00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off, we're joined by Kevin Davis. He is the host of 90 Degrees right here on the Circles Off YouTube channel. We're going to talk to him about a variety of stuff, including how he got into the podcasting space and his love for the CFL All that and more. This week's Circles Off starts now. Come on, let's go. Welcome to Circles Off episode number 104, right here on the hammer betting network, rob isola, joined by johnny from betstamp, how's it going? 

00:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
so, for all you who are listening, I just tried to do the intro without rob, like I was the one who's like hey, everybody, welcome back to circles off, and he nixed it before I could even say episode 104. 

00:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's like whoa it got rejected very, very quickly. Um, I've just noticed like this farmer's tan I got going on is way too much. Episode number 104, the farmer's tan edition. I really got to roll up the sleeves when I when I play golf or do the gardening so the most famous number four. 

00:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We got obviously number four, bobby, or of course. 

01:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm glad you said that first. My father watches every week big, big fan of Bobby Orr Trivia question. You might not know, you might know, I don't know. Bobby Orr's career was ended early with a big hit by someone. Do you know who ended his career with that hit? Zach does. Zach can't speak, by the way, he's got Laron Dredd. 

01:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What year was this? 

01:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is before I was born. Basically, um, I'll, I'll say it was pat quinn, patty quinn. Pat quinn laid out bobby orr and ended his career. Fuck, eh, pat quinn. But four is a very popular number. I brett favre was, uh, was, number four. Dak prescott, prescott, boy number four. Right now I know you're a huge fan of kickers in sports as well Adam Vinatieri. 

01:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Vinatieri yeah, not the biggest fan of him, but no, he's a fine guy. I'm just like was never a massive fan of Vinatieri, just don't like the teams he was on, I know. 

02:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I hated New England. I just hate New England. I like he was yeah, I hate, I just hate New England. I wish he missed some of those kicks for the Patriots. Fair enough, glad to see Boston sports go down this week, by the way. 

02:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It was very, yeah, thrilling. Come back from 3-0, all for naught, all for nothing. 

02:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's like a little bit of a rivalry obviously between Toronto and Boston when the Leafs were, you know, winning 4-1. They lost to the Bruins. Leafs fans have had to hear that for years. But Boston just like blowing leads in sports playoffs this year Sorry for, by the way, all the Boston fans out there, but I hate Boston sports. So see the Bruins blow that lead and the Celtics just like come back all for naught Red Sox. 

02:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
not that good this year, year it's just a great time to be tough. 

02:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a great time to be alive. And it's a great time to be alive in ontario, where you can bet at pinnacle sportsbook. They are the world's sharpest sports book available to all you bettors in ontario. Find out what pro bettors have known for decades pinnacle is where the best bettors play. Again, you must be 19 plus Not available to those in the US and please play responsibly. Cannot stress that enough. Never risk what you're not willing to lose. 

03:17
Before we get into our guests this week, I do want to point out one more thing that producer Zach sent me earlier. We often ask people to subscribe to the show. If you're not subscribed, subscribe. But also one thing that drives me nuts on a weekly basis. I do appreciate people who, by the way, reach out to me via DMs, but the DMs of when is the Circles Off episode dropping? When is 90 Degrees coming out? Whatever it is? It's very easy. People Make sure you turn on all notifications. Just hit the bell below all notifications on. You get a notification whenever we go live. It's that easy. You don't have to ask me anymore. By the way, we do try to release episodes of Circles Off Thursday at 4 pm, eastern time, but click those all notifications. Only 5.2% of people who are watching right now have all notifications turned on.2 percent of people who are watching right now have all notifications turned on. Too low, very easy. I run my life based off notifications, do you not? 

04:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
somewhat, somewhat, somewhat. All right, guys, what we're gonna need to do is absolutely just smash that notification bell. We're gonna need you to obliterate that notification bell, right now. 

04:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Hit it so hard that you actually have to buy a new mouse. That's that would be the goal. Click it so hard that you actually have to buy a new mouse. That would be the goal. Click it so hard that that left side of the mouse actually gets stuck in and you need to order a new one off Amazon. That is the request. Second request, by the way we want to grow the show so we can do more shows. Continue doing this for a long time. 

04:41
Reach out to one person that you think has not heard of Circles Off episode at any point. Tell them to listen to one. It could be your favorite episode from the past. One of the guests we had Ed from Right Angle Sports, barry Hoare, steve Fezzik. Whatever we've done, or you can just send them the YouTube channel. Tell them to subscribe, but help us grow. It does mean a lot if you can do that. So please thank you for all the support over the last couple of years, but let's blow this thing up even further. I'm not a narcissist, I'm not arrogant or anything like that. Some people would think I am. I'm actually not, but people do say all the time this is the best sports betting podcast out there. I read the comments for the last episode we did last week with Brock Landers. I got the exact same thing. Great, best sports betting podcast out there. Let's make it blow up like it is the best sports betting podcast out there. So appreciate everyone who could do that and, of course, subscribe. 

05:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We need a good starter episode Because a lot of people ask me like oh, I know where do I start? What's the first step? Which episode should I start? What should I go back? 

05:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
to. So let's do that next week, episode number 105. 

05:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Do a starter episode like how to get started in sports betting and then like where to go through. 

05:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, or like we could do like a what not to do, what to you know what? Watch a video on YouTube this week. I wish I could give it credit. I'll remember what it is and we'll describe it. But I watch tons of golf videos on YouTube, by the way, because I suck at golf and like I think that by watching these videos it's going to make me better. It actually makes me worse, because then I go to the course and I think about 48 different things in my head while I'm swinging. But there was one video done by like a scratch golfer has his own channel. That was if I had to start sports betting sorry, golf from scratch this is what I would do, and it was like a 30 minute video. 

06:27
That could be an interesting podcast If it's starting from scratch. Starting from scratch Could be interesting, could be trash. 

06:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think it'll be interesting. By the way, my new golf clubs came in. Now I just need a couple new hats, couple new golf shirts and a new glove, and then I'll finally start playing better. 

06:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Your golf clubs came in, my favorite thing that I got this week. I'll reach back for it right here. Look at this bad boy. Is that a welding and chipper hammer? It's not a welding chipper hammer. I don't know what type of hammer this actually is. Sorry for those who are listening as I'm holding one up for the viewers, but this thing is straight out of the 1920s. I would think it's actually like fall, I feel. If I turn it upside down like it's broken at the top, you can like see it's not in there, that'll be attached properly anymore. 

07:16
But this, I think, is the hammer that we will switch to permanently for our logo. Forget the claw hammer, this is the one. This is the one. This is the one people Thank you. Anyways, let's get into it. We do have a guest this week. Some of you might have noticed, a couple months ago we added another podcast to the Circles Off podcast stream on Spotify, apple Podcasts Also. You would have noticed on YouTube a new face to the Circles Off channel. That new face is Kevin Davis. You can follow him on Twitter at Boogie Down Picks. He is the host of the 90 Degrees podcast right here on Circles Off, kevin, how's it going? 

07:57 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
It's going pretty good. I'm a longtime listener of Circles Off. I think I've only missed like five or six episodes of all you missed five or six, that's because you didn't have notifications set. 

08:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Kevin set notifications, like the rest of the people who haven't set notifications, so you can get every single episode. Which one? 

08:14 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I do. I did have notifications that I think it was just like I didn't get around to listening. 

08:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, even though it was notified we're gonna have to discuss your future here on the Circles Off channel, knowing that you haven't listened to every episode. No, we're just joking around Kevin. 

08:31
Kevin, for those that don't know you, I met you at the first Bet Bash in New Jersey. Then we chatted again at the second Bet Bash at the Bookie Better Breakfast that we had. So we've met a few times in person. We obviously talk offline as well, but for those that don't know you, give us some of your personal background and how you got involved in the sports betting space well, like many people, I didn't have like a math or analytics background, uh, before getting into sports betting. 

09:01 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Uh, partially, because it wasn't a career outside of Vegas for a long time, at least in a regulated way. So I originally started off with a career in politics. I was an elected official when I was 23. So I was the youngest elected official in my county's history. So I did that for two years, then went back to school to finish my degree and got a job with the city of New York as a 311 call taker, because you have 911, which is for emergencies, and 311, we're the fun guys 24-7, 365 for non-emergency calls. 

09:38
So if you had a rat in your apartment, you would call me. If you had a noisy neighbor, call me. If you had a noisy neighbor, call me. If you had a blocked driveway, call me. If your car was towed, call me. 

09:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What's the craziest story you got For? 

09:51 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
an emergency we bring 911 on. Like somebody called because they took a cab and the driver demanded a tip. He didn't tip the driver, so the driver drive off with the luggage, so I had to bring 911 on the line. 

10:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That so the driver would drive off with the luggage, so I had to bring 911 on the line. That was Patrick Kane, I believe right, no, patrick Kane beat up the cab driver in Buffalo. 

10:09 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Well it wasn't in Buffalo because it was New York City 311, and it was out of our jurisdiction, we would have to forward him to the right place. 

10:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh man, I actually didn't know this. I learned something new about you every single time. 

10:23 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
You got any other good ones. That's where the sports betting comes. Oh, I got a ton of them. 

10:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Give us one more. Yeah, go ahead, give us a couple more. 

10:28 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
She's like yeah, I'm calling because these three kids showed up at my door claiming they're my son, but they don't look like me. How can I get a DNA test done to find out if we're related? So I had to bring on the supervisor because I didn't know what to ask. So I asked I said were you there when they were born? She said yes, and I said okay, what happened to make them take your kids away from you? And what happened was 15 years ago she had a bad drug trip and child services came and took her kids away. So you know, I hooked. I hooked her up instead of cause we only had paternity testing, we didn't have maternity testing. 

11:11
Cause I would have gotten a failed score if I gave her the wrong service, even though it would have helped her. So I just hooked her up with child services so she can find out what happened with her case. 

11:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh fair enough. 

11:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You ever get it Like do you know the follow, like you know what happens after those, or you just like you pass it off and it's done, like what were they actually? 

11:28 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Most of the time you pass it off and it's done. But some of the time, if it's like a something we're taking, like we're doing a noise complaint and sending it to the police, they have like a number of the track it. So you go on that number to track it and I'll say police showed up and observed no noise. Because noise complaints are fucked because they take up to eight hours to respond the police. So if you have a neighbor having a loud party at 2 am and they show up at 6 am and observe no noise, they're not gonna bust them good to know this is. 

11:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This is pertinent information when you let us know what Toronto 311 is like. So was there anything ever gambling related on the phones? Bookie stiffed another guy. You ever get that. 

12:12 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
This is like because I was getting into sports betting while I was working this job. Because it was located in the financial district, which is right by the path train to New Jersey. So it was after work, when I make the trips to New Jersey to make my bets and then go back home. So I'd be on the phone and a guy would have the game on in the background and I couldn't be like, oh, I have money on it. I'd be like, oh, what's the score? And because they listen to the calls and grade them, I say okay, so they're covering. And he'd be like yeah, and covering. And you'd be like, yeah, and the analysts won't know what covering is. So that's how to find out what's going on, or they'd be like oh, you're from Nebraska. 

12:52
What do you think of the Huskers this year? Because you would have to while looking things up. You would have to manage the time, because if you're not talking while you're looking things up, the other person's going to freak out about their situation. I was like yeah, what do you think about Scott Frost? 

13:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right, and then I'll be looking it up, I will say so. I've known you now for a few years and we've had several interactions. You are the king of the small talk, I would say. And now it all makes sense as to why Because you just have like someone else on the other end of the phone. You don't want them just like there for four minutes, just nothing. I mean, I guess you could just put them on hold with the elevator music, but you just prefer to chat your way through those. 

13:34 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Yeah, I mean, if you put them on hold, that makes them more aggravated. And there's also like if they're on hold for too long, they dock your score, because the way they analyze you as an analyst is they grade your calls. So they only grade it if it's randomly selected or somebody makes a complaint against you, got it? 

13:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now, how did the first year? 

13:53 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
is the roughest because once you're there for one year it's nearly impossible to fire you because you're permanent. So they fired most of the people like 11 months in, so they wouldn't be permanent employees Cutthroat. 

14:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Very cutthroat, so did you make it past. 

14:08 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Yeah, so I did that job for about three years before I shifted over into the sports betting industry. 

14:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And describe the shift for yourself. Like what does that mean? Shifting over into the sports betting industry? 

14:21 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Yeah. So I was just like in that job, kicking ass, being miserable because there wasn't really much room to move up. I was just taking my civil service test, trying to get a better job in New York City government. But they took one and a half years to score one of my tests and it wasn't until a couple of months ago that I finally got a call for an interview. Wow, so that's how slow they are. 

14:42
So I was there being miserable, but I'd be at work. I'd be like, okay, I'm going to wait till 3pm when my shift is over, going to take the train to Hoboken, and I'm just going to lay my bets. So I did that like four or five times a week. Then go back home to the Bronx, which is why I got my Twitter handle at Boogie Down Picks Boogie Down Bronx, boogie Down P down pics, just like the rap group boogie down production same initials. Big fan of hip-hop, by the way. 

15:08
So I was doing that and I went on like a facebook forum and like here's what I like in the nba blah, blah, blah. And the guy's like hey, I run the forum and I also run an affiliate site. Do you want to write for us? And I'm like, yeah, so I did some articles and I'm like, why am I getting screamed at all day on the phone when I could work in sports betting? Uh, this came up a few episodes ago on 90 degrees. Uh, my uncle uh, works in the sports gambling space as well. Uh, we kept that under wraps. He has a different last name, andy serling of the new york racing association. So I kept telling him about the betting stuff I'm doing and he's a tough critic and he's like, wow, you're doing well, why are you still working at 311? So I took that encouragement. 

15:51
It was right before COVID. So I was like, you know what? I'm going to take a leave from my job, start writing sports betting content, getting paid. Then COVID happened. So that's when I started getting really active on Twitter and I got into Asian baseball. So I was building my own Asian baseball models and then I got hooked up with Vegas Insider, started writing for them a little bit, then later ended up with Action Network and then after that I landed my first full time gig for an affiliate site. So I did that for a year and a half and now affiliate sites are cutting back. So still in the betting space, producing content for you guys, and in the meantime I'm leading bus tours in New York City. 

16:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Interesting. 

16:38 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I got my sightseeing guide license Okay. So it's just me and 50 Europeans on a bus, me cracking jokes. Are you, are you a? 

16:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
classic new yorker though are you. Are you a true new yorker? 

16:51 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
so that's debatable. I grew up in the suburbs, so that's why I don't have an accent. Um, like I mean, look, I was an elected official in my town of 8 000 people, so I'm a legend. Uh, lived in the, the Bronx, for five years and the Bronx is where I got started in sports betting, because there weren't many blank, blank kiddos like me in my neighborhood, because the Bronx is about 8% white In my neighborhood. The other white people are mainly Albanian immigrants. 

17:17
So you know, I was getting my haircut one day in my Dominican barbershop and that's when I found out that people were betting on sports in the back. I'm like, let me check that out. So I got my Google Translate out, gave them some bets in Spanish. They gave me the slip in Spanish. I went back the next day to win. So they're talking among themselves. I'm like, how come this guy is winning? What's going on? And they called me Bernie at the time because Bernie Sanders was running for president. And and they called me Bernie at the time because Bernie Sanders was running for president and they didn't know many other Jews in this part of the Bronx. And they're like, oh, how come Bernie's winning? So a lot of them would like start chatting with me. Like what are you doing? But it wasn't like super advanced, like now is only one sports book. I guess my first winning angle with them was that they had pitcher strikeout props whereas minus 115 on both sides. 

18:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So, they would only do minus 15? They wouldn't shift it up. 

18:15 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
They would only do minus 115 on both sides. 

18:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And I'm like okay, yeah, nice, yeah, definitely Huge edge, huge edge, if something else is priced minus 160 in market. 

18:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
As often as the case in in strikeout props, you would be betting it at minus 115. 

18:32 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
the only, the only downside was that I had to put him in like four pick parlays if I did a picture at strikeout yeah, I mean still plus ev bets right so I had some, I hit some of them and then they had, like the clerks who don't know much english, pretend they didn't hear what I was trying to bet, and meanwhile they're on the phone with I'm not going to mention the bookie's name, even though every Bronx neighborhood has a Dominican with this nickname and the guy's like, oh sorry, don't give him any pitcher strikeout bets. 

19:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Got cut off, man. 

19:03 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Hey, your first inning Got cut off from that but, uh, you know, so I was doing first five innings. They didn't have cfl back then, sadly, or else I would have been there doing cfl, but it'd be there on the saturdays hitting the maximum there you go. 

19:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So what do you? What are you doing right now for betting? Obviously, kevin, you, you're living in, in around new jersey, new york a lot of regulated sports book brands there. How's everything going now? 

19:28 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Yes, that's what happened. So you know, once I left 311, I didn't have to live in New York City anymore, because you're required to live in the five boroughs and after two years you could ask to live outside of New York City but your agency would have to accept it and they wouldn't let you live in New Jersey. So once I didn't have to live in New York anymore, I moved across the river to New Jersey, because I was tired of commuting to New Jersey just to make bets. I mean it's fun hitchhiking over the George Washington Bridge. I mean they had buses, but people Did you actually hitchhike? 

20:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, so I mean they had buses Like on the side of the road with the thumb up. 

20:05 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Not, yeah. So I mean they had buses Like on the side of the road with the thumb up. Not even with the thumb up, the cars would just pull over and ask if I want to join, because for the George Washington Bridge you pay less in tolls if you have three or more people. So they get the people waiting for the bus from the George Washington Bridge and ask if they want to jump in. 

20:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Really, how much is it less Like per person or just overall? You pay less. 

20:25 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Overall, they pay less. I don't know exactly what they were paying they're trying to like they're trying to encourage carpool, encourage carpool. 

20:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're doing some sharp move like it's an ev that's an ev move. 

20:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So I mean it's an ev that's. 

20:37 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
And then the other side of the george washington bridge is fort lee, where, uh, there's a big korea town. So I'd have all these old Koreans picking me up To my girlfriend and be like, oh, are they going to kidnap you? And I'm like, they're five foot tall and 120 pounds and 80 years old. I think we're good. 

20:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There you go. 

20:55 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Unless they have a stun gun. But that was part of the game. Well, you never know. 

20:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
nowadays it's anyone could take down anyone. 

21:05 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
But yeah, I was tired of doing that and my girlfriend wanted to live with me and she didn't want to live in the Bronx. I'm like how about Hoboken? So we've been here for two and a half years now. 

21:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There you go, Now what do you? So you're in Hoboken, let's, let's describe yourself as a better to the audience, right, Like I sort of know you, but like for those out there that consume 90 degrees versus circles off, which we're you know we're doing, now they're different. There's a lot of interview style stuff that we do on our program, but it's very different than what you do, and a lot of people are like how do these fit together? So for for yourself, Kevin, do you consider yourself a square better, a sharp better, a semi-sharp, something else altogether, like, talk to in your own mind what type of better are you? 

21:49 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I would say I'm a wreck sharp better. So I'm definitely sharp because all these sports books keep limiting me, and I mean sure, some of these sports books are limiting people they could be winning money from. So so I do win consistently at a lot of these smaller, lower limit markets that Spanky isn't hitting on and others. But if I were to try and be a professional better and have to hit NFL sides or NBA sides, I would probably break even or lose 1%. 

22:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Got it. You found yourself like a niche that works for you, where you can get some profitability. But if you were to scale that you would have trouble doing that. Essentially. 

22:34 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Yeah, I think I would have trouble doing that and I mean, I guess one of the biggest lessons I learned from my podcast is, you know, being a professional better is a pain in the ass and it's just easier being a better. That makes money but it's not your job fair enough? 

22:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
hey, definitely. Uh, a smart move there. I think a lot of times with people who are betting and they, I guess, deem themselves professional or not if you put all your eggs in one basket, then now you're like required to actually give it all you got. When you don't, you don't really work as hard like if you, if you have like a side job or something else to fall back to. So I've gone both ways on that and in terms of, oh, is it better to have a nest egg or is it better to just go all out? And I think depends on the person. So for someone you know, like you, who's like, I prefer to also just do a lot of content stuff, do a lot of media stuff and still try to make money on the bets, but not have to depend on that. I think that's a solid move. 

23:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, kevin, I want to get into 90 degrees and podcasting in general. So when we first launched the Hammer Betting Network, which is coming up on a year now, is it? 

23:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't remember the exact date we should probably know it, no end of summer like before football season. 

23:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Not when we actually brought it to the public, when we talked about it. 

23:43
Yeah, that's probably coming up on a year it's probably coming up on a year, and the way that we kind of did it was the original founding members myself, johnny Julian, a few others that we had on board in the early going, basically put together independently, put together lists of people that we thought would be a very good fit for our vision and what we wanted to build, and you were one of very few people that was unanimously on every list. So that's how it started in terms of us reaching out to you and that was us not even knowing whether or not you could do content, but just like, this person is interesting and we should give them a shot, type of thing. We first started chatting with you about the idea of doing a podcast. You were on board, and then it was you that came to me with the premise for 90 Degrees. So can you tell me a little bit more about the inspiration for that? You know why you chose this interview style format and you know where the name guess 90 Degrees comes from as well. 

