Rob Gets Personally Attacked By "Pro" NFL Bettor On Twitter? | Presented by Underdog

2025-01-14

 

 

In the ever-evolving landscape of sports betting, it's easy to get caught up in the chase for quick wins and closing line value (CLV). However, as the latest episode of "Navigating Sports Betting" illustrates, the real key to long-term success lies in account sustainability and a strategic approach that balances profitability with longevity. Hosted by the insightful team at The Hammer Betting Network, this episode takes listeners on a fascinating journey through the intricacies of the betting world, offering valuable insights and plenty of laughs along the way.

 

The conversation kicks off with a provocative tweet by Joel Gideon, which serves as a catalyst for a deeper discussion about the challenges and strategies involved in maintaining a viable betting account. Vedran Erichich, known as Pips, shares his expertise on the delicate balance between making profitable bets and ensuring account longevity, especially in the non-mature markets where early betting can lead to limitations imposed by platforms like Bet365. This segment offers a refreshing take on the often-overlooked aspect of sports betting: the importance of keeping your account active and unrestricted.

 

Shifting gears, the podcast delves into the debate surrounding Closing Line Value (CLV). With contributions from industry figures like Tweety Dimes and BetLab Analytics, the episode examines whether CLV is truly a reliable indicator of long-term success. Through engaging anecdotes and a blend of mathematical analysis and the "eyeball test," listeners are invited to explore the psychological and strategic elements that underpin successful sports wagering.

 

But the episode doesn't stop at the numbers. It also provides a window into the vibrant and sometimes perplexing world of betting social media. From the ethical dilemmas and personal dramas to the humorous Twitter antics of influencers like Taylor Mathis and Fezzik, this segment sheds light on the personalities that color the sports betting scene. The podcast offers an entertaining and incisive look at the dynamics of gambling Twitter, where bold claims and personal validation often intersect with sheer absurdity.

 

Throughout the episode, the hosts tackle a variety of topics, including the ethical implications of selling betting picks, the nuances of model-based versus eyeball-test approaches, and the ever-present need for personal validation in the competitive betting community. The discussion is enriched by personal experiences and reflections, adding depth to the exploration of these multifaceted issues.

 

In a particularly humorous segment, Fezzik's amusing Twitter rants about Starbucks serve as a Seinfeld-esque moment, highlighting the lighter side of sports betting discourse. The episode also touches on the intriguing potential of exchange models in sports betting, where bettors can engage in peer-to-peer competition and revel in the thrill of victory.

 

As the podcast draws to a close, it reflects on the future of sports betting, considering the role of influencer culture and the impact of personal life on public personas. Through a blend of insightful commentary and engaging storytelling, "Navigating Sports Betting" offers a comprehensive and entertaining look at the dynamics that drive this ever-evolving industry.

 

Whether you're a seasoned bettor or new to the game, this episode provides valuable insights and plenty of laughs, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the world of sports wagering.

 

 

About Circle Back

 

To support Circles Back: Sign up for new sportsbook accounts using our custom links and offers. Click HERE.

 

Bet at Pinnacle: Join the world’s sharpest sportsbook by creating your account HERE or through the banner below. Use promo code HAMMER to support the show!

 

 

Stay Updated: Subscribe for more Circle Back content on your favourite platforms:

 

Follow Us on Social Media:

 

Scale Your Winnings With Betstamp PRO

Betstamp Pro saves you time and resources by identifying edges across 100+ sportsbooks in real-time. Leverage the most efficient true line in the industry and discover why Betstamp Pro is essential for top-down bettors.

 

Limited number of spots available! Apply for your free 1-on-1 product demo by clicking the banner below.

Episode Transcript

00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. 

00:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions it's circle back, episode number 14, right here on the circles off youtube channel, part of the hammer betting network presented by underdog. This is the show where we review the week that was in gambling twitter, and boy was it another great week. Rob Pizzola here, kirk Evans, jeff Feinberg, jacob the giant Grimenia producing the show today, and we haven't had a CLV discussion in a long time closing line value discussion. We're going to start there this week with Pips. For those that don't know, pips is Vedran Erichich. He's in Croatia. He's part of the Hammer Betting Network. He does a daily show called Pick and Roll over on the Board YouTube channel every single day with producer Jacob. Pips is a great guy. He's been part of the Hammer since the beginning. 

01:37
Joel Gideon tweets a Bet365 screenshot of him betting an over on a Donovan Mitchell prop this was a very early bet. It was into like a non-mature market it was either an overnight or really early in the day and says they cannot be fucking serious. And he's identified a good bet here. He bets Donovan Mitchell over 20.5 points. Probably should have been lined at around 22.5. So he's got some decent ev on this bet. Pips quote tweets it and says I strongly advise people to not do this, you're gonna lose a good bet 365 account for literally ten dollars. Ten dollars is roughly the ev that was on this play. He then goes on to explain that the bet 365 account could be way worth way more than what he's using it for right now, and he also talks about closing line value and how books will tend to limit you based off of closing line value. So let's start with that original conversation here with pips, point or yeah, not a good point. 

02:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think it's a decent point. I think one thing that's important to remember is if you can win at Bet365 on really early props, it doesn't necessarily mean you can win midday betting props. I don't know who this guy is and what type of bettor he is, joel. 

03:01
Gideon, I don't know how good of a bettor he is, but this might be his edge and I don't agree that books. Look at CLV the same. If you bet 50 or 150, especially with an overnight prop he's probably like, even if it's a totally fresh 365, if he bets over 500 bucks, let's say it's probably going to trader. That's a way bigger chance that your accounts can get limited if you send it to Trader. But I do agree you can absolutely make more money on a 365 than $50 picking this off. But it really all depends on how good of a bettor you are and if you can win later in the day. 

03:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
How do you view something like this when you see it this? 

03:40 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
is just so frustrating because I'll look at it from the outside, like what the F else is Joel supposed to do? Maybe he should have been allowed to bet more, I'm not sure. Maybe this is the limit, because you mentioned how early when this came out, I didn't even know where this like I needed you to explain to me. I understand having the two points is good, but I, you know, just seeing Donovan Mitchell over 20, I don't watch enough basketball to know that's a bad number or whatever. 

04:06
Yeah, sure, and I like there's so many times I've lost like accounts, making good bets being just because I'm an aware consumer with like friends and I have friends who are like smart bettors, right, and I like can like just basis on like line shopping and knowing that like not only does mcdonald's sell hamburgers, burger King and Wendy's and like the local great old school diner also sell hamburgers, I'm just going to shop it like who's running the best promotion today, right, I don't understand. So it's just so freaking frustrating because I have been limited for this same reason, doing exactly what you would say is bad to do, because I've like burnt accounts, right, and then I'm in their customer service yelling at them telling them you are the dumbest people on earth. 

04:51
Call my bookie call the guys at the offshore like they will tell you like you must have the dumbest operation on planet earth if you like, think you like, if you want to end our they want. 

05:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If they're not going to take jeff feinberg's bets, like, whose bets are they going to take? Basically? 

05:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
like what. So it's like I get limiting like sharp people, but I I feel like the algos. They honestly don't have a clue. 

05:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, that's pips, they don't have a clue this to me is a very sensible, sensible comment from Pips. Now listen, it's really challenging in the sports betting space to apply it to everyone, right? For all you know, joel, like you said, kirk is a losing sports bettor and he's just mixed in a good plus EV bet. It's not going to harm him at all, probably in the grand scheme. 

05:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
How many times do you have a tough night and you don't even want to be looking at the book? You're like shit, yeah, I'm getting off the mat tomorrow. Let's see what's out there sure this, like I have no idea, like I'm just saying I don't know if he's right, maybe just the night before it didn't go well and he's like just foaming at the mouth to get in there for tomorrow but, but, but. 

05:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But what I would say, that what I would say is that there could be a detriment to doing that, whether, like I I know exactly what you're saying, jeff like maybe there's there's actually not a thought into you know, trying to get good closing line value here. 

06:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's just a guy who's on his computer, he's rattled, he's tilted, he's making a bet, it's fine or he won the night before and he's seeing the board clear and he's like I'm seeing it, like full, clear eyes, full hearts, like I'm going to check out the board right now after a hot night. 

06:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
So this is a guy who has 23,000 followers, who gives out free picks on his Twitter account. 

06:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Got it also. Him saying they cannot be fucking serious clearly implies to me that he knows that this was a bad line. 

06:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah also yeah then why is he betting more? So he's a good better. He's a good better. Well, I'm sorry. 

06:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Could be under capitalized. That could be. That could be his bet size within his bankroll he understands sports betting and bets often and knows about limits. 

06:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
hopefully, if you're going to tweet like you can't be fucking serious about a line. 

06:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And he bet $100 on it. Maybe that's a big bet for him, though. 

06:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And maybe that's just the limit they'd give him on this early number. 

06:57 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm in doubt. It wouldn't be $100. It'd be like $87.40. 

07:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It would be more like two dollars or nine dollars out of 365, but also, yeah, exactly, it wouldn't be a clean 100. 

07:10
Um, I will say with this, though, there is a the point that pips is trying to make, which I agree with and this mostly is going to apply to winning bettors is that I've seen this happen a million times, and I'm I I make this same mistake even nowadays, even though I preach this stuff. Sometimes you see a line where you're like, ah, this is a bad line, can I get away with betting this? And you convince yourself that, like you know what, I'm just going to hit this one and you might end up losing the account because you do it at a really bad time. You get really good closing line value a trader notices. So, generally speaking, when you are going to play that early and you are going to build up good closing line value, you put yourself at a higher risk of losing the account, and if the account is valuable to you and you want to bet into it over a long period of time, you probably shouldn't be doing that stuff. 

07:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Obviously they've got their numbers that show we are just better off kicking off more sophisticated squares than we should. Right, like people that like they're not sharp but they line shop Right. Right, they're like they're not the sharpest. Better like me, but when I make a bet I'm getting the best fucking number. Well, the thing is. 

08:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And. 

08:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm good. 

08:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But sportsbooks don't like that behavior either. I agree, if you're constantly betting best price in market at their book, they're going to catch on at some point. And I'm gone and you're done. 

08:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
What am I supposed to wait for, guy? 

08:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
who wanted, who was going to shovel money to whatever sports book they're like? 

08:36 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
cause I'm still a guy Like I love a good standalone TV game. Yeah, bet on my favorite teams, like I have, even though there's square tendencies. I know they are, I know when I'm doing them. Yeah, um, like I'm still want to do all those things but still I'm still like capable of making savvy fucking bets because I'm I don't know perpetually online or have some smart friends, I don't know. 

09:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you got access to the forward progress group chat. You're gonna get in good on some hitman props, so that's what I mean. 

09:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So then I get the prop and then whichever book I'm obviously not the first person on it, but I have enough sports books that one of them is moving slow on it. Yeah, and there I. I act on it. 

09:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Then I'm I'm limited, I didn't even bet hard enough so outside of that original conversation, uh duncan steps in here and he doesn't understand what CLV is. He asked Pips to explain CLV. Clv is closing line value. Basically, it's a measure of whether you're getting out ahead of the market or not. Typically in sports betting, good closing line value would be an indicator of long-term success, and has been for a long time. Betlab Analytics steps in here and says there's no scientific proof. I've done studies on BetLabs. There's nothing profound about CLV correlating to long-term wins, because if so, you can't cherry pick. If there's 25 on a board, you'll have to play all 25 and no book is red flagging $10 bets. I live in sports books. I don't even know what thisging $10 bets I live in sports books. 

10:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't even know what this is supposed to be. 

10:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I didn't understand the last part at all 25 on the board. You'll play all 25? I? 

10:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
don't know what that means. We're all in the same boat here, very confused. But he's saying CLV doesn't matter. Exactly, this is going to turn into a long back and forth here between pips and bet lab analytics. That says clv doesn't matter and he keeps talking about bet labs. He says clv is basically a myth. Look at yanni the greek. It's all. He preaches all decade on wager talk and he doesn't win shit with a poop emoji. There's a lot going on here. So for context, bet lab analytics is tweety dimes from back in the day. There used to be a very famous twitter account called tweety dimes, who was known for uh, I don't really know a very entertaining account. He watched every pitch of every inning of every mlb season. Once or so, he claimed we were doing the math on it, it was nuts um. 

11:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That just can't be true, that's awesome to claim that always epic moment. 

11:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
one day we're gonna do a circles off episode with, uh, some people who were OGs on gambling twitter and we will tell the best stories that ever existed over time. But Tweety Dimes ended up partnering with some guy who convinced them that numerology was real and they started handicapping games together based off of numerology, like the day of the week is the 32nd day of the year and the moon is the whatever. It didn't go well. They had a falling out. The guy stole his account, his original tweety dimes account so the tweety dimes account now is not the original tweety dimes. 

11:48
He had to create bet lab analytics. So for people who don't know and they remember tweety dimes, it's bet lab analytics right now, but I don't know how many time more times I could really do the clv argument. Like it's pretty apparent now, if you bet and you get good closing line value, especially at recreational books, you get limited. It just it's, it's going to happen it. If it hasn't happened to you, you're not getting good clv. But the fact that books are limiting based off of this stuff should already go to show that they're scared of people that could get out ahead of the market and it should kind of be case closed at that point. 

12:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You would think it's case closed Okay. And you would think it doesn't. Really. You don't need to be that like it's not a complicated scenario to figure out why it's important, how it makes sense that it's important. I don't even understand the case against it. Nothing could be more important. 

12:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean technically, technically wins and losses, Sure, but you don't know that before the game you can get limited. 

12:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Right, I'm talking about before the game nothing Good CLV. 

12:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, for sure. 

12:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Had that happen? Oh, I've had it happen before. 

12:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's the most annoying thing, let me get the chance to win my money back. 

13:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's nothing more memorable Like the most memorable losses are the clv losses, of course, the one where you got such a great number. You pat yourself on the back. You feel like a million bucks that kick off, because you're like I did, my job market moved in my favor. It loses and you're like, ah, fucking. 

13:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And the psychology, like you'll remember. For every clv loss you'll remember more than like four CLV wins. 

13:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

13:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But, Matt, like, can you imagine getting CLV? Like who wouldn't want CLV on every bet? 

13:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
they make. Yeah, I mean, it's just it's understanding market dynamics is all right. Like the way that the market works is that as the week extends for an NFL game, but for NBA, as the day goes on, limits start to increase as books start collecting more data on games and the people that are betting later and later into market for large amounts of money are usually the ones that win the most and have that bankroll to do so. 

13:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like everything you do in light. Like from a gambling perspective, you're getting like the best number in market. Like from a gambling perspective, you're getting like the best number in market. Like I don't even understand how there's enough on the other side to argue against it. 

14:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, I think it makes sense that BetLab Analytics is a big numerology guy and we know Pips, he's a smart dude. Yeah, winning better. Like it makes sense which side you want to be on in that debate. 

14:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like do you know the sort of shame you feel when it goes? 

14:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
the other way, it's not an actual shame. 

14:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's such a gross feeling. You refresh that screen, that screen refreshes or the number pops and it like moved against you. Yeah, it's like such uh, I don't know, it's like the most. It's like a very just like. Even though it's private, it's not like anyone else knows. I made this bet. Yeah, it's between, like me and the. You know the site. It's not like I've shared this even, but it's just such a demoralizing feeling. 

14:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The most shame I feel as a better is when I'm doing a live watch along of forward progress and we bring up a live line and I'm like, ah yeah, I think this is a good bet. And then I watch in real time as the market moves against me on that bet and I just got to sit there and just own it. It is very demoralizing. I do have the market moving like you feel good about a play and then someone basically like shit, takes a dump on your chest. Basically is what happens and the market moves in the there's. 

15:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's a terrible feeling for a better there's some like hyper recreational bets, like first touchdown on an offshore, that I find like just move against me instantly. But I also just feel like it's not really me, like I'm betting this thing like earlier in the day. You think they got a system in place. 

15:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jeff, as soon as you click it, they, they move the numbers. I just think this guy's such a mush. 

15:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No instantly is a stretch. I just mean like I'm just betting into that market too early in the day and that's the sort of thing that like sort of fluctuates kind of hard and they're just looking for more action later. But even when I go back, like I know they're going to reset these things later, it's still even to lose like two points. You feel like something goes from 16 to 18 to 1. You feel like such a goober. 

16:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The thing that I find the most confusing about that whole back and forth and I've read it many times. First of all, I will say Pips is such a nice guy. Okay, he's so level-headed and down to. He's one of the most open-minded people I've ever met or talked to. 

16:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
For him to get triggered hard by someone you got to know that he is deep down Too open-minded, because there's a certain level of a conversation here where it's be like arguing with someone like the sun or the moon. 

16:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I was thinking the same thing. 

16:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's like you're almost too open-minded to like be willing to have the respect, to engage in something like so what I believe is a universal yeah, like pip should have a level of like. 

16:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm not gonna engage with someone who knows this level of this. 

16:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Uh, this last one set him off, this one was way yeah shit's more meaningless than you think. 

17:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I get that include the. 

17:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I didn't include the rest of it. Yeah, that was it. 

17:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's really yeah of course People are like buddies go to Vegas Like on a guy, like they just hammer some bets, they have a great night. They're not looking at a market. 

17:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They don't give a shit what the opener was why it moved. Like, of course you can win ignoring it, but I wouldn't bank on it. Well, listen, if I, if I, if I was getting into, like betlab analytics used to be tweety dimes, right, the joke on twitter was tweety dimes is going to lose his bankroll over and over and over and over, like that. That was the thing, right, and listen, I'm just stating it as it is. But he was pretty publicly tracked by people back in the day and he was a terrible better. So for me, I would have probably saw this comment and I would have said I'm not even gonna bother arguing because it's a moot point. There's no point. He sells picks, he's bad at doing so. 

17:55
But what really confused me about the whole thing? And I haven't used the bet labs product or even heard about it in a long time so so BetLabs originally came up as part of Sports Insights, daniel Fabrizio Dan Fabrizio, who I love, that guy he was originally as part of that founding team. I think he's part of the unabated team right now. But BetLabs is just like a trend analysis tool. It's basically allowing someone to come through historical data and create systems, right. So it's like if the spread is between three and a half and six and a half and a team is playing at home on extra rest, and it'll show you historically how teams have done in that type of position. It's a very dangerous tool put in the wrong hands because people just assume that it's trends with a z. 

18:49
Exactly, it's the trends, exactly I don't know how you would use bet lab and bet labs to determine that closing line value is a myth like I'm very confused about that. I don't. 

19:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't really know where we're going I just want to confirm that is just like something he needs to say to defend himself. Bet labs doesn't have like a documented piece on it being a myth right I highly doubt it. 

19:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, there's lots of ways you could do this right, you. You can run error metrics against the opening line and the closing line. Really simple log loss. Whatever you want to do, mae rmsc, whatever metric you want. Sorry, I'm getting too into the weeds now, but it's pretty clear that the close across all the major sports is still more accurate than the opener. Now there's definitely an argument to say that the gap has decreased over the last year in specific sports, nfl being one. I don't know about nba, maybe you would know better than I, but it's not something I track actually but it's still a universal sign. Uh, someone knows what they're doing. And also, I think one of the reasons and now we're really getting into the weeds here that closing line value may have, um, may not be as uh bent now I want to say beneficial, may not be overrated, used to is because I actually think that there's people out there now, the really good bettors, who are trying to disguise um maybe and like mess 

20:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
around with a lot of money a little bit, because really you're a lot of money. 

20:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Ultimately, your goal is a better, not your goal is a better. The way you can succeed the most is to win with no closing line value. 

20:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Oh, I can see how that can work, and I can only fathom the level of scale for which you have to be betting the other side. 

20:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's like we want to bet a position that we think is valuable, but we don't want it to close well, but eating the juice on the like, it's such a level of scale I can't even fathom. 

20:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And to be that good, I'd be so envious of it. I to to oh, that's so cool, I'll say, I'll say this sometimes I feel like we're being worked by some monster systems, but, um, to actually be able to do that yeah, I would say that I'm pretty well networked in the betting space. 

21:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I know a lot of bettors, a lot of very successful bett. Not only have I never met someone who claimed to me that they win with no CLV. That, I think, is trustworthy at all. I've never met anyone who says they know someone who wins in a major market with no CLV. So I think it exists, but I think it's extremely rare. 

21:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's also the thing where it's like I don't care if you're losing better. Everyone can be a losing better, like on a run. Show me your history. Yeah, and it's just based off the CLV. I will like be able to you know, detective, whether you're like, actually good at this or bad at this. 

21:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It would be one of my first like, let's say, I was a trader at a sports book and I was reviewing someone's accounts. All right, I do this all the time with people don't know this. But like I will tail some people on bet stamp. I've said this publicly before that they are actually tracking their records properly. You could see that they're tracking against sharp books and not just recreational. But like, I have a pretty good sense in my head of being able to determine who is a winner and a loser. It would be very hard for me to stumble on an account, even with a large sample that was tracking and winning, that had no closing line value, and say, yeah, I'm gonna go tail this person's picks. I would never do that. 

22:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I simply wouldn't agreed so like to be like good buddies with a sportsbook director? Yep, and then he's just like, no, I guess could then. And then he's like, oh, this person is betting on this. Would you be fearful that the bet you're getting is like the layoff and not the real bet? No, I don't mean the director. The sportsbook director's happy to take a big bet at the number he believes is a good number. Yeah, I'm saying like you could just be like, oh, that person, we respect him. He lets his group chat know. Oh, buddy, just came in on this. I don't even know what you're asking me. Neither sportsbook director, yeah, can see who's are you referencing anyone in particular? 

23:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
okay, anyone, I don't give a shit. They can see all the bets in real time, all the bets yes. 

23:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So they know like smart, like they see it all. Yes. 

23:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And they can. They determine where to move the line based off of the bets that are coming in? 

23:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Are they all like huge bettors? Is that a really dumb question? 

23:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Anyone who's moving a line. 

23:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No sportsbook directives. Yeah, because it's like they have insider information. I don't think they can. 

23:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think they can. I think it would probably be some sort of I actually don't know the answer to that, but I would assume Like are they? 

23:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
allowed to bet, even at different books. 

23:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Probably not would be my guess. I don't know the answer to that. 

23:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, we'll find out at some point. Might be worth it for a future discussion. All right, farley bets Chris Farley. So he's had a few tweets that have been tagged Hashtag circle back Reminder. You can use hashtag circle back if you want us to talk about something on the show that I want to get into this week For some context. 

23:56
Chris Farley was part of our team at the Hammer here in the early going. He had a show called Total, total Redemption. You used to produce that, right, I did. That was in the early going and then, yeah, we just parted ways. After a little bit of time, a lot of the stuff we weren't doing wasn't working. It's not a criticism of Farley at all, but anyways, this tweet came out Weekly reminder that respected gambling accounts that yell at you about models and probabilities don't know what they're talking about. I've won 116 units and two circa contests 264k since becoming a pro the last four nfl seasons and I only use team rankings and my own notes team rankings being a website that publishes, I call it like pretty basic data for all the major sports. He's talking about his two Circa contests, which were a quarterly. One was a quarterly win, I believe. I think the other one was he cashed. 

24:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He finished like fifth or sixth Top five, something along those lines Seventh, eighth, so it's two-time cash in Cir I think two years ago, um, so we have. 

25:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We have that tweet. Then we have the one where this is coming off of the houston la chargers game. Sorry, jeff, to bring this up, I know it's hashtag too soon for you. He says there were zero signs that houston would show up like this tonight. Kudos to all texans bettors, but you didn't take a position on them based on verifiable evidence, to which point a lot of people responded um harshly. He then says please stop bitching about this tweet or please continue. I apologize, wouldn't want to offend, but don't expect me to give a shit. Uh, and he goes on basically saying that there was no like essentially valid reasons to take the texans um, and then closes off with our third and final here, which is um. I deleted the twitter app from my phone so I can't constantly check it and 12 hours in, it's been awesome. Highly recommend. More to say on this later, because the reality is, I truly don't give a shit what you or anyone thinks about my betting takes very freeing move typically, people who delete twitter and don't care are also tweeting at that time. 

26:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's a very normal thing to do. Um, like I don't know. He has me blocked on twitter. 

26:26
I actually don't remember why um, maybe because you're a data guy and you dismiss the eye test well the idea of saying okay, model, I can see someone criticizing like model bet, model based betting, I. I could see how someone like I would say the best bettors are typically betting model-based. Yeah, but I could see how some model-based bettors are close-minded to non-model-based bettors but saying probabilities like if you are betting and not thinking in probabilities, there is just no way to win. That is all betting is is having something that is more probabilistic than the books are pricing it. Saying probabilities people who talk about probabilities don't know what they're talking about just makes you come off as someone who knows nothing about betting. 

27:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
All right, so being friends with Rob for I don't know, probably close to like maybe more than 15 years. It took a while but like, somewhere along the way, I discovered I like it clicked that like. No, it actually like betting on sports is a math yes, problem, it's a math problem. Yep, not like I love ball, I love watching ball, I love cheering for my opinions, or maybe even like a pre-season take to be validated somewhere along the way. Farley, like what he's done, I want to so badly put on a pedestal and let me explain to you just why. Because winning in these contests is hard. It is so hard. 

28:01
And then to be able to do it with like team rankings and my own notes and I take my own notes. And then the tweet about the texans chargers game yeah, it's like he is just like by his own notes he means like my ball knowledge, my eyeballs. I sit on sunday, I watch all the fucking games, I see every play. There's nothing that you're like. I don't care what your modeling has to say and I like almost cause that is a very like Island take, I would assume from a lot of people who even participate in those contests. Yeah, I won't be like wow man, congratulations. You fucking sit there. You don't like. You ignore these models and projections and you're literally just having these two banks on like you know ball Yep. On you know ball Yep. But at the same time it's like I want to like, I want to, but he can be I don't know, throughout the year. There's just a lot of like woe is me. Tweet Insufferable at times, yeah, which makes it hard for me to want to like put him up on a pedestal. 

29:08
As for this Texans Chargers thing, I don't know. I can just read a message I wrote to Rob on Saturday morning. I believe there's a clear demarcation point between the people who are picking the Chargers and the people who are picking the Titans. I know you watch everything this week. You will tell me there's freaks and geeks on both sides. I don't believe it. You respond what do you mean? I say the people who seem to have systems and principles and a consistent way of going about things are all on the Texans. The eyeball bros are all on the Chargers. 

29:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's the exact. I'm pulling it from my phone. I remember you sending that to me and I know you whatever. 

29:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't need to debate. I know there's sharps on squares on both sides, but I didn't like I don't know what Anyone with like a process seemed to me like completely. He said they had no reason to bet them. They're processed. There was a process. The Chargers didn't have a wick of expectation. All year they played 17 games without an expectation. Then all of a sudden we're three-point fucking road favorites in a playoff game. And sure they dropped the ball. They fucked up, but situationally they were walking into a fucking hornet's nest. 

30:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Everything in sports betting comes down to a price. At the end of the day comes down to a price and in. In my opinion, whether you're doing this via, like, a math-based model or even eyeball testing, whatever the eyeball test, you have to be able to make an accurate number on the event that you're betting in order to win in the long run. And some people might be able to do that in their head without an algorithm. They might be able to create their own power ranking systems, power ratings and beat the market and do it that way, and that's fine. I remain open-minded in terms of ways to win at sports betting, but fundamentally, I think it comes down to being able to create a number on a game. I think it comes down to being able to create a number on a game and in this particular instance, I hate the. The playoff games are not hard to price. 

