00:00 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
You know I had Check for Change. I don't know if you guys remember that. Like whatever, like it would like, if, if Check for Change. 

00:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah do you remember that? No, I didn't use this. Johnny wasn't even born with Check for Change. 

00:11 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Yeah, right, it's like you highlight what you want, so I would highlight the whole page and then, if it changed it would, you would hear Ch-Ch-Changes by byanges, by David. 

00:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Bowie. 

00:22 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Come on, let's go. You think I'm going to come on here and put one of the Aussies in the elite tier. I'd vote for Rob of $25,000. I wouldn't vote for him. I can basically just cheat and get the same bets that they're getting. 

00:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's weird because you can also pay your bills at the same place where you bet. I mean, you're a short guy, what? 

00:46 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
This guy talks a lot of trash. He's talked a lot of trash about me, rob, a lot of people in the community, but he's refusing to show his face. 

00:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Clouding yourself as a pretty good NFL gambler. I thought you were an idiot. Say testing, testing. I'm a cuck. One, two, three, four. 

01:00 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Aussies Going head tohead with the Aussies. That's what I drew before and I said get him. 

01:04 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Kirk. 

01:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And they call me a mean-spirited name. 

01:07 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I don't hang out with them. 

01:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The Toronto Maple Leafs at 14-1, staring me dead in the face. 

01:21
I'm already getting a lot of early. This could be the best Circles Off episode that's ever been done. Welcome to Circles Off episode number 171, here part of the hammer betting network and presented, as always, by pinnacle sportsbook. Football season is in full swing right now, which is why we wanted to bring you a great football guest, someone who really specializes in nfl and college betting, so we're gonna have joey tunes coming up on the program in a few minutes. Here we do have a change in the studio, in johnny's section of the studio, taking some feedback. Johnny johnny was upset that some people came up to him at bet bash and said yeah, you look a little taller in person, you look short on the podcast. Part of the reason why is this desk is always crammed with a bunch of stuff, so we put it up on the walls instead, in the background. But we also put a picture up on the wall that has something very special in it. Point it out, tweet it to us at CirclesOffHQ on Twitter and we will give you a Circles Off hoodie if you're the first person to do so. So stay tuned for that. 

02:19
I do want to remind you Pinnacle Sportsbook Great sportsbook to bet on during the football season, now that we have NFL and college football in full swing, you get really fair limits. You get a great product, more props than ever now on Pinnacle as well and a great live betting experience as well. So if you are in Canada, make sure you check out Pinnacle Sportsbook. They've been in business for 25 years for a reason. Use code HAMMER if you do sign up to pinnacle, as it does support us here on circles off, and obviously we want to monetize as much as possible. So use code hammer. You must be 19 plus not available in the us, as always. Please play responsibly. I cannot preach that enough. If you have any gambling problems, make sure you reach out, get support from other people and play responsibly. 

03:05
If you are betting at Pinnacle, our guest this week is a professional sports bettor. He runs a Telegram group that has over 3,000 subscribers where he gives out football plays on the regular and information as well. He previously joined us for an episode number 27 here on circles off. That was audio only back in the day. It's been a long time since we've chatted with him. You can follow him on x at joey tunes 2. Joey tunes joins the show today. Tunes you're looking a lot smaller. 

03:37 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I think that since the last time I saw you, yeah, you know, I'm not trying to spend uh three hours in the gym today now, only uh two football season, you know he was joking. But to spend uh three hours in the gym a day now only uh two football season, you know he was joking, but what, uh? 

03:48 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
what you may have lost in muscle mass weight. I'm sure you may have actually picked up as in chains, because I see this, but eight chains on your neck right now what's going on? 

03:57 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
what's up how you guys doing? 

04:00 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
uh, I guess, for do you just walk around with those chains all day? Is that your? Is that your? 

04:06 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
normal. I actually have to weigh myself, like it's. It's a little over two pounds, wow. You know, when I weigh myself I'm not taking them off all the time, but yeah, yeah, it's like. Uh, I just got appraised like over a hundred thousand and uh and uh necklaces bro, but I was saying I really bought it for the gold aspect. You know, like I'm like cash is doing nothing. You know I might as well semi think I look cool by rocking chains or whatever, and if not, you know I'd resell them for more or whatever. 

04:38 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I like that. Move it into gold and then there you go. If you ever want to get rid of it, it's just gold anyways. 

04:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, no, it's a smart move. You're investing right. 

04:49 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
It's just a form of investment rather than sitting on cash, so I don't mind. Same with watches Like watches. My last watch I wore five years and I sold it for 10,000 more than what I bought it. You know it's like better than cash. You know, btc guy, I think both you guys are too so. 

05:06 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Yeah, I agree there, sitting in cash with nothing there it's really no upside and kind of depreciating every single day when you think of it with inflation. But yeah, absolutely Got to keep enough cash to put it in play every single weekend. Though, speaking of that, how was week one? Nfl college football? How's everything going? 

05:21 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Week zero and week one. College football was good Last week. Not good, especially the plays I gave out. I took a bath I'm hearing it from the angry mob but NFL was really good. Nfl saved us big time, so that was a good start to that. Yeah, nfl's been good the last two, three years, so I'm rolling with it. You know people say it's unbeatable, but I mean we do well. Yeah, so good the last two, three years. So, uh, I'm rolling with it. You know people say it's unbeatable, but I mean we do well yeah. 

05:47 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
So I was gonna ask you about that. A lot of people say nfl sides tough to beat, right. But I'm here, I don't personally bet. Um, you know nfl sides. I'm not the guy who's like originating these and then going through and, um, you know, try to make my numbers, but I know tunes. You've been involved in that game for quite some time, doing, doing really well and Rob, same kind of deal. So I was actually wondering, like as a true question, at what point do you guys think NFL sides is beatable? Like how much effort, how much experience, how much knowledge, how many accounts do you need? Like how can you actually beat it? 

06:19 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I mean I don't know. I've always, when I first started, like I almost felt like whatever you like, as true as this is, whatever you saw the week before like is just totally flip-flopped the next week. You know, like I mean I just glanced today we didn't run the numbers yet for NFL because our proxies broke. It was a nightmare Monday always. But yeah, so we don't do too much like as far as using I think I've seen a little bit of Rob's motto and all Like I mean our college football has a ton of variables. 

06:50
Like our NFL is pretty simple and it seems to work. You know, like not getting too fancy or anything like that. And you know like still that mentality, like you know how they lost last week is a big tell. Like the boxers are a big tell. We use a lot of that, still, as old as that is. But yeah, I mean you know we don't. The problem is, you know, and you guys know, that like the game day accounts it's tough. I give them work, you know, but on a Sunday it's like Pinnacle's taking 100 a click at minus 06. 

07:27 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
It's sunday, it's like pinnacle's taking 100, a click at minus 06. 

07:29 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
It's tough to you know like I get it. I gotta, I gotta give them plays just because you know the account, the bookies, the agents or whatever gonna be like you didn't play anything on sunday and it's like you know, you gotta, you gotta at least give uh something back. You know what I mean? It's like playing blackjack and getting higher sports bets at whatever casino or whatever yeah, I, I listen. 

07:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll be honest with with Toons in the audience, like I don't, I don't really have an edge on NFL Sundays. I don't think you know I do, I'm not. But in some cases, exactly like Toons said, you just kind of use it as a, you play the sides that you like as a, as a, you know, kind of a favor to the, the bookie, and you keep your accounts alive a little bit longer. Most of the stuff that I do is probably Tuesday to Friday over the course of the week, once the final injury reports are out, we run our bets and then that's it. I don't do much more than that. But the nice thing about NFL is the liquidity is always there. There's no challenges, like you know, to each their own, and I'm doing a lot of props now myself as well. But you often find you might have like a really big edge on something and you can get down. But it's with with nfl, I don't even have to really think about it at any point. 

08:31 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I can just go bet wherever I want and I think that's that's just one of the nice things about betting football plus all the trading, like even though, if you wait till sunday, and I mean me and you trade, obviously, obviously, rob, and you know, we're going big free on a lot of stuff. 

08:45
So that edge helps us both. You know you don't have to win 52.4. Like 51% at 100,000 a game is great. You know what I mean. It's a great return. You don't need to have the edge you have on props or 57% or whatever. It's still the ROI is small but the return is great, you know. 

09:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, the ri small, but the return is great, you know, yeah. So, um, you were talking a little bit about your, the process. I'm not going to ask you to give away your secret sauce and how you bet uh college or nfl or anything like that. But out of curiosity, like, do you work with uh, an originator that you trust, who provides you with their numbers, or multiple originators that that give you kind of their numbers? And then, or are you just handicapping this stuff yourself, looking at the board saying I like this, I like that, what? What goes into you giving out your place for the nfl? 

