00:00 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. 

00:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions it's circle back right here on the circles off youtube channel, part of the hammer betting network and presented by underdog. I'm going to introduce the cast here to my left shortly before we do. Just a couple announcements before we get into the show today. I do want to let people know there will not be a Tuesday show next week for Circle Back. On Monday it is Victoria Day in Canada national holiday. I know Joey Knish likes to say that I run a sweatshop here over at the Hammer. I do not. We're taking vacation on Monday next week. So the next two pieces of content you will see on this channel are Friday's episodes of Circle Back, featuring Kanish, nadeau, flop and Jacob as well. Also, of note, I get all your feedback. Send it to me, dm it to me on Twitter, respond in the comments on these shows. I read it all. I know a lot of people are asking what happened to these Circles Off interviews. Are they ever going to come back? The answer is yes, they are going to come back. We have been building out some new studios that are in the process of being built out. They'll be moving ready probably in early june, so we will pick those up at some point or another. It's been a temporary hiatus on that. We also got some other new types of content planned as well, so stick with with us. Those will come back at some point, maybe not in a weekly capacity like they were in the past, but there are more interviews coming on this channel in the near future. 

02:14
I'm Rob Pizzola, to my left, kirk Evans, jeff Feinberg, jacob Gromenia producing today, and I do want to let people know, because we did have accusations of jeff nadu falling asleep during one of the shows. You might see jeff on the phone a lot. Today. It is the week of a major and you know what that means. Jeff, we record these mondays. He's always trying to get the best prices. You know he's become more of a sharp guy, so you might see him on the phone a little distracted, but it is a major monday, you excited yeah, it should be great. 

02:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's always a major. The best majors are like major championship. Golf is like a fetish of mine, so I'm excited and the best players in the world are playing amazing yeah, so I like that. 

02:55
That's the word you you chose to describe well there's very few things I actually care about, but the things I care about, I care about a fucking lot like too much, yeah, but I don't care about like that many things, and this would be one of them all right, speaking of things that we no longer care about, I'm gonna give you 30 seconds here. 

03:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay, we don't talk elf spaces anymore on the show okay but I know you're still tuning in. You're, you're, you're, you're seeing everything that's going on in the elf world at this point, right now. Here's your time to shine, jeff. What do you want to say? 

03:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The content game is fucking cruel. It is a bitch. When he left his job, I do not think he thought he'd be soliciting MoCon two weeks later. There's just no fucking way. That was part of his plan, yeah. So yeah, the content game is hard. It's cruel. Welcome to the content world. Yeah, like he's learning the harsh realities. Um, now he's going to like a full weirdo engagement route. I learned from his heroes out in vegas. 

04:05 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's all like very weird, yeah that's we need to give jeff his flowers. 

04:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Jeff, you've nailed every just every step of the way. 

04:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And now this is your mona, my man can I say I I crushed. I am as good at predicting what Ryan has coming next as Zalbert is at over-unders. Like I am to calling the next step as like yeah, how about that call? But it's not just like no fight. No fight was like obvious. 

04:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's just like every little part of it. Now there's this new show that's popping up, that people are on, clearly challenging Elf. Elf already doesn't like them. Well, there's a clear void in the marketplace. 

04:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, it's simple because we saw what happened early in the Elf show. People like that I don't like. Clearly, it's what Ryan did to get the to have a run-up. Like that's not easy. Yep, like that takes something. He was like some of the shows were going like five in the morning, right, like it was almost to a crazy level, but in the end he deviated into something else and there's a marketplace for that. And what built his show in the first place was people like you, rob, people like spanky, people like knish jack mac, jeff nadeau yeah, jack mac being in that space. As we know, twitter works so many falls in the spaces. It's up there, bing bong, boom. Ryan used to thank me often for not going in on a burner account. Right, I don't have a huge following, but I have a decent following and it just like shows that you're in there. Yeah, spanky being in there Like a lot of people, lent the show a level of credibility. If those people went into another space, I believe to like a smaller extent, the same thing would probably happen. 

06:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep, totally agree with you. And, like you said, kirk, there's other competitors now. There's the Adam and Earl space, which I've been listening to every now and then as well, and we will continue to cover the spaces here on Circle Back if they are topical and if there's something that we need to talk about. As a reminder, this is a show where we review the week that was in gambling twitter. We do look at your hashtags. Hashtag circle back. If you want us to talk about a topic, elf's been hashtagging everything. Circle back. Jeff uses ryan and elf interchangeably, ryan being his real name, just for people who don't know. But, uh, for those that that want the spaces talk or don't listen, at the end of the day, you control a lot of the show, so use the hashtag on twitter. We'll try to get as many things as possible into this show. Let's start with the leading topic today. Jacob Novig cancels bets. 

06:49 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
A very big topic from this week on gambling Twitter. There was the controversy with ProfitX a couple of weeks ago and now Novig took a lot of heat, so it started with this tweet here. They said Hi all, unfortunately, we had a data issue impacting some MLB games today, on May 10th. This led to some orders being placed on incorrect games while others were correct. As a result, we're going to have to fully void main markets and batter props for the following events. And it lists out I think it's 11, maybe 12 games on the MLB slate and says we are very sorry for this inconvenience. Please reach out if you have any more questions about how this will impact your account. So, naturally, if you made some correct bets and got really good prices, you are going to be very upset that all of a sudden they voided the entire slate for these games. Essentially, ethan at EthanAZ underscore says it's pretty outrageous and not an acceptable course of action. Even Elf was upset with this said $11,000 in bets voided on Novig. Oh my, I hate reading his tweets word for word, but I'll read it. Oh my boys, this is an absolute disaster. On my first day back to gambling, I just had 11,000 odds and bets get voided with the skull emoji. The good news is they're making everything right in live support, but not sure what happened here. 

08:12
A couple other people Storm underscore pig says rushed to market to grab the sweepstakes. Market share has its consequences. Very bad look. Zach. Forecaster 20 says I find it hard to believe there was such a massive interest in people trading tomorrow's baseball games that it created a situation where every single bet had to be void, mostly like novig, who claims to make their money market uh, their sorry. Who claims to make their money market making on their own exchange? It's a tough, tough one. There had a massive gap and rather than eat it, it just going to it. It's just going to avoid every single bet in the market one minute before first pitch. Why did it take so long to figure out? So it seemed like maybe it was a bit of like a last resort situation for them to have to avoid everything and a bit of a conversation starter potentially here. 

09:02
I didn't, and a bit of a conversation starter, potentially here Pay the Big One says PlayProfitX was Elf sponsor Fucks over at the NHL better, so the NHL better gets in bed with no big app and they fuck over Elf. 

09:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Hashtag circle back, I don't know about that one. 

09:21 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
But, rob, have you ever seen anything like this, where an exchange or a sportsbook completely voids basically the entire slate because of an error for some of the bets that occurred? 

09:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Not the entire slate, but I mean we saw a very similar example with ProfitX and voiding bets in this sort of same discourse. That happened, I want to say, three or four weeks ago as well. Happened, I want to say three or four weeks ago as well. Pay the Vig, very funny tweet here meant to be funny. Obviously I don't think that there was any sort of conspiracy theory attached to this. You have a little bit more detail, kirk, because Big Buck Hunter Henry, who's the head of Novix Trading, I think, reached out to you personally to offer a little bit of insight into this. 

09:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, so he sent me a voice note pretty much what happened. You explained nearly exactly it. But there were people on there was a bug on the app that had been updated, but if you hadn't like reloaded the app, you still had that bug. So, like you were saying, the MLB games were showing for some people tomorrow and some people today, so for some people tomorrow and some people today. And then there are a lot of people who use Novig, as you know, an ARB site. So right when the games open for the next day, a lot of people came in and put volume in for, like these ARBs and that's kind of where the problems arise. But just to give Novig some credit, it's not like they left these people out to dry. They did pay out the EV. Like that was the general rule from what Big Buck Hunter told me of. Like anyone who made a bet there who had, let's say, you bet $1,000 and it was like a 5% edge, they would pay you out that 5%. Pay you out the EV, got it. 

11:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think so they were basically not in a position to take on like the full liquidity pool where you know if a bunch of people you know probably like built up six figures in liability on certain games and stuff like that, so they paid the expected value on the wagers instead, so that people would at least get something yes, exactly, and I think it was also a huge part of this that I think isn't being talked about is how much of a time crunch it was right. 

11:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Like one of those tweets said, they they voided a minute before games. 

11:39
They only realized the problem like an hour, an hour and a half before these games were about to start. So they were in the position of we are going to either have to take like a massive risk of having all the, of taking all these games. Yeah, even if the ev was not that bad for uh novik to take I'm not sure they they could have calculated the ev of each bet in that time but also I'm not sure they wanted to take, you know, a seven figure risk and just hope the EV played out in a small sample. So I think they kind of just clicked the like disaster button of that voiding will be a reputational risk and hurt them, but it won't do anything actually that bad to the company. So I think this is one of these situations where this is a really bad look for Novig and especially the recs on the site won't like it. But at the same time I do think they handled it correctly, given the fact that they had this error and the error was their fault. 

12:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's definitely debatable. So I've worked in this space long enough to know that tech issues will happen. Me and Jeff used to work together at the SCORE in radio, but I left radio to go work for SCORE Mobile, which was the digital property of the SCORE, and my first job there was operations manager. So I had to handle operations a very tight-knit team. You have data issues, whatever, whatever, and the app goes down, something breaks, stuff like that is going to happen. I mean, there are mistakes. That can be, that can that can happen. However, that does not make them acceptable either. Yes, okay, I agree. So I want novig to succeed. I like the people at novig. I like everything that they say that they are building, but this almost feels like they are running a beta version in a live market and that cannot happen. Period, plain and simple Mistakes like this. 

13:41
I don't know if it will be devastating for them or not, but what I've seen novig do in recent months, months and this is going to be a hurdle for all of all of the exchanges, especially the sweeps exchanges, is how do you get like more casual bettors to come and bet over? Well, let's hire taylor mathis as our chief winning officer and let's leverage her following and see if we can get people to come over there. You you know what casual bettors care about. They care that they can actually bet and their bets are going to be honored, and when something gets canceled like this especially someone who might have bet the entire day of baseball that's going to leave a lasting impression. It simply cannot happen, and I was listening to the Adam and Earl spaces on Sunday night as well, where there were people who had bets canceled and saying that they weren't informed that their bets were canceled until like 45 minutes after the game had started. 

14:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So yes, the game got canceled. There was one early start game. That that did happen, right. 

14:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So they canceled the bets but took 45 minutes to get him an email, and that also is unacceptable. So to me, this is a colossal failure. It can't happen. I understand that there's going to be situations where it does, and did they take the right course of action in terms of paying people, ev. Probably, like I don't really know what the other solution was but it simply can't happen and at the end of the day, I think it's a really bad look for a company that you know I want to succeed and you know is trying to build a following right now. 

15:19 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So the casuals like could be done Because I know, like you know, flop and a lot of like the true pros. You guys talk about a risk tolerance. None of my friends who are casuals like you guys can accept. Oh, you know someone who I had made a bet for me like stiffed me. Yeah, like that is part of your risk management through your whole year. It's like part of it's like a business expense almost on your end like a casual betting 100, 200, 500 dollars. Like that concept is. They don't comprehend it. Yeah, they'd rather get a four percent worse line and just bet on fan duel right I will give novig a lot of credit, though this has nothing to do with me. 

16:04
uh Like, I don't even know the guys. I, like fake, know them on the internet. They seem like a good group trying to make a product that we all should want to succeed. Right, I do like. Even though they fucked up and they're not idiots because they play around in the spaces game, they probably were around a victory lap when Profit X had an incident. 

16:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They were. It's all part of the game. 

16:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You eat, you get eaten. 

16:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's all the machine which honestly sorry to cut you off there it's all good. It actually bothers me that they don't work together a little bit more to try to grow the whole sweepstakes exchange. 

16:40 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The sweepstakes. 

16:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It feels like there's some animosity. You know why, though? 

16:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
because it's still those early stages where, like, yes, you know, rising tides lifts all. It's like the competition between them to be the one that succeeds is like outweighs the desire to work together. Back to trying to give them a little bit of credit and shout out to the cwo she like maybe we're getting maternity walks, bet, soon I will smash the first post baby list. 

17:10
I will smash it when there is any better word when there is real milk in the milk pickers. Like that is an edge. Uh, I like how they went about trying to like truly hands-on, their top people talking to people who got screwed over. Yeah, maybe going like above and beyond, but in this world of like, I'm not comparing them to some huge corporation, but we all know how like a corporation can just treat you or put you on hold. 