31:11
Okay, there's a lot of data and even though the Texans weren't good this year, there's still a way to price that game in in to determine who should have been favored and and by what right. It's not because, like there's good, there's going to be scenarios. I to determine who should have been favored and by what right. It's not because, like, there's going to be scenarios I'll give you an example Giants and Ravens really bad scenario because Giants didn't cover the game but like, if I'm going to bet the Giants in that game, I'm not betting it based off of, like, oh, the Giants are, they're going to run the ball down the Ravens' thro, this and that it's. The number is too big and I think it's too big, so I want to bet the Giants they didn't cover the spread in that game but that it comes down to being able to quantify what the numbers should be in that game. 

31:53 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
The ridiculousness of this tweet is that he doesn't reference the price at all, like you're saying. So like what happens if someone got in Texans plus seven? Yeah, farley, have said that that was a bad bet, right? What about plus 10? Like, exactly, it doesn't matter about who was playing well who, that's all what you need to put into the price to get a line. So like having no reference of like what was a good price, what was a bad price, but if you bet on houston, it was bad but it's so fundamentally stupid it's like. 

32:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's like don't bet the underdog in the game because there's nothing telling you you should bet the underdog and none of the people, I believe, who are excited that they hit a Houston bet had anything to do with the future. Most of these people, like in your sort of circles, rob, you have the single bet on the game. The future is just this like omnipresent thing. It's unrelated. Oh, it's unrelated. Now someone like me, like, for you know, I've got big eagle, super bowl future. Why do I want to bet them on the weekend? Because, like I got my future, I'm gonna ride or die with my future. 

32:57
That's not how, like no, you like people who aren't me, or like smarter betters, like deal with their futures once we are at a certain point, it doesn't matter. It's there, you have it, it's in your portfolio, but it's irrelevant to you predicting a game or celebrating a one-off win. So I don't understand any of it and I want to so badly be like the eyeballs His eye, the ball. Like the eyeballs his eye test is binking these contests. That is so awesome. Yeah, I, I, I. I counteract that because I have no respect for him telling like projection guys to like get lost. 

33:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I agree. So if we go back to the first page here, I I I completely agree with you here. So there's a few things I I've kept up with what farley's been doing ever since we parted ways with the hammer and again, it had nothing to do with him necessarily. Um, when I, when I chatted with him on the way out, we had a very good conversation, I would say. It was like a very cordial relationship. We kind of understood that it just wasn't working. 

33:58
Um, since then I've had his podcast, uh, on my spotify and whenever I see new episode I'll try to listen to it. And I listened to one right after he won the Circa Quarterly, which he won, which was, I think, q3 this year, and I got to tell you it was one of the most upsetting things I've ever listened to in my life. I say that in all seriousness. It actually completely changed my opinion of Chris Farley as a person After he won, chris farley as a person after he won, because the 10 minutes of that, the first 10 to 15 minutes of that podcast, was my ears were bleeding, but I couldn't stop listening because I wanted to hear it through and it was basically an fu to everyone. 

34:34
Right, it's like fu if you didn't believe in me, I told you I could do this. But what really struck me and and really got to me is that, like congratulations on the contest, there's actually an element of there's always going to be an element of jealousy when you don't win something. I haven't cashed in a Circa contest. He has, he's going to always have that. But there is this market that exists, the betting market, outside of the contest, and he views the contest as like the gold standard in the space, whereas I don't. 

35:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I just want to, but he's not alone in that I, I agree yeah but fez agrees he's not alone in that I don't think fez would agree? 

35:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
honestly, I don't think he would. 

35:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think he was mostly a shot. 

35:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Obviously, the betting market is a thousand times better indicator of how good you are versus a circuit contest, especially that's like my whole thing is like okay, if you're, if, if you think like you're this great nfl, better that you know you're using your own notes and stuff. Well, guess what? Like there's this betting market exists. He says he's up 116 units when you wait when he's selling his plate like another thing. 

35:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So like when you b you're allowed to. I don't like, I know you don't like it, but like when you bink like die 19-1, you crush. The segment you win was like 120K. 

35:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What have I always said about this space? What bothers me the most in this space? 

35:56 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't know, but I don't know If you feel like you're being attacked, I don't know. Some part of internet rules say you're allowed to flip birds back. Sure, like you just binked 120K. I'm not saying that word again, oh no no, I agree with you, it's out. But you just brought that home. You cashed. If you feel people have been attacking you, you're allowed to stand up there and flip the bird too, so I don't want to hate on it. 

36:21
I feel like that seems very petty to hate on him for that. I think, Well, it can be. 

36:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I am a petty person. I will very much admit that. Like for me, when I listened to that podcast it actually felt like he was speaking directly to me. He might not have been, but it felt that way. I don't think he was speaking. 

36:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, no, no, he might have been. That could be also like maybe you're right, but that could also be main character syndrome. 

36:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That could be main character syndrome, 100%, I'm not denying it. 

36:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I like this side of. 

36:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Rob, I am purely speaking to how I feel. I could very well be wrong. I'm just telling you how I feel. I look at this tweet. I see weekly reminder and then in quotations that respected gambling accounts that tell you about models and probabilities. Don't know what they're talking about. He's talking about you. I think he's talking about me. He might as well have at Rob. Pizzola, that's what I'm saying. 

37:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I would see you as a consortium of people, but you think you are a one of one on this tweet. 

37:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, maybe you think it's in the range of outcomes. 

37:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I think it's unlikely. 

37:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right. 

37:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's entitled not to like it. I see him Put it this way, rob. I see him over the years. It seems like there's a lot from his account Goes at it, maybe with other people. He likes to defend himself or literally acknowledge bad runs. I don't know and I don't see you on the internet going at him, so maybe in your head you disagree, but I think there's actual battles from the last year that he's probably responding to. 

37:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm trying to remember the last time I think I saw Farley at Bet Bash last year, maybe two years ago, I don't know that we chatted a whole lot other than acknowledging each other or something like that. I, I, but like there's stuff that bought. It really bothers me like I look at this tweet right since becoming a pro, the last four nfl seasons he worked for us at the hammer and we started in in 2022. Okay, he would. He was had a full-time job at that time. He was definitely not a pro sports better. I'm very much aware. So it's misleading. It's like putting your how do I know the 116 units is real. He keeps a Google sheet, I mean. 

38:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I want this. If we could rewrite the tweet, maybe at Rob Pozzola, you pretentious fuck from you and your respected gambling account, friends and your models and shit. 

38:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
We came into this not knowing what this segment was. We were completely blind. I didn't realize. 

38:56 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Rob thought this is one of my favorite segments of all time. It was clearly a worthy segment. The guy's he's taking shots at model bros, I didn't realize. 

39:03 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
you thought it was a shot directly at you, it is man I love, I mean I I, I go, go. 

39:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I believe he considers you part of like a pretentious fuck community okay, I don't know that you are being singled out, but maybe you are. 

39:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Maybe you are mind when he typed out respect, maybe I. 

39:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't like how you two are trying to rub wine down. 

39:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm trying to rub you up as much as possible. 

39:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think he is saying fuck you, Rob Pozzola, You're an idiot. 

39:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This is almost like Fezzik. He is what's it called. It's very different Subtweeting. Is he subtweeting? He's subtweeting. 

39:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You Fezzik's very different, because, at the end of the day, with Farley and here's what gets me OK. This, this is what drives me crazy about the people who they fundamentally just like, don't agree with the market. They're like. They're like you know what Market's wrong, this and that, and if it is, you should be a fucking gazillionaire. Yes, because if you actually think that the betting markets are wrong, closing line doesn't mean anything and you're smarter there is no reason that you should not be a gazillionaire. You have unlimited liquidity which you can bet into. And I don't know Chris Farley. I know he's not a gazillionaire. That's what I do know. 

40:24
Okay, so, first and foremost, he is selling picks for one. What? What is the need to do that? If the, if, the, literally if the market is wrong? Talk, talk this through in your head. You are sharper than the sports betting market. Your opinion matters more. Why would you not be just betting those opinions instead of selling them? And why, when you're selling them, the market does not react at all to, eventually, your opinion would be more, because people would be like, well, this guy's better than the market. Stuff would start to move. That doesn't happen. This is just logic. Okay, pure law, so I do not like ego when it doesn't make sense. Okay, yeah, that's my, and I do view this as a direct shot at me because I consider myself a respected gambling account who models? 

41:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
who talks about models and probabilities and the seriousness of the market and how you got to respect those game day markets. 

41:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um, I mean mean this guy tweeted on christmas day an nba total moved away from him by what like eight or nine points. 

41:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He said he, his favorite bet was lakers warriors over 229 and a half. Yeah, it closed 220 and a half. 

41:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No injuries, no injuries, no injuries, checking, just checking, and the game landed 220 lost by like a half no injuries, no injuries, no injuries just checking just checking and the game landed 220 he lost by like a half point or something like. 

41:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, he lost by nine points, but he would have won if he bet the closing line, so maybe it landed 221 like. 

41:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's insane to me that the market moves eight or nine points against you, you just dismiss it like it's nothing. 

42:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So I like same behavior and and sort of you know, choosing your own adventure on how you're going to cap and win and do it. Works your bigger beef other than the fact you feel you're being subtweeted is, it is like, irresponsible because he's had this success in the contest and these are actually not the proper way to be doing it. I don't even know what my point is now. 

42:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've been worked up. I'm working because, like speaking my, and these are actually not the proper way to be doing it, or you're just mad about the sub-tweet. I don't even know what my point is now. I've been worked up. I'm worked up. 

42:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No because, like clearly I'm just speaking my I don't know that there's a point to be made. 

42:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's selling picks, yeah, and he's telling people like there's a betting market. If you are great at betting, guess what? The best bettors make more money than the other bettors. That's the way it works. 

42:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Congratulations on the plus 116 units and the but, so you more mad that you think you're being subtweeted, or that is somewhat like promoting irresponsible representation yes, number one, definitely you feel a personal attack here. I feel personal. 

43:03 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
And I listen to him. 

43:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, I'll hash it out with him on the side at some point. I'm not going to deviate from these opinions. Fez texts me every time I mention him on the show and we hash it out. I'm not scared to talk about it, but that's how I feel about that Final point, I will say announcing on Twitter that you're leaving Twitter, that's got to be like, come on Like have some self-awareness. 

43:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And the only thing on Twitter that you've left Twitter for 12 hours. 

43:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
There should be a penalty. The only thing that should have that bigger penalty is when, like defenses in the NFL, get a turnover and they go to the other end zone and they pose and celebrate and even jump in the flag and then you see like the ball rolled on the carpet. That's the only thing worse than saying I'm leaving twitter and then being back in uh, a little bit of time, the only time I I deleted twitter off my phone once yeah you got, you went to blue sky. 

43:57
No, never. I actually can't imagine being a sports fan who would have left Twitter and like on blue sky. I don't understand that. I don't even know if that person well, maybe they exist, but that's the weirdest person ever Great segment. 

44:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That was a great segment. I didn't see it going there. That was great. 

44:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That was a surprise. We do a lot of prep. I do a lot of prep for this. I wasn't expecting that that was epic. 

44:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean, I could see how there was like a hint of Rob feeling him and his ilk were attacked. I didn't know that it was like a straight. I actually think this is a one bullet chamber for me. 

44:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll tell you like I think what really happened in this situation here was by the way, this was included because it was tagged Circle back on Twitter. Most of the stuff included in this show is stuff that you guys tag for us. And I see it, I think this had been building. It had been building since I listened to that pod. I listened to that pod and I'm like, wow, this sounds like he's taught, like it's like he's talking directly to me. And then we had like the christmas day and I'm like you know, I'm just gonna let it go, there's no point. And it built. And then we got to this particular moment and it's, you know, I hope it was cathartic for you. 

45:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It was all right, it was all right, but like you had a very good NFL season, I did. You didn't need a public. 

45:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know, it would always be nice to like have a big check and a public tweet from twitter saying you did something awesome, but I think I don't. I don't need to be validated at this point in my life. Honestly, people know the what I do in the space. I've worked with many people who would. I don't need the validation. Other people have not, have not received that validation, and I can understand how that can be triggering in a sense. Like you feel like well, I'm doing really well. I had this great second half of the year NFL. Like people aren't taking notice. Why aren't people talking about I? I understand that that's human nature right, a lot of that is but I don't. I don't need validation. I don't. People rip me on Twitter all the time. Show your tickets, do that. I don't care. Like I don't care I. I literally don't care to do that. If I did, I would Plain and simple. 

46:08
I want to take a quick second here to talk to you about our new sponsor at Circles Off Underdog. Now, I'm big on product experience. I have a product background. I used to work for another company back in the day. That is my main focus and I think underdog has a product experience that's worth talking about. 

46:25
This is not your traditional sports book. This is a fantasy based skill game and, honestly, it's really fun. It's really engaging. It's worth giving it a shot. So if you're going to sign up head over to underdog, you can click the link in the description below. Use code circles. If you do use code CIRCLES, you'll get $1,000 in bonus cash plus one free pick to get you started. That's code CIRCLES. They will match your deposit of $1,000 in bonus cash and get you a free pick to get you started as well. It's worth trying it out, just for the experience. Something different, something fun. Head over to Underdog. All right, our third topic today, positive or neutral CLV. So Kirk, per usual, is stirring shit up on Twitter. This one actually made things uncomfortable for me this week and I'll speak to why. 

47:15
So Cleve TA, if you're not familiar, has his website cleveanalyticscom. He is part of our team at the Hammer over on Forward Progress does the Monday shows. We utilize him to do a lot of of recaps from sunday, going through box scores, um, how the you know basically games played out, stuff of that, um, like of that nature. I would call ta a friend. I talked to him pretty much every day throughout football season. He was pretty integral in getting the hammer off the ground as well, because of his background in finance, helped us a lot in the early going. So I just want to provide that context because it's important whenever we talk about these types of situations. 

