00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off, we're going to talk about the suspensions in the NFL and whether or not NFL players should be able to bet on their own games or even other sports. On top of that, we're about one month away from Bet Bash at Circa in Las Vegas. We'll break down the itinerary and maybe what we would have done differently and what we think we're going to enjoy the most, plus our plus EV and minus EV plays of the week. All that and more circles off starts now. Come on, let's go. Welcome to circles off, episode number 109, right here on the hammer betting network, rob pazola, joined by johnny from betstamp how are things, rob? 

00:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
we've done 108 episodes in the books. This will be 109. How are you about it? Did you think we'd get this far? I did. 

00:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm very candid with, as we always are in the show with the audience here. There was a point around like 80 where I'm like I don't know how we're going to keep keep this going and obviously anyone who's been listening to since the beginning we made a catastrophic mistake for like the first 10 episodes where we did like these full educational episodes where we got to a point of, like man, there's just not enough topics to keep doing one hour episodes on and we burned through a lot of them. So we started pivoting to guests and then we did like tweets that trigger us, episodes q a. We got to a point around 80 where I'm like how are we going to keep this going? We got through it and now I have like a million ideas like I think we're gonna. We're gonna hit like 250 easy, okay, I'm glad to hear that. 

01:36
Yeah, if for those of you don't know, I don't know I don't know that they're good ideas, but you know we've introduced some new stuff the plus ev, minus ev oh, I got my. 

01:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I got mine locked and loaded for today. 

01:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So do I. I was very triggered by something. 

01:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, so for those of you who don't know, um, I I used to listen to a lot of podcasts. I still do listen to a lot of podcasts. Um, previously I used to listen to a lot of gambling ones, and Rob actually never used to listen to those. So one day I'm obviously we're we're buddies. I think we might've been golfing a couple of rounds and we're like, hey, we got to start a podcast. We're like none of these podcasts out there right now are doing like a mix between sharp content and like keeping it super entertaining and they're not high produced. So if we actually do something, we'll start it off with whatever audio. Actually get some real video, do some stuff. We got a chance to make a splash. Actually get some real video, do some stuff. We got a chance to make a splash. 

02:25
I will say this 108 episodes is a lot. I don't even I just saw like Joe Rogan got like 3,000. Obviously it's over a number of years, but this is for anyone out there who has a podcast. You'll understand the struggle. But, holy shit, just gives you a newfound respect for people who have gotten like 300, 500, 000 episodes and obviously you know hundreds of thousands of views more than than we're getting on on a daily basis. But wow, congrats, we made it. I didn't even really stop and think about it at 100, but 109 I'm appreciating it. 

03:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know if you remember this, but I made you put together a powerpoint deck for me on of we didn't. We didn't know if you remember this, but I made you put together a PowerPoint deck for me. We didn't know it was Circles Off. At that time it was under the working name which we used for episode one, which was the add-ons podcast, add-ons, add-ons with Rob and Johnny, which has been used by like 48 different people. So we just like scrapped that and we came up with circles off and, honestly, like it's funny the way that it all worked out, because circles off stemmed from is like a pinnacle thing specifically, not just like pinnacles, the only one that removes circles, but that's. You know who we were betting with and of course they're now our sponsor pinnacle, now available to bettors in ontario. 

03:44
Find out what professional bettors have known for decades. Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19 plus, not available to those in the US and, of course, please play responsibly. But I remember I made you put together a PowerPoint deck. I probably still have it. You like pitched me the idea. 

04:01
You're like okay, listen, like the first half of every episode is going to be like some education, like high level education thing, and the second half is going to be like some actionable, like how to to bet nhl first periods or yeah, that that died quickly that died it was a good idea in principle, but then you just start doing them and you're like, no, this, this is not sustainable, but we adapt. 

04:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We adapt as always, and we will continue. The way the show is now will probably be way different than how it'll be for episode 300, if we do get there I went back recently and watched, I believe, our first video episode. 

04:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I could be wrong, but I believe it was episode 39 and it was with adam churnoff as our guest and I watched that episode and it looks like we recorded it in 1998. I know the quality was terrible. Was it zach? It was zach. 

04:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm not blaming zach, by the way it just seems like he is, but no but like just the evolution in a year. 

05:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like, look, look at our old channel of like we're zach scrolling through it right now. I mean, I did some educational short videos. How did we had big cheds on, remember? Oh my god, cheds, cheds. But like, if you just hover over one of those episodes and you like look at it, it's, it's completely different and that's one year ago, man, that's, oh, that's a ago. 

05:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That is nuts. We've come a long way. This was on the BetStamp channel. It wasn't even called Circles. Off, it's true, you know what we do need to do and maybe we get some feedback from the listeners here. When we used to put the descriptions out for the podcast, I used to make them myself and I'm not that creative. I used to just put, like Adam Chernoff joins for a discussion. Yeah, we've kept that tradition. Yeah, but I see other podcasts. They hammer clickbait stuff. 

05:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We do some clickbait stuff on YouTube, but not in audio form, so anyone who watches on YouTube, the episode titles are often different, yeah they're always different. Yeah. 

06:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Because we catch the algo, as that guy pointed out. 

06:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I yeah, they're always different. Yeah, because we catch the algo, as that guy pointed out. I mean, there was one that was like professional sports are fixed. 

06:09 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, yeah, I did do that, I tried to find it, but yeah, it's somewhere in there. 

06:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We do click like we look at what are popular keywords on YouTube. We're trying to grow a business here and get some views Crazy. 

06:21 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Ontario lottery syndicate revenge story. 

06:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, that was honestly not even a bad. That was a great episode. 

06:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, I highly recommend but like the simon hunter episode is our, our most viewed episode. A lot of that just got caught in, like the, the youtube algo. It's not like it's professional. Better fake professional sports, better gets exposed, or something like that. Right, that, just exactly if you look at the particular analytics for that episode. 

06:48
The watch time on that is actually much lower than our other episodes, but it has more views because it just got caught in like the youtube algo and a bunch of people who never saw it before watched it. Our average watch time is actually like absurdly high for a channel on this channel relative to, like industry standard, but that episode was much lower because I think a bunch of people found that like what the hell is this? I don't know anything about this, but we appreciate everyone for listening. 

07:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Today show wouldn't be the same if we didn't have, uh, the support number nine. 

07:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Tradition number nine yeah, one of your couple most underrated players of all time is a number nine. 

07:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
One of my most underrated. Yeah, you would argue that he's like. I'll say who it is right now. Yeah, is he by chance the most underpaid player in the history of his position? That would be the guy. All right, justin Tucker, number nine kicker on the Ravens. An absolute steal that Baltimore has him as a kicker. I've said this before. Why would you not have the best kicker? It's such an important position in the NFL and you can just get a kicker. You paid $10 million. You're being grossly paid as the highest kicker needs to be done. 

07:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It seems like a lot of people who have aspirations to play soccer, like they get us, you know, scholarships or whatever. Whatever, they might as well just start kicking a football and just become the best at that craft. It's way more likely that they're going to get paid, like how many people are are kicking in the like, honestly like a lot in college, but they don't have the. 

08:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know if you can make the nfl because some kickers in college are like really consistent and good, but they can only hit from like 43 to 44 yards. You're never going to make the NFL if you can't hit at least from 55. So realistically, there's two things you need ability to hit with a big boot, hit from 60, sometimes hit from 55, hit from 50 and under should be a guarantee. If you can do that, you're the best kicker in the league. You're so valuable to a team You're adding, so you're literally adding wins. 

08:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, like I don't want to, I don't want to put down kickers, right, but there's a lot of professional athletes where, like me, or you, me, you, zach, anyone whatever, can like train their entire life to play that sport. And I couldn't be a professional athlete in that sport yeah, tennis, golf, stuff like that, right, but I'm pretty sure, like anybody can train hard to be a kicker and can get to that level, like I strongly feel that Like, think about just like a daily, like regimen in terms of like leg weights. So you're saying, if you started at the age of like five and you terms of like like weights. 

09:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So you're saying, if you started at the age of like five and like this, I'm going to make this kid a kicker, my kid, I'm going to train him. And then he eventually grows older and wants to just be a kicker and grinds it out. 

09:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, I may, maybe I might be talking about out of my ass here, but I feel like that's more of a repeatable like you have, you have to be, you have to be, you have to have some semblance of athleticism. Right, like Darren Revell is not going to be a kicker, you can throw him in there. That's all I could think of when I think of someone who's definitely not an athlete. For people who've seen the 40-yard dash, you know exactly what I'm talking about. But he's not going to be a kicker. But for most people I think you just put them on. Like even as a teenager, right, it's like okay, you know, start doing some weights, you know, build up those legs, build up that core, kick the ball for like four hours a day how much does like clutch gene play into this, though? 

10:19 - Zack Phillips (Other)
some people just have it, some people don't I think that. 

10:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think, though, that comes with like just confidence right, like if you, if you practice that over and over, and over and over, you can be very confident in yourself. I think I think the guys that just like fall off a cliff. It's like they lose confidence, yeah. 

10:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair enough, who else? Who else we have for number nine? 

10:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, okay, drew Brees is the most famous number A lot of quarterbacks, a lot of QBs. Palmer, stafford. 

10:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Romo, romo, your boy Burrow, of course, mr Hockey. 

10:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Mr Hockey Gordie Howe. 

10:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Mike Medano. 

10:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He was one of the most underrated players Nicholas Hagman, nicholas Hagman, tony Parker was a number nine in the NBA. 

11:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Paul Correa off the floor on the board. 

11:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Paul Correa, who was the guy that absolutely laid out Scott Stevens, One of the greatest stories in history. 

11:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Did Correa come back in that game? Paul Correa, he cut across the ice, he passed it off. It was a complete blindside hit. Today, the swing would have been a three-game suspension minimum. 

11:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Three-game. That guy would have been kicked out of the league. 

11:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Scott stevens absolutely lights him up as he's cutting across about to enter the blue line. He passed it off already, though it's like three seconds late. Korea instantly knocked out like unconscious he's on the floor. 

11:33 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Also throw into this is when he's got the big visor that like goes over your mouth and it's, and he fogged up he breathes, so he's actually unconscious on the floor. 

11:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's a small guy. For those you don't know, paul korea, on the mighty ducks at the time. He he, like you, can see the point at which he comes back into consciousness. He takes a huge, deep breath out. His visor fogs up. Trainers are all out. Obviously, in today's game he would have been in what, whatever? 

11:59 - Zack Phillips (Other)
concussion protocol one billion percent. 

12:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He goes to the dressing room. He comes out again later in the game, takes a puck, pass off the wing, comes down and puts a nice snipe over the shoulder of Marty Brodeur one of the best goalies of all time. This was in the Stanley Cup final playoffs. And then the commentator with an obviously epic call Off the floor on the board Paul Correa. That was actually crazy, that guy. And then after yeah, like Zach said, he had said he doesn't even remember scoring the goal. He doesn't even remember that. He came back in the game and scored Nuts. 

12:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know, listen again, I haven't played pro sports, but I've played with players that were definitely concussed in a game and continued playing and it's the same thing. It's just like they have no memory of the situation or how it happened. And they eventually figured it out. One of the guys one year we won a soccer finals in penalty kicks and the guy who scored the winner got a concussion in the game. He just went up for a header, went down on the ground. He got up like by himself within 20 seconds, but he literally could not remember any of the game up until that point and he scored the winning penalty kick. 

13:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Does he remember the winner? He does Okay, so then that's all good. Then we took him to the hospital right afterwards. Yeah, I know, it's a different game now. 

13:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's a good player. You obviously couldn't just do the finals. 

13:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So they fixed up a lot of those Last week. You forgot. I see Zach trying to pull up a guy here the Rocket. Richard, obviously. 

13:33
Yeah, I'm not going to name every player of all time, of course you know what I will say this we're going to name Rocket Richard because he has the Rocket Richard trophy for the most goals, but we actually blundered last week. We got to make do Number eight. We did forget to mention probably the greatest, if not arguably the greatest, goal scorer in NHL history, alex Ovechkin. We didn't even give him a name. That's embarrassing. We'll rectify that, ovi. Sorry about that, buddy Great eight. 

14:00 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Just didn't come to me at the time. 

14:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The great 8. It was definitely pointed out in the comments on YouTube, as it often is whenever we miss someone of note. 

14:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You see that guy's CLV flow chart that he made. I was going to get to that. So at Professor042 on Twitter, professor Chuck Finley. So last week we kind of just put out a challenge to people out there. Not even a challenge, but if you were interested in creating some sort of flowchart for the CLV debate, put one together. Boy, did I not expect what we received in the flowchart of should I care about CLV? I mean, anyone who's seen the tout flowchart I was referring to, that Spreger put together. This is very basic. It took me about an hour to consume this in its entirety. I do appreciate the work. It's actually very thorough and makes a lot of sense. Like I was trying to poke holes in it and I really couldn't. Overall it is thorough, but this guy was probably a pretty shitty employee last week. 

15:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I would say If he does have a full-time job. Yeah, no, I mean, this thing was not. This isn't even a day of work, actually, because you might be able to put a first draft on a day, but you can tell by the level of detail which kudos to you, buddy. You came back to this after sleeping on it one night for sure, and made some improvements, because this is jam-packed with data. Very thorough. I appreciate the effort. Obviously, check it out, um maybe we like the description zach will toss a link there. 

15:33
Um, read it through and if you can poke any holes, what I think we're going to do is we're going to, we're going to, we'll let people critique it and then and I'm sure those are on twitter. 

15:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's going to be some critiques. 

15:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And once those are in, we'll break it down on a future episode, whether that's next week or a future week in the upcoming months 36.5K views. 

15:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know what this guy is a professor in, or if he actually is a professor. 

15:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, not a professor. Look at his thing. 

15:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What's his bio say this is the type of failed COVID KBO. 

16:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So he's an engineer, so whatever firm or company he's at got no productivity for the two days at which he was working on this. However, we got the productivity. The gambling community got the productivity. Professor Chuck Finley, we respect you for that. 

16:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was about to say that I would. I'd love for this guy to be like my project manager. Like you could tell by the thoroughness that, like, whatever project you put this guy on, he's going to get down to business and like fully plan it from start to finish. It's not how. 

16:31 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I do things. Unless he hears someone on a podcast ask for a CLV flow, Then it's over, then productivity goes down completely. 

16:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Also big in sports in this past week more gambling accusations not even accusations, uh admissions, I would say so. Isaiah rogers and rashad berry of the indianapolis colts, uh free agent demetrius taylor as well, suspended indefinitely through at least the entire season for betting on nfl games last season and rogers got cut as well. 

17:00
Yeah, the colts cut rogers and Barry as a consequence of their suspensions. Tennessee Titans offensive tackle Nicholas Petit-Ferrer he was suspended six games. That was for betting on other sports While in the facility, while in the Titans facility. So all those suspensions came down at once. That's now 11 players that have been suspended for violating the NFL's gambling policy since 2018. The NFL's done an investigation. They say there's no evidence of any game manipulation, match fixing or whatever. 

17:34
I looked at I didn't look at all of the individual bets, but apparently Rodgers is betting like $20 to $50 a play, threw down a $1,000 prop bet on the over on rushing yards by one of the Colts running backs, which he won. But the NFL has basically, you know, keyed in on some specific things and there's like the six rules key rules of the gambling policy that David Purdom put in his article for ESPN. But essentially they are don't bet on the NFL, don't gamble at your team facility while traveling for a road game or staying at a team hotel. Don't have someone bet for you or on your behalf. Don't share inside information from the team. Don't enter a sportsbook during the NFL playing season and don't play daily fantasy football. That's basically what the NFL is cracking down on Now. It's caused a shitstorm in both like not just the gambling community, but like the regular NFL community, and I've seen all sorts of takes on this from. This is ridiculous. You know, let the guy bet whatever to. There shouldn't be any betting. You should be able to bet on other sports that aren't the league that you're playing in. 

