00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions. 

00:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's Circle Back, episode number 18, right here on the Circles Off YouTube channel, powered by the Hammer Bedding Network and presented by Underdog. Now you'll notice I'm in the Circles Off studio. We don't typically record in here. We were about to go live. There was a power outage in the room we typically record from, so we're flipping it around. We're recording in here today For those who are watching instead of listening. 

01:12
You're not going to see the rundown on the screen on the side. Per usual, we are going to talk about all my Twitter beefs from the past week. Those will come later on in the show and we do timestamp the show as well. So if you want to see the full rundown, you can just go through the timestamps as well. We will get to all of the topics Before we do. 

01:30
Had a bunch of people reach out to me. Thank you very much for signing up for Underdog, by the way, our show sponsor here. But a lot of people reached out after the Super Bowl. They said, hey, I tried it, interesting, entertaining, engaging. Thank you very much for checking it out. 

01:50
For those who haven't, it's not too late. We still got basketball season going on. March Madness is coming up. Hockey season Baseball is starting soon as well. So if you haven't checked out Underdog yet, it's a very different type of betting game and you know you're just going higher, lower on certain players. It's very easy to use, very easy to navigate. Great deposit bonuses as well, so check them out. You can use code CIRCLES when you sign up or just click that link down in the description below. That's really easy as well. But if you got a little bit of boredom now that football is over, you can go to other stuff, play games on other stuff, support underdog sports. Myself I got Kirk Evans over here to my right, jeff Feinberg sitting across from me. One more thing before we get into the show. Today we're launching something new here at the Hammer. It's actually being called Kirk's Hammer. I think that was just put in place by like a developer, as like, I don't even know the origin story of this. 

02:43 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, kirk's hammer was just the first thing I thought of. Okay, so what you thought I thought of it, I'm taking credit. Kirk's hammer weekly newsletter coming out, um, just mostly talking about betting, betting stories that have happened to me personally and kind of things that I find interesting that are going on. The first newsletter will be about pricing lebron's 10 plus points Very relevant. A lot of talk of it in the spaces, so I took that one on. 

03:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right. So we got a link in the description as well. If you want to check out Kirk's hammer for free, link is in the description down below. But a lot of people always messaging like who is this Kirk Evans guy? Why is he talking shit about these people? Kirk is a really good bettor. We've interviewed him here on Circles Off before. He's been part of many episodes in the past before starting with us for Circle Back. You'll get a lot of good insights out of the newsletter. So hit that link in the description below. 

03:37
Subscribe for Kirk's Hammer Doesn't cost you anything. It's going to be in your inbox weekly. Check it out. I'm sure you'll learn something from that. Alright, boys, let's get into it. Let's do it. Super Bowl. We're two days removed now when this is coming out and I'm not going to give like a full Super Bowl recap, the X's and O's and you know like Vic Fangio never sent the Blitz or whatever, but it's kind of like a pretty big letdown game, I think, just from like a neutral point of view Unless you're such a big Chiefs hater nowadays, jeff, maybe like yourself, that you were just in the. You're shaking your head like you're not the biggest Chargers fan in the world? 

04:15
Yeah, but. 

04:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I respect the Chiefs when they win, but when they lose, like I can enjoy that. I had a lot on the Eagles. You know, jalen hurts everything, like I told you last week, and so it all came up me. If there was room, I'd flap my peacock feathers right now, because last night was spectacular. The Chiefs fans they, I mean think about what the last three years have been Like, even since Taylor Swift started dating the guy yeah, like she hadn't even seen them lose anything like that ever. True, you, taylor Swift, started dating the guy. Yeah, like she hadn't even seen them lose anything like that ever. You know. So Chiefs fans should still be standing and applauding, but simultaneously, they deserved to watch every second of that game, like every moment of that game they deserved. That is how I feel. Two things can be true. What I just said and I'm a loser Chargers fan Like that doesn't mean one isn't fan. Like that doesn't mean one isn't true. Like that doesn't mean just because I'm a loser Chargers fan, the first part isn't true. 

05:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're not mutually exclusive, basically, yeah. 

05:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So that's all I had. A great time. I get if the game's boring, but there's 100 props to keep you entertained all night. 

05:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, that's true. 

05:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it was a betting game where, well, Well, I mean I honestly root for the prop I give out on the Forward Progress Super Bowl prop extravaganza every year. It's the one I root for the hardest because it's like a big public one that I gave out and I had first position to score a touchdown as wide receiver. So Dotson, going in there, I'm like fist pumping at my party and they're like, god, you win a bunch of money. I'm like, well, I won, but like not a ton. 

05:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Or it's just I gave this out and then I watched the replay and I'm like, oh, credit to you for that stream. It was five hours. You clearly weren't feeling well, at moments it seemed like you were powering through, but I watched a lot of it, and by a lot of it I probably mean the whole thing at least was on and there was like a clear delineation, I think some point in my turn where, like you went from like not feeling well to feeling horrible, and maybe it's because, like my, the bag of milk made you dizzy. But my pick, like you literally like got paler and look greener and at my first instinct was like rob hates my pick. I like I even said that to you. I'm like what's wrong? You're like I don't even know what you just said. And then by the time the next you were done with whoever was on after me, like you were like gone. So I didn't think and my pick won. But at first I thought like my pick made you like go pale, yeah. 

06:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like, listen, I don't want to do, like the whole woe is me thing, whole woe is me thing. People do five hour shows all the time. But when doing a five hour show, when you're legitimately like battling through big time sickness, you just hit a point where you're like you're it's a mental game, like you're talking to yourself and you're like how you can do it. 

06:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You can do but then you get to a point where you're like you can't do it like this is but a real five hour show, like a radio, like a classic mornings do they have been like 20 minutes of commercials an hour that you could have like tried to recalibrate yourself by the way, jason's not here today. 

07:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I got we'll get back in the soup. This is super bowl adjacent, okay, but this guy he he was all week was like moretto pizzola you gotta let me give one of the picks. We're giving 30 picks. You gotta let you. Got to, let me give one of the picks. We're giving 30 picks. You got to let me be the guy that gives one of the picks. Okay, we finished 15 and 15. I believe we lost, I want to say 0.15 units or 4.5 units. We lost relatively a small amount, okay, which fine, I'm okay. I'm transparent. I talk about it at the top of the show. You don't have to tail every pick. You do whatever the hell you want to do. It's your money, you bet. But this guy all week is like I got to give a pick, I got to give a pick. You know what he comes out with. He picks KC Moneyline. He didn't even give a prop. The most efficient at the time. Kc Moneyline if it ain't broke, don't fix it. He doesn't even give a rationale for anything. 

08:09
What an absolute embarrassment. That was by. 

08:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Jason, it's not happening again and it would have been a winning day for not that pick and that line steamed against him a ton pregame. 

08:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was just horrendous A ton. I mean listen, I want to blame it for it being a losing. Lots of people gave 15 people gave losing picks, including myself. Not us, not you guys. 

08:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I was 0-3 going into the day. So I was desperate and, like Rob, like it was like, even though the same money I had on other bets, I needed that bet, I needed it. It was Hurts over yards, long rush and he's the man. 

08:43 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He was the man. The bet I gave out was by far my biggest bet of the day as well, so that I was sweating it hard for for me you were getting roasted from because you gave a barkley no touchdown. 

08:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I got. 

08:53 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I got killed they said worst, worst bet ever, given. That was the entire stream casey money. 

09:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That is inexcusable. At least find a prop like that people are interested in especially in the context of like, begging to join the prop show. 

09:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, without like, if you're like jason, come on, we need you. Okay, I guess you have to accept what he gives, but when he is like, when he is like sending you sweet nothings all week, that you need to include him, and then you include him. 

09:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But I consume a lot of content during Super Bowl week as well. I, during football season, I consume a ton and I might. I might consume content from, like, maybe an outlet that I don't respect or a person that I know is not a winning better, but they might actually throw something out there and I'll be like you know what. That's a great bet and and that happened many times on our stream like Captain jack came on really early and he gave out the um time of possession. 

09:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yes, I'm like, oh, this is a great handicap. I never even looked at crush right and and you get that. 

09:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But like nobody is gonna tune in and watch jason give out chief's money line and be like oh yeah, you know what? That's a great argument for I'm gonna go and bet Like it defeated the purpose. 

10:05 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Totally Inexcusable pick to give. 

10:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Is it more inexcusable than buying a half point and he was on the total he won. 

10:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He won, crushed, crushed it. It was a mile over. 

10:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I mean if he didn't buy that half point. I mean, I think it would have been tight, but thankfully he did. Thankfully he did. 

10:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
His look on that show, my jaw hit the ground, just if you don't know, we're referring to Matt Zilbert. 

10:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think it was his first public video appearance giving a pick. I knew it would break the internet, which is why I wanted to have him on and I didn't want to like. 

10:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I didn't understand that they had such good Wi-Fi in the tunnels of Gaza. Oh God, jeff, I've never seen. Have you ever heard of a playoff beard? Like? What do you mean? Like for your favorite team? You're on the team. No, like I'm running. Good, it is, you know, I'm going to defend him right now, listen I. 

11:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's been many times where I haven't shaved because I've been running good. 

11:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'll tell you that right now. There have been times where my wife is like. 

11:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You look disgusting. I could see these gray hairs in your beard. You look like a homeless person. I'm like Diana we have had such a good month. If I shave this, it's over. 

11:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I didn't even notice the beard. I couldn't get past the I don't even know faux haw hawk would you call it. And then, why were his glasses so low? Like his glasses were so low that it seemed like he was looking at the top. 

11:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Of that I gotta say overall, though, he gets a win from me. A just proving he's real and not just his avis, not just like a picture from a, like that's in a picture frame before you put your own picture in it. Yes, yeah, I didn't know if this is uh, actual identity, like and his, so he gets the win. He won his prop and, almost in just revealing himself, I give him a win I think he might have been sitting on the floor. 

11:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Did you guys notice that? I don't know. I look back on it and it's really hard to tell that really strange set. 

12:03 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It was a. It was a weird setup because he's really low to tell that cop really strange set. 

12:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was a. It was a different, a weird setup because he's really low, like look at where the light switch was relative to where he was. He was below the light switch. There was no backing on a chair. It was unusual. But you know what credit where it's due? Guy won his bet what's this? Now documented 11 and 2 on super bowl totals last 13 super bowls which means it's probably 11-3 last 14. 

12:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Where is that? 

12:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
documented. It's documented somewhere. Documented somewhere. 

12:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't think he's lying. Maybe he is. 

12:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think he's lying. He does not strike me as a liar. 

12:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It would be a great way to prove it is by documenting it Well that too, but like. Then we would know for sure. 

12:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He takes great pride in being this Super Bowl totals self-proclaimed Super Bowl totals king. 

12:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, well, I saw this back and forth, and I don't think he's lying on Twitter with him and Sharp Clark, where Sharp Clark was like you know, like we bet, like people who win, like they bet real money on there, and he was just like I'm paraphrasing here, by the way like I don't care about the money, I care about the accolades Clout. 

13:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He cares about the clout, which actually, now that you hear him say that it like fills a lot of empty gaps. Yes, in how he goes about going to other people who are like I don't need you bugging me, I just won, like you know, on this game. I put a fortune on it. I won it Like I'm proud, I don't need to prove anything to you. And he's like no, if you want internet clout, you better prove something to me. 

13:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But also he's saying he does it for the accolades, but like what accolades has, I don't know, but he's not. It's not like he's. But nobody. 

13:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Here's the thing that's funny, like the way that he's handled his account for all these years just jumping into like he's obviously searching his name on Twitter, he's jumping into conversations where he's not tagged, but like he has earned nobody's respect so he's not getting the accolades that he wants because of the way he handles himself. I will say I thought that was a way more normal interaction and converse, like than what I was expecting it to be because of his twitter persona. I'm like who is this guy gonna be so? 

14:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I've said about the twitter persona. There's people that I've like literally I've gone like longer few things without the internet where I'm like I would absolutely still have a beer with that person and and I'd always say the thing Zalbert is like. I don't want to be within 100 yards of that person. 

14:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

14:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
After the seeing it I'm like I can't. If I like saw him, I'd have a beer with it, like yeah. It's just like that. My other perception is kind of gone, like I've've lessened on that, like true disdain for the internet persona of the guy. 

14:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, I know where you're at. I know where you're at For Super Bowl for me. I forgot how much of a hectic, like anxiety-filled day the Super Bowl is for me, and this happens every year for me. On a personal level, jeff, your experience is probably very different than a personal level and I, jeff, your experience is probably very different than mine. This is not to like demean in any way, but like I'm out in the afternoon I got it's my sister-in-law's 40th birthday weekend. You know we're doing some family stuff on that day. 

15:18
And I get a call from some guy who's like hey, I got like this info that I need bet out immediately. And he's talking and I'm like this is a very compelling gate and this is coming from like someone who's like I'm like how much of a fill do you want? He's like all of it, like just fill as much as humanly possible using this information. So I'm in like this mad scramble mode, but at at the end of it he gets to I need you to bet as much as you can on the Anthem over. I'm like Anthem over. I'm like I know the rehearsal times for the Anthem. He's like yeah, yeah, those are, that's not. It's going to be two minutes and six seconds and like he's like you got 159, two minutes. 

15:59
I'm like, yeah, that's the rehearsal times. He's like, no, no, it's two minutes and six seconds. I'm like, here we go every year. He's like, oh, by the way, the gaily red color is going to be this as well. I'm like, well, that's not what I'm hearing, and this happens every friggin super bowl. It gets to like an hour before kickoff and I'm in mass panic of like is the information that I bet good, do I have to get off of this, this and that? And I and I gotta tell you the stress I feel- that doesn't sound fun, it's bad. 

16:28
How do we not have a universal time for? Why are there so many different house rules? Can we not, as an industry, just decide it's from the first word spoken to the last word spoken Like? That seems like to me it should be totally acceptable First word or to maybe like the end of the first. Brave, but like, simple as that. Why are some sites now judging based off of, like when the music kicks in or when the music? What is this? And, by the way, on the Super Bowl broadcast, I do love the flyover or whatever, but don't cut away from the guy while he's singing the final words of the anthem, like let's see when it actually stops rather than anyways. 

17:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's a flyover on a dome which is always weird yeah it's just optically like it does make no sense, it happens a lot, but it always gets 

17:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
me. 

17:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, in the stadium you don't know the flowers, I guess, right, yeah, but with those props, like I do think with legalization, there needs to be some sort of order. Like you're saying the halftime show. Similar to you, I got a message of what the songs are going to be. It was pretty out there and GNX was the first song on the set list. Draftkings tweets GNX as the first song on the set list, then grades GNX as a loss to squabble up, and then edits their own tweet GNX out of the set list and it's still graded as a loss. 

17:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, it's got a universal idiot happening to it. 

17:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Other sites have GNX graded as a win. There needs to be some sort of standard. 

18:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I feel like that happened the year before with Usher. It felt like the first beat was something and then it went right into something else. 

18:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There was some like quick, like five to seven second intro where he said lyrics from another song or something like that. I don't you know. My wife messages me. She's like did we win the anthem? I'm like I have no clue. I don't. She's like what do you mean? You have no clue. I'm like well, I timed it on my phone. It was the time that I received. I have no idea how this is going to be graded. 

18:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Where are you even able to get in on? 

18:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it. It's way lower than it used to be. 

18:36 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But even at way lower I have it. 

18:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jeff they $100? 

18:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, on one account, they will give you $100 for sure. That's a lot of like text messages to a lot of people $100, like. 

18:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The amount of dollars I had on the anthem this year was $7,800. 

18:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Across many, many different spots and I worked hard to get that and what's the most you can get in at one spot. 

19:04
It depends you can also parlay it with stuff cryptic, but this is like no, it's fair you could be cryptic on this as someone that provided me information that allowed me to like soup in the good old days. Yeah, super smash anthems. I'm forever in debt. I just like now. For me it's not even like the effort to do. It isn't even worth the bring home, at least on my end. And I know you work in a completely different world, but I got a lot of books I can't get it. 

19:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, PPH is still the spot, but then you give yourself. 

19:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Some of my PPHs don't even have it though they caught on. 

19:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I took them for too much over the years, and also you end up in situations where they're just free rolling themselves a lot of times anyways, because you'll win it, and then they'll just void the wager saying like known info or you know, anthem time released earlier anyways. 

19:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
but I wasn't trying to be, uh, I wasn't trying to no, no, no, it's totally fine. 

19:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're right, like I told the stories in my head, real work. 

20:02 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like after you got that in, you probably felt like that was a real fucking job. It's not me betting it, as much, but like I'm just saying, yeah, it does. 

20:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's real work. Yeah, it's real work. It's worth it. Yeah, no, of course, like you know, it's worth it. You explain what did your determination and posting the house like I don't care at that point, but it just seems so stupid for the novelty props, especially because so many people like to bet this shit, that there's not a standardized ruling across industry. Halftime shows stuff like that, like how is that not? 

20:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I? I actually had a scare on the halftime song, so I had over 10.5, and originally the spot I had the most with it, graded it as a loss and I was like I counted every song and there was 11. 

20:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
What the hell is going on? 

20:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
They did not count the first one because it wasn't technically a release song and then thankfully by the fourth quarter it got corrected. Yeah. 

21:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Thankfully, by the fourth quarter it got corrected. Yeah, but how can you say I don't know where you bet it to be fair, but I don't know how you could say that squabble up with the first song and there were 11 songs. 

21:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It makes no sense. Again, I don't know. It seemed like there was a lot of confusion there were 11 songs. I'm with you, yeah, but like I just squabble up, just simply wasn't the first song Is there like a house rule, like if it's not like a release song, does that not count, or what? 

21:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm dumb enough to think at the sites that you bet $100 or something on the anthem. I don't want to shout it out, but on something so close they'll just almost pay out both freaking sides. It's limited so much. 

21:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You would think that they might want to do that. 

21:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Instead, they do the opposite it's before the game A lot of these people will just re-roll it into something else. 

21:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, what did you guys think of the halftime show? I'm not like a. You guys know what I listen to. I listen to metal and progressive metal and stuff like that. This is not. 

21:58 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I know none of these songs so I don't an opinion on that. But opinions in my friend group from watching were extremely divided on this halftime show Interesting. I'm surprised divided. I felt like the people I was watching with it was pretty standard that it was not very good. But I truly believe this. I think I can know what the general perception of a halftime show will be with 99.9% certainty before it happens. A rapper to me is going to have a tough time in a halftime show because it's a performance, it's a show. Rappers have a harder time with that than a really elite dancer or really elite singer. To me, the dancers are typically the shows that people are like, wow, this is really good. A very good singer as well. To me, the dancers are typically the shows that people are like, wow, this is really good. Yes, a very good singer as well. A rapper who people don't really know the words to the song typically not going to be liked as much. 

22:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I liked it. I mean, I'm a Kendrick fan. I thought it was good. 

22:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I thought the Not Like Us portion of it was really really good. But in fairness, there's like who's ever gone to like a concert for an artist that they like, yes, and came back and be like, oh, that was fucking dreadful. 

23:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Exactly Everybody loves. 

23:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If it's an artist you like, it's really hard to make like an objective. 

23:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I've seen Kendrick live, so I like him. 

23:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For me, like what I, I thought it lacked the grandness of other halftime shows, like you mentioned, like Jay-Z did a halftime show, right, or was it Snoop Dogg? It was Snoop Dogg, right. 

23:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It was Dr Dre, dr Dre, my bad. 

23:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Apologies, kendrick, also featured. 

23:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, there were a lot of them. 

23:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That was like grand I felt With the setup, the stage setup, everything to do with that. It felt big and I couldn't really even look away. 

23:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This felt like a Cowboys Thanksgiving halftime as opposed to Super Bowl halftime. I don't have an opinion on the music. I take my own extended halftime. I need air, extra air, because I know the halftime is extra long. 

23:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're yelling all first half so hard with all those Eagles big plays. You needed the air. You needed the air Last thing and then we'll move on in one second. Just very selfishly. I do want to point this out because I'm thinking about this last night, right, and I don't know how I never thought about this before. For people who don't know, I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan. 

24:18
I don't like dynasties in sports. People talk about the greatness of things all the time. I prefer like a little bit more parody and not knowing who's going to win every single year and stuff like that. So I never liked the Patriots dynasty. 

24:31
People will always accuse me in the comments of this show of like standing for the Chiefs Rob's like this big Chiefs. I'm not a big Chiefs fan. I just think that it's like ridiculous that people think that everything that they've achieved has been like owed to the referees. I think that's an absurd take. But I got to tell you, man, it's getting really painful with these Super Bowls because I want to root against these dynasties. 

24:56
It always happens to be the fucking Eagles or the Giants in these big games and I cannot. The Patriots Giants Superls were were horrendous for me last night. Not only was it a shit game, but like I don't want either of when you're in a position where you like don't really want either of the teams to win, it kind of sucks the life out of the game a little bit, even before it starts. And I realized that in the very early going of that game yesterday, because the, the eagles, get the, the opi penalty and it's going to be. You know, I'm like here we go again, like it's going to be, the chiefs are getting all the support. You know that's going to be the discourse on twitter which, by the way, I will say objectively, it didn't matter. Chiefs were losing that game. They sucked, they were going to lose, but they did not get the benefit of the doubt from refereeing in that game. It definitely was Eagles shaded. 

25:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They gave the Eagles a make-up call in the next drive on the Goddard late hit. I don't want to say it changed the game, but it just who knows how long the game could have been like a 0-0 slog in that sense. But hey, I was happy with it. I don't know. I'm with you. I think most of America would have preferred to see a different color on top of the cake last night in terms of seeing the Lions or the Bills or just something totally different than we got. But hey, I don't know, it is what it is. And the thing with the Chiefs is I I never felt when they win the Super Bowl, at least before the season, that it's like theirs to lose. But every year you always feel like they're vulnerable and they're going to get got. And then the playoffs come and they're so dominant. 

26:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's true. Last night it was great to see them get got At some point, I'll be able to root for a team that's not an NFC East team in the Super Bowl. 

26:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I'm with you. Rob, I'm an unknown thing, but my nickname has nothing to do with it, but I am a Giants fan. Yeah, I know it sucks, I would have comfortably had the Chiefs win again over the Eagles. 

26:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's the problem. I don't care about the Commanders, I don't hate the Chiefs and I do hate the Patriots. So, Eagles-Patriots, I felt that for that Super Bowl that was the only time I've ever cheered for the Eagles was the Nick Foles Super Bowl, because I'm like I can't do this again. I cannot do the Patriots again. I reached the point where I'm like I cannot, I can't. 

27:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I think now they have two. I'd probably go back and say I could probably sit through another, patriots one, but at the time I probably felt the same. 

27:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, on the topic of Super Bowl, I noticed all week long there was these tweets that were coming from these big Las Vegas accounts. Las Vegas locally. You can stay on the strip tonight at the Horseshoe or Link for $23 plus fees Friday of Super Bowl weekend. Something is broken with screenshots that those were actually available. And then there was another Vegas account that tweeted something very similar Vital Vegas Casino execs across Las Vegas baffled and rattled by Super Bowl weekend falling off a cliff. Some are reporting losing days, multiple days this week, as our fellow kids say oof. I do say oof a lot, I mean. I mean, I don't want to call myself a kid nowadays, but what do you guys make of this? Because I have some theories on why there's been this fall off for, like the Vegas Super Bowl, I'm curious why you think that happens, jeff. 

28:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, I also saw some other tweets saying that there were like empty tables, like in main pits, yep on the blackjack tables and craps, I mean listen, it's obvious, like the obvious reason is that you don't need to go there to make your bets. 

28:33
You can make them from anywhere. And then there's a lot of like ancillary reasons. Um, like one silly reason I thought of or maybe not so silly is, I think, forever. There's like people went to the Vegas for Super Bowl out of maybe, a tradition, and this wouldn't be the only reason, but just a small thing. Last year the Super Bowl was in Vegas, so that probably led a lot of people who like to just be in Vegas at Super Bowl to be like you know what, we don't need to deal with that circus, with the game actually in town. Yeah, we're gonna do something else. And they realize, staying at home, going to a friend's house, throw a great party, actually you make the bets on your phone and actually no reason to fucking be there I'll go there for the hundred different reasons why I want to be in vegas over a calendar year, but super bowl not mandatory. 

29:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
How do people think that the it's going to be vegas of old when you can go on your phone, make bets, like it's just so much easier now and watching the super bowl at home is amazing? Yeah, it's the best. 

29:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You know what this is actually like, like people at the top of vegas who are like surprised that's like telling me the cable tv execs are surprised that like people are watching less cable tv, like everything naturally happening around us is pointing to this number getting smaller and smaller. And sure there'll be things that lead to like bigger jumps, but the trend has been clearly headed this way. 

29:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't know what it is Like. I had a friend invite me out to. He went, he watched at the win this year, which he does like every other year, and he's like out for the friday, uh, or the weekend and, you know, stay for the game, and I was like I'm not gonna do that, like I have, I have no interest in, and part of it's probably my age. I think maybe if I was in my 20s might be a different story. I'm I'm in my late 30s now, but I feel like there's also, just like this, an oversaturation with Vegas events now too. I think part of it was the Raiders moving to Las Vegas. You now have the stadium there. You could have WrestleMania there. Next, you have so many events over the course of the year where you could go to Vegas, for you now have the Formula One in Vegas every single year. 

30:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I go to Vegas every single year for Bet Bash and to me there's like this oversaturation of events now and it's the easy one to just if you've got a loose, it's like the first one that's going to get cut For me it's simple. 

30:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's like because I'm going to be with all my buddies. That's another part of it as well, and this is not to like to each their own. I don't mean this to come across in the way it's going to come across, but for some people this would be a very, very expensive trip. A Super Bowl weekend in Vegas, right Like I can't go with my buddies and have a great time because they're going to be up against it, just for like the hotel Usually not this year but for like the cost of that week alone or weekend alone. It's just different. 

31:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But now maybe it's a value play it could be now. 

31:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
After seeing this, it's like you know what this is? 

31:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
what's going to happen Maybe this is let's go do it cheaper, and I've never done Super Bowl in Vegas. I've never done Super Bowl play in Vegas. I don't know. People throw great. My bike throws an incredible party. I go to Vegas for other reasons. 

31:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't need to go for betting props, yeah I, I, I just I think the allure is kind of gone, which is sad in my for me, like a little bit. I have no connections to vegas, like I didn't grow up there, I don't live there, I don't even really bet there like other than it's just like one of the meccas of, of of gambling, right, but it is kind of sad that they can't even attract people to the mecca of gambling anymore for the biggest game of the year, and it does have to be looked into a little bit. 

32:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I would say I just think they kind of need to adjust what Vegas is, Kind of like you said, I don't think it's for necessarily those big events For me. I know I'd way rather go to Vegas for a random weekend than the Super Bowl weekend, Because to me the Super Bowl weekend is already so great. Why am I going to Vegas? 

32:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
But like. 

32:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You nailed it Like yesterday, my wife, I already like one o'clock signing out, going for like party started and she accepts it as part of life. Why would I burn my trip weekend when I get literally I'm signing off, I'm checking out. 

32:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're thinking man. That's the way to think about it. Yeah, I found it really interesting because I saw tons of these. We just highlighted two in the show this week and even my buddies who were there were telling me this week it's like it's kind of dead. 

33:11
People there were telling me this week it's like it's kind of dead people are saying the lineup to like the line for tickets to to bet was like one third of the line, the how long you would wait in the line to get your tickets made. Yeah, I will say too like there's an inherent risk that you get a game that you got this year as well, which makes it suck even more right, like I'll tell, I've had amazing vegas watch party experiences. My favorite one which I'll never forget I was there for playoffs one year. It was for a friend's bachelor party. He's a big steelers fan. It was steelers jags playoff game. Portals yeah, port, yeah, bortles, okay, I was in the sportsbook at the Cosmo. 

33:47
It's a small book but it was fucking jammed and it was amazing. It was split like 50-50, fans cheering. You got an amazing high-scoring game back and forth. There's almost nothing that beats that type of experience. When you get a great game and you're watching with a crowd like that, where the crowd is very split, it's one of the best experiences ever. But you get a game like KC Philly where pretty much everyone in the world knows the game is over in the second quarter. Not even the people who are always live betting Mahomes when they're down are even doing that. 

34:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They're like this is done, it was too far. 

34:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's just like there's no chance, like you get one of those games that's just miserable, like it just puts such a huge damper on your trip. You're going home, you're like, oh yeah, I was in Vegas for a Super Bowl that year, eight years ago or whatever. And it's like, which game was that? And you're like, oh, the one that was like eagles chief, like worst game ever type of game. Like you, you run that risk as well, which obviously you do with any live event, but that's not to say don't go, but, um, that's part of it. I'll tell you who didn't have a poor super bowl, though, like vegas did, at least from an attendance perspective. He had maybe the week of his life. George Riley, panagakis, grp wins Listen to, this week they named a prop bet after him on Caesars. He was able to bet his own prop, which was rostered. Defensive player wins, super Bowl MVP and Chiefs win by 13 to 18 points. 

35:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Sorry, before we go any further I have to comment. I left it in for a reason. The one on the left is the unedited post by GRP. So he knows enough about his phone to be able to open it and cross out his ticket ID but not enough to press the done button in the top right corner so that he hits a clean screenshot. This is one of the most boomer things I've ever seen. 

35:47 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, I didn't even realize that was your point. I thought you were saying he specifically didn't edit out the amount in his betting account. 

35:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He was trying to flex it. He did edit out the tickets you can see here, but he left. He could have pressed done and he would have had the clean screenshot. 

36:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
See, the funny thing is like GRP has really been doing, I think, all of these things, including a lot of these long-shot Super Bowl bets, in my opinion for fame, for clout Like he wants to be known. He loves when people talk about it and it happened. 

36:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, here's the thing, like why, according to Zalbert, george is kidding the amount of clout that he received, even in those losing bets. 

36:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I think Guy in the cornfields was the first to notice, because he's like you've got to be kidding me. Grp wins. This is actually a real bet at Caesars. But for Caesars to actually post that as a real by the marketing move, because if you post something about grp it's gonna get out there no matter what. 

36:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But I found that hilarious so he's got like a floor level, like hardcore base, that as long as you talk about him, there's like a minimal traction. 

36:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, if you were working in marketing and you're like, hey, listen, if we feature this guy in any way, like all we have to do is throw a random prop up here at horrible odds. By the way, you see what that prop bet was at 85-1? Unbelievable. And they're like he's going to talk about it and he's bet it himself. He bet it himself Then. Spinfluencer notes. Did I just read about GRP in an ESPN article. 

37:19
ESPN interviewed him about his bet on Sam Darnold to win the comeback player of the year. Panagakis was so confident in Darnold, he placed $1,000 worth of bets on him to win the award. He had a great week and I said, boy, this guy was a high draft pick, he's got a shot. The Vikings got talent at wide receiver. I'm not just throwing darts, I'm making picks for reasoning. I think he's a legitimate candidate. 

37:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm not just throwing darts. He had a great week. It's such a funny reason to brag about a great week won. It's such a funny reason to brag about a season long future. 

38:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, there's way more to his week, though. He won Josh Allen MVP he he obviously has the infamous loss from a year ago where joe flacco won comeback player of the year. He's watching. It coined one of the funniest sports betting memes of all time, with george looking at the camera and saying are you fucking kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me? I don't remember how much he said he lost on that. He's like I lost $8,100 on Joe Flacco, Are you fucking? 

38:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
kidding me. He had so many hedges on it too. Flacco was the only guy he didn't have Market cornered. Market cornered, yes, it was the market corner. He got his Josh. 

38:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Allen allen mvp. This year we were treated to a one minute video of him dancing in front of the tv screen. Uh, some sort of shuffle, uh I I don't really know what it was, but he was really happy about it. That was huge for him. He got agreement from rufus. Yeah, on one of his super bowl bets he had a 75 to 1 will a offensive player bet that we roasted on the show last week rufus comes in and says no grp onto something it was. 

39:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Will a player throw a? 

39:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
catch his own pass his own pass. 

39:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
yeah, yeah so the Prince decided to ride or die with the frog on that bet. So that is very impressive. 

39:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was all coming up, george, I did say I saw Rufus said, like I'm on Team GRP tweeted a picture, said he priced it, I think, at 66 to 1. I was exchanging texts with Rufus that night. I don't agree with the price. He did price it. There was a method to madness and he went through historical data. I think that he missed some stuff that was particular to each team that would have affected the pricing in some way. For example, the Eagles being a run-heavy team was one thing, the Chiefs playing at a slower pace, so less plays overall. I think all of that mattered, but ultimately he did take a shot at pricing him, got the agreement, so GRP gets the agreement from Rufus. Then, not only that, you know how live he had the Carson Wentz to take a snap in the game. 

40:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Oh my, I thought he had it. 

40:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I still cannot believe Carson Wentz didn't take a snap in the game. Oh my, I thought he had it. I still cannot believe Carson Wentz didn't take a snap in the game. There was a point on the sideline. I swear to God, I thought Mahomes said to Wentz I'm not going back in, I'm not my mom, I saw it. I'm not imagining this. This happened. And then he went back in on the next possession. I don't know, he threw a touchdown. He did throw a touchdown. 

40:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's probably because they started the ball at midfield. If the Eagles punted that to like the eight with the minute left, or whatever, maybe, but now that they're at midfield with like a minute, he's like no, I'm going to come throw a Super Bowl touchdown. 

40:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was an incredible week for this guy. 

41:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He nearly hit the all-time, like the whole backdoor stat line. 

41:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think he also had Cooper DeGene Super Bowl MVP. I could be wrong there, but that wouldn't surprise me. 

41:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He bet a lot of defensive players he bet. 

41:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
a lot of defensive players Took his pick six back. If he hits one of those he's. 

41:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He did win 500 bucks on the Super Bowl. For all the bets that he put, that were, in my opinion, incredibly negative EV he did win on the Super Bowl, which is kind of impressive yeah. 

41:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Once you're throwing so much away for like For clout. 

41:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, basically. 

41:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, he said, like I need to hit one. If I hit one of these, you guys can never make fun of me again, which is really such a great freaking line. 

41:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you think that was actually going to happen, though Obviously, it's not going to happen. It's going to be until the end of time. He hits a huge, long shot like final score, exact final score, and any single time somebody says something negative about him in the future, his response is going to be like well, I hate this bet. 

41:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think that's exactly what would happen. I always let Benson know, like it's no secret, George is a needle mover, George moves product. I said I swear to this. I said it to Jeff. I had a couple friends literally join Circus Survivor last year and, I quote, they wanted to be in the contest that George is in. End quote, and obviously they had a great time. We're going to do it again, Like they'll do it again, but their like germ of entry was GRP. 

42:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Moves product like germ of entry was grp yeah, and moves product. Clearly the market agrees that he's a needle mover because espn put him in his article and caesars put a random prop up called the grp pro. You know who? 

42:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
wrote the article uh, I, I don't know because you know, sometimes like traders are really busy on super bowl week, like I'd imagine purdom, who's like the head of ESPN's gambling content, was probably so busy Super Bowl week. Someone else must have like if he did write it I would be shocked. Someone else must have like just we'll get this guy, he's always talking about it, we'll get him in. And Purdom must have had like a heart attack when he saw George being quoted. 

43:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So the real issue I have with George right is that I actually quite like George, I find him entertaining, but once every three months he's going to say something that's going to happen to me, I'm going to be like ooh. 

43:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Teams, not numbers. Sure, no, no, no, not even that stuff. 

43:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The Kai Trump you know and then going on the spaces and him and Bles are talking about how the laws for underage I'm like I don't want to. 

43:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, george is not George Right. 

43:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And if he could clean up that side of things I don't even care. He obviously has a hyper fixation on certain people in the space as well that he thinks are pretenders. One is Chernoff Pamela Maldonado. He's always tweeting. He has like he's got his people. Oh, he also hates women. 

43:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's a part of it too, like sometimes it comes across as, Like you said, you know that by his Christmas gift to his mom. Like he's just not, no, I'm just like that just seems a matter of fact. I know enough of George Puzzle Pieces to know he yeah. 

44:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, like you know, I didn't have him on the Super Bowl stream this year, the prop stream Next year, two days. Well, there's a few things. For one, he's always going to show up on his phone and he's going to walk around and he's going to lose reception like four times during the 10-minute span. 

44:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You hate that. I would enjoy it very much, but I get why you would hate it. 

44:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I hate it so much. I like when you're hosting a show like that for five hours, you want to be in control, like you want as many things to go according to plan. I'll tell you, joey Toons was supposed to be like our third guest. Okay, he was on a fucking flight back home. How did this guy not account for that? He was going to be on a flight, so we're now having to push everyone up. I gotta get jason to make up. Like, doing that stuff on the fly, yeah, is really, really annoying. Then tunes I love tunes, don't get me wrong. Like we, I've interviewed him on circles off before. I've known him for a long time. I consider him a friend. We we chat pretty regularly, but he's like I'm not coming on without having like my one of my traders on with me. I'm like why we have it's one-on-one for the entire thing now we have to set up a three-year brought. 

45:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Anything like like trader is fine like it seems like a nice guy. 

45:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Good, he's got traders, but it's not like the trader added something that joey yeah, I don't know, I don't understand, but like I, I talk to his traders every day, like I have a signal, chat with them. We deal with each other. I I'm like you know, and I'm not dealing with this in real time moretto is, but, like I, I don't want the chaos. Yeah, and zalbert was like a calculated risk, but I knew he would take it seriously. Yeah, I knew he was going to show up and take it. So you think george doesn't take it seriously. He's too much of a he doesn't have anything. 

45:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He has a pc desktop like. What are we talking about? 

45:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
he showed one one time on the stream because he walked to his bed. I'm like george, why do you always do everything on your phone? And no, and he's like I have a computer. Do you want to see it? Before I could even say, he was already walking down to the basement losing reception. 

46:11
You know it's like. So he does have one, I just don't know. Anyways, long story short, congratulations, George, on the Super Bowl wins. It was a great week for you. I'm very happy for you. I don't people think I like I'm rooting against everyone in the space. I get that all. Oh, Rob's rooting. I like seeing success stories just as much as I like battling it out as well, so congratulations to George on that. 

46:34
Speaking of battling it out, we led with Twitter spaces for the last couple of weeks and now we're going to get into the Twitter spaces portion of the conversation. And it's actually really tough to segment this show because there's last week there's like spaces. Every night there's multiple spaces. Now I prefer to focus on the ones that Elf is running, because they're the largest in the space right now and because of let's just I'll call Elf. He's very good at getting the right people on nowadays and causing a stir. So I didn't know this was going to happen when Ariel Epstein tweeted this last week. But she tweeted why I bet on myself now and built Prop Queen Sports a thread. She said most people don't know I've been unemployed for a few months now. I'm not the type to post about it because I just put my head down and work harder. For years I worked in an industry built on contracts, meaning every few years I had to worry about whether I'd have a job. This thread then continues on and she introduces her new website and she got a lot of so I'm just going to speak this from my perspective. 

47:49
I thought the response to this was overwhelmingly positive. 

47:52
When I go through the comments, Like if I'm just ratioing it, I'd say 95% positive, Lots of people coming in that she has good relationships with, congratulating her on like this new endeavor in the space. There was negativity, as there is in every single Twitter one, and she decided she was going to record a video that was explaining why you know she did what she did and kind of peel back the curtain a little bit on what she did, called out some of the trolls and the haters in the video as well, and I think Elf saw this and he said it would be a great idea to get Ariel on to talk about this. Furthermore, she did tweet out a very viral video, which was the coin toss for the Super Bowl and presenting facts about the historical coin tosses of the super bowl, like, did you know and I'm paraphrasing here, you know, 52 of the super bowls in the past landed on heads or whatever? And um, this set people off more, I think. I think more than the actual this was selling. 

49:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This was the thing that caught fire yeah, spinfluencer said, this has to be a joke even this. 

49:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
She wasn't on elf's radar for starting a prop queen news site. It was this tweet, yeah, this video on the coin. Toss that sort of put her on the now you must defend yourself on an elf space okay, I, I don't. 

49:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I like, I don't know the motivations for it, but yes, this became very viral, which actually was the intention of the video. Listening to her speak about this on the spaces it actually was the intention to get a viral video out there. She explained that this video in particular. She's like listen, I was just giving out information, but I talked to other TikTokers. They were saying you got to have a hook in the beginning of the video, this and that. So she, her intention was to put out a viral video. It worked. But people saw this and said like, oh my god, you're giving advice on the super bowl coin toss. You got to be an idiot to do something like this and it and it blew up into wildfire. Um, so, by the way, someone else gave out a. I just threw this in here to throw shade Warren. 

50:06
Sharp also produced a flip of the coin. It wasn't. I don't see much of Warren Sharp stuff nowadays. I actually try to avoid at all costs, but in fairness, there were other people out there that did do this as well, that's insane. 

50:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Do you know how Warren Sharp did on the Super Bowl? Rob? 

50:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I do know how he did on the Super Bowl. I did not ask Jacob to tee me up on this. 

50:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Now it looks like I did Okay, but if someone didn't know and wanted to find out, would there be a way to see that? 

50:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Did Warren post it himself. 

50:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It is my understanding that he did not win any of the bets he released on Super Bowl. I cannot confirm or deny. Where's that tracked? I don't think it's tracked anywhere. Many people reached out to me privately on Twitter to let me know that all of his bets that he released lost. Anyways, we'll steer back towards Ariel. 

50:58
So I'll paint the picture for you guys, because the night that Ariel was on this spaces, I was near death. Death, okay, this is not an exaggeration. I was sitting on my shower floor with sitting on the, because I was too weak to stand. I'm not, I I don't know what hit me. I think I had a con, had a combo of norovirus and COVID at the same time. This is what I think. I've never felt as bad as I did Then, in this moment, when this Spaces was starting, I'm like I cannot speak on this. 

51:37
I cannot. I brought my Bluetooth speaker into the shower. I had the Spaces play. I'm just sitting, I'm stuffed. I'm like. I played this. I had the spaces play. I'm just sitting, I'm stuffed, I'm like. I'm like I can't. 

