00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Coming up today on this week's episode of Circle. 

00:03 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Back. If you sell this energy drink, you can become the next millionaire right. 

00:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Did somebody mention the grin last week? I could definitely see it with these photos here. 

00:16 - Flup (Host)
I'm very tilted. I saw this and I'm just mad. 

00:18 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
This is a big professional gambler who asked for a payment plan. 

00:31 - Joey Knish (Host)
I just like uncover the tattoos and do the show, and then you're back to 10 and this is insane. 

00:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions. 

01:31
It's that time everybody it's circle back here on the circles off channel. It's part of the hammer betting network and presented by underdog. This is the show where we cover the latest and greatest content from around gambling twitter in the last few days or so. Alongside with the team one we have on tuesday, we have the a team here today, as we do for Fridays Myself, jacob, your host. We also have Jeff Nadu in the top right corner, chris Dierkus, flop no Lie bottom left and Joey Kanish in the bottom right, and this was a loaded week of content, loaded few days of content. It was really tough to whittle it down to just the topics that we have on the show today, but there is a lot of great stuff for us to go through here, so let's not waste any time and let's jump into things here. The Indiana Pacers, at the time of recording here up 3-1 in their series against the New York Knicks in a pole position to get to the NBA Finals. No matter what happens with the next game, with Game 5, indiana is still in a prime position to get to the NBA finals and a couple of betters wanted to showcase some of their plays. We have C Blez with. 

02:31
I think this is like all time rage bait. He says what will the haters say about me when the Pacers win and I get a new couch? But just creeping out in the side of the photo here is a bag from Nobu, a pretty nice restaurant. So talking about needing a new couch but also showcasing that he's getting, you know, some good food. And he showcases also his Pacers ticket, says that they're minus 165 to win the East now and he has a plus 3000 ticket with a photo to go with it. But there was somebody who was unhappy about this, somebody who wanted to flex that they had a better position than Seabless, looking way better than Seabless. That was man of the library who says this guy's a jealous fool, he's talking about somebody else. Here are some, some paper championship tickets on the Pacers all bet at circa before Seabless. Some are at their, some at their peak, 165 to one. Odd, so impressive, no doubt. 

03:26
But you know amanda library, a guy who's talked about how much he's betting. He's talked about unit size being one thousand dollars and such. But as jason notes here takes by jay, he says this is too embarrassing to make the cut, maybe even for circle about. Well, it's not too embarrassing. Uh, manda library showcases his unit sizing here. Uh, granted to win about a thousand, but uh, six dollar bet here, eight dollar bet here. Eight dollar bet, six dollar bet. And look, I'm not one for unit shaming, but when you are constantly talking about how much you're betting, this is an extremely bad look. Uh, we'll go to you to do. You're a very large man library hater. What do you think of this? 

04:05 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Yeah, I mean, it's just another large photo evidence, indication of the phony fraud that he is. It's always tough talk. It's always he's the biggest bettor, he gets the most down, he's betting $20,000 a game and, it's funny, he almost doesn't even make anybody work for it. I mean, at what point do you tweet that and say this is a good idea, because the first thing people are going to discuss is the constant lies you've told in the past, but how you bet all this money? He just he is, and I don't want to get too upset, I don't want to say too much, just because that's what he wants. The fact that we continue to mention this clown, you know, I, yeah, the fact that we continue to mention this clown, you know, I think he's shown everybody who he is and he's going to have to live with that. But yeah, as Jason was saying, pathetic. 

04:52 - Joey Knish (Host)
I mean this is like the homeless man's version of the Vegas Dave scam, where you put, like you know, you bet. He used to bet, like you know, a thousand dollars on every team and then the one year the Royals won or something, he touted it for three years. This is like the mcdonald's value menu version of that, where you know man, the library only had a hundred dollars to spread around, so he bet six or eight bucks on every long shot. Now you know he comes back around, uh, trying to tout it later. 

05:18
It for a guy that talks like he does it, I can't believe him, but looks worse than the fact that you bet six dollars or eight dollars on some of these. But yeah, I agree with may do. Yeah, I don't. It's one of those like so sick of this fucking guy that it's like, yeah, and you know what, yeah, I mean you, he almost wants the, the dunk, just to keep his name in the in the papers well, I think one thing I will add just real quick is I do think there is a partial truth to the fact that I think he does tweet this stuff just for engagement. 

05:49 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I mean cause if you notice anything about him you know no one would have said a word if he had just posted that he had those odds. He doesn't have to include the amount. It's like he almost included the amount, just so he would get stuff like this and I think he's. I will say this about him he is a little smarter than he looks. 

06:09 - Flup (Host)
I'll give him that. Yeah, I don't want to talk too much about man of the Library, because you guys nailed it already. He wants to call out, so I won't give him any. But God, I cannot handle the Pacers winning. I was wrong about the Cavs. The Cavs suck. I took my L. I lost a lot there. I don't even have that much on the Knicks series, but I cannot take Seabless. This will be far too painful. It's not for me to win money, it's for Seabless not to win money. Please, new York, come back. I'm begging you. I don't know what I need to do, but I can't handle the Pacers winning. If they do win, yes, I need to do, but I can't handle the Pacers winning. 

06:46 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I got to say one thing with C bloods. I don't know what it is, but I've come around on him, I think he's. He's a guy that I just find to be kind of a lovable, dorky kind of guy. You know he's. I think he has the chops. I really I don't look. Is he a professional? Better, no, but like you know anything about his brother, I mean his brother's quite successful. I think he's kind of in his shadow a little bit. 

07:11 - Joey Knish (Host)
He wants to kind of be cool. What is he in his 20s, mid-20s? I don't know. I think he's got no juice. They do. 

07:14 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
He's got no juice but I think that's what makes him funny, like he, he. Anytime he gets in a space, it's how are you like it's? He's always in the same like tone and I just find it funny. At this point Now, some of the cringy stuff is lame, but I think he's kind of funny. 

07:31 - Flup (Host)
I will give you that. I do appreciate the character, but, as Jacob mentioned earlier, he got me. He rage, baited me very hard. I am very tempted at this. I'm rude to lose. This is too. 

07:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It's a very elite, like troll slash tweet, the way it's hidden in the corner too, Like it's so, like perfectly executed, Like it's so calculated. 

07:51 - Flup (Host)
Yeah, I have to give him a lot of credit for this, and it worked on me. I'm very tilted. I saw this and I'm just mad. I don't care about the money, I want the Pacers to lose please. 

08:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, yeah, hopefully the Pacers lose. So you know we see some elite content from these guys Victor laughing at. But hey, if the Pacers do win then maybe man of the Library can pay back some of those big debts that he owes and get that money back. 

08:16 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yeah, that's the same chance as your Raptors winning the title, Jacob. 

08:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, before we go to our next topic, let's hear a word from our presenting sponsor here, underdog. All right, quick shout out to our friends over at Underdog, because if you've been watching the playoffs but you haven't been using them, then you're missing out on one of the best user experiences in the space. We've tried a lot of different apps over the years and Underdog just nails it. The interface is clean, fast and simple, but not in a watered down way. It's intuitive. You log in, you know exactly where to go and you can build entries in seconds without having to dig through five layers of nonsense. It's honestly one of those products where, the more you use it, the more you appreciate how well it's built. Whether you're playing casually or taking it seriously, it just works and you actually want to come back and use it again. We've also heard from a bunch of you, and even a few sharp bettors, who said the same thing. I didn't expect to actually like this. That says a lot. So if you haven't signed up yet, now is the time. Just click the link in the description and use code CIRCLES on signup and that'll get you up to $1,000 in bonus credit as a new customer. Again to $1,000 in bonus credit as a new customer. Again, that is promo code CIRCLES, right with the link below. Check it out and let us know what you think we're betting. You'll be impressed. 

09:30
Jumping into our next topic, I mean speaking of people who maybe, maybe, are scamming in this space. How about this one? Here we have a pretty big story coming out from Parlay Portal. This is Adam who runs the parlay portal discord, the parlay portal twitter account, and c squared, scc squared or squared, actually, sorry uh, on on twitter says after being down nearly 100 units, what is everyone's thoughts on being done? Tracking while in a terrible stretch? Good or bad for the space question mark do I run? So I would imagine c squared here is a member of this discord, but there was some pretty controversial stuff that came out here. 