17:41
Endless emails back and forth, like they really did try to have all hands on deck. They fucked up so bad they had to. But they like in extreme effort to sort of apologize and I don't know if there is a make good but do their best in communicating their fuck up and trying to make their, their customers happy individually. Now maybe it should have been like a blanket fix. It seems like other people got different treatment. Yeah, you know they have to protect their operation and I only know what I know from like picking up bits and pieces of tweets or listening a little in a space. But I do appreciate how they've responded to how they fucked up. 

18:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I get that as well. I mean, listen, at the end of the the day, maybe I'm like overly critical of this type of stuff, but no, full stop, it cannot happen. Yeah, like, if you're, if you're holding player front funds and you're taking bets and you want to be viewed as reputable in the space, then you have to honor those bets. Like I elf said what eleven thousand dollars of his bets got voided. Elf's not betting 11 000 on individual baseball games. Like, let's be real, he's arby right. So, like, like, think about and and this is a very common use case for exchanges exchanges are offering great prices. You get a lot of arbors and they want arbors. Now, all of a sudden, half your you know one side is canceled of all your arbs and you're on the hook for the other side. Like, that is a miserable, miserable experience. 

19:05
So, listen, I do agree with you guys in that I think the appropriate action was taken. Could it have been handled better in terms of getting the release out to players? Yes, like you know, betstamp is a tech company that I co-own. The score was a company I worked for. We have functionality in the app to just push a notification to everyone saying this is what happened. Now. They opted not to do that, probably because there's a lot of people that are not impacted by these voids and they don't want to send a message out to. But you have to get the messaging out quickly as well, like that's part of it. When there's a problem, catastrophic, catastrophic issue, people cannot find out 45 minutes later as well. So I, I don't, I don't know, I I would have handled it a little bit differently personally if I was in the role. You just got to own it and be authentic, but you got to communicate that message quickly so them doing what you're suggesting notifies like non-baseball bettors that they screwed up. 

20:01 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Yes yeah, tough, yeah, yeah tough. 

20:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I, I like I could see it from like their personal end, but I don't think. Well, it felt like they almost didn't have a choice. They had to, they had to mess. 

20:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, we faced this at the score many years ago, where the apps were the, the push notification was universal. And then we're like well, you know, if we have a problem related to nba scores not working, do we want to push that to everyone? The answer was no. And then we're like well, you know, if we have a problem related to NBA scores not working, do we want to push that to everyone? The answer was no. So we then just built out alerts for specific leagues, so if someone was on the NBA page, they'd get it. They probably listen. I don't want to say that they're a startup, but, like they're in their infancy, novig right. So they don't have this functionality, but at the end of the day, don't have this functionality. But at the end of the day, this leaves a lasting impression in people's mouths and I can say if this happened to me there's lots of liquidity options out there nowadays. It didn't happen to me. I wasn't betting on novig for baseball. 

20:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I would be fucking pissed so I do think of novig, like if there was a casual out there who had like a 200 bet that got voided, that won. I'm, I can't, I'm speaking for them, sounds they would have paid I'm pretty certain like yeah, and based on how I've seen them react to other people they would have paid that absolutely. 

21:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And I was about to say that about your, our point, and this is why, to me, you couldn't use a blanket because, let's say, you arbed it and the other side, um, lost and you were supposed to win on novig. Yeah, we could not find an example of someone who did that like we asked in the spaces. I have not heard anyone. I did ask henry about this. It seemed like they would be willing to take on that payment of if someone lost. You, you know, was trying to ARB and lost their skis because Novig avoided and they weren't like, let's say, they weren't on their computer, they didn't see the notification until too late. They couldn't cash out. I do think Novig would have been willing to take that hit. I think there are a few really important things here. 

22:01
I think undeniably these exchanges have more counterparty risk than fanduel and draftkings like fanduel and draftkings are gonna honor your bets to a degree that as long as it's not an egregiously bad maybe like palps, but like even fanduel, like I've seen some palps that they've paid out that are literally ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, um. 

22:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But at the same time, a palp for those that don't know. 

22:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So a palpable error where you, you know the trader fat figured a number and it was supposed to be, you know, plus 150 and it was plus 1500. Right. So I think that's an undeniable truth as much as I wish it wasn't. Think it's an undeniable truth that any person who is betting seriously and wants to make money is in in their best interest for these companies to succeed. Yeah, so, at the like, for anyone who's a serious, better, I agree. For wrecks it's a different story, but I don't have any information. My hypothesis would be wreck, true wreck, action on any of these sweepstakes is a stunningly small percentage yeah, I would guess that stunningly. 

23:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You're probably right. Essentially nothing I agree, but I I'm just speaking to the fact that they're trying to attract that type of better through the taylor mathis connection absolutely the guy betting like 50 to 250, even 500. 

23:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
they're happy to lay 3 cents, 5 cents more juice, you're right. 

23:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, they probably don't. 

23:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm curious. It'd be fascinating to know how much action a Taylor Mathis promo code garnered? 

23:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I have no idea, but there's no SGPs on these, like that type of bet type. But we'll leave it at that. Kirk standing for the books one more time, as he's known to do on the show A future with healthy exchanges is the betting future I want to exist 100%. 

23:59
I want as many options in market as possible that we can trust, and I'm not saying I don't trust Novig because of this, but it will inevitably make some people doubt not only their brand but also the entire model, and it might be a small percentage of people. I don't care where you are in your product journey, you have to be trustworthy and that's what matters. 

24:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But it also seems like the people at least that I'm assuming are like the highest volume or stake risk bettors yeah all seem pretty satisfied with how it was uh handled yeah I would tend to agree, yeah. 

24:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
The last thing I'll say is I do think and I don't know this with certainty and I'm not able to use these sites but I have heard of tech issues with Novig and it seems like that is something that they're going to have to fix and get better. For sure, I don't think that this is that unique. 

25:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And could they survive something else? That's the next thing. Now you've used your one time. 

25:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's like the sport's better right. You've used your one time. What happens in a scenario where this happens next week on baseball games? 

25:14
But even in eight weeks, sure, sure At any point. Anyways, we'll get back to more Circle Back topics in just a second Before we do a word from our sponsor. We're deep into the second round of the NBA playoffs and while the drama is still heating up on the court, it's also gearing up on underdog, especially with the extender coming back for round three. If you missed it the first time around, here's what the extender is all about Starting in game one of a playoff series, you can make an entry and receive a boost. If you keep playing the same series in games two, three, four and beyond, the boosts get bigger every single time. It rewards people like me and you who sweat an entire series from start to finish, and if we get another game seven, that's where the max boost hits and it can be a serious difference maker. 

26:02
The extender goes live again once round three of the NBA playoff starts. So this is your heads up to get ready. Underdog is one of the cleanest, easiest platforms to use Everything from player projections to the payouts, it's all top tier and, honestly, it's just a great product to use during playoff basketball. So if you haven't yet hit the link in the description below, sign up using promo code CIRCLES and you'll get up to $1,000 in bonus credit as a new customer. That's promo code CIRCLES. Keep an eye out. The extender is back for round three. 

26:36 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
And before our next topic, if you're enjoying this episode of Circle Back so far, make sure you do smash that like button to catch these episodes, usually twice a week, but you'll still get the Friday shows for the next couple weeks. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel If you're listening in audio form. Take a second to rate and review five stars, but there may not be five-star reviews for the prices for Bet Bash this year. Me and Rob will be attending Bet Bash. Kirk and Jeff, are you guys going as well? 

27:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't Kirk's a no for sure. I think, jeff, we're up in the air. 

27:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I got a lot. Me visiting George is my bet bash Okay. 

27:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, I'm a doubtful. 

27:14 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
And it is well not 99 days, but on May 5th when this was tweeted, it was 99 days away, spanky said 99 days away from the best sports gambling networking conference in the world. Five open bars, four expert panels, 20-plus educational seminars, six live podcasts, speed networking, sportsbook stadium swim watch parties, a scavenger hunt, the Sports Gambling Hall of Fame induction ceremony all at Bet Bash. And the first reply from Mickey here at Moneyline. Mickey says cheapest ticket $799. That doesn't include anything. A few people were upset about this. Wolf of Walgreens says what a grift. And Josh at Josh, I'm not going to read the numbers says exactly, it's all a bunch of nothing but a moneymaker for Spanky to make him think he's somebody in the sports betting world. Nobody there is giving you any information you don't already know about. Know about spelled N-O, about by the way. 

28:11
You should know about spelling. But anyways, Rob, you've been a few times I've been to every Bet Bash. 

28:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I believe I'm being awarded some sort of honorary medallion for being to every Bet Bash. 

28:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
What number is this? Five, I think. So it's two in Jersey and two in Vegas. One in Jersey, one in Jersey. Honorary medallion for being to every bet back. 

28:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What number is this? 

28:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
uh, I five I think yeah, so it's two in jersey and two in one in jersey, one in jersey which was a one-day event. 

28:30 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Uh okay, full disclosure to the audience here. Um used to hate spanky. We're now pretty close friends. I talk to him very regularly. I do want to provide that context for when I speak on this. 

28:41
Um bet bash is another sports betting conference. It it's a conference, in my opinion. I've been to many conferences before, not just in the sports betting space. Some of them are complete duds. Some of them you walk away from and you're like what a complete waste of money. To me, you get as much out of a conference as what you're willing to put in. In a lot of instances For me, I've always found these valuable. 

29:06
I will continue to go to Bet Bash. I would actually argue it is my favorite week of every year. Now, the reasons for me may not be the same for other people, but I get to meet up with a lot of friends. I get to chat with other people. I get to network. People come away from this event with new accounts. They come away from it with new knowledge. Some come away from it with jobs as well, which happens so at the end of the day. 

29:30
You know it's an $800 price tag, but it's supply and demand Like this is basic economics. If people don't pay $800 to attend the sports betting conference, then there ain't going to be one in the future. And guess what, every year year I go to bet bash I see the same people who are regularly attending. So obviously there's a large number of people who are getting value out of going to the conference every year. I like, I don't, I don't understand the, the complaints I, I, I really don't like. If you don't like it, don't go. This isn't like like selling sports betting picks to someone else. It's not. It's a false equivalency. That's not the same thing. You got to look on your face jeff. 

30:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
to say you don't understand the complaints, I think is a little like far. I also full disclosure, you know, because the internet, the internet's like a crazy place. There was a time where I had um a different perception of Spanky. I've gotten to know him better, I've gotten to speak to him. I've had other people I trust tell me stories. He could put his crown on this. 

30:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Josh's tweet I think is ridiculous and I don't Calling him a nobody in the betting world, like kind of dismisses the opinion right away that's absolutely ridiculous. 

30:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That being said, you have to be able to like, accept, for maybe not like the professional gambler pov, it does give the vibe of some fucking circle jerk. Sure, a hall of Hall of Fame. Yeah, like black tie only one year, like I remember, I went on a lot of rants Like right, and the return customers is proof in the pudding. Yes, people don't come back, they don't waste a weekend in the summer if they feel they're not getting something out of it. So that is probably the greatest thing it has is the retention of return customers. That speaks volume. I also to you get it out what you put in. That's fair. I did see the comments on this and you're able to get a lot out of it. Yeah, but you're also rob pozzola, yes, like some people are more willing to like, want talk with you, share something with you. 

31:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Those people get something out of the relationship as well. It's not like it all filters one way, so it's a two-way. But I know how a guy who's, I understand the hesitancy. 

31:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That being said, if it's just a reason to get out of town, get away from the wife and kids, sign up for the super contest. 

32:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
checks enough boxes, yeah I will say circa millions circa millions. No, it's okay, don't worry, that's what I meant, though yeah, I know what you I'm only sir. Well, there is a super contest it's just at the west gate and this event is at circa, so I'm just correcting. Don't worry, I'm happy you could sign up for both. You could sign up for both. 

32:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You could go, I'm not, I I think that this folds into kind of two types of people here. Like I think spanky wants more casual bettors, people who eight hundred dollars probably doesn't not necessarily doesn't make sense, but more you're paying eight hundred dollars to like have a good time, yes, and I could see like how someone would have a problem with that. Spend well. 

32:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like sorry to cut you off. If we go back to the first tweet, the first response, I think what the guy was getting at was cheapest ticket, 7.99. That doesn't like. You have hotel. You have airfare on top of it. For most people like you are looking at like a two thousand dollar week. If you want to gamble like, so it is, it is costly and I think that's tough for someone who's not going for business essentially. 

33:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But to me if you're a serious bettor and you're talking about Rob kind of gets it better. But I actually think there's the other side of the coin of if you're a not well-known bettor. It's hard for you to meet people. Rob isn't going to really make that many connections because he's already very connected versus someone who doesn't have many connections. 

33:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The thing is Rob's not going to give you time on the internet. If you're in front of him in person having a drink like you, will get something out of that. You're not going to get from him on Twitter. 

33:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Maybe this isn't a sales pitch for BetBash but you know who was on my speed networking last year back to back grp and so spanky had to have been trolling but if you, if you are a serious, better yeah and you come out of bet bash with literally one relationship, yeah, that is way past the ev of two thousand dollars, like way past it, and and you have the upside of six-figure relationships, absolutely if you find the right mover, the right person, the right originator, if you've got accounts. So, like I gotta be honest, I don't think $7.99 sounds expensive at all, honestly, because it's such a unique like concept if I'm like a total square, I could go to bet, bash and make a fortune, having my primed accounts yes, like going up a hundred percent. 

34:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That seems like a pretty advantage. 

34:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There are a lot of people who are like that, who are there every year where they're they're actually not. They're like, listen, I've actually lost so much money betting that I've I've run up some goodwill with these sports books. I need someone to partner with to bet and I, like I just don't want to take any risk anymore. That's a type of person that would exist at bet bash and that's not something like it's hard to advertise. That spank is like hey loser, yes yes, yeah, you don't want to put it out. 

34:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah come get some money back, but it'll cost you 800. Um yeah, so that's a. 

35:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's a whole other part of it there's a lot of this stuff that I don't get value out of. You know, like I tell spanky every year, sorry, like scavenger I'm not doing this like he says, rob, are you gonna do this? 

35:17
I'm like, listen, if you really need people to do a scavenger hunt, I'm, I'm your buddy, like I'll, I'll do it, but like I don't want to do a scavenger hunt in in vegas in the middle of the summer, right, a lot of these educational seminars again, not to be extremely arrogant, but a lot of the stuff that's being taught in seminars is not knowledge. Like his knowledge I already have right. 

35:40 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So people can buy their own drinks like who, who cares? No, I'm not knocking that Like. You're there for the connections. 

35:47
Sure you're getting some free drinks but someone's being like there's no value in that. I can buy my own bottle of Tito's. Yeah, of course you can. Yes, that's, it's not about that. I love Spanky Well like I think he's great. That being said, I feel like he could be going down a road to alienate some of you hardcore pro bettors. I think that happened long ago. To be honest with you, when he's in the spaces glad-handing Taylor Malthusis, come to bet bash speak. I think he like that would if I was one of you. Yeah, that would like. What the fuck is this spanky? No offense, he absolutely played nice with ryan elf. 

36:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, so did I, because for different well, just because I'm a good guy, I don't treat people like shit and don't get me wrong. 

36:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You guys all met at a dinner in Boston and if I meet you in person, I'm probably going to give you so much more grace when I want to shit on you Like tenfold. 

36:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, this was also long before the elephant. 

37:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Spanky probably saw with what was happening with the spaces around NFL playoffs, post post nfl playoffs, that like there's an audience here, yeah, that I can like cultivate some other pros or even some casuals. It was like a we joked. That spaces was like everyone, like the from the universe, yeah. So spank, like you know, spanky, in my opinion went like above and beyond until he finally said like fuck, I'm done with this. To to not like a like say something mean about elf or the spaces, because he felt that it would be very good for bet bash if he could pull from it. 

37:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I see, I think spanky rightfully knows that if he just is getting serious people in a room, that's kind of like all in the same place, that's kind of enough for that crew of serious bettors. Like just having everyone together is so valuable that that's just kind of enough. So I think it makes sense. But yeah, like last night when Spanky said there's a panel NFL preview with GRP and Zilbert, like I do If I was at Pash, like there's a zero percent chance I'm showing up for that. 

38:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But that's like, that's like the skit, that's like in the snl like you know how some conventions they'll do like a comedy like that is almost like the comedy hour of the convention. No one is taking that at face value. 

38:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I, I agree, but I do think it leans to like a bit of like the unseriousness sure, absolutely. 

38:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But but there's still value in that, like there's entertainment. Yes, I literally told like I, I'm gonna be doing something at bet bash this year. We'll announce that coming up shortly. But you know he's like what do you want from me? I'm like do not give me a time slot at the same time as grp. That's all I want. I do not want to be up against grp. And then you know what spanky said to me? Said, don't worry, rob grp said he wants to be at yours so there's no way he wants to go head to head with you either, which was fucking great, but I that would be the highest attended thing. 

38:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Oh yeah, 100 almost just for like theOMO of it, like there should be an open bar in that room for that, but it's the NFL preview panel like. 

39:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't know if that's really what that is, I don't know. 

39:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's the moonlighting title. 

39:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes of it, yeah all right, I just I just like that is incredible. I know I take issue with the. The people who like act like everyone who attends this event is getting duped. That's what really bothers me. There's like this notion of people are like oh, if you go to bet bash, you're getting duped, like spanky's making so much money off this event. Now listen whether this was true or not. 

39:40
Spanky has told me in the past that he's lost money on some of these bet bashes before he's broke even to to put on five open bar events for this amount of people to stadium, swim, watch, party with food. You have to rent out the circa um, like he. He would be making if he put his entire year worth uh towards being part of his betting team. He would make way more than what he's making off of bet bash. However, he is making a lot in the relationships that he's going to establish throughout the event. So that's like another thing. That's do the math, like just figure it out for yourself. Guy's not making a killing off of running bet impossible. 

40:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yes again like I'm an idiot. There's like the simple math of what he's putting on, how much it costs circa. 

40:29
Like I'm sure there's a relationship there and it's mutually beneficial it's a high-end casino, but there's no way they're like handing out their rooms and everything that they're putting their best foot forward for it, for nothing, like anyone that's thrown anything. Yeah, like a single live show, one episode podcast. Think about how much it costs to do anything. I don't think he is. I don't think he's paying for his kids to go to school on bet bash. There's like no chance no, definitely not. 

41:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right, keep it moving along here. This was a tweet that that I saw this week which actually had me laughing pretty hard, jacob. 

41:07 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Yeah, this is from Jay Parlay talking about the good old days of baseball betting, saying baseball was so easy. In 2023, zero research and I hit two to three home run parlays a week. Four to five total bases and hits plus runs plus RBIs were were free they were free they're free. What happened to the game I love, uh rob was was mlb. Was it free money back in 2023? 

41:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I can't even like. This is one of the dumbest tweets we've ever put out here. He would have been better off writing. Baseball was so easy in 97. I'd just parlay pedro and randy johnson yes like then I would be like okay, maybe, possibly yeah I could see how that works. Yeah, throw greg maddox on there. I could see how that three banger would hit for you. This is I miss the boat on baseball being easy in 23 well, I will say, with Jay Parlay. 

42:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I very quickly looked at his profile, which he had a Discord server and he had a Dub Club profile. So I guess his success in baseball in 2023 parlayed that into being able to sell plays nowadays and potentially a Discord. But what I see a lot, jay Parlay, it's a really dumb tweet. I do see a lot, jay parley, it's a really dumb tweet. I do see a lot of these types of tweets of like, oh, it was so easy. I can tell you, baseball was not easy to win at in 2023. It was like still a very highly efficient market with a lot of people betting into it. Um, that had success. What the problem is is a lot of casual recreational bettors do not understand what variance is and how you can actually win, even for a longer period of time, and still not have an edge, and what Jay Parlay very likely experienced because he was doing zero research was a very positive run of variance, which was just luck. 

43:08
It was all luck, and now what he's experiencing is the luck running out. That's all. 

43:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is that's what happens, but the average casual better does not understand the role of variance in sports betting yeah, like there's a conversation to be had of markets getting more efficient, maybe, but this is just not what he's saying. Like he's literally saying zero research and I hit two to three home run parlays a week. I like how he says what happened to the game I love. 

43:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like the game still exists. It's still the same game. 

43:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's not like there aren't home runs anymore, like you're just not clicking the right ones. I guess Like what does he want to change in baseball so he can do zero research and hit home run parlays? I just this is one where I would love to get Jay Parlay in the room and really try sussing out what he actually possibly thinks here. But yeah, this is just an insane tweet what? 

44:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
like I don't want to sound like zalbert, but like I want to see his documented 23. Yeah, like what do you think he even did in 23? 

44:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
well, he did zero research, jeff, and he was hitting two to three home run parlays a week. I don't even know how many was betting at that time, do we don't have any indication of of what the payouts were on that. 

44:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He has a memory of like two or three, five great winners and I guarantee you he got his ass kicked in 2023. 

44:31 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
If there's a lack of record keeping. This is an easy way to string people along who are like tailing the picks now that aren't winning. It's like well, I've done this before, so you just wait until I get hot again. Basically, like it's probably just keeping the people and stringing them along on a dub club. Essentially. 

44:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like it's baseball. Of course you get hot. 

44:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, exactly. But every sport, it doesn't matter. It's a very long season, a lot of games. This is like the prototypical Nowadays. This is how the standard dub club WAP winnable capper starts. They start with some sort of hot streak. 

45:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Imaginary. 

45:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Imaginary past hot streak. When I say hot streak, I'm not talking about something that's repeatable, I'm just saying over a small sample. They either cash a big parlay, they win a bunch of bets. This is like the classic Jeff Rosa that they talked about on the Friday show, where then it just goes to shit and they're. They're left wondering what the hell? What happened to the game I love? Nothing happened. You just never were good at betting and you're starting to realize it now. That's what happened. That's what happened has nothing to do with the game you love. I mean this. This is just another iteration of a tweet I see many times out there. 

45:45 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
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46:46
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47:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right, we're going to get into some of your comments from last week. A reminder we do love all the feedback here on the show. Drop us a comment down below. We'll try to feature it on the show if we really enjoy it. At the very least, I try to respond to as many as possible. A lot of you have been asking about meetups as well and potentially doing some sort of hammer event. We do have that on the docket. We are going to schedule stuff like that, but in In the meantime me and Jeff are actually doing an event this summer. Me and Jeff appear on Mayo Media Network very often with Pat Mayo over the course of the football season and he's doing a live show in Toronto this summer, jeff. 

47:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, june 7th down at the Rec Room, come join us. I'll be there, pizzolo will be there. It's an opportunity to yell at me Like if you hate me, if you've threatened me, I'll buy you a drink. Yell at me like if you hate me. If you've threatened me, I'll buy you a drink. You can yell at me. We'll have a good time. We'll be a lot of fun. Totally like different orbit than um, than this show, but but quite a lot of characters and uh, yeah, like cam stewart will be there. For those that means anything to you. Me and rob been friends with cam forever. Can't remember I was in the last time, uh, in a room, him, so I don't know. It'll be a lot of hijinks. It'll be a lot of hijinks, but if anyone in the comments who thinks I'm an idiot wants to tell me that to my face now's your chance? 

48:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Absolutely. We'll drop that link down in the comment description below. It's in Toronto. If you do want to take part in that, it is on June 7th. Looking forward to seeing a bunch of you out there who already messaged me on the side letting me know that you're coming On to comments for this week. Usually we feature YouTube comments. This one came from Circles Off HQ. It was a response to a video clip where we were talking about the Dub Club business model. So Justin said, unless I'm missing something, dub Club as a company doesn't come out and say every person on their site is profitable. It would be misleading if they did so right away. So your take is wrong. They're praising their top sellers, which in my opinion I agree with you guys is wrong because the goal is to win money on picks. As a profitable gambler, my service gets way less attention than many losing gamblers on their site. Overall, I don't believe in all of their practices, but they are definitely improving. 

49:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I do need glasses and it's a little blurry, but if I'm seeing correctly, there is a Dub Club signage next to this guy's name on his Twitter account. Yeah, like this is just a ridiculous tweet. Their company slogan is win more together. Yeah, they clearly imply that if you come to their site, we are going to win together and, like we talked about last week, they don't have tracking on their site. So I don't know, like I don't think any of us ever said that that Dub Club explicitly says every person on their site wins. Every person on their site wins. But dub club clearly makes their users think that if you come to their site, you'll win money and they don't actually take any steps to ensure that happens. 

50:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think that's what we said last week dub club facilitates their the cappers on there to false advertise. Anyone can be a winner. Everyone is a yes. There's no ability to tell someone who isn't a winner that they aren't yes, Because they'll just say they are, and there's no ability to go about it other than like a he said, she said Correct. When it is like it is the simplest, easiest thing to prove if you are a winner or not. Yes. 

50:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
The issue is not that they are literally lying, it's the false illusion that they are exactly what you referenced, like the first sentence of this right. Unless I'm missing something. Dub Club as a company doesn't come out and say every person on their site. It's like it would be like me opening up a restaurant called like Michelin star eats and I serve a bunch of TV dinners but there's like one Michelin star plate and like I'm like. Well, not, you know, I didn't claim all of the eats were Michelin star eats. Like the. The logic is completely flawed. But you get it. You see why he is a dub club seller. 

51:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He is seller, he is a pick seller and most pick sellers they have this reaction when you call out pick sellers. There's so many things that like take a serious amount of effort to prove yes. Like if I, you know, if you say someone says they have 119 iq, prove it, I'm right. No, you're not that. No, you're not. You know you'd have to facilitate a test, write the test, the results. There's a lot of steps. Like you just have a documented sheet and someone like Kirk, like Pizzola, even if you lost in the window, they could just see by your bets, they could just see the patterns within your bets to know whether you're full of shit or not. Not instantly, but relatively quick. 

52:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Justin is also like so close here. He's saying like they're praising their top sellers, which is wrong, because is the goal to win money or just make money selling picks? The goal is to make money selling picks. They don't care about people actually winning. He's like getting it, but it just hasn't clicked in his brain that that's all Dub Club cares about. Dub Club doesn't give a shit if the people win money. 

52:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's like when Spanky, to his credit, is like pretty much everyone who sells picks sucks. 

52:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, don't buy picks. 

52:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Right Granted? Sure, we all could agree. There's some exceptions, and this is one, like everyone on, dub Club sucks. And then there's like Dub Club, like I'm one of the good ones, I'm actually one of the guys who doesn't suck. I'm not saying justin does. Maybe he's crushing it, but it's easy to. 

52:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's not hard to facilitate, proving that you're crushing it. Yeah, that'll lead us into some of the youtube comments, I believe the first one we have here. Yeah, this is uh vika's mayakar 13. This pod has sadly started to sound like the Gaming Commission of World Wide Web. Stop holding folks to your moral standards. I thought this would fit in nicely right after the Dub Club conversation. I think the point he's trying to make here is like who are you to be the gatekeepers of gambling? Twitter type of situation. That's what I took away from this. 

53:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It has sadly start to sound like the gaming commission of World Wide Web, stop holding folks to your If people are scamming their clients. 

53:38 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
We're going to call them out 100%. This is basic consumer protection People need to be held accountable in the gambling space. 

53:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We're not allowed to share our opinions. That's the whole purpose of the show. I never understand these comments. That's the whole purpose of the show. 

53:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I never understand the whole purpose of the show I just don't understand if he's saying, like you know, it's still the wild west like gambling on the internet, like it's sort of an anything goes and like it's just darwin like survival of the fittest. 

54:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think so no, that's not how I operate. I like to talk about this stuff. 

54:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I would like this guy to write out his thoughts in a longer form comment, because I don't understand it. 

54:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But whose moral standards? Maybe you can feature it in Kirk's Hammer. 

54:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Absolutely, but whose moral? 

54:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
standards. Are you supposed to hold someone to if not your own? 

54:23 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I agree, Jeff. I entirely agree. Stop holding folks to moral standards. I mean, that's what we do as a society. 

54:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
We hold folks to moral standards. All I'm saying is why spend money on her pics when you could save that money and spend $9 a month and have a full library of a girl's? 

54:44 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
OnlyFans. 

54:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Did you do it on purpose? No, he didn't. No, no, I saw your face where you realized you did it. 

54:53 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
If you didn't correct yourself, I would have thought it was on purpose. 

54:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like it's all in front of you. Imagine this. I have a speech impediment. 

55:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What do you want from me? Imagine this existed in another industry, right? Let's say, for example, you're like a food critic. I don't. 

55:09
I'm using food a lot today but you're a star eats credit and you go to a restaurant and you watch the chef take something out of the garbage can and put it on someone's plate and go and serve it like you have an own it. You're holding someone to a standard. You have an onus to to speak on that. In my opinion, right like why would you just sit back and be like, well, whatever's going to happen is going to happen? Like that's not how the world operates. It's like if people are outwardly scamming other people, it's fair to call that into question and not just say, well, let them do whatever they want. That's insane behavior, in my opinion. 

55:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean, maybe I don't, but you have every right to comment on everyone has every right. I just said like your expertise is gambling, you have every right to say anything you want here all right appreciate that if you wanted to do a show about, like, if you were acting like an expert on roofing yeah, I'm not gonna do that then it'll be like what the hell is pazola doing? 

56:13 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
it also says started to sound like. 

56:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean, the show's been very similar to day one maybe I have to go back and listen to like episode three and see what the evolution has been. Have we gotten like nastier over time, do you think? 

56:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't know. We were nasty off the top. Trust me, I got. We might have gotten less nasty. 

56:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I got criticized last night for being too nice on here. 

56:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think honestly, one of the first episodes was Taylor Mathis' crypto scam. 

56:37 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
We went hard. That might have been week two. That was like a lawsuit threat episode. 

56:42 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That was our first lawsuit threat episode too. 

56:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But when he says the Gaming commission, like in some ways that's hyper insulting, because you watch videos of some of those commission conversations, yeah, and they're really bad and they're like the most pathetic things on earth yeah, well, vikas, if I'm pronouncing that correctly. 

57:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Uh, kirk wants your full rationale as to what I want on. 

57:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I want to know more. I thought that was. I didn't understand that comment. Jim H 3595. 

57:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I try to shit at the airport before I get on the plane. Words to live by Absolutely, yeah, I mean listen, like you, don't want to go on the plane. You can help it. 

57:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah. 

57:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I feel like this is like a good standard for anything you're going to be doing for a while, that that you don't have access to a great bathroom. I'm with you. I'm with you. Even better, do it at home before you get to the airport. Truth, you know. This reminds me of really really old seinfeld episode where I think george is trying to come up with a app. Maybe this was on kirby, hear me out. 

57:44
It was mentioned on a Seinfeld episode that George knows where every washroom is in the city. Yes, and then I think in the Seinfeld reunion season of Curb one of the schticks was George was coming up with an app to locate the best washrooms. Does that actually exist or not? It's a good idea, because I think that's a great idea. Like the cleanliness the ratings. Like you don't want to be here, but it's there if you need it. 

58:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This building has a couple outstanding washrooms. Yeah. 

58:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You know the concourse level, like the, bottom floor yeah. 

58:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But, also the best ones are on the third floor. 

58:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
How did you make it to the third floor? We used to are on the third floor. How did you make it to the third floor? We used to work on the third floor. We used to work in this building, so. 

58:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I know the building and the third floor is like conference rooms and like middle of the day just empty. It was a place to go. 

58:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's a beautiful feeling. You ever use the handicap washroom on the third floor. I could see by your face that you have no, sorry, the third like. 

58:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Was that the floor we were on? Yeah, sorry, when I said third floor, I meant the floor like that's just right on top of the like front desk. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the mezzanine. Yeah, sorry, mezzanine. Like 8 to like 3 am like I worked like a late night shift so for sure I rocked the handicap washroom but I never got our boy got like booked in the handicap washroom from the wheelchaired employee. 

59:18 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's a tough scene, that's a nightmare so, uh, the ceo of the score was john levy. Uh, great guy. Uh loved working under John and team. But when we were in this building, which we're recording out of now, we had the third and fourth floor, and the fourth floor was like upper management. 

59:38
IT sales and digital. Third floor was radio and TV. Fourth floor, john had a massive office and he had his own private bathroom, which he never used. He would go into the main hallway bathroom and he would be in like a stall and he would just talk to you like while you're washing your hands or taking a leak, but he would be in that. But when he used to leave for the day, people used to use his bathroom because it was like 11 out of 10. It was like the costanza play-up bathroom, like private or whatever executive washroom. It was the executive washroom that was very desired, very desired. Back in the day he no new no, I had no idea someone might send this to me to have a good laugh. That's crazy, but he never used his own private bathroom. Anyways, he was just one of us. That was what was great for working by the the way, I did look it up, if the app exists. 

01:00:32 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
There are actually a few apps that exist that do this. One in particular is designed for people with bowel conditions so that they can quickly and conveniently find a restroom, but a few of these do exist. So, yeah, the idea has been thought of. I don't know how popular these are. 

01:00:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, the fact that I haven't downloaded one ever yet, maybe it's not actually even really a good idea. Maybe we think it's more useful than it is. It's not that hard to find a bathroom. 

01:00:58 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
It depends where you are In this part of Toronto, you're not going to have an issue, really. 

01:01:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But a lot of places like the Wendy's across the street the bathroom is locked because you downtown there's a homeless situation. Yeah, addicts, yeah, yeah you know, they're just looking for a place to hang out. 

01:01:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What are you gonna do? Uh, do we? I think we have one more here. Yeah, one more, one more. Um, all right, yeah, john, here for the rivalry between the tuesday and friday shows, I want to say I'm gonna put this to bed. At least I believe I going to speak on our behalf. The Tuesday show has no issue with the Friday guys. Zero. I think the Friday show is great. They seem to have an issue with Canadian culture a lot. There's a lot of. You know well, kanish seems to have an issue with everyone. I stick up for Canada on the show. 

01:01:45
But like I don't know, Do we? I don't really have an issue with the. 

01:01:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm not sure if it's still a thing, but Nadeau might hate me. 

01:01:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I think he might've moved on. 

01:01:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, it seems like he does move on. 

01:01:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's the thing. He's probably also like an elephant, like he doesn't forget. So if something else came up, there would probably be residual. 

01:02:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I be residual. I like them all a lot same. Yeah, I don't know. I know like we occasionally take some jabs here or there, but that's like what friends do to one another, right? I don't. I don't consider it a rivalry personally. I think they might, because they're like they were the second team, you know. They tried to elevate themselves by calling themselves the a team. Whatever we'll give it to them, you know like let them have it. 

01:02:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Kanish also plays like psychologist on you. 

01:02:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh yeah, yeah, I was going to mention that in Return Fire We'll save that. 

01:02:37 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
We'll save that. Let's just do it now. Let's hit it right now All right, return Fire Really quickly. 

01:02:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We're going to hit this. The one thing that fucking drives me crazy about that show is every single Rob we have no beef with this show. 

01:02:52
Then, a minute later, the one thing no, the show's very entertaining, but Jacob introduces a topic and it's about someone in the space. Kanish immediately says what I think of that person. He's like oh, I'm pretty sure Pizzola fucking can't stand this, or Pizzola is always liking this. I don't know where he's getting his information from. You can just dismiss that. It's not real. That's the only. That's the big issue. Like when we intro a topic, I'm not like. Well, flop once said this guy is a piece of shit, like it doesn't matter to the conversation. That's the big issue. So, whatever Kanish says that I think about a person, I would say disregard. But aside from that, I there's not much. I know they wanted to get the last word in on the gorilla. Fine, let them have the gorilla argument. That's okay. Aside from that, I didn't have an issue with last week's show. 

01:03:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Friday show I've seen a lot of murmuring about um flop stutter yes is the hammer willing to pay for speech pathology? 

01:03:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Hooked on phonics, I guess Would have been the thing back in the day. That's what makes him him he stutters. Let the guy stutter through the show. If it bothers you that much, don't watch it. What do you want me to tell you? No, I agree, I like all of that he flips it great better and he's a one-time contest winner as well. Yeah, I don't know that doesn't even bother me. 

01:04:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I like the show I have. No, there's nothing I want to say. All right, this is the lamest return fire ever, but the well. Yes, it would be. It would suck if we like. Forced it. I don't like. 

01:04:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, hijacked a thing that doesn't bother me, just for engaging made it seem like it bothers me. 

01:04:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
When something they say bothers me, I will probably care more than I should and you guys will find out. 

01:04:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right. Speaking of being bothered, this one's in the rundown because Jeff was bothered when he saw it on Twitter. I thought this was good and he said Rob, I don't put my foot down too often on topics, but I want this one in next week's show. 

01:04:47 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
go ahead, jacob so trav at he hate me, two underscore, zero, good good account to follow gambling. Twitter says uh, it's commenting on the nba top shot state. So, quote, tweeted something from peter jennings which said remember how stupid everyone thought nba top shot was. People love to mock other others for things they don't understand. This is from, uh, february 2021. And then trav, quote tweeted this by saying or took a screenshot and said it was the blend of arrogance and condescension for a clear and obvious grip. For me, peter still wasn't as bad as bale's, though. Last reference to these nfts was may of 2022. So talk about how everyone thought it was so stupid making fun of them and then, 15 months later, tweets about it for the very, very last time. 

01:05:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, so Peter Jennings has been interviewed on this channel before, jonathan Bales has not, and I think he's doing some sort of AI type of betting product right now in the space. He's kind of jumped from product to product after his time at Sports Insights and with Action Network as well. But what was it specifically, jeff, that got? Because I have some opinions on this as well. 

01:05:56 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It was just a great memory lane, yeah, being on the internet during that. They're all so smart, all of the guys, all of them that got caught up in this, and I'm not dumb enough to assume even the smartest guys in the room bat a thousand. Even Bill Gates tried to make a phone. It didn't work. They abandoned it. That being said, it is undeniable front-running. 