18:57
I have a pretty strong opinion on this. I don't want to sound like a communist or anything like this, but I think that professional athletes should not be able to bet on any sport period zero. Why? Any sport like okay. So at the end of the day, what this comes down to is we're now in this era of regulated gaming. I think the biggest threat and risk to that is if it's widely believed that any sporting events are fixed. We're almost. It's not widely believed, by the way, in any stretch of the imagination right now, but we already see those talks right On Twitter. This is fixed. This is that it's been going on forever, but to me, that is the biggest risk for regulated sports betting period. 

19:48
So when people are like the integrity of the game, the integrity of the game, I actually firmly believe that the minute somebody thinks or watches a play in the nfl, in major league baseball, whatever, and they're like this is something's wrong here or whatever. And then you know that players can bet in some capacity. There's too much like open to interpretation. The mind starts spinning altogether. I flat out think if you're a professional athlete, you're being compensated solid amounts in every major league. Just don't bet Like, just don't. You shouldn't be like and listen. 

20:28
If I was in the position of being a professional athlete, it would I probably it would suck for me if I couldn't bet on pro sports or whatever. But like, that's just part of the job. With a lot of jobs there come there's like stipulations for working in that environment or in that industry and this one, like again, I think the integrity is paramount. So I don't want to be like the no fun guy, but like anything where it's like you can do this, you can't do this, you can do this, you can't do that. Now, if somebody does something that they are legally able to do, it's still in the betting space. There's still like this cloud of like what if you know this guy is betting baseball? Like what if he threw one NFL bet in there? It just allows for people's minds to spin. 

21:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think I agree with half of what you said. So, in terms of like being able to bet on your own sport, it's just so clearly not proper to be able to do that. And for people who say like, well, why can't I bet on my team to win, it's like just leave it out of the game. Because, look at so, for example, the news came out about a couple of weeks ago that said, a Colts player it wasn't mentioned that I was Isaiah Rogers that a Colts player bet on games involving the Colts Yep. And then what happened? On Twitter, the most viral tweet was the last game of the season Michael Pittman dropping a pass that seemingly was an easy pass to catch that he dropped by mistake, by accident Drops happen. Pass that seemingly was an easy pass to catch that he dropped by mistake, by accident, drops happen. And said imagine it was michael pitman who had the under and dropped this pass and that. And it blew up and people like wow, wow, wow. It's like a wasn't even pitman, it wasn't even him. But that's where people's minds go. So what I, what I truly believe here is there's no room for that to be in the game, because the game right now is being fueled by gambling. Rob talked about this multiple episodes ago, where he went on one of his most epic rants of all time not that many people care about the nfl unless you're playing fantasy or have some sort of like bet on it or pool or fantasy sports. So if we're going to now say like the integrity of that can be called into question, you got to just nix that from the game. Not to mention if you start opening the door like, oh, you can bet on you can only bet on your team's player. Props for overs, not unders, because you don't want them to tank. It's like you can fudge anything. Even the over under the game can be, you know, impacted by a specific player who's going to win the game. 

23:03
Typically, you would like to think that these players would be making enough money that they're not going to throw a win, but does that mean they're not going to throw a cover for a 19.5-point favorite, first versus last place team? No real reason. You can get down serious money on that. That trumps what that is going to be significantly more than what these players are going to be making in that single game. So therefore, if you could make them over a million dollars on a single game and blow a cover, yeah, which doesn't even impact your team. You might actually be willing to do that. 

23:33
So, all in, like I'm against nfl players betting on the nfl or, for that matter, any football league, any same sport league, right. But once you then go ahead and be like, oh, they can't bet on, like basketball, now I think that's honestly a little much because they're actually not playing in that game. So you can say, oh, but he went to college with this guy who was on the team, yeah, but so does that guy's buddies, who can bet legally yeah. So, all in, I think they should be able to bet on other sports In terms of whether they can bet in the arena or not. That's more of a policy from your team. That's like, hey, when you're on facility, we don't want you betting. So at the end of the day, that's like a rule that your employer dropped, you broke it, you got to pay the penalty. Is that stupid? 

24:20 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah. 

24:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Is it stupid that you can bet here? You can't bet in this room, but I can walk out that door, place my bed and that's fine. Yeah, yes. But also, you know you can't smoke in the non-smoking area right, walk over the smoking area, you could smoke like it's. I feel like that's pretty widely accepted at this point yeah. 

24:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So listen, I, I mean I could get with. Okay, you don't bet on your own sport, you can bet on others. To me, it's just a sad state of like in general where people just draw conclusions. They basically just stretch the truth and mold it into. So I still think it inevitably leads to a play happening in a sport. Someone drops a pass and we know that those players can't bet on the NFL. But it's like well, we know that this guy's a better, we know he's bet on the MLB before. Who's to say that he's not betting on the NFL type? 

25:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
of situation. So then it calls into question as well yeah, if the leagues weren't completely, like, honestly dependent on gambling now and on gambling partnerships as well, then I would say like whatever, if gambling wasn't regulated, it would almost be whatever, and I'm not saying it's going to ruin the league, it'd probably be fine. Just like I understand it from a business perspective, why you're not allowed to bet on the sport well. 

25:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I get it from a player perspective too, where they're like well, these are, these, are our sponsors like that? We're taking money from all these sports books to grow the league. How can we not get involved in this? How can we not be able to? And I understand that. But it's at a higher level again, to me, if I'm running the league, if I'm Goodell, the integrity is actually I know it's lame because we hear it thrown around in like a lot of cases that don't actually make sense a lot of times right, but the integrity of the league is actually the most important. When you're involved with gambling partners, you cannot have people who think on a weekly basis they're getting screwed over because there's players who are betting on the game. So for me, you take the hardest stance and I don't feel bad for play Like. You're a professional football player who makes millions of like. 

26:26
Do I feel bad that calvin ridley missed an entire year? No, I don't. Candidly, he's an idiot. I'm sorry. I love calvin ridley, I'd love to see him play, but there are rules that are in place and you cannot be dumb enough to violate those rules. So from a player perspective, zero sympathy, even though it's nothing. It's like 20 and 50. No, it's. 

26:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's harsh, but it's so harsh of a suspension to miss a year for that. But I think that just shows the severity of how much they take this like. I don't obviously, by the way, if you're telling me like, do I believe someone should be suspended for a year for betting 10 bucks on a game? Like it seems stupid, as can be, but at the end of the day, like the integrity of the game is more important than that, so they have to. Just, I guess it's almost in a sense of like you're getting paid this much money, in part because the league has this much viewership, which in part is because people bet and wager on this league. That actually is driving the money that you make Right. 

27:20
So if, for whatever reason, you are putting it at risk to now actually cost us gambling deals or whatever reason, any gaming commission says, like the UFC, for example, in Ontario, where they said, hey, there was UFC match-fixing stuff with James Krause where he was giving out fixed info, we don't believe the integrity of these fights is safe. We don't want people in Ontario to be able to bet on this and they nix it for the entire market, which costs now viewership and revenue. So if they believe that there's a chance that that could happen in the nfl. They do have to kind of drop the hammer to make sure that doesn't happen and I respect that and I get it. But it is what it is also like. These guys are gambling on nfl. Literally no one has got caught gambling from a buddy placing a bet for them. They've all got caught gambling on their own phone app. It's literally insanity. Right now, this is like they're going and betting 20 bucks on their own app. 

28:17
This is going to get caught. The, the gambling partner, has a legal responsibility to report this to the league, even if they didn't want, even if they didn't believe it. There it's going to a report that you have to KYC your account, you have to submit your ID. They're going to know you're Calvin Ridley and then you bet the thing. And then they're going to know you bet on a four-game NFL parlay with the Falcons in it. Insane. 

28:37 - Zack Phillips (Other)
How dumb are these guys too, to do it after Calvin Ridley got the suspension last year. 

28:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This on going for further time. Like the end of the day, you you have to be, especially if you're making large sums of money. 

28:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
They're all making enough money that they shouldn't be betting. 

28:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They shouldn't be betting 20, I agree, risking that but if you're making large sums of money, like you have to know what the rules are and adhere to them. Plain and simple, simple. It's the same as like Josh Gordon smoking weed. Back in the day, the rule, in my opinion, was stupid. Like weed as a performance enhancing drug, like it was starting to get legalized in spots. I agree that, like it's not a performance enhancing drug, guess what? It's the rule of the league. You can't just go smoke weed and expect no consequences to happen and people that always get in, like you know, josh Gordon again suspended. What's the league doing? It's like they're upholding their rules, period. You're in violation of the rules. Is the rule stupid? Yes, you know they should work towards change. 

