00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Coming up in this Friday's episode of Circle Back. 

00:03 - Flup (Host)
I am the best college football better out there. I'm the best content creator out there. I'm the best in everything when it comes to college football. Proof's in the pudding. 

00:10 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I thought Rob's had one of the worst takes I've seen on this podcast. That's why I was so irate and angry towards it. 

00:15 - Flup (Host)
This kid is unemployed and lives with his parents. 

00:19 - Joey Knish (Host)
Let me tell you, my friend, I don't think you're ready for that, the, and I don't think you're ready for that. The kitchen is a little hot in this kitchen, baby. 

00:25 - Flup (Host)
This isn't a comedy show, right? We don't need comedic relief. 

00:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Disclaimer. The content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions. 

01:18
Circle back here on the circles of channel. It's part of the hammer betting network and it's presented by underdog. This is the show where we cover the latest and greatest stories from gambling Twitter and, as always, we have a loaded episode for you guys here today. We're talking about some sports books getting in some hot water. We're talking about, possibly, when you should and should not cash out a bet, and so much more. You're going to want to stick around for the full episode here with the A-Team. 

01:43
I am your host, jacob Gromenia, as always. In the top right corner, we have Jeff Nadeau. Bottom left, we have Chris Dierkus at Fluff no Light. In the bottom right, we have Joey Knish, and let's not waste any time, let's jump right into things with the show today. Our very own Jeff Nadeau talking big game on Twitter. He actually said this on our show last week but we had some more pressing matters so we didn't discuss it a lot. But you went to Twitter, jeff, and said I am the best college football better out there. I'm confident in what I do and how I do it. You're not me and never will be, and don't come in my mentions talking about. I'll challenge you unless you're someone in this business. So, jeff I mean it says it all there you believe you are the best in the business when it comes to CFB betting. 

02:30 - Flup (Host)
Yeah, I do. I think in a week where certain people were calling themselves the best, I thought it was important that I make it very clear in my presence that I am the best college football bettor out there. I'm the best content creator out there. I'm the best in everything when it comes to college football Proof's in the pudding. Time and time again I've made that clear, and other than maybe the guy below me, but you know he can challenge me whenever he would be at somebody in this business. 

02:58 - Joey Knish (Host)
You know, you know what this reminds me of. It's like, you know, when you turn on SportsCenter and you see those little kids that everybody's letting run to the end zone for free in the teams, it's like a make-a-wish thing. That's what I'm seeing. That was Nadeau's football season last year. Now he's feeling himself, he has a good year, his confidence is up and he wants to get into, you know, the big boys pool. 

03:24 - Flup (Host)
Well, that's not true. 

03:25 - Joey Knish (Host)
exactly he wants to step up to the next level and let me tell you, my friend, I don't think you're ready for that. The kitchen is a little hot in this kitchen baby, and I don't think in Lancaster they ain't got kitchens like this and you know I'll applaud you for, you know, wanting to, you know try and level up a bit, but I would say humbled is how Jeff Daydude is going to feel this season. 

03:48 - Flup (Host)
Well, how about this, joey? You can show your kitchen at Twitter and I'll show mine, and we can see who people like better. 

03:56 - Joey Knish (Host)
We'll have a Feinberg right If I'm an 18-team Feinberg. 

04:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Let us see the photos. Maybe we can talk about them on the Tuesday show. That would be great. 

04:09 - Flup (Host)
But it must be made clear it's not just the last year, it's the last four years, but all in all, uh, joey, maybe you and I can get something going, but yeah, in terms of all encompassed, I believe. Yeah, I'm very good at it. Uh, I, I could, I could say one better. 

04:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think I'm one of the best college betters in general when it's basketball or football so, uh, kanisha is the host on our hit the books channel here at the hammer, our college football channel. But uh, I do want to get fluff involved. Fluff, if I'm not mistaken, you do. 

04:33 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Uh, you do cfb betting as well yes, I mean more top down, so I wouldn't compare myself to any originator that's actually coming with their own lines, like Nadeau or Knish are. 

04:44 - Joey Knish (Host)
But you know, I'm assuming it's like basically batting Joey K stuff at half-point work. 

04:50 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Well, I'm actually getting real sharp stuff, not, joey? 

04:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
K stuff. 

04:54 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
But you know, I'm assuming Nadeau is being a little exaggeratory when he says this, because I've always felt the belief if someone feels the need to say they're the best, they're probably not the best well, that's true, I, and I will say it was partly because a certain other person said on a stream in front of thousands of people that they were the best, live better in the world. 

05:16 - Flup (Host)
Um, but no, then I thought about it and said, well, I am pretty good at it, but yeah again, unless you're somebody, stop dming me. And when I say somebody, I mean like you've been here longer than six months okay, so you'd be willing to go toe-to-toe again. 

05:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Somebody who's? 

05:32 - Flup (Host)
yes, you also have the game. A lot cannot be anonymous either. 

05:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Okay. Well, I would say, I mean, I don't know how much you're betting um, you don't. I'm not asking to share. You don't need to share if you don't want to, but there are people putting down huge numbers on college football does that make them good bettors though? If they have heavy impact on line movement, if sports Dave Portnoy bets hundreds of thousands of dollars on games. 

05:58
He's not good at gambling you're right, but if there is a group that is moving the number, that is a group or a person that commands respect and I would wonder how you feel you stack up to that. Fair enough. 

06:11 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
So I do want to add to that. I think money in betting is the end-all be-all. There are some exceptions. Portnoy is a great exception. Obviously, his money doesn't mean anything. But for the majority of people actually wagering, if you have a lot of money and you're betting, it typically means you've earned a lot through betting, which is your proven track record. Obviously, there's exceptions to that, but, as Jacob touched, if you're moving the line, you're respected. It's simple as that. And the more money you have, the bigger move and the bigger impact you have on a line. 

06:43 - Flup (Host)
Well, joey, let me know. And the bigger impact you have on the line. So I think, well, joey K, let me know. 

06:46 - Joey Knish (Host)
Listen, the details are being ironed out, it's worked up and this I just I hate that. This fall usually a joyous time for Nadeau, you know. Usually it's the end of his college season, his vibes are up, he's out having some Stellas and now he's going to be drowning in sorrows and, you know, in Joey K's dust. 

07:06 - Flup (Host)
Well, I would do that regardless as far as going out. But listen, Joey, I'll put my money where my mouth is. We'll see in a couple of months. All right, no problem. 

07:17 - Joey Knish (Host)
Flip, I got to ask you and this came to me as it was on the sheet, just on your opinion right there when you said how much like, let's say, on a college football weekend, how much of the handle and this is all, maybe the total handle. This is going to be a very granular question. It's not going to have a real answer. Do you think is sharp, respected money versus just generic square money? 

07:42 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Well, I mean, obviously it depends if it's a ranked game or a like, like extra game. An extra game, it's probably going to be 75, plus sharp money on it, and if it's a ranked game, I'm going to assume closer to 30, 25, maybe my, my predictions are way off. Um, I guess, even if it's 75 percent, that wouldn't even make sense, because how are they going to be profiting at that point? 

08:13 - Joey Knish (Host)
and it depends book to book too. Right, like obviously one book gonna. I mean we're almost like we're talking like the whole pie how much you know if it's all in yeah, after seeing these numbers out loud I think it might. 

08:24 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
They're stupid half half what I said for both of them. Um, I think on an extra game, 35, 40 percent and then a ranked game as much as 20 percent. And we've even saw, I've even seen like I recall there was like a big game it was like a usc a year or two ago where all the the market makers were standing pat at a number and all the wrecks, wreck books were, were off like a point and a half and you could just get like direct ARBs because there was so much. You saw the dichotomy between rec and sharp money. But I mean, I know there's players betting quite literally millions down on CFB, so there's a lot of money that's sharp in the market. 

09:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So Nudu asked for a challenge. Essentially, If anybody wanted to stack up against him, they had the opportunity to do so. A couple people had some replies here At. 

09:18 - Flup (Host)
Billy Bonesaw said I'm not sure why we're putting Billy Bonesaw on here. Billy Bonesaw is a fucking loser and has no value in this community whatsoever. The other two, they could talk. I'm aware you don't like Billy Bonesaw. Billy Bonesaw is a fucking troll loser. He should not be on here. 

09:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
At Tailgate. The Tailgate tent said sup, I guess, inciting a possible challenge. We also have Eddie who at walls, underscore Edwards says I was today's years old when I learned Jeff Nadeau, who was who I've been battling for numbers open to close the last 15 plus years. Might have to hang it up Tough, beat all the way around Crushers everywhere. Don't think that's very serious there, but I mean, like you said, you invite the challenge. So if anybody like, if people are talking, they have the opportunity to message you, they have the opportunity to go head-to-head. Is that correct? 

10:13 - Flup (Host)
Ask how many people have reached out. 

10:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
How many? I don't think any One Just one. 

10:21 - Flup (Host)
Okay, yeah, tailgate 10. I mean, he didn't really reach out, but he directed it. 

10:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
That's what I'm saying. Like a lot of people are talking shit. Listen the dude, with respect. I don't think you're the best college football better. I don't think I'm a good college football better, so I'm not going to do it. But if people really want to go at you, they have the opportunity to go head-to-head right. 

10:51 - Flup (Host)
Listen to head right. Listen, kish, I'm gonna give you a little gift. Just go grab a little toledo plus 11 and a half against kentucky week zero. 

10:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Okay, oh already, uh early they do release, yeah that'll be a 10, 10 and a half before we know it. So just get it early, okay. Okay, well, we'll have to see. Let us know in the comments down below if you know I do. I hope you win the bet, but I hope it closes like 12, just so it'd be funny. 

