bonus and salary, but you may not have that money yet In 3 am. You want a snack? 

01:08:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Anyhow, he's a proven value hunter. Yes, yes. 

01:08:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, that's it. It. It's exactly what the video was. But, like, seriously, the amount that the people that are dunking on him I'm not going to name names right, there's a ton. I think that video has like one and a half million views. I'm looking at the replies. I know a lot of people replying. The people dunking on him they have. They're not within their right to dunk on a guy who's actually trying to find plus EV plays Making 56 million in the league. Sure, I can't tell you, kirk, his motivations for betting nowadays. He does say he's limited at a lot of books. Maybe he was trying to get hundreds of thousands down. I have no idea. I don't know what the motivations are, but people are dunking on him for what is like a mildly educational video, that is. I don't think people even understand what he's talking about no, I agree with you completely there. 

01:08:55 - Kirk Evans (Host)
But exactly like okay, sure, at the start I could see maybe he was trying to bet big and find value, but, like now, he's limited on accounts. Is he betting into like a 10% fan duel? Is he getting like P2s? I want to know more about this operation. I would love to as well. 

01:09:14 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I think a lot of it is to the amount of bets he's doing a day. Did he say in the video, like 20 to 30 bets a day or something? And I think for most people that would be like a tell. It's like somebody says, like we talked about it last week, like if you're betting on the WNBA you have to call the number, if you're making 20, 30 bets a day, you have to call the number type thing, whereas like no, if you're top-down betting which is what he's doing here and he's just explaining like he's very excited to explain it Like for anybody most people would know, but not everybody would know watching this you want to eliminate the variance by adding more volume to your betting. The higher the amount of volume, the less variance. So he's approaching everything correctly and it's like he's discovered fire. But for a lot of people they haven't made that sort of discovery yet. So good for him for trying to share educational stuff. Maybe keep the VPN stuff to yourself. 

01:10:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, you don't want to publicly comment on stuff. 

01:10:09 - Kirk Evans (Host)
That yeah, like that basically Absolutely not Our final topic. Here before the chopping block we have Gabriel Morenci, a Canadian sports broadcaster, who had this to say. He said my girl invited people from my condo to come Nightmare. I barely tolerate my fianc people from my condo to come nightmare. I barely tolerate my fiance at games I legit, rather go alone. I told her never invite people without telling me again. I just waited for them for 10 minutes because they wanted food, Not my problem. Fuck, what is this in reference to? I couldn't quite. I couldn't quite grasp this. He was going to a CFL game. Cfl game. 

01:10:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, he was going to a CFL game. Cfl game yes, he was going to go with his fiance but she invited other people from the condo as well to tag along. 

01:10:52 - Kirk Evans (Host)
And then he said Anyone that knows Gabe. 

01:10:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He's very regimented. In the same way he's on his own time. It's almost like when you are a host that does as many hours as him. Former radio host, serious local in in different markets. It's just like that clock and he knows how to beat that clock, but he only cares about himself. Uh, and I'm not even saying that it's like a negative, although it can come off. It's, it's um, you know, and yeah, he's all about time. I used to work with gabe. You could fuck up a lot, you just had to be on time, yes, and you could show up the next day, as long as you showed up the next day on time. I'll take it a step further, though. I had some friends bail on me for a game last week, like you bail on your nephew. 

01:11:43
Beautiful Jays game and I went to the ballpark with Jason. Yep, not Beautiful Jays game and I went to the ballpark with Jason. 

01:11:48
Yep, not my nephew. Nope, could pass, as your nephew, though, could Listen. It's a nice time. He wanted to do this, like nine hot dogs, nine beers and nine innings. And I told him, rob, I told him in the first inning don't even start it, I'm not staying for nine innings. Yeah, first inning, don't even start it, I'm not staying for nine minutes. Like you'd just be wasting your hey, you'd be eating these. 

01:12:12
Revolting like they have these dollar hot dogs on the night they went. You don't like them, they are revolting Like one. I wouldn't expect that from you. No, I'll pay double outside for a street more. They're like these. I don't even know how long they cook them. They're these little things. They honestly they're revolting. Anyhow, I guess. Yeah, listen, I'm 40 years old, rob, so my friends have like jobs and kids and they don't care to show up for game 60 of the Blue Jays on a Tuesday. That's not worth the heat from their wives. I hit up my friends who are like divorced. It's like Tuesday night, dad dinner every other weekend and Tuesdays, and then. So I had to go to Jason. I say that like it's last resort. I had a great time. 

