00:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Welcome to Circles Off, presented by Kalshi. I am Rob Pizzola. We got a great episode for you today. I know we just announced his goodbye here on the network, but we miss him. We had to invite him back. He's now the head of trading at Novig Flop. It's been a long time, my man. Good to see you again.
00:33 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
I'm happy to be back. I had to come out for this one guest. He's got a special place in my heart. Lost some money from him. I got to pretend to be nice to him until I can finally get some back.
00:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right, we're going to talk about those interactions that you guys have had. We talked a little off air and you guys didn't know each other before, which was surprising to me. But today's guest is what I would consider one of the most fascinating and maybe polarizing figures in the space nowadays. He's the man behind the meme of if you saw X amount of dollars on the ground, you would pick it up, which I love that. He's a self-proclaimed minus EV better, but also a self-proclaimed plus EV better. That's also very confusing, but part of the shtick. He's the guy that pioneered LeBron James 10 plus points and he's one of the few people who can make money betting big favorites across the board. It is his MO. We're going to dig into prediction markets, exchanges, where the real edges lie nowadays. Fosen Poker now joins us Fosen. This is the big reveal, my man.
01:37 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Everyone's been waiting for this. This is why Fluff's here. Everyone knows it. He can't get enough of the Fosen clout. I'm happy to be on. This is cool. Thanks for having me.
01:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, it's great to talk to you. Fluff looks like a kid in a candy store right now. He's so excited.
01:56 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
In all seriousness, fosun is one of my favorite characters on Gambling Twitter. Just no bullshit. Plays it exactly how he sees it. Not trying to sell you anything, I think it's hilarious, all right, this is.
02:09 - FoaznPoker (Host)
This is circles off, exclusive, or actually you go ahead, I'll save it.
02:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Let me say no, no, you can't, you can't, you can't do that, all right yeah, a little circles off exclusive me and fluff actually are sort of friends.
02:21 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Uh, we don't hate each other. He likes me and I like taking money from him. It's a great relationship that we have.
02:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I love that, fosen, we'll get into your background in a second here. But there was a period of time where you deactivated from Twitter and you disappeared and I wanted to get you as a guest for this show and you and Flop would always converse on Twitter. So I just messaged Flop. I figured you guys had some sort of relationship. He's like no, I have no idea who this guy is, where he's gone, so I was just waiting for you to reactivate at some point. I had his Telegram but he deactivated his Telegram too.
02:55 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
He really went off the grid. Commit to the bit, baby Incredible.
02:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's a large commitment to the bit. Let to the bit.
03:07 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Uh, let's start with with just the fozen name f-o-a-z-n-z-n for the canadians. Where did that? Where did that come from? Um? So I used to play yugioh growing up and I was on like the pojocom forums. I was trading and whatever, and this I don't know how it stuck, but it was somebody else's username and I was like that's kind of a cool username and I signed up from like MSN poker to like free games. I was a kid as frozen, and then it just kind of stuck my. My biggest fear with the name, though, is that guy on POJO just going back and cause you trade and just ripping people off, and then it comes back to me. But it's tough, well and you, it comes back to me, but I just stole the username.
03:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
When you steal someone else's identity and then they go and do shady things, unfortunately it can fall back on you.
03:52 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Yeah, you're not wrong, but we're good for now.
03:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, so part of your Twitter handle is FosunPoker, so I think it's fair to assume that you started in the poker space before shifting over into sports.
04:05 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Yeah. So I'm 30 years old right now and 21 dropped out of college to play poker full-time, which was way too aggressive of a decision because I was not good enough at poker. I was probably making like 15 bucks an hour playing low stakes, six max max hyperglycerin goes. It wasn't fun, but grinded it up a little bit, figured out how to play. Some might say it's lucky. I invested in Bitcoin. I like to say I was smart, but now here we are Now.
04:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
here we are where you've adopted poker into your name, even though you were making 15 bucks an hour on average.
04:45 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Well okay, back then when I was 21,. These days when I played and even to this day I can probably make low to mid stakes online tournaments I can 15 table pretty comfortably. I'd say about a hundred bucks an hour, which is really high for an ABI of like 20.
05:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
If you guys know much about the online poker world, yeah, you have now kind of come into the space and you've built up a brand for yourself. Essentially, that's kind of rooted in this sarcasm of like I'm really good, better, but you showcase the losses. You don't sell pics. How much of this is like deliberate, in the sense of you planning around this entire Twitter account versus it just naturally being a reflection of who you are as a person?
05:42 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Um, I definitely didn't think it would grow this fast, so it more spontaneous and um. Can you repeat that question?
05:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I just some people come in with, especially with social media nowadays, and they're trying to build a following. They will engagement farm intentionally. You, you know and I want you are in sense, in the sense of the word, an engagement farmer or an engagement baiter. But I wonder how much of that is intentional versus just being a reflection of who you are as a person. And just for me, foes and I don't know the same thing for flop I just tweet what comes into my head and people are like, oh yeah, but rob your, rob, you're engagement farming with this. Like no, it's just an opinion of mine that I wanted to get out there. How much of that for you is natural versus like, deliberate versus not deliberate?
06:37 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Most of it's natural, but there's definitely engagement farming. That goes on. That goes on A couple. About a month ago, when I came back, I had a 50K bet that I was like kind of teasing, didn't want to give out right away. And then, one of the smartest moves I've ever done, I tweeted out that I was going to lock my account before I would release the pick and I gained like 250 followers that day and I didn't end up locking my account and I knew I wouldn't. It was all just to gain followers. So I would say most of what you see from me is real, like when I say my bets are minus CV and I'm saying don't tail me, like that's kind of the real me. And I'm saying don't tail me, like that's kind of the real me. But I definitely play into the shtick of free money and asking for likes on Twitter, which I don't do too often, but that's another easy way to engagement farm. So, yeah, kind of definitely a half.
07:39 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
And half kind of thing. So someone else on this network, Kanish, argued that because you have this jokey personality and you say that that people might not take it seriously and tail your picks and lose money, Do you feel some sort of responsibility for those people?
07:58 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I knew Kanish would be brought up and I'm waiting for it. I do feel bad when people lose money tailing my stuff. Um, I don't really have anything else to say about that, except I mean, if you're able to bet on sports, you're an adult. You need to be able to figure out what's good and what's bad. I tell you it's bad. If I tell you it's bad, you keep and you want to bet it anyways. It's bad If I tell you it's bad and you want to bet it anyways. I think that's on you personally. And then am I allowed to take a little shot at Kanishk?
08:31 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You can take a shot at whoever you want. The floor is yours.
08:33 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Especially Kanishk. All right, I was going to anyways. But so he says I'm bad and it promotes irresponsible gambling. He's not wrong. However, he is on two gambling podcasts.
08:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They're both sponsored with you guys, right, they are both sponsored Kanisha's on this Circle Back sponsored by Kalshi, and another Hit the Book sponsored by FanDuel.
08:59 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Yeah, the one sponsored by FanDuel. I see he's got their little four-leg parlay around Robin. And if we want to talk about leading people in a bad direction, only, oh, here's the bets, but only on FanDuel, when, realistically, let's find the best price, let's tail it. And also from a novice bettor. If you see, when I think of Kanish, I think of professional gamb gambler and I think he's pretty smaller, smart. He knows what he's talking about. If I'm a novice, I see him saying those things I might bet more money than I normally would. So I think he might have the right message. But just as a little shot back to him, I think it's the wrong messenger because maybe his stuff isn't as bad as mine, but it's in the same ballpark.
09:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, no, I think that's totally fair. I don't want to run from it. I mean, part of our structure at the hammer here is we monetize through partnerships, whether that be with exchanges, prediction markets, sports books. That's what pays the bills for us as a network. With that said, we don't really have requirements in terms of what we need to give out. Part of the reason that that round-robin money-line parlay ends up being given out is because it can be featured in the carousel on FanDuel's website and it will get us more exposure to do that.
