00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off, we're joined by gambling Twitter OG. He goes by Professor Shine. He's been around in the space for a long time. He's going to share a lot of his experiences, what he thinks of the new regulated space. We're going to talk about all that and more. This week's episode of Circles Off starts now. Come on, let's go. Welcome to Circles Off, episode number 107, right here on the Circles Off YouTube channel, also available in podcast form, part of the Hammer Betting Network. It's Rob Pozzola, joined by Johnny from Betstaff, what's going on? 

00:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Bobby Pizza in the flesh. We're here in the studio. I got my Super Mario Brothers shirt on. 

00:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I like that shirt. 

00:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Old trusty bullet bill. 

00:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, that's when you purposely sandbag for the first couple laps. 

00:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, that is it. 

00:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You get one of those and take care of business. 

00:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What's the greatest Super Mario game. 

00:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would look Mario Kart or just pure Super Mario, any Super Mario 3 for any. 

00:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Mario Brothers 3. Yeah, that is a classic, so that's the best one. 

01:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It still holds up. 

01:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Even if you go back and play it now, like nothing. 

01:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What's the record is like it could be because you can skip the world eight minutes or eight, yeah, minutes. It's pretty crazy. I tried to do that for a while. Actually I watched like youtube videos. 

01:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I couldn't get close though the final world is extremely difficult. 

01:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's tough to beat fast. You got, you can get to world eight in the first level, you got to waste a lot of your life doing something like that, practicing something like that. But all the Mario games are great, man. Like you know, the thing is like I grew up on video games stuff that I remember when I was a child that I played like I played GoldenEye for N64 nonstop. Go back and try to play GoldenEye now Horrible yeah. 

01:39 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
After two minutes you're like how? After two minutes you're like how did I do? 

01:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
this Super Mario still holds up. But we got episode number seven 107. Lots of sevens in sports, tons of sevens in sports, including Canadian legend Tim Horton. Timmy, timmy Horton. No, I mean, that's not really the number one. 

02:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There's tons of quarterbacks. Well, his number is retired in the rafters at the Scotiabank Arena. I was number seven. 

02:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You were number seven, zach oh yeah, zach Phil. Oh yeah, do you have a birthday that falls on seven or something, july 11. So why'd you wear seven, seven, 11. Oh, I see, seven for July. Then you know what I changed to when I went to a different team and they had a seven already 77 team, and they had a seven already 77 got. 

02:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It makes sense. That's. That's dumb. What are you talking about? That's dumb, not, not the, not what he just said. He just showed me his. He has a tattoo of the roman numeral seven. 

02:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, that was what. That's the cool thing to do. Nowadays you can't put the actual number. You have to do the roman numerals. Yeah, that's the cool thing to do another language. 

02:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Uh, another one leafs legend from when I was a kid gary rob. Oh, you're gonna see, gary roberts, who are you thinking? 

02:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
well, he's not really like a leafs legend. Who's more like? No, no, sorry, when I was a kid, my guy that I'm thinking of I wouldn't be predominantly thought of. With the least I was thinking lanny mcdonald, because the best mustache in like the history of yeah, he is a leafs legend as well and flames, but but, I grew up on a lot of number sevens in hockey Chris Chelios, paul Coffey, ray Bork wore seven for a long time, wasn't he only 77? 

03:12
77 and seven as well, but everyone wore seven, even baseball players growing up. 

03:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's the best Italian soccer player with seven? 

03:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
With seven? That's a good question. You catch me off guard, because 10 is like the prototypical number. I'm sure there's been a bunch of sevens that I'm forgetting about. Well, not Italian, but Ronaldo. Yeah, I don't speak his name. 

03:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Why not? 

03:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, he's one of the greatest players ever, but he came to my team, juventus, and it all went downhill from there. You could say the collapse of Juventus started with the arrival of Cristiano Ronaldo. 

03:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What do you think of Messi coming over to the MLS? That's cool. 

03:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Secure the bag. Yeah, it's cool. Is it even that much Well, relative to what he would have got in Saudi Arabia? 

03:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
no, yeah, I don't think it's a secure the bag moment. 

04:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was like 50 mil a year. It's a little depressing because inter miami already played in toronto this year, like toronto hosted them, so we won't see them. But I don't know like it's. It's a different league the mls. I watch a lot of mls. Surprisingly for people out there. It's just like a completely different league. It's more physical. Like you're playing against mess. These teams are going to play against inter miami. There's gonna be three people covering messy the entire game and he's gonna have to try to get the ball to someone else who's not gonna be able to do anything because Inter-Miami stays. 

04:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So I'm not the biggest soccer fan, so correct me if I'm wrong, but is he, like bar none, now best player to ever play in the MLS? Well, oh yeah, 100%, but like no, I'm saying like, even at his current skill level, I would say yes yes, like he's gone a little bit downhill since winning the World. Cup. Obviously he's not going to be the same as he was in his prime. 

04:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The best player to ever play in the MLS was Sebastian Jovinko, because he came over in his prime Like, scored a bunch of goals and just dominated the league. 

04:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So at that time was Jovinko better than how Messi is right now. 

04:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, because Sebastian Jovinko was a bench player for Juventus when he came over. 

05:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But that's what I'm saying Is he currently in his prime? Was he better than Messi would be this year? I don't think so. So then, messi's the greatest player in MLS history? 

05:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think so, but like it depends on, like, the motivate. Like Messi's, what? 36 or 37? Like he's old, it's, I don't know. We'll see what happens, but like these types of things don't typically end well. You know, I'm saying like I'm not going to watch a single game, so I can't comment but it's cool to know. 

05:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I know like zlatan obviously came over and I guess previous he was the best player to ever play in mls not in the mls, but like just overall. 

05:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, there's like a lot, lots of people come over at like the end of their careers. Bastion schweinsteiger was like a big german player. David beckham yeah, exactly these guys come over at the end of their careers like it's, that's probably the way, like I hope messy tears it up and scores a bunch of how long is it going? 

05:51
to be there one or two years probably, and then what? Right off into the sunset, retire securing the additional bag in the mls. Um, I was gonna say speaking of securing the additional, but it's actually a horrible transition to our Pinnacle sponsorship. It's a really, really bad way to promo them. Pinnacle is the official sponsor, though, of Circle Soft. They are now available in Ontario. Find out what pro bettors have known for decades Pinnacle's, where the best bettors play. You must be 19 plus, not available in the us, and please play responsibly. We got to meet the pinnacle guys in uh last week in person yeah, in person, actually a couple of cool cats I'm just going to take a step back here into this locker behind. 

06:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Let me, let me give a um quick update. So we talked to a bunch of the guys and, uh, for all those in ontario who've been saying pinnacle, what are they doing? No app yet. Let's just say we can't announce anything. But there is stuff coming, going to be a lot of good stuff coming from pinnacle in regards to their actual product and, as always, the odds are top notch. And there you have it. 

06:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We got some swag that we will actually be giving away, uh, in the near future as well, so listen pin Pinnacle hoodie, established 1998. Is that what it says? 

07:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, just like producer Zach. 

07:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Is it? You're a 98 guy? Yeah, wow, horrible year, what? No, I'm just kidding around. All right, so we got some swag. Here's the one thing. Here's the one thing. I looked at our Google Analytics about 15 minutes ago, searched last 90 days. In the last 90 days, you know what percentage of people that watch this show are subscribed to this channel? 

07:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Including the audio. 

07:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, because I don't Just YouTube, just YouTube views. 

07:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't know what was it. 34%, very close not bad. 

07:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think you said this last week. No, it's 31, 31 in the last 90 days. 

07:46
We're down 69 of you the nicest number, 69 of you watching right now or in the last 90 days are not subscribed, and that's a big mistake. You should definitely subscribe to this channel. We will be doing giveaways, like I mentioned, for pinnacle, over the course of the next few months. We're introducing some new educational content in july as well. So we all the emails you get, all the all that we get that you give us and the dms keep them coming. We do value them, but a lot of them are like can you guys do this topic for one of your shows? And we did sports betting myths or misconceptions last week. That's one that we can do for a while, but some of these topics are very short. They only need three to five minutes. So, rather than devoting an entire show to a three to five minute topic, we'll be doing some shorter form educational content that's coming in July. Make sure you're subscribed, make sure you hit that notification button, make sure you like the content subscribed. Make sure you hit that notification button, make sure you like the content. And one more thing again. 