11:02 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
So a win-win like I get. Great, I gotta make fun of you. But you win the bet, but I hope it closes like 12. Just so it'd be funny. So it's a win-win, like I get great, I get to make fun of you, but you win your bet at least. 

11:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right. Before we go to our next topic here, a word from our presenting sponsor of the channel, underdog. All right, quick shout out to our friends over at Underdog, because if you've been watching the playoffs but you haven't been using them, then you're missing out on one of the best user experiences in the space. We've tried a lot of different apps over the years and Underdog just nails it. The interface is clean, fast and simple, but not in a watered down way. It's intuitive. You log in, you know exactly where to go and you can build entries in seconds without having to dig through five layers of nonsense. It's honestly one of those products where, the more you use it, the more you appreciate how well it's built. Whether you're playing casually or taking it seriously, it just works and you actually want to come back and use it again. We've also heard from a bunch of you and even a few sharp bettors who said the same thing. I didn't expect to actually like this. That says a lot. So if you haven't signed up yet is the time. Just click the link in the description, use code circles on sign up and that'll get you up to one thousand dollars in bonus credit as a new customer. Again. That is promo code circles, right with the link below. Check it out and let us know what you think we're betting. You'll be impressed. 

12:18
Huge conversations arose from fanduel looking to potentially implement a 50 cent transaction fee on every bet placed on its platform in Illinois on September 1st 2025. This is when it will begin. The company announced Tuesday. That is according to David Payne. Purdom, at David Purdom, says the transaction fee is in response to a recent tax increase on sports books in Illinois. We've talked about this already on Circleback, but specifically here, with FanDuel getting involved, and a couple of responses came in here, first of all from Jeff Benson of Circa at JeffreyBenson12, who says don't blame FanDuel, blame the regulators and politicians. And we have the ROI guy ROI guy123. 

13:00
This will have the biggest effect on small bettors and will either one cost small bettors and will either one cost small bettors a lot of money to push smaller bettors to unregulated offshore sites, or three cost smaller bettors to increase bet size and become bigger losers, so that the 50 cent matters less comparatively. Most likely some combination of all three. Maybe some gamble less because of this, but in my opinion that will be dwarfed by people who fall into one of those three above categories. If anyone at all cares about problem gaming, this is not the policy I would be supporting. So not necessarily going at FanDuel here or the Raiders, maybe like a combination of both. Benson wants to point the finger here at the Raiders, but let's start with you on this one, kanish. What did you make of the taxes coming into Illinois and books like Fandle, adding something like this a 50 cent transaction fee for every bet? 

13:48 - Joey Knish (Host)
Well, you know Flup hosted a space this week and had Captain Jack on, who I think is probably a you know, me and Jack gone back and forth on a few things over the years, but in terms of like regulation policy and taxation and stuff, I don't think there's anybody better out there to explain it and explain it in a concise format that even you know, a normie like me can understand. And I guess my biggest issue with it is this was you know a couple of politicians in Illinois that don't understand sports betting and don't understand the impact it would have and kind of the, the what I'll call the unintended consequences that this was gonna. It was kind of like a sneak sneak in the last minute. We don't think it'll impact too much, but they don't understand sports betting. And then they put this in there and now FanDuel is at a point where the most popular wager in all of betting right now is the small dollar SGP and this has a direct correlation negative impact to the small dollar SGP. Better, and it's ridiculous and I'll give the biggest concern I would have. 

15:03
And Henry over at no big buck hunter, uh, said this on the space and I it was like flop, you almost throw, like the point was so good it kind of like caught everybody in the space, like like, if this actually works without a lot of negative customer pushback or negative consequences, what's to stop other states from them implementing something similar, which I think would be bad for everybody, bad for FanDuel, bad for the better. So I'm hoping this crashes and burns and fails miserably, but I guess it's kind of we'll see what happens. 

15:40 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Yeah, I really love how FanDuel's handling this, for a multitude of reasons, and the first I want to give like a brief economic lesson. There's a concept called the Laffer Curve, which, where it's the tax rate that maximizes revenue for a government, and this is no laughing matter. Yes, and so you can't just tax things at 100%, because no one would work or no one would produce. So what is that optimal rate? In my opinion, the government and all these states are well past that, and this 50 cent additional wager bumps them up to effectively in the 50s for Illinois, which 50% I'm referring to and tax and GGR, which is ridiculous. It's hard to run a business. 

16:27
Fanduel DraftKings these companies aren't just printing money. There's a lot of cost and a lot of staff that need to go into this. Additionally, the reason why I think this is so good is it affects the smaller better and you might be thinking, well, shouldn't you care about them? Those are the kind of people that complain to the regulators. The $1,000 better probably doesn't care and he won't care about this. If he sees a 15% tax rate increase, he's not going to care. But if you put a 50 cent wager, which is 10%, on a $5 SGP, they're going to have a heart attack and they're going to complain, and Fandles made it very clear they don't want this policy. They want Illinois to take it back, and I think it's very logical. Get your customer base aligned with the real enemy here. 

17:16
The real enemy is not Fandles here it's Illinois, the state government, and the slippery slope is the thing that I'm most scared of. New York's been running around with the 51% tax on GDR. If everyone else has that and it works fine, everyone's going to want to go up there and then you can't have competition and you can't have new products. It becomes very hard to regulate. There's a middle ground here. I'm not saying we need to have no tax, or even 10% or 20%, but 25%, 30%, 35%. These are reasonable numbers and Fandle is fine with it. But this additional 50-cent wager is ludicrous and it's great on them to make it very obvious what their demands are and who the enemy is. I think they laid it out perfectly, very well executed. I hope Draft, hope drafting follows suit. When drafting's had their idiotic wager where they added a percentage, I thought that was stupid. 

18:11 - Flup (Host)
Fando's making it very clear and they're doing a good job anything from you to do this shows you yet again and this is really a problem that I have with the government in this country in general is that they're so far away from the actual normal person, right, they're so far in their ivory tower away that they don't even understand or get how real life really works for people. And they're so. They don't seem to understand anything. They dip their beaks into things. They have no idea what they're affecting or who they're affecting. I've talked about this with regulation. 

18:43
When you're regulating something, again, it's good for an industry, but it also creates things. Things are brought in that have no real bearing. We don't need them. They're either inconsequential or they're too much. There's no happy medium. A lot of the time, again, kanish was dead right. Putting your beak into something that you have no reason to put your beak into? They don't understand gambling. They don't understand anything. Putting your beak into something that you have no reason to put your beak into? They don't understand gambling. They don't understand anything. Regulation is good, but again, it's got to be uniformed across the board. There's got to be understanding of how it all works. This is just another photograph of us seeing that the government generally has no idea even what they're talking about or what they're looking into. 

19:21 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think a lot of people would have seen this up front and thought it was a scummy move by FanDuel. But it is just a survival tactic to maintain profitability and there is very large reason to believe that if Illinois were to not implement this tax, then this 50 cent transaction fee on all wagers just would not exist. Fanduel doesn't want to implement this. It is a case of that. They have to implement this in order to keep their business afloat. So hopefully regulators in this space can do a much better job of creating environment where people will want to bet in a regulated space or they will. They will move offshore. Uh, just before we move on here, like if people are moving offshore, they're like how much does this affect the livelihood of sportsbooks in Illinois and other places they follow suit? I'll ask you Flop. 

20:11 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I mean probably not a ton in the short term, but it could massively affect in the long term. 

20:18
And this is the thing that's so problematic and why I think Fandles doing the right thing here. Raising the tax rate will probably generate more revenue in the short term, but it massively fucks it up in the long term. So they need to show, like Fandle needs to show the regulators hey, this is a massive problem long term and yeah, the next quarter or the next year revenue might be boosted for Illinois, but instead of it increasing, like it probably would have been if they didn't implement this, it'll be decreasing afterwards because we'll have the effect of why bet with FanDuel when they have to have these policies, when you can bet offshore? And then everyone will go back to PPHs, et cetera, et cetera. Illinois won't get the tax revenue and people will be betting in unsafe practices rather than a regulated sports book like a FanDuel or DraftKings. People will be betting in unsafe practices rather than a regulated sports book like a FanDuel or DraftKings, so sure it might not impact them in the next three months, six months, but it will in the next three years for sure. 

21:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right, so we'll monitor that situation further on the channel. 

21:18 - Flup (Host)
Hopefully, you have to also ask yourself will other states start doing this? 

21:22 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Exactly, and this is why they need to. It's so important that they make a big stink about it. There's a reasonable tax rate 28% to 40%, something along those lines but this puts it well past in the space. Captain Jack was saying. This puts it over 50%. It's ridiculous. You can't run a business, and it's not just corporate tax. You get 50% and then you get corporate tax on top of it. It just hacks out the wazoo. It's impossible to run a business. 

21:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, so we'll monitor on the channel, see if anything changes. Hopefully Illinois can come to their senses. But we shift from one sportsbook to another. That's gotten in a little bit of hot water. Perhaps a little bit more justifiable in this case here for Bet365, because they sent this message to a better. They said hi, we are contacting you regarding bet ID blank placed at the odds of 180 on Tyler Anderson under four and a half pitcher strikeouts in a game between the Angels and the Red Sox. We've identified that this selection was placed at incorrect odds and, as such, in accordance with our rules, we'll be settled at the revised odds of plus 100. 