10:23
But your point is fair. I mean, if it was just a regular losing content creator doing that, I'm sure he would be shitting all over them, as would I. I think the messaging is important, though, fosen, like that's where I would draw the line, where it's like you can still, in my opinion, engage in the pics culture. It's just what your messaging is like, and if you're being transparent about it, I mean there'll be oftentimes where I'll do a live watch along in this studio over here and I'll bet something in game and be like I actually don't even know that this is an edge or not, but I want to root for this and I think, as long as you're being transparent with the audience. This is just my opinion. You tell me if you disagree, but I think, as long as you're just being real and authentic with the audience and they have like the full scope of everything, ultimately it's on them whether or not they want, want to tailor, not I completely agree and I I don't think anything.
11:14 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I don't think you guys do anything bad. It was just kind of, if I look through it in his lens and like you put a mirror up to him, it's kind of like it it's not bad, like I don't think it's bad, but from his point of view, use what he's saying about me can kind of be said um with what he does, what you guys do, having gambling podcasts yes, so I'm not going to speak on his behalf.
11:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Maybe at some point we'll get you guys on together or something and do some sort of round table debate. I think generally people who give out big money line favorites are frowned upon. This started many years ago with the infamous Fezzik-Purdue money line parlay and the whole shtick was all like great, now someone bet a minus 8,000 and they lost and I'm singling him out. But tons of people do this. So I think it might stem more from the fact that you're advising people to put advising in quotations here to put money down on a big favorite and if people don't know how to stake properly, it could mean catastrophic losses. But I do want to get into that a little bit more Fosen, because that's like your MO.
12:29
It's the shtick I have seen you give away like normal spreads Apologies for you losing on the Jets Flux Jets against Eric Eager's Panthers this week. So I've seen you give those. But generally you're giving out big favorites. Is that mainly the way that you're betting? Like of your betting portfolio, how much of it is big money line favorites versus other bet types?
12:52 - FoaznPoker (Host)
so I mean my betting portfolio these days are just, I mean, I I guess I didn't get into it. I used to bet professionally after poker. Now I'm just betting for fun and that is 90 something percent of my portfolio. But and I put it, my twitter profile I put in my bets. I think most of them are minus ev, except in football. When you're playing on the exchanges you're basically flipping quarters. It's at worst. You're doing minus one percent. It's just pretty easy way to have some risk-free fun. That's not a great way of putting it, but I'm not losing huge, as if I was playing on like draft kings or something right flop does it surprise you?
13:41
yeah, we both.
13:43 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
What we said go ahead what kind of better were you top down origin? You both. What did you say? Go ahead, flop. What kind of bet were you Top down originating?
13:50 - FoaznPoker (Host)
and then, how was your style to earn Top down 100%? I'm an odds jammer, unfortunately, wow.
13:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But you and Flop, wow, Wow. Flop's an odds jammer.
13:59 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Flop was an odds jammer, that was my start, my start was my start.
14:03
My start was OddsTown. That was my start. Well, I guess my original start was grinding boosts and promos and back in the day if you just grinded boosts and promos and maybe had a friend or two, I mean they were $50 maxes. There were a ton on every website. It was like a 100k gig just doing boosts and promos. It was a really good deal. But then after that, uh got into odds jam and gets worse.
14:35
I was an arbor, that's just um, got all my that was basically all my volume for for nba. For a long time was just arving and then got into live betting, which that really became big, like two years ago, I want to say when oj added it, um, and the edges there are pretty big. Again I was arving. It's not one of my proud things to admit. And then these days I'm not going to give all the free clout. But there's another one um, it's kind of smaller. Um start with bookie and it's, it seems, pretty good. People are winning on like bookmaker and the exchanges and 10 fan duels might have to hop back in there yeah.
15:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So I'm curious. Then it seems like you knew what you were doing and now you're saying you're betting more casually. Is that you like what? What's the the rationale for that? Have you lost edge? You just don't care as much anymore? You've made enough money where you can just casually bet. At this point. Why transition towards a more recreational approach?
15:48 - FoaznPoker (Host)
um, too rich to care. I guess I've been in bitcoin for 10 years. I've so like in the 200 range of bitcoin. I've just been saving money, so earth has been my savings account, so I have enough money to just kind of dick around with, for lack of a better term. I think it's fun, and sitting in front of an odd screen during a six-hour football slate isn't as fun as just betting one thing and having all four screens of YouTube TV up just watching the games.
16:24 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
Right, that is the most baller answer. I love that. Too rich to care, don't need to worry about it. Let you idiots deal with the pennies and stuff.
16:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well see, the difference between me and Fosen is that Fosen didn't sell 30 Bitcoin, you know five, seven, eight years ago to renovate their basement, like I did, and then eventually sell that house the world's most expensive basement for the pizza man over here whereas Fosen's casually firing minus 8,000 favorites on a day-to-day basis. Doesn't even care if he loses.
16:57 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I mean you look at some of Fosen's old Coinbase transactions. He wishes he had some back.
17:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You know. So interesting that you say that I haven't done this in a while because it's a bad exercise for your own mental health. But every now and then I go back six, seven, eight years ago. I check some betting account, my old nitrogen account. I go look at like some random futures bets that I placed at the time. I was just messing around. I was. I was like one night I watched an NBA game. I'm like, yeah, I have to bet the warriors to win the title. And you look back on it now and you're like, wow, you know, I torched $75,000 on a warrior's future bet because I was betting in Bitcoin at the time. I wonder if you ever do that where you just go back and look at past transactions and then like equate them to what they would be worth nowadays.
17:50 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Unfortunately I do. I see those 30 Bitcoin purchases that I'm funding my bet online account to play $15 double up sit and go's. I'd just be having a real job not losing money in poker and I mean I never would have found Bitcoin without offshore gambling. So it goes hand in hand. But that's where most of mine are and it's like make a stupid bet here Just messing around Even small bets. Back then it was like a $100 bet. It's like half of Bitcoin. I'm like, oh, there's 60 grand down the toilet. I should be. I should be sitting on a billion. Instead, I'm talking to you guys.
18:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Wow, um, that's funny. Uh, so this is totally not turning out the way that I thought it would be, and this is good. But you're betting these big money line favorites on the Twitter account and you say you're just doing them for fun, casually. But there's got to be still some approach or some sort of process that goes into it. I imagine that, even though you deep down know that some of these are minus EV, I'm guessing you're putting some work into it and you're actually trying to find good bets. I mean, you could tell me if I'm wrong there, but I'm curious if there's an actual process or if this is just literally like darts at a wall type of situation and whatever happens happens.
19:24 - FoaznPoker (Host)
So I think I know, ball these, these nfl markets, they fucking suck. I own them. Um, okay, maybe, maybe not that much, but I I kind of think I sometimes have an edge, especially when you're playing on the exchanges. Uh, I don't know if I'm allowed to shout these, shout out CalSheet, but ProfitX, they have 1% fees. I'm Fosen so I pay 0% because I tweet out their slips. Yeah, novig, their prices are going to be so easy to beat now that Fluff's head of trade are there. I mean I'm probably just printing dollars now that we really get into it.
20:08
I think the tennis bets are good. That's where I really got into the big outside of the LeBron stuff. I think the tennis stuff is good. Maybe not on the exchanges, because they don't have the void clause like FanDuel if you retire, you get your money back. There's some that I haven't tweeted out, but I'll like. It'll be like a minus 50,000 for tennis and it'll be Yannick Center up two sets in the third set it's like 5-3 for some random guy. I think minus 50,000 is printing. And then you combine that with edge boost, it's like a minus 15 000 instead of a minus 50 000, it's for sure uh plus ev.
20:55
but I. So I do say my bets are minus ev. They theoretically and technically and probably just are, but especially NFL I like to think that I know ball and so maybe I'm just a bottom up. Better now, I'm not a degenerate, I just originate.
21:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, and you use, interestingly enough, like other tools, like an edge boost to bring your price down as well. Right Makes a lot of sense.
21:26 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
Wait, wait, frozen. I got to ask with with the exchanges? I mean, you know, take the LeBron 10 plus, you know you've got extremely intelligent counterpart. No, I don't. Aren't you worried about adverse selection?
21:42 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Not at all, especially the LeBon market I'm playing against the biggest idiots in that market especially okay, not even flop, flop.
21:51
Uh, I'm sure you had a process. Whatever you look at my bet slips and I'm not saying that my, my legs are winning or my uh, lebron is for sure winning, but on the other side, for me to uh get like 20 000 to win 500 it's so many, like five dollar bets, ten dollar bets, two dollar bets on the other side to where, um, on those they're not. And then I I do think you probably think you have a good idea of what the number is. You've probably done some nerd shit with your. Oh, lebron will get injured in the second quarter this amount of time, and that's just another example of me knowing ball and you not. He got hurt, he'll come back, he'll get his 10, he'll leave the game. It's very simple.
22:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Kirk Evans did an entire newsletter on this topic on the 10 plus and trying to actually price it. So, fosen, were you the originator of this? Like, did this start with you? This was me, yeah, okay, you created an epidemic in the space of some of the dumbest people who were actually tail at the worst prices at some point. That logically made no sense, but it also created such good content for a very long period of time. There were a few sweats that were in there for sure.
23:17
I think there was like a third quarter where LeBron went into the. I want to say he went in with four points, maybe six points, three into the fourth. So it it actually made things really fun and at that time, spaces was big. At that time, me and Fluff, we couldn't get enough of it. We were on to like four in the morning in some spots and the amount of content that was just created about this one bet type it. It blew up. And it's actually crazy to think that it started with you because you had a pretty small Twitter following at that time. I I'm just like trying to piece it all together of how this thing became as enormous as it was, with you being the foundation point of, of everything, um, and how. You even found it like what, what, what, what was this for you? Like where? How did you come across this so?
24:10 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I first found it. Just, I guess I don't know I saw lebron 10 points and, like he always scores 10 points, I knew of the streak. I'm not even a lebron stan uh, that's another circles off exclusive on twitter. I, I am a LeBron Stan, but yeah, I just saw him like this has to be good and I tweeted it out and I added like acted a couple of people it was like Brett, nba Green Beans and Flop's favorite guy in the world. I like Brett. I know you guys don the world. I like Brett. I know you guys don't, but I like Brett and then a couple others.
24:49
And I've learned, and I already knew to a degree you combine LeBron James any of those like LeBron tweets are huge on Twitter Combine that with quote unquote big money on a bet slip, bet slips, big money, lots of views and put those together. You get a little bit of traction. It's just going to take off and it did. And so that's how I found it, that's how it got off the ground and the very first game he scored like 11 points. It was a fourth quarter sweat and I hadn't been on Twitter really before.
25:29
I had less than 500 followers for sure when I initially tweeted out probably less than 300. And I just had all these people making fun of me like what the hell is this? Of all games, you're going under this one. And he scored. And I swear to God, the announcers mentioned me basically because they laughed and they're like, oh, we were going to say it too if he didn't do it. And they didn't, like, actually say what it was, but at least in my self-centered point of view, they were talking about foes and pokers bet that went viral on twitter and that was one of my more fun sweats.
26:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Um, another one sorry, sorry, I'm gonna cut you off.
26:13 - FoaznPoker (Host)
You consider that a fun sweat yeah, that's I mean, especially when you like, especially in hindsight when you win um at the, and that one in particular, because I didn't have a big following. I hadn't been used to people just making fun of me all the time. My hands were a little nervous and I was like this sucks, I'm the main character of Twitter. It's a bad day. But now all the other ones are fun sweats. I I'm more or less used to it.
26:45
99% of the things that people say aren't going to get to me. Some people they're a little wild on Twitter and I'm not saying like I beat them up or anything, but it's just like people on Twitter say things that they would never say in real life. It's just insane how mean people are. It's just saying all sorts of words. They're not real death threats, but I've gotten death threats. It's like what are we doing? But for other good sweats. The other one was against the Pacers, where LeBron actually got hurt earlier in the game Fluff, right, was it that game that he got hurt? And yeah, one of the ProfitX guys added me and Flup and Flup didn't know at the time and I have a great screenshot of him replying.
27:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh my.
27:33 - FoaznPoker (Host)
God and he got to 11 or whatever in the fourth quarter.
27:41 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
I had a big bet that I had like 5K to win 350, so that was a huge stretch for me.
27:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What was flop the counter party on, like all of these bets, basically um, not at the beginning.
27:52
I think it took him a while to get in okay because I remember you guys talking about this on a space and I tuned in very briefly and, um, I remember you, fosen, saying, like this is impossible to price, like how can you possibly factor in anything here, motivation, whatever, and you just intuitively thought it was good. And I know Flup, I've known Flup for a little bit of time now and he's going to try to price things accurately. So I just found it of time now and he's going to try to price things accurately, so I just found it. I found the back and forth between you two to be I I was not invested in any lebron 10 plus stuff at any point through this, but I was kind of just living through the nightly updates from you guys and, and I guess, the sweats as well, um, so yeah, I found that a really interesting one.
28:45 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
For what it's worth. Like it took me a while because, like I thought Fosun was winning in the beginning, Like when he was laying like 20 to 1, 12 to 1, 15 to 1, like it's hard for me to see that being bad bets. But then when it got to 55 plus to 1, that's when I was like I started to question. So I think a lot of times we were opposite sides but different prices. Like I might have had 70 to 1, he might have laid 50 to 1, right, we both could theoretically be winning yep over a long enough sample yep.
29:14 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Well no, you can't be winning on lebron under nine and a half. That's cute theory you have there, um. But to the impossible to price thing, it's kind of like the bell curve meme. There are people on the two sides that, oh, he'll score 10 points and there's flop in the will. He could get hurt, he might not actually care about it and, like us on the sides are just chilling, raking in that fluff money which I don't know if you guys have ever had the pleasure of taking money from fluff. It's about 10 X as valuable as regular money. Oh, so good.
29:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, listen, I actually quite like Flop. So you know we play poker together in Vegas and I think we both ended up in the game. I didn't directly take his money, but it does feel good to win a pot against Flop, like it's, you know, especially if you bluff him. Oh man, there's just not much. There's not much better in life than that flop. It's not much better than that we've actually frozen I was playing against poker.
30:12 - FoaznPoker (Host)
We did, I uh, I got stacked by flop and that is just might be bottom five moment of my life. Oh, I don't blame you and God, I wish those games didn't blow up Because I was telling Flubb. I mean, I'm sure you guys really want to hear about these poker games again that everyone tried to raise. I think what you guys really wanted was just a little bit more talk of them. So I'll bring it back up.
30:41
Um, I, I was going to uh change my whole sleep schedule around these games because it was like 10 20 with just a massive whale and I so I only played it at the one night lost two grand to club. We don't need to talk about that. But in the little telegram chat him and that whale were playing heads up to like four in the morning at massive stakes or 10, 20. And I was quick little ballpark math. I'm like what he was doing, just you could probably like seven x-rays and he's just going to flat his entire range. You're probably making like a thousand bucks an hour at 10, 20. So I was going to, I was going to change my whole schedule around it and then idiots had to cry that it was cheated. Even if it was, I'm beating the game. If it's cheated, the guys are not bad.
31:31
It was fine. Let fozen make some money oh, those were um.
31:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Those were definitely interesting days. I had several conversations with flup through that period honestly.
31:43 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
when fozen said there kind of sums up my thoughts I was more insulted that you thought I was a bad enough poker player that I needed to cheat to win those games. Just look at how they're playing. I played semi-professionally for years. There's no way I'm losing and I'm winning many hundreds per hour.
