00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off, we're joined by a pro sports bettor who goes by the alias Juan Martinez real name, Josh. He's a personal friend of mine. I have honestly never been more excited for an interview in the history of this program. You are not going to want to miss it. Circles Off, episode 114 starts now. Welcome to Circles Off, episode number 114, right here on. Come on, let's go. We always go. Maple Leafs Matt Stajan. Matthew Stajan that guy was my childhood. 

00:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He was always on the team through good and bad. 

00:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, he was like the third line center forever. 

00:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I met him when I was a kid, got his autograph. Yeah, andy Dalton, andy Dalton 14. 

00:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Stefan Diggs, Diggs, 14. Who do you got? Brendan Shanahan wore 14 back in the day against another leaf. Um, I'll never forget a number 14. He's a very forgettable player. But uh, brad johnson was the quarterback in the first ever nfl game that I went to. 

01:18
I was a teenager, drove to Detroit. This is before Ford Field. It was the Pontiac Silverdome. It rained that day. The Pontiac Silverdome is built at the bottom of a hill. It was literally like completely flooded, almost impossible to get anywhere close to park, so you had to park a mile away. On the way walking into the stadium, girl in front of me had her purse snatched by someone who just took off. Like it was like. This is my first experience of an NFL game but I'll never forget. The Detroit Lions won the worst football game of all time 15 to 10. Their offense could do nothing. Their quarterback was Charlie Batch. Like the scrub Pittsburgh Steelers backup Charlie Batch. He stunk. But Brad Johnson was the quarterback for the Washington Redskins at the time. I don't know if he threw five interceptions in that game. I want to say four or five, but he was horrible and like the comparable to Brad Johnson nowadays would probably be like what Andy Dalton is now at his point in his career, just like below serviceable level. 

02:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
QB. 

02:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Got a role as a backup on every team, on a lot of teams, but like not going to play, but my first ever game and I got to tell you like I've always had respect for Detroit sports because of how loud it was in that stadium and while I don't condone violence at sporting events, the fan base is so passionate and dedicated. I saw a guy with a washington redskins foam finger walking down the aisle and like pointing it in some guy's face on the lions bro. That guy got tossed down the stairs. Never seen anything like that in my entire life, just as a 13 year old kid, to see a woman get her purse snatched and a guy get pushed down the stairs in the span of a couple hours all in the hometown of all in beautiful detroit, michigan. 

03:15
I will never forget that. That was an experience for sure. We have a very special guest on today's show. I think people, people are really going to enjoy this. In terms of OG bettors. He's there. You may have not heard of him before, but he's had a pretty storied career in betting, going on approximately 20 years now. But before we get to our guest, I do want to remind you. Pinnacle is now available to bettors in Ontario and they are the world's sharpest sportsbook. We're very proud to have Pinnacle as a sponsor here and you can find out what professional bettors have known for decades. Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19 plus and, of course, we always preach it. Please play responsibly. 

04:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Rob Pinnacle is absolutely crushing it for NFL lines. So if you guys are listening to this NFL season's a couple of weeks away, all the lines are posted. I went over to BetStamp earlier today checking week one lines. Pinnacle has the best price on just over half the games. It is actually insane at this point how much you need Pinnacle as one of your sports books. Reminder to everyone, if you do need more like a new sportsbook, it can't hurt. 

04:28
For NFL season, the best promos are going to be coming up basically from now up until the start of the NFL season. So this is the best time of the year even better than Super Bowl to actually sign up for a new account. If you want to do so. There's going to be a link on the screen right now link on the description. This also really helps support the show and helps us keep turning out amazing content. But go over to wwwbetstampapp. Slash circles off. No matter what region you're in, you're going to find at least one or two sports books that you probably don't have that you can sign up for. Use the links on the page help support the show and, as always, we do appreciate that if you know who this person is, if you know who the person we're about to interview is, then you're already watching, because this is his first interview publicly and it's a banger. If you don't know who it is, you got to tune in. This is not one you want to miss. That being said, we're going to welcome in our guest. 

05:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're now joined by a very special guest here on Circles Off. Simply put, he is a professional sports better Does it all. We're going to get into it top to bottom with him. You can follow him on Twitter at CallCustService. Goes by the alias Juan Martinez. Real name, Josh. Steps up and in here on Circles Off, Josh. How's it going? Great Thanks for having me, fellas. 

05:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, no problem at all. Before we kick this off, I just want to say, on a personal note, this man is one of the best in the biz. So, before we get into this interview, whoever you've heard on here in the past, they might be good. Whatever you want to think, this man is one of the best in the biz. With that josh first question up, because we're gonna ask some hard hitters here today. All right, the first one, the first one, I want to know which. I already know the answer, but I want you to tell it to other people because it's so great that handle call customer service. I know where it's from and very few people will know where it's from if you really think of it, but explain the story behind it. 

06:27 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Uh so call customer service is is basically what happens when you're betting at a book. The bookmaker uses the interface to turn you off. So then when you go to log in the account the next day or whenever right after, you have a big message on your screen that says call customer service. So you know you're, you know you're toast so it's an inside play. 

06:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Only people who would know that that even pops up and what that is are people who would win on those accounts enough to actually get cut off a pph account. So it's a little double entendre there we really. I really appreciated it as soon as I saw the handle. To be honest, the first time I saw it I didn't I obviously I've seen it before call customer service, but I didn't really click to me. And then one day I logged in and I saw call customer service and then it clicked to me. It was like a couple months after I saw your handle like, holy shit, that's one of the best handles in twitter history. 

07:17 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Yeah it's called customer service. 

07:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've definitely had a few of those over the years it's such a great handle because the reality is that there's so few like. The percentage of sports bettors that will actually get that reference is actually extremely low. It was actually very similar to the motivating factor behind the name of this podcast, behind circles off. We wanted like more of a niche sports betting terminology that like the true betters would really understand and we can kind of fill people in on that as it goes, goes on through time. But I do love the handle as well. I still actually get a kick out of the avatar as well Every single time. It's a. 

07:56 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I appreciate it? 

07:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, absolutely. For those that don't know my personal you know personal relationship with Josh goes back probably six years now to an MIT Sloan sports betting analytics conference where I was sitting with my betting partner at the time, frank Brank, at a bar, I believe at the Sheridan Hotel in Boston, just talking eating some of those beautiful potato chips that they had at the bar there and this guy best chips around Guy next to me overhears my conversation about sports betting, taps me on the shoulder, says, oh, you guys are betting this and that and the relationship has developed ever since. But, josh, for people that don't know you out there, give us the personal background on you and specifically how you got to where you are now in the sports betting space well, it's been a, as you all can tell, I'm kind of old, so it's been a long journey. 

08:52 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
But I started, probably messing around sports betting when I was in college. 

08:57
My roommate, who was also a guy that was in my fraternity, he was kind of a campus bookmaker he was kind of a campus bookmaker and, um, he was a couple years older than me, so when he uh, when he took off to go back home or whatever, he fled some customers down at school he needed some help with collecting or you know. 

09:16
Just, you know, having a presence still on campus, he asked me to help him. Um, and that's kind of, when I got involved with, uh, you know, betting, um, so it was kind of on the other end, but I was just more of like a lackey, uh, you know, just doing, doing, you know, small, small jobs for them, um, so that's that's kind of how I, I guess I learned about sports betting or, you know, fell into my lap. I mean, it was sheer luck, honestly, that I even started, you know, in that kind of thing, because it wasn't really something that I was started, you know, in that kind of thing because it wasn't really something that I was into or you know anything like that. I was just more like a you know dude going to college, trying to party and have a good time, and that's pretty much how I you know got into the space, I guess. 

10:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean, that was my first job. So how did you? How did you start to win? 

10:05 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I mean, that was my first job, so how did you, uh, how did you start to win? Okay, so, while I was working with that guy, uh, he had a customer, um, and the guy was, you know, he came in and I remember the guy's like, oh yeah, this guy also had a book at the time and he's like, oh yeah, I need to dump off some action. Um, he played a really stupid like he, kind of a degenerate. He's like I need, you know, some accounts. Can I bet a couple times a game? Uh, you know, maybe you know you'll make some money because I'm just dumping off action. 

10:33
So what ended up happening was, though, it was like in the middle of college basketball season, and I remember the guy was always coming in schools like I hadn't even heard of at the time. You know, I was really an amateur at all this and I knew absolutely nothing, but he'd come in like late and play like schools like Pepperdine and UC Santa Barbara, you know, and I was just like what you know, this guy must really be a loser. He's, you know he's. He's coming out on some weird stuff here, you know, but the guy, he, he was crushing, I mean, he was he. He beat my, my buddy's brains, I mean. So after a few weeks we were were, you know, kind of wondering what was going on, if it was a stroke of luck or whatever. But we were definitely intrigued because it was, like, you know, kind of nothing you'd really ever seen before. So I talked to the guy, who's a really cool guy I'm still friends with him to this day and he just kind of said like, hey, look, so you have to keep in mind, this is probably for a concept of time. This is probably back in, like you know, 2005 or 6. 

11:25
I would say, um, so not everybody had the same odds. So what would happen is my buddy, would you know, he'd have his book and he'd have a voicemail set up and he'd go through the rundown and he'd put the lines up at like five o'clock and he put all the schools up, whatever, and uh, so basically all the guy was doing at the time was just playing off numbers. So he's betting Pepperdine at 8 30 at night, he's betting minus seven and the real line's like minus nine and a half. There was nothing really to the strategy. So he told me about that and uh, you know, he introduced me to kind of the Don Best screen and uh, you know that that was pretty much it for me. 

12:01
So because once I saw what he was, I was like man, this is honestly pretty easy. There wasn't much to it. I mean, the only issue that I really had at that point was I didn't have a bankroll. So what I would do instead of just betting the games because I really didn't have any money, I was a college kid. I mean, I probably had, you know, or right out of college at this point I probably had, you know, a few G's to my name I would middle the games. So if I could bet Pepperdine minus seven, then I would come back and just play plus nine and a half with another bookmaker and that's kind of how I started getting involved with like sharp play. 

12:33
It was really that simple and it was just stroke of luck because at the time it was when the Internet was becoming more of, like you know, a prevalent thing, like a lot of dudes were just using phone lines and stuff like this. It was kind of like the time when the old school was meeting the new, so there was just a ton of opportunities everywhere. So, uh, I just hit up all my buddies from college. I had a job right after college. I, I got, I worked in kind of like a boiler room, phone room type of thing. All these dudes were gambling, they all had bookies. So I was just getting a bunch of bookies and you know, I was probably 23, 24 years old, I had like 20 bookies and I mean it was going really good. You know, you could take Pepperdine minus seven. I'm just using this as an example. 

13:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But you could do that all day long, you could have two and a half three-point middles on sides. 

13:22 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
You know you were getting up to five point middles on totals. Like these dudes just had no idea what they were doing, all these local bookies, and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Um, eventually my bankroll built and I realized I could just keep playing the bad, the bad numbers, and you know it started piling in a bit, you know so. So that was kind of how I I started. You know that that was that was, you know, when I was, when I was coming up and I was, you know that that was that was you know, when I was, when I was coming up and I was, you know, starting to do pretty well for myself. Um, I really do think I mean it was really. I was just in the right place at the right time. If that guy hadn't told me like, hey, this is what I'm doing, I mean I wouldn't, you know, the guy probably just would have cut him off. I would have never found out anything about it. 

14:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We probably wouldn't be talking today because I'd, you know, probably be working like finance or something how long was it before you actually left that that day job and just pursued this as a full-time career? 

14:13 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
it was about you know, six months to a year, I would say so. I mean I'm I'm 41 now. I haven't had a real job since I was probably 23 or 24, but it was just, the money was good and it was hard to pass up because every time I was at work although the work was a good place to go and network and, you know, meet people for accounts and stuff Every time I felt like I went to work, I felt like I was missing out on money. 

14:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Makes sense. Honestly, that that is an interesting story. I love how, I love how it got started, but, uh, in general, I think you so I'll back this up you were in, you were in college, you just did it for fun. You found a way to win. You actually took it and scaled it up. That is the part that I think you skipped through, which was like oh so I found out how to win, I built it up for middles and whatnot. Right. But to get from that point which, to be honest, many, many people are at right now, where they can they know how to win by beating, that to get to the point you are at right now, is a massive, massive like undersell right now. So, without giving out too much info, I don't want to pry or anything like that but how do you then get it from? Yeah, okay, I can just keep it in the off numbers, grab a bunch of accounts, make a couple grand a day a week, whatever it might be. How do you get that to now? 

15:32 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Well, I mean, it's a long road, but I was doing that thing and I had kind of built up a lot of accounts. So you know, just doing that strategy I had built up a lot of accounts, it was going really well. But then at some point point the dude stopped using the phone line. So eventually everybody kind of went to you know a pph site, so only a handful of guys at some point maybe I would say I don't know, maybe and I could be wrong on the timeline here like I said, it's been a long time but at some point everybody went to pph accounts. They started going online, lines started moving a little bit faster. You could still like pick people off, but eventually I got to the point where it wasn't that easy to just pick off lines anymore, like the numbers, you know the internet was catching up. 

16:18
Everybody was using the internet. People that were taking bets were aware of the strategy I was using and everybody kind of went online and everybody was kind of using the same lines. So I had all these accounts. I mean, I was still winning, but I felt like I could win at a bigger rate. You know, I knew that there were people out there that were doing origination and I knew that. 

16:40
You know, at that point there's one of two things you could do you could be, you could choose to, you know, go back end and you could try and copy the people, which I did do. Um, there was a really good friend of mine who's like a mentor of mine. Um, he worked in one of the sports books and he would do that and a lot of the times I did that I would. 

17:00
I would get hot accounts and I would try and put the info in my accounts. But at some point I started, you know, trying to meet with originators and getting it like firsthand so I could help them out. 

17:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I could obviously help myself, and try and do it that way as far as like building the business for accounts and stuff, I mean. I just had to ask everybody. 

17:20 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I knew you know, like everybody I knew from college, or everybody that I knew from you know high school or people that I worked with, or you know family parties. I just had to ask everybody I knew and I couldn't be shy about it. 

17:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Out of curiosity. Wait hold up. Hold up what's the sell. What's the sell when you ask someone you know, like when you, is that what you're going to ask? I was going with that, okay. Okay, I had to interrupt because it's timely. When you ask a family member, what do you say? Hey, I can win betting, like you got any betting account. Like what's the sell? 

17:50 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Well, first, okay, so you tell people that you're betting on sports or whatever. And it's less than that, because sports betting is more mainstream and it's kind of like you know, more accepted. But you would always tell people you're betting on sports. 

18:08
And the first thing everybody would always say is like oh, so you're a bookie. Like I can't tell you how many people said that to me. I'm like no, I'm not a bookie, I'm trying to find bookies so I can, uh, you know, go in there and win Um, but you just have to, you know, ask people. I mean, it's the same with any job. Like, if you want something, you have to, you know, kind of put yourself out there and maybe the person tells you to fuck off. 

18:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
but you know, whatever they told you to fuck off, then you find somebody that's interested. I mean, I know I'm like trying to help people make money. 