22:28
If you would like to cancel this bet prior to the start of the event, then please contact us. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience costs and this is from joke at joke, with four E's and an underscore. So this is what Bet365 does. Now they can just alter the lines of any plays they post. So basically, if they open a play at a bad price, they can change the odds to whatever they want. They left Tyler Anderson under 4.5Ks at plus 180 yesterday for at least 30 minutes too. How do we feel about this? I'll start with you, nudu. How do we feel about a sportsbook changing the odds after the bet has been placed? 

23:05 - Flup (Host)
well, and this is why, in the previous segment, no one's going to feel any sadness for fandle, right, because it's stuff like this. Not that they did this, but other books do. This is this is what they do, sadly. What are we betting on horses? Now the odds can change. They can fluctuate disgraceful. I you see this a lot. I'm gonna hope that they maybe rectified the situation with the better. I don't know if we, if we did, did anyone look? Did they follow up on it? 

23:31 - Joey Knish (Host)
So I'm going to add some and normally I would in most cases, agree with Nadeau stance but I'm going to add some very important context here that Jacob did not provide. Maybe we'll haveason on as out next week. If you know, he doesn't sharpen up, but clean it up a little bit up there. It's so. This joke character has 168 000 twitter followers. He runs a massive walk. He releases those plays in a discord. So what happens here is bet 365 doesn't just get hit with one or two or three bets at this price. He's releasing it to his massive discord and they're taking hundreds, maybe thousands of bets on this price, since they left it up for that long how about investigator kanish? 

24:24
look at this does that justify them doing this? Because I agree that's not a, you know, a quote-unquote mistake line. It's they left a stale lineup. But if joke himself just played this and it was just one bat, would it have been flagged? Would this have happened? I don't think so, my friend but does that? 

24:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
does that make it more acceptable that, because more people bet it Listen? 

24:46 - Joey Knish (Host)
I'm not here to be the moral police. I'm here to tell you what's happening in the business and what happens is. The joke is that he's selling plays to a shitload of people. The book got upset and gave him the finger, for all his clients got screwed. 

25:03 - Flup (Host)
I'd like to rectify this what I said, or revise what I said. I didn't know that about him, um, so I agree with what kinesh says. 

25:12 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Okay so what's tricky here is normally I've seen best 365 revise the odds after the event settled, which is just pure scum. At least here they gave him the option to just cancel the bet, but I need to know he had to have caught it pregame, right, right, that's. The thing is there has to be some amount of like. If he bet it at, say, 12 and the game starts at like 6 and they sent him an email at like five, okay, what are we doing here? That's ridiculous. If they caught it within like five minutes, ten minutes, okay, I can lean towards fine there. I don't like what they're doing, but I can understand it a bit more. I don't know those things. Investigator kanish, do we know those things? I'm looking to you. Do we know those things? I'm looking to you? Do we know how long before it was called? 

26:07 - Joey Knish (Host)
My firm has already disclosed all the information we're willing to. 

26:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Okay, so the post was made at 9.55 am Eastern time on June 2nd. I'll have to find the game in which Tyler Anderson started here, and then we can come up with a better idea of the timeframe here. It's possible that this wasn't caught until the next morning as well, based on the fact that it's at 9 55 AM. But let me just and. 

26:39 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I think also Kanish brought up an excellent point. There's a difference between the stake line and stale line. This looks like a stale line, which I agree is a shitty brought up an excellent point. There's a difference between mistake line and stale line. This looks like a stale line, which I think is a shitty thing to do to void. 

26:51 - Joey Knish (Host)
In practice. Is it a shitty thing for a book to do? Yes, I agree with that. It's an 80 cent difference. Should that be absolutely like a justifiable void? 

27:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
No, so this was sorry go ahead. 

27:04 - Joey Knish (Host)
I'm just saying that the guy's joked actions himself and his business model then leads to this outcome, Because if you're just I'm here by myself and I bet that line. 

27:20 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I don't like that argument either, though, because I can't tell you the number of times I've gone to like a kiosk or like the counter and I want to bet. And I'm like, I want to bet X dollars. I'm like, no, we can only take less than X, so I bet that Then they don't move the line. And I'm like, so someone else could come up and bet it. If you're not moving the line, on a click you open yourself up. I don't feel any remorse for you. This argument that a thousand people book make better, I mean what? What? I agree. 

27:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I agree, uh, so so for context, this was posted at 9 55 am eastern time. The this is when joke posted it. This was the day of the game, so this was. I would assume this was caught relatively quickly, so anybody who bet it had the option to cancel the wager. That being said, there isn't always a guarantee that you're going to be on the sportsbook, so I don't know, it's tough to say. I think it probably would have been better to void the wager if they feel as though it was a canceled bet. 

28:22
What's that? What time did the game start? The game feel as though it was a canceled bet. What's that? What time did the game start? Um, the game started, uh, I'm not, I'm necessarily if you don't, if you don't know, it's okay, but I I would okay. 

28:33 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
So I'm just assuming this is like an evening game yeah, if that's the case, then I actually feel a little bit more okay with what best 365 did here. I think we need like a clearer line on what's a stale and what's an error line. This probably is stale, which I don't think they should should be voiding here. But if you're giving them eight hours notice in the morning, how bad is it really? It's, you know, not the greatest thing, but it's not the worst thing they've. They've done plenty more shitty things, believe me started at uh, I think uh 705. 

29:12
Okay, yeah, so they gave. They gave pretty a while, like nine hours of notice, you're not? 

29:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
guaranteed like, depending who you are, you're not guaranteed to be back on the app at any point that day, so you could miss this. 

29:25
Sure sure, but if it was like one hour, I would have zero remorse for like a bet. I'm just wondering, like would you prefer to have this voided so you have the option to bet it at plus 100? Or would you rather just have it at plus 100? I would feel like in most instances, especially that big of a swing, I would say I would rather just not have my money on something that would likely be now minus ev. 

29:44 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Well, it's funny because you probably think that way and most and most of us probably think that way. But most recreational bettors are like the side is the side he's, he's going under, I don't care what price. 

29:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I suppose he, by the way, he didn't go under. He had five strikeouts in the game. Not that the result matters, but the bet, the bet loss anyways. Um, it's a comic one, I mean. I'm sure we've had, we've had experiences like I've had canceled bets which, like, are understandable. This is probably in the range of such a swing where I'm thinking could it be just a stale line? I would lean towards that direction. It's possible it was a anale line. I would lean towards that direction. It's possible it was an error line. 

30:25
But also I agree with Fluff here. There are sportsbooks that 10 bets will make them change the odds. If 10 bets come at the same time, they will change the odds. They will at least do something to combat the volume that is getting put in. If you're right, kanish and hundreds, maybe thousands of people bet this and it still stayed up for half an hour. I completely agree with what Fluff said Do better bookmaking, because how can you not recognize that this is getting absolutely blasted, especially on lower limits in the morning? I think that this is a mistake that 365 should have just owned and learned from. But I'd be curious what anybody else thinks in the comments on this one. 

31:07
Anything to add, guys? All right, we can move to our next topic, then this one. I mean, we've had some polarizing discussion, but this one might be one of the bigger, biggest ones we've had. So, um, monitoring a situation here with a better who had a 13 parlay, where they bet on the Dodgers to win the World Series, the New York Liberty to win the WNBA championship, the Philadelphia Eagles win the Super Bowl which of all won, and then now the Oilers and Thunder to win their respective championships in the NHL and NBA. This is a bet placed at plus. Is that plus two million2,000 odds? So huge payout $270,000 payout potentially if this does win. Oilers and Thunder now down 2-1 in their respective series. The cash out currently sits at $60K. Before these finals started, before Game 1 of the NHL and NBA Finals, the cash out was at $145,000. Now it's at $60,000. So complicated scenario here. 

32:09
Parlay Bay had this to say about the situation at this present point I would have took the $100,000 when it was offered People saying it's a huge difference between $100,000 and $270,000. But a difference between $0 and $100,000 would feel way worse. So, Kanish, you've talked a bit in the past about the difference between. You know, going bust from, let's say, like 100,000. But like, the difference between that is huge compared to the difference between 100,000 and 20,000. I don't know if that's the exact amount of numbers you've used or anything but kind of goes in line with what you said previously. That being said, let's go to you on this one views or anything but kind of goes in line with what you said previously. That being said, let's go to you on this one how do you think this situation should be handled? 

32:50 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yeah, no, it was like just a point on your quality of life. If you're not, your net worth is zero compared to a million versus a million and two million. You know, zero and a million is huge, a million and two million is very negligible. With that said, I think there's two ways to look at this. If he took it before the series, or he takes it for the $100,000, is he going to be costing himself some EB? Obviously yes, but when you're looking at this type of wager and he placed it for $13, which leads me to believe, then the younger guy it's probably you know he's got. 

33:27
His bankroll is not very high Like I would think $100,000 or $145,000 is a significant amount of money to him, maybe life impactful for him. So I would not kill the guy in this case if he decided to take the cash out then or the $100K cash out. With that said, now I think what you really don't want to do is what I'll call panic cash out, where now you know, especially you know in the Thunder series or something that where you're down 2-1. I mean, some people online might have thought the Pacers were live. People in the chat thought that you know, okc was a generational opportunity. I don't want to get too involved in that, but I think now you almost got to ride it. It's almost like the window is passed now and you've put yourself behind the eight ball, and maybe I let it go at this point. I'm interested to hear what your guys' take is, though. 

34:29 - Flup (Host)
This kid is unemployed and lives with his parents. He's 24 years old. Come on, man that's good. 

34:37 - Joey Knish (Host)
It's fair context. I'm kind of shocked you didn't take 145 then no shit. 