08:48
This is very near and dear to me. I consume a lot of content out there. Every now and then I go down the YouTube rabbit hole. I type in like a sports betting topic. So we did sports betting myths last week, right? So I type it in on YouTube. I see the other content that comes up. I watch some of that Within two minutes I want to have a stroke when I watch this stuff. Now, this isn't, like you know, me being like a narcissist or whatever, but both myself and Johnny I've been betting on sports for a living for a while. Johnny does very well betting on sports himself. We have a pretty good grasp of how this industry works. We want to grow circles off as big as possible. So, again, easiest way for us to do that is for you watching or listening. Tell your friends Like, literally pause this video unless you're driving your car right now and you're listening, or whatever. 

09:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Pull over, absolutely hammer that subscribe button and send. Oh, is that a new? 

09:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
graphic just zach. So like this is zach. You know his contract's coming to an end soon. It's like renegotiation period, so he's really up and stepping up his game. Please let other people know about this, because we got great feedback for last week and even look at the comments of the sports betting myths last week, it's a bunch of people like oh, I didn't know this, I never saw this before, never heard this. So that's great. Appreciate all of that and appreciate everyone's support. We're now joined by our guest this week on Circles Off. If you're part of gambling Twitter, you may have come across him at some point. Goes by shine the prof at professor shine on twitter. His bio reads sometimes plus ev. Sometimes I just gamble. I got to meet him at bet bash 2 in las vegas last year and we now welcome in professor shine to circles off. How's it going? Shine? 

10:39 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
hey, how are you? Pretty good, not bad could be worse could always be worse. 

10:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm glad to be on with this. Yeah, we're glad to have you on. I've wanted to do this for a while and for some context for people that you know follow this show religiously. A couple of weeks ago, I did an episode where I basically ranted for half an hour about the state of gambling Twitter and it being toxic, and me and Shine exchanged some DMs after that about the state of gambling Twitter and it being toxic, and me and Shine exchanged some DMs after that about the state of gambling Twitter. So we'll get into that a little bit later on in the show. But let's start, Shine, by you giving some of your personal background and mainly how you got involved in the sports betting space. 

11:19 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I go back sadly a long time. I say sadly because I can't, uh, you know, some Saturday was the 29th anniversary of that OJ drive. Wow, from 94, yeah, and I remember that some. Well, looking at it I'm like how could that be 29 years? But then I'm thinking, you know that was also the strike year, mlb strike. So I'd say I go back to betting, I mean to the 80s. 

11:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know. So I kind of segmented where you know random betting to. 

12:01 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
You know betting what you don't know what you're doing to betting betting that you kind of think you know what you're doing to. Okay, I have a little bit of a clue. That's kind of how the last 35 or so years have gone. I mean, I bet the strike games in 87, nfl strike games. I remember I had $50 on a bunch of Joe Gibbs games. 

12:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Time flies, brother, time flies. Yeah, I'm like. 

12:29 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I mean so when people you know and then I remember thinking at 88, just to show you the time, there was no Sunday night games. 

12:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
They had. 

12:40 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Sunday night games, the second half of the year and a lot of the media people. I think I might be older than them now, or just remember thinking from a gambling point of view we were like when is that Sunday, or was it Thursday night? 

12:56
Thursday night, I'm sorry, thursday night game. When's that? No, I'm right, sunday night game. When's the Sunday night game going to come up? And that is so many games. So there was there was this anticipation of like Wednesday game and I remember betting the giants over the saints in like the second Sunday game and like Sims was quarterback, both teams had good defenses, so that's 88. For some, reason. 

13:21
I thought that was I'm thinking back. I was like, was that 98 or 88? No, thought that was, I'm thinking back. I was like, was that 98 or 88? No, that was 80. So that's how far back I go and I'd say right around the early 90s I thought I had a clue because I bet a lot of what would be termed now as contrarian bets. I just bet, I just kind of everybody I knew bet overs and favorites and I just said that they're never, right. 

13:48
So it's probably makes sense to play the opposite side. So we, I remember there was a local bookie and he, I remember he was kind of big and I used to call him up and say, hey, do you know how much action do you have on like new England? 

14:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He says I didn't write them all day so I'll be like hey, can I have new england for? 

14:08 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
100, so that's kind of how that's then that, and it wasn't a big strategy if you think about it. 

14:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That was well, it was a very different time, right. So, like we've talked to older bettors before and you know, rest in peace, dink as well. I used to talk to him about this all the time but, like the evolution of sports betting, at that time the market wasn't really as efficient as it is now. Like you're getting, at that time, you know, people are betting based off the morning line in the newspaper and, like the, the odds weren't even moving for for these games, right, like it's it's night and day difference. So I think a lot of people who are like, oh, the contrarian bet against the public strategy. This dates back a long time where it actually worked, but nowadays, you know, there's just so much the market's way more dynamic than it was back then. 

14:53 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Shine, I was a college student and I was a business major and I still couldn't get the concept of arbitrage you know, but it's what I was doing. 

15:04
You know, once it got to be like the around 92, 93, the Phillies world series that strike year right Early nineties because and then once you got into like 95 and 96, I think Don Best's first year, right around that, maybe right around that time, and a lot of bookies did not have it. So they're getting phone lines that were 15-minute changes and you know, back then you had to call. Obviously if it was a let's just take football, because it was the biggest market they wouldn't open until 11, quarter of 12 Eastern time. And then some of the savvier guys wouldn't give you four o'clock games, they'd wait till the line changed and then play baseball that you couldn't get any on the phone till 6, 30 and again they would give you seven o'clock eastern games and that's it. But then you had a contingent of people that just didn't care, some of the old guys who just thought you know what they were of people that just didn't care, some of the old guys who just thought you know what they were going to do. They didn't change with the times but they were what they had done in the seventies. 

16:10
That's the line, that's what it is, and you know I would just play those guys against each other. It's kind of how things would work out. You would, you were getting, you know obscene middles and I would still play. You know obscene middles and I would still play. You know the side that I liked, you know, so it helped when you had less parity and you had like a power team. The Braves were a power team. And then you know I think we mentioned Toronto, so you know the Braves were, with their dynamic, you know with their staff, were always, you know, minus 2-1, 240, 220. You'd have local guys that would make it. You know, minus 240, minus two runs. 

16:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right. 

16:57 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
You know crazy things and that kind of that carried all the way through the Yankee dynasty and then through when Randy Johnson and Schilling pitched for Arizona and Pedro Martinez but pitched for the Red Sox. They literally didn't want that action. So instead of taking it off the board, they would give some crazy lines and you could play, obviously, the dog and they were happy to write it. They would say yeah, you know, you know, give me that Of course they weren't happy when the games were like you know, four, three, you know, give me that Of course they weren't happy when the games were like you know 4-3. You know you could get cut off, but that's kind of what was going on. You know, when you're getting a line more quickly, and you know that that famous office that was in this area, that was in the Philadelphia area and pretty much what they were doing. 

17:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They were manipulating the lines is what they were doing I didn't realize that at the time. 

17:57 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I just knew that I knew a couple peripheral people that worked in that office because they were looking for they would look for accounts Similar to what goes on now. You know, in a sense they were looking for they would look for accounts similar like what goes on now. You know, in a sense they were looking for accounts like hey, you have an account, yeah, okay, uh, and you know, we'll give you these, you know these games, what's your limit? And okay, we'll take, you know, 25, that kind of thing, uh, and I didn't trust that. I was like I don't know if these are Billy Walters games, like you know it could be Fred Walters, like, come on. 

18:29
So I, I had notebooks that I used to chart the baseball and chart the game and charge the line movements on. And you know, after a few, you know, tedious months of doing that, I realized they did have an edge and what was going on was that edge because they were manipulating the line. I mean, look at college basketball, it just stands out in my head. I remember there was a distinct game it was early in the year, probably December of Virginia was laying like five and they, you had those old contingent of bookies that were holding the five, and then everybody else had eight and a half and nine. 

19:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And I'm thinking like what's going on here, like this doesn't mean, and I remember I like virginia, so obviously I bet the five and oh, I really hope this falls in here. 

19:19 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
at the time I didn't even know the percentages of the push, percentages of you know what are the chances of a full five, six, seven, eight. I just know that if it was three common sense I probably got a pretty good shot. We're only paying 110. So there was a lot of that going on. The sad part is is that it came along for me a little too young and I was by myself, so I didn't. I thought that was never going to end. So similarly, like the old bookies didn't change, I didn't change once we got into 2002 and 2003, when everybody was able to get done best. 

19:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Seems like again. Obviously this is back in the day. We're talking upwards of, you know, 15, 20 years. By the way, sean, you look I can like again. Obviously this is back in the day. We're talking upwards of 15, 20 years ago. 

20:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
By the way, Sean, I can estimate your age based off of how you're talking. You're looking good for your approximate age there. 

20:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No grays from what I can see. 

20:18 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
That's why I have the avatar. It made me look 70 because I seem so old and even that's where the name came from. You have a group of friends I listen to your pod Everybody kind of bets. Where you're around bookies, you're around bettors. Whatever You're around, bar atmosphere. Everywhere around this area it's like every five feet there's a bar and then people bet sports and I remember I would try to talk people who were just getting killed off of these favorites. You know they're a favorite for a reason Just crazy. Every cliche you can think of. I'm like well, wait a minute, you know. You know this team runs the ball a lot, you know. 

21:04
I think it matters if they get a lead they don't have to pass, you know, and so I okay, professor, you know, thanks for the tip. You know that's kind of. It was kind of like you know it wasn't a term of endearment actually, it was them kind of making fun of you and taking the fun out of it, because, god forbid, if you have a dog you know that you really like and he's plus nine and they lose 40 to three. You know they. It's just you feel that's why I? 

21:32
think, my idea at that time, or my thinking at the time. 

21:35
Maybe people don't play dogs because you feel stupid yeah when they lose, you're embarrassed, you're the only guy, you're like the guy and the only guy standing in the one line and people, people are like, ah, you loser, who didn't know this 43, you dummy. But you know, and I know I'm going to date myself, as I've already had. But you know the late 90s for football and baseball favorites were just crushing. I mean Montana, it was like favorite over. 1990 stands out in my head because the Eagles had a really good team. Everybody was good. 

22:12
It's just, everybody in the NFC's were good and the Bash brothers for the A's were big and they were just crushing teams. And they just come off the 89 Earthquake, world Series and all. And you know, if you played them in the Red Sox, you just, you know, if you were a bookie, you had to be like, oh my God, you know, because they were just playing unbelievable. And then in football you had nothing but favorites. It's the Super Bowl the year before and the championship game. They favored over, favored over favor. So I think there was just favored over just in every sport in everyone's head. And then of course was the beginning of the bowls that time, yeah so it was again everybody was playing michael jordan. 

22:55
Michael jordan, michael jordan. You would have to tell me what was going on in hockey then, because I think that's that was the beginning of uh, detroit red wings, uh big. 

23:03
Yeah, that was the end of Gretzky kind of and the Flyers had the one unbelievably strange year in 87. And then so hockey, I keep separate, but the three major team sports, it was just favorite and over. So I was in season. He found some stuff there's point, spreads, spreads, there's money. But still, you know, people were like come on, how did you not know sam fram was? You're gonna kill this team, you know but it's still like that nowadays too. 

23:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean as much as like that. You're referencing stuff from the early 90s. You still get the same stuff nowadays right, where I think people tend to gravitate towards favorites a little bit more, like you mentioned. They don't, don't want to be like you know quote, unquote the idiot if a team gets blown out. Oh, how did you take the 14 and a half with the Texans? You know like they stink. We should have known, of course. I mean. That's why the point spread is there. The point spread is the equalizer. We know these teams stink right. 

24:00 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Well, we know that. You know that. You know that, of course. But a lot of these they're like well, I don't know 14. Maybe it should be 20. You hear much more of that than saying oh, I think his team has a shot to stay in the game. Nobody wants that and nobody wants to bet. Still, to this day, nobody likes overs. You hear it all the time. I hear it. 

24:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I just heard it two days ago Unders, you're saying Unders. 

24:24 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I heard it two days ago. 

24:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I just can't bet an under, it's true. For people that want to sweat their bets, it's the worst sweat right, Because overs you're always alive. 

24:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, it's not over until the actual game is over. That's why people naturally gravitate towards it. It's not over until it's over, but once it's over it's over is what they say about the overs shine. 

24:47 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Listen, I yeah, I had a. 

24:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm sorry Again, I was just going to say, the more you talk, the more it seems like. The more I hear you talk about how it was back in the day, the more I realized it's honestly exactly the same. 

24:58 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Yeah, there's all. Now. There's Twitter, now there's social media. Now it's more like you know those. 

25:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't want to say stupid, but those attitudes are now out for everybody to see, exactly Like there's still sharp guys trying to get accounts, trying to take percentages, there's still square guys and girls trying to basically make a narrative that doesn't exist about why one team's going to be here. You still got to convince a lot of people think the only thing that's different is, uh, probably an all-time negative bv move to not have a sunday night football game. That is where you, where are you going to go to chase your losses or dunk your wins back for the day? 

25:36 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
for all those you know the first eight weeks. Think about this like they the anticipation, because it was, it was initially, I think so, four o'clock and then and then what done after the four o'clock game? 

25:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
like three, four games and done? Watch the highlights of the day. 

25:52 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Wow, I don't even know well espn was, berlin was huge because you didn't have a dish. So you know or or no, my one friend lived on a farm up in Phillipsburg. 

26:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So he had a dish, but everybody else didn't have a dish. 

26:06 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
But if you didn't have a dish ESPN like SportsCenter or not, SportsCenter, whatever, Berman and Tom Jackson Primetime, countdown, primetime it was huge. It could have went for four hours, because that's when they were showing people getting blasted across the middle and everybody watched it because it was like, oh my god, I didn't notice that, how did that happen in the game, how did that and this, this kind of carried, all the way, that carried longer than than than I think is as the years are going together like I remember watching the uh the rams when the the Rams great show on turf years that's 98, 99. 

26:49
And I remember they cut in to one of the game play bars we were at because they didn't have a dish. I think most big bars have their small ones did and it kept going for two. So we were like what are they doing? They're pigs. Look at these pigs. They're running it up. I can't believe they never mentioned the kicker got hurt. So we didn't find out the kicker got hurt until primetime, you know. So you know, of course you got one guy in the back. It's just great for fantasy, you know. So it really is no different. It's just now. It's out there and I wouldn't say there's more people, there's just more vocal people and of course, we can get into the ads on the other end about it as well. 

27:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And so you can tell my perspective of this is from pre-pass-by to pass-by to post-pass. Pre-pass-by is not even doing it a disservice for how far back we're going. 

27:53 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I mean pass-by is 92, and I remember pass-by distinctively. Oh sorry, you're saying pre-pass-by not even the pass-by repeal. 

28:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I thought you were talking pre-pass-by repeal. 

28:04 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
States didn't even think about sports gambling. 

28:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's for Tony at the bar before they even passed the initial legislation to make it legal sure before they even because there was an idea. 

28:17 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Bill Bradley was thinking, well, we need to put this down on paper before Atlantic City gets cute or other states get cute, and where this was my big you know it was funny. I didn't get a lot of I, I a lot of people read these tweets in like 2015, 14, but I didn't get a lot of engagement. I almost think they were. It was over everybody's head, uh, in a sense, where I was saying you know, um, I remember that time and it was. It was an election year, like Christie. Todd Whitman became governor so and Atlantic city kind of had a monopoly. I don't even think Mohegan sun was open yet. I know Foxwoods may have been open, but Mohegan sun? 

28:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
they had no competition. 

29:00 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
There was some study I read that was like I think a sixth of the population could get to Atlantic city within five hours. Something crazy, a demographic stuff. 

29:09
And it made sense that Atlantic city was just like hey, you know, we have it locked down and Passport carved out a thing for New Jersey. They said hey, listen, if you just you want to take a year to think about things, you can get sports gambling also. And then that's it, we're shutting the door behind you. And it was a I don't think Whitman was elected, I think it was an election year, so there's no need to touch that topic. And I remember there was a couple degenerate, you know, writers that wrote something like hey, maybe they should get sports game, just in case this casino thing goes monopoly, kind of goes away. And of course they didn't. We know what happened. 

29:51
And when we revisited this case as early back as 2009, when Delaware initially tried to make their parlay straight games and then New Jersey got involved in 2010, tried to make their parlay straight games and then New Jersey got involved in 2010. I thought the following of Pasco would have been the same thing. I thought it would just be like hey, is this going to be New Jersey and Nevada, almost as a litmus test to say, okay, let's see if there's like the league said, let's see if there's ubiquitous harm. We now have another state. We know we'll get New York people. We know we'll get Philadelphia people. Let's test it. And I was way off. That's not what happened. 

30:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So, Shine, we talked a bunch about back in the day, but the people want to know the people want to know. What are you doing right now? How is uh? What are you betting on right now? 