29:43
Josh Gordon should have been working towards change with other members of the league, the nfl players association, saying like we need this rule gone. It doesn't make any sense anymore. But you, you can't just you can't just like completely undermine the rules whatsoever and not have consequences. And again you, you brought up the point of I don't remember what episode it was, but I talked about how the nfl is very reliant on gambling. They need to take this very seriously and candidly. If it were me, I would not allow players to bet period period on anything that a sportsbook regulated sportsbook offers, until they're retired. That's it. You're out of the league, that's fine, get out, you can do whatever you want, but when you're in the league, you can't. 

30:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I saw a lot of things under this one where they were claiming well, he bet an over, so that at least is not an under. It can't be bad, it can't be damaging the integrity, but it actually can. 

30:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not saying that this happened and it's only a $1,000 bet for Isaiah Rogers. So let's say he bet a Jonathan Taylor over on rushing yards or something like that. Right, who's to say that at some point in the game Isaiah Rogers doesn't just go over to his offensive coordinator and say, hey, man, like you know, their defense is like it. Look like we can run the ball. I'm not saying that the OC would listen to him or whatever, but there's a possible. He's on the sideline. A player on the sideline could have influence over other players, over the coaching staff. Who's to say that he doesn't get involved in the situation? 

31:16
Now, this is very far-fetched. I'm not saying it happened. The likelihood that this would happen is very small. But then by doing that you're technically influencing the game and how it's playing out, the total of the game. The side other props, everything. So by betting on something that you're on the field in, you can have an influence on the sidelines. We've played sports right. You say things to the coach. You say like depending on the coach, they might take that to heart, some might ignore it, but there's the possibility that it can happen. 

31:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So let me also give you guys another example here. So let's say all the info we were given at the time was or at least at the time of this recording all the info we know is that he bet on a colts running back over on his rushing yards and he won the bet okay. So a lot of people assume all you bet jonathan taylor over maybe 75 yards. How is he going to impact that that? It could literally be as simple as this. There was a few games last year where Jonathan Taylor was out. In the first game, jonathan Taylor's injured. Two totals come out, maybe three. One's going to be for Naeem Hines, who's the guy who gets the touches in addition to Jonathan Taylor, more of a pass catching back Rodgers may be at the walkthrough and realize, hey, naeem Hines's role is not changing. What they did? They grabbed deon jackson off the bench, they put him in. He's this guy's gonna get 16 carries tomorrow. I will bet I deon jackson over. 

32:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It doesn't have to be like. 

32:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's the equivalent of having inside info yeah and and, by the way, like it's not I'm not saying that, that's, that's even like a bad thing to do, like if I had, if I had read up. Oh, they're going to give more carries to jackson. I'm allowed to bet that as a better, but for someone on the team, just call so many things into question. Then on on influence, the. The only other argument I've found in this regard that I actually think is kind of it's kind of a cool argument is people have said well, if they're not allowed to bet on themselves to perform, then why are they allowed to have performance bonuses, incentives for the the season? 

33:14
So, so, technically you are, a lot of players are actually betting on themselves, especially in deals where you have like low guaranteed money, high incentive bonuses. 

33:22
So it's like you have 71 receptions this year, you get an extra million. You have 81, you get this year, you get an extra million, you have 81, you get 2 million, 91, 3 million, and a lot of players will have like those type of incentives. So with that argument I was like you know what that actually makes a ton of sense and there's probably like a good case to be had to either to potentially remove those out of the game Because it's like in the last game you know incentive week, how it is with betting Like Gronkowski is probably going to get seven catches on the nose because like you need seven to get an extra million dollar bonus and Brady was going to get it to him that one year. And then you heard in the mic'd up he went over to Brady and said hey, tom, I need one more for my bonus. He's like let's get you that one more Right, so realistically, like that's a form of gambling. 

34:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's a fair argument. Fair argument, I completely agree. I mean, listen, it's very convoluted. I can totally understand why an average fan would be like. This is ridiculous. This guy's mostly making $20, $50 bets Like what are we doing here? But there's so much more at stake and at play and you can't just you can be sympathetic to the player and be like he's not doing anything. That's harmful, but it's always going to. There's always going to be some conspiracy theorist man of the library guy out there. That's going to be like you know he's betting on the games, who knows what else he's betting on? Who else? What other people are like it. 

34:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It causes the crazy to get crazier and you don't want that to happen yeah, and also one additional thing I want to mention before I move on to the last topic is, like, blindly just following the rules that you don't believe in, I don't. I don't necessarily support that overall, just from like an ideology. Um. So for people to say like oh, I don't believe in I don't, I don't necessarily support that overall, just from like an ideology. Um. So for people to say like, oh, I don't believe in this rule, like this is stupid, I shouldn't be doing this. Like I, I respect, I respect. 

35:16
Like if someone's like, oh, I, I, I smoke weed because I don't feel like it's harmful and whatever, yeah. But at the end of the day, I think you really do have to look at this from a standpoint of where the money is coming from and realize that from the gambling specific like you, this makes financial business sense that the players should not be able to bet on the games. It's not some random ass rule Like, for example, the marijuana rule, which didn't really have an impact on anyone and was later abolished. Yep, agree with you. 

35:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Topic number two Today is July 6th. Just over a month from now, we have Bet Bash at the Circa in Las Vegas, August 8th to 11th. 

35:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Is it called the Circa? 

36:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, the Circa At Circa, At Circa At Circa, thank you. This year, bet Bash is inducting the first Sports Gambling Hall of Fame class. It includes Billy Walters and Roxy Roxborough, who I got to meet last year. Four open bars, team events. There's some networking. I mean, generally speaking, it was just good times last year. Tickets available at betbashco. 

36:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This podcast is sponsored by betbashco. This podcast is sponsored by betbashco. Spanky threatened me. Did we get a sponsor? I'm kidding Spank. Of course we're going to plug a thing. Are you going to be there, rob? I am going to be there. 

36:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm going to try to do this objectively, okay. So Spanky's a friend. I hit him up beforehand, I let him know, taking a look at the itinerary for the first time in full here, and I'm going to give my thoughts on what I think is something to really look forward to and maybe what I would have changed Potentially going into this year's conference. 

37:03 - Zack Phillips (Other)
So so Johnny hasn't looked at this yet. 

37:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's finding this all in real time. I scrubbed through it real quick, but I haven't looked in detail, so I'm happy to give my thoughts in real time. 

37:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, so we got a Tuesday to Friday event, but this is really Tuesday to Saturday. 

37:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But is Tuesday even an event. I don't think it's Tuesday. 

37:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Last year was like and this will provide context for anyone who's new this year, has not gone to one of these before but like the opening night cocktail party last year, in my opinion it was just a quick registration. It was like go pick up your you know whatever they're called lanyard and identity tag for for the week, see who else is there. But candidly speaking, I think most people just kind of like, yeah, went there, registered and then, uh, went off. Is it open bar? It is open bar in brackets, so that might change things this year. That, right away, is a nice way for you to get, you know, a little bit tipsy before, potentially, you do like a dinner. I think we're going to be doing a hammer betting network dinner on the Tuesday night with some of our staff. But overall, tuesday's like the day to get in and I would say, you know, if you had a long flight or you're not feeling great, probably want to get like some sleep on Tuesday, because it is pretty hectic the rest of the week and you're going to be awake a lot the Wednesday, and especially because the morning event on the Wednesday is the speed networking event. So I'll speak from experience on the speed networking event. You weren't there last year, so I'll be there this year. Yeah, I think this is very hit or miss for a lot of people. Personally, it was a huge hit for me Now, without coming across like a complete jackass here, which is what I'm going to do anyways, most of the people at the Speed Networking event already knew me, which made it easier to like break the ice, so to speak. 