34:44 - Flup (Host)
I mean, it was a 13 wager. This is one of those things you do where you just happen to have 13 after you're like you know what? What am I gonna I going to do with $13? Let's just do this. The kid went to Binghamton university, just graduated school. I mean that's a great start in life. 145 K what are we doing here? 

35:03 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right, so well, up was the one who brought this up Really wanted to talk about this. What's what's the sentiment here? 

35:18 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
so the thing that bothered me so much here is people are like so quick to say cash out 100k. Well, the cash out got to 100k. So like at one point the cash out was 10, at one point it was 20, at one point it was 30, 40, etc. Etc. Where were those people then like should he cash out when it was $30,000, $40,000, et cetera, et cetera? Where were those people then? Should he have cashed out when it was $10,000?, $20,000? What number did it become? Okay, he's an idiot for not cashing out. I actually agree with both of you guys here. He should have cashed it out pre-series at $145,000. But he probably should have cashed it out before the other event when it was like 50,000. 

35:57 - Flup (Host)
Would you agree, though, once the Super Bowl ended and the Eagles came right, do we know what his cash out was then? Yeah, we got a lot of time there. 

36:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But that's a long time. Like the Oilers were not in as good of a spot, the Thunder were favorites at the time, but once it was at 145,. 

36:13 - Flup (Host)
What are we doing here? Three series at 145. 

36:17 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
But Nunu, my point is, it was at 130 before 145. No, I know. So like at what number? 

36:26 - Flup (Host)
should he have cashed it out at? Yeah, that's again, you go I think I'd have to know context. Yeah, clearly he has had no real issue or interest in cashing out up until probably got to that point. I mean now. 

36:41 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I also want to say I thought about reaching out to him because I would have tried to buy his wager and a little bit of a better cash out. So if he ends up seeing this, please shoot me a DM. We can maybe work out some business and maybe he gets a little bit better offer what would you offer him? I don't. I don't know the math right now. 

36:58
I I'd have to do it, but I would wager well yeah, from what I for what I can tell is draft kings typically takes 30 off what the true fair would be. I would have probably given him. I would have probably taken 15 offense rather than 30. So I would have probably given him I would have probably taken 15% offense rather than 30. So I would have given him a nice discount. 

37:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I can get in touch with him. 

37:19 - Joey Knish (Host)
They're just nobody like the cash as you laid out. Flop, I think people, even when they're in this scenario, the cash-out option is usually the worst option. You can almost hedge it. You know, like if you went to and I know this, listen, I know the kid's young he probably doesn't have a ton of cash laying around, but you know, I mean you can go to your parents or something, and I don't know, take some equity out of the house. 

37:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I don't know if he could hedge this. This would be. 

37:54 - Joey Knish (Host)
I mean Nadeau said he's 24, living in his parents' home. You think this guy has got a six-figure stand. I mean sell it on the Marcellite flop or something. 

38:00 - Flup (Host)
According to the Las Vegas Review-Journal, he said he hedged 50 CAD Caesars with the help of his father, but didn't provide details. 

38:08 - Joey Knish (Host)
Oh that changes everything that changes a lot. Why are we doing Jacob's job today? I don't know. This is the most Canadian episode we've had in a row. We got no context on anything. Me and you are having to do it live. 

38:24 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm a man of many hats within this company. It's difficult to dedicate my entire life to just this show. 

38:31 - Flup (Host)
But I mean you look at also, like his quotes on if he wins, going to max out the 401k, max out the Roth out of the emergency fund, have fun, maybe a little vacation, bring the boys out to dinner, bring my family at the dinner, go to Vegas. I mean, again, my guess is he's a $50, better probably. 

38:50 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I mean obviously I mean he bet $13 on this. 

38:56 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Okay, so I'll put myself in this guy's shoes. I don't live with my parents, but I'm 25 years old. 

39:03 - Joey Knish (Host)
I think we're all in a minute. You're an employee. 

39:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
This keeps up. Sure, I am employed. By the way, this is my job. If anybody wasn't aware, $145k we're all, all in agreement. Probably would have taken that. As flub said, though, at what point do you start to like take stuff so, like I live in an apartment, I'm thinking like once, once it's beyond 50k, that's when you have to have a serious like conversation of like this is a down payment on a house, like this is this is life-changing stuff here when the finals started, you gotta, you gotta cut loose. 

39:32 - Flup (Host)
I don't care who you are Jacob. 

39:33 - Joey Knish (Host)
You have enough I'll call it one sense and two connections to be like, yeah, I would Listen. 

39:41 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm not cashing this out. Can you loan me? 

39:44 - Joey Knish (Host)
$100,000, so I can hedge this. 

39:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I could post this. I could post that ticket in a group chat and get a lot more than like 60K what it is right now. I could probably get that into group chat and get a lot more than like 60K what it is right now I could post. 

39:54 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I could probably get that done within a minute, I think, but I think what people are missing here is does this better with making a bet like this? Even understand he's losing expected value. I mean this argument people are coming, you don't even know what that means. Man Right, exactly, so to say like, oh, you don't cash it out. 

40:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I've seen some comments from sharper people, like he's losing expected value. He doesn't know what that fucking means. I mean, what are we talking about here? Who cares? At a certain point, to like, the expected value doesn't outweigh, like the, would it be the opportunity cost of your decision? Like, think of, like, how, like, if he loses everything and he goes back to zero here? 

40:36 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Yeah, no, this reminds me of the coin flip question, right? I remember she was like would you rather flip a coin for a billion or take 50 million right now? Yeah, I'm never flipping that coin. Why would you do that? That's insane. Yes, I'm hunting hundreds of millions in expected value, but why would you do that? 

40:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, it's a perfect example. So for me, at 50K, that's when like a serious conversation would have to begin. I mean you could look at the matchups but even just like just to not have the sweat, even like OKC, who have been favored so heavily all this entire way, like to think to have to sit through OKC Denver Game 7, essentially with like 50k riding on it, it makes me sick to my stomach even thinking about it. So I, at that point, I probably strongly considering cashing. 

41:22 - Flup (Host)
I'm gonna come to you from the sports betting content creator not the sharp, not that I'm sharp, but not from these guys points of view. This dude will never have this feeling again. It will never happen to him again, ever. Okay, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta get something out of it, man, I mean right, you're both down to one, I would. 

41:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I would take 60k at this point. I think yeah, I mean you know it's a sunk cost, like you know you do you just say that's it. It's a sunk cost. This is what. This is the situation now. You can't go back, you can't change it. This is according to investigators to do. 

41:56 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
He sounds like he already got 50k locked up. I mean so if? 

42:01 - Flup (Host)
if that's the case, it seems like he doesn't need to cash out uh, but the sad part of it is, like flop said, I mean when, when this cash is out, or whenever he, if he wins, he's not going to get the amount, cause they're going to take 30% right off the top Right. 

42:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So I've had. I would. I don't imagine this is plus TV. I have had scenarios where a big future is plus TV. To to cash out because I don't know the sports. This is definitely not that I agree. Yeah, I would say to this guy there are people who will buy this for more than $60K, sell this position. He has hedged those, so you've got to work in the math as well. They are a $50,000 hedge, so how much money do we think he's guaranteed for himself already with the hedge? 

42:50 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yeah, but I'd be interested because it wasn't just a clean hedge of like one series price or something. 

42:55 - Flup (Host)
Yeah, he didn't speculate a lot. 

43:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
What if he messed up? 

43:00 - Joey Knish (Host)
the hedge and lose the hedge. Yeah, or he'd parlay the other series. 

43:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
How could he have possibly hedged this to guarantee profit? 

43:05 - Flup (Host)
That's what I don't understand. He didn't sell it. 

43:09 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
What he could have done is he could have bet like 10,000. 

43:12 - Joey Knish (Host)
No, no. 

43:16 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
What you could do is you can bet both the Panthers and the Pacers. So yes, and it's a little bit of a more complicated math question Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

43:26
If the Pacers win, you win something, and if the Panthers win, you win something, so that you cover both scenarios but you're going to lose the other one. It'll work out, there's an easy something. And if the panthers win, you win something, so that you get you cover both scenarios but you don't lose the other one. It'll work out. There's this easy way to do it. Yeah, I don't. I don't want to describe it right now because I don't know off the top of my head my question for this kid is like why does he want this out there? 

43:44 - Flup (Host)
I've never understood this about these types of people I mean, who wouldn't want this? He's not getting any cloud. Like he has no follow. Like he, what would be the? I don't understand the point of why you would do this oh, come on. 

43:54 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I mean, I mean, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. 

43:57 - Flup (Host)
If it's me or you and him, I understand. 

44:00 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
This kid's a nobody like but, like the dude, he's loving it right now. You see him excited. He gets to talk about it. 

44:06 - Joey Knish (Host)
He loves a notoriety like he's never drunk off the cloud here, maybe I gotta figure out. Is he ever gonna have this opportunity again? 

44:16 - Flup (Host)
no, well, you know, kanish, maybe I gotta re-discuss and look at who I'm hanging out with, because I don't want people knowing this type of shit. 

44:23 - Joey Knish (Host)
Uh, if you know what I mean, I don't want to be I understand that aspect of it, um, but I don't think he's thinking that. He's thinking oh, I posted this ticket, look how much attention I get. 

44:36 - Flup (Host)
Well, I followed him. Let me see. If he gets back to me, I'll send him to you. 

44:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Okay, let's finish this. What would you do in this position? I would sell the position to somebody who wants to buy it for more than the current cash out of $60K. Let's say you couldn't do that. I would take the 60k cash out. What do you guys think? 