32:02 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I'm a sit-and-go tournament player. I started in six max hyper turbos, go to MTTs. I don't even play cash and I know that I'm just sitting down printing money. I can kick my feet up, get drunk off my ass 500 an hour easy. I don't even know. I mean, fig was probably pretty good in those games. I guess I don't really know anyone else. But people were just open limping like it was a one, two live game, like what are you fucking doing?
32:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
yeah, then, then you guys had to cheat the fucking game that. That could have been the the true american dream. Right there, get drunk off your ass, make 500 bucks an hour yeah, the american dream and flop.
32:46 - FoaznPoker (Host)
You ruined it all, man yeah, you just had to go cheat the game that's it.
32:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Unreal um fozen. So after the lebron 10 plus craze, have you been looking for like another one of those? Have you been actively trying to find something that you can bet every single night and really dig like boots into the ground and be like I'm right on this, I'm gonna bet this repeatedly? Have you tried to go down that path?
33:12 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I have, and there's just nothing. I'm blurry, yeah, it's okay, don't worry, um, but there's just nothing. The lebron 10 is something special. He has his streak, he's going to be out to start the season and I've gotten questions like oh, who's the next 10-plus guy? It doesn't exist. They don't have the streak, they don't have the want to get the 10 points. And then, of course, like ProfitX was like, hey, let's do it with Paul Skeens getting a strikeout or two. It's like I don't want to do that. That sounds boring.
33:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You want to set it on your own terms. You want to find something yourself, not what they're handing down to you.
33:54 - FoaznPoker (Host)
And so I play into the foes and schtick for sure, but I don't like betting just to bet, just to get a tweet out there. I like to do something that I think is good no-transcript, that could be some kind of a shtick and do it, but it's just. I'd like to at least be somewhat true to myself, and there's nothing that I've been able to find.
34:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I still feel like there has to be more to your process than just scanning the board and being like, nah, you know this feels wrong, I'm going to bet this. Or is it really just because I mean, listen, it can, it can work. I guess if you in your head can kind of price things or be like I think this is wrong, I guess that can work in some capacity. That you're not. You're not doing any research, you're not handicapping, you're just you just open, open up whatever. You open up your calci or whatever, and you're like, just this is just just ball knowledge, baby.
34:58 - FoaznPoker (Host)
That's all I need you got. You guys enjoy the odd screen. You guys have your, your little models. You do your research. I'll open up my app. I'll see yeah, that doesn't, that's probably good. I'll bet on that. Yeah, so I'm also to get into that. I'm up around 160 K, I think it's 158 something.
35:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What's the breakdown there? Fosen of, like a prediction, market slash exchanges versus traditional sports books.
35:29 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Most of it is exchanges. I actually downloaded an app because they're like talking to me. It's like juice, real or something. Yep, I'm up 80k on profit. Uh, novig, I'm up like three or four k. That'll get up to like not for long, buddy, and that's not about to say that'll get up to about 200k. And calci, I think I'm only up 30 something k, which isn't that impressive when you have a 59k win on the thunder yeah, plus you have peanut better on the leaderboards all the time as well, you know, oh my god, like there's one person you'd want to crush in those leaderboards, it would be peanut better, that's for sure.
36:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That would be fun and I was going to say something, but I have a small brain. Well, you're going through your breakdown. What do you do with traditional sportsbooks?
36:31 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I don't really use them much anymore because the only one I'll really use is FanDuel because I can bet on that one.
36:35
All the other ones I'm limited on. I think if you post a bet slip from a P2, you're just a literal idiot. Nothing good can come of it. Totally agree. You're either outing yourself as a moron or you're just putting out your P2. Be like, hey, look at this, it comes back to him in some ways. So basically, just so. The exchange is just for being able to get money down. Um, my fan duel used to be 10. Now that I bet like an idiot, it's 37 and a half percent. So I'm still limited on fan duel. Yeah, um, but they are by far the best rec book and I don't think anyone would argue that.
37:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
And yeah, so basically just exchanges, just for the volume aspect of it so again, I'm interested in that because you're gonna get matched against a market maker a lot of times. You're, you're, you know at the amounts that you're betting. It's not a lot of retail flow, so you're betting and over a fairly decent amount, a decently large sample. You're winning with intuition, which you rarely see happen. Out of curiosity, do you and Flop know what your record is when being matched against one another? Have you guys tracked that? Either of you?
37:59 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
I think Fosen is certainly up, because I only got like one against him and he was like he had like many LeBron, 10 plus I had to guess he's probably up in the range of five 10 K on me. Does that sound? It's not a huge number.
38:13 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Yeah, okay, I will, I will. You guys will be seeing that clip on my twitter account of how I am up five or ten k on flip.
38:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So but but then flop is gonna pull like the ultimate tout move and he's gonna be like well, if you avoid, you know, if you take out the lebron stuff, then I'm up right exactly, exactly right.
38:34 - FoaznPoker (Host)
But that, uh, you made me remember what I was going to say earlier. Um, saying that I'm up over a significant sample. I don't agree that it's that significant. Okay, because one, it's large favorites. You're playing large favorites, you can just go on runs. I don't bet every day like for football, it's been just on the weekends the lebron 10 stuff, and then tennis favorites. Uh, I do tennis favorites in the majors, I just do alchores and center, and then they play each other in the finals every time. That's awesome. You can't, you should look into it, but you so you just so hold on before. I'm just gonna to forget. You combine big favorites and then you just throw in a little bit of Martingale. It's not that insane that I'm up as much as I'm up, because it's just like I'm running good. I don't think it's a significant sample to say I'm winning long term. I don't know. Also, I'm just super term, but I don't know. But also I'm just super smart. My ball knowledge is probably just carrying me to victory.
39:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, plus your bankroll management with the martingaling puts you at next level. It's your ball knowledge plus bankroll management as well.
39:50 - FoaznPoker (Host)
See, that's what you idiots don't understand. You guys have your 1% of your bankroll. Just bet a unit and you lose. Bet two units and bet 4, 8, 16. Just don't run out of money. Go to Cal State, go up against their market makers. You got a million dollars each side on NFL, just win.
40:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All you got to do is win. Yeah, I mean, if you lose, you just dip into cold storage, crypto anyways, and you just go right back at the process, right, exactly.
40:17 - FoaznPoker (Host)
You know you want to look into the life of those and you go to the bank where you got your little thing stored and you'll get some crypto. You can even deposit crypto on Kelsey Hashtag ad. Can't do that on Novig, can you Flo?
40:33 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
You can deposit crypto on Novig oh fuck, when did that happen, flop has been making major changes right when he came in the door.
40:41
Scott, I will shout out. I wanted to say I will shout out Kalshi here with Rob's question Adverse selection. When I post a make order on Kalshi and I see, like Fosen talked about this, you see the fills come in at like $5, $25 or $50 at a time and you know that Robinhood has like 5, 25, 50 shares and you're like I'm not really scared of that counterparty. It's not real adverse selection.
41:10 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Yeah, I obviously don't make orders, I just go click.
41:18 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
This is so fascinating. So much of what I do is predicated. And listen, we're very different bettors and I can acknowledge that and I'm not dead set in my ways. But I'm kind of methodical with the way that I do things. Especially if I'm going to bet into an exchange, for example, I'm always looking at the amount of liquidity that's being offered on a specific game, things of that nature, and that might alter my opinion on, maybe, how strong my position is or whether I want to be betting into a certain market, and it sounds to me, like you do, none of that, zero. Like you, just you fire. You see something and you don't care and you fire correct.
41:59 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I uh circling back got him uh to my texans bet I was like, yeah, let's take circa on, let's play, let's play circa which, by the way, my bet closed good versus the market on circa.