09:31 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
so I still have like my own, like excel, you know, model that I created 15 years ago, 10 years ago, just tweaked it or whatever, like not as advanced as yours, but I I also have a guy that booked in costa for 20 years that we do some stuff together. So he gives me his numbers. He has another model. I pin against mine. Mine are always done early because I'll do them, like you know, sunday night I'll go through everything and stay up. But, um, yeah, like I just like to see his models really good, like outperforming mine, honestly, but you know, mine still wins. It's just like I like to have a, you know, at least a summary or a quick outlook of how it's even setting up, because sometimes Mondays, I think like four games moved a ton already. You know, like I think I guess you know a couple groups paid, but so I kind of take both of them in account. You know, like if we're both on the right side or one side, then I'll just play that more. You know, play that a lot more. 

10:33 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Yeah, so like crowdsourcing opinions in a way you know how much do you guys think would be the edge if you so. Let's say you start NFL Like okay, monday I can potentially win on the look-aheads Tuesday, I can win Tuesday to Friday Rob said it's his thing and I know tunes are doing a lot early week too. What's the edge like Tuesday? And then how much does that go down every day up to Sunday? You guys have an idea of that. What would you estimate? Can you earn 5% on Tuesday or no? 

11:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For me. I'll say I think it depends on it's different for different people. I'll explain why. So we bet Wednesday through Friday primarily. This is and you know I've done some stuff with Toons in the past and he knows you know when we're going to his group and stuff like that because we think that we're very good at processing information relative to other people. One random example this happened on Sunday this week but Russell Wilson's ruled out for the Steelers and the Falcons start to catch some money, not a ton, but the lines, and I'm like, no, this is not like I disagree with that. 

11:36 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I think Fields is better than Wilson, or at least, at the very least, they're equals. 

11:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But on top of that and again, this is like past posting in a sense, because I'm giving like a victory story here, but you have a team that prepped for Russell Wilson all week and they're going to get a different quarterback in the game. 

11:52 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I think that Were the Steelers prepping to play with Wilson. 

11:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
With Fields Well. 

11:57
I don't know Wilson was missing practice, so Fields was taking some reps as well, yeah, so like that type of stuff matters to me. So for me, I think that what we're good at is processing information, or you know, these guys are on the injury report. We can estimate their likelihood of being out, their likelihood of being in doing that stuff. Some other people are not good with that. They were. They're just better off betting early in the week and just you know, at some point injuries are going to work with you or against you. So I think depends on the person. I don't know if you agree with that or not, toons. 

12:27 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Yeah, I love that. Take honestly, I mean right, like people, russell Wilson not really that much better than Fields, if at all right. And then you got the practice, like you said, to prep him for someone different. I think, like all those kind of injury moves are just like a little bit you know that they're prepping for someone different. I think, like all those kind of injury moves are just like a little bit you know too much sometimes, like even the games today. I'm like I don't have both sets yet I have mine, but like there's two games that already stood out to me I didn't do anything with them yet. I'm going to wait and see if it holds up. To'll probably agree with or you know, it's that same same thought process or whatever I think got it now, how early are you willing to go in a week? 

13:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
so we're recording this on monday, this is going to come out on thursday, but let's just I'll give you a random example. Uh, this happens all the time in college or NFL. Let's say, next weekend, the weather reports look terrible on the East Coast. Across the board it looks like you know the hurricane's coming in, there's going to be wind games and stuff like that. You know that those numbers are going to move. It's going to happen, naturally. Would you guys go out early on that type of info, or do you think that that juice isn't worth the squeeze? 

13:46 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Yeah, no, not not a week early, like monday, you, I mean, we're really trying to hold the college football and nfl to, like, you know, at least thursday nfl you could actually get money down. It's not terrible, you know, but the problem with that is going too early is, you know, then we spend a lot of credit at these accounts and can't roll it over. We can't get all the college football in on Saturday, and then you know the FCS is around and and and once, all four sports in October. We're really, really conservative and so it's like and the money I have out in Vegas and New Jersey, it's like constant, like is the 10 really worth it to spend the money or should we wait? 

14:22
You know, but as far as like weather, weather like that always moves, no matter what. So we try and do a monday because you know it's if we could get what we could get, it's better than nothing. But it's not going to be there. So it's just like any, no matter what line they put out, if there's a hurricane game, like the under is getting slammed, it doesn't matter if it's 33 or 39 or you know whatever. So you're kind of just like you know, it's like a boat race, basically. So we have to just do that, even if it's whatever 10 grand or whatever five grand, whatever you notice that he said uh, in october you got all four sports going. 

14:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Absolute disrespect to the national hockey league right there, definitely not a hockey. I actually don't get there, I don't even know what I meant. There's guys in your group that are definitely hockey guys. 

15:09 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
There's one of your guys has a Flyers logo. 

15:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

15:12 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I don't even go by sport, though I go by league League's way better Because, like college, football and NFL are still like two biggest for betting right, even though it's like same sport. And then obviously you have like baseball, hockey and then basketball. But I'm saying like, who even cares? Oh, baseball's a monster. Yeah, who even cares about hockey and baseball in October? 

15:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's like a couple games or whatever. Well, I'm curious if Tunes like you were betting baseball this summer, correct? 

15:39 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Not really too much a little bit. We were kind of just helping out. I was really too much a little bit. We were kind of just helping out. I was really just focused on like hodgepodge. A lot of my guys did most of it. I just find those big money lines like you're the only person I know there's a couple groups playing hockey, but you know like outside of that I just those 20 cent lines or I know baseball is a little better, hockey is always 20 cents pretty much, but it just seems like it's just a lot of grind for a little bit of return. I don't know Like, I know you do well with hockey, but I mean it's not. I love hockey Like I was a diehard Panthers fan for the last two years just because my son likes them, but I mean all the games. I love the playoffs, the sport of it, but you know, as far as betting, it's definitely not one of our top and it draws draws like no action. You know no one's calling to get down really hockey, honestly. 

16:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, so would you. Is it safe to say that once football rolls around, like we're in first few weeks of season here, that that's basically you know. You're focused in on that and not much else. 

16:36 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Yeah, pretty much. Even leading up to it is like just big prep, especially with the portal. Now that was like crazy. But one of them, one of the guys at the office, developed like a player model, you know, and now we have everything accounted for and uh. So I mean, it's like I said probably on whatever podcast before, but the college football is just a whole another animal now as far as like using those old tricks like returning starters, and that is kind of like almost thrown out the window now. It's so different so it takes all those months to prepare. 

17:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's so much more are you guys doing much in terms of live for football or any second half stuff nowadays? 

17:17 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
um, we, we actually uh, we have a live, uh, live bot that we developed like, uh, probably like last january or something. So, um, you know we've been tinkering with that, not our main thing, but it's great roi, you know like, but it's just hard to get down on the live. You know it's really hard everywhere now. It's like, you know, with people are either court siding, so they don't trust it, which I don't blame them, like it's got such a dirty, you know name for so long that. But I think like the pph has got better. You know like they, they really they're, they're like almost like a slow. You know like, um, bet 365 or something they use like pretty much at that. But they got a little better. 

18:01
And you know, for us it's like I'll sacrifice a little bit of ROI just to really get like the bigger pops. I think Like or that's just my hard-headedness, but I love like what everybody's doing. Now, you know I was always so anti-props, anti-live, you know like I don't know, just like a pride thing or something. But you know now it's like shoot, like maybe we should. You know we dabble, we, we work with a couple of people like and it's like, you know, having all these accounts. It really adds up, you know, and we're in a a good spot in that sense. You know, like, thanks to all my partners that bring the accounts, and they get a piece of the two, so works out for everybody. 

18:42 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
What would you say is like the biggest change? I'd say not even this year. I'm not looking for like a specific year, but you've been in this game for a while, so let's say, 10 years ago, these pphs were like super easy to be. You know, maybe that's the game now, with everything the way it is. What's the biggest change in difficulty? 

18:59 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
um, it's really like as bland as this answer is going to be, it's like the, the info, and you know. It's like everybody knows. Like they're either passing accounts or you know people are entering the space that are super smart and now there's so many more originators than you know. Like way back then the PPH has got a little bit better. I mean, you have your, like you, you know johnny or even rob, like there's specific guys that only could use, like you know, like certain sites or whatever. 

19:31
Oh, give me the wager shacks and all the actions like where you know for us. People ask us like well, what do you win at? We're like we'll take anything you know like as long as it's not like cloud flare or you know something like that on it. But, um, yeah, yeah. So I think overall, everything got better. But the info is so much better now. Like the injuries are really hard to catch now and even though we have readers and Twitter refreshing and you know programs that alert us with injuries and spank outs, whatever that it's just like everybody has that now you know. So it's a lot harder in that sense. 

20:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's interesting you say that. So when I was at Bet Bash this year there was a conversation that was happening with a group of guys about right-angle sports. Ras is still pretty respected in market. They release a play. It generally steams for the most part, even including one they released on NFL Sunday into full limits. The number still steams for the most part, even including one they released on NFL Sunday into full limits. Number still steams. One person said to me I think RAS has lost their edge because the info is more of a balanced playing field now and back in the day they probably got great info and they could capitalize on it. But now in this new age everyone's getting the same stuff and maybe they just they think that they still have the same edge as previous years, but it's not there. Do you think that that like? 

20:53 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
might explain the results I think even with us too, we used to get like really good injury news and but now it's just so relevant everywhere. You know, like, um, even people that I used to pay on the side to give me info like are getting hired like because I mean, my business isn't really like a corporate business, but like places like unabated and action network are picking up guys that I used to, you know, hand cash just to give them, give me, uh, us injury info. Now they're being picked up by all these places and and it's going right to like the media. So it's really hard when we're doing like, we're doing a hundred things at once and it's it's just another thing to keep track of the injuries, like if we do our best. But this, you know, a guy that just is focused on injury and really knows that much and you know like depth charts to that degree is just, you know, much better. But it definitely definitely got harder. 

21:50
The thing, the thing that is like I mean I do too, but like raz still moves games so much because there's 10 000 people following at once and these places literally circuit goes from four to six, you know, and these places just light up and take off Like now. It's like anybody can release a game and you've got enough followers that the books are forced to move, even if this guy's a winner, a loser, whatever. I mean even my games, like. I mean we hit the board, obviously, but it's not all us. I'll hit Chrisris. It goes minus four to minus 23, and then it's like 39 and you know so, and then they adjust and it goes to six. It's like just a parade of bets that they have to protect themselves against uh, I, I hear this, I I so I remember week one in the season you were opposite knish on, uh, on a game. 

22:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Can't remember the game SMU, I think it was SMU where you gave it out. Then he gave it out on hit the books and all of our followers bet it and it moved against you and you end up winning the bet and but you're like I honestly don't care nowadays because there's so many people out there that the following is big. They'll move the number. Do you? Do you still put as much stock into the closing price nowadays as you did a few years ago? 

23:08 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
no, not even close. And I remember asking you this, probably like we had the discussion, like just through whatever chat, like how relevant it is, I mean, and even back then it was way more relevant, like even like know, this week, same thing, I think, Hitman put out plus four on Carolina, I had minus four. Saints Close three and a half, Absolute shelling. You know what I mean. So it's not everything. You still got to account for it. 

23:34
But, like I said, when you know certain people that you know went from like just touting to now giving out all these plays and they're moving the lines, it's almost like like Raz is always going to beat CLV, most likely Like last week a lot of it closed, like at least even or you know, back at where it started, type thing. Because when the heavy hitters come in, you know I love when I'm opposite Raz, I feel like I get like two, three points, you know, and it's it's not him doing, like he may take the original number, which is fine for him, but it's those people that are like desperate and they pay for the service and it's like well, you know I got to I can't get my money's worth. 

24:12
I'll take minus three and a half, whatever. You know what I mean. And then it just keeps going and going and it creates more value. And there's so many arbors now too. That's the other thing, it's thing, it's you can. Only you know, a game can only run so far. I feel. 

24:24 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Now there's always going to be playbacks, and and arbor is taking the minus four and plus six or whatever I've always said this, like when people think all these numbers have moved too far, especially in regards to the rast stuff, at the end of the day, like that could only happen for a slight, a short amount of time, and by that I mean like it can only happen for a couple months or like maybe one season, they get away with it. But at the end of the day, if someone's just going to do the analysis, someone like me or other people who are just like looking for any edge they can find, are going to be like, oh, these are moving way too far. When it hits this point, I can play it back. And with these RAS play essentially the sharp books that are not going to limit you, for example, our show sponsor Pinnacle. 

25:06
I strongly recommend even playing these acts, they're so friendly. A lot of these books will be like oh no, can't play this, can't play this. Pinnacle will take anything, any play, it doesn't matter if you got it from RAS Toons or you know X losing tout service, it doesn't matter, they'll take whatever play. So in these scenarios, if they're going forward and you think that's an edge to play back these RAS, you can just get that for a decent pop without being limited, without having to worry about accounts, accounting, any of that stuff, it's there. So for an actual sharp, it's so easy to just play these back, which is why I'm even more inclined to think that whatever the closing price is on that game, that's pretty accurate, even if it's moved three points because someone would have played that back. 

25:49 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
There's too many people in the world betting yeah, too many betters now yeah, way too many respect the market still, you know you just it's always you know it's still a big market and right, like models are constantly going against each other where it'll just lead off, but that following pushes it so much that I mean and, and People are playing them back though. 

26:10 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Like they get they, they get played back. It's not like they're just getting steamed into oblivion whatever, but they do get. They do get hit and then they get played back. So what I'm saying is, because of that playback, I'm personally inclined to think that whatever the closing price is on those RAS games let's say for this year now, Because it's been for a couple years when people had time to adjust Is relatively accurate. I feel confident in saying that actually it's relatively accurate. 

26:35 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I agree, but the only thing is, is that, like Us, or people you guys know, or whatever, we don't always want to? Like I say online, show our tits us. Or like you know, people you guys know, or whatever, we don't always want to. You know, like I say on online, like, show our tits. Like I don't mind, like giving a couple plays out to feed me, but like we want the market to relatively stay in check. 

26:53
You know, or, like you said, all these accounts and everybody's hip, now bookies aren't as dumb as they used to be, to where? I mean, if I looked at account and I saw a razz move, a razz move, a Raz move, you know they're shutting it down, you're not getting paid, it's just a headache on the partner and the bookie and the better. So I mean it's always going to get back down. But like, come game day or whenever, when we try and not like disturb the market, it's almost impossible now, with spies and leaky stuff that I cry about on Telegram or whatever. Now, with spies and and leaky stuff that I cry about on telegram or whatever, but, um, you know, like that's the only thing that I you know. 

27:30
I agree, but disagree in that sense because the money is still moved like underneath at the end, you know, because the market's like as big as it is on screen is not that big, you know, like I mean, true, chris is 10k pennies, 10k, 5k, whatever you know, so it's like the big groups. That's really not nothing, you know honestly what's crazy is uh, you have to. 

27:55 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
In order to win, you need to be able to get accounts and bet more. In order to get accounts and bet more, you have to essentially show that you could win to other people so you can get a bigger network. But then when you show people that you can win, then there's a lot of people that are going to try to blow it up and earn for themselves. So it's just a cat and mouse game. That's a different problem a lot of people don't have in the industry. But if you're listening to this, that is actually the reality. Like, in order to scale, you have to prove to people that you can win, and when you prove to someone you can win, they're going to want a piece of that or they love clv, or they'll try to cut you out. 

28:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
In a lot of cases. Like you prove to someone that you can win on like I don't know random example, but like sgps and you're you're working with, then somebody's just going to try to reverse engineer what you're doing and keep the stake for them like it is a dog eat dog well, that's why when people say, like you mentioned, oh, this guy's like, oh yeah, I need this type of account. 

28:49 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
If you're saying you need this type of account, then that means your edge is like very, very clear, exactly what you're doing. So if you, if someone gives you an account and you play three plays, they're going to know exactly did they don't need you anymore. It's, you should not. 

29:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You should not be doing that it's like the guy who reaches out to you and you're like, oh, I'm a great live bettor, I need bet fast action. It's like, yeah, okay, I know what live betting you're doing. It's very clear. And then you know I know exactly. 

29:14 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Or even if someone's like, oh, I need like I don't know XYZ regulated account, I need this, I need to get this account account, I need this, I need to get this account. Um, you could like, yeah, it's very. It's going to be extremely obvious if they're playing the exact same same game parlay, that's only available at that one shop, where it's like, okay, this guy over, this guy under, this guy over and then it's like, whatever I'm giving an example, but qb over, running back under, running back over on this and then like, okay, here we go, you're eventually going to get that stolen. So be careful. If you have edges, you got to either work with reputable people who don't have a history of that, or you need to just keep it to yourself, because a lot of times when you give that out, you might earn well for a couple of weeks and then that might go to zero. 

29:59 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Yeah, usually, like a lot of, I know a lot of partners give me one account just to see what's going on, or tail late or whatever. But they don't understand how, like I mean, we have to go all at once or it doesn't work. I mean, we've tried testing so many times already this year and it's almost impossible to see like who's following, who who spies. Everybody has back ends and tickers. Now it's like I know guys don't even realize it because they're noobs or whatever, but when they like we have a 500 dollar caesar that moves, like it moves caesars, like it's just like. So now I just take advantage of that, obviously, but you know I'll just put fakes in there. But, um, yeah, like these guys that help us move, like silent, like we have a bunch of chats or whatever. You know they play a big Buckeye and so many people have access to that or they see it on their account and they're just, you know, ruthless and take Chris a penny right away. You know, like that's like Bush League to me. You know I hate, like you want the games, but help us move. 

