00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. 

00:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions it's circle back, part of the circles off brand, part of the hammer betting network and presented by underdog. This is the show where we review the week that was in gambling twitter. I would say one of two shows, because we now have a friday edition. Well, but this is the Tuesday crew. It's myself, rob Pizzola, next to Kirk Evans, on my left, jeff Feinberg, the sophisticated square as he's dubbed himself, and Jacob, the giant Grimania, who you might see hosting on the Friday show. Good week, boys. 

01:18 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I thought Friday was great. 

01:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Friday was great. Yeah, I enjoyed that show. Yeah. 

01:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm a little bit biased. 

01:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm kind of like really hoping for it to go well because it's like an addition to our brand. 

01:28 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm actually shocked. I watched that show. I'm like Kanisha's going to do something in the first five minutes that we have to like respond to, but I'm out of here. He didn't do that. 

01:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean, listen, the beauty of that shows it's not live. So Jacob can edit it in post-production, which I imagine at some point over time he may have to. He may have to, but it was good. I wanted it to be pretty authentic, with the lead-off of how Knish used to roast Nadeau online and they had a good laugh over that, which I thought was pretty fun. So you can check that out. That's the Friday edition of Circle Back, but this is the A-team right here. Let's not get it confused. We're going to get into a bunch of topics today. Jacob, go ahead, lead it off here for us. 

02:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah. So the first one here. A big topic that's going around right now obviously March Madness taking shape, gambling Twitter obviously going to be heavily involved in that, and the story from March Madness this year has been just the lack of upsets overall, has been just the lack of upsets overall. So Matt Peralt sparked a debate after tweeting about the lack of Cinderella stories this year showcasing the matchups here. The Elite Eight is one versus two, one versus two, one versus two and one versus three, asking if people like this, if this is what fans really want. 

02:41
There was an overwhelming level of pushback overall. Most fans argued that seeing the best teams battle off the tournament makes it better, where some will say they want to see those stories and those upsets. And then we had Trav here at HeHateMe2 underscore zero, who's pretty popular amongst gambling Twitter says. I assume all these types of people only watch undercards on pay-per-view and turn it off before the main event. What's more fun than two season titans colliding watching it, one dog walk at eight who had a couple weekends of positive variance. So a lot of differing opinions. But what do you guys think on this? 

03:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
it's all great, like upsets are fun, but when this happens, this is also good and like some years, it's most years. It is the upsets. I like this. I was one of the weirdos that really liked rob when we worked together the bcs computer system yeah one verse one with no playoff, is awesome in all these playoff formats now. 

03:39
The playoffs themselves are awesome, so I'm going to like double talk here for a sec. But we love watching the playoffs unfold. But at the beginning of a playoff, if you're like we could just get one versus one in the finals, we'd be like that's going to be an awesome finals Right, and we so rarely get it because sports is awesome. But even in golf, when it's like Scheffler versus a no-name, that's great. When it's two superstars going head-to-toe, that's great. Like that's just the beauty of fucking sport. 

04:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I would say this tournament like it's not that the good teams have won, that's been the problem. It's just been kind of like a lot of blowouts. I think that's been the bigger problem. I think this comparison doesn't really make any sense of people watching the undercard. I think this comparison doesn't really make any sense of people watching the undercard, because this kind of would imply like for this comparison to make sense, the undercard would have to like, then like the winners of the undercard would then have to be fighting on the main card, which doesn't make sense. But I agree with you Like this Final Four is going to be awesome to watch and I think people like to pretend that they like parody, but always the most watched stuff is like Warriors, cavs, when it's like the absolute titans and the stories we know and the teams that people want to watch. So I agree, I think it's going to be sick. But this tournament has had a bit of a lack of buzz. 

04:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've been pretty public about this before. But in a game where I don't have any money on the line or anything like that, I think the average person tends to root for the underdog, especially in the live event. Like you notice, when underdogs go on a run at like a neutral site, the fans are going nuts, it's. I think there's a natural human tendency to root for the underdog. But then you get to the later stages of the tournament where you have, like a team in the final four, the lead eight. That's like a double digit underdog and that's not to say that they they can't win, but probabilistically speaking there's there's much better chance you're not going to watch an entertaining game at that point. That's why I've personally always rooted for the favorites, especially in a format like march madness, like it's nice to see yeah, saint peters maybe win a game in the first round, but having them shoot like 78 from three over three games and fluke their way into a elite eight or final four. I'm just using a random school, by the way that that like to me, I want to see the best matchups in sports. I like to see the best matchups. 

05:55
The challenge with a march madness tournament, nfl, it's one and done right typically over like nba, nhl baseball. When you get into best of seven it's it's harder for the underdog to move on. You tend to see the better teams go on March Madness. That's kind of what makes the allure of the tournament a little bit more. It's like anybody can make a deep run. But I'm personally pretty excited about the final four for this year. I'd much rather see that like number one seeds, close games, than having a team there that, frankly, the game might be a blowout within 10 minutes. 

06:30 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You have four teams that all think they can win the damn thing, and sure the other teams make it and they might think they can win the damn thing and it's healthy for them to think they can win it, but we know they can't, even when they're in the Final Four. This is incredible and they've got to just spin it for how great it actually fucking is. 

06:47 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
The only spot I somewhat disagree with you guys here is that I agree in every other sport, but March Madness is kind of the most memorable parts, typically around one and two, versus the final four, which is different than any other sport. 

07:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, give me that 12 over five upset like that five point dog, but don't give me. Give me that that 12 over 5 upset like that five point dog, but like don't. 

07:07 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Don't give me the deep run into the tournament well, that's why I don't care about sister gene and whatever like yeah, but that's why trav's tweet is kind of ridiculous to your point as well, but also in the sense that no, because to some people the main event of march madness is the first fucking th and Friday. Yes, exactly. So those two days they didn't deliver. Like looking back on it, if you hit live bets, I know you're in a different mindset. 

07:31
But those days from like a casual or generic, they didn't deliver. There was just, we had a great buzzer beater with, I think, tech or Maryland yeah, maryland. But yeah, there's just been like a few or less like great defining moments in this tournament, but this final four could be a defining moment. And all this like nonsense about the tournament. Let's wait to see what happens, like let's have this happen again before we freak out that this is the new fucking normal. 

08:03 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Completely agree. Like it's happened one fucking time Once in a row was one fucking row. 

08:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Twice in a row was called back-to-back Three is a streak, so let's like. 

08:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, for most times one could be a streak I fucking One and no sleep, I completely One and no last one. 

08:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's honestly what I wish was talked about on this segment as well. That to me, how you know someone is a charlatan on gambling twitter is when they're like the nil money has ruined march madness. It's like if you simulate thousands of march madnesses, especially where the one seeds this year were like so much better ranked going into the tournament than normal. There are going to be times when there's just a lot of chalk, like I don't know why people have to like get the most grand conclusions of one tournament, like it's one tournament sometimes. This is gonna happen. I don't know that. 

08:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is like a great, like great, I think to matt's. No, sorry, I'm not saying this. 

08:57 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm saying I've seen a lot of I've seen a lot of people say, like the tournament is ruined, now, yeah, it's all gonna be chalk, which is just not true. That that, to me, is like the prevailing theme of twitter that I've seen. 

09:08 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, let's just say there'll be no upsets in any fucking. 

09:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's recency bias to jeff's point. 

09:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's like it's something happens one year and everyone's losing their mind the amount of like five and a half point four to like six point favorites, just like one, consistently was like a big outlier in this tournament. There's almost no way it can continue. That being said, in fairness, we all should have been able to see this coming. Credit Alan Nostradamus, boston, he knew it. The Jews, the head coaches. If you say you couldn't see it coming, he saw it coming and we're here baby, I don't know how we, if you saw his tweet. 

09:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't know how you don't have the right Final Four it's true. 

09:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will say this just from a like a non-betting type of perspective. There is a very big downside to all these one seeds going on and to having Chalk win the entire tournament. And on a personal level, it's for me having every single one of my friends send me their pictures of their bracket, talking about how great they are, like they just developed the cure for cancer, it's like dude, all the favorites won. You're in an eight-person pool. You should have picked all the favorites. Of course you're doing well. 

10:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That to me, but isn't that a little bit triggering? Hold on, though, like it's. It's tiebreaker city. It's like over under total score, total points. 

10:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That final game is deciding your thing, or some time, but they entered it on, like on espn, where it shows what percentile you're in for your bracket. 

10:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm like well, of course, if you pick the chalk every single time, you're gonna be in a pretty high percentile I'm sorry if you're, if your friends are sending you what percentile they are in in the espn bracket, unless it's like they're gonna finish first. 

10:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You should find new friends on yeah, I mean, I've been looking for new friends for a while, but yeah, that's, that's part who cares if you're in the 97th percentile of a? Tournament that gives you no reward. But you know what, as I think about it now, there'd be previous years where, like a 13 upsets a four in the first round and they happen to pick it. I'm going to hear about it Like it doesn't matter. I think brackets truly bring out the worst in people. 

11:18 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I did. I mean, I haven't done a bracket in actual years, but for it in actual years, yeah. But I, for the first time ever, I did. Uh, joe ostrosky's yep, survivor the high stakes one. Joe ostrosky from bet sweats, yeah, I lost on saturday night with texas tech and that was like my move, I didn't and they were up 10 with like three minutes. It was incredible sequence to watch oh, yeah, but I like, I felt like it. 

11:45
I was just like dead af like, not like dead, like, it's just like the feeling, the exhilaration, the high and low was incredible. 

11:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Was that against florida where they just couldn't hit a free throw. 

11:54 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, they were up 10 and they missed the one and one and the two dudes combined to hit like four straight threes. Yeah, it was. It was truly great tv, but I was on the wrong. 

12:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I caught just the wrong end of it. I saw 90 run in like a minute and 11 seconds. Yeah, just absurd. 

12:11 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But that would have busted it open now with only the ones. It's just gonna be a tiebreaker finish. Yeah, and I was playing for you know my own path. 

12:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean I, I would have. I mostly enter big pools. If I ever do brackets, I would have got smoked this year because I'll. I'm not going to take four. One seeds in like a pool with hundreds of thousands of people, or even like a high roller pool with like a thousand people or something like that. 

12:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's not going to happen, but I got two things on this before we move on. Well, first of all, as soon as I see people complain about like all favorites winning, it reminds me of two years ago, the college football national championship, where TCU had a really fun run and then they get to the natty, and then they get smoked 65-7. 

12:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I literally went to the golf simulator after the first quarter of the national championship football. 

12:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, it's great, like you guys said early in the tournament. It's great when there's upsets, but at this point I think this is the best basketball second of all. I I I had some people ask me like, or or just say to me like oh, great for the books, all the favorites want win. Uh, would you guys say that a sports book would perform better or worse when something like this happens, or does it like not really matter it? 

13:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it. It depends on the event. There's definitely tons of parlays tied to favorites regularly, especially for this type of tournament. 

13:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Those seeds bring out the parlays. People just see the seeding and so a lot of chalk monkey. Even my buddy, who's scaled down is betting huge, doesn't even bet anymore. 

13:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's like the one year I would have made a fucking fortune classic, and then he'll be betting next year and it'll be a tournament of underdogs next. That's just the way betting works. 

13:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
A lot of people have made those uh underdog bets. Hundred dollars every underdog, I think typically books are cheering for underdogs. 

14:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't know about specifically march madness, but like in um jason robbins like call to investors. He specifically mentioned how, like this year, the nfl favorites won at like a disproportionate rate and they actually hurt their bottom line yeah, I mean again, it's just the favorite parlays I mean that they have teasers and everything yeah, like think about like the average better um the nfl is. 

14:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They don't think probabilistically right, they just look at they're gonna win like they're gonna win. They speak in absolutes. 

14:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There's very rarely you're gonna get someone who's just gonna be like parling a bunch of underdogs, unless it's gonna be to to win their money back usually and it could just be my perception, but looking back on it like last n season, it felt like there was like a clear delineation in like good and bad teams and there were more bad teams than I feel like there had been in a while. 

14:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't have the numbers up in front of me, it's hard to say. I think every year towards the end of the year there's some really bad teams. 

15:02 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Injuries? Yeah, it just happens. 

15:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Quarterback, injuries, all sorts of stuff can play, or you just have like a larger sample and you just realize like this team actually fucking sucks, and we didn't realize that they sucked earlier in the year. So it definitely happens. I'll get you back to Circleback in just a second, but first let me tell you about our sponsor, underdog, one of the smoothest platforms out there for player pick'em. As someone who spent three years as a product manager for the score, I care a lot about recommending platforms that I truly believe in. From a product perspective, underdog's pick'em is simple, fast and easy to use. No dealing with complicated odds. Just pick whether a player will go higher or lower than their projection and you build your entry. And with clean design and zero clutter, the experience is seamless from start to finish. The best part you control the risk and reward. You can play it safe with a two-leg entry or you can go for a big multiplier by stacking up to five picks. The choice is entirely yours, and right now Underdog is offering Circles Off listeners an exclusive deal. When you sign up using promo code CIRCLES, they'll match your first deposit up to a thousand bucks. That's free bonus money for you to start playing with If you want a top tier pick'em experience, make sure you check out. Underdog Link is in the description below. Use code CIRCLES Not a ton of Spaces talk going to happen on this show this week. 

16:27
There was an Elf Spaces on Sunday night. I tuned in for about five minutes and it was a rough one for me personally. For me personally. I know some other people who did enjoy it. But there are some competitor spaces going on right now. We've talked about Omar's space before. There's Bling Bling now, but a little bit of controversy in the spaces world. 

16:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Jacob yeah, I don't know. Competitor is a pretty strong word. It's like it's kind of like a one-way street, but anyways, people who do also make spaces content on twitter, one of which is omar at penny pit victim here brought up a tweet from elf from 2024, january 2024. So recently on this show we covered this segment where elf did the push-ups bet if you could do. What was it? 50 push-ups in a minute from 2024, january 2024. So recently on this show we covered this segment where Elf did the push-ups bet If he could do. What was it? 50 push-ups in a minute. There was sports books taking actions like exchange books, like BetOnline was taking action on it, and he did it easily. 

17:20
And Omar decides to dig in and surface up this tweet from early 2024, which is Elf promoting his live stream that he was doing on kick and in the promo he was doing clapping pushups, like showcasing. He's very clearly capable of doing pushups. And Omar tweeted calculated, premeditated. Who is behind it? All Hashtag? We have everything Saying, you know, seeing he found these amazing receipts that it was, I don't know, rigged that Elf was able to do the pushups and then Boomer Bets said I really lost money on this. I'm an idiot and it's been influencer in a little bit of like, in a joking tone. 

17:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I would say Definitely joking. 

18:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Hashtag void Elf pushups. So what do we think guys? Did Omar uncover the truth here, or what? 

18:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I can't believe like anyone could have actually bet no on it well, okay, this is a really hard topic for me to discuss because there's so much personal bias that is involved here what does? 

18:24 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
does that mean? 

18:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I cannot stand Omar. 

18:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Oh. Like so he saw his opportunity to get a sliver of relevancy and decided to try and get some people to bite, and we bit. 

18:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I like the implication here that, like Elf had never Elf for this to be a legitimate market, elf could have never done a push-up before. 

18:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, I think A no. You can't refund it. Credit to Elf and him and his buddies. They pulled off a pretty big coup, my point being there's money to be made in these spaces. You could start a good space, you could trick a whole audience into a thing and you could win a quick 50K. Do it. 

19:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If you actually have talent. 

19:08 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
My point being, no, but his friends did, my point being my point being is that it's not that he we like no one ever thought elf hadn't done a push-up before. In the lead up to it, he was like him and he was having conversations aloud in the space. It's like I don't know if I could do it, guys 50 in a minute. 

19:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is a lot. 

19:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He was like working it the other way. So calculated, premeditated, probably correct, but also like they did it. They got books to post it. They got people dumb enough on the internet to bet against a vain kid saying he could do some physical challenge when all he's wanted to do for three months is take his shirt off on camera for you. So like that's it. And he pulled it off. So credit to him, but it was calculated and premeditated. It doesn't mean anything should be refunded. 

20:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, no. But there's like a couple arguments because, first off, nba green beans. Brett feinsod is a good friend of elf and he made a lot of money off of it at profit. 

20:14
I believe he seeded the market with like I'm pretty sure but it was elf's words that fed into the other side of the market yes, but but it I I actually do have like a little bit of a problem with your one of your best friends, kind of knowing what the outcome is going to be and making a lot of it off of that. But if you're going to go after Elf for doing that, like Omar's original post of, like the Elf did these pushups before that's public, that, like anyone could have found that and that, based off of that information, it's no different than anyone could have found that. And bet, based off of that information, it's no different than anyone could have went into the space and heard NBA Green Bean say I'm betting on Elf because I know he can do these pushups. 

20:56 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Sorry. 

20:58 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, just him. Brett betting on Elf was very known that was a tell. Yes. 

21:03
Exactly and like all this stuff like if you are betting against Elf, your bet is obviously he thinks he can do it. No one does this challenge thinking you're betting. I think this kid's overconfident. 50 in a minute's a lot. I don't think he can do it. You're not like he's a human being. He has his own body. Obviously he's worked out before. He knows that he thinks he can do it. He would never have done this challenge if he didn't think he could do it 100. 

21:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And this isn't even like me saying a great three point shooter saying I can hit x, because there's way more variance in that than yeah, than this exactly. 

21:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is no variance? 

21:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
yeah, very little, very little. 

21:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a non-story dude, a sweepstakes book and an offshore book, posted some random stuff on a push-ups bet. 

21:56 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Listen, they pulled one over and it's scummy. I don't want to say scummy, but they just did it and suck it up. If you were dumb enough to bet the under, I guess. 

22:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Let me add to the story here. So so elf didn't really profit off of doing this from, like a betting standpoint. Uh, at real fats, who's a member of sports family sports gambling hall of fame, board of directors, defended elf, saying essentially like he, if he really wanted to rig it and like make a ton of money, he could have done it. But he ended up arbing this, which is very on brand. Elf originally made a name for himself with those kick streams by giving away his edge for arbing stuff live. 

22:36
So in the end he profited either $5.70 or $4.50. So it wasn't some big thing for Elf to swindle it so that he'd win. He didn't really profit off. Now, granted, you guys said his friends did, but they know him and know he can do it. That was obviously the tell. 

22:54 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't even know that it's unethical. Like I almost agree with Fats. It might calculated, premeditated, but that doesn't mean it was unethical. Like all things can be true. 

23:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You know what you're betting into. With a bullshit market like this, the only way it becomes sketchy and weird is if the video is doctored or something, or he intentionally doesn't do it Exactly. If he bet a lot on himself to not do it and he could have done it and just didn't. Then it's like whoa, this is fucking weird, but you're betting on him to not do something. 

23:30
Obviously he's trying to do it. If he does it, even if elf had a million dollars on the yes, I wouldn't think that's weird you are betting on him being overconfident. That's really the only bet on the reality is this. 

23:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This. I know we're covering it. This is a total non-story coming from someone who treats hating on the elf spaces like it's oxygen. Basically, like the guy he cannot I'm speaking about Omar right now. He cannot, cannot stand that elf spaces draw viewership Like. This is a guy who's been doing Spaces on Twitter for two. I could literally live stream a fucking Spaces right now of me taking a shit and reading a newspaper out loud and I will get more viewership than the Omar Spaces. Like that would actually happen. 

24:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Let's test it. 

24:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I guarantee it would. 

24:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Like this is what we're talking Talking shit. 

24:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's finally time to release talking shit you don't understand, like and to me, this is where Did you just come up with that name? 

24:29 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, no no, talking shit is like the gem of this operation. But that's the secret. 

24:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, but didn't we have an idea? 

24:35 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
for a bathroom. Was it G-Stack's idea? Yeah, but we were all going to sit in stalls St. We're sitting on toilets and we're separated by wall, but we're doing this show. We're just talking shit. 

24:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It was G-Sack's idea. It was called Shooting the Shit. 

24:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's what it was called Shooting the Shit. Oh, Shooting the. 

24:53 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Shit, I think this show would be really weird if we were sitting on toilets. 

24:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, in hindsight it would probably be a little bit weird and we couldn't look at each other. 

25:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
No, we wouldn't it. I 100% agree with that. 

25:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But when I say I'm biased, right, that's the weirdest idea I've ever heard. 

25:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's amazing, I can't believe you never heard of this, it's this show. 

25:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's this show. But we build a fake studio. It's not like we're going to do it in the regular bathroom here. 

25:18 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, it's like a mock toilet. 

25:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's a mock toilet. Yeah, it's a set. 

25:23 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's a stall. 

25:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's a camera right on your face from the door. You don't think that would have worked. 

25:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think it would be much worse than this show. 

25:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Very possible we might have to try it. I think it would be this show, but with a really weird angle of us sitting on toilets no hold on though, but you would have to have. 

25:41 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Even if it was staged, you'd have to set up like a random person walking in Using the urinal, washing their hands, 100% into background noise, but how many times the background noise like flushing yeah, flushing, every now and then. 

25:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Somebody washing their hands. You know, I think that would turn a lot of people off when they clicked on the link originally. 

26:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, you know what? People don't know this because this is pre-recorded. But we stop the show two or three times every single time so someone could leave to take a piss because we're drinking coffee and red bull non-stop in here. That would save us a lot of time. That would save us a lot of time, for sure. But this, this whole thing, like I'm, I'm gonna just share a personal story here. 

26:18
I'm, I, I've, I've disliked omar for a long time now because he constantly is trying to drum, trying to get me into the spaces, tagging me rob, we're talking shit about you, whatever. He's been dming me non-stop with hey, come join my spaces, come talk. I've been blowing him off for a month. I was I was actually funny enough driving to go to dinner with g stack. Last week I got a half an hour drive to leslie in the 401. I'm like I'll turn on omar spaces. I'm listening. You know what they're talking about. They. They're just talking about Elf spaces. It's a constant. Every other competing space. All they do is talk about what Elf is doing wrong. This is what he's doing wrong, this and that, and it's like get some new content, guys, I join in there. 

27:03
They're talking about this guy like he's Hitler, like he's platforming the worst people imaginable and whatever. And fine, you can have that. Take, it's totally fair guys. Like a 25 year old kid gets to hang out with des bryant, he's seen like any. Any young kid could get influenced by that right and that type of experience. But what really bothered me, I finally joined the spaces. I'm speaking on the spaces. The next day I omar tweets out like we know what you did rob his whole hashtag hawk to uh, like I'm involved in some sort of crypto scandal. Like I finally joined the space and the next day the guy makes up a rumor about me. I'm done with this guy. He's, he's nothing. He's a zero in the space, zero. So him to be like oh, these push-ups are rigged. Who gives a fuck man? No one cares. We moved on from that like two weeks ago. It's done. It's done. 

27:55 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I agree. I just well, I don't have anything to say on that, omar, hasn't you know? Like all it's, like all rising tides, like lift all boats right, omar. The rising tide of the elf space should be doing more for the Omar space. 

28:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's kind of the opposite, I feel like he drowned in the tide. 

28:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There was one guy, Bling Bling, started a spaces last week. It got 32,000 views. It was like the second spaces he did. That's more than Omar has done in an entire month. 

28:26 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That was a space that was going head-to-head with an elf space and it was like the second spaces he did. That's more than omar has done in an entire month. That was a speed space. I was going head to head with an elf space and it was beating it. 

28:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was beating it for a while so that is to my point. 

28:34 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There is like still elf, like said he's a he's a young guy, he's doing his own thing, he's he's chasing his dream, might not be doing like those first week, two weeks of elf shows. Yeah, that was the show I want. That's probably not the show that I'm going to get. I'm still encouraging someone to try to open that store because I do think there's a boomer capper audience for that store. Elf's been in Vegas for two weeks straight with two days worth of clothes. He, he says water is hard to I heard on the space last night is water is hard to find here. 

29:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you just got to go down to this. You just got to go by water like I don't know. 

29:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
By water, get water across the street, um, but I just remember, rob, like the, obviously I went to vegas with like you do vegas like differently, like I've gone with my dad, yeah, I've gone with my wife. Go with your buddies for bachelor parties. They're all very different experiences. I remember the first time I went with a bachelor party with my friends, we did five days by the time, like wedding days were over. It was like two that five days we were like dead. We were like not human, uh. But he's been there on it for his first time. It's the first time ever in Vegas he's been there two fucking weeks Getting like the Sean Perry air, living this like influencer life. Yeah, I don't know, man, it's not. I will say I just do believe I'm not saying this is the favorite, but don't take offense to this, because I feel I'm actually very fair with Elf. I give him a lot of credit and I'm not afraid to fucking like Mizzy at one of those parties. Take my dick out and piss. What was the guy's name? Mikey? 

30:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The one who was urinating on females in the corner at a party. 

30:23 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm not afraid Mickey, mickey Mickey urinating on females in the corner at a party? I'm not afraid Mickey, mickey Mickey. I don't think it is out of the question. Everything is a work. To set up an Elf Perry fight, that very much. 

30:35
I don't think it is no offense to Elf. His character in my books is like just trending down in terms of like my ability to like, just believe him at face value, I agree. So just because of that and how this is all played out, I almost think and he knows, nothing is played better for him than fucking the boxing. Yeah, nothing works more. If he could any chance he can like hold on to the boxing, is is best for him and I believe whether he's trying to manufacture it. Uh, I thought that second fight like I was gonna was before it even happened. I didn't really trust it. So I know he's in this beef with perry and and he's saying you know I'm supposed to take elf at his word. Enough's happened in the the last couple weeks where I just can't. So I believe Perry versus Elf is an endgame here. 

31:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know that. I agree with you in the sense that I can't take anything at face value anymore, especially after the NBA Green Beans library, like you know, bathroom incident the next day their buddy is sitting at a a table. They're hanging around in vegas like I don't know none of it. 

31:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It seems just him like respect all females. Like you know, I can't force a girl to answer a question drunk and then it's like I'm gonna show her passed out in the back room though yeah, it's like I don't know, I don't, I don't know, for me I I am definitely at the point now where um, I still like crave having the option to have that entertainment value but it's not doing it for me right now. 

32:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's just me personally, sorry. 

32:19 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I like it because I am a child of long form. I love fucking radio. Yeah, okay, we used to work in it. I worked in it because I grew up loving it yeah I'm with you, I loved it. 

32:30
So I can like be down for a show that goes on and on. I could. If I like the host, I can drop out, I can drop back in. It's like when I'm in walking the dog, I'm in the car. Like no one listens to four hour radio show. When they're in the car for 12 minutes, they listen to the fucking radio show. When they get back from that appointment to drive somewhere else, they listen to another 15 minutes in traffic, like. So I like that. I am from loving radio, so I, yeah, I'm into it. I can. I crave it might be the right word, but I just, like I said, I want to be able to change the dial, yeah, and maybe find someone that's doing a show. I'm with you More in like Boomer Capper lane. 

33:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it's kind of lost the plot. All of them, all of the spaces, have kind of lost the plot for me altogether. 

33:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah. 

33:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You think of where they started to where they are now. I'm sorry, elf, I don't need to see like mazzy's fucking uh bodyguard or someone from his entourage who's like clearly having some sort of like roid rage incident, yell at people for 45 minutes like I can't, I can't do that. I mean, some people can. This is just my, my personal opinion, but I I still crave what the original space has brought. I just find that and like people who shit on elf and be like he's not a good host, I actually think he's a great host of the spaces I think he does everything to drum up some interest, because that's what's lacking in some of the other conversations that happen in spaces. 

34:01
It's like just bringing random people up. Yo, what do you got to say tonight? What do you got? And it's like, yeah, yeah, hold on, okay. 

34:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Well, like you could have that conversation two ways because, like I don't elf like needs the other people. Elf, yeah, you could not listen to elf do like a long form conversation by himself. He is not capable correct of that, so I don't think he is a good host. Yes, he needs, like he's desperate, the second he's got to go two minutes solo. He's desperate for someone else to like get in here and carry the fucking load base. 

34:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's every space. Every Twitter space is like that. There's no like I. 

34:40 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
We all, like I, we look at hosting like different things if you like. 

34:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sure, it's like a Twitter space and I probably listen to an offer and away like Vanna white just needs to like. 

34:48 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That's all he's doing. He's just flipping the board, he's flipping the letters yeah invite you up. He'll flip the letters. Oh, you called for a vowel. He changed the lights up. 

34:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He moves the vowels, so I guess he he's not like an actual host that I think you want to listen to him well, he's not howard stern like where you're like captivated by what he's saying, but he, he generally leads the flow in a good way if he doesn't have like nade, like he needs a, he needs a captain performer. 

35:15 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So in there for him, them to be good what I'll say about about. 

35:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It depends on what the end goal is. Right, but clearly he's trying to drive engagement. That's his end goal. So when when he brings on like amanda vance and people start complaining in the comments could be anyone, sean perry, whatever, but nobody's dropping off and the viewership is increasing, he's he is accomplishing every single one of those yes, you are right, but the show is still so young. 

35:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You can only be disingenuous with your audience so much before they feel like a lot of people feel and that's a good point and we could be here. There's only so many times. You can not deliver or be like a complete hypocrite before people are just done. The show is young enough. He's built a lot of equity. He's burned a lot of equity with his audience. There's been a lot of give and take on that respect, but there's all. You only get so much, rob fair enough you do valid point. 

36:14
Yeah, I agree you can't turncoat them so many times, and there was a point on the weekend where he like, mocked and like was like I would say like pretty mocked and rude towards his audience, and I don't think that is helpful either. 

36:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know. We're going to see where this goes. There's going to be a lot to talk about for the Friday crew and probably us again next week over the course of the week. Jacob, what do we got next here? 

36:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
So next conversation here is from Blackbeard at BlackbeardBets on Twitter, who posted a photo of an odd screen with all four of the March Madness matchups which we alluded to earlier, and he selected all of the one seeds, all of the pretty sizable favorites, and said somewhere out there, the capper is charging for this exact parlay. This weekend Drove up some conversation about the worst things that pig sellers do, but when it comes to you guys, do you have a problem with, like, let's say, a pig seller were to post this play, would you have? 

37:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
an issue with that? Yes, obviously. 

37:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Unless they could actually which no pig seller. I've ever seen parlay four games and can justify that being like a great price. 

37:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, especially four massive minus justify that being like a great price. Well, especially for massive minus favorites, that like yeah, all and it's all the games uh, uh, in like a weekend, like there's just, there's just no way that that is winning bet. 

37:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah I mean, listen, I I don't pay for. Well, I, I actually do pay for picks now, but let's say from, like, some respected services or whatever. But if, if I was, just if I was a my teenage rob paying for picks and betting them and someone sent me out a four-game parlay of every single favorite, I would, I'm gonna be pretty upset yeah, that's what I received. 

37:57 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's what I was thinking as well. Like even like a 19 year old who knows nothing about betting would see this parlay and be like what the fuck? 

38:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yeah, with that said, there's like there's there's so many things that bother me more than this type of stuff, though yes, oh, for sure, that's what I was kind of getting at Of the things to be upset about with pick sellers. 

38:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
This can't be very high on your list. 

38:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, number one for me that always triggers me from a pick seller is when they send out a fake line, a line that doesn't exist is when they send out a fake line, a line that doesn't exist. Do we know someone who does that Every now and then? I know what you're trying to get me to do, but I'm not going to commit to giving it. I know lots of people who do. 

38:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Okay, but does someone come to mind? Maybe messages, listen. I got to say if I've got a birdie in the DMs. 

38:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He's been on fire. 

38:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
By the way I was trying to avoid this at all costs, but now that it's been brought up, thank you very much, kirk. It is insane behavior to tell someone to go bet duke minus 7 000 and then say afterwards like that he should have posted it on an exchange. Like that is the most absurd behavior we can all post good prices on exchanges Like everyone knows how to do that. 

39:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Not only did he do that, he also called you out for saying that the line didn't exist. 

39:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will say we texted back and forth that day. I said, steve, I will be very happy to issue an apology if I can use the screenshot you sent me, which ended up being his forecaster screenshot, where he got matched for like 144 dollars on his duke minus 7 000 bet regardless. I wasn't speaking specifically to that but, like the, the pick sellers that give out the play after the market has steamed. That triggers me me to no end, because now you're telling somebody to go bet a line that doesn't exist and they are very likely going to play the worst price that has no value, because most pick buyers they don't really know how the market works and they don't understand that. You know somebody tells you to bet over 142 and a half the market works and they don't understand that. You know somebody tells you to bet over 142 and a half and it's now 145 and a half, like the value's not there anymore. 

40:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's the thing that triggers me the most in the pick selling debate yeah, to me, the stuff that pisses me off isn't like the really low level stuff like this, like and maybe this stuff is worse, but like it's what we were talking about of messaging the minus 7,000, saying my play was available at at least one major book. I don't know who would do that as well. But yeah, those things of the people who really are more in the sharp community somewhat, who pretend like they're real winners and want respect from real winners but do shit like that is what pisses me off, like for me it's maybe not the sellers, it's like the people so dumb to like be involved with it. 

40:57 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Like an amanda vance. Like 250 a month for truly nothing, yeah, like genuinely less than nothing. And she even acknowledges she doesn't even give them a sense of community, like you're just like, it's just nothing. Like literally. What I would say to that is save two hundred and forty dollars, spend ten dollars on a pretty girl flicking her clit on OnlyFans and make your own bets. Make your own bets and you're already plus 240, and you've got good beats material when the day goes bad. But it is this industry that's your plus EV of the week. 

41:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, there is this industry. Save the $240,. 

41:39 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Get a Clip Flicker on OnlyFans yeah 10 on the Clip Flicker, you save 240, and maybe you can win your own bets. 

41:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You can just buy free content and save even more money. 

41:49 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, so that would be. But it's just like Listen, some of these pretty girls, you could know the war they're having in their head. Like the internet, there's money on there. There's like I don't want to do that, I can't do that. I got to go home at Christmas. I got to look at my father in the eyes. My daddy is still alive. 

42:13
I can't do that but I can do this, I can sell sports picks, I can do this, this I can do. I mean to me so that, and like I bet they have this and like I can do that, I get to keep my integrity, my father won't hate me and um, game on, yeah, and there's enough to make make it work. And then, oh my god, rob, you got into it. Okay, no, we're gonna have a stroke or something. 

42:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm actually a better, better than you I don't know where this is going, but I'll play it up ask me why why are you a better, better? 

42:47 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I go to more games and my seats are fucking better. 

42:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And my seats are better. That was a crazy one. 

42:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't know, were you at the game. Like what the fuck does that mean? I know what does that mean. Like you go to the because you've got some sugar daddy that's going to take you to the game. 

43:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't care even if she pays for her own tickets. 

43:08 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It doesn't matter, she's not. 

43:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But at the end of the day, this whole segment, this to me is like picking the worst seat on the Spirit Airlines flight. They all fucking suck. Every seat on the flight sucks. All these cappers and the touts for the vast majority of, for the vast like the vast majority of, it is just complete shit. I get triggered by all of this stuff, even like yes, of course, someone telling me that they're a better hockey, better than me. 

43:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They were at the game. That's in their city they live in. 

43:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Congratulations Like what does that mean Releasing a stale line drives me crazy. And, just frankly, the majority of people who don't have an edge, that are selling picks that can't even describe why they have an edge. That drives me like. All of it drives me crazy, all of it, it doesn't matter it and like, yeah, the four favorite parlay. Sure, I'd fucking be incensed, but I'm gonna be incensed by anything I see in the space nowadays. Agree, that's the real problem. It's a complete fucking cesspool. Cesspool. And that's why this tweet did so much engagement, because people are all laughing. They know what the space is like. They're like, ha ha ha, hilarious. Yeah, I saw this guy do this. I saw that it fucking sucks, man, the space sucks, agree, but yes, she's not a better better than me because she went to game seven of the stanley cup. She's not. What do we got next here, jacob? 

44:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
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44:53
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45:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
As always, your comments are what drive the show. As much as possible, you can use hashtag circle back on Twitter. We see those every week. We incorporate them into the show and, of course, the YouTube comments down below. Reviewing last week's had a few here. Eric Shirley says I'm not sure how I stumbled into this show, but I love it now and look forward to the episode dropping each week. Appreciate that. Jeff saying let me see the fridge and oven and I'll figure it out. Had Jeff saying let me see the fridge and oven and I'll figure it out. Had me laughing on my commute. Do you remember that? Last week, you know I was thinking when you said that though I don't have like the nicest kitchen. 

46:11 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Well, have you just moved into a house? I live in an old house and you? 

46:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
have their kitchen. 

46:16 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I have the kitchen that is there, but it's also just me and my wife Like I don't have a big house, so if you saw my kitchen you'd probably be really underwhelmed okay. Well, I don't know if it's an old house, like you got the house so you like. Is there any renovating? 

46:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
no, it's not the kitchen itself is not is nice, it's done up, it's renovated, but it's like okay, sorry, I don't know but I do. 

46:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think it is a good signal of like fridge and oven versus like cars. 

46:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, if you got like a interior of the home is a better signal than you got something like good custom upholstery on your like furniture. 

46:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, it's nice. You rock in like a sub-zero fridge, a wolf stove. 

46:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's like oh fuck I'd like to see the walk-in closet personally. Yeah, walk-in closet is a very good like you can flash your rolex your lambo or whatever, but show me your walk-in closet. 

47:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I wish you got space to get. Yeah, there we go. 

47:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For sure. Punters connection, first view, let alone comment. Can't wait for Rob to call some other simpleton a genius and winning better again, like he does every week. Who did I call? Who did I reference to? I don't know. Also, if it's your first view, no, I think he's saying he was the first view. Oh, he was the okay. That makes a lot more sense, Because if it was your first view of the show, how would you know that? 

47:32
I would be calling someone a winning better every week. I don't know, do I do that a lot you can level with me. 

47:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Maybe, no, not that I Well, it could be in reference to me, so maybe that's why I don't think so, because you've definitely said I'm winning better here. 

47:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But who are you? Who is this in reference? Do you have no idea? After last week, I don't know that I could call you winning better anymore. I heard some stories on the side yes, there will be. 

47:58 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
There will be some stories coming out. Subscribe to kirk's hammer subscribe to kirk's hammer. 

48:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um, this is fucking awesome, says Floke1966. Four gimps chatting like a nerd version of the View. The loud, heavy guy must be the dungeon master. 

48:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I mean at the conception of this show. This is what I said it is. I'm only waiting for the table. 

48:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think that's a compliment, it is. 

48:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think it's a backhanded compliment. I think it's like a backhanded compliment. 

48:27 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But even the preconception, conception of this show. That is what I was saying to Rob the show. So I don't. How do you feel about being? 

48:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
a dungeon master. 

48:40 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't really. I don't know the game, so I don't know what that means. 

48:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm not familiar with the GIMP games either. Personally I'm not. I do enjoy, know the game, so I don't know what that means. Yeah, I'm not familiar with the GIMP games either. Personally I'm not. I do enjoy the insults personally. Yeah, I know. If you want to insult me on the comments, I read them every week. 

48:51 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But I think nerd version of the view is like exactly what we're going for. 

48:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, sort of I didn't read this and think it was a positive comment. 

49:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You didn't say it's positive, but I think it's kind of it's not that I'm not a fan. 

49:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's on the nose. It doesn't have to be positive or negative for it to be a bullseye. 

49:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's like one of those where you read the first You're like this is fucking awesome. You're like yeah this is great, and then you read more of it and you're like, wow, four gimps. Okay, I don't know, yeah, but sure but it's like it is to kirk's point. It's kind of what we're going it is four progressive nut jobs. 