42:13
So I own jeffrey benson. I don't think he doesn't want me coming in there tweeting out my bet. Slips like C-Blaz does Way too scared of the foes in poker action. I like Jeffrey Benson, I'm sure you guys do too. But I'm just going to go on a little rant here. The sharps on Twitter that are just oh, Circa's awesome, Circa's doing this, that you guys don't place a single bet on Circa.
42:42
If FanDuel DraftKings were like Circa, they'd either oh, not FanDuel. If DraftKings, mgm Fanatics, they were like Circa, they'd either be out of business or you'd be out of a job. So, like you can say Circa's good and they are, they're great, they don't limit, you can get down, they're perfect for me. They don't do anything for the 99% that are saying how great they are. You guys need to shut up, know your role and shut your mouth.
43:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I think each sportsbook or whatever it's going to be prediction market exchange, they all have their own separate things that make them good for certain bettors and maybe not for others. I think we can all agree a book like circuit, I mean they're not. They just don't have the prop offering that a lot of other books do sgps like and yeah, people might be losing betting that stuff, but it's what they want to bet and ultimately I do think that they're striving to get to that point. I remember when we talked to Matt Metcalf on here was after he left Circa, but he had was working with a company called Mojo on deriving, like um, some very, very different types of props that sharp books could leverage to use and like get you know, take real bets on them and things of that nature.
43:59
But you, you raise a valid point. I mean I'm not Nevada based, I'm not in a um a state that I'm in Canada, like I can't bet through circa personally, they get a lot of my volume, but um, I, I, the experience for me is just all about I think that they treat betters like fairly and yeah, and if you're a sharp, that's kind of all you're looking for in the space is just treat me fairly. I think that's why they get such a good rap I I'm more.
44:29 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I just like taking shots at the sharp people that tend to cry on twitter, and they I I'm also circling back to that as well. I'm surprised you had you like that, rob.
44:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You're a pro man. I think if you weren't so rich from Bitcoin, I would offer you a hosting gig right after the show. But you know, unfortunately we're not going to be able to meet the demands.
44:54 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Hashtag let's build you know it's, unfortunately, we're not going to be able to meet the demands hashtag. Let's build but, um, like you're as far as I'm on, because your audience doesn't like me. I don't know if you know that, but a lot of you'll click on, so you'll have like people comment and you know the twitter accounts with like 400 followers but there's 300 mutuals, so it's like oh, you know that they're in the know, so many of them, whenever I lose they're not following me. I'll make sure to reply to me and tell me my whole world story or my whole life story on twitter. Yeah, I, I'm not saying I dislike your audience, but we don't get along, sometimes well.
45:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Sometimes I don't get along, sometimes Well. Sometimes I don't get along with my own audience, and that's fine. A lot of my audience now are people that used to roast me nonstop on Twitter 10 years ago. Opinions change and things happen. I will say I think after they see or listen to this, they will probably like you even less.
45:53
That's not because you have a good personality, but I think generally, and again, your main shtick is centered around taking big money line favorites and up until now it's been impossible for me to like parse, whether or not these are plus EV. You believe you have an, because I know you say things like don't tail this bet, it's not good. But it also could be within your shtick. I had no idea until we're actually having this conversation. But now that you're going to be giving out big money line favorites and you don't actually think that they're good, it's probably going to cause, I think, even more people to turn against you Fosen.
46:37 - FoaznPoker (Host)
That's all right. Bring them on, bring your pitch forks right here. And I'm in iowa when it's warm out. I'm in arizona when it's cold. Hit my dms, we can go pitchfork for pitchfork. Um, I don't know. They tell something I don't. I don't mind when the five dollar better or whatever is saying shit to me, but it's when someone is supposed to be in the know. And I'm honestly surprised that you think that there's even a world that my bets are good. So I figured like all the sharp people just knew that my bets sucked. And I come from like poker. It's like don't tap the glass. Why are you guys chirping me? I'm good for you. I come from poker. It's like don't tap the glass. Why are you guys chirping me? I'm good for you. I'm on the exchanges. How many whales are on an exchange Like Kelshi? There's a bunch Hashtag ad, but Profit and Novig. The only terrible or the not good people are either in not legal states or they're just odd jam markers yeah, I'll say this just from my perspective.
47:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't know if flop would agree with me, but, like, I respect anyone who's willing to put their money where their mouth is. Um, you know, there's nothing that aggravates me more than than the people who are like on an NFL Sunday they're like oh look, the Sharps lose again. The Sharps can't stop betting on the Jets. It's like well, did you play the Panthers? They're like no, because the Sharp side was the Jets. I was like well, you had an opportunity to make money. You can go bet on Sunday. The limits are pretty high across all these books. You have an opportunity for real wealth.
48:17
So I always respect people who at least put their. You know, if they have opinions and they put their their money where their mouth is, then I'm okay with that. Uh, it's the mouth breathers that don't that really bother me. And they're like you know, I don't show my tickets on. You know I don't show my tickets on Twitter because I mean, there's not very many good reasons for me to ever do that. No matter what, there's going to be someone who sees like a $10,000 bet and they'd be like oh, that's it. I thought you were like a some sort of big, better or whatever, and this, and there's like no positives to doing it. But um, I I can say that I'm even just judging the reactions to the ones you put out.
48:59 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I got chirped for my $5,000 bet. What are we talking about? Not even just the losing side of it. It was like, oh, why so small? Suck my dick. Where's your $6,000 bet slip? Where's your $2 bet slip? That's a good point. I hate the people that are just past posting without a bet slip, which reminds me in round two of the NBA playoffs, I had a disgusting series parlay. It was like Thunder, celtics, oh, flops, cavs, who's the other? Oh, fluff's cast.
49:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's right, I feel like you only brought this up as an opportunity to roast Fluff, by the way.
49:50 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I mean, it came naturally, but I'm doubly glad I brought it up. But I lost 30-something. It was either high 30s or low 40,000s on it and it wasn't close. I close. Lost two of the three legs and the third one was the thunder that went seven games results oriented. It wasn't a good bet, right, but after it lost some guy I'm not going to mention him, but he was in my replies and in other people's replies, showing his tweet of like oh I, I knew this calves bet wasn't good and he posts his bet slips all the time. Where's, where's the pacers bet slip? Oh no, I'm glad your opinion was right. No, no money on this one though. Okay, cool, I don't know why that. I thought of that, but thanks Fluff's Cavs for making sure I'd lose money. Just bringing back bad memories for you, fluff.
50:41 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
It's just so funny. I had the same thoughts too, because when I first posted the Cavs bet, there was some well-respected sharp I don't want to beef with them or anything like that and they were like call me an idiot. And I said, let's cross. They said no. Well then why are you chirping me? Like we can bet, like we can cross, we don't have to post or anything. It's really good. It's a win-win for us here. If you're going to like attack me, put your money where your mouth is, and I support posing, because he actually he always does it.
51:15 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I have to respect that and especially when you know it's someone who actually bets and they chirp you and like I don't, I don't care what you like, your size, but there are certain people like flop. If he's gonna chirp and say it's a bad bet, especially like a regular bet or whatever, he's good, he's probably on the other side. Um, but the people I, I just, I just, I don't have words for the people that chirp about a bet. They are betters betors and they, they don't have a bet on the other side. It's just shut up. Your opinion is worth literal zero to me.
51:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't care yep, I think the only thing that might bother me worse in the space is the ones who don't post their bets until they win. That's another one, See. Like at least you're putting yourself on the line there, where you're like, oh you know, if you saw $300 on the ground you'd pick it up. You know it's whatever, this price minus $3,000. Like there's really no upside in doing that when you think about it it's a huge negative free roll.
52:20 - FoaznPoker (Host)
You win a big favorite. No one gives a shit. You lose. Here they come agreed.
52:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So, like you got to have some serious balls to do that now, granted, until now you are living anonymous, anonymously, it might make it a little bit easier to do that. Uh, now that you're out there, it's. You know, it's a little bit make it a little bit easier to do that. Now that you're out there, it's a little bit different, for sure. But the people who don't post till after the fact, the victory lapping in the space, that's what really, really aggravates me.
52:46 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Yeah, that's why I'm not sure if we've brought up me leaving Twitter. But I always say before the fact if I lose this bet, I'm going to leave Twitter. And I did that with the Warriors Rockets brought up me, uh, leaving twitter. But I always say like before the fact, if I lose this bet, I'm gonna leave twitter. And I did that with the warriors rockets. I left and then came back the next day.
53:02
The people were mad. I'm like well, read the terms of service. I deleted my account. I didn't say I couldn't reactivate it. And then there was one tennis day that I won. It might have been when sinner beat whoever by injury and there were so many nasty comments, I just said next losing day, I'm just going to delete my account. You guys can tweet into the void. I'm not going to be here for it and people don't like that. I don't give a shit. I can do what I want, but I don't know, I guess I don't really have much for that, except just people chirping or just whatever, yep, I get it Big, beautiful bill potentially coming into effect in January.
53:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Is that going to be something that hinders you? Are you considering shutting it down because of that?
53:51 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I am a prediction market and sweepstakes player.
53:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You predict yeah Good for you guys, I am a prediction market and sweepstakes player, you predict.
53:58 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Yeah, good for you guys. But I actually and I mean I guess I'm kind of past posting here I had a bet that I posted to Twitter. Sorry, I had a prediction that I posted to Twitter on Calci. Because you don't bet on Calci, you guys predict.
54:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Just in case you didn't know 100% you could buy and sell. There's two-way markets for everything You're predicting.
54:18 - FoaznPoker (Host)
So I predicted at a price that the bill would get overturned or whatever by the end of the year and my tweet moved the market pretty heavily and I don't know if I committed inside trading or pump and dump. I didn't post Twitter, I cashed out. I bought it at like 35 cents Fucking steamed to 65 cents off of a Fosun tweet for some good liquidity. It's like, oh, I like the price.
54:52 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
If someone Cross with me. I'm on the yes at 65. This is terrible.
55:00 - FoaznPoker (Host)
This is terrible well, I, this is great. I'll dm you my bet slip after this. But uh, I did you. Uh, did you do that?
55:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
it was like right after I posted mine. Is that why?
55:13 - FoaznPoker (Host)
you uh posted your. I I bet it. I don't know when I posted mine. Is that why you posted your?
55:17 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
I don't know when you posted it. I don't even know you posted one. I bet it a couple months ago. Sorry, I predicted it a couple months ago.
55:25 - FoaznPoker (Host)
We'll have to check the dates. Mine was like a $5,000 or $6,000 prediction and cashed out for $500 or $600, maybe more, I'm not really sure.
55:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean, I don't know what defines insider trading nowadays.
55:47 - FoaznPoker (Host)
But it's like the GameStop. Yeah, he likes the stock, I like the price. Yeah right, I didn't. I didn't tell people to go do it right now. Now, if I continuously did it in those small niche markets might be a problem. I would agree as a one-off, you know, maybe instead of dub club. I just uh, uh, what was the word we just used? Uh, predicting, prediction, prediction. Uh, I'm the one who brought the word up. I'm so stupid.
56:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Nothing rhymes with fozen. You can't create a good name out of that.
56:28 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Oh, pumping up my followers is what I was thinking. So, instead of Dub Club. I'm just pumping up Amazing. That's why I'm rich actually.
56:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Do you think, go ahead, plop.
56:43 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
I was just going to say. I don't think people realize that like just because you like a side doesn't mean you're never going to bet the other side like. You can easily like it at 35 cents and not like at a 65 cents like.
56:52 - FoaznPoker (Host)
That's extremely reasonable yeah, I mean it's like the lebron thing, say you were getting it at, say, plus 100, which obviously never happened. You're just liquidating your assets. For that it's I like the price yep.
57:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
This is why, like the whole um, pros versus joes, sharp versus square, bet against the public, discord always drives me crazy. It's because, like, the pro bets plus seven in the NFL game and moves it to six and a half and then they stop betting because they no longer see value at six and a half. But but everyone is like, well, the pros are on this side. It's like, well, no, the pros were on this side at this number. They're no longer on this side at this number.
57:38
And I think people, I think that's like the biggest, biggest, for lack of a better word trap that people fall into betting nowadays. It's like, well, the pros are on this, I got to tail them. It's like, well, you know, you're playing a much worse number. And to Fluff's point, I can't even tell there's been times where, like, an NFL quarterback is out and I've played both sides of the game at different numbers because you see value like somewhere in the middle. Um, yeah, that that's kind of like the big, the big one nowadays. That drives me crazy with the way that average rec looks at the sports betting industry but that's that's because they follow people that provide bad education, like you, fosen.
58:19 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Yeah.
58:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You know, maybe my bets are good to any number. You've got to start putting that in the tweets. By the way, I'm playing this minus 2,000,. Good to minus 20,000. Good to minus 20,000. Have you?
58:37 - FoaznPoker (Host)
ever worked with a partner on anything? No, I guess I wouldn't call them partners. But back when I would bet professionally, I'd get accounts just like do friends, whatever. And that was probably my best asset was just getting accounts. A little tip to anyone listening even if you lose money on the accounts, you should give money to the people giving you the accounts because they have friends. You refer them, give them a referral fee, whatever. Just a little bit of money goes a long ways. So but I've never worked with anyone. Let's say, somehow I got back into professional sports betting I wouldn't even know where to begin. I'd probably just text Fluff, to be honest, like hey, let's build and I don't know You'd put a hashtag in front of that, though.
59:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Hashtag, of course. Hashtag let's build yeah Of course, yeah, Maybe.
59:32 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Oh, I know what my next partner will be actually Me and Dub Club. They'll help me build my brand and it'll be very profitable for me.
59:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You know how excited would you be to show up at like one of those influencer meetups where they pay for like the whole weekend, and you guys are all collaborating on ideas of how you can grow, I just think.
59:56 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Can you imagine the smell in that room?
59:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh, my God, that's not what I was the first thing that came to mind. That's what comes to my mind.
01:00:05 - FoaznPoker (Host)
It's like, oh, it's musty as hell in there and I saw one guy recently with his. They have like a combined $50,000 bed or something. That's another one where I'm too rich to care. There's not a price you could give me to hang out with them for a day.
01:00:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, well, listen, I mean at the end of the day, oh BS.
01:00:29 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
You're telling me, if they offered you a hundred K to show for one day, you'd say no.
01:00:35 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Do I have to converse with?
01:00:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
them. You got to be part of the entire day, like you guys are. You have to go, you have to sit through the meetings of how you're going to grow, your following and all that stuff.
01:00:49 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I'd probably do it for $100,000. I definitely don't do it for $10,000. I don't do it for $20,000. $100,000 is a good deal.
01:00:55 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
No, but your point is your price is big enough that they would never offer it to you. Yeah, here's your small little win, congrats played the clip of flopping down five.
01:01:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Thank you, I had to get something on you. Well, listen, everyone has a. Everyone has a price. The million dollar man did ted dibiasi used to say that everyone's got their price. Look at flop. Flop just took the bag, got out of here real quick. Everyone's got a price, right, that's it fluff do you have a price for dub club?
01:01:22 - FoaznPoker (Host)
does that exist? That you'd uh start a dub club?
01:01:25 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
to open a dub club yeah, to be the.
01:01:29 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I mean yeah, I'm not gonna lie.
01:01:30 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
I mean, if they offered me like 10 million, 15 million dollars to open a dub club, yes, I would. I would open a dub club, um, but like the interest, like I would never get get to that number and the only reason it would be is if, like I get at 10 to 15 million, you could now not bet yourself and actually deliver value to people.
