00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions. 

00:49
It's Circle Back right here on the Circle Soft channel, part of the Hammered Betting Network and presented by Underdog. This is the show where we cover the latest and greatest from gambling Twitter. We have quite a cast of people to do it here for the Friday edition with the A-Team, we've got myself, jacob zero-time contest champ. We have below me Chris Dierkus one-time contest champ, jeff Nadeau in the top right corner screen zero-time contest champ, and bottom right, joey Kanish zero-time contest champ. But you know what guys? As a combined unit here we have one contest winner amongst us, compared to the Tuesday Circleback crew, which has a total of zero contest winners. So does that make us the superior show? 

01:30 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Well, I mean you didn't win it in you know 1998 Super Contest when you know 45 people were betting stale NFL lines. So I don't know if it means as much. The million dollars, you know the 5,000 people survivor flip. 

01:44 - Flup (Co-host)
Yeah, and I got to point out I was checking even though he has six contest wins, my one win, even though I had to split it three ways, was greater than his combined winnings of all six. 

01:56 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Also, I hate to tell Pozzola, and this might come as a shock to him and his cronies over there, but I don't know. In terms of internet popularity, I mean, I think this group is very much way more popular than that group. Oh without a doubt. 

02:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Without a doubt, a lot more sauce on this show and Americans. I don't know if that makes a big difference. 

02:21 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I mean Kanish, do you realize, when I go out? Okay, there are certain bars I can't go to because I will spend time taking pictures the whole night. 

02:30 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Hey, listen, everybody has a hashtag. Nadew sign. 

02:37 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I mean I thought, I tell you what. 

02:38 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I was in Toronto a few weeks ago and nobody. Me and Pozzolo were out to dinner. Nobody was coming up saying Robbie P, are you man? So yeah, it's a different vibe here on this. 

02:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Uh, on the 18th it's funny, all the good stuff about this show is associated with me. All the good stuff about the show is also I can take some credit for for being a part of both, but I also get the negativity associated with both of it, which I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about over the course of the show today. But it's a loaded show today, absolutely. Let's jump into things here. We're starting off with a little bit of discussion surrounding the spaces, because there was a lot to go through from the previous week or the previous few days, since the tuesday show even. But uh, there was a bit of chaos caused early on when elf was scheduled to do a Spaces that featured an alleged I won't use the correct terminology because of YouTube monetization and everything but an alleged SA victim of Sean Perry was supposed to come on a recent Spaces this week and it got shut down pretty quickly in the end. 

03:44
This is a reply here from LiveDogLuke. This is a reply to promo for that Spaces, which is now a deleted tweet. But the post here says Will Elf be part of a criminal investigation in any capacity sometime in the next 12 months? Make the market at ForecasterBet at 4CXSweep. So yeah, looked like something along the lines of Elf wanting to do anything for content. It seems like anything is content to Elf and he was ready to really take this to the next level. But we'll start with you, Nadeau. This seemed like a bad idea from the jump. 

04:19 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Yeah, and look from the quasi half a journalist in me. I always want to bring on the interesting, saucy person that can shed light on some things. That said, we're now messing with criminal possibilities. We're not. We're not just hanging out and saying, oh, somebody punked out in a bathroom or something whatever. This is a real, possible litigation where you can be sued. This is real life. And you know, I told Elf, I said you know you and I think some of us also did you should speak to an attorney over this, because you're going to open yourself up to a lot of stuff you don't want to deal with. And he thought better of it. Again, I think he is still learning with a lot of this stuff. You know we all just assume it's all for fun, but eventually, when you start getting into some of this territory you're worried about, you know you're going to have to worry about the next couple of years of your life of litigation. So, yeah, I'm glad he thought better of it and it was a bad idea, I think. 

05:14 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm starting to get to a point now with that where I don't know genuinely what is real anymore with that show. I don't know what's content, I don't know if this is all uh, like and again, I'm not trying to be like oh, that that couldn't have happened. It it may well have allegedly, or whatever, but now it comes out, uh, between that tweet and now perry and elf are gonna fight, um, so it's like in the background are they trying to set up more drama to get this fight real? It just feels fake and it's lost the authenticity and I'm not going to be on here pandering. I know Feinberg did a big rant. He wants a boomer space. I do think there's a lot of entertainment factors still in the elf spaces, but this whole storyline with the perry and the vance and everything, it's gotten to the point where now it feels like like nothing's real, it's all fake. It's like we're watching a you know a fake reality show here. 

06:20 - Flup (Co-host)
um and um, it's lost the plot a little bit for me I gotta agree, and it's really big of elf to actually listen to the advice. I knew, nadeau you helped him out there Very smart to listen to that advice. If he brought him on he could have ended his career. So very good, elf listening. I agree with you, nisha, it sounds fake, but I think Elf was fully intending to bring that woman on. 

06:44 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Let me circle back with that say if it wasn't a bit insane thing to even consider, like absolutely insane thing, if it wasn't part of the shtick for like a fight lead up, if that, like she was actually bringing her on to you know, have accused some essay out of your mind insane to even consider it yeah, I think also go ahead, did you? 

07:06 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I would strongly advise anybody that's doing content. If you're going to bring things like that up, you're going to bring people like that on your show. The old adage is if there is a police report if they've been you know something out there in the public, have at it. Then okay. But in this day and age you very much need to think about people make things up. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but you can't just take someone's word for it and remember in this case there was no police report as far as we know. At this point it seems a little little loose to me. Uh, why would you want to tell the whole world but not the police? It's, it's just a real testy thing. So, yeah you, you're getting involved with some dangerous territory there yeah, it's, it's. 

07:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It's a complicated situation because, on one hand, you definitely want to like, allow these people to have a platform to to tell their stories about these things. The other hand, you have to also recognize, as you said there, uh, the the possibilities of things being fake. So, again, a a really touchy, complicated subject. I think, in the end, the elf spaces, no matter what, are like the wrong place to cover a story like this. I think that's what it comes down to at the end of the day. But you guys mentioned Sean Perry and Elf and the beef over there. Well, on the Tuesday show that we did. Jeff Feinberg predicted that all of this was building up to a fight between Elf and Sean Perry. We kind of stole their thunder here because, lo and behold, amanda Vance came on Twitter and said huge announcement a month from today, elf will be fighting Sean Perry for the people, and then winner gets Amanda. Oh my God, that made me cringy. 

08:47 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I might lose on purpose in that case. 

08:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, I was going to say the winner is supposed to get a prize, a prize that they want, but in this case maybe not. Anyways, circles off. We did kind of victory lap that one a little bit, because we actually, a day before this, even dropped a clip of Jeff saying this is all building up for a fight. So I think we stole a little bit of the thunder there. But it kind of feels like Elf is pulling, like a Vince McMahon pulling the strings. It's starting to feel WWE-like to me, like you said, Kanish, where this is like what's real about this? Is this fake? It feels very fake to me at this point. 

09:23 - Flup (Co-host)
I got to agree. This part definitely feels fake. I thought he banned sean perry from the show. Now they're fighting this amanda bit like obviously fake there's no real winner. 

09:38 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, this, yeah, winner yeah, hope you enjoy the smell of high noon at uh three in the morning. Uh, on her breath. So, uh, I, I don't, I, to me it's like these. This is a group of people and this is coming from you know, like you know, f-list content creators here doing the show, that like it's a group of people, that kind of thought that they could get their stick together. And this was somehow like perry. I could see him being like, oh, we're gonna get rich doing this. Elf wanting to blow up and do anything he can to get some clout and get some traction on content. 

10:12
And amanda vance who, uh, you know, if I'm being blunt, seems like uh, she's, you know, been, uh, had about you know, 800 too many mimosas over the past two years, since it's trying to sell picks and get by Like it was all. Like, hey, let's get together and try this whole bit. And I'm listen. Here's what I'll say, though Bottom line, when the fight happens, am I going to log on to the space and watch it? Yeah, yeah, I am. So maybe I'm no better than anybody here. I can kind of, like the month, lead up storyline. 