49:27 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, like freaking out about everything, so, but, but, but. But. At the conception I said the, just the concept, like I wanted the view I mean, this is how. 

49:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is how grp advertises our show every week. 

49:41 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He says it's like the view for sports and rob's and grp says like he admits he hate, watches the view. Yeah, he loves to know what those ladies are saying. The only thing I love is sort of like whoopee. I wish there was a table here to cover my gunt, you're looking. 

49:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, all black is a good choice if you want it was unintentional you didn't know the comment was coming. What it's? We move on Well at least for the hater comments. 

50:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
At least like people who come up with something Other than just calling it circle jerk, like the most low hanging fruit that everybody's already exhausted. Like if you're at least gonna talk shit, at least come up with something Interesting for a comeback or for a roast. 

50:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Talk shit. Talk shit in the comments this week. 

50:24 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Absolutely, and on Twitter, please. 

50:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Mdenzy said man of the library in the bathroom but, man of the library, oh, man of the library oh good, good catch good catch jeff, read that one misses it when I say it, when he reads it. 

50:37
He never, he doesn't know, it's true, ever man in the library, in the man of the library in the bathroom was all time brett made a business decision not getting in there, as any sane person would. Again, like I can't, even I don't even know that it wasn't scripted like as we talked about before now, I honestly have no idea of telling whether or not that was real or a fake interaction. Man of the library, excuse me, has got to be like the fakest person I've ever seen. 

51:03 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I also feel like it was kind of consensus that like, oh, Brett made this like right decision, Like man of the library, library, whatever you want to say. Like he's like a short, like nothing. I didn't think it was like so scary to get into the washroom with him. I thought Brett was like, if he's going to talk that much shit whatever Go in the washroom and fight him. 

51:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think washroom and fight them, it just gives an advantage. 

51:23 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's a very canadian term, by the way restroom bathroom, bathroom washroom, I believe, is uh, very no, I just I'm very canadian I agree, if you're like the bigger, stronger guy, I think you're going to kick someone's ass like who cares if you're in the washroom? But to the other person, the smaller dude, I do think it like levels the playing more variance in it. 

51:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You know, to put you in like a telephone box. 

51:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, I agree. As opposed to the more athletic, bigger guy getting to like utilize it. I agree with that. 

51:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
My point is that, like I didn't think the washroom was like this massive swing, it was probably good for man of the Library but like I didn't think it was like, oh my God, if Brett went in there, he's going to die. 

52:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's a lot easier to chloroform someone's rag in a telephone booth than it is in a large space. 

52:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Agreed, All right. John Reed 91, timestamped a part of last week's episode said the Pizzola Fezzik fallout is actually sneakily good content. I'm here for it. 

52:23 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I got buddies who eat this shit up and I explained to them like from my POV, because I get it a bit, not so much. You like you, you I like it. Sometimes it can feel like it's an old married couple yeah, so. 

52:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't. I don't know who finds it entertaining, who doesn't well, I find it very. I'm so done with it at this point. Like the amount of hashtag circle back on fezik tweets every week, now it's like I don't want to turn the whole show into steve fezik roast. I'm really actively trying to avoid like that continued beef I'd like to. I don't, I don't know. I'm trying to continue. 

53:01 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I will just say, like the practice of like you, it's a tricky game Getting your own juice in and then sending out your carrier pigeons or your emails to clients Like that's a tough racket, but I do think my sample size is he wins bets. 

53:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And I'm not talking about minus 7,000. 

53:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Again. 

53:29 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And the thing is, you've never disputed that fact. It's never been about that for me. 

53:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I'm going to. This is not going more than a minute where I'm not doing this conversation. 

53:38 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Jacob put him on a horn there. 

53:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For me as a sports better. I pride myself, at least nowadays, on being open-minded and there's like new things I'm constantly learning. There's like new bet types, sgps, how ways to attack them, stuff like that to me, me and phasic, just the, the I don't want to use. I'm going to use the term now that I said I want, but like I don't want to use the term dinosaur. It's not really what, but he's a very old school way of thinking where he's just like I've done it this way for so long. This is the way. Anybody who doesn't do it this way is a dumbo, using his terminology. 

54:14
The dumbos do this, this and that I don't agree with that I mean, I I think there's like a million different ways to win at sports betting and um anyways, that that's really the the precipice of all of it. It's like these matter of fact statements like this is the thing you must do. All sharps are doing this. All the sharps I know are betting sweet 16 unders or whatever, like I don't give a fuck man. That's it anyways. Let's keep it moving here. I think I kept that under to under a minute. 

54:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You did close. Yeah, no, it wasn't yeah. 

54:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, it wasn't you guys. No, you had time to kill. 

54:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, I was pretty much exactly a minute, so good job there. Next topic, though, on the topic of circle back number. Well, some would call it circle back number one. 

54:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Friday, 8 am Now with Jeff Nadu as one of Sorry, who would call it Fact number one? Just because you hosted Jacob, let's not put the wrong facts in there. 

55:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I don't know, Rob. I saw some comments. They're wondering if I'm coming for the throne. 

55:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I did see those as well. They conveniently weren't included in your comment section today. 

55:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I also saw some that said who the fuck is this guy? Why is he hosting? So you know it's kind of both ends of it, but Jeff Nadeu caught probably most of the heat for being on the panel as one of the members of that show. Under the promotion for that show there was a comment from at Dallas underscore SHP. I guess Jeff Nadu brackets losing pick seller. 

55:39
The new co-host of Circle Back 2, hashtag Circle Back Caught our attention, obviously because it was underneath one of our own posts there. But Jeff Nadeau is an online personality who is on that panel, definitely a controversial figure in the gambling space and people do find him entertaining. But he also wrote a lot of people the wrong way and people were excited he was on this show. Some people were very upset that he was on this show, but it was covered in the first. If you haven't seen it the friday, go back. Fluff even mentioned not sure if jeff nadeau's a winning pig seller. Jeff never claimed to be a winning pig seller. I'd say owned himself pretty well overall on that on that. But what did you guys think of this? 

56:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yeah. So, first and foremost, I want to say we're definitely not hiding from the fact that jeff sells picks like it's. It's. It's known. I'm not hiding from it. 

56:31
Um, I personally had some beef with jeff nadu years ago as well, where we kind of had like a a mini battle on twitter that eventually, uh, went over. The reality is, I didn't really like jeff until about three months ago, until I started actually hearing him in the twitter spaces, and for me, I don't encourage the pick selling. I would I wish jeff wouldn't sell picks. I agree with what fluff said on the friday show about how, like there are levels of pick seller and to like just put jeff in like the level of a, let's say, like a Sean Perry or something like that, it's not fair. Like one is clearly really trying to scam people, mislead and stuff like that. With that said, I'm just speaking, I'll actually give you guys an opportunity. Like when I came to you guys and let you know who was going to be part of that show, was there any hesitation to be having Nadeau on? 

57:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Honestly, like I didn't really know much about the pic selling. I did write in a group chat like a few months back or whatever weeks, I don't know when the uh spaces started. Like it's funny that all these like pic sellers come on and get roasted on the space. But like nadu has a patreon in his twitter bio. But I thought he handled it really well. I thought everything he said I didn't really disagree with I. 

57:49
Chris called him out being like because he said something along the lines of like oh, I get even more mad about like, how bad I'm doing in march. Madness, I only care about it because the people are losing money. I don't even care about it for me. And chris is like I hate it when people say that like if that's true, just pay people back, which I think is a great point. And jeff was like no, anyone who subscribed right around march madness, I paid back in full for the pics. I'm like that's a pretty good response. I don't know. 100, that's true. He seems like a pretty reasonable guy. I thought he handled himself well, I think nadoo is great. 

58:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I think even before you said he was gonna be a host, I'm like nidoo should be like a counterbalance on that show. I think he is a good personality. I think he's good at the internet and, yeah, he is the lowest tier. He's the lowest tier of pick seller. Yeah, I didn't mean like load, I think he's top shelf internet. 

58:42
Yeah, low tier pick seller and I would almost put it. He is on the tier where it's almost like, if you're buying the nadoo patreon, it's almost like you're like just in for like a magazine subscription, like we used to be in back in the day. You're just like. I want to support jeff nadoo. I like his content. He's clearly an independent contractor. He told fucking portnoy to shove it up his ass. I like what he does. He entertains me more than the patreon is worth to me and I just want to support him so he can keep just doing what he does. And I'm not saying that's everyone, but I think in like that tier that's actually like a pretty high percentage of um sorry, I know what you're getting at the. 

59:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So for me, the big thing about the hammer since its inception was to have people on that are authentic. That's always been the goal. Right, it's never. A people of us is like a sharp sports betting network and and a lot of our creators are sharp some of them are pro bettors, like full-time no other job. Some are semi-pros, like like knish there's. We have a pretty good roster of people who understand sports betting, and I'm not saying that jeff't, but the reality is what I've always been going for is authenticity and to me, those people on that show are extremely authentic people. 

01:00:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Agreed, they're not there misleading people. 

01:00:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're not making up stories about themselves. You don't have to fully agree with someone to respect them as a content creator and respect their authenticity. Jeff nadu says many things that I totally do not agree with. All right, when he went on his rant on like a spaces a month ago about there's like no place for women in sports or whatever. I strongly disagree with that. 

01:00:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I didn't know. He said that. 

01:00:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But he's got a lot of strong opinions Like yeah, I like Jeff Nadeau, I do not agree with everything he says. A lot of it is weird. A lot of it is proven factually incorrect in my daily life with just how good my wife is at her job, Like she doesn't belong just at home looking after the kids. 

01:01:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right, I agree, but I think at the same time. I think jeff's fucking great but he's entitled to his opinion for one, and like he gets put down and he'll argue it, I think he authentically believes these things and to me that's what makes a good, that makes good content. Like you know, shipper used to roast us when we first started this show, right for jeff's appearance he still kind of does and he he still. 

