00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. 

00:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions it's circle back, episode number 15, presented by underdog right here on circles off. I'm joined by kirk evans, jeff feinberg, jacob the giant grimania, producing today. It's certainly been a week. This is the show where we discuss the week that was in gambling Twitter, and there were a lot of topics to go through. We're going to start it off here with Joey Knish, fellow content creator here at the Hammer Betting Network. You can find him over at the Hit the Books YouTube channel. His tweet says seen multiple tweets tagging Benson. That's Jeff Benson in a circa bad alternate line play on an NFL playoff game. Instead of hammering the 500% edge at a book that won't ban taking huge limits, you logged into Twitter tag Benson for clout. No monies, stick to flip, you fucking losers. And there's multiple screenshots. There was multiple people that were guilty of this. I say guilty, we'll just determine whether guilty or not. Commanders plus 17.5, plus 225 at Circa. That came from ex-college dropout bets which, by the way, I never realized that handle until now, from Skeet Harris as well, posted the screenshot tagged Jeff Benson on Twitter. Now this story has many, many layers because it really evolved. And in comes brett finesod at nba green beans on twitter. Uh, he says yeah, man benson would have zero clue about that airline if it weren't for twitter. Another edge bites the dust. I guessing face emoji three times. 

02:25
I know nothing about Brett, but this is where things really started to blow up. Him and Kanish are beefing on Twitter. They're going back and forth. Brett apparently has a friend. One of the earliest episodes we did here on Circles Off, circle Back excuse me was that Bet 105 issue where that guy claimed he was getting stiffed. Apparently he's close with brett and um brett's telling you know, kanish, not to promote that site and things of that nature. They're going back and forth. My dms are flooding with people who are telling me about brett, the people he associates with. I don't really want to get into that so much necessarily, but there's been some accusations that he has been connected to sites that have rugged their users in the past, took the money and ran and Kanish spent hours and hours. 

03:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Some tweets got deleted, but some did. 

03:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, the one on screen there is no longer available, but Kanish put the puzzle together for everyone. One thing that I do admire about Kanish is actually how petty he can be at times. He was not going to let this go. Agreed, he was absolutely not going to let this go. And that's just another layer to the entire story. And then the sharp sports betting guys got involved at this as well and they, you know, were enjoying the back and forth. Sb influencer says this brett vineside joey story is great. Uh, shipper and digs are you know they're not in support of knish here. Digs, the venn diagram of people who are like oh my god, have to bet it and people who think 2k is a huge limit is a circle kind. Kind of funny Shipper. I'm kind of surprised the ratio of support for blasting one of the only books who do things the right way. He's referring to taking big bets, not limiting people when they hang a clearly flipped price Can understand taking your shot at soft books, but figured, most people would be against hitting circa. 

04:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Maybe I am a soy boy lip cock, okay, so let's parse through a lot of this, he's got some of those qualities Maybe not on this issue, but You're saying Shipper's a soy boy Libcock. He called himself that he did, and you're saying that he just I'm saying like on the totality of Shipper, I could probably confirm that this is an interesting one. 

04:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Firstly, you just bet it, you don't have to talk about it. Well, that's what I was gonna, that's what I was gonna ask you, and then you tell your friends with circa accounts to bet it. 

04:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But like putting it out there, I think, is that would be like tag and then tagging benson on it. Sure he'd see it Eventually. The screens are going to light up but someone like a there's a reason, there's a fire alarm, yeah, like there's a warning, like eventually you would know you're in a fucking fire. Yeah, you don't have, but you know, so I don't know why. Alerting, alerting Benson seems pretty. That'd be like skipping school smoking, tagging the principal with a picture from the back of the school parking lot during class, instead of just smoking and skipping class. 

05:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I agree with you. Well, that's Kanishk's whole point, right? It's like, what are we doing here nowadays? The problem is that I find that Kanishk only thinks about. It's not just him. I don't want to single him out. All of us can be guilty of this at times. The world is you think about it through the lens of your own perspective. Right, knish is a sports better. He's going to take shots. He sees a bad price. He's going to do whatever he can to get as much money down. That's who he is. That's the lens that he sees sports betting through a lot of these other guys on the internet now, like, I don't know anything about the two guys that tweeted this, but for some, the clout actually is more important because it actually will lead to more money down the road. They don't know. You know there's not everyone in the world doesn't know about Serpa. 

06:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
How much clout can you build off a bad line from a site that is only in like a amount of states? Well, we're talking about it here, so yeah, but like how, like I don't think you can build. What's the limit on this bet? 

06:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
uh, it was 2k at circa at the time. I'll talk about that a little bit further. 

06:35 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There was 2k over the counter at circa I don't know, you're building that like I don't know, marginal yesginal. 

06:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think there's a lot to parse through. I think the worst slide out of all of these is go to the next one, when he says like Benson would have zero clue about this error line if it weren't for Twitter. Yes, that's true. Like Benson actually probably would have no clue about this error line unless it went to Twitter. I think he's completely wrong here. Like another edge bites the dust that's not really an edge, it was just a fat fingered error but like the idea that I don't even really understand what he's trying to say. Like Circa obviously didn't wasn't aware of this line, or they wouldn't have posted it. 

07:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He's saying eventually they'd figure it out. 

07:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But like I said, it's like a fire alarm but, like I said, it's like a fire alarm, but it was up. It was up. It was up for people to bet it was up. It was literally there and it would be up longer, if not for Twitter. 

07:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, that is undeniable, unless someone could have. There are people that have For me as an example. I didn't catch this in real time because I'm not looking at alt prices at. Circa. 

07:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I know where you're going. I might, because I'm in good standing with Circa. You might alert Circa. Yes, you would run to the principal and be like Feinberg and the boys are smoking skipping class in the back. Catch them. There is, I get it. You think? No, I can see why you're doing that. You feel $2,000 limit what is it? Plus 280. There's more for you to gain in the long run by giving Benson this bone than by betting it yourself possibly I would consider it like. 

08:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So what people don't know is in Nevada the rules are different. Right, this, this is a bad line. Once that ticket gets printed, that's it it get. It has to get paid if you win, plain it's. It's not like the sports book can cancel it and say, oh, this is a bad line, bad area. So that plays into it as well, into Canisius thinking of like I want to hit this. Everyone's going to think about it in a different way. Right, I don't bet directly at Circa, but they would see my positions in some way. Maintaining that relationship is more important, but they're not going to limit you 

08:51 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
but they well, they could they could ban you. 

08:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They could ban you just because they're, just because they don't point. I don't think they would point sucks point. 

08:58 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Sucks is bad. 

08:59 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's banned for past posting so it is a thing, but they're not like. 

09:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Comparing them, their tactics to circa, is like no, no, no is a is a guy who was only taking shots at circa when they left lines up after the games had started already and they banned it so circa would ban if you took this shot and your whole account was only taking shots similar. 

09:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But that's where I disagree with Diggs and Shipper here. Kanish wasn't calling these people out, or these people weren't posting this tweet and not taking the line because they were like oh, circa's a really good book to me. I'm not going to take it. That's an entirely defensible position. Or my Circa account's really important to me. I don't want it to get banned. Potentially right. These people are just looking for clout I think that's a fair thing to call out, and that's where I disagree with shipper and dicks. 

09:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You go, you go to this nice mom pa diner and you order this nice meal and they forget to like put something you ordered onto your bill and you feel like a sense of you know what they're good to me. I come here, I agree, I'm going to tell them I don't want to rip these guys off, yeah, but if you go to Cheesecake Factory and they forget something on your bill, you're like not a fucking yeah, get out the door, but I think you're agreeing with them. 

10:30
That's what? No, but I'm saying the sports book isn't mom, yeah, oh, got it, got it, got it. No, I'm, I like jeff, they run a great operation. But if they do that they deserve and I see it before they fix it. I get one up. That's point me like I win. I like fuck this, like do give one for the gipper as a circa. Stevens benson, the whole crew, fantastic. What they've built, amazing. Yes, stayed there last year, incredible, I loved it. I never even been to that part of town before. Right, I know that makes me bougie, but I never stepped foot in that part of town. Now I'd go back there, that's how much I enjoyed my experience. But no, no, no, no, no. Everyone is entitled to hit that, yeah, and should hit it, should hit it. 

11:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What you might do might be different from what Kirk does, might be different from what Jacob does, might be different from me from Kanish. Everyone is entitled to do whatever the hell they want to. If somebody wants to expose an edge online, that's their prerogative. It's fair for other bettors to get upset and be like well, you could have got. But for a lot of these guys we get one of these, multiple of these, every single year. Ok, someone puts a big edge out publicly and the sharp guys and they're like you, idiot, you could have made so much more better. They don't. A lot of these guys don't know, they literally have. It's not even a con, it's like an unconscious they don't know what that they can go and actually make a lot of money off. 

11:54
Somebody might be like well, circa, I can't bet at circa. Circle's not available in every, every us state. I have no idea where these guys are from. Maybe they can't even bet at circa. They don't have runners who can go and bet bet for them at circa. They can't capitalize on that, so they just put it out there because they don't think of the impact on other people. 

12:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That happens all the time I also wouldn't say this is like exposing an edge, like this was just a fat finger. It's not like a sgp glitch. You know where the guy posts the score that you can parlay like every single line at the score and they add it Like. That to me is a totally different category than what happened here. 

12:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But yeah, I don't know. I don't have any. Was that posted publicly before, or do we just know about that stuff? 

12:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Oh, I don't know, I think, I think these fingers are fat, this thigh is fat. 

12:38 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You know in those Blackberry days how many like fat thigh phone calls. 

12:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh yeah, how many like fat thigh phone calls oh yeah big time. 

12:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Oh, the worst matter, just okay, you're making me feel better don't worry about that everybody. 

12:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, no, I this boat like if the book. I'm like this a goddamn casino. Yeah, we're talking about a goddamn casino well, I I'm with you now listen I, I bent, like I don't know what they like it like. You know, someone simps for a girl. She's not going to blow you. Benson's not going to blow you, shipper. 

13:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's pretty good. So for me, there are advantages to being on the good side of a sportsbook. Let's just put it that way. There are advantages to not going and taking. 

13:24 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Most people don't have those relationships Sure. 

13:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're just people. They're just people. 

13:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's different for every person. You're very specific in this case, Rob, where you feel like this would be a personal insult to Benson 100%. 

13:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I might as well just walk up to him in customer service and spit in his face. 

13:41 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
But you're like a one in 10,000 case For me to do that. After all, we like my and the same with Kanish. 

13:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like it's not. Like Kanish doesn't interact with Benson he needs it. 

13:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Like they need that as part of the equal For 99.9% of people, that's that shouldn't be a factor talking about here's what I will say. 

14:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I just don't think benson would care that much benson, benson I got. 

14:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
God depends on how close you are. I got god. You get god. I know it's like a separate issue. Everything is like terms and conditions there. Yes, like you know the year, the bengals or something, we're gonna play one less game and they didn't want to like pay out winners who already had the number. That's the only time I've ever like really disagreed with benson, but they're gonna go by. The fuck, like people can. 

14:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, like it, it's your turn, hit it yep, what I will say about the digs comment uh, the 2k it's. A 2k limit at the sports book is actually not how much you can get down on something like that. I'm not going to give the secrets of like how, how to expose every single sports books in these types of situations, but there are kiosks. Uh, lots of times the kiosks will have a limit on them. Some of them have referred a trader, some of them do not. There's, there's opportunities where you can get way more than the 2k limit in this particular instance. 

14:58 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So I will say it's and if you uh, you know, if you know your boy like hunter, you just go on the graveyard shift or you just throw on a mask and they won't even ask a question. Oh, you start wobbling around, forgetting how much money the whole time you just go to. 

15:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Circa. You put on a mask, you act like you're hammered and you're like hey, can I get $2,000 on this? Actually, can I get $10,000 on this prop? 

15:21 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
And they may accept it. 

15:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's the way the professionals do it. Now, thousand on this prop. Oh, I mean, accept it. That's the. That's the way the professionals do it. Um, now jeff brenson did response. Did respond, excuse me, uh. Ben cary posted a a video about betters after hitting the airline at circa, sharing on social media. Jeff said clout chasers, the real winners win in silence. Kirk, you go in and you say very, very much disagree. 

15:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah so me and Jeff actually talked about this in our DMs as well. I just think that there's this perception that clout and winning and betting have nothing to do with each other. But you just said these people might not have any relationships that they could get down at Circa. If people know you and know that you're winning better and have seen your takes and think you're smart, that can really help you get people to move for you and be able to bet more. So like this idea if I had zero Twitter followers and had never spoken on Twitter, I would have made a lot less money betting on sports. So look, obviously, if you're posting just for clout and you're not actually betting, then yeah, whatever, you're a bit of a fraud. But the idea that having people know who you are and know that you're a big winner can't help you is just wrong in my opinion. I'm totally with you. 

16:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There are layers of pro bettors, right, and I'm sure, the people at the top that are betting hundreds of thousands a game. They probably look at this behavior and they're like, ah, like, look at this loser chasing cloud because they're at the top of the food chain. But the reality is, when you're losing outs, you know, when you're you're trying to find other partners. You know, occasionally posting a big winning ticket could be a good move for you. There's yeah, you're chasing clout, but you're also chasing partnerships. 

17:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yes, I think a lot of times. Yes, I mean I could be sort of like talking out of both sides of my mouth, but like I don't think people, like I don't think you owe the people on Twitter anything, Well, I don't Like if you on Twitter, anything Like if you hit a big bet, like fucking show it, post it. 

17:30
Oh, 100% Like, post it. Some people are going to be like what's your long-term record? Or all of this shit. Like I get it. Like I'm not asking you to subscribe, potentially. Or maybe there's other outlets where, outlets where you could find my record if you subscribe, or on my podcast, but on my actual Twitter feed I don't feel I owe you any of that yeah, any of it. 

17:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I will say I think posting winning tickets specifically is much more likely to be square behavior than actual sharp behavior. So I don't think you would get the people interested that you would want. But I agree that like, yeah, you can post whatever you want on Twitter. 

18:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But for me, honestly, when I so, I used to post winning tickets a lot. I was looking for all sorts of partnerships in the space at that time. But if I posted like a winning pinnacle ticket on a PGA tour event where I won like 50 K or something like that, I would get people in my DMS right away saying like how can I work with you this and that? 

18:33
So it was a very clear tactic to get people to reach out to me without actually publicly. You know. There are people who just publicly post hey, like, we're winning a lot of money, we're looking for partners, hop into my DMs. I'm fine with that too. At the end of the day, fucking run your Twitter account however you want to, and if people don't like it, they can unfollow you or mute you or do whatever. Like that's what it comes down to. I'm with you on this one. I mean, the problem is you do get bad. You get bad actors, for sure, and it's hard to differentiate one from another. But anyways, I'm sure there's more we could have got into on that one, and maybe we will down the road because there's the connections to other sports. 

19:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
This is going to happen again. Something like this will happen again. 

19:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was going through like basically we talked about this off air before the show. It's the Always Sunny episode. 

19:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Oh, when you explained to me the fine side and the backstory and the 105, I was looking at you like you're Charlie from. Yeah, it's. 

19:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Always Sunny, Always Sunny on the. I went to see Carol in accounting and guess what? There is no Carol in accounting. Not only do these people exist, they are angry that they are not getting their mail. Charlie exist. 

19:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They are angry that they are not getting their mail. Charlie, oh god, excellent show. Well, it'll be back on the show when knish fully unlocks the conspiracy he's. 

19:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's trying to put the pieces together in his basement. 

19:52 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That's the problem at this twit, like twitter's got those forensic detectives and a lot of sports bettors, despite you know there's a grind to it. Uh, there's also like there's the time to uh to investigate yes, free time there and a lot of them are good at the internet. 

20:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I bet I was getting. I'm not exaggerating, I don't want to share this and I don't want to dox people's names who might might not be connected. I was getting messages about this nba green beans guy that were like, oh, he was partners with this guy and then he dropped him because that guy stiffed him 7k but this guy's charging back at sportsbooks and I'm like what is? And I was getting these from so many people at once. I'm like holy shit, I didn't really read. I've never seen it or interacted with this guy before ever. 

20:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You go in whole new world, all because a bad commander's line was posted. 

20:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
100 that's it, one bad line. There we go. We get a bunch of talking points for uh, our, uh, we, you're a talk show, we're talking our gossip show my. 

20:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
My question is who watches this podcast and thinks I'm the host? 

20:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yeah, but you're co-host, you're like a analyst. What would you be? 

21:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
your well, I'm not the host, it's a co-host. Bambling Twitter analyst, I'd say that you're like co-hosts. 

21:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, co-hosts in a way, I guess so. 

21:08 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
What do? 

21:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
you consider yourself. 

21:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Jeff, well, no. 

21:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Like I don't think I could host because I feel like I'd got off track not get back on track, and the host who is changing the topics? 

21:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, all right. Well, I'm going to change the topic right now. We're going to go to another beef. That happened, but this is a brand beef. It's not personal, it's brand. On brand crime, novig very recently hired a social media guy or girl. It's very clear that they have established a social media presence and they're really coming for the meme. King Kirk Evans over here, this meme got an audible laugh out of me. Types of headaches, migraine, hypertension, stress, and then paying fees on Sportrade and ProfitX where the entire head is red. At that point, the only place you should be trading on is Novig. 

22:08 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm pro Novig socials. 

22:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, agreed. 

22:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Like I like it. Like you said, whoever they hired is doing a good job engaging and getting people engaged and stirring some shit. Whether they're on the right side of it or not, I appreciate them. 

22:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If the ultimate goal is engagement, then they're doing a fine job but what would the goal be? Um, it depends. I mean, at the end of the day, novig is a product and they're reliant on liquidity for for their exchange. So the ultimate goal would be to get people betting on the exchange right. 

22:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That would be the yeah, but you get engagement, you get people to know about sure so but but it's it's. 

22:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Does one lead to another? Would be my question. I will say I I laughed when I saw this. Like I don't audibly laugh, I laughed as I thought about it a little bit more. I'm like it's kind of weird that like for this. If it came from a person, like a personal account, it feels more kosher to me than it coming from a brand. 

23:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Okay, yeah, that's fair. 

23:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's almost like how, you know, we we had a we had a guy back in the day running the bet stamp account. 

23:14 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Okay, that's exactly where my mind went when you said that. 

23:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Where he just turned it at one point and said you know what, like, we're telling people to shop and get the best number and this, and that no one is. We're not getting traction on these tweets. It's time for for us to fire up some real. And he just started going after the bad actors in the space. But he basically ran the brand account like a personal account and it turned a lot of people off yeah people did not like that, so so so so he. 

23:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
So he's probably watching this. The only thing that was problematic about that because I was on the socialist team at the time was the utilization of I as like a singular presence running the account rather than us we. He ran it like I am running this account rather than it's the collective Bedstamp team. 

24:05 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I disagree with you that that was the only thing that was wrong. Well, obviously, but that was one of the. The tweets were insane. 

24:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
No, the tweets were insane. This is different. This is different. 

24:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is definitely different. Yeah, but also my problem with this is like Novig is going to have to charge fees at some point. 

24:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
How else are they going to make money? So, like, it'll be a bit ironic when I imagine that happens. But I like novig and I think this is funny. Yeah, I mean there's, they've had a lot of okay this. They're taking a shot at a brand yes, that is a problem. But when they take like a shot at like 30 touts in a tweet, that's not like, that's okay. We like that well, yes, so I like them both. So, but I can understand why this could lead to longer term well, here's the problem. 

24:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You could. You could easily get this message out onto your socials. Right, you play on our exchange, you don't pay fees, like that's the message, but no, no one's interacting with that. Like some people are going to see it it looks like a promo, whereas you kind of got to do things like this every now and then to to stir it up and people then see the actual message. 

25:15 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's a tough, but if you're also like the I mean I'm just fully assuming like they are the, the clear smaller entity in this 100%. 

25:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're much smaller. This is what you do? 

25:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, they're punching up. 

25:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
This is how they've gotten to sort of gain a little bit of traction. They are the lower end of this thing. They are trying to have the higher end. 

25:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Everyone wants to mimic that old Wendy's social media strategy they used to employ all day after that was the debut of of this change in strategy where it was just roasting everyone else. This like kind of sassy tone almost, but like that's wendy's punching up right because they're trying to compete with mcdonald's. 

25:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So good point, I agree. And then I think this next tweet yeah, was a next tweet is another good one. There's a good jab jab. There's a good back and forth. I agree, alex. 

26:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Kane is the CEO of Sportrade. I believe he's one of the founders, maybe solo founder, co-founder, I'm not sure, but co-founder, ceo of Sportrade. I like Alex, he's a good guy. He basically jabbed back by just posting a tweet with images. He basically jabbed back by just posting a tweet with images, and one of them is an image at Sportrade where you could get $10,000 on Commanders plus 405. And then posted an image of Novig where he tried to put in $10,000 as an order and it said the max order was $856.08. 

26:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
At plus $3.37. At plus $3.37. So a much worse line. Yeah, it's a great tweet, it's a great tweet. 

26:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's how you defend your brand. 

26:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
No text in this tweet, by the way, just screenshots, and that's how you do it. 

26:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's how you do it, and that's how you do it. 

26:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It is like the mic drop of tweets basically. 

27:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's like you. I don't think Novik could handle one of. Would take one of Rufus' no bets. 

27:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Unlike an outright golfer. No Well, it's not. It's just market makers. They're not the ones who are. 

27:14 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm saying like, but I mean yes, but I mean the operation. Like Rufus, could he fill a? 

27:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
bet on that at Novik? 

27:21 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, probably not, you know like I see Rufus betting Yep or trading Right over whatever. Fill a bet on that at Novig? Yeah, probably not. You know like I see Rufus betting Yep or trading. 

27:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Trading, sure, right over, whatever, all the time. 

27:29 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But yeah, great response by Alex. Normally you would almost argue it's an automatic win for Novig just by being, like, responded to by the biggest fish, but it's a pretty big mic drop. Well, I asked. 

27:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Dean from ProfitX when he was on Circles Off a couple months ago about whether there was ever any consideration to the exchanges banding together and coming up with some sort of mass marketing of. Here's why exchanges are good and I haven't mentioned this a long time in Circles Off, but I'll mention here on Circle Back, For those that don't know. I consulted for sportsbooks in the in the offshore industry. Where's the board? For a few years we don't have the board. 

28:12
Technically I can't reset, can't reset the board to zero but, um, I will say like that, that was conversations that we used to have in the offshore space. When it came to crypto, it was like we all want players to deposit with crypto because it's a way cheaper transaction for the sports book relative to credit card and and other methods. Should we do like some sort of joint campaign about the benefits of of crypto and um? I always wondered how this, like all these exchanges getting into market, was going to play out and whether there was going to be inevitably something like this where it seems like they're gonna go head to head, or whether it's going to be a collective effort to try to grow the exchange um model altogether I mean like yes, they're going head to head, but they're it's like when those like indie shit takes shots at like wwe, yeah, like that's like what you do, yeah right, you try it, but I don't like right now they're kind of not playing the same sport yeah, sort of one's definitely bigger than the other. 

29:16
It doesn't, I like? 

29:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
novig yeah, we are, I like novig social we're probably going to do exactly what you described later on in this show. Take on the big guns try to get a reaction? 

29:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
oh, maybe possibly I don't know that it'll be intentional. I just speak the truth, my honest opinions, my honest opinions. Today's episode of Circles Off is brought to you by Underdog. The best way to add some excitement to your sports viewing experience Now. Whether you're into season-long best ball drafts or pick-em contests, or even daily drafts, underdog has something for every type of sports fan. Their platform is clean, it's easy to use and it gives you a chance to compete for big prizes while making your game nights even more interesting. And that's something, personally, that I like to do, even as a professional sports better. Every now and then, I like to dig in, like to play some contests to win myself some big money. Make sure you check out Underdog and when you do sign up using promo code CIRCLES, underdog will match your first deposit up to a hundred bucks. That's free money to get you started. You can check them out by using the link down in the description below and, of course, use promo code circles. Back to the show. 

30:34
All right, our third topic for today comes via one tweet from the space Uh Jared at Jared Lee Smith is his Twitter handle. He is a content creator for Fox Sports, betql and BetUS and he tweeted this week. I think there are two types of sports betting people on this app. Number one those who analyze markets and create content. Number two those who analyze the people who analyze markets and create content. Path two those who analyze the people who analyze markets and create content. Path number two is clouded with anger, jealousy and negative energy. Be number one, kirk. 

31:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You informed me before the show that you think that this might have something to do with interactions you've had with Jared Well, Jared Smith this week called me the worst interactions you've had with Jared Well, Jared Smith this week called me the worst. I don't know if it was the worst person on gambling Twitter or what is wrong with the gambling space. I missed that. So I believe that, yes, this has at least some route to me. 

31:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I confirm the exact and last week Rob felt that Farley was 100% tweet. 

31:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like people are like oh, in the comments, like it's insane that Rob thinks that thisley was 100 tweet. Like people are like oh, in the comments, like it's insane that rob thinks that this he was definitely tweeting about. Let's, let's call it out for what it is. 

31:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He definitely was tweeting about me I love that the farley name comes up and rob just gets energized. 

31:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But it was like I, I'm not stupid, you know like you, you just know, sometimes inherently, you know, and did you get? 

32:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't at all. You, you know. And did you get? Did you reach out at all? You know no. 

32:04
No, nothing, no reach out, sorry you're, but but yeah, and you mentioned this pre-show as well it's funny that in Jared Smith's mind, there's two types of people in the sports betting ecosystem and neither of them are betting on sports, which is the whole point of it all. But yeah, I totally disagree with this. I think calling what Jared Smith does analyzing markets is insane, and I think that he is mostly just a content creator and even kind of calling them in the sports betting spaces is generous. 

32:41 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The space, the ecosystem. Ecosystem, as we say here. I like to say it's too fucking big for not, for there not to be number two well, but but the ecosystem jeff and this oversimplifies the ecosystem. 

32:55
Wait, like there's no categories of like a. I don't believe like okay, obviously sometimes I'm sure it comes from jealousy. I don't believe it's always or often jealousy. I don't. I believe people, just you know they have opinions. You give people puzzle pieces into your approach or into your life and you know, through the internet and people can, you know, make conclusions or try to connect the dots and then have opinions. And as for the negative energy, I don't know that it's negative energy so much as like a, a mean-spirited, like we're in a lot like I don't want to steal from it, but like locker room vibe, like like I I don't know you're going to say do something stupid, like people are going to call you out on that. 

33:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Is that negative energy and jealousy? 

33:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't think that's fair to say, that's negative energy and jealousy, because I completely agree with you. 

33:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Holding other people accountable to me is not necessarily jealousy or negative energy. Like if you saw someone like standing outside of the I don't know pick a random place um, you know the gas station and they're changing out the debit card or visa card machine to run some sort of scam or some. You would be like calling them out on it publicly is not negative energy or jealousy. Like I get infuriated in the space with the bad actors. And and to me, holding people accountable makes for a better ecosystem than just letting everyone fucking do whatever the hell they want to do. And, by the way, I'm not. This is not a commentary on jared as a person. I don't know jared we I maybe we've had interactions. It's not him specifically, it's. I'm talking about the ecosystem as a whole yeah, that's me. 

34:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He's the one I think that is specific. Well, I couldn't go, so he said. 

34:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
By the way, he said kirk, uh, I genuinely think you represent everything that is wrong with the sports betting space. Keep spreading that negative energy, which again. 

34:58 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I responded to if you're good at what you're doing and making fucking money like who cares like and someone's making fun of you on the fucking internet, but you're like killing it and you're winning your bets like gives a shit. 

35:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, also that, yes, exactly that's my point, even like it doesn't even have to be bad actors to me, but I agree with everything you said to me. It's more so. It's this weird logic in people's heads that I just cannot understand of. I'm gonna post my opinion on this app where it's literally posting opinions and people you know disagree or agree with my opinion, and then people post their opinions and then people disagree and it's like, oh my god, this person's so mean. Like, obviously, when I respond to people, yeah, am I abrasive? Sure, but you're posting your opinion. Same thing that happened with plus ev, but you're posting your opinion. Same thing that happened with Plus EV this week. You're posting your opinion. I'm disagreeing, like why People I've posted the dumbest shit on Twitter, the dumbest shit? Shipper's called me an idiot, diggs has called? 

35:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
me an idiot. When you first got onto the Twitter scene you were viewed as like the village idiot. You came in and caused like such a shit storm amongst the sharp community that people were just like messaging me on the side. Who the fuck is this kirk evans guy? I'm like I honestly have no idea. I never talked to the guy before, but that was you. 

36:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But when I post something and it's dumb, okay fine, maybe I'm, I'm a human, I'm, maybe I'm defensive right away, but I can see, okay, people are calling me an idiot. Why are people people calling me an idiot? Now, people who have thought I was the dumbest person in the world? Like you said, I consider friends. I would message for advice, like I don't see why people take things so personally when you disagree. Like the disagreement I had with Jared Smith was he posted that a CNN article that said red meat caused dementia was worse than any CCP propaganda. Like, yes, I disagree with that take. I posted that it was an insane take. It doesn't mean that I think Jared's a horrible person, I just disagree with the take. I don't see why people have to get so mad about it. 

36:56 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I mean, I could tell from a few and I've got buddies like this, like they're just in a fucking bubble and it's not even a knock on Jared. He posted buddies like this, like they're just in a fucking bubble and it's not even a knock on jared. He posted a tweet this week about like why don't all the tiktok influencers just like team up and buy tiktok? Yeah, like that is just that's not. Like he is in a sports gambling, a sports, his bubble of, of sports and betting, and that's like not even a knock. 

37:19
I've got some of my best friends who are in a fucking bubble but like to not sort of know. The other side of that is like fucking Chinese government's not selling TikTok to fucking anybody, sure. As for this, so this tweet bothers me because I'm not here to glad hand good guy culture, yeah, and according to this tweet, I have to show, I have to like glad hand someone who's pretending to do research, giving pics that's in a, in a on a walk, and I've got to like glad hand that person. Like they sell insurance, like no, no fucking chance it is actually no chance problem with. 

37:54
So that is, that is. Um, like you said, there's like, the space is too big, is a very he's like, is a very simplistic way to put it, but there's no way. Uh, I'm not like and I say dumb things too. People call me out on twitter when, when I get called it, when, when my number, when the internet calls my number to take a beating I've taken that beating before. I will take it again. But there's no fucking way that that, when people's numbers are up for tweeting the dumbest shit, that we're supposed to just clap because they're creating content. 

38:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's no industry on planet Earth where there are more unqualified people talking about or being branded as experts or analysts than there is in the sports betting space. It's one thing. You know they're. They're by the way, so like I won't turn this all into. It's been a very negative segment. But I there's people I like in the space that are not winning bettors. Jeff, you're one of them. Dgen weekly I talk about that guy all the time we had him on one of our live watch alongs. 

39:00
I really like that guy. He's great. He's just like fuck, I want to bet. I I'm not an expert. Here's the research I'm doing. He has some like that to me is great. It's sorely. But it's the amount of people that are branded as experts. They're not winning betters. There's no, there's no qualifications in this space. So I think it's fair to keep people honest in the space. I I think that sure, it's clouded with negative energy. You know why it's clouded with negative energy? Because most of the people in the space are pretenders. There's nothing, even in here, like I think there are two types of sports betting people on this app. Both of these are centered around content. There's there's sports bettors no mention about. 

39:37
Yeah, there's actually people who bet you know this is centered around content those who analyze markets and create content. Those who analyze the people who analyze markets and create content. Those who analyze the people who analyze markets. What is wrong with that? We're in a content business. I watch other content in the space. If I see someone pretending there's something they're not, why should I have to just sit on it? It's not because I'm jealous. It's because there's, like I don't know, like an ethical, moral type of thing in the space as well. 

40:03 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's big enough now where it's worthy of being analyzed and the people talking about it it's not fucking Hollywood, it's not TMZ, but it is now so big and the internet discourse around it is so consistent that talking about the people who talk about the markets is absolutely warranted. I will die. I will die on that hill also. I do a good job of it at my myself because I am self-deprecating. I feel like we've crossed a line here on this show where, like I am a at least I think I am a much better, better than I'm being perceived oh, I'll hear you out. 

40:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Man well, I listen. I know, you know I was okay, I still bet early in the week. 

40:57 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That helped a lot, like I'm not making my football bets on Sunday morning. That being said, I will still bet a game for an outcome that I want. Okay. 

41:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Like in the playoffs. 

41:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
As will. 

41:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I, when there's only like four games on and I don't have an opinion and this game could go either way, I have no issue betting on the result I want to see, but I also know I'm doing that. I don't think I'm like yeah. 

41:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're also not like Kirk, where you're clouded with anger, jealousy and negative energy either. 

41:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm definitely clouded with anger and negative energy. There's no doubt about that. Jealousy, not so? 

41:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
much I dug into the timing of this tweet. 

41:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Oh yeah. 

41:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It'd be quite the shock if this was not directed at Kirk. What it was like 20 minutes after we had a reaction. It was about 40 minutes after he addressed your original. You are a popular guy, man, he said, he just wanted to draw attention for his gossip show, and then, 40 minutes later, this came out. 

41:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, that's another thing I want. I'm going to pivot here. It's not in the rundown or anything like that. There's a lot of accusation. You can speak on your behalf. I'm going to speak on my behalf. 

42:05
When it regards to this, people are like oh, here goes rob tweeting up a storm so he can talk about it on circle back. The most talked about tweet I had this week is not being talked about on the show. I did a tweet that had mill, I think over a million um viewers, which was in relation to people claiming that the chief's game was fixed. Chiefs texans they took the safety at the end. Whatever I mean, I guess I brought it up now, but I'm not tweeting for the sake of using it in the show. 

42:33
I'm tweeting because in my head, in real time, I'm like I want to send out a tweet. It's no different than prior to this show, so that conclusion that people are drawing is absolutely insane. I definitely want to do some more engaging stuff on my twitter account this year, which is why I've leaned into the satire a little bit more christmas day trends, stuff like that but that drives me nuts. It's like oh, now you're going after this guy for your show. It's like no, I'm like, that has nothing to do with it, literally nothing. I'm going after this guy. He's a fucking idiot, that's what I'm going after. 

43:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
A little bit to do with it. 

43:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It doesn't, jeff, it doesn't zero. I'm telling you zero. 

43:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, listen you went after people before the show. 

43:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I like you going it on circle back. That thought has never come into my head a single time. 

43:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't know about you, well, well, that's the funny thing with me is I've I have no influence on what gets on the show and I've messaged you twice about like I think this should be on the show, but like I have very little say I didn't get in one, one this week and one this week that that was the plus EV situation. That isn't in, so it's not really like. I just don't have a say, yeah, that doesn't really cross the line at all. 

43:51 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I would just say path two. I don't think it's anger and jealousy, I think it's just. Like you know, some of us bros got a bit of like a mean spirit. 

44:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I think anger is part of it of like a mean spirit well, I think anger is part of it. Well, I think it's very frustrating. 

44:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Frustration, different than frustration it's like when I see it or when I tweet about it, I'm like you know, obviously like maybe, but it's not like when it's over, like when the phone is like down. 

44:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not something they're like holding on to but there's also an appetite from outside of me, like from other people out there, to bring down the pretenders, because let's say, that's in every walk of life, everyone knows my biggest beef. Okay, like I'll throw it out. Simon hunter, I don't like simon hunter. That's my biggest. That's the guy in the space that rattles me to my core. Okay, if I was to never watch an episode of the favorites again which I'm off of, by the way. 

44:43
Now I'm trying to football season's over yeah, I don't want to listen to these guys break down two games for an hour like what hard-hitting analysis am I going to get? It's not going to happen. But if I don't watch that, do you know how many dms I'm going to get on a weekly basis? Of the carrier, pigeons come to tell you here's the clip, here's I can't even avoid it. 

45:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
And there there is an appetite for other people to either stir shit up, but also I think part of it is rooted in just bringing down the pretenders is what I think well, yeah, it's because these people are being entrusted with people's money, so you feel like they should be held accountable for what they post online, because people they're like people should be able to see through the charade, but some people can't. So you're trying to help convey that message and then, obviously, when you're hurting their ability of visibility, they get upset about it. 

45:32 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, and also, look, obviously engagement is part of it. I like getting engagement on tweets, like I'm not going to lie and say that's not true, but I feel good about it. That's the point of Twitter. Yeah exactly you. And then also the fact that what gets engagement is my favorite thing, which is calling out people who I think are a bit fraudulent. It's a two birds, one stone. 

45:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You be you, kirk, I'm not going to tell you to ready to run your account. 

45:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I followed him. Like tell this guy to shut up. You know, I'm like. 

46:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not. I'm not going to let him run his account the way. I'm not going to ban anyone for doing what you know running their account whatever the way they want. Um. Anyways, I think that was more than enough on on that particular topic. Um, we talked about c blaze a couple weeks ago, trying to figure out exactly who he is. Man of the library uh, had this tweet this week. 

46:23
Now I want to apply some context here. This is rooted in opinion from myself, but man of the library is one of the worst people in the entire space. In my opinion, he is someone who perpetuates the myth that all sports are fixed, that he has some sort of script on all these games. Um, he tracked on bet stamp for like 47 games and then stopped tracking, created a fake um story that I banned him from the platform. We've never banned anyone from using the bet stamp platform. I don't even care about him. He perpetuates that screenshot over and over of you know when he amassed a good record on a 47 game sample size. I think he's everything that's wrong with the space. I would suggest not only you avoid him at all costs. If you see him this right now, just go to your twitter and block him, and you'll be better off in life for not knowing that he exists. I am bringing this up because I did not know you were going this way I agree with you one of one, the worst opinion-based. 

47:26
He has been doing some diligent research on Seabless and he says the Seabless scam is a lot more intricate than I had imagined. Apparently, he has two partners that live with him who are giving opposite picks and selling on the same site. They bet and pick both sides of the game. They lose a few bucks in vig. They ask for comps to make up for it. Meanwhile they're raking in 50 to 75k monthly and building a large following. Sportsbook and vegas are figuring it out and banning them. Meanwhile the moron, jeff benson, is falling for it and comping them five-star meals on their loss fig. 

48:01
So there was also some pictures that he attached, some images which were c blaze making some bets. Here are the bets and then another instagram account releasing the opposite bets and victory lapping that they won. So I don't know that he's proven that there's a connection like that, that these are roommates. I'm just throwing it out there. But there were accompanying issues or, excuse me, images with that Elf who is. I didn't know of this guy a long time ago, but now I regularly check his stuff. 

48:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I like. 

48:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Elf. He wrote like a fucking opus on this situation. His thoughts on the entire situation. He defended Jeff Benson a little bit. 

48:44 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Wait, how does Benson need any defending he doesn't Like? Benson took the bets. He doesn't care what side. Listen, if there's a scam here, that's bad. But what does the book, the guy taking one side of the bets, the house, have anything to do? 

49:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
with this and that's what man of the Library said. Have anything to do with this? And that's what man of the Library said. That's obviously completely not true that other sportsbooks are catching on and banning CBLES because they're taking both sides. That's literally the best thing a sportsbook could ever ask for that's what they're hoping for. 

49:15
No sportsbook in the history of the world would ever ban someone for taking both sides of an action and being a tout and using that to get people to follow them ever in the history of sports books. Of course sports books would want that. Any idea that Benson would ban his sea blaze because they're betting the vig on both sides? 

49:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Benson, better stop giving them free lobster tails and berries. 

49:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I tell ya. 

49:41 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I ya A couple weeks ago, like on those, I liked Blesz, like two weeks ago a lot more than I did now, agreed, I mean, maybe I was like pretty naive, I was like certain. It was like a bit, the guy's out there in his nipples Like there's no way, there's no way, like even a college kid, like there's no way. Even the bros in the frat house are like falling for that as um, as scientific, I don't know, man. So capping. 

50:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So man of the library says he's making 50 to 75k a month. There there is, you can see the amount of subscribers or members that he has. That's I mean based off of what he's charging and the number of members. It seems like a reasonable estimate, like that is. You know, most sports bettors would kill to make that. How long has he been around, though? It's not like Well, he's been on Instagram and TikTok prior, and he just joined Twitter. I will say my opinion. You know how we used to have, like you know, it's funny, cbless actually has these meters, the edge meter and stuff like that. It's all played. It's really played. Like it got lame real quick. This is just from the outside looking in. We need like a hotness meter here on circle back, because he was up there a couple weeks ago. But like yeah, it's just it's the same thing over and over. Now where it's, it's kind of it's exactly like sean perry was last year the exact same thing got hot. 

51:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
My only opinion on this is that elf like I, like you, dude, but the you're. You're talking about a man of the library conspiracy about c blaless touting like just you didn't need to post this. 

51:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You didn't know, though I feel bad for him because he doesn't know who man of the library is and he came across this. But man of the library I I can't even verify these claims. And um, I mean he, he is legitimately I. He's come up with some really insane stuff over the years when it comes to claims. 

51:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's not claims. It's not a good source. 

51:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Not a good source of truth. 

51:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, elf, you got gone a little bit here. Yeah, in regards to Jeff Benson, like I think the question is should the sportsbook have like a moral or ethical obligation to not take money from someone that they know is a scammer? And I don't think that that's the case. 

52:03 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
This is so stupid. That is so stupid. That is like when you asked If there should be a moral obligation To the fucking casino To not take that commander's bet, which I found equally as stupid, yeah. 

52:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's like if Vegas Dave, vegas Dave plays a future On every single MLB team. 

52:23 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Circa shouldn't take it. 

52:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, of course they're going to take it, even though he might flaunt a Circa ticket at the end of the year, that is so funny. Yeah, it's actually incredibly dumb. 

52:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I mean the amount of people that went after Benson for this, I mean. 

52:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Anyways, I could say some bad things, but I'm going to choose the positive road going forwards and we'll move on to our next topic, um, dave portnoy. Obviously barstool um been tweeting out his draft kings parlays hashtag dk partner all the time. Uh, barstool and draft kings um hand in hand. Right now tweets out the dave portnoy's td parlay 35k people on this so far. The haters and the boo birds are out in full force. As reggie jackson once said, fans don't boo nobodies. 

53:09
I want to win this for the people, for the yacht party and mostly to shut people up. Um, he's been doing this for a while. I mean, they're just promoing the bets that he's he's made. Adam levitan from establish the run has now started doing this thing where he pops in and like quote tweets. I don't think he replies to tweet. I think he quote tweets it saying what he makes the fair price of that parlay based off of established the runs um numbers, and what the actual payout is. Just to give some visibility into how bad the actual odds are that are being offered and this has continued pretty consistently the screenshot that is up on screen right now a five-pick parlay. What's actually hilarious about this, which we've identified before the show, is that Dave placed an $11,000 bet here and, immediately after placing it. The cash out is only five thousand four hundred and forty six dollars yeah, that's really funny. 

54:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I mean, I'm not defending dave, but I'd argue like, even if you made, like what you considered, a plus ev parlay, yes, for eleven thousand on draft kings, they'd offer you six thousand a minute after even if you made what you thought was like advantage. So like there's a lot of reasons we could take a shot at dave, I won't be one of them. But um, I don't think like a dk cash out is it. 

54:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's showing how much he's betting too well, yeah it's um the, the challenge I, by the way, I'm not using dave. I've not bet. I think he's actually betting his own money, but you never know yeah, who knows? 

54:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
partner? You have no idea. We've seen that happen with people promoting prize picks. I'm accusing Dave of not betting. I think he's actually betting his own money. 

54:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But you never know, yeah, because he's a who knows. You have no idea. That's true. We've seen that happen with people promoting prize picks before. We don't even have prize picks in their state yet they're posting tickets of like thousands of dollars and stuff like that. So there are some. I don't think that's the case with Dave Adam, for the dozens of you who care, we make the break-even price on this uh, 2000 plus 2098. Expected they had 4.55 percent of the time, again applying some context to the parlay. And then right at the end here um, I found this really, really funny. I don't even know if it's coincidence. 

55:15
Oh, my if it's, or if this was intentional draft, kings put up an. 

55:20
Establish the run parlay that's good now I mentioned Adam Levitan as part of the team at establish the run. This parlay was for running backs to go over their first quarter rushing yardage, so technically establishing the run. But the timing was very interesting. With Adam going after these parlay prices, he tweeted hopefully this is obvious, but for the record, we have nothing to do with this abomination, not even going to tweet out our break-even price on every one of these. Think people who care they get it. I'll just issue a blanket statement of if the sportsbook or someone paid by the sportsbook is trying to shove a parlay down your throat, your EV is typically at least minus 30 percent. Um, okay, so there's lots to break, break down here. Do you view like, let's say, the portnoy parlays? 

56:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
yeah, I think one thing that really frustrated because I saw this all over gambling twitter of like people shitting on the portnoy parlays, which I actually think Levitan was not doing, and I'm a huge Levitan guy as well the thing that really frustrates me with sharp gambling Twitter and this is kind of like pseudo sharp gambling Twitter I find this you cannot want to make money sports betting and also not want the sports books to make money. Right, these sports books have to make money for you to be able to make money. So people shitting on these portnoy parlays for being negative ev. Obviously they're negative ev. Yeah, this, to me, this whole segment is kind of exactly how the sports betting space should work. 

57:02
Portnoy is a big person in the space. Obviously, draftkings is paying them to get people to bet. They think it's an ROI play that they're going to make money back from driving people to the sports book and it seems to be proven right, a shit ton of people are taking these shitty bets. Levitan isn't saying, oh my God, this is so immoral, draftkings needs to pull these down. He's just saying these are my fair prices. I'm a sharp person who runs a site who will have these prices. Yeah, here are the fair prices. If that's something you care about. This is what it is. This is the ecosystem working properly. If you shit on sports books for having shitty prices, then you want the whole thing to be shut down, which is a fair take. But then stop making money and stop trying to make money betting on sports, because you can only make money betting on sports if the sports books make money. 

57:51 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I mean that's a very good point. I I have no like levitan. He's taking it upon himself to be like the white knight of like showing people that the portnoy parlay, yeah, isn't what it is. It's a portnoy fucking parlay, it's true like his. 

58:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's what his brand stands for as well yeah, of course, for of course, but they also yeah I don't, I don't think he's being a white knight going up you know he's pointing the price out, he's not like going at him. 

58:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Uh, no, no, hold on, I don't think he's doing anything wrong. 

58:21 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But I'm saying he's like taking this mantle to the point where he's now saying hopefully it's obvious. Now People have seen it, have seen it Like this is a role that's fine, like it makes sense, sure. 

58:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I guess he does kind of go after it here Well yeah, he does. 

58:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I know, but I'm not saying it's wrong. 

58:38 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm not. He played the role of the white knight on Portnoy for smart gamblers over the playoff weekend. Whatever, that's fine. Levitan ETR's brand that's kind of what they are. I got no issues with that whatsoever. I also maybe you can say I'm an apologist for Portnoy because I fucking love the guy. Apologist for portnoy because I fucking love the guy. Yeah, I, I rob. 

59:07
We sat in fucking cubicles in this building, ironically in like 2008 and you know, at like the infancy of, like the social media, the like even right even before twitter existed, and to think of what portnoy created at that moment seemed impossible. He is to the last part of my life, to what Howard Stern was to an earlier part of my life Did something that I didn't think was fucking possible. Now they've both gone kind of fucking soft as they've made their hundreds of millions. Stern's a whole other. He's a cat lady. Now it's a whole other thing. Credit to both of them. I'm even like the biggest barstool fan. Like I don't take in a ton of their content. I like dave, I like and some of his whack packers. Yeah, kind of like stern. 

59:55
He created a fucking whack pack, yeah your franks, your jerry's, your boss goes like fucking genius and the characters play role in your fucking show. Yes, fucking genius. Yes, agreed, genius, but I don't know. It's fucking DraftKings. They're his main partner. We've worked, I've like, at the scale for which DraftKings facilitates his entire operation. Once he bought that company back for a dollar. He'll do whatever they ask and at some point in our lives I've said this before like a Portnoy or other celebrities on these parlays will be called to Congress Before I'm dead. They will be testifying in front of Congress. 

01:00:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not saying they're going to jail, but what you're saying is actually an inherent problem. If DraftKings is their partner and he will do whatever they want, that is an inherent problem, but I've been spot. 

01:00:44 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I've done whatever a sponsor's wanted, before too. 

01:00:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've promoted sponsor before Sure, but I don't know. 

01:00:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I promoted, like it's not the best price, but it's the price for the place that's paid me to fucking say something. Ok, I think that's the site. Like that's the site, I'm in agreement. 

01:01:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's the site whose lines I'm gonna post. I think the important thing we need to delineate between this conversation and the one we had a couple ago with jared is I don't care if you promote shitty sports picks. That is fine, because people need to lose. Like I said, what to me is frustrating and bad and shitty is pretending like you're an expert, yeah, but you actually don't know what you're talking about dave doesn't pretend he's an expert exactly my point no part of that operation does no square city, watch along city and I'm with favorite team city authentically losers you watch? 

01:01:39 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
him and big cat do their picks authentically, get losing their shirts, and if you want a tail on that because you're part of that community, you have enough of the puzzle pieces. What Adam does, there's nothing wrong with it. It's appreciated. It even makes for good content. I bet you. Some of these tweets got huge traction. It's right for him to do that. 

01:02:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, to Kirk's point at the beginning where he said that this is how the ecosystem should work the game. I completely agree with that because, like nobody's betting these portnoy parlays because they think this is, these are some great bets. Like, let's be real here. The people are self-aware enough that when dave posts onto these parlay, they know what I would be. 

01:02:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I would be crazy enough People might disagree. I might be giving people way too much fucking credit. I would think the Barstool fan the person that actually likes Barstool that takes in their content. They've got more than DraftKings as a sportsbook. They have other sportsbooks. They actually like to bet on sports, maybe at some point. 

01:02:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I don't know about that. 

01:02:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They've danced around with other sports books before they just deleted the fucking app off their phone. 

01:02:51 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, but yeah, okay, no, but I'm thinking of that account. 

01:02:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I wouldn't put it past. 

01:02:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Portnoy to instill some sort of culture where they could only bet at DraftKings. 

01:02:59 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm not talking about his staff. I'm talking about audience members. These are people that bet sports. 

01:03:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, I don't think every single, I don't think everyone went to DraftKings to place that part. 

01:03:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I think you're giving too much credit. I think a lot of them only bet on one sportsbook. 

01:03:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But then when they're sponsors with other sportsbooks in the past they just delete that Brand loyalty Like oh, my favorite team. I'm with Jeff on this one. If somebody bet on BetMGM before Barstool started promoting DK these guys aren't deleting their MGM? 

01:03:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, but if you run out of money on that account, you're loading up your DK account. 

01:03:33 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Oh my God, the Chargers. They used to be sponsored by American Airlines. I only flew American Airlines. Now they fucking rock Delta. 

01:03:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't even know american airlines exists anymore, I'm just on delta, like maybe they have more sports books, but I just don't think there's a lot of people in the space where we're blanketing, but I think that a lot of them aren't like exactly line shopping and that's what the sports. 

01:03:56 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't think okay, but that person doesn't even want a line shop. They want it a la fucking cart. But there's no problem with that. Okay, there's people that go to Whole Foods and buy a grapefruit that's already been peeled and put in a plastic jar. I think we're agreeing. 

01:04:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
They just want it fucking made. 

01:04:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I think we're agreeing. 

01:04:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think there's no problem with that, no problem with that, no problem. 

01:04:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But I am dumb enough to think that sports bettors, once you've made a couple bets, you're just Sports bettors. Once you've made a couple bets, you're just a little more aware. You see the commercials for the other sites. No one is brand loyal in sports betting Nobody. 

01:04:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's laziness, it could be laziness, loyalty. 

01:04:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's on the fucking phones. 

01:04:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You don't have to go, listen, you're not free to me. 

01:04:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Okay, then you get bonus. I'm just saying You're right, but there's people who just don't have to go. Well, deposit, You're not free to me From another book and withdraw. 

01:04:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Okay then you get bonus, like I'm just saying You're right, you're right, but there's people who just don't operate like that. 

01:04:48 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There's people that just want to make days parlay. Yeah, that's it, exactly that's it. 

01:04:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I didn't really recognize this like three or four years ago I was are open-minded about things. Nowadays, uh it's. It's really something I've been working on a long time now every single. 

01:05:04 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I could tweet something, play these three matchups. People will just want to ride with me. 

01:05:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know I like that I could see myself three or four years ago tweeting these exact same things from levitan. I could see it but I think levitan tweeting it is good yeah it's not, yeah, exactly but but it's like it, it is fine. Don't get me wrong. Get me wrong. I'm not suggesting it's not. I just kind of think it's maybe wasted effort now because of. 

01:05:28 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, it's always. It's never wrong. It's never wrong Like I called it a white knight, as if that was like a demeaning term. 

01:05:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

01:05:37 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And I could. A couple of you guys took. I could see like now playing it back in my head, I could see how that was taken as like a derogatory term, sure, but no, he's like just coming in, like I don't think there's anything wrong with what he did, even if it was white knighting. What Portnoy did deserved to be by Portnoy. What DraftKings. Portnoy deserves to be white knighted. 

01:06:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But I think to me the difference is if I would disagree with Levitan if he said here are the prices, here it's a disgrace that DraftKings is offering these prices. That's the step of like. Okay, I disagree with Levitan. But to me Levitan's self-interested to show that these are bad prices. It drives engagement to him. Portnoy's massive the parlay was huge, tens of thousands of people were on it. So it drives engagement to Levitan. He's a smart guy, self-interested. What DraftKings and Portnoy are doing? They're trying to make money. Self-interested Makes perfect sense Again, I think that's how the ecosystem should work. 

01:06:44 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I got no issues and if I don't believe that it was intentional, like part of me thinks DraftKings might be like so big, but if, like the ETR parlay was on purpose also like stroke of genius. 

01:06:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It actually kind of like like come on like you want to play this game. 

01:06:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
We're DraftKings, I think well, well, yeah, I agree, but like I'm just saying, if they're like we can, you want to? 