10:11
So a user named izzy said adam, hey boss, when do you think we'll get an updated picket recap? I know it's been rough, but transparency is key for me. Adam says this no more recaps, no longer tracking officially. And then, when criticized about it, brought this up on twitter, said this I've tracked. Adam says this no more recaps, no longer tracking officially. And then, when criticized about it, brought this up on Twitter, said this. 

10:29
I've tracked every step of this journey for over a year now wins, losses, ups, downs, and through it all I've proven time and time again what I bring to the table the success, the effort, the transparency. It's all been there from day one, but, you know, maybe not anymore At this point. It's not about proving anything. It's a decision to find balance, to protect my energy and keep this something I enjoy doing. One tough month, one tough month, changes nothing. If I choose to make a personal decision, you don't have to agree, you can kindly leave and I thank you for giving us a shot. So to articulate and screenshot in this way in a got you moment is truly awful human behavior. Without the context I discussed Pretty good one here. Spence Flinter shared this one, but he had somebody coming to his defense. A user called Juice at B3V3Rage says I think he's right here. I'm currently in the dub club and none of us are paying for his picks. We're solely paying for this man's energy. How do we feel about this one guys? Jeff, you're laughing. Let's start with you. 

11:36 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Yeah, well, as the only pick seller here which I've gotten a lot of flack for, I'll talk about it. Yeah, this is something. But again, is he kind of this like tantra guru, like just kind of guy that just feeds good energy and you're willing to not really worry about anything, everything goes away? He's kind of like a mortal being that you're, you're willing to forgive everything he's ever done, because he just gives you the energy. It's almost like he has this god complex, like he's god and these people are, are listening to him. He's like a cult leader almost. 

12:05
Yeah, look, I was 3-17 in the NCAA tournament 3-17. It was the worst run I ever had been in college basketball but I had to face it every day like a man. That's how men face things. This is another guy, clearly rage tweeting, clout tweeting, I mean. But again, this is what we see time and time again in this show, week after week. This is all an act with a lot of these people and I think that tweet there I don't think that's an act. The one where he says we're just dealing with this guy's energy Does anyone think that's a I thought he was trolling. 

12:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I thought it was serious. 

12:39 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
There's always a fan club man of the Library is a fan club. They will look past everything. 

12:45 - Flup (Host)
I don't know juice, but I'm pretty sure it's a troll like I. I'd be pretty confident that he's trolling here. 

12:51 - Joey Knish (Host)
Okay, and I mean this. This explanation is the biggest word soup load of shit that you've ever like. He just it's one of those things where he says three paragraphs but actually what he means. Oh, my feelings are hurt because everyone's told me because I got my ass kicked for a month. 

13:09 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Everybody's a victim right. 

13:10 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yes, yes, this is the ultimate victim mentality response of like oh, I sell a product, it's absolutely sucked for a month. I don't want these people being mean to me, so I'm going to make up this grandiose. Oh, you know the the? The worlds are colliding and my energy is being sucked by this. Uh, face it like, as you said, if you're gonna sell and you're gonna go on a bad streak, as everyone will sometimes, and you can't take the heat in the kitchen, then then you know what, get the fuck out of here. 

13:44 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
But look at that guy. Though he doesn't look like, he is like Mr I'm great at everything, god of everything, and it's never his fault and it's just a bad month and if you're coming at him you're just negative and you're not going to take his positive, good vibe. That's always the reply when somebody loses you're like hey, your picks suck. 

14:10 - Joey Knish (Host)
You're positive. That's always the reply, like when somebody's losing a. 

14:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Hey, your pick, suck you're losing they go just such negative energy. I hate all the negative energy haters, haters. You know somebody else in the space with some of their antics next week going a bit of a blocking spree. This one's get rid of the negative energy, by the way. Um, absolutely a troll. Just look the person's account. Absolutely, yeah, not a serious tweet here. I should have probably done my homework there on that one. 

14:28 - Flup (Host)
What I don't understand here is how could you think that this is like rage baiting a dude? Because he didn't tweet this initially. Someone else in his service tweeted it. They might be rage baiting, sure? Well, because he would just stop tracking and not worry about it. 

14:44 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
He might be rage baiting, sure, but I don't think Well, because he would just not. He would just stop tracking and not worry about it. He, he like came up with this tweet. He almost like thought it out and said oh, this would be, I'll just try to make you know. Chicken salad out of chicken shit, and just we got called out for stopping. 

14:59 - Joey Knish (Host)
Someone called wasn't being updated yeah. 

15:01 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
So we tried to say, look, it's going to be negative anyway. So maybe I'll just try to make something out of this and get something out of it, do? 

15:07 - Flup (Host)
I think you got the read a little wrong here. It's all that. His feelings are hurt. If he wants to continue the grift, he wants to continue the scale. 

15:14 - Joey Knish (Host)
It's hard to sell when my picket says I'm down 100. 

15:17 - Flup (Host)
Yeah, and this kind of shows like the problem with like with pick sellers if, if they're, if they're down they don't track or it's hard to get real tracking. And if they're up, they either talk about it all the time or it's fake. 

15:35 - Joey Knish (Host)
So this is one of the big issues that the company man here the sister company had was from Betstamp was that you couldn't do the things you could do at like a picket, and so a lot of these grifters then didn't want. They're like when, when it hits you in the face, how bad you suck. When you're actually tracking it for real, then it's like, oh well, no, I'm gonna go to the picket where I can click this button, this button, this button. Now I look like a winner. So yeah, that's. 

16:05 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Well, I don't know if you guys know, but he actually had a follow-up tweet I think he put it out today, I believe, where I guess he's been getting shit all week, and he went on this long Shock. Yeah, he went on this long diatribe and then included his daily win-loss for like months on end and he essentially said well, how can you get on me? You know I data mine and I do public spaces and talk about the slates who else does that? And then you know he tried to clean it up a lot. 

16:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, and he's never hid from a bad, it's just his record no longer looks good and no longer is selling product, so why showcase anymore? People will buy it and they don't know it's. It's a bad product. That's that's what this looks like to me. So I mean, if you're, if you're in this discord, you're in this dub club, uh, c squared as do I run. Yes, if if you're, the person you are paying for picks is unwilling to showcase transparency and accountability, yes, absolutely if you, if you're in this guy's discord and you think he's still winning, I have the goal. 

17:09 - Flup (Host)
I have a lot of like bridges to sell you. A golden gate bridge to sell you like. I mean, come on like, this is obviously I'm not you're, I don't have any like. I don't feel sad for you if you're losing money with this, this guy, at this point and we see again the modus operandi of these people. 

17:25 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
It's do what you want, do what you want, do what you want, and then, oh, it's just content. Don't come down bad, don't be, I'm the victim. I'm not the wrong guy here. I didn't do anything wrong. It's just a bad one. I'm a victim. 

17:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Absolutely. Yeah, you got to be accountable, own it. It's not going well. Talk about why it's going to improve and if people believe in you, they'll believe in you. I don't think you should believe in it, but evidently like somebody saw this and had to even ask about whether this is a problem or not. So I think that speaks volumes to the situation. 

17:57
But, uh, from one dub club partner to a lot of dub Club partners, we had the introduction of Capricon. Dub Club tweeted this Imagine all your favorite Dub Club partners being in the same room. Well, we just made that happen. Capricon and Spinflinter said this is my 9-11. Capra Central said the amount of money lost gambling in that room is unfathomable. Honestly, like just this group of what like 30 people. Capra Central said the amount of money lost gambling in that room is unfathomable. Honestly, like just this group of what like 30 people, the amount of destruction that has been laid in this space potentially by this group not just you know, not necessarily you know themselves losing money. I'm sure if they feel strongly enough about Dub Club which, if you don't know, is a pick selling platform if they feel strongly enough about Dub Club to attend an event like this, they must be raking in from people buying picks. Does that mean they're winning bettors? Maybe it does, but uh, as we've seen from a lot of people on that, not necessarily. Uh, let's go to you. Flip on this one. 

18:59 - Flup (Host)
To start here, I've had a problem with the win more together slogan for dub club, which portrays a lot of their, a lot of the pick sellers as winners, when a lot of them are not yes, I agree completely, and that's what I was going to ask is do we think that that, like the owners of dub club, truly think that their customer base that's purchasing picks is actually winning, or do they not care at this point because they're raking in so much from affiliate money and promoting the scam? I think they have to know. I mean, how stupid could you possibly be? Yeah, they don't, and it's pretty sad that a company is worth so much that is literally brutalizing people like scamming them out of thousands. So it's pretty sad. Honestly, it was funny. Did the Capricorn actually happen? I couldn't tell because I was trying to look it up, or is that like they're promoting it and it's going to happen? That part I also didn't understand. 