24:46 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Yes, it's a great story. So first of all, I was a longtime Circles Off listener and going into politician mode, I think If I'm going to a conference where I'm networking with people, I got a list in my head of every single person I need to. You know, meet, talk to. So you are on my. You Johnny BedStamp people, you know everybody else, people that work for Spanky were all on my list for Bed Bash 1. 

25:13
And it was all one evening, it's calculated this guy's calculated, I am calculated so I connect with you guys, share contact information. Um, you know, just do me, uh, not afraid of rejection, because rejection is the same thing as doing nothing. So we kept in touch. Then bet bash 2 happened, because I knew rob was doing big things. So bet bash 2 is more time, so I had more time to kind of scope out the audience. So, like the days of Bet Bash go by, still hadn't collared Rob and I knew my moment was going to be the bookie better breakfast, where you're all supposed to sit at a table and wait for people to come. Well, they didn't announce any penalties if you wait to sit later. So I finally caught up with Rob Lurkin and I figured out what table he was going to and I sat with him and it was a very entertaining brunch, met some other great people like Peter Jennings and others, and then, you know, we kept in touch and then suddenly, unsurprisingly, rob announces that he's doing the hammer. But before he announced he hit me up and I was game right away. The only issue was I was writing for a site full-time at the time and they do podcasts, but it's not necessarily at the hammer's level. So I had to talk to them, get permission, and they're like, yeah, sure, as long as it doesn't interfere with your work. They asked some more and finally got approval to do it. Then I started doing the podcast and it was doing well. The company pushed back. They're like, oh, we didn't know you were doing this, our ex. Luckily I don't work there anymore, so it's all good. So that's the story of how the podcast started. 

26:57
Now the story of how I got the name. You know, rob approached me about doing written content. I wasn't game for that because I already do it and I know the future of sports betting content is in podcasting. So I'm like I want to do a podcast in like an interview format, because when I was in college I used to have a radio show, the Meshuggah Factor, where I played classic hip hop and interviewed politicians. So I'm like, why don't we do something like that, but for sports betting? And so originally I thought, okay, we're going to call this show Angles, because you know people are figuring out the right way to win long-term at sports betting with the right angles. But then I'm like it's not really catchy and I'm all about puns. Why don't we call it 90 degrees Right angle Because people are going to say why is the show called 90 degrees? And I say because we're giving the right betting angles. 

27:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I love it. I love it, I mean, it's really well thought through, by the way. 

27:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yes, we'll touch on one thing. What an EV move to pick his seat last and slide in there right next to Rob Pizzola. Kudos to you. That's an EV networking move we had a. 

28:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That was actually a great breakfast and it was probably like a two to three hour conversation. You're right, peter Jennings is at our table. We were talking about underdog a bunch as well, but I remember I don't remember the story well enough, kevin, but I remember laughing really hard at you telling some story about I think it was fighting a battle of where, like, a field was going to go up in your neighborhood or something like that, and you went to the most petty levels to make sure that either that field did go up or didn't go up. Don't recall. 

28:36 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Didn't go up. 

28:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It didn't go up and I was just. 

28:39 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I was like this guy I fought a high school that had a rooftop football field, right with an ice hockey rink and an olympic sized swimming pool and why did you not want this to go up again? 

28:50
I don't remember the entirety of this story all right, this is a good story and it describes why I'm hated among many people in their 40s in hoboken, uh, but I don't give a shit because it's not like they bet on CFL. So, as a recovering politician, I'm still jumping to political battles. And there's a proposed referendum on building a high school. But this is not just like any high school. It would have been like a state of the art high school, which is fine, but the base of the high school, the classrooms would be supporting a football field on the roof, because they're going to build a school on the football field. So they're like well, where else are we going to put the football field on the roof? And like the school district covered this up for three years because they didn't want opposition to build, because the price tag ended up being $241 million with $90 million in interest. So it would have a capacity of 1,100, but it would be the cost of a high school that fits 3,000 people. 

29:51
So I was like, why not do something else? So I was part of the Vote no campaign because I know I'm a math guy, and they're like OK, kevin, what are we going to do? So I went to some of my old contacts and they said if you send text messages now, it only costs nine cents a text to send and you can buy people's cell phone numbers for one and a half cents each. So I went to the Board of Elections, got the list of people that voted in the last election, the last election before that, because I didn't want to waste money on people that never vote. So I got the list, sent it to a company, said here, give me the phone numbers. They came back with the phone numbers. We loaded it in and usually a political text message has about a 3% response rate, but this we got an 11% response rate because I really went to the jugular. So we sent texts. Did you know there's an election in three weeks that may increase your rent or property taxes? 

30:53
So people are like, oh my God. So of course we got the text back. Fuck you, how do you hate kids so much? Then he got the other text back, said, oh, I had no idea. Or oh, tell me more. And then I texted back, say they're going to have a hockey rink, and I had an emoji of someone playing hockey. They're going to have a rooftop football field, and we had a football emoji. So I mean that ended up. That referendum failed 65%. So I mean that ended up that referendum failed 65%. People are still bitter, so I'm still on many enemies lists. So that was the story I told, because it turned out there are two people at the table from Hoboken, which, mind you, is a city of only 60,000 people, but there's a lot of bettors there because it's right next to New York and Jersey City, which is next door as well. As Hoboken is headquarters to many legal sports betting companies and you have many pro and semi-pro bettors, like Clyde Bixby, that live in town. 

31:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Right, but why did you not want the field to go up? 

31:49 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
It's just, it's a matter of people, because I thought it was a wasteful spending to spend the amount of money for a 3,000 person high school to have a 1,000 person, high school to have a 1 000 person this is a man of principle, you have only 

32:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
400 students at the current high school. I listen all power to you, but did you spend any of your own personal money to get that done? I did wasn't that more of a waste of spending? 

32:11 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
it definitely was more of a wasteful spending, but the principle that they hid this from people for years because they didn't want people to be opposed to it. And they held the election in january when it'd be the only thing on ballot, because they hope that only moms would vote fair listen. 

32:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Fighting the system. 

32:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Listen, I appreciate I'm still fighting the system devalue and see in your effort, however undoubtedly that money is going to be just wasted on something else I mean politics basically is a waste of time. Uh, you do it because you care, you've got to get the good guys all the time I've been doing this. 

32:44 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I could be grinding out lines in the time when this happened. I got limited at some sports books and didn't realize it, so maybe I would have two weeks more before I get limited because I was killing euro league basketball that year. 

32:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Listen, especially the fact that you got it done, though we appreciate that. 

33:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I appreciate someone who's willing to put you know their principles, fight for what they believe in ultimately. 

33:10 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
And it's funny. People are like, oh, are you worried about them saying don't listen to this guy, he works in gambling? And I'd be like no, because there's one person running for office who works in litigation finance, where her job is financing litigation, so if they win the lawsuit her company gets part of the settlement. She's a gambler. There's one of the people on the school board who works in pharmaceutical sales and you're telling me she can be a drug dealer, but I can't work in gambling. 

33:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I own who I am. I like the spin you put on that. But yes, you know what, kevin, the politics side of things, like the elected official, it's all making sense to me now. 

33:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So I'm gonna do a quick plug here for the 90 degrees podcast. It's unsolicited, but if you so far right now, if you like circles off and you haven't listened 90 degrees, check it out. Basically, what the show is is kevin. He's a great host. He asks people basically about their betting. It's a lot of people who are in the analytics community, pro bettors, betting community and really it's an extension of this podcast. I would say, uh, format's pretty cool and kevin does a great job and the the shows are very entertaining and you'll learn a lot as well from those. Uh, from those shows. They don't have currently as much views as Circles Off. We're going to grow it up. We're going to grow this channel. We've had a head start as well. To the moon, kevin. So we appreciate you being a part of the network and obviously, best of luck with the show. 

34:30
Episode came out today in reality, which is two days ago. This is the time of this airing of this episode with our friend, former Circles Off guest as well, probetter Spanky, the host of Bet Bash, if you guys want to go check that one out just dropped what would have been a few days ago right here on the Circles Off channel. So if you're listening on podcast format, you'll see it in the feed. If it's on Spotify, itunes, whatever it might be, and if you're listening on YouTube, hit on over, scroll down, you'll see the 90 Degrees section right here in the feed and, as always, hit that subscribe button. 

35:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Kevin, you've obviously had a very wide assortment of people on 90 Degrees, From Andy Serling your uncle, as you mentioned to all over the place. Really, how do you go about selecting the guests you're going to have on the podcast? Like, what criteria do you look for there? Because you found a lot of people that, frankly, I didn't even know existed. At some points, it's like the first time I've heard of them. Or I mean, obviously you've you've had some big people in the space as well, but I'm I'm curious as to, like, what is your criteria for selecting a guest? 

35:41 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
You know I look over their social media if they have it. Say you know, do I have a chance to learn something new if they come on, or are they just going to be recycling the same old garbage? Because, like, the problem is, most professional bettors or winning sports bettors that we know tend to be steam chasers, which is interesting, but it gets boring after a while. You need you know some background on bottom up handicapping, particular angles of steam chasing, sort of biography. So, and then a lot of what happens is I'll have guests on and people start messaging me because they love the show and I'll think, oh, maybe you'd be a good guest. Or they would say, I know this person, they'd be a good guest. Or they would say, I know this person, they'd be a great guest. 

36:22
So, for example, my friend Scott, who works for Spanky. He runs Spank Ozz. He's not like a big public facing personality, but I met him at Bet Bash 1. And we talk all the time since then. Um, and he's a professional sports better and he's in Vegas, so he knows all these people. So the guy is the former Mandalay Bay casino host. Yep, that's how I got him. Yeah, so I got to learn the secrets about how vip hosts keep coming people in because, even though it's not sports betting, as like a sports better, it's good to know how these industries work. 

36:55
that was a great episode it was I just like the time when I he um, I was like how do you help people get laid in vegas? He's like it's easy. You just go to a bar and say I'm abe froman sausage king of chicago, and I'm like they believe that. He's like, yeah, they're not old enough to know that movie. So I mean, you know it's a normal thing where we're looking for the substance, you know, in the sports betting, because it can't be all laughs. But you know, what keeps people tuning in is it's an entertaining listen. So people like that. 

37:29
I've started running out of more guests, even though I'm only up to 29 episodes. So I started hitting linkedin, uh, partially because, you know, let's, let's like face the reality here. Looking at the three of us, we're white dudes. If you look at most of these betting conferences, it's white dudes, but if you look at most betters, it's pretty diverse. Like in my old neighborhood of the bronx that was the only blank keto, uh, in there and I was betting on sports and everybody else was, um, you know. So it'd be nice to get some women on there, some people that are not white, uh, so I'm working on that, but they got to be legit. They can't just be on there as a personality, like there has to be some substance there. So like, for example, we had Sarah from Profit Exchange Because I saw the article that Gina Fiore wrote and the profit people. 

38:15
Guess what? Not only do they live in Hoboken, but they live two doors down from me. It's a one mile square city. So I was like let's bring her on, let's get the right angles. And a lot of it is. You know, usually before a show I only have five or six questions written. Most of what I do is I listen to the conversation and think, okay, what other angles are in there? What sort of follow-ups can I do? I try and look at it as if I didn't know anything. What would I be asking? Because if you're asking questions like you know everything, but people who are listening aren't at the same level as you and they're not going to be able to follow. 

38:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I everything, but people who are listening aren't at the same level as you and they're not going to be able to follow. Yeah, I think that's pretty cool. I mean, everybody has their own interview style format. I'll just speak very openly about how we do circles off. But typically we circulate like an agenda to all of our guests of, like these are what points we're going to hit on with some actual questions. We don't always just go down that list of questions because I think that like that's counterintuitive to how an interview should work. 

39:11
Somebody says something interesting. You should follow up on that. Or in some cases I'll you know the Steve Fezzik episode challenged them on that or something along those lines. Right, and I can tell by your interview style that you kind of listen and interpret what people are saying. Kind of listen and interpret what people are saying. In fact, I got it the most out of the interview that you did with Johnny, where I could clearly tell that you were processing in real time his answers and then kind of coming up with questions on the spot, and I think that that's more interesting this is just a personal opinion of mine than someone who's just going to script an entire interview. Go bang, bang, bang, bang bang because it just doesn't have like that natural conversational style to it altogether. So I do appreciate that. I'm curious for you what are some of the most memorable conversations or guests that you've had on 90 Degrees, Something that if you really had to recommend for somebody that they go and check out, what would it be? 

40:08 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I mean the plus EV analytics interview is perfect because we're both trying to outdo each other with the nerd jokes. But I think for him, like one issue he probably has when being on interviews is making sure people understand what he's talking about, because this guy's a smart dude and I think that's one of the interviews with him where he could really understand his process much better. We go from a more naive angle. Fats was obviously great because Fats is a wealth of information. We could have had him on for three hours, like Spanky did. 

40:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One of the first episodes? Yeah, he was great. 

40:43 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Scott was great. If we bring Scott back, we're going to have to put a horse mask over him because he doesn't want to show his face anywhere. Back. We're gonna have to put a horse mask over him, uh, because he doesn't want to show his face anywhere. Uh, he's very secretive, uh, but at least we get him chinese mike. I've been trying to get for ages, but he'll never do any podcasts. Um, never say thank you. That we just did was amazing. Frank b another amazing guy. 

41:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You can't. You can't just go through the entire catalog, kevin, and say everything's amazing though that's Kevin. 

41:10 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
That's not the way it works. What's the go-to? I did drop the hammer. 

41:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Somebody tomorrow is going to check out an episode of 90 Degrees and you can give them one. What's it going to be? Frank B, Frank Bang. We'll link that in the description below, Obviously you can find it Kev you're a big fan of the CFL. 

41:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You're not from Canada like we are. You're a massive CFL fan. Why is that, and what do you bet on for CFL? 