10:48 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
And that's another thing. This is a month away, right, so we can do all the you know, and I will say, like I've said before, there are certain guests that he brings on, for instance Cash Out King or whatever. His name is A goofy guy, yeah right, like he's funny. Am I interested in his life? No, but he is at least funny. There's just nothing redeeming to me About Sean Perry. I've drawn out my interest. I'm not into it at all, and now we're going to have to put up with it for another month. But again, as long as he's not on the show, I'm pretty happy with that, don't you want? 

11:19 - Flup (Co-host)
to see him get Potentially beat up by Elf. 

11:27 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Exactly 100% get potentially beat up by elf like is that exactly 100? Like I? I would actually, and I I'll take one better. I won't just watch it. I may even consider going out for this. This is one thing I would go out and watch, but I can't stand a guy. I don't like him. You know l from what I understand his training, he's told me that he's been sparring with people and maybe that's why it's a month away. Plus. I think now there's really no excuse for the MPBs of the world, the Bretts of the world, the libraries of the world. You get yourself out there and you get your ass on that undercard, because after this I think it's done right. You got to end it at some point. 

11:57 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, they're milking this box for all it's worth and this is the big lead up of, you know, the Elf Fair. I agree with you, Like you know, if I don't see it, if you've got a Spaces beef that you want to throw some hands over, if you're not there for this one, then you're put into rest. 

12:13 - Flup (Co-host)
I'm suggesting we could have a Fezzik Pizzola undercard. 

12:16 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
You know they could just, I don't hate that at all, I know, but Rob might do the oh no my glasses. I can't see anything. He's a 65-year-old man. Just go swing at him a few times. 

12:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, we'll get a little bit further on in the show. We're going to get to the Pasola and Fezzik beef, but before we go there, to end off on the spaces here, man of the Library got himself into a little bit of hot water as well. Self-inflicted usual, I would say for him. But one of the big features of the spaces this week was king cap sports and mando library going at each other with that's his name, king cap not cash out king right right with some serious accusations flying around. 

12:56
there was wild claim that king cap allegedly pulled a gun at a dinner at aria. Then king cap fired back, accusing library of being a scammer under different aliases on facebook, which we have featured here a little bit. Uh, there was a video of manda library going through his facebook feed of people thanking him for the pics, thanking him for the bet, saying I need to buy you a beer for all all the money that you're making me. But these receipts are from 2016. And Brandon at LilWesiana, underscore 31, says this is 10 years ago, which, to be fair, is when the accusations are being thrown out there. But it goes a little bit further, because there was more stories regarding Mandel Library here, because P P Don's and storm pig, two pro bettors, came in with receipts. 

13:47
A legend at library stiffed a $3,500 gambling bet a debt, excuse me years ago and the story, as I understand it here, is that library denies it, of course, but he's arguing over a bookie that let him bet freely until suddenly cutting him off. And the story is that library one with the bookie in his first week and got paid, and then the second week he lost but got limited and therefore refused to pay, because he was upset that he got limited but does owe the money and there was receipts to prove it. This sparked a debate, but spanky waited and said that debts are debts and do need to be paid. Overall, kanish, you've had a lot to say about Manta Library in the past. Shady character here. What's your take on this? 

14:31 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Well, I mean, listen, for all the flowers we gave him, for the whole bathroom situation and you know, brett, and that the guy's been a deadbeat for a decade or going on. I mean this should not be surprising that it's been one grift to another for him. The people that know him in the poker scene, the people that have been around for a long time on gambling Twitter with the even before gambling Facebook apparently I didn't even know that was a thing in 2015, that he was selling picks on there and, listen, he has. He's used whatever tactics he needs. I mean, he was trying to get people with numerology on gambling. 

15:06
It's been one thing after another with him for a long, long time to try, and you know, grift a buck. At this point, if you're a trusting man in the library, either on a PPH or you know loaning him five bucks for a bowl of noodles somewhere in Vegas, you know, get loaned in five bucks for a bowl of noodles somewhere in Vegas. Yeah, you need to take the personal responsibility, because I think there's plenty of evidence for that pattern of behavior over the last 10 years. 

15:34 - Flup (Co-host)
I thought it was so funny about this is one library outed himself. He was trying, he read the receipts, tried to make himself seem good and they just proved that he did it. The thing that was most funny to me is Library says oh, he said it was a guarantee I wouldn't get cut, and then he reads texts where the agent says it will probably last for a long time, which does not signify a guarantee. Additionally, Library accused him of slow paying because he didn't settle before Monday. Joey, I think you've used probably more PPHs than anyone here. Have you ever had an experience where you don't settle on Monday? 

16:16 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Listen. I mean, if you're, you should always that's usually the case is always kind of money, especially if you owe. Monday settles in that where you know, occasionally you get a book that lasts a couple of weeks the whole. I I'm on the. You know the spanky thing here of like, if you owe the money, which it obviously came out, what a rare library slip when he's green or when he's on the spaces to show that he actually owed it. Yeah, I mean, am I shocked that he would stamp a PPH book though? No, so I think there's a little bit more power for the course. 

16:53 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Two things with this guy, and I talked about it last week A lot of the people in these spaces are masters. At one week, they're the hero and within a day they're the most hated people on the space. And I'll give Mena Library one piece of credit. He should have went into being a lawyer, because he is an incredible. He has the incredible ability of somehow always turning it back to you Like you're the problem. It's not him, and this is again remember on last week's show. This is in lieu of some guy 10 years ago, where he was the greatest guy on facebook, accusing him of not paying him back. Uh, what was it? Nine hundred dollars or something. Um, this guy is, though, as joey knows, and I don't know how long you've been in gambling twitter, but you know, joey, and I've been around for years. He is the quintessential gambling twitter guy. Right, I mean, the fact that he's still around is interesting, because a lot of these guys you know yeah delete the account. 

17:47 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Rebrand do something. 

17:49 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I try and make another, but but he is steadfast in being the same guy and he is like most on the internet. He is always the victim. He never takes responsibility for anything. But then again you throw that guy Lil Weezion up. You look at that for anything. But then again you throw that guy Little Weeziana up. You look at that. For instance, he somehow, when I did the my Own Elf did the push-up thing. He came in and tried to whine Meta Library and say that it was all bullshit. We were all in cahoots together and he somehow got Weeziana to admit to something and he ended up making $200 out of it. He threatened that guy for weeks Pay me my money, pay me my money. He always finds a way to weasel his way out of things. 

18:30 - Flup (Co-host)
Somehow Larry had took huge offense to someone owing him $200. But the $3,500 he doesn't owe is no big deal. 

18:38 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
He should have been a lawyer. He'd have been like a Saul Goodman type, but he'd have been, by the way, also he has more like like John Dillinger had less aliases than him. Like the guy has like six different names. 

18:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, and people have been trying to expose those, all those different aliases. He's gone by over the years as well and been caught up for it. You know Rob has also said on one of the Tuesday shows that man of the Library will find find this one little thing that'll get you to stumble. That doesn't even really factor into the argument but it just adds that seed of doubt in an argument and yeah, that's why he causes problems in these spaces here with those arguments. But the last thing on these spaces here, storm Pig, who I just referenced as well, said that if you're ever worried about the long-term sustainability of betting for a living, just tune into any of these spaces, referencing that, yeah, there's enough losers out there in these spaces that you're going to be just fine betting. 

19:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
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20:08
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20:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Use code circles let's go over to another beef that was plaguing gambling twitter this week. That comes from our very own Rob Pizzola with Steve Fezzik. Rob kind of reignited it a little bit, I will say, in the Tuesday show. He said he doesn't want to talk about it but does talk about it with Fezzik. But this is what he had to say, fezzik on Twitter in response to the Tuesday Circleback episode. This was a reply to. This was a quote tweet that Fezzik posted a reply to somebody saying that Pozzola had lost his edge and Fezzik said I'm sure he still has his edge in betting. Of course that does not mean that he or his pale buddies I'm confident he's referencing Kirk Evans here. I'm kind of confident he's also referencing Judah Forking who does some NFL content for us at the Hammer on the Forward Progress channel. But I believe he's definitely referencing Kirk Evans who does the Tuesday show. I believe he's also referencing Judah Forking, but anyways, that does not mean he or any of his pale buddies have any realistic chance to give out winners long-term midweek for his sharp book on NFL sides at one point in time on a best bet show which, in fairness, the best bet show did not was not doing very well on our forward progress channel. It is really hard to beat nfl sides. Be careful out there who you listen to. 

21:55
Fancy talkers can make it sound like their bet their bets are worth following. The long-term results on those bets are telling. Any one year is often still a small sample. He really likes to use brackets man this entire thing. If someone has a lousy year, like I did in the NFL last year, it is a good idea to go back and look at how they did over a larger sample. Note 2008. Results really don't matter much. The world has changed. Some of my best years have been very recent in the NFL. I have reinvented myself multiple times and there was one more tweet here that he posted we're going to bring up. This was great. Bezic said zero-time contest. Champ at Rapazola is a confused guy. He keeps saying things like I don't want to stir up any conflicts. Then on a weekly basis, dude comes on his podcast and calls me out this week. I am a dino who never reinvents himself. Lol. You cannot make it up um, zero time contest champ as a contest champ. Chris flip um. Why is it that this? 

22:57 - Flup (Co-host)
it's so funny when somebody references contests like this the real reason it's so funny is because winning a contest is almost zero indication of skill. I would say that if you want to say that an average contest pool, 5% of the people are winners like theoretical long-term winners and then I pulled a random winner the odds that they're a winner is maybe 6% 7%. There's so much luck in contests that it's no indication of skill. I shouldn't say no, practically no indication of skill. If you think that I'm a good bettor because I won Circus Survivor, you're kidding yourself. That is no indication at all. If you think Steve Fizik is a good bettor because he won some contests, that's a laughable thing. So to keep bringing it up shows that he has nothing else of tangible value to prove that he's a good bettor and he uses something that has no value and no relevance at all. 

23:54 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I love his pale buddies there. Not a lot of sunshine in Toronto, so, yeah, kirk's tan is looking awful this time of year. But I mean, fez is the same. He is the king of like Robbo is accusing the lack of self-awareness. It's the double-edged sword of being like well, if you go, my long-term record in 2008, and then he's the same guy. That'll be like tweeting 13-2 last 15, get on board, baby, we're going on a run. I don't. I feel like the guy just fires off 20 and has no like pre prerequisite for what he just tweeted. Um, I will say, though, zero time contest champ had me like that. I was like laughing out loud, like in my myself in my basement reading that um, so solid line by fez. Um, I don't know I sad part the thing why it's so funny Is he's like probably thinking it's a dig, like typing it, like, oh, I'm going to smoke him, and then it's like the most laughable thing ever. But I enjoy the beef. I will say that the back and forth is great stuff. 

24:56 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
When you go on the Fez at Contest thing, so on pregame. I think he's got this picture right and it's so old even when you zoom in you can't see what year it was like, it was like from. 

25:06
It was probably like his reaction to winning, like the 1942 super contest yeah, yeah, and it's like again, like I'm not gonna knock like a doyle brunson who, yeah, he won the world series of poker when there was like 30 people in it, but long term he was clearly one of the greats. When else has fesic been relevant as far as anything? And again, I think Chris makes a great point about contest wins, that sort of thing. I'm out on Fezzik. I've been out on Fezzik ever since that bizarre appearance on Elf Spaces where he I don't want to get into some of the weird shit he was saying about underage girls Very weird. 

25:41
I just think he's annoying and I also hate like the whole thought of and I deal with it a lot with some of the other content I do where, just because someone's older, I have to immediately sit there and kiss their ass and respect everything they do. Sometimes you're just an asshole and I don't want to be nice to you and because you're older, that doesn't mean shit to me. You're a man just like me and I don't know. I think Fe fezzy tries to always constantly one-up people and just the weird like I don't know. He's just he annoys me. It's like enough already. 

26:09 - Flup (Co-host)
That's a great point about bringing doyle brunson up, because I would say, if you ask me why is doyle brunson an elite poker player, I would say because he cleaned up at the cash games and he was successful for many years, not because he won the main event back to back. That doesn't mean anything. 

26:25 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
He also wrote a book about poker that was super popular, like he has so many more things. And that's something where, like Steve doesn't seem to realize that it's like, well, I won a contest and you fucks never have done that. It's like, well, yeah, but okay, what else have you done exactly? 

26:42 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, no, I just, I think it's as your guys say. The doyle brunson example is is peak. Because that's like, yeah, it was when the super contest, you know, with 200 people, and we're going and we're just using that over and over again and you see the people, not just spedic but the other people in the space that use the contest as like their claim to fame. It's almost a tell now. It's almost like an industry, like if you have that in your bio like, oh, quarter three, you know circa millions, uh, streak winner in 2021. It's like, oh well, this guy's a fucking idiot. 

27:15 - Flup (Co-host)
Now it's like it's funny you mentioned that because I'm I've had to tell elf a couple times. Please don't address me as like the circus survivor, because I don't want to be. I don't want to be associated with that anymore. 

27:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Like I don't want people to think I'm just the survivor winner I want me to think of I'm better at betting for other reasons, not that well, all this kind of stem from the minus 7 000 duke debacle that was last week and it doesn't seem like this beef is going to end anytime soon between fezik and pazola, and we'll have a lot of talking points about that as that beef continues. Now just hold up a second, everybody. Before we keep going with the rest of this episode, we have a quick favor to ask If you're enjoying the show. Please make sure you do smash that like button, subscribe to the channel and leave a comment down below. We're going to react to some of your comments from last week's episode a little bit later on in this video, but engagement like this really does support the channel and helps keep us progressing forward and upward Plus between you and me. It's the only way we can afford the contract that Joey Kanish is negotiating for, so we really need your help on this one. 

28:17
Also, if there's a topic that you want us to cover on a future episode, then make sure you use that hashtag circle back on Twitter. You can quote, tweet something, reply to something. Just use that hashtag circle back. It's a massive way for us to find content to utilize on this show and, after all, we really wanna bring the content that you want to see. That matters a lot to us. So if you use that hashtag, circle back. We can find this stuff you wanna see on the show. Now let's get back to the episode Next up. We're going to go into the April Fool's jokes. Maybe some stuff that went well. 

28:48 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
We're still doing this that didn't go well. 

28:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, yeah, some brands went into it. Profit X had a. I would say I'm not sure this one went over very well, but Profit X said we're sorry it's come to this. Please check your account and it's a graphic that says Profit X. By the way, one of the exchange that says ProfitX. By the way, one of the exchange books says Hello, effective immediately If you have a net profit higher than 500 profit cash on ProfitX, your account has been suspended and you are no longer eligible to play on our platform. Please check your account if you have been suspended. If you have any questions, feel free to check today's date. May the odds be ever in your favor. Profitx team. How do we think this one went over? 

29:28 - Flup (Co-host)
Well. 

29:31 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
April Fool's jokes don't work on the internet. It's real simple. They're cringy, they suck, they're lame. You know who? April Fool's jokes work with your 65-year-old mother, your grandmother, right Like they work. Like, for instance, instance, I could call my mom and be like hey, mom, feds are about to come arrest me. I'm only gonna get one call. Make sure you answer. She'd go nuts, she wouldn't have any idea. She's so delirious she doesn't even know she's so much going on. But like it's just they're, they're lame, they're corny I. But then again, it's engagement, so everybody does it. 

30:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
We're going to see A lot of people did it. 

30:08 - Flup (Co-host)
I feel like I'm mostly with you, Jeff. I don't think on the internet they're always lame. They're mostly lame because they're poorly executed. There's a couple ones that are. You're like that's believable, and then you forget it's April 1st and you're like oh dang. And then you respond to it it and then like an hour later you realize oh shit, it's april, it's april. 