51:47
And so he introduces Ariel elf does. She gives her her whole spiel of like. Okay, she presents the facts. Here's why I started this. He gives her the floor to talk about it. You know, listen, there's a lot of startup costs that are involved with launching a site like this. I spent 5,000 to,000 to get it off the floor. I got a newsletter I'm paying $90 a month for, for email sends and stuff like that. She gives the entire context and then I'm expecting people to come in one by one and like, really go at her. 

52:22
Okay, and there was a lot of questions that I thought were going to be asked to her and I knew Spinfluencer was not going to be in the spaces that night Because he had said it that morning. And here's what already bothered me about this whole thing Okay, he made it very clear to Ariel that he was not going to be able to join that night because he had something to do. This is public. Put it out there. He said I'll see you saturday on the spaces. They flipped this to the night where he couldn't participate in it. So already I was elf, elf, elf. I was like okayf, does this? Elf, is he's not stupid? He puts his finger on the scale. 

53:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yes, well, he also knows that, ariel. What is the draw? 

53:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
not spin, fluency she's willing to talk today I've got to get her on, because tomorrow she could bail yes yes, let's just call it out for what it is we're talking both sides here why he did it. 

53:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I like elf okay, I'm probably gonna be in boston and meet up with him in like a few weeks as well. 

53:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's a good kid, but I think he's a smart and he's a bright kid, oh like he's knows what he's doing here. 

53:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think to get some of the people on the spaces and I'm just again, I'm, uh, speaking an opinion, not a fact. 

53:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think he's protecting them in some way and saying like, hey, you know what I got your protecting yes, but I don't think he's wearing much protection because he's probably out there getting a pregnancy test right now. The way some of these people have straight up fucked up like he lets them come in there and put it in, so he is probably like he might be pregnant. 

54:05
I didn't know we were going there he could be pregnant the way he's been taking it like open, like wanting to take it, yeah, from some of these people, like he could be pregnant with bo's baby yeah that's kind of just my point. Okay, and ariel could put on a strap on and he could take it like that, some of that images. 

54:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't want it. I don't want in my head, but I understand where you're going with the t-math from a week ago. 

54:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's just like a consistent trend. Yes, that being said, rob, I am not probably on your side as to where you're about to go, okay, so what will you just hear me out. 

54:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna the the example I could think of of how this entire event went down. Spoiler alert okay, if you haven't seen game of thrones yet, I'm gonna spoil some stuff in game of thrones, okay, I felt like Jon Snow in the scene where he gets murdered by the Night's Watch, where, like, ollie comes into his like you know, jon Snow's working at night, I don't know what the fuck he's doing by candlelight, but Ollie's like oh, like, they found your uncle Benjen, you know he's alive. And Jon's like are you sure it's Ben? That was Kanish messaging me like this space is starting, you gotta get it. Like it's like alerting me to something like okay, let's go, let's go. And then I get there and and I'm like where is? And I walk in and, just one by one, it's like all the people that I love are just like fucking stabbing. 

55:28
Like it started. It started with the floor opens for questions, okay, and kanish comes on. He tosses like a couple lob ball hey, ariel, you know big fan like this and that and I toss a couple lob balls and I'm like okay, this, I wonder where he's going with this. And she answers a couple questions like oh, thank you very much for the answers. Like, uh, you know, I'm looking forward to what you're doing. Like he might as well just asked her out for like a fucking seafood dinner and a date or something, the way that that entire comment. 

55:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I had never heard Knish so jovial. 

55:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What the hell was that? He's going in there with everyone else on these spaces they're calling him Nish, by the way. Nish, nish, nish. He's going in. He's fucking chumming. You know, he's going at NBA. Green beans, him and Brett are like he's beefing with all these people. Oh, here, ariel, I just want to know about this. Okay, yeah, thank you very much. Have a good night. I'm like, oh, here we go. I'm like, okay, and I have no visibility as to what. I don't know who's speaking. I'm like I'm just listening in my shower in. I'm like, oh, spanky, here we go, fuck, yeah, spanky's like. Oh, you know, ariel, I don't. I don't know why you didn't ignore my messages to come to bet bash the first time around. But, uh, you know, everybody has a right to earn and, uh, if you want to be at bet bash this year, uh, you know, more welcome to have have you. 

56:47 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm like what the hell for their panels. He also already freed, like travel and, and I'm like this is insane I'm like what is happening here? 

56:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm like is this guy want to? He needs guests for best bash. So bad. I thought he was gonna come on and be like, oh, you know all, because he's been vocal about touts beef, where is this coming from? Now everybody has the right to earn. That's like another knife right there, fucking twisted knife from spanky. Then they're like man of the vig is I'm like man of the vig here. We man of the Vig doesn't let anybody off the hook. Now to man of the Vig F for this performance. He completely was fixated on the wrong. He comes in there and he's like he's an interesting fella. 

57:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think I like him. I think he plays an important role. I think he hates me, I'm not sure plays an important role. I think he hates me, I'm not sure um, but I I the role he plays. But he also thinks we're at like district court in some of these yes, 100. So he's like what the fuck is this guy? 

57:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
he's like the, the very mean-spirited cross examiner, like he's the guy that that when you hire like a 20 person defense team or whatever. He's the guy that when you hire like a 20-person defense team or whatever. Do you know him? I don't know him. Know him. 

57:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Do you know, like I've interacted with him privately ASL. 

58:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't want to speak to that. 

58:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Oh sorry. 

58:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, no. I just don't want to dox him in any way. 

58:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, how about like one dox, like, do you know if he has friends? Yes, he has friends. I don't mean this like for doxing purposes, but like. 

58:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not comfortable having this call Because the one thing he's asked me privately before is just like don't reveal. 

58:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Isn't that convenient. I'm not going to be showing. 

58:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But he has said his name on the spaces. 

58:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, but he comes pretty Well. He's said a name on the spaces, but that's an inside joke. Oh is it. The name he's given is a known scam artist. 

58:39 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
One thing, one thing Hold on a second, hold on a second. And again, I think, like the role he plays is important in all of it, because someone I think should play that role in there. Role in there, yes, but he's pretty fucking pretentious by a guy who's like totally fucking anonymous and wants to hold everyone else to like full account. Okay, that would be, that would be my take my, I'm, I, I. 

59:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So here's where. Uh, I just want to clear the record man of the vig is not my friend I just want to know if he's like a real life. Yeah, he's a life. He's not my friend. I don't know everything about his. You know we've interacted before is all I will say. But I'm not In real life. No, I haven't talked to him face to face like we're doing that. 

59:27
Like intermediaries, dm or on television. Yeah, we've had conversations about life, about things in the betting space on television. Yeah, we've had conversations about life, about things in the betting space. I find him to be at like the extreme level of like. If sometimes you can make me cringe when you're, when you're like fair, okay, you know what I'm saying and that's what I agree with that. That's what this was for me, right, because it was like. 

59:49
You know, ariel's like, oh, she's starting to talk about prop bet. She's making like I bet this person over 11, 11.5 rebounds because I made the line 12.5. And he's like, well, what's the probability difference between that? I'm like, what the fuck is this guy talking about? She's like, well, I bet the over 11.5 because I thought it should be 12.5. He's like, yeah, but what's the probability difference? I'm like, oh, no, I'm like this guy has lost the plot tonight. I'm like this is going to turn against him real, real quick. I wouldn't even know how to fuck to answer that question. I bet NBA props every day. If the prop is 11 and a half minus 110 and you make it 12 and a half minus 110, fucking bet the over. Like she doesn't need to know what the exact differential in probability is on it Like lost, let down for me. 

01:00:39
Then we got El got elf, by the way, who's interjecting every fucking three minutes in this entire thing, and just like I'm like, here you know again what you were talking about, jeff, with like the strap on and whatever. But finally you know who gave me the fucking the last death blow? Who? All? He comes in right at the end. He gives the death blow to john snow. You know the guy that he trusted the most. It was this fucking guy right here, kirk I. I hear kirk evans who wants to come on. I'm like, yeah, let's go, kirk my savior. 

01:01:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's gonna save you. Rob in the shower. 

01:01:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All I, all I wanted was just one, quite all I wanted. This entire argument that she started was built up on the premise that she never claims to be a winner and not a single person asked her about frequent claims to be a winner. That's all I wanted someone to say, because her whole thing, the entire premise, was I built this site. I don't tell people I win at sports betting. I, I'm not a winning sports better People were. And once she said that, the stuff about her picket record it doesn't matter anymore because it's like she's like claiming that she's not a winning sports better, so her picket record doesn't matter. Who cares if you catch her losing? But it's all false. I was just waiting for that. But Kirk comes in and he's like what are we talking about here? This product is like $17.99 a month or whatever. It doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things. Let's move on. What are we doing? 

01:02:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And I'm just there. No, no, no, no. 

01:02:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It looks like she said what she's doing. I'm going to defend Kirk in this sense. You know what? Sorry, I cut you off Kirk. Yeah, you defend. 

01:02:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's not exactly what I said, so one similar to what you said. She was getting peppered by a man of the vague. Yeah, and I was defending her in the sense that she said I took Hardenstein over 10.5 rebounds. 

01:02:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Whatever it was, or 11.5 rebounds plus 100. 

01:02:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It closed minus 132. Yeah, and clearly throughout the whole stream she was much more knowledgeable. I'm not saying she's a winning bettor, she's very well-spoken. 

01:02:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
She was very smart, well-spoken yeah. 

01:02:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And said good points. Clearly she had a clue, yes, and also the fact that, like she, so I think we need to delineate between touts, like no one is going broke paying $8 for ariel epstein's monthly newsletter and if 40 guys want to like just the ability to like have those pics and like be able to send her a fucking dm that she'll respond to. 

01:03:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, yes, guys, I'm not arguing that wait. 

01:03:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But let me, let me delineate. Yeah, the way you go broke is the beau wagner model of okay, maybe the Discord's $50, but he's saying, oh, 10 unit mega whale, oh, we're chasing our losses with a 30 unit mega whale and people think that this is the right way to bet and increase their units, increase their units. So all of that cumulatively, and I didn't know a lot of background, I thought there was just way over the top attacking, so I defended her. Well, okay. 

01:03:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I defended her. Well, okay, and I get that and I remember you coming in and mentioning that example. You're like oh, she bet plus 100. It closed minus 132. I'm sitting there I'm like way to go, kirk, like way to reference this one bet that closed really well for her Congratulations. I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Okay, people are not going to go broke with the ariel epstein stuff. 

01:04:04
There there's obviously scales that where she followed up cash out king. Yes, cash out king opened that show. Yes, right, oh, relative, so relatively speaking people heard this guy talk they had. 

01:04:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
She came on yeah, cash out, king commits like a double homicide and the next news story is innocent puppy gets out of cage and accidentally bites grown man. Like that was the transition. Yes, it's like. Okay, I guess. Like, what are we supposed to do here? 

01:04:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
see, for me. I I didn't listen. I couldn't listen to more than 10 minutes of the cash out king thing. I thought it was like it was wild. It was what it was. 

01:04:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
All it was sickening, honestly, yeah, and it was nuts and I'll give elf flowers here. And something that I, like you know, pathetically admitted to you guys before we recorded, is, if you sort of like went to the area like, I joked on the internet last week that I will not bring those spaces into my house. It is rat poison. I have children in that house that I will have to like. The same way, if I want to smoke, my wife's not letting me smoke in the Norwoodite ever I'll go to like the garage or something. So my little area that I have set up, you would have thought the next morning that I was there like on an eight-hour stakeout. The that I was there like on a eight-hour stakeout, the amount of like roaches and butts and extra toasted Cheez-It crumbs. Like you would have thought I was like in the movies when a dude is staking out a location. Did you bring a? 

01:05:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
piss jug with you, or what? 

01:05:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, I could just go. That's the thing I go. It's a little piss in the snow. You would think the next morning there was an animal that came and pissed there. 

01:05:35
It's like there's so much red, yellow snow here. So that's the thing. So, to Elf's credit, like one of those nights, I was totally captivated. There are other nights where I just like I can't do it, I want no part of it, it doesn't hold me at all. And then Elf feels like oh, this space is slowing down. We've gone two hours. We could cut it off now, or let's invite man of the Library back in and we'll do three hours for the West. 

01:06:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Coast. I can't do that. We'll get to that in a second. Okay, I get all that right. I understand the following of Cash Out King. I understand all the context that is associated with this as well. There was a few things that really triggered me which I would have liked to say About Ariel. Well, okay, first and foremost, a lot of the conversation that she had on Twitter was around like misogyny. She called out Spinfluencer for misogyny. 

01:06:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, that's not cool. 

01:06:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't back it and I don't back that because, like to me first of all, I actually think it was. I think it's almost the opposite. 

01:06:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Opposite People are kinder. They're nice. There's an element of grace that is associated that I'm telling you no fucking 6-foot 220-pound basement dweller bro is going to get for making those same mistakes. 

01:06:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, basement dweller bro is gonna get for making those same mistakes. Yes, instead of ariel. Let's just imagine it was some guy named bruno that was in that spaces, or something like that. I could tell you that thing would have went on for two and a half hours long and they would have been absolutely decapitating that person. 

01:07:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't know if I agree with that. I think I can agree with you. On the twitter, yes, but there are some insane like I just like on the spaces. To me that was like she was getting attacked overboard on Twitter. Sb influencer. I can agree with that. I also. 

01:07:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
okay, I also want to. Um, I want to clarify. I'm not pretending misogyny doesn't exist in society. Okay, it definitely does. I don't know what it's like to be a woman in the sports betting space, but you do a little. 

01:07:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Because there's a time where we work together here at a sports company and sometimes the ladies would show us on-air talent, would show us some of the DMs that they would get. I had to moderate a text chat and the boss would say there's red blinds here. One of them like the eight gazillion texts that come in about her feet yes, like the amount of shit that ariel has to deal with or probably dealt with doing a segment on mlb network and the disgusting oh 100 that they are and it's, and that is 10, 100, sometimes. 