19:56 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Oh, I thought this was a photo from Capricorn. 

20:01 - Joey Knish (Host)
That's what I thought too, but it's like I agree with Fluffy, like I need. I need more detail. Also, hilarious there's a Miller light in the bottom right corner. There is like that. There's a I need GRP at this thing, like digging in, like hacking in, like you did to the. You know first, bet bash here, seeing what's actually. I'd love to know, like, give me the powerpoint. 

20:19
What's what was talked about? What are we like doing this? I don't even know, like that's the thing. It's like this dub club world is so far in like this other space of like I don't even know who the big dub clubbers are. I don't even know these people are like, I don't know like they'll be. I'll see somebody with, like you know, 150 000 followers. Uh, you know I, I don't know. So it's like I would love to get some more. Uh, you know some real inside info here? Just, uh, mostly to have a laugh and use it for troll ammunition. But uh, you know, just, also I'm kind of interested to see like, what, what's actually like the yeah, as fluff is saying, are they trying to be like, oh, here's how you can, you know, up your roi and win more, or like that? 

21:01 - Flup (Host)
or is it like marketing strategies and uh how to get more clients it has to be marketing strategy, because that's the only way they really make money. Who cares about your roi? 

21:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I was doing the same thing. Yeah, what is the topic conversation? 

21:14 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I will talk about. I've I've just they've kind of they've tried to contact me for years to get me to sell pics with them. And again, do I get any credit for not working with any of these low lives? I don, I don't work with any of them. I don't work with dumb clothes None of them. Number two it was all it was about. It was how much money I could make and they would make and how much they'd take from me. That's all it was. It was no, and again I went to them and said well, why would I work with you? Like I don't need you. 

21:40
By the way, what is the median age of kids in that room? 23, 24? They all look to be under 27, 28 years old. And it also strikes me as and Kanish, you definitely remember this Jacob and Flop, you won't. Probably, kanish, you remember in like the early 2010s, there was those like pyramids scheme play, like they would have like these big seminars and like um, yes, mall conference rooms and stuff, yeah, yeah, and you would sell, like energy drinks or like I forget what the one was called, but you would go on like seven o'clock on a tuesday night and they would sell to you. How, if you sell this energy drink, you can become the next millionaire. Yeah right, it reminds me of something like that. That that dub club. 

22:25 - Joey Knish (Host)
That's a great comp. 

22:27 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
You also look. I mean I'm on their website and I'm looking at their leaderboard. There's an individual I won't say his name, but I mean this week the guy has 36,000 members at $15 apiece. Now, on his post or like page, there are no what he had last night. There are what he had today, what he had last week, what he's made in his life, even anything. It's just I win. Here's why you should join. Click the link. It's pretty amazing. They do not care about wins, losses. It is about how much money they're making. It is strictly a profit metric, that's it. They don't care about anything else. I will say I'll. It is strictly a profit metric, that's it. 

23:04 - Flup (Host)
They don't care about anything else. Yeah, I will say I'll give you some credit, Nadeau. I do agree that you deserve credit for not partnering with the club, considering how scummy they are, and this is the argument I got with Moore on Spaces is look, I've said before and I'll say again I don't think Nadeau should be selling picks. We can agree to disagree on that, but you have to give him credit. It's like what I said with J4. 

23:32 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
At least he's better than the majority of people, because so many are so Well and we're kind of and I've also made the claim there may be a strong possibility I don't sell picks again after Some of the things I've seen the last six months being more involved with this space are very concerning. I mean, it's, it's this has become a very detrimental space, particularly this world, and it's kind of. I'm not kind of at the point where, like, I just don't want to be known to be the same type of people that those people are, you know, kind of turns me off, that'd be very great. 

24:02 - Flup (Host)
And also I want to point out I do just kind of turns me off, that'd be very great. And also I want to point out I do know about the pyramid scheme. It's funny. I was very big until, like I, I found them very amusing, that people would fall for them. And I remember, before I met my wife, I went on a date with this this girl and I looked her up after and I thought she was like in the pyramid scheme, selling like the energy drink. So I was like yeah, yeah, no more. Second day Like how could someone be this stupid to be to be involved? 

24:26 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
in big ones. 

24:26 - Flup (Host)
Yeah, yeah, so I I know exactly. I had the same thought as you. This looks like a pyramid scheme, and that's what dub club really is. It's, it's a pyramid scheme. 

24:35 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yeah. 

24:36 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I mean you also remember too. All those people in that room were likely flown to that location Like they. I'm sure they didn't pay to go there. They probably were paid. They were probably flown into that. They probably make insane amounts of money. 

24:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I do question the morality behind some of these people. Okay, not every seller at Dub Club is a losing pick seller, but in a lot of sense, probably, honestly, everyone is. 

25:04
There's winners, winners there's gotta be, like you know, two percent minimum. Fine, can we say like there are some winners, because I don't want saying I don't want it to like be portrayed like not a single person. Dub club is a winner, but it a lot of them aren't winners and there's not a really great way of being able to tell who the winners and who the losers are. And I was questioning the morality of some of the losing pick sellers who are involved with Dub Club. Is it possible that some of them don't even realize they're losing pick sellers, because I think a lot of bettors think they're like break-even 50-50, when evidently they're not. So I question the morality of these people. How could they actually do this? It's funny. 

25:45 - Flup (Host)
Willfully providing this bad service and losing people money. It's funny you mentioned this. It makes me think a lot. My grandfather he was very well off in his life and he loved to gamble the casino. If you asked him how he did the casino, he's only betting a couple hundred dollars. He won money every time he went to the casino. Yeah, because he told himself that whatever he brought back would profit. It didn't matter how much he started with. So if he asked him, are you up or down? He would have probably said up, and he was a very smart guy. He just convinced himself because he didn't want to think about his losses and it never really affected him. But I don't think that these people are actually intentionally being immoral. I think they're just so delusional. 

26:25
Some of them are, but I think a lot of them are not fair. Fair, I'll give you, I'll give you that, but I do think some are just like so caught up in their own lies that yeah that's what I'm trying to get at. 

26:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
They don't even realize that they're. They're losing picks, selling losing picks. So yeah, um, I like, like you. It's all been said dub club focuses on the profits off people more so than actually providing winning services, which is the frustration with the platform. So if anybody involved in dub club wants to disagree with that and showcase some evidence of that not being the case, please feel free. Hashtag circle back before we go to our next topic. If you're enjoying the show, please make sure you do smash that like button. Subscribe to the channel as well. Help us jump to 20 000 subs on the channel. Let's keep this thing growing. 

27:06
But the doing the last segment mentioned stuff that's detrimental to the space, and there was somebody who also pointed this out on twitter in the last week. It was narco cop. Mma at narco cop who said insane amount of snakes and weasels in the sports gambling community. I think we've talked about a few today. Bunch of fakes and backstabbers. So I don't know if, uh, am I? Am I missing a significant event that would have triggered a tweet like this? Or is this more so, just a generalization? 

27:32 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I think this had to do with some of the recent stuff on spaces. Um, he's right. I mean, I would say it's. It's about pretty much everybody. I think out of you know 100, I would say 85 are scumbag lowlifes that parade themselves about as good people. Case in point, and I think a lot of that tweet had to do cause he was in there with this Mort guy. 

27:56
This guy came into a space out of nowhere, attempted to paint me as a scammer, gave no proof that I was Just that I was, because he didn't like me. We then find out within 30 minutes that he absolutely had scammed someone and they came in and talked about it. And in 30 minutes, we found out that this holier than thou guy, who was the king of quants, the king of everybody, he's the real work. Better, we find out that he's actually, you know, a total degenerate lunatic who scammed the guy for a thousand dollars and asked for a payment plan. This is a big professional gambler who asked for a payment plan. So, yeah, I think most of the people that parade themselves as the greatest and the best, they're the biggest scammers, most of them. 

28:42 - Joey Knish (Host)
This is the whole thing of like. It's just become calling. It's almost like, not just the we've talked about the spaces but like in gambling, twitter in general. The nutshell is like people calling other people scammer while they're doing the exact right, like even even narco cop, there's gonna like I'm for it, but he's he's still selling a package. He's doing like a uh, like a service's like I'm just going to keep. No, you're the scam. You're the scam. Well, I'm doing the same thing, literally like to a T, the exact same thing as these other eight people do, but no, they're the losers, they're the ones that are grifting people. I'm the shining light here in this beacon. This is community that I'm different. I'm the unicorn here that's actually winning I will give him. 