01:13:02
It's a really good time I enjoyed Jason. I'd go to the game again. I think it's key, though I need like a 27-year-old who can answer the bell like that, because normally I'd say listen, this is a public service announcement. I've been going a long time, but this is important. It's good to have divorce around you. What I mean by that is you don't want to be divorced, happily married, married three kids, no sign of divorce, but you want a couple of your buddies divorced, so like they're just available, right? 

01:13:37
or single jeff or single but sure most of my friends are and you want you want, like one of your wife's really good friends to have a horrible divorce. Hear me out. Then. She just hears about how big of a piece of shit someone is, how bad of a father they are, and I am, just like me, doing my normal baseline, which is okay below average dad, gets lifted up tenfold, holy shit. Let me tell you, all you guys out there, if your wife's good friend is in a bad divorce, you are going to look like a goddamn hero. That's it. That's my advice. You can't control it, but if it happens, you luck the fuck out. 

01:14:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I love that Solid foundational take there from Jeff Jacob. The second Marenzi tweet I think I resonated with that one, can you remember? 

01:14:36 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yeah. So he says I legit have like four dimes on this game and dude is telling me I prefer the NFL. Good for you, I move seats actually. 

01:14:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay. So like I totally get that a lot more right, like I've lived through this right, when I was in my early 20s I was at a sports book in Vegas where I was sent down for the score for March Madness. I'll never forget the game. It was Butler versus Notre Dame, first round NCAA tournament. I got 200 bucks on the game. The guy next to me has five bucks on the game. He's going nuts rooting for the other side. Eventually I just turned. 

01:15:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I said like what's your ticket worth? He says five bucks. 

01:15:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm like here's five bucks, shut up, like I don't want to hear this because that that can like any live event. Whether you're at the game or you're rooting in a sports book. It's great until someone else is making your blood boil and honestly, I think gabe is right here. Some games you just need to go solo or you got to go with people who understand the stakes involved. 

01:15:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I don't he was also on tilt, rob. He was on tilt and I saw on twitter he bet uh two grand on the live second half total. That crushed every drive in the second half, scored a touchdown, crushed the over. So like gabe was on tilt as people were like bashing the game around him, but he's a cfl super fan and I like the cfl. But you can't watch the cfl like thinking that like you're gonna see josh allen, yes, like you have to sort of like respect what you are seeing. You can't go in there and be like josh allen was, kill these guys like okay but, but. 

01:16:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But to like gabe's point like, if I've got money on the game, don't ask me what I think about the nachos, you know. Like I don't care, right, like I don't want to engage in the conversations that other people like. This is where there's a disconnect. Right, you're gonna go to a game, you're gonna bet on it, you're gonna watch it, you're gonna sweat it. Like I don't want to be involved in the the minutiae of the other conversations around me. So I, I totally get there. I've been there before. I, I take my wife to a game. We have friends coming out like I I hate to say this, like I may call me an asshole or whatever, but you know, they bring their kids to the game. The kids are crying in my. I'm like I don't want this. I didn't sign up for this, I just wanted to come and watch the baseball game and sweat my own bed. 

01:16:57 - Kirk Evans (Host)
So I've been there, I and I totally resonate with that yeah, I think being on tilt is a very sensitive time and things like things can piss you off so easily if you get on a bad tilt, if you're like there have been sundays where I've had really bad days and then it's a four o'clock slate and one of my buddies is cheering for, you know, a reception because he needs point five points on his fantasy team and I'm down thousands of dollars and it I'm losing my mind. So I totally get that tweet. 

01:17:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Do you understand? Do you think he's angry at people talking nachos if it isn't 7-3 at the end of the second quarter and he hammered the over? Like, do you think he gives a shit if it's a high-scoring first quarter and dudes are talking about nachos beside him? No, like it's all about. Yes, I get it. When you're gone, things are frustrating. You got to go to your safe space. You want to be alone and there's a lot of annoying people that, I'm sure, go to sporting events that you would hope to be able to move seats away from. The good thing about a CFL game a lot of open seats, you can find one. 