30:48 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
uh, uh, baseball, so, uh, to give you okay. So I had to give you the beginning. I, uh, I really started as a uh, of course I bet NFL, but I knew even then you can jam 10 baseball seasons into a football season. It's just there's just not enough games. I mean you can bet more, but I learned how to, how to convey it to say you know, you can have really good angles or really good something good in NFL and still go five and five, right, you know, there's just not enough stuff. Like, I still bet first halves in the NFL, I bet totals in the second half of the year and I've had people ask me you know, oh, what do you? You know what's your record, what do you do? I'm not trying to get a line out of it. I, I get, I get a good amount because my, my risk is higher. But I've had years where I'm like, oh, I'm gonna crush and I go. You know, 20 and 20 yeah, I've never gotten killed, which is a good sign. 

31:55
Uh, same thing with bowl games. I've had I had a literally like 13, 14 years where I did not lose in bowl games. I just, if you got the right matchup, uh, they would. The market was just slightly off, uh, especially on, uh on. Uh. Certain dogs you know uh, or certain favorites, run the ball really well. 

32:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think was like a bowl game thing. That was not accounted for for years. 

32:24 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, and there was like really really, really elite defenses. It didn't matter who they, as long as they didn't play like the unbelievable offense. 

32:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right Yep. 

32:33 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
They just they got there even as favorites. So there was stuff you could chop up. But then I kind of gravitated more toward baseball because I was a baseball fan, always, was a college basketball fan. I always considered myself a basketball, almost a savant, like I used to go. There was a time I had a newsletter that was trying to copy Dave Gibbons' Northeast newsletter. Dave Gibbons was a guy who had a newsletter of all basketball players that Street and Smith's kind of used to just copy off of him. 

33:07
And this was back, you know, in the eighties, when I was a height cause I was obsessed with the. You know we have really good basketball teams in this area. But like, what about this team Dunbar? Like, oh, my God, you know. And then Jersey city had David Rivers and and David and uh, uh kid who played in Villanova. They had two small guys. I'm like what was that team like? So I was obsessed with with a couple of these players and growing up, uh, camden had, uh, a team that was myth, the mythological number one in the country, and I kind of went down that path. Like what do you mean, number one? They didn't play everybody. So I kind of went toward that. So I got to the point where it came into betting that. 

33:51
I was like nobody knows more than basketball than I do, I said I don't care, I don't care who it is. And then soon I realized, you know, when I started charting my games and then charting what was coming out of the office, the office games were better than mine, but my games were not bad. For a stretch they were positive. But what you're thinking then is oh, who cares? You're getting 11 units out of college basketball. Oh you, basketball. I won 2,200 hours. 

34:26
But when I got smarter later, even if I didn't bet the games, I would chart them. So if I had something to add into what I thought were good angles or good models I hate to say the word model, because that sounds like you're a math quant, but that's kind of what it becomes if you ask the right questions but I didn't feel comfortable like sharing with anybody or anything. And then I wasn't sure to bet a lot of my own money. So I just didn't bet at all and I would write it all down and figure this this will be there next year. So that kind of takes it kind of takes us to. I mean, if you want to jump ahead 20 years, it. It's much more difficult now because there's smarter people in this space. That's what it is. 

35:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's just, and there's younger people that are getting smart earlier no-transcript from that that I really wanted to unpack is we talk about this all the time. The importance of bet tracking, like that, came up. This is like from 30 years ago. You can hear the importance of just being able to log your bets and like see where lines are going and uncover edges, certain ways like that. So, uh, just something that we preach all the time but you hear firsthand from from Professor Shine here on Circles Off. 

36:04
I want to talk a little bit about the regulated space now, because you've obviously seen the evolution of betting over many years. You're a New Jersey-based guy-ish, I think, in around that area, grew up in the PPH world. What are the biggest changes you've noticed in the sports betting space now in recent years? Like, how have you personally had to adapt to, to like this changing landscape for your own survival? Like, are you just sitting on money that you've made from years ago and now it's just like I'm willing to gamble a little bit more, or are you actually like undergoing some sort of changes in process to, you know, get more longevity out of the sports betting career now? 

36:43 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I'd say like about 20 years ago I kind of diversified what I had made. I had a four-year run in baseball, actually in every sport. That was pretty good. I almost lost all of it in 04 because I miscalculated. This is probably good if you have a partner or somebody who's a little bit better or a lot better than Matthew than maybe you are. I miscalculated where I thought my edge was over a period from the Major League. 

37:17
Baseball season. It peaked early. I was like, oh, I think I can get you know this much out of this, and I did, and I lost it all back and then some. And if the Giants didn't play overs that year every game, basically I probably would have lost even more. 

37:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Was this during Barry Bonds' era? This is during Barry Bonds' era. 

37:43 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
This is during Barry Bonds' era, and 03 is the year the Marlins beat the Yankees and it was the perfect storm in baseball, of things that you kind of look for. I give the analogy of blackjack. If you're counting a shoe let's say it's a four deck shoe you know, sometimes you get toward the end, where they're about to shuffle, where the count might go so high you can just stop counting. 

38:11
You just say okay, they're going to reshuffle, we might get two, maybe three more hands. Who gives a shit? It's plus nine, whatever is your count, and you have three hands, you turn your brain off and just play. And that's kind of what happened in 03, which is, it seemed like nobody kind of identified the Marlins as a good team until July, and I kind of I was lucky enough to identify it before Memorial Day, and then the Dodgers had this perfect storm where they couldn't hit and they pitched real well and they couldn't set the totals low enough, so you were not going to see a six and so you know, I remember they went to. 

38:57
Colorado and they put the line at Colorado like nine. 

39:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know and I remember it went over two or three games Like that's all but that. 

39:04 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
but by July people, somebody, people smarter than me were kind of on it a little bit. If this had been Twitter or social media, that edge probably would have disappeared much sooner. But it also created a thing. Not only am I, you work so hard to find something like that, you think that it's easy and it you know the next. I think you need another person to be like hey, wait a minute, you know and I didn't have that. 

39:31
So once I got a no5, I I kind of took what I had and did other things uh with it, uh, whether it be a little bit of real estate or another business that I kind of still do too. And this is why I remind people of that, Billy Walters, what they keep bringing up now you know, he's the best sports batter in history, you know. That may be true, but you know, somewhere along the line Billy Walters bought golf courses, Right, you know what I mean. 

40:01
And that real estate. You know, somewhere along the line Billy Waters bought golf courses Right, you know what I mean. And that real estate, you know he had to make money on the five, three or four or five golf courses. So maybe he's got $500 million from the golf courses. You know, at some point Alan Boston even touched on this. He said, you know, alan Boston's I think house was worth a couple million or something, and so they had like a little bit of a downplay and he said you know I still bet, but you know I didn't lose all my money, I just had a big real estate investor. So it can work both ways. 

40:29
I think it's wise to to, as you move forward, to diversify other things. But now look at the diversification that you've done. Now you can get involved in as a, as an entertainer, or make. I've always thought you can get involved in as an entertainer, yep, or make. I've always thought you can make this entertaining. I mean look how I talk. You know what I mean. I think it's the person giving the message. I mean I could sit here and tell you about the phone book. That would probably make you laugh. You know what I mean. So sports, if you're not, if it's not entertaining, you have a problem, right, in a sense. 

41:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, is it just me? No, no, I completely agree with you. It's honestly and what we're going for with Circles Off and what we're going for with the Hammer as a whole. 

41:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Now you can sell pics. That's what it is. 

41:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're trying to bridge like entertainment with. Somebody said that to me. Well, I mean you can. 

41:18 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Somebody said to me early on. I was on a Brian Bullock podcast. Out of the blue I'd been on Twitter. I had got on Twitter really to network and I think I succeeded. But I also got on to be like hey, no, that's not right, you're lying or you know, without being like. I knew some things about some people that were like you know. I didn't post. 

41:44
Right, you know but I just tried to attack the points like no, that's not right, buy off three, you're paying 40 cents, no, like you know that kind of thing. So but somewhere along the line I guess people follow because I was posting things that I was betting line. I guess people follow because I was posting things that I was betting. My thinking at the time was anybody serious is not paying attention to me. But there might be rec batters who might say, hey, you know what, I'm not going to bet every favor on this Major League Baseball board because I, like the pitchers, I'm going to take a look at the White Sox plus 118. You know, that's kind of where I what I was going for. And I think it kind of blew up a little bit quicker than I thought. And on a podcast, brian Bulk asked me what's next? You're going to sell picks. So that was the context of what you said and I kind of was caught flat foot. I was like, no, I didn't even consider that. 

42:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, I want to touch on the Twitter stuff because it's a perfect time because you just brought it up yourself. 

42:45
So a few episodes ago I did an entire segment on gambling twitter and the whole point of it was that, like, collectively, we just need to be better, right? Um, and you listened to that episode. You dm me on twitter. You disagreed and I think you know you to your your point. You think things are. I don't want to put words in your mouth so we can explain it from your point of view, but go ahead and just kind of give me the rebuttal as to why you think that things are. 

43:15 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I don't think it's any worse. I think it was always. It was always a little crazy. I mean it depends what you mean by toxic. Is there more people getting this pitch, just chatting like all crazy? I kind of ignore those people. I actually think they're fine. 

43:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's totally fine Actually I do. I agree, some of the people I'm talking directly to are people that I actually follow Like it is a little bit hypocritical. I kind of get like amusement out of it sometimes as well, but I just don't think it's like progressing sports betting forwards in any way. 

43:55 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Probably not, but I do think Twitter overall. I realized after a little while there's a point maybe everybody on Twitter is selling something. If they're not selling themselves, they're selling, maybe a partnership. They're selling pics, they're selling engagement. Maybe that's what it is. So I'm not against all of Twitter, but I realized early on there were people that were full of shit, that were putting stuff up that made no sense and they were branding themselves based on that. This is even before Rovell. This is even before Pasper. The number one guy that was the number two place was Bell. 

44:44
You know, pregame was just and pregame got a free roll because there was nobody else that ESPN or or sports in general could turn to, because they were ill equipped. They're like okay, oh yeah, what is the line on this? I don't know, they didn't know. I'm like how do you not know? 

45:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
the line on this. 

45:05 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
But they didn't run in the same circles. So they reached out to pregame without knowing that they were a pick-selling chop shop. And when the Donaghy case broke, that's when pregame blew up, because everybody from the New York times that have post Washington post to Washington journal, now we're scrambling to be like, okay, who knows anything about what just happened? And they turned to this guy, not because he knew, I mean, he knew a little bit, but then he kind of got free marketing out of it, you know. And then they never changed, they became the go-to place. So I was on Twitter basically saying, you know, saying, and remember that time Groovin was on too. That's how I met him, because I I followed, he saw my tooth, I saw his. I said, hey, am I wrong? That is this the only guy intent and he's, he's flipping that, that, this engagement for his picks. And then, of course, we went down to and ryan did the article, and then and then once the irony of the whole thing is once everything became legal, Pregan kind of disappeared. 

46:26
You know it's been this other thing. So I think the toxicity level, if you're going to gauge it, it's hard to say if it's more. I don't think it's less, but it's close to the same. Maybe it's more for you because you're more prevalent. Possibly the more you get get, the more your show gets popular 100, so you're right about that. 

46:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So people who don't know, um, grooving it was went by grooving mahoovan, uh on twitter and I guess he would have been like kind of the gatekeeper of gambling twitter back in the day and has since passed away and you know he was very vocal about a lot of this stuff. You know, shine like I've lived through this from the other end of the spectrum, right Like I joined Twitter in 2009, 2010,. Losing better, producing betting content. I was doing basically infomercials for coverscom at that point, whether I knew it or not, and I would tweet at RJ. You know what I don't delete tweets, don't go back to the past, stuff that I regret saying. I just kind of leave it up there because it's a reminder of how far I've actually come as a better over the years. But I used to chum it up with RJ Bell and I even tweeted once. There's something that's probably still out there that people can find about how I find like his information so useful and people would jump into the mentions and be like what? 

47:51 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
the hell is wrong with you. 

47:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're, I may have told you very possibly, but you know what that made me think it? It actually didn't make me question it in any way, because the way that the message was delivered to me was basically personal attacks and kind of that's what I'm getting at nowadays. Right, I think that there's this culture where even smart people or sharp bettors, actually don't even want to share stuff publicly anymore because of the fear of, like other sharp bettors, just nitpicking them and calling them an idiot on certain things. It's just like this culture that maybe always existed but to me, just feels more prevalent nowadays and for probably five years or so, like I know who digs is it like and what his previous twitter name was and and who all these guys are, and they hated me for such a long time because of, like this rj bell stuff and so on and so forth, but they've never really been able to get over the fact that I think some people evolve and aren't the same people that they were before and they're kind of kind of stuck in that mindset altogether. And it's like to me there's just this element of it's a space that, like the gambling Twitter people that we're talking about, like we're such a small collection of the larger gambling Twitter, right, and what happens to all of our accounts? People blocking each other because you know you make fun of someone, they block you. People mute you. 

49:20
All the stuff that we're trying to say kind of just goes out to nowhere, like, literally, if you have a content creator I'll just use him as an example because he comes up all the time but Josh Applebaum, right, josh Insights or whatever public bet percentage guy for VSEN, he's the guy that gets it a lot. He blocks everyone right away. Everyone that's, you know, following him and sees these comments that are coming through about him. They think we, we are insane people. They think, like, who are these nut jobs? Because the message is is not delivered as, like it, you know, any sort of conversation you would have with someone in real life. It's delivered like this guy's a fucking idiot, like don't listen. And then these, all these people who have been groomed by him for years, are like who's this person? Mute, block. What happens on twitter when you mute and block someone? Boom, all of their comments, just they disappear. The people don't even see that shit anymore. It gets basically, you know, goes off into the abyss after a while. So my whole point is that you can quote. 

50:25 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
You can quote, tweet him though, right you? 

50:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I well, I mean I can go like on top of yeah, but but it's the same, like it's honestly like, look at the same. It's the same group of people just interacting with one another and that's fine. Maybe like that's their sense of community that they've built up and and for some people there are no incentives or motivations, right. For some people, like a guy like digs on twitter, right, good, better not selling anything. Never really sold anything. He just like that maybe is his sense of community and how he's going to get through the day. 

50:59
But if there are people that are legitimately trying to help and like improve the betting space, I don't think this is the way to go about it, because I I just think that there's now this, this community of people who are literally just like scared to to put out what their actual beliefs are on betting. Or there's the ones that actually don't know what they're doing. But people will never be privy to the fact that they don't know what they're doing because of the way that people are going after them, if you, if you kind of understand the point. 

51:28 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
One of the best tweets I've ever seen I think it was from perpetual check tweeted at Todd Furman. He said you know what you, the stuff that you're saying actually is better for me, but I still wish you would shut up, which I thought was great. In other words, I don't think Diggs and all of Siva, I don't think they care about moving forward or anything. 

51:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I agree. 

51:57 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I think and why should they Think about it You're in a select group of people. Let's say you're the one person you know of winning, betting, winning bettors, this side thing of just making as many people that are in this space you want people to come in and file betting splits. If you're winning, better they should. If things work correctly and regulators did their job, which you know we're going to get to that, they should create more opportunity if you know what you're doing. So the trolling of people like Applebinds it's just because the nature of Twitter is it's on your phone, like you know, you're at the doctor's office or you're sick of staring at the lines. You know you shoot something off. Personal. You just draw a line on personal, like I don't know what do you mean personal? You're short, you're fat, like I don't. Like you know. 

53:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think debate is healthy in a sense, you know I think fair debate and I troll Applebaum. 

53:14 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
It's really not even Applebaum's fault. I'll tell you why. Applebaum is just trying to sell what he thinks is sellable. I mean, he's a shill for DK and the problem is the people that employ him. Those are the people who should get trolled and I mean they're giving him a form. My problem with back before legalization was ESPN and the like were giving Bell the forum. You don't need to give him that forum. Do a little bit of research on your own. You don't need to use him. 

53:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're giving him free advertising. But, sean, even to cut you off there. It's actually so hard to do that research because, again, when there's only 1% of the population that wins, your voice just gets lost, and especially when that 1% of the population comes across like the most arrogant assholes on the planet, then it's very easy to ignore someone when it's like that. So if you start looking into this stuff in the sports betting space, it's truly a unique space. 

54:38 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Do you think it hurts circles off? 

54:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If people troll and say, hey, one of the things on the website was wrong or whatever. 

54:48 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I don't think it hurts at all. 

54:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, I don't. I think we love the debate. We personally love the debate because Sure, anything, I listen to. 