29:34 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I will give him some love. From what I understand and I'm not a ufc guy, but from what I understand, he is a pretty, pretty good better, as far as I know, um, I think he could be one of the five percent 10% I'm talking about, but you know I don't buy his pick, so I can't truly say. 

29:52 - Flup (Host)
I think, nadeau, you were in this space when this happened. I remember a couple months ago where there was two dub club guys and they kept telling each other how the other one didn't deserve to be on dub club. I thought that was hysterical. It's like the Spider-Man meme, where they're both like, oh you suck, no you suck. 

30:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
The spaces turn into that a lot of the time, don't they? Especially when maybe, people manage a library. 

30:17 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
How many out of, let's say, 100 people on Twitter that are involved with this community? What percentage of them are scumbags? 

30:27 - Flup (Host)
Well, I think you have to define what scumbag is. Everyone has ulterior motives. 

30:32 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
They've either scammed someone out of money, they're a scummy pick seller. They've had multiple accounts those types. 

30:41 - Flup (Host)
Probably pretty high, like 70%. It's unfortunately very high. But you have to think, even guys, that you would think they're not selling picks. They're just in there. Why are they in these spaces? Someone like man of the Big, why is he in these spaces all the time? It's likely to get connections or build relationships. There has to be an ulterior motive for almost everyone, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, that's why I'm there all the time, but everyone has an ulterior motive. No one's in there just to like, be friendly and have a good time. Honestly, nadeau, you might be the only one. Yeah, I might be. 

31:16 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I've said it before I literally only go in at night because I'm bored. And during the spring and summer there's nothing going on, but even like at the absolute, like surface level of the enjoyment. 

31:31 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It certainly helps build your brand, like on a personal level, right? Like I'm not saying that's the reason you're in there because you're thinking it's going to build my brand, but there is something that comes out of it and you selling yourself as you do, I guess you would want to sell yourself to make yourself more likable to the public as well, not that that's your main intention, but, like everyone will always be selling something that Johnny brought this up on his his guest appearance on this show Everyone will always be selling something. So, like you know people that are just there are they on Twitter to build relationships, betting relationships, get accounts? So there's something that everyone's kind of looking for, I think, at all times. All right, next topic we have is going to be comments, but before we do that, we're going to talk about one of our sponsors here edge boost. 

32:17
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33:48
First comment comes from tommy david verbal, who says whitlock and nadoo are 100 correct. This was about the angel reese debate that we talked about last week. Uh said she lives near me in chicago where her rent is a little shy of ten thousand dollars a month, and she has the nerve to complain about her salary while living there, saying it's unaffordable. She's a professional victim all all the time, no matter what is going on. We talked a lot about the wnba last week and do you're? You're directly mentioned, so what are your thoughts in this comment here? 

34:17 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
yeah, I never thought I'd be in the same sentence as jason whitlock and being 100 correct maybe not a great connection, but but yeah, I think again, you know she kind of. 

34:28
She's kind of like everybody else we talk about. I mean, when you can't be the best, you just kind of insert yourself into situations and you can get something out of it. And I think Angel is a bit sensitive. Surely she reads everything. She's the big I'm sure she sits on the bus after games and goes searches her name on search and goes through all the comments. That's just the kind of person she is. That's how I am occasionally. So yeah, she's definitely, it's all about her. And if she can't be the best, she can search herself into things. As we said last week, I kind of do wish she was a little bit better. I think Kanish stated that. I think it would be a lot more more entertaining. 

35:11 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yeah, I agree If you know, like, but I think she's kind of figured it. I don't know if she's figured it out yet or if she's just that's how it is. Maybe she's a little delusional, but like her, her best bit is kind of like being the Kate and Clark Billum, the off the court stuff, the the kind of like being the kate and clark billum, the off the court stuff, the the kind of showing her body like she's kind of more famous and more doing like tiktok and you know, like that kind of stuff. And obviously she's making more money doing that than she is in the wmba. So I don't blame her for doing it. 

35:42 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
It's just, uh, I actually kind of like if she leans into it I think she's a lot like the people we talk about on here, where you can make a living on the internet, like you don't necessarily have to be the best at your job, like an wmba player. I said last week and people were knocking me, but I, I I will put my money on the fact that she is probably the most wealthy wmba player at this point, at least per year I'm. She's making a ton of money through outside sponsorships. I do disagree with the commenters thing about the apartment. Like I think she was just flexing. Doesn't she get good to the met gallon shit? She has a lot of money. 

36:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
She's not like making you know 100 doing well off court for sure yeah, she's making millions of dollars a year. 

36:25 - Flup (Host)
She's making the same amount of money as as nba players at this point and I think she deserves it because she dove into the brand and you have to respect that. I mean, captain, get your back. 

36:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
How can you hear that I I think the the wnba salary stuff is like a completely different discussion. 

36:42 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
But angel reese is is very well off indeed but remember, jacob and I say this to myself, I dish it out, so I have to be willing. When it comes back to me, I have to take it, and that's not always easy and I get into arguments, but she doesn't seem to understand. Yet she, she's another one, she's always the victim, right? So, yeah, people were screaming stuff. So it was, it was racist, you know, and there was no proof of that. You know it's. And then she doesn't say, well, hey, I was wrong and I'm sorry I did that. She just kind of pretends it didn't happen. 

37:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah. Next comment here I think I found Fluff's burners but that showed show underscore time. One or two says Fluff's MVP performance Own that WNBA convo but also at JWD2592 said fair play, full up, great show today and also mentioned this is the A team. Let us know in the comments which of the two shows you do prefer, because the debate could be starting a little bit Fluff's family members and friend group please let us know, because apparently they're all watching the show and have access. 

37:48 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
And I love the other comment on how he tried to disguise himself and say fair play to the team too, so it wouldn't look too obvious that it was. 

37:57 - Flup (Host)
I just want to point out that was the same guy that said he hated me and that I was like oh, I didn't catch that you're right, and then switch mid-show yeah, you want him over, as anybody else in the show won you over. 

38:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
also, let us know in the comments any other things, any other topics. You have something to say, put in the comments and maybe you can feature next week. Last week I did ask to talk to mention the doppelgangers of everybody in this crew here, because we looked at the cam scataboo photo, which looked very much like myself. So we asked for the ones for everybody and at Play the Seniors came through with suggestions for everybody. So let us know if you think any of these are accurate and you guys tell me what you guys think of these. So for me this is a very niche one, but for me it's every ball hockey player in Woodbridge. 

38:44 - Joey Knish (Host)
So if you live in my area in Toronto, or Cam Sc Catapult and just yeah, like we don't need that, we already had that one. 

38:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But if you live in the GTA you will probably understand this and I do think it's pretty accurate. But for Nadeau it is. This had me laughing so much. 

39:03 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yeah, no, this was when I remember seeing this, when it first came out and someone tagged it. That was a great dad. 

39:11 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
There's a guy in my comments. Anytime I tweet something, he puts that can of tea in the thing. 

39:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I see the Rizzler a little bit, but the Arizona can from April Fool's that spitting image. 

39:28 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
The one that I get the most and I don't know if you guys know who this guy is, but if you're in the the hip-hop rapper world, there's a guy 1090 jake I get that. People always tweet and say, oh, you're 1180 jake or something like, without the tattoos. People always say wow, wow, yeah. 

39:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I get that one a lot yeah, I, I absolutely see that I'm gonna. I'm gonna quickly uh get this photo in for everyone else to see, to make it easier yeah, I get that, I literally get that this is insane, yeah, I get that five times a day. Yeah, that's the hair. 

40:02 - Flup (Host)
The hair does help, but yeah like without the tattoos on his face like I just like uncover the tattoos and do the show and then you're back to 10 and this is insane. 

40:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, uh. Next one was for knish and it was jason siegel, which you guys let me know. I don't really see it. What do you guys think? I don't yeah I'm not, it's. 

40:24 - Joey Knish (Host)
I mean, listen, I don't mind, dude, jason sie, obviously you know great. I mean I can see how he would see it, just in terms of you know the success and the good looks. So, but I don't know if it's, if it's a total, you know it's a hit. 

40:36 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I still remember. Didn't someone on the spaces early on think you were actually that guy from Rounders? 

