00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a milestone episode for us number 100, so we wanted to have a very special guest on. We're joined by Ed Golden. He's the founder of Right Angle Sports, a very respected pick service in the space. We're going to talk to him about the evolution of that service, a lot of the criticisms that they get and a lot more than that. Stay tuned. Episode 100 of Circles Off starts now. Come on, let's go Welcome to Circles Off episode number 100, right here on. The Circles Off starts now. Come on, let's go Welcome to Circles Off episode number 100, right here on the Circles Off YouTube channel, available in podcast form as well on Spotify and Apple podcast. This is a very special episode for us as we're going to bring on someone that I wanted to talk to for a long time and wanted to have on this podcast for a long time, but we're specifically saving him for the milestone episode number 100. Rob Pizzola here, joined by Johnny from Betstamp. Johnny, how are things going? 

00:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Really good. Rob, appreciate that me and you made it to 100. 

01:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a feat, it really is, and we put a lot of work into this. So I'm glad we made it here. I'm glad our following is growing. Um, I'm really happy with the way that the first 100 episodes go. Hopefully the next 100 episodes go as smoothly. And very special thanks to our sponsor. This couldn't have been done without them. Pinnacle sportsbook. They are the world's sharpest sportsbook, now available to bettors in Ontario. Find out what professional bettors have known for decades. Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19 plus if you're in Ontario and, of course, please play responsibly. Not available to bettors in the United States. Let's get right into it. He is the founder of Right Angle Sports. Arguably I wouldn't even say arguably let's remove, arguably the most respected pick service in the world right now. 

01:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
More respected than Fezzik. 

01:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, that's for the people to decide, but in my opinion, you hear Right Angle Sports, you know that they're the real deal. And the founder joins us today. His name is ed golden. I had the pleasure of meeting him at circus sports in las vegas. The man bought me a classic rubin sandwich at saginaw delicatessen great sandwich. Got to meet the team, ed. 

02:21 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Welcome to circles off hey guys, thanks for having me and I just want to congratulate you guys. 100 shows, that's. I mean I have an appreciation for how difficult content is, and you know you guys do it better than anyone, so congratulations. 

02:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I thank you very much. Thank you, that means a lot coming from you, ed. Honestly, it was great meeting you in person last year. We got to chat a little bit. I got to meet members of your team. But for those who are unfamiliar, give us some of your own personal background and how you got started in the betting space. 

02:52 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, so my family was, you know, into gambling. My dad's a horse player, my brother was betting sports, you know, at a pretty young age, and so I just kind of got into it that way. Um, I I was just thinking of a story that I could tell but my, my first and only job was at Valley Park in a five-star hotel and my brother worked there. He kind of helped me get the job and he, you know, I was kind of getting pretty good at sports, but not not great. I didn't really know what I was doing, but I was, you know, doing pretty well in like college basketball and stuff like that. 

03:28
But most, most of the department was like getting my picks. And so I was, you know, giving picks out here to the bellman, the security, whatever. And my brother was like going on a trip, you know for a weekend or a week or something. And he said something to me it's like you know, don't give these guys too many picks. And I'm like I don't know what he was talking about, you know whatever. And so, you know, I I didn't even think twice, I kept giving the picks out, and so a pretty good week and he gets back from the trip and he's like upset at me and you know little did. I know he was an agent for you know, giving these guys accounts, all these different employees and whatnot. So you know he was pretty upset with me but that kind of was like the springboard to my, you know, giving out picks, career. 

04:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Taking money right out of your own brother's pocket, ed, oh man, I'm sure he loved it. 

04:23 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, I mean, I don't even know how we got scores in those days, but like you can imagine, like you know people running for a car and you know NC state's up by 10, like just you know it was it was. It was a fun time. 

04:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So at that time, like, what was the handicapping process like in the early going for you? You said you're working a valet. Like, are you statistics based, guy? Are you watching the games? What are you doing that you think gives you an edge in the early going? 

04:45 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
yeah, I mean it's a good question. I mean I was, I was watching games. My, my mom was a teacher and and she was like getting her master's in some technology program. So like I was lucky that we had like the internet in our house, uh, pretty, pretty early, and I just kind of that kind of kind of helped me in those early years, just kind of being able to research more than you could, you know before the internet. So yeah, but but yeah, I'm just mainly watching games, just trying to, you know, I mean, keep in mind back then it was pretty. It's a lot easier than it is now. If you bet early in the market and you were doing college sports, you know it wasn't that hard to do, okay. 

05:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair enough Now you know it wasn't that hard to do. Okay, fair enough now. So, and did you actually think you had an edge back then? So this would be, you know, uh, for those of you who, for those online who don't know, that the year we're talking here like the early 90s, correct? 

05:34 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
yeah, 94, 95. I mean the service started in 96. Um, you know, I, I think I thought I had an edge, whether I did or not, I mean that's a completely different question. 

05:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So, yeah, but again like it was easy, and the markets. 

05:54 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
I was doing were not like you know, crazy difficult. 

05:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So then I guess yeah, what? 

05:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
led you to start. Sorry to cut you off, Rob, here. What? Led you to actually then go ahead and start Red Angle Sports as we know it today. 

06:01 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Well, yeah, so back to the valet, like. So one day we, they call us in a room and the whole department got, uh, got, let go. Like they brought on like an outside service. So, like I went home I was like upset, I loved that job. Uh, you know, I was making pretty good money. I thought at the time and and so, yeah, so that. So then, you know, I started spending more time with sports, spending more time online, these communities and stuff like that, and that ultimately led to me starting the service. 

06:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And and I always look back at that because, like, if I didn't get fired, I probably wouldn't have started the service, at least not at that time- Now, when you started the service, was that just you as like as a loan operator, and you were doing everything yourself, or did you start that with another group of people? 