54:57 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
you, love the debate. Actually, I thought it was great that you had Fezzik on, yeah, and you know, you got him into a corner that I actually he became sympathetic in a sense. I you got him into a corner that I actually he became sympathetic in a sense. I thought you were all. I thought everything was fair and on board. Because here's the thing If you sell I don't know, let's say I'm selling chicken, right, so I start selling chicken tomorrow, okay, chicken sandwiches, and I start putting out semi-raw sandwiches, right, and people start trolling me on Twitter. 

55:28
Let's imagine that I don't put them out. Well, they just suck. People like your chicken sandwiches suck. I mean, are you crazy Charging fifteen dollars for that sandwich? Ok, well, is that constructive feedback or is he just had a bad sandwich? So you know, if he tells other people, how many people are going to listen to him, they might say, hey, I went out a sandwich here. I think the sandwich is fine, so, but I can't complain and say, well, how come, not everybody likes these sandwiches, like it, you know. And then, plus, if I'm buying the chicken, you know, off the bat out of someone's truck, that's like you know, and it's not really chicken. That's kind of what the you kind of. The analogy for tatties. You're kind of just winging. You're lying about the construction of the bat. It's not to my fetish, it's to my other tatties. But you see, the analogy I'm drawing is, if I'm selling, everything's fair. It's fair to me. One of my employees might have been rude to you or something no-transcript or whoever it is now. 

57:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But for me it was never and I say this in all honesty it was never about doing it to like pander to my audience, it was more so. This thing that you say really bothers me or you're misleading people and somebody needs to shed light on it, right. But I do think that there's just like now it's kind of devolved to the point where it's just like a community of people that really have no motivate. It's just like kind of the best way I could put it is just like people being shitty human beings. Like it's one thing to call someone out if you're like there's a motivation to try to help people get better or bring attention to these scammers and whatever, but I actually don't think that's the case. I think that's what bothers me the most about the space now is, I think it's just people trying to fit in amongst, like this community and it's for all the wrong reasons, right, it's like oh yeah, we can make fun of all these losing bettors or whatever. I mean, I just don't get it. Maybe it's a-. 

58:01 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Also, I remember, this is a competitive atmosphere. 

58:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's part of it as well, I mean you said, it happens here. Like I know guys like Rufus, for example, a friend of mine right Like Rufus wins at betting sports. He's doing really well every single year, but he'll post a tweet and he'll have like a million people going down his throat and call him out on this and it's like there's what did you think of his Christmas debacle? Which one Rufus which one Rufus. For Rufus Unabated. You'll have to fill me in more than I sell it. 

58:34 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Yeah, it blew up because he put the teaser he put long teasers on Unabated and you know, people were pit mad and that got a lot of back and forth and I think there was. There was reasons on both sides and I was literally walking my dogs going. Oh my god, look at this. Like you know, I thought it was fun. I was like, oh, christmas isn't so boring, so and there was back and forth and I guess some of it got nasty, but but I mean, I give CBO some stuff. Some of the tweets are are. I do find some of them funny as much as I hate to admit that I do find whenever it's not about you Well? 

59:19
no, it's not Listen the creative insults are very good. I mean what they got on me that you complain about everything. Well, I was having a bad day, I just moved into a house. Nope, I had what they got on me. They'd complain about everything. Well, I was having a bad day, I just moved into a house. Nope, I had you know one TV and they put both baseball games on at the same time, so I'm not supposed to complain, but I should get made fun of at certain times I should get made fun of more probably than. 

59:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I am. 

59:46 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
But that became like a big deal that unabated, because then it led into larger questions of, okay, what is unabated? You know what are they here for? If he's going to do that, did he firebomb people on purpose? This was a question that came up, you know, because he's not goth. So to me I didn't say anything for a while. To me I didn't say anything for a while and then when I did say something, you know they got a little bit mad at me. Because I say I can't get mad at me. 

01:00:18
I think I'm being fair. There's both sides have a point For sure, you know you're fair to say any business. Well, what is the main objective here? Where can you scale If you don't scale to a sports book buys you? Yeah, you're gonna, everybody's got a number. Yep, you know I mean I shit on dk. But if they came to this house right now gave me 60 million, I'd probably be like, hey, I'm dk, I'll probably get fired a year. Because I would get fired. Because I would be like, yeah, I'm with DK, we suck. You know what I mean. I probably would do something like that. I get myself fired. But, like you know, I think they were a little bit tougher on you. I do disagree with Seth and the rest of his got where I do think you can change, like they have that analogy of once you're this, you're always that I think Seth famously said once you blow a goat, you're always a goat blower, or something like that. 

01:01:20
But see, here's where I disagree with that. If you have a busted sink, right, and I'm at your house and I fix your sink, that doesn't make me a plumber, right, right, I'm not really a plumber, I just fixed your sink once. Am I going to get inundated with people saying, hey, you're a plumber, no, no, no, no, you did that. I guess what he's thinking is once you go down a path of ill repute, it's tough to go back, but not if you have another channel. I mean, look at Preston. I used to get on Preston. I said he was like oh well, you know, I didn't have much money. That's why I worked for wages. Like I said, I didn't have much money either, but I blew my credit cards out and bet my games. I didn't go work for wages because I knew it's a different, it's something different. 

01:02:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The moral lines for people are different too. Like perspective is everything. Like perspective is everything Like. For me, I never had an issue with anyone touting or selling anything in the in the space. For me, the issue is like the false marketing tactics. 

01:02:14 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Yes, yes. 

01:02:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, exactly, I don't care if you sell be transparent track on bet stamp, third party verified whatever Like that's not an issue. 

01:02:22 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
That's a very big distinction. That's a huge distinction. As that's a huge distinction. People tell me oh, you're anti-TAP. I was like I've never been anti-TAP, I've been anti. Where's the records? What do you sell? There was at least a few years 2014 to 15, where I would ask, nicely, say, listen, can I see your records? And people get pissy and I'd say, well, wait a minute, I might buy your stuff. What's wrong with you? I'm going to treat me like I'm a regular thing. I mean, I'm not going to buy it, but you know I could potentially, you could potentially have an edge that I'm not aware of in, you know, rugby. I don't know whatever, but you know I got on Dr Bob because they deleted plays. I was foul, I wasn't buying them, but I was looking at their stuff and all the one guy's plays were gone and I said how are you going to go do what everybody else is doing when you have this sterling reputation? And it just made it just. 

01:03:21
It's like you know it was like disheartening, but then, I, you know, I didn't really talk about it to any fans. 

01:03:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
People were just all over me, they were killing me. But you get, the distinction is real. Yeah, and that's the thing that causes so many of these debates is everybody has different opinions on what's morally acceptable or not right. Like I'm very upfront with our audience, everything I do I've always been as transparent as possible. Like I'm a co-owner of bet stamp we're we're a licensed affiliate. We send traffic to Sportsbook. We try to do it with a product that is going to help people as best as humanly possible the Hammer. We take money from Sportsbook. Pinnacle's a sponsor and we're glad that they're a sponsor of the show. We're trying to produce content that is not going to lead people down, you know, like sheep to slaughter type of scenario. 

01:04:10 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Sure, and you said something in one of your pods a while ago I don't know which one about like you know, rec bettors don't have the same problems. They don't have the same issues of getting you know if they're buying 100 or 150 again. 

01:04:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's a lot of those people uh, like, like, so, like to cut you off, shine like you. You know you rip draft kings as an example on here and that's totally fine, because your perspective as a better for what draft kings is going to offer you is is poor, but like draft kings, for most people is a is a great book I agree. 

01:04:48 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Right, right, it's good. 

01:04:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a matter of, it's all a matter of perspective, it's true. 

01:04:53 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I used to. I categorized people better in four groups. Everybody kind of falls in four groups and when I said this on Twitter a few years back, somebody said hey, I used to work, we worked for somebody for sport, and that he goes. That's how we profile people. Was that kind of what you said. You know, diff. We added another group, but it was basically it was pro bettors, serious bettors, or I used to call like rounders, yep, uh, rec bettors, rec plus yep. 

01:05:23
And then recreation, pure recreation, and I thought that the people that followed me were a lot of rec plus people. There were people that you know wanted to bet recreationally, but they also wanted to know hey, I only have one book, where can you know, uh, where can I get better odds? I have a future on Otani and my book's giving me 10, 10 to one. You know, I don't want to find out. Somebody is 17 to 1. That's a rec plus question, and so that pool's definitely small. But I didn't care about selling anything. I figured those are the people I'd like most likely get along with that. 