01:06:27
I had to believe they knew had high levels of ponzi vibes, okay, and they, like front, ran it to the moon and their audience rob, like you put it on a lot of people. You don't like to give out a. You don't even like to give me, your friend, a pick on a football game because you're like, oh fine, like, if I tell him this, it's like 15 cents off and I'll still want to bet it. You don't even want to give it to me and I'm like your friend who you know could lose an extra 88 dollars in juice. He doesn't give a shit. But you won't tweet a pick right, because you know people will take that seriously. But there were three of, like, the highest level respected people in the dfs space front running a ponzi and they're fucking collectors and I know that means maybe they collect everything. 

01:07:17
No, there were so many red flags to this thing you could have just hypothetically, because it was my rant at the time. I get it like if a lebron or a first overall pick people wanted to do that. It was so beyond that. It was like an anderson varajow nft was going for more than you could buy a game used. Anderson varajow nba playoff game worn jersey. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not like a collecting expert, but I've been in and out of collecting my whole life so I have some aspects of it and it was ridiculous. And now I've turned it into maybe complaints about them as to like ranting on top shot, but you will have a hard time convincing me. They weren't. They didn't know. There was a high probability. They were front running like a bubble ponzi okay. 

01:08:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So I'm definitely in the minority here and I would say that you're in the majority when it comes to the belief amongst gambling twitter and there's definitely personal biases that are involved in this because I love peter jennings. I think he's great. I've always liked peter preston. Johnson, sports cheetah was a very good friend of mine. He made so much money off of nfts that he was able to buy an English soccer team. Okay, Made a killing. I don't think he has a harmful bone in his entire body. Jonathan Bales I don't know Bales well, other than I bet on him to do a bunch of push-ups and he cashed me money. Harmful bone. 

01:08:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
These are faceless things on the internet to people you don't even know. 

01:08:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But my, it's not like I don't throw in water on a homeless person, so I challenge the, the mass opinion, that these guys knew it was a grift I didn't say no, I said they're smart enough to know high probability. 

01:09:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It was a bubble right, a hard one. 

01:09:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, maybe, but but they were wrong. I mean, and people get things wrong like so I got this wrong. I mean, I bought top shots because of a jonathan bale's article where he kind of explained how he thought like digital tokens were the way of the future. I'm like you know what. This kind of makes some sense to me. Bale's is putting his own money behind it. I'm gonna put some of my own money behind it. And you might say, well, that's problem right there, the fact that he put that out to the public. A lot of people made decisions based off that, and maybe you're right about that. But I genuinely believe all of these guys got high on their own supply, like that's what happened, because I did the same thing. 

01:09:41
I was fucking recording myself opening packs and posting it to Twitter. I'm like, oh, I got an og ananomi serial number seven or whatever I. I also got high on my own supply and then the market crashed and I lost a bunch of money in top shots. Luckily I was in some other nfts. I still got my crypto punk 6016 cigarette gold chain the dumbest purchase ever but it's worth a lot, hell of a lot more than I. So it kind of balanced out. But I I think the general sentiment is that a lot of these guys that got in early they knew that it was a grift and I don't think they did. I think they genuinely believe griff's not the word. 

01:10:21
I never said grift okay, so maybe that's I'm pushing that's like way too strong of a word. 

01:10:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You said ponzi, a strong possibility of like a big bubble Ponzi, yes, like on the cusp of it. Yes, there were too many smart guys involved in this group for that not to have been part of their off-air conversations. They're all too bright. They're all. They're so bright, they're so bright. And what's funny is like if we did this show three years ago, we'd have come back from Christmas, and there was one Christmas day where two Jews were yelling at each other on Twitter me and Levitan, who I love, and he wasn't even a part of this, but I was wasted watching something on Christmas and the Top Shot thing came up. I've since, like, apologized to Adam for that day. It would have been a great segment on this show in its moment, in real time. But no, there's something just doesn't it just doesn't pass the smell test. 

01:11:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
And I get like smart guys make bad investments, bad investments well, that's what. Could it? Could it just be as simple as a bunch of smart guys thought that digital collectibles were the next big thing, and they were wrong it was a bunch of smart guys that tried to buy a honus wagner, just missed and they did something else and they pushed it. 

01:11:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yes, that is, I'm sorry. I will say sorry like sorry. 

01:11:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I will say this about like this Peter Jennings tweet that was quote, tweeted here right when you promote something with arrogance, you open yourself up to mockery, plain and simple. And I think that happened and a lot of people saw these people getting rich quickly and they were openly rooting for them to fail quickly and they were openly rooting for them to fail and when it did happen, it was so easy to pile on and dump on because of the arrogance behind all of the early adopters in that community. But I do challenge people who believe that they were just pumping this or like promoting it because they wanted, like, like they were trying to grift people and leave other people holding the bag. They were promoting it, like I said, I think, high on your own supply. It happens with drug dealers. You like it had momentum. 

01:12:37
It's the same people who accuse me which I take issue with of like promoting Elf. I wasn't promoting Elf, it was just really popular in the space. Everyone was following the Elf show and we were all in it. It's like something to talk about. I never said promoting them how? 

01:12:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
like having them on the circles off? Sure it was like what's promoting being in the spaces talking about it on this show. 

01:12:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, like there's no ulterior motives here. 

01:13:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You've interviewed worse people, oh definitely 100 there's some very shameful ones, which there there was a moment in time where he was a bit of an unknown but a fascinating character and for the moment for which you interviewed him, I think it was very warranted. 

01:13:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
At the end of the day, I just view this as a master class in being loud and wrong. Basically is what I see it as. But definitely listen. I know jennings. I think he's a great dude. Preston like I love preston. 

01:13:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Anyone who knows preston like I man, there's no malintent there I understand that, but I also think it's like a really unfair and almost pretentious place. Like to them it's like a victimless crime yeah you know what I mean. Like you are just promoting, like you're not seeing the face of the guy who lost it, like it is so and I'm, I'm not, I don't, they're all good people, like I've had, uh, I've spoken to peter, the most probably like, uh, like I don't think I've ever spoken to Chester the Cheetah what. 

01:14:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Sorry, I mean yeah. So that's Cheetos Sports, cheetah, sports, cheetah. 

01:14:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Preston Johnson. Yeah, I'm sure he's an incredible guy, but it's not like you're making it. Like you know, he's spinning on someone walking by the street. These are like faceless crimes to be promoting and creating and inflating the prices and they get. I agree with you. I think I? 

01:14:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I honestly wasn't. I lost a little bit of money on top shop, but I wasn't really around gambling twitter to see what these guys did. But I agree with jeff in the sense of like. People often say like, oh, like x is a good guy, but like, I think you're a good guy by doing good things. You're not like this inherent good guy. You might be like nice to your friends, but like, I think you're a good guy by doing good things. You're not like this inherent good guy. You might be like nice to your friends, but like, if you do shitty things, then that like could result in you being a shitty guy, even if you didn't have that intention of doing something shitty. So, like, when you're in the area of like financial advice, I think you should tread very carefully, and this tweet does not look like treading very carefully but, but even if it was by omission of being high on your own supply, like, I don't really look at that as like a great excuse. 

01:15:16
Obviously it's better than if they were like being super deliberate about it. But yeah, like I do think that falls into like a shitty area of thing to do yeah, the, the totality of them as a group. 

01:15:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
To like dfs people was like the mega powers is like hogan and macho teaming up and if you weren't around for it you can't understand it. Yeah, it was like so powerful right and a level of credibility that is so rarely like seen in unison. 

01:15:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

01:15:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So maybe, like the fall on this is harder because of how high their self-included, how highly regarded and hyper Like. To call these individuals successful would be a gross understatement. Mm-hmm, yeah, 90% of what these guys touch turned to gold and this thing didn't. 

01:16:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't. I think I truly, when I look back on it all, I do think it was the level of arrogance and cockiness, because a lot of people were like calling them out and it just continued to rise. But they're also collectors. Yeah. 

01:16:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So I didn't understand it. A lot of them are collectors in other things, cards or memorabilia, so for them to be playing along, like I said, there were so few players are worth something truly. And then there's the players in collectibles that you're like prospecting, yeah, and these things were selling for values that, like the highest end other market collectibles they were dwarfing them. 

01:17:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Jeff, I paid like I'm. I don't know the exact amount, so don't quote me on this, but I think I paid something like 5k for a darius garland jump shot because I was reaching out to people. I'm like who's gonna be the like a big guy? So that's prospect, yeah exactly that and I'm still sitting on it right now. I'll figure out what I paid for that, but it feels 5k, feels right. 

01:17:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, like two cents, but look, I can't act like I knew well, because I actually did lose a little bit of money, like probably in the, as Zilbert would say, the three figures. But that was the point I was making at the time of like I remember, like an Avicii Zubats cart, Like to me, Darius Garland going for 5K is less egregious than Avicii Zubat going for 40. Because I don't know that much about collecting but I know it's a massive tale of there are cards that are worth a million dollars but 99.999% are worth seven sets. 

01:18:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, like I said, and that stuck out like a sore thumb that Verage out thing, because I mean it, I'm not even speaking hyperbolically. On that Verage out thing, because I mean it, I'm not even speaking hyperbolically. His top shots were going for more than a game-used worn playoff jersey, a National Treasures one-of-one on-card auto, nothing added up. 

01:18:23 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I get it. Well, that was one throwback. We're going to do another one here. Uh-oh, it's a little bit of a surprise to both you, jeff and Kirk. Betlab Analytics says Guys, I've been here since 2011,. Right along with Jeff Nadeau, we're pioneers of gambling Twitter and belong in the Twitter Hall of Fame. If ever a play I would put my reputation to go all in it's Cavs minus seven. They will embarrass Indiana by double digits. This was game two. The Cavs lost outright. They did not cover the spread. In fairness to BetLab Analytics, he took it on the chin. He said roast me, I deserve it. 

01:19:02
But BetLab Analytics for those that don't know, that profile picture is a man named christopher love, who used to be tweety dimes on twitter. One tweet that caught my eye was this particular one, which was a response to the, a tweet from former junior that says tweety dimes was the original grp. It was a simpler time. Was the original GRP? It was a simpler time. And you know what? No tweet has ever hit the nail on the head more than this. Those who don't know, tweety Dimes was the OG GRP. So what I've done for you guys is I've reached out to a bunch of people on Twitter. I went to Trav. He hate me, john Warner, brian Slim, rice, storm Pig, aj and Jobo, and they've provided historical documentation of old Tweety Dimes tweets. Now Tweety Dimes ended up partnering with someone that stole his account and locked him out of all this stuff, so he had to rebrand as BetLab Analytics. Nobody even really followed. He's like kind of irrelevant in modern day Twitter. 

01:20:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
When did? 

01:20:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
BetLab start Right around COVID times Roughly around COVID times and you're just finding out. It's him I've known for a while, but he just doesn't tweet the way he used to Like. There was mid, like 2014 to 2019, was the true Tweety heyday. He's Philly area guy. He knew Jeff Nadu, jeff Nadu's also in and around that region. They used to tweet at each other and stuff. So, anyways, these are the most popular ones. Every single one of these tweets that I go through, I'm reliving another day of my life. Okay, so we're going to start with baseball. Tweety, which was a big one. This was his sport baseball. Okay, with baseball Tweety, which was a big one. This was his sport baseball. Okay, so I watched every inning of every game. This year, I have nothing other than Nationals Dodgers battling it out in the NL for the World Series, but what Gambling Twitter picked up on at the time is that he watched every inning of every game in baseball that year. Impossible, which is statistically very improbable to do. 

01:21:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Off the bat like George wouldn't lie like that. Okay, George wouldn't. George, he wouldn't. He gets caught lying. He loses track of how many times he's had the cinnamon apple pancakes. Yes, but he would never say that. 

01:21:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay, tweet number two. Like you, I like how you're drawing the comparisons already. Uh, we have to play nelson cruz. This was in dfs jahap through 2000 fastballs 91 percent or slower than 93 miles an hour. Nelson cruz has 40 home runs versus fast balls 93 or slower. Casey bubba responds they play on the same team, so I don't see how that's relevant His response. Good point, bubba. I was just reading off numbers. But thanks, that's a very confusing one. 

01:22:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm a big fan of Bubba, that is. 

01:22:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't even know what to mean. I would also say that someone who watched every inning of every baseball game probably wouldn't get this confused. 

01:22:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, should know which teams they're on. Baltimore, from minus 152 to minus 185. Last to minus 205. Linemakers don't know what they're doing, they just throw any number out there anymore. David DeMann responds pitching change for Oakland. Don't know what they're doing, they just throw any number out there anymore. 

01:22:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
david demand responds pitching change for oakland like I see what you're saying, but I'm not gonna lie like grp is a much more aware fan okay, so you're seeing differences in awareness already. Yeah like grp is much more up to date on like transactions or those sorts of things as it relates to, say, the nfl weekly grind all right, we're gonna keep it going. 