30:29 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
So someone will say that I got got because someone said and I still don't know if it's true or not because again, college students get like nine years now in college basketball. Oh, yeah, there's a rumor that under dickinson's, getting a seventh year, and I said is this serious? When will this fucking end with this guy? 

30:45 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
but like I still don't think it was, I still don't know if it's accurate or not, yeah I agree, it's like a, you know, it's like a 90s percentile type thing, right like where most of it's trash. I kind of hate being on twitter that day because, you know, you know, nine out of ten tweets I'm seeing are some stupid april fool stick. You get the occasional one that's worth a damn, but we're going to see. I looked at the rundown and most of the ones we have here are going to be in that 90% of pain. 

31:15 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
The Profit X one is kind of I don't know. You're messing with people's money, I don't know. I don't agree with that one. 

31:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I agree You're messing with people's money there. This one, I thought actually like it seemed to work on quite a few people. Chinese Mike at Chinese Mike 2, who is part of Spanky's team, tweeted out here that they were going to be selling a baseball picks package for $20,000. It seemed serious, but obviously question marks by the timing considering the day, but it seemed to work on a few people. Spanky followed this up by saying turn down $200,000 in three hours. Why? Because we're not crooks. Because we make a living extracting money from bookmakers, not fellow bettors. Don't give these touts a penny. Hope everyone has a great baseball season. Spanky has been very outwardly anti-tout in any capacity whatsoever here, but 10 people did try to sign up to this baseball package. 

32:09 - Flup (Co-host)
So it did work out here. This one was cringe. I respect Becky a lot, but it was obvious. And then the self-glaze at the tweet follow-up. 

32:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It was just like too much the self-glaze, something I'll get into in just a sec. 

32:26 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This is like if I told Fluff like fluff, like hey, tweet out, uh, circles off two has been canceled for the rest of the sea. And then came back and was like, well, you know, we would never be canceled because it's been so popular so far. What a show. So, yeah, I just uh to have his, his own employee set the table for him on that so so hold that thought here. 

32:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
This is what I'm going to get into with these next two, because Mikey, over part of the bucket team said, been sitting on this one for a while and I think it's time to announce it. I will officially be stepping away from social media and sports full time. I know that may make some of you very happy, but for those that have supported every year, I love you and thank you, stay horny. And I love you and thank you, stay horny. And then Taylor Mathis said today is the day announcing that the walking bets are now retired. 

33:09
So this is the problem I have with stuff like this, because obviously this is mega cringe, but what this is going to do, it is complete self-glaze, because these people will post this and the entire goal of this post is to have people in their replies saying no, we love your content, please don't go. It is literally the only reason that they're doing this. They just want to pump their own fucking tires online and show look, all these people want me to stay. Oh, I was going to quit Twitter, but now everyone wants me to stay on Twitter, so now I'm going to come back. April Fools guys. I hate this kind of stuff. 

33:39 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I'm going to give Mathis some advice. We all know my history with her listen taylor. I've told you this before and I'll tell you again. You've made a mockery. Okay, you had some success with the walking bats. You're gonna be a mother soon. It's time to throw it away. Okay, you did what you did. Do you really want to be known for that? 

33:59 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
let's just move on from it I will say and we took a real curveball here because of that line it is exceedingly weird that it's continuing this late into her pregnancy. Exactly, we're going to put it out. That's what it's out for. It's getting significantly weirder the longer it goes on. I'll be honest yeah, Fluff doesn't want to wait into the waters. We're in with the. 

34:32 - Flup (Co-host)
This is too much. I don't care, she can do whatever she wants. I thought, Nadeau, you were being a little petty with Mathis, but I think Mathis was definitely in the wrong somewhere. 

34:41 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
but I don't care about what's going on with her Also, just in general, everything she tweets is so like, is so cringe. It's like a second grade, elementary school level of like. 

34:53 - Flup (Co-host)
I would have backed her up more if every tweet wasn't as cringe as hell. 

34:56 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yes, yes, if everything just wasn't absolutely painful. 

35:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, speaking of painful, amanda Vance tried to jump in on the April Fool's fun, said on Twitter. I've heard you all loud and clear the drinking needs to stop. Everyone likes sober Amanda better. This is my announcement that I'm officially done drinking. This isn't going to be easy, but I'm going to work hard at it every day. I appreciate all the support on my new journey. I don't know. 

35:24 - Flup (Co-host)
I guess I'm going to admit I got got for this one. I actually believed it for the first, like 10 minutes and then I read the supplies first line what is, I don't know. 

35:35 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Sober amanda. I don't know what's over. Everyone likes over amanda. About who's that? I've never seen that person this is why. 

35:42 - Flup (Co-host)
This is why I got got, because I thought she has a serious problem. It actually seems logical to stop the problem. Maybe someone in our friend group pulled her. 

35:52 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
But she has made and this is one of the worst things I think about these spaces. Not that I think anybody pushes this on, but she almost makes a mockery out of the fact that she is addicted to alcohol. I watch Intervention. None of those people think they have a problem. They laugh about it, I'll fine. And it's like no, like we're slowly watching, like, like if she shot heroin on every stream, like would we be like, oh yeah, this is so funny. It's like it's not funny, like you clearly have a problem. And it's like maybe you should just, seemingly, like flop said, maybe you should do some of this stuff. I mean, mean, she doesn't, I don't know. It definitely rubs me the wrong way because it seems like she she really can't function without drinking, you know. 

36:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, Not, not even make like a Q and a. They've been teasing for so long. You couldn't even make it through an hour of that one. One hour Just. Maybe after an hour you can start, but no, didn't even make it through one hour. Just maybe after an hour you can start, but no, didn't even make it through one hour. 

36:46
Last one we're going to cover here comes from Tiger Woods. This is one where somebody got got. It's amazing who got got in the end. But Tiger Woods said I can't believe I'm saying this, but a few weeks after rupturing my left Achilles which should take about a year to recover from, he says, the sleeping in the hyperbaric chamber plus the explosive lifts, my doctors and trainers have me ready to play the Masters next week. Can't wait. See y'all on the course. And then there's a reply from Jason Whitlock, former sports analyst, now doing conservative media, says amazing, Good luck, Tiger. Yeah, this is another one where you always say, like you know what nadoo just said it, like who would fall for this? And maybe it's not a 65 year old mom, but maybe it's a 65 year old boomer here. 

37:35 - Flup (Co-host)
And maybe it's a 26 year old, uh, um idiot on the internet. See, yeah, I'm reading for this as well that's true. 

37:42 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I'm reading into whitlock, though it wouldn't surprise me if he did this just because he knew he'd get engaged from it. I think he's kind of at the point with like where some of these people are, where he everything he puts out a lot of it's very thought through. I don't even think he probably runs his account. I muted him today. I'm done with him. I can't. I can't do it with him anymore. I'm done with Whitlock. I hate the guy. I can't stand him anymore. 

38:04 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, it's a weird like. He's like a poor man, a real poor man like Skip Bayless chick where, like he needs to take the certain takes to get but nobody really cares that much because people are just laughing at him. Yeah, whitlock is from a guy who actually had like a I don't know somewhat credible career for half of his life. He's now now like an absolute bozo, the clown for the last five plus years. 

38:30 - Flup (Co-host)
The problem is is when I see a post, see response and I know his side already. 

38:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

38:36 - Flup (Co-host)
That's when I know your career is over. Have some like. Have some nuance. 

38:41 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I will say, though he is very good at titles on YouTube. He put some like around that Joy Taylor YouTube. He put some like around that Joy Taylor incident. He put some funny titles out but like again, none of it's him, and like the whole Tiger thing, like I'm guessing he put that response out pretending he didn't. He got got but he just did it for engagement, like I don't know what's real about anything anymore. 