01:18:06 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yep, and he does Not that I'm opposed to this. I haven't done it. I would do it, though. Have you guys ever done a solo sporting event? 

01:18:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh yeah. 

01:18:14 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yeah. 

01:18:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I used to have yeah, I mean I lived a couple blocks from the Rogers Center, right around where Kirk is now, and I used to go into like I used to probably go to 40 James home games a year. My wife hates baseball, so I was there all the time. 

01:18:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'll go to an afternoon J game. I'll sit there. I love the popcorn. I'll eat a whole bag of popcorn, stay for an inning. After I finish, walk out of there. I love pro baseball. 

01:18:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I could do it. I'm more likely to go to a baseball game. 

01:18:43 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I'm more likely to go to a baseball game alone than a movie which to go to a baseball game alone, than a um, than a movie, which is also fine. Yeah, I guess for me, like I have a fiance, so I'm going somewhere, she'll be first choice. 

01:18:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I have a lot of friends in the city who are single, so I I guess there wouldn't be a situation where I just would have to, I guess jacob, you're young, respectfully yeah I hate to say this to you, like I wish you the best in your relationship and your eventual marriage and stuff, but there's going to be a time where you're just going to need some alone time and you're going to want to do a few things solo every now and then, and sporting events are beautiful for that. 

01:19:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You get older and you just don't even care to compromise much. You're like I just want to do that, I'm going to do that, and then you go right. You spend a day in the life of like table for one, al Borland. 

01:19:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep. 

01:19:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
That's it. 

01:19:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Jacob has no idea who Al Borland is, don't know who that is or doesn't either. 

01:19:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think the point makes sense. 

01:19:39 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Let us know in the comments if you would solo or raw hog a sporting event. Just go on your own and maybe sweat out some bets and maybe tell us a story about an example that Rob spoke of, a time you were sweating a bet and somebody was giving you a hard time. Would love to react to those, potentially on next week's show, but the time has come. We're at the chopping block for today and it wasn't as long of a show as normal. We have quite a few things lined up for the chopping block, so let's dig into it. First of all, we have Blesbets, who is courtside at the Pacers Thunder Game 2. 

01:20:15
We've made it known on this channel that Blesbets does have a very large position. Well, not a large position per se, but 120, 12,500 plus 12,500 on the Pacers to win the NBA championship has $1,000 on it to win $125,000. He's documented that. We've talked about it on the show. He was courtside at the most recent Pacers game to watch the Pacers ended up getting smoked in that game, but was on the broadcast at one point. We have a few people who shared it. We originally had Uncle Mal Betts who showcased it. Blesbets posted a video and mr at mr shithouse where he said find someone who looks. Either way, blesbets looks at dort because, uh, he was pretty entranced in his very oversized pacers hat. He's pretty entranced looking at lou dort, their court side, but uh, this is pretty entertaining. 

01:21:04 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say. Why, like the guy can afford courtide tickets to an nba finals game, can he not pay for a hat that fits? 

01:21:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
you. You're missing the size is too big. 

01:21:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You're missing the part of the bit or is that an? Airport store that only had one size no, that guys. 

01:21:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
This it's the bit I'm gonna give him. I'm gonna give him flowers right now. This is elite level marketing. All right. This guy showed up on the scene. He built some buzz. People got bored, he flamed out for a little bit and then he figured out how to make some noise again, like that's the playbook. Right now he's on the vegas dave model and I'm not necessarily saying he's scamming, although in my opinion like I haven't been able to look at every play he releases the optics don't look good, but he is buying attention. You get more value from being seen courtside than you ever do from the seat itself. It's like the age old sports betting content hustle right, look like you're crushing it at all times. Those hats, of course he knows he has to know no one wears a hat that large, unless they're intentionally trying to get attention. 

01:22:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It's like the mention, with the empty, no furniture. Yes, he went to the Lids. 

01:22:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Clearance section dude, and he said I got anything that's going to make people ask if I'm okay. And that's what he got with this hat. Right, like that's it. He understands how to get modern day attention. In 2025, attention is a form of currency. He's not the best bettor in the world, but he's one of the best marketers in the space right now. 