01:06:03
And then the next tier, which are not pure pros, but people who are serious. They make money but they might, you know, have other jobs, whatever it may be engineers or coding or whatever, and I think those categorizations are fair because their objectives are not all the same. And you know, the sports book is going to want to cater to the largest group, which is that pure wreck. And they're not going to care. They bet $50, 14 parlay, they don't care, they're going to bet it on something else. And the odds even the same day parlays odds are terrible. They're not as bad as Keno and they're not as bad as slots which and they're not as bad as Slots which used to be the old sportsbook model of you know don't get killed, push the parlay cards. 

01:06:55
Yeah, yep, and hopefully they bring somebody with them. You know how many people I knew that were decent sports bettors that used to get killed in craps. You know they couldn't. Good poker players, blackjack card counters they'd lose it all in craps. You know they couldn't. They couldn't. Good poker players, blackjack card counters they, they lose it all in crap. So the casino knows this and um, I don't see an overall problem, I just personally don't like dk because the regulation hurts me yes, I understand although the non-regulation Understood. 

01:07:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I want to before we wrap up here. Shine, I don't mean this offensively, but as someone who's been in the space for as long as you have, and I don't want to make you sound old. You're looking good, as I mentioned. 

01:07:40 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Old is fine. I don't mind being old. 

01:07:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think, as I could tell throughout the course of this podcast and from meeting you in Vegas as well, you've had some experiences along the way, so I think it would be cool if we could get you to share some of those. Whatever you're comfortable with, but let's see where this leads us. So your most significant betting win of all time. 

01:08:05 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
You mean money-wise or the most thing? I was most proud Either one Money-wise, I'll say Money-wise, the tip the buck, you mean with relation to your bankroll at that time. 

01:08:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Sure that actually is fair. Yeah, that's fair Relation to the bankroll. 

01:08:26 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
The Tampa-Oakland Super Bowl. 

01:08:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yep, I had Tampa every way you could bet it. That was a absolute blowout every way. 

01:08:35 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
You could bet it and I bet it. I remember betting it. Uh, somebody had to win by one to five points, five to ten, ten to twenty, twenty. I had every one of them up to like 50, I think I lost 10 plus or whatever yeah. And I remember leading up to it. You know you kind of think, man, I got the wrong side. 

01:08:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Here it's kind of late now. 

01:08:59 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
So it's like you know what I'm going down, I'm going down the ship. It's like. It's like you know a good poker analogy. It's like you have Kings and you know you're in for your entire thing. You're like, and then this guy snap calls. You're like you see, I really have aces. I don't care, I'm not good enough to fold kings, I don't care, I don't I, I just let's do it, let's go. That's kind of what the attitude with the bucks were. And when they uh, they, they won the way they did. It's just they won the way they did. It's just. 

01:09:30
I was like oh, finally Now it seems like my record has been like I get one every three years, exactly right, you know the two on my own, but hey, that was the one I really got. 

01:09:47
It was a good dog, a better team dog. 

01:09:48
When I was younger I had the Reds against the A's For what I kind of touched on when I first started talking, and it wasn't for a lot of money, it was at the time it was for a decent amount and I remember that it's obviously before your time but it's fun to Google, if any of your listeners want to Google. 

01:10:02
I can give you the mindset at the time was oh, they can't lose another game, oh, the A's can't lose another game, oh, we're not going to get swept. I mean I can't put people just chased, they chased and I remember it was 36 to one for the Reds to sweep with with with I think it was the Hilton, las Vegas Hilton, I think at 30, 35, 36 to one. So I remember that, was proud of that. And then I I'm trying to think I think it's too cliche to say I had Holyfield in the 96 fight, because more and more people are saying that they had it. So I stopped telling that story because I think their story is bullshit and I don't want them to think my story is bullshit. 

01:10:50
But if I see a bet bash, I'll tell you the story and you'll decide when we put it on the air. Because it sounds like bullshit and I didn't realize it until somebody told me their story. I'm like that's bullshit, there's no way. But I can. Anybody who knows me knows that I've been. I'm an abnormal, uh boxing fan and uh, I had liked Holyfield for a long time and I said, if they ever fight Holyfield to win and the story is, I'll tell you the book. He took it off the board and I never got paid but, uh, that's okay, I still would have had it. 

01:11:29
I didn't make any money from it, but, um, you know, I was there. I pretend I made money because it's in here, right? Uh, it's in here, it's important, uh, but I think the I also had the eagles. Uh, super bowl 2017 was was pretty big yeah um nick falls, but I I was not one of the people that over, went overboard on mayweather right until it got to five to one. 

01:11:57
Uh, I just I knew we would win, but I just something just didn't fit. Sit right with the whole thing, plus it's boxing, I mean I years ago I had a big bet on Pernod Wetter for years ago, beating Chavez at 93. 

01:12:12
And they called the fight a draw and I said this is what I get. You can't bet boxing unless it's for fun, and this is what goes into my thing. Sometimes I gamble. If I'm betting boxing, I'm gambling. It's just my hunch. It's not really. I don't have any hard numbers that you can take apart. But if you ever want to ask my boxing opinion who can win, I've been decent, but it is just a guess. 

01:12:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean, I strongly disagree with everyone that says that that was the easiest free money of all time. 

01:12:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Me and Johnny have had this debate before. 

01:12:50 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
it's a ridiculous claim for people to make don't you think mayweather should have to fight mcgregor in in mma? 

01:12:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
just to be fair. I mean honestly, I don't even think that that'd be fair, like it wouldn't. 

01:13:02 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Well, the boxing wasn't fair you'll bother me remember I don't know if you remember uh, rainy couture fought james tony yeah, yeah, and you know he beat him in a minute. 

01:13:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm like. 

01:13:12 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Well, now couture has to fight tony yeah, no, I know, I know it's this is bullshit. 

01:13:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
They're honestly two very different sports. 

01:13:19 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
You're gonna give james a chance to whoop his ass a little bit now. 

01:13:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't know, that's just oh no, I I agree, they're, they're honestly significantly different sports. It's very. It's very, very hard for the MMA guy to beat the boxer, and vice versa is nearly impossible, depending on the weight class, especially An MMA local trainer. 

01:13:37 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
he's more of a jiu-jitsu guy. Somebody I respected said years ago he says I could teach Roy Jones to fight MMA to be workable in MMA in probably two years and you could not take anybody in MMA and teach them to box. It's just, it's a more to box overly competitively. 

01:13:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, well, I mean, some guys come up. 

01:13:59 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
McGregor came the closest yeah. 

01:14:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Some guys come up with boxing backgrounds, like they train boxing until they're like 14, 15, and then they'll shift more to MMA. So I guess from that it's not like you're starting from nothing. But I agree, if you're starting from zero, you're in boxing. Well, there's a few boxers. 

01:14:13 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
There's a guy that's from the area he's out of Reading who was actually very good Kermit Cintron, who fought Canelo Alvarez. He was I don't want to call him a Hammond aggro, but he wasn. 

01:14:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And this guy was a wrestler in high school. 

01:14:26 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Like he was a really good wrestler in high school and I remember thinking you could take Cintron and maybe somebody should. Now he's 50. But I mean back then I was like you could take somebody like that. And to your point, john, what McGregor did I think is very underrated. I mean I didn't think he was going to win, but the fact that he just didn't get blown out of there is pretty. You know I'm not saying it wasn't a good value bet. 

01:14:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm definitely not saying that, obviously. You know Floyd was the side he did win. I'm just here, to say that that was the greatest free money in all sports especially given how crazy. Fixed boxing is frequently year in and year out, every single fight. It's like come on, there was. There's just no way. 

01:15:08 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Well, every single fight it's like come on, there was. There's just no way. Well, it's always fixed in the judging and and uh, I don't say fixed. 

01:15:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's all. It's a subjective sport, no. 

01:15:17 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I mean, it's a crazy part of it. Yeah Listen, I've had, I've had eight people rewatch Leonard Hagler and I'm telling you you can't get five, you can't get four people to agree on one side. So that's the nature of boxing. You see what you want to see. You're like oh, I like, I like. You know you see what I mean. It's just, when it's subjective, it's tough to bet on anyway, because anything can happen. And forget even the rigging part if you believe in that. So I'm right on borby, I made a little bit, but people that opened up their bank vaults, they're, they're crazy. 

01:15:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was happy to crazy. I'll be one of the crazy people. Well, I literally parlayed everything I could with mayweather for about a month and a half that's's. 