01:08:12
Yes as much as I mock it a minute ago, like the level of grace is almost like warranted, as silly as that, like some sort of idea of like the absolute. They get the same hate to a certain level, maybe more, but it's also like in ways so much more demeaning and derogatory and personally invasive, some of the things that they have to deal with. As opposed to you being told you're fucking broke and you live in your mom's basement yeah, whatever, Like that's the sort of shit you get. 

01:08:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not what they get no, and I'm fully aware of that. Like I'm not an idiot, I can only imagine what some of those DMs look like. I think for me, from my perspective, it was more of a defense of like I almost felt that was directed at like people like me, the common, and like I don't treat people in different ways. I was like I don't, I talk to people in the same manner, period, man, woman, you know, gay, straight doesn't matter, black, white, I don't treat people in different ways, so that I found that to be offensive because I felt that was like a defense mechanism. That was just like, yeah, like would this have happened if, like I'm not standing for Spinfluencer either, but like he goes after many men in this space? 

01:09:32 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Let's call it out for what it is right, yeah, and I think the thing you're frustrated with is any fair criticism of her, shall say misogyny. 

01:09:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, and it's not just her, it's not just her, it's not just her. But the biggest thing for me as a whole was the entire argument was built on this premise of like I don't claim to be an expert, I just visit the website that she's built to sell. All right, now tell me that she doesn't claim to be an expert in her craft of props. Okay, that is a. That is a load of shit, first and foremost. Okay. And that, like, the entire argument was like oh, everyone's just coming in. Like I don't see what the problem is. 

01:10:11
Ariel doesn't claim to be an. Well, I mean, she claims to be an expert on the website that she's selling from, and I think the follow-up that I would have asked right is what? From there, she's like I'm just selling tools and I'm just selling stuff that's going to help people win. I'm not claiming that I win, but I'm selling stuff that's going to help people win. But she's selling the stuff that she's using to handicap, which she tells other people that is not helping her become a winning bet. So it was to me and and maybe it's the way my mind works I thought it was full of shit listen, and I just want to draw I just I just wanted someone to ask a real question and she could navigate her way through that, however she wanted to do. 

01:10:55
But don't tell me you don't sell yourself as an expert when the expert is littered all over the website you're selling. Second of all, don't tell me you are going to help other people win by using the tools that you are using. That don't help you win. Do you know what I'm getting at here? Like no one asked a real question and she might have answers to those that are fair. I don't help you win. Do you know what I'm getting at here? Like no one asked a real question and she might have answers to those that are fair. I don't know what they are, but that wasn't it. And I'm just there, fucking bleeding out, and I'm there. I'm like why did this have to be the night? I could and producer Jason goes in there, by the way, as well like I'm like, oh, he did something later in the week. 

01:11:38
I'm like just I left a space and please just mute the microphone as well, and you know but. But. But the whole premise, like the whole arguments, is like you know why? Well, it cost me a lot of money to to build this website and get it out there and maintain it, so I have to pay for it somehow. I mean, there's a very rational question that follows that it was like you know, you could have had zero cost if you didn't build this right. Like no, and that to me, I've been in those a lot. There's people like you know that tennis guy MPB. There's people. 

01:12:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Rio. 

01:12:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's all these guys and they are getting grilled for every little thing, and Ariel went on and I guess I don't know what I was looking to get. I just was looking for real answers. 

01:12:31 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, that's it. The last thing I'll say small disagreement is well one MPB. Yeah, he claims he's the greatest tennis better in the world. Yeah, that's it. The last thing I'll say small disagreement is well one MPB. He claims he's the greatest tennis better in the world. Obviously, ariel doesn't claim that, but I didn't interpret it as her saying I'm not an expert or I'm not a winner. 

01:12:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It more seemed like she was like I'm a small winner. This almost felt like there's just so many bigger crimes that the people in this space. Want to deal with and I get that any bigger crimes that the people in the space want to deal with and I get this like she stole a pack of bubble gum from the convenience store and we don't like okay yeah, let's move along, elf sure I get that. 

01:13:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I wonder if? And you? 

01:13:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
were. 

01:13:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, if this blows up into like a huge site two years from now, or something like that, do we think? Well, everyone will have the same. 

01:13:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
If prop queen was on espn or something, then yeah, I think it would turn into this. It would feel different, yeah listen, I I am. 

01:13:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I am in complete agreement if you're if you're building the scale of like who really are the people we have to go after? She's not on there and I get that, but I, I can't help. I can't help it, it's I'm. It's the way I'm wired. It's like when I hear something that I perceive to be bullshit, I need it to be called out can I ask a silly question? 

01:13:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
yes, obviously, like spanky's done a great job with bet bash. It's like from where it was four years ago to where it does now. It seems like he gets to turn away even companies or sponsors that want to be involved. Yep, you can be selective in that. Does asking her to come on like does that not alienate people? Like you'd be? Like what is bet bash like? What bash is for like what is you know? Do you know what I'm saying? 

01:14:09
I'm always saying you personally, but I mean people who see it as like it is for people who could discuss probabilities and stuff. 

01:14:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm friends with Spanky. I will always support that bash unless it definitely goes against some sort of philosophical beliefs I have or beliefs on life. But yes, I'm not an idiot. He wants to grow it. He wants it to be as big as possible for me. I I don't. I don't like that and and it's selfish. 

01:14:41
But like, I used to love going to mit sloan sports analytics conference when it was smaller and there was real conversation about sports analytics and then it got big, sponsored by espn. It blew up and it didn't become that anymore. I was not interested. Now I'm always going to go to Bet Bash because I I see people that I don't regularly see it's. It's a great betting meetup altogether. But like, yeah, I feel it waters down the conference a lot when you just have stuff that um is not in what I think the original vision of the conference was. Let's just put it that way, right. Last note on this and then we'll move on. I think part of why it rubs me the wrong way is the amount of criticism I took for doing the masterclass as well. Okay. 

01:15:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay. 

01:15:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Fair and I got fucking roasted for that. 

01:15:33
I still do. Okay, it's the go-to joke now and and it always will be, and that's fine. I kind of knew it was going to be like that, regardless, like when I you remember the conversation we first had when I told you I'm going to do this, I'm going to get skewered, I don't care, I think we could put out a valuable class. I hear people all the time talking about how much money NBA Green green beans bread and he's on the street. He's like Rob's making bank off that class. 

01:15:56
I got paid $10,000 for my presence in that master class. $10,000, I have no upside. Okay, I don't get. Like, my link that I put out is a tracking link, it's not an affiliate link. I don't get paid when somebody goes and watches the class. I got paid $10,000, okay, no residuals. A week in the middle of football season, that's probably my EV for the week which I wasn't able to bet on Thursday or Friday of that week, which are typically big betting days for me for news stuff like that. So I, I, but I took so much grief for that class. It is $8 a month. You can cancel within the first month and I'm viewed as like a fuck, like I got skewered. 

01:16:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I respect this counter, like I see why you feel how you will feel, like it's fair for you to feel that when you see the like red card, Like just the apologists rolling out for the other side, 100%. 

01:17:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So there's also perspective on this that I don't think other people have. But, like, if I went in, if these spaces existed at that time when those master classes came out and, like me and Jack and Rufus were in there, I could tell you I would have been on there for four hours at night getting questions from all sorts of people, all right, so it's, there's also that perspective. Where it felt very unfair is what I will put it, and sure, woe is me. You can say Rob, you're soft or whatever, but I endured that. I still do endure, endure that. I will endure that till the end of time. Ariel will as well outside of spaces. Spaces are not the be all and end all. 

01:17:41
There's going to be many people who are going to trash her on twitter every bed will have like a coin toss joke or something it's going to happen until the end of time, but I felt like I had to answer to that a lot. And then this is just kind of like, just kind of blew over and I couldn't even be a part of it fuck, couldn't even be a part of it and Kirk delivered the final blow, the final. Like Kirk. Oh man, I'm like here we go. I've never heard Kirk say a nice thing in my entire life. I've watched this guy tweet for years. Every time I get a notification a Kirk Evans just tweeted I'm like who's he going after? 

01:18:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
now Boom. You know what? I have an analogy that's just as good as your Game of Thrones. He was like Hogan coming to save you at Bash of the Beach before turning for NWO. Like you're Macho man, getting your shit kicked in in the ring and Hogan's coming. He's coming to save Macho man, getting your shit kicked in in the ring and Hogan's coming. He's coming to save Macho. 

01:18:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's it. No, but that's what. 

01:18:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I. 

01:18:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Think of this rotation order that came in right, like starting with Kanish and Spanky and like man of the Vig. Even our producer, jason, he was out. I don't know what he was going in and asking, but he got poo-pooed really quickly. Then Kirk, and it was just like wow, I got no friends tonight. I got no friends. And again, the goal for me was not. I don't like people will take this out of context. They're like Rob wanted Ariel to be steward and that's not what I want. I just wanted real questions to be asked because she might actually have the answers to those questions that she can speak on her own behalf. And she speaks very fluidly and very well. I thought she handled herself really like 99th percentile in a twitter space, like Taylor Mathis. She, she didn't. I wouldn't say she handled herself well. 

01:19:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, nadeau, just kept throwing the ball into the ground a bit. 

01:19:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, that's how I felt. 

01:19:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Nadeau was at a club outside. If Nadeau yeah, if he was just more like at home or in his element, not waiting to go into a club, I feel like he could have probably brought it more. 

01:19:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes. 

01:19:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But yeah, whatever. 

01:19:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, so that was one I think we'll highlight. For a lot of people in the week was Jeff Benson finally joining in what was dubbed as Jeff Benson plus Rob Pizzola versus man of the Library. It's not exactly the way that it played out. Okay, it was one of those classic nothing's going on tonight. 

01:20:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Let's get man of the Library in here to say some shit. 

01:20:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And he came in and then me and him were beefing a little bit and then at some point Benson had, I guess, heard enough, because he listens to them. He's like, fuck it, I'm going in as well. And this turned into an absolute shit show of a space. The first time I introduced man of the Library on this show, I recommended that people go and block him right away. I actually remember saying that I'm like man of the Library whatever you do, just go block him. You do not want this person in your life. I wish I could have taken my own advice, because it has led to a lot of wasted time by me. 

01:21:02
My experience with these spaces, with man of the library, is that he is an extremely high IQ individual. I believe you can disagree with me, or whatever. I think he's very intelligent and he is an expert in debating, because what he likes to do and it's a classic go-to, and this is what he did, has done with me, did with Benson that night he throws out. You'll ask him questions. He pivots. He's a great deflector. 

01:21:37
The best debaters are great deflectors. They turn it back on you. This is what he does Turns it back on you and throws out accusations or points that cannot be countered in real time Right, and then makes it look like you're trying to hide something. Real time, right, and then makes it look like you're trying to hide something. He's pulled this act on me many times and it's really good, and he does it in a way where this is why he's high IQ and very good at this stuff he stays calm throughout and for me, he knows that if people accuse me of stuff that is false, I'm going to get heated, and Benson, it's going to get heated, and this was a heated. It's fucking awesome. Like okay, so this is what I want. The outside perspective. 

01:22:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it, but I agree with everything you're saying and I know you and I have the utmost respect for Benson. I'm aware enough to know how bright he is to do what he does and I fully believe man of the library is pretty much full of shit, but he is impossible to nail down. You said it. He can take that thing in a circle and he could take he could. 

01:22:49
Someone who's really not deep into betting, like the higher end betting, the pro betting what Benson is, how smart Benson would have to be to have that job. They can almost believe that Benson is hot. The way he frames it. You could believe that maybe he's onto something. Maybe there's a grain of truth to Serka not wanting this really great betters bets, which is all insane, but he is. If he was in sales, someone said if he was an actor, I believe there's nothing he would do where he wouldn't maybe be successful, because he does come off very bright and frustrating and full of shit yes, that it is like a classic courtroom mechanism, right, it's like it's like the oj trial. 

01:23:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's like let's turn it back on the investigators here and like get some sort of shred of doubt into the character. 

01:23:49
Very trumpian, like 100 percent yeah and like can't pin it down and just keep playing. So I so I didn't want to keep going. I was obviously very heated and at some point I'm just like this is not going to go anywhere because he's just going to throw these accusations at me which you know the big one for me. He was like so hyper fixated on like when did BetStamp remove the ability to sell picks? I'm like I don't know, why would I know? And he's like why would you not know? 

01:24:18
You own this company, but how would anyone like who knows the exact dates in time off the top of their head where their company removed a feature from the app that nobody was using? Like who knows that? Off the top of my head. But he becomes hyper fixated and he'll be like well, you can't tell me the date. How can you not tell me the date you claim to be part of owner of this company? You can't tell me. And it has nothing to do with the conversation, but he's attacking, attacking the character of the individual. Jeff, why do you guys sweat my players card at circa when I don't want to swipe my players card and Jeff's like we don't? 

01:24:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He's like no, they asked me for it. 

01:24:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You asked me for it, I was there. 

01:24:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's like I saw it happen, I went to play a ticket 20 minutes ago he talks about he doesn't bet at Circa. I don't bet at Circa, they don't offer me comps. I go to Boyd his players card. He's accusing them of having a his players card in the top drawer of basically every desk. That's there swiping it when he doesn't want to use his like. But. But what's Benson gonna say it? He's getting mad. He's like you're a fucking idiot, you're a moron. This doesn't happen that. But he's getting agitated and agitate and and it's it's really, really good arguing the big. The starting point of this whole thing, if nobody can recall, was he came after me for my record on the pizza buffet years ago. Sunday morning nfl jeff. What do I say in every fucking sunday morning nfl video every morning you're shouldn't be betting Sunday morning. 

01:25:56 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You're not betting Sunday morning. The opportunities to make your bets have passed. You cannot beat these. 

01:26:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sunday markets yes, now, there's obviously a caveat to that. At that time Pinnacle was the sponsor of our show. I was tracking all of my bets at Pinnacle. Pinnacle is a sharp sportsbook. On Sunday morning they're taking 50K plus on side and total in NFL game usually more. Okay, I'm not going to beat Pinnacle on Sunday morning's NFL. Can I beat Bovada on Sunday morning NFL when they're dealing a price that's way off market because the bettors there are only allowed to bet a certain amount of dollars? Of course I can. But man of the library comes after me and he's like oh, it's losing better this and that I'm going to track on your site bet stamp. That way it's proven that I am a winner. 