01:22:41 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Absolutely agree. Next topic we had the finals of the French Open, which occurred on the weekend. We're talking about it Monday. This will be out on Tuesday, Probably why I didn't make a full-scale segment but ridiculous game that lasted five hours 29 minutes. 

01:22:56
Alcaraz came back from two sets down to win 3-2. An incredible comeback and not so incredible tiebreaker. In the end, it seems, Sinner kind of ran out of gas. Anyways, at Joko underscore, united sk says uh, novak at 38 challenge sinner more than prime alcaraz. History books will remember that this is when I don't know if this is when sinner was up to nothing or when sinner was up 3-1 and up 40. Love to go 6-3 and win the third, sorry, sorry, win the fourth set, win the match 3-1. Yes, Sinner had three championship points on, I believe, Alcaraz's serve, but still three championship points at one point. Kalshi showcases it here that Yannick Sinner at that point had a 97.6% win rate. From that position it swung very drastically the other direction when Carlos Alcaraz did make that comeback and eventually did pummel him in the fifth set. Tiebreaker Nick Goff had this to say though Tennis matches shouldn't last five and a half hours, however good they are. And that's the hill I'll die on. Rob your thumbs down in this take, Bad take. 

01:24:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I mean it was a five and a half hour match but, like most people only watched a couple hours of it, I would say, and you wouldn't have, you wouldn't have had that level of excitement because of the way that the entire match transpired. Right, I, I don't watch tennis as much as I used to. I'll admit it. I didn't tune into the french open final until I got a message from uh isaac in our group chat for circle back that said you know you guys should tune into the French Open final. Until I got a message from Isaac in our group chat for Circle Back that said you know you guys should tune into this. So I missed the first couple hours. 

01:24:33
When I did tune in, instantly hooked, like peak tennis, true high stakes, grand slam, five set tennis that's hard to beat, like the shot making, the exhaustion you're seeing from players, the back and forth momentum swings it's like a psychological chess match and even as a casual these days I found myself like looking forward to every point in that match. That just doesn't happen in most sports nowadays. You don't get that kind of purity from games that have like tv timeouts and challenges and booth reviews and stuff like that. So, personally, loved every minute of what I watched. And if two players are that evenly matched and the match is that, good fuck, let it go five hours like it's so rare that that actually happens. 

01:25:16 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Uh, I I enjoyed every second of what I watched in the french open final yeah, I thought it was one of the best tennis matches or even sporting events I've ever seen. If someone wanted to argue that the majors should only be five sets or three out of five, like starting in the quarters or the semis, I could get on board. But I don't know how you can watch that match and think, oh, tennis shouldn't be five hours. It was literally one of the best sporting events I've ever seen. 

01:25:48 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

01:25:53 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I think the length of the match kind of just makes it almost more enjoyable in a way, because tennis is so incredibly taxing on your body. So to be able to do that for as long as they do and like they're like tennis, there's not a lot of breaks, there's not a lot of commercial breaks, like there's no half time like in other sports, like for them to be able to compete at that level it's. It's just incredible to like see some of the shots go. How the hell can he make that shot at this stage of the match? Anything to add from you, jeff? 

01:26:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
so I was watching that on and off and then, obviously, to the point where it became pretty um, exhilarating and and, like many, were hooked, had I seen that tweet about you know the matches shouldn't go that long. I would have quote, tweeted that this could only be written by a man who's being dragged to Ikea by his wife right now in like the middle of the fourth, because no one who actually didn't have to get up could have written that because no one who actually didn't have to get up could have written that. 

01:26:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, also, like for for me, I didn't want the match to end right like when, when the the final tie break was as one-sided as it was, I was kind of like really just hoping that it could keep going and going and going like that to me, is the sign of peak sports. When you don't want, I can't, I can't see sports. I can't imagine someone wanting that to end and not wanting to enjoy more of that is kind of what I'm getting at. 

01:27:15 - Kirk Evans (Host)
There used to be that rule where the fifth set couldn't end in a tiebreak. Somebody had to win by two. It's Wimbledon. 

01:27:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think, I think the Wimbledon final is like that the fifth set can't be won in a tie. 

01:27:25 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I'm pretty sure it's oh, is that just wimbledon now? Sorry, I'm not. 