39:05
It wasn't. There was no awkward conversations, it wasn't like and no one I sat down with, it was like just this awkward silence. For five minutes, I think I met with 12 different people and I still talked to eight of them in some capacity, whether that was people who wanted to work together from a betting perspective, whether that was people who could provide services to Betstamp or the Hammer, whether that was people who were, let's even say, financial advisors, who maybe I don't use their services, but I still talk with them pretty regularly. I thought this was a really well done event. You do need to be somewhat social and it'll take you out to your comfort zone a bit, but this is the ultimate to like and the way it was was done. I was paired with people that were just like, really interesting to talk with, but I know a lot of people didn't really enjoy this last year either. But to to me, this is where some of the biggest value in bet bash comes from so you're in. 

40:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Are you going to be in for what? Speed networking? Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, that's like one of the main things for for this, of course, yeah, the only thing I'm honestly I might be out for is the scavenger hunt. We'll talk about that okay, okay. 

40:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So speed networking in the morning, uh, evening is another open bar. He really went for it on the open bars this year. I mean I think it's a good move, honestly I think it's a good move. That's at bar canada, which is at the d right down the street from circa um thursday. So the problem is my opinion. Already here I see stuff that I so like. The open bars before morning events makes the morning event skippable. 

40:54 - Zack Phillips (Other)
You know what I mean no doubt it's every single night by the way. 

40:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's what I'm saying. Like it, I get it. I get why you want to do it, but you now offer an open bar to a bunch of degenerates and then say like, hey, get up next morning to go do a scavenger hunt in downtown Las Vegas I don't know what the attendance is gonna look like for that 20K in prizes. I don't wanna dismiss 20K in prizes For me. If I'm hungover that ain't gonna get me out of bed. 

41:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Tell you right now how many K in prizes would get you out of bed. 

41:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I say a hundred K. Come on, yeah, all right. Well, maybe less. You know how it is right. Think you've been drinking. You wake up the next morning. 

41:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You feel like shit, you don't want to go to a scavenger hunt. 

41:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It doesn't matter how much it is. Honestly, you just might be like fuck, I'm not. It could be a million and you might just be sitting in your bed like I'm not moving today, like I cannot function as a human being. I don't know what this is going to be like. It wasn't on the agenda last year. I'm somewhat interested because I'm a little bit competitive when it comes to this stuff and I'm a good puzzle solver, so like I might do it. 

42:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay, up up next. Are you gonna do the scavenger hunt? Like honestly, probably not, because it's very hard. Just speaking straight, it's hard for me to take off like four days in a row it did not work so man, it's not gonna happen, but I'll see what I can fit in. 

42:22
and also I gotta just like check it with my regular schedule and see what else I already have for those days and what normal stuff. I can't just, like you, you know, take a full week vacay. It's a pretty important time, especially in August, okay, but I will say, I'll be there in Vegas at the time and I'll try to attend as many stuff as I can, as many things as I can. 

42:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We got to pull up the sporting calendar for Thursday, august 10th, so the evening event is Circus Sportsbook and Stadium Swim football watch party, open bar and food included. So I believe this is going to be NFL preseason that night, august 10th Maybe. Yeah, that'll be cool Because there was some event like this. By the way, the Stadium Swim party last year was great. I had a blast. Talked to Alfonso Straffon Straffon. 

43:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I spoke with him a couple times as well. 

43:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know how to pronounce his last name. Maybe it's just Straffon, straffon. 

43:22 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Straffon Thursday, august 10th. No NFL games games, but there is an nfl game friday, august 11th. 

43:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Packers, bengals so what's the thursday, august 10th watch party. What's happening on thursday, august 10th, college football? 

43:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
no week zero is not until like two weeks later that's like august 27 I'm starting to see some holes. Okay, wait, wait what? What is on that day, zach? Yeah, august 10. 

43:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, wait wait what is on that day Zach yeah. August 10th Baseball yeah, mlb, MLB watch party, I guess. 

43:50 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Because the football. I got it synced into my calendar. It's August 11th Friday. 

43:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, no, no, no, no, no. It says stadium swim football watch party. 

44:02 - Zack Phillips (Other)
There's got to be something. 

44:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean, I'm going to investigate. There's got to be at least one CFL game. 

44:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Imagine it's a CFL. If it is, that actually makes it even better. Please tell there's going to be a CFL game August 10th. Thursday. August 10th, winnipeg. Bombers I knew it was going to be the Bombers. 

44:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
At the Edmonton Elks. I knew it was bombers, elks. 

44:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know bombers elks. That's 9 pm eastern, so 6 pm pacific banger football watch party. 

44:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I was wondering if he was referring to uh, european football maybe, and you know, you know what, honestly, we got to send some messages. Circa's got to go like 30, 20, 10 limit for that cfl game. Imagine they have they have to. 

44:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Everyone's going to be in Vegas. Imagine it's like bigger liability than any of their NFL preseason games. It will be. 

44:53 - Zack Phillips (Other)
This one's showing up. It's not coming up in the. 

44:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, there is NFL preseason. 

44:57 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Texans Patriots and Vikings Seahawks. 

44:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, so we got some NFL preseason as well. 

45:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Alright, good thing. Stadium. Swim has more than two screens so they will fit that Bombers-Alex game on. 

45:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It would have been. Really that will be on. They show the CFL games, guaranteed 100%. That's going to be on there, guaranteed, without a doubt. That's a fun event. I would highly recommend you go to that Period. Stadium Swim is amazing. You're there with other bettors Talk. You're there with other bettors talk to mike craig last year. Chris bruno good dude, that was good. That's going to be your worst hangover night probably, because not only are you drinking, but you're drinking in the sun. You're going to be like roasted. What's the next morning? Oh, perfect timing another hangover right into the morning. Events, expert panels with lunch buffet included. Might get a GRP wins sighting at this one, like last year where he snuck into the event. I'm going to be on one of the expert panels this year Announcement coming in the next week or so. 

46:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, if that's not an excuse to not go to the expert panels this year announcement coming in the next week or so, but uh, well if that's not an excuse to not go to the expert panels. 

46:13 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I don't know what it is. No, no, no, no, you're. 

46:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
When you find out who the people are on this panel, you will be there, you will you will be in attendance I'm not going to tell you you're going to get the announcement with everyone else, matt metcalf, formerly of Circa, is organizing the panels and finalized this one with me. It is going to be a banger you will not want to miss this panel. 

46:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Are you the youngest or oldest guy on the panel? I am not the oldest. 

46:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There are how many people on the panel there's a moderator and five panelists. 

46:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh, it's already going to be a debacle on itself. It may be an absolute change. I know what it is. I know what it is. I know who's on it. Can I guess right now you can? 

46:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
guess, but I cannot confirm. Okay, I cannot come. I will not have a reaction, I promise not to cam only on john I'll tell you. 

46:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'll tell you exactly what it's going to be. All right, the moderator and this, just so you guys know. If I get this right, which I ultimately probably will get at least five, five of these six correct. So rob's on. So what's rob going to be on at bet bash? Right, obviously, obviously this guy's going to be on a sports gambling twitter panel. There's no other way you put rob in a panel. He's not going to be on a modeling panel, no f that. All right. So panelist. So moderator, I'll get to, because I know who it is and I know how rob thinks. 

47:28
Okay, earlier in the episode, who do you accidentally mention out of nowhere, probably because you heard this name this week? Moderator gimme starting moderator darren revel. Okay, panelist one rob pazola slots in that one. You know that's already correct. Okay, then we have three, two, three, four and five other panelists, correct? All right, benson, guaranteed, jeff Benson's in Benson. Rob Rufus Peabody, three. Then we're going to have to go with one of the guys that. So I would have said digs, but he earlier tweeted he wasn't going to bet bash, so it can't be him, but it'll be one of those guys. 

48:17
So one of digs shipper frank costanza no, not not that guy, but one of those guys that's like in the gambling Twitter Seville troll community, brett Favre. One of those guys Egg Pete. I don't know who else, so yeah, one of those. And then one more will be. He said I'm going to, I'm going to be there, it's got to be. Book it Trent. Okay, and that's my starting five, starting six, including wait. Did I name six? 

48:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yeah, okay you got revel as the moderator. Yeah me, rufus benson. Rufus, uh, one of the seville guys, whoever that might be, and book at trent and book at trent, it's good guesses I can't say anything, don't confirm or deny. 

49:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, after the announcement we'll revisit. Rob Pozzola can confirm. 

49:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Regards from Canada. No, those are good guesses. I don't know what the other panels are, by the way. 

49:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't even know if this is a panel about gambling Twitter. For all I know, this guy's on like a hockey betting panel and none of these guys are. I will say you nailed the topic. I nailed the topic. 

49:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I honestly don't know how you did that, but you nailed the topic okay if I nailed the topic. You are 100 right. I would have like no interest in being on like an nfl panel or an nhl like none of that appeals. 

49:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, and he's not a bookmaker, so he's not going to be on any of these like, so okay listen, I already got like I like the confirmation. The rest it's I'll leave it. I'll leave it. I don't want to give it away, but if that is a panel that I guessed, absolutely I will fucking be there at that panel guaranteed panels to me at any conference, regardless of whether they're bet, bash or or. 

50:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know the circle jerks that are like the other gaming conferences. Um, they are like hit or miss, they're hit or miss. I hope that there's some q a involved, because usually the best part of the panels are the q a at the end, where people ask questions that, like you know that the moderator can't ask fair enough, all right. 

50:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
and then what else we got before we uh, get into the positive, negative ev EV plays of the week? 

50:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, so this Hall of Fame induction ceremony, open bar and four-course dinner included. Dress code black tie recommended. Business smart is required. 

50:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Bro, business smart is honestly significantly different from black tie. 

50:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Very, very different Business. 

50:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
smart is jeans and a blazer and no no, no, it could also just be business smart could just be a dress shirt and like a long sleeve button-up yeah, and jeans okay I don't again. 

51:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't want. I don't want to be disrespectful to people. This is not what I don't mean to be disrespectful to people. This is not what I'm. I don't mean to disrespect people. But based off of the crowd at Bet Bash last year, black tie attire I don't think is in how many of those people do you think, go in a tuxedo, the older crowd will Like Spanky will Like Roxy's being induct inducted, so he's going to dress up and whatever. 

51:29
But they're the older crowd and again I want to think of people in terms of age or anything. But yes, but like to put it into perspective. Sorry, I tell stories. I'm very candid about things. Honestly, this guy's not going to get offended. Anyways, no matter what, roxy roxborough invited us to an event at his place prior to bet bash last year. Um, and you know, I messaged spanky. I'm like you know, like where's roxy? He's like you gotta, you gotta dress up like this is this everybody knows to dress up, or so I put on like some nice clothes and I went over there Spreadopedia, showed up afterwards in like shorts, t-shirt, flip-flops and just like, walked in, had a good time, had a blast. That's how most of the people at Bet Bash are dressing on a daily and it's not a disrespect. Some people don't want to dress up or whatever, but like I don't know how many black tie wears, even I don't mind dressing up. I'm probably not going to go in full tux, you know. 

52:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, four-hour dinner. Tell everyone where they can get their tickets. You tell them, get your tickets for Bet Bash 3. 

52:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This year in Las Vegas, nevadaada, at circus sports and the d hotel august 8th through 11th technically the 12th, though, because this party spills into the 12th, august 8 through 12 tickets at bet bashco I. 

53:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Apparently they're going up. I'll be honest, I don't really like that spanky's doing that. He keeps me all tickets about to go up. Get them now they're about to. I'll be honest, I don't really like that Spanky's doing that. He keeps being all tickets about to go up. Get them now. They're about to go up. I don't love that. But apparently they're about to go up, so get them now. 

53:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know if they're going up or not that that VIP legacy club though. Party is a banger, Absolute banger. 

53:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, all right, Zach. Let's give your positive and negative EV plays of the week. 

53:31 - Zack Phillips (Other)
All right. First one I've got here positive EV play of the week. Shout out to our friend Francesco Greco, it's the country of Italy. They are positive expected value. The whole country, just as a whole. According to TMZ, the country of Italy has reached out to Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk because they want them to fight in their upcoming duel at the Coliseum. 

53:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would man, that would be. It's not going to happen, but that would be amazing. 

53:59 - Zack Phillips (Other)
That's my, the country of Italy. 

54:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The country of Italy. 

54:02 - Zack Phillips (Other)
They just battled them through here. The ministry says the ministry of Culture says nothing formal was offered. Sources inside the camps related to Zuckerberg, musk and Dana White have confirmed or said that they've contacted and it has been passed on to Dana White. So that is my positive. Ev plays. Country of Italy. Just big things happening there. 

54:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sure, I mean. It's obvious you don't want Francesco to murder you when he murders me, so I do get why you're saying that I'm staying on the safe side. He's apparently building an apartment for me to go live in for a bit. He's been sending me pictures. I said I need a signed contract that he's not going to kill me when I'm out there. And he said I cannot do that for you, my friend regards from Italy. 

54:46 - Zack Phillips (Other)
All right, zach, and your negative EV play of the week okay, so I'm gonna throw this one out there and then this one is open to debate people online on YouTube. I want to hear in the comments. And then you guys have interested your thoughts because it started out as negative EV and it turns out I might have been way off on this one. My negative EV was the announcement that flying cars have now been approved by the FAA and are available for pre-order at $300K. This announcement came out less than a week after the OceanGate thing in the Titanic and I was like, oh, negative EV, move these billionaires just paid $250K. They go down there. 

55:25
Obviously, unfortunate stuff happens with that situation. But I was like, oh, you're gonna now introduce flying cars right away. Well, it appears that there's already been 250 million dollars worth of pre-orders based on these cars. So I was like, oh, this is terrible. Like people are going to be really hesitant to do this kind of seems like I was wrong. But interested where you guys are your thoughts and your heads out on those I did see the article. 

55:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I honestly don't know where to stand on flying cars because now, like I saw that and I'm like here we go like when is when is when is it too much? But if flying cars are like driven around for like four or five years and they hold up, right, you bet your ass I'm going to get a flying car. 

56:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What is a flying car Like a regular car that just goes a little above the? 

56:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
road, because I have to clarify here. I saw only what I saw on Twitter, but the picture looked like it was way above. 

56:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So basically, are you referring to, by chance, an airplane? 

56:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
In a sense yes. So you're saying planes, we're. 

56:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I saw this and I'm like I just did one of the shakes of my heads at the computer for a while it's essentially a mini plane that could hold two people yeah, two to three people and flies above the cars yeah, so a helicopter in a sense, I'm sure if you want to call it that I'll I'll abstain from further comment until I see these things get in the air, but I'm all for reducing traffic and commute to work or wherever you need to go, so I I would be in. 

56:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, but how are they gonna police this stuff though, like if this is a bunch of flying cars in the air, like you know, you get in an accident and then you hit another car at the bottom. 

57:07 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah. 

57:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's the only issue how do you not like I don't want to be like the guy here, but like there's a lot of stuff that goes up into the air, that, like pilots are trained to, like they're way above this. These don't look like they're going to be above buildings. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we got to see. Do you follow the road just above the road things. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we got to see. Do you follow the road just above the road? I don't know how this is going to work. It seems like this is a really bad idea. However, like I mentioned, if there are many years where this is working and, like I thought, I thought Tesla self-driving cars were a shit show of an idea for a long time. Then people started driving them, they work, and now I drive one and it works and I have no complaints. 

57:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Not a bad, not a bad comparison. All right, Rob. 

58:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, plus EV move. Afternoon power naps. I've recently started on the afternoon power nap train. Now, as someone who employs other people, I would have they came to me before and said Rob, I'm going to be booking off 20 minutes in my calendar every day so I could take a nap. I would have said here are your papers, see you later. We're finding someone to replace you. However, since starting these, I will say they actually really work. Now you have to keep it short. 

58:44
I did research into this and studied it. I'm a guy that, like when I fall asleep, you wake me up like I'm groggy. I don't want to be like bothered, but if you keep it to like 15, 20 minutes, it's honestly for me the equivalent of drinking like a couple of coffees. I can go the afternoon without drinking coffee anymore because I actually do feel recharged and refreshed. So, as someone who used to shit on the afternoon power nap, I will say I highly encourage them going forwards. They are very refreshing and, most importantly for me, they've not affected my ability to sleep at night. That's what I was concerned about too. If I throw in a nap during the day, am I going to have trouble going to bed at night? No, 15 to 20 minute power nap in the afternoon, plus ev. Have you tried the coffee now? The coffee nap where you drink coffee before, yeah, no, okay, so I don't want to mess around with what I got right no, but honestly I'll just go into it now. 

59:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
My positive ev play the week was legit coffee. I can't and and that's actually hilarious that we we're on this, but positive ev play the week, just coffee in general. 

59:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What a what a thing? Can I tell you that coffee is the most minus ev thing ever. Why we I am, I cannot function as a human without coffee anymore. That's you know how minus ev that is. 

01:00:05
No, that's a mind, if I go on vacation and I can't find a coffee within like an hour of waking up, my day is ruined. That's on you, it's maybe it is on me. I mean, it obviously is on me. You know what the worst part about it is. I actually went through like this is maybe eight years ago. Eight years ago I went through a one month withdrawal, getting off of like coffee, completely One of the coffee, completely. One of the most miserable months of my life, like completely weeded out coffee first couple weeks, headaches, fatigue, whatever. I got off it for like four or five months like an idiot. I tried a decaf one day I got the taste back and I've been coffee ever since. 

01:00:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Personally, I drink about 35 to 45 cups a day. I actually drink. You actually didn't even hesitate, though this guy didn't even jump. 

01:01:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've seen you at the espresso machine before. 

01:01:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You do fire, you do rip. I drink coffee, not 35 to 45 cups, I love coffee. 

01:01:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Don't get me wrong, I love coffee. Not 35 to 45 cups. I love coffee. Don't get me wrong, I love coffee. Coffee's amazing, but I'm beholden to it. I'm like my slave to the coffee bean. 

01:01:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's a mindset. It's a real problem. There's obviously caffeine in it, in which I guess is somewhat addictive. But before I get into my minus EV yeah, I'm all good coffee's all time go ahead. 

01:01:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Previously in an episode, your minus ev was the cards yeah, okay, gifting somebody a card. 

01:01:37
This is this has picked up a lot of steam on twitter with uh luke, live, dog luke posting a uh a full message in response, taking issue with the minus EV card stance. I think this is the actual message. I strongly disagree with your minus EV card. Take, here's my box of cards I have been saving for over a decade. Looking back at these through the years and reading notes from loved ones who are no longer with us in their own handwriting brings me unmeasurable joy. And plus, plus plus EV. I get it Totally reasonable. Take, I feel like people are missing what we're saying, because you brought this up and I agree with you. It's not the card itself that is bringing Luke unmeasurable joy, it's the message, and that's all I'm saying. 

01:02:33
You don't have to go out and buy a $7 card to give to somebody. You can write a note on a piece of paper. It could be on a napkin, it can be on toilet paper while you're sitting and taking a crap. It could be whatever. It's just the message that counts and that's what I want to get across. You're not beholden to the card itself. You could. You could print it, you could fold a piece of paper in half. You can do whatever. You can take a cardboard box and you can rip out a corner and write a note. There's a lot of ways that you can give someone a note, and what Luke is describing here is the note itself. 

01:03:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, it's obviously nicer in in their own handwriting. I'll respect that you can't get that on like an email or a text or anything like that, so that's fair and it would be nicer to be on like a nice card as opposed to toilet paper. 

01:03:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But well, toilet paper was a bit of a. 

01:03:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The majority, the majority of cards that people give out don't even say anything in them other than happy birthday from Rob and yes, or they're like a really lame joke or some sort of pop-up thing that, like you're not getting the joy out of the thing, popping out of the card, yeah Reading the message. 

01:03:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We respect that. Take Luke Definitely respect that take. 

01:03:44
I completely get this, by the way, like I'm a sentimental person. I know it seems like I have no heart, but I actually do. I'm very emotional guy. If it's important to me, I keep it. My wife's always like why are you keeping this shit? Whatever, I'm like because it means something to me, it's valuable or whatever. 

01:03:59
But the note itself is very plus ev. The card seven dollars, eight dollars. Where does it end? That's where the minus ev part comes in. Anyways, all right, this week's negative ev, minus ev. It's canada day weekend. This weekend, fourth of july, I cannot tell you how minus ev it is to buy fireworks. Okay, first of all, if you enjoy fireworks, I'm not going to take that away from you. There are so many ways to enjoy fireworks on the 4th of July or Canada Day that do not involve you actually purchasing the fireworks. Fireworks, in terms of entertainment, in entertainment, value to cost is about the worst imaginable. Like it's right up there. Like, if you want to put on a good fireworks show for, like your friends, whatever people have people over. Like you're looking at a nickel as as spank, you would say you can't say 500 bucks or whatever 500 doesn't even get you a good show, no, it gets you some fucking rockets, and you know like the 500 doesn't even get you a good show. 

01:05:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, it gets you some fucking rockets and you know, like the it's, it's shit. 500 gets you a show that you can at least say all right, I'm going to be doing fireworks and it's not a one thing, yeah, but like I'll tell you what happens, or what has happened in my life every year, where me and my friends pitch in to buy fireworks. 

01:05:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Everybody pitches in. We got a couple of dimes, fireworks happen. Then the wives are like, okay, what's next? And we're like that's it, that was the show. They're like I don't know, it was more, we got a couple. I'm like, yeah, that's, that's a couple thousand dollars worth of fireworks, that's what it's going to get you. And then, like, their kids are like, oh, more fireworks or whatever. I'm like well, you know, this is not a Now. 

01:05:51
I mentioned this at lunch today with Mark Office employee and he's like no, no, fireworks are amazing. All the kids, they have so much fun, whatever. No, here's what's happening. You're now creating this vicious cycle where those kids are going to grow up and now they're going to buy fireworks on top of it and they're going to piss away their money because they had so much fun seeing these colors in the sky. Like you can go. You don't even have to go to the amusement park to see the fireworks they fire up into the air. You can park at the side of the road in a local park. People pull off the highway or the freeway to watch fireworks, like I get it. If you like fireworks, you can find somewhere anywhere. There's other people that will spend the money on the fireworks. Just don't do it yourself. Buying fireworks huge, piss, waste, might as well. Take that money, deposit it into Pinnacle, at least throw down a parlay or something like that. 

01:06:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Canada Day parlay, you'll get way more satisfaction. 

01:06:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Fade the Blue Jays on Canada Day. It is 100% a trend that will go on for the rest of the time. I don't know what it is about the red jerseys. They lose at home every single year. Compound that every single year. 

01:07:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Honestly, that was a good rant. I respect that. 

01:07:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would say I don't want to be the no fun guy. I like having fun, I like doing things. 

01:07:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It doesn't get you much. His argument is this it's not even that fireworks aren't good, it's just like buying them yourself and doing it. It doesn't really provide that good of a show. 

01:07:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Unless you want to just buy like 200 Roman candles. Nobody likes the Roman candles. 

01:07:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, no one likes the shit fireworks. 

01:07:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Exactly the Roman candles. Yeah, they're cheap. People are like, oh, I don't want to see Roman candles. 

01:07:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know what we used to do with Roman candles? We used to shoot them at each other. Now, I don't recommend that. Don't do that. My buddy singed his hair off one year. It's bad, bad, bad idea. 

01:07:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's also been some firework? No, don't, don't, that's another thing. Well, this is another thing with fireworks too. Like you got to set them up properly. You know, I'm not. It's not hard if you're not experienced, but if you're an idiot, they fall over, they start firing into the crowd. You know it's minus EV all around. Leave it up to the professionals to run the firework shows. Go enjoy it with your family. You don't spend a dot, honestly. You can pay the amusement park entrance and you're paying way less, way, way, way less. 

01:08:23
Then you take your whole family to Disney and get tickets in, and you're paying less than it's going to take to put on a good fireworks show at home all right, I'll see if I can top that you're gonna take some heat for that I likely can't. 