01:26:55
What he did was he tracked his 52 plays that were verified. He technically tracked 60 plays in total, but eight were not verified. So the line that he put in was not the line at the sports book at the time. Okay, he went 38, 13 and one on those bets. He claims that they were all coin flip bets. The average price is minus $136 on those bets that he tracked. It's 99th percentile Go. Really hot. He did really well. I've never hid from that. I've never done anything with that. Here are the sportsbooks he tracked at okay, seven MGM, seven FanDuel, six Bovada, six Bodog Bodog is Bovada everywhere else in the world Six five-dimes. He's got Cool Bet Betway, betfred 365, betvictor, barstool, bet99, Betrivers, one bet at Chris, two bets at Circa in that entire thing. 

01:27:46
So he took the challenge, which he made up as a challenge, and he went and completely changed the rules that I'm operating under to make it look like he's better than me. But no one's ever brought that up and I'm actually lucky that BetStamp is a great product. Obviously I co-own it, but I can go back and I can look through all of this stuff and I can see all these things. He also changed other things too. He started playing second half live lines. I don't have the luxury of doing that on Pizza Buffet. I can't play second half lines. I can't do stuff like that. I'm not discrediting the record. The record is the record. He did that no matter what, but he altered the terms and he's never, ever, talked about that. And every single time this conversation comes up, he just spins it back on me and he's like well, how come you deleted my bet stamp account then? I didn't. It still exists now. He deactivated it himself. We have records of that. We can see the records of that like you see. 

01:28:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He says all he does is bet and read. He says I sit here in a room surrounded by books. I read books all day long. Yeah, I don't know whether he's joking or serious. 

01:28:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I actually believe that. I think he's a good reader. 

01:29:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's very well spoken. Yeah, no, again. He's incredibly bright and articulate and could make his fucking point, even if it is fake news. 

01:29:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But the thing that I really don't like about man of the Library and I know, know elf loves calling him up and him being like kind of the circus monkey of it's. 

01:29:19 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's boring, let's get him up, bring him on we get two fresh hours, exactly. 

01:29:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But the thing is, when he's like, the spaces are at least like somewhat about betting. When he's talking about betting, it's like mania, like it's like he's manic, like he's the reason he said that LeBron wasn't going to score 10 points was going to be on a day divisible by three, because that's Zuri's birthday like when he like I agree with you, he's smart and intelligent and well-spoken, but when he's actually talking about betting, it is lunacy and and that to me, just it just doesn't hit yeah, that that's part of it I mean, but there's just like there's so many blatant lies. 

01:29:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like you know, I found this tweet from many years ago. He's he's betting 20 on a circa live line. Right, it's there, and and the reason, like I know that this is him is because he still takes screenshots the exact same way nowadays. He just hides the amount. He uses his boyd players card to cover the details on the ticket. So it's very clearly one of his and you know you could. This is an example of recently where he did the exact same. You can see on the right side it's the same way. So it's like it's not a doctored screenshot in any way, but if you question him on this stuff, there's always like a great. He's so well prepared. This guy could have made millions as being a trial attorney, rather than millions. I don't know what he makes from scamming people, but it could have been so much different. 

01:30:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Someone walking into that stream could have been convinced that Benson is trying to like get away from him Do something. 

01:30:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you come out with more questions than you had going into the stream itself. 

01:31:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, based on the next picture, Benson should be trying to get away from him. 

01:31:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But these are examples. The night after he argues with me about how transparent he is, or whatever, he tweets out a play At a great market price Sixers minus 166 money line at profit. They closed around minus 200 in the game or something like that. I had a very big Sixers play on this game. They're getting smoked in the first half. He deletes all the tweets. People start calling him out. Then he reposts the screenshot and he's like here you go. 

01:31:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Why? Why? Like this, here you go, what? Why? Oh, fucking like that's why. Like this is what I'm saying. 

01:31:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like that move alone should get him just banned from this. Move alone. Yeah, this one right here, oh, yeah, all of it, because so this is next level fucked up. Well, so, and that's when I had to call it quits on that stream that night because it was getting into he should not be be allowed back on the stream. 

01:31:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I mean definitely shouldn't be allowed back on Circa. 

01:31:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I have never heard someone go on the stream afterwards tell someone that they're going on their list, which is what he did to. Benson, benson, you're going on my list Then saying I need to get out of here to write my manifesto, yeah, and then that was when it was bordering on territory where I'm like, okay. 

01:32:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This is really bothering me. 

01:32:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Describe what's on screen for audio, and then the following day, he tweets out breaking news. 

01:32:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Benson is on the run. Reporters on the ground say that he's fled the front lines of Circa after a brutal defeat in early battles with readers. He's headed to his bunker to make some calls. What's his next move? Readers are attacking from all angles. He literally followed Benson onto Fremont Street uh, or maybe not Fremont here, but downtown Las Vegas as he was leaving Circa and took a picture of him walking down the street from yeah, this would be very concerning for me. 

01:32:47
If I was Benson, I would not like this at all even even the people I hate the most in the world, in the industry, I would never do something yeah, this is like, this is like elf shouldn't even be a part of this anymore. 

01:33:02 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I, this is like this is a. This is like there's red lines. And then there's this if beau wagner's wife has interjected herself, yes, okay, yes, she's not like working at some job and some elf or someone from the internet is contacting her to speak on Bo, yes, she has interjected herself into discourse on the topics Elf, that's a red line. Yeah, bo Wagner's wife is a red line. Yeah, if this fucking guy is back on the stream ever. That makes no sense to me, because this is a way more insane. Red line Family is red line for elf, I got over. If that's respectable, yeah, even if that family member has interjected themselves into the conversation, yeah, this, this is this is like point of no return I agree, totally agree I'm. 

01:34:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean this is I'm gonna try as hard as I possibly can to not speak about him again in the future. I again, I do owe it to the audience. We use hashtag circle back on twitter. This is something you want us to talk about. Use it. I review them every week. If a lot of people want to hear about something, we're going to talk about it on the show. In this instance, this was the point where I was like, okay, you beefing with Benson, that's fine. The Twitter spaces are all fine until you see that the Twitter like. 

01:34:32 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is way too real. Way too real, especially from a man in the library who comes off as a bit off-kilter. 

01:34:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah Listen, I don't know him. I don't know if he has a medical thing. I don't know anything other than that. Regardless, this is off-limits. We talked about Kanish back in the day when he doxxed someone else's girlfriend and made some derogatory. That was off-limits. This is another one where you just don't do it. You do not follow someone around, take pictures of them, post it to Twitter. 

01:35:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I wonder if this is like now that I think about it, because Benson would be within his rights to refuse service at Circa for doing something like this right, right, of course. And then you know what the manay is going to do on Twitter, and then he'll use that. As they won't let me play here anymore because I'm too good of a better 100%. 

01:35:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I wonder if that's part of this. It's how the cycle works. Anyways, we're going to move on to another comment from Spaces. This one is too close to home for Jeff, so we're going Fezzik we had some tech difficulties. 

01:35:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Rob, I heart out, those factory floors don't sweep themselves buddy, they don't sweep themselves. 

01:35:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We'll see you next week. I'll admit that when I first heard the idea of a gambling credit card, I mean immediately, there's some things that go off in my head of like I'm not sure this is really what it states it is. I'm not sure this is actually going to be valuable. But in the last month or so we've had many members of the Hammer and our community that are starting to use Edge Boost, and I do fully stand by the product. Edge Boost isn't just another payment option. It's a dedicated bank account. That's the difference. It's a dedicated bank account built specifically for sports betting, for DFS, for casinos and sweeps. There's no more declined transactions, no more frozen accounts, just seamless deposits and withdrawals every single time. Now the Edge Boost Visa debit card is where it really shines. You can move up to $250k per day. You also earn cash back on every deposit that you make. So if you're wagering $5k to $10k per week, that can mean an extra $50k to $100k back every single week and over the course of a full season of NFL, as an example, that's a thousand to two thousand bucks extra Money that you can use to take shots on player futures, props, whatever you want simply just to boost your profitability. 

01:36:54
I've seen firsthand how much our team is currently relying on edge boost. It's reliable, it's efficient, it's designed to make managing your bankroll easier, and now that the Super Bowl is done doesn't mean you can't use it. We got lots of stuff going on. Nba playoffs are around the corner, nhl playoffs Baseball season is starting. It's the perfect time to try it out. Don't run into deposit issues when it matters the most. Sign up today at edgeboostbet. You can use the link down in the description below. All right, our final topic here today. Obviously down in the description below. All right, our final topic here today. Obviously, lots to choose from this week. I didn't want to make this so Pizzola-centric, but the people want to make it, and who am I to say no? 

01:37:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I think when people go at you it's kind of like we have to put it in the show, because if we don't it's a bad luck. But these are also two good ones. 

01:37:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I can't just skirt these and it looks like I'm intentionally trying to skirt these. So there was a big time back and forth with myself and Fezzik. That happened over the weekend and it started with Fezzik for about the millionth time in the last month and here's what people need to understand. I'm not exaggerating. He subtweeted me again and he said let's hope grp wins doesn't discover some of the 2024 uh best a week, best bet of week pods from nfl betting pros in quotations and expose their results and like. The issue that I have with what's going on and with this subtweet in particular is Fezzik has my phone number. Okay, he texts me very regularly when he doesn't like something about the hammer. Okay, he does not like Judah Fortgang. He does not like Suma. 

01:38:44
These are members of our Forward Progress channel. Suma is a pro better based out in Germany, who I've worked with for many years on betting, used to be a tout, used to track against only sharp books Circa, chris Pinnacle, betonline Actually, maybe not Circa at the time I'm not sure Circa had even launched yet, but he produced a winning record over a pretty large sample of years and there was a lot of competition behind the scenes to like not get Suma to post picks anymore because he had the RAS effect. He was moving the whole market when it was. So there was an offer made to him to join our betting group and I've worked with him ever since and he's been a very valuable asset of our group. Judah fortgang works r&d and betting for pro football focus. We lost eric eager, who is a great friend of mine and, frankly, irreplaceable, even though he's not a big better. We lost him to be the vp of of analytics for the carolina panthers, which obviously he's going to accept not doing betting content anymore, but he had a way where he could talk X's and O's of football really well. And on the way out I asked Eric. I said, eric, you know who are the guys we have to target. Judah was on the top of his list. I went around the space. I asked people who are working with Judah what's your opinion? He's amazing. Hire him. You'd be a big mistake if you don't. I did. Brought him on the team. 

01:40:08
I don't think Fez can speak for himself on this if he ever wants to. I'm not going to put words into his mouth, but he doesn't like them. I think that there's, with Judah especially, there's a contrasting betting style. I'll call Fez a little bit conservative. I see just my. You know, I see the stuff that he plays. He plays a lot of teasers and stuff like that, whereas Judah's more of a shots guy. He's known in the space for SGPs, big wins off of those alternate lines, stuff like that. Anyways, that's the origin, I think, of this subtweet. He's mentioned this to me a hundred times before via text. We've talked about this a million times before via text, and then he just went and put it out there publicly, even though, you know, we we pride, we pride ourselves on transparency, like we literally start every show. Yeah, without recap, I don't understand. 

01:41:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I was gonna say I'm confused. So is he suggesting that, like grp, should track you with his notebook so you could see how bad the results are? I that that is what the original there is a public bed stand page for this 100 channel, by the way you know like, but but we track everything, it's, it's so I don't really understand the purpose. 

01:41:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
also, by the way, I know fez is watching the show every week because he's texting me like what Judah's pick was and be like oh, I don't like, there's no value in this. How can he be giving this out? Just fucking address it with him personally. But anyways, I got sick of the sub tweets, okay, and I've let them go so long. I get every single time one of these messages goes out. You know how it is. You're on Telegram too. We're connected to a lot of the same people. They all fire the tweet over and I will say I try, I try to avoid it. I do not have it in me. Sometimes I just act instinctually and I'm like fuck this, I'm done with it, I need to give this guy a burial. So I responded Steve, you can tag me. It's okay, because he didn't tag me in the original tweet. It won't hurt my feelings. 

01:42:16
We recap the season every single week on our show, so not sure there's any exposing of results from forward progress. That needs to happen, since we're always fully transparent with the audience. The Dream Preview, on the other hand, which is a podcast that Fezzik has been on every week for multiple years now. Maybe don't be so quick to throw stones when you're the biggest name for a company that puts out a weekly pod that grades against Westgate stale lines and still managed to put together one of the worst combined records of all time. 

01:42:47
And I posted the screenshot of the year-to-date grades, which I can remember, the podcast that is keeping track of those and I'll try to remember it because I do want to give them credit. I'll get it. I'll get that. We'll give them attribution in the comments below or in the description below afterwards as well, just in case people want to check it out. But I listen to the dream Preview every single week. They never recap the records off the top of the show. They don't do this stuff. So it felt like pot calling the kettle black and I could not let him get away with it. Does this, up to this point, seem petty to you? 

01:43:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
well, you're asking the wrong guy. Okay, about pettiness, like the idea that you shouldn't respond to this with your tweet, like I, I think you did absolutely the right thing. Maybe didn't even go hard enough. Yeah, so mr peanut better has a bet on twitter that, like when you mention Fezzik and like all the insane things he does, you have to also caveat with oh, I'm sure he's a smart, sharp guy. 

01:43:56
Whatever, I find Fezzik truly unbearable. Okay, I don't find him intelligent. When he speaks To me, he's at the level of like a odds jammer. That's his level of talent and betting it. From when I hear him speak, he never provides things of value and he is a monstrous hypocrite. He goes at rass. I once tweeted at him and rass and his response to me was like yeah, rass is doing all these bad things. And I was genuinely baffled because it was as though he read the tweet without realizing that I was criticizing him. He is very good at pretending he doesn't do shitty things, but yeah, I just. I am like. I just find him like unbearable. He's a massive hypocrite. He does stuff like this all the time. He goes at Rass. At least to give Rass credit, they release plays that, at the time are widely available. Fezzik, by his own admission, releases lines at Vegas-specific books DraftKings. 

