00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions. 

00:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's Circle Back, episode number 20, right here on the Circles Off YouTube channel presented by Underdog. I'm Rob Pizzola, back in the saddle. This week had a very enjoyable vacation, but the world doesn't stop. Twitter doesn't stop while you're gone and we're going to react to some of the best tweets over the course of the past week and also some Twitter Spaces reaction over the course of the past week as well. But before we get to that, I do want to remind you we are proudly presented by Underdog. 

01:17
I'm getting a lot of good feedback from people who've signed up at Underdog have never tried it out before. It's more of a recreational product, very easy to use. You pick higher or lower on player props, put down a little bit, try to win a bigger score, which seems to be the case for a lot of people nowadays, available in a lot of different US states and across Canada except for Ontario. So make sure you check them out. The link is in the description below. Use code CIRCLES. If you are signing up, you get thousand dollar bonus for your sign up, plus a free pick to get you started as well. And we do have our resident tout kirk evans in studio today. This is coming out tuesday morning. Tonight is luka donchich's first game against his former team. I'm putting you on the spot here you don't even have lines to work with If you're looking at the. 

02:05 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Lakers no, I know what the line is. 

02:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Lakers-Mavs. What are some players people could target, maybe as overachievers or underachievers, based off of the matchup? 

02:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, to me, just based off the matchup, the interesting question is Luka himself. Every model better is going to show a significant edge to the under because it's going to be juiced up. Because it's a matchup against Dallas, the entire public will be on the over. But motivation matters and that matters a lot and that's kind of the interesting part to Price of how much is he going to be trying to score because it's Dallas. The line's 29.5, definitely over his typical prop as a Laker. So yeah, that's kind of the interesting question of how to price motivation. 

02:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it's always one that's been challenging for me as well. He's going to get more looks period, plain and simple. The teammates are going to look to get him, so Joe Dirk, you can get in here. 

02:55 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I'm just going to throw in Kirk. If you want to check out Kirk on Twitter, check his description. You'll have the dub club posted there. 

03:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No dub club. 

03:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No dub club. All right, kirk Evans. To my left, jeff Feinberg is back from vacation as well. A great time at the Great Wolf Lodge Everything went well. 

03:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Oh my God, you know I would take the kids there. My wife forbids. No, no, no, no, no. 

03:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
My wife forbids it. Great Wolf Lodge is a guaranteed whooping cough by the end yeah, no, I've heard. 

03:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, no, it's yeah, oh man honestly seems a little disgusting and I've heard from people that have been like your room reeks of chlorine yeah, I can like the whole fucking property just wafts that shit you have to, yeah, stop yeah, my wife forbids. I have some friends that go, that they like come join us, like we're the kids that found my wife like is a hard. 

03:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, all right, you're not gonna see jeff at the great wolf lodge anytime soon. And then jason cooper takes by jay and uh, yes, definitely the david spade uh joe dirt haircut, which it's not bad. 

03:59 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I'm going skiing next weekend so I thought I'd like kind of fit in with the aussies and it kind of suits you. Uh, I don't know if that's a good thing or bad. 

04:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You can move on we don't have to talk kind of suits you all right, let's move on. First topic uh, this is too easy. Um, big board bets at sgp, underscore vic. I'll read the tweet. It takes zero sports knowledge and zero skill to do straight bets, as I've shown in the past when I flipped a coin on 10 games and won eight out of 10. Obviously, everyone doesn't feel the same way. That's totally fine, but to me, taking a bunch of plays and parlaying them into something crazy is more of an art that takes skill. 

04:32
Just looking at this ticket I did is, in my opinion, a work of art, and this is accompanied by a fan duel ticket. Taking alternate lines and hitting the middle to me is a thing of beauty. Even a ten dollar better one over twelve hundred dollars, it would take a ten dollar straight better 120 bets of plus 100 to make the same amount. That's if they went 120, you know, and never lost at the end of the day. I just want people to be up money. If it's by straight bets, so be it. If it's by parlays, then great. 

04:59 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Up is up now up is up, stupid is stupid it's a great way to put it. 

05:05 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think this is the dumbest tweet in twitter history it's one of them. 

05:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now there's caught. So I've seen this guy and jason's in studio today. Because he's been in all the twitter spaces recently. He's like between him uh, who else is in there? 

05:18 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
spanky jack jack jason got offended when I gave someone else credit for claiming. I think they put more minutes into listening to the spaces. Jason like took that as a fence. 

05:34 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
That like no, he would take his minute count versus anyone's yeah, I've been in there for a long time, so what's the context on this guy? 

05:42
okay, so this guy is by far my number one op in spaces, so I've actually gone at him many times. There's so much to say about this guy and, honestly, I was going to talk to you after this just talking about making another Circles Off episode, where you guys go through touts and just talk about terminology, that people say that avoid people because, like this guy, like just everything about this guy reeks of scammer. Okay. What pisses me off the most, though, is he has 20 000 subscribers on dub club. Yeah, he clearly makes a ton of money from dub club, he, but he portrays himself as a professional sports better. Well, he will not do anything that it takes to prove that he's a professional sports better, though I have so much I can go around to talk about this guy. He's a fraudster, he's a. He's a loser, yes, and I don't even know where to start. First of all, this picture is 11 years old. This guy is catfishing to promote his sports. 

06:33
It's fucking 11 years old. Go to DKDFS's Twitter account. He has a video of him with regards to this, talking about how straight bets don't take skill. He flipped a coin 10 times. He straight bets, don't take skill. He flipped a coin 10 times. Yeah, he looks nothing like he looks in that picture anymore. And then it's just the stupidity that he comes with the art form. All this kind of shit is just ridiculous. It's ridiculous and he will never go out of his way to prove he's winning better. Never track his stuff. I mean, I don't even know where to start, but last, like he talks about uh, brett joined his discord. Brett being nba nba green beans joins discord for a. He was up like three units or something. Okay, but he doesn't. He mentions that as if it's good. He forgets to mention that in January he lost his members a hundred. He lost a hundred percent of their bankroll and he's so nonchalant about it. It's crazy, anyways. 

07:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So background is you don't like him, but he also exhibits a lot of characteristic traits that are of be consistent with a fraud. Yeah, this, to me, though, is very common, like this line of thinking uh, I, we all have friends at bed. You know, like when me and jeff were growing up and betting it's not to say we wouldn't parlay stuff because we would parlay stuff, but like the parlay was almost like your bailout at the end of the week, like you were down on your pph account, you didn't want to go pay the the book for the next week. You're like how am I going to get it all back? Let me throw in a small parlay to win it all. Like that was the the mentality back in the day, where we were mostly straights. I would say now it's like people, people cannot deal. Like they literally cannot fathom the idea of putting a hundred bucks down on a game to win a hundred like it's. It's like why would I do that? Why would I not just try to win 20 000 with this bet? 

08:07 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
it's crazy. I have a buddy who I think is really good at betting and these parlays broke him. I don't mean this specific middling, but I mean he hit a couple fucking monsters uh you know, in the single game and he's just done like he will not bet like five to win five anymore it's great. Can't get the rush, he just can't do it and like he just got crushed last year. 

08:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah yeah, there is nothing worse for a better, especially at like the beginning of their betting life, than hitting big on a parlay like that. That is just how people get addicted. But I do want to go back and talk about the first sentence here. I still haven't been. I've read this maybe 50 times. I still can't compute the, as I've shown in the past when I flipped a coin on 10 games and won 8 out of 10. Like, is he saying that he could win on coin flips? 

09:02 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
No, no, he literally posted a video of him and he said the head is the home team, spread tails is the away team spread. He flipped 10 coins for the NBA last year and he won 8 out of 10. 

09:14 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But what does he think that is proof of? I don't know. 

09:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think he's saying because I'm flipping a coin and I won 8 out of 10. You don't get credit for it, it's all luck. So these parlays's all luck, it's all luck. So why these parlays are not luck? 

09:26 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
If you pick a game, it's 50-50. Why do I give any credit to someone for picking a game? I think that's what he's saying, fascinating. 

09:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jacob, we have that Google sheet where we're keeping the dumbest tweets of the year. This has to be in there, so we don't forget this. This is one of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen. This guy is up there for loser of the year and it's fucking February. 

09:48 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Here's the thing right. 

09:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's up to the people in a vote. Yes, we'll do that later on. You know who I'm riding for. 

09:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yes, we make the nominees with the people vote. 

09:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know what gets me about all these guys? For those who are listening and not watching, it's a $158 wager that pays over 20 000. That one, congrats, congrats. They they never acknowledge the amount of losses. 

10:11
Oh no, on the sgp, it's like that doesn't figure into the equation at all. It's like all I gotta do is hit one and and I'm good, but the losses consistently pile up, especially when you're playing parlays where, like you, don't actually have an edge, of course, and also like this guy acting like he just discovered what inverse correlation was. 

10:28 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Grow the fuck up number one, Number two he posts up that isn't inversely correlated, that are completely independent events that he parlays together. I don't think he realizes that a parlay is just a bunch of straight bets rolled over over and over again, Like you saying that it doesn't take skill to win straight bets. That's what a parlay is. You fucking idiot, you moron, that's what it is. You're just rolling it over. It pisses me the fuck off. 

10:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Because he's so stupid. Seems like this guy has really got you, man. 

10:54 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It really bothers me, because he touts his wins when his parlays loses, Because every single pick he posts. He says guys, if you don't like these plays, water it down. 

11:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Oh yeah, that's the water. 

11:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Water it down I forgot it was the water it down. What does that mean? It's like he gives out eight picks, but he's like, yeah, you don't have to play. If you don't like them all, just water it down. 

11:12 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Oh, seven of eight Shut up. 

11:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Take out the one you don't like. So Anyone who watered it down would have won, so his subscribers still win but for some reason he doesn't. 

11:23 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
And what pisses me off the most, he says he has many accounts, whatever. If that's true that's true, I doubt he does he has one FanDuel account. If you're up so much, you're posting these 20k slips. Show your fucking PNL, you loser, Like? Show them, Post them. It takes nothing to do Prove to us. 

11:40 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I just have this opinion. To only bet like that you're. As Kevin Durant would say, you've got to be a brokie. Only brokies need a bet for everything, to pay tens of thousands. 

11:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm with you. It's kind of the opposite of what he thinks it is. Yeah. 

11:59 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's a good thing. His wife is a lawyer, because he's probably a stay-at-home dad, no job and he just lucked into a couple dub club wins and now he has a dub club that people pay for, and that's what also pisses me off about dub club. They feature this guy on their front page. Doesn't have a track record, listen, most likely has a lot of money long term. 

12:15 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The lawyer wife doesn't give a shit if he's got set. The lawyer wife is proud of him. If he's got how many subs? 

12:21 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
yeah, sure, sure 20k but like, how did? 

12:23 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
he start it. Listen, I'm not saying he's doing it right, I'm just saying on the home front, I guarantee you the lawyer wife is proud honey, did you hit your parlays? 

12:32 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
no, did you get the? 

12:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
subs well the thing that also I really don't like about this guy is and I haven't listened to him that much on spaces, but my recollection is like he's one of the guys who, like anyone, anyone calls him out for anything. There's always going to be haters. 

12:46 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
For sure, there's always going to be haters. It's the being an analyst nice guy theory. Yeah, it's like they're all nice guys trying to help people out. 

12:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah Well, this guy's got to get hate for being, because he's so stupid Well he is. 

12:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, there's this actually caused? Uh, there was a huge discourse around this tweet and I was actually surprised at how many people were responding Like like tell him bro. 

13:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, exactly Like. 

13:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Look at this guy Like you know it's a complete waste of time to straight bet $25 while sweating a two hour rigged game for $22 back. Just door dash. At that point this guy, like you, said it doesn't take much talent to take a minus 150 favorite to win. Like no shit lol. But put together a parlay and it wins. Takes research, knowledge and skill. Like we're bordering on insanity here at this point like but, but. 

13:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But again, it makes sense that this guy has whatever 20 000 subs because, like there, there has to be 20 000 people who have these because it's simple to like. 

13:43 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's just lifetime like whatever. He has a lot of sounds. There has to be 20,000 people who have these insane thoughts. 

13:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They're not asking subs, by the way, it's just Lifetime. Whatever. He has a lot of subs, I get it. They just feel like I'll hit my quota. I don't got to hit every bet. I don't got to hit a bet every five days, but meet the quota of these goddamn parlays and you're not getting killed. 

14:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, okay. 

14:04 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But it's got to suck to not suck. But the stress of making those parlays like down 12,000, trying to win them back Like fuck, can't be fun. 

14:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sure, but so, especially when you're a pick seller, that adds another element on top, like for, if you're just a better, that's one thing, but when you're a pick seller, I can see why all of these guys gravitate towards the sgp, because you hit one sgp and you basically have a promotional tool for life, yeah, like people I I know this from doing our live watch alongs on forward progress this year we've hit more than this fucking loser. 

14:42
I don't victory lap them or whatever, but but I know like literally people will be coming back to me via dms for weeks afterwards like can't watch the show tonight. What's the sgp I? I've lived through that so I get it like it's in fairness, the way that these guys are looking at things, especially when they're selling, it's not from the betting perspective because, yeah, this guy can go on a heater and he can go like I don't know, 17-3, but that's not going to sell him as much as it will to post that one huge SGP ticket. 

15:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, it's a good example. Arielle Epstein, when she was on the spaces, was like I won't bet minus 140. And all the sharp guys were like why wouldn't you bet minus 140? And all the sharp guys were like why wouldn't you bet minus 140? Why wouldn't you bet minus 140? And she's like I know, based on the algorithm, if I post anything past minus 140, it won't get any views. 

15:29 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
They think about it in terms of people seeing the bets, not if bets are good or not A hundred percent, but the only counter I have to that is go check out Steve Fedlick's Twitter. You'll definitely get views. Yeah, I guess it's like a horseshoe of like, if you get to like minus 50,000, then you can start looking again. 

15:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, pretty incredible stuff that's happening in the space nowadays. I would say it's tweets like that that like help create the show. 

15:58 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Oh yeah, oh, 100%, like you saw tweets like that and you're like we got to do a show. Well, I will say, if the show didn't exist, you'd seen that tweet and be like I think we finally got to start doing the show. 

16:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
In all honesty, for me it is incredible content for this show, but I would rather not see those tweets and not have a show In all seriousness, because I get triggered by some of that stuff. But I do see funny stuff. I don't think you get triggered by some of that stuff. 

16:25 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But I do see funny, I don't think you get triggered by the tweets, more so the replies and the amount of people that agree that is like more upsetting than the one guy's opinion it just presents, like this state of the betting world, which I find to be sad, upsetting. 