31:00
I understand everybody has to earn, like nobody's doing anything for free, especially with big money on the line. But like, I mean, please don't ruin the market, for to them, maybe the 5000 is great, to us, it ruins. It ruins us and this is why we have to use bots, we have to. We get labeled as steam or whatever. I mean, it's, it's just us. You know steaming and which is another thing like the partners love to see that they love, like everybody loves the steam. Like you know, the guys on twitter love it, like clv and oh my god, he moved to two points and brad, you know whatever and it's like, but you know it's, it's the worst thing for longevity. 

31:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know it is the worst, but well, I mean, it's one way of of proving that you have influence and and you're right, nowadays people like to see that. I mean we're conditioned. I've always been conditioned. Um, you know, since I actually became a good, better to to trust the clothes and like, when somebody gives me you know how many times I get somebody who messages me on on telegram on the weekend. 

32:00
It's like, oh, sharp, play college football, like go and hit this, and then I don't bet it. And Saturday, the same numbers. On the weekend it's like, oh, sharp, play college football, like go and hit this, and then I don't bet it. And Saturday, the same numbers on the board. I'm like this guy's an idiot. What sharp play because that's the way I'm conditioned nowadays is is based off of the close. So I think it kind of has to happen now for at least like the rec plus and semi-sharp got, like the guys who understand. Now, if you give out a play and nothing happens, you kind of lose credibility after a while when that's happening over and over and over. So I get that it sucks because you're going to lose accounts in that way, but it's a double-edged sword because you get credibility out of it. 

32:42 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Yeah, I know, and it's still like. I like the touting is more respected than it was, like you know, five, ten years ago, because there's actually guys with people behind them and influence that move the lines. But I mean it's like still like. I went to this party or whatever had a bunch of touts. They like, uh, I don't know, they host like a bunch of touts. They like, I don't know, they host like a bunch of touts. They get a cut of it and you have to pay for the tout service through them. 

33:11
But a lot of guys I met at the party were like they really don't bet. They take tickets from the internet and, and, just you know, dummy them up and put them as theirs. And these guys are making big money. I was talking to them what's your town? I'm like I can't sell my soul yet you know like, and. But I mean they're making like 25,000 a month. This kid didn't even. He came. One kid told me he's like I don't even know how you, because I was sweating the games and he's like I don't stomach losing all that money. And I was like, yeah, that's amazing, You're a talent, you have 20,000 followers or whatever. 

33:47 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Yeah, those guys. It's marketing though. 

33:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But also that's one of the criticisms of touts, right, like I've always been of the opinion and obviously I used to run prediction machine for a year, so I've been a tout at one point or another but I've always been of the opinion that you know you're free to do whatever you want to do. You should just do it in like an honest and transparent way. Right, the whole marketing of like oh I'm, you know nine and one in my last 10 CFL plays, or whatever, when you're actually you know 45 and 50 in your last 100, it's very misleading. I don't like that aspect of the business, but misleading. I don't like that aspect of the business. But to each their own, I think, if you're doing it honestly and transparently. 

34:28
One of the issues, though, is exactly what you bring up, which is people are like well, you're just passing on the risk to your clientele. Like, if you're not betting this stuff yourself and you're not going hard on this stuff yourself, why should I? Why should other people pay for it? That's also one of the issues that I have with the state of touting nowadays. Like some of these guys who are giving out plays are not even betting the shit themselves. They don't even like give out numbers attached to it, and there's people that are unsuspecting of this that go and buy that stuff. That that's one of the big issues. 

35:03 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
But he actually said that. He said, yeah, I let them have their own numbers because I don't know what they have. And then he showed me that he had Buffalo minus 5.5, minus 130, and I was just like, oh, yeah, no, it's absolutely nuts. 

35:19 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
But at the end of the day I think I've said it before it's with every industry right that you want to be buying stuff from people that actually do that thing. It's no different than buying, like, a workout plan from a trainer. If he's a fat guy you're not going to want to buy his workout plan. 

35:32 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
That's what I say about doctors. I'm like you ever go see your physician and he's like I think you should do this and this. And I'm is like I'll beat the fuck out of this guy. Right now he's got a white coat on. That's the only difference you know, but like I don't know. 

35:53 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
That's. That's funny and very true. That's scary Right now, honestly. Yeah, a lot of people they're going to tell you like get on this med. And then you're looking at them. You're like I don't know if I should trust what this guy's saying. 

36:03 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Doesn't look too healthy, yeah yeah, um, but I mean I think I picked up such a big following, like rob said, was just because, like they know, I have influence over the market. So, like you know that I really am invested. You know, like if you lose, believe me, I fucking lose, like you know, like yeah, so I mean it's and and and I hate I'm like too honest that we're like even I give numbers, I feel guilty, like I try and give a half a point or something too, just if it's still good. You know, obviously you lose some value, but like I mean even razz today it's so hard. I mean, like you know, we don't even we can't even do it anymore. It's just so bad for accounts and it's messing up all the board and it's one number on a Monday and they just pull it or just immediately move it. Two points it's hard, but at least he has the influence. I know he really bets because I know they'll get PPH accounts. That seems to be the key to things. 

37:00 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
If you're not in our tight circle or you don't want pph accounts, then probably not like real so you need, you need, if you want to bet the rast plays, you need an account where you could bet the rast plays without getting cut off, and it's it's increasingly harder to get those. But it's not smart to put your rast plays into your standard sports book that you've been using because they're going to get CLV, they're not going to win at a crazy high rate where it's like, okay, well, despite getting CLV, I'll make so much money off this, I don't care and and yeah, it's going to, it's going to get you cut off, yeah. 

37:37 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I agree with that. Even like RAS, includes his, his, you know, overall winning percent from like 1999. I mean, listen, that's like saying Babe Ruth is better than whatever, Like A-Rod, you know. It's like way different times. Man, Me, Rob, you, we all won way better 1999, I was beating bookies from scores and odds with a two-minute delay. I mean not rocket science, you know. 

38:06 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
It's like now it's way. What were you doing? Like you're? 

38:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
you're beating bookies from using scores and odds. The site would be the website that we used to use to check like essentially a score mobile type website. Yeah it was just like a, a consensus number, and it used to move and it would yeah, it would move 20 minutes. 

38:20 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
yeah, so I'm just like, and I was already like offshore at that point, so you know I had check for change on, if you guys remember that, like whatever, like it would like if you could highlight. 

38:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, do you remember that? No, I didn't use this. Johnny wasn't even born with check for change. 

38:37 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Yeah, right, it's like you highlight what you want. So I would highlight the whole page and then if it changed, it would you would hear to changes by by David Bowie. And so I would look and I'd be like Kentucky minus you know three, and I check scores and odds minus one or something you know, and these were big batters back then, like they actually could get down, like MGM would take crazy money and all. So yeah, I mean, it was as simple as that, you know. Now it's way different, you know like. So I can't compare what we did back then. I wasn't even tracking. It was like you know me learning and just blind following, probably huge groups, you know at that point. 

39:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll tell you how stupid of a better I was back in the day this is just bringing back memories. 

39:24
Sometimes I actually like to share these stories because it shows how far I've come, since I was an idiot kid. But back in the day, when stuff like scores and odds would move and I would have my PPH account my one PPH account that I would bet into that had a different number, I would actually convince myself that the other side was the right side because I wanted to be like part of the bookies side of things. You know what I'm saying Like, oh, these guys always so whenever there was a move or like it moved too far from the opener like, say, an NFL game move from minus four to minus six. 

39:59
Only fade the steam I would take the plus six every time because the bookies sent out a minus four. They thought the right number was four. The public is betting this out to six. 

40:10 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I need to be on the same side you could probably do that for a max of one season before you realize that you're done oh no, you're. 

40:16 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Yeah, I mean. The only problem is you're 20 cents behind the bookie, though you know exactly you're taking the the highest number at minus 110. 

40:23
He's booking plus 110. I used to have the guy that called in like me, and me and my buddy had a book, like when we were young, like 18, 19 or whatever, and his brother always used to call sunday at like 12 50 and he'd be like what do you guys need the most? And we're like the fucking browns, the bangles and whatever. He's like give me all three of them. And and he actually did all of them. Back then it was like I don't know. It was like the numbers no one really knew numbers. You bet teams. Then it didn't matter. Especially we were still taking calls. It was like, yeah, the Eagles minus 12. 

40:59
Sure okay, they're going to kill them. They're the best. 

41:02 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Low key though for people who bet. If you have a strategy and I'm talking more mental game now, I'm not talking trying to win money if you have a strategy that you're consistent with over the course of the season and you're a better, it's so much easier as a mental game for you because you never have to worry about did I make the wrong call? Did I make the right call? Yeah, and for for 98 of bettors, theyors they're just there to have fun and bet, right. So if you have a strategy like that, which is like I call up this guy who's a bookie and I ask him who does he need? His best five things that he needs this week, and I bet all five of those on my account Now if you lose over like a couple of weeks, you're losing. 