06:42 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, no, it's completely by myself. I wasn't, you know, I was a shy, you know young kid and I didn't, you know, talk to anybody or network at all. I didn't know anything about any of that stuff. So I was just on my own and I would start I, I was really known for the long write-ups and I would pull up these long, detailed wraps and the message boards and that kind of really got my. You pull up these long, detailed write-ups and the message boards and that kind of really got my. You know kind of started bringing me some notoriety. Because when, when a game won with a big write-up whether or not the write-up was good, we can debate but like after the game wins and you read that right, like wow, like it really validates it more than just uh a game by one, one man show in the early going. 

07:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Contrast that to nowadays. I think a lot of people are familiar with right angle sports, but this is including myself. I have no idea what your day-to-day operation looks like. I remember when adam churnoff joined your team, him describing like his first couple weeks working with you were eye-opening for me. I didn't really understand the extent of what you guys do, so you started out at one how big is the team now? And talk about the evolution over the years. Was this something that you know? You hit a point where you're like, okay, we have to expand, or did? Was this slow incremental growth for your team? 

07:58 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, it was a pretty slow incremental group or growth Mike RAS was my group, uh, or growth um, mike res, uh was my my first partner, and we kind of took things you know quite a bit of ways. We had a you know pretty good run and it just kind of slowly got to the point where, you know, we can't do all the things we want to do with just us and there's too many teams, especially like something like college basketball, um, too many conferences, too many teams. You couldn't get the level of detail, uh, with just two people. And so, um, we, we kind of made a, a rapid expansion, I want to say about 10 years ago, um, where we brought in people who were going to help us, you know, organize all this information, gather all the information and just kind of take it to another level. 

08:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I can ask so many more questions and I don't. I want to delve into the operation as much as possible without you, just like you know, giving away secrets or anything like that. But something that I take away from that was specifically how you said that you know we want to be able to to gather all this information and, you know, organize it, so on and so forth. Would you say that most of your edge at right angle sports relative to other pick services or market makers or whatever, is coming from your ability to process information in real time? 

09:26 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, for sure. So I mean there's two parts to it. There's getting the information, and then you know how do you evaluate that information? There's so many times where two people can read the same article, two people can watch the same game and come up with a different, you know conclusion, and so I think we're really good at that. We especially, you know experience, I think, plays a big you know conclusion, and so I think we're really good at that. We especially, you know experience, I think, plays a big part in it where we you know we've seen this before we know that coach isn't telling the truth or you know whatnot. So, yeah, definitely, you know, analyzing that information is definitely a strong point of ours. 

10:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So Ed got a question here for you. So obviously I mean I'm not sure if it's 100% clear right now but what Right Angle Sports is? For anyone who doesn't know, we've talked about it multiple times on the show. You guys are essentially the pick service in the sports betting community, so it is a tout service. We'll say it for what it is now. It's definitely very different than the traditional, uh, tout services that we've come to know and hate. Um, but with that being said, you still are a tout service. So, if you don't mind, can you just give the listeners like a basic rundown of like what, what you do and, um, you know maybe how it's different than the traditional pick selling service that's out there in the market? 

10:45 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Well, in a lot of ways, I mean, we're a betting group. I almost want to say, you know, at least in our history, we've been more of a betting group than a pick selling service. So it kind of starts from there. You know, we kind of you know, know, everything we do kind of revolves around just trying to find edges for bets and the service is, you know, a reflection of that. So, like you know, I don't know if you guys familiar with like this whole setup and go thing that we do on our releases. 

11:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Of course we are, yeah, but but yeah, I mean you want to explain that a little talk, talk about that for the listeners here. So ed does what's called the setup and go and he's kind of like the initial uh founder of that, so to speak, in the space. So you know what is that. How did that come to be? 

11:34 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
yeah, well, I mean, you know the idea. I got the idea because that's just like how we would like bet games uh, with with, you know, different movers and different things like know it has to be coordinated because if one person bets early, then the other mover is not going to be able to bet. You know the same price. And so we were like you know God, could that work with a big group? And you know we were like, ah, you know it might not, whatever, but we tried it and you know it's really been the best way that we can give the most people the chance to get the price. And you know it's been an evolution. 

12:06
We've done countdown timers, we've done you know all these different things, um, but this has been so far the best thing that that we've ever done. Um, you know it gives people 30 seconds to to like go in their account, set up the bet, get, get all the way down to that final confirmation screen. And then when we say go, all they gotta do is down to that final confirmation screen. And then when we say go, all they got to do is just make that final step before the line moves, instead of having to do that whole setup process. 

12:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's gotten so. It's gotten so crazy now, though, that people are actually betting the fakes because they see your information as being so valuable that they're actually willing to take a shot Basically a coin flipping that they're going to get a great price, and, honestly, I don't know if you view that as a problem or if, internally, you guys are looking at alternate solutions. I don't know what the solution is, ed, but nowadays, people are really recognizing the value in the service and how much your bets will move the market, and it's kind of led to this. Okay, now people are just going on everything. Have you guys internally noticed that? I'm sure you have. 

13:14 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, I mean it's good and bad. I mean the good is that we can, you know, purposely put opposite stuff in there and and and get free line moves or whatnot, um. But the bad is that if people, um, you know, if they, if they're doing it on a real play, it could make the line move faster and hurt some of the customers, um, so it's a cat and mouse game. We're always kind of, you know, thinking of different ways that we can do it better. Um, we started doing like some opposites where you know if it starts moving early we'll go opposite, and and that kind of really, I think would really make, you know, make people hesitate. But the real problem is like, if you have a sharp group in there and they like a play, and you know their game gets set up, you know, I think they probably think that they should bet it. So that's something that you know we got to keep dealing with. 

14:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So, ed, how do you actually like, how are you gaining an edge right now? Because right now the difference between at least the way I see it your plays and then you know most other touts in this space or most other picks selling service in this space, is you're actually getting closing line value near 100% of the time. You know it would be a rarity for you to have anything that doesn't steam immediately um and you know, unless there's a major injury or anything like that I haven't seen. 

14:34
You know, it's very rare for a play to come back and then you know, show a significant negative clv. So how are you, how are you doing it like what's the what's the secret sauce here? 