47:54
Digs um used to be a hated enemy of mine and now we are on speaking terms. I would say he took a snapshot of ta's nfl track record for this year which outlines his season 129 and 119, 52 minus 9.6 units, which also says 75 of side slash totals with positive or neutral closing line value. And dig says 75 of side slash totals with what? Uh, obviously positive or neutral closing line value, not a term you would generally see in the sports betting space. Now we have some hammer on hammer crime. Kirk comes out here. He says starting a tout service, only betting at post, then gonna promote it, saying 100 of bets positive or neutralV. He then also became the meme king. Over the course of the week as well. He threw TA onto the Spider-Man meme with CBlez, sean Perry, fezzik, bender, rass, analytics, capper. Okay, so let's go into it here. Positive or neutral CLV. Obviously you had a very negative reaction to that. 

49:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, okay, so a couple, a couple points here. One I don't know clev at all. I actually don't think we've ever spoke to each other, so nothing personally wrong with them. Two I go into a little trouble for for these tweets. First time ever I've gone in trouble for tweets. Sorry, but that's how. In trouble like maybe told you know, lay lazy a little, do that. You didn that. 

49:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Moreno, really you didn't know that? Well, no, it's not surprising to me. 

49:31 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He didn't say delete it or anything. He said I totally get it. 

49:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's just letting you remind yourself. 

49:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Maybe. Yeah, you know you're part of the team now. 

49:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
But listen, you're throwing Moreno under the bus. That is how. No, I'm kind of glad he did it. 

49:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I kind of thought that that was from Well, me and Moreto Talked. 

49:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Moreto's a company guy. He's just letting you know. 

49:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sorry, moreto. 

49:51 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I did not mean to Alex Moreto's, my right hand man. I did not. I actually don't. I did not mean to Throw you under the bus. 

49:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean like from the perspective that Moreto plays. I don't know that. That is like like yeah he's our director of content he's trying to keep harmony. 

50:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Oh, I'm not blaming moretto for that. Just say we don't need to. I actually think that's his job. 

50:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
If people are fighting in the company just to be like, hey guys, I know you're going at it, but just a reminder, that's all like I don't agree his performance review is going to be higher, so you did him a favor. 

50:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I thought it was totally reasonable what moretto said to me yeah, it's also reasonable for you to be like I will say my response and moretto can confirm this. I said I know he's part of the team, but if I don't say anything then it's disingenuous. So that's okay, that's how. 

50:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Committed to the bit I am well, which is exactly why we're talking about this on the show, because I messaged ta on the side as well and I said listen, um, this is a topic, it has to be discussed and I will discuss it. Uh, or else it's. It's a cop if we do this show and we don't talk about stuff that our creators do as well. Like we threw Kanish. Kanish had the tweet with can't remember the other guy's name. 

50:53
Oh yeah, with that big white Dacucci like that you know we've covered that, so it's fair game and we got to do that. Right, we have to. I will say I would never put. I think part of how I want to run this company is I don't want to put restrictions on what people do. It would be nice if things were harmonious amongst all of our content creators, but it's not always going to be that way, and such is life. I don't ever want to go to somebody and be like you can't tweet this, Don't do that. I would have preferred if you didn't. 

51:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
However, that's completely on you, okay, but back to the tweet. Let's go to the original here, the Diggs tweet. So I actually saw this tweet and originally thought what's Diggs talking about? This is actually a pretty good way to track, because in my head, neutral closing line value meant he bet minus 3, 1.9 or minus 110. It closed minus minus 120 and you call that neutral closing line value not something I'd ever really heard before, but like maybe something between 0.5 to negative, 0.5 ev neutral closing line of value. And I was waiting for clev to to tweet and clarify. 

52:04
but the longer ta will never respond to digs I, but the longer it went, it was clear that neutral closing line value means you bet minus 3, minus 110, and it closes. 

52:15
And that is just a bad bet. Everyone can get neutral closing line value. It's about the easiest thing in the entire world and 75% of sides and totals with positive or neutral closing line value, if maybe 60% of sides and totals with positive or neutral closing line value, if maybe 60% are positive and 15% are neutral, maybe it's good, but that's very plausible that that's bad and it kind of explains negative 9.6 units. So that's why I tweeted that I'm going to start a tout service where I'm just getting 100% positive or neutral CLV. 

52:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So to me there's context that matters here. That's not part of that Now, where I often disagree with guys like Diggs and the Seville guys and whatever is on the right to sell, right, and all touts are bad type of situation. I've never fundamentally agreed with that. I don't think that Right. I will say this about TA and of course I'm saying this through the lens of him being a friend, and this is undoubtedly a biased take because this is just life, right, you know, your friend does something bad that you grew up with for 20 years. You're like, fuck, you shouldn't have done that. But I'm going to support you through this type of situation. 

53:34
And ta is a finance guy all right, he works in finance. He's never claimed to be a pro, not even a semi-pro. He knows football really well, but he's has a finance background. And this is like how like a loss ratio would be depicted in the finance world right, where you report back to your investors and you're like here's the percentage of your portfolio that we didn't get like a good return on. It is a very like finance type of thing. It obviously has no place in sports betting. It's not the way that I would track CLV, but he also like. He posts a weekly recap every week. He tracks on Betstamp, which anyone can go to his Betstamp profile and he locks in every single play there and has been doing that ever since we started in the Hammer, not hiding it. Of all the tout like when you look at the definition of a tout, a tout is someone who's like aggressively promoting sales for something he never does that period. So I am willing to cut him a little bit more slack on that type of situation. 

54:36
Now I'll be very honest with you. What I bet ta every plate that ta puts out, absolutely not. And there and there's many reasons for that for one, I I understand the difficulty of beating the NFL, especially when you work a full-time job and you're going to now come home and you're going to handicap the game after work and you're going to process information that the market has already been processing for five or six hours. It's going to be really hard to win that way. But I do subscribe to his service as a friend because I read every single write-up every single week and I do find value in that and he's mostly promoting that. 

55:12
So that that's kind of my defense of the situation. Is it an absolutely incoherent term to use for a sports. Better, yes, and can you get on him for selling picks and losing? Yes, that's. That's well within your right to do so I I give him a little bit more leeway because he's at least he's honest and transparent, and most of the stuff he's adding to the site nowadays are tools that other people can use for betting purposes yeah, I think everything you said there is fine, but I would just add on that if you sell picks and you go a full season losing, yeah you deserve to get shit on a bit. 

55:53 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So to me, totally fair it's it's with. 

55:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've had, I've had private conversations with ta which I'll air publicly. I don't think you'd be upset about this and um, I mean, I gotta be, you know, navigate this. But like he does not want to give picks, he doesn't does not want to get there is an appetite for there's people asking him to give picks on games. I bet you, going forwards, you might see him. He's very cognizant of the fact that it was a losing gear. I don't think he's going to run and hide from that. I think likely it's going to turn into a content site at some point where it's like here's my breakdown of the game, here's what I think you should know about the game and people will be subscribed. Like the picks thing I think was almost the pressure of this is where the industry is headed and he's doing that. But um, that's my perspective. 

56:39
I, I like ta, I I would go to bat for him on football knowledge. Is he the best, better in the world? Definitely not that for him on football knowledge. Is he the best, better in the world? Definitely not. And you know that type of nomenclature positive or neutral, clv I would never even think to describe something like that, but I do think that this is I'll call it blown out of proportion, jeff you're very quiet there. 

57:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't really. I mean I can see the term. I was a little confused by it. The finance thing makes sense. I'll just say, like I speak with them, become friends with them, like you talk ball with them, like I don't know, I enjoy hearing everything. 

57:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I talk ball with them every day. 

57:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I enjoy, like hearing his insights on the league, on games on players, on like on games on players, on just league minutiae unrelated to betting on golf. So I don't know, I don't really have an opinion, but Kirk's not wrong. The internet rules say you sell picks. Yeah, You're under 500. You're out there, you've exposed yourself. Yep, People are going to take the shots. Clearly he's doing it in a far respectable way than lots of other people and that's to be commended, I guess, because there's lots of people who absolutely don't partake in any of that, like TA could be Warren Sharp and post fake things and have this data and no tracking, but I like I don't. You know, but I don't know, I don't know. Now I'm just rambling, yeah well, I it's, it's a. 

58:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a challenging conversation to have for me and and yeah, like I will readily admit, it's tough to separate like friendship from other stuff and the reality is, if it was someone I didn't like that did that, I would probably have had kirk's reaction. 

58:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So I I completely get it, it's warranted, but also like, um, I don't know, like you don't want it to be fake or manufactured, but like two people under the same umbrella, like they want to go at it, I think that's always a good thing. I know why, moretto. I know why like Moretto wouldn't. Yeah, cause, like his POV and his, what he is looking out for is the interest. Sometimes not, but you don't like, you put on like not to make a comparison, but, like some of the best you know, barstool content. It's just when two people who work under the same place are now like Rico and Nadeau back in the day, Sure just like, yeah, just any time that happens, it's almost like if I'm Rob. 

59:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So we should embrace it Well, we kind of do, but you don't force it. 

59:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You're not forcing it, you're not creating it, you're not pouring gas, oh Kanish would. Pouring gas, oh knish. Would, if, like two people were actually going at it on the internet condition be like ah, two of pozzola's guys going at it. Everybody tune in can't wait. 

59:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Knish is the tough one to deal with because I know morettos had conversations with him before about like hey, maybe you don't want to go after this, and he just doesn't care. Whatever, it's, it's his, his prerogative. I get what you're saying. Anyways, I, I, um, yeah, I, I get it. I mean, I listen, it's, it's his prerogative. I get what you're saying. Anyways, I, I, um, yeah, I, I get it. I mean, I listen, it's, it's. This is entirely hypocritical. If it was like jj gruden that tweeted that not that I'm comparing ta to gruden, they're not even in the same league but if it was like that guy, I would be quote tweeting that and being like what the fuck is this? Whatever. So I get it, but I think TA positions himself more as like a ball knower than picks expert. I don't, I've never seen that from him. I didn't even. Honestly. 

01:00:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm trying to even remember not that I like have notifications on I don't even know when he promotes this shit. 

01:00:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He doesn't. 

01:00:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, but he still sells them, he. Now I feel like he still sells them, he still sells them, he still sells them and you have to be open to the criticism. 

01:00:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm not trying to take away from Kurt's points. I get you guys are friends, I'm actually like, but I mean internet friends. 

01:00:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've never spoken with him. I have no personal connection to him. I'm not invalidating your opinion. It is fair and it's what you said. 

01:00:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If you would have tweeted the same thing as me. 

01:00:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
maybe not as good of a meme, because I think this is a great meme, Even if I think he probably isn't of the ilk of the others. I think this is good meme work. 

01:00:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like in general, what's happening here. He's become the meme he walked in this morning. He's like I was trying to come up with this meme today. 

01:01:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I couldn't get it, no literally, we were watching football yesterday. I was scrolling through every meme template To try getting one and I couldn't get there. 

01:01:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
My only thing, my word for If you want to enter the meme world here, an experienced meme creator Would not get caught with a watermark On their memes. 

01:01:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's because it's a free, though it's a free. If you think I know how to do this shit. I'm taking hours to try figuring this shit out. Gotta be cognizant of that going forward. I am useless with the art, the actual figuring it out. 

01:01:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm like asking ChatGPT how to figure it out. I've got no idea, but I've got the imagination for it. I was big into the meme world for a while. 

01:01:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
My favorite one is the car driving and veering hard right. There's different signage and it's like you know Tailing Kanisha's picks and then like you'd find someone that's worse than him and put that on the on the exit side. 

01:01:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's like tailing jj gruden's picks and the car viewers right I saw that I'm a big fan of those, those ones, but it didn't fit my what I wanted to make. Yeah, I'll search again today. 

01:01:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm a big fan of your meme game. Big fan of your meme game all right, I'm some bangers today, rob the content writes itself. 

01:02:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
By the way, rob called this a light week, where we didn't have much. 

01:02:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, no, and look at what we got already so my weekly process is I keep up with what's going on on on Twitter on a weekly and I bookmark stuff as I see it so I can review it later in the week and usually out of those bookmarks I'll get like 20 to 25 possible topics. This week I got less. I was very reliant on the hashtags. Thank you, hashtag circle back one more time, uh, and then I was like holy shit, like I didn't know how did I miss this stuff? And uh, and we really went in and there was a lot of hashtag circle back in regards to some taylor mathis stuff. This week. It's been a long time, uh, I don't know like a month maybe, since we've had a taylor mathis. 

01:02:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That's because we missed one of the shows it's true, it could have been much worse. 

01:02:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So there's a lot of stuff going on in this world that I have not been privy to for a while. I love this ecosystem. It's really different from and this is not like a gambling discussion. This is a gambling twitter discussion, but je Nadeau has been very much calling out Taylor for a while now and he said you know, come on to spaces with me and we'll hash it out. And she responded, and she said that she would. So he set up a Taylor Mathis, I will wait for 20 minutes space in which he waited for 20 minutes and she did not show up. 

01:03:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
She responded I'm not doing this without a mod, lol, and it should be a joint spaces, not one that only nadoo starts like sure I get, like she wants a mod because, like she doesn't, someone to maybe be fair and balanced with the people brought in to speak A little protection. 

01:03:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I honestly think it's very fair yeah. 

01:03:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I just think in the early goal like you go to the clubs, the girls, there's always some protection. Sure, a hundred percent Right. 

01:03:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, as a handler, or something like that. 

01:03:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't think that's like If Nadeau really wants to speak to her and hash it out, that's a fair request. 