41:40 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
you're like ah, whatever, this is losing you're like, ah, whatever, this is my strategy, like it's gonna win, there's my. He needs those, he wins. You have that mental settled so you never have to worry about did I pick the wrong game? I still do that, like even yesterday or at the beginning of the year, like I liked the hurricanes this year, you know, and I was like I bet him every game, no matter what, no matter what the model says, and then it never works out and I pussy out and I'm like, damn like, and now you know, like you have to drive yourself nuts. I think I'm always like, oh, you know, even like in a failure, like um, you know, I bet like six games, so I was like let me not bet the colts, like I don't know, you know, but that plus three was so juicy, of course I didn't bet it and you know winner. And you know, damn, like, whatever lucky, lucky winner there. 

42:24 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
But yeah, yeah you didn't even bet. I'm just saying like yeah, but how about if you bet that and then it lost? You'd be like ah, I shouldn't have bet that. 

42:31 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
This is what people love. 

42:32 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
The human mind. People love routine. They get. If you have some sort of routine, you deflect all levels of like anxiety away. That's why, like when people you know, it's just like, oh, I'm doing bad, I'm doing bad. And then it's like what's the advice that people give? It's like, oh, get in a routine. You don't make sure you're waking up, make sure you go to the gym, do this, cause it just gets you into a rhythm where you can't miss anymore. And with betting, people love a routine, right? So if you're betting you're gonna feel less shitty than if you're like, ah, what do I like this week? Oh, I might I stretch an extra game, I don't, you know. I mean, keep a routine and you, you will be happier. It's crazy. 

43:17 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
You live and die by it. Like I like it too. Like even when I play roulette and I'm a donkey. I'm like like birthdays. You know, whatever I always play back-to-back numbers. It's like a routine, you know, if not you'll go crazy. You play 30. It doesn't come out, you move to 13. 30 hits. 

43:32 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Yeah, it's worse If you have all your chips on, like whatever red 9, and then you're like no, no, no, red 9, I I'm going to move it to black eight, and then it hits red nine. You're going to feel way worse, like there's going to be. 

43:45 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Dude, you're nice over, you're going to feel so bad. You turn it in at that point. Yeah, you call it a day. 

43:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But listen, there's always scenarios where, like I'm born December, 12th, 12-12. So I only play 12 and the numbers around it at roulette. 

44:01 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I like key in on 12 and. 

44:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I stare at that. But now I go pick my roulette table and I play 12. And guess what? I see the roulette table next to me starts flashing 12. I mean it doesn't matter, like it's good for your sanity, but there's always decisions that will come back to. It's like why did I pick this table? Why didn't I pick? 

44:21 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
that table. 

44:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You can always have it work against you in some way or another, but it is what it is I want to talk to you about really quickly. So Joey Toon's Feed Me Telegram group is now 3,162 subscribers in there. When does that become too much? Because I've noticed already this this year. You're trying to do some releases. It's like okay release, come in in 10 minutes and then 30 seconds later the play is posted, or the opposite way around. 

44:54
So obviously there's you know, of these 3 000. I'm sure a lot of people have given you accounts and there's there's a good reason for doing this, but there's probably a lot of people that are in here now that are not valuable to you anymore in some capacity. So do you ever think about that and like reducing it, maybe starting from scratch? Or are you just comfortable, because you're dealing with a lot of logistical issues with betting some of your plays now? 

45:21 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Yeah, yeah. So that's why you know we don. We don't obviously we don't do every play. We play a lot of games, but it is like I tossed it back and forth, like you know, really last year I'm like, should I do like some sort of paywall? And then I like started the website and I'm, like you know, trying to get the plays on there, like kind of an alert like or whatever. But I mean, telegram is just better for information logging on the website and all that is just like too much at this point, especially for the way the speed is the market moves. But yeah, I know, I don't, I don't know, I I think about it like, especially like when you know I'll get like shit messages, like nice play on the saints, it went right back at you or whatever you know're in my target for free. You can leave at any time. Do your own stuff. I'm not begging for you. 

46:12 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
You got the hitman this week with that Saints play. 

46:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Toons is picking off guys from the Hammer one by one. 

46:20 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
First it was Kanish hitman. I got to get powers. Powers I beat last year, so we gotta square off this year. 

46:28 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
You gotta sign tunes to the hammer. That's actually. 

46:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's actually if there was ever someone that fit the brand of the hammer. It's tunes man. 

46:37 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Look at this guy's wearing 100k chains around his shirt, over the neck, that's what one of the talcans said yesterday you should go with the mob thing, man, you, you'd be perfect. You'd be selling all, like you know, walking up to the windows and doing all Italian things. I want nothing, by the way, to Jen Bedham for you. I saw that one, yeah. 

46:56
Yeah, the timing is an issue, you know what? Because it's like, obviously, how I put out messages and type I'm doing so much, so it's like it's all timing of everything. I'm like, as I'm getting ready to gear up to play, I'm moving the work, you know like I gotta get me down before you know. And then it starts to leak and I'm like shit, I gotta give this out right now. Or I say, you know like I'll say like it moved too much. You know I'm not gonna give it out now, but it's so much timing. 

47:23
And then, like you know, everything that's going on, and the and the chats and everything, it's like, you know, looking at positions, it's almost like I almost forget sometimes. You know, like I I intend well, but you know it's not. If that was like my sole feature, I'd probably clean it up and it'd be like a lot better. But you know, you know how hard it is, because then people just they recklessly take on-screen places and I'm like dude, I didn't even get to, I didn't even get my own game at chris for 10 000. You know, it's like frustrating, so that's what I'm doing in between depends how long these people turn in and everything. So it's not a perfect science, but in the end I'm like that's free. You know they could deal with it I. I think we have a winning record there, so whatever. 

48:07 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
What would be the name of your tout service? 

48:11 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I didn't think that much. I don't know man? 

48:17 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Obviously Joey Toons. Keeping that brand name would be valuable, but it'd be better to go with something more Italian. 

48:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Toons Touts's a alliteration, it's at least. But yeah, you could go with something we we talked about opening uh kumbara joe's picks at one point or another. 

48:33 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
It's gotta be like jewelry or italian something like that. You know, I gotta think of it cugino bats me, I'll come back to that cugino bets. 

48:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Man, I'll come back to that Cugino bets. Yeah, paisano bets. Spin and picks. Yeah, spit with like a pepperoni pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Needed it. Okay, these leaks that you have now right. Do you actively try to seek out where it's leaking, Because I imagine this is a huge challenge with the amount of accounts you're betting into. Do you, are you regularly trying to find where it's leaking from? Do you care Like? 

49:16 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
walk me through that. Yeah, like we do. We did a lot like the past two weeks but, like I said a little earlier, it's so hard because sometimes it's just a hot account that you don't even know, as you know, a mover or anything, mover or anything you know like. So we try. And you know, like last week we did, like you know, we had a game. We sent it to one guy only and we would wait like 10 minutes, you know, and like like that, but one play took like five hours, you know. So it's difficult. 

49:39
And then I know some guys honestly don't know they're doing it, but they may send it to another guy, you know, and another guy may send to another guy, and they all chip in and get down or whatever. And then it's like you know who is it? Just, I may think it's one guy, it might be three guys, it might be a guy spying the account. So it's gotten so much harder and it's, yes, it sucks, honestly, like I hate it. You know we get pissed off, we don't get the right, you know we don't get the amount we want on the game and then it's torched and it's like so annoying because you know we want the higher edge games we want more on. So it's tough to give like I mean, even the feed me, like I'm just being honest, like they're never like our top plays, like they're good plays or whatever. You know they're like, you know, above mid or whatever for us. But you know we have to be discreet, or at least try to be discreet with our, you know, biggest plays and stuff like that. 

50:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you want to protect your biggest edge? Yeah, for sure. 

50:36 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I got a question for you because you've been in this game for a while. You have money now you have a bankroll. You also have a lot of connections. You know you have money now, you have a bankroll. You also have a lot of connections, your name brand, you have a lot of partners, stuff like that. If you had to give up one of those, start fresh. You can either keep all the money you have right now but you're like an unknown name, zero, zero reputation, starting from scratch, random kid and you got to start up or you lose all your money. You start from $0, but you have the name brand Joey Toons, you have all the connections you have now. Whatever, which is going to be easier for you. 

51:10 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I could play both sides of this. 

51:13 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
You have all your accounts and stuff. You just have $0. 

51:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, you've got to give them a bankroll. 

51:18 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
No $0. 

51:19 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
$0, you've got to start from $0. I feel like I don't know if this is outside the question. It's a good question, but I know like many of people would loan me money Like does that count? 

51:30 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
You know what, honestly, yeah, it does. Actually, because you have the network, I mean I could get millions. 

51:34 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I mean, you know what I mean. My name is, you know gold Like, as far as you know, paying and collecting. 

51:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I think that would honestly be the route. I wouldn't want to be broke on my own, but I mean, I think like to build myself back up. You lose the chains too, by the way. 

51:48 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
You don't start with the chains, no no, no, not the chains, it's not, I'd melt. 

51:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Take anything, not the chains. 

51:58 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Please not the chains. But on the other hand, I don't know. I mean, it's like you have the money. I think you could like, like if I started like another Twitter name, like whatever Paisano Bets or whatever Pizza Rob Pizza came out for a couple of years RIP and like I think you could, I think I could build myself back up with just winning and trust and everything like that. So it's kind of hard. You know, I wouldn't want to give up my money obviously. 

52:29 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
So you either give up all your money, you start from zero, but you have the same network. Your life doesn't change, you're just flat broke. Or you keep your entire money, but you take your whole network out of it. So you keep your net worth now, but you take your whole network out of it. So you keep your net worth Now, you take your whole network out of it. You have zero accounts, nothing. You're starting from scratch, so be it to pick one. You know what? 

52:49 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Just for the fact that my sanity I mean, if I had $0 tomorrow, that would just be such a hit, like you know, it would be like the anxiety would be through the roof. I don't even know how I'd sleep. But I think I'd rather keep the money and build myself back up, because now the, now the power of like networking, you know, like I think you could like. I mean, there's guys that you know come to us and and we start slow with them, but man, these guys are like great, you know, and it's like we, we literally have a movers list. You know, like the the more you get down you get plays first and so on and so on the quicker you pay. We literally ranked people. 

53:30
So I think if I had the money and I could show people like me and Rob and whatever we pay, even you or whatever Monday, I want to show strength. I don't wait for anybody, I don't care who owes me what I want to pay, if you keep doing those right things, I think you'll build yourself back up. Winning would help, obviously. So I think I would keep the money and not have to borrow. 

53:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What would you do? I would do the same thing. The reason why is I? The industry is always at risk. Like we live in a good time now we can still bet. We can bet legal books, we can bet offshore, we can bet PPH. There's exchanges, there's no shortage. I can't say it's going to look like that in five years with a high degree of certainty. I do think that there's a non-zero chance that we move towards a universal line set for a lot of rec books where they don't differ from one another a lot. I do think there's a non-zero chance that a lot. I don't know why you're you're? You're like laughing. 

54:32 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
This is why I'm laughing. I was hoping that tunes would say. I was secretly hoping that tunes would be like nah, I don't care about the money, I'd start from scratch because I can get millions in loans people, my name is gold and I can get the loans people and I'd build myself back up, no matter what. I would always be there, cause then I was gonna say lesson for everybody. I was gonna say lesson for everybody here on the thing. 

54:53 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
So now it's just greed. 

54:55 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I was gonna say lesson for everyone is your name and reputation is worth more than your money, and that's why you never stiff. You always be a good guy and you make sure your name is gold, because if you had to Give up one, you'd give up your money in a heartbeat and you'd actually keep your reputation and everything, and then you'd be there. 

55:11 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
And I was gonna say that now. 

55:13 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Then I like you guys get both said money. So basically now the lesson is treat, burn every board you have to make a quick, but I did all those things. 

55:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like my reputation was always important because it helped build up my restart. 

55:27 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
The question how about this? You keep all your money but your reputation is in the gutter, meaning like you've stiffed a bunch of guys and like nobody wants to work with you, then would it change anything? 

55:37 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I mean you're done pretty much. You know like. I mean there's guys you have to re you? 

55:42 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
it's not even about would I rebrand. You have to rebrand because that's how you have to go on. There's somebody else yeah. 

55:48 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Only rebrand, yeah, but I think both, you know I kind of answered both. But you know, like, I think like in order to get back to where I am, or whatever you need to, you would need to do the right things again, like even with your rebrand or starting over, I don't know. The fear of having no money is like that's a big fear, you know. But I mean I ate plenty of laydowns. Just the past two years I had monster laydowns that I had a small like volume deal on that. I just, you know, I think everybody's like me and you know it didn't help us at all. I was just making a little bit of volume and I had to eat monster lay downs and big money, you know, and it's like I did what's right. You know I could have walked away and you know nothing's happening. I mean, you know what, you know, so, but I still, you know, do that right thing, because that's just how I am, honestly. 

56:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But um, very personal question. I guess up to you if you want to answer or not. Are you at your peak of sports betting now, like is this the best you've ever been, your operation has done, or or are those days behind you? 

56:59 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
no, because right now is the best. I mean, we have the most accounts right now. I think we're you know we probably deal with. We definitely deal with the most accounts right now. I think we're you know we probably deal with, we definitely deal with the most amount of people, but not always like like there were guys maybe 15 years ago that could get bigger amounts. But I understand like the market is different now. But as far as like, I got a great group of guys that you know, I never, you know, 15 years years ago, I didn't trust anybody. It was like me, me, I have to do everything, I have to do it my way. Now I feel like you know I could miss game or or do whatever you know and still have everything running right, you know. So definitely right now, I think, is the peak, even though it's harder to win now probably than ever. But you know, if you do the right things and stay on top of everything, like it still could be beatable, you know okay, I got a. 

57:54 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I got a couple questions for you. More rapid fire. Okay, this is for, uh, you know, newer bettors. Just starting to the game let's go new, better starting into the game. What's the? What's the best way to get started? 

58:07 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
hoard your money not what. 

58:09 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
What would you do? What? What do you do? Do you start learning? Let's say you know nothing about gambling. I come to you I say I'm look, I'm looking to get into sports betting. I know people make money. What should I do? 

58:18 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
yeah, I actually compliment a guy. I think like networking would be like number one and you know, obviously like old school reading books, like trying to see try and like dissect, like what you know true guys on Twitter and everything are doing Like you know, like there's a couple of guys on Twitter that I even like I kind of get pats on the back because they kind of started from none. They just, you know, you know, like connected with people and did all the right things and they give accounts and they pay and then they sit back and kind of watch how everything's done. I mean you can learn so much from Twitter. You could like even Rob and us, you know, 10, 20 years ago. You have opinions on why you do it and everybody learned from somebody. 

59:01
Like I mean, when I was booking back then I had a guy just destroy me on a college Saturday, you college Saturday. I was just like what is this guy doing? He tipped me off a little bit about the line moves and all. I think I'm always going to say build connections and do the right thing, but obviously you just got to emerge yourself in it and really understand why things are moving the way they are and what's real and what's fake, which comes with later and experience, but I think that Okay. 

59:34 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
second question you can only play at one book for the rest of your life, but you can never get cut off. Which book is it? 

59:43 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Should I give you Pinnacle plug? 

59:46 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
No, no be honest question Well, pinnacle will never cut you off. 

59:48 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
well, pinnacle will never cut you off, so that pinnacle will never cut you off already, so you're good there, right um, it's, it's, it's still like a battle, because I mean a cold draft kings would be my favorite, but that's just not, you know, a hard to come by. But I mean pinnacle, hasacle's the best, like as far as game day. And you know, like I guess earlier in the week it's more so like Chris, like just because they have more liquidity Sometimes Circa too for like football and stuff. But Pinnacle's been like low on, like you know, like early in the week stuff, like I think like friday they were taking 4k on college football. I realize they don't have any us players and all that like. So it's not, they're really market soccer, they're monsters. So for me that's like the battle. But game day they bump it up, you know. 

01:00:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But any book and what like. Where could you? 

01:00:43 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
absolutely no. But you get the limit for that book like it's not like. Oh I, I get a PPH with 100,000 limit. Like you get it. You get like any PPH skin, let's say 5K limit across the board. Or you get like you can get. Let's say you know FanDuel. You get 510K limit, whatever Standard limit on FanDuel. You get one book. You can only play at that one brand. What are you playing for life? 

01:01:04 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
But you'll never get cut off. You'll get the stated liberty Right, all right. So I get a million-dollar credit or whatever or anything, and they never cut me off. It would have to be like I mean, I think the legals are the easiest to beat probably like DraftKings, honestly, like you know if that's who you're referring to right, fair enough. 

01:01:22 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Yeah, that a quick question. Okay, so you go, jack. I mean, they're just they're worst folks. 

01:01:26 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I mean they don't have like the talent like Pinnacle does or Chris, like any of that. So for sure I would go. 

01:01:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'd go Bovada or Bodog, like, bodog being the Canadian version. But, Bovada was you could print. 

01:01:39 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
All right, next question there, this is a good one, okay, good one, okay, so you have to. One of these is happening. You have to either get stiffed a million dollars or you have to stiff a guy. 

01:01:54 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
A million dollars, um, oh my god man, I don't know. 

01:01:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is a great question, by the way. 

01:02:01 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Thank you very, very good question. It's character versus money. You know, yeah, I would say I mean, like I was referring to earlier, like I paid, not a million, but it was a good amount that I had to come out of pocket, so I kind of already did it. So I'm going to go with that. You know that I would pay it rather than not pay it, you know. 