01:01:26
He still probably does. But for shipper, his idea of good content is like let's have three like-minded individuals there, all who share my point of view, and and let's put. And that, to me, is terrible. That's terrible content. It's boring. I would never even watch that. If I'm watching a show and every single person is agreeing with everything, I have to say all the time I don't really care for it. You need some sort of disruptor. I think the combo of Kanish Nadeau Flup that's three very different people, very different deliveries and I think that a mixture like that makes for good content. So if people are upset because Nadeau sells picks, I would rather Nadeau not sell picks. I'll be completely honest with you. I think Nadeau sells picks. I would rather Nadeau not sell picks. I'll be completely honest with you. Do I think Nadeau is going to be a winning, profitable bettor for his client base in the long run? No, I don't. I would be lying if I, but he's not really advertising for one. 

01:02:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But doesn't he say that he also like it's a show and he talks through the board? 

01:02:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And I'm not defending the selling. 

01:02:25 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm not defending the selling of the picks, but it's not just like the picks, it's like if people like to do, there's extra to do, yeah, and you can pay for extra to do other than the 90% to do, that's free, yes, agreed. 

01:02:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like I don't think that's an issue, I don't think that's even worth giving them a hard time for I mean I've had, we've had so many pick sellers on this network before. It's never been about the pixel. I don't agree with the pick selling, don't get me wrong, right, but we've had it's. I want people that are real, that's it, that's all it comes down to authentic real. I mean you talk to him to do about his pick package, you'd be like fucking buy it or fucking don't. 

01:03:03 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't give a shit he's actually one for how much vitriol he probably gets, has gotten, continues to get on the internet. You know bosco can send fucking his army at him. 

01:03:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He he handles like he's very calm and level-headed when he's being attacked yeah, I was not expecting how calm and normal he seemed on the pod. Yeah, he's being attacked. 

01:03:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I was not expecting how calm and normal he seemed on the pod. 

01:03:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, he's a normal guy. Yeah, he thinks things through. 

01:03:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, he can get emotional, for sure, I've, I've heard, as can anyone when they're in an argument with someone else. But yeah, so I listen. I don't stay clear of topics like that. If you do use hashtag, circle back. I see everything. I'm fine to own the decision of bringing Nadeau on board and I don't really like I'll talk it through. People might say, rob, you're a hypocrite, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. But for me, just understand that for hiring process for the hammer, it's always been about authenticity. I'm looking for people who can keep it real with the audience and not misrepresent themselves. I'm looking for people who can keep it real with the audience and not misrepresent themselves. I think Jeff Nadu is very entertaining and he ticks those boxes. 

01:04:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't need to give more praise because I think he's great. I don't know him personally, like just through the internet, so I'm also like aware of his track record of like three weeks into this he might tell you this to like fuck off Even if it's going great, he might not be on the show a month from now. 

01:04:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Who knows? I have no idea. 

01:04:29 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I hope that's not true, but I'm a big enough Nadeau fan to know the story arc, but also for those who watched the first Friday episode, as Kirk alluded to. 

01:04:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What you'll notice is that Kanish and Fluff did not let him off the hook for the pick selling, and that's like that I thought he responded like as good as he, I agree but like. 

01:04:48
But we're not. We're not shying away from it, we're not like pretending that it doesn't exist, and that's what I want to get across as well. Right, authentic content. We're not hiding it's. It's always going to be real conversation. So circle back two, not circle back one. Circle back to the second of every week fr. Friday drops at 8 am Eastern Time. You can listen to it on your way to work, whatever you want to do over the course of the day, but that's dropping here on the Circles. Off channel Baseball season is in full swing and, just like the game, sharp bettors know that their timing and liquidity are key. 

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01:06:07
Boost visa debit card today. Link down in the description below. We do like to cover some uh regular sports stories every now and then that maybe don't actually have a sports betting tie in, necessarily, although you could argue that this one does, uh, but this one made the rounds over the last weekend, uh, because it caught a lot of people by surprise. Jacob, I'll hand it over to you here. 

01:06:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Well, it has been dubbed the torpedo bat that the New York Yankees have been using this season, and they have been absolutely mashing with it as well. 

01:06:37
So photos surfaced of the new bats that a lot of the Yankees players are using this season, which has a very bulbous section on where the player would frequently hit the ball with. 

01:06:48
So they had a team of people at the Yankees dive into the statistics on where that player most frequently gets connection with the ball and they've made a more bulbous section of the bat in that area. So for some people that's on the barrel, but guys like Anthony Volpe will hit it closer to the logo, so that's where his bat is going to be a little bit bigger, and people have been upset about that because, well, I don't like the Yankees. But people hate the Yankees, yes, and want to shit on the Yankees every opportunity that they can here. And also, they won 20-9 against the Brewers. They hit eight home runs and it's probably down to the bats. But the interesting part of the conversation is that there's nothing illegal about what the Yankees are doing here. This is completely within the confines of the rules. So, to open the conversation, does anybody have a problem with the Yankees using these torpedo bats. 

01:07:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Did they use them in spring training? That I don't know, so they just debuted them. No, I think they. They use them in spring training. That I don't know, so they just debuted them? No, I think they did use them in spring training, so no one talked about it in spring training, I guess, because maybe the Yankees weren't hitting eight home runs a game. 

01:07:53
But if it was just this thing that they debuted and hit in camp then shouldn't they have waited for a more high leverage moment to debut it? I actually don't think. It's like I don't know what to make of it. If it's in the rules, it's in the rules. If it works, everyone will be doing it in a week yeah, like jacob, jacob benji. 

01:08:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know about you, kirk, but me and jeff are huge blue jays fans. 

01:08:16
I would assume you're toronto I would say huge, but I would cheer very hard we're in toronto, we're Blue Jays fans, I'm conditioned to hate the Yankees, but the reality is I do love innovation, like off the field, right. It's what drives me to like someone like Bryson, right, and I think this is a very much a love it or hate it thing, because some people hate Bryson for all the stupid shit he does on the golf course, but I like, especially if you're playing within the rules. I think the real problem here is that it's just the Yankees Like. I think if this happened to a smaller market team, a smaller market team that came out and said like started using the bats and was having success, I actually do think that the public narrative, like if Oakland did this, yes, it would be charming, yeah, be charming, but to jeff's point of like why did they bring it out at this time? 

01:09:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
like I'm still not that convinced, no, no, sorry, I just looked it up. 

01:09:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They were using it in spring training and also a player on the jays is using it and a player on the twins is using it. So I'm not that convinced. It's like as revolutionary as it seems, just based on. 

01:09:27 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I could be totally wrong the brewers being two games, the brewers pitchers might have just been that bad. Yeah, we don't know. 

01:09:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I will say and you said this is somewhat sports betting related like I think if you can become a torpedo bat expert very quickly, that is like a serious money-making opportunity right now. 

01:09:47 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So I saw I saw people were auto betting the overs by, like people were fgping everyone who uses a torpedo bat on the yankees to get like hits or runs and and people were round robining these or or sgping them and getting like so funny 

01:10:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
payouts yeah, and if you think it's more like getting priced too much into the market, too little into the market, there's there's a lot of question marks. I just I'm just not as sure because again, like, were they raking in spring training? It's five players on the team I think are using it. Like it's not every player, but it's also. I agree with you, it's really cool. I was talking to my roommate about it last night. It's kind of one of those things where once you hear about, it's like how has no one ever thought? 

01:10:26 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
about this. Yeah, and it's like in the same way. I'm not comparing it to analytics, but you have to use your advantage and at a point the oakland a's had analytics as an advantage and maybe the yankees used some engineering and rnd and created an advantage within the rules. I don't know, maybe they'll not hit home runs in their next series and we'll laugh about. Remember when we did the I don't mean us as a show, but just the narrative over the weekend. Remember that opening day Yankees weekend thing. I look at it like you, rob, more as a golf or a hockey fan. I don't really care about hockey, but it seems like they make advancements. This is major league baseball's tush, push man it, it's the tush. 

01:11:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Push like. The eagles came out one year and said every fourth and one were running a quarterback sneak with jay and they, they executed that to perfection. Now, granted, like this is equipment, it's equipment it's more like the three point. 

01:11:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's like using a sticky glove in football and then they're like no, you can only have a certain amount of it. Is equipment? The bat meets every standard? I don't. It seems like to Kirk's point, other teams are aware of this technology. The guy who created it, or the lead MIT guy now works for the Marlins, who used to work for the Yankees, who was the brainchild of this, so I don't know. 

01:11:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's around the league now well, and that's what that like. If this works, the entire league is just going to adopt this or the league is going to put in rules against this type of bat. One of the two things is going to happen. It'll be a competitive playing field by end of season in all likelihood and it. 

01:12:05 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's kind of like F1, of, like you know, building the car to the driver, similar building the bat to the hitter. 

01:12:14 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And if I'm a Yankee fan, like I, am thrilled in the sense that like like yes, there's like a salary, there's not a salary cap in baseball, but there's like a luxury tech. This is us using our resources and our wealth in a way that, like, we are fucking paying people to be doing R&D, the same way Callaway is doing R&D on fucking a spin machine hitting the ball nonstop. 

01:12:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
With that said, I hope this completely fails because I hate the Yankees. 

01:12:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I love the idea. 

01:12:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I love, I don't know. I think it's something. Well, Jeff really likes it too, so I don't want to like narrow it down, but I think as sports bettors, and especially when you're betting seriously you're conditioned to like gain an edge by any means necessary. Really, you will do anything to find some sort of inefficiency in the market, and to me this is like inefficiency in the market in the sense that the bats are not optimized properly. We're going to use our resources, we're going to take advantage of that. We'll have a leg up on the competition. 

01:13:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's brilliant Total separate, but like kind of in my lane, would you say a market inefficiency be like betting on guys like Wyndham Clark or Patrick Reed because you know they actually might be willing to cheat. 

01:13:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know how much it would actually impact but, like some guys, would never cheat. 

01:13:34 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But these guys, they would like fluff a lot. 

01:13:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would say the one time that Patrick Reed is going to ground his club in the bunker or something is not enough to overcome the Vink on the entire market. 