40:41 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yeah, they all did, they all thought, they all thought I was like the actual, like I think. They thought. John Turturro actor, but like who he played in real life. 

40:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Okay, because it was a spin-off, an actual person that existed and they all thought I didn't know that that's a real, yeah, yeah, I never knew that uh, the last one was Fred Savage from Wonder Years for Flup and I. I honestly see it a little bit. I know the hair is different. Somebody mentioned the grin last week. I could definitely see it. With these photos here, you probably look like that. 

41:15 - Joey Knish (Host)
I was going to say if they're like this, if you age this photo with AI like 10 years and you got it. 

41:21 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Because modern day Fred Savage does not look like Flup. But the Wonder Years photos here. This is such a great pull by that comment here, I think. 

41:32 - Flup (Host)
Maybe I'll go back and find a younger photo of myself. 

41:35 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Yeah, get like a six, seven, eight-year-old photo. I bet you look like the kid on the left. 

41:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, absolutely All right. Next topic here Big news coming out of gambling Twitter. This week we had the conclusion of Matt Zilbert's trial for the stalking charge. Matt Zilbert was found. I don't know if actually the verdict was exactly not guilty, but he was not convicted. Whatever it was, Matt Zilbert was exonerated of the charges. A lot of people had something to say on this one. Elf talked about it, saying Today is a trial day for Matt Zilbert. Let's wish him good luck in the court case. Hammer the under 0.5 convictions. And they also sent Xavier Smith Hill Sorry, Xavier Smith III, is that what it is? To collect the bounties? They had a person at the event, Kanish, you tweeted this We'll pay somebody $1,000 to attend the case in person and yell how about that call as verdict is announced and record. Uh, there's a lot of tweets, though. Elf congratulated zilbert wait, wait. 

42:36 - Flup (Host)
I gotta ask, joey, did you pay out? 

42:40 - Joey Knish (Host)
no, they, they were trying to like, uh like, get me on the speed like one in the morning before that. I didn't even know this. I don't know who that guy is, I didn't even know he was going well, I actually I actually have some um unknown information on this. 

42:53 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Possibly. So, for anyone that doesn't know, xavier smith is actually l's brother like, oh, like his real life brother yeah, and from what I understand he obviously went to the court case. But somebody phoned in to the nassau county courthouse that there was someone that was going to try to disturb the peace supposedly, and he didn't end up doing because he was worried about getting an obstruction charge, so he didn't do it joey, did you do that because you don't want to pay the thousand dollars? 

43:21 - Joey Knish (Host)
yeah, so I mean uh, you know, hopefully they don't have to call her id on those things, because, yeah, I had got. I saw the messages when I woke up the next day that this guy was going, but then the only thing that he was able he did get him when he came out of the courtroom was at least like yeah. 

43:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
OK, here's a video of Zilbert just after the case and I think I think this is a simple case. 

43:44 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I think this is a simple case and I truly mean this of the judge looked at this and said this is such an insane, like the fact that Matt Zilbert went to trial over this. I have to give him credit. Do we have the details? Is there like a? Yes, I'll tell you the details. 

44:00
This is a fourth-degree misdemeanor, okay, which is I mean you could make a case that speeding is more destructive because you get points for speeding. This is simply, you know, you just admit to doing it so you can get a ticket and move on Like. This is so insane that he fought for this. But again, you're not going to plead to something you didn't do and he believed they didn't do it. I think the judge was just probably like we're not going to spend more than three minutes on this. This kid has heart cut it out. This is over. It was over some girl, some sort of relationship that they'd had at some point. But I give him credit. I mean he didn't admit to something he didn't do and I think we had all been in agreement. This is why you have to, you know, give people their due, because people hear stalking. They think he's you know, some guy looking in windows and stuff and you got to give it time because he was this steadfast that he didn't do it. 

44:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
And, uh, he got vindicated uh, there's another comment here from the beak. Willie beekman said asking for deadspin to hire him back. Saying fire firing mad zilbert ahead of his trial was not only premature, it was wrong. Now that he has been fully exonerated by our justice system, your decisions stand as a stark example of failing to uphold the due process and fairness. Matt Zilbert has been found innocent. Found, not guilty. You owe it to him and to your audience To make this right. I demand that you rehire him immediately at one and a half times his previous rate to reflect the damage done to his reputation and career. If you fail to act, I'll make a personal mission to ensure this becomes a widely known story about how a company discarded someone before the facts were known. You have an opportunity to correct the mistake. Take it. I don't know how serious this is from the beak, but does does that job? 

45:44
back. What do you think? 

45:45 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
He's not wrong. I mean they've gotten more clicks on his articles than probably ever in a long time on Deadspin Not that he's, like you know, dan Rather or something. 

46:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But does Deadspin want this person, regardless of like, even before this came to light? Does Deadspin want this as a representation of their brand? Do you think? 

46:11 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
is that the bigger story I mean? But he's basically it's like it didn't happen. 

46:14 - Flup (Host)
He, the thing was, it's not on his record, regardless of the case I'm saying yeah, yeah, if they fired him because of reasons other than this case, exactly sure, but I I think because the point here, it's likely that he did fire him for this case. So if you did to his point, it didn't happen because he was found not guilty. So you can't do it. 

46:39 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
He said he wasn't fired. He said he's on. 

46:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
That's true. He never got fired. That's a good point, did you? 

46:44 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
just sound like a leave. 

46:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Oh yeah, he's on assignment, that's true, so we don't have to worry about it. Maybe, but have they brought him back yet? Is he still working, you know, still out on assignment? I think, though, we haven't. I don't know if we've heard any additional news. Uh at, some people poke fun at this. Uh, more so than others. Trav at, he hate me, two underscore zero says nor people don't need to be exonerated from stalking charges in court, and jay webb said it's always the ones you least suspect. I, I talked about it last week. I said we don't know how the case is going to transpire, but wasn't surprising I hate that. 

47:18 - Flup (Host)
I hate that. Yeah, I have to talk about that because if you don't like someone, you can just make a false accusation against them. You cannot use accusations especially ones ones not guilty against the man. That's ridiculous. It's very bad for you. 

47:34 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
No, it's a big problem. Nowadays A lot of people throw words around like crazy words. You should never throw around about a man or a woman. And they throw them around because they don't like people. That is a that's. That's a fucked up comment to me that you shouldn't be saying stuff like that. A lot of people are wrongfully convicted, wrongfully accused. It goes on all the time. So I'll let it happen to you and then we'll see if we can make that joke, see if it's funny. 

47:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Jeff Feinberg he's on the Tuesday show said I will blindly tail Matt Zilbert tonight. The man is running pure after his big day in court. Haters can't deny that he's legitimately out on assignment today and it's not even Wednesday. Also, matt Zilbert tried to call out some of the haters. I was tagged, as was Jason, as was Eric Eager, vp of Air Ligs for the Carolina Panthers. He says Eager, what do you think of my court win? By the way, you had some words from me before the resolution, I recall, and Eric said congratulations on beating what looked like a pretty embarrassing stalking allegations. Matt, looks like you're taking OJ's approach to proving the verdict correct and, speaking of OJ Playmaker Dave having some fun getting an AI-generated image of Matt Zilbert, post-trial, standing alongside OJ Simpson. 

48:49 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Hey Jacob, I want to read a text that I got pertaining to you from Matt Zilbert. It was actually, I thought, pretty funny. He said follow me back again. Lol. I won't be annoying in tagging you about the Jacob the Giant stuff. So I think he knows that his time is spent consistently reaching out to you. I want to ask did he win yesterday? Does anybody know? Of course it's Wednesday. 

49:14 - Flup (Host)
How does he lose it's Wednesday? I'm pretty sure he's lost. 

49:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I don't follow him, so I haven't seen anything in regards to whether he won or lost. After this, I'm not even sure. If he had won, I think I would have seen it. It may have been tagged or something. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe somebody can he was one and one last night on wednesday so you know, as long as there was minus 110 ish, that's what that's break even, I think I love how he did like victory laps and and asked people if they saw his uh, acquittal. 

49:45 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
That's, that's a wild move you know it is strange. 

49:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
strange that you are not the first nor the second person to have gotten messages about me from him. So you know, eric Eager may have had a good point there. All right, anything else, or are you ready to move? 

50:04 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Good for him. 

50:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Let's go to the next topic. We have the BJ cover situation that is unfolding within, uh, the elf spaces. It has reached a pretty bad point, uh I I think at this point uh felt like it was big enough to discuss here. We discussed it before, but bj covers started this off by showcasing a bank account balance of minus $5,000 and said this is going to be tough. And he has continued. So everybody doesn't know BJ Covers. Does he do the timestamps? Is it for the elf spaces? Is that? 

50:41 - Flup (Host)
not anymore, but he used to yes, was doing it. 

50:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
We questioned whether or not elf should continue to have BJ Covers involved in his spaces, considering the fact that BJ Covers has a very well-documented gambling addiction which is causing him to lose a lot of money. So we questioned whether or not Elf should even have BJ Covers involved in his spaces. Well, we've also talked about the Adam and Earl spaces on this show. We did it on the Tuesday show and Vegas Regular had this to say. At Vegas Regular, 7-1-1 said the difference between a kid and adult the way Elf and the NHL better. So Adam handled BJ covers and their spaces. Elf says I can't boot him or he will go to another space. 

51:20
Adam of the Adam and Earl show says he has blocked from my space but he can call me if he wants real help. Well done, adam. Elf is a clown. So we've talked about it on the show before and we came to, I guess, a general consensus of like how much can we do for somebody who doesn't want the help? But to me this still feels like a little bit of a content grab and a way to just get more clicks and using such a negative thing to get more interactions. What did you guys make of this? 

51:55 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
well, look, I've had a long history, bj. I you know bj's been around a long time. A lot of people forget he was a big time better and he made a lot of money years ago selling picks and stuff. Then he just went down this horrible road and now he's just kind of a door dasher who has a gambling problem. Yeah, I had a heart to heart with elf. I told them straight up um, this kind of behavior you continuing to platform this guy and babying him he is a man, he has a gambling problem. You wouldn't send a recovering alcoholic to the bar every night. You wouldn't send a junkie to a skid row every night. You just it can't suffice. 

52:29
And you know, weirdly enough, brett feinstein made a great point on this, stating essentially that it's not just a gambling problem, he is a clout problem. He, he wants so badly to be known in these spaces he will take a job for free to clip something just so he can be involved. And this is a sad reality with a lot of this stuff. You want to be known on Twitter or wherever and you're willing to do things. And I noticed with BJ he started tweeting like elf. You know that tweet for him. You know he knew would get him eyes, whether it would be embarrassing or not. 

53:06
And I told him straight up it's not, he needs to get all spaces. It's not, we can't have them in spaces. He needs to admit himself into a facility where he takes they take his phone away, it's real simple and come back in a month or two months. And if you can be on here and it's okay, most people can then you're fine. But we had a baby in this guy. He has a problem, it's not, he bets too much, no, no, he has a problem with all facets of this I want to share a story of mine. 

53:36 - Flup (Host)
So I knew a guy at college that had a very bad gambling addiction too. He played poker with him and a couple years later, about a year and a half ago, I was was just, I'm in sports, I'm looking for accounts. I thought, well, he's probably got some good accounts and, honestly, bad of me to even think that I probably should have just left him alone. But I messaged him and he says, hey, I've been in GA for a while now. I was there 11 months ago. I can't have any contact with any gambling. I know I wouldn't be gambling and it would be you, but I can't do it. 

54:11
And that made me so happy to get that text from him. And what am I supposed to say at that point? I just moved on, seized contact with him because his life is in a much better place. And the dude was exactly right you can't have any involvement. The timestamp is a bad idea. Twitter spaces is a bad idea. Even looking at sports for the next year is probably a bad idea. Cut off the Internet, focus on your job, go to GA and your life will turn around considerably better. 

54:40 - Joey Knish (Host)
Now you guys know, and it's just, it's hard because it's like everything you know right now, like he's been in, I know he's been around for a while he had another account, he account. He sold it for, you know, a gambling debtor to make some money. So it's kind of like you, it's almost like a sea, like you have to be ready and it seems like he's, you know, at rock bottom or close to it. Uh, to make that, see, where you know, the things you do every day has to change and it has to change significantly and you probably have to get off Twitter and you can't be doing gambling space anymore and you can't be following lines or any of that. And so a lot of people just whether it be drinking, gambling, any of that aren't ready to or just aren't capable or don't feel they're capable of making that kind of life change. So I hope it is and I agree with like that the last thing he should have been doing. 

55:29
And people, people told this for months ago and you do, you being one of them that he shouldn't have been doing this. And listen, I don't know if the screenshot was real or not, but you know, minus five thousand in the bank account. He doesn't got obviously much going on for him. So you feel for the guy, but at some point, like we've said here you know I've seen his tweets for you know, the last few months, even before he was doing that, where he was being very, you know, realistic, I don't want to go on anymore, I've lost it. Like at some point you got to. You know you can't be playing the victim, you got to make the change. So I don't really want to hear like that, like no, you've got to change something now, bro, and that's tough love. 

56:09 - Flup (Host)
I also want to point out in the space. The other day Beaks made the suggestion what, if we like pull together to get him back to zero? 

56:15 - Joey Knish (Host)
That is a very bad idea. I heard you respond to this, the worst idea I've heard. 

56:19 - Flup (Host)
Right. This gives validation that, like, hey, I'll never hit rock bottom because I have community that will back me up. Honestly, what would be the best thing is I don't know if this is considered bank fraud, doing community service or getting punished maybe spending a night in jail for something like this would actually be very good, in my opinion, because it shows that you have a serious problem and it's not going to stop until you make a real change. So he needs to suffer in some way for these mistakes to really learn and get it through his head. 

56:47 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
This also shows some real concerning behavior by him, because that tweet was posted on I believe it was Tuesday, right, memorial Day, banks were closed. It shows a real effort to get around things by on PayPal you can delay it for a few days, like it just shows really bad stuff. And that second tweet is a great if you could put that back up about elf and adam. And I don't want to go full circle but I will. I remember the first time I ever went into elf spaces I went in and unloaded on um, you know kind of gen z, you know kids, right, and how they're kind of reckless, and I think this is a really good indication that you know elf was. 

57:28
You're just continuing to make excuses for BJ and why, oh, we'll keep him around and we'll just, we'll give him well wishes and he'll be fine, and it's like no, he needs to be removed from this space. And someone needs to go to his home and take him to a facility. Right, he needs to go away. And Adam came in and said, no, we're not. Facility, right, he needs to go away. And adam came in and said, no, we're not, he's not going to just sit here and listen. That's just as bad as him being on the panel. He's not welcome here, and it's not that we don't like him. We're not going to enable him, we're not going to give him, uh, well wishes, it's, it's. It's it's enabling behavior and and I think, elf, you know again giving him the job, bringing him to vegas remember that you, he flew him out to Vegas and the thing about BJ. 

58:10
The final thing I'll say is he has a really good support system. He has a girlfriend, he has a family that I think we've seen are supportive of him. His life would be so much better, and I almost hope he does, because he deserves a more rewarding life. I don't think this should be the life that defines him. I feel bad for him. Like I said, I've known him a long time. He's a nice guy. You know. Having a job in that, that's not going to happen. Go get help and then worry about what's next. 

58:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, If he cared about. Like there's a lot of people have reached out, you know, saying would reach out to them and not post a screenshot, Yep 1,000%. 

58:48
A bank account. So that's really all there is to it. Next topic here the $12,000 mistake Mistake made by Krabsbet. You let us know in the comments what should have been the outcome of this situation here, but it was brought up by BookItWithTrent who said such a sticky situation here. P Lopez15 sent Krabs bets $250 to place a parlay for him last night. Krabs accidentally placed a parlay wrong and took raise on the run line minus one and a half instead of the money line. The parlay would have paid $12,000. The raise one by one. What should happen here? And important to note, as brought up by Alex here Granados A24, it says Krabs also sent a pic of delay so of the bet before he placed it. Very important detail noted by Trent. So let's start with you. Flop In this situation. I don't know if you've ever dealt with anything similar, but what should be the outcome of this situation? 

59:46 - Flup (Host)
This situation happened to me a week ago. Actually, one of my traders placed a bet. They got sent an order, they placed a wrong bet and they misclicked. The bet won, we pay out. We have to pay out. That is the ruling. There's no other interpretation for it. However, this situation is not exactly that, because he sent back the slip before he placed it and because of that very important detail, it's no longer the case. Because he sent it back and was like is this good, let's confirm? And the guy confirms or says nothing other than that then it's on him. And this is why, if you're going to be placing bets for friends, you should always confirm with them, send a pick of the slip before you place it, and you won't run into this problem. But if you don't do that and you just misclick yourself, there's no other ruling. You have to pay it out yourself because it's your fault entirely. 