01:16:07 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I knew somebody did it with Biden over Trump, people that were betting it like it was. That's not my forte. My thing was the Broncos beating the Panthers in the Super Bowl was another big one for me. I had under under every which way, under first under Panther, tottenham. I like that. There's more ways I can. I can win. I don't like the all or nothing. 

01:16:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That is as it is yeah, it was definitely very uncomfortable. I mean I'm gonna preach bankroll management I I thought that was as close to a 100 percent bet it was. Obviously there's always a chance in boxing someone catches someone and knocks them out. 

01:16:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But I would have like I would do the same thing again but honestly it's really tough to make a kelly bet even if it was 99.5, you probably may have still bet too much I, I thought it was 100, I did think no, if it's 100, then you just bet. 

01:17:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Every single thing you have, I literally placed every single bet I made for a month and a half. 

01:17:08 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
You can I know you probably don't know this yeah you may not know this fight, but you can google it. After there was, roy jones once fought venny pazienza. Yeah, venny pazienza moved up to, and I remember they posted an early line of like nine to one or eight to one and I remember thinking I have to go get like. I have to go borrow, borrow like a hundred thousand. I have to get as much money as I can get into this, because if they post eight to one I don't care. 

01:17:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But then you know there's a chance you can twist his ankle yeah, and then you can literally get dq'd for something like it can get you know, it's not you know it can't be a hundred the thing. 

01:17:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The thing with that fight in particular is the legacy of Floyd Mayweather. Right like the whole thing of like, oh you know, you could throw the fight, or whatever. 

01:17:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Floyd mayweather is never, ever, ever throwing a fight for his legacy period and I think that's his legacy was damaged more by fighting all these guys. After 100, I only thought I mean to johnny's point. 

01:18:05 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I only thought something like ankle twist. I've seen. 

01:18:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Of course, when I say 100%, it's never 100%. 

01:18:17 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I saw Gotti broke his hand in the second fight. 

01:18:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Judging referees. Broken hand, ankle, twist, lucky DQ. Honestly, a DQ is also something like again depending on how the judges are. Yeah, you honestly don't know Fair enough. 

01:18:33 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
What if he hits him in the back of the head? They go oh, that's bullshit, it's still a DQ. 

01:18:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And if he couldn't continue, or something then it's yeah, you know what I mean. 

01:18:41 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Yes, yes, so, but I'm glad you won. 

01:18:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't even know what we were. 

01:18:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We were talking about our biggest win, of course. What about biggest losses? Shai, you got to remember one of your biggest losses. 

01:18:54 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
By far my biggest loss was Patriots-Panthers Super. 

01:18:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Bowl. 

01:19:02 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Oh, 32-29, if I recall. Yeah, but I actually had a six and a half. I had a really good number and I had a good money. I didn't play a lot on the money line, which was a mistake, but I I thought they were going to kill the Panthers. Panthers played a good game against the Eagles that year. The Eagles were were severely deficient and I thought they I didn't think they were gonna. I thought I had the best defense. I think you can look back. I think patriots were top five defense that year, if not top three yeah I just said. 

01:19:38
I said they're gonna absolutely kill this team. Last year was was close, blah, blah and uh, if you ever go back and look at the box score I had under. 

01:19:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I had a lot of unders. 

01:19:50 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I had under a bunch of different ways. I had under in every quarter and I hit two of them. 

01:19:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Under Two quarters. 

01:19:57 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Nobody scored in two quarters. Delong didn't throw a completion, he looked like he was deformed. In the first quarter he was one of 10. And I said, oh my God, look at this. I said, look at this. I said look at this. Oh, look at this. I was counting the money and then all of a sudden, you know the roof cave. Then he worked before half. 

01:20:18
He throws an 85 yard touchdown to muhammad yeah that high law, I guess, was thinking about the girls he was gonna go with at the end. I don't know what he was, I don't know what was going on, but it's like. And then now I'm watching it, you know for my life I'm watching. You think oh my god, yeah and then late in that game they get up seven yep and um, I said, wow, I can't, I did all the stress for nothing. 

01:20:46
And then I I remember watching my own eyes new England's defense got retired. You never think you'd see a top, do you get they retired? They go right. You know, right down the field, pro scores, and then that was it. And I just remember thinking, I don't care, I had the right, I, I liked my bet and what are? 

01:21:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
you going to do. 

01:21:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was a mismatch. 

01:21:09 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
That's what I get for playing favorites. No, but that stood out and I remember I had to think for a while about, because a lot of times it's like I have death of a thousand paper cuts. You know I'll play. There's been seasons in baseball I'll play eight, nine hundred games. And you know I'll play. Uh, there's been seasons in baseball I'll play eight, nine hundred games. And you know, see, in those, in the, in that stretch of numbers, you're gonna have a couple. You know one and twelve, of course. So I remember one sunday I had a one in 13. That was not a good that. 

01:21:44
That day didn't feel real great actually that day felt worse than that super bowl because it felt like I was getting you know, I can't lose this game. I lost that game I can't lose this. So uh, but for the one. Now, there was one loss that I didn't lose that much I still lost, but it still irritates me, and that's the uh the patriots ravens. Afs AFC Championship game. 

01:22:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Lee. 

01:22:13 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Evans dropped the catch, lee Evans drops the catch and then they missed the field goal and you know, if you go back and watch that, you know all Flacco has to do is step forward, and it's a first down, I know, and I had the money line, for I actually had made a mistake because they were plus three in the game. If you have three and a half, I think three and a half is right out there, if I remember right and I was like I have the better team. 

01:22:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I felt that way too yeah. 

01:22:43 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I thought I had the better team, and then I think it was a couple years after that, it was the Ray. When they went up there in a divisional game and they just played Ravens, just played their asses off and they were up 14-3. Ray Rice was and they were plus seven that game and I had a lot on the money line and Brady came back. Those games stuck out, mike, because it's like I spent a lot of time trying to beat up Brady, I feel, in the playoffs. Sometimes I would correct people on Twitter because his regular season overall Brady is plus if you just played him. 

01:23:19
By a mile yeah, by a mile. But you know his playoffs for a while were 50-50, and I had a lot of the ones against him just because I thought it was too much. Too much Brady, too much, you know, and you know they were throwing sevens at a really good Ravens team. The irony is the Ravens won the Super Bowl the next year and I think the team wasn't as good. 

01:23:44
I don't remember well enough, but yeah, the defense was better the year before by numbers, like the numbers that I look at. I think most remember well enough but yeah, the defense was better the year before by numbers. I like the numbers that I look at. I think most of the people they may have Ray Lewis, a year older, ed. 

01:23:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Reed. 

01:24:01 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Kind of splitting hairs a little bit, but that was. I couldn't believe what I was watching. Yeah, I hear you. How did that get in there't? 

01:24:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
believe what I was watching. Yeah, I hear you. 

01:24:10 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
How did that get in there? 

01:24:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know it's crazy. Um, appreciate your time today, Shine. Uh, we're going to close it off with with the same closing question. We asked to every single one of our guests when they're on here If you could go back five years and talk to a previous version of yourself, what advice would you give to your former self? 

01:24:31 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
About betting. 

01:24:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Anything you want. 

01:24:33 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Oh, I can't go that deep. 

01:24:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Betting's all I know, Well. 

01:24:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Shine's already going back 35 years. I tell them the goal man. We're only asking for five. 

01:24:44 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
Well, I don't want to ruin the entertainment because I had some really bad things happen in the last five years, so I'll I'll keep it to what I would tell my gambling self. I probably have to go back. I don't think I've learned that much in five years. I'm trying to think. 

01:25:06
Oh yeah, probably don't. I'd probably tell myself don't carry, don't overvalue what I think is an edge after the beginning of the season in college basketball or NBA, because I think it's true and it's good advice to let people know what worked this year may not work next year. There's a lot of smart people out there betting. 

01:25:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think that's what it does. 

01:25:32 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
I think it's good to just you know if you can. I don't want you to second guess yourself either, but I think you have to. Really don't stop working at what you think, because I think at some point you know I think you might've run into it too. 

01:25:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You say you lose your edge. 

01:25:49 - Shine the Professor (Guest)
But I think it's. It's just about. You don't want to put that much back time in it. I'm like, oh, that'll, that'll work, it's my money. And then you find out. 

01:25:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, everyone. This has been professor shine, episode one oh, seven of circles off. You can find them at Twitter at professor shine. Thank you very much for joining, for everybody at home. Please absolutely mash that subscribe button. There's no exception. Stop what you're doing right now. Go hit a like, hit the sub. We'll see you all next week. Peace, outro Music.