16:37
Yeah it's, it's like I'm like this is sad yeah it's sad that someone like that can tweet something like that and be making like a couple hundred thousand a year from selling picks, estimated well, I mean, listen, there's a lot of things that are tweeted on twitter that you think are insane and that there's so many likes and so many people agree with sports betting or real life. You, you're like, holy shit, that's so sad. 

17:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But also I read a tweet like that and I think, because sometimes I get worried you know how long is an edge going to exist, and then I'm like I've got some time, it always circles back to like I got more life than. 

17:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I thought Exactly. I just caught this one random tweet. 

17:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I was actually waiting for you. I was surprised it took that long for you to make the point that is the point that a lot of people make. 

17:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Ba analytics comes into the spaces all the time. Porter right. 

17:33
I've interviewed Porter on Circles Off on this channel a couple times. You can check out those interviews. They were really good. But yeah, he comes on and he'd be like Rob or other people. Why are you arguing with this guy? It's like we need this guy, but ethically I just can't handle it and I used to be one of those guys not to the same extent where I was selling picks like these guys do now but I was the guy that I thought I knew what I was doing and I really didn't. 

17:58 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
So it's tough. I will say maybe we do need these guys, but I think those people will still be playing those Lotto SGPs, regardless of if these guys exist or not. They would still be firing them out there. Maybe they'd play two times the amount now, or I don't know who knows how much more they would play, but I feel like those people who are in those discords would still be firing out those players. 

18:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, this reminded me of only like a decade ago this was happening. So do none of these new age touts release anything outside of the new prize pick style player prop parlays. Nobody's trying to get after it with sides and totals anymore. I feel so old. Back in my day, even mount rushmore fraudsters like incarcerated bob would ship out a monday night football spread which is true. 

18:37
Like you're looking for picks on like big games nowadays, even the super bowl this past week it's like people don't even pick the super bowl side anymore. They just post like a six game parlay. 

18:47 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But also very much intentional from the sports book 100 they realize their hold is so much bigger on these things and they've pushed it towards that direction. But also I think it's the. 

18:56 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It just speaks to the state of the industry and how people kind of. Their relationship to gambling or the broader community's relationship to gambling is where they don't really care about winning. They like betting small amounts into big amounts, like they want the small to big. That's the rush they're looking after. They want to play a lottery. 

19:11 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And I get that a lot because, like the one area I actually tweet picks from, would be like outright golf. And so much of that is just dudes and I'll hit a winner. Sometimes I'm playing it harder than I should, but you know, it's just dudes and I'll hit a winner. Sometimes I'm playing it harder than I should, but people are just betting a few bucks and they just are hoping that leads to Sunday sweats. 

19:32 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Step up three winners this year, like 50-1 or greater, dub club and bio, you're going to do great. 

19:38 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Three winners. One of them was 30-1. Okay, sorry, only 30-1. 

19:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
People don't even get out of bed for 30 to 1 anymore. 

19:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah like when I'm betting on a sunday with my friends. I'm betting five dollars to win 50 grand. Like that I I definitely get the impulse but also quick ad. I saw on twitter this week a lot of like any parlay, betters or losers, whatever. I think it's pretty important to recognize that if all the losers are betting parlays, a good way to make your account look good is to bet parlays. So the idea that only idiots bet parlays is really dumb. 

20:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But this resonates with me hard because maybe Rob will tell you whether he recognizes or not. I don't give a when I just want to bet a game on Thursday night and I want to de-gen, even if I don't have an opinion. I just want a side. I don't want your prop, I just want a side. And it is so much harder to get a goddamn side these days, Like that's the goddamn truth. As a guy, that's not really a prop. I mean I'll play the SGPs. 

20:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You'll play the first touchdown. 

20:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Score that DA gives you every time. Yeah, like you know me, I'm a sucker for a tight end on first touchdown every time, but it's hyper-small, recreational shit. But I just want a side sometimes from people and they know everything, they just don't have it. Even the even, like you said, the schlub, tout the fraud, tout still used to have a side for us. 

21:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh yeah, in some cases they'd have both sides of the same game In some cases they would. Those were the days, those were the real scammers, the OGs of scammers. 

21:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
What was that guy whose major stock down now? He was accused of that Like a month ago. He was everything in gambling Twitter. Now he's nowhere the guy he was accused of that like a month ago he was everything in gambling Twitter. 

21:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now he's nowhere. The guy with the nipples oh see, buzz. 

21:31 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Well, also that shit got so old so quick he fucked up going on the spaces cuz yeah, and him having to speak for more than three minutes. Everyone just like this. Guy's not entertaining and he's a moron. 

21:40 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I could be wrong, but where we used to work, rob at the radio station, I feel like we had a controversy because we sold commercials to a tout To covers To covers 

21:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
experts. 

21:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, but different to a tout who was selling both sides. 

21:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Ooh, I wasn't a part of that. That's above my pay grade at that time. 

22:00 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I was at the poverty line, yeah. 

22:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Me and you at that time. 

22:04 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I forget the guy's name. But yeah, listeners, come in and be like some of our callers are getting one side. 

22:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was not a good look. I didn't know that that happened. I honestly didn't know that that happened. That makes sense. We were hurting for money. 

22:16 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, anyone who wanted to pay for a commercial. 

22:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh man, some of those commercials back in the day were something else On the same topic or just like you know, morphing from one into another here. A lot of this stems from companies like Dub Club and WAP nowadays, where it's pretty easy for you to sell picks to anyone. You know, like growing up, for me, if I wanted to sell picks like that avenue wasn't available to me. I wouldn't even know how to go about doing that. It was much more challenging. Nowadays it's pretty easy. You create a Dub Club account, a WAP account. But what I've noticed is that Dub Club is actually starting to heavily market a lot of these handicappers. 

23:00
They tweeted this one, which has since been deleted, which is plus 99.96 units in one day. Icy Sports Plays went insane, cashing huge on Monday night college hoops for all of his VIP subscribers. Get $20 off your first month here. They posted a graphic. It's deleted. We don't have the full graphic now. I did add up the total amount of units risked on that Monday and it was around 250. So I don't know how someone puts 250% of their bankroll in play, especially when all these games are overlapping. That's another story. 

23:34
There's this guy that's Bet Locksmith. He had like a really really long tweet about digging into Dub Club and their business model. And then, you know, there was another video that got posted the other day, which I, which I, happened to see, which was this one guy, uh, that dub club is promoting. That is basically just like a top down better like it's. You know, they have this, they're doing videos, they're doing content with these guys that are selling now and they're, like you know, describe to people like how they can, they can, why they'd be successful with your package. And he's like, well, yeah, you know, I I open up all the sports books and I find the price that's off and it's like we've gotten to like a really low level of tout. 

24:16 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's like a video to say bet it Bo Vada. When you start, sure, yeah Right, like that's what the video is pretty much. 

24:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean yeah, right, like that's what the video is. Pretty much. 

24:23 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Granted, I did a master class on this entire thing, but I'm trying to teach people on like how the market betting market works, but also how to do it for yourself, not pay someone else to tell it to Feed you certain plays and just follow those plays when they're only gonna be there for 60 seconds and they're gone. 

24:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah well, the top, the top down, tout is kind of a new phenomenon, but it's the perfect mixture of is kind of a new phenomenon, but it's the perfect mixture of. Right at the top of the Dunning-Kruger chart, where these guys are like oh, I'm winning betting. I'm an expert. No one wins in betting. I'm so smart I now should be paid for my advice. But realistically, they know so little about betting because obviously being a top down better Sure winning is impressive but, also, it's pretty easy and you're pretty far from an expert. 

25:10
You probably just started in the last six months a year. But they think they should be paid for it and they think they're smart enough that, like their advice matters. But you know I even saw Elf talking about this that he sold a course on Arbing or something and now he's starting to go down. The Dunning-Kruger recognizes he's not as smart as he thought he was and was like, yeah, that was a disaster. I never should have sold that. But these guys I don't think ever come to that realization. 

25:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, it's tough for them to come to that realization because and again, I've lived through this before man you convince yourself that you know what's going on, like the seville guys used to come after me for years and I used to just dismiss them as internet trolls, which in, in a sense, they were, because they were. It's not like they were being like really nice to me. Hey, rob, like you know, look at, they were like you call you an asshole, this and that, but it it really took a long time to come to that realization and it came to it through losing money and unfortunately, like for me, I look at dub club. I think dub club is arguably one of the best business models on the planet. I I hate to say that, yeah, they, I don't know what they've raised at, but this is going to be an enormous, I think. 

26:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think nine figures is what I what yeah like they just raised that 100 million dollar valuation I believe, don't quote me on that like this is a it's a really, really good idea and execution. 

26:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
however, ethically morally I I it's that's a different conversation and I cannot like. Ethically morally, that's a different conversation and I cannot Ethically morally. 

26:48 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
At some point they'll be dragged in front of Congress and have to pay a fine. Yeah, this is a long way down the road, but they'll be there, and behind them will be celebrities who are shilling this shit Everybody it's the hundredth time I've said it. This is they will class action they will be on the list of people headed to congress and who will be paying one of the bigger fines once this settles but it might actually be a drop in the bucket at that point maybe sure, yeah, the same way as dropping the bucket for microsoft. 

27:21
Yeah yep. 

27:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
The sad truth of the matter is that in the sports betting industry, if you sell something that wins, it is cannibalizing yourself. Your edge will slowly erode and the more people who have it, the quicker it'll go away. But that is not true if you're selling losing picks. If you can convince people they're winning but they're actually losing, you can grow it to an unlimited degree because it doesn't cannibalize on itself. 

27:50 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It actually can just get bigger and bigger and bigger and that's the predatory part with dub clubs because they know that they're getting these losing bettors well. I mean, you would assume that they would know. A great example of this was this girl named jerica who was in spaces a couple weeks ago. She she is the wife of one of the biggest Call of Duty players in the world. She streams herself. She makes money for herself. She doesn't need to do any of this tout stuff. She just randomly started betting, hit a big parlay and Dub Club. 

28:14
The second the parlay hit Dub Club was in her DMs saying you should open a Dub Club and she said no, I don't feel the need to make money off of people. And that's what's. That's the most predatory part about this is that they know what they're doing and going after these people who are winning these parlays and they're trying to get them to come on the website. It's not like these people are just signing up out of the blue. They are. They're actively going out of their way for outreach to try and get these people on their website. 

28:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now the biggest thing, that's going to fuck their own business model, so I want to see how people can just advertise themselves however they want. 

28:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You just reminded me I have a DM from Dub Club. Love your work this year. Catch me up to speed on your 2024 plans. Where will you be sharing most of your MMA content this year? In your bio? Yeah, Like in bio. 

29:08 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So if you Google dub club right, hold on march 29th 2023 they hit me up, ignored, I feel left out. Now november 8th november, 8th 2023. Um, they responded to a video I did. This content is fire. Are you giving this away for free? On twitter question uh, february 3, so just this month, we can grow you an additional 20% with our ecosystem and marketing. What do we need to get you to join? It's crazy. I have never even responded. 

29:35 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Good for them, for their outreach, but like fuck, they know what they're doing. They're making their money off of people who are essentially scammers. Well, I mean like so let's say grifters, because scammer is the wrong word. People get mad when I say scammers, grifters, they're grifters. 

29:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You Google Dub Club, you get. You know there's a tag with every. So Dub Club is an online ecosystem where sports cappers and their community win more together. They've trademarked win more together on their website. But, like you go to the site and I mean they are they're. They are actively promoting people that are on hot runs. You know, like this, I don't know how this can this is false advertising For sure. 

30:14 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Two of the biggest dumb asses in the Twitter space is MPB and SGP. Vic are in their featured section. If you scroll down to their featured section and scroll through, you will see sorry, trending section, their featured section and scroll through you will see sorry, trending section, their trending section. Those guys are in there advertised on dub club and it's like dub club is advertising for them. That's why when people talk about this a little off topic here, but people talk about elf keeping people platforms, it's like these guys have a much bigger platform outside of just twitter. Dub club is out there promoting them. So the second that people find yeah, dub club, they're going to be seeing these guys and they'll never have even opened twitter in their life and they're going to be seeing these guys. And they'll never have even opened Twitter in their life and they're going to be seeing these guys. So at least Elf can give us the opportunity to shit on these morons. 

30:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I mean, for me, at the end of the day, people are asking me often. I mean, we're talking about it because people ask about it. Like you know, I found this guy, all he has is a Dub Club, this and that I'm sure 100% winning handicappers on Dub Club, on WAP, 100% the average person is not going to be able to discern who's actually winning from who's not. And this is why I will always just tell people to avoid, literally just avoid, these sites. Do not go to them, do not buy from them. 

31:22 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Period until there's some sort of due diligence that you can do on your end or that the site is doing themselves which, by the way, they're never going to do. 

31:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're not going to cut out. They said they're going to. They're never going to 99% of the cappers, but yeah, now they're just promoting them on top of it as well. Like I don't see how this isn't heading towards, uh, some sort of class action lawsuit at some point in time so can I ask you guys what your opinion is on regulating pick selling? 

31:39 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
like, do you think that we'll ever get to that point where you need a license to sell picks and you'll need to do? 

31:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
X, y Z to be able to do it. They couldn't even regulate sports betting properly. How are they going to regulate pick selling? 

31:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Part of the pick selling, though is it's like you like to think you have an incident and you learn and you don't do it again. And if some people like, let's say they're not winning it again. And if some people like, let's say they're not winning, but they like win enough where they're not, like like I like okay, like what makes guys winning at like 47 percent, 46 percent, 45 percent. 

32:17
So someone's losing that's pretty bad, I understand, but someone's losing but there's like there's still a lot of wins in there. So like the, so the participant doesn't feel like they're getting fleeced, and a lot of these people just I don't know want to pay for some level of community. You don't even know your next-door neighbor anymore. 

32:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The community is different. 

32:39 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm not defending dub club, but I'm saying clearly they can. You would think if people lose, if I'm paying for something and I'm supposed to win and I'm not winning they'll stare at their fucking P&L yeah, If they have the guts to look at it. Yes, and they realize this just doesn't work for me. Do I have sympathy for someone that's like on their third year renew of a losing service, Like why should I? 

33:04 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, that's also the biggest problem. 

33:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They can't learn that it's not working why? 

33:08 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
should I? 

33:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I think it's all the churn. 

33:11 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I doubt there's a lot of people who are consistently in there like year over year. 

33:16 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I get it. They gotta make a business. 

33:18 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
They churn these guys in and out, or they just churn them to another handicap. 

33:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, exactly so, like for me when I was in college, I want to say what was that 2008? Something roughly around that time? I'm horrible with dates, but like I used to skip classes, I'd sit in the computer lab. I wonder what the NHL lockout was. I'm betting like Swedish Elitserian hockey. 