18:31 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
So if you don't like it, I get it. You know, onto the, onto the next opportunity. 

18:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know like that's in my opinion, you just have to as far as like account getting and stuff like that. 

18:42 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
you just have to be forward and you have to be upfront and you have to be, you know, confident and honest about what you're doing, and then if people don't like it, then you know they don't have to like it. 

18:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Do you notice or find that it's changed in recent years relative to maybe when you were trying to do this 10 years ago? Like, is the perception of sports betting different when you're trying to recruit accounts nowadays? I think it is. 

19:05 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I mean it seems like kind of everybody's doing it. It seems like it's kind of like you know marijuana where you know, when I was in high school and you spoke marijuana, people would get. They would go crazy. I mean they would act like you were a hardened criminal. And now you know I go to like parties with soccer, like you know soccer parents and everybody's like you want an edible. So the world changed. People don't care as much about sports betting. Now People think it's cool. Now if I go and golf with people I tell them I bet on sports, they think it's cool. Even my parents didn't like it for the longest time. But it's just kind of becoming part of the culture and I think that people enjoy it. People, people enjoy it, they like it and it's not, it's not a bad thing to do anymore. I mean don't get me wrong. 

19:49
It still could be a bad thing. If you're not being responsible and you're you know you're being a degenerate you lose a bunch of money that you should be using to feed your kids no-transcript cause. I was home all day too, so like I would go pick up my kids from school, I mean I'd never miss anything Like I have pretty much, you know, like a pretty good freedom of schedule and people are like what do you? 

20:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
do and. 

20:38 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I'd be like, since you were. 

20:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, you technically were. 

20:43 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I guess I wasn't technically lying, so yeah, that's good. I mean, you know, some people are obviously not prospects to get accounts from so you know I would lie to those people. 

20:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair enough, but very interesting story. So again, I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions that I think maybe you know, rob, or I might know the answers to, but a lot of listeners won't. So here's one is do you stick to particular sports or are you just betting everything across the board? 

21:11 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I mean I bet on everything across the board, like I would bet on cockroach racing or the NFL, I don't care. Like if there's an edge to be had, I'm happy to do it. I think with like PPH accounts, a lot of the times what happens is for people that don't know. I mean you get an account and the limit could be like a hundred bucks or 200 bucks. You know, you, you know, so that's all you get. So for me, if I give that $200 on a cockroach race or $200 on the NFL, I'm going to pick the cockroach race because I know that cockroach is fast. I might not know what Mahomes'm going to pick the cockroach race because I know that cockroach is fast. 

21:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm, I might not know what Mahomes is going to do, but I know the cockroach is going to be fast, so I don't like for me. 

21:51 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
But to answer your question, I'll bet on anything. I mean the. There's probably in the last year 30 or 40 different sporting event. You know sporting types that I've bet on anywhere from you know lacrosse to women's basketball, or you know tons of stuff. I mean I've bet on anywhere from you know lacrosse to women's basketball, or you know tons of stuff. 

22:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean, I would bet on Olympic volleyball. 

22:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If somebody said hey, josh, I got a lock in Olympic volleyball. 

22:13 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I would bet it. 

22:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We got to. We got to hook you up with our producer, Zach. He's a big lacrosse. Better nowadays might be able to get a free roll or something. Get some extra cash in there. Yeah, we we'll talk. We'll talk about that afterwards, josh, but it also you're moving into lacrosse these days I mean maybe I'll take. 

22:31 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I mean lacrosse, whatever I mean, it doesn't matter because at the end of the day, the bet size is the same. So you know, and money is green. So yeah, if it wins and I can put it in my accounts, I would consider a lacrosse bet to just be just as worthy as an NFL bet as far as I'm concerned. And then the people that I'm responsible to help make money. So if an account holder gives me an account, my job is to help them win money. So if I think the lacrosse bet's going to win, let's just say, if I think it's going to win at 58% and I have an NFL play that's going to win at 53%, I would rather give him a lacrosse play. 

23:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, just out of curiosity, I want to follow up on that because this conversation comes up a lot. I'm of a different mentality than you all together, but I probably do not have the scale of accounts that you have either, so it might be very different. But do you consider, like the likelihood that that account just may get cut off with that type of wager right? Because I figure an agent is more likely to look at something that's like oh, what, this division two, college football? Like uh, so does that come into your consideration at all? 

23:39 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
uh, you know, when you're considering playing these things I mean it, I totally understand that point and there's arguments on both sides of the fence. 

23:48
I would say that if you're betting an nfl play let's say you're betting an nfl total and you go over 51 and it closes 53 or 53 and a half, and you bet a lacrosse play and at minus 130 and it goes to minus 170, I would say there would be, you know, on one side of the coin. I would say that it would be more likely that would say there would be, you know, on one side of the coin. I would say that it would be more likely that a bookmaker would notice that the account, that the line moved from 51 to 53 and a half. Then it would be for him to notice a little cross line just because it's not posted on don best they. They have really no way to access it unless they really, you know, do some legwork. Most guys in my experience they probably are aware that sure, people exist, but at the same time they're probably running a free a free money operation where they just kind of coast through and they're making a lot of money off the dudes. 

24:32
But obviously you know, all things considered, if you're betting an nfl play and the line staying the same, and you're betting a little cross play and the line stays the same of course, a bookmaker would rather see an nfl play well, that's very fair info it's a great point, though, like about how some of these are not on the screen and an agent might just look at it and think it's just you know well, think of it. 

24:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
How would you go back and see lacrosse lines closers from last year? You probably. 

24:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's probably, no, no source that has that right now well, think about like a recent event, like look at the hot dog eating competition, right, which wouldn't be on a screen, and I don't know. I don't want to speak on your behalf, josh, but I know you. Probably, if you're betting on everything, you probably have access to some sharp hot dog stuff as well. If I was an agent and I didn't think anything of the account that I was giving out, right, if I think it's just like a normal guy and I saw some hot dog bets for a couple hundred bucks, I probably would just think like this guy, it's 4th of July, he's de-genning some hot dog stuff once I have a good time. 

25:28 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
It's not like the guy's, like this guy just beat me out of three and a half hot dogs and I'm alive. Don't get me wrong. It could happen and I'm probably more partial to my side of the argument and I do understand there's another side of the argument. So I do understand that and I think both arguments have a good point, uh, but again like I said, like my motivation is I'm trying to win. 

25:52
So I'm, I have. Everybody gives me accounts. I have a responsibility to help them win and, uh, you know, I try and do my best job to make sure that that adds. You know like I'm, I work for them in a sense. 

26:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know what I mean, when do you stand on betting futures? I mean because you talk about an edge being an edge, and if you have a higher edge on, let's say, a smaller sport, you'd rather bet that than a smaller edge on NFL or something. How about futures? We've talked about this for a long time and I think this is another polarizing discussion in terms of whether or not you know you should be tying up your money for a year. Um, you know, I have people reach out to me with, like politics bets that aren't going to settle for like another three years. But they're like Rob, like this is massive, massive edge, Like we need to get down on this. It's like, well, I mean, I could probably roll over so much money in that time with the amount that I'm gonna put here that it's not worth it. So curious whether or not you play futures bets and if that's part of your repertoire. 

26:57 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I actually like futures a lot. I think they're great bets. I do again. There's always two arguments to every every uh topic, but for me personally, I like futures, I think they're. You know, I don't come up with the place myself, but it seems to me that when people send me futures they hit at a really nice rate. I've made a lot of uh I've I've had a lot of decent bet wins off of futures um. But I don't ever play in PPH accounts because you really don't know how long you're going to have the account. I mean, you could have it for a day or you could have it for a year, you don't know. So I typically tend to play futures in casinos. 