01:27:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm not a tennis connoisseur but I'm pretty sure there's been like, uh, wimbledon final sets that have gone well. Yeah, there's been one that went like like three. 

01:27:37 - Kirk Evans (Host)
It would gain away like a match, someone like three days, because, yeah, because of that, I, I I thought they all had it. Maybe some have taken away, maybe it was never, it was always just Wimbledon, I don't know. 

01:27:47
I could be wrong. Yeah, for that match to end in a tiebreaker. It feels like a World Cup final going to a penalty shootout, where it's just you want somebody to win. But anyways, let's go to our next topic here. Bles Betts again, and he likes to. He loves the rage bait and now that I understand the character more, I see the rage bait when it happens. We talked about him like a week ago or two weeks ago now, but he said this you can't win long term betting parlays. So I would say this is rage bait and because I think it is very clear you can win betting parlays, but can we start with you, Kirk, perhaps on this one here? 

01:28:25 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yeah, I think we've gone over this before with a bender wins, but we can do it again. I think when you want to think about bet, like theoretical betting, coin flips is the easiest way to do it. So a coin flips 50, 50, obviously. So if someone offered you plus one, 10 or 2.1 on a coin flip, obviously you would take it. Obviously that would be a winning wager. If someone offered you so two coin flips is getting, let's say, a heads, and then a heads is 50% and then 50%. So if you're parlaying them, you have a 25% chance. If you wanted to parlay heads and heads with plus 110, you would get plus 440. Obviously, if you had plus 440 on the chances of a flip being heads and then heads, you would win. 

01:29:18
So parlays can easily be profitable long term if they're plus EV. If you multiply a plus EV bet by a plus EV bet, it doesn't somehow magically turn into a negative EV bet, assuming there's no correlation. So I don't know why people think that. I guess they just have this idea in their head that parlays are bad and it's like yes, it's true, parlays are worse if you're parlaying negative EV bets, because a negative EV bet times a negative EV bet makes an even bigger negative ev bet. But it's the exact same as on the flip side a positive ev bet times a positive ev bet makes an even more positive for the for the grand majority of people. 

01:29:57 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I I know we've had like the. There's nuances to it where it's like okay, like for the nine percent of people they're not making plus ev bet, so parlays are worse. I know we've had the conversation of like okay, but they're spending less and they're losing less per bet, so now does it like help problem gamers? That's like very nuanced in that discussion, but for typically that's where the conversation arises that people are making losing bets anyways. Parlaying them gives them a worse chance of actually winning yeah, I think kirk explained it well the. 

01:30:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
The challenge with this space and this particular tweet is you now have a lot of people where it's really challenging to say whether or not they are tweeting stuff for engagement or they actually mean it, or, in this case, whether he thinks he might be offering good advice. Right Like, there's a lot of possible scenarios with such a short tweet here, a lot of possible scenarios with such a short tweet here. And look for 98 of bettors, this is probably solid advice because they're they're not betting with an edge anyways. So by parlaying, they're now, you know, compounding this negative ev. It's more challenging, but it's spoken very matter-of-factly and frankly. It's not true. 

01:31:06
Um, you know, to the to the point that kirk mentioned, if, if you are, you know, I I see guys like judah that I've done some stuff with in the space. Uh, same game, parlay space now, where you're stringing together all these legs, um, where the relationship between outcomes hasn't been priced correctly. So by adding extra legs, you're actually improving your ev in the long run. There's lots of of instances where parlays can actually amplify your edge. 

01:31:32 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Absolutely. Next one here on the topic of limiting comes from Thomas Viola at TVAT Work, who was upset about not being able to place a future on LA Galaxy to win the MLS Cup. He calls it a long shot of long shots and almost certainly free money for the book. La Galaxy right now defending champions, by the way are bottom of MLS. Seven points after 17 games, 15 points out of a playoff spot. So, yes, very far away from winning the MLS Cup or even getting to the playoffs. But he said Circa had a line of 350 to one on this. 

01:32:04
I'm sure they would have happily taken my money, but at MGM the line was 750 to one and I wanted to bet it there. But I tried to place my incredibly modest wager. Mgm simply said no, we'll not allow you to allow you to bet on this line for any amount of money. It wasn't that I was limited with them already and exceeding limits. They simply would not take even one penny on a line they had posted Bet365 1,000 to 1, and they refused the bets and then actually adjusted the line after refusing the initial wager, Said that ESPN did take the bet, which was not a hefty sum, and it all likely will soon be a loser. 