01:00:47 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yeah, no, I'm with you it's your fault entirely. 

01:00:48
Yeah, no, I'm with you. Especially, you know like, in this there is no you know like Better Business Bureau or Amazon reviews for movers or people that are getting bets down for you. So your kind of like integrity, your honor, your word is kind of all you got. I mean, there's a scenario where a guy sent me some you know Asian baseball overnight. I passed out before I was able to send him what the actual fill was, the bet one could now could I have just been ignored be like oh, hey, sorry, man didn't get it in, no, but I was after. The fact was like, hey, sorry, forgot to send confirmation. It was actually in at you know minus one or five, and you know paid him out the you know thousand dollars and on there. 

01:01:27
So that to me is just like when you're, when you're in the game, seriously, uh, and I know you know trent and crabs and those are kind of you know they're, you know jack at it or doing it for you know giggles and all that um, but I think when you're in the game series you have to do it as um, the the way the business should be done there, how, what should happen? I don't you know it's one of those where, like, they're just what happened in here, so people, they can get a bunch of you know engagement off of it. But I agree, if you're betting seriously, you're betting really for someone. You have to pay that out. 

01:02:02 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I'll tell them what I told Jersey Jerry back in 2021, that created a firestorm that we ended up fighting in front of a bunch of people. I remember he what started that was he placed a parlay that lost because Julio Jones stepped on an end line when you need him to score a touchdown. It didn't count. He went and whined to Dave Portnoy about it and said he should have had the money because it was close to winning. We've all done this before. Get the fuck over it. No, I agree, I mean, and also I love trent, but like, do we have proof this actually happened? 

01:02:37 - Joey Knish (Host)
I'm like is there proof? 

01:02:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
like these would be just a little, you know cross my mind, yeah there is so from the video here that trent was basically acting as the the judge for this and he did end up quote unquote ruling that crabs did owe the twelve thousand dollars. The only screenshot that I recall was a screenshot of a text message that had the parlay which included ray's, uh, ray's ml, um in it no, actual ticket is what I'm saying. There's no photo. 

01:03:11 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
That doesn't strike anybody. 

01:03:16 - Flup (Host)
What I love about the screenshot was it was no odds attached, which I found hilarious. 

01:03:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It was just like my best. It's right on brand, isn't it? 

01:03:27 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Also another thing with this. Maybe I'm I mean again. I understand flop. You know he's moving or kanish, but why are these guys doing? Why not just do it yourself? Why are they getting people to place bets for? 

01:03:38 - Flup (Host)
each other. I don't, I don't understand. I would love to have put that account, that bet, right, right, yeah, no, that's a fair in this scenario with those guys. 

01:03:47 - Joey Knish (Host)
Why are they doing it? I don't know. 

01:03:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
The person here, Preston, said they were busy. They just couldn't bet it for some reason. But it's just like you really had to bet. 

01:03:58 - Joey Knish (Host)
Unless you really needed to make that negative. 

01:04:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
EV bet. So bad man, I'm not going to get this bet in time. Please, Krabs. 

01:04:06 - Joey Knish (Host)
I've gone full now, Like this didn't actually happen. 

01:04:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
How much time would it take to make a six-leg parlay on, like main markets? 45 seconds, yeah, exactly, yeah, agreed, that thought crossed my mind. Also, the fact that Krabs was like I don't know. He wasn't upset about it, maybe he just understood that you know he fucked up. 

01:04:26 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Yeah, that seems like. Hey, this is a slow news day. Let's figure an idea we. I remember Barstow. I used to do that a lot. Hey, nothing's wrong. Let's break each other's balls about something. 

01:04:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Finally, it is the chopping block. But as a reminder, if you've made it this far, you've clearly enjoyed the episode, so make sure you do smash that like button. Also, subscribe to the channel. As I said, we want to pump ourselves up to 20,000 subs, but for the chopping block it starts off with the real fats who got into it with the. 

01:04:54
GRP wins this week and there's a lot of back and forth between the two going on, but the real fats showcased a lot of screenshots which I have not included, but it discussed George and his records betting over the last few years. From posts of George that I was able to accumulate we have worst year down 36 and a half units, 28 and 21 in 2018, 27 and 39 in 2019, which GRP called his worst year 15 and 13 another year, 10 and four last year. That adds up to 80, 80 wins, 77 losses, to a net of minus 5.7 units. Then, when you add in bad year of minus 36.5 units, you get an overall performance of uh sorry, cut it off here, but anyways, real fats was going at grp for his record keeping and his losing and betting the last week. 

01:05:44 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
you all wanted to talk about this, so, uh, let's start off, go ahead if I told you that wasn't the most important argument he got involved with the last week, would you believe me? That's what we're talking. I mean, did anyone see him going at uh, omar and uh, you know library? 

01:06:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
we talked about on tuesday we had it covered. 

01:06:05 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Oh, did you. Oh, we did. Okay, I must have missed that point. Yeah, no, fats has been a bit of big newsmaker this week. I give him credit. Uh, I like fats. I also have discussed. I have gotten a little tired of grp, though. I am meeting him next week. He he asked me to meet him, so I'm gonna meet him. But, um, yeah, surprising, he's not a winning. 

01:06:23 - Flup (Host)
Better, I surprised yeah, yeah, that's what's like fats jesus christ man. 

01:06:30 - Joey Knish (Host)
Like how much time the from the screenshots I was able to accumulate, how long did that fuck? It's like I know the guy's got some. He's got some health issues going on. I like him. I think he's a genuine person. Yeah, I do, and again, people can spend their time the way they want to spend it. Fats like I don't know man. Go, don't be arguing, like you said, don't be in the weeds here arguing with Omar man in the library and tracking GRP's record for the last eight years Also random on this one I love. His record last year was 10-4. Like 14 bats the whole season of NFL 14 bats, 10 and four. 

01:07:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It's like you know what? Yeah, he went 10 and four. He's like that's it. We're going to shut it down, we're up. 

01:07:19 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
What happened to the final, like four weeks of the season and the playoffs? Did he just decide, no, I'm good, no way? He made 21 bets. 

01:07:28 - Flup (Host)
He made 21 bets and went 10 and 11, but those were his experiment bets to test the new formula. And then when he got the formula working, it was 10 and 4. Hey, the formula's working. 

01:07:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But you got to have the pilot in order to make the show. You got to know if it works first. 

01:07:46 - Flup (Host)
And Nandu clearly hinted at this Fats is wasting his time. I mean, which person does not know that DRP is losing better? I mean, come on. 

01:07:55 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I think my knock with Fats is like I like him and I wish him all the best with his health issues. I think he's just kind of focused on the wrong. People Like these are not the Like I love. I like. I actually like Omar Winning and arguing with him is impossible a lot of the time. Men in the library same thing with him. I mean he's going at people that you just can't really argue with. I don't. You know you're kind of talking to a brick wall. 

01:08:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
We're going to go to the next topic here from Raheem Palmer. I am Ross Rostradamus. On Twitter it says you're gambling and you don't have a huge bankroll, to the point where you're betting hundreds of thousands of dollars in games. You owe it to yourself to attack smaller markets. They're far less efficient than your major sports. Many from NFL, nba, mlb or MLB isn't greener than money made off Spanish ACB or EuroLeague Interested in your opinion on this flop, because I feel like just a couple ways to look at this, one could be negative. 

01:08:55 - Flup (Host)
No excellent tweet. This is perfect. He nailed it and the Circle Loft crew. We had a great comment from johnny that you should always be bidding limit on everything you do, and I could not agree more. If you're not betting limit, you're either not betting enough or you should be attacking a smaller market. When I see these people posting 500 tickets on like an mlb money line, what the hell Like why not attack a pitcher case, strikeouts or whatever? That's so much easier. Can I can. 

01:09:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I give a rebuttal, what so? What would you say, like my? So my thought process reading this was if you're going to be betting like, let's say, 50 to a hundred dollars, why would you be cooking your accounts on those small market stuff that would absolutely get your account flagged, when you're not actually going to be making any real money off of it? 