41:35 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
So I've actually always been a huge fan of Canada you guys are our neighbors. 

41:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I can take the train up to you guys to Montreal. 

41:44 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
You're just a big fan of the country, yeah, so I mean in fifth grade the teacher had us all research like a province in Canada. I forgot which one I got. It might have been Saskatchewan, I'm not sure. 

41:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's why you're a Riders fan. 

41:57 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I'm a Riders fan because I'm a fan of the league and I wanted to own a team that I'm a fan of and they're publicly owned. 

42:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Interesting Okay. Yeah, I see you always wear the Riders hat, or occasionally. 

42:11 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Hell, yeah, yeah, yeah, I see you always wear the rider's hat or occasionally, oh yeah, uh. So that's why I'm a rider's fan. So cfl um, I was like, okay, I want to get into this, but I never have. And then sports betting uh, you know, my first year of betting was sports betting in new jersey. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna check out cfl betting, uh, because my dad's co-worker is really into cfl football. 

42:28
Uh, which is random at an environmental law firm, that you have another lawyer who's in the CFL. So I got hooked. I'm like this is not just like something else to bet on, but the fans are really into it. The rules are so different. Not everything is decided by three and seven points and you know, I just got hooked at that point and that was 2019. I was ready for 2020, but then the season was canceled because of COVID. So I had two years to really look forward to 2021. And that's when my CFL betting at the time went to the next level, because I was looking at the values of all sorts of points, all the books that offer alternate lines, that price the alternate lines like NFL alternate lines rather than treating it like cfl, where you got the rouge and you got more two-point conversions because they have a 20-yard end zone, um, you know, looking from that, and of course the rouge happens a lot because the field goal post is at the front of the end zone. 

43:25
Yeah, where you can basically die, just like. 

43:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've seen the most violent collisions, with people running crossing routes in the end zone that just get destroyed by hitting the field. The pole's not at the front, though it's not directly at the front. It's like two or three yards in yeah, pat yeah, and it hangs over the goal line, correct, well, I wasn't even thinking of that angle. 

43:45 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I was thinking of it's closer. More teams are going to go for long field goals. Uh, just because they don't have the 10 yards back, like the nfl, right, so they're going to go for it, they're going to miss it, and then you have it like okay, is it long enough, but wide, will you get the one pointer? Is the other team going to return it, like I've seen return for 110 yard touchdown? 

44:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yep could be 119 yards. Actually was 55, 55. Yeah, it's 100, 110, you're right, but you could take it back technically from 129 yards, which is I mean so I'm like looking at all those like angles and strategy. 

44:23 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Then you get a point where you have line shopping and the consensus price is four and a half you like the dog and one site has five and a half. Yep and five the old key number in the cfl yes, I mean four and a half, and five and a half is a much bigger deal in cfl than, uh, the american version for sure. 

44:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And then? 

44:46 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
also looking at teasers. Uh, you know whether they price them properly. Like you get a 6.2 team or minus 120. Or a certain site. I don't know if they're going to make the same mistake again, so I'm not going to out the name. That has 28 cent spreads on CFL, but you can buy each half a point for 8 cents. 

45:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There you go, see you know the right angles. It's all coming together now. 

45:13 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
And the injury reports. Yes, understanding, each team has to have a certain amount of Canadian players playing on the field. 

45:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Bingo, so people are going to say, okay, who are the best? 

45:23 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
players. They're usually American. Well, what about the best Canadian players? When they get injured, what are their replacements like? 

45:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That is actually very, very, very fair. So they do need to put a certain amount of Canadian players and then once you have that player injured, you have to replace them. But typically so the way it works for those who don't know, like in the CFL, typically you're not going to waste like, okay, let's say you have a really good like linebacker, you need that position. So that's probably gonna be like one of your american positions. You're not going to put one of your canadian spots there. Canadians will be the positions that aren't as valuable. But if there is a canadian in a valuable position, he drops off and they have to re-up him with another. Yep could be an edge to be had. 

46:07 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
100 what they do is they line up the offensive line with Canadian U sports engineering graduates who are big. But the issue with that is because the pay is not as good in the CFL as being an engineer. They have some really good Canadian offensive linemen retire before last year and I don't think people properly accounted for his absence. I mean he retired because he can make more as an electrical engineer, yeah, so why do that when you're getting making 60 000 canadian and having willie jefferson, who's six foot seven really fast and 265 pounds running after you? 

46:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
some other cfl differences for those who don't know. You get a running start off the jump instead of having a standstill at the snap, and there is only three downs. Three downs and there's an extra player. 

46:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Ball is bigger. I don't know if you ever tried to throw the cfl ball, but I wouldn't want to like people. People always shit on the cfl like and like some of the quarterback play. I mean, we have seen quarterbacks that have excelled in the CFL, that went to the NFL and got rostered, chris Strebler being one of the more recent ones. But the field is very wide relative to an NFL field. You have to have solid arm strength as a CFL quarterback to make that out throw, because if you don't, you're cooked. So I think people are very dismissive of the talent in the CFL quarterback to make that out throw, because if you don't, you're like you're cooked. So I think people are very dismissive of the talent in the CFL a lot of times because it is, you know it's a very different game. People watch it. They, you know. They think oh, it's Canadians, what do they know about football? But the play is a lot better than I think people actually give it credit. 

47:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'll tell you this given that there's only three downs, I just don't see how you run the ball. It just it makes no logical sense to run the ball when there's three downs. You literally run it first down well, there's certain teams that disagree. But let's say, you run it for three yards on first down. Yes, now you're the equivalent of an nfl. Third and seven agreed, and that's after a first down run. That in the nfl is not even graded as a, as a negative play. 

48:09 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
The only count but a good cfl running back and offensive line because that's most important will average between five and six yards to carry but that would still not even be enough. 

48:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It would still not be the same as as probably the expectancy if you passed on first down. I mean, there are situations where team is just running all over another team and you could see that every time they hand the ball off they're going to get eight yards. 

48:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You also don't kill the clock as much because of the first down rules in the two minute like under three. So which-. 

48:36 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
And a three minute warning instead of a two minute warning. 

48:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Exactly, and then you don't. You basically don't run out the clock as much. In CFL it's even worse in college. 

48:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The big thing for me is that in terms of running I would never run on early downs but I think late downs it's way more successful because in the NFL you can line up right to the ball right In the CFL you got to give a one yard, full yard, so like on the goal line you're like you're giving literally a full yard of separation. It's just way easier for you to get like the quarterback sneak in the CFL is like I'm sorry, but if you get stuffed you immensely fucked up On a one-yard sneak. 

49:13 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
You need to be cut or you're playing Winnipeg. 

49:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Or right, or there's just a very, very good defensive team that's figured it out. But, kevin, for you, I hear a lot of people that don't like to bet the CFL because of the limited amount of games, and I think that's fair. There's just not a lot of teams. You get four games a week, sometimes by weeks, three games a week. But I think that people are also like think it's an incredibly soft market and there's like this like argument I see in like the betting community of I love when the CFL comes around because it's so soft, and other people like why do you waste your time on this? There's only four games a week? And then there's the people that are good NFL and college football bettors that think that they could just seamlessly transfer over and have success in betting the CFL. I'm curious if you think that that's the case. If someone's a great football handicapper, nfl, college football do you think that they could automatically translate to success in betting the CFL? 