01:07:00 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
you want to dance because ETRs they're not like. Obviously they're not like mainstream. A lot of people have no clue who they are people watching this, but like for that niche they're pretty big. 

01:07:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Agreed Only issue I had with and believe me, I get why this was tweeted I'll just issue a blanket statement of if the sportsbook or someone paid by the sportsbook is trying to shove a parlay down your throat, your EV is typically at least minus 30%. To my knowledge. I don't think ETR has like a direct sportsbook relationship, so they don't have to. They don't do stuff like this. It is actually a general rule of thumb. This is just semantics, by the way. I don't necessarily think that that is a blanket statement of truth. Oftentimes, I do think that it is a good rule of thumb because the majority of bettors that are offering picks in the space are are going to be losers in the long run. With that said, there are. 

01:07:51
I use our network as like someone, like our team, as a team. That's kind of like break free of that mold. That's not to say we'd never. We'll give out a like a parlay. That's minus CV. I do it all the time. I just make sure that I'm telling the audience that I'm doing it. Like you watch a live watch along with me, where we do like these punt-punt parlays. After the half I bet them myself with my own money. I have a ticket for everything I recommend on the show. But sometimes you're just betting for fun. You just make it very clear to the audience. But there are often times where we end up with like major plus cv parlays that we give out and the sportsbook features and they don't care. I think, at the end of the day, that sites like fanduel that we work with draft kings, they they realize the utility or the value in sgps generally and and like they don't really care if you're giving out great sgps or not, they just care that people know about them is, I think, what it comes down to. 

01:08:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Also like like not that it needs to be said, but they pretty clear they hashtag it with DK sponsor. Like it's pretty partner, it's pretty clear this is like a in bed relationship and at no point, like even in week one before they probably lost a set, dave and Dan like acknowledge they fucking suck, yeah. So there's like enough. There's enough going on there where it's. I don't like hate, I don't like want to shit on them so hard. They're pretty transparent about it. 

01:09:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I agree with you. I totally agree with that. I'm going to keep it with Barstool for one second, because this was a huge topic of interest and still is. People are still tweeting about this now, on Big Cat's real fandom, and I had a reaction to watching the video of Big Cat talking about this it was hard to watch. 

01:09:42
I would agree with you there. Um so, for those that don't know, big cat is not a born and raised chicago sports fan, but he has played one for many years and he grew up in massachusetts newton mass. 

01:09:59 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Honestly, it's the internet's like worst kept secret. Yeah, in some ways it's just kind of kind of getting to public right now and he's addressed it personally now as well. 

01:10:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But essentially Barstool. Chicago needed like a face. They needed someone who could be that Chicago sports fan. Big Cat has some ties to Chicago as well. He said I'm going to be that guy and he flipped fandom from the Patriots to the Bears and he's this Chicago sports fan now and he filmed a video walking through this. 

01:10:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Could I just a little bit of? 

01:10:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
backstory. 

01:10:34 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Because, as I said, I don't really take in all the Barstool content. One thing, which is true I don't even watch Dave and Dan's. I don't care any of that, I just like the whack packers okay, but that surviving barstool they do is fucking phenomenal. I hated the ending of it. Sure, the ending's bad, like once went way downhill in my opinion, sure, but like a lot of the last three episodes, yeah okay, but the last three episodes are the worst. 

01:11:00
Like that is when, like, all of the personalities have been out of the game, like there's a crescendo in those games, like at some point the game takes out premise really great start fizzled for me hard, but it's hard like once the game eliminates certain people. 

01:11:15
Yeah, that is like a course that it takes and it just becomes more hyper, boring, but there was like a peak in that. Yeah, um, but no doubt, if you watch the end, that had to like just suck, suck. Dan gets eliminated. He turned on someone else, kirk, who's a psychopath, and kirk like goes off like as he's leaving the stage, like newton mass, like he just made it a thing. Yeah, right, and then in the game, dan like broke. Like after that, like Dan like had himself eliminated, he realized like, oh, like whatever. So that was just like the backstory of why he had to bring it out. 

01:11:54
I will just say he has gone to great lengths over the last like eight years to keep this away from like the mainstream agreed. They have had shit scrubbed off the internet. There's an old pizza review where, um, the person, the, the pizzeria owner, tells dave, like dan used to come in here all the time watch patriots games like that part of the review like got axed. There's all sorts of things. This is not a secret to like anyone kind of like in the know of the barstool universe, but it it obviously came out and it feels like such a big nothing burger. Other than how dan handled it? 

01:12:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
well, wait a second wait a second, I'm gonna get into that one in one second. So for those that don't know, they have not let this go in recent weeks. I mean, they're going back on like an old Steve Bartman take that Big Cat had in 2013. And they're like furious about them. Big Cat posted donuts this week as a picture of like we're going to be eating breakfast or something like that. We'll get it here, jacob. Yeah, great day to win some bets. And then the response was was Big Cat always a donuts breakfast or something like that? We'll get it here, jacob. Yeah, great day to win some bets. Uh, and then the response was big cat always a donuts guy, or was he getting bagels? 

01:13:27
every saturday morning until his mid-20s. 

01:13:29 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So they haven't that's a great fucking tweet, deep value. I like that. 

01:13:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It is it's a good tweet. It is actually quite fun. It is a good day. Deep value, better. 

01:13:38 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Uh, let's go to the next does anyone know anywhere in toronto where I can get like the type of donuts? 

01:13:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
that Dan posts. I'm not gonna give them free pub, but I'll let you know off air Like those old-fashioned quality donuts. 

01:13:51 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I'll let you know. Off air, no free pub here. 

01:13:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, you cannot switch teams. As an adult says, deep Value Better. The emotional toll losing takes on a kid in the formative years is akin to generations for an adult. Even Darren Revell got in on the conversation he had written. He says this I have written and deleted 500 tweets in an attempt to comment on this. I think barstool big cat is a tremendous talent. 

01:14:18 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm just not sure who he really is now, which I think is understandable for anyone I am certain it is this rovell tweet which is the only reason why we are discussing this whole big cat story that is a really funny revel tweet. 

01:14:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Five, that was five, five hundred tweets and that's what he came up with after all. That also, it's not that big a deal. No, it's not that big a deal I think it's weird. 

01:14:41 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Um, like I'm a hardcore fan, like it just feels like I do think overall it's like just a big nothing burger. It's just been very weird how he has been so sensitive about it. He's even acknowledged that. He's like almost like going to therapy over how sensitive he is about it. 

01:15:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, he's lived a lie for a long time and I can understand that I can understand how it could take a toll on. 

01:15:07
You know I am very biased in this take okay, because I love Big Cat. Understand how it could take a toll on. You know I am very biased in this take okay, because I love big cat. He's like my favorite personality in sports betting, so I don't, you know, he would have to do something way like above and beyond. Yeah, for me to step in and be like I'm done with this guy and I will admit when I first watched the video I'm like, oh, it's a hard watch. It's a hard watch very bad. Like jeff messaged me on the side and he's like we like this is I can't. 

01:15:33 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Two weeks ago I rested rob, I go we gotta fucking unacceptable yeah, but then like maybe 30 hours later I messaged rob as, like rob, you know what, I actually don't really give a fuck like maybe if this happened, like the day before the show, but we've had a couple days, like honestly, don't even care, we don't even need to discuss it, which is why I think this when I sent rob this rovelle tweet, it's like it's in the show, it's not dying. 

01:15:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's every. It's still everywhere. Even as of this morning I'm coming in and it's like these are people getting millions of views on this one topic. I I do. I am a big proponent of transparency, just, and honesty and integrity. The only difference is that I a big proponent of transparency and honesty and integrity. The only difference is that I'm a proponent of that in the space that we're in, which is vehement sports betting, which I think when you are not transparent to your audience in the sports betting space, it has the potential to do a lot of harm to people. Right, like someone thinks that you're a pro and you're giving out picks and you're not and they're tailing that and you're just a coin flipper like that that could be harmful. 

01:16:35
Somebody lying about their fandom like okay at the end of the day, it's irrelevant yeah, it's totally irrelevant. 

01:16:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
he's clearly like laid deep chicago seeds. Yes, now it's imagine imagine getting out of Boston sports in 03. Clearly he's gained financially to the moon and I don't know that if he never became Boston guy, I still think he's huge. He doesn't have to be hardcore Boston guy. 

01:17:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
But if Dan Katz was just Well, you need to find that in somewhere and that was his in. That was his in Chicago was his in. 

01:17:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think there are two. I have two takes of this. I kind of agree with you guys Like who cares? But, like you said earlier in the show, sometimes it's your time to take that ticket and you're getting shit on and it. Sometimes it's your time to take that ticket and you're getting shit on and it's big cat's time. And I think that's kind of funny because I like big cat a lot. He's super well liked. He kind of never gets shit on. He deserves to get shit on for this. It's embarrassing. Yeah, the way he ended the show on barstool survivor was super embarrassing in my opinion, like he just completely shut down. Um kirk is a psychopath, called him out. 

01:17:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Something about the name Kirk. You know That'll do it. 

01:17:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, exactly, and I like Kirk, but also, at the same time, literally even the people shitting on Big Cat would have done the exact same thing Big Cat did. If it's a real opportunity for your life, especially considering he already had ties to Chicago, you're losing your fandom and taking a new fandom who gives a shit. The people who are shitting on him would have done the same thing. 

01:18:19 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
yeah, but also it's funny so it's, but I also don't think it's a shtick like I believe that he truly loves these fucking chicago teams and watching like the pain of him having to watch his, his co-host you know, I'm sorry, you can't fake that like we he, I, he actually is in love with the chicago, yeah, and getting to watch the guy cross the table from him, get to celebrate jayden daniels while he has caleb williams, like you could see the legitimate pain, yeah, that he's going through. What's funny is it always felt like the other guy PFT was the shtick and Dan was authentic. So it is a bit of a mindfuck to think Dan was shtick but, like you said, he's very good. He is so well-liked he has enough equity to overcome it. It's not like he murdered someone or scammed some. Well, I guess people can say they were yeah, they were scammed. 

01:19:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, like rovelle feels that way, I think, I think this is insane. 

01:19:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But rovelle can't even like. Well, he said they have crushed rovelle for years, like they have made rovelle a target which is so endearing to so much of us. Maybe that's one of the reasons you love Kat so much is because he used his platform to lambaste Darren Rovell. Every time there was an opportunity Darren Rovell sees a chance Like now I can get at Big Cat. The guy like I don't know Like how do I put this? Like maybe I'm going to be super corny. He like moved a whole operation to Chicago. Yeah, like he built a whole office that staffs dozens of people whose lives are Chicago. Like he is doing lots for Chicago. He's put his life into Chicago. I don't know Like his whole. 

01:20:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, well, like to say I'm just not sure who he really is now, which I think is understandable for anyone. I'm like, no, like. It just seems so over the top. 

01:20:24 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Darren should have just sent the first tweet. Yeah, probably Like the first one is probably better. The first one was probably the good one. 