01:13:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Wyndham might do something twice around. 

01:13:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You never know. 

01:13:48 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I mean, listen, it is a little bit. I like him, I'm a fan, not a bad idea. He was on my card last week. 

01:13:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, let's get to the chopping block here. Jacob Stuff that was tag-circled back this week, that we have some opinions on, but not enough to warrant a full segment first up here from john fendler. 

01:14:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He's done some content video wise for the hammer. He does writing writing as well for us sometimes, but really good college basketball better and essentially he's coping right now with having these massive cards like so many plays going on throughout the season 20 plus plays then going down to four plays per day and way less action than previously. Saying that the adrenaline is gone when for most people in March Madness the adrenaline will be going up. Yeah, do you guys share those sentiments in moments like this? 

01:14:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I feel it. So I just my sport that I predominantly bet is is NHL I. If the Leafs aren't in the Stanley Cup Finals which they never are I'll be honest, I, I, I don't really give a shit about. I'll watch some Stanley Cup finals games here and there, but from a betting perspective, after the first round of NHL playoffs, I'm like done. I'm like how do I do this anymore? I'm going to wait around all day for two games and bet on those. So I completely resonate with this? 

01:15:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Oh, 100%, and it's definitely something that like concerns me in my life of, like, when I take a break or don't have anything going, it like does feel like something's like missing. Because I'm so used to checking scores, seeing what's happening in, you know, let's say, the nba, with like an eight game slate, and then it's like this weird, not empty feeling, but it's clear something's missing which, like I kind of wish didn't exist, because I want to be able to like take breaks and think that my bedding is totally like unemotional and I'm completely removed from it. But yeah, it's just like. It is a feeling you get. So I totally resonate with this. 

01:15:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm no doctor, but isn't there a clinical term? 

01:15:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
for this. 

01:15:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Isn't it called withdrawal? 

01:15:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, it is, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%, but you just go so hard for the entire year and you're used to so many games. 

01:15:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There would probably be NBA days for you where there's one or two games. That specific day of the week for me for NHL, it's like I don't even want to be around. 

01:16:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That's me personally. What do you make of the bait? Like like shout out to all the baseball bros out there like I love baseball, I'm not. I don't like really bet it at all, um, because I'm not in deep and it's volatile, yeah. But like Rob, you got friends from the start of opening day to the last day of the season. They're like what a fucking ride that is. At least with football, it's like come up for air. 

01:16:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There is no coming up for air outside of the All-Star break, that's true, it is a fucking, but I honestly don't know how many of my friends still keep up with the full season. 

01:16:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They'll schedule vacations for their family in the summer, oh sure, but I mean like, no, if you're, if you're like a better like so I haven't been vacated, like it's just, the model says this and we're waiting for the line to drop and it was that that was one like I did bet baseball seriously for a few years and did well I. 

01:16:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't have an edge on baseball anymore and I don't do it, but it to me, was the largest grind of any sport Because at that time when I was betting, lineups used to come out at different periods over the course of the day. One team would release a lineup 107, you're reacting in real time. Then you get another lineup seven. You couldn't leave, you could not do anything over the course of a day, you had to be around and that was an insane, insane grind which I don't miss. But uh, I definitely feel like the drop off and if I was a college basketball better and I got to march madness, where it's. I I mean, you have interest because you, you're, you're a college fan, but from a betting perspective, the adrenaline is definitely gone next up our weekly grp segment. 

01:17:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
We gotta have a throw in here. Tweeted that I just tried to place a bet on the nfl draft, but draft kings limited me to 33 cents. Yes, one third of one dollar. Do you guys think grp is making bets that warrant getting limited? 

01:17:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think I'm gonna be very careful with what I say here, because I know grp is going tout and I don't want to give him clips ammunition. 

01:18:08 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
By the way, he's already given me like I am getting at least a couple percentage of the reason he's gone, tout he's giving you. No sorry, I'm not getting points. 

01:18:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean like the confidence to go tout in a space. 

01:18:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Like the confidence to go tout in a space, Like he's acknowledged, like you're probably. Maybe this whole show is responsible, Rob, you might just like you for Zalbert's transformation. You're the kingmaker, George. Like I'm getting some credit from George as the reason he's going tout, which is insane. I don't know that you want that credit. I love George. 

01:18:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is your Oppenheimer moment. Here's what I'm going to, which is insane. 

01:18:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I don't know that you want that credit. I love George. This is your Oppenheimer moment. Here's what. 

01:18:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm going to say about this in particular. I know the game Me and Kirk know the game. If you show that you're regularly going to beat the closing line in a market, you're going to get limited. And he's talking about NFL draft. George places NFL draft bets on the day that they open at DraftKings. He's betting Cam Ward minus 160 first overall and the guy's like minus 1,000. 

01:19:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Now that's an easy market to beat. You're cooked dude. So you're saying George is really good at betting the NFL draft. 

01:19:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would say that George has shown the propensity to beat the market in the NFL draft. 

01:19:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, and I think anyone who has a bunch of time and knows really anything about the NFL can probably beat the draft, which is just such an information market. Not to take away credit, but yeah, I'm sure he should be limited on this Not should be limited, but I'm sure he's in the market and even that 165K award. 

01:19:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I remember the tweet when he sent it that 165 cam ward. I remember the tweet when he sent it um like how am I? I don't even think, even like, yeah, f dual was letting you bet as much as he would have even wanted you, you, you listen, the nfl draft market. 

01:19:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
In my opinion, if you're, if you, if you want to bet it, you have to wait for the market to mature a little bit and you have. You have to know going in it's. It's a sad reality, by the way. I'm not suggesting that this is like, but you have to know going in that if you're gonna crush the nfl draft, you're going to get limited at that sports book, plain and simple. So to me, I I hate when people complain about being limited. I really don't like it. Yeah, george, okay, you're limited to 33 cents, but you fucking beat the market on all these bets and you bet them really early. That's one of the dumbest things you can do as a bettor. You deserve that. 

01:20:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think George should take his like. I think him being limited and betting any edge he has is a good thing. I think George is doing the right thing here and he just happened to get limited, but I think he should keep shoving oh, fair enough, but I my whole. 

01:20:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know what, though we complain about? 

01:20:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
yes and no yeah, because if you're like overall, like showing the book that you're not a sharp, better. But there's this like one corner of sports gambling, yeah, that you're good at they should still, and their limits aren't even high to begin with. 

01:21:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What did he get down on that bet? Do you remember the Cam Ward one? 

01:21:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Well, that was at a different site, okay. Okay, so maybe that was at a different site Either way so my point being is if you're still not a sharp bettor, let's not even be talking about George, but there's one area where you've got a bit of an edge DraftKings. Won't. Let me bet 10 cents on a golfer. 

01:21:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sure. 

01:21:29 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But I don't know. I lose enough to them on football and they just let me bet my fucking golfers. It's not fair. It's like this store is open to you, but it's like I'm 12 years old and I can't go behind the porno shelf because I'm not allowed in in there, but I'm allowed in the other parts of the video store. There used to be stores you can rent videos kirk, you'd go there you ever get a blockbuster video. 

01:21:51
You'd be there on the weekend on like friday your mom would take you. You'd get it like rent video games and movies and you have for the whole weekend and then you had to bring them back and then like in some of the more, get late charges every day. Yeah and the yeah and the independent places had like a porn section, but it was behind like a curtain. 

01:22:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, curtain or a closed door in the back. I think I was too young. For that I didn't know that that was a. Thing. 

01:22:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, so you only arrived when, like, blockbuster, had taken over the whole marketplace pretty much. 

01:22:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Man. Those days at Jumbo Video when I was a kid, my dad would be like we're going to rent a. Nintendo game. I'm like let's go. 

01:22:25 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Let's go Popcorn machine, let's go To your point. 

01:22:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I imagine George isn't limited on other bets. 

01:22:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, that's why, so I just think shouldn't they just because he's a losing customer in other regards, shouldn't they just swallow it Like that's why the industry just fucking sucks? I agree. 

01:22:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't think that's a bad point at all, Like you're just not a sharp. 

01:22:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There's one area where you've like got your thing. It's like I don't know. It's like this lunch place runs a great special on Tuesdays and what do you know? Tuesdays are my day off, so I'm gonna hit that special every fucking week. 

01:22:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Speaking of lunch specials, this is more of a dinner special. 

01:23:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Well Jersey, jerry, more of a dinner special. Well jersey jerry. Member of the barstool team. Said oh boy, this is a pretty, this is an incredible. Tweet. Said my nanny was a diabetic. She died on her birthday. The night I bought her an ice cream sundae which, by the way, I mean I don't mean to don't say it don't say it. 

01:23:22
Listen, your nanny is diabetic. You gave her an ice cream sundae. Anyways, her favorite food was the shrimp box from Popeye's. It was always the shrimp box and he has a screenshot of his mom texting him. I'm going to get a shrimp box at Popeye's. Thinking of nanny Prayer hands, heart emoji. 

01:23:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's nothing to say here other than this is, I think, an all-timer tweet. There's nothing to say here other than this is, I think, an all-timer tweet. I saw this come across on my For you on Twitter, and. 

01:23:54 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I read it for a second time because I was unsure of what I read the first time around. 

01:23:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will say my original reaction was like did this guy kill his nanny with the Sunday? But it's such a good like. It's just so good, like on on so many levels. It is such a fucking funny tweet. It really and I mean I hate to say it because somebody is referencing someone, but he knew what he was doing 100 like. It's just imagine. This was obviously meant to be funny like I just take a step back and like imagine getting the text message from your mother that says I'm getting a shrimp box at popeye's, thinking of nanny with, like the prayer hands and the heart and whatever. Uh, it was always the shrimp box. It was always the shrimp box gonna use that was really good kirk evans here. 

01:24:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Subscribe to kirk's hammer, a friday newsletter about the betting space stuff that most people don't talk about, in my opinions, every friday. 