14:43 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
well, that's the secret. No, but, um, you know, we just we got, we got a really good team, we got a really talented, experienced team and we worked really hard. I mean it's just if there's no like shortcuts, there's nothing, there's no secrets, there's no secret model. Um, it's just we're just grinding away like everybody else, and you know we, we, we compete. You know we, we compete, we compete, we try to find edges and we try to bring that edge to the releases. 

15:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Are you creating a number on a game before you bet it? Or is this strictly a process of we don't think the market has captured X piece of news or Y what we're hearing, or maybe overcaptured something? Because again, I'm digging as much as I can into the operation you have a larger team of different handicappers, but when you talk about those handicappers, are they specifically guys who are saying you know, we need to go on this game because the market is not capturing this data? Or is it we need to go on this game because I make is not capturing this data? Or is it we need to go on this game because I make the line minus eight and the market is at minus four? 

15:51 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
yeah, I mean, I mean most of the most of the uh long-term people on the team, we, we start when we, when we originate a play, we're not originating it from a model number. We're originating it because I I think the team's underrated, I think the team's overrated or or you know, whatever it is total wise, whatever it might be, um, and then we'll look at the models and make sure you know we're getting a fair price and whatnot. But but yeah, I mean, that's typically where our origination starts. Um, we have some people that are more math oriented, so I don't want to speak, speak for the whole team, but for me at least. You know, I'm always definitely looking at, I'm starting it from. You know where I think the market's off. 

16:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, now let's walk through an example here, just so that the audience has a better idea. Right, and let's use college basketball. From my understanding, you have multiple people in college basketball, all who are focused on one or two different conferences, trying to get as much news. You can correct me if if I'm wrong on any of this, but what is the process now for a release? Essentially, so, one of your handicappers, who I don't know is following the, says you know, this is a great play. Do they have the autonomy to, or the authority to, release that play themselves? Does it filter in through a team? Does it filter in through you? Who ultimately gets the final say? Kind of, just walk us through how that would come to be. 

17:18 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, that's a really good question. 

17:20
So there's mainly six of us, that that I would call the, the decision making team, um, and we'll usually start with a pretty big list, you know, overnight or the night before, and if it's a big card, I mean that list could be 20, it could be 30 plays, and we will kind of rank them on how strong we think each one is. 

17:43
And then by the time you get to the morning, you know, with all the line moves and all the different things that happen, that 20 playlists might, you know, it might be 12, it might be eight, it might be six, and at that point we'll kind of take a vote on what we, what we think should be released. We'll have everyone do a top three, or, you know, whatever the number is. Um, you know, there's some cases where if someone really likes the game, or you know, hey, this, this has to be released, this is an easy decision, whatever. Um, then that happens too, but but usually we try to be as consensus as possible. Uh, unless someone just has really strong conviction, then you know, sure, sure, that'll get through now are you guys betting the picks at the time of release as well? 

18:27
um, you know I I don't really want to get into that too much. I would just say we're pretty creative with with how we do that and obviously we're not getting anywhere near the amount that we would on a non-release as we are as a release, um, so that's just kind of a give and take that we, you know, have with ourselves on the service. 

18:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, now I'm. Now I'm even more interested in that and I'm going to press a little bit on that as well. So, in the decision-making process, you know, walk me through what goes into the process of we're going to release this versus. We're not going to release this like it. Does it have to do with the amount that you can get down on a specific bet? Um, you know how does that come to be? Because obviously it's a balancing act. From from what I understand you, you do have your service, you want to maintain the reputation of that service, you want it to win in the long run for everybody that's following it. But on top of that, you are a betting group and you said it yourself. When johnny said, you know it's a tout service, he said well, we think of it more as a betting group. So how do you balance both of those? What ultimately goes into the decision of we're going to release this game versus we're just going to not release this game and we're going to bet it ourselves? 

19:39 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
right. So you know, if you look at the history of the service, there were a lot of years where it was pretty obvious that our focus was on betting. There were years where we didn't do totals, we didn't release any totals on the service. There were years where I think we did just second halves only for a couple of years. We always kind of stop and, you know, start the service or stop the service at different times, um, so that you know there's more opportunities for betting. Um, in recent years we're pretty much all in on the service. We're trying to get our best stuff on the service. We think that's where the most upside is, and so, you know, the only real determinate, determining factor now is is, you know, do we think we have a winning play and that's what we're going to release? We're going to try to release our best, though. 

20:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Fair enough. Now, in terms of the upside of the service, is that because it's just harder to get down nowadays, like you lose accounts quicker? Why is the determination that the service has more upside than the betting side? 

20:45 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
So I mean, it's just really a math problem because like, if we, let's say we have 100 customers paying us $50 a pick, we make $5,000 a pick and let's just say we have an EV of 10%, we're going to have to bet $50,000 on a game to capture that same amount of expected value. Now, we could do that. It's not easy. It's pretty difficult, as you know, but where's the upside? Is it going to be easier to scale that pick to $10,000 per pick or are we going to be betting $100,000 per pick? Now, in college basketball it's not that easy to bet $100,000 on something at the price you want. I'm sure you guys are aware. 

21:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So we just feel like there's a lot more opportunity right now in growing the service than growing our bet sizes you know what ed that actually checks out and you know we we're obviously very critical of like tout services I I do. I have in the past spoken out about how I do think right angle sports is like doing this in a much more legitimate way than most people. And the thing that most people always ask and this is what I would ask first and foremost, main thing I would ask is like what's in it for this guy? If he can win money on these picks, then why is he giving them up for money? And usually when you ask that to someone, the answer is something like oh well, I just yeah, I bet it already. Or like, oh, I got this. And it's never a real answer. It's always something stupid. 

22:17
That makes no sense. If somebody's touting out full spreads for NFL that are right before the game and they don't close with value and you can essentially bet a very high amount on them, there's no way it makes sense to sell that pick. So what you're doing, I do think, checks out. And for anyone who was asking so, why is that actually selling these picks? I do think there is some sort of value in that from a business perspective that he may not be able, or his group may not be able, to scale this up to the point where they can bet $300,000 to $400,000 on a college basketball game on one side, but they may be able to make the equivalent expected value of that $300,000 to $400,000 bet in pick sales and as a cumulative group, in theory everybody else may actually be able to get down on that. Everybody else may actually be able to get down on that and in some get down more than 400,000, meaning the betters will actually win, as opposed to just funding all their money to add in a service and then giving more money back to the sports books. 