33:40
You know Peter Forsberg's playing for Moto. I'm betting them every game. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, but I'm skipping classes. There used to be sites like freeplayscom, freepickscom. They'd have a list of like 40 handicappers and you'd click into them and every single one of them would give a free pick every day and they would also like sell packages on there. But I used to track every single one every single day and I'd get to a point where I'm like, wow, this guy's giving out 40 free plays like 29 and 11 on these plays. I'm gonna buy this guy's picks. And I think it's really easy to fall into the this guy is hot. Like. If you don't know anything about betting and don't understand the random variance, it's really easy to fall into the trap of like this guy is hot right now, but when you know you're more seasoned, you're like, well, he's not doing anything differently than he ever did before, the results are just going his way. But I'd buy those picks and I would lose. I'd be like, ah, fuck, this mike wins sports. He fucking sucks. Let me go to the next best capper on the list who's hot now? And I would go through that cycle until eventually. 

34:38
I've now lost a bunch buying these picks. I have credit card debt. I've lost a bunch betting these picks. I literally can't pay, like my street bookie and I'm working for them. Now at this point, like, and it gets to a point where, like, I need to reevaluate life and the. The issue for me is that, sure, I learned the hard way. There's people who learn it way harder than that. There's people who will go down the like the darkest paths right, like there's suicide is is a problem when, like, people develop addiction and stuff like that and I I can't stand stuff like this. It actually makes me cringe, like I, I get upset thinking about it. And this is where we're like, dub club and wop aren't gonna be the only products doing this so there's already other guys coming into the space. 

35:21 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
What's it called? 

35:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
pro duel no. 

35:23 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
A sharp duel, sharp, and I have a bone to pick with them and I think I don't want to bury the lead here. 

35:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So we can't keep going. Yeah, but on top of that, which one? 

35:28 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
is that? Is that the one I want to talk about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

35:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We'll get there, just don't forget there. And we'll also Like they're not even trying to win at sports betting, they're just trying to sell and they're putting in the work. I'm putting in the work. People should pay for it. But no, no one should pay for it. 

35:51 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Who cares about this work? Looking at last seven, looking at last 10. You're smoking a blunt in your car, putting together a parlay Like that ain't work, buddy. 

35:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like that's not what it's all about. So that's in his name, though. So he's sharp. Yes, we are going to move on here. Before we do, there's one product that you should be checking out. 

36:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
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36:56
If you're betting $10,000 a week and I know a lot of you watching are doing that that's an extra $100 to $400 back every single week. That's real money that adds up fast. With that additional money you've saved up by getting cash back, you can put down some more bets, maybe take some flyers on some futures. Maybe it's just extra profit for yourself. Whatever you wanna do, it's your decision. But I know what you're thinking. Is this legit? That's what plenty of our listeners and viewers thought too. But now tons of them are using it, and guys like Elf, who runs the regular Twitter spaces, have been documenting their experience and stacking extra cash just by earning on the deposits they were making. Anyway, if you are betting seriously, this is a no-brainer. Don't wait until you get blocked again. Start off with Edgebooth with the link in the description and start earning today. 

37:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you're enjoying the show so far, make sure you smash that like button down below. Always leave us a comment as well. That goes a long way. If you're not subbed, you're on circles off Like half of you watching these every single week are not subscribed and you're making it like an hour through every episode. At bare minimum, hit that subscribe button. It goes a long way to growing our channel. Please do that. We're entering the hazardous portion of the show, the toxic portion twitter spaces. Now, I was away for vacation a lot. I tried my best, by the way. Just little mini rant really quickly here. I hate when people like when I put out a tweet while I'm away and people are like put down your phone, man, like you're on vacation, enjoy your fucking vacation. However you want to enjoy your vacation. When I go away, I try not to be on my phone, but sometimes I'm on the beach and I don't read books and I'm like catching up on shit. It's okay. People like to live your life how you want to live your life. 

38:35 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I totally agree. You can be on vacation, you can send a tweet, you could be scrolling, you're reading the internet. It's literally like you had a newspaper in the past. But if you see a friend on vacation on a twitter space is at 9 30 at night yeah, when he should be out with his wife or doing something else you might be wondering. That's when, like we gotta, you literally have to have legitimate thoughts of like, what's up, buddy? When your friend in the group chat, you know he's on vacation, he's at resort, yeah, and he's just pumping the group chat all day, yeah, you're like buddy, like what the fuck are you doing? 

39:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I get it, but I don't like to judge. Like it's his life man and listen, he's on vacation. 

39:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So he's got Whatever he wants to do. And when you're on vacation, you got the time to pump the group chat. You might not usually, but still I got to say, as for this week, talking about spaces right now, it brings me right back to like university college. Yeah, about to walk into an exam room. I don't know any of the source, fucking material. I didn't keep up as much as I wanted in the past week. I feel naked. So, thank God, our boy Jay-Z. 

39:45 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Jay is here. You've got a resident expert. You can come cheat off my test. 

39:48 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'll let you look, my eyes are wandering, bro. 38-year-old Rob is not built for this. 

39:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like 24-year-old Rob, like girlfriend but not living together. You know that type of I mean I would be addicted, these things work on drug dealer hours. 

40:03 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yes, okay, you can't hit up a drug dealer at lunchtime because you want to meet up. Right? Guys are waking up till 4.30. It's true, okay, so everyone involved in the spaces. You don't have to be a drug dealer or do drugs to be on drug dealer time, but it seems like everyone in the spaces is on drug dealer time Now. A lot of pro gamblers, I believe a bit, live on drug dealer time hitting overnighters, yeah yeah. 

40:33
So I mean this is drug dealer time to the extreme. I I saw that thing went seven, like what the fuck happened last night. 

40:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I had so many DMs. 

40:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Where are you Like? Get in here now. What time are the? 

40:55 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
DMs 2 am right. 

40:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm like what the fuck is happening Like this is insane. I did that once I got into an argument with man of the library one night. I stayed way too late. I'm like I can't do this to myself again, because then I have to live my life the next day like I'm married. My wife is gonna get, and sure I can sleep in whenever I want to, but if I'm sleeping in every day like it's not, it's not a great look. You know I want to carry on my my life, so to speak, so I can't be in them. But uh, jay, I like there was a lot this I was looking at the guest list and I'm like this is insane. 

41:31
I did love this one by this meme by Chris Fucking art. Chris Dyrkus. 

41:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Art Chris. 10 of 10. Tweet from Chris. 

41:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's the meme for those who are listening, where it's the guy that's sweating and the caption. There is elf every night and he's got his two buttons. One is live arb, the other one is suck up to the scummiest people on gambling. 

41:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
This has to be hurting elf for it is I know that betting rob, you've been in the content game a long time, from from literally producing radio content to now. There is not like there's no money in what elf is doing doing. Well, he's got sponsorships, it's not I know what a sponsorship will pay. Yeah, okay, I know what Elf could be getting at a ceiling and I can assume what a bright kid like that would get arbing all night. 

42:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

42:21 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There's just no way water's finding its level here but good for him. 

42:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I guess, but he's also building a brand for himself. Spoiler alert we're going to have a Circles Off episode come back this Thursday. We haven't been doing the regular Circles Off interview-style shows. It's really hard to balance, especially during the end of football season. We're going to be getting back into those a little bit more. Elf will be on with us this Thursday. We're going to talk to him about Twitter spaces. It's more conversational and for those who want to make sure I ask the tough questions, I'll ask the tough questions. For sure. We're going to go down that path. So Elf, thursday 4 pm Eastern time. He runs circles off. But, jay, I mean, there was just an insane amount of stuff that happened. 

43:05 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Quick TLDR recap, I believe the Monday night, which again it's crazy. People will tweet at us on Monday night being like are you guys going to cover the Elf Spaces tomorrow morning on Circleback Guys? We record it the day of Monday. So if there's an Elf Spaces on Monday night, like I guess people are listening to this Tuesday yesterday night. 

43:21 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
We're not going to be able to react to it. In fairness to El, to talk about the gambling drama and a lot of and people are mad that we talk about the spaces but so much drama comes out of those spaces. 

43:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Listen no to people out there where they're like nobody. 

43:35 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There's 40 000 people listening to these, yeah, on a nightly basis, like the people care like, and there's 1600 it is almost like the center of the ecosystem right now and this show is about yucking it up about the ecosystem as long as Elf Spaces is on its trajectory, or keeping its not trending down or losing the audience and the conversation. It's only going to come up here for large segments of the show. We had Taylor Mathis on for two straight weeks but we're like don't talk about her again. She didn't do anything for a while. We stopped talking about her. 

44:13
If this house space stops doing something, we'll stop talking about it, but until then, we are in 100%. 

44:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jacob, can you hit the next slide here really quickly? So we have some stuff. We had this Meesee guy. 

44:32 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, so some stuff. We had this easy guy, yeah, so I'll just quickly run through day by day what happened Monday. 

44:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Monday night was an MPB type of spaces where this guy tennis, better tennis. 

44:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I got it before. Yeah, he's a. He's a fucking moron. Yeah, that guy's a more yelling at spank. 

44:38 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, he's comparing how much money they well I will say he's somewhat a smart enough guy where he's at least done research into what CLV is, where some guys would come on and just be like I don't care this guy listen, he's a fucking 22 year old idiot who is going against the wrong people okay, it would be nice to live in santa monica with an engineer father yeah, wouldn't it like like right, this is who can buy your way onto a college tennis team. 

45:04 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I know people that have their dads have bought their way onto college tennis teams. You do not impress me with your spot on a college tennis team that you then got kicked off of. 

45:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm that guy joining, by the way, is a license for me to leave. I tell you right now I'm so done with the. This is. This is the problem I'm personally having. I don't know if you guys agree to me. 

45:28 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Too many of the schticks are just like played out yeah at this point that was like I can, even I know what this guy's gonna say before he's gonna say it like I don't find this entertaining, though I will say it's entertaining that first of all he's down so much money to these bookies but then he says he's up, which is whatever. But you know, what you probably shouldn't do is go after a career criminal. Sorry, I don't want to say career criminal, but Gene, who has gone to jail, has admitted on these spaces that he's shot people Saying fuck this guy, you're a pussy, you're not going to do anything Gene offered to, and I hope he doesn't, god forbid. He's out of the game now, from what I understand. I don't know Gene very well. I don't know him at want to speak on him. 

46:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You guys are very. 

46:04 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's just like the gene boriello he has a podcast yeah, crime podcast, um, but he said he'd be willing to take on this guy's debts so that he could go smack him up in person. Basically, allegedly is what he said. And this mpb guy is like you're not gonna do shit, I wouldn't, I had. Do not have the balls to say that to someone who's killed someone. 

46:20 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, like to do that like that is absurd the way he talks to spanky who've like you needed someone dead, like said. I don't know whether this could be true or false, but like that's the guy I'd call to help make me, let me set it up. 

46:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I would not be threatening sorry, are you suggesting, if you needed to get someone taken out, spanky would be your go-to to help? 

46:41 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
me get in touch with someone who he like it. Yeah, in sports gambling. If I that would be the guy, he wouldn't do it, but I'm certain he could put me in contact with someone. He could connect you to the right person who would get me on the right path to doing it, because Rob, like I, don't like in my day school summer camp. I don't know anyone like that. 

47:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, I completely get it the one thing. So the MPB guy, we'll move on from him in a second. 

47:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Someone read out one of his bookies. Came on and read out his plays. These are like $30 bets. Yes, he's a small-time bettor. 

47:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He has come on to these spaces multiple times and he's like don't pay the bookies. These people are the scum of the earth. They're just out there to extract money from you. Don't pay them. Which is like no serious better is accumulating debts across the board and like ruining the reputation. This guy's a joke, yes. He's like three day free trial and then, uh you know, automatic renewal for $299 for the years. 

47:48 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Well, I tweeted about this and Elf was kind of laughing about this Hall of Fame-level scammer. I tried to tag Dub Club and all their CEOs, whatever and saying this is like how are you guys letting this happen? Elf responded to me saying come on, don't do that. That's not cool. That's like what happened to Boomer Bets. This is another thing that happened on these spaces. Boomer Betts is a troll on Twitter who got doxxed and got fired from his job because somebody he was tracking a pick seller's plays publicly. And the guy said fuck this, I found where you work. I have your boss's number. He emailed his boss and essentially got him fired from his he's a teacher from his teaching gig. Jesus, don't do that. 

48:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Why are you equating what I'm doing saying like don't let this guy sell picks on your platform to getting boomer fired from his teaching job that he went to school for five years for Well, I think that kind of boils down to the whole elf persona these days and you kind of said this too of like the first like five days of the spaces. If I was doing something else I'd be like, oh, like I wonder what's going on. Now, to me it's totally jumped the shark, like in the sense of there are still so many people on it, but it's the exact same every time. 

48:54 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But I had to get back in. I literally had to ask someone like for a timestamp. 

49:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That was good. 

49:01 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I need the timestamp. That's it for me now, because that's the only effing way. 

49:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Well, you hired that guy. 

49:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah but I so I was like, listen to this, this was great. I'm like you got to give me the exact time because I can't do it any other way. Well, I can't like I cannot commit. 

49:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I have a life. Are you saying I don't? 

49:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Well yes, kind of in a way. 

49:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But we're talking like six hour spaces. I'm not committing to wasting six hours of my life Like you tell me the next day, rob, you got to go back and listen to this. This is really entertaining. I'll go and do that. Some cases some rare in real time. Someone might reach out to me and be like you got to get in here, like right now. Sure, I'll do that, but I'm not going to be the guy when, like, the spaces starts at 7 PM or 8 PM or that, I'm in there, I get elevated as a speaker, like jason does. It's the same guys, it's the same crew. Every single I'm like. 

49:49 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I can't be this. I want to be in it right at the beginning and changing. I'll feel like springer does. 

49:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, well the difference so there's a big difference, right? So I've heard that comparison a million times. I might even offer that comparison. Jerry springer had multiple producers who were booking shows for him and they were trying to find the fucking craziest storylines out there. But they would book them and they'd get these people in studio. Springer didn't fucking fillet them for an hour. 

50:18
Springer would go in on them as well, like he, he or you know he was he. That that's kind of get. Like Elf, I get what he's doing. I understand why it's happening Like you're reaching out to guests. Come on, I'll protect you. You know this and that, but at some point I get it's tiresome for me it really is. 

50:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Elf gets an A to an A, plus of the grind of getting guests. 

50:42 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
For sure. 

50:43 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Meesee, that's a good guest. Mickey, that's like an amazing guest of, like a guy who's done a ton of. Youtube a ton of stuff and look, the thing about Mickey is either he has a baccarat edge that no one on earth has ever discovered in the history of the world, yeah, selling for $50 million, by the way. 