01:02:29 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Okay, and second variation, that's's a good answer. I appreciate that second variation. It's a bit different. Just thought of this one right now, off the rip, actually. Okay, no one can ever find out about this. So it's like it's it's done you nothing, there's no issues with it. Okay, you either get robbed and get roughed up by a guy, or you rob a guy and rough him up. 

01:02:49 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I would never rob. 

01:02:51 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I think I would you get? Beat up and die. 

01:02:55 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I would like a good throwdown. Anyway, I would take the attempted robbery All right. I can't rob anybody man, no way. 

01:03:04 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
There we go. Toons, an honorable guy, man of honor. Wow Listen, that was just a random segment. I just wanted to ask Toons a couple rapid fires there. Maybe we do a couple. I'll think of some more rapid fire questions that are more personal, specific on future episodes. 

01:03:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Man of honor 2000 terrible movie. 

01:03:20 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
You like that stiff question, de Niro, and? 

01:03:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Cuba Gooding Jr. Yeah, you remember. Hey, you like that stiff question, though this is great. Honestly, I got the gears flowing in my head for some content ideas, just based off of the questions you asked. 

01:03:34 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Well, what would you do for that? You either stiff a guy a million dollars or you get stiffed a million dollars. 

01:03:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So there's a point where it turns. So for me, I would rather stiff a million dollars. 

01:03:48 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Yeah, but also, if you don't have a million, then it's. It might be a different answer. 

01:03:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For sure. Listen, I don't want to talk about like my, my net worth and my money situation, but I would be lying if I said a million dollars still isn't a. It's a decent amount of money Like it's. It's. It's very meaningful If, if, if we're talking like 200,000, it's a different answer to the question maybe even higher than that. I don't know what the cutoff point is, but I would not want to get stiffed. A million dollars, under any circumstances. I'd never let it get to that, I should say Right. 

01:04:19 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
But that's the question. One of those hypothetical. 

01:04:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would rather I'll. I'll lose my integrity. That's that's it. I'd rather that. Okay, I go, I go. 

01:04:30 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
It's like it's like, what would that scenario really come in? You know what I mean. Like I know I'm never stiffing anybody a million dollars. So like, if, if I like, the only thing I could see would be like I helped johnny out with rob and johnny300,000 and then lost a million and just skedaddled, you know, and that's the end of Johnny Like and now Rob's like dude. I dealt with this guy two weeks. I paid him out and now he lost and he's gone, you know, and that's your friend, whatever. Like that's really the only scenario. I think that this kind of thing can happen, you know, because I'm not stepping a million and I would never let anybody. You know, because I'm not stepping a million and I would never let anybody. You know of probably five people you know have a credit line of a million dollars. You know so. But I mean, it's a good question, good question fair enough. 

01:05:16 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
All right, I got one last one. All right, this one should be a good one, okay? So let's say you're dealing with someone, so both you guys will do separate answers. Let's say you're dealing with somebody and you know for a fact this guy's like purposely messing up the figures, just so. Like you know, you're like this guy always messes it up, always in his favor. He's just trying to catch, he's taking every possible advantage to nickel and dime me here. Okay, and you know that if you ever sent him the figures and you were, let's say, 5 000 off his way, you know for a fact that he's going to just take that and he's not going to correct it. Okay. 

01:05:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I deal with people like this. 

01:05:50 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
So then? So then let's say he sends you the figures first this week and it's a $5,000 error that he fucked up in your favor this time. Okay, and you know for a fact, bro, that if this was reversed, he's taken that money from you and he's not correcting. Do you them and say, hey, you're 5k off, or do you just? Or do you just collect the money, the figure he said, which 5k, air in your favor we'll, we'll tell we'll. 

01:06:13 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
We've had that scenario a thousand times. But we tell our people, but we like kind of highlight it to them, like look, you know, like we helped you out here, you know, and. But we have, like my guy mac does like all my accounting, like he's my number two. He'll send out like once or twice a week just like a bogus figure and see if they actually like come clean, you know what I mean. Just add maybe like a thousand dollars here we always send our figures first, you know cause I've always wanted it that way. 

01:06:41
It's like I want to, like I said I want to show like we're not afraid, afraid, you know we'll open ourselves up first, you know we'll pay first, whatever it may be. So but we definitely test people and you know I don't, because then if, if this guy catches you like down the road, it's just like not worth, like that, you know it's not worth a thousand dollars, 5k, whatever it may be to lose that trust. I mean you could always say no, it was an honest mistake, it it was a formula, but you know it's always there for you All right. 

01:07:10 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
What do you think, rob? 

01:07:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So if this person, if I suspect that he would, no, no, it's not. 

01:07:15 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
You suspect. You know for a fact that if you, if you sent him the wrong, he'd take it. 

01:07:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But it hasn't actually happened. 

01:07:22 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Let's say you tested him out and you sent 500 bucks more just for. You sent $473 more just to test him out and he took it. 

01:07:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oof, tough scenario. I will say this has happened before a few times and I've never taken the money where, but it's not the same hypothetical you're asking me because it, like, that person has done me no wrong before. They might have screwed up the figure and then we'll go back and be like, no, no, you're actually overstated this by like a few dimes. This is the real number. 

01:07:55 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I'm gonna say no, I wouldn't but so in the scenario where you just tested him out a couple weeks before and he failed the test, now you're gonna be like all right, I'm still coming clean oh man, this is tough. 

01:08:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a tough one. 

01:08:07 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Johnny's is putting us on the line. 

01:08:08 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
He really no bro, these are good. These are hard-hitting questions. Man for the show can we take an intermission. 

01:08:13 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I was off. 

01:08:14 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I was off last week I was what do you think I was doing last week? I was fucking prepping these questions man, it depends. 

01:08:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I, I don't like when other people, when other people are scumbags, I become very vindictive and I will. This is my human nature. So I want to say to you now that I wouldn't do it. But if faced in that situation, I probably would. That's the honest answer, because I don't like. I don't fuck people over, I don't like when people try to pull a fast one on me. So, yes, I probably would fair enough, good answer. 

01:08:47 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I always want to give like the benefit of a doubt, of the doubt, you know, like I mean maybe 473, maybe he doesn't even check his figures, he just goes with ours. Like people are that lazy, like you know, they just yeah, that's fair. 

01:08:59 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
It depends if it's a team or not. Like you know what you're saying. You're sending all the figures first. Like you might be working with one guy he's like working a day job, like he doesn't have time to send the figures out first right in the morning. You know what I mean. 

01:09:09 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
You guys are a professional team yeah, yeah, the other canadian group, uh, you know, like both, now they had the whole things flip and 2 000 more. You know we came right out and we're like you're way way off. You know, like simple mistake, like however they entered, it I guess you know was just totally off and backwards. 

01:09:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I mean those. They're doing so much volume over the course of right. There could be like one entry error or something like that, but I'd rather keep good, like you know like I said, there's like a ranking of tiers. 

01:09:40 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
You know like behind the scenes, so like you never want to do anything, but you know honest, good guys, that you can make way more than $473 or whatever during the course of a lifetime. 

01:09:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I want our audience to answer these questions in the comments below. I'm very curious, as what? These were very tough, where I could have gone 50-50 on a lot of them. If you're out there and you bet on sports seriously and you could put yourself in these situations, drop in the comments below how you would treat Johnny's hypotheticals. 

01:10:10 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Because those are some good thinkers, okay. But I asked Toons, the Stiffa guy, a million dollars and that's just because, well, quite frankly, I know he has a million and, by the way, just how I know he has a million is because earlier in the episode he just said he was wearing 100, hundred thousand in jeans on his neck. But but I asked tunes that question because I know a million is a number that's reasonable for him. But I think for most people, like if you're in the comments, like a million it's if you don't even have that, if you're just starting out, you're younger, like you're not expected to have like a couple of million dollars in roles. 

01:10:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So that question is different. 

01:10:50 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
Find an that where it's like this would kind of hurt me, because I know this is a lot of money but at the end of the day it's not going to put you into bankruptcy where you don't have to eat that next day. Because if it's also tough, if you're like just coming up and like you have this shitty situation where you do get stiff but you're trying to do the right thing, but that just breaks you, at that point, like I mean, I think the best thing would be, you know, like, if the guy didn't ghost or whatever, like just kind of you know, like go to the guy, like I mean, look, you guys feel the same way. I'd rather get paid rather than get stiff, even if it's over the course of like dude, give me, you know, 500 a week or whatever it is. Show me that good faith, show me that you're not a piece of shit, that you're actually trying, and whatever the hard scenario is, you know Yep. 

01:11:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Completely agree with that. All right, if you enjoyed this episode, make sure you smash the like button down below. 

01:11:33 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Make sure you're doing plus EV, minus EV. Of course we're doing plus EV minus. 

01:11:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
EV. Who wants to start? 

01:11:38 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
this. I just got to pull up. I got to pull up, yeah, okay. 