01:01:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It was like before like you could, you couldn't Exactly.
01:01:56
I think that's a good point. By flop, like, you would have to get a monetary amount that makes sense, where you're no longer influencing the market yourself, so that you can actually treat the pick sales like it's a real betting portfolio. So the number has to be high enough to take you completely off of the betting side of things. I think, because a lot of these guys who just give out scraps or or, as the market's steaming, you know, one second after release, it's not helping anyone.
01:02:27 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I don't think a number exists for me, just because I couldn't provide value and I'm totally fine, by the way, with people, with pick sellers that have legitimate value. You've got your promo Discord. You have your Discord with your bots. You have originators that are good, but for me I mean, go bet on LeBron 10 points.
01:02:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I was going to say, what your picks package looks like is probably not what the average person is looking to pay for. Today we're putting 40, 40 of our bankroll on ram's money line.
01:03:02 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Uh minus one in 2000, like you know I guarantee, though I could have I could make a decent amount with uh dub club discord thing. I've had lots of dms asking for my discord and then if you want to get into like me with bad picks, being a dub club seller, well, you're already going to be. That's kind of shady to begin with, right, just do some shady marketing at that point, right, I go promise big wins. Can't really sleep at night, but hey, I made 20k this month off. You guys don't have fun, yeah.
01:03:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, and then if you go down, you can just give everyone the best stuff afterwards. Yeah, that's just the way to do it. I hope this doesn't come across as offending you in any way, but I could actually see you being like a really good tout you have the characteristics of being a really no, I wasn't going to compare you to other people.
01:03:57
I thought we had fed you market yourself like fairly well. It's hard to grow Twitter followings now from from nothing. Uh you're, you're a good marketer. That's where I think I personally suck. I don't have it within me to like promote this. Yeah, I can't do your shtick, but I think you do it really well.
01:04:15 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Uh, speaking of promoting, I think and this is just uh nice criticism and you guys, I actually noticed it you guys had a video post earlier. You guys, when you talk about other cappers, like specifically me, because you guys know I'll interact with it if knish or peanut better, uh, you guys talk about me in your videos, your circles off twitter, you guys should clip that and tweet it and at me and then or other people, um, because it'll be free engagement, because me I'm narcissistic, my whole there's fozen. Let's talk about me, I'm awesome, I'll quote, tweet it and so, yeah, I think. So I really I don't really watch too often, but I like the friday episodes, especially when I know I'm going to be in it. So I say, on like tuesdays, after people are have already seen it, maybe release some of those old clips, because I there was even. I don't know if we're allowed to talk about competing, uh the floor is yours.
01:05:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Talk about whatever you want, so Flop and.
01:05:18 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Henry have their thing. Yep, and that's a really nerdy podcast, right Flop, am I wrong? Like it's nerdy, oh, extremely nerdy. And there was a video that Novig tweeted out that I thought was funny and it made me watch, and they do pretty good about tweeting out their videos and maybe I just don't recognize it because maybe you guys don't come up on my feed as much. Yeah, but I think you guys maybe want to start doing that more.
01:05:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, no, so it's a really good point. So we do tweet out clips of the show. The problem is that circle back, inherently the way that the show is structured. There's not a lot of positive messages throughout the show. It's mostly here are bad tweets. This is why they're stupid. Mostly that there are some more nuanced conversations, for sure, that are centered around like just a big topic, big beautiful bill being an example, whatever. But you kind of, you kind of, at least for me, I have a real problem with grabbing the clip, like the five minutes of roasting a certain person, and then tagging them on twitter and being like we, you know, I, I understand that it's an, it's an avenue for growth, but it's it also can look like that makes sense. Yeah, I can't wait a second this is complete bs.
01:06:46 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
What it is is rob is just scared of a lawsuit, that's all it is. Every episode, rob's gonna come in and be like hey guys, we can't say these things because we could get sued, and I'm scared.
01:06:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's the real reason so we do have guidelines for everyone on the show that were written by our legal team in terms of what can and can't be said. The big thing is to not present something as a fact Um, if it's not, if it's just an opinion and to be make it very clear that it's just an opinion. We have been, there's been, legal action threatened against us many times. I don't really care, that has nothing to do with it. Flop, like, if anything, like imagine one of these guys trying to sue us in like the most recent one was, uh, along the lines of, if you're going to, if you're going to say my record from this year, you also have to include the record from the past five years, right, which is the most absurd thing. And it's like if you don't do that, you're going to be hearing from our legal team, whatever, as if, like someone who ever talked about you know, russell Wilson as a quarterback has to go back and be like. We should also point out that he had these seasons in Seattle where he threw for X amount of touchdowns. It's the dumbest thing ever, but this is what happens when you get into a show that inherently is talking about other people in the space. But I don't care. I mean, candidly, that would be pretty good for us If someone wanted to go out of their way to sue us.
01:08:17
They would just be wasting money for one. I mean, what you have to prove for libel is insane. They'd have to open up the books, by the way, as well, to like what it, how this affected their livelihood in any way as well. So they have to release financial statements, stuff like that, which I don't know who wants to go down that path in the space. But it would also just be great for the hammer. It would be huge PR, like I would cover that. I would be sending cameras to the courthouse. I would be like this would be ideal. So I don't think anyone really wants to go down that path. I mean, I think that's nuts.
01:08:54 - FoaznPoker (Host)
All right, I think, after hearing that, we need you guys to start presenting things as facts and adding these uh big twitter accounts, um, that are selling their dub clubs, telling them how stupid they are, and let's get a lawsuit going. You know here, by the way, anything you hear from fozen is today. It was presented as a fact and if you'd like to sue me, you can contact circles off hq so you?
01:09:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I actually now have to state that what fozen has said um is does not reflect the opinions of myself or the hammer betting network and fozen also has to state what do you guys?
01:09:36 - FoaznPoker (Host)
they're sending me something, what? Okay, I was joking, they didn't send me that. But if you guys couldn't realize that was a joke, you probably shouldn't be on twitter, probably shouldn't be watching the show. Um, go pick up painting.
01:09:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think that'd be a good thing for you guys to do this whole like influencer culture now, and all these partnerships that are happening with books, um, pick companies, you know, dub clubs, winnables or whatever. Do you blame people for doing these things?
01:10:08 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Absolutely not. You put me as 21 back when I was basically broke. I mean, this is when I'm doing good and I have this account right now. Woo, you'd see me on dub club Be talking about my big wins, wouldn't mention my losses a single time.
01:10:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep, you rent your Ferrari for a day. Stand up film like 17 videos in different clothes so that you can release them over the course of a month.
01:10:34 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Beautiful, absolutely $29.99 a month, less than a dollar a day. Let's get rich. $29.99 a month, less than a dollar a day, let's get rich.
01:10:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I know that's the fundamental problem I have with the space nowadays, too. It's really hard to blame a lot of the influencers slash creators. I actually think a lot of them don't even really realize the potential harm that they're causing. I mean, sports betting is very ego-driven, and I think a lot of these people actually think that they're going to win and they don't really know that they're they're not going to. It's more so the larger conglomerates that are reaching out to everyone in Twitter DMS say hey, been following your picks, you're on a hot run. You can make some money selling them over here. That seems pretty, I mean. I understand it's the business model, but that's where I think we're getting into some ethical boundaries that have been crossed.
01:11:26 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
We've got this guy online. He thinks he's a winner too. I mean, look at that ego. I mean it's insane.
01:11:32 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Speaking, though, of these guys, I have the biggest sweat ever tonight. I have $0 on the line. I need this ladder challenge to fucking lose. He's got a minus 300 left. It's calling our shot. He seems like a nice guy he honestly does but he's on day 10 of his ladder challenge 10 to 10,000. He started day 10 with Sunday. It's finishing up today. He's got minus 300 left on Detroit tonight, with two players Need that to lose so bad, just for my own pleasure of watching that burn. So I can quote tweet it saying 0-1, minus 10.