01:04:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, nadu's been going on since the crypto stuff, right like his whole thing was like this is the rug pull, and since then he's been. He's been all over that situation do likes. 

01:04:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean he is likes the, he's old school, yeah, and he likes he liked it old school. So he, he likes to call out a lot of the new school me and I used to have some beefs on twitter back in the day. 

01:04:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If spaces existed, I bet you we would have found ourselves at the time. 

01:04:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I could load up an insane, like six year old DM battle of me and Nadeau. Like insane, like insane, like I would want to like I don't want to say it cause I maybe put more work to like beep it, um, but like insane. And now I like the guy yep, I I mean I don't know him actually, but like you, I find him endearing and yeah, I mean I'll just put this out there. You see, like credit to anybody who's able to like do that good for themselves and um improve themselves physically as much as he did. 

01:05:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He lost like 150 pounds. 

01:05:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Lost a lot like like the commitment, the discipline, the willpower, the ability to like, just want to change, yeah, your lifestyle like 10 full, 10 out of 10 agreed full marks to jeff I will say maybe he could do a bit better with his haircut. Sure, that's its own thing. 

01:05:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You were 200 pounds, but I like it as an internet fan of his. 

01:05:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I like it. It's like part of the Nadeau ambiance, I agree, and when he shows off like a fresh dew, that gets me. 

01:05:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
In the same way. 

01:05:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
George shows off when he lets you know fresh gel, fresh dew, yeah, and then he I mean whatever to each their own, but like when you think something is weird and someone else is bragging about it, it makes it that much more fucking awesome. 

01:05:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It looks like he perpetually wears a hockey helmet and then has just taken it off. 

01:06:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't know the kids these days. I got like younger nephews, that kind of rock, Not, I got like younger nephews that kind of rock. 

01:06:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Not that, but like similar. 

01:06:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And he's like closer to our age, he's closer to our age, but he's still, like you know, out on the crawl on Friday nights with the Stella's looking for action. So you got to keep it tight and fresh. 

01:06:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
A hundred percent Um as part of this. Uh, someone tagged SB influencer um saying that he should be the mod for this. He said I think by mod Taylor means one of her simps. Unfortunately I don't fit the criteria. Taylor says I don't care, as long as you're neutral. You hate me too. I don't know who you are. He says I don't hate you, I just think you're a pretty woman who uses their body to bring zero value to the industry. Did she respond to that? 

01:06:43
I don't know that she did, but I wasn't looking because it got like personal or ugly it was nadu, then it sb influencer sb influencer of fairness is not just picking on taylor, he's picking on what he considers to be like sportsbook influencers in the space. Um, and then we had she did reply to us. 

01:07:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He said you should actually listen to my spaces. I do study and know the industry. I also feel like you just assume things from walking bets. I've been in the industry long enough. 

01:07:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Sorry for people assuming things. 

01:07:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sorry for assuming things because of walking bets. 

01:07:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Sorry, Jacob. No, I'm an idiot for doubting that you wouldn't have it up there. That's my fault. 

01:07:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I'm an idiot for forgetting. I put it in. 

01:07:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He responded I listened to the Spaces last night for 10 minutes and you shared multiple plays you liked, with no lines mentioned. I definitely do not watch Walking Bets Definitely two people that are not going to get along over time. 

01:07:41 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
SB Influence is a good account, by the way. 

01:07:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would say so, but he went after me for the Masterclass stuff, so I soured on him. 

01:07:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I would agree, though the best out of these types of accounts like what was that other one? 

01:07:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
gambling, gambling he sucked sb influence I gotta, honestly, I owe gambling whoever created that original gambling twitter drama account. They had such a brilliant idea, but did it in such a piss poor way that it that this is where it's circled back. Yeah, I'm like this could be huge if you actually had people who know what they're talking about and know the industry rather than there's just this one goof from this account and uh, so thank you to whoever ran that account. 

01:08:22
Um, what I'm really interested in, though, uh, from the outside looking in, is we actually like have new people getting involved in these types of beefs. Now Taylor posts a picture turtleneck season picture of her in a turtleneck. Someone named Nicole out of nowhere never heard of this girl before says bro, horrendous Photoshop job. Horrendous photoshop job. The internet sleuths then come in and there are sites out there where you can upload an image and it'll tell you if it's been photoshopped or doctored and wherever it was. And this image was photoshopped so I didn't know this. 

01:08:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But like again, rob, we're like kind of boomer. They're like younger guys that you know work here, that like know these things, that you know full-on instagram era that you could put a photo in and they tell you where it's been doctored. This is all news news to me. It makes sense. When you asked me about this, I was like I had seen like on the internet before, just kind of being perpetually online like you know, pretty influencer models, whatever would get into like catfights about photoshopping, yeah, but I never be like in the sports betting space, yeah. Like like bros like us, like we're just got like there's. 

01:09:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You can't save us with the photoshop, no there's nothing that can be saved enough hair to me in a photoshop, and I guess in sports betting. 

01:09:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
if you're going to Photoshop, it's more like people lying about tickets or bets. Yeah, we're not sort of used to the Photoshop for filters and appearances because we can't be saved by that. 

01:10:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've never once thought about my appearance when I've posted a picture online. Not once I posted one where I was still under the influence of drugs, when I left the dentist to get my wisdom teeth removed and I looked very confused and it didn't even bother me. Never once thought about it, but I do. 

01:10:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, like it's not an uncommon thing for females in other industries on the internet to call each other out for Photoshopping. 

01:10:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, it's come into gambling Twitter now and there's like some serious vitriol with this girl, nicole. That came out and I want to get your opinion on whether or not you view it as petty or you view it as like. Whatever you view it as, so lots of people are going in and be like why are you calling out Taylor and you know she's got her army defending? Calling her out for setting unrealistic standards for women because she's trying to hide her pregnancy isn't being hateful. It's holding someone accountable. Taylor says this is absurd behavior. She says so. Is you lying about your only fans? That you started the walking bets, that you know anything about sports, photoshopping your pics? You make an edited and cut crypto apology video and you buy your followers and you harass espn slash, barstool people for a job. You're not a good person. 

01:11:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I saw this I mean, she didn't even did she, she didn't even um talk about what do you think? 

01:11:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
there's something missing in there jack, I do something that you think should have been added. 

01:11:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, she didn't talk about lying about her family being extorted, yep. 

01:11:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
And some self-harm situation. 

01:11:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The crypto apology video has like 20 tentacles. I know it really does, but I don't know Like good, if girls I can see why, like other females are offended, I can as well by it Like it comes off different than when, like sports betting, guys are like she can't even name six players on the commanders. Who does she have a right to make a bet? Like that comes off like different than when it's like girls being like fuck you and your walking bets. 

01:12:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I get it. I mean, we were tagged in this and my first reaction was like ooh. You know, like the oof size gif, where the oof meter is to the max, the edge meter, your edge meter, not the edge meter, the oof meter. Who's the coach? It was the old Portuguese soccer coach on the oof meter. I can't remember his name. Is it Mourinho? No, not Mourinho. 

01:12:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I know the gif. 

01:12:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Anyways, somebody's going to figure it out in the comments down below. 

01:12:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That's a heavy message. 

01:12:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's like she said the quiet part out loud, but I don't know. The quiet part gets said out loud a bit. 

01:12:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I think I don't know that was Scolari right. 

01:12:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This lady seems angry and jealous to me Like I don't know. I don't really think the thing that frustrates me about Taylor a little bit. 

01:13:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I care very little about her. If I'm being honest, she wants you to respect her information. 

01:13:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Hang on, hang on, whoa, whoa, whoa. You said you care very little about her, but she's on the show at least once a month. Yeah, that's true. It's like leaving Twitter, then coming back to her and saying you're leaving. 

01:13:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Twitter. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants you to respect her bedding, but she doesn. Standards for women. 

01:13:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like yeah, that's, I'm sure that's heavy talking about. 

01:13:32 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't think Taylor Mathis is setting the unreal. There are girls at home crying who are 14. Oh I, I can't look like this Taylor Mathis, like I don't think that's true there are girls. 

01:13:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I want to be like Taylor when I grow up. Daddy, she's a sports betting influencer? 

01:13:47 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
She's not. 

01:13:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Khloe Kardashian. I don't view that as a fair criticism anyways, and if she is attractive and people find her attractive and she wants to use her body to her benefit. She's totally entitled to do that. 

01:13:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Using your sexuality to get ahead. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't believe there's anything wrong with that at all. There's nothing wrong with that. No, I don't believe there's anything wrong with that at all. But, like kirk said, it's a lot of like cake. Eat it too. Respect me for using my sexuality, respect me for my like bets and my knowledge. When you don't, you're just like a hater or an asshole. And then it's like can you imagine, like rob, if someone came at you on the internet and I thought they were being like wrong and unfair or something, or misrepresenting something that I had more information on, like sure I'd probably like chirp in there. You're my friend, right? The amount of fucking people that like will run to this woman's defense. 

01:14:39
I know, because she will say diamondbacks tonight outside in a tank top is is um, like that is what I marvel at, because if that's what you want, like there's way better websites for that. Like if that's what you're using the internet for, like I can show you. Like you don't know how to use the internet, I do admit that I find that rather unusual. 

01:15:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know what. I don't know what people think that they're going to get out of. Maybe they're honestly. A date, or maybe, I mean, are they just kind-hearted people? I don't know, it's an age-old internet question. 

01:15:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's like what do you get out of doing this? 

01:15:19 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I get her, she gets to grow herself. She's done quite well for herself. She's made some hiccups which have cost her, you know, some opportunities. 

01:15:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
but listen like when in doubt, fucking start walking and everything will be okay, I I think when you get to the level that she's at now and you're embroiled in uh, so many she's gonna call them controversies, right like nothing burgers, though kind of too sure. 

01:15:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like you're a pretty girl, some other girls calling you up for photoshopping. You've got to count that as a nothing burger and you just got to ignore and move on. 

01:15:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, like that's what I was gonna say she should just stop replying to anyone. That should be a taylor math. It seems like a real big problem. 

01:15:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But like even the whole crypto thing right the, the taylor coin or whatever she just went offline for three days and then came back afterwards. Most of it would have blown over her getting involved posting a video. This and that either you have to address. Address it with 100% sincerity. 

01:16:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, address it Like buddy, do you know quickly, anyone who's like turned on you or said something mean about you would like flip if you just like sincerely and like showed even a modicum of proof, like someone actually like flip if you just like sincerely and like showed even a modicum of proof, like someone actually like got to you and extorted you and like threatened some personal information of you or your family. Do you know quickly, like even the biggest hard asses on the internet like it'd be like okay, well yeah, sorry, like sorry yeah, like that should happen to nobody. 

01:16:47
But, like you said, she plays it. She always wants both sides. 

01:16:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If we think back to the first topic of conversation on this show about Taylor Mathis, I believe was in regards to the Taylor coin Right Like I'm almost certain. 

01:17:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think there was one before. 

01:17:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
No way we had one before where it was just like a general assessment of walking bets. 

01:17:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Walking bet Her and Lucy. Come on, there was something. Yeah, come on. 

01:17:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, so second Taylor coin and I sat here, remember there was a debate. 

01:17:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
People were like the IP of walking bets had to have been when. 

01:17:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
People were like I invented walking bets. This is in that tweet that you started walking bets. She's saying that that's a lie. 

01:17:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, that's also like who cares? But this is what I'm getting. But my whole point is that I sat here. I don't want to say I defended. 

01:17:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Inventing walking bets is like inventing putting French fries in your hamburger Sure. I agree with you, come on. 

01:17:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you can't trademark it. It's going to have like whatever Move. But my whole thing is I sat here and I was like I don't think Taylor was complicit in any sort of crypto scam. I think that she just didn't know any better. But there's so many things that have happened since then where I'm like everything feels phony for me right now. Everything, everything, everything there feels like no authentic message, and I could be wrong and we're here. 

01:18:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm here. 

01:18:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's the way I feel about it. 

01:18:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But everything feels phony and you know how hard like I'm, not like it all feels phony and I a damsel in distress it's. You know, fall for it, but nothing feels real about, about. There's always a controversy how does this happen? 

01:18:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think she just doesn't like she leans in. 

01:18:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
She unintentionally leans into it. 

01:18:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
She replies too much. I think I tweeted this about the crypto thing. I think I said I stand with Taylor. I still stand with Taylor. Go to the next tweet, because it makes it look even worse. 

01:18:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're talking about when they're mocking their walkers. 

01:18:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, like these are mean girls. I can't believe. Sarah said it. Like, doesn't she cover the nhl? Like, what is she doing tweeting this? This is I don't. I actually don't. I once again, I stand with taylor. 

01:18:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This is okay, I don't okay. You could like say why are they doing this? Why are they not? 

01:18:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would agree. 

01:18:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This is this is, but this is like an ode to taylor. This would be like getting, but they send out like. It's like oh shit, I did something stupid. I'm that big that it's like being um mock. So this is like imitation is the greatest form of flattery. Yeah, this actually shows her scale in some ways. Agreed, it's not just simp guys in the comments defending Correct. It's like other women bashing, but in the end it's like I don't know. She's using her sexuality, she's getting ahead. I just wish it wasn't like the respect my fucking information. Yeah, that is where she and I get it. Maybe that's part of the bit that I am marking out. That's my trigger point, but it's when respect I don't even care. No lines, that is so bad. That's its own thing. 

01:19:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But like the respect, my information, it's like I actually handicap these games. I'm doing research. 

01:19:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's where I can't, but I don't mean to like get long winded here. I don't mean to open a Pandora's box. I know I do. There's a pregnancy allegation that went right over my head. 

01:20:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know the details so I don't even want to speculate and cover it. 

01:20:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This is important capping. I need to know this for capping purposes. Well. 

01:20:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I found a screenshot. 

01:20:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay. 