23:19
So the key there, Ed, is if you're giving out a pick, you need you absolutely need your subscribers to be able to get that pick for a decent amount to make it worth the $50 a pick and at the exact same price. So that's why one of the most critical you know, most big, biggest criticisms of your service is like the lines are so hard to get. Do you think that this will be like an increasing challenge? I know you do the release and go. Do you? What percentage of your user base sorry, it's a long-winded question what percentage of the pick base do you think, actually bets it at the true price that you've given it out at a good question, you know. 

23:57 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
You know we do a lot of surveys with our customers and we try to, you know, talk to them as much as possible. I, I think it's pretty high, I think it's it's probably somewhere in the 80 to 90% range, and we always recommend people, you know, refund their subscription. We offer refunds at any time throughout the subscription, a prorated refund, and you know we say like, listen, if you're not getting the line, don't pay for the service, because that's, you know, if you're not capturing the value, there's no point in paying for it. But but you know one thing, I another thing I would say is that you know it is hard to get our lines, it's hard to deal with all the, you know, steam and all that stuff. 

24:39
But, like, the easier it is to bet something, the less likely it is to win. And you know, the more likely you are to win, the harder it is to bet something. And that goes for pretty much all the sports betting. I think it's just a general rule. So, like, I'd much rather be on it's hard to get the line side than someone who you know it's less likely to win you know what? 

25:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think that's probably true for most facets of life, not just sports betting. If it's really easy to do something, it's probably not going to make you a ton of money and, uh, bring you a ton of value. And if it's hard to do, then you know there's a reason why. So agreed, agreed there, completely. Um, when I experimented with the service prior, you know, and just in passing, seeing how the releases go, there's a lot of times where let's say, we'll give it a real-time example, say you're giving out Michigan State pick'em, for example, minus 110, college basketball, making up an example here, so you'll give that out. You know you'll do your whole, like three, two, one go. That's the release. 

25:54
So everybody is supposed to be betting Michigan State pick'em minus 110. And if they get that price, seemingly, or based on your history, they should be winning on that play. But what we also will see is that line just gets absolutely obliterated to the point where people are then betting it at sometimes minus 40 or minus 150, which obviously you know it might be profitable, but you didn't give out that number. You're not tracking your record against your number, all of your history is not based on that number. So what then happens is sometimes people are buying back on the other side. It's been a major trend on Twitter. Everyone kind of knows about that. If you know about the RASPAC service, question for you is this Do you think it is profitable to buy back on the RAS releases and make money? 

26:31 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
I don't think you can do it blindly. Obviously there's you know, we're wrong on stuff and there's going to be lines that move too far. I think there's also probably just as many that maybe don't move enough, Um. So if you have the skillset to be able to identify, like, which games were wrong on, or which games move too far, um, or or, or the ability to time the market perfectly, so okay, this, this line is peaked. I'm going to bet this. If you have that skillset, I think you probably can find some. You know something better to do with your your time than than trying to fade res. I mean, that that's just my opinion. I don't, I don't recommend it. 

27:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, blind as a blind strategy out of curiosity, have you guys ever played back on one of your releases where I mean so like? I'll use college basketball totals as an example where I think you you get a ton of clv on your college basketball totals. It it's generally a smaller market in terms of what one can max bet to the point where you will actually see totals move sometimes upwards of 10 points. Have you guys ever sat around after the fact? I mean it's rare, I'm not saying it happens all the time, but you guys ever sat around after the fact? You're like, holy geez, like we might actually have a great middle here where we have plus ev on both sides. Is that something you guys have ever considered doing, or do you think it would just be a bad look releasing both sides of the same game? 

27:56 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
yeah, not no, but we've never really considered. It's pretty rare that for something to move 10 points, I mean that that happened more back in the day, not not so much in modern uh, modern markets, um, you know it's. I can't say I've never, ever done it, but it's very, very, very rare and usually only when there's some new information or you know, something like that um, I can say, ed, personally, I've been on gambling twitter since 2010, so 13 years now. 

28:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um, I can say I've learned a lot of things, specifically from Right Angle Sports through your Discord channel as well, from the people that communicate in there, but a lot of it, personally, came with some trust issues or some pause, because there's this subsection of the gambling Twitter space or the community that, frankly, just constantly shit on you. Um, whether that's they just don't like you, whether it's because of your attachment to selling picks or whatever, do you do you feel like the tout service undermines your credibility and like, if so, and if you ever do have that feeling does, does it bother you or is it something that you can just kind of let slide? 

29:12 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Well, I mean, obviously it bothers me. I think you've seen all my different tweets and different discussions that I've engaged in. But yeah, I mean there's so few absolutes in betting. I mean you hear people say don't do parlays, don't bet over minus 200 favorites, don't buy picks, I mean I can go on and on. Don't watch people on YouTube, I mean whatever it is. There's just always people who just can't fathom that something like this possibly could exist. And you know, I mean I get it, I I get I get their skepticism and a lot of it's well deserved, uh, especially in in in the pig selling industry. But you know just, there's just no absolutes. 

30:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
that's really all I would say about that I mean obviously a lot of people in the space and I'll just speak to it specifically, like there's no sense in hiding behind names or whatever. But I think one of the beefs I've seen with you before is with Rufus Peabody in particular, and I feel like over the years people have softened their stance towards you a little bit. 

30:31 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Do you feel the same way like I feel like it's it was more treacherous water a couple years ago and that it's kind of changing now yeah, well, I, I think, I think he kind of did me some favors with the whole unabated thing and the, the, the uh, etr golf product or you know all that kind of stuff, um, but no, I mean, I think it's definitely becoming a little more accepted now. 