44:56 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I think this is the right option, and when it's something no one's talking about yet he's got to pay taxes on this. They and they have a 24 withholding automatically right, what would you personally do right now? Flop I, I would um, I would hit the cash out in either the cash out button or, if I can get an offer for better. 

45:16 - Joey Knish (Host)
I'm letting it ride. 

45:19 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Is that coming from your? 

45:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
position, or is that putting you in his shoes? That's in my shoes, okay, in his shoes. 

45:25 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
You have to answer it from obviously in like Flop obviously would let this play. 

45:29 - Joey Knish (Host)
I just asked you, instead of in your position, what would you do? 

45:32 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Oh, okay, fine In my position. 

45:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm letting it ride In his position. What are you doing? Let's rephrase it. 

45:38 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
In his position. I'm absolutely cashing out. You have to. 

45:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Kiddish, you agree? 

45:44 - Joey Knish (Host)
No, I'm letting it ride, girl. What? 

45:46 - Flup (Host)
about you, nadeau yeah. 

45:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I would have gotten out of it at 145, but but in this that's gone 60k now. 

45:54 - Flup (Host)
Yeah I mean I I would call flop on telegram and and we'd figure it out all right, let us know the comments, what you again I'm trying to that's a great point by him. I'm trying to. I can't really avoid it, but I'm gonna try to get a little less on something. So I'll talk to him, he'll help me with it. 

46:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right, so we'll see what ends up happening in this situation. Perhaps we can talk about it once again on this channel. Before we go to our next topic, we're going to promo one of our other channels here at the Hammer Folks. It's your boy, joey. 

46:24 - Joey Knish (Host)
K from Hit the Books, the number one college football show in America, in all of North America my man, brad Powers, riding with the co-host, joey Kanish. We want to see you this fall back with college football picks, plays. Get on that YouTube channel like subscribe, get the notis up. We will be back this spring, this summer, this fall for all the college football content you can want. Joey K sent you there, baby, and come check us out on Hit the Books. 

46:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Up. Next we're talking a little bit about Bet Bash and the seminars have been posted and have made rounds on gambling Twitter and a lot of people are pretty upset. Bet Bash, their Twitter account, posted our seminar schedule has been released 24 seminars and six live podcasts Circle back, by the way, we'll be featuring. Anyways, designing the seminars and schedule for Bet Bash is no easy task. This is now spanky talking. I look back at my 25 plus year career and attempt to put myself in the shoes of the novice, the enthusiast, the up and comer, the pro and the super pro to try and build a blended program that makes everyone happy. Hope. You guys have some tough choices. So a lot of these seminars, by the way, do happen in unison, so you have to pick and choose which ones you do go and attend and listen to. But then some people were upset about some of the choices. Some of the choices included Elf is featuring on a live betting seminar with some notable, very notable bettors. As much as you know, there's a claim of being the best in the world. We maybe don't agree with that, but there's also one that features GRP wins and Matt Zilbert, which I think is one that people have targeted the most Chinamaniac. A sharp bettor said this I hope Spanky booked the biggest conference room for GRP and Zilbert because this is going to be the most popular event at Bet Bash. Spanky replied and said this seminar is a hot topic. One side is screaming this is going to be great to watch. I can't wait. The other side is screaming Spanky, how could you insult your audience with this seminar? To the happy people thanks for the support. I hope you have a good time. To the angry, disappointed people chill out. There are four other options for you to choose from during that time slot. When you decide to create a conference with 30 unique pieces of content, I'll happily support you. 

48:37
Spreadopedia and Ferris weren't really pleased. This one, ferris B, underscore 86, said BetBash is always great, but I cannot imagine how low an opinion you have to have of your customers to offer some of these sessions. Spreadopedia another sharp better, said I saw the sessions everyone is talking about and it is one of the few times in gambling where I question myself and think are these the people I want to associate with? Is this a good use of my, of my time in life? The answer to all three is no, no and no. Uh, dennis montoro said, is elf on a panel with one of the biggest bet of our time? Or is that a different john wilson, jeff b? The fact that I have to go to a GRP seminar instead of the SGP one is both annoying and frustrating. And Trav at hehateme200 says Spanky, turning BetBash into kind of a joke with some of these expert panels. Have any of us ever attended BetBash? I personally have been. Have you guys gone? 

49:28 - Joey Knish (Host)
I was there last year. 

49:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So I guess we'll have to go to you then on this one. Kanish, Did you have a problem with any of these seminars getting posted and the people that are on these seminars, the speakers? 

49:40 - Joey Knish (Host)
Well, let me phrase it like this, and this is not, this would not be your BetBash marketing promo, but I'm not a big seminars guy. To me, I think the point of going is more than networking, the meeting people to see, like the seeing people you work with in the industry. I listen, I understand some of the frustration out there. Um, where I would caution Spanky a little bit is, you know, like the MIT Sloan conference used to be, like the it almost used to be before BetBash existed, where, like sharp betting, people went, they, they met up and stuff, and then Sloan the content of the conference. I'll call it like jump the shark a little bit and they went a little bit I don't know a little bit crazy, and that conference has kind of declined in popularity. 

50:26
I don't think that Bash is at that realm or at that peak of that realm or at that peak of that. It's just he seems to have, in wanting to grow the conference, kind of expanded it out to maybe a little bit outside the radius of what's I don't know real, what's relevant or what's realistic. In the end, though, if you got a big problem with it, just just don't go to the seminar. So I don't know that's not really the reason. Again, for me that's like I'll be there this year. How many of those am I going to attend? I've got to be honest with you. It's not that many. It may be zero, so I don't really care that much. But maybe others who are really looking to you know, want to are invested in them or just that are a little frustrated. 

51:15 - Flup (Host)
I guess I do kind of understand the point. And look, I do think and I've discussed this I don't think it's anybody here, but there are a lot of pretentious individuals in this space that say these things like they're better than people. And look, if you don't want to go to it, don't go to it. That said, I do kind of wonder like I don't understand the point of zilbert and grp honestly, like I it's. 

51:36
It's kind of like it's just like comedic relief type of thing for everybody to have a laugh at how ridiculous it could be, but the thing is, both of those two believe that this is like they're there because they're really good at betting on the nfl. I don't even know, matt, they were better than that. 

51:52 - Joey Knish (Host)
You know what. What I'm saying I think that's part of kind of the humor in it is that, yes, they believe it there. So I can see both sides of the argument but also he hate me. 

52:02 - Flup (Host)
I'll continue to wait for your response. You called one of these individuals a blankophile. You didn't respond to who you were talking about. 

52:19 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I don't know what that was about Weird response by you. You haven't responded either, and when I asked you about it, that said I'll wait. Yeah, I think these panels I understand the point that it's like disrespectful, because BetBash was supposed to be about learning and you don't learn anything from Zilbert and GRP. With all due respect, I find them very entertaining, but they're not elite betters, they're not even probably winning betters. I say probably cause I can't, I can't know for certain. So when I, when I see like ADR, hold on. 

52:47 - Flup (Host)
Is that without the COVID season, or no? 

52:51 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Yeah, exactly Exactly. We cannot make a definitive statement. Therefore, we will not. Yes, when I see adr talking about how to scale a business, wow, like what a legendary seminar, that's one I want to go to. When I see judah forking talking about sgps, that's what I want to go go to. And then to put them on the same panel with like GRP and Zilber, it's almost disrespectful. It's like you can't even put them in the same sentence. They're such different levels of a better. Adr might be one of the best bettors of all time and he's giving a seminar. Grp was betting $1,000 a game and bet like 24 games games last year. What are we doing here? 

53:37 - Flup (Host)
well, you know, I guess I do see kind of where some of these guys are coming from. Like what flop saying like when I related to like the stuff that I do in the mob genre, like I built something strong over four years. This would almost be like putting me on a panel and then putting some fucking guy with 200 followers you know that just started his channel a few months ago, it's, I think it is, and especially he made a good point. Uh, kanish about this has kind of taken the place of maybe at other conferences where most of it in fact 90 of it is strong, really good seminars. This isn't a comedy show, right? We don't. We don't need comedic relief, like there's no need for it. It's just a kind of a waste of time To Spanky's defense here. 

54:17 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I think he's doing a good job with this. I said some. I was a little heated and I said some things that I've bashed back, but I'm probably going to be going To his point. You can just skip the seminar. Like, I will be going to Judas. If I do go, I'll be going to Judas seminar. I won't be going to the Zilbert and GRP one. Like there's seminars where I'm not going to get value on and I just won't go to them. Yes, but it's like it's disrespectful to the audience and to the other panel members. I see that. I see the argument as well. 

54:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I won't be at that seminar either, unless Rob essentially forces me to go Threatens to fire you for that, and even then we'll have to have a conversation. But I think there's a lot of people complaining about it. I think it's going to be a very popular seminar and I think a lot of people will be in attendance at that seminar. So that could be where the thought process is coming from, from spanky, because, like if if you have such a problem with it, don't go to it, but like if there's so many people that are at it, there's clearly a demand for it. So, you know, is spanky trying to branch out and see how it works? Maybe that's the goal here and if it works he's probably going to continue doing it. 

55:30
I could see, like nadu made a good point, kind of bringing it like a situation where he would feel aggrieved and think like, okay, this doesn't really make sense and you wouldn't feel like it. There's as much prestige in in getting selected to to do a seminar or getting asked to do a seminar. But I think people are. I think the bottom line spanky is thinking people are going to be at this one and there's a chance this could be one of the most popular panels. That happens at Bet Bash. 

55:57 - Flup (Host)
But I guess my thing is, when you open up the goal, when you do content, a lot of the time is to find new people that are going to come to something. Are people? Is there anyone coming to this that is coming for that reason. Right, right, right, I could understand. 