01:20:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Listen, maybe she was lying in the tweet. However, according to Taylor Mathis via her own Twitter account, through a now deleted post, somebody asked Taylor Mathis is pregnant. She says have been for a long time, I'm tired. Then somebody said congrats on the pregnancy and she said thank you. 

01:20:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And then she deleted the tweet confirming a pregnancy Correct, which? 

01:20:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
obviously lots of people have seen that's a red flag Because Jacob has seen it, what you don't? 

01:20:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
think that's real, why has seen it what you don't think that's real, why? 

01:20:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Why Like so she's? 

01:20:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
not pregnant, I don't even know she's probably pregnant, but just doesn't want people to know about it. The claim is Because that is the claim is Ammo. 

01:20:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
The claim is that this is Photoshopped. 

01:21:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Her waist is Photoshopped to hide her pregnancy Sure if you're uncomfortable. Also, to your point where I thought the tweet was a little mean. If someone is pregnant and they're not feeling good about I'm not saying and you're not feeling the best about yourself at the moment because there's changes happening and you want to use a filter or change something, I don't think that's damaging to women. Agreed, I'm the last person that can make that claim, because I'm not. 

01:21:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know what the big deal is in the first place about photoshop. Like I would never do that personally, but like if someone did photoshop the the image of themselves, I I really if your stick is your appearance, then maybe that's where the value is, that, like, that's what you got to protect. 

01:21:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
People aren't following anyone here for their good looks, so I don't give a shit most definitely not got rock and a cold sore. 

01:21:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Haven't shaved in like three weeks preceding hairline. People are not following me for the good looks I don't have, so although you might remember tracy purden back in the day, jeff tracy, oh I yeah, Rob had a. 

01:22:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
we worked at a radio station together and there was, Rob had an admirer. So it is true, Rob's good looks did come across. 

01:22:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I did have hair back in the day. Used to stay clean shaven. 

01:22:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I would say I know it's like I guess none of our business, but I'm just going to put this out there If we could get confirmation on the pregnancy. I might ride on a couple of parlays or plays, Sorry you were more likely to tail her plays. Yeah, like if the milk pickers actually have official milk. I feel like this is like baby swag, death swag. I think maybe we could ride some plays. I'd line shop for the best numbers. You've got to tweet the slips If you're tailing her. 

01:22:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You've got to prove it. 

01:22:56 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
With actual odds, actually when you tail her. 

01:22:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So yeah, we'll see. But I'm just saying, if like, Do you buy into like? No, okay, well, why? Not as Brett Favre's dad passes away and he plays the next game. It was one of, like my biggest bets in college, Like what a night. Yeah, what a night. 

01:23:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

01:23:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I know like that's a bad word. You don't want to like lock free all that stuff. It might be the most like like square thing we've ever been a part of my entire. I wasn't like in a dorm, but like just almost like. Imagine that like setting, like there wasn't a everybody like hammered. I don't even know what the prop situation was back then it didn't exist yeah but like could you imagine what'd be going on? 

01:23:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
brett bar passing yards over four plus touchdowns sounds horrible. 

01:23:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I got, I mean, a bit of baby swag. I don't. I think, uh, you have a bit of an afterglow I you can get me to believe in that. Um, okay, and death swag. But there's parameters to death swag. Yeah, like it can't be something so tragic that it like fucks you up. Yeah, you know, someone like suddenly, suddenly, or someone like totally not of an appropriate age to be passing like that's the sort of shit that'll like fuck you up. You've really thought this through? Yeah, no, but if it's like just like time and like someone like it's, yeah, let's go any any I'm not. 

01:24:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I don't play props, so it's not like really motivating factors that aren't sad news like if you just have a kid. 

01:24:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I don't play props, so it's not like really motivating factors that aren't sad news like if you just have a kid no, I don't like these are intrusive thoughts that you typically I don't actually like. 

01:24:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That I don't actually bet this like stuff right, but I but I, but I do believe in like uh, parameters are interesting it's extra motivation for the player. 

01:24:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, it has to be factors into a handicap and sometimes it's not priced in effectively. 

01:24:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, sure. 

01:24:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I could buy it. I don't want to detail the parameters, can't quantify everything. 

01:24:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Because that could come up like mean spirit or something you don't want to give out an edge. 

01:25:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I just mean like no, be careful what you say because the sharps will go after you if you are giving out a real angle here. 

01:25:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You know someone's, you know if, like that mentor or that, like important influencer in that person's life, had you know came at the appropriate time. That's a lot different than something like really sudden or totally like jarring the home front. 

01:25:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What about the golfer that just had a kid Baby swag? Yeah, you're into that. You're back in that golfer for a little bit. 

01:25:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, like it depends. If I already like the golfer, then maybe it's a reason to go. My logic would be you've got this like eight-foot pressure putt Right. You're not even like you have like the none of you guys are fathers, but like the immediate portion of being a father. There's a bit of an afterglow. Okay, you feel like you are walking the baby bump? 

01:25:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Let's add it to the models. 

01:25:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, you feel like you're walking on a cloud Yep 10-foot pot. Normally it'd be like, and now it's just like. I don't know. Make miss whatever. No nerves. 

01:26:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
All right, yeah, that's all I like. 

01:26:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That I don't actually like this stuff. 

01:26:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It'd be like oh, I'm already on this guy I found out he had a no. You might add a few more dollars. Use your bet boost on one of those. 

01:26:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't really even bet props to be like oh, that guy's like grandma past night to load up. Yeah, Like it's not even my thing, but I'm a believer in death swag and baby swag. I I wish I was liking that conversation. I don't know why we got distracted other than to say confirmation will ride all right. 

01:26:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's producer jacob the giant here in front of the main cameras for a change, to tell you about the brand new instagram and tiktok pages for circles off. We are very excited to be launching this channel's very own specialized platforms where we're still gonna be bringing you the best clips and highlights from the shows. We already do like Circle Back and the Circles Off flagship podcast, where you can relive the best moment from the episodes that you've seen or perhaps catch up on some of the stuff that you may have missed. But on top of this, we're even more excited to tell you that we have exclusive content coming to these platforms in 2025 that you will not be getting anywhere else. So make sure you're following at circles off HQ on TikTok and on Instagram by simply searching at circles off HQ on these platforms or by going to the links in the description of this video. But now let's get back to the show. 

01:27:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Our weekly installment of Steve Fezzik comes this week with his battle against Starbucks as a franchise. Very much a supporter of Dunkin'. Me and Kirk are both drinking. Starbucks here today as well. 

01:27:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Suck it Fezz. I mean, it's in the building, it's in the building and I like the coffee. I do like the coffee. I go to Starbucks every day. 

01:27:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Do you really Pretty much? Yeah, yeah, I drink. I don't even want to tell you. 

01:27:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That's got to add up. It's a lot of money, no, Jacob if I I get a black coffee. 

01:27:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Don't think about it, yeah. 

01:27:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, $3. You spend over $1,000 on coffee. 

01:27:56 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Hopefully I win a couple NBA matches. My number is much more than that. 

01:27:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's real sad when I think about it. It's an obsession Fez's obsession with Starbucks, so he's going out. Can someone please forward to the CEO of Starbucks and explain that his business had no chance of succeeding, selling pastries that are subpar to Dunkin' Donuts at gouging prices at Caesars? If I had to pay this for that product, I would make an oath never, ever, to go back to a Starbucks. $5.75 for a glazed donut, $11.55 for a brown sugar oat milk espresso. 

01:28:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I love Fezzik. I know he can get like a, like I can find annoying but like that, this, this just comes and it's so there and it's listen, we all have these moments where we think we're in like a Seinfeld episode in some way, like just these things, but he's forgetting the fact? 

01:28:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Are you saying Fez is Costanza, because he could be, but forgetting the? 

01:28:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
fact that Fez in some way should have like a sub stack. Yeah, for these sorts of like rants. 

01:28:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know, because he can go on rants. Yeah. 

01:28:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You know Well that's what Twitter is for, but who railing about like an in hotel, like a Vegas hotel? Yeah, he's at caesar. It's like being in the airport or at the ballpark and complaining like you are in I was gonna say the same thing you know it's not even fair parameters. I don't give a shit about starbucks or their pastries. 

01:29:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know what starbucks is worth as a franchise sure they are worth 105 billion. Okay, they don't have great pay. I think they're doing okay Like they've done the market research. 

01:29:31 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That is my problem with this tweet the idiocy to say. Can someone please tell me how the CEO of Starbucks and explain that he thinks his business has no chance of succeeding? 

01:29:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They are worth over a hundred Succeeding selling pastries. Maybe they don't care. 

01:29:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't want to get into this eating selling pastries. Maybe they don't care. I don't want to get into this. They, of course, are successful at selling pastries. They're worth $105 billion? 

01:29:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No one, I I mean this is like a whole other discussion, but now it's got me on a tangent and I've actually. Starbucks is like trending down big time and their business and a lot of it is like their freaking baristas think they're like union worthy yeah, and a lot of it is like they're freaking baristas think they're like union worthy yeah. Okay, these people are ridiculous. Like how much goes in the entire process of getting that coffee bean to that store? Yeah, and all the people involved? Yep, you're not the special one. You're not the special one. I'm with you. Now they have a problem. They make the drinks too hard and difficult and annoying for them to make. That's a whole other thing. 

01:30:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're kind of tough yeah. 

01:30:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But these people behind the counter, they're not the special one in the chain of getting everything there that they should be put on some fucking pedestal Feisty Feinberg, that's all Holy shit we're going to get into the barista unions here today on Circle Back. 

01:30:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But okay, there's a theory, there's a working theory about this with Fezzik and I think it's well. First of all, grp. Yeah, go back a little bit. We have to include GRP. This week. I'm having a Fezzik sports breakfast today. Overpriced coffee and cake from Starbucks. Classic GRP Commitment. 

01:31:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Doing it for the bit. 

01:31:02 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Commitment to the bit. Commitment to the bit. Commitment to the bit, because do you know how much it pains George to probably be having this for breakfast? 

01:31:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sure, this is like a $12 breakfast and he could have had ham off the boat Also overpriced coffee. 

01:31:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's drinking a hot chocolate with whipped cream like a seven-year-old. That's what my kids would drink when we get there. 

01:31:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a child's drink man. 

01:31:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's a cold day in the Midwest. How is this breakfast, George? 

01:31:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You're having a cake and hot chocolate with whipped cream. They want a hot drink. I drink hot chocolate. 

01:31:31 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That looks like lemon loaf. You get that for breakfast. 

01:31:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yes, I don't know if it was in the last tweet, but because Fez singled out the lemon loaf Lemon loaf yeah. For having the shitty little line of icing. 

01:31:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Listen, they're very overpriced. I will eat Starbucks food if it's a last resort but it's a convenience thing, it's just purely convenient. 

01:31:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I mean, I like the Starbucks breakfast. I think they do a really good, very healthy breakfast as well. 

01:31:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I agree with that. 

01:31:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I like the bacon, gouda and egg sandwich, Not that one. 

01:32:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, that's good too, you get the egg white spinach wrap or the egg white bites, you can actually get a really good healthy breakfast. 

01:32:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, there you go. Starbucks is not paying us anything, so we're not going to continue talking about that. But there is a theory. It came from a guy in cornfields. 

01:32:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Weston. I'm following Weston right now, big Weston fan, so I'm going to read this whole tweet. 

01:32:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Thank you for the hashtag at the end as well. How bad of an nfl season was it for fesic sports? So bad that now, for the third time in a month, he has went on a rant about the food items at starbucks. Why do you ask? Because as a caesar seven stars, he gets a ten dollar daily food comp at Starbucks at Caesars in Las Vegas. For someone who claims he has made millions in football contests, this is just bizarre behavior. This is 100 times worse than GRP wins giving his mom lottery tickets for Christmas, hoping she hits and he will inherit the winnings. Hashtag circle back. It's not worse. 

01:33:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's not, but I like the tweet anyway. It's a great tweet. It's definitely not worse than GR the tweet anyway, it's a great tweet. It's definitely not worse. It's not worse. 

01:33:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We've got to draw a line somewhere Getting your mother lottery tickets when you live in her house is just as embarrassing. 

01:33:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
No no, you don't need to live in her house for it to be embarrassing. 

01:33:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You should be getting her those tickets weekly. It's Friday. Yeah, mom, here are the tickets. 

01:33:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Agreed, agreed. Now, in terms of this rant itself and the theory here, it seems actually extremely plausible. 

01:33:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The more and more I think about it. The idea that so when he's having a bad week, he rants, so people change the subject. Is that what this theory? 

01:33:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
is no. This theory is just simply that he's accrued a lot of Caesars points. He's in the top level of Caesars because of his betting status and he gets a $10 daily food comp. So he goes to Caesars and he can't get a coffee and and some piece of food a pastry for less than the $10 food comp because of the price inside the Caesars. 

01:34:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I got that part bad football season. That he's curious about it. 

01:34:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I misread that in the sense that, like the season is going bad, that he's furious about it. I misread that in the sense that the season is going bad that he'll distract you from his picks by going on food rants. What he's saying is the season is going so bad that he's using his comp. He's so upset that he can't not fitting in the comp is exponentially more tilting because the bets aren't going great. 

01:34:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I actually think that this theory has moved to like a minus 500 favorite. The more and more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I don't want to say like I know Fez, like I know his, but we chat via text. We've interacted in person before I know. 

01:34:40 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I can't wait actually to like have a real life Fez Interaction. 

01:34:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He loves you, I'm hit or miss. Loves you, saginaw, I'm hit or miss. He said Saginaw. 

01:34:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Sure, I just sit there, I let him speak. You know what's funny? Because I did offer to pay at Saginaw and he said I do have comps here and he comped. I would just want to hear him, like A go at people, tell me like anything, make fun of you, I don't care, I can't wait. I can't wait Next time I'm in Vegas, I'm going to get it, I'm going to get the full experience. 