01:20:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Anyways, we can move on. I could talk about it forever. Tweet yeah, probably, like, the first one is probably better. One was probably the good one. Yeah, anyways, we, we can move on, but uh, I could talk about it forever though so could I, but we got to keep it moving. That's my job as the host, jeff, to keep I thought I'm the host. 

01:20:39 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Well, you're, you're a co-host, but I'm I'm the guy who keeps you're the host one of the tells was that, like because I just sort of like read people's comments, or maybe one of the threads of that Bill Simmons shtick. And Bill Simmons was almost the originator of share your fandom. 

01:20:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, he was From a mainstream, the first guy that went public with. I like these teams and it's okay. 

01:21:02 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, on a mainstream platform hosting an NBA pregame show. Being like my team is this. If you don't like it, suck it up so I could see how his cult of fandom is like maybe the most offended by it, but whatever, overall nothing burger nothing. 

01:21:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
My opinion of big cat has not changed in any way. 

01:21:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
We'll keep it moving here if you're enjoying the show and you must be enjoying if you made it through the first one hour 21 minutes in about 24 seconds, that makes you check out the other content that the Hammer Betting Network has to offer. This is Circles Off, our educational content division. We also have more channels for sports-specific content that we know you're going to love. It starts off every weekday morning with the Board at the Board HQ on YouTube and Twitter, our NBA content division, and Edgework at Edgework HQ on YouTube and Twitter, our NHL content division, as they go live every single weekday morning for analysis and free picks for those days of games in their respective sports. 

01:21:59
But it doesn't just stop there. We also have the Forward Progress channel at FWDProgressHQ on YouTube and Twitter, our NFL content division, with shows throughout the week, such as our Best Bet show with Rob Pizzola, and also watch-alongs for primetime games during the NFL season with the man himself, rob, as well. We also have hit the books at hit the books HQ, our NCAA football content division, with shows hosted by Joey Kanish and Brad Powers the dynamic duo. We know you're going to enjoy all this great content that the hammer bag network has to offer from these other channels that you should check out as soon as you're done with the rest of this episode of Circle Back. 

01:22:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's get to it. A reminder if you'd like to see a topic that you want discussed on this show, hashtag Circle Back on Twitter. I review them every single week. A lot of the content is structured around what you guys want to see. So hashtag Circle Back on Twitter and, of course, leave comments on this stream as well, helps us grow. Smash that like button and if it's your first time here, make sure you sub to the channel. Set notifications for future shows as well. 

01:22:58
In the us, we have some proposed law changes ina couple of states that picked up some steam in the last couple of weeks. We have a new proposed bill in massachusetts that would overhaul the state's sports betting law. So, for those that don't know, there have been prominent members of the betting community that have appeared in front of the Massachusetts regulatory body in the past talking about how it's unfair that certain bettors get preferential treatment, vips can bet bigger, professional bettors get limited, and things of that nature. Massachusetts has put together this bill, which probably will not pass in its entirety, but some of the big changes that are being proposed is increasing the current tax rate in massachusetts from 20 up to 51, prohibiting in and prop bets. Setting wagering limits on people $1,000 a day, $10,000 a month max, unless you do an affordability check. These affordability checks would be ensuring that at least 15% of a patron's bank account, basically that they have enough money to actually be wagering on these types of things. Prohibiting ads during televised sporting events. Eliminating compensation based on a patron's wagering so that would apply to affiliates where you can't make money based off of their wagering patterns. No revenue share types of deals and a few other things as well. 

01:24:31
So that happened in Massachusetts and then in Iowa it's being proposed that beards could face criminal charges. A bill to ban proxy betting has been filed in the Iowa legislation that would treat proxy betting and sports betting account sharing of illegal gambling punishable as a Class D felony with up to five years confinement. Two very different topics. The reaction to the Iowa stuff from Spanky and Joe Brennan Spanky being a professional bettor, joe Brennan being CEO of Prime Sports, a sharp sports betting company as well basically going after the Iowa policy in particular. Imagine serving a one-year prison sentence for placing a $50 bet in Iowa for your buddy in another state. 

01:25:24
These legislators are complete morons. I feel like, personally, that we were on this one side of regulators weren't doing enough for a long time and now we're slowly going to be shifting over to the other side of like over legislation. I think to the massachusetts um proposed bills. Some of them are probably good to curb, like you know, problem gaming in some capacities, but there's just too much in there. That is, it almost seems like there's no end goal in mind with a lot of this stuff. 

01:26:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I feel like three to four times a year. I get a text message from like someone in the betting space or a friend who sees this stuff on Twitter, and it's like the tweet with like are we cooked? 

01:26:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I get a text message from like someone in the betting space or a friend who sees this stuff on Twitter and it's like the tweet with like are we cooked Most of it? 

01:26:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
most times it's nothing burger. Nothing ends up happening. So like not these things in my worry list are pretty low, but like the only thing I really have to say is please stop bitching about universal limits, because when you bitch about universal limits, you get bills like we're gonna like the proposed one in uh, massachusetts, so like which is funny because it really doesn't have like captain jack appeared in front of that regulatory body and kind of painted the picture of like listen, you know, if I bet and I win, I get limited to this amount. 

01:26:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not really fair. These proposed changes have nothing to do with that. It's almost like they got together and said, like really, we have to really emphasize the responsible gaming component here. And I mean there's there seems to be some acts that are put into that, like, uh, bank account checks, right. That's absurd to me, by the way. Like that that we're getting even more into violation of privacy at this point. It's. It's kind of nuts that like in order for you to bet more than these amounts, you have to prove it via your bank accounts. I don't like that. I hate stuff like that? 

01:27:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
yeah, I just think that right now and I think we talked about this on the pod last week for a better who can make money and win, we are in an incredible spot. So just stop bitching about universal limits. It will only make things worse. Um, I do agree, though it's not like that massachusetts bill is actually specifically about universal limits, but I think this is just what happens. People bring it up and then stuff gets thrown into the bill that you wouldn't expect and then it goes really bad for people who are actually trying to make money. But yeah, I mostly think nothing. 

01:27:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Burger there's some good stuff in here, like um prohibiting ads during televised sports events. 

01:27:51 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, that'll probably happen eventually Right, like I don't see it, that's the lowest hanging fruit, like that's going to go in the celebrity, all that shit. But they got to do more. 

01:28:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I mean, think about the consequences of of these individual increasing the current tax rate from 20% to 51%. You know what that does. It drives like three quarters of the operators out of Massachusetts because they can no longer turn a profit. At that point, right, if you're paying higher for a license. So I mean, at the end of the day, is that a problem? I would say probably, because you do stuff like that and some people just naturally find their way into offshores from that point on, yeah, right, if the whole goal of regulatory, regulated sports betting is to get as much money into the regulated market as possible, driving operators out is probably not going to be the way to do it, I would guess. 

01:28:39
So like that to me is a big one. Prohibiting in play and prop bets. That's absurd, because if offshores are still going to offer this stuff and your local bookie is still going to offer you in play and props, guess what you're going to do is a better. What's what's going to be the common like the? This is again my issue with sports betting regulation it's regulators don't fucking know. Yeah, the space well enough they don't. 

01:29:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The regulators know the space about as well as the people who send out like I was gonna call it a sports book by name. But it's like the people who make these graphics for these parlays that pay less than like actual bets, yep, like they don't even know what what they're doing. I, I don't know. 

01:29:26
Listen, I have very little sympathy for like the pro better, I know the system is fucked and like this limiting stuff has got to change, but I don't give a like and all these sites should take like a number on a game. But I have no fucking sympathy like for pro bettors not being able to work the system like I don't give a shit. I don't give a shit. Now, a lot of regulars square like people get caught up in that and I I appreciate their efforts to protect consumers, but if, like every single bet I know you're gonna like think this is wild had like a $3,000 limit, like I don't think that's the weird I'm not talking about your props, yeah, like I don't think these sports books need to be alive to service pro bettors. 

01:30:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I agree with that. 

01:30:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've been very vocal about. I can't remember what the Spanky's Association was, that he started Better's Voice or something American Better's. 

01:30:35
Voice. I think it was Like I don't want people arguing on my behalf as a pro-better. I don't. I actually think that bringing more light to some of these instances, we end up getting situations where stuff gets overly regulated at some point. What is the solution to this? Because you know, like the whole thing is like well, now I gotta go beard at another account if, if draft kings is gonna limit me to x, I gotta go find other draft kings accounts and this, and that it's like, well, you know what pro bettors are gonna do, jeff, let's say, instead of getting, you know, limited to five bucks, you're getting limited to 250 bucks. That's the universal law. Universal law. You think other people are going to not go and beard anyways, at higher limits, it's still going to happen regardless. Yeah Right, like there's not a great solution for this. 

01:31:21 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I just don't know, like I don't know what the generic number is, where, like, like, how do I put this? Because it's like you're sitting right beside me, but like I don't. If someone lost their like I don't know how, like, just regular people are supposed to give a shit if someone loses their ability to make like a living betting props? 

01:31:44
I don't think they should and I don't think there should be any universal, and you got it and you and and the people like you do exactly what you need to do to circumvent and get it in and play it and when you find your edges, do all you can to to smash it. But um, like I don't, if that like just like poofs and vanishes like I don't know if my, if my edge dies, my edge fucking dies, and then I can't win anymore. 

01:32:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't have a god given right to win. It's a known going into it. Now the question is whether or not that's right or wrong, and I think there is validity to that being like, uh, um, unfair that that somebody can bet, you know, ten thousand on a game and someone can only. I agree, right there, there is some validity to that. I just don't know what the right solution is in in the space, because I mean, I like having sports books around and you know what, if you, if you, if you got some sort of law that says, well, you know what, every better is going to get the same amount of limits at this point. That's going to put a big dent into the bottom line of a sports book. And now they're paying taxes, licensing fee I'm, by the way, I'm not like, I'm not pro sports book or anything like that, but you can. 

01:32:56
You lose options, people leave mark. There's there's not enough places to. I like the culture, right I we talked about this last week's shippers shipper talked about it, about this is being like such a great time for sports bettors. I completely agree with that. I don't know why, why people are messing around with this right now, but it leads to ledge over legislation and, and sure I'm for curbing problem gaming issues, right, but you gotta, you gotta you know, you don't get to see, you don't get to see my bank account. 

01:33:26
That's crazy, that's that's wild, right, like yeah I, I'm not, I'm not into that whatsoever, and I think. 

01:33:34 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But books do that now they like want to see shit like what the fuck, it happens in ontario already for sure yeah to withdraw sometimes, you know, yeah yeah on withdrawal thank you very much. 

01:33:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Not on deposit by the way. 

01:33:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But you want to get that money out, a bunch of money, and I gotta show you that shit is actually insane. 

01:33:51 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's like, okay, even if I am a problem, better, it's going to help me more if I can withdraw this money. If I'm a problem, better check when I'm depositing, or I've never seen an account. 

01:34:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
No, it's more about if somebody deposits the money for you, they want to make sure you put the money in and you are taking the money out and not playing. 