01:22:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Another baseball one here, as we're in the baseball category. This one happened in 2017. Prop bet most total bases ozuna plus vato minus 115 over bets plus nelson cruz three units winner. Terence says not hating, just wondering how this is a winner. Vato walked pretty sure that's not counted as a total base. And then tweety dimes does believe that walks count for, uh, total basis you see, like george is reading the rule, like he's reading the um no, no, there was one tweet, remember he had. 

01:23:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Uh, yeah, no, he was like. 

01:23:27 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
I hope this means they win the western conference. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I hope this means they win the Western Conference. 

01:23:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I hope this means that it's the playoffs. 

01:23:33 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
He had like 1500 on it, or something? 

01:23:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, it was the Clippers and he then was worried that it meant like they need to get the first seed. 

01:23:43 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, so that is pretty similar. 

01:23:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, this was in 2017 and then what happened was, a few years later, he made the exact same mistake. First play crosses the finish line. Raphael Devers over one and a half bases. Winner Slim says how and he said because he scored. That's four bases. Wait, that's way worse. 

01:24:06 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
So he got a single and then got brought home. That's so way worse. So he got a single and then got brought home. 

01:24:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's so much worse, that's worse than thinking the walk counted as a base. Way worse. 

01:24:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This isn't even close. 

01:24:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He did watch every inning of every game though. 

01:24:19 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But nobody would, not even a novice better would think that, and I'm also going to defend GRP again and to say the Clippers thing was basketball which is like his hyper niche thing that he sometimes dabbles into because he's a gambling addict Not the only one. We all have got a dark passengers where we'll bet sports. We don't really know that much. 

01:24:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
This guy makes it like baseball is his absolute wheelhouse you watched every inning of every game in the year, and then this is the last baseball tweet. I love Bryce Harper so much I'll let him fuck my girl for an autographed baseball. Just that's it. That's the entire tweet. Very weird, uncomfortable tweet. 

01:25:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like you could. You could probably you could have in 17 bought a Bryce Harper autographed ball for 125 bucks so it seems pretty extreme. 

01:25:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, it's very out there. 

01:25:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Does he get to reclaim her after Bryce? 

01:25:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I was sorry, I just done sloppy seconds. I don't know if we want to go there. Next three tweets are personal beef Tweety sloppy seconds. I don't know if we want to go there. Next three tweets are personal beef Tweety. This was when he called out pro football talk for being fake ass reporting fake ass news, and pro football talk responded saying only thing fake. Here is your record, which honestly might've been one of Florio's like best this is ever. This is when he was still very much aware of of what he was doing. 

01:25:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Florio was at a level where he could, like, wasn't big enough, where he couldn't read his replies right. This was still in a sweet spot where he was big, yeah, but still on a level where, like, if he wanted to, he could see he could play in his mentions. 

01:26:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Now he's just just it would be impossible. It's impossible now to respond to everyone. 

01:26:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Unless you're Elf. 

01:26:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Want to see Black Panther, but I'll catch a matinee while everybody at work and school. Fuck that LOL. Chuggett said how about skipping the matinee and attending school? And he responded how about I fuck your mom while your dad's at work? 

01:26:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Pretty extreme, your mom while your dad's at work pretty extreme, but back in the day, this kind of stuff, man, this is what gambling twitter was all about. This is that's like going from zero to a hundred george would never do that. 

01:26:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
George would never go like his. He would never tweet about fucking your mom while your dad's at work. That's just like way over the top. This next one I didn't think of for a long time, but if you actually look so, tweety dimes lost 13 units that day and told people to chill out on losing 13 units churn off responded well, to be fair, 13 units is 13 of bankroll, not sure. Telling people to chill after losing 13 of a bankroll in a day is the best way to go about this. He said suck my dick pussy, your girl too. I can say whatever the fuck I want you fake ass linus without his blanket looking motherfucker. But I I was reviewing all these things. I'm like holy shit. He went after turnoff. This is back in 18, man Back in 2018. We now have Offensive Tweety Think I found my Halloween costume, maybe a little offensive, but still kind of dope. This is him dressed as a terrorist. He has Jagermeister bottles taped onto his vest. Here, jagger bomb. 

01:27:46 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Yeah. Oh, I see You're the last one, yeah, don't, don't don't go. If you're looking at this thinking that's cool, don't do this no, exists on the internet forever. 

01:27:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What other offensive stuff did he have going on here? 

01:28:01 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
oh, yes, oh, this is don't say the word I blocked. 

01:28:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, oh my colby big and Jameis Winston all win a ring in a year. They were accused of R-word, r-word. Whoa, I hope Michael Carter Williams R-words someone next. 

01:28:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Michael Carter Williams an actor Is that a basketball player? 

01:28:20 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
No, he played for the 76ers at the time he was a second overall pick, I think. 

01:28:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, no, no, he's later. He was like 11, but he won rookie okay, that's what it was, sorry his career went downhill after like a strong rookie. Yeah, philly traded him and got off, uh like at a high point, but yeah, this was also in a time where, like people didn't realize that you, that tweeting the most insane things ever could have repercussions. 

01:28:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I feel like 2014 15 retweets 15, that would be a huge amount of retweets in 2014. Yeah, that like went hugely viral for all the wrong reasons obviously. 

01:28:54 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Um, yeah this is an insane reply that's funny shit, yeah exactly, it certainly is not. 

01:29:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Um, and then, uh, he was beefing with nadu for a time and nadu made up a story well, I've been able to piece this together that tweety dimes drives an uber and he was very upset that he made up this story, where I've been able to piece this together that tweety dimes drives an uber and he was very upset that he made up this story about nadu driving an uber. Sorry that nadu made this up about driving an uber and this has nothing to do with like. This is not a funny tweet in and of itself. Maybe it is jeff's laughing a little bit, but he's like trying to like defend himself. 

01:29:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It actually kind of like you know how we were kids. Be like your mom works at mcdonald's, like that was like the joke to now, I guess. 

01:29:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like your mom drives doordash right, like yes, uh, we move on to a conspiracy tweety. Uh, not quite as bad as the offensive one, jeff for fret. Then there's a rival. 

01:29:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They made up, they've made up, now I, I think I mean we've all been there with Nadeau and now like ride or die. 

01:29:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
And now we're all Nadeau crew. I don't watch tennis, but why is Venus Williams, a 10 seed, an underdog To a 14 seed? Let me find out. They set traps in tennis too. He is convinced that Traps were being set in tennis because the lower seeded player favored over the higher seeded one Classic, casual. That traps were being set in tennis because the lower-seeded player favored over the higher-seeded one Classic, casual, better. 

01:30:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, that's the most classic. Yes. 

01:30:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Somebody asked where he thinks Greek Freak is from. In reference to Giannis, he's not from America. Please tell me you don't think he's from where he just had his first soda of his life just two months ago. This guy's trying to explain to him that the greek freak is like what is greek is greek and he's like he's not from america. He just had a soda. It's like that's the point, tweety. He's like, you know, a little bit mentally, uh out there and then, uh, he couldn't do a write up today because he had to test run his antonio brown vaccination card at the sportsbook and make sure it works first. Fingers crossed, he's on his way. Oh, this is 2022. He was still around. You know what this might have been the new tweety faking to be the old tweety at the time. 

01:31:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
What is that? Oh, this was like covid, yeah, I think. 

01:31:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Basically he's trying to get into the sports book with a fake vaccination card. That's why I call it the Antonio Brown vaccination card. Oh, got it, which is kind of funny, but like also probably don't have to tweet about it either at some point or another. 

01:31:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Was he a tout, oh yes. We're going to get it Okay. 

01:31:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, he sold picks. The whole Tweety Dimes shtick was he's a pick seller and he lost multiple bankrolls over the year. God, the Complete Book of Sports Betting by Jack Moore is a recommendation to Tweety to read. He put nice, Is it relative to gambling? The book is called the Complete Book of Sports Betting by Jack Moore. 

01:31:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think it touches on the subject. 

01:31:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That took me way too long, I'll admit. 

01:31:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay, moore, in the peak stupidity he tweeted something and then responded saying Thanks, wayne, glad you got my back, let's keep cashing. Except, he responded from the Wayne account and forgot to log off Right on and log back in. He forgot to log off this account and forgot to log off Right on it and log back in. 

01:32:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You forgot to log off this account and back onto Tweety. 

01:32:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's a tough one. I mean, some people have been there before. Right, getting with the burners. A half point is only 20 cents. So all you people better not post a baseball, play minus 120 or more. Swear to God, I better not see it. It's the same thing. Tweety dimes, historically known to buy points in games off of three and off of seven for the 20 cents. So people telling him not to buy points, he's saying that I don't want to see you laying more than minus 120 in any baseball game it's the same thing. 

01:32:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
There's no correlation to those things those are also why are like half the letters in his sentences, all capital. 

01:32:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
This is also part of the allure of Tweety. He also ends a lot of sentences with colons, semicolons and commas. We don't understand how that ever happened, but it's part of the allure. He also had an infatuation with crabs and gravy and people used to message him about that and he would respond with like this one wait, you mean you never had crabs and gravy? You're kidding, right? You ever heard of anyone mixing crabs and gravy? Never in my life. It's like banana marinara, basically. Yeah well, that's what I as we go through this. 

01:33:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
he is like a mix. He's not GRP to me. To me, he's more like a mix of GRP Zilbert, sean Perry, seablaze he's like everyone in one. 

01:33:37 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
I just had an idea. Can crabs and gravy be my GRP meal? 

01:33:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, you know what we could do that for the old. 

01:33:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
GRP. Shout out to Tweety. Shout out to Tweety. 

01:33:45 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Dimes, I'll finally get it in, so I can stop getting roasted for not doing it yet, oh, that's disgusting. 

01:33:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
by the way, I don't wish that upon anyone else Well. I'm going to try it. We'll see. We're going to see, we it um? Drinking rum and lettuce or whatever. That is looks like escarole, or maybe even cabbage, I don't know. Anyways, cheers. This guy got a mojito and he has absolutely no fucking clue what is in the drinking rum and lettuce or whatever that looks like escarole or maybe even cabbage. 

01:34:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This guy rules. 

01:34:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
This is such a. This to me, is first ballot. Hall of Fame Tweety. 

01:34:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That is a spectacular. I don't know who he is, because it's like it's a combination of so much lack of awareness while being so defensive and vulgar. Yeah, like I don't know who. Who has this combo that we interact with today? 

01:34:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
it's why he's a one of a kind. This is why he want, in his original tweet, said he deserves to be in the twitter hall of fame. It's because of stuff like this. You can't replicate this there. There is no replication for someone not knowing what that is. Okay. Bottom tweet here One and only double max of the year, just $10. I'll even refund it if it loses, but we aren't even having to go through all that DM if Top tweet hey y'all, what's a double max bet? That's as stupid as saying the Eagles won a double Super Bowl. How can a max be a max? Then double? Get off Twitter. Those are literally one year apart from one another. 

01:35:24
Uh, actually looks like three months yeah, march 8th and december 15th gave out a double max of the year and then calls it stupid and tells people to get off twitter. Lack of self-awareness, to your point, jeff. Um, this is where we get into the pick selling stuff. Hates when people told him to stop selling picks. You want to make a difference in life? Stop the sales of heroin. Stop the sales of crack. Not a fucking three day sports package, you idiots. I mean, they're all bad. 

01:35:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean yes, I agree. I'd rather someone I care about like have bought a three day sports package than like disappearing on a heroin or crack bender. 

01:36:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, you know what I just noticed about this tweet Right at the bottom big man on campus. Jeff Nadeau responding, but we'll never know what that. I don't think that response is still there, oh yeah, his account is gone. That's it. These accounts are long gone, both when you lose a Max Bomb and can't afford eclipse glasses, so you got this guy's staring directly in the sun during the eclipse yeah, that's very GRP. 

01:36:32
With eclipse gum packs over his glasses. This is also one of my personal favorites. Holy fuck man. Holy fuck man. Uh, my windshields just broke. I'm definitely gonna die today. I can't see. 

01:36:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Grab my game of the year and celebrate after my funeral okay, it's crazy, but I actually like, on the levels of like engagement baiting, I actually like this is my game of the year. I'm like this is my game of the year. I'm going to die today. Play my game of the year. I actually like this one. 

01:37:05 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's like Tout Playbook 101. 

01:37:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, it's pretty good. Pretty good. And my final and one of my favorites when you're running cold, it's the same feeling you get about yourself when your dick is shriveled up after being in the ocean all day. If only Frank Rambo was around to make like 35 Tweety Burners Like GRP treatment gets, so by the way those existed, there was lots of Tweety Dimes Burners. 

01:37:39 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So I mean parodies, not burners. 

01:37:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, but there was fate. This was in an age of Twitter, where you didn't get banned for creating copycat accounts. So there was Rob Pizzola copycats. 

01:37:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And it was probably easier to create less verification levels. I could just create extra burner dummy accounts 100%, 100% I think. 