01:32:39
I mean, there's a price for everything, but anyways, very difficult to win the bet from that position. But anyways, the state regulated sports betting is so unbelievably pitiful. What's the point of even putting up a line if you're going to refuse to take any action on it? This isn't a even a gripe about limiting, it was just straight refusal to take any action at all. And in 365's case they actually took the information for free. These are the exact kind of bets these books would turn around and tweet about if they actually hit, saying look, you could have made this bet with us midseason. Turn $10 into 10 grand. So we'll start with the sportsbook sympathizer, as he's become to known in the show Kirk Are you going to defend the sportsbooks? 

01:33:19 - Kirk Evans (Host)
for this one. No, I actually think this is unacceptable. I think it should not be allowed that you don't take a bet Look, you want it extremely limited, that's one thing, but you shouldn't be allowed to take someone's information and use that information for your benefit without offering anything back. I just don't think that's acceptable from sports books and I don't think that should be allowed. 

01:33:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, this is about the illusion of access. Right, there's something that spanky always says that I like to say, which is uh, hang, hang a line, take a hit. I mean, we're talking this could have been a five dollar bet, a twenty dollar bet, like, if you're not going to be willing to take a bet, then just don't post a number. This is this is inexcusable. Honestly, I was going to give credit to espn bet for actually taking the bet, wow, but the bar is so low right now that two other recreational sportsbooks wouldn't. At least they did, but it's actually sad that that even crossed my mind. Of credit to them for taking a low-stakes bet on an MLS future. 

01:34:20 - Kirk Evans (Host)
The person did give credit, but I did not repeat that because I didn't want to give them credit. I didn't want that coming out of my mouth. 

01:34:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, at least we got regulators to help us. 

01:34:32 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yeah, absolutely. This one's a very widely spread conversation, not just for sports betting, because Taylor Lewin 77 says it's middle of 2025 and people still jump up the moment the plane reaches the gate, as if standing sooner will somehow get them off faster. Jeff, are you one to stand up when the plane hits the gate, are you? 

01:34:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
are you still in your seat, but I'm parked I'm parked, I'm probably traveling with a big group the kids anyway so we got a lot of things. Let them unload luggage. Uh, I think it's just such classless behavior by so many people on a plane I don't even understand there should be and listen, I say this someone you know, like probably most of you, listening unless, like it's absolutely have to. I take a direct flight, so this doesn't pertain to me, but whoever has a connecting flight should be allowed off the goddamn plane first. Yeah, how is that even like not a normalized thing? Like everyone sits. If you got a connector, let's let connectors off, like before everyone you know I don't know they act like uh, something's being given away for free at the end of the plane. It's really embarrassing behavior. I'm not above like standing up, like if my knees hurt, I'm sorry. I just want to like stand for a moment, but I'm not like getting my shit up top or anything. 

01:36:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah no, it's. I haven't resonated with a tweet more in a long time. I hate air travel for a number of reasons, but the people who are like they're standing 12 minutes in the aisle taking their bags, that just so they could be like three feet closer to getting off the plane, will never, ever make any sense to me. Like I just congratulations, you've saved. You've shaved like 30 seconds off of your life. 

01:36:24 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Like you've saved not even like. You're still stuck in the aisle, and most of these people are probably the people that are like shoving oversized bags in the airhead. 

01:36:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Anyway, like you know, they're god forbid they check something, but they're always in a rush god forbid, there's a minute on their day flying sucks and it brings out the absolute worst in people is the reality, that's true too. 

01:36:45 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yes yeah, to me, the only time I'm ever doing this is if my bag is like a bunch of rows back, yeah, and then. And then you kind of have to go because you don't want to be walking against the crowd but like even people get up right away. That even if you get up right away, it's still hard to go back and get your bag. But yeah, I just don't. So people are very like they do what they see, so one person stands up and then the next person stands up. It's just, I don't know, I don't get it. 

01:37:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
The ones that kill me, though, are the ones that fly up the aisle from the back of the plane, Like. Those are the ones that really kill me. 

01:37:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Where are they going? 