27:36
And I will say that I don't think. I think a lot of professionals, like you said, are trying to save up their bankroll, aren't really attacking those types of markets, so I find them to be a good place to be. 

27:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know there is some competition. 

27:53 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
There are certainly some people out there with some money that are willing to throw it down for half a year a year. But I think it's a good market because there's a lot of holes in it and you can make some decent money. I don't think if you're really serious about betting and you're just getting started, I would probably say that you need all the money you could get in your bankroll building years. 

28:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But if you're a dude that has some money, or even if you're not, if you have a really good inkling about something and you have something, that's a fact I feel like you gotta bet it I mean, whenever I said that same stuff as josh I, I did get uh I did get crapped on a little on twitter a bunch of times but, to be honest, like I couldn't agree more with everything you said. Like the only way you bet futures if you bet them at a casino or and also when you basically have a bankroll that you're not going to be able to expend in any capacity and even if you're close to expending it, or it's not even liquid or it's in a different spot or whatever like you need, you probably will have a chance to need the money throughout the next year that you're just going to not want to bet that future and another thing I like about future is so like I don't really get wrapped up in the the day-to-day and like watching games or like checking scores, stuff like that. 

29:12 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Um, but futures I mean they're kind of fun. I like them because you know you, you know the guy, you know whoever I work with. To give me the future is like it's something that you could talk about for like a half a year. You'd be like oh, did you see this play? He did this, he had a good time. You know, he had a good outing. I mean it's kind of fun. You know it keeps. It's something to talk about. You know it's a lot of fun. And then, of course, when you win it, you could post a picture on twitter and brag about it yeah, plus in in addition to the whole huh. 

29:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
no, you're, you're laughing, you're laughing. But like honestly, I will say this If you hit a nice futures bet, like an MVP or something that's like Offensive Player of the Year, coach of the Year, anything NFL or big those are, I wouldn't say it's life-changing money to a guy like you or anything like that, but for the most part it's a big amount. So you do get fired up over it. You're not going to win. You're not winning $1,000. You literally win 100,000, 200,000 in one pop. It's a lot of fun, it's great. I mean, they're fun, I like futures. 

30:07 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I think you know if you're just having fun and you want, or you know you're a professional or whatever, I think they're good as long as you're you know, doing it responsibly. 

30:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Do any of the originators you work with ever come to you and ask you for the screenshot so that they could post it to their own Twitter? 

30:26 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I would say that it probably has happened. I don't know the exact circumstance of when it happened, but just thinking back, it has happened for sure and I don't care. No, of course that's fun. I mean, futures are a lot of fun, People. You know, like I said, you get a lot of bang for your buck on a future. 

30:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, well, I only ask because it's just like a personal story for me too, but a lot of the originators I'm sure you're working with are possibly like undercapitalized or just can't bet the amounts that they want. Like hidden gems, I would call them, where they bet the future themselves, but for a small amount and they want to make it look like they cashed a big amount. So they'll reach out and ask the question, but I'm amazed that your ROI on futures is that high, considering the futures that I've sent to you over the past two or three years. 

31:14 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Well, I don't count you in the repertoire. 

31:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I haven't had that big, big ticket cash with Josh over the years. I want to talk a little bit about the evolution of your operation because it's like you're 23 years old. You called yourself a lackey at that point. Your word's not mine. How is the operation compared now to when you started? I honestly and speak to whatever you want to, but do you work with partners? What happens if you go away for a month on a vacation? Are there people to handle the load? But what kind of scale are we talking about here? 

31:49 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
um, so yeah, I do. I do have partners and and, like I, I have a lot of betting partners and people that give me accounts and and help me, you know, put down bets in casinos. And then I also have partners that help me or I guess we help each other with plays. I have an exceptional team in office that they're incredible. I mean, they're very passionate about what they do and I can always count on them and they're just really solid dudes. You know, I can always count on them and they're they're just really solid dudes. 

32:31
I mean, to get into you know how the, the, the I guess I wouldn't prefer not to say you know, as far as like or small of an operation it is. But I have a really nice team and they, they do a great job and if anybody that has ever dealt with any of them will tell you the same thing they're top-notch guys, they're very professional and they're great at what they do and I'm like, really lucky to have them yeah, we we, by the way, appreciate, like everything that you're sharing with us and there's, you know, obviously there's a line that we want to tow as well and making sure that you're not giving away too much. 

32:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, so, totally understandable In terms of your actual betting. So we know you work with the Regenators. We know that you're doing a lot of bottom up. Are you guys also doing any sort of top down stuff? Because with access to so many accounts, I'm sure on a regular basis you're able to find stuff that just stands out as off market and pick those off. So what percentage, would you say? Or what's the ratio between the bottom up and top down? 

33:27 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I would say that it's small. You know, I might pick off like some NBA injury news or something. If there's a big injury or you know if I know, you know the quarterback's going to be out or something like that. I would tend to go, you know, pretty big on something like that, but for the most part it's not much of that, although I do do it. I just it's it's hard with, at least for me. When I put stuff into accounts I like to know exactly what it is, where it's coming from, who's putting it in Now. 

34:01
If I know that, like Justin Herbert's going to be out, I would put that in all my accounts. I'm not saying that in the past I've known when Justin Herbert was going to be out, but you know, something like that would be warm, you know, I think would be good enough to go on the accounts. Uh, just playing a line because I saw somebody betting it or I know the line's going to move. That's not really my style. That's a good strategy and it works for a lot of people, but it's not really our strategy. So I do like the top to bottom method and I would you know if my circumstances changed or anything ever you know went differently in my life or my career path. Uh, I would certainly adopt that, that type of a method. It's a very good method and I would strongly recommend people that are just like starting out to do that, um, because the lines are pretty efficient, if you can get on the right side of lines. 

34:55
I mean, you're, you know you may not win, but you, you know over time I don't. I think you probably wouldn't lose much. So I think it's a pretty safe place to be, assuming you're managing your bankroll correctly. 

35:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It seems to me like when people start off in the States. 

35:13 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
One of the biggest issues that they have is managing the bankroll. 

35:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What advice would you give to anyone who's so? Here's what I actually want, not someone who's starting out. So someone who, let's say, they understand everything, they understand a lot about betting, they're actually just starting to win might be undercapitalized. Let's say they have um 50 000 bankroll right now. What's your best advice for someone at that stage? 

35:38 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
well, I would say you know, stay in your lane and and try not to do too much and just make sure you have enough money to cover your ass. And then I would make sure that you're you know, if you're dealing with people, that you're very careful with the amounts of money that they owe you, because it's you know it's tough out there. I mean, people don't always pay. I mean you got to be real careful about who owes you money and how much they owe you. And you know, do these people have history is? Did anybody vouch for him? Did uh, you know appearances? 

36:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
are deceiving. 

36:15 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I mean a lot of people seem like they're really great and a lot of people seem like they're really stand-up guys and people might even have some nice things to say about them, but at the end of the day, is the guy going to drop off the money? 

36:26
You know, you always have to be careful because you know if you have a $50,000 bank or, like you said, and some dude owes you $30,000 and he says you know he gives you an excuse or comes up lame on you. Well, you're kind of fucked now, so you're kind of fucked now. So it's my, my best advice is just be to be careful and be careful who you work with and make sure you do your best to not put yourself in a situation to get to get fucked. 

36:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So that's very interesting for me to hear you say that, because I think that you have a reputation in the space, whether this is true or not, I think that there's a reputation that you're the type of guy that will take a chance quote unquote on working with someone, maybe someone who doesn't have someone who could vote for them, someone who just started originating and has no, you know, has never worked with another betting group before. But they might say, hey, I know I can beat this sport. So I'm just curious if you want to talk a little bit more about that. But specifically, what do you look for in working with new people and whether or not you think that that, uh, reputation and honestly, this is just my perspective, but I've heard other people say that as well. Before I'll talk to j he's the easier guy or whatever. If that's a fair descriptor of you, no, that's very fair. 

37:47 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
And the difference between me is that you know I'm in a situation where I can take some risks, and that's kind of my job is to take some risks and to see what's out there. I mean, I've read, I've rechanged my, my strategy and the things that I've done a lot of times, and you know I'm my ears are always open and my eyes are always open and I'm always looking for, you know, people that are are good at what they do and, and you know, along with that comes risks. I mean, it's it's not always a, it's not always a a slam dunk it. You know it's not always a slam dunk. You know sometimes it's not going to work out, sometimes it works out exceptionally well, but you know we're all gambling here, we're not you know I'm not just gambling on. 

38:31
You know the stuff I put in. I'm also gambling on people. I mean, it's really a job that's based through networking and counting on people and trying to have to find out the hard way if they're good or not. It doesn't always work out. Now I will say this I will take risks on people, but I won't you know, when I'm starting with somebody new and I'm trying to kind of see what what they got going on, I'm not going to fire their stuff into any accounts I have. I mean, I might go out of my way to play it in some casinos or go out of ways where it's not going to affect anybody. That I, you know, is counting on me to eat. 

39:05
Right so how are you vetting someone like a new let's say a new partner to give an account and also a new originator? So a person giving an account, I mean I would probably just take the account you know, regardless of who it is. Now my DM is going to be filled with dudes that want to give me accounts. They're going to scam me. One account, yeah, one account, you know well, yeah, sorry, the guy died. Yeah, it's over, yeah, uh, but I mean you take a risk like if it's a. 

39:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If a guy hit me up and was like hey, I got a fifty thousand dollar credit line you give that five thousand a game I'd probably be like. 

39:37 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
You know that's a it doesn't seem realistic. I'm probably not going to do that, unless you want to give me some money up front or something like that. But if the guy gives you an account or two and they're smaller accounts, I mean what's really the worst that's going to happen? You set the account to stop when it's up like $400 or $500, see if the guy pays, and then you decide to move on with your life or see if the guy's worth anything, but you have to take some chances. 

40:08
You know, I mean that's what it's all about really. I mean and it's just not just sports betting either I mean, if you're doing anything in the world, you got to take some chances. You know, I mean that's what it's all about, that's that's the american dream. You got to take some chances the american. 

40:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's go and canadian dream and the canadian dream sorry, I, I didn't mean anything no, no, no, it's okay, totally, totally acceptable. 

40:24
Um, one of my favorite episodes that we ever did was a q, a episode um, which is titled uh, what to do when a co-worker stiffs you, because it was a question that came in from a listener of the show that said hey, I have this situation here and he, he outlined it point by point by point and I go and I work with this guy every day and it's overlapping and it's pissing me off and I don't know what to do, and we gave our take on it. This is a very realistic situation in the sports betting space, as you're saying, where stiffs happen, slow pays happen. You don't have to name names. I'm not looking for that or anything like that. 

41:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He is looking for it if you're willing to give it though. 

41:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, sure, if you want to. I'm not going to stop you from giving out names, but I'm very curious how you handle slow pays stiffs, especially when these people don't go into hiding, like when they still keep their public profile out there. Are you a vindictive guy? Do you blow these guys up, put them on notice? Do you just like silently, keep to yourself, hoping that eventually they'll come through? It's just a random, hypothetical question, but I'm curious what your take is I might have a conversation with somebody. 

41:33 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
You know if, like you and I, were chatting in private, I might be like, yeah, such and such is kind of being a scumbag or something like that. But it is, you know, I try. You know sports betting is a tight knit network and and I, I really try hard to get along with everybody. 

41:48
So like, as far as that goes, I'm kind of like Switzerland. I'm I don't want anything to do Like, I want to stay in the middle. You know you need friends out here, like you, you. You don't need enemies. It's hard enough as it is. You know you don't want to give people reasons not to like you and I tend to try and keep my mouth shut. But you know, having said that, I mean if somebody stiffs you, you got to kind of ask around and be like, hey, you know what's going on with this guy, you know what the deal is. 

42:16
I'm having a hard time getting money from them, and that's kind of how you got to figure out how bad the guys you know the guys in cause you know the chances are. If somebody is giving you a hard time about getting paid, they're also giving somebody else a hard time, you know, but it happens. I mean you're gonna again. You got to take some risks. Some, some people are going to kind of come up lame on you and you know I'm I'm more cool about it. I mean, what are you going to do? I mean, it's 2023, and you know, I mean what are you going to do? Threaten the guy? It's just there's not much you can really do. 

42:51
I'm not going to send like goons to his house or anything. It's just you've got to just try and be cool and manage the situation you have. You know. You know you got to try and be reasonable. I mean there's a guy right now that owes me money and I hit him up every monday morning and I have for, you know, the last 26 weeks and he's always like oh yeah, this thursday, and it never comes in. It never comes in. But I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna stop sending the guy the message, because the second you stop sending the guy the message, as far as he's concerned, it's done how, uh, how elaborate did the excuses get? 

43:22
you're listening to this pay me yeah, what's the funniest excuse you've got like give us some sample funny ones they're all the same man. 

43:32
It's always like you know. I mean some guys will just be honest to be like dude, I'm fucking, I'm broke, I can't, you know, and that that, in my opinion, is more genuine than saying you know, like my mom died or you know. So you know, and that that, in my opinion, is more genuine than saying you know, like my mom died or you know, you know there's a million excuses, but it's going to happen. I mean, it's inevitable, but you just have to. You got to be careful. I mean especially for guys, like you said, like guys starting out, like you really have to be careful because the people I mean there's some great people in the world and I'm really fortunate, I work with some awesome people and I know a lot of awesome people but man, I mean, there's some scumbags out there Like you, you gotta be careful Like people fuck you over. 

44:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
They don't care what are your thoughts on the whole. I can't pay you because this guy owes me. 

44:26 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Well, again, yeah, I mean that's. That's a tough one. I I would he stole you the money, in my opinion. But at the same time, it's hard to get money out of people that don't have any money. You shouldn't be dealing with somebody that would give you that excuse. I mean, if you should know your, your customer, a little bit better than to think he would do that. And when I say customer, I mean like I wouldn't do business with a betting partner that would, uh, that I would think he would do that. And when I say customer, I mean like I wouldn't do business with a betting partner that I would think would pull that line on me. 

44:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That, in my opinion, is the worst of the excuses. Like, in my opinion, I would rather you go out of your way to manufacture the most elaborate dumb excuse that I know is not true. Like I've had people send me wristbands like pictures of them in the hospital with like wristbands on, but like the name isn't even the same as their real name, like stuff like that, where they they try to make it seem but the, the. I can't pay you because this guy didn't pay me. So either either you go get him, you get collect directly from him, or you're not getting the money. 

45:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Or see ya like too bad, it's not my problem, and they actually think they're doing nothing wrong. 

45:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's the thing they convince themselves that they're in the right. It's like I don't have to pay you anymore because this guy didn't pay me. That, to me, is worse than anything. 

45:39 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I'm really fortunate, though, honestly, like really fortunate. I mean, most of the dudes I work with are really solid and I don't lose any sleep over not getting paid. Again, it's going to happen. I mean, it's inevitable. You're dealing with money, you're dealing with people that are making poor decisions, but I, I, I I really don't run into it that often, but, again, I'm pretty smart about managing the risk too, you know do you have some really memorable bets, like ones that stick with you forever. 

46:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You remember exactly where you were when it happened, or just like a massive cash or maybe a massive loss. I know a lot of better bettors remember like the biggest loss. Is there any one, two, any, any bets that just really stick with you? 

46:26 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
there's, there's probably three that I can remember that were really good. Um, when I was kind of coming up I must have been like 23 or 24, I was at the Westgate, what used to be called the Hilton at the time it was called the Hilton and my buddy was there and they were playing Duke was playing Boston College, and I didn't really have any money at this time. I mean, I was still kind of learning and I was still kind of a lackey. I guess you'd say, uh, um, boston College was like plus 5,000 on the money line and my buddy's, like man, I think they could win, and I was just like all right, whatever, I'll throw 300 bucks on it and it sure enough it won. 

47:06
And I I mean like I won 15 g's and I was like 23 years old and that's probably like 30 in today's money, you know yeah, and I was just like man, this is so cool and I had no business even making that, but it wasn't even sharp. 

47:20
I mean I just got lucky, you know. But it I mean the timing like it probably really changed my life. You know, like that was. You know, I probably, I probably doubled my bankroll at the time. You know what I mean and it wasroll at the time, you know what I mean, and it was like sheer luck. And I just remember watching the game and I was like holy cow. 

47:37
I just won 15 Gs and that was really cool, I mean. So that wasn't like the biggest bet I ever won, but at the time I mean like pound for pound, like when you're talking about your bankroll, that was the biggest bet I ever won because my bankroll literally doubled. 

47:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, bankroll doubler, it was a double. 

47:56 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
So yeah, I mean, you know it was so cool man. I just remember picking up the money and I was driving on the strip. I'm like, I'm the fucking man, but I wasn't I just you know, that's what I was feeling at the time. 

48:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's awesome, what else you got. 

48:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So you had said, yeah, rob here, by the way, has to question your early life bankroll management. By the way, if you're betting, if you're betting 2% of bankroll on a, on a plus 5,000 dog, I don't know. 

48:26 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Yeah. 

48:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But you're in Las Vegas, You're hanging out Like I could have taken 300 and went to Spearmint Rhino, but I did the responsible thing and put it on Bucket List. Yeah, plus if you factor in the free drink you got over the drink tickets on the counter then, deduct that. Yeah, yeah, no, Rob I. 

48:40 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
It was very bad, but I mean it wasn't like I wasn't going to be able to eat or anything. You know it was. It worked out, it was awesome. And then, uh, the second one, the worst loss I ever had. Uh, which I think I've tweeted about, but it was tony finow. Excuse me if I said the guy's name wrong. Uh, it was when he was playing in the masters. It was maybe like seven or eight years ago. And, uh, he was playing like in the par three tournament before before the actual masters and he was like jumping up and down because he had all in1 in his like ankle season His ankle yeah. 

49:13
And I was like oh, I'm going to bet all these matchups Like this guy. There's no way this guy's going to play. He's probably going to tee off and like have to get carried back to locker room. And of course I think he went on to, like you know, finish like seventh or something, probably the biggest loss I've ever had. And then one of the best wins I've ever had was when Andrew Luck retired. So I think I found out pretty early that he was going to retire and it was like a couple weeks before the. 

49:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
NFL. 

49:43 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
So they were still doing preseason and people had all the lines up for week one and I just kind of walked around and was just playing. I don't remember exactly, but I want to say I had like minus three and a half and plus seven or something and, um, I was able to. I was able to walk around, you know, with impunity because nobody's paying attention to this stuff and I was going casino to casino betting it uh, just loaded up on bets and then I you know it was at plus seven, so I played back some on the middle, and then they uh they ended up winning by six and or I think they were playing the chargers, maybe I don't know. 

50:17
Sorry if my story doesn't add up, but they ended up winning by six in overtime and I hit both sides and that was that was um. That was probably the best, most memorable win not in comparison like the first one, but it was. It was probably the most money ever won. 

50:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, it wasn't a bankroll doubler, but it fits the most you've ever won. 

50:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Your memory is very good, by the way. So week one 2019, the Colts lost an OT to the Chargers 30-24. Chargers won by six, so you nailed it. 

50:46 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
That was it, and it was pretty cool, so you played Chargers minus three and a half colts plus seven on the playback nice yeah, and normally like people would pay attention to that. 

50:55
So if I were to do something like that during the week, you know, during a normal nfl season, people would be like, oh you know why is it max bets coming in here and they'd move their line and adjust. But I just think because, um, it was like a couple weeks before the season started, like nobody was really paying any attention and it was, it was pretty, it worked out pretty well, it was solid, so that. So I would say those are my top three most memorable experiences with betting. 

51:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, what's the most you ever won in a single day? 

51:23 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
No chance. I'm telling you that. 

51:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Hey, if you don't ask, if you don't ask, you can't get the answer. 

51:30 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
That's fair. That's my philosophy. You always have to ask and you always have to try, but I'm just not going to tell you. 

51:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That was a dude, plus 5,000 to get answered. 

51:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will say and I won't say the number, but I remember the first thing you ever said to me, Josh and me and Frank sitting at the bar we're talking about a specific pick service, really struggling at the bar, were talking about a specific pick service, really struggling at the time and that's when you leaned over and said to me I've lost x amount of dollars following that pick service this year and that one is. That was when I was like holy shit, this guy is a is a heavy hitter. Won't disclose the number, but I I do remember it and yeah, I think there's. 

52:13 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
And, to be fair, I think, when I said that that was the amount that I lost in Las Vegas and you know, to be fair, I played a lot of that back, so it wasn't like a total net loss to me. But I remember, you know, at the time I was working with a guy in Las Vegas and I just kept having to reload because we just kept getting crushed there, even though we were, you know, arguing some of it. 

52:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I thought you were going to say that was Rob. Just so you know. That was the amount I lost. 

52:37 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Only in Las Vegas. 

52:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It was 10 times more than that. 

52:41 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Well, at the time, there was no other illegals. I mean Las Vegas or well. Nevada was the only place you could play in 2000,. You know, 2017 or whenever it was we met. 

52:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, that was the only that was the only show in town um, sorry to like just bring personal experiences into this matter, but just curious if you remember who we ran into at the bar that night um that you were having some drinks with oh man, I honestly don't remember. 

53:07 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I mean, that was a a while ago. 

53:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was a coach in a major sport. 

53:13 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Oh yeah, yeah, Dusty Baker. I think that was a different time, though. 

53:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Maybe the next year. But I remember like I don't know how the world works sometimes, because I remember I was ranting about Dusty Baker that day and I'm like this guy doesn't know how to put out an MLB lineup, like what's wrong with him or whatever. Don't we run into Dusty Baker that night Like I don't know how that works? 

53:40 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Dusty Baker was an incredible guy, by the way. We were sitting at that like little Mexican joint and we were like I'm like you know, I obviously have to ask a dumb question. I'm like you know I obviously have to have to ask the dumb question like are you, are you dusty baker? He's like yeah, no, and he, he was cool. I mean he, he really played it up and he, he uh wasn't shy and he told us some good stories. I mean it was kind of funny because we were telling him he bet on sports. And he's like you know what? He's like you know what baseball is all about? 

54:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it's, it's all about the pitcher and I'm like thanks, dusty, it's all about the pitcher and I'm like. 

54:11 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
thanks, Dusty. 

54:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's all about the pitch Did he give you? 

54:14 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
any. Bring this back home to the lab and make millions. 

54:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There you go, there you go. Another question I had for you was you know, I actually hate when people ask this question, but for you I think it's different, because you've gotten to a certain level of success is like if you could redo it, uh, right now, would you pursue sports betting still? 

54:37 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Totally, I love sports betting. Like it's hard to say how your life would have turned out or like what would have happened, but I'm really fortunate man. I mean I'm, you know, I. I get to interact with a lot of awesome people every day. I get to wake up and make my kids breakfast. Uh, I'm, you know, I get to interact with a lot of awesome people every day. I get to wake up and make my kids breakfast. I get to make my own schedule. You know, I just had a. I've just been really fortunate, honestly. I mean the people that I work with are like amazing and. 

55:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I wouldn't trade it for anything. 

55:06 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
honestly, I wouldn't even take a job making more money. That's how much I love it, you know. 

55:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I love that answer and I respect it, and anytime anyone's asked me that I always say the same, which is I would. I would recommend you get into sports betting now if you're passionate about it, because it's too much that people are just saying right now like, oh no, it's hard, it's like your accounts get limited, it's hard to win, it's hard to sustain, it's a lot of work. But they don't realize that that's literally every single industry there's, that there's those challenges or equivalent in any single job you're going to ever have. 

55:37
So the one you love is typically going to be the one for you. 

55:40 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Yeah, I mean by the end of March is, like you know, my brain popping out of my head. Yeah, cause I mean I'm, I'm beat up. I mean it's tough, I mean it can be tough, but at the end of the day, you know we are who, we are, we got, you know we're here and it's fun. I mean it really is fun. I mean I, you know, I met you guys, I meet all sorts of people, everybody's pretty cool and you know it's a, it's a fun club to be in. I mean it really is. 

56:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So on that frame. Sorry to cut you off on that frame because now we're talking you wouldn't do it. But here's the real question. You mentioned your age at the beginning of the pod. When do you hang them up? When is it time to call it quits? 

56:17 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Man, you know that's really tough and I think about that because I don't really ever want to quit, I mean. 

56:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm having too much fun. 

56:27 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
What the hell else am I going to? 

56:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
do. Well, I've seen your golf golf game, so you might want to improve on on that a little bit more, okay we'll see you the next time. 

56:37 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Big money next time how much golf can you play? I mean, you need to do something to keep your mind going. I mean, you always hear people say they're like. You know the the number one cause of death is retirement. You know like what? You always have to be doing something. I feel like I don't know. You know. I guess the thing that does worry me is that I suppose at some point, if you're a sports better, you know you could lose. You know your sharpness and you you could be old enough to the point where you don't really know what the fuck you're doing, but you're still doing it. I thought about that before. You know like you, you, you you're old, you know and and you know, you just hope, somebody would tell you at that point like hey, josh, you suck, it was a nice run, it's time. 

57:18
It's time to hang them up. But I mean, as long as I feel like I'm healthy and I, you know, I I feel like I have an edge, I don't know why I would ever hang it up because it's fun. I mean, it's a it's a fun job. But you know, it is a lot of work, but at the end of the day, what else am I going? 

57:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
to do. 

57:38 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I mean, yeah, I could golf, but there's still, you know, another 20 hours in the day, so would you ease it up though? 

57:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Would you be like all right, I'm not, I'm going to take off whatever March, march to September. 

57:53 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
So I going to take off, um, whatever march, march to september. So I have eased it up and I've delegated a lot more responsibilities to my team as of recently. Um, and I just can't say enough how phenomenal they are, um, but I have eased up a bit. You know, I used to. I used to work a lot. I mean, I used to work from sun up to sun down. You know I missed some soccer games. It was tough, but I don't regret it. Now I tend to go to the soccer game. 

58:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
When you miss some soccer games, you mean your kids' soccer games, or you couldn't stay up that late to bet some overnight soccer. 

58:24 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
In theory, you miss some of your kids' stuff Because when you're building your business you have to make sacrifices sometimes, unfortunately, unfortunately. You know people you care about are the ones you know that that suffer. You know I will. I will say this I'm not trying to pat my back, I'm a good dad, but you know, sometimes you have to make a decision. Or you know, are you going to sit there on a Saturday and grind football all day or are you going to go to your two-kid soccer games? Like? You have to make a decision. It's not an easy one to make and when you're younger and you're trying to establish yourself and you're trying to make money, sometimes you've got to stay home and do it. I mean it's tough, but those are hard decisions you've really got to make. So you know but now I feel really confident in the abilities of the team that we have that I don't necessarily always need to be there. 

59:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So let me ask you this then let's say you use a low number just for simplicity. But let's say you expect that your projected profit on a Saturday, with you working, is you're going to make an additional one thousand dollars, or additional one hundred dollars, to make an additional $1,000 or additional $100. Okay, just for simplicity. When you then say, okay, I'm going to go to my kid's soccer game, are you now thinking of it as like it's costing me $100 to go to my kid's soccer game. 

59:41 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
So I don't think in terms of that, believe it or not. I think in terms of like, if I was ever in a situation where I'm like you know what the account holders are suffering and we need to re-strategize or there's something that we're missing here, or like to be honest, I don't really ever think about the money. 

59:57
I mean, obviously money is an important thing you need money to operate, you have to have the bankroll. But my number one focus always is like, okay, you know, I would maybe step in or, you know, in Mississippi, if we were doing poorly or we needed to re-strategize or get something new going and I needed to pay attention to stuff, then I would be more inclined to be like, all right, I need, I need to probably be around more and just see what's going on and and that sort of thing. But it would never. It would never be about the money, unless I was getting absolutely hammered because there's limitations to all these things. You're, you know're, you're not living and dying every day by the amount of money you bet. 

01:00:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And then you got to think about whether or not you're going to do an edible at the soccer game as well and kill another three or four hours afterwards, right. 

01:00:38 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Well, that's the party after the soccer game. All the parents. 

01:00:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There you go. I mean there's a social element to it as well. I mean I completely get it, I mean it's, I think it's. I mean this is just my personal opinion, but once you achieve like a level of success and again, not like, not don't want to come off as like conceited or anything, but you're very, you're well, you've done well for years, josh, at betting on sports. So sometimes it might be easier to sacrifice a day, a Saturday, college basketball yeah, there's going to be a ton of money on the table, but you know what? I'd rather spend it with my family versus someone who might need to grind a little bit harder. So I think you're afforded with the luxury of being able to make those decisions just based off of the success that you've had. 

01:01:27 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Yeah, but I mean like again somebody starting off new. Yeah, but I mean like again somebody's starting off new. I mean I would say like buckle up, because it's not easy, like you're not just going to sit there and people are going to give you free money. It doesn't work. You got, you're going to have to make some sacrifices. 

01:01:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's not like you know people say, when you bet on sports like oh you what a great job, blah, blah. 

01:01:42 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I mean, there's a lot of sacrifice, just like and that's just like any job, you know, if you're a salesman or a teacher or firefighter, whatever like you're going to have to make sacrifice. People are counting on you to show up to work. You can't just call Like if you're a teacher. You can't just call and be like I think I'm going to go to the pool with my friends a day. 

01:01:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It doesn't work like that, you got to show up to work. 

01:02:00 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
People have to know they can count on you and it's not like a glamorous thing. Now I have fun the relationships that I have with people and I get to talk to dudes like you all the time and it's fun. But uh, you're gonna have to if you want to be a professional sports better, like you're gonna have to sit in the chair like buy yourself a good chair I'm serious, that's actually great advice that's probably the plus ev move of the week if we we'll get into it. 

01:02:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But wow, is that? Is that a good move? 

01:02:27 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
yeah, buy a good chair here chair, chair, because you're going to need it. 