01:35:14 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You also said this. I was also a seventh star until Caesars. Yeah, they took their points Whatever. That was honestly bullshit. But irrespective, like you can't comment onbucks if you're buying it at the caesar star, yeah, it is the most expensive place. The food, the you could get a wrap there for like 40. It's the craziest, most expensive place. It has no reflection on exactly it's like coffee in a casino, you're paying double, triple. 

01:35:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I've really done question because I'm not a big Starbucks guy. Yeah, but are the prices like the one downstairs? We're in a downtown central location. 

01:35:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It could be different from the price of the street. It'd be like cheaper than like one midtown. 

01:35:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Not that I give a shit if I want the quarter, but like the prices. Clearly. Airports, hotels, that's not universal fucking pricing. No, that Starbucks. 

01:36:03 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, that Starbucks was the most expensive Starbucks I've ever seen, by like three hours. 

01:36:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, that's more expensive than like Canadian dollar price. 

01:36:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So that's a bad, like that's just right there. His rant is like kind of base. 

01:36:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Like I get weird, I don't like it was accurate. 

01:36:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's like. But like you know how much I can get this hot dog for in the first place. It's like in the ball in the stadium I can pay like ten dollars for this hot dog. Outside I get from the vendor for 350. Oh, like, of course, man, you're not teaching me anything. Yeah, I'm with you exactly. That being said, obviously you can tell I'm a bit of like a fast food guy. I will say I will say patience like a little low, in the sense that this new era of like fucking fast food everything but fast food has gotten like crushed by inflation. Yeah, where, like, my acceptance for the fuck up is a lot lower because I'm like paying a real price now. Like you give me that flat soda. You put something on my burger I didn't want In the past. I suck it up Like I'm not paying anything. 

01:37:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

01:37:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But now, like you're paying, like it's getting like a combo, you're paying like an insane price where it's like no, if you fuck that up, I'm actually really fucking pissed. Yes, that is, um, I guess, my current fast food rant of the day okay, fair, it's not bad. 

01:37:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's better than your barista rant. 

01:37:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'll tell you that no, no, no, listen, you tip tipping is fine, I'm not talking about that. But they think they are like, no, let's glad hand, like the dude picking the beans, let's glad hand the dude on the truck driving it in, like you're the last line of this fucking thing. Yeah, you're the final stage. 

01:37:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I hear you let's go to the next tweet. All right, let's do it. 

01:37:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Mortgage advice with no no no, oh no, the worst specific tweet. Oh, I forgot about this. 

01:37:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I forgot this was even in the rundown. It was a late edition. Wow, I can't even believe. I'm going to read this out loud in full. Guys, please do not have the emotional intelligence of a 10-year-old. If your team loses in the playoffs, it is not a big deal. There are single mothers working two jobs, raising special needs children alone and taking care of sick relatives. Grow up. Stop being a baby. The Steelers losing is an eight and a half point underdog is not even a blip on a normal person's radar screen of bad events. 

01:38:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I assume he just saw like a Jersey Jerry tweet, as the Steelers were getting their ass kicked. 

01:38:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I am like I love my Fez, by the way. Yeah, fez, fez, fez tweeting this. Yeah, I don't know what to make of this. 

01:38:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like I'm obsessed with my team. I love my team, crushing defeat, like the game. So like I'm obviously aware like people are getting up at like four in the morning to do menial labor, like to do the worst jobs. There's single mothers, there's nurses wiping someone's ass. Like I'm not quantifying my like woe is me to that Disguising but in like the four hours I'm watching the game, I'm in the game. When the game's over, the game's over. 

01:39:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
There's so many things about this Absolutely Like. This is the worst Fezzik tweet ever, in my opinion, Ever. Ever by far so one he says, emotional intelligence of a 10-year-old. This is literally the 10-year-old argument. You could say this to anyone who complains about anything. 

01:39:18
Oh well, there are starving children here. How are you going to complain about that? It's such a stupid, childish argument. And also, we are here right now because people are fans of sports. Fezzik gets to sell his shitty picks and pretend he's a good sports. Better, because people are fans of sports. That is why this industry exists. 

01:39:39 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think he is a good sport. I don't think the picks are shitty, yeah. 

01:39:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't mean to pile up. I don't necessarily think the clients will win yeah, we're like. 

01:39:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm piling on a defense. 

01:39:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You're right, you're right, he wins at his 3 am picks that he posts at only Vegas books. I'm sure you know, prince from Nebraska. He's a winner, he's a super book when he posts it at 3 am, I'm sure. But he's winning, is he even? 

01:40:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
betting. Yeah, anyway, let's go get it. I don't want to distract you. Keep going. 

01:40:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This tweet sucks. It's so stupid and saying something like this makes my brain hurt Saying something like this after complaining about Starbucks prices. That's also true, two days after you complained about. Starbucks prices Great point, great point. Thank you, jacob. Great point. 

01:40:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Now, all of a sudden, think about the single mothers. 

01:40:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm going to reply. Anytime he tweets, I'm going to reply. But what about the single mother working two jobs? 

01:40:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I actually am so dumb that I took this tweet to like no, I'm going to defend, like the guy who loves his team, who's enjoying the game, who's going to like send a tweet watching the game, but no, this tweet in the follow up to the guy screaming caesar starbucks. 

01:40:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's just such an insane way to think about life. It's like, okay, every time something bad happens to me, I'm gonna take a step back and be like you know what? I gotta grow up. Perspective. There's wildfires happening. Like I listen, condolences to everyone who's been affected by la wildfires. I mean, there's people in the world, like you said, said, that are starving, that have, like they don't have, the same types of advantages. That's how am I going to live my life that way, jeff? I'm going to get up. In the morning I got a headache. I'd be like, ah, you know what, it could be worse, I could be dying. What about? 

01:41:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
like, what about what needs children alone? What about the homeless mother who's raising seven special needs children alone? Like, can that single mother complain? Now you go. The logic is an endless cycle of ridiculousness that you cannot live your life and Fezzik complains all the time. It's just ludicrous. 

01:41:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's just such a it is an insane tweet. 

01:41:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I guess all like yeah, there's just a better way to say it like Like just perspective. Perspective helps you think you're having a shitty day or a shitty moment because it's from a sports game. It's easy to find perspective in the world. You just turn on the TV for a minute. 

01:41:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sure, when I lose $25K on the Bucs because Baker Mayfield fumbles, I'm not going to stop and be like well, you know what? It could be worse. I could be having to raise kids that like in the moment, that's what matters to you. Yeah, of course I had listen, I had a very people are self-interested. 

01:42:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I had a very scary real life situation occur, like just after halftime of the Charger game and I was somewhere during the second half of that game that I never thought in a million years I I would be and like like I don't like to steve's point, like sure that gives me perspective on like something I uh, like I love the chargers, but when something like real is happening they seemingly didn't matter as as much, which just feels even weird for me to say. But that's how perspective can get you quickly on a lot of things, of course. 

01:42:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Of course, and obviously people know that sport isn't the most important thing. 

01:42:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Who's he talking? 

01:42:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
to, but to say for Fez to yell at people, saying what you care about is not a big deal because there's a single mother working two jobs. To me it just comes off as like so yeah, it's just lunacy. 

01:43:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know when you're playing like. 

01:43:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Why do you care? 

01:43:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
playing, madden, growing up and and all the players have. They have attributes, right, it's like this is their agility rating and endurance and whatever. You know, if there was professional, better or better attributes and there was like intelligence, creativity, self-awareness, for physic would be a zero, it would. There wouldn't be a one out of a hundred, it would be a zero. How you go from tweeting exactly what Jacob said just rants about Starbucks prices over the course of a month to you can't care about whether or not your team wins or loses in football is actually insane lack of self-awareness. 

01:43:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Maybe so, but I'm a big fan of the Twitter account, and maybe it's because of the lack of self-awareness. Maybe so, but I'm a big fan of the Twitter account and maybe it's because of the lack of self-awareness. Maybe makes the Twitter account more endearing. I don't know. Possibly, endearing is probably the wrong word, but just one that, yeah, we all get different reactions to different people and their tweets. 

01:44:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know for you you see something like this from Fezzik Kirk, and you're like you, stu. I laugh. 

01:44:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Oh, I still. 

01:44:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm in the same boat of Jeff, where I find it entertaining, gives us something to talk about, but in the pond reflection of this one it is nuts, I mean within days of Steve really should have a sub stack, yeah. 

01:44:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And all of like the tweets or like the long the text. 

01:44:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you know what. Just put his thoughts into like yeah, a sub stack, it's like a memoir almost. I would subscribe. 

01:44:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'd subscribe. I know you wouldn't, but I don't know, I'm honestly. 

01:44:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Doesn't mean. 

01:44:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'd have to read it every day. Yeah, put out like just All right the ramblings of Steve. Again, I'm very fascinated by him. I enjoy him. 

01:44:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Bo L Wagner. Bo knows as he's known on Twitter tweets out a screenshot of it. Looks like his wallet on a desk with some sort of papers and he says POV, paying off your mortgage at 44 because you are one of the best in the world wagering on sports. He then follows this up with an actual image of his mortgage statement but it says if you think I'm all cap on this, proof, zoom in sports betting paid off my house in 2024. This is he is this is. He is. 

01:45:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He could win the weirdest character, bo yeah. 

01:45:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, he could, he could. It's like On Mayo's show every year you have like most insane person. And it's always you and Cuss that are the finalists. He would definitely be in the weirdest Twitter personalities. He would be in there every single time. 

01:45:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's like the scrawny guy from a great movie road trip where they're going to like give blood or sperm and they've got to like disclose recent activity. He's like I had sex with a girl twice. Like I don't understand. Like he lets you know when he fucks his wife. He lets you know that he paid off his mortgage. These aren't like listen, that's awesome. Anyone who's paying off their mortgage, living in a house that they fully own, that the bank doesn't own on them. Congratulations, good for you. Like that's something that you should celebrate with your wife. You pop champagne, you have a nice dinner, it's something lovely. But like he shares these things as if, like people with a paid off mortgage aren't totally uncommon Guys who have sex with their wife. These aren't like uncommon things. And his desire to like I don't know need to share some things is weird to me. 

01:46:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, it's self-promotion. 

01:46:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He's saying he's such a good sports bettor that he can pay off some mortgage. 

01:46:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
The only thing I've got here is like this very obviously so his lawyer career. Yeah, what does that mean? Like how are you a bad lawyer betting? 

01:46:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
if he was a lawyer, and a good one, he. It's good to be a good lawyer, a good one, and make money from sports betting, but if you're a successful lawyer, I don't think you needed the sports betting to pay off the house, especially considering he charges people for picks as well. 

01:47:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For his Discord or whatever. Yeah, it is the weirdest self-promotion I've seen. Like a lot of weird self-promotion. I mean, logically it makes sense. You want to prove to people like, oh, I've paid off my. But first and foremost I don't mean to say this in a condescending or demeaning way. We'll come across that way because it's just going to um, if you paid off your mortgage by 44, it's really nice. I mean it's a good thing that everyone wants to pay off their mortgage. I hate to break it to you. You're not the sports bet, best sports, better in the world. If you've paid off your mortgage at the age of 44, I'm gonna say, like, if you don't own multiple houses already by that point you're not even in the 99th percentile. It's, it's nice, but it's not the flex that he thinks it is. To real sports bettors I will say Second of all, it's just absurd. It's just who does this. It's weird behavior. It is very weird behavior. Great tweet from ROI guy Men will do anything besides provide proof that they're a winning sportsman. Right, it's true. 

01:48:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
True, because it would be very easy to prove it. Yes and no, I mean because he'll post images If you sell your picks. It should be like a very like there's a transaction record of all your 100. That's kind of I don't. 

01:48:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I listen, I'm not in the, I'm not in the bow nose discord. I don't know what he. I would venture a guess that he's not keeping track of all the picks that he gives out. I would venture a guess that all the big wins you see on twitter are just the big wins and not. You're not seeing losses. You don't see losses on his account. I would also tell you, just based off of the fact that you see screenshots of where he's betting at and the amounts he's betting, they're not letting people bet those amounts that are winning. 

01:48:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
One thing like, let's say, playing forensic detective sometimes, no, I'm just on the Internet, so I see the tweets In the same way, you know, at Thanksgiving I see George is playing pickleball at Riviera Country Club. God bless Riviera, all the people in LA, as you mentioned. You know, I'm like whoa, this is like just a layer to this puzzle. Yeah, george has a family member who's like members at Riviera. Yeah, I see Bo Wagner like posting pictures he's at what I believe is in an NBA suite with Michael Rubin. Yeah, okay, like, okay, like that is. 

01:49:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
How do you think that happens, Jeff? 

01:49:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Either. Either. I mean I assume he did not provide like legal services for Rubin, so I assume that he bets a lot at fanatics, which doesn't even seem possible. But for Bo it's possible. That is my guess. But I don't have more puzzle pieces. I know he's successful. I don't think it's his like entrepreneurship or his legal prowess that has gotten him onto Ruben's radar. But maybe they're old friends. I doubt it. 

01:50:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know the exact reasons. I think that your educated guess is a good one. All right, how? 

01:50:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
much money do you have to lose for a photo op with Ruben? Then? 

01:50:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I see the amounts he's betting. I don't think those are doctored tickets. It could be. I have no idea, but he's. 

01:50:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Are any of your friends able to get down like that at Fanatics? 

01:50:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, but I will say I have known people who are winning, bettors who've gotten into VIP programs. Oh, of course. 

01:50:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Not everyone in the VIP program is a losing bettor Sometimes they're incorrectly diagnosed, and sometimes intentionally incorrectly diagnosed. Your job as a bettor is kind of lead the sports book off of your sense this is not one time I was invited to an old sponsor of ours vip event with uh from our boy, hainzer oh yeah, oh yeah, right so you never know who can get into those vip programs it's true. 