01:37:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They're not getting anywhere. No, they're just causing a bunch of shitstorm, like and confusion. 

01:37:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But the craziest ones are the ones standing up at the back of a plane. Yeah, Like what are you doing? 

01:37:31 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Yeah, especially at the back. 

01:37:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You have literally no position to gain and you'll literally have like a five-minute warning at least to just okay, now's the time I should start getting up. 

01:37:46 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Like you said, I'm parked in my seat until the line has moved to the point where I'm able to go. I stand up. I take my time getting my bag down. The people behind me maybe like lose like 10 seconds, but there's no need to rush. I just try to stay calm. 

01:38:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But yeah, uh, air child does bring out the worst in people but we also see it here, though guys is like we have to clear customs. So I feel like people are just most of the time, we're not doing, we're doing international travel, even, um, until we're the 51st state, uh. So people are just like I guess they're in a rush to beat customs. I, I have no idea, but whatever, they're all crazies yeah, I listened. 

01:38:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's pro pro tip for, like the, the 10 of people are watching that are canadian. They still do the arrive can app that they use during covid. If you fill that out, you just bypass the entire line. It's basically like having nexus you, you. You don't have to wait for anything, so there's like no excuses basically I'll give you a better one, just get a nexus. 

01:38:44 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Like, yeah, you, literally anyone can get one. There's this misconception you have to work there and travel a lot. 

01:38:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Just sign up for nexus, I have one plus cv mover the week, right there from jacob and I know I've delayed this a little bit but, jacob, maybe can you ask nadoo what he thinks about people standing up when the plane lands he may not have experience. 

01:39:02 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Who knows on the no fly list, isn't he? 

01:39:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
that's what. Until they do, until Nadeau is up in the air and we can legitimately document it, these rumors are going to continue. 

01:39:18 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Like you said, though, he'll literally have a video on a plane, and people will still say it's fake. For the record, I don't believe he's on the no-fly list. 

01:39:24 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Neither do I. I'm Nadeau Crew. For the record, I don't believe he's on the no-fly list. Neither do I. I'm the new crew An unsubstantiated rumor started by bad people. 

01:39:37 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Oh, also one extra Plus TV move of the week. You know how, when the carts come around for drinks, you can get a little cup of Coke or whatever, or water or something what a lot of people don't recognize. This is at least the case for Air Canada. You can just get a beer for free and they'll give you an entire standard beer for free instead of choosing a Coke. So I learned that. What's that, jeff? 

01:39:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I said I didn't have a clue, I could see, yeah, okay. 

01:40:03 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Wow, free beer. Last one comes from PetLab Analytics. This is Tweety Dimes, right, yes, it is, says low-key sports books one of the best places to take a girl on a first or second date. You take a girl into your world, buy her a drink and a $25 parlay ticket. Let her pick teens. Just because they wear her fave colors, who cares? Her first parlay will be remembered more than that dude's 600 dinner date. So you winning um rob. In your experience, you ever brought a girl to a sports book for a date well, so like sports books are more of um a new age thing, right, uh? 

01:40:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
and even around us we don't really have like sports books per se like they would in vegas or or where um betlab analytics is from. I will say I've reflected on this. It's a hilarious tweet, but I also think it's kind of true, like the key is yes, the key here is your self-awareness, like it depends on the person right. 

01:41:03
Like, for example, jeff Feinberg. If you're gonna, if you're to bring a girl out and Jeff's happily married. But let's just say, in a hypothetical world he's on a first date and they're going to watch Monday Night Football with the Chargers game and he's yelling at the screen. How is that not a holding call in front of the girl that you barely know? Like, don't do that. But if you can keep it chill and if you're a better, you're just introducing her to your world. And if you're a better, you're just introducing her to your world. Like you're just getting that out of the way quicker. I don't think it's a bad move. I really don't. It's memorable, it's different. You just gotta make sure that you're not the one that's like killing the vibes and like rage raging over every leg of your parlay. 

01:41:42 - Kirk Evans (Host)
That if the girl doesn't like sports, she's not going to enjoy watching the games for like even for like a 25 dollar play. She's not going to enjoy watching the games for like even for like a $25 probably she's not going to find a new girl, jacob maybe, maybe it wasn't meant to be well, sure, the girl likes sports, then like maybe it could work, but like go to a game, then yeah, I, I don't see this working. 