39:02 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I know and that's yeah. That is like the authenticity of just the Internet in general is like, as you always questioning, like wait, wait, did he do this on purpose? Even the original Tiger's Tiger is like he's like a male. Taylor Mathis, from like an Internet engagement standpoint of like everything is cringe, everything he said, like everything he tweets out from, like the whole like when it's a dating announcement to this tweet is like the least funniest person you know doing like a april fool's joke now the thing is when, when celebrities like people who have this much power, like tiger woods, does everything they've ever said is funny, because people are just gonna laugh at it. 

39:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So nobody's ever taught them or shaped them into actually being funny because they've spent Tiger's spent the last 30 years. He could say the worst joke ever. There's going to be thousands of people laughing at it because it's Tiger Woods. They've never been trained into actually being able to do anything funny. Because they think everything they do is funny. They think they're the funniest people in the world. Does that make sense? 

40:02 - Flup (Co-host)
Yeah, that's pretty well said. Actually, I would agree with that. 

40:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
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40:54
Now it's time to read some of your comments from last week's episode. We did bring up some of the comments here some positive stuff, some negative stuff as well, but let's take a look at the comments that we got on last week's episode, our debut episode here on the Circles Off channel for the Circle Back A team here, but this one comes from Charlie Bonds says I think Elf needs to have a conversation with Spanky, who left his show. Elf went out to dinner with him and then let Sean go unchecked making up lies on the spaces about Spanky. Spanky is well-respected in the community but Elf lets the worst of gambling Twitter say anything they want. Elf needs a backbone. So you know we talked about Elf platforming people and you know some people are allowed to speak but some people are not allowed to speak and all of a sudden Sean Perry could go off on any tangent here. The accusations continue of like Elf glazing his guests, no matter what. Do you consider that to be a problem? 

41:50 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I think he's getting more and more kind of inclined to like it was certain people. Again, though, we have seen him where, like even this bodybuilder guy recently, that's come on like some of these guys. I think the problem is they just take these shows over and they don't have any discourse with anyone Like what's his name? The one we just talked about with the glasses, the guy that says, uh, you know what's his name cash, no, not, not kasha king. 

42:15
The other guy yeah him like he just comes on and just railroads and goes over people like they. None of these guys can have any discourse, and I see the common thread, but a lot, sean Perry. They all are the same. They know that if they allow too many questions and this is why they're salesmen they're just there to. We're the greatest. They all have the same shtick. If you notice, we're the greatest gamblers in the world. Nobody makes more money than us. The one thing I said to King Cap the other night is, though you can make as much money as you want, you'll be a loser forever because you don't like. They're narcissists, everything is about them. They're the greatest, it's. It's all the same shtick time and time again, and I think I think I've realized they're entertaining. So he just lets them go. But I think in some respects, with like that comment, you are vilifying certain guests like Spanky by allowing them to say some stuff like that comment. 

43:06 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
You're vilifying certain guests like Spanky by allowing them to say some stuff. I love that point in terms of that. There was a on the sister show, on the B show. They had a debate about how talented of a host elf is and there's an element of he has to keep bringing on this type of person that just kind of comes on and is, like you know, kind of either spams themselves, just talks like mouth diarrhea or has to play some type of clown role because there's no real discourse. It's almost like a very Gen Z, like I just need someone to come on and act like a complete idiot to be able to get any type of like low rent entertainment out of it. Because it's like there's no real back and forth, there's no actual discourse, there's no question and answer, and it's just when that person then runs dry, then it's like, oh, let's bring up man in the library, let's bring up the beak, let's bring up like, let's bring up the next character to kind of keep the whole thing going. 

44:05 - Flup (Co-host)
I got to disagree with you. Maybe this is a bad way of looking at it, but I'm kind of a Windsor QB stack kind of guy. Look at his viewership. His viewership is killing everyone else and blowing everyone else out of the water. The Omar show is nothing compared to Elf's show, so I've got to think he's a good host. He's got something working for him. Until the viewership falls off a cliff, I'm going to have to say that he's a good host. 

44:28 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I think Joey is right in terms of people love drama. Right, if Jersey Shore was just them walking on the boardwalk and having dip and dots occasionally, we wouldn't care. We don't care that they go to clubs, we want to see them fighting and ripping hair extensions off and stuff. So that's why I got a kick out of the other night where these there are still commenters that are like I thought this was a sports betting show why are we talking? About nado's dick or something. 

44:53 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's like that's not what this show is anymore it hasn't been that show in six, but you're still tuning in for it. 

45:00 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
It's like some of these people are like, yeah, we want, we want a breakdown of the flames canucks game tonight. It's like, yeah, that's not what this show is. 

45:09 - Flup (Co-host)
Yes oh, if people go on like this nerd talk about how these like stats work, everyone, it's boring and everyone turns off. So but I would say, argue and do like. Is he not being a good host because he's hosting the drama and an excellent digestible? 

45:23 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
better. And that's where, with with elf, like is he tom brokaw? No, none of us are. But it's like you have to. It's not easy to like. You kind of want them to keep going and he does a good job of like muting people when they go on too long. I know he's kind of gotten a backbone with man of the vig, which I think at times is needed. Um, because again, like you have guests and it's like it's funny and man of the vid comes in with some stupid question about EV or something and it's like, yeah, we're kind of done with that at this point, like just let them do their nonsense. But I think he's a good host for what he's doing. Look, would he be a good podcast host? I don't know, but for this I think he's okay. 

46:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Perhaps part of hosting is like knowing when to let the guests just just take over for you, and maybe that's what he's kind of mastered, you know. 

46:10 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Flop are going to be public enemy number one by that little stunt you just had on a certain guy with a name Omar yeah. 

46:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Get ready, get ready to get called out. 

46:20 - Flup (Co-host)
He already told me I'm not ready for showbiz. 

46:21 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, you're not in the moment for showbiz. 

46:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, for showbiz, yeah, you're not in the moment for showbiz. Well, a little bit more coming at flip here, because the next comment is from at tommy dimes 5816. Uh, this is directly referencing your advice on the previous show about getting stiffed at a sportsman, saying it's kind of part of the game. But uh, the comment reads that's a terrible, saying that if you don't get stiffed, you are not taking risks. I worked hard for my money. I pay when I lose and I expect to get paid when I win. Nobody should lose a penny from not getting paid. Love the show. Uh, flop. How do you respond to? Uh, to this comment here? Because you said, like, as a sport, but you need to calculate the risk of going for maybe a shady book or something and sometimes you will get sick, but that's part of the risk yeah, I'm gonna double down on the saying because I think it's easy to back up. 

47:05 - Flup (Co-host)
This is common in like PPH account world. Say, you have a bookie, the PPH is very soft and it's easy to beat. You might be able to extract, say, $1,000 in EV a week, but let's say there's a 20% chance that you get stiffed for $1,000. This is an easy calculation. You have to take that risk. I don't want to bore everyone with math stuff. Just figure it out on your own based on this set. If I give, it's easy. It's easy to realize that you should take it, even though the fact that you're going to get stiffed 20% of the time because you're going to be generating so much money from when you do get paid. And I think the problem that most people including myself, I suffer from this too is the thought of getting stiffed and the thought of losing money in an unfair and unjust manner is so negative, in a way so heavy in your mind, that you you blow it out of proportion when you actually boil down the numbers. 

47:58 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
it makes sense to be aggressive and go for it yeah, I, you know what it's funny because fluff is was with that comment last week and kind of, what he's breaking down is a little bit more like if I compare to a college class like sports betting you know 301 or 501, not 101. It's more like you know the advanced stats or advanced calculus of sports betting. When you kind of start leveling up, um, and taking more calculated risk and like, of course, tommy on in a simple term, do you wish everything was like yes, I bet it, of course I get paid and all that, but there's an element in the game that you have to kind of take that additional risk for the reward. I think so many people I'll equate it to like. 