30:53
I mean, people are paying for tools, people are playing for barbsides, uh, paid discords, um, it's becoming a lot more common. Um, you know, one of the things that does kind of bother me or I don't think enough credit is given is like people like Rufus or there's a lot of people out there but basically everybody that just kind of live under this, these reputations, you know, oh, he's a successful professional. Better, I'm not saying he isn't, I'm sure he is, but there's no like, when do you ever see that body of work out for public consumption? And I think, at least with us there's a large part of our body of work that is out there for the public and we kind of have to prove ourselves every season, every week, you know, to keep that reputation going. 

31:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Makes sense and that's an interesting point there, for sure. 

31:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a fair assessment. 

31:55
I mean, like people just people automatically assume that, like I'm the best hockey better around because for years I was betting lines and they'd move like crazy. But there's actually nobody has any insight into the day to day at all and they don't see the losing months or some years where I frankly just don't return that grade, and I'm sure there's hundreds of people out there that do that. So I think that's an extremely valid point, and probably one of the advantages to running a legitimized pick service, in the sense that you actually have documented record keeping for many years, is that you do actually, you are able to hang your hat on that and go back and say, like here's proof that I am who I say I am, whereas there are betters in the space where I mean, frankly, most of them probably win, but they don't have that to fall back on, to say, hey, I've actually done this for 10 years quite successfully. I mean, sure, I can show a bank account or like a crypto wallet or something like that, but you actually have that to fall back on. 

32:53 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
I think that's an inherent advantage, right and how many times do people say, ask if has already is res lost their edge? Um, I mean, I probably get that, that question, you know, three times a year, ten times a year, whatever it is, but whenever you're. I mean I don't want to get in names, but when do you ever hear you know, has this person lost their edge? Has you know whoever it is? You'd never get that because they're not performing out, they're not performing out for the public. And just one last thing is it's trivially easy to lose private. I mean losing in private is you go to bed at night, no problem. You know losing for people, or publicly, you know, for the whole world watching it's, it's, it's a lot more difficult yep I. 

33:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I could definitely uh see the struggles behind that and I don't envy that at all in any capacity. Um, one thing I did want to ask you about here before we move on. It's another rast criticism here. The right angle sports team recently launched and then later scrapped, a prop service, ed what the? Hell happened you got to give us the rundown here um, yeah, no, I mean it, it's, it's, it's tough. 

34:11 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Uh, I mean I don't want to get into too much detail, but you know, we, we met this, this prop team, and and uh watched their work for for a good amount of time. Uh, they had their own little private discord and and you know, I mean the work was impressive. I still think they win. They won, for you know, I want to say, well over a year before we started going public with their picks and their free picks won and they just, I mean they hit a really bad streak. They hit a really bad streak and I think they ended up losing, I don't know, maybe 15, 18, something like that total. Um, so no, it was it, believe me it was. It was frustrating and they were frustrated and, um, you know, it was a bad, bad experience. 

35:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I have a couple things I want to ask you about in regards to this, um. So, firstly, how do you make the decision to then cut that off? Because obviously I'm sure that was weighing on you. I know you don't like anything with the service losing and from everyone I had talked to before meeting you, ed, or interacting with you, you know what everybody told me was ed takes this very serious, like he takes winning very seriously, hates losing. So how long do you let that go on? And then I there's got to be something in your head that's like this is going to turn at some point. Do we just keep going with it, like, just walk me through? I'm sure this was weighing on you and I want to hear it from you in terms of exactly how much it was weighing on you and what ultimately led you to the decision of saying we just can't sell this anymore. 

35:47 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Well, it definitely weighed on all of us a lot, and I think the biggest thing for me is just the timing of it. I mean, college basketball is our busiest time of year. It's when, you know, we make all of our hay really, and so that was really the final factor. For me, it's like, you know, if this was a summer, yeah, let's keep it going, let's just whatever. But, like right in the middle of college basketball season, you know we just got to take our lumps here and call it a day and refocus back on you know what we normally do. 

36:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And the second thing is I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but we might be able to enjoy a good laugh together. Here is that Johnny was I don't want to say accused of, but a lot of people thought for a long time that Johnny himself was the right angle sports pick service. And I'm not sure if you're actually aware of that For props only. 

36:43
For props and and you, I I'm listening you you should let the audience know. Just to clear Johnny's name now, because people to this day still believe that it was him that lost all lost those 15 units. 

37:01 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
To my knowledge. To my knowledge, he was not involved in that team. Okay, Fair enough. 

37:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Ed mentioned a lot of he's like yeah, it's, it sucks losing in private. But it's even worse losing in public, although not losing in public, and getting blamed for losing in private. But it's even worse losing in public, although not losing in public, and getting blamed for losing in public. 

37:22 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
That's rough an ultimate double whammy. 

37:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But uh, yeah, it was absolutely not me, um, but it is what it is. Listen, I will say listen, you can lose over one month sample size. It's not very hard to do. It's, in fact, it's going to happen over the course of the year. So the fact that the props team that you were using one or a bad run and you had to scrap the service, it sucks and I just as easily could have gone the other way and been up 15 or 18 units and then you have a different story there. It's obviously tough, but those are the risks selling picks really Cause. Then when you're selling picks and you lose money now your business is actually suffering because the end you didn't know where you're going to keep my subscribers and stuff like this and like actually keep this afloat as a as a business. It's similar to if you're selling like a SaaS product, like a software product, and then your product went, went down for a month, like you're not going to, you're going to be worried about losing clients and things like that. 

38:17
So I think that's the main difference between losing in the pick service and losing in something else. 

38:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
there All right For sure. One more thing to pick up on and sorry, I made a lot of notes, ed, here while you're talking of stuff that specifically you said that I wanted to hit on, and a lot of people saying oh, has, has rass, has right angle, sports lost their edge. Was there ever a time along the way 96 to 2023 it's 27 years now where you felt like you had lost your edge or you were slowly losing your edge? Was there any point in that 27 year period where it was like this might be it for us in sports betting? 