01:37:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh, we do have this one. 

01:38:00 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Read it, please read it. 

01:38:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I stand with Robert Kraft. This was when Robert Kraft was at the Rub and Tug. When it became a thing, 25th birthday, friends took me to the geisha house, where they laid me on that table and poured buckets of warm soapy water all over me and washed my balls. Man, it was the first day I knew how a woman should treat a man, and my responses there. Could have gone my whole life without hearing this story. 

01:38:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
How did I not know about this? 

01:38:36 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
What an intro to a tweet. I stand and walk around. That's the headline. 

01:38:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Because he experienced a bunch of buckets of warm soapy water all over and they washed his balls. That's very uh. That's your. That's your look into the life of tweety this was a good finish. 

01:38:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like in a firework show, they usually like save a great, yeah, like the big one for the end. 

01:38:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's good, that's a good finish I was trying to bucket them by like theme. My favorite favorite will always be the rum and lettuce. I think that is actually maybe the best tweet of all yeah, it is insane to me that someone doesn't know what a mojito is, but then they actually take a picture of it and they post it and they call it a rum and lettuce or maybe escrow or cabbage. 

01:39:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That is a first ballot hall of famer you also know he like clearly stuck with people because people had these tweets for years in their, in their camera. 

01:39:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
100 that's like another thing. It's like it didn't. It wasn't really. I was trying to use the twitter search function, which is broken, and I tweeted about that. But people had the had receipts and, and a lot of those are now deleted, like they don't exist. They're with another account that scrubbed the old account. So for people to actually take note of them and save them is is a testament to the quality of character that he was on gambling twitter. And to jeff's point I I don't see grp when I look back on it, but I see like a mix of like elements of grp, elements of zilbert, like I see a lot of lack of self-awareness. 

01:40:19 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But lack of self-awareness doesn't mean stupid, right, right he was both. 

01:40:26
No, but I'm not even comparing the two. Back in the like, you know, I've had tip for tats with like Rufus, who's so freaking smart and one of the best bettors about like sometimes a lack of self-awareness. It has nothing to do with stupidity, but this is an incredible parlay of vulgarity, stupidity, lack of self-awareness. I don't know, sean Perry might really be the only person who checks. He's vulgar in his replies. He doesn't have awareness. He's pretty dumb in how he goes about things. But it's like a less cultured sean perry. 

01:41:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But sean perry's not funny. He was funny yeah humor. 

01:41:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You're right, that's a fourth box that perry doesn't have yeah, tweety, he's just a legend. 

01:41:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's all I could say about him. 

01:41:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He, he, he like the nuance some, like some of the tweets are like he's like a baby who's never been outside in the world before. 

01:41:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But you guys, you, you picked up on some of the nuance, right, like random capitalization, the way sentences at. He didn't know he never said disgusting, he said discussing, discussing, okay, like, like jeff says library, library. I can't make fun of him for that. He always would say got damn, got G-O-T, got damn Like. That was a big thing, for he had this like nomenclature that everyone just used to use and whenever he was going to release a huge play, he'd tweet out all caps Max Bomb Alert. That was the thing. I got it made onto a t-shirt, which I still have. I have a t-shirt that says heat wave coming, which was also a Tweety nomenclature. All that stuff, huge. There was like a Tweety merch. Yes, yes, there was corny. He used to call everything corny. You're fucking corny man, so fucking corny. That's what he used to say. Anyways, we're wrapping up Tweety. We're on to the chopping block. These are items that are not grander topics but we did want to incorporate in the show because you did use that hashtag. Circle back. What do we got first here, jacob? 

01:42:31 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
So, first up, I don't know how on earth this was found. Incredible Somebody found footage from the 2005 World Series broadcast where Pope Leo XIV was in attendance, just named as the Pope he's from, very famously now, from Chicago. How could you possibly find footage from the 2005 World Series? Like who would have known about this? But Pope Leo was in attendance watching the White Sox. 

01:43:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think he knew, like people who knew him or were friends with him knew about it. 

01:43:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They knew he was a big White Sox fan so I'm sure someone dug deep into like big White Sox games. 

01:43:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, no, it's simple as, like people who knew him at the time knew he was on TV and it's like and now he's the Pope. Yeah, now he's the Pope, and now he's the Pope. 

01:43:19 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
And let's find this documented of him Remember when he was on TV. How would you even find this game? How would you know what game? Did somebody watch back the entire series to find this? 

01:43:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
one five-second clip. It would be like saying, if Jason became the Pope and he's at game one of the Stanley Cup, yes, but you realize how funny that is when you say that To me. 

01:43:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
When I saw that by the way, this doesn't I I have no opinion on pope leo as a pope, or what. I'm not saying it, it all it's it felt like what's the best way I could describe this almost like it undermined his credibility as a pope totally that he was at a baseball game at any point in life. You know how. I know how stupid that sounds, but like when you think of the pope, like the leader of the life. 

01:44:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They didn't live a life before exactly. 

01:44:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You do not think that these people had like human interactions where they went out in public, like so? When I saw this I was actually laughing. I was like it's so funny. 

01:44:19 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's really such a fucking funny pope it's like your second grade teacher, like you don't think that she had any life before, like being your, like she's not an actual person with a family and was a child at one point. Um, so, yeah, and just, I mean an american pope not that I know anything about Pope, that just is so weird. 

01:44:42 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I honestly and I don't want to turn this into a politics thing, because I really don't give a shit about a lot of politics but I was surprised that Donald Trump President Donald Trump did not victory lap the Pope being American and like say that it had something to do with him. That's all I wanted to see this week from a content perspective, I think there were some old pope tweets being anti, oh like, like anti-vans at least. 

01:45:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So I think that's why god the post? 

01:45:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
so the pope is anti-trump? 

01:45:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
it was, I would say though, because there were like some tweets where I wanted to give like credit to yeah, but then it seemed like I don't know who originated it, because there was a high level of twitter plagiarism going on yeah with, like the pope, the chicago jokes oh my god 400 yard agree. Oh yeah, 400 yard passer, yes a pope before notre dame, like how did this happen yeah yeah, all right. 

01:45:38 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
next one here we've got from Gambling Sheriff at WhatisplusEV. It says hey, bobot official, what the hell is this? You void the market because of an incorrectly listed team Reds played the Braves, not Astros. Then at 2.30 am, after the Dodgers game goes under by the hook, you unvoid them and mark them as losses. We free-rolling customers now and it's a screenshot showcasing the voided and then loss on the bet. So this is crazy. 

01:46:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well. So if this actually happened, unacceptable, definitely. I'll speak from experience on here. It's been a long time since I could tell you that I did consult for sports books in the offshore industry for a while and there's very likely an explanation of what happened here, where there was some sort of automated mechanism that ran and overwrote what the trader did previously. This does happen a lot. The tech in the offshore industry is really bad. Not an excuse, but I will say it's extremely unlikely that they were trying to free roll the customer. It's more so likely a bad process internally. So I know whenever these come up we always get tagged Again. Just speaking from experience, most of these books do not just want to completely fuck over the player because it harms their reputation, but there's tons of horrible internal processes that are in place. Uh, not saying it's acceptable in any way, because it's not, but just providing an explanation as to why it could possibly happen in these types of instances. 

01:47:17 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
The next one is from at farley bets, who we've talked about on this show before. Does he, does he sell picks or does he just give out picks? 

01:47:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I think he sells a newsletter that has picks in it. 

01:47:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I actually don't even know. I thought he was quiet. I thought he left Twitter. Was it the last time we talked about him when you said he was leaving Twitter? 

01:47:35 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Actually I think you're right, but anyways, he's had big beefs with Rob in the last few months in regards to the style of betting, rob taking a more analytical approach I guess model approach, where Farley Bets is more of a watch the game and piece it together from there but posted here. I'm day one into an AI program at one of the most prestigious schools in the country and one of the first lessons is how current LLMs are the most sophisticated machines and the most sophisticated machines are still significantly flawed. Yet these high and mighty sports betting modelers want you to believe their algorithm is the most predictive tool since John Nash's governing dynamics. The hubris is fucking unreal. 

01:48:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
LLMs are language learning models. For those that don't know, I do a lot of research into AI. I use AI pretty heavily in my life nowadays. There are so many things that are wrong with this tweet I don't want to spend forever on it because I've spoken my piece on Farley before, but this is absolutely like a false equivalency, like intelligence and predictive modeling are very, very different things. So, first and foremost, that's the dumbest thing ever. The second thing that is completely moronic is I'm day one into an ai program. Here is what it's like someone being like. This is my first day at medical school. I I'm here to tell you why these surgeons don't know what the fuck they're doing, like completely dumb, and then to end it by saying the hubris is fucking unreal after making this point is self-awareness, not zero negative like. Could not put a more like. 

01:49:19
This tweet encompasses everything I can't stand about this guy and and that's plain and simple and with sports modeling the one thing that people don't get and kirk does a lot of sports modeling as well you do not have to have a perfect model. You are never going to account for everything perfectly. You just have to have better probabilities than other betters in the space. That's what it's about. No sports modeler is ever going to say that their model is perfect. We don't do that. There are lots of flaws. 

01:49:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Does he hate sports betting models so much because of you Like? 

01:49:56 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
is it a you? 

01:49:57 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
At least partially. 

01:49:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
See last time we did this, if Rob said that, I might have been and accused him of main character syndrome. But it does seem like Farley is subtweeting Pozzola every time he picks this lane. 

01:50:14 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Maybe not directly him, but definitely like partially. 

01:50:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Pozzola and cronies. 

01:50:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yes, yes, and just to talk about what he's saying in this tweet, like the scope of a sports betting model is so much tighter than the scope of an AI language model that, despite an AI language model being built by far more advanced people and using far more advanced techniques, it's actually not that surprising that it has significant flaws, because they're literally building one of the most ambitious tech projects in the history of the world. So, like Rob said, the equivalency makes no sense. Like trying to predict what's going to happen in a sports game using a model is much easier than trying to essentially create human intelligence. 

01:51:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think a lot of this just stems from obviously there's different handicapping styles. So there's people who are just strictly handicappers and I think Farley's like a big believer in a lot of motivational stuff, right, teams losing in a certain way, revenge angles, stuff like that. But you can test that stuff in sports. Like, my whole point was that it's not like modelers ignore this stuff. I don't ignore revenge angles. I've just done a lot of exhaustive research into that and realize that they don't have any predictive value going forward, so I'm not going to include them into my model. Like that's where I think the disconnect, they'd be priced. 

01:51:38
If it was something relevant, it would be priced in well, I I think somebody would be on to it for sure like these have existed for years, right, like, think about the angles of, like, a coach being fired in a sport, and there's you know I don't want to say it's a narrative, because I actually do think there's something to it about, you know, team playing better in front of a new coach, or something a lot human nature, but a lot of this stuff can actually be measured to some capacity. So so it's not like I dismiss it. My whole thing is like, if it's actually a thing, test it and I think too many times people in the sports betting space, it's regurgitation of information. I'm not speaking to Farley directly here, but lots of people hear something and they think it's a thing going forwards, right right, but this is just also to defend you guys, modelers. 

01:52:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
such a gross misrepresentation of what anyone who models and models fantastically actually believes. You all know that, like there's holes, yes, trap doors, you're hoping for like a I mean, I don, I can't speak to your edge, but you're hoping for like a 7% edge, which still leaves you a 43% trap door, yes, yes. How does anyone equate that to foolproof? 

01:52:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh, I'm with you. Last thing I'll say on this, and maybe Kirk can speak to it as well I don't want to get into too many details on this, but I actually do leverage some ai for some modeling stuff nowadays. So I I don't I'm not dismissing like modeling is just going to evolve, right like I used to be able to beat nhl with like the most basic models that used to happen, even baseball. Right, just like monte carlo using steamer project 2023. 

01:53:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I didn't even have to research, but there's evolution. 

01:53:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
One to two home run parlays a week, and it comes down to what the competition is in the space, and to me, right now, sports betting is as competitive as it's ever been in my opinion. So the stuff that used to work and like very simple handicapping techniques, in my opinion, those are the flawed approaches nowadays. 

01:53:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, so I was looking for a Farley. I read his newsletter and he spoke about this and I posted in the circle back group chat a while ago. He said I was very proficient in math at any level of education, took advanced math courses, blah blah, but I'm not a modeler. Bracket or parentheses, although I can't imagine it's that particularly difficult. So he has. He has a serious problem with modelers, but he thinks it's easy. 

01:54:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
The hubris is fucking unreal. 

01:54:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
If I could model and I was extremely proficient in math. Wouldn't I still use it and bring it up just as like another layer of my handicapping, even if I was into revenge games or situational factors? It's like, wouldn't that just be another tool to use if it's easy? 