56:11
Is the difference between me going or not going, the fact that this, that's what I'm saying like I could understand a thought of and I'm not saying that they're going to do this, but if you were to bring like taylor mathis types right to us, I could see where five to ten people might come to it, just because they want to meet taylor mathis, you know, I'm saying yeah, like well, who's coming to see Matt Zilber? Nobody at that conference would be there because of him. 

56:34 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I love GRP's account. I think he's hysterical. I would love to meet him. 

56:40 - Flup (Host)
It would be a selling point to me to meet GRP Something as you Over under two people extra that are going just to meet GRP Over. I legitimately think over. Really, you think there's more than two people? Wow, he is quite a character. 

57:01 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I don't think he's winning better. He can attack me for that take, but he is hilarious. I love his account. I love his Twitter account and if I'm at Bet Bash, I would want a picture and a handshake with GRP you're going to be having breakfast with him one day at the conference are you going to try to? Be so lucky if I'm lucky exactly, I might not be high enough up the totem pole for GRP to get that privilege yeah, we'll see how it goes. 

57:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'll be there so we'll have a lot of the Hammers employees. Uh, I'll be there, so we'll have a lot of the the hammers uh employees there. Rob will be there as well. So, uh, we'll see how it goes and we can report on it live from bet bash and we'll certainly have some fun content you should be subscribed for when we're at bet bash as well, and everything in between. 

57:46
All right, uh, we're bringing back this segment return fire not necessary for every show that we do, but in instances where it's requested we bring it back, and the request came from flip this one. This is in response to the lead segment that we had on the Tuesday show, where we spoke about AI and if AI could overtake professional bettors and there was a conversation going on between Rufus extraordinarily sharp bettor, going up against an AI in 2025. But then the conversation shifted a little bit into what about Rufus versus an AI in 2032? And Flop your anger. I think anger is even underselling it. You were irate, potentially, about how we handled this situation here, because a retired donator at NFL Pinnacle Beat said here uh, because retired donator at nfl pinnacle beat said will there be an ai by 2032. That that takes just a prompt. Make me a good golf pricing, slash betting model and outperforms 2025. Rufus, 55 of the votes say no. Uh, we agreed with that on the show. You heavily disagree, so go ahead yes, so a couple things. 

58:53 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I was very upset listening to that. I thought rob's had one of the worst takes I've seen on this podcast. That's why I was so irate and angry towards it, because they fundamentally misunderstood the question. They kept saying you guys kept saying, oh, rufus will have 2032 ai. No, it's compared to 2025. 

59:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He doesn't get the next seven years so I'll I'll concede that in that moment we all misunderstood the question. 

59:20 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Yes, but that was the entire. The question isn't like will ai be better than rufus? Ai will never be better than rufus because rufus gets access to ai. Yeah, the question is, how fast will the development of AI be that? Would it be actually better than? 

59:36
And he picked Rufus because Rufus is likely one of, if not the best, golf better in the world right now, and I have to say that I've seen AI move over the last two, three years, even using it three years ago, compared to now, it's it's night and day for for this. I'm in this Calcutta for the NBA playoffs and I built a future sim with uh, with AI, and if you asked me to do this three years ago, it would have taken me 50 plus hours. I did it in like four with AI. It was incredible. If that speed continues in the next seven years, I find it hard to believe that 2032 AI doesn't smoke Rufus in 2025. And I would further relate this to do we think a winning golf better in 2025, maybe a weaker winning golf better is beating Rufus numbers in 2015? I would say almost certainly yes. 

01:00:29
There's been so much improvements, so much technological advancements in terms of data and how people think that same concept's got to be applied to AI. I don't know how people would think the 2032 AI doesn't smoke Rufus in 2025. We're talking about seven of the most influential years in technological advancement in human history. It's going to be phenomenal. Now, will Rufus's numbers in 2032 be much better than AI in 2032? Yes, because he's going to be able to use it and help. So I think you could type in chat GPT in 2032 or whatever the best GPT is, make me a good golf model and it could get output better. I think it's very likely to happen. 

01:01:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So yeah, again going back, I think, recognizing the question, I would have changed my answer. I don't I won't speak for anybody else that was there, but yeah, I agree that much of a difference. That was a good question. I think we took out of context. So maybe good to have this on return fire. So we'll see when this segment comes back again. Let's go to our next topic here. I believe this is our last one here before the chopping block. Yes, it is. 

01:01:40
We have Captain Jack Andrews, who called out Sean Monaghan of Odds Jam for allegedly copying his videos. I say I would prefer to not have to use that word, but I'll use that word allegedly copying his videos. I say I would prefer to not have to use that word, but I'll use that word Allegedly copying his videos. So Captain Jack Andrews of Unabated posted clips of him speaking in one of his YouTube videos and then a clip of Monaghan speaking in one of his YouTube videos, and the script was very, very similar. Rufus said this this dude has just been creating carbon copies of your videos for years. This is straight up plagiarism. Character comment Alex Monahan. I'm sorry, I said Sean Monahan earlier. It's Alex Monahan. Sean Monahan, either current or former NHL player, my apologies, alex Monahan of Odds Jam. 

01:02:31
Captain Jack Andrews said I guess you could call this steam chasing views. Be sure to stick around for the type of the copy too, and you could see there is a typo. Kind of reminds you of when, like a dictionary will make a fake word and put it in their dictionary just to see if somebody else copies them. But pretty good evidence here and even further evidence by the thumbnails being used. Captain Jack said imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness. 

01:02:59
And it's thumbnail for a video by Unabated which says sports books tricked you. And it's got like a mousetrap with a bunch of sports book logos. It says how they trick you. And then Alex Monaghan posted 10 ways sports books trick you with a thumbnail with the mousetrap and the sportsbook logo that says how they fool you instead of how they trick you. And then there was a video where Captain Jack posted top five worst bets in a sportsbook Exact same title, down to the capitalization of worst by Alex Monahan, of worst by alex monahan. So in my opinion, um, this is a very clear plagiarism and very clearly he's copying. This is like what an absolute scum of a move here. Uh nadu, your content creator. Have you ever experienced anything like this? 

01:03:51 - Flup (Host)
yeah, I have this going on right now. I've made hundreds of videos on mafia figures, many that no one's ever talked about, and all of a sudden they're starting to pop up on other content creators' feeds. I'm also seeing that the thumbnails are very similar. Look, I look at it like this there's very little I can do about it. Quite frankly, youtube's policies on this stuff is very difficult to do anything about. Now, luckily, in this space, as far as sports betting, you can make this public and put it out there. 

01:04:19
And look, alex Monahan struggling mightily on YouTube. He's trying to throw stuff at the wall and I always think of it like this you can try to copy me. You're not going to ever be me. Like I said on that other tweet, there are certain things that I feel I do well and I think I'm the draw. You could try to do the same things, but you're not going to be the same draw. So there's very little they can do. But this goes on all the time. And, look, I think you have to do. If you're in a certain space, you have to look at what's working for other people, right, maybe you take an idea. But again, straight up, reading what they're doing is wild. I I'm not sure that the people that do what I, that that are doing to me, are doing that, but yeah, moynihan is is blatantly stealing. 

01:05:00 - Joey Knish (Host)
but there's very little you can do about this yeah, I think uh, captain, when he came on the spaces he also uh by you know great question from joey gay uh alluded to that a little bit more in the details, uh, and kind of went into some of the granularity even in regards to the sale and why he's still doing some of this stuff. My man, I'll be honest with you, he drives me insane, like in an annoying way in many different. I mean credit to him. He built up a product and was able to cash out on that, but a lot of the tactics he uses and some of the other things to promote Oz Jam and that obviously he doesn't have a lot of what I'll call business ethics in the way he goes about things, and so, to be honest, I was hoping the cap would stick it to him a little more than I think he plans on doing. But you know what, that's easy for me to say. 

01:06:01 - Flup (Host)
This guy made a ton of money right With Ajian right. Yeah, I've always wondered this, because, again, I'm in it. If I was a multimillionaire right by selling a company like that, the last fucking thing I'd want to do is sit in front of a fucking screen and do content. Why don't you want to beat somewhere? You're missing a key point. 

01:06:23 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yeah, there's some context here. Go ahead, Blup. 

01:06:27 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
He didn't sell it for $160 million, he sold it for $80 million and he gets an additional $80 million if they get more sales. $80 million is a lot. 

01:06:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But he gets another $80 million. 

01:06:39 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Right, that's the point. Yes, he could go to a beach now, or he could grind it out for another year and get an additional $80 million, and look, could go to a beach now, or he could grind it out for another year and get an additional 80 million and look, that's a lot of money even if you have 80 million. So remember he it's not like he gets it all. 

01:06:51 - Flup (Host)
he's got to split it up with his company yeah, my point is why are you doing content on the like like this, for the additional 80 million? Is that why he's getting it. 

01:07:01 - Joey Knish (Host)
Okay, I didn't know that my fault yeah, I mean, it's a tactic to try and grow some. Obviously it's one, as you said, the YouTube views that he had. It's not working very well, but that's kind of the rationale behind it. 

01:07:15 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I just think it's weird because I wouldn't be here today without Odds Jam. That was my first like real start to sports betting. But, man, they annoy the shit out of me with their advertising technique. This kind of behavior is why I despise them now Unabated. I've used them for three years, still use them. All my traders use them, love their product and it makes me happy to see that I'm on the right side of a dispute where they're clearly Unabated is getting taken advantage of by a very predatory and scummy behavior by Oddsham. 