01:42:02 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I think this is one of your worst takes ever on this pod route. I think that's just in people at sportsbooks are. There are a lot of insane people to take them. To take a girl there on your first date. That's, you are going to scare her off. But I will give a good piece of advice. If you want to watch a game or are going to a game with a girl, a great move is put in a 20 parlay for her and say, if this parlay wins, I'll get you the purse you want or you know x thing you want, they know um, because then it gets her in the game she's invested and she will like be interested and not hate it. 

01:42:42 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Versus if you're just like cheering on your team, your bets, watching with the girl, she's going to kind of hate it yeah, but that's a good play if you're, if it's your picks, then they're going to lose and she's going to be disappointed yeah, she could be disappointed, but she'll have fun. And don't make it like you dangle this, this carrot of a purse, in front of her face, and now there's going to be no purse but that to me is way no, but then she'll want to do it again first pro tip Plant the seed of getting the girl addicted to gambling. 

01:43:11 - Kirk Evans (Host)
No, no. This isn't good for a first date. This is good for, like, you've been seeing the girl for a bit and you want to watch a sporting event, and no, she doesn't. 

01:43:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Do not bring your first date to the sports book. Some of the most disgusting creatures on earth Listen, like I've done. Like the Vegas trip before the buddies and you know, back in the day we'd rent out like a Westgate booth when, like Westgate was the thing on the Sunday. But obviously you have a couple of guys in our group who don't give a shit about football and they were entertained the whole day of just watching the lowest common denominators in action. We have like a photo reel of some of like the most depressing looking human beings. You do not want your first like this girl to think that this is a potential end outcome for you from gambling. Like it is just like once you've established your relationship and she knows you don't lose every bet, then maybe bring her to the book, but until then no. 

01:44:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't know, Guy, I'm going to tell you I think it's very circumstantial, you know, listen. 

01:44:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm happy. Yeah, maybe it's a Bellagio. 

01:44:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm happily married. But let's say I was taking a. I lived in Vegas. I'm taking a girl out on a date. I bring her to Circa. You know we're there. Benson gets me the VIP booth. He comes by, he says hello, mr Pozzola, great to see you. Boom. 

01:44:41 - Kirk Evans (Host)
Okay, we're really extending this. 

01:44:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You make the Sean Perry videos with your wife and his little girl making the bets together. 

01:44:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Please don't draw that comparison to me, Jeff. 

01:44:52 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I think for me this would have to be like I was in Vegas with my now fiance and the Giants had a playoff game, and I'm a Giants fan. So I was like I know we're on vacation, but I'm watching this fucking game, that's it. So I think in that scenario okay, like you know, maybe put a parlay to get her into the game as well, cause you're going to be watching it together. Anyway, she did not want to watch it. So I think in that scenario sure, but a first date? I think that is just insane. 

01:45:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

01:45:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You're going to be sitting beside a guy in a coverscom Jersey with minus 110 as the number. I've seen it. 

01:45:29 - Kirk Evans (Host)
It's a sad sight I I the way you described, like the photos you took, jeff. It reminds me of a tiktok account. I don't know if you used to. 

01:45:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I didn't take them, I didn't take them, my friends who don't care about sports, who weren't really betting, I know, but there's an account on tiktok called dudes walking and it's essentially that, but it's that type of person walking. 

01:45:47 - Kirk Evans (Host)
I think if you yeah, maybe called up your, your representative, who comes to your door with a special product, and went to that tiktok account, you'd have a good laugh absolutely, but um, it was. 

01:45:58 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
My friends who don't care about sports were entertaining themselves at like, just like at a zoo all right, great way to end it off. 

01:46:08 - Kirk Evans (Host)
That is the show for today. If you did enjoy, make sure you have smashed that like button. Make sure as well you subscribe to the channel. Pump this channel up to 20,000 subscribers. We're working very hard behind the scenes in the new studio space to bring you even greater content and bring back those Thursday interviews. Hey, and it's easier to find those great guests with a bigger channel If you're listening to Audio Forum rate and review five stars. And it's easier to find those great guests with a bigger channel If you're listening to Audio Forum rate and review 5 Stars. We'll be back on Friday with the A-Team and we'll see you there.