51:03
Or he is a scammer yeah, those are the two options. Or he is a scammer yeah, those are the two options. But the thing about Elf and it's honestly not even really his fault, but he has not been around long enough, he does not know enough about gambling and he is not confrontational enough as a person to take these guys on, and I tweeted about it last night People come on and start saying stuff, and Mickey, like it's so easy as a position of the being of being accused to lie because all these lies are unprovable. Mickey's like I'll bet you, I'll do this, oh, I know this guy, I'll call him up and like all those things are pretty unprovable. And elf is just yeah, oh, my god, that's such a good point. Oh yeah, yeah, great point it's, it's. 

51:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not like moderation at this point, it's it, you could be. You could be centrist he's not a centrist right and like give people their opportunity to come in and but like it's not happening. 

51:55
Yeah, and these are like, these are bad people, like this meesy guy oh yeah, I mean, like it's actually kind of my phone to sickening to see what I wrote scams that this guy is like he's just fucking living in like a miami high rise, enjoying life and he's laughing it up like there's not like there is, um, like you mentioned it earlier, rob, in the previous segment these younger guys like. 

52:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Sure there's a few out there that think they're winning betters when they're not, but the majority of them like they have no problem just being, yeah, scammer. It's like a cultural thing. They are totally cool like you know I don't like I I'm not diminishing what money and doing the job, but I don't know. It's just like they have fully know they are are scamming yeah, but but it like the, the money matters okay. 

52:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like like, think about when we work together our early 20s. I don't know what you were making, but I was making like 35 000 a year, something like that. Okay to just to be a producer for a radio station. And then it was like okay, rob, like you can go on air and it's like you're gonna get a pay bump to like 38, 40 000, something like that. Imagine someone came to me at that time and said hey, rob, you know what. You can sell your picks on this platform. You're gonna make 150 000 a year. I thought I was like literally a winner at that time. I would have done the same shit. 

53:25 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Okay, I agree it's like, but what about the people that know that they're scamming? That's my point. There's a lot of people. 

53:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, yes, that's why these people like Meesee what's the back rat guy? Mickey, mickey these guys are the worst of the worst, for sure, because they know what they are doing and they don't give a fuck. It's like you know what they are doing and they don't give a fuck. It's like you know what. If you're dumb enough to fall for this scam, then you know what it's like survival of the fittest. You deserve to lose your money. 

53:55 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Mickey's also said he would never sell plays, but there was an accusation out there that maybe someone used his name and image and likeness, but that he has a Discord that sells for $15,000 for a lifetime, lifetime subscription and he says he has a winning method in there. That's on the sports, but it's impossible to like lose to the sports books. So uh, I don't know. 

54:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Hopefully jack mack can follow up on that man of the big also had a great, because mickey, to me, has always been actually a pretty fascinating character of. It was obviously a grift, yes, but I wasn't exactly sure what the grift was. Go to man of the Vague's tweet. 

54:29 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah. 

54:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But it makes perfect sense to me that the grift is he claims he's this like tens of millions dollars winner. Yeah, goes on podcasts. Gets to meet celebrities Yep. Gets backers Yep, the backers put up their money up front. Yes, he gets rebates and lost backs whatever the term is in backer at. 

54:51
So he loses 10 million dollars, gets like a million of someone else's money, gets a million back from the casino and is lost back, but the 10 million was just from the backers and he was totally free rolled and he gets a million dollars out of that again. 

55:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's what man of the Vig was claiming speculation. Well, man of the the big was also claiming he runs like a prostitution ring and stuff like that? 

55:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
so it's like where do you draw the line on what's like real well no man of the big claimed he ran a prostitution ring and mickey very quickly agreed with that no, he said he did. 

55:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He said he said he had, he said he had had sex with prostitutes but he has never. 

55:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Oh, true, okay, maybe I heard that wrong, yeah, right. 

55:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like these fucking spaces go off the rate. Like that guy that joined from that is like, hey man, like I just want to step in here. Like we were, we partied together in the summer. Like I know who you are and they're going deeper into it. And he's like you were doing some like freaky shit and uh and mickey's like what are you talking about? Like he's like oh, you were, you were peeing and you're pissing in two girls. 

55:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I saw that on the corner like that's fucked up he's like no, I like that. 

55:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like that's what I want to do. Like, do you these? This is insane. Yeah, like what I'm listening to, I have to pause sometimes and rewind and be like like, because I'm often doing other things. I'm like did I just hear? Yeah, what just happened in this? Like it's crazy. 

56:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah no, that's, that's very true. And and tell me if I'm wrong here, but it seems as though there have been multiple people who use the spaces, meesy included, who kind of are getting back to the pick selling. Oh, they go on the spaces to launch a pick selling. 

56:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's the problem, yeah like and and it's like mickey, that guy back rat guy. I'm never smooth talker man. Yeah, as smooth as it comes. You know man of the vig comes in and you know, by the way, this whole man of the vig, he tweeted this. I think my character arc has been fully played out on elf spaces. I joined when I felt nobody would push Bo Wagner on real topics. Stuck around the grill a few more touts, asked Elf some uncomfortable questions on his moderation. There are plenty of people willing to do all of the above now I think my work is done. 

56:58 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Literally shows up every single night. I've never nailed a guy so well while having no idea who the fuck he is. In terms of like I've never been able to pin down. What do you think he looks like? I will say this this whole Bet Bash, I won't be at Bet Bash, but you better bring a voice box to Bet Bash buddy, Because it is, if I was at. Bet Bash and I heard that voice at a bar like four people over the light bulb would go off instantly. 

57:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's one of the most recognizable voices now. 

57:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It is a fiery, recognizable voice. It's just comedy. What happened? Because he went right back in. But again, his ability to go from great to horrible, horrible to great, the best to the worst, vice versa, instantaneously is a fucking talent. I am fascinated by him. Knowing who he is Not so much like his identity, just knowing about him. It's like a itch. I will get on itch. I will not. I will get on it, I will not stop. He has piqued my fascination because I have a friend who can go from horrible to amazing and vice versa, instantly and I love him and I'm so fascinated it is a talent that he could. You like him and then you hate him. One question later. 

58:31 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Have you seen because I've been getting tagged a lot in tweets responding there's one account on Twitter that thinks that he cracked the code on who he is. They're saying he's Nick from. 

58:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Capwise, I personally don't. That's why he says at the end of the tweet Nick. 

58:45 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I personally don't think you can listen to it. No, I don't even know who Nick is. I don't believe it. 

58:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
When I invested in BetStamp the first year that I was working with BetStamp, ben Carey and Nick from Capwise were doing a show together. I talked to Nick a few times. I don't believe it. Who started this rumor? 

59:06 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I don't know, they just said he sounds similar I would just say. 

59:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I would just say that's not a compliment and that person should apologize or pay reparations to nick for claiming like for this association, the big should pay nick for being no, no accusing nick of being man of the vague is so insulting to nick that there should be some make good on the part of the person making the accusation, like and and I don't really agree with you because I do like man of the vig he plays an important role. 

59:38
That doesn't mean he doesn't suck, he, he's clearly really there's commissioners that suck. They play important, important roles. 

59:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He's clearly very smart, too smart, but he is so Spectrum. 

59:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Because he can't drop an issue. 

59:51 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He has no self-awareness. He might be on the spectrum because he won't drop an issue. 

59:57 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He has no idea when a topic's 45 minutes in the past. 

01:00:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yes, but to drop this tweet like I'm retiring, I'm out Like one. Even if you were out, he could have just not showed up. He doesn't need to send an offensive paragraph and then to be on that night doing the exact same thing he's ever done. 

01:00:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's just even send to michael jordan like I'm back mean but when he was back um nfl pinnacle beat tweeted this, which completely sums up my opinion on this. He tweeted this guy, man of the vig, has me rooting for generational scammers, and you know what it's true, man of the vig he comes in and I switch teams on my side right yeah like he, he's supposed to be, like the guy that I, but I can't. 

01:00:45
I can't root for it. He makes himself so unlikable when he comes in with like it's like he's planned out this line of questioning and then something goes like astray astray somewhere and he just like pivots to something completely well, do you run a prostitution ringer and they're like what are you doing? 

01:01:01 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
but he's also got his line of questioning where it's like the worst form of interviewing yes, where you're not even you're no, but you're not even listening to the response. 

01:01:09
You have your question. The person could say something really like profound and interesting, but you got question three. Yeah, so you're done with what the response was to question two. Because, like, question three is next. I'm not even insulting. There's like, and it's a smart, it's, it's smart spectrum, because there's spectrum that's pure stupidity and like aloof. This is not that level spectrum. But his inability or to be able to pick up on responses or social cues leads me to believe this is. I would hear that voice, I'd see the spectrum act and I would know it. You hope I don't go to Bet Bash Vig if you're going to defend, because I'd pick you out. 

01:01:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'd pick you out. I would to defend man of the Vig, though he is fighting such an uphill battle, yes, of he's going against these guests and then has Elf, absolutely muting him sometimes, but you know exactly in love with Elmer. 

01:02:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's no reason for Sometimes. 

01:02:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Elf has to. 

01:02:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's a conversation happening. He doesn't know how to pick his spots. 

01:02:15 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
We're 45 minutes past, fezzik outing himself and George for 17-year-old girls, and he's like Elf, has moved this convo along. We spent a long enough time there. 

01:02:28 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Oh man, we got to circle that plane back around for another God for another Fezzik, george Gotcha, I will say it's because George kept saying the speed limit exists. But do I go the speed limit? And that's a fucking weird thing to say. 

01:02:41 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That's an insane thing, to say it's quite perverse George fucking rules, okay, quite perverse George fucking rules. 

01:02:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, I don't know. Okay, do you have your opinions on everyone? No, like. 

01:02:49 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's like entertainment. 

01:02:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like yeah, for entertainment purposes only. 

01:02:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
For sure. 

01:02:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
George freaking rules. Could you imagine being that old, living in your mom's house, never doing anything and having that much like confidence in everything you do? Congrats to him. I could not. 

01:03:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Speaking of entertainment, I found this one to be one of the most entertaining of the week. They had this dub club capper, official watson, on which I mean that space is in and of itself I I thought it was just okay, but the follow-up to it, where spinfluencer found, like these videos, 20 minute long videos that he'd done and he condensed them into these life of a Spinfluencer videos, I actually believe we'll link to this in the description below. We'll link to both of these because they are actually so good they must be watched. This is some of the funniest betting content that has ever been put out there and I think it's because he actually this official watson guy, takes like the capping so seriously but unseriously at the same time like he's just like he's dying to win for his clients. 

01:04:02
it's like I need to get, we need to hit this lay and this, but like it's the most unserious level of handicapping, this was so good man. 

01:04:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So good. I loved it At the year-end awards. This might be up there for content of the year. You will get a chance to award. Give this thing an award. It is that good. I promise you an opportunity to award this, this thing, an award. It is that good. We, I promise you an opportunity to award this thing. Rob, if you said I'm going to make an snl chapelle show, yeah, about betting, yes you would do this. 

01:04:40
This would be the clip and you'd write it. It'd be like it's too good, like you would literally be giving, like it would be the greatest clip ever. That's what I thought watching this. This is like if Chappelle's show did a skit on sports betting today. Yes, it's fucking art. 

01:04:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It really is. It's, I mean, you have to see it for yourself. Really. If you haven't watched it for yourself, like I said, we'll link it in the description below, but it's If you haven't watched it for yourself. 

01:05:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Like I said, we'll link it in the description below. You won't have a better four minutes of your day? 

01:05:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I totally agree. You will not. I mean it won't be four minutes. 

01:05:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It'll be 12 because you'll watch it three times over. There's no chance you're just going to watch it one time. 

01:05:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He drops. The perfect line of people in my dub club don't get it when they lose. I'm still winning. It's like oh okay, so you're admitting that it doesn't matter at all. 

01:05:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's driving around smoking. 

01:05:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's like if you ask for a GBT, the guy's smoking a blunt making up prize picks while driving. 

01:05:37 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's like how many hands do you have? It's crazy. 

01:05:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I used to have a friend back in the day that used to smoke cigarettes and try to change the CDs in the car while he was driving and like and try to change the cds in the car. I always be like jerry, like, no, like, I'll change and he's got like a coffee too. 

01:05:51
He's doing all these things like legs on the wheel. It reminded me of that. It's um, it's truly epic. But I, I think, like for the grand finale of the week happened on sunday night, and it would have to be. It was the spaces where Mickey joined. Mickey, excuse me, joined, but Mickey joined under the pretense that he would not allow Sean Perry to also be on, because they have a pre-existing beef. But Sean Perry joined later, well after midnight, and- 2 am 2 am. 

01:06:26
Sparks flew and he's been in. You know sean perry's made a comeback now. Uh, he, he had this welcome to my come out party three minute uh video where it's like you know he's gonna be taking over the internet. Had to buy a gun for protection which looks like he didn't cut the price tag from this still from this frozen image at the 8 second mark of this video. 

01:06:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't know if it's like weed. He looks high as fuck or as burnt out. 

01:06:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It could just be a fad crashing out. 

01:06:57 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
He shouldn't be someone who is owning a gun. If I'm being honest, I would agree. 

01:07:02 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That gun does look brand new, like it is fresh from the store. 

01:07:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, there was people. I was in a. 

01:07:09
I don't know guns I've actually never fired one Where- they were trying to like figure out what gun this was or whatever. It's like a $160 gun, I don't know. A lot of internet sleuths out there. Anyways, he's making this comeback, but like I also saw this beef he's I got a lot of beefs going on and like this is his whole thing. Like lots of people are lying about me, I'm coming out now and I'm setting the facts straight. He released this series of text messages that he had with with daniel negrano, where he was really upset that negrano um retweeted something about him and he reached out to him privately and said hey, man, like just want to know. This wasn't cool and he thought like he actually thought he was outing Negreanu as being like this terrible person. You read the message history and you're like Negreanu is like being very civilized and normal. He's just like you know. Like I don't view it the same way you did, but you know best of luck I wish you the best. 

01:08:09
And this guy's like. You don't fucking know what I'm doing. I'm hiring hundreds of people. My name's going to be all over the internet. I'm going to bring you down. It comes off as extremely unhinged, like the tagging the New York Post and the New York Times saying like, oh, I got a story about this guy that stiffed me and whatever. This is not like normal behavior. This is, I would be like mildly concerned. And then I heard him in the spaces and this guy just talked for like an hour straight like uninterrupted, just like but, but but, but, like so are there drugs I'm not going to like. 

01:08:47
Like he said that he'd been awake for five straight days, which is almost impossible to do without drugs. 

01:08:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He also tweeted like I'm about to break the internet. Tomorrow my podcast is dropping. Drop the podcast. It had like six likes. Like he's just. Yeah, he's crashing out, he's crashing out, he's very much crashing out. Hope he's okay, though. But but yeah, the negronu text as well. Like I read those and was like I had to reread it like four times to make sure that sean was the blue text, yeah, I'm like there's no way. 