01:07:48 - Flup (Host)
I guess I also don't understand this guy's content strategy because when you look at his most popular videos, it's the prototypical. You know how I made this amount of money betting in one year? Very impressive, like very. You know personal videos that can help people get 200, 100,000 views. These videos are not working. It's clear that this content strategy by him is not working. Why not go back to the stuff? Like he has a video how I made my sister five thousand dollars betting on sports, like that's the kind of shit he should be doing? Copying him is not working for you. You need to get back to the content strategy well, and it's just. 

01:08:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You're an asshole Like it's one thing to like. Take a video idea and make it your own. 

01:08:29
Right, right, like in the content space, like especially, there's only so many topics, especially to cover from a sports like, evergreen sports betting perspective. But, like it would appear, he has literally taken the thumbnail and made his own version of it. He literally, whether intentional or not, this title is word for word, lowercase and uppercase letters, the exact same as the other one. So it's one thing to take the concept, but he and the script. It's like he took the transcript and read it out himself. 

01:09:06 - Flup (Host)
That's the worst. And read it out himself. That's the worst part of it. The fact that he just like it is funny that he took trick and fool and just tried to make it look a little different, but the fact that he's blatantly just reading the same shit that the other channel did, that's what makes it kind of irreparable. 

01:09:22 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
Now, dude, let me ask you this Say, you did post a video about a mobster that no one's talked about, right? And then I make a video about that mobster using a different thumbnail and I have different takes on it than you. You have no problem with that right? 

01:09:35 - Flup (Host)
No, I have no problem with that because, again, like there are so many people to cover and all of them have an interesting story, but again, most of these people they don't even know they exist until I do them right, as long as you put your own flair, but when you take like thumbnails I have and straight up just make them the same way, like it's yeah again, there's nothing really I can do. 

01:09:55
All I could put out is that hey, you're, you're biting off me, which is fine, but straight up, reading like people's, like it's almost like a uh, uh, what are they when you teleprompter? Yeah, that's, that's wild I do. 

01:10:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I do content as well, so I I see similar. So, like you know, if I come up with an idea for a video and it blows up, other other channels in the same niche are going to do the same now I'll tell you as long as they're changing the title, changing the thumbnail, and they're putting their own, they're giving it personality. That's different. That's just part of the game. 

01:10:32 - Flup (Host)
I'll still say to this day, there's a content maker in the sports space that took my big man on campus name and made their own show about it. Do you remember that? Joey Kanish? Do you know what I'm talking about? Kanish, Do you know what I'm talking about? I don't. They should have poked my name and just changed the letters around and just had a different abbreviation. That's beside the point. I don't want to get them in. I don't want to get us into trouble here. 

01:10:57 - Joey Knish (Host)
No, no. You have to let me know who this was. After the show Alright. 

01:11:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
If I had copied Kevin Jack's videos word for word. He's an asshole, just complete asshole, 100 percent. Um, all right, let's move into now the final segment here, the chopping block, where we've got a few extra topics here that didn't warrant an entire segment. But uh, we do want to talk about a little bit at the very least, starting off with amanda vance celebrating her big win on sam bennett to get the first goal score for the panthers and, uh, $25 bet on this one here at plus 1100 odds, jonah at stakes. Underscore royale says imagine paying $250 a month to find out your handicapper is sending out $25 hard rock first goal wages. The Nadeau is that a bad look or what? 

01:11:47 - Flup (Host)
No, this is why Amanda Vance is way smarter than you think. Do you think she actually cares that that guy did that? She wants people to do that. Right, these people are willing to sell their soul. They don't care how stupid they look. It is all about engagement. You can then profitize off this. Nowadays, she loves this. This is her goal. This is a certain uh you know guy in boston's goal. There's a lot of people like this. She wants she does these things for a reason. We're not stupid. She went in that club for a reason to do that. 

01:12:22 - Joey Knish (Host)
This is what they do you know, if this was emma vance, I wouldn't have a problem with it in advance. Uh, it is like I agree with you, they do. She's in the it's all for clicks club. Um, I don't know what like to me I would have. If it's like, and you're trying to run the, I don't know why you don't crop out the amount that the ticket is for. It does look like you have that 25,. You know what I'm saying, but I'm aligned with you. It's just whatever I can do to get people, whether it be pissed off, whether I look stupid or any of that. It's all just engaged in the department. 

01:13:03 - Flup (Host)
I will quickly say, before we get Flop's thought I mentioned this last week, Emma Vance. She has taken a. She's gotten a trophy from me for one thing. She is the only person that I've ever slid into her DMs where she did not respond at all. Never happened, Ghosted. 

01:13:22 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
First time. That is very unfortunate. I was going to bash Amanda for this, but Nadeau brought up a great point that this is all for engagement, so I don't really want to comment further and give her more engagement. I didn't think about that. Nadeau is spot on, unfortunately. I wish he wasn't right, but he was. 

01:13:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
We've talked about it before. People are not buying the picks because they're winning picks. Right, we can leave it at that. Next one here comes from MLFootball. At underscore MLFootball it says news hashtag Colts owner Carly Ursae Gordon explains why she is on the sideline with a headset on and a call sheet. She says I need to be able to say is this person full of BS? Do they even know what they're talking about? I would suggest it for anyone else that has to pay head coaches and GMs millions and millions of dollars. It helps you make a less expensive mistake. It is such a complex organism, a football team, and how it operates. You could say that person ran the route wrong learning. Oh, someone tagged the wrong receiver and it wasn't really the players' fault, it was a person that called it. So how do we feel about owners being on the sideline with a call sheet and a headset? What do you think? A strong female owner. 

01:14:33 - Joey Knish (Host)
Let's hear it, they do. 

01:14:34 - Flup (Host)
Well, I will say there is nothing better than being a kid of a rich person, right? This individual who's done nothing? She does nothing about football, about football, but hey, she's rich and her father died. 

01:14:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So it's her company, at least she's not. Just this is like it's not like major league, like the movie, like come on, she's there trying to. 

01:14:56 - Flup (Host)
At least she's a fucking religious studies major, she's not a fucking football well, no, but like you're right, she's been completely blessed by nepotism. 

01:15:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
At least there's's an effort to participate in the role. 

01:15:09 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
If Tom Brady bought a team and was on the sidelines, fine, you actually played. I can respect it. But I don't care if it's a man or a woman, if you're a rich dude and you play football. Get the fuck away from the sidelines. You don't know anything. 

01:15:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think the that's fine. 

01:15:26 - Joey Knish (Host)
No microphone, yeah I don't, I don't. Actually I don't hate the idea in principle of like an owner just going there and wanting to see what's happening, or any of that. 

01:15:36 - Flup (Host)
I don't get it not. 

01:15:37 - Joey Knish (Host)
It's not like hey, I'm getting on be like no, no, no, we want the x, y, z. 

01:15:42 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
you know, banana, here I think terrible, terrible take, because these people don't know what they're even to look for. You need to hire a respected GM and they'd handle everything Someone that knows football. They tell you what's going on and you give them a year or two or three leash and if they don't figure it out, you fire them and you try again. Robert Kraft he fucked off. He let Bill Belichick do everything. Works out great. The Eagles owner he lets Howie take care of everything. He doesn't get involved. What do we see? Constant winning and a consistent, reputable person in charge is good. You don't need to get micromanaged. 

01:16:20 - Flup (Host)
And look at the hands-on owners, the Jerry Joneses of the world, ann. And look at the hands-on owners, the Jerry Joneses of the world. Annoyances, by the way. What does her goal do? Like Kanisha is saying, if they call out Spider 2, why banana? No, no, I don't think we should do that. Let's do something else. What's the micromanaging here? Go up in the office, have some finger food and fuck off Exactly. 

01:16:40 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
And if you think, like also, I don't think people understand how to even talk to like professional athletes and men like this, if you, if you have a coach cursing out another player, that could be the correct technique, and she might be like whoa, let's have a sign of respect here, like no, that's just not how it is. I'm not saying that's how they speak or they don't speak, but she can't even realize what she's thinking about because she hasn't been in football for like 30 years. If she has, I'll change my opinion, but I don't think she has. 

01:17:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
If she's just there on the sidelines listening and not doing anything, that's fine. Completely changes. If she's trying to change plays or if she's micromanaging, that would be completely different. But if she's just there to absorb, whatever. 

01:17:27 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
If you're there to absorb, that's one thing, but my fear is she's there to absorb and then make decisions based on that. Yeah, and that's a problem, and it's like you don't even know what you're looking for. 

01:17:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, you're right, that would be a problem, I agree, so it just depends on how it. I would like some more information how involved she is in the decision-making process. I guess we'll see a little bit more next season. This one comes from Joey Knish himself, who says Motor City Casino. I don't think this new policy of checking everyone's ID, even if their 100-year-old lady is working very well. 30-minute wait to walk in the fucking casino like I'm at Cedar Point and I see a bunch of people turning around and leaving Genius idea. And you posted a photo of a large line of people just trying to enter a casino. Can you describe this experience? 

01:18:16 - Joey Knish (Host)
You know there's a lot of bad things happening in the world Russia, ukraine, palestine, israel, all that but this I got to tell you is one of those things that, in my world, has really just been brutal. There was a I'll give you the context here because I got it from one of my people there there was a bar fight between two underage kids inside of Motor City and they got fined by Michigan Gaming Commission because of that, because it led to arrests and all that. And so their response to that was we're going to check every single person's ID that walks into this property. I don't care if they've been there 600 days in a row and they're 104 years old, old and they can barely walk around one of those little scooter things. We need to see your id. 