38:58 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Well, I mean, multiple times a year there's, you know, you wonder if you're ever going to win another game, and I think we have some pretty negative people on our team that are known for their negativity as a strength, and so, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know there's you always have doubts and and and things like that. But, um, you know, you, just you just kind of persevere, just kind of you, you can look at things and sometimes we wonder, you know, do we need to focus more on this? Do we need to release earlier? Do we need to? You know, whatever it might be, um so sure, I I've had doubts, but we've been pretty fortunate, like we haven't really had a big long-term downswing. We have, we've had, you know, we've had downturns, but not they've been relatively short. So I think we've been fortunate to be consistent overall that's good to hear. 

39:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's good to hear. I mean, that that's the struggle of any better. Obviously, and one of the inherent challenges that you probably face, more so than anyone in the space, is that a lot of us use our closing line value as a guideline of whether or not we're on the right path or not. And you know it is an efficient market. You'd like to think that if you lost your edge, it would correct over time, but it would take time for that to happen. So you really don't have that metric to fall back on and say you know what? It's just a period of unluckiness. 

40:31
And I mean, I personally experienced this for one or two years in betting hockey, because the people who were moving my hockey were going to just bet the ever living crap out of it to the point where it steamed a ton and no one was gonna play back. So when we lost for a month or a month and a half, I would pull my hair out and be like I don't know, like do I still have an edge? I have nothing to fall back on. And I'm curious if, whether you go through those periods as well, because you know you you're generating great closing line value, but I mean candidly, it's artificial because so many people are betting your stuff. So can you even use that as a metric to say how we're still on the right track here? 

41:17 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
um well, I might want to push back on it being artificial, but, but, but, besides that, please do, please do if, if, if you disagree. 

41:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, I, I'm a believer in efficient market, as is johnny, but I think that right now, let and this is just for those out there, I don't believe this. I'm just speaking in pure, you know example here if right angle sports didn't have an edge today, it would probably take at least half a year for the market to catch up to that. I think, people, you've developed such a reputation of being a great better that people will still bet that blindly, even through a bad streak is all I'm getting at. So you, you would have that period of there's like be a small period of inefficiency in the market there. 

42:01 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Right. No, I mean, I'm not. I'm not saying there's zero, you know inflated or artificially inflated, but but it's still. It's still meaningful. I mean, if somebody sharp bet something or releases something, I think that's justifiable for a line to move. Um, you know, you can argue if it's too much or not or whatnot, but but, um, but back to the original question. I, I, I kind of think there'll be other signs maybe besides, just just less closing line. I, I'll probably get a few more dms, if I. If you know, do you want more on irvine? Or you know stuff like that that would kind of tell me, hey, you know, there's other people on the opposite side of our stuff and and we probably need to look at this, you know a little closer so, ed question for you. 

42:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Uh, this podcast presented by Pinnacle Sports. Um, we're big fans of the site and we know obviously they're the sharpest bookmaker. Within your service, you usually attach a note that actually includes something that says along the lines of don't bet at pinnacle. Do not bet this at pinnacle. Do you mind actually walking through why you would not recommend or you don't want people to bet at pinnacle? 

43:10 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, it's a rule we have and we might not have it anymore just because it's so difficult to enforce. But the idea is that any site with an auto mover, which is basically Chris and Pinnacle they can only accommodate one bet. So by having that rule, we're only preventing one person from getting that line, so it's not like people can really use it as a reliable place to bet anyways. And the thinking is that if we could slow down that hit at Chris or Pinnacle by 5, 10, however many seconds, it's going to slow down the movement throughout the market and make it easier for everyone to get their bets in elsewhere. So that's the thinking behind it. It's worked really well in practice when we can get people to follow it and enforce it effectively. I'm just not sure if we're going to want to keep finding that battle going forward, but we'll see. 

44:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Understood. So essentially what you're saying is Pinnacle is super sharp and as soon as they move, as soon as they get hit once, they're going to auto move their price from, you know, minus 110 to minus 120. And if Pinnacle stayed at minus 110, there'd be a bunch of other sports books in the world that are actually just copying that price. So if Pinnacle stayed at minus 10, even if those other books got hit 5, 10, 15, 20 bets on the same line same line almost sort of too dumb to actually move it until they see pinnacle move it. So for every 10, 20, 30 seconds you can get pinnacle to hold. That's a big benefit. Have you ever, um, have you ever potentially tried to like partner with a sports book to ensure, maybe, like a line hold for a minute? 

44:49 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
so let's say you grab a sports book, you're like all right, these guys are going to guarantee to hold the line for a minute um, I, we did that briefly a long time ago, um, and I don't think it went very well for the sports book, but it's, it's something that that we really want to kind of pursue going forward here. If it ever gets to a point where you know it's some people can't get the number anymore, we definitely would not want to entertain that possibility. 

45:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Fair enough. Um, we do have you here, ed, and um, I I mean, the reason you're on episode number 100 is both myself and Johnny really respect what you do. Um, a lot of people will rag on on pick services. I used to run one myself. I tried to do it in the most transparent way possible and I appreciate your honesty and transparency throughout everything. I wanna get into how a casual better an average better can evaluate a pick service and other pick makers that are out there in the space. So I'll throw it over to you as someone who's in this space. Let's say you were going to go out and purchase picks from somewhere else. As an example, what would be some red flags of things that you would certainly say I do not want to buy picks from this person, and what would be some things where you would almost always look for and say I need this, as you know on the checklist, and I need to be able to check this off before I'd consider giving this person my money? 

46:20 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Okay, that's a good question. I think it just kind of starts with, like what, what gives the person an edge? So, like I'm sure you get a lot of messages or DMs People want to work for you, work for us, or whatever, what they want for your role, this and that. And almost all the time they can't get past my first question, which is what gives you an edge? And they just they don't. They don't even know what I mean, whether they have one or not. They don't know how to answer the question and like, just give me something. 

47:00
Like you know, you beat the market injuries, you, uh, you line shop. I mean, like there's got to be something that's giving you an edge, um, and so I I think that's like the first thing I want to know is like, like, what is this person doing that's giving them an edge? Is it, you know, is their model picking up something? Is it? Are they projecting tempo better than everyone else? Are they, you know, are they specializing in a league or a conference? That that, you know, not many people are? 