01:09:15 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The person that's who was releasing this- yeah, like if, after having all the puzzle pieces, forgetting the past of perry, but just in the last week and then you heard in three days he had like a like a full-out breakdown episode and the police showed up, like it would just, it would literally be like the end of this story. That makes perfect sense for how deranged he sounded. Shout out, though, uh, because you did give me a time stamp when to check in and in my fat-thrum scrolling, I got there a little earlier to hear Sean. Let us know his bar mitzvah was poker-themed, so he's been gambling since. 

01:09:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Gambling he also made a bad Jewish joke. He is Jewish, yes, but somebody said like why are you always thinking about money? And he was like I'mish, it's like all like it was. You know, I was like that's probably pretty offensive for a lot of people in here. Well, I? 

01:10:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I think a lot of. I don't think you need to be jewish. There's a lot of people who aren't jewish, that are, who are on the good or bad side of money, who are going to be up at night thinking about it yeah, I mean I, I found it like little yeah what I. 

01:10:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What I found interesting about these spaces is that he came in with like all these people that are like are his friend and not all these people but like. Here's an example. It comes into the spaces he talks about how Circa runs a great business. You know, jeffrey Benson, good guy, they used to take over bets from me. 

01:10:44 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Then they just reduced my limits back down to the standard limits or whatever offended by that, by the way, as if, like every, if you win at betting, that's just normal sure, but but jeff benson shows up in the space, is like hey, what's going on? 

01:10:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
like they're and they're they're chatting, and he kind of, like you know, explains that that exact situation. Jeff's, like you know, just just to be clear, like you didn't take us to the cleaners, you're like a lifetime loser on the account and, like you know, from there kind of like pivots a little bit. But later the stuff with Spanky you know Spanky was in that spaces from the start and Sean came in and there's like three or four times where he tries to get Spanky to vouch for him. He's like Spanky, you're a winning better. You know, like we have, we have overlap with guys that we work. You know that I win like 10, 10. And Spanky doesn't do it. And then at one point Spanky flat out comes out and says I cannot vouch for you. Like I know some people that you work with that win but I can't vouch for you and I question why someone who wins at the rate that you would would be selling these pick packages and from there, boom, flipped on its head and fucking fireworks dude nuclear. 

01:12:02 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I will just say as like a total, like at that level, like a casual, his response to selling picks until you hit, like I give Spanky his like grand poobah status. Yes, and I do think if we were doing total minutes of the spaces, listen, like he'd be the league leader, but he probably feels it's his obligation as, like the grand poobah of all of it for the, for those not familiar with the grand, it's like it's just like that, just like the guy at like who sees and hears all like oz is that like? 

01:12:40 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
is that? It's a common term, by the way. 

01:12:41 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Sorry, grand poobah I think uh, like you know exactly what I meant. I have absolutely no, I don't know who that is. I don't know what character I'm speaking of, but yeah, I think there's a delineation of like this is a top five Jeffism. 

01:12:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Fezzik for sure knows what you're talking about. He'll tweet about it this week. 

01:13:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
What was Perry's reaction to the pick selling he? 

01:13:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
said I sell picks To get people who can afford my service. They are, like he assumes, like high net worth people who have the exact types of accounts. Then I partner with them and we crush it together Like it just helps him get a consortium of VIP name the street book account. That was sort of like I use the subscribers to my own benefit. 

01:13:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was almost like another way he kept saying over and over that he has 6,000 accounts. 

01:13:42 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
He said 60,000 first, by the way. 

01:13:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But then you hear someone smarter saying like that's actually. Yeah, doesn't work, logistical nightmare, yeah. 

01:13:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I mean post. So once spanky didn't agree, then then we got like some real. You know, sean, what I don't like about sean is a lot of the terminology that he uses and like a lot of this. You know, he kept going on and on about like if I was only betting the amount that you're betting, I would kill myself. He said that to spanky about five times. If I was only betting a hundred thousand dollars a game, I would put a bullet in my head is what he kept saying over and, over and over. 

01:14:17
He tweeted this right after the show and then deleted it. This is for spanky. If I was your age, betting as small as you are, put a bullet in my fucking head and go listen to your boss and sit down and listen. Little boy, I'm my own boss. You're a fucking servant. Eat a dick. 

01:14:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He is he is sports gambling kanye. Yeah, oh my god, like the way he's just talking to people like he is essentially playing that lane like I'm going to do. Kanye, for the sports gambling ecosystem yeah, it's funny that who? 

01:14:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
fucking writes that. 

01:14:47 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
No, this is. This is crashing out as well. I'm happy to like to the crash out. 

01:14:52 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Someone got to him whether it was his own brain getting to his senses to delete that. Yeah. I don't know which with the fucking comedown he was on. I don't know he had the wherewithal to delete that. 

01:15:03 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I listened to probably 30 minutes of Spaces this week. The fact that two of the parts I listened to are Sean Perry and MPB questioning how much money Spanky has made betting Like I can't say I'm familiar with the exact amount Spanky has made betting, but I've heard rumors and like the idea of that's what people are coming at Spanky with is just really fucking funny and and that to me is kind of the entertaining part about spaces of like people will be talking to people with no knowledge of like how big you know it can be. 

01:15:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There was this. There was a part in in this particular one where brett fine saw nba green beans came in and he started like asking and I'm just like get this fucking. You know, like what is this guy talking? 

01:15:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
about like you know how much you could. Honestly, if you saw the like crown molding in spanky's house, you'd probably have an idea but it's not in sports gambling I mean, that's a compliment. I know spanky well right and like. 

01:16:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We used to be enemies and now I would consider spanky a friend, right like he's, not like sean is. I could, I could feel spanky's pain through the argument because spanky is like he has like a moral high ground. You could see that he was getting upset at points and he'd come in and be like fuck you this. But he didn't want to talk on stuff that he felt might violate a code. 

01:16:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yes, where he's like, okay you're gonna come at like spanky's his own when he's like okay, you're going to come at. 

01:16:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Spanky's his own boss. He's not reporting to anyone else, he runs his own. He barely even is part of the daily operation anymore because he's got a team of guys that's doing stuff for him. 

01:16:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Do you know how much you would have to piss off Spanky for him to want to get back at you? Like the way that match points or talk to it Like Spanky would put up with so much shit on the internet, like I say that as someone that has probably misrepresented a situation at time to time, like to get to the level of pissing him off. You probably have to cross such a fucking line. 

01:17:07 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I know I was going to say, say, I was gonna ask you this when was the last time you saw spanky kind of do this publicly towards people, in the sense that like no, because he's pretty reserved when it comes to twitter nowadays, like he kind of has be better, betters, has his stuff like um, yeah, like he will probably like a. 

01:17:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think I'm giving away too much here, but like when he's really pissed about something, he'll privately message me. He'll be like hey, rob, you have some time to chat and we'll chat and we'll just like talk through it. This one was just tough because, like there there was a name that, like the name Sam, came up. 

01:17:36
Yeah, not losing better by the way Not Sam losing better, but basically like you know Sean, allegations and all these things, adam, and you know from what I'm I'm trying to like ascertain what's happening, but it's. It really sounded like and I haven't confirmed this, but it sounded like spanky. At some point reached out to sean about potentially being a beard for him. That didn't materialize or anything. But they have some sort of mutual friend where there's some sort of overlap. Sounds like the guy's name was sam and it kind of sounded like spanky. Just like I don't want to take this further and get into this back and forth argument with you out of respect for this guy that you're working with. That I like type of situation and he just had to sit there and eat shit for half an hour and I mean, at some point he got triggered enough. But like I, I do think as time progresses, there's like way more to that story than the average person tuning into that spaces would realize. 

01:18:38 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, you know what I'm saying yeah and I mean, yeah, just the way that sean's I. I don't know anything about sean perry, but I would listen back to it this morning I literally fell asleep phone in hand, listening to the spaces last night. 

01:18:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And I wish I didn't Dick in hand probably Jesus Christ. You've got two hands. Well, you were probably beating it to that guy's wife. 

01:18:59 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
PC betters, or whatever you want to do this, we can do this. 

01:19:04 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't want to do this until we wrap up. I think we've wrapped up. 

01:19:06 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
No, no, I was just going to say Sean Perry's probably a beard, I don't know, and I wish someone pressed him on this on this space. But it was also 2 am, so I don't blame anyone for not pressing him at all. 

01:19:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, sean Perry, I'm sure I mean, I'm sure he's making a lot of money through the pick service, oh for sure salary, but he's selling plays for a thousand dollars. He's, yeah, but he's making a ton like there are guys that are great promoters, right, and he promotes in a way that is Vegas. Dave, but it's not Vegas. Like Vegas, dave puts out a video before baseball season. Like I, went 72 and 0 last year. 

01:19:41 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Like you, can see through. Sean Perry goes. I'm out in a 9090 run, but that's crazy, like I'm just running hot Vegas. Dave would be like you're right, you watch him trying to sell the MLB package I haven't lost in 398 days, would be like, and that's how it's going to be again. 

01:19:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, Sean is like he understands the space He'll talk about when he lost. I lost $250,000 betting this game. But he understands that even saying he's betting, that amount is going to draw people to him of course, for sure like so there's, there's. 

01:20:12
He's not an idiot, he's making a ton of money for sure from the touting. I have no idea. Like his whole story about how he runs is he's like oh yeah, I don't, I don't run, I don't want to sit behind my desk and run the models every day and whatever. It's like a waste of my time. I got a team that does it and whatever. I know everything about sports analytics, I could tell you right now everything about every league like it's all it's show, it's all show it's promote. He knows how to speak. He's not stupid, but I, I mean I think he was in a bad state when he entered that just based off of like the talking, the non-stop talking um the tweet post and like how he quickly flipped, like on in an instant on spanky there. But uh, yeah, we do got. 

01:20:56 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I mean just we can go back to me because it's crazy. We talked about all this stuff and also the craziest part is that we haven't even touched on the betting queen who went into spaces and she oh, everyone knows she doesn't have an edge, but quickly she's like yeah, no, I definitely don't have an edge, and the best part of that space, which was the lays it. I felt bad. I didn't want to talk to her because it felt like punching down. She was very obviously knows what she's doing. 

01:21:14
Right, she has her boyfriend in the background coaching her as to what she should say, and you could clearly hear it uh, but anyways, that's how big these, these spaces have been this past week is that we're not even talking about the betting queen, who's one of the biggest? I don't know if it's scammers, but anyways, meesy, who is I mean, I don't know, this guy's the scam people on discords. He scammed people for his twitter account. Cash out king bought his twitter account. He said um, someone told me that he tried to sell his twitter account to six different people, charged them all 6k, got sent to it all through a crypto wallet. 

01:21:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Never gave them any of those guys their twitter accounts, so scammed a bunch of people out of 30k this guy's also gone to a casino, lost a bunch of money on credit, refused to pay it back. 

01:21:50 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I gotta find my phone must be nice man it's crazy, but he ended up getting arrested for all this stuff. Now this guy, classic, tout move, comes back during March Madness to clear his name goes on the. 

01:22:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Twitter page apologize to the community, sorry guys. 

01:22:02 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
well, how about you go pay back the people who you owe $6,000 to if you're winning these $20 fucking dollar parlays that you're posting on Twitter Like go pay those fucking people back. So he's starting up his Discord and the reason why I wanted to bring this up is because go back, jacob, I didn't see this. He has a Sharptool in his Twitter account. So Sharptool, for those who don't know, is basically a dub club WAP clone who, or whoop, wop Clone who or Whoop, whatever the fuck it's called who I mean. The people who run it think they're God's gift to Earth. I got into it with one of the Sharp Duel guys. 

01:22:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Those guys are the which one BC no. 

01:22:34 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I think it was EV Longshots maybe. 

01:22:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One of them. It was one of the first faces I ever joined. It was the. Maybe I'm being a little nice. Yeah, no, no, it's fine. It's hard to keep all this shit together, but it's hard to tell which one. 

01:22:49 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
if the Avis keep getting switched, it's hard to know. 

01:22:52 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
SharpDuel. They think they're God's gift to Earth in the sense that they are banning people who are outwardly scamming. Congratulations. But you know, what else they say they should be rewarded for is that they're planning on implementing a. You created the fucking product, but implement it before you release it. Implement bc putts. Implement that shit before you release it. I'm we're creating ev tools. They're coming down the pipeline. 

01:23:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Implement that shit before you bc putts has bigger problems okay so can you provide the context to my um jerking off to his girlfriend? This wasn't even on elf spaces, this was on omar spaces, which is something we got to talk about in the near future the elf versus omar stuff this wasn't even on Elf Spaces. 

01:23:26 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
This was on Omar Spaces, which is something we've got to talk about in the near future the Elf versus Omar stuff. I mean it's crazy what happened there. 

01:23:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Maybe that'll come up on your interview. Yeah, maybe. 

01:23:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean Omar's tagging me every single day on Twitter with a clown emoji. 

01:23:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He's also crashing. I mean this guy's doing 12-hour spaces. 

01:23:42 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
He's got 150 of the views of like I feel bad for the guy, but like your product is not good so give it to us what happened with bc putts. I believe it was billionaire bets or some or or cover. I forget. I forget who. Someone leaked his wife right and this guy, instead of like response in his response to it, is that my, my wife isn't fat. 

01:24:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, he no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You got it wrong. This is what happened. 

01:24:04 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't even know, I'm not even in this, you go, I got Kurt. You go, kurt. Thank you. 

01:24:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Someone called his wife fat on a spaces, On a Twitter spaces Again someone who obviously had absolutely no idea what his wife was, who his wife was, just an absolute troll. Then BC got into DMs with that guy, sent a picture of his wife and was like my wife is not fat, she's beautiful, yes. Then he tweeted the pictures of those DMs, which was baffling to me. Then he made some sort of crude joke on a space about people jerking off to his wife. 

01:24:44 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
That's the biggest thing and by the way, you listen to the spaces you outed yourself. Anyways, keep going. 

01:24:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That was last week. Listen, if something's happening before 1030 on the space, I can catch it yeah. 

01:24:55 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
So this was even on an else. This is on. Omar space and shut up to losing better for clipping it, because they wouldn't have that clip if it wasn't for losing better. This is where I come in. 

01:25:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
This is where I come in. I'm just listening to a space. I don't know the backstory. The backstory is then being told Losing Better, I guess, clips it. So thank you for Losing Better. It was one of the most pathetic conversations we've ever heard. I don't know what's wrong with the younger generation right now. 

01:25:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What about Kirk's younger generation? 

01:25:34 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Don't let us into this. 

01:25:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This guy's just well, not all of the Gen Z's are a disaster? 

01:25:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, but I argued with someone who I'm actually friends with on Twitter. He was like oh no, people's wives and girlfriends would want them defended. I'm like what are you talking about? No one's wife or girlfriend gives a fuck about what's so cruel. 