50:17 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Not necessarily because they still take pretty high limits on cfl um, because, like you know, I'm not hitting the limits on a lot of these markets but like, for example, I'll say to scott say, okay, I bet this, here's what I bet, and an opener will be out and scott will get down a thousand dollars, which isn't like as much as some other, but it's still pretty ballsy to take $1,000. In fact, actually FanDuel is taking $2,000 limit bets on preseason. But for me, I like looking at FanDuel for this. It will tell you what the limit is rather than you having to find out. So if I'm logged off the app, I see what the typical limit is and if I log into my account, I see what my limit is and FanDuel has me at one-third of the usual limits. 

50:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Ah, cfl Sharp, what a Sharp. 

51:04 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
But they have you at double the limits on every other sport Not necessarily NBA because I was on the watch-along last night for the finals Yep, and I had a great idea for a live bet, but of course I'm a little scared to like bet any NFL NBA playoffs because of how efficient the market is. So I had my theory and I put it in and I was like Jesus FanDuel would take $5,000 from me on this and it has the same price as all the others. I'm like I'm just going to not do it because they're this confident. 

51:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Was it Miami Heat? Alt spread minus 19.5?. 

51:42 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
No, I wanted to do Miami Heat, moneyline and the under because I thought my angle was what a winner. It was a winner, but my angle is that Miami, when they tend to win, it tends to go under. So I'm like, okay, I trust my gut. But then I saw what the market thought of it and the market agreed on the number and they gave me a high limit when they know I'm a winner. No way. 

52:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Were they allowing the regular parlay or did you have to go into the SGP for that SGP? What was the correlation there? 

52:11 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I think they priced it as that there is not a correlation. So there you go. It was at halftime. 

52:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh, at the half. 

52:15 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
It was at halftime. Yeah, because I don't like messing with live betting while the games are going on, because of how far ahead they are. 

52:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yep. 

52:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, very, very smart. 

52:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Everyone who lives bets. See, this is another thing. When people live bet, they think that they're watching the game. You're watching at least 7 to 10 seconds delayed If you're on cable, if you're on any streaming service, it's far more. 

52:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Thanks for coming out. You're full play or 2B? Yeah, there's really no value in that. Speaking of live betting. 

52:41 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
unfortunately the sportsbook took it down. But during CFL preseason one sportsbook had live lines. Preseason one sports book had up live lines and of course they're treating it like a regular season game where teams are three and a half point favorite. They're up by seven. Here's what the line is, but preseason they're using different sort of rotations for each quarter. 

52:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So there you go. It could have found the one. The starters got pulled. 

53:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will give a quick plug here for our sponsor, pinnacle, because I do bet the CFL pretty regularly and Pinnacle does have some pretty good limits on CFL relative to every other sports book. So there are going to be people out there. And now, granted, this is Ontario only, but if you are betting in Ontario you go to bet at some book. They're giving you 50 bucks on a CFL game or 100 bucks on a CFL game. You want to get down more. I would say 100%, sign up for Pinnacle. You can do that through our links betstampapp slash circles off. We'll link it in the description below betstampapp slash circles off. But I cannot recommend pinnacle enough as a book in general but for the CFL as well, especially if you want to get like a bet. You know, listen, for some people doesn't apply, but for others that want to bet the sport and actually like make something off of it, that would be my go-to sports book as well. Just on a side note, kevin, unrelated to betting, do you think the CFL could ever find mass appeal? 

54:03 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
If they had a different commissioner and leadership? I think yes, that's asking a lot. 

54:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Where are you? Are you going to apply? 

54:13 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I think I have applied to work for the cfl before. I believe there's visa issues because I'm not canadian and I would have a hard time becoming a citizen. Because I looked into it, because I'm in the canada and usually on the point system they give you more points if I, if you know french and I don't know french well, we could teach you that. 

54:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We could teach you French. We might be able to get you a passport for a certain. You don't even speak French. Devin Kavis. 

54:37 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Jim Appel at Boogie Down Picks. That's not going to pass it. 

54:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're what the French would call les incompétents, Kevin. 

54:48 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
That's straight from Home, alone alone, by the way, for anyone who didn't get the reference straight from home alone. Yeah, I mean you listen, I hey, home alone had a character named kevin, so it works, the main character is named named kevin. 

54:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Macaulay culkin was named, uh, kevin uh, appreciate before all the drugs yeah, well listen, I mean his brother, kieran culkin, put in a hell of a performance at uh on succession, which was absolute banger finale. Yeah, yeah. 

55:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Honestly, I never heard of that show. Yeah, you don't watch. 

55:15 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Yeah, I mean to make the CFL popular. They just need to market to a younger audience, have it on more TV stations. They started embracing betting, but you got to embrace it a bit more. I, you, mm-hmm, you know, and I think the musical talent shouldn't just be for people in the mountain provinces who would like country. 

55:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sorry the music. 

55:34 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Put some pop music in there yeah, like if they have the great cup halftime show don't don't diss shania twain to the canadian audience here. 

55:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think shania twain has been on the great cup yeah, I think she has a couple times. I remember like a dog sled come pulling her out for the great time half. I like the great cup halftime show um, I'll be honest, I haven't. 

55:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I haven't really seen much cfl, but this previous year's great cup I did watch it. I believe the r goes one on a lovely. The r goes one on a last second missed kick. Yep, from the kicker on, was it the bombers? Yep, legio the leg. And uh, yeah, yeah, oh for sure. And then, yeah, he's from around here. 

56:16
Well, everyone's technically from around here, yeah, but if you, if you, if you're just around ontario, then, like you know, so many guys are in the cfl. Yeah, wow, a guy, a guy from the c who currently plays in the CFL, is on my Touch Football League team Sunday nights. He's on the Ticats Long snapper. I'll let you guys look it up. Yeah, absolute beauty, he rips it up in our Touch Football League. He doesn't play long snapper for us, he plays all positions. But yeah, I don't even know what I was gonna say. 

56:50
But yeah, that that last great cup game, the argos, was actually a legitimate great game where, like, this guy got an absolute boneheaded penalty on the on the argos on like a third down which would have ended the game. But he got like a, basically a roughing the passer penalty extended the game and then he was the guy that blocked the winning kick. This was with two minutes left. He cost his team the game and they're like, wow, they just blew the Grey Cup. He stepped back up and blocked the game-winning kick and won it for his team. 

57:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's actually a movie script Legitimately can't make that up. It's literally how you would write a movie. 

57:35 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Don't forget the previous year's gray cup too. 

57:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, maybe I do get back into cfl. 

57:37 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
It's, it's, it's not bad. Yeah, I mean, the halftime show was lame sauce. Who was it? Uh, is that guy from florida georgia line? Taylor hubbard, I think is his name? Is some guy with the last name davis, and that was the only good thing about him? I don't know. I mean because I joke. I say what if we get swollen members? But what if the cfl just ponied a ton of dollars and had drake? 

57:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yeah, I don't. I think that would cost them more than the league is worth itself. 

57:59 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
What if you made drake like gave him like an ownership stake and had him had like a cfl ambassador role, like they do with the raptors I don't know if CFL compares to NBA like that. 

58:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was Tyler Hubbard, jordan Davis and Josh. 

58:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Ross, jordan Davis. Jordan Davis is phenomenal. 

58:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The year before was the Arkells. 

58:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Zach's, not his man. 

58:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Keith Urban in 2019. 

58:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean there does seem to be a big country presence. 

58:26 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
So we did have Shania Twain, the only big bomb bangeranger, I can find the list was when they had nelly, furtado and socrates uh and I found the video and it was a banger 2012 was justin bieber and carly ray jeffson. 

58:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's, that's banging. 2011, nickelback for those. I mean listen, uh, it's not. I was expecting a much worse list than what I'm looking at right now. I think you've undersold the halftime shows. Uh, for the, for the great cup. 

58:53 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I really think you've understood it could just be that I'm a hip hop head and no, I mean shania tweens did it twice. 

59:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
By the way, she also did in 2002 so I see who it is this year. 

59:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean, where is the great cup this year? 

59:09 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
It's in Last year was Saskatchewan, I think it's in Hamilton this year. 

59:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, in Hamilton At Tim Horton's Field. 

59:17 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
So I might actually go. 

59:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If you go, I'll tell you what I've never been. If you go, Kevin, I'll be right there with you. I'll go if you come to Canada. 

59:26 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
I'll even make a confession. I've only been the one cfl game in person before, and it was a pre-season game in montreal. That, uh, johnny menzel played oh wow for the alouettes so I'm hoping to go to uh the riders uh argos game this year in late june, july so here's the thing. 

59:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
right, this is gonna be very soft and this is for a canadian as well, but the great cup is November 19th. Is it a Sunday? Yeah, it'll be a Sunday, so you're going to miss an NFL day. 

59:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Unfortunately, Kevin, I won't. 

59:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What time of day, and you'll also be just standing in the corner. What time of day, though? It's usually 6 o'clock, right Kickoff. 

01:00:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, all right, so I'd have to miss the back end of the four o'clockers as well as the sunday night football game. 

01:00:16 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Yeah, but put like the traffic to get to the, it's gonna be sold. I know the hammer is about an hour away. I thought you canadians are all about, uh, public transit and biking? 

01:00:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
no, we absolutely not. I don't know what you've been informed definitely not the people in this room. 

01:00:24 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Yes, that's for sure but this actually has a good subway uh I wouldn't know, I've ridden it once, I believe the Metro. 

01:00:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's called the Metro. 

01:00:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Hamilton's about. From where we are now could push two hours, depending on the time. 

01:00:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But this could be a great content play because it could be the hammer in the hammer In the hammer. 

01:00:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Hamilton is referred to as the hammer. They do play at Tim Hortons Field, Joey Kanish's favorite coffee shop. 

01:00:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean there's a lot of things that are coming together here. Imagine we could get Kevin out here and Kanish out here for the Grey Cup. 

01:00:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Just do and get field side passes for like 120 bucks. I just don't know, it won't be 120 bucks. 

01:01:04 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
It'd be free because we're media. 

01:01:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, we get press passes. What? 

01:01:07 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
about all the CFL fans in New Jersey. 

01:01:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Argo's season tickets is like $200. They could not pay me For the season. 

01:01:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Not like per ticket. I don't know why, honestly, that CFL never took off in Toronto, but it did in Western Canada. I don't know specifically why it didn't happen. I would kill to be in an environment that supports a CFL team like Calgary or Saskatchewan, right, Like Edmonton, and you go to these games. It's like freezing, it's minus 40 degrees and there's like 60,000 people at this game freezing their nuts off. Like that, to me is amazing. With those stupid they ring these bells Cowbells, cowbells. Yeah, I mean they just don't do that. Like the vibe is way better, but Toronto BMO field, where the Toronto FC plays, there's like 5,000 people at these games and, um, you know it, just, it just doesn't do it. It just doesn't do it. I mean we have the Jays, we have the Leafs, we have the Raptors. These other cities don't. I guess is probably why they don't have anything else I mean. 

01:02:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So anyways, yeah, if you do want to come listen. No promises now, given that I actually didn't realize that I have to miss something in football, but potentially we can still swing it. Zach will step in in your place at least in july wait, you're stepping in for what you're gonna, zach, you're gonna come to the game. Yeah, zach will go to the great cup. 

01:02:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He can't speak, he lost, zach lost his voice, he lost his voice. Last thing, last. This is I mean there's been a lot of plugs in this show. It's not finalized yet, but we are doing CFL content for the Hammer this year, which will include Kevin Davis at Boogie Down Picks. That will be on the Forward Progress channel Over here on YouTube and consumable in audio format as well. So If you're interested in betting the cfl kevin davis, so many sports this year we got something that's coming, it's brewing, it's almost finalized. It'll be there on forward progress. So make sure you're subscribed to forward progress youtube channel. 

01:02:59
And again, for christ's sake, hit the bell all notifications absolutely obliterate the bell so that you get notified in real time when videos are up and if you don't like CFL, yeah, you got to ring that bell, like Hector Salamanca. Wow, there you go. 

01:03:16 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
Great reference. 

01:03:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding ding, If you don't want to watch CFL or care about CFL, then hopefully at least they'll give out some winning picks. 

01:03:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So if you like winning money betting the sport, it's very easy to like it. For a while I was a huge KBO fan big KBO fan. Now I don't know You're a. Wnba fan. I love the WNBA. Wnba is great when you're winning money. The sport is great. Kevin, appreciate your time. We'll end it off. Same closing question as everyone else. If you could go back five years and talk to a previous version of yourself, what advice would you give to your former self, so five years ago. 

01:04:03 - Kevin Davis (Guest)
It was right when PASPA was repealed and it was in my first year of 3-1-1 where I was sucking it up because I wanted a job that I couldn't get fired from, that had good benefits and of course, I could be on the phone having fun, but the micromanagement was insane. My advice would have been leave that job, pursue something in sports betting, because this is taking off and this is what you love. It was something I loved doing, going to Dominican barbershop and now it could actually be a career. And I guess, like the general advice for other people is like you shouldn't suck up having a safe job if you have a passion somewhere else where you have an aptitude for it. 

01:04:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I like it. Do what you love. Never work a day in your life 100%. 

01:04:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
His name is Kevin Davis At BoogieDownPicks on on twitter. Make sure you check out 90 degrees. I promise you you will not regret it. You can find it right here on the circles off youtube channel or consumable in audio format. We will be back next week. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you smash that like button. 

01:05:06
I want you to hammer that like button hopefully you haven't hurt your mouse enough that you can't click the like button, as I want you to hammer that like button. Hammer that like button. Hopefully you haven't hurt your mouse enough that you can't click the like button as well, so maybe you do the like button first, then you obliterate the bell right afterwards. This has been Circles Off, episode number 104. We'll catch everyone next week. Thanks for watching.