47:21
Um, I, I want to know what is giving them an edge, and and that that's, like, I think, the basic thing, and and there's so much stuff out there now where you see all this content uh, you know, predictions, picks, whatever it is, and these write-ups that people put out there. And it's not just I mean we've talked about bet percentages before like it's not just that anymore, that that it's, it's, it's. It's. Usually it's one of two things it's it's something that the market already factored in, or it's something the market doesn't care about, and so I'm looking for something that the market cares about that isn't factored in. Basically how I would put that in a nutshell. 

48:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Interesting Now on top of that. So I just want to get to some things that personally I find as red flags, and you tell me whether or not you agree or not. But for me the biggest thing me and Johnny, I think we're very confident people. Sometimes it comes off as arrogance Apologies to the audience for that or whatever, but I feel like I have an innate ability to go scan through someone's Twitter timeline and probably within 10 tweets tell you whether or not that person is a winning or losing better. And that's just from my experience in the space. 

48:46
But for me, one of the biggest giveaways or dead giveaways to me is the actual timing of the bets themselves. So sometimes and I'll just give a clear example LeBron James might be out entire market steams and then someone will give out that play a half hour after the market has already steamed and like that to me is a dead giveaway. So for me, I mean definitely like the write-up, stuff that you mentioned is absolute. Like you know, you'll see the trends that are in the write-ups as well as mentioned is absolute. Like you know, you'll see the trends that are in the write-ups, as well as stuff, exactly like you said, that either the market doesn't care about or is already factored in. But I think people can learn so much by just understanding the timing of the bet itself and what that tells about someone who's giving out picks. 

49:32 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Right, and that's also a big indicator on whether or not they could. You could follow the pick, but, but, but I think it's like if someone's releasing early in a market, um, they're more likely to be winning. So like that would actually catch my interest a little more than someone that was releasing and something was that was, you know, more or less unbeatable. So so yeah, for sure, I think that that's a great point. 

49:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean, for me it's like if, if Pikachu bets is out there and he's ragging on someone for releasing overnights, that person's probably winning, like that's another it's. It's like whenever the sharp community gets really mad at someone for releasing bets early or like hey, why are you posting it? That's probably a good sign that that person is tailable and what they're doing is winning. So it's like these little things and how people interact with one another. 

50:21
Um, but I also wanted to specifically ask you about bet stamp, because when we launched bet stamp and when I first joined the team, I was a year after Johnny and Julian co-founded it, but we had like this initiative in place of we're going to reach out to every tout that we possibly can, every pick service that we can, and we're going to try to onboard them to BetStamp to track, and I would say we had a very low success rate with doing that. But you were immediately one person that was like sign me up, let's figure out a way for this to happen. Why was that so important for you to have some sort of third party verification? 

51:01 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Well, I mean, it's just obvious you want, you know, you want to be able to point to a third party, like you said, a third party verified record, because I mean, if you go to any top website, it's going to say that we win, right. I mean, everyone, everyone, no one's going to say, oh, you know, we don't really win. So, if you can, if you can say you win, but then also have proof of it, you know, I think it goes a long way in your credibility. So so, yeah, we definitely been. You know, we use best app, we, we have benefited from it and yeah, all right, yeah, I think another. 

51:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Another thing that we do there is like all the picks are there, right? So when you look at a guy's record or you know it's how it's record and it's on a regular site, it doesn't necessarily have all of the picks the time that that pick was given out, what the line was at the time. Like you can literally just go on Bet stamp and see. You know within reason exactly what the clv is. Also, over a certain sample for what you can slice and dice it up. So it makes a big difference if you're actually looking to buy picks. I've said this from the start. Nothing against actually buying picks. 

52:07
In some cases buying picks will make you a lot of money, um, but it's very rare and there are a lot of checkpoints. So so you know going through stuff like this. And then also you know one other thing I really want to make note of here is if there's a, if there's a tout who you see making content or was on a interview or anything like that, they can't answer any questions they don't really know about. You know even kind of like, where their bets stem from If they're just citing stuff like oh yeah, I got the lakers because this, this and this and this and this, and it doesn't really make sense like they're probably going to lose. If there's someone who's like, yeah, we got. Like, for example, like ed's doing here, like I'm not really going to give you guys shit, but like I'll kind of talk about how it works. If there's, it's actually more likely that he wins in this scenario and I know it seems counterintuitive, but it's funny how it works, you know. 

53:00 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, so I'm just going to add more like onto the write-up part of it. Like you know, it's not just bad percentage, but now it's like shot quality is one of the new ones that people like to quote, or like they get these synergy match up stuff and and I don't know. It's just. I just think it's a lot of stuff in there that's being represented. A lot of people are representing stuff as as meaningful information. It sounds sharp, whatever it is, and it's just not and and, and I think that's kind of a big problem with content in the space so that that's really good point. 

53:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
and it is challenging to produce good content in the sports betting space and, you know, the definition of good content is open to interpretation and what I think is good content is going to be completely different than what my friends think, and so on and so forth, and people consume betting content for different reasons. 

53:54
It would be inherently challenging, ed, for me to do an NFL show on a weekly basis and just sit there and say, oh I like the Cowboys in the game because I make the line six and the market is at four. You know it's, why is that number six? So what I really emphasize, or try to emphasize, is why I'm getting to that number and where I think I may doing something that is differentiating from market, and that's kind of what I really focus my content on. I don't know if it's the most interesting in the space. Some people, I think, probably just hate that or they don't understand it or it doesn't resonate with them. But to me this is the foundational shift that needs to happen in content to make it relevant going forwards, because and maybe that's that's built in, but it seems too much like the existing content space is just stating facts rather than like applying, you know, future prognostications to sports basically I agree, very well fed pet peeves for you in the space. 

55:14
I know you're a guy. I've been in the RAS discord since it first started. I highly recommend, if no one's, if you haven't checked it out, you do check it out. You know it's a discord, it's great, but there's a sense of community within there. You've been outspoken on Twitter, Ed. You've been outspoken in there. Biggest pet peeves for you in the sports betting space now. 