01:11:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Something that's plus EV or minus EV in life. It doesn't have to be sports betting related. It can be if you want, but totally up to you. You can give both, you can give one. The floor is yours. 

01:11:59 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I think health is plus EV. I think, like, focus on your health, man, not even just lifting, you know. Just. You know, eat right. Like I think routine is super important, super important for everybody. You know what's the good of having anything if you're not going to live as long as you can, you know. So I always put health like I start each day with that, and you know it's like a code for me. So negative EV. I think it's social a code for me. So negative ev. Thank you. 

01:12:29
Social media, I don't know man, like for me, you know it's, it's like a crutch to you know. You know, I don't know, meet people and connections and everything. But god man, these people that just like sit on their phone and and just post five, six, seven different apps. To me there's just so much negative ev. Like go read a book, go get smarter, go learn about sports betting, go, you know, meditate. I don't even know. Like just seven, seven hours a day is crazy to me. Just like posting pictures of your food, your kids crawling and you know the sky, and drinking champagne on a yacht when you owe me money, all that shit. 

01:13:14 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Hey, social media is terrible. Honestly, I think there's so much power that it gave to in order to, you know, connect people and we'll be forever grateful of that. But at the end of the day, man, like so much negativity so much, so much you know mental strength, it takes to even just be on there and post um and like, yeah, it's, it's not, it's definitely not for everybody, because when you're posting on social media every day, you're getting a lot of hate. If you're, you know, at any level like we have the podcast, whatever if you're even doing that, just posting anything other than just a couple hundred friends, you're getting some hate. You're getting some this, you're getting some criticism. 

01:13:47
Takes a lot to put yourself out there and then, at the end of the day, so time consuming, just consume everyone else's content. It's like a massive, massive waste of time. Plus, everyone's only posting the best of the best on there. Yeah, so you're constantly just like comparing yourselves against other stuff of the best of the best of people. It's like bringing your mood down, like I used to check when I used to have like an Instagram, for example, years ago. I used to check Instagram. Everything was like people going out being the best, like on vacations whatever their best life. 

01:14:15
And I'm like what am I doing here? And it would I mean if you're not careful, it has a negative impact on you. Agree completely to consume and post, but at the same time, like think about how good it is for business if you have anything you're trying to promote. Like you can't, we can't do a media company without posting on social media, like getting it out there yeah, I mean it. 

01:14:36 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I mean this is like what the kids want to do now there's no more tv stars. It's like youtubers and instagrammers and tiktokers, which is fine, like I respect all that. But um mean, some of the stuff is just like I don't even know how it takes off, like the hot two, like I don't know, is that it's funny? I mean, is it worth 50 billion views? I mean, not to me, I don't know. 

01:14:58 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Yeah, this stuff, something's got to be studied with a lot of this shit. 

01:15:07 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I don't get this man. When you look back and like you actually check the time you spent on like I mean, look, I use twitter, I have guys that operate twitter too, but you know it's like you could do 99 things right and then one thing wrong and you're just like shit on, like the negativity is just like. It's cringeworthy. You know like and everybody's. It's you versus everybody, so everybody's gonna have you know, whether it's pronunciation, capital letters, the wrong, the wrong data, whatever it may be, you just you're. You're an open mark. You're like in the middle of a field, like getting sniped. 

01:15:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I have a minus EV for this week. Go for it. I don't think I use this one. 

01:15:39 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I'm pulling my list. 

01:15:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't actually know we're getting. We've done so many of these now. I hope it's not a repeat. I've certainly talked about this before, but not on circles off. I'm going to speak to all of you out there who play fantasy football. Okay, you might have made a great waiver wire pick up last week. You might have started a guy that was on your bench that wasn't projected to have as many points as the starter and it was a great move. Here's a word of advice nobody gives a fuck. Stop talking to other people about your fantasy football leagues like they care. People who play fantasy football care about one thing their own team. No one wants to hear about what great moves you made in the week. It's brutal. Stop, don't do. It's an epidemic. It ruins like an hour of my week Every week. People talking in group chats about their amazing moves. I don't want to hear it. 

01:16:34 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
You got to fire up your own, your own lead group and only talk in there. 

01:16:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you want to talk smack to some guys in your league, sure, I get that. But you know, if I'm going to go and meet my cousins at a barbecue, I don't want to hear every single one of them their rosters, and they're showing me on the phone who they picked out Like no one can. No, I don't care, nobody cares, don't do it. I know you're very proud. Fantasy football owners get very proud of the movie. I get it. It's an ego. It's an ego thing. But keep it to yourself to come up to me and say, hey, rob, guess what? I won my pool, I made a couple grand. I'll be like congratulations, here were my players. I don't care, stop right there. That's it, you know. Pat yourself on the back once. No more minus ev. Move I. This is one of the. I feel very strongly about this. I hate this so much. I cannot. 

01:17:21 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I cannot overstate, overstate, understate cannot understate understate how much I hate this huge minus, or or when, when people are like cheer, you have like god knows how much in a game and they're rooting in their kicker or whatever no, no, that that honestly I can't. 

01:17:38 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I can't do this man. That that's the worst one man, when people are doing that is. 

01:17:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, that kid, that kick just cost me three fantasy points I don't like. 

01:17:45 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
It just cost me 25 000 bucks, buddy. I don't like that, it just cost me 25,000 bucks buddy. I don't like watching games with people who are not betting on the game on the same side as me. I used to not care and now I care. I don't want to watch it. I'm with you, like imagine you had the Lions last night and I'm watching a game with you and I have the Rams and every time, like you, can't even it every time like you can't even. 

01:18:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Just ridiculous, you can't even watch it. 

01:18:12 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
I, I, when I watch with friends, I I actually don't really even make it clear who I'm cheering for. 

01:18:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I just internalize everything but it's probably pretty easy to tell. But but it it does rattle me hard when listen, it's all relative right. So it's not fair for me to say, oh, my bet is this much bigger than that guy's bet because that that guy's bet means something to him. But I just don't enjoy that. Like I don't, I don't. Some people are like oh, I love being in the sports book when it's 50 50 action on the game. You got some guys cheering for this, you got some guys cheering for that. You know it gets heated people are. I don't like that at all. I like being in a room where there's a hundred percent of people cheering for the same thing as me. That's me personally, personally. So I'm with you on that one. Don't like that at all. 

01:18:48 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
All right, I'm going to give mine out here. So this one is it's more for, honestly, like I cause I don't even. I don't even do this anymore, so I'm just giving out. It's like an early hack. Okay, when you're coming in university, just you know, let's say you're around that age 1920, 18, 1920, 21 an incredible hack is credit card rewards points and learning all the hacks on that, because there's so many different credit cards you could like recycle, just get a new one, get a new one, max out the cash back. 

01:19:18
If you're making purchases, things like that, you can earn like a couple grand. 

01:19:21
However, the couple grand you earn is nothing compared to the lessons you're going to learn by actually studying, reading all the terms and conditions, reading all these things, signing up and go through it and I used to do it when I was younger and yeah, sure, I might have made a couple grand like, oh, I made rewards points, I got these credit points, I get this, get the gift card, book my flight, but and I don't do it anymore now I just book and I don't even care. 

01:19:43
But the lessons I learned from that are like directly related now to sports betting or like other things in life Like, wow, I learned how to do this, now I can do that in sports betting. Sure might have more two grand to me. Now it might be worth 200 grand on something else in your business. So if you're young, if you're like in and around that age, go sign up for all these credit cards, hack it around, see if you can make a couple grand. But, more importantly, learn the lessons of that Plus EV move of the week in that age group. If you're 50 years old and you're doing all this to like make a couple grand negative EV move of the week. 

01:20:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's pretty good, zach. Do you have any? Do you have anything for this week? 

01:20:23 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
No, I do not my lawyer my lawyer, he got anything. 

01:20:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, people don't know this, but Toons' lawyer has the same full name as our producer, which I hung up. 

01:20:33 - Johnny from Betstamp (Co-host)
Yeah, Toons joined the meeting, instantly left, like what happened? He came back. He's like oh, I thought I joined the wrong call because my lawyer's name is Zach Phillips. 

01:20:41 - Joey Tunes (Guest)
I thought it was like leftover or something. I'm like how the hell? 

01:20:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, something. I'm like how the hell? Oh, that's so good, that's so good. Uh, appreciate everyone who tuned in here. Uh, this week you can follow tunes on twitter at joey tunes too. If you did enjoy the episode, smash that like button down below. If you're listening in audio form, please rate and review five stars. All of this really helps and goes a long way. By the way, we reach 10k subs. Thank you for all those who are out there, but we're pushing for more than 10k subs. Look at some of these other shit channels that are on YouTube for sports betting, where you watch them. You're gonna learn nothing. Hundred K subs, 250 K subs it's a joke. So make sure you're subbed here on circles off. Thank you for tuning in. We'll catch everyone next week. Thanks for watching.