01:08:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I likely can't top that, but I have one that's I'm gonna get some disagreement on. But I don't even see how I get disagreement on this one all right. Negative ev play of the week is buying somebody for a gift, a gift card, instead of giving cash. Now, the only ever arguments I got to this are well, sometimes you don't want to give someone cash, you want to give them a gift card so that they go and spend that and then they'll remember that you were the one who no, they don't remember that, they don't remember. You want them to remember it. Give them the one who no, they don't remember that, they don't remember that you want them to remember it. Give them the actual gift. Right, there's two gifts. You can give someone A physical gift or cash. Yeah, that's it. You want to give someone Leafs tickets? Give them Leaf tickets. Yeah, you want to give them a Ticketmaster gift card. Give them cash, a ticket master gift card. Give them cash. Don't give them the ticket master gift card. 

01:09:32
It's ridiculous, you, you just completely like. You basically just pin them down to only be able to spend that money at that one place, which maybe they don't want to spend it at that one place and even if they do, they could just spend the cash there for the same amount of value. And in fact, yeah, like sometimes people have a gift card, you get a 200 gift card, 100 gift card. You go buy something. They're like okay, I'll go check it out. You want to buy something? 86? Now I got 14 left. I gotta buy something I don't even want, for 14 could have been in my bank. Feels like a piss waste. Yeah, what a waste. Some gift cards expire after two years if you don't use them, or they deduct five bucks every month, whatever. 

01:10:08
That's another one of the biggest scams going in the space. Some other gift cards. You can't check the balance. You could lose them, which is way more likely than just losing physical cash. Obviously, you lose the cash too, so it's not foolproof, but you're way more likely to lose a gift card than cash. In addition, what happens when you get a Booster Juice gift card? I don't even know if Booster Juice is in the US or not. 

01:10:31 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I think I've seen Booster. 

01:10:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Juice in the US. What happens when you get a Booster Juice gift card and then you go to Booster Juice and you're like, oh, are you kidding me? I had my gift card in the car and my buddy drove. I don't even have it on me. You literally need these gift cards on you for so many things you can't get on the app. 

01:10:46
There are certain places where a gift card is almost as good as cash. For example, you live in Canada. You're going to give someone a $25 Tim card, which is a Tim Hortons gift card. That's pretty much as good as cash. You're going to spend $25 at Tim Hortons between now and the end of the year in some capacity. But also, the cash is still better for all the reasons. People also say oh, what about a Visa gift card? You know a Visa gift card where it's just, you can use it anywhere. A, not all places take Visa. Two, they charge an activation fee and three, you then have to still deal with carrying around that card and having it. 

01:11:28
Therefore, the very easy solution is you want to get someone a gift? Yes, you get them cash. You take them somewhere for an experience or a dinner or whatever it might be, or you get them the physical gift Because I do believe there's value in getting someone a thoughtful gift. Or even you know, even like, let's say, you got them a nice dress shirt for someone. You're like, oh, you know. Even like, let's say, you got them a nice dress shirt for someone. You're like oh, you know what I was, I know it's your birthday. I was shopping, I thought you'd look good in this shirt. Here you are, I got you this shirt. Oh, great, amazing. Put a gift receipt in there. If they don't like it, they go back to get a store credit. 

01:12:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So be it, all good thoughtful gift, but don't just go and be like, hey, I got you a gift card to this place. I'm mostly in agreement with you. Well, first of all, gift cards are mostly just like a money money laundering technique. Let's be honest here, right, no, people do gift cards. Well, they do, but, like you know, if you got like a thousand in cash you don't want to put in a bank account, you just go get all the netflix gift card, whatever. Just put gift cards on all your accounts. It's way easier, anyways, when I that's not financial advice for anyone out there, but that's an easy way to get around too much cash on hand. 

01:12:31
Situation gift cards A lot of people do that shit. But the one thing with a gift card is that you can force something that you like onto someone else. So here's the use case for the gift card. Here we are here, we are okay, okay. No, here's the use case for the gift. Here we are, here, we are Okay, okay. 

01:12:48
No, here's the use case, right, like you eat at a really good restaurant and you're like, ah, you know, I got to get my you know my brother a gift or something like that, so you can get him a gift card to this restaurant because I want him to come here. I don't want him to just go to the. He can go to the keg. It's keg every time, which is what he's going to do. So I'll be like, ah, you know what? Raffaella's cantina, this is a great spot. Let me get him a couple hundred dollar gift card so he takes his fiance here instead. Now, you could also just take him out as a gift, like you could do that instead, but then you got to coordinate schedules. So that's this scenario where I think that gift cards are valuable. 

01:13:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair enough that that actually is. I don't have a comeback for that. 

01:13:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But for the most part I agree with you. Gift cards are just annoying. These are, you know. They're just annoying nowadays. 

01:13:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I used to, I would resell the gift cards I have for like 95 cents on the dollar to get the cash, like that was what I would do when I was a kid. I'd be like I don't want this gift card here. Have it. A hundred dollar gift card, give me 95. 

01:13:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Huge plus EV move in my life. I played in one of those like charity golf tournaments once or whatever. That was one of my buddy's construction companies. They needed like an extra person to play in a foursome boom. 

01:14:06
Whatever you get there, there you check in it was pretty expensive. It was like 300 bucks or whatever. You get your your dinner around and like a gift bag and uh, I was going through this gift bag I'm like it's all donated stuff it's. But there was a rw and co? Uh gift card in the gift bag and uh, like sure you know what, like I, I don't shop there a lot, but I'll go check it out. It's more, it's like a men's clothing spot. You can get like dress shirts and chinos and whatever, right. 

01:14:36
And when I went back to my car after dinner, all the people's golf carts they're just like parked in the parking lot because these people are too lazy to take them back to the cart return, but most people their gift bags behind. So I was like, fuck, well, we'll get all these rw and coat gift cards and whatever. I thought there's going to be like 10 bucks on these things. Every single one of those was 50 bucks. I collected like 20 of those in the parking lot. I just got like a whole new wardrobe from a random golf tournament that I went out, so I I have a bad. 

01:15:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I have a place in my heart for, uh, the gift cards, because of that personal experience of mine but what it proves, though if they had tossed 50 cash in there, no one would have left that 100 100 and someone paid for those gift cards. 

01:15:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Somebody paid to put 50 bucks on each one of those. That would have just been money completely wasted forever. Someone would have wasted a thousand. Yeah, that would have just been money completely wasted forever. Someone would have wasted a thousand. Yeah, they would have gone in the garbage literally. Somebody would have just thrown those bags in the garbage. When they did the cart cart return to clean up at night, rp bought a couple shirts, rp at rw and co. Eric carlson was the the, the guy in the pictures at the time the mustache he was playing for the Ottawa Senators at the time. 

01:15:50 - Zack Phillips (Other)
All right, disgraceful organization. One thing that used to happen all the time and this was with one side of my family. My dad would do this thing. He knew that one side would give cash. They had no problem with that. The other side hated giving cash. It was always gift cards. It was like oh, oh, what are you trying to buy? So, like him and my mom are fine, saving up for a vanity in the bathroom or whatever, let's say as an example, they find it at home depot. The side won't give cash. So they're like where do you want? They say home depot gift cards, one person, always home depot, home depot, lows, lows. 

01:16:23
And then you're like yo rona I mean, it's just you're right, johnny, like, like the cash and cash is just it's much, it's much easier 

01:16:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
sorry not not to mention another thing. You guys know, as you can tell if you listen to this podcast, I love saving time. Like you also do have to physically go get the gift cards, and yes, you might be able to buy some online, but for the most part you have to go actually physical, physically, get it. Another thing you give the gift card no receipt. It's happened to me once I got an lcbo gift card 100 bucks. I went to the lcbo, which is the liquor store. Liquor store. I go use it like this car is not activated. You got scummed. Either someone scummed me which they didn't, because it was a family member who wouldn't scum me, probably just a mistake or maybe they paid and the store just forgot to credit it. 

01:17:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Either way, someone got so christmas gift for johnny that that year nope. And speaking of scum, 57.8 of you who are watching right now are not subscribed to this youtube channel. The last 28 days, 57.8 take two seconds. Hit the subscribe button. It helps us grow this content, helps other people find it and, of course, if you did enjoy it like it on youtube, rate and review five stars on wherever you are listening to this in audio form. This has been episode 109 of the circles off podcast. We'll catch everyone next week. Thanks for watching.