01:25:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If I say something about my wife on Twitter, I'm not engaging in a fucking six-hour war about it. 

01:25:59 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
This guy also has an alias His picture was a picture of him as a baby. Nobody knew what this guy looked like or who he was. He just outed himself. 

01:26:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And credit to him. He acknowledged in the space I heard that was a wrong move, tweeting the guy the picture of his wife that was the wrong move. 

01:26:17
Who cares if someone called your wife fat. There's no era of the internet where my wife would have ever given a shit Back in the day. On message boards, on a website a covers website there's no way. But he comes in there and I'm going to paraphrase now. But it was one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard. Bc, I hope you have a prenup. It looks like there's some nice southern coins somewhere in there some vineyard vines some nice what do you call it? 

01:26:50
the South Carolina colors, the pattern. What is that nice pattern? 

01:26:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
No, it kind of looks like a plaid. 

01:26:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know what you're talking about. 

01:27:01 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm so mad, I didn't get it. 

01:27:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not a patterns guy. I'm not a patterns guy. I'm sorry, Nonetheless. 

01:27:07 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I hope there's a prenup there because he said anyone in here who's married would understand you would do this for your wife. You would do this for you. You would change. Like his wife demanded he change his avatar to show her and he did it. And then he let people know like you got you guys arguing that you're not married. You do not understand. 

01:27:34
His wife must be the most I'm trying to find a different word, but, like, if you're smarter than me, find a nicer word the most. Like basic bitch around. Like so basic, like like lovely yeah, blonde hair, mayonnaise skin, like just lovely. But I'm telling you I'm going to do you a favor right now. Bc, you've never fucked in anything but missionary. So this weekend your wife is going to hear this and you're going to have the time of your fucking life because she's out to prove the internet wrong. But this is the most basic bitch thing I've ever heard. Sorry, she's not the basic bitch, he's the basic bitch. She's the basic bitch. Your wife's lovely, lovely woman. This weekend you're going to have fun. You're going to have fun. You just play this for her. I'll feed right into your wheelhouse. 

01:28:29
It was so pathetic. I've been married 10. I'm shaking. I've been married 10 years with three kids, happily okay. People all over us in our orbit, divorce here, divorce there. All my wife wants to do is flex pictures of our full family unit because it's perfect. Ten years in three kids, not in a million years. Change your avi for my honor. 

01:28:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If my wife came to me and said you know what? Like this guy talked shit about me online, like I want you to send them some pictures and like change the avi, I would think it's a joke. Like there's no way that could be a real. 

01:29:08 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It actually might make me reevaluate my life. 

01:29:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not the fucking weirdo on the internet who called her fat? 

01:29:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
who's never met her? Who doesn't know her? It is her. 

01:29:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It is her wait, but not never met her, doesn't know. Her also has no fucking clue what she looks like. 

01:29:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, now she does, now he does, he talks to him, for this is really really good yeah. 

01:29:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
How about that picture, though, of the master class have better sex with you? 

01:29:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh my God, yeah that happened while I was, which obviously was like a funny accident. I think that they marked or did someone alter that, I think. No. 

01:29:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Because I didn't know if that was like they screwed up. 

01:29:45 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
No, it doesn't look edited. It looks like they fucked up. 

01:29:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It was edited. 

01:29:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, okay, which makes sense, I found it hilarious, by the way, like that was a really funny joke. 

01:29:52 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Maybe BC Plus should be in that. Maybe, maybe, maybe. 

01:29:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're doing a giveaway over here on Circles Off. Got that sweater that Jizzy J is wearing? It's a Circles Off hoodie. We got some more swag. We also got some BetStamp swag that they're going to include in this giveaway as well. So if you want to win some swag, all you got to do to be entered in the giveaway three simple things Be subbed here on the Circles Off YouTube channel. 

01:30:18
Be subbed or follow us on any other social platform Circles Off HQ, on Twitter or on Instagram or on Tik TOK and, of course, leave a comment. It could be about anything related to today's show. Leave a comment three things. Follow us here. Follow us on another social platform. Leave a content. You're entered in a draw to win some good swag and it actually is good swag. We buy quality swag stuff that can go in the wash. It doesn't come out shitty stuff like that. So do that. Dave. Loran, loran I think that's how I pronounce it. Lowey D tweeted this week. The true scumbaggery of a sports book like ESPN isn't the limiting itself, it's them hitting you with crippling limits, even if you're down. I recently registered, was down $800 in five days, then immediately limited to $2 max wagers with no chance of making it back legal thievery this alt. 

01:31:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I feel like I've talked about this on the show the past like five episodes, but again and I tweeted about this week for whatever reason, these people believe that sports books aren't businesses trying to make money. Yep, yep, they're corporations that owe people money and owe them to allow them to make money. Obviously, espn saw sharp tendencies in your bets and decided to not allow you to bet. They don't owe you anything. It's not thievery, it's called business. Businesses need to make money. 

01:31:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Business ethics. I actually think that you should never be limited when you've never won a cent on the buck. Your bet has a 6% edge. Try to win your money back. There's still a 44% chance you're going to lose that bet. Why would the bucks ever allow that they came in and let you take your money? 

01:32:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
we're having a. We're having separate conversations, because this is real world, what kirk's speaking to. You're speaking to theoretical world, like you're saying that there should be regulations in place. 

01:32:18 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, that you can't be banned if you've never even taken the book for a dollar. Because you've got, because you get, fucking, uh, some points on a fucking money line bet or something. I totally disagree and apologies, but it's all their fucking fault. The way they advertise, the way they sell themselves, hold on, the customer has no different expectation. This is maybe the fault of you, could say, the stupid customer. No different expectation. This is maybe the fault of you, could say, the stupid customer. But this is that they're dealing with no different than when they go into fucking Target or into Best Buy, that there is some level of like customer, like some relationship between the place of service and the customer. That could be a false, that could be a very dumb way of thinking about it, but the way that they present themselves, they put it out there like that sure, and. 

01:33:14 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But again, this guy's obviously been banned from sportsbooks before and understands it like. I get it. If you're actually not like an expectation of winning, better to get pissed off. If you hit a couple lines, they moved your way and you got banned. But this guy knows that you get fucking banned. He's probably putting in plays that a hundred other bettors are putting in and they're limiting him. That's what happens. 

01:33:39 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's also, like I want to say, not a skill issue, but it's a skill to be able to mask your action right, Absolutely a skill issue. He definitely went in to know that he was going to get probably limited right, so like who gives a shit he lost like to just win a cent and they're up on him so there's company, there's like uh, american betters voice but the skill the skill to me is should be irrelevant in this. 

01:34:03 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
At a certain point that comes into play and the books can chop your nuts off and I will not stand for you. I will not stand for Dave if he won $1,000 and they said that's $1,000 too much, you're done. But here I will. 

01:34:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've been in situations like this before. People will then and I think fairly say to me like then, rob, you're an idiot if you lost a bunch of money on a book and still found yourself limited. And I would agree with them because I understand the circumstances and, like I understand the world that we live in now, where these sports books I mean if, if, if I do a bad enough job where I'm going to lose and I've still showcased to the sports book that I'm going to be a long-term winner, I believe's on me. 

01:34:46
But to your point, jeff, I don't sure but to your point and I will agree with you like I think there's also a larger conversation to be had about just limiting in general. In general, like I talked about american better's voice I've spoke about this on the circles off podcast before where I'm like I don't like other people arguing on my behalf like do I, do I want somebody to to go to every regulatory body and say, well, there needs to be people, need to be able to get at least 50 down on everything. But then guess what, half my options disappear on same game parlays because they don't want to take the. I don't want that to happen. But I do think that I sometimes fall into the area of Kirk here, where I get like I let the sports books off the hook for doing something that is shitty. We've just had this happen so much now. I don't think it's shitty. 

01:35:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Why is it shitty? It's like there are plenty of shitty things the sports books do. To me, an insanely shitty thing the sports books do is they'll let you deposit unlimited amounts but then, when you win, they KOC you when you're trying to withdraw. Yeah, that is scumbaggery behavior. 

01:35:54 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
This is on the same tier. No, I completely agree. Yeah, you don't have a cent. Once you win a dollar, then maybe, but keep allowing the person to. 

01:36:03 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But why would? 

01:36:04 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Why shouldn't someone be allowed an opportunity to win fucking $800? 

01:36:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
back. Why would a sports book? It's clearly in their best interest if they profile you as a winner Again you're just too like I'm not trying to be a fuck. 

01:36:15 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
What's his name? Sorry, we'll go golfing this summer, plus CV analytics. Like I'm not trying to be that guy. I think I'm on record enough to show that I can go both ways, but no, you have just accepted something that's wrong as to being right. 

01:36:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I just don't think it's wrong. There are books that will let you play, that will not ban you. If you want to try winning at those books, give it a go. No book should ban you when you've never taken a dollar out of it. But that's just a moral ground that you're setting. You guys are not going to get anywhere on this I'm very interested in this. 

01:36:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
in the comments I get a good deal on it. 

01:36:54 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Best Buy misprices something I get a good deal on it. They're not telling me not to fucking shop there again. They're not telling me not to shop there. It's just a different scenario. I understand, but the expectation, the way these books present themselves to the customer, is fraudulent. So it is okay for the customer to feel that way, even if Dave is smarter than that, because he seems like a regular better. So this is a bad example. 

01:37:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But I agree with you in the sense of the way the books present themselves is a part of something shitty that they do. But that's not what we're talking about. 

01:37:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're talking about what, no because they limit, but they do kind of go hand in hand. 

01:37:33 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They do go hand in hand, because there's an expectation that I'm going to be treated the same way that I am when I'm shopping at a popular big box store and that there is some level of like. Okay, I don't want to say customer like, not make good, but again, I should not. You should never be banned from a book. You literally have not won a dollar on. So. But the only problem, they should take your plus ev bets until you win a dollar. 

01:38:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But here's the way till. I tell you that they're sports books that share the same trading software, where you're limited immediately upon signing. 

01:38:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I know that. 

01:38:11 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
That is happening. 

01:38:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That fucking sucks. 

01:38:14 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And what you're talking about is like when PointsBet bans me Because I declared last summer the summer of Tom Kim. And I'm betting him at 60 to 1 he goes off at 45 and they think I'm some sharp and don't let me bet more than $5. Again, a little different. 

01:38:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For me it's like if I bet on Bet Rivers and I take them to the cleaners and then I go sign up at Cosumo, who uses the same trading card. Yeah, it's all the same. 

01:38:34 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It can be all that shit, but I'm saying I am the person that's not expecting to win on a golf bet getting banned. So I am like like annoyed about that, uh, because I don't even look at it from like the sharp perspective. 

01:38:49 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
But again, I the problem arises with what you're saying, jeff. I somewhat agree with you. The problem is, though, is like let's say, someone is down hundreds of thousand dollars in an account, right, because they're a absolute fish, but they're a whale who has a ton of money they're down to burn out burn, so now we're kicking them off. 

01:39:03
So no, we're not kicking them off now, but this but you, you, you said that people should not be banned if they're down, right, but what happens if a sharp guy gets, gets a hold of that account and is a beard. 

01:39:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Now he's not finding it sportsbook too. 

01:39:13 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
That's one of the challenges in the space right so they are now gonna have to defend themselves, if they like, against those okay, sorry. 

01:39:20 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So now, like we are arguing, we're arguing semantics of it uh, if you're down 100k and a guy comes in and gets like 70 back, I get it. I said you can't be banned if you're down. 

01:39:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're not talking about 800 like now you're doing the semantics, but it is a realistic possibility like to jason's point and this does happen in a lot of spaces you will. You have people seeking out vip accounts at legal sportsbooks. So someone who's lost a lot of money there, now all of a sudden a real sharp better takes over that account and let's say they start displaying different betting behaviors. Yeah, at what point do you bet? At what point? Yeah. 

01:39:58 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Okay, yeah, you're right, but again this person seems like they were in there for a week. They didn't win a single fucking thing. 

01:40:03 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I disagree with that. I think this guy knows exactly what he's doing. 

01:40:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Okay fine, I think he knows exactly what he's doing. I'm talking about this different, because this happens. 

01:40:10 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It might not be his first, I don't want to say anything. But yeah, this might not be the first time it's happened to him. 

01:40:14 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Okay, at $800, should not be when the rug is pulled. 

01:40:18 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I've been down more on accounts and been banned. 

01:40:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I just don't know. 

01:40:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, talking in the hypothetical, who is enforcing this rule like it should be regulated? No, I don't fucking know. Well, it has to be. If it has to be at a regular regulatory level, there should just be like a modicum of a fucking like class on the other side I 

01:40:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
just yeah, I don't agree, but I don't think we'll ever agree. There's stores that exist for that. 

01:40:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There's books that exist for that, if you want that right I understand, but at eight hundred it should not be time to go for one week For the average person. 

01:40:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
to Jeff's point, though like for my friends who don't even know that limiting is a thing. They don't know the difference between a BetMGM and a Pinnacle. They have no fucking clue. 

01:41:00 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
See, even my friends who are hyper-casual, they still know, they still want the best price. You saying people don't line shop and shit, like when we're discussing Portnoy parlays. I unequivocally disagree in the sense that go fucking see the line at the gas station when they drop it by four cents and you're going to tell me the same people aren't looking for the best price and other things. 

01:41:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't believe you, there's a bit of a barrier to entry, though in the sports betting space, because you actually have to manually make a deposit. Yeah, at the gas station, you could pull cash out of your pocket credit card. 

01:41:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's no issue for this you actually I'm saying go look at what happens on free slushy day and you're telling me people don't care about price. That is true. Like I don't. I don't believe you. Like I, I believe consumers are the same people yes're going to Now we've gone to a different direction. 

01:41:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, no, I'm very interested in the people letting us know what they think about this topic, because my vision is blurred on this, because but you've also just accepted something that's wrong because it's how it is, but it's still wrong. It may or may not be, and I don't know. At 800 for a week in an account, but they've identified him as a sharp, better. They should be able to limit him under the current. 

01:42:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, under their rules, the Dodgers should be able to defer contracts to 2040 under the current rules. That's okay. It's fine. You raised some good points. When the commissioner talks about it. He's like they're not breaking a rule. 

01:42:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, no, you raised some good points. When the commissioner talks about it, he's like it's they're not breaking a rule. Yeah, no, you raised some good points. Uh, we had grateful keg this week. Uh, tweet this uh caught me. Uh, I mean, I haven't seen a tweet like this in a long time probably in the minority here but I miss good writing when it comes to talking about sports betting. 