01:54:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
to create, but you would all the things that you believe that exist in sports. You would try to work them into your model, regardless. Anyways, it's just a lot. I know what you're getting at. Yeah, I think that's a fair into your model, regardless. Anyways, it's just a lot. I know what you're getting at. 

01:54:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I think that's a fair thing to say. Yeah of like you can. You can use it even like just to have but but again, it's like we're so off base of like the reality of what farley bets is, so it's kind of hard to say I'm day one into an ai program, but at one of the most prestigious schools in the country. 

01:55:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Honestly congrats yeah, I hope luck Crush the program. 

01:55:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I actually think this is a great program to get into nowadays. So fuck you know what? Let bygones be bygones. 

01:55:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I hope things go really well for you. Go into that field and try to improve and learn more Totally agree. 

01:55:19 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
So there was a pretty big cash out on a parlay that was covered by BR betting over the course of the week and it was a $369,000 parlay that the better cashed out at $114,000. So I don't know what financial situation this person was in, but that's a lot of money. Of course the bet ended up being it would have won had the better not cashed out but cashed out for the 114k. So, as some sharp bettors here, what do you guys think of of this decision to cash out? 

01:55:56 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm so sick of like cash out conversations. Most bettors, most of the sharp guys, are in the comments of like well you, he shouldn't have cashed out, he should have put X amount of money hedged on this. It's like I mean, the guy probably doesn't have like 100K available. Like it's these unrealistic expectations he would have won. He cost himself expected value by cashing out. We know that. But the fact that he clicked that cash out button and walked away with 114k honestly I can't blame the guy if that meant a lot to him. Better see that than the instance where he gets it ends up with zero dollars. And listen, there are mathematical formulas and whatever that you can throw into the equation. Every single human is different in my opinion. I I hate the cash out. 

01:56:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
How much did he bet? Can you see like the risk? It's a bit small a bit small, um, but yeah, I think there are a lot of interesting cash out conversations to be had, but we never have them. Yeah, um, assuming he's just like a, looks like about 2000 oh, but it's like a really long shot. Parlay right like you could see all the plus thousand on this bet yeah, it's like a really long shot. 

01:57:07 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Parlay right Like you could see all the pluses. Is it 2,000? 

01:57:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
on this bet. Yeah, it's two. It's like maybe 1,900. 

01:57:12 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
It's two hockey games. No, it's a 10-leg parlay. Yeah, this is showing the last two legs. 

01:57:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right. Well, that changes things a little bit. 

01:57:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So, there's two legs left and he cashed out on both. 

01:57:23 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
It was the uh hurricanes and the golden knights. 

01:57:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, like again I'll never really give someone shit for cashing out for 114k when he might never have that opportunity again. The fact that he's betting two thousand dollars on a bet like that is a bit troubling, um, but yeah, I don't like. Most of these conversations are typically pretty bad. 

01:57:43 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
I wouldn't give him shit for cashing out, but I would say like, if you're just going to cash out, why don't you just not include those last two games? 

01:57:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, exactly Jacob. If those two legs are going to be the last two legs and you know that when you get there you're going to cash out, you don't know that. 

01:57:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's all just part of a dream. I know that's easy to say, but then it's like he would be presented with the cash out as that final. The eighth game was ending. Well, it's like it's like. 

01:58:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
My buddies were always like, why did you bet that eighth game? You should have left it at a six gamer. My buddies always add sunday night football, monday night football to the parlays because they they convince themselves, well, if, if I'm up a lot, I have a chance to hedge. But I always just say to them like, just not don't. Like, don't include those. Like, if you're perfect going into those, why even put yourself in the situation where you have to hedge? Just don't include those games. I think that's what jacob's getting at. 

01:58:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I agree, I used to often just tack the sunday night on to the parlay because it was like it'd be great to get the sunday nighter and have a 200200 bet that pays $1,800. Cashing out it's like a choose-your-own-adventure, it's like your own adventure book, whatever you feel comfortable with. If you're a true wreck like I can't speak for you guys. I know if I put like $10,000 into a book this morning, like I don don't say red flags, but it wouldn't be that easy for me, yeah, I know and I have all the access I've got. 

01:59:11
Jeff, I'm not. I'm not in debt, but I'm in good situation like 150k. 

01:59:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like I have to move things around, withdraw from some others, or I gotta go into cold storage crypto. Like it's not that easy for anyone to be able to move those sums of money. 

01:59:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
To me, these conversations are like when people get mad at the blackjack player for not playing perfect strategy when they're at the table. It's like we're playing a game that isn't logical. So why are we like trying to back end logic in? Like he bet a 10 legleg NHL parlay, oh, but he should have bet an 8-leg parlay if he knew he was going to cash out. He's just a very wrecked gambler and wrecked gamblers are going to wreck gamble. 

01:59:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well said. 

01:59:54 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
The real GRP had a bit of a heater this weekend. So it was Mother's Day and we have roasted George for buying his mom lottery tickets for Christmas. Well, decided to double down on the lottery tickets for Mother's Day, says. There's proof that I'm really a pro gambler. Even when I get my mom her Mother's Day gift, I'm always looking for an edge. I get her lottery tickets instead of a silly gift, so I have a chance to win millions. Basically, he's thinking he can inherit the money and if he gets her this gift, it's a gift for her, but also if it wins, it's a gift for him. On top of that. And then, after buying his mom lottery tickets for Mother's Day, also tweeted a photo of a stash of it looks like diet Cokes and Gatorades and is that like coffee? 

02:00:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It looks like washer fluid. 

02:00:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think that you think it was. 

02:00:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Washer fluid. I think that you think it was reversed order. 

02:00:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I think it's reversed order. He got the credit card first, yeah, which makes the fact that he went on a shopping spree Sorry, jacob. 

02:00:55 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
Sorry, I'll just read it first. He says Mom gave me the credit card to get her some milk and eggs so I just loaded up and it's a big stash of those drinks I mentioned. 

02:01:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And then poor, poor mom, because she watches the news and MSNBC's complaining about how much eggs are, yeah, and she sees her bills. She's like they're right about the eggs. Sean Perry, george mom's credit card. They unite over it. 

02:01:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I will say I do see in the top left there that he bought those charcoals and he got the grill going in mom's backyard. 

02:01:29 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
I don't know if you saw him cooking up the steaks and he got the barbecue going. Barbecue, he said barbecue, yes he did. 

02:01:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's true, I said grill, I I americanized it, but he said barbecue just the the 13 starbucks fraps is just such an egregious purchase Like what are we doing here? 

02:01:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The best was. I think it was flop, but he found an edge and he exploited it, like your mom gave you the credit card. 

02:02:00 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
He's betting like thousands of dollars on the NFL draft and he buys mom $40 worth of lottery tickets. 

02:02:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's disgusting. He's definitely a shitty son, but you know what? I'm here for this contest. 

02:02:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I want him to win the lottery, and the sister, who's apparently very bright Like George, is going to be in it for a rude awakening. 

02:02:18 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Imagine his mother rewrites her will to leave everything to the sister. 

02:02:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Buddy, not everything's going to the sister, but when George's mom passes and George wants a dollar, he's going to need to ask the trustee, which will be his sister. There's no way George is being. 

02:02:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I just did the agenda, by the way, for you and George. 

02:02:39 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
We need to discuss this. Yeah, george's gift-giving to his mother is a repugnant quality. Yes, I agree, you could get something that also benefits you, like we've all done this move. A few years ago got my dad a range finder. He's older, all he does is ride around the cart it gives the GPS anyway Range finder out of his bag into mine. Like you could buy a nice, a new toaster, a new toaster oven, like things that are for your mom a new. 

02:03:09
TV in the kitchen, but things that are essentially like. You are going to get all the benefits of wow, getting credit for giving a nice present Very smart, very smart, and speaking of repugnant, the next one from a good friend Now, matt, matt Zilbert. 

02:03:27 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
He's on Cameo now, if you want. And I Run. So Bad 1 says Wish you don't block me, as I'm his biggest fan. So Zilbert says All right, you're unblocked, just don't do anything dumb. He replies thank you and then, unprompted, brings it up. Since you're a fan, let me give you an early scoop. I was accepted onto Cameo to do Brings it up to give shout-outs like happy birthday wishes, congratulatory messages. They'll record a personalized message and you gift that to somebody. So in theory, somebody would pay Zilbert to read a celebratory message to somebody else. That is what Cameo is for. And now Zilbert has signed up. 

02:04:18 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep, I was on Cameo for a bit. They did a big venture into the sports betting world and tried to get everyone on there, and I think I probably did like a big um venture into the sports betting world and tried to get everyone um on there and um, I think I probably did like a dozen and I donated the all the money to charity as well. That's what I was doing. The cameos for what does a zilbert cameo look like like? For me, people would always message being like my friend fucking sucks at betting on basketball. I want you to flame him. That. That was like probably 75 of my messages. What does a zilbert cameo request look like? Like what would I do? Or what would like? What's he gonna get people messaging him? It'll be people trolling him yeah, it's got like. 

02:05:01
It's not gonna be like say hello to my brother and wish him a happy birthday. 

02:05:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's more like harass this person for a documented record? I would. If I was writing one. I would say I would want to congratulate my friend, like Steve, who is the best Super Bowl over-under better I've ever met. 

02:05:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

02:05:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like, if you said who's a better over-under better you or Spanky, just as an example, he would say met, yeah, like almost make cause he. Like if you said who's a better over under, better you or spanky, just as an example, he would say himself yeah. So I would want him to just have to congratulate someone else for being the best at what he is. Take so much pride in that's what I would do. Congrats. Congrats, steve, on having the best record on the internet in MLB. May over-unders. Yep, how about that call how? 

02:05:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
about that call. I do want to say about Zilbert, not relevant to this. I was on a Spaces like last week or something and he was going in on Jason Alexander about how oh, sorry, I thought you meant George Costanza, jason Alexander, that's his name right Jordan Alexander, jordan Alexander yes, jordan, alexander, jordan Alexander, yes, jordan, alexander, sorry. 

02:06:07
Jordan Alexander about how it's so crazy that Jordan Alexander doesn't follow Zilbert but comments on all his stuff. And Zilbert specifically said I would never do that and I'm thinking in my head, I don't think I check. Zilbert does not follow me. He comments on all of my things. I never respond to him. So when he said that with such conviction he nearly convinced me I was delusional. But yeah, that just to me was a sign of Zilbert has a bit of an ability to fudge the truth. 

02:06:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I would make. I used to say that to people, by the way, but now, because of the for you tab, it's changed everything on twitter, like I get served so much content from people I'm not following. 

02:06:52 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That it's a little bit different. I mean, I'd probably make him do something with a cigarette too. But yes, a quick side note what sucks for, I'd say, like people on the like. Calling myself a creator is probably a stretch, but on like the follower level, yeah, of me, when, like when, when, like the follows don't even matter anymore, that sucks. What I mean by that is if I create content and I post it and it doesn't even get to the people who follow me, it's like people in my tier are fucked, yeah yep, yeah, totally agree, agreed like the people who've consciously wanted to follow me aren't even getting the shit that I'm sending out yeah like we're in a whole. 

02:07:39 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
It's a hopeless tier of of content creator yeah, what do you think zilbert is expecting to get what? What when he made this? What do you think because he's obviously confident this is going to work? What is he thinking people are going to approach him? 

02:07:52 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't think he's confident no I just think, I think he needs a few bucks about what you'd want to commemorate. 

02:07:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So I think he's going to get people to like yeah, I don't know, I think he's happy. Send my buddy a message because he won 10 straight bets. 

02:08:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But for $50, $100, he's happy to be self-deprecating. 

02:08:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Right A cameo keeps a large portion of that as well. 

02:08:14 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
That's a unit right there. 

02:08:18 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Sorry, what was it he? 

02:08:18 - Jacob Gramenga (Announcement)
used to say Mid-three figures. He's a mid-two figures that's for sure. 

02:08:23 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Mid-two figures, all right. Just want to wrap up this week, um, a little bit of a somber note, but, um, I unfortunately had to find this out through twitter myself and I did want to pay tribute to someone. Um, that's been pretty meaningful in my life over the years. Uh, brian king uh passed away last week. For those that don't know, he was king or 999 on twitter, western canadian. I came across him in 2014. We've exchanged dms on twitter monthly ever since then and, uh, unfortunately he did pass and I just wanted to say you know, brian was a really great guy. 

02:09:05
We connected through hockey analytics. He was the inventor of a metric called PDO, which is a luck-based metric. But he was also a huge football fan, diehard Ravens fan. I could never reason with him about the Ravens, but we connected on a personal level. We talked music a lot, we were both big Slipknot fans and all sorts of other things. He loved his daughters. He'd message me about them all the time and the world lost a really good one in Brian King. So if I do get any information on a potential GoFundMe or any causes, I'll include that in future show descriptions as well. But just wanted to take a moment to say rest in peace, kinger. You will be missed.