01:45:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He just tweeted this week that he's limited to $200 at Southpoint and he's constantly tweeting out South Point plays. I agree with you. So, yes and no. Mr Peanutbetter might be talking directly about me when I talk about Fezzik no, but a lot of people do that. I believe Fezzik is a winning bettor. Okay, I'm going to put that out there. People will will roast me, they will shit on me, whatever. If I, if I could bankroll fezic, I would and I wasn't betting like and I wasn't earning myself, I would. Okay, I'm not saying he needs my money, I'm not suggesting, but I think he is a winning bettor. I think that and I tweeted this as well. 

01:45:49
I appeared on a panel with him at the first Bet Bash in Vegas where he was a last-minute replacement for Joey Kanish. Kanish didn't show up that week and Ravel was going after me. Darren Ravel, me and him're beefing it out, whatever. We're having our conversation. But Revell said to me Pizzola, this is why you have such a bad reputation in this space. And Fezzik jumped in and I will never forget and it meant a lot to me. It still does. He said Pizzola has an impeccable reputation in this space. I don't know what you're talking about. He defended me and that bought him, justly or unjustly, whatever. We're human beings, right, and when people do speak highly of you sometimes or they defend you, you feel like you owe something to them. It bought him a lot of good graces with me good grace with me for a long time, maybe, even even so, in that interview, that where Johnny went after him a lot and I just kind of sat idly and did nothing, as like they're just letting them beef it out, which a lot of people criticized me for at the time, but at some point I don't know where this went off the rails. But, like, if he wants to attack our talent at the hammer or forward progress, do it address it. Tag Judah, tag Suma, do it deal with that? Do not text me off the hook, okay, and let's not pretend like the only show that we do on forward progress is a best bet show, because it's fucking not. 

01:47:25
I do a Sunday night stream every single week. I do not promote the record for that stream, okay, because I think you should be able to win. Betting on the NFL on Sunday night going into next week is our openers. There's small amounts of like. I don't think that I need to promote that. Me and Clive do that show, but we did really really well on that this year. Okay, it was like a 12% ROI I don't have it up in front of me right now, but it was really a great year for that. Okay, we have Hitman, who comes on every week and does a prop show. He did really really well on that this year. We do live watch-alongs of primetime games. Do you know how many big SGPs I hit on those shows this year that I don't even promote? 

01:48:12
Well, myself, I just retweet people who are tagging me on Twitter. This is not the only thing we do. We are very transparent about it. I found it so out of touch with reality that I couldn't help myself and this just led to this back and forth response which, by the way, I replied to him. Okay, I didn't quote, tweet him and just try to embarrass. Now, I did try to embarrass him, but I replied to him. He's taking every single one of these replies quote, tweeting them to his 80,000 plus followers, and I'm just replying to him in a threat. But eventually he gets to the point where he's like all right, put your money where your mouth is, let's go head to head. 

01:48:59
Circa millions next year 1K, 10k, 50k and I fucking lost it. Man, I just don't. I'm like I don't wanna deal with this shit anymore. First of all, I don't wanna do a 1K season long. I don't even wanna be in Circa Millions anymore. I literally don't. And it's a great, it's a really well-run contest, don't get me wrong. But the deadline for me with my proxy is like Saturday 4 pm, eastern time. For this I have to devote my Saturday afternoon to being available. 

01:49:34
I don't like contests. I like Survivor, circa Survivor. I like entering that to the max because I can potentially win real life changing money. For me and I again this might sound arrogant If I win a million dollars on Circa Millions, you know, even not being subject to tax because we're Canadian or whatever, I can get it back To me it's just like not even worth the effort that I'm putting. Like the EV is not there for me. 

01:50:03
So I went back at him I said fuck it, you want to do this, let's do it for 100K, which is over the amount. I was trying to put him in his place. Don't get me wrong. There was definitely like a I'm going to drop my balls on the table. You know type of situation. I became heated and he agreed to that. So now we're on for 100K competition for circa millions this upcoming year. I would say like I don't even even the thing that drives me nuts about this kirk I know I've been talking for a long time here. I don't even view this as like determining who is a better, better like of course not. 

01:50:39
It's a fucking football contest against stale lines, and that puts us on a way more even playing field than if it was just me betting straight up NFL versus Fezzik. But I fucking can't deal with this shit anymore. 

01:50:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I think taking the contest is a good move Again. Really, it just is pretty irrelevant. Like those contests you say this all the time and it'll be in our next tweet like those contests essentially mean nothing to me in terms of how good of a bettor you are. But yeah, you said at the beginning that you think Fezzik is a winner. It's like that bar is so low being a winner Like the scale of winner and scale of how good you can be in betting is so wide that like just being a winner versus how he presents himself is I. I agree, I do think he wins betting on his own bets at the numbers he gets. But like the fact that we know that this guy's giving out punting props on draft kings, that a fresh draft kings will take seven dollars on, like that to me is like embarrassing. It's actually embarrassing, I like dude. 

01:51:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He gave out a second half like college basketball play on DraftKings recently on the service. Like, like I'm with you, like this is this is my whole thing. Right, it's not you. You can only give somebody so much leeway before you're just like, no, like I have to. I know he said good things about me. I have to stand my ground. Like we could have had this out in private and we have been having it out in private and he has decided and listen, I'm not saying I'm, I'm not complicit in this as well, because the relationship has deteriorated and and that's fine, it happens. 

01:52:27
It's not the first time I like to reflect on these types of things. I am combative, I get it. I'm not like saying I'm not part of this whatsoever, but we could have easily settled this behind the scenes. He has chosen to continuously subtweet me. I draw the line, that's it. 

01:52:47
I think the betting contest stuff is so stupid. I honestly hate it. You know how many times I've declined contests in the past because people challenge me and they're like let's go head to head for a week, let's do this, for this is not proving anything. It literally isn't. But now I'm going to stand my ground and do it. I don't even care if I lose, because at least I will have gone through with it. I don't give a shit. But like it's not. It's a. It's a football contest. This is not we want to determine who's a better, better. This has nothing to do with betting and this is like. This will lead into another conversation here in one second. But if I won a football contest, I can guarantee you this is the type of person that I am. I'm the worst self-marketer on the planet because I feel shame in marketing myself in certain ways. If I won the Circa Millions, you would not see it in my Twitter profile because there's so much fucking luck involved. You know Flupno lied. 

01:53:42
Chris Dierkis won the Circa Survivoror. I fucking love when Elf intros him on the spaces where he's like yo yo, yo, yo, guys quiet. We got a guy in here that won the Circus Survivor. We gotta let him talk or whatever. I always joke about this with Chris on the side. Chris is like you know why we won? I'm like why. He's like we got lucky, like we did some things that gave us an edge, but at the end of the day it was luck. And like he's very cognizant and like fez is going back to like these contest wins when, like, I'm like this, I can't, I can't handle it, I it's just like it's the whole package just bothers me so much yeah, no, I'm with you. 

01:54:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
The contest thing to me is nonsense. Like if you can beat nfl late in the week you should make a shit ton of money doing that. The contests would essentially be irrelevant. Um, and yeah, winning is mostly luck. Well, like it's just. It's just an extremely, extremely lucky contest. So, yeah, you could for sure lose. I'd probably put you on a small edge, but, like it's so much fucking luck, it's a dumb thing. But yeah, he's insanely annoying. And to go at Judah, like flopping Judah, like those guys I know very well, like Judah's an amazing, better, yeah, like to even Judah's a high variance better. 

01:55:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Not everyone sees things that Judah takes shots and like that, but he's a very but like, just go talk to him, like deal with it in him directly. Like if you have a problem with someone, deal with them. Um, you know, like, anyways, it's just, it's been brewing for a long time and it finally came to a head. So if people want to understand that like, yes, I was trying, I was trying to bury the guy because I was fucking sick of this shit. The 100K contest. 

01:55:30
I regret it, not because of the amount of money, because I don't even want to. Like I know now I have to deal with this next. I don't want to. I didn't even want to do contests. I've now forced myself into this situation and if I don't do it, I'm backtracked. I don't want, literally do I don't do it, I'm backtracked. I don't want, literally do not want to do it. We circa millions is five picks a week. 18 weeks, that's 90 picks. Okay, honestly, 35 to 40 of those picks are going to be, for both of us, the most stale lines of the week. So we are now have a 100k challenge on 50 plays which we are picking on on a Saturday. Nfl like it's gotten to that point where I just I completely lost it. 

01:56:14 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I lost my cool, simple as that yeah, fez, come on for circles off part two. I don't know if Rob actually wants that, but I do. I'll happily be part of the interview. Let's run it back. I would. I would do that let's do it maybe. 

01:56:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Maybe that's what we need to do, maybe we just need to air it out in public absolutely give each other the opportunity. 

01:56:34
Let's if, as if you're willing to do that, let's do that, let's, let's do that because it's better than what's been going on. Where I thought I wake up and like I got 60 text messages about like Judah and these guys and like I don't even know what he's talking about. With half of these things, I I don't even. I don't even know how to deal with that anymore. Um, now in the crossfire was uh, kelly in Vegas and Farley Betts, because when I talked to when Fezzik went back on like promoting his contest record, uh, I made a comment about how, like any anyone can win a contest, a literally anyone. If you actually just go back and look at all the people who've won like Westgate super contest, circa millions over the years, and you see multiple years worth of records. A lot of them are in and around 500. A lot of those have parlayed their careers, the wins, into like a successful tout career. You know, I meant it. I meant what I said. Anyone can win a contest, but I did throw Farley's name out there and Kelly in Vegas and I did not tag them and I will say I didn't think about it at the time. It was not a way to elude them seeing it or anything. But I am going to make a more conscious effort to actually tag people, because I do think that if you're going to say something about somebody, it is important you back it up. So I do apologize, but anyways, farley did see this and I'm going to read his full tweet. Bear with me here. It's long, but I want to read the full thing. 

01:58:11
Farley Betts says Looks like Rob Pizzola had my name in his mouth and on his keyboard lately, apparently hoping I wouldn't see it. Didn't tag me Nice and discreet. That's too bad, rob. But now that we're here, rob hired me for the Hammer Network a few years ago. I met him in Vegas afterwards. I've never experienced a weaker, more disingenuous handshake in my life. The guy softly engaged for a half second, then looked the other way. I found it very disrespectful and cold, the kind of exchange that signals strong jealousy or insecurity and certainly a lack of awareness. 

01:58:50
Anyone can win contests, says rob, and then he cites me as the first example. Firstly, contests are extremely hard to win, which is probably why rob hasn't come close. So you'll see him. I'm terrible. Proselytize about things like market timing etc. As if they're incredibly complex topics that no one can understand but him and his lackeys. Rob lives for pontification. Talking down to and judging others yet another sign of supreme insecurity. Talking down to and judging others yet another sign of supreme insecurity. Also, fezzik Sports will annihilate you in a contest. Can't wait to see that. Bobby Boy also doesn't like that. 

01:59:34
I don't use BetStamp to verify my wins. The truth is, I don't use BetStamp because when I was first in the industry, I had many guys tell me that I must use BetStamp to verify my records. I don't like doing anything that people tell me I must do, and that is not the only mechanism. If you've followed me and my career in this industry the past five years, I've documented everything with 100% transparency, just like my NFL records this season 55% ATS plus 30 units. In the two main sports I talk about NFL, nba I've won well over 225 combined units the last four years. 

02:00:14
I'm sure that bothers guys like Rob who I pay no attention to since I don't subscribe to his methods or anyone's methods, but my own I'm an actual winner. So why the hell would I Finally, rob, please, please, literally begging you, just like I beg so many idiots on here who act tough and confident via this app. If we're ever in Vegas at the same time, come and say hi, hopefully in a place where there are no cameras or crowds, and say these things directly to me with your chest and oh, oh, and shake my hand like a man. I bet you won't. So that's the full response from Farley and I gotta tell you, in all sincerity, my first reaction to reading that I laughed for a very long time. 

02:01:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I there's no exaggeration. The handshake stuff like he's fucking hanged him or something. 

02:01:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I laughed so hard, and that was the original reaction. There's so many points that I can address in here. First of all, it's long, it's well thought out. He made his points, he wrote what he wanted to write. In regards to a lot of this, the handshake comment really got me. I'm not going to lie to you. 

02:01:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Do you recall that handshake, Rob? Do you know it? You shook it firmly, or what? 

02:01:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know, this is like the Bryan Cranston Breaking Bad. Like you got me. Like I don't prioritize my handshakes. I never have. I'm bad with many things. Okay, when I meet and interact with someone for the first time, I almost never remember their name. I almost completely gloss over their name and I have to ask them again later on and I go up and I'd be like listen, I'm actually really bad with this, I don't remember names. I do that Hand and I go up and I'd be like listen, I'm actually really bad with this, I don't remember names. I do that Handshake. I cannot say I've ever practiced handshakes. 

02:02:18
Put any thought into Like this is like a full psychological evaluation based off of like he barely looked at me. I don't even remember our first interaction in person. I'll tell you it was probably at Bet Bash, because this is where I see Farley in Vegas usually. In all likelihood it wasn't a solo conversation. I don't know for sure, I can't say, but like I'm around people a lot for these types of interactions. I remember the first time I met like Cleave TA. I do remember that I was like, oh fuck, I should have talked to him a little bit longer. 

02:02:48
I I regret that inter. There's certain interactions I regret, but like I'm like, holy fuck, he felt really disrespected by this thing. That's never been like it's, I never even thought of so. Like apologies, but you're, like you, talking about me being insecure. I, I don't even know, I didn't even know. Like I'm still in awe that this is, this is public. Like I am, I, I like guys tell me I don't, I don't even care, like if I'm completely off base here. But like we're talking about meeting someone in your introduction, like I don't judge people off of my introduction, the first time I met, first time I met Jacob, he was incredibly nervous. I noticed that. You remember that. 

02:03:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I do remember that All right call out. 

02:03:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, I do remember. 

02:03:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He was interviewing me for what would eventually become this role I'm doing right now. 

02:03:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, Fair to be nervous 100%. I didn't use that against him for like all of time and I'm like, well, no, I'm not. You know, Jacob, fuck. He didn't give me a firm handshake Like imagine, you know, a guy comes in for an interview. 