01:42:46
Sure, some people probably scroll to the bottom of an article and just tail the picks, but everything now falls into one of four categories Regurgitated stats and trends covered in SEO. Slop CLV merchant filling word count Tout with a ton of followers writing eight sentences at a fifth grade level, driving clicks or just straight up picks no writing at all. Sadly, I don't even think it's the people doing the handicappings fault, not as many people want to understand. They just want winners, podcast, slash, tiktoks, much more ad revenue. Upside sites just want clicks. Seo is the devil. There are some good ones out there, but the oversaturation of pro sports better sucks anyway at someone who actually knows ball and writes. Well. Need more guys to follow. Uh, found this interesting. Um, first of all because, like I didn't even realize, people are still looking for uh, you know, like articles, articles, so to speak, which is a bad time to promo kirk's hand but I agree, yeah, I'm like trying to think back. 

01:43:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
like the only thing I could really think of of like reading about sports betting other than like the big articles that come up every now and then are like mostly reading like cappers, like descriptions on Twitter which, yeah, make my blood boil. But, yeah, it's true, but again, it's just because, like it's what get clicks. 

01:44:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Didn't Justin Bates have a sub stack that had some very intriguing things? But yeah, there's nothing In politics. There's some long forms on both sides. People are still interested. I don't know. I think he is in the hyper minority, huge, and there's no money in it. 

01:44:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The way people consume content is always going to change over time. Right, like when I was growing up we didn't have Netflix or anything where I could watch content on demand. I had to wait till Sunday night for the Sopranos to come out on HBO and I had to watch it live, and if I didn't it was going to be spoiled for me the next day at work. Like there's part of me that's like you know what. It kind of would be cool if we didn't have everything available at all times. 

01:44:55 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I guess I pine for those days sometimes, but the funny thing is, is every piece of like this show right now someone choosing to watch this show on YouTube? I don't want want to lower our viewers or make them leave, but everything you put out, anyone puts out, is competing against the sopranos. Yeah, because I can watch the sopranos at any time, like every. That's the thing about the entertainment space. In the content space, you are competing against every piece of content ever fucking made because it's as equally accessible as this stupid YouTube show. 

01:45:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, it's true. No, he's right. I mean listen, this is like my numbingly dumb show. 

01:45:33 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, I love doing this show. I wake up excited to do this show, but I'm just saying you're farting the wind on YouTube. 

01:45:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What I really wonder about this is that you'll remember, back in the day at the score, I used to write a 5 000 word article every single nfl week. I was like the nfl handicapper for the scorecom and or scoreca, whatever, and it used to get like a lot of reads. And then at some point they just came to me and they're like, hey, rob, like you gotta, you gotta start condensing this. Like we can't do. We can't do this amount of words anymore. Did I say 5 000 is 50 000, holy 50 000. It used to take me like two full days to write the thing. Yeah, and they came to me and they're like no, no, no, you're doing a hundred words on each game. 

01:46:20
I said, no, I'm not going to do this anymore because I can't write short form. I personally can't. I'm very long, long winded, but like the, they were like people are just scrolling here, they're showing me heat charts. People are just scrolling to every single one of your picks and they're not reading the content. I'm like, okay, fine, and I started doing podcast stuff instead and like more people started listening to that. It just like people don't have time to read sport. 

01:46:47
Like I want what kind of good on a daily basis. Let's say like picks articles. There's no such thing as good picks. If it was good, it's like touting right. We did this with John Fendler on the Hammer okay, where he would write a college football article that we put out every Monday morning. Guess what, when we dropped that article within two minutes, everything was blasted. Now the handicap is obsolete. It doesn't matter. This is how betting markets work. 

01:47:17 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
But on top of that as well, the person who's writing this stuff let's say they're new, they're starting out and they're actually really good at betting what do you think the first thing they're going to chop from their process? If this is called a part of their process, what's the first thing they're going to chop from their process? Uh, if this is like, let's call it a part of the process, what's the first thing they're going to chop to try and make more money? It's probably this right, like it's going to be the writing content. The only people who are going to be into like doing this stuff is people who are just willing to do it for the love of the game yeah, well, and then this is a great plug for kirk's hammer love of the game because you can get kirk's hammer in your box day Once a week, I should say Once a week. 

01:47:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
There's not going to be pecs in the articles. You're not even necessarily going to be, and maybe I'm doing a really bad job plugging this but you're not going to necessarily be a better better reading it, but I think it's interesting. I've been betting for a long time, as much as people who watch this show really don't like to think so I am very good. 

01:48:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're a trust fund kid. I think I saw on twitter you're a trust fund. 

01:48:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Kid you and johnny are trust. 

01:48:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're also really short, apparently all the time. You're the tallest one in this room? 

01:48:15 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
yeah, I don't I don't. 

01:48:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't get why I get that so much, but whatever, um new one drops tomorrow I think it's good, but I will say, to give some credence to the tweet, the subscribers, the click through, the reaction was far better than I expected it to be, so maybe there are people pining for you know just good, thoughtful content that doesn't necessarily have picks, or is you know how to live art. 

01:48:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, it's the same people who watch the Circles Off interviews that I do. Right, they're never going to be mass market, they're never going to get like 100k views per episode, but they'll get between 5 and 10 and you get like a real better or a real odds maker, a real industry expert. Where they're, they're speaking like in reality and you might not like that's. You're not going to have a pick to go and bet that, but you might pick up on something that transforms your way of thinking and there's enough people who are interested in that and personally I think that's the most interesting. Writing nowadays, like who's who, who's consuming picks articles anymore, like what I guess. Like maybe if I'm if I'm an NFL, better, you're an NBA, better I might. I like to read like analysis pieces, analysis pieces it's not betting, nothing to do with betting Film studies. I've noticed this. I've noticed that that helps my betting process. It's not necessarily a pick. Not a lot of that, I think, is necessarily created for SEO purposes. I find that to be interesting. 

01:49:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, and I think Diggs said this on your pod as well I don't think I've ever listened to an NBA betting podcast, but I listened to endless NBA content of smart people talking about the NBA. 

01:49:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Exactly. This is a really long tweet that we're going to go to next, and I'm just going to summarize it. 

01:50:03 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's like that meme of like I'm sorry for you, or congratulations, I'm not reading the whole thing. I did read the whole thing. It's like that meme of like I'm sorry for you, or congratulations. 

01:50:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not reading the whole thing. I did read the whole thing. It's from Fastest Payout. Now, I don't have great experiences with this guy. I don't know what his deal is. Honestly, I know nothing about him, other than that I found him really annoying replying to a lot of my threads on Twitter over time, being like you don't understand betting, you don't understand how the book works, whatever. But I did find this to be pretty thought-provoking and part of the reason why was the responses were very different on this tweet. So just to summarize, because this is really long, this tweet is arguing that professional sports gambling is not as glamorous as it seems. 

01:50:46
This guy, fastest payout, claims he's a long time successful bettor and that most people lack the intelligence or self-awareness to win. 

01:50:54
Gambling offers freedom and financial upside, but it comes with stress, societal stigma and a lack of long-term security. 

01:51:03
He believes that if someone is smart enough to succeed at betting, they should use their winnings to build a more stable life outside of gambling. Many gamble due to escapism, financial struggles or addiction, and most will ultimately lose money. So, at its crux, it's like if you're a good bettor, you should find a way to transcend into other industries or do other things and, um, a lot of people said well said to this and I think I think part of it is because there is a stress when it comes to like betting. There always will be, even when you know you have an edge. There's ups and downs, um, and things of that nature. But I gotta tell you I don't agree with this at all, because I think that there's this inherent built-in judgment or this, this belief that all successful sports bettors are intelligent and it's like, honestly, from what I said, I'm not here to diminish, I deal with a lot of people on a daily basis. There's some people who have, like, way, done way, way better in sports betting than they could ever do. 

01:52:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They wouldn't get a job. They couldn't hold a job. 

01:52:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Or like if you're asking them to take your money and like invest it into some, they would have no fucking clue what to do. Like sports betting is their life and for some people I think sports betting has created opportunities that they just could not get elsewhere. I don't know about what you see in the day to day. 

01:52:32 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So the first 50% of what you said I totally agree with. Like I would describe what I do as not glamorous at all, even like when I jumped from kind of like arbitrage and more like odds jammer type of betting to my own origination. Like the first year of doing that, when I was betting like my own money, I would get in the car from like seven o'clock to like nine 30, listen to music and listen to podcasts, just drive around Cause I couldn't be like around my phone and around a TV, cause I would sweat so hard Like that was that is fucking shit. Yeah, and that is like I totally agree. 

01:53:06
But I've heard this argument of like if you can win sports betting, you can be super successful doing something else. I think that's true of a lot of people who we know who bet, who are super successful, but I think it's mostly like entirely not true of one, it's kind of a signal of you don't realize how much money you can make sports betting. Yeah, I think so. And two, the skills are kind of entirely different, of like getting a job in corporate, in the corporate world, being able to move up that ladder, have nothing. That's not very transferable to sports gambling. And then, third, I think that a lot of sports bettors or I think the reason you can be really successful as a sports bettor is because there is this taboo around it and a lot of really smart people don't want to try sports betting because they think it's a losing. What endeavor. And they think that most and they think that, um, if they did it, people would kind of look down upon them. So that's why people don't try. 

01:54:02 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So second half I really don't like I have no doubt a guy like rufus could go into a corporate setting and meet his quotas and have his bosses happy. But I also have no doubt a guy like rufus could go into the corporate setting and, as you said, like kiss the babies, climb the ladder, know how to fucking interact with people. To get the fucking corner office with the window yeah. To get what he's gotten from fucking gambling yes, yeah. So it's all like it's all sort of choose your own adventure. I do admit, though, like I've thought about rob in the past and speaking to him be like rob's, so fucking smart, like we work in a tower here downtown, like you'll be working on any of these floors making, working for these companies, working for a fucking investment banking firm. Like my friends who seem like they're still in a suit and tie on fucking weekends yeah, uh, have to do but I so like I personally. 

01:54:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So where I kind of disagree with with fastest payout here as well is that to me the sports betting lifestyle isn't isn't glamorous per se, but it kind of is for me because I get to, like, make my own hours. Yeah, I get to do whatever I want. Like to me. The idea of using that as like a stepping stone into something else, that is quote unquote more glamorous to some people is not to me, not at all. And there's bureaucracy, there's politics. When you go into other things Even if you invest into other companies. 

01:55:27
Guess what you could be on the board get outvoted by other. There's so many other problems. 

01:55:33 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yo man, who's this guy? Do you know him in real life? Never met him, Never met him. Do you know anything about him? What? 

01:55:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
he looks like he claims to be a 20-plus year professional. 

01:55:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So let me ask a question. Straight question, straight white male, I I believe. So good luck, yeah, good luck, to all my straight white male friends fucking getting the good fucking job and moving up the fucking ladder I uh good luck good luck. 

01:55:58 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
What does his wife look like? 

01:55:59 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
any industry and listen, I did not say that before for bc to send me a video of him doing his wife doggy on the weekend. 

01:56:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I hope that doesn't happen, although I kind of do it. I hope it does Like what? 

01:56:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I did. I didn't put it out there. So his wife's show that Feinberg guy we fuck in other positions. 

01:56:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So oh my God, I know what you're saying. So, like to Jeff's point, I mean good luck Rob, good luck getting like. I think I've told this before, I don't know if I have. 

01:56:25 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Oh, you got passed up by the sports media job for someone who, um, I don't. 

01:56:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't. I mean like, let's say I'm I'm very overqualified for the, the the position that I was passed up on and they let you know it. I was sought out by people within the company and then, when I went to have a first interview, they said oh, literally can't do it two minutes and said sorry we gotta meet a quota. Got a level with you. We cannot hire another middle-aged white man right now. They said it straight up to me, I'm not gonna say the company. 

01:56:56 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You could probably put two and two together I can't, but I feel like you've told me this before, so I can. 

01:57:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But yeah, yeah, but anyways. 

01:57:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But just getting back to your point of like the, the bankers, it's like living a fucking horrible life and like the money is not necessarily better, but you're also living the same stress on that side. Yeah, I don't know At all. 

01:57:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Until you flip like, yeah, fine, if you can go into law and investment bank and like kind of get to the top of the top, then yeah, the money's kind of insane. 

01:57:24 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Hey, sorry, but once you've made partner, yeah, but up then, yeah, the money's good. But once you've made partner, yeah, but like how many? It's a journey to partner exactly, and not everyone has the social skills. Yeah, to become that sort of person in the company. And the greatest tweet last week I know we're going so long, it went viral rob, I don't know if you saw it, I don't even know who the person is. They said like the worst thing ever happened. I accidentally became important at work and it's like shit. Now they want to know. Like no, they need me, they look for me, they want my opinion on things. It's like the worst thing that ever happened I, I. 

01:57:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will say I encourage people to read the whole tweet. For me, there's a lot of things that are happening here. The main issue for me is the line that says uh I, I, where was it? This is something to do for fun. It's extremely serious and you have to be intelligent to win at it, and I don't agree with that. I think you just have to understand certain. You do not have to be intelligent. You're looking directly at me when you say this not that I meant to, necessarily, but you don't. You. 

01:58:24
You have consciously sometimes you just have to find a niche yeah sometimes you just have to be someone who's good at getting accounts, yeah, someone who you like. There's certain like and again, not to offend I just speak what comes to my mind. All right, we kind of had a falling out recently and you guys talked about him on the show last week the rolex flex t-bone. I've known t-bone he used to be a call. 

01:58:44
He used to call into my radio show okay, back in like 2011 with jeff and uh, obviously, he, he, we had a fall, we had a falling out, but like t-bone's not the most intelligent guy, like every, but he's carved out a niche for himself within the space where he can successfully do that. Good luck getting t-bone off. Like what's he gonna do? Corporate? 

01:59:05 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
america yeah corporate. 

01:59:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not gonna be for him, it's not gonna happen. 

01:59:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Just depends on what you're good at and and like yes, what skills you have? 

01:59:11 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
yeah sure 100, 100 and if you're good enough, if you're good enough to uh, I guess, succeed in that, like if you're good enough to win at gambling yeah, like how you guys are. I know more about rob than I do you, but I believe everything rob says. You know, like you, you'll never work a day in that fucking office again yeah or you'll never want to want to sure this. 

01:59:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is me like diversifying like the hammer and yeah you're doing other things. 

01:59:44 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, and listen. Someone did so good at gambling, they bought themselves a fucking soccer team. There you go, happens Right. So what are we doing? 

01:59:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Exactly, exactly. We'll end it off here with a lighter-hearted discussion, because this one went pretty viral. Every now and then I like to bring in a more generic sports discussion. I think a lot of this conversation will stem around betting, though, as well. Herman conversation will stem around betting, though, as well. Um, herman l scott at herman j rob tweeted best days of sports ranked and he ranked the best days of sports number one week one nfl two round of 64 march badness, uh. And the list goes down. Super bowl sunday championship opening day. Mlb nba playoffs round one nfl thanksgiving those sat those Saturday NFL games late in the season. Number eight that's a weird one. Nba Christmas and rivalry week I got a bone to pick with this. 