01:34:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I don't think that's what it is. I've never had problems putting money into a sports book. 

01:34:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I have had many a problem withdrawing Because they want to make sure it's you. That is not what they want. To make sure you think it's probably gaming related they want to make it as hard as possible to withdraw and hopefully catch you on something. 

01:34:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You give me a hard time to withdraw. Today it's like, oh, they're annoying me. Shit, I can't get that information from the bank till tomorrow. Boom, next thing you know, $1,200 on the college national championship. 

01:34:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That is what they want. Exactly that is what they want. 

01:34:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, and again, you're totally right, there will be an over correction. Yeah, like because they fucked up so bad on the entry that a lot of these states are are like the regulators government, like they're gonna need to feel like they have to rein it in and hopefully we can find find some, some nice middle ground. 

01:35:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If I, if I was like a local bookie nowadays, where I was working in the offshore space, I would be really excited about the amount of regulation that would be coming to the space, because I think it's going to deter people from betting through legal sports books and they will find avenues to bet elsewhere. Take away in-play betting crazy. 

01:35:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Or to take away, or to take away profits, that's crazy that's, that's, that's, and I'm so naive enough that I'm like why? Because they hold. 

01:35:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They hold higher on. Like I like it, I it's, it's insane, it's nuts. Some of the proposed changes are so counterintuitive. I, I mean, listen, I get why you'd want to ban beards in iowa or whatever you know. Some sports books usually have it in terms and conditions. You can't multi-account, there's no recourse. This is a bigger deterrent for people bearding into regulated. But then you just get them bearding into offshore and like the money's going offshore. 

01:36:03 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Now there's, there's, there's a lot of and I don't think I articulated how I felt. I feel like you should not be limited. I feel like it's bullshit. But even though I don't sympathize for the pro, I do feel it's fucking bullshit that you have to, that everything is just this total unknown, like limits and all this shit and all the hoops. I deposited 500 bucks into a site this week, had a great bet. They only let me bet $11. 

01:36:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Part of being a pro sports. Better is that on the bet is. Is the betting aspect of it right? Any, any. I let me choose my words. Anyone can find edges. It is so easy to find edges. If you're a top-down bettor, you can find edges nonstop. You can find edges no problem. There is an art in being able to get down on bets. Oh, it must be exhausting. 

01:37:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Like I make fun of you sometimes, I make fun of Diggs. How has all the time to watch every piece of content and critique everything and remember what people said from so long ago? But yeah, to be a pro, better keeping track of I don't mean keeping track, but actually being able to get stakes down. That seems fucking impossible. That's a job within the job. Yes. Stakes down Like that seems fucking impossible. That's a job within the job. Yes, that takes so much work. It seems based on how quickly they cut your legs out. 

01:37:37
It is a lot and then all the other side, fact that you've got to take, like you know that beards or runners are going to rip you off, Like that's a cost benefit of already doing it. So now you've got to cap it like an extra 3% better already. 

01:37:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Completely agree. A already doing it, so now you've got a cap at like an extra three percent better already. Completely agree. A very nuanced take from a nuanced man. But not not everyone sees that nuance the same way. You're a very integral part of the show in my opinion. 

01:38:02 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That's my opinion I don't like this subject, however, every single week. 

01:38:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't like it there there's either in the comments of the show on twitter there's there's always the comment of like love the show. Can you please take jeff off? He doesn't contribute anything. Broner, who's part of the sharp community, by the way, tweeted is jeff feinberg a net positive or net negative? On circle back at the time of recording 66.4 net positive. That includes jacob's vote here. This is a final result. They won't change final result final results as listed in the bottom, including jacob's vote. So skewed a little bit here. 

01:38:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Most people think you're a net positive, but you got some haters in this and this is a bad sample because it's the sharper side you would probably pull better. 

01:38:47 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You pull better and like a gen pop like a square, posted that out, sure, um, I I mean, I'm not dan katz, I don't need everyone to like me, I don't give a shit, but I do. There's a level of criticism that I will, you know, maybe take to heart or care a little more, and then there's an element that I don't give a fuck, and that element are these the the biggest fucking loser. Pro bettors who would rather like a show with a dude sitting on his thumb and rotating, talking about binomial distribution like I'm not here for you. 

01:39:27
I don't give a fuck, but that's what they want. Soy boy that don't give a fuck, but that's what they want. Soy boy, that's what soy boy's looking for. That's what he wants. He cuts off everybody for 60 cents. So he doesn't have a leg to stand on with anything. No wonder he wants to jerk off Benson. 

01:39:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I hear you. Listen. We're not the first people to ever do a show like this right. There's many, countless examples of shows that are similar in other spaces. 

01:39:55 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The important part I'm not here for, like the hardened pro, yes, I'm not in this chair for the very valuable counterbalance, right? 

01:40:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would say kirk's views are extreme in one way. Yours are not necessarily extreme in another way, but they're a very different perspective you want to know something? 

01:40:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
fucking crazy, shipper. Yesterday I bet the Buffalo Bills because it was the result I wanted to see. Isn't that fucking wild guys? I bet a game with no real opinion. I even thought I'm probably betting on the worst team. But you know what, because of where I'm located, because of who my friends are, it was the result I wanted and I bet on it, and it was fun. Try it sometime. 

01:40:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I love how you talk directly to Shipper Bio. He's not the only one. 

01:40:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, but he is the face of this. Like I used to work at a book, I'm a book. I'm so hardened in this. I would rather the most boring fucking symposium of nothing. 

01:41:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I agree with Shipper on a lot of things. I think this is one of his like and even Diggs. I think this is an incredibly bad like. No, he even digs like. I think this is an incredibly bad take now to them. They only want to consume content that is just sharp guys. That's. 

01:41:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That's the content they want to consume but that's why it's their criticism that I don't even like value. Well, I'm happy to criticize their criticism because it is the least relevant criticism. 

01:41:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Here's a fact, all right Circles off. We've been producing content on this channel now on the YouTube channel, I want to say for a couple years I don't remember exactly, but we've had audio prior to that and when we first started, our entire audience was sharp betting community. Now, where we stand nowadays, the sharp betting community makes up a minority of our total audience. We cater. 

01:41:52 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Well, they know everything. 

01:41:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, but there's also not enough. There's just not that many. 

01:41:57 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You know what the best part about is the people that complain. They're still fucking watching. 

01:42:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, you know what? Here's Jeff, like they're still watching, I'm going to do this for you. 

01:42:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Because you know why they're still watching. Because, whether I'm here or not, there's a need for this in the marketplace. The gambling space is so big. There's a need for it Because, like I said, I could see a funny tweet and I could message Rob about it and we could yuck it up. But it's hard. I can't call my real friends with a real job and be like did you see what knish tweeted? Be like, what the fuck you talking about? Like there's a place where we need to gather to talk about knish's tweets for me. 

01:42:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It happens a lot on telegram already, probably for you too. But I'm gonna say something for you, jeff, because the first episode we ever did of this show had a lot of the critics from the sharp betting space. One of them was someone I greatly respect, matthew Trenhale Trench, as he's often referred to. If you have not heard of Matthew Trenhale before, I've interviewed him twice on this channel. He is, I think, some of the best interviews I've ever done, and it's purely because of him. 

01:43:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Two of the most popular videos on this channel. I'll link them, but they're very easy to find on the homepage you got into it with him on Twitter. 

01:43:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And you said to him you know what Trench, you're going to fucking watch this show every single week. And he messaged me. This was last week and we were talking about something completely different. He changed the subject. He said. He said oh, you can tell jeff he was 1000 correct on twitter that I did end up coming back and listening to it. You can also pump his tires and say I rather like listening to him as well, I mean listen I. 

01:43:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There are conversations here where I probably do offer nothing, like let's own that. We talk about a lot of subjects, so like no one should agree with me about everything, though I hope like I'm unpredictable enough in some ways to maybe wonder, wonder what I am gonna say, but I don't know. They like hardened, the hardened pro. Like they're the, they're the fucking worst. They like I go shipper probably, like put apples on his teacher's desk, like it's just not for me and I like maybe I'm singling him out unfairly, but he is like to me and that's the like face of it. The guy that used to run a book that like this is that would rather us be talking about like far more nuanced, boring pro Betting topics. 

01:44:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I think I don't care to like, especially with a lot of pros, you tend to just always have a consensus agreement like it'll be some, you know wreck better doing something stupid, and then all the pros jump in and they all agree with each other and they all gang up on him and whatever, and you offer, like the, the counterbalance, like you offer a different opinion that resonates frankly, with our audience probably more than mine or kirk's on this show. So I I don't know how anyone could suggest removing, in my opinion, the most integral piece. 

01:45:13
The person who can resonate with the audience the most. 

01:45:16 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Obviously I had something to say, but I mean it when I say I do not like being the conversation. We do the show, we talk about other people all the time. 

01:45:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was hoping being the conversation by talking about it. This week you're going to be the conversation again that's fine, let's go pull. 

01:45:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Let's go pull in square city instead of sharp city. 

01:45:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's true, yeah, this is how this comes out for you and you still came out on top. 

01:45:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you got two-thirds the votes yeah the comments are very up and down too. 

01:45:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You're polarizing well, I mean well, I think we want the show to be a big fan of, uh, some people you know they were like oh, what the hell did jeff's uh starbucks barista rant have to do with anything that's? 

01:45:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
fine and then other people jumped in and they're like I love that rant that was like my favorite part of the show, like that's like listen, that's like my Tourette's I can't control don't change. 

01:46:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I mean the show does really well. The channel is growing exponentially as a result of starting this show. I think everyone all three of you play a big part in that. 

01:46:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So I would just say 85 percent of the negativity towards me is from, like, a specific subset of the gambling completely for sure for sure and that's why, and I get it- because I'm not yeah, I'm not their cup of tea. That's cool. Like I said, I bet a fucking game without an edge just because I wanted a result. 

01:46:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's fucking exhilarating you know what, jeff, I've done that before yeah, you're not like I bet on sports for a living. If I don't have something on a game and maybe I tuned in a couple minutes late I'll throw in a bad bet, I don't know. 

01:46:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Sometimes it's, it's exhilarating yeah, hey, to all those people, we'll we'll hate on jeff. We'll see you next week. 

01:47:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, we will see you next week. A reminder got a big interview coming up. Set your calendar, set notifications right here on Circles Off Thursday 4 pm Eastern time. I promise you you do not want to miss this one. Not going to give you anything more than that Thursday 4 pm Eastern time, our first Circles Off interview of 2025. You're going to want to be here for that. Of course, always use hashtag Circle Back on Twitter. It is great for navigating the rundown of this show on a week-to-week basis. Thank you to everyone who's been using using that hashtag. I do check them every single week before putting together the rundown. And, of course, your comments are greatly appreciated. Leave as many as possible. If you have opinions on stuff we've discussed today, drop them in the comments below. It really helps in growing our channel here on youtube. And if you're listening in audio form on Spotify or Apple podcast, please leave us a five star review. Peace to everyone who tuned in this week. We'll catch you next week here on Circle Back.