48:41
There's some people I work with who even like a Joey corporate, who will be like levels above me but would only be bad even if they know like, even if I give them a play that I'm telling them is very good, their risk tolerance, even though their salary might be 250 000 a year, is like five dollars a game because they have no risk tolerance when really it like their actual like. You know, if you do it like kelly bank stuff that you know they should be putting up, I'm giving them an edge that has 10%. They should be putting, like you know, $15,000 on it. But it's very hard to tolerate that level of risk If you're not used to it or accustomed to it, or just doesn't make sense to you. 

49:21 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
We also have to remember there's a large segment of this betting community Now. It didn't come up in the Wild West where they had to worry about not getting paid. They had to use PPH. I mean I remember growing up. I mean I used literally bookmakers that have been in the papers for decades as bookmakers, like they'd done years in federal prison for it, like that's not. I used to go to poker games. You have to worry about getting robbed at them, like these kids say to go to poker games, you have to worry about getting robbed at them. Like these kids say you go to a poker room, you play, you don't got to worry about getting robbed at a casino. And if I work with FanDuel and I bet with FanDuel, I don't got to worry about getting paid. I'm never going to have to live with that. So my guess is and Tommy shout out to you, thanks for watching my guess is he's the thought of getting stiff by book. It's just not, you don't have to worry about it now. Well said. 

50:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well said, I am 25 and I can speak to like what Tommy's saying here where, like like I said on the on the previous show, it takes like a certain level to take those risks. I myself am not in a position where I feel like that risk is is necessary for me to take on but completely understand people in different situations. Like that's a calculated risk. Last comment we're going to bring up here I, I promise, not my burner. I also promise I didn't choose the comments that are featured on the show today. I didn't choose this, I'm just going to read it out. Uh, this is from spencer rogers 6298 spencer rogers. 

50:40 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That sounds like a real person, I know no profile photo. 

50:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
A bunch of uh, random numbers to use. I promise not. My burner says I love circles off, but man the giant referencing myself my my given nickname by the community, the giant, absolutely carries this show. I don't mind more content from circles off, but the level of this show isn't even close to the og show on Tuesday. I might be too young, but Kanish and Nadeau talk out of their ass too much for me. 

51:09 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I love Kanish K-I-N-I-S-H, by the way. 

51:12 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I also love how he had to tell us he might be too young. Most of the people that hate me are between 19 and 25, right, I've always felt like that. It's always just how it is, okay. Well, I mean mean, what do you want us to talk about, spencer? 

51:29
my guess is you want us to come on here and break down every game for you. That's not what we're here to do. We're here to critique the fucking gambling industry. Dummy, um, so um. Yeah, I don't know what to really say about that, but hey we do been talking over our ass for 10 plus years. That's why they put us on the show but I feel like we've been pretty level-headed on this show, like what have we said? That was talking out of our ass. 

51:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I agree, I like, I wholeheartedly agree that's what's funny. 

51:54 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
If you want to see them talk, watch a space, not the circles off the spaces, sure yes, at 11 am arguing with, uh you know, some guy that's, uh, you know, has a shirt off screaming about you know, he stiffed somebody 10 years ago. 

52:06 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
So, spencer, here's a here's a challenge to you In this week's episode. Let us know in particular of what you're talking about, so maybe we can make an adjustment. We'll see what you said and we'll go from there. My guess is just, like I always say this 15 years I've been doing this, never had a negative interaction doing this. Years I've been doing this, never had a negative interaction doing this. So I'll challenge you, spencer let us know in the comments what condition I are talking out of our ass about. 

52:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'd be curious to know it sounds like he loves myself and jacob, though yes, surprisingly, the two youngest people here hey, if it's something you don't like about this show, comment down below with a time stamp specifically of what you don't like. But what's what's great about these comments here is that, like some of the comments were like like this they, they like me, but they don't like me doing some of them are like wow, it's great to have to do a condition this show. What the fuck is this random guy doing hosting this show? What has he ever done? So you know, there's a full spectrum of comments. So I think if we wanted to please everybody, just nobody would be on this show and and this show wouldn't exist. But alas, here we are. 

53:07 - Flup (Co-host)
I got to say it seems like I've had a lot of comments that Nadeau is a much better joff. I am not as pale as Kirk Evans, so definitely an upgrade there. And then I think Nish is just much more fun than Rob Pozzola, so I think this is definitely the superior team. 

53:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Quite a good blend it seems that we have here. Next up tweet comes from our very own Joey Knish, here talking about the landscape of college sports football and basketball. And Knish says in this tweet here not sure how college sports is going to solve the portal slash freedom of movement without multi-year contracts, which seems legally unenforceable. But especially in CBB, every team being brand new every year, plus any mid-major kid with a decent season leaving, seems bad for the sport. Well, sorry to you, knish, because it is your tweet year. Yeah, talk to us a little bit more about where you think college sports are heading. 

53:58 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I mean it just especially college basketball. If you're a fan and you part of fandom is getting somewhat attached to the guys that either you know play for your local team or go to your school or go to the team you root for and you're used to college athletics, you know it's football or basketball. A guy would spend three, four years you see him come up, come in as a freshman. It's like now you just have this massive free agency every single offseason with. I guess the part that bothers me most is like there's really I don't know a realistic solution of how this stops or how you get away from it or what even is enforceable. It seems like the NCAA just loses every court case now so they're not even trying to come up with any rules or enforce anything. So they're not even trying to come up with any rules or enforce anything and it's like I don't know that for the long-term growth or health of the sport, so many players changing teams every year and you having to get like adopt a full new roster of players every year is really sustainable as a product. 

55:07
I know it's listen, it's not on the same. College football's got their money a little bit more right and there's a little bit more stability just the nature of the sport and the size of the roster. But college basketball now is, I mean, the season's over and then you know how many of the guys do you even know, even on the big teams, are still going to be on the team next year. I just I don't know where this is going. I don't know how it gets solved, but I just think it has to be bad for the sport long-term. 

55:33 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Michigan was playing in the tournament and they literally had a guy in the transfer portal while they were in the tournament. It was what the Elite Eight? They have guys in the portal. I don't even know where you start. I was always one to say look, you're a college athlete, you're getting a free education for the most part, which 95% of people don't get, and they're in debt for years. And I think that's enough. Do I also understand? Yeah, they make billions of dollars and we should get something out of it, sure, but again, we also have a situation where a guy can make two, $3 million a year and you got a guy, maybe on the same team, that makes nothing, possibly. So it's just, there's no like happy medium with it. But I've noticed with American now, there isn't really any happy medium with anything. It's one extreme to the other. I think Joey's tweet was very astute and I don't know how you fix it. I mean, I think there were what? 2,000 people in the transfer portal when it opened. 

56:29 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
There's no structure, there's just no nothing. There's no rules, there's no structure. 

56:35 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
And another thing, too, that I also find super odd is like look, I'm not a big fan of Kevin Willard at Maryland right, he was at Seton Hall before that, but there's so many people this week talking about he's not loyal to anybody and it's like, yeah, in a world where no one's loyal, why do you expect him to be loyal? You have kids that can play at five different schools but were mad at a coach because he does it. None of these people have loyalty or ethics, and it's about wherever you're going to make the most money and play the most. It's just all hypocritical. It's just all hypocritical and they've got to do something about it. I don't know what that option is, but hopefully they figure it out. 

57:09 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
You're the smartest guy here. What are the? How do they think? What do they do about it? What was it? Even an option. 

57:14 - Flup (Co-host)
So I feel like. First I want to address a point you made to do. I feel like what it was beforehand was even worse, in my opinion. I consider the college athletes to be almost slave labor. I see these coaches like Saban making $12 million a year. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. I think he deserves every penny. He's the greatest college coach of all time but when I see him making $12 million a year and these players, some of them living off of food stamps or no money, it's just like this is ridiculous. They bring in so much money and why do they get nothing? 

57:48 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
It makes no sense but Fluff would you agree to the point, though, that we should have some sort of cap on how much people can make? 