02:00:33 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Okay, no NHL, which is fine, I respect that? 

02:00:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
What single NHL day would you pick Four Nations that? 

02:00:38 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
was literally some of the best. 

02:00:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Four Nations Wait, wait, wait. 

02:00:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That's like people yelling at. 

02:00:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Trump. 

02:00:48 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
They're like, the guy's been in office for two weeks. This is an insane thing. That was one of the-. Okay, sure, so on the redo. Okay, that's your phone. 

02:00:54 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That take is up there with you picking the Chiefs for the-. Were you watching Sweden-US? 

02:00:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Just a spectacularly bad day. That was the Four. 

02:01:01 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Nations final. That was an unbelievable Would it have? 

02:01:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
been unbelievable if it was the united states versus finland in the final. 

02:01:08 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I understand, yes, I would have. You are being ridiculous fine, fine, canada, us. 

02:01:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You want me to say context is king, that's hockey. You're not being fair to the context. Whatever that makes it better. 

02:01:18 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I have more. What about, uh, fight week for ufc. And when I say fight week, it's the the fight saturday night on fight week. They purposely stack the shit out of that card to make it the best UFC card. 

02:01:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm pretty biased because I don't like the UFC. Yeah, I don't care. There's no UFC. You need to take a look. There's no NHL Opening day. Mlb. 

02:01:35 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I'm actually telling you Opening day, mlb, hold on, stop, give me a break. 

02:01:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I agree. Opening day MLB. 

02:01:48 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Who cares about. Opening signifies maybe summer, but your thing is the NH fucking L and UFC, and you don't even mention the Masters. That's your lane. 

02:01:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, but Masters actually belongs, not the NHL. Also, I don't want to be too hard on Herman. One and two, clear one and two. Everything else is you're truly choosing your own adventure. The Super Bowl isn't even a sports day. It's not. It's like a even a sports day. It's not. It's like a gimmick marketing day. 

02:02:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's a cherry on top of what week one, is nba christmas day really even a top 10 event? What is? I love nba christmas? 

02:02:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
well, of course you do but I actually think that super bowl sunday is in a perfect spot, even though, I agree with you, it's not necessarily a sports day, but you have to have it oh sure, that's affiliated, not one, I think three is I think one two, three are great, and then the rest yeah, you can do whatever you want. 

02:02:33 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Masters would probably be like fourth or fifth, because it's like spring, it's that is like to opening day, mlb. It represents something maybe different than like the actual cincinnati reds playing what about the fuck? 

02:02:43 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
isn't four nations on here? 

02:02:46 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Please 10 million viewers, guys, People love that shit. 

02:02:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're missing the point. People love that shit. This is the point that's gone way over. When did he? 

02:02:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
even tweet this. 

02:02:56 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I don't know Well, four Nations might not have existed. That's okay. When he tweeted that, it's now going to be on this list. 

02:03:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Sure NHL All-Star. 

02:03:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Weekend can make the list. You know, what used to be a real banger of a day was New Year's Day. Yeah, bulls, yeah, bulls the Rose the Granddaddy. 

02:03:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
and then you'd have something, even after it, Like you'd have the game in the sugar in Atlanta. All fucking hungover just firing live heads. 

02:03:19 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I'm shocked no-transcript. 

02:03:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But it takes by J. It needs to become bad. Takes by J If opening day MLB is there. 

02:03:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
How is that? 

02:03:40 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
any different than week zero If I was watching this podcast and didn't know. 

02:03:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I would think we fed you lines to be so egregious. Or I would think you've never watched sports before in your life. 

02:03:53 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yes, I would say Week zero. If we're talking Listen. If we're talking about opening day you said it at least is like the start of the summer. Well, that to me, is the start of the football season. That is the start. 

02:04:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Listen after one, two. It's choose your own adventure. I'm not going to die on anyone's head. It's even week two in here. 

02:04:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I personally love NFL Thanksgiving because we're in Canada and we celebrate Thanksgiving on another day, so this is just like another day off for me to watch football all day midweek, and I'm a Cowboys fan so I watch my team play every year Usually lose, but that's way higher To me. I don't know if you consider it like a sports day, but Kentucky Derby for me. I'm always fucking glued in on Derby Day. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is In my college days the first two days of. 

02:04:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
March Madness were fucking insane, like the house party that would be going on in collab with it. And these were the Gus Johnson days, like everything was just elevated, and usually St Paddy's Day would fucking fall in there. Like wake up on the floor in the middle of the day, only to do it again later in the night. 

02:05:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
First game at 12-10. I'm basically. 

02:05:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm jealous of people. It's so good To get it to go back and do that again. Yeah Well, I still do that. I don't want to sound like Fezzik for a moment, but fuck the Thursday-Friday March Madness for sure. 

02:05:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think one and two is there's a huge separation to everything else afterwards. 

02:05:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Do you know the meme I've said this to you the meme where it's the dude whispering to the woman, the pretty girl at the bar that's me at all the summer parties whispering to my friends' wives that if your husband isn't at week one, I hold you responsible. I let the women know it's actually more important than the Super Bowl. You give your husband grace on the Super Bowl. More grace should be given to week one. That is my message. If you give me 10 minutes with your wife, that's what happens, so you don't have to worry about anything else. I'm hoping. 

02:06:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
that's all that happens, that's all. Trust me. 

02:06:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't even have 10 minutes if you're talking about the other stuff. 

02:06:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, we do know that a lot of you tag us in a ton of stuff on Twitter. Hashtag circle back. If you want something incorporated into the show, you can use that hashtag. We review it every single week. It was a busy week, so we had the chopping block. There's a few things. What did I? 

02:06:31 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
miss. You got a great time. You're firing bats. It'll be chopping block next week, all right. 

02:06:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's great. I love when stuff comes up mid-show. A few things that you guys tagged us in that we couldn't get to for a full topic. But we had GRP tweeting that he blocked Taylor Mathis he's proud of himself for doing so. Then he muted her so that she can still see his tweets, but his tweets don't clutter his view. And then he apparently that was the most engagement he ever got on any tweet and he pointed that out as well Fastest time getting to 99 people to like his tweet. 

02:07:08 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
How does he? 

02:07:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
know that I don't think we could turn this into a whole segment he added in a notebook. 

02:07:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But this is I mean, I love george so much. I don't know if he realizes his reach. Maybe the super bowl week helped him sort of realize it. But I'm telling you the guy is a needle mover. You have to appreciate it properly, though no. 

02:07:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So here's where I disagree with you. I think George thinks his reach is way more than it actually is, but I think that the average person doesn't realize George's reach. Does that make sense? I think that's a good tip, George moves the needle. 

02:07:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Benson makes jokes about it, but I literally had multiple friends I said sign up for Survivor last year because of George. He pushes product In the same way, west Winston, weston in his car rolling and betting Watson, watson, watson. I didn't Winston Pushing product, george pushes product. Oh, there you go, watson, I didn't push pushing product, george pushes product. 

02:08:11 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I just I'm laughing at the thought of George. You can talk about the Super Bowl. 

02:08:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Him on radio row would be like an all time we gotta do that for the hammer next year. Send him. That could be really good. 

02:08:19 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It could be bad yeah, well, maybe we start like a shell company. 

02:08:23 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
We've been hammered all wet but Amanda Vance flexing on Spin Influencer or Elf, that she couldn't do the spaces because she was interviewing Terry Bradshaw as someone that's been did a past life in sports media and booked guests if going to the Super Bowl and you're like biggest fucking get of an interview, do you know how low Terry Bradshaw? I wouldn't even book Terry Bradshaw on fucking get of an interview. Do you know low Terry Bradshaw? I wouldn't even book Terry Bradshaw on fucking anything I was doing right now, if he walked by my booth, I might not even say hello. 

02:08:55
Terry, you're a pretty girl, you're at Super Bowl week, you're at media row and Terry Bradshaw is the flex you pull. It's true. Do you know how many people? 

02:09:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Whatever, that's all Crouch. All was on the uh prop stream and he was like oh yeah, I'm talking to justin jefferson next. 

02:09:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
yeah, everyone, like literally everyone is there it is like a cavalcade of people and the person that is like your point that you're better. 

02:09:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't even care. I I'm with you, but she's a stealer's fan. It'd be me like, uh yeah, jason garrett. 

02:09:26 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So that would be if I was like I'm not going on, okay, but that would work in context of I'm not joining you on your Steelers blog. Tonight I interviewed Terry Bradshaw this was like unrelated to that, and her name drop of celebrity. Was Terry Bradshaw just someone that used to be that like? 

02:09:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
that was so embarrassing. What else was a late cut here? Uh, jacob uh, we got oh, yes, um, this was tagged. I mean, there's not too much to talk about here. But jake from profit x um, he posted like a a pretty long tweet about how they had partnered with someone who turned out to be a scammer. He was an affiliate partner. He sold us snake oil, whatever, I don't know. A really quick take from me. I don't know about you guys, but I found this actually quite refreshing. Most people just ignore this stuff and they don't even deal with it, which is not my standards and what I live by. I think you addressed something head on. That's all I can really say about that Totally agree. 

02:10:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's what we ask for on this show. If you say hand up, my bad. I think we said something similar last week. Yeah, we'll give you credit for that Talked with Jake once before. 

02:10:37 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Nice guy Finally followed me. I guess maybe it's because he got hashtag circle backed, but the right thing to be doing I like it. 

02:10:44 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't. I'm not like being sponsored or I don't have any affiliation, but I agree with other people who suggest that this sort of thing is exchanges are the future. 

02:10:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, that's you agree with your boy Fez. You know he's gone, dark on me. I know he's gone. 

02:11:01 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He unfollowed me he's gone dark on me. Not that I expect, not that, like listen, I expect. But like I always get these occasional sweet nothings Ever since you two had your tit for tat, he doesn't want to whisper anything sweet into my ear anymore. 

02:11:14 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's fine, you're not 17,. That's why, sorry, sorry Wow. 

02:11:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Too soon Hashtag too soon. Circle back, chopping block, final, jason. I mean it's sad we couldn't talk about this on the show. Barstool believes that you know. Congratulations to Canada for winning the All-Star game. 

02:11:32 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
When have you ever seen Barstool tweet about hockey? 

02:11:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
by the way, that's a good tweet, Well chicklets. 

02:11:36 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
What are you talking about? 

02:11:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, no, not chicklets the few years ago, a few years ago, this was obviously gonna be their response. Well, that's what I'm saying like. So, uh, us four are all canadian. We do the show in canada. This to me was like the ultimate free roll event for americans. I'm not suggesting that there's not americans that care about hockey. There obviously are lots of americans that care about hockey, but it's not to the same extent as canadians. If canada lost that, that game, it's like a fucking national tragedy. 

02:12:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
America loses the game it didn't happen, it's just pivoted to like it's just the all-star game, meaningless combine. It's a combine this week. What do you got? 

02:12:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it's true, like nobody lost. 

02:12:19 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But we respect. I respect the gains they're making as a hockey nation. They're coming for us canada it's, I mean it's inevitable. 

02:12:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's inevitable. It's got to work on our goalies a bit. It's inevitable. At some point it's going to happen. One thing I do want to say. A lot of Americans like to flex the same thing. So Clay Travis tweeted this. Alex B Smith, who used part of Edgework in the past, tweeted this Canada still hasn't won a Stanley Cup since 1999. Get your Stanley Cup back, I got to tell you. 

02:12:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's the biggest misconception maybe in Canadian to American sport. 

02:12:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll tell you what happens when the Leafs go out of the playoffs. 

02:12:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
My team. I'm cheering against every other. 

02:12:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Canadian team, because I cannot bear the thought of them rubbing it in a stand. Maybe not Winnipeg? Winnipeg's like central and I don't give a shit about. 

02:13:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Edmonton, montreal. 

02:13:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Ottawa, vancouver. 

02:13:05 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Vancouver for sure. No chance. I'm cheering actively against them. 

02:13:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The biggest, like you know exactly. You know how little I'd respect someone if they started cheering for like what they assume that we would just cheer for someone else's rival in the cup. This isn't college football. It's not like Big Ten pride or SEC pride. There's zero chance. Any real hockey fan who loves a team is cheering against everyone else's team in Canada like objectively rooting against them. 

02:13:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Listen, there's some people out there where they will root for Canadian teams. 

02:13:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, but their favorite teams are essentially all the Canadian teams. Yes, exactly, they might like a Canadian team more than others, but they don't dislike any Canadian team, so they can then cheer for any Canadian team. 

02:13:55 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I know exactly who those type of people are and I can tell you everything about them. Yeah, they suck. I can tell you where they lie on the political scale. It's crazy. I was going to say I would much rather the 25 American teams win before the six other Canadian teams that aren't the Leafs win a. Stanley Cup, that's what I want. 

02:14:14 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The Stanley Cup sits 12 minutes down the road every single day of the year, except when it's being paraded around the ice. 

02:14:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, it really doesn't affect me in any way. Also, it's just completely ignorant to the fact that the majority of teams that win the Cup they have a lot of Canadian players. More often than not, they're overwhelmingly Canadian as well. Anyways, it's not the flex that Americans think it is. It really isn't the flex that you think it is. It's a massive sports day, though. 

02:14:40 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yep, but it is when they do beat Canada in a gold medal game. 

02:14:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It could happen at the Olympics next year. 

02:14:49 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They'll get a flex set and enjoy it. Yeah, I'm just going to be offline for a week and then I'll just resurface like nothing happened, because that's the way I'm going to do it. 

02:14:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Same way fucking. Joey Knish dealt with it, by the way. I haven't seen him in a while, yeah he's talking a lot of smack going into that game. 

02:15:02 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Notice how he's back from joey so good later. 

02:15:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, actually, speaking of which, he did lose a bet to moreto on that finals. Well, he does have to drive to toronto to do an episode of circle. He's well in studio. We will have joey condition. 

02:15:15 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's actually so not just circle back, we should pretend we're like this is like a real big operation, like when a celebrity goes to espn they have to do like the whole wash of things, yeah yeah, like he should part of like literally, he should have. 

02:15:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're going to have him filming promotional content. 

02:15:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Promotional content Voice overs for liking and subscribing on YouTube 100%, we're going to work him through the ringer on that day 100%. 

02:15:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Thank you to everyone who tuned in. As a reminder, please leave your comments down below. Smash that like button. Sub here on Circles Off Thursday on this channel we're interviewing elf. Be more talk about Twitter spaces. I think you'll enjoy it because I'm going to press him a little bit on some of those questions. And, of course, make sure you sign up to get Kirk's hammer. We'll put the link in the description down below. Check out our partners at underdog and edge boost. We'll catch you next week.