01:12:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I love that. Nothing unites the sharper side of gambling Twitter more than rooting against ladder challenges like the nut low is the ladder challenge. There's nothing that triggers me more than the. All we have to do is win 50 straight bets at like minus 500 or more and we're all going to be millionaires and he's about to fucking do it too.
01:12:37 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I mean, he'll probably move to one in 2000, so he'll only be down 10 grand now yeah, I mean.
01:12:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
This ladder challenge loses. What's the logical next step?
01:12:47 - FoaznPoker (Host)
no, another ladder challenge next month and even if it wins, like realistically I think he's down on him. Yeah so, but I honestly do think he's like he seems like a genuine nice guy and maybe that's how he gets you.
01:13:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Who was it that's doing this?
01:13:02 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Colleen our shot. Yeah, he's got like 300,000 followers, yeah.
01:13:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think we might have done something with that account on Circleback before Rings a bell. Wouldn't surprise me, yeah, wouldn't surprise me at all. What's the end goal for you now? You're just on Twitter betting. You seem to be a fairly young guy. You're wealthy through crypto.
01:13:29 - FoaznPoker (Host)
I don't have an end goal. Really, if I'm just doing this, in a couple years, something went wrong with my life. This has been a good. I started early last December. This has been a good. I started early last December. This has been a good 11 months. I don't know. I just. It's sometimes embarrassing when I tell my friends about my Twitter account and I really enjoy it, but I can't just be posting bets to Twitter. I don't know. I don't have an angle I to Twitter and I don't know I don't have an end goal. I never thought it would get this big. I don't know why people follow me For the foes and poker fans out there. I appreciate you, but I wouldn't follow me Flop only. Oh, I scammed a follow out of Flop. By the way, he only followed me because there was one day that I said I was betting the under on LeBron James 10 points and I posted the slip for it, and he responded with elf and green beans like oh, this is your king.
01:14:34
I guess he is price sensitive. And an hour later I bet way more on Hiller. And in between that, flutt followed me Because he interacted with me before. Between that, flip followed me, so because he had like interacted with me before, that never followed me. So just, I'm always two steps ahead of flip.
01:14:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I will say I mean flop was for months, he's telling. He was telling me he's like you got to get this guy fozen on. You got to get. So even though he didn't follow you, you can be sure that he was stalking you and looking at your twitter timeline every day honestly, I've been waiting for you guys to.
01:15:05
I can't believe I wasn't on the friday edition ever you know what I so I tend to bring people into the network or the channel by first doing an interview with them. There's very few people that I didn't flop. I interviewed you before we brought you in. Yeah, yeah, I you porter. I guess storm would be the only guy, but we've done china before isaac, so maybe this is the the jumping off point here. Fozen, where you can, I mean you and knish on fridays, oh man that'd be electric and peanut better.
01:15:41 - FoaznPoker (Host)
That'd be so much better than flop, like five times better. But I and I'll throw my name in the hat I would definitely be down to do that, but I just can't believe it hadn't come, because the very first episode, by the way, circle back to this you guys talked about the LeBron 10 bet. You talked about your bet with Brett? Where was the Fosun? You guys didn't talk about Fosun. That's why I tuned into the episode to see me getting talked about.
01:16:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I was actually about to blame my producer, jacob, here, who now hosts, but I was hosting at that time, for sure.
01:16:19 - FoaznPoker (Host)
That was a miss. That was tough, gonna be honest, that was bad.
01:16:23 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
you gotta have frozen I'll be honest, it seems like your ego is very large. I'm not sure we want to be giving you the platform to like to make it get even bigger I'm, uh, so this is a fosions.
01:16:36 - FoaznPoker (Host)
Oh, I keep saying fosion, it's a phosens shtick. Um, I'm very mellow and like kind of quiet in real life, but you put me in front of flop, you put me in front of knish.
01:16:48 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Things are probably just gonna happen so, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about that. I mean, we we unfortunately are in the situation now where we do have to seek a new member because flopop abandoned us to take the bag at Novig. So, yep, I mean we'll put an offer out there.
01:17:06 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
I basically use my cloud from circle back to leverage this job. It's the only reason why I got it. That's it, it's true.
01:17:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's what they're saying behind the scenes, folks, and you don't know this, but it's actually. He's not joking. People are accusing of this behind the scenes, that he's used this channel, this network, so that he can just he's a losing better. I mean, you know that because you've, you've went up against him and now he's unfortunately, he's got him.
01:17:30 - FoaznPoker (Host)
He's gonna make some money, he's he's done all this through uh clout and leeching on others. He was leeching on me with his uh betting the under on nine and a half points. That was his. It was an investment in himself. I get it now. Maybe you're not that stupid. Maybe you wouldn't actually bet under nine and a half points on LeBron James.
01:17:53 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
And Speck Element does wonders.
01:17:55 - FoaznPoker (Host)
This is true. You got those nine cent. Same game, parlaylay guys, I guess. Good job. Nine cents a night, get some twitter followers. But I, I could never do it every week, but like once every couple months. Put me in there. Or if you, if I was to do it full time, I'd need to make more than whatever flop was making well, that'll be easy.
01:18:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Don't worry about that.
01:18:25
Just one set is all you need not, not exactly, but yes, uh, that'll, that'll be easy. Um, all right, fozen, it's great talking to you. Um, yeah, I didn't really know what I was getting into today and this could have went in many different directions. I'm kind of glad it went in the direction that it did Because, listen, at the end of the day, you are who you are and you've carved out a nice spot for yourself in the space. We do have a tradition on this show that we end off with guests. We asked them to give us their plus EV and minus EV moves of the week. Flop did this when he was a guest before. I recall the answers not being good, but that's not a surprise to anyone. But I'll give the floor to you, fozen, now. Plus EV, minus EV could be sports betting related, could be life related, whatever you want.
01:19:18 - FoaznPoker (Host)
But let the audience hear what you got, plus EV move of the week, something I've really been trying to do Make sure you get outside, get your steps in and eat right, minus EV move of the week. Hmm, following Flup, no Light on Twitter.
01:19:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
If there was a prediction market on Flop to be in the minus EV, I would have laid whatever price. It was 100% coming. There was no doubt about it. There was no doubt about it.
01:19:50 - FoaznPoker (Host)
But hey, I really enjoyed being on. This was a lot of fun. Rob, this is the first time we've ever talked Yep Flop. You know this is good seeing you. I guess People behind the scenes you as well. Yeah, the people behind the scenes. Thanks for setting this up. You guys will be hearing from my team about my contract offer.
01:20:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right, but I did have a lot of fun.
01:20:11 - FoaznPoker (Host)
This was a good time.
01:20:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right People. Make sure you follow Fozen on Twitter at FozenPoker. We'll actually drop his Twitter down in the description below. We at Fosen Poker We'll actually drop his Twitter down in the description below. We'll also drop Flop's. We'll be nice to him as well if you want to follow Flop on Twitter. He is a traitor to our team.
01:20:24 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
but you know what you can't do it this one, because that would be against Fosen. You can't drop it this time.
01:20:30 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Why not you just put two links in the Twitter in the description?
01:20:36 - Chris Dierkes (Host)
You know how many links we have in the description already you know what it's.
01:20:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You know what it's true. We can't disrespect fozen by putting a flop twitter link in the description. We will not do that, jacob. Make a note of that. No flop in the in the description below. Um, appreciate everyone who tuned in and watched today. If you did enjoy the show, smash that like button down below if you're listening in audio form. Please rate and review five stars. Leave some comments for us as well what you liked about this, what you didn't like about this, and general questions for fozen. I mean, we plan to have them on again in the future. Maybe we'll do a part two of this and get through some questions as well. Appreciate everyone out there. Thanks for listening to circles off. We'll see you next time. Peace out.