01:24:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Get subscribed using the link in the description. Well, we had similar topic for the Friday show where we talked about Fliff who allegedly closed some accounts and didn't pay out people what was in their accounts. But another one has happened here with Jazz Sports, and Jazz Sports has had a new ownership group take over and sports bears are reporting that their accounts are getting closed with no payouts. Jazz has not made any reply to the concerns and Spanky replied or quoted this tweet and said this is a huge black eye on the offshore sportsbook industry. 

01:25:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm sure a lot of people that are watching, especially on the sharper side, were hoping that we would talk about this a lot more. Again, I don't want to misrepresent myself. So for those that don't know, when I first became a sharp bettor I was pretty much betting nothing myself All of the action. Like I would be betting MLB, nhl, I would send it to a mover. They would bet it on my behalf. I was not clicking bets myself. Nowadays I click way more bets because I'm betting props and I have legal market in Ontario. 

01:25:52
But I've never bet with jazz. I'm sure some of my movers have before. I don't want to pretend like I know anything about the history of jazz and the operation. There's so jazz grande, like there's so many things I see on the odd screen where I'm like I've heard of this before but I I can't speak to it. I have not. That was that predates me. So I I don't really have anything to say on this other than it's pretty fucking shitty for bettors that you know when somebody just takes your money and runs basically what's happening here. 

01:26:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm with you. I have never bet with jazz, so I don't know that much of the situation. But, like, as much as we like to talk up the offshore market, this is really, yeah, where you run the risk, because there is really nothing to do here versus, you know, if this was a legal company that was operating out of ontario, you know not to to defend them. They do a lot of shitty, shitty things, but at least you kind of have some places to go, which, to be fair, like the gaming commissions, are fucking horrible as well. But this sucks and yeah, I don't know much about it, but I've seen a bunch of people I know talk about it and it sucks. 

01:27:07 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So, there's a lot of things I don't know about and I feel less stupid about on this show, but I'm usually aware of the sports books and I never heard of this fucking book, jazz so I've heard and I'll tell you this I'm like I'm on a ton of the offshores. 

01:27:21
I don't need to list them all, of the ones that that people are familiar with. I think they're. People might disagree. I think they're incredibly reputable. That's just my point of view. In fact, no wonder they're probably doing so great as a whole, as fucking these television books limit anybody who even pretends to know what they're fucking doing. So we all run back to our safe space offshores. I don't bet with low tier offshores yeah like that with the offshores that are actually some name. 

01:27:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, exactly Like I think the Jazz name kind of predates me as a winning better and that they were a lot larger at one point or another, I've never even heard someone reference Jazz. 

01:28:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Churnoff would a lot. 

01:28:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Adam Churnoff would, on Simple Handicap, like when he does his rundown of the board, he would always say jazz. 

01:28:16 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You know I don't want to get into that and I, like Chernoff and I didn't mean because we're an hour and a half in and they haven't come up and Kirk's been a good boy. 

01:28:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, we're not doing this now, but how? 

01:28:26 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
they did. I thought it was so low grade of them giving out their win total stuff on lines that didn't even exist. I didn't see that? 

01:28:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, I didn't see this. 

01:28:38 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
ESPN bet put out win totals and they posted. 

01:28:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I think For. 

01:28:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
NFL, yeah, whatever. 

01:28:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Never mind. 

01:28:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, you got to fill me in a little bit more, no now I feel like I don't want to say something wrong, maybe you're misrept. Okay, maybe you're misrepresenting. Okay, well, we'll get to the bottom of it I'll fair. 

01:28:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I just saw a lot of people complaining, but I was like oh, there they go again. 

01:28:58 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I did not. 

01:29:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like $200 limit. They did not release a win total. 

01:29:02 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, no, I think it might have been on like an independent. 

01:29:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, I think I know what you're referring to. 

01:29:08 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Adam has his own separate. 

01:29:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, he did a newsletter where he went through every single win total that was posted and he provided his win totals for the year. I think Got it Okay. I don't know. I think that's fine content. 

01:29:19 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I could be wrong, then it's a bit of a weird thing to do. 

01:29:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're going to get to the bottom of this. It's something you want to bet Regardless. 

01:29:23 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Adam's my favorite one there by definitive gap. 

01:29:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So if I got it wrong, jeff fan, I don't know. 

01:29:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You don't know, jeff, he might be Jeff at Bash this year. He doesn't spell it Gioff, though he spells it the more traditional way. He spells it the normal way, the traditional way. Yeah, the right way. Yeah, the more traditional way. 

01:29:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Finally, we had, I guess, someone looking for clout this week. 

01:29:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Last one was our very own. 

01:29:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Kirk. 

01:29:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Evans saying humans were not designed to sweat, sgps Look at that Kirk. A couple of parlays here. Like you said, it was like round robin parlays that. 

01:29:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, these weren't round robin, just SGPs, just SGPs, various SGPs. 

01:29:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You know, there's a plus 6,000, plus 6,500. There's a 225 to 125. 

01:30:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Also just for clarity Westbrook got an assist and ended at six and went to the bench, and Jamal Murray got an assist with, like I think, a minute left and got to six. 

01:30:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
So you were quite tilted. You were sweating some Bs, some large STPs, and they came very close and didn't win. 

01:30:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, people shat on me for posting this. I don't know. I thought it was funny but honestly it was way funnier because I had a lot more tickets that were all lost, but they only let me post four, so it kind of looked shitty. 

01:30:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
but yeah, like sorry, who only let you post for twitter you only left four pictures, because no, I I got sent the pictures and it was just like funny to scroll through like every bet. 

01:30:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But yeah, people were like, oh, you're posting an edge. Like I did not think that people kind of misrepresented what the edge was. But yeah, I don't know, maybe I shouldn't have posted it. 

01:30:52 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
So other gamblers are upset because they feel like I could backtrack to your edge through these pictures. 

01:30:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That 365 could do that. 

01:31:00 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Oh. 

01:31:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm going to ask you a question, a very honest question. It's a yes or no answer. Let's say that who's someone that Kirk doesn't like in this space? Let's say that Ed Right, Angle Sports, posted this exact same tweet. 

01:31:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Would you have responded to it. I don't think so. Like again, I think that I'm not going to lie. 

01:31:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I saw this. By the way, I have no issues with anyone posting whatever they want. It's a public forum Twitter and you post something and people don't like it, they can comment on it. That's the beauty of Twitter. It's why we love Twitter. I saw this. 

01:31:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I was like Kirk's going to get it. I honestly didn't get as much shit as you maybe would have thought, but yeah, whatever. But my favorite replies were people being like oh, parlaying player props like you're such a square, bet365 loves your account. 

01:31:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, bet365 loves your account. Those people don't get it. We can laugh at those. 

01:31:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, that was funny, but whatever yeah I get it shitting on me for this fair game. Were you seeking clout when you posted this? Did you want people to? 

01:32:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I was just honestly like like this was a a real, like a very big loss on that wrestle westbrook assist and yeah, I don't know I I thought I I thought it was funny when I got sent all the pictures but like, yeah, obviously if I was posting this I knew it would do engagement. I don't know if that was like really what I was. 

01:32:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I love to hear that company man content guy. 

01:32:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I knew it would do engagement when I posted again like I do think there's this weird thing of like people want everything to be so secret, like it is fun posting things and seeing what people have. And I agree, not everything should be posted and you don't want to be ruining edges, but again I really that's just. It's not a secret edge that 365 can really shut down. But that's my opinion and people have different ones. I'm going to. 

01:32:49 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I do it often, but they can like find the account, who had the parlay and X the account. 

01:32:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Or they can not allow you to they technically could. They could maybe do that. 

01:32:58 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Or there's something that you're grouping together here that they would like catch on. It's also Kirk Evans with. 

01:33:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
How many followers do you have on Twitter? Not many, yeah, I will say, because I've been in this position before where I post something and then people are like, why the fuck did you post that? And the reality is and I'm not speaking on Kirk's behalf maybe he went through this, maybe he didn't, but sometimes you just don't think. You literally have like a bad beat in sports and you're like, fuck, I could have won a lot of money and you just post it to Twitter as like you don't even really think about what you're doing. What's funny is, if you won, you wouldn't have posted it right? 

01:33:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, definitely not. That's what I mean. So it's like I would have won this, like however many, like hundreds of thousands in like privacy and silence, but I lost it. So now I'm showing you. Well, I think there's clearly some people in this space that are seeking like validation, engagement, whatever it might be. 

01:33:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But there's oftentimes where you don't you like I just post, I might just be at my desk and something happened. I don't think it through of like, oh, this is going to be like this highly engaging post or something I would say that I thought enough that I do not and I still maintain this. 

01:34:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I did not think that this would negatively benefit, negatively affect me at all, posting it in terms of like losing an edge. I do not think that and I still maintain that. And people in the replies didn't know. One person said there's a reason you didn't bet this at FanDuel. I had a very similar bet at FanDuel. People just were wrong in my opinion. But I get why people are saying that and I've posted, I've criticized similar things, so I get it. But whatever. 

01:34:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, that's going to be it for circle back this week. A reminder we do have a friday episode. We also got a thursday interview dropping this week as well, so you're going to want to set notifications. I do want to announce the winner of the swag bag giveaway from last week. The winner is at tom underscore pretends. Tom pretends email us, circles off at the hammer dot bet. We'll get your swag bag. We've got a pretty cool bet stamp sweater that's going to go in there as well. Pretty solid colors. We've got the red and yellow. There we go, that's going in. So email us, give us your details, mailing address, sizing We'll get that over to you. As a reminder, we're giving away a swag bag every single week here on Circle Back. Here's away a swag bag every single week here on circle back. Here's what you got to do this week. 

01:35:16
Three things. Number one sub here to circles off. If you're not subbed already, please make sure you do so. Second leave a comment down below. Could be about anything, doesn't have to be related to the swag bag. Third share this episode on any social platform. It's that easy. We're trying to grow our audience. Get it out there to the masses. Let other people know that this type of content exists because we are attracting a new following and we do want to continue to grow. So for the swag bag, sub to Circles Off. Leave a comment down below, share the show to any social platform and you are automatically entered in our draw for next week. And, of course, smash that thumbs up as well. The A-Team will be back next Tuesday.