01:02:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I've switched to the gamer chairs recently, or actually it was a couple of years ago now. We got like these office chairs in studio or whatever, but I love the gamer chair with like the headrest and like the cushion back there. Honestly, it is no one's ever said this on the pod, by the way, I don't think in like any piece of betting advice, but it's actually one of the best pieces. Like your setup is so important. Like even just the way you look at your screens and the angle, and like if it's, if it's too high on one day like you just get like a crick in your neck and you're you're fucked for like weeks Setup is huge. 

01:03:06 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I mean, go to like buy a mattress, and the guys in there trying to get you to buy a mattress like, well, you spend a third of your life in bed. Well, if you're a sports better, you better get yourself a chair. 

01:03:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, are you a standing desk guy at all, or no, what's up? Are you a standing desk guy at all? 

01:03:22 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I'm not a standing desk. I mean I have tried it, but like you know it's not. 

01:03:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
for me it's not the same. 

01:03:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

01:03:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right. 

01:03:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I tried a couple months of yoga ball chair. I like the yoga ball. The yoga ball is decent. It's okay. It forces you to sit a little bit more upright so there's less pain. But once those gamer chairs they started really perfecting those, I don't think I could ever go back. 

01:03:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Do you have any other, any other pieces, pieces of advice for anyone in the betting community right now that you think you know a lot of the listeners here might be able to leverage and learn from? 

01:04:01 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
you know, it's just like I said, it's a lot of hard work, but if you, if you're in it and you're passionate about it, I don't I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I don't think it's that hard to win if you're really passionate about it and you put some time in and you can quantify your thought to be something reasonable. I mean, obviously people win at different levels and there's definitely people that are better than others, but if you're just a regular dude, if you sit down and think about something I think you can. 

01:04:33
you can come up with some reasons Also. I mean there's a lot of the people I meet are offline like I'll kind of snoop around Twitter. I mean there are some people out there that are really, really good that might be to other people. So you may not be the best at some things, but you know, maybe you could help somebody with another thing you know. 

01:05:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Ask around questions could help somebody with another thing you know, ask around questions ask. 

01:05:12 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
You know, if you're there and you're willing to, like, do some work or you're willing to, you know, be a part of a team and you're not a jerk, uh, people pick you up. I mean, you know, people are always looking for good guys. People are always looking for, you know, people to help them in certain ways. Um, people like to communicate with each other. They're open. You know, if you see somebody you like or want to talk to on twitter, I'm sure if you dm, dm them I would say there's an 80 chance they'll get back to you. 

01:05:35
Um, you just gotta keep your eyes and ears open and, uh, you know it's just. It's a little bit of work, that's all I would add great advice. 

01:05:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I would also add to that just like, keep up a good reputation, because, um, it's, it's a small uh space that we're in right now. So, for example, if, like, josh might want to work someone and he says like hey, johnny, like you know this guy, like if I know, if I know you and you kind of like did something about me, I'm just going to tell josh like ah, you know what actually like didn't work out, and now he's going to take my word over yours and now you don't get the opportunity to work and that might be something small you might've did to me or Rob or someone else in the space. So, just keep a good reputation, because it very much does travel quick. And that could even be like snap paying, slow paying, like like, oh, that guy owed me $300 and he didn't pay for three weeks. Like, okay, well, probably not worth it to work with this guy, exactly. 

01:06:26 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I do think that I mean obviously your reputation will carry you a long way If you do the right by people and you pay and you're nice to people that'll take you a long way in this business honestly. I mean it sounds pretty stupid, but I mean just to get somebody who's pleasant to be around or talk to, that pays or makes smart decisions. I mean, that's really all you're looking for totally agree. 

01:06:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know you gave us a great piece of uh plus ev advice in terms of getting yourself a great chair. If you're a sports, better we need a piece of minus ev. Um, anything in life doesn't have to be related to sports betting, but something that you consider to be minus Evie. 

01:07:19 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Minus Evie I don't know wasting time. You know like you get. You know you get older and you think about all the things you did. Wasting time you know like playing games on your phone or going on Instagram. I mean I try and really not do that stuff that much, but at the same token it's fun. People need some entertainment. Exercise. Take care of your body. 

01:07:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's minus EB. 

01:07:46 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
No, I would say, if you're not doing that, it's minus EB. 

01:07:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
See, I told you. Yeah, you can just flip it around, say no. I would say, if you're not doing that, it's minus cbc. I told you yeah, you can just flip it around, I know it's you can just flip around and it's positive or minus. 

01:07:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I like that one a lot. I've been. Uh, you know, health, I think, is more important than people. Uh, you know, why would you? Why would you want to get fat and like? Why would you want to just damage your body? 

01:08:03 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
it's crazy I mean, even just do a little exercise, it makes you feel way better every day. 

01:08:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know, it doesn't take much so I guess our oh, go ahead, josh, I already cut you off just you know, I minus ev, I don't know. 

01:08:17 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Uh, there's a lot of minus ev, I think. But you know, don't take drugs I don't know, fair enough. 

01:08:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So our last question and uh, it was a pleasure having you on, by the way, we want to thank you for taking the time. I know you you haven't done, you know, public interviews or anything like that. So we're happy to get the debut out here and I know this one's going to be an instant classic on the Circles Off channel. But our final question, which we ask to every guest, is if you can go back five years just a measly five years and give yourself a piece of advice. What would it be? So we are talking August of 2018. 

01:08:56 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
Yeah, you know it's hard. I feel like the last five years has been really solid for me. I don't know that I would change much. I mean I've, I've done a good job betting and meeting new people and maintaining relationships, and then I also feel like my family life has been really solid. But if I, I guess, if I could change that, maybe, if I, maybe if I could go back like 10 or 15 years, I probably wouldn't have wasted as much time partying. I feel like I I wasted a lot of time doing that when I could have been doing more meaningful things. But I'm not saying I regretted it, I was fun. But you know, a lot, of, a lot of time wasted. I, I, I try not to. I I try to keep myself busy and do things that are meaningful at this point, um, but um, as far as from like betting, I really think I've made a decent amount of good decisions, um, but maybe, maybe, uh, I could have worked a little harder or something. I don't know. 

01:09:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know what. It's good asking someone who was like you know what I actually have thought about this and I don't. I like my life in the past five years, cause that's probably when you can actually get a real lesson. It's like it all about then. Well, like what is it is would you have done? Is it more family? Is it more betting? Is it less like? 

01:10:15 - Juan Martinez (@callcutservice) (Guest)
I. I will say this like I don't know compared to most other sports bettors, but I like as soon as I turn off the computer, I'm done doing whatever I'm doing, it's 100 family. 

01:10:24
So I really make that a uh, you know, a priority. So when I'm done I'm going family. You know that. That's, that's it, cause they, they, you know kids need a dad and they need their dad to be around and that's, you know, really important. So, you know, I I do feel like I do a good job of managing my time and, you know, spending time with family, friends, loved ones, and then also getting my work done. 

01:10:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast, josh. You can follow him on Twitter at ColcussService, twitter X. Whatever Professional sports better, true OG. If you enjoyed this pod today, make sure you smash that like button. This was a great conversation overall. Subscribe to Circles Off if you're not subscribed already, and this is airing while we're at Bet Bash Myself. Johnny. Josh gonna be in attendance If you watch the interview at any time over the course of the day, stop by, say hello to Josh, introduce yourself. It's a pretty big community of sports bettors that are collecting all together and it's nice to put faces to, to names and so on and so forth and get to know one another. So introduce yourself if you're there, josh. Appreciate you joining us for everyone out there. We'll catch you next week see you care man. 

01:11:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yes, thank you.