01:09:48 - Flup (Host)
Okay, sure. My rebuttal to that is how are you going to even earn at all? You got to grow your bankroll at some point. Worry about scaling when you actually have a bankroll that needs to be scaled. There's no guarantee that you even get to a point that you can scale. People are worried about conserving their accounts for forever. Well, guess what If you have accounts but you have no money? What's the point? You need money to bet, so you can't scale first. Sorry, if you can't build your bankroll first, no point in even worrying about scaling. I would say cook your accounts, get as much money as you can, build a bankroll, then worry about scaling. 

01:10:24 - Joey Knish (Host)
No, I think you guys nailed it. I'll offer the only thing I'll play devil's advocate here. I think most people that are betting not people they may be like I know we live in a little bit of a niche and the people that listen to show probably a little bit more educated gamblers Most people just want to bet and watch what they're betting. When I go to the casino and I'm, you know, next to the kiosk with, you know, 20 people not, they're not, they're not like. You know. Hey, I need to find this 3% edge there. They're. 

01:10:53
They want to bet on an SGP on the NBA game that's about to start in 30 minutes and watch that. Or bet on their NFL until morning and watch that. Nobody wants to watch. You know Spanish league or Greek league or any of that stuff that's on. Or you know kbo that's up you gotta get up at 5 am or any of that stuff. So I agree from a, if we're talking strictly like math, dollars and cents, what makes the most of grill? Your bank will absolutely agree. For the majority of people that are doing this from an entertainment or just, or don't even have the knowledge or any of that I they just want to bet on what they're watching or what's on. 

01:11:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Agreed. Next one comes from Rob Puzzola, who says love getting emails offering a $500 deposit match from a book that already cut my limits at $2. Thanks guys, I'll be sure to max it out over the next 37 years. I'm sure a lot of us have had experiences with that. There's got to be a better connection between connection between the marketing team and the traders, right. 

01:11:51 - Flup (Host)
I love this. This made me laugh so hard because I've talked to VIP hosts on my accounts and been like, hey, can you get my limits raised? And they're like let me talk to the trading team and then they come back with oh no, we can't do it. It's like I don't understand how there's no, it's just hilarious, it's so spot on. And why haven't they fixed it? It's an easy fix. If you're limited, you don't get offers, you don't get a VIP post. I don't understand. 

01:12:17 - Joey Knish (Host)
No, it's serious, Like no book's ever fixed it. Uh, I agree with you, I'll give rob his flowers uh, this week, just totally off dot. I thought his uh rant on kind of the. Uh, first he had the great line about, um, you know, you know, fats being the last guy arguing at the dj with the dj booth and the song there. So, yeah, I think really I gotta give it to pizza man. Uh, in his a little bit of a kind of diatribe about the spaces, uh, and you are who you hang around with. You surround yourself with people that are, you know, been scammers. On that where he said you know, he's having all these people on and they think that they're, you know, elf thing is like, oh, I'm helping, they're healthier, help me. No, they were always in it for themselves and that's now kind of you've seen that crumbling down there, so, uh, I'll give it. 

01:13:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You know, occasionally the guy comes out with a good fastball there and, uh, the b team, b team had a good show my favorite personal example of something is something like this I was limited at a sports book and in my personal endeavors outside the hammer. I was offered a sponsorship opportunity with this sports book and I asked the people that were involved in sponsorship if they could get my limits raised back up, because they were just hey. I took a stab and said, hey, can you contact the trading team, get my limits back, so you know you can actually make this partnership work? And which they refuse because the trading team said I was I forget the exact terminology, but something about unfairly betting. 

01:13:51 - Flup (Host)
So I respect that Also. Great, great shot, jacob. 

01:13:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I took my shot they did you know what they did? They did give me bigger limits on promotions like boost, but they did not give me my normal limits back. But I had to try. Last one coming up here uh, from espn. This is resurfacing about the flag football being at the 2028 olympic games and there's questions of whether or not nfl players should play in this, considering there is already an american flag football team. Uh, daryl Doucette III, who is quarterback of said USA national flag football team, says flag football players deserve their opportunity to play for Team USA in the 2028 Los Angeles Games and I'd love your guys' opinions and anybody watching in the comments. Who would you be bringing to the Olympics if you had the opportunity to choose? It's not quite like, it's not the exact same sport, but I mean you have the pinnacle of athletes in the NFL. 

01:14:52 - Flup (Host)
It's funny. I got in an argument with a group chat of bettors today about this and I actually thought the flag football initially might have been favored in the game, because they're going to play, because I thought the sport was different and then they were my. Everyone told me how. But how big of an idiot I am and I learned more and more and I realized the sports are very similar. There's two. I thought this was something like a mma versus boxing kind of situation where, like you know, it's completely different sports, but it's not. These are very similar and justin jefferson and tyreek hill are just going to absolutely obliterate whatever the flag football team can put up. They're too dominant as athletes. 

01:15:30 - Joey Knish (Host)
It won't even be close, yeah and just from uh, like you know I listen. I respect the people that are going out there and doing it for the flag football team and I know I like I would. If you know I'm on the team and then it's like oh we're. You know we have a chance to go to the Olympics. Now all these NFL guys are going to come in and Jake, I understand it from their perspective. I respect it. 

01:15:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I really do. 

01:15:49 - Joey Knish (Host)
But from a content perspective, I mean how, like I want to see, like I want to see, like you know, the NFL flag football team with whoever we got you know, like, uh, jane Daniels at QB and Justin Jefferson and Jamar chase and Tyree kill, I like that would be like crack watching that you know flag football running around on, you know, you know beating up on Yugoslavia or something. So to me, like I hear what they're saying, but if the NFL guys can play and want to play, uh, you got it. I mean also like that would be the biggest, literally like the most watched. If you're an olympic, if you're like part of the, you're like no, no, no, no, no, sorry, son, you're really. You know, I don't know. 

01:16:32
Dane daniels, I'll wait to see you, but we're gonna let the. This is like when you know they didn't bring caitlyn clark to the olympics on steroids, where, like, the team didn't bring her and then nobody gives a fucking shit about any of the women's games. This is that times a hundred, where, if you don't bring them, no one's going to be reeling for flag football. If you bring them, every eyeball out there is going to be watching this. 

01:16:54 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Well, I thought Jason Kelsey made a great idea. Why not just do tryouts and put it on TV and let people watch it and get money, make money out of it and look if Daryl Doucette plays better than? 

01:17:09 - Joey Knish (Host)
so-and-so why not a game. 

01:17:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Put them head-to-head. Winner goes to the. 

01:17:13 - Joey Knish (Host)
Olympics I don't think you want to like. If it's really going to be that, do we want to then smash our flag football team with NFL players? And you know, to me, I think, just put the NFL guys in Kanish. 

01:17:28 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Let me ask you something. Remember when the M1 mixtape tour was around? Yeah, Some of them guys went to the league. Yeah, they were like Skip to my Lou was good. I mean, they had guys that were in the league. 

01:17:40 - Joey Knish (Host)
And you know what? 

01:17:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
If you're the flag team, you're probably gonna say, hey, bring it on, give us our shot. So, yeah, this reminds me a lot of the 2024 olympics and the 3v3 basketball competition, where the mindset for the america, the us team, was get the 3v3 guys in a way and, like you know, they had, like jimmer for debt played in the 3v3 Olympics and they came seventh out of eight teams. Yeah, sure, it's a little bit different, but it's also very similar from a sports perspective. You brought NBA players to the 3v3 tournament, I'm sure. Well, they could. 

01:18:18 - Joey Knish (Host)
This is way in the weeds, but actually I looked into that. I don't know why I was in a rabbit hole one night. They the olympics created that specifically to like not have professional players in it. So there's this whole qualifying thing in 3v3 that they had to go through, where you couldn't just put an nba guy in. It's like you had to go through all the qualifying. 

01:18:39
Enough then get enough points, and then you would be in the olympics. So hence why, why we couldn't just swap out our guys, even though the women's was different. 

01:18:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, I was going to say women's had WNBA players and NCAA. 

01:18:53 - Joey Knish (Host)
I don't know why the Olympics? I think they just didn't want NBA players to come in and be able to dominate Upstage. 

01:18:58 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Okay, hey, that's fair enough. Then Let us know your thoughts on anything you saw from the show, or anything in general, in the comments down below. Be sure to pick some of the best and interact with them for next week's show. If you did enjoy, make sure you do smash that like button and subscribe to the channel. We're live. We have shows coming at you twice a week and, hey, it's moving week for the hammer, which means we're gonna have brand new studios in the next little while that you can look forward to, which means more and better content, especially those Thursday interviews returning. So notification bell on so you never miss out on anything. We will see you again next time.