01:51:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um, alex monahan tweeted out we all agree on penn state money line, right, this was penn state against notre dame. He posts a ticket, uh, betting penn state on the money line uh, for five thousand dollars. That was matched by someone else. Follow this up by chris dirkis. Uh, who did appear on circles off, if you ever want to check out that episode, I had a really good conversation with chris several months ago at fluff. No lied. On twitter he posts a uh, a meme, so to speak, of thanks for the dollars cuck with a middle finger, and then posts his ticket at novig of notre dame money line where, uh, I mean, that's a big bet 48 780 bucks there. Uh, so opposite side of mon, and he kind of rubbed it in and it's really weird. It's a funny tweet, like let's call it a it's a little bit of. 

01:51:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I like the use of what's her name Caroline. Yeah, I like the use of like Caroline telling off people. 

01:52:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's a funny meme. I'm a big fan when people post what they are betting like in the amounts. So yeah, that's a little bit of a past post, but I respect it. I like chris, he didn't invite me to his wedding. I'm still pissed about that, but this is a good move and really funny. I would say that I I. 

01:52:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's definitely better if you could get that out there before the game starts in its final, it's a better look for you. It's still a great look because you bet a lot of money on the game and you won. 

01:52:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But also I don't see this as like the. I mean, I guess it has all the same layers, so it's just like a more creative way. I don't know. I don't feel like the past posting. 

01:52:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Is that big here? Yeah, yeah, like. 

01:52:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I feel like he, like you know, chris is like he bets fucking huge, yeah. So it's not like a secret, I mean, unless you're new or you've never followed or seen him before. Like whoa, that's a lot. You guys are familiar with them. You're like always amazed but not surprised. I think it's seeing some of the tickets, um so, he's just like on brand. 

01:53:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like he also won. 

01:53:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He was one of the circus survivors winners this year, yeah yeah, I, and like I assume him and monahan like they're not enemies or maybe they are? 

01:53:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
no, I don't think so. I actually think he kind of likes mona. I don't, I don't want to, but if someone was your, enemy. 

01:53:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I wouldn like your internet enemy. I actually like you can call it past posting, but they were like flexing a play and then I hit it for like 10x, 20x your bet. I'd be like fuck. 

01:53:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So the beauty of exchanges, right, is that this kind of social stuff can happen when you know let's say, me and you disagree on a game, jeff, where we're gonna go bet it at our respective sports books, and we might disagree and whatever I might win, I'll post the ticket. But like you're not involved in that in any way, this is literally now someone putting a lot of money that five thousand dollar wager which monahan put down. It's a lot of money. It's for for of people, that is a large amount of money, so he's putting that down. That's a big bet for someone to match on the other side and then talk shit to him on Twitter afterwards. That's the beauty of the exchange model is you actually have this peer-to-peer head-to-head. I think this is going to be like the norm in a few years if the sweepstakes models work and the exchanges keep growing. You know how much I'd love to bury someone if I know that they're on the other side of a game and I can bet against them afterwards and then rub it in their face afterwards. 

01:54:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You and Farley, next time you guys run across. 

01:54:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I like Novik, I can't post my positions beforehand. 

01:54:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Novik has really grown on me, both in their social people. Even though I feel like I've been miscast. They're social people, even though I feel like I've been miscast, like I'm in this group of like betters when I'm just more like the guy in the crowd eating the popcorn. But I'm happy to be included, but I like them. 

01:54:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Nothing against the brand. I think the social account is very hit or miss. That's social, I know, but it's doing the job that they want it to do. What do you? 

01:55:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
want Like okay, if I was hiring someone to run social, I'd want the hit or miss. You want them to generate, like some like mainline thing that no one like who gives a shit. I'd rather you strike out a bunch and then give me some Adam Dunn action Moonshots. So here's an example of I mean like um, we talked about it on the show like what table will you sit at right? 

01:55:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
type of thing that to me. And then they did a tears one. They did I was in the dead little fucking bottom. I don't care what tears I like, I don't give a shit, I like it, but it's like it's. I guess this is intentional in a way. It's it's missing, mixing people from one side of gambling twitter with the other. Good, but it doesn't really make like. I'm not going to interact with that because I don't even know who the fuck you're right people are. 

01:55:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You're right. I actually saw the girl in that was at my table at lunch had a tweet not understanding why books were posting like hypothetical playoff matchups. Yes, I'm like, wow, we're not gonna have fun at the table anymore, but that's okay, that's fine. On the other side I I refer to like the ecosystem a lot and even though, like people who are like really sharp bettors, they don't consider themselves in like the same, yeah, like planet as like the squares or all or the buckets or any of that. I love that. Novig is like no, I'm taking like the model projection guys and mixing them like the bookets and like boom and like let's throw them in a pot together and see that. And maybe I mean like collabs isn't the right word, but who knows? 

01:56:41
maybe there will be some novig invited me on, uh, on one of those um, on what on like a twitter space? A twitter space, yeah. Do you know why, though? Because they had mathis on last week and I I sent a comment in reply, like having mathis on audio only big mistake, agree like. 

01:57:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That didn't make a lot of sense to me that's like. 

01:57:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's like parking parking your Lamborghini in the ghetto. Like I don't understand. Like Mathis, audio only. Who the fuck's You're going to One of their misses. Like you don't utilize Mathis as chief betting officer at. Novi Chief winning officer Chief winning officer, but not audio only. I know we don't win by audio, only mathis. There are no winners in an audio, only mathis world. 

01:57:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I agree no one's doing it in for that yeah to be real here, that's all that's all. 

01:57:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And then that led them to invite me, and maybe, you never know, maybe I'll show up a little bit of a thought-provoking discussion to end here. 

01:57:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I saw this from the alt burner account. He says fuck it. I'll say it, the quote unquote sports betting is dead. Crowd are flat out wrong. The amount of mouth-breathing morons in this space that are still churning a profit, myself included, is unsustainable. Uh, the shipper ship. The justice says the north american market right now is the second best time and place to be alive as a sports better right after being alive in North America four years ago. 

01:58:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Four years ago was great. 

01:58:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I made some mistakes four years ago. I went a little too hard too early, you lost things quickly. I made mistakes. I would like to reset. Press the reset button. 

01:58:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But you didn't yeah. 

01:58:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Is that like when legalization. Yeah, that's what he's saying Like right at legalization. 

01:58:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Also from a content perspective, like the amount of, if you like, thought you were doing content and you weren't getting like paid four years ago to do content. Yeah, it's probably a sign you should retire from content, because the amount of money that was just like flying around to anyone talking sports it's true, betting with a microphone was crazy. 

01:58:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean we were doing it at the hammer, we were paying all sorts of money in the early going it happened. 

01:58:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It was yeah, but you're just part. 

01:58:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Everyone was everyone, everyone was um is is. 

01:59:03 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If there is a sports betting is dead crowd if there is a sports betting is dead crowd, I don't see it like yeah, I, that's what I was thinking as well. Like I agree mostly with this tweet. I would say that the most noticeable thing for me and I think I've said this on here before is that the real low-hanging fruit edge shooting stuff yeah, mostly gone. Like there are a lot of things that kind of were super obvious that are now gone, like teasers, good example I think week 18 and stuff a think week 18 into your mouth there. 

01:59:31
Yeah, I'm coughing, I'm coughing up a storm up a storm here, um, but I yeah, I agree. I think. I think you see how many people are still using odds jam and have odds jam in their caption, like there's still so many ways. 

01:59:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
My thoughts to this would be like just watch the show we just did like an hour. There's dude out here saying clv doesn't matter. Yeah, it's true, like so. There's the other side. How could it be dead? There's still enough people in the ecosystem betting into the markets that ignore everything you deem valuable. How does that not? They might be harder to find, yeah, and you gotta look harder, but there's more sites and more places to try to find it. So, yeah, I I can't imagine it's dead as long as we're going to start shows with the clv is a myth. 

02:00:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And then people going on tweet storms, telling model projection guys that they're like at they're they're doing when he's referring to sports betting is dead, though I think what he's saying is that there are people who think that, like, the time to earn has passed, right, it's it's in the past, and I get that perspective because in the last couple years, there is a breed of um, let's just say, the market has pushed towards top down. Yeah, more so than like. There are more people betting top down now than ever in history. This is people who are just using the sharp sports books for different services. 

02:01:02
There's more than that and you know what inevitably happens. You know what happens when you use odds jam your accounts get burned because there's so many people who are betting the same stuff in real time as you that you lose. And what? I get one message, one dm on twitter, more than anything by a mile, and it's rob. I'm losing all my accounts. What can I do? And the immediate response is okay, what are you betting? And it's all top-down bettors. And that's not saying it's not a viable way to bet. You just have to be really smart about it and you have to put in work to convince the sportsbook that you're not going to lose, and too many people are not doing that. 

02:01:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But isn't the sportsbook just getting way smarter? Honestly not as much as you think, even though, like isn't there like ai to like they can like tell when you're trying to trick them with your korean baseball shit. 

02:01:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know. I I think at some point maybe there will be. I don't think we're that sophisticated because at this point I I shipper ironically used to work for points bet back in the day and was known to limit people really quickly. They, they just didn't care at that point how many people are limited at these sports books. That shouldn't even be limited. 

02:02:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm limited at points bet and I didn't even get a set. I got like 10 good points on a Tom Kim outright. Yeah, he didn't ask me how much money I lost on Tom Kim last summer To your point. 

02:02:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think there's this huge level of sophistication. I just think that there's like, well, maybe the sky is sharp, we're not going to take our chances, type of situation. 

02:02:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Because I bet on the open. I like a number, but I'm not. 

02:02:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think the fact that there are so many top-down bettors just clearly shows that there's a lot of ways to make money doing this, and also I like there being a lot of top down bettors because I want that to be what draft kings and fan duel are focused on shutting down right and being it being good for us originators. 

02:02:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I completely agree with you. So I mean I, I would agree. I I think that people are starting to hit a breaking point, or there's a lot of people that are in the space like it's so much harder, that's not worth the effort yeah, like I, I don't want to like multi-account or get other accounts somewhere else. 

02:03:10
Like there's people who are hitting the end of the road for them. I made really good money, made a couple hundred thousand bucks for a few years and now it's. It's a portion of that Cause I don't have the accounts to bet into and is what I constitute as, like the sports betting is dead crowd, but there are really creative ways to win. There's also like if you were originating a market instead of being a top down better, you probably could last a while longer going that route, especially if it's a major market. So I mean the real, I mean the truth is we've had we have more sports books than ever that are in the marketplace right now and that should be a great, great time for sports bettors. It shouldn't kill it. 

02:03:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, you would think I remember I was so excited for, like, the amount of competition in the marketplace. Yeah, like I'd be, like there's so much competition, like I can't wait. Remember, like the first year, like the four years ago, the first Masters. It's like I can't wait. Remember, like the first year, like the four years ago, the first masters. It's like I can't wait to be so many books. They're going to be like fighting. It's going to be like fighting to like give me the, the best numbers. I don't know. 

02:04:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, no, it's not really like that, yeah no, I'm an idiot. 

02:04:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

02:04:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
We'll look. Sports betting could be dead five years from now. It might be consolidation to like I'm gonna tell you this right now, I don't even think it's a hot take and I'm not gonna go on a rant but in our lifetime we will see someone like of of the lebron james elk, no fault of his own, yeah, dragged. Dragged in front of congress, a congressional hearing, to talk about his role in like sports betting commercials. Yeah, he's not going to be like under fire. It won't be his fault. But like a lot of these high-end celebrities, yeah, who, who have profited and made money from like the promotion and others, people will be far more guilty, like the people behind the scenes. They will be dragged in front of, in front of government. Yeah, to have to answer for things that happened in this time frame. I believe that I could see that I could see that. 

02:05:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Anyways, we're going to leave it on that as a reminder. If you made it all the way to the end here, I'm sure you enjoyed the show you want to be watching to the end. Smash that like button down below. If you're new here and this is the first time you watch, make sure you hit that subscribe button here on Circles Offset notifications and you'll get notified every time we drop a new episode. And, of course, your comments are always welcome. I read them all every single week. Whether it's positive, negative doesn't matter. Feedback is appreciated. If you have any opinions on these topics, post them down below. And, of course, on Twitter hashtag Circle Back. We review that hashtag every single week to determine the rundown for this week's show. Rob Pizzola, kirk Evans, jeff Feinberg, jacob Grummanio. We'll see you next time. Peace out. 

 

All Sportsbooks

Current LocationVirginia

Recent Stories

Loading recent stories




Betstamp FAQ's

How does Betstamp work?
Betstamp is a sports betting tool designed to help bettors increase their profits and manage their process. Betstamp provides real-time bet tracking, bet analysis, odds comparison, and the ability to follow your friends or favourite handicappers!
Can I leverage Betstamp as an app to track bets or a bet tracker?
You can easily track your bets on Betstamp by selecting the bet and entering in an amount, just as if you were on an actual sportsbook! You can then use the analysis tool to figure out exactly what types of bets you’re making/losing money on so that you can maximize future profits.
Can Betstamp help me track Closing Line Value (CLV) when betting?
Betstamp will track CLV for every single main market bet that you track within the app against the odds of the sportsbook you tracked the bet at, as well as the sportsbook that had the best odds when the line closed. You can learn more about Closing Line Value and what it is by clicking HERE
Is Betstamp a Live Odds App?
Betstamp provides the ability to compare live odds for every league that is supported on the site, which includes: NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, UFC, Bellator, ATP, WTA, WNBA, CFL, NCAAF, NCAAB, PGA, LIV, SERA, BUND, MLS, UCL, EPL, LIG1, & LIGA.
See More FAQs

For more specific questions, email us at [email protected]

Contact Us