57:56 - Flup (Co-host)
I agree. So this would be my recommendation, my solution to it. I really liked your idea of signing long-term contracts, joey, but I think to add on to that, what they do is they have a salary cup for each conference and they split all the revenue amongst all the conferences and every team gets an X dollar amount. That evens recruiting. So now you've got to really try to build your culture up that way. And sure, the SEC is going to have more money than the ACC or the Mid-Mountain or whatever conference there is, but it'll kind of cap the load for these schools and they won't lose as much money as it becomes more and more and they actually outbid each other and it'll give smaller schools a realistic chance to land someone. 

58:45
Good, because another thing they talked about on the B team on Tuesday is there is, you know Kirk was saying there's so much variance and it just was coincidence that there happened to be so many one seeds win, and that's true. But the real problem is these one seeds in these elite schools are going to get bigger and better and constantly grow that gap. So underdogs will be too unlikely to win to even have the variance to overcome and win. So I think a salary cap and then long-term contracts could lock in and guarantee money for the students and it could create schools willing to gamble on kind of undervalued players and give them a lot of guaranteed money so they could reap the rewards, if it works out. 

59:32 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, and to kind of go against what the B team said as well, and it was like I know it's one year. People want to say small sample in that. But the issue is the actual structure of the sport now has changed, where if you have a great year at a St Peter's, at St Joseph's, at Elkhorn State, you're gone, you're 100% gone. Like there is no year, two, three, four or guys sticking together. Anybody at those small schools gets a like, has a decent year, much less a great year. You're going to get a bag and I don't blame you. 

01:00:10
I wouldn't be sticking around and playing for nothing at elkhorn state. I would kentucky offer me two million dollars. I'm 19. I'm broke as shit. I'm taking the two million dollars. So until you can find a way to I don't even know what to say fix that, but create some type of structure that doesn't incentivize that. So much the lower level of this and same things happening in football. Like you're having this mass separation between the schools that have collective dollars and have excessive revenue sharing and the schools that don't. 

01:00:40 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Do you? Let me ask you one other point to this, on the level of like kids that are going to eventually go pro, right, we look at, even like the NFL. Do you think if you're a GM, do you put more stock in your prospect if he doesn't leave? So, for instance, quinn Jan Mitchell okay, he stayed at Toledo, could have went to Alabama. Didn't Eagles drafted him? Do you look at that and say, wow, that's pretty respectable. No one's done that. No one does that. Who's loyal right? 

01:01:07 - Flup (Co-host)
No one's loyal To me it's like Because they look at everything right? Yeah, sure they do. But like I'm a big Jets fan, one fan, one of my favorite players of all time, darrell Rivas that man was always paid. And guess what? I don't care that he's not loyal to me and he just wants the most money. I'll pay him whatever it's worth, because he's that good. So all I'm looking at FMGM is how is he on the field? Is he talented enough? 

01:01:29 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I don't care if he's loyal to the dollar versus the team, because if you really think he's that good, just pay him what he's worth what I also find funny, too, is most of the people that say these things on twitter and stuff like that, they would think nothing of leaving their company and going to another company, and then, if a week later they're at that company and another company offers them more money, they will go there and it's. This is the fascinating thing about the internet, um, but yeah, I hope, I hope they do do something, because then again I also will say like the ncaa tournament, it's not like. For like the last five years we haven't had cinderellas. I mean, didn't san diego state make the ncaa tournament final two years ago? It's like we had one year where we didn't see a cinderella in the elite age. 

01:02:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Like college basketball's screwed, and this is why it's like enough well the possibility of rule changes coming to NCAA sports, but rule changes are happening. Some did and some didn't in the NFL. The NFL owners recently improved several significant rule changes that are set to reshape aspects of the game. Notably, the overtime format has been adjusted to guarantee both teams a possession. Adam Chernoff, an NFL handicapper for right-angle sports, has been vocal about these changes, expressing his disapproval firstly for the new overtime rule. First of all, saying that well Sutton does with the best format. Every chain since has made OT worse. This just encourages more conservative, risk-averse coaching late in games. So didn't like that. One Hates that. One Does like the fact that there's no change to defensive holding, for right now it is a automatic first down. They were thinking about changing that, but if they had changed it. Trinoff thinks that Defender would have held every third and long Flag would have skyrocketed. Also loves that there was no ban on the touch push. The touch push is still here to stay because he hasn't heard a single logical reason from a coach or player why it should be banned. 

01:03:29
Hates the fact that there is now expanded replay assist. Replay assist is already vague and will now be used more. Just look at the CFL. Their expanded commands and reviews are a mess. The NFL had the same issue the CFL did with the expanded uh passing interference in 2019. And we're going down this road scrap coaches, challenges that just make, just just just make expanded replays uh, replaces on on every play, indifferent about the touchbacks moving to 35, but sees it as maybe an interesting way for kickers to be a bit more creative to get an advantage. Let's start first of all with the, the overtime rule and that changing here. Uh, we'll start with you fluff. How do you feel about this, this overtime change? 

01:04:09 - Flup (Co-host)
I'm torn. I like the consistency that it doesn't change from the playoffs and the regular season. I think you should have the same rules if you're going to do it. So I would either be in favor of changing it from the playoffs back to what it is in the regular season or what they did, and because I'm a fan of the playoffs, having the two chances, I want to see the best team win. I am a fan of this, even though I think in the regular season it's more entertaining. You give some weaker teams more variance. I think this is better for the NFL. 

01:04:43 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I, training you give some weaker teams more variance. I think this is better for the NFL. Yeah, I don't. I mean to be honest, I don't know why they haven't. Just I know why, because of kind of excuse, a lot of the, the player props and the, the the overall totals, and that I just I like the college overtime system is so much better. It always has been. I don't know why they, you know, I mean, I know they've put off going to that for a long time and still have, but now it's like it's inching its way kind of towards that. 

01:05:02
I would just like to see him rip the bandaid off and go college overtime and maybe that would change some things in terms of how people would have to grade. You know how massive the handle on the NFL is to have to grade things different way. I don't know, but from a, from an entertainment standpoint, I'd love to see just college ot um, the other one, I'll say I I kind of liked the replay assist, I'll be honest with you some of that like boom, instead of having to like throw a chance, like go look at the book if there's just an obvious like error that they can fix on the fly, which a lot of times it was like you almost didn't even know what was happening in a lot of cases where it was just boom, then the broadcast, they'll go replace this chimed in, they moved the ball, you know, a yard further, or this was obviously out of bounds. I disagree pretty strongly on that. I can't speak to the CFL. I didn't know that we're not doing the PI thing, neither can I, honestly. 

01:05:54
Yeah, I just. 

01:05:59 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I thought the replay assist uh actually made things more efficient. The tush push one I I was surprised they didn't maybe make an adjustment to it where you can't push right so like no one can. Let's say it's jalen hurts running it. No one can line up behind jalen hurts and push. I thought maybe they didn't do something like that I. 

01:06:14 - Flup (Co-host)
I think anything they changed in the tush fish would be weak sauce. Everyone's mad that Philly can do it and they can't. 

01:06:21 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
That was going to be my point. It's like everyone can do it, right? Eagles just got it to a point. And remember, too, it does come down to personnel. If the Eagles didn't have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, they wouldn't be as effective, right? They also work on it too. 

01:06:41 - Flup (Co-host)
It's like when you're bad at free throws if you work on them you might get better. Look what happened when, um, when kelsey was gone the first couple times early in the season, they didn't do as well because their elite center was gone. So this the tush push was ridiculous. I don't know that just screams, cry babies to me. 

01:06:51 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I also don't like, other than like changing whether people can line up and push. How would you really really like? What would you? Are you going to outlaw quarterback sneak? 

01:06:59 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I was going to say it's like 30 years of quarterback sneak in ways that they're just like really good at, with some extra guys pushing from behind. So, yeah, I'm with you. And you've seen other teams have had they just can't execute it in the same way. They don't have a quarterback that spots 500 pounds and a great you know the offensive line practice. So, yeah, I'm with you on that. 