55:34 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
I'm afraid, I'm afraid I might've used them all already. Um, let's see, what haven't we talked about yet? Um, I mean, I'm not just going to reiterate. The same one that I talked about earlier was with the, uh, the, the people in the space who don't have their work out there. I mean that's that. 

55:53
I think that's kind of my, my favorite one, like at this very moment, and it's just like. 

55:59
I mean, for example, like you bet hockey, if, if you had to tell the world or your competitors in the market 10 minutes before you, hey everyone, I'm going to, I'm going to put my hockey bets in 10 minutes before you. 

56:13
Um, hey, everyone, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put my hockey bets in 10 minutes. Like, would that put you at a disadvantage? Because I, because I think I think it would, and like how I mentioned, how our list, our list starts at 20 and and by the time it's time to release, it might be down to eight. After we send the warning that eight might go down to six and and those might be two of our best plays. So, like the, the, the level of difficulty of putting yourself out there under these conditions, um, I don't, I just think it's very underappreciated and you know, I I wish that more of the professional bearers out there would do it more and, kind of you know, get a taste of it well, I mean, I'm, I'm interested in in in that topic in general and putting yourself out there, because you've always been a pretty quiet, behind the scenes type of guy. 

57:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I remember when I first met you I was talking with Jeff within your team and I actually had mentioned to him about potentially having you on Circles Off. And I don't want to misquote him or anything, but it was along the lines of, like Ed's probably not going to ever do that type of thing. And here you are, episode 100 doing it. What has made you become more of a public figure figure in recent years? 

57:32 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
yeah, I mean, this is my first time ever ever being on on camera on a on any kind of content. So, uh, yeah, he, wow, the debut he was, uh, he was, he wasn't wrong there. But uh, I mean, I think it's just, I think it's just where things are going. Um, you know, we we brought on adam churnoff and and he's done a lot of good content for us and we can see the impact that it has on our business and so you know, if it works, then you know we're going to do it, we're going to keep doing more of it. And so, yeah, I got to kind of get out there more. 

58:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Wow, you got to market yourself more to compete with the TikTokers and the Instagrammers and everything else. That's right. That's right, Ed. Before we let you go, I do want to give you an opportunity to promote your Discord a little bit. I do think it's a very valuable resource for all types of bettors and I honestly think it's really well. 

58:29
You know I've been part of forums in the past and a lot of you know before Discord different slacks in the past and a lot of you know before discord different slacks in the betting space and, typically speaking, these tend to devolve into people just hating and and absolutely destroying each other on a daily basis. And one thing about your discord in particular I'm not going to say that's never happened before, because there are heated arguments, but for the most part, things are constructive in there. So, first and foremost, I mean, how have you guys been able to accomplish that in this space? For one Cause honestly, I didn't really think it was accomplishable for a long time, especially putting a lot of sharper bettors in the same community and to just let people know how they can get involved and be a part of it. 

59:22 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, it's bettingtalkcom. We'll take you to the discord link. We started during the pandemic and I think that might have been something that kind of really got it off the ground. But yeah, there's just like. There's like their own little communities within the community. You have people in the politics channel that just are in there all day. You got people on the golf channel that have their own you know group there that you know a lot of them follow that. 

59:41
Uh ad in there, um, and then you have us in there giving free picks and and stuff like that. And and uh, elihu is in there, you know, dispensing a lot of information to you know whatever questions come, come there, and you know he's, he's super sharp. Eddie walls is in there, you know, dispensing a lot of information to you know whatever questions come, come there and you know he's, he's super sharp. Eddie walls is in there. He has his blog, um. 

01:00:01
So I mean there's just a lot of good people in there that are contributing and I mean, like to be honest, like once sports started back up and and we got back in the swing of things, like we didn't really spend as much time in there as we kind of had planned to or hoped to, and we're kind of surprised that it was able to sustain itself and and, uh, you know, keep going and keep growing without much interaction from us, like we're kind of we're a little embarrassed sometimes on how you know little we get to go in there sometimes. So so, yeah, no, it's been fun, it's been good so, ed, how can people sign up for the service? 

01:00:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And I'm assuming if they use promo code CIRCLES off the 10-3 picks. What's the deal here? What do you got going on right now? 

01:00:45 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
We don't have anything going on right now we are. We did a couple USFL releases in the Discord the past couple weeks. We'll probably keep doing that. Maybe some WNBABA stuff like that in the off season. We don't have any products up for next year. We're still kind of putting those together and on what they're going to look like. But we'll have NFL and college football. You know, hopefully in the next month or so we'll have something up. 

01:01:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay. Sounds good, we will make sure we plug that in the in the link for the description. We will make sure we plug that in the link in the description. Ed, our closing question. It's the same one we asked all of our guests here on Circles Off. So, first off, thank you for coming on and second off, if you could go back five years and speak to a previous version of yourself, what advice would you give your former self? 

01:01:35 - Ed Golden (Right Angle Sports) (Guest)
Yeah, thanks for having me, and I mean, I've been thinking about this one and I like the easiest answer for me is I just, I want to get a bigger, a bigger kiosk that we're going before. I don't. I feel like we didn't really take advantage of that as well as some other groups did. So, yeah, if I went back, I would. I would definitely focus more on that. 

01:01:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
His name is Okay. 

01:01:55
Interesting. Yeah, I mean I, I that went back. I would. I would definitely focus more on that. His name is okay. Interesting, yeah, I mean I, I. That was not a response I expected, but we get all sorts of responses here at in the closing question. Uh, most people just say that I would. They would have bought bitcoin if they could go back five years. But yeah, um, it's a group of pro sports bettors, right angle sports. You can follow them on twitter at ras picks betting talkcom for the Discord Handicappernet as well, where you can check out all of their stuff. Ed Golden, thank you very much for joining us. For all of you out there, if you liked this episode, make sure you smash that like button. Make sure you're subscribed to the Circles Off channel. If you watch us on a regular basis and you're not subscribed yet, hit the subscribe button. It literally takes you two seconds. Make sure you do that. We'll be back with more content next week. This has been circles off episode number 100.