01:19:09
So they went from, like you know, just uh, if this person looks, you know, maybe in the you know round 21, we're gonna card you to now everybody on earth. And it's leading to this where, anytime it gets busy, you're now waiting in a you know 15, 20, 30 minute line to walk in a fucking casino, uh, which is, I gotta tell you, is jamming me up a little bit and it's quite frustrating and uh, for you know thoughts and prayers for for joey k, if, uh, you know, leave those in the comments. Send me a dm fruit basket, all that stuff stuff. 

01:19:41 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I'm just happy that you now understand what it's like for those poor ukrainians getting bombed by Russia to feel like that Amen, amen. 

01:19:49 - Joey Knish (Host)
I'm in the trenches, baby, I'm in the foxhole. 

01:19:52 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I agree completely, though If it's like, if Jacob and I go, I'd be us, but if you two old farts, okay, let you guys in. 

01:19:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Oh man, I got a beard. I think I'm good you might get ID'd yeah. 

01:20:02 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I might get ID'd. I always get ID'd, I'll get. 

01:20:05 - Joey Knish (Host)
ID'd. You know, go in for a driving test. 

01:20:08 - Flup (Host)
If it's within 20 years, I understand, but if you know little Edna from you know Pool Park pulls up in her wheelchair like do we need to ID Grandma Panagakis going into the casino? 

01:20:23 - Joey Knish (Host)
I mean, come on, yeah, it's gone, Like the response has gone, totally the opposite. And and now we're gonna? 

01:20:29 - Flup (Host)
this is. This is a norman society. It's one mile wild extreme to the other. It's we're not gonna arrest anybody and then we're gonna start arresting everyone for everything. Yeah, why don't we just arrest bad people who commit crimes and are violent? Yeah, there's always something. 

01:20:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Last topic here on the topic is a little bit, I guess it comes from Sin City, las Vegas, at SC Vegas is how many days is too many for a Vegas trip? Now do what is the sweet spot for a Vegas trip in your opinion. 

01:21:04 - Flup (Host)
Well, you know, it's a great. I think it really depends where you're coming from. I mean, for me it's a six and a half hour flight, so for me I would say five days. I think that's just enough, you know. Um, then again, I also think we have to think about, you know if, if they're big time high rollers, you what? What are they getting exactly? You know how much? Could they be there for two, two weeks is crazy. And in vegas, uh, I would say five days. 

01:21:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So yeah, I mean four nights four nights. 

01:21:32 - Joey Knish (Host)
You think, five days, four nights, yeah six and a half hour flight, four hours for for joey, a lot longer for you know, greyhound train or car or any of that, if you know, for people that use those methods of transportation there. But uh, I will say I can't really justify more than like three and this is. I don't want to get into the whole what we've, we've done, the old, like what happened to vegas thing, um, and it's if in the olden days you know when I'm dated, now I'm gonna, you know sound like the old guy in the olden days. You know when I'm dated now I'm going to, you know, sound like the old guy in the panel here where, like you know, 15 years ago, when I was a lot younger to, some of that old Vegas stuff was in there the cheap buffets, the cheap drinks, all that stuff where you had it. Now I kind of feel like I'm getting price gouged and getting it stuck in me. You know every and then not that I'm paying for. You know I stuck in me. 

01:22:32 - Flup (Host)
You know every and not that I'm paying for you know I'm paying for it and I'm not paying for. You know what I'm saying. So, um, yeah, I think the I agree with they do. Five is way like. I think two to three is the sweet spot. I will also point out, in this day and age, in 2025, one of the most overrated cities in the world. Yes, I mean just, I have no reason to go to Vegas. I mean I'm going to go to play in the World Series, stuff like that, but I have no reason to go to Vegas ever. I can bet with my state, I can go to casinos. They're all over. There's no need for me to go to Vegas anymore. 10, 15 years ago, okay. 

01:22:58 - Joey Knish (Host)
If Bet Bash wasn't there, like the conference wasn't there, we wanted to go. Like I, I could see myself not going to vegas for, like you know, maybe ever again or any of that. Like it's just, I agree with you. The, the allure and the the need to go there is, um, just not what it was yeah, interesting point about the price gouging. 

01:23:16 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I don't drink so I don't really see it that much, but I I've heard a lot of people complain. 

01:23:21 - Joey Knish (Host)
I'm there the resort. Like you stay in old oil bill a resort fee. I'm freaking like the buffet fortunately for me. 

01:23:28 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I hit up my pal I. I took a page out of george uh grp's book. I had my friend jeff benson and he he caught me a room. So I don't, I don't get a, I don't have to deal with that. Fortunately, I just punted all the way in the casino. So for me it's fine. I don't really mind it that much. 

01:23:43 - Flup (Host)
Here's what I'll tell you, and I mean this Atlantic City. I will give you a way better time than in Vegas. I'll tell you that right now. 

01:23:53 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
I've been to ACU. I've been there. My family likes to go there. Honestly, it wasn't that special to me. 

01:24:01 - Flup (Host)
Here's what I'll tell you. It's an ugly, bad city, but there's a lot of beauty in it. I'm talking about realizing there's a beach, realizing you can jet ski, realizing you can get on a boat, realize all the different things you do. Look, would I say, go on to Pacific Avenue at 2 am. No, but there's a lot more things you can do there. There's all sorts of towns you can go to, close to there it's. Plus, it has a beach, vegas, doesn't? 

01:24:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
it's 100 degrees in the middle of the summer I did vegas a couple years ago with my now fiance I think. I think we did do four nights and it felt like we were done at the end of the trip. I hadn't been before as well. So like going back, I would want to go back, but if somebody's been there a lot, I could see like not a huge desire, wanting to keep it. 

01:24:46 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
How hard is it, or annoying is it, to get through customs as a Canadian for you? 

01:24:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It's drummed up to be more than it is. You'll get busier times, but no, I have a Nexus which helps. I talked about that on the Tuesday show. There's an app you can do to get like a almost like a fast pass line for free, but it's it's been drummed up to be a much bigger deal than than it actually is. I think like I guess there can be lines to get into. So so what? What happens at the airport in Toronto? You clear us customs in Toronto and it's a section of the airport that is just for people who have cleared US customs. You don't have to clear customs once you arrive in the US. It's just beforehand and I'm somebody who gets to the airport early anyway, so not a big deal. It has never deterred me from wanting to make a trip knowing that I have to go through customs. 

01:25:39 - Flup (Host)
Speaking of airports, Joey, you didn't respond. Are you interested that I will fly in the next month? Are you in? 

01:25:49 - Joey Knish (Host)
That's the rumor out there. You know what? There's? Some people that have their skepticism, have their doubts, but I think this is really the true test, for you know, I might even have some people head out there to watch it happen. 

01:26:06 - Flup (Host)
All I'm going to say is all you fuckers better walk this shit back. 

01:26:14 - Jeff Nadu (Host)
The problem is, nadeau. I think you've made it such a point that they'll never walk it back. 

01:26:20 - Flup (Host)
I told you. That's why I have to go live, that's why I have to make a big thing about it, because oh, it's ai, it's not, it's, it's always going to be something I. 

01:26:31 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I don't believe you're on the no fly list. I'd like to see a video of you on a plane, but if you say, I want to make this clear you do know that when you go on the no fly list, you're generally never removed from it. 

01:26:42 - Flup (Host)
Okay, you fucks realize that two years ago I went to Chicago. Okay, I'm all. I have fucking photos. 

01:26:50 - Joey Knish (Host)
You've got a great mafia lawyer. 

01:26:53 - Flup (Host)
I've got photos on my fucking on the tarmac dude. What am I in the middle of the tarmac? Why? 

01:26:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
do people believe, brother? Like what would be the reason you're on the no fly list? 

01:27:02 - Flup (Host)
Because some shit bag put it out there and it's went from here since, but it's very offensive and it's again going to give. It's giving me problems in my personal. I'm telling you, I told him that and I'm going to tell you that and I don't want to be on the same list. 

01:27:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Other people are serious. You can't take it as seriously. 

01:27:21 - Flup (Host)
I don't want to be on the same list as muhammad atta and fucking ramsey Yusuf. I'm sorry. 

01:27:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, I look forward to the video of you on a plane, because I don't believe you're on the no-fly list. 

01:27:32 - Flup (Host)
I'll tell you too, I'm going to make it up big. I'm going first class everything. Fuck you guys. 

01:27:37 - Joey Knish (Host)
I'm excited. I will say AI. We want to talk advancements in AI. Two months ago AI. Actually, if you typed in, jeff Nadeau would say that you were, and now it says it's his dick. 

01:27:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm going to type it in I'm going to type it right out Is Jeff Nadeau on the no-fly list. It actually autofills to that. It's because I've typed it in. It says the list is not publicly released, so the AI cannot give a definitive answer yeah, but for a long time it said I was yeah, it did. 

01:28:11 - Flup (Host)
You're right, it did. 

01:28:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Now it's not public. What did you reach out to Google and get a change? Grok gives a different answer. 

01:28:17 - Joey Knish (Host)
Grok gives more of an answer that it's kind of a joke from basketball sports time. 

01:28:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right. Well, we'll just have to wait and see. On that, that is the end of today's show. Thank you to everybody for tuning in. Please smash that like button if you did enjoy the show and help drive us up to 20,000 subs by subscribing to the channel. Rate and review five stars if you did enjoy Tuesday. I personally will be working very hard because, kanish, this isn't my only job in the company. I am personally going to be working very hard to try and get the Tuesday show back in studio for next week. So if it doesn't happen, it's not my fault, that's what I'll say. We'll see you there, no matter where it's being held.