01:07:19 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
It seemed like a ridiculous note and also literally, if you would bring up the whole, well, someone could get injured. It's like, okay, tell us who got injured off of it. Literally no one's gotten injured because also it's a sport, where you tackle each right yeah yeah 

01:07:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
full speed injuries are gonna happen, yeah yeah, they are trying to eliminate some of the injuries with the, with the, the touchbacks rule. Um, they mean they have. They've tried to deter people from returning the ball. 

01:07:45
Now they're kind of going back to right that that was like okay, we can't have kickoff returns at all and now we're going back to like oh touchbacks are stupid, we gotta go back there's a much higher frequency of injuries that occur on kickoff plays compared to any other play, which is why they've added these rules, so that they've just made it. 

01:08:04
There's a bigger incentive, I guess, to not return the ball. But now I do agree, kickers are probably going to be placing the ball a little bit more, because it's not even worth it to have that touchback. So this is a strange one by the NFL, but as, as a fan, like not thinking about injuries in that like it will provide, I guess, some more interesting kickoffs and it won't just be like a useless play anymore, I guess in some capacity. I still believe kickoffs should be like a fourth and 15 and then you can choose to punt, which most teams will. But if you want to do an onside kick, I do like the idea of it being like a fourth and 15 or maybe a fourth and 20 flip. 

01:08:44 - Flup (Co-host)
You don't like that I don't like that because of trick plays. I love watching a fake punt or like a or like an onside kick cut kind of situation, like I love that. Um, so I don't like where you have to announce it no no, I'm saying like. 

01:09:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
so what I'm saying here is like the kickoffs would always be a fourth and 15. So you can punt or you can just bring your quarterback out and run a play. I guess you're saying you don't want to see the quarterback come out on, essentially like a kickoff. 

01:09:16 - Flup (Co-host)
Well, if you're having to choose, am misunderstanding like if you have to choose, there's no trick plays right, or am I? 

01:09:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I mean you could, you could still roll out your punter and run a fake punt, I guess, on that oh, okay, if that's the case, then I then I support it, no problem it's treated like a fourth and 15. So most teams would punt in that scenario. But you do have the option of running a trick play. You do have the option of bringing out your quarterback throw the ball in fourth and 15 instead. I think that's probably the most exciting way to do a kickoff and I misunderstood and I agree with that, so I like that idea. 

01:09:46
Let us know in the comments if you like any of the rule changes or you dislike any of the rule changes. If you haven't already, make sure you check out rob's interview with joe brennan that dropped on our channel yesterday. Joe is a true pioneer of the sports betting world, with over two decades of experience in the space. This comes in both the legal and regulatory side of the industry, which allows Joe to talk about some of the amazing experiences behind the scenes that you're going to want to know about. He's been a key player in shaping the landscape of online sports betting and has even been involved in some of the biggest legislative battles for legalization in the US S. This interview is packed with insights on the evolution of sports betting, what it takes for change and how Joe sees the future of the industry. Trust me, this one is a must listen. Whether you're a seasoned sports better or just getting into the game. Go check out this episode now. But let's get back on the episode You're currently listening or watching, last piece that we're going to be going through here today. 

01:10:38
This is a tweet that comes from todd mcshay at mcshay 13. Um, this one caused a little bit of controversy because todd mcshay's recent involvement in nfl draft prop betting has sparked discussion within the community. He's known for his in-depth analysis on the draft, but mcshay tweet his confidence in matthew golden becoming the first wide receiver drafted, highlighting his impressive 40-yard dash at the NFL Combine. But while McShay's insights can be perceived valuable, his participation in betting raises questions about the potential conflict of interest. Does the crossover between analysis and wagering blur the lines between objective reporting and personal gain? Because you know what, if he tweeted this and he's trying to steam the market in the opposite direction compared to what he wants to bet? But also, yeah, go ahead. 

01:11:26 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
But also, like what intel does he get that? Like they don't have, I guess, Like I don't understand. 

01:11:34 - Flup (Co-host)
Isn't the idea he's like connected to teams and might actually hear what the gms are saying? 

01:11:40 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
yeah, but, if it was. But, but if that was the case, like wouldn't. 

01:11:43 - Flup (Co-host)
I mean, if I were for a team I would tell him bullshit all the time like how well so that I think the difference is like if I'm a gm and I like you as a reporter, I might give you real information and then I can use you when I want and have you plant stories and and you kind of working for me. So todd mcshay might actually have a lot of real valuable insight that none of us could get and either way yeah, I think this is horrible, horrible. 

01:12:11
This looks so bad. Draft betting is all information based. It's it's solely information-based, and of course, the reporters are going to have it and be able to manipulate it. This is a recipe for like lawsuits and disaster. Either way. 

01:12:26 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Look, it's not a 50-50 chance. By the way, Can we agree there? 

01:12:33 - Flup (Co-host)
What do you mean? 50-50? In what regard? 

01:12:34 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
That Matthew Golden's. The first receiver taken, I mean McMillan is. 

01:12:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, that's what the tweet's saying. He's saying it's better than 50-50. 

01:12:42 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Golden is the first Okay, my fault, I read it. Okay yeah. 

01:12:47 - Flup (Co-host)
I have no information to know. 

01:12:49 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
So it's a weird thing because the ring, like McShay's with the ringer now their fan duel, is a big sponsor of the ringer. So this kind of reads to me as like I don't know, a little bit of like a playoff. We're going to bury the books on this more and more as like a marketing tweet for for the ring, like for FanDuel, for working Todd working for the ring, like for fan duel for working todd working for the ringer. Um, again, I tend to kind of lean that agree with you guys of like I don't know how much great information these guys even get as opposed to, um, you know some of your, your standard reporter out there, um, and you know, turning it into a monetization, I don't know. I think it's kind of like a little bit of a lame. I'm not going to overreact and think it's making this big deal when I'm not really there on it. 

01:13:47 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Listen, matthew Golden is a great prospect, but there's no one on the planet that would say he's a better prospect than McMillan. No one, is he maybe better than like 30th? Yeah, he's probably like top 15. But McMillan's a bona fide top seven pick. I don't know what he would know that would make any difference in that. 

01:14:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, it's just like I remember when Shams and Woj were going back and forth pre-draft about who was going to be second overall pick between Scoot Henderson and Brandon Miller. Woj was adamant the entire time that it would be Brandon Miller going second. Shams, who does do a show with FanDuel, was adamant that it was going to be Scoot Henderson. So when Shams would tweet out the Hornets are going to go for Scoot Henderson, second overall market seems like crazy. So, people, I don't think Shams had any malintent in that, I think he just got poor information, but people did accuse him of saying that to manipulate the lines for a book like FanDuel. Now, I'm not sure that correlates, but it's just like. At what point do the people connected with these teams who are providing this content and doing this analysis, at what point do we say, like, maybe they shouldn't be betting or maybe they shouldn't be involved with sports? 

01:15:00 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
But this has all the makings of a boosted FanDuel thing coming for the draft where you're going to jump on with him and ride yeah. 

01:15:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, anyways, just overall, an interesting discussion surrounding at what point should you not be betting? Because I do know there's people at ESPN who, just out of like, like personally, just don't bet because they don't think it's right to be in the position that they are in, to be connected with these front offices and to be profiting off it from a betting perspective. So I don't know, I don't really know. There's no real regulation against it, so I don't know if there's quite a correct answer there, but that'll do it from us today here on the circle back a team for the Friday. If you did enjoy, make sure you do smash that like button. Also, make sure you're subscribed to the channel. 

01:15:45
We have two circle backs out a week. We'll have the B team coming back here on Tuesday. I will be involved with the B team in the production role there on Tuesdays at 8 AM. Sometimes we'll have Thursday interviews dropping at 8am as well. So there's plenty of great content here. Make sure you do as well. Leave a comment down below. Talk about something you liked, or maybe talk about something you didn't like from today's episode. Maybe timestamp it so we know exactly what to talk about. However you want to support, please do support the channel so we can keep doing content like this more often, and we will see you again next time. Peace out everybody.