02:03:58 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I probably did, though you probably did, because at school we actually did practice, because I was in a school that had like a sales class that the handshake was a key component. 

02:04:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I wonder if that's it too. Like I suck at sales, I'm like the worst marketer around. So yeah sure, Maybe it was a horrible first impression, but like I don't know what that has to do with anything. 

02:04:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't. So I don't see Farley Betts tweets because I'm blocked by him. I don't know why but probably by association, I guess. No, I don't think so. I probably went at him. Did we talk about him on the show? 

02:04:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yes, yo, absolutely, we talked about him on the show you said he was coming at you on his podcast. Yeah, there is a clip, fuck, I forgot okay, which is clearly right, the fucking rat, the fucking physics school of thought here, do a 10 minute segment on a podcast about me, but literally don't mention my name and then write an entire spiel about say it to my face. 

02:04:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, you know what the fuck are we talking, we all kind of when you went on that rant, we all, including kirk and jeff, were like I don't know if it was specifically directed at you, but it's. This tweet kind of very much supports your claim that I mean here's. 

02:05:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Here's a DM I got after that episode, which was I mean I can't say I'm not going to give the name, but I mean 100%. All of Farley's tweets were directed at you. I knew this before today's podcast. I didn't realize he worked at Hammer. I listened to his podcast too before I heard yours today. He has issues with you, was turned off big time. 

02:05:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's very strange because when he worked for the Hammer, I was the producer for his show. He's a very nice guy. I have, I think, personal against him. 

02:05:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All my interactions with him were extremely positive. I don't know, not the handshake. Yeah, I guess. 

02:05:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Well, I also said you were, uh, you're softly uh engaged for half a second and looked away. I don't know it's very possible. 

02:05:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Listen. I I don't know. I don't remember. I don't remember my first interaction with kirk. I oddly remember you because I I interviewed you. I don't remember the first time I met Jeff. I don't remember the first interaction with most. Maybe that's me, maybe I'm in the minority. I like to think I'm in the majority. 

02:06:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I think we're fixating on the wrong thing here, anyways. 

02:06:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, I want to. I want to. I don't know this guy at all, but I want to go through why this is a tweet of a totally unserious human being. Second paragraph to have a bad handshake with someone and jump to jealousy, insecurity and lack of awareness is just an insane leap. To make that assumption right away. Then he talks about how the contest has no idea. Why contest? Why Rob thinks contests aren't reflective of actual winning bettors. It's not the fact of market timing. It's the fact that, just like you said, there are 90 picks, 40 of them are going to be stale lines. Of course there's strategy to it, but, like the best NFL bettors in the world can enter contests and do poorly in them versus the best NFL bettors in the world, even if, let's say, they have a season where they run poorly, they'll always be beating the line and over a massive sample win versus contests just aren't like that. There's much more luck involved. 

02:07:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Contests reward specific strategies over a limited time frame. Yes, and winning it's still impressive, Like you have to go on a great run to win, yeah, but it doesn't necessarily mean sustainable long-term betting success what changes your words? 

02:07:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
you, though, because you said anyone can win a contest, which is true, but you're not saying it's not hard to win a contest, which is making it out that you, he's saying, firstly, concerts extremely hard to win. I don't think you deny that, but anyone, anyone can do it. 

02:07:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you think I'm going to tell I'm going to state something here that I don't, I don't even tell people this. Okay, I actually don't even want to state it, but I'm just going to state it. I have cashed in a contest before. Okay, I don't publicly say so because I didn't make the picks, Somebody else did. I've cashed in a contest, okay, so like, but I'm not going to ever victory lap that I could easily do. That I could. It doesn't matter, it wasn't my own stuff, the Farley stuff here. You know where he finished fourth in the circle and Farley's had a falling out with the person that he cashed with in fourth. I will never know the story behind that, but so many people reached out to me about Farley at that time that said, hey, Rob, guess what? Farley was an NBA guy at that time. He wasn't even making the picks when they finished fourth. You can rebut that if you want to Farley, Totally fine. I know you've had a falling out with that guy. He's since left Twitter. I can't contact him. 

02:08:43
There was many people who met you when you went to cash that check where you claimed that you weren't even making. You're like, I'm not the guy you know. Talk to this guy. I think his name's Steve. He was the one doing all the. So let's like fucking stop this heinous bullshit of, like I'm the best better. I've cashed two times. You went 19 and one in a quarterly this year. Your record still finished behind like not with a great record, and you go 19-1 in a four-week span and you don't cash in a contest, Like anyways. I'm now hyper fixated on the wrong things here, but the whole point for me is contest success. Too many people wrap this up with betting success. They are not the same thing. I am a very good bettor. I make my living betting the contest. 

02:09:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I just try to hit it big is really what I'm doing, but it's like I think it's objective that contests are a skill game that you absolutely can get some edge in. But to equate contests and betting like betting is just a thousand x more challenging of a game, a better, a game where you can win more money, where you can generate more EV. So, like to me, contests are pretty irrelevant. Then, just just to finish off, why it's an unserious tweet, also at Fezzik Sports will annihilate you in a contest. Can't wait to see that again. Just a ludicrous point, because even if rob actually sucks in contests and fezik is great, there's just no way that he's definitely going to annihilate him. There's way too much luck involved there's just no probabilistically exactly like we. 

02:10:19
I said earlier on the con, earlier on the podcast, you're a small favorite. That's what I would make you at like, probably like minus, like 110 to plus 110. Yeah, maybe minus 115, like even, and I think you're a good better. I don't really have much respect for physic, it's just so much randomness. And then the last point I'll say is to say when I was first in the industry, many guys tell me that I must use bet stamp to verify my records. I don't like doing anything that people tell me I must do. That is just such a stupid take. And people who think this you're a sheep, because it just means that if a lot of people tell you to do something, you're going to do the opposite. It's the exact same thing. You're just being a sheep in the opposite direction. It is the dumbest take ever and I hate it when people say that. 

02:11:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, so I will say when we've so. Farley's show was called Totals Redemption. Total Redemption, yeah, Total Redemption yes, where he was giving out NFL totals at the time. Yeah, okay, and we did that, I think, for one season or so. 

02:11:24 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Less than that. Yeah, I'd be surprised if it got past six weeks. 

02:11:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That was when I was like I was not the CEO in the infancy of it. I was building the talent with Matt Landis. I think at that time, and Moreto- yeah, we stretched ourselves way too thin. 

02:11:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yes so we consolidated a lot. We focused on specific shows. This was just one that happened to be cut. It was nothing against Farley. The show is doing well quite honestly, we had a great conversation. Record-wise the show is doing well. 

02:11:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it probably still exists. 

02:11:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Honestly, we never, we didn't delete it, so the Best Stand page would still exist Total. 

02:12:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The Best Stand point was that when I did take over not even when I took over before I was even the CEO of it the whole notion was like we have to be this transparent network. That's where we're going to be. No one else is tracking their picks everywhere publicly. So, yeah, we were like we want the creators to use BetStamp. Now there's other stuff involved in this. Like, betstamp is a sister company to the Hammer, in that the ownership is pretty similar. They're just separate companies. But, like Johnny owns Betstamp and the Hammer, julian, who's the CTO of Betstamp, owns a piece in the Hammer. Some outside investors own pieces in both. 

02:12:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, I have the record here, so it's total underscore redemption yeah, nine and five. Okay, so yeah. 

02:12:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No but it was like one pick a show or two, but it wasn't like he got like because the show was bad. 

02:12:56 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It wasn't getting views. 

02:12:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, we had to consolidate to the shows that were getting views because we were spread too thin. Not a personal shot. It just wasn't doing well, but the whole point was we wanted people to track on BetStamp. 

02:13:06
And everyone did for a period of time because that was what it was fair to do. Now it was only about what you're giving out on air. If you're a pro bettor, you make your livelihood from betting and you're doing stuff for us. I don't expect you to share every single play, but if you give something out on air, we have to have a place where people can go to see that. And that was the, I think, the bet stamp. Unless he's referring to other people who were telling him you got to use bet stamp, which honestly kind of makes me proud that other people would go out there and be like, yeah, you should be tracking on bet stamp as well. 

02:13:38
The biggest thing for me, kirk, about this entire thing, was when he calls me an insecure person. Okay, um, because I am very much self-aware, unlike a lot of other people in this space. I know I do a lot of self-reflection. I'm not perfect. I have many bad qualities. Um, I can be instinctual, I can be arrogant, self-deprecating. I can do a lot of things. 

02:14:07
Insecurity is not what to do, what I do. I'm actually the opposite of insecure. I'm very secure and comfortable in what I do. I did a 45 minute episode of Circles Off where I basically laid out like my entire life as it is in an episode. Okay, insecure people don't do that. I don't block people on Twitter. I let people respond to me. I go back and forth with them, I engage. I show up in Twitter spaces, I engage. 

02:14:33
These are not signs of insecurity. A sign of insecurity is tweeting something like this and then hiding all of the negative replies. That, to me, is a sign of insecurity. That is you projecting your insecurity on me. I would never do that. I do not hide replies, period. People can say what they want to say on the internet. For you to go and hide negative replies I know this because Flup no lied. Chris Dierkis has something that responded that I can't see. It's hidden. It's a conversation that's hidden. That, to me, is insecure. This whole message reeks of insecurity to me. Honestly, I'll tell you what's also insecure Reaching out to people privately via DMs afterwards telling them your whole life story and how you're in the right and this, and that All these things reek of insecurity. Do not project that on me. I am not insecure In terms of the end here of like this is another people act like. 

02:15:29
I've never said this to others. I sat right next to Darren Rovell. I've had this conversation with him before. I've talked to so many people in Vegas on an annual basis where I deal with these things directly with them. We've had private conversations. Sometimes we hash it out and we leave, walk away and be like you know what, respect you for having this conversation. Let's move on. Sometimes they go nowhere and it's just like. What are we doing here? Like, let's move on. 

02:16:00
Okay, this invitation to like meet in Vegas without cameras or crowds. I'll just say this Like, we're not in fucking high school here. All right, the industry is competitive enough without needing to like resort to threats or this ridiculous tough guy act. Like. I know you were in the military, but you will beat the shit out of me. Of course, that doesn't mean I wouldn't say this stuff to your face, but like, we can address these things professionally like adults. I don't I. This whole rant is. I mean, it was obviously very off-putting, but I found it laughable, honestly. Like, always ending with like oh, say that to my face or whatever. Yeah, okay, like, but what am I to expect in return? Like, you disagree with me and you punch me in the face? Like, but what am I to expect in return. Like you disagree with me and you punch me in the face, yeah, he's going to assault you. 

02:16:51
What are we doing here? So, of all the things I dealt with this week, fezzik, man of the Library, flu game, flu game this one, to me, was the most distasteful of the entire bunch, because I think it's just like nowhere near came nowhere near to like making the points that I think he wanted to make. Now, obviously, that's my biased perspective. People are messaging me. They're like hey, farley said this. Like why aren't you responding to him? I'm like because, no, like, nobody's seen this. Nobody actually saw this tweet till Fezzik actually quote tweeted it. Okay, there was literally less than a thousand views. No one saw it. 

02:17:30
I was, it's Super Bowl Sunday. What do you think I'm gonna do? I'm gonna sit there and just like meticulously go back and forth. No, I'm gonna use my platform. I'm gonna give my side of things. He can use his, give his side of things. That's fine, we disagree. If I see him in person, we can talk about it, we can hash it out. If he punches me in the face, sure, I mean I'm going to get charged with assault, but sure, have your way, ko me. This is what we're doing as adults now. Fine, that's it. I think that's all I can really say. 

02:17:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Well, he claims to be a winning better in the post. Do you disagree, agree or disagree here? Because that's like what he's saying here, because you're suggesting winning a contest would mean you're winning better. Do you think he's not a winning better? 

02:18:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know. Okay, so let's just say this I don't keep tabs on what Farley's doing. I don't, I don't. Does he sell picks? He does. I don't buy the picks. I mean, I know that his justification for selling picks is that this is the justification in DMs he sent is that he sells for $50 and there's people who sell for way more. But he's actually a winning better. So people will find him and buy his picks and they'll actually have a chance to win. Whatever, I don't want to get into like is he a or is he not? It's actually, to me, irrelevant to the entire conversation. It is I. 

02:18:53
I do know that the last time we did bring him up on this show, I made a commentary about how he had pro better in his profile on Twitter, when I do know that he holds down a full-time job. He's since removed that from his profile. It's not in there anymore. It was at the time. I don't like the artistry, let's call it, but the records I can't dispute the records. I mean what he says is going to go because he's tracking on like a Google spreadsheet or whatever. I don't. To me, that's not the crux of the argument. But once somebody calls me insecure, call me a lot of things, asshole. Sure, I'll take it, I'll accept it. There's lots of things. This is an insecure message, not me, and I think that's all I can say. I'll leave it at that. I can't do a mic drop because it's here. I'll do the pen drop or sharpie drop or whatever, and we can end on that this week. I know a lot about me this week. 

02:19:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I like it when this is personal. 

02:20:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't. 

02:20:02
I find it tiresome the first episodes are a lot longer, but I do insert myself into a lot of it, so I get it tiresome. The first episodes are a lot longer, but I do insert myself into a lot of it, so I get it. I totally understand that. But anyways, next week we have someone making their debut here on Circleback. You're going to want to set notifications, you're going to want to be subscribed, because next week it's going to be an episode. It's going to be an episode. I think you will enjoy it. Smash that thumbs up down below. 

02:20:33
Of course, use that hashtag Circle back on Twitter. I do see them all. I try to include as many as possible. Less topics this week because less happened and, let's just say, the hashtag skewed heavily towards certain conversations. I wanted to do Spanky versus Rass, but Spanky didn't show up to the spaces. He was away. It didn't really turn into anything that is worthwhile in terms of discussion, but we'll get as many of those in there going forward. And, of course, check out our show sponsor Underdog as well. If you haven't tried them yet, use code CIRCLES. We don't get any cut of losses or anything like that. They're just a great sponsor for us. They're a really fun game, so check them out, if you can, for basketball season, baseball season or hockey season. Peace out, everyone. See you back here next week on Circle Back.