00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off. I'm joined in studio by G-Stack George. He's going to break down his history as a bettor and how he got to be the host of 90 Degrees right here on the Circles Off channel. Also, we're going to discuss this new BetPod ratings account on Twitter, how it's rating, who it might be and, of course, a BetBash recap. I was there just over a week ago. We'll all that, my experience there, all that and more this week. 

00:25
Circles off starts now. Come on, let's go. Welcome to circles off, episode number 116, right here on the hammer betting network. I'm rob isola, joined by g stack. George. Thank you for having me, no problem. 

00:40
A lot of people might be wondering no, johnny, today johnny's one of the hardest working guys I actually know. I say that in all seriousness and truth. He's recharging his batteries before football season, um, and we will have him back in the near future to do episodes. But who better than george to have in studio here, I think? Uh, we've gotten some commentary, george, in the past about people not knowing who you are, your story being a little bit mysterious. So we're going to get to that today. But, as usual with circles off, we do start with the numbers Number 16. I have a very old one of the first jerseys I ever got, okay, a Vinny Testaverde number 16 jersey. We are born on the exact same day in the exact same year, like one hospital apart, basically. So it's very interesting how just like things come together. But I remember the Monday night miracle from my youth, like it was yesterday. So do I? You remember the same game? 

01:42 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Yeah, that game taught me the greatest lesson of life that the game is not over until you get to triple zeros. And that put a scar on me forever and I will never celebrate until the game is officially done triple zeros, no matter how big the lead. That game early in my life taught me that lesson. 

02:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So I had to look it up to make sure that I actually remembered it correctly. But it was 34th quarter points, yes, from the new york jets. The jets and dolphins were like in a. I think they're battling for the afc east that year, so it was actually a really big game. But the the funniest thing about the game were like the quotes over the course of the game from the commentators about it being over. I think arnold schwarzenegger was on that broadcast and he actually predicted that the Jets would come back. Yeah, of course he did, and of course obviously it's a no-lose situation at that point but they actually did come back and I remember I got a Vinny Testaverde jersey after that game. 

02:41 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Why Did you make money on it or you became a fan. I was always a Cowboys fan, but obviously the Italian roots jersey. 

02:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
After that game. Why did you make money on it or you became a fan? I was just like I was like always a cowboys fan, but obviously the italian roots. Vinnie testa verde. He was like a guy that I wanted to cheer for as well. So, uh, that was. That was just like one of the first jersey. I don't even know what happened to that jersey at some point. I'm sure my dad just tossed it oh he left it at my parents house when I moved out, and it's's just somewhere Hopefully someone has it. 

03:04 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I have a buddy who does that. Whenever he bets a future, he buys a jersey of that team and he adopts them as his team and he rides it all the way and he's got the jersey. He's like I'm in the mode man. 

03:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I mean, I've never been a jerseys guy, by the way, same, Even when I was young. Part of them was like this is like whatever. This is me just stating I like tighter fitting clothing. I'm like a skinny guy. I've always kind of liked that. I don't like loose fitting clothing and I've always been skinny. You just can't find like tighter fitting jerseys. 

03:37
That's not what jerseys are they're meant to have stuff on underneath jerseys don't fit for our body types. Rob, everybody in the middle are enjoying it, but you and I were left out of the jersey game for sure. Um joe montana, famous number 16 as well. Uh, I remember pat lafontaine as a 16 and I only bring that up because rick jennerette, who is actually one of my favorite hockey broadcast, not just hockey broadcasters of all time, but like broadcasters recently passed away with some of like the most memorable calls, but one of them being like the la, la, la, la fontaine I can't I can't really do it justice, but I think that's one of the best calls in the history of sports I got one for you. 

04:12 - G-Stack George (Guest)
What's the classic? Uh locker room guys having a hack in the dart at halftime. Len dawson len dawson he was 16 and he was hacking the dart in the middle of the in the locker room at halft. I go, that's my guy right there. It's the classic. 

04:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Mario Bellatelli as well from the Italian national team. 

04:28 - Zack Phillips (Other)
You'd be doing a disservice if you didn't say Darcy. 

04:30 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Tucker, darcy Tucker, for the Leafs fan base, for sure. Jake Plummer was another 16 that I recall. The like most everyone always thought like Plummer had like this big upside he was going to turn into something and he just, he just never, really did. He's exciting to watch, though for a while, probably because he he must've had one in one year where he threw like 25 interceptions. Yeah, he had chaos to his game, that that scramble around like Play action like roll out to the right, heave it downfield and, just like pray, something happens. 

04:59 - G-Stack George (Guest)
You know who could be like that Then I'm not being hyperbolic because I watched it last night, but Sam Howell's got a little bit of chaos to his game where. Scramble around, make something happen, good or bad. Doc Gooden wore a 16 for the Mets and the reason I remember him is the famous story that he was so high during the World Series parade he never actually made it. Oh wow, he was. After they won he went to a drug dealer's house to do some hardcore drugs and he ends up watching the World Series parade high around a bunch of people doing drugs. And I'm like that when I saw his 30 for 30 was one of the craziest stories. 

05:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That is a pretty crazy story. I didn't know any of that at all. I think we filled our quota of numbers for Joey Kanish, who asks for us to do this on a weekly basis. I know he's messaged before and told me it's his oh damn, I'm in his bad books now. 

05:52
His favorite segment is listening to us just randomly rhyme off players that we can remember that wore that number of the episode. We're going to get into George's background, but before we do, I do want to remind you that Pinnacle is the world's sharpest sportsbook and available to bettors in Ontario. We often preach line shopping here on Circles Off. I think that's one of the most critical aspects to betting. I would never consider betting without Pinnacle being one of my sportsbook accounts because of the everyday competitive odds that they have of my sportsbook accounts, because of the everyday competitive odds that they have. Betsmart, betpinnacle, your trusted sportsbook, and use code HAMMER when signing up. It does help us support us here at Circles Hoff. Again, use code HAMMER when you sign up to Pinnacle. You must be 19 plus, not available in the US, licensed in Ontario and, as always, of course, please play responsibly. All right, right, george, we're gonna get into it here. Uh, a few weeks ago it's, I guess more than a month ago uh, we had this account startup on twitter, bpr. Yeah, at bet pod ratings, which has taken the twitter verse by storm, and what bet pod ratings is? We're to get into this a little bit later into the episode, but someone we don't know who. I have my suspicions we'll talk about that a little bit but someone who's reviewing sports betting podcasts out there, and typically they give a brief summary of the podcast, then a rating and then a yes or no at the end, and then a yes or no at the end. 

07:26
That might be the giveaway as to who it could be, but on August 1st I hate to throw you under the bus here. I'm just reading it quote for quote. Go for it. It was your interview with Captain Jack right here on the Circles Off channel, and you can get that interview down below in the description if you do want to see it. I personally thought it was an excellent interview, thank you, but it got a three out of 10 and a no rating. Specifically, though, poor interviewing by GSG oh wow, whose actual source of income remains unclear. So we have to clear this up for people. Yeah, we brought you on to 90 Degrees replacing Kevin Davis, who could no longer do the show. What's the background on G-Stack George? How did you get involved in sports betting? 

08:12 - G-Stack George (Guest)
It's a long story and it's riddled with failure all along the way and I'll take you back to the beginning. But I'm going to tell you this was by design. When I interview, I like to give a piece of me. You, this was by design. When I interview, I like to give a piece of me. But I don't like to reveal my story like. 

08:28
I had a podcast before joining uh 90 degrees and doing uh on this circles off channel called the monday grind and they didn't release episodes on monday. So people were always like what the hell does that even mean? Right, and but it was describing something, a process that I go through every monday during football season. But I like to give my a piece of me in spurts and make it about the guests. I'm trying to make them look good. I'm the point guard, I'm the, the head coach, to make them look like the star. So that's by design and and I'll get into all of that in a bit. 

08:59
But my journey starts off. Like anybody in Ontario or Toronto, my first exposure to sports betting is something called ProLine, the Ontario Lottery Gaming Corporation. Betting was legal for us, but you had to do it at convenience stores and play through a site called ProLine and they made you parlay three outcomes at once, huge house edge. But you didn't know any better. You thought this was what sports betting was and I had competed in. There was a bar in the East York area called Detroit's and they had other bars in the area that also worked for them and they had a spread competition where you made a pick for every single spread. You gave the bar your money and there was a part of that that went to a giant pool at the end. But there was weekly payouts based on who did the best. 

09:50
So that was my exposure to sports betting. It's parlays through pro line. I don't even know a single outcome that you can bet on. I don't know any of that stuff. And then someone says to me hey, you know, there's these things like called offshores where you can bet individual stuff. Yeah, so the first book I ever had was Sports Interaction. He recommended it to me. He goes it's in Quebec somewhere. That was my first time I ever bet it was in Quebec. 

10:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Somewhere it was on the Native Reserve to get around the rules yeah. 

10:24 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Yeah, and I believe they still operate. But he said to me it was a new world. So, first of all, I never had the online experience where you're sending money over. I think I was using InstaDebit at the time to get money in and I'm like, oh, you can bet individual games, but oh, the payouts are not very good. I'm not even getting paid out as much as I'm betting because I'm used to parlaying in the bigger concepts. So that was my first experience. Ended up betting Never really took a full interest to it. Off and on, life goes on. And then the next phase of my life is I get a bookie, a PPH. In Toronto there was this famous book called Platinum Sportsbook Yep, underground local sportsbook and they would throw like extravagant Super Bowl parties and would Did you go to the parties? 

11:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, I must have seen you at some of them. Yes, because I was probably there for a half. 

11:30 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I was there for all the parties until the year that it got rated, which was the Baltimore and San Francisco Lights Out Brother Bowl. That was the year it got rated. 

11:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That was the first one that I, for some reason I couldn't go to. I don't remember the exact story. I watched the Super Bowl. 

11:49 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I remember where I watched that super bowl, but I couldn't go to that party and I was just getting texts off the hook of like, great thing, great, you know, yeah, great you didn't come. This year. They got escorted at halftime too. So, wow, I had buddies that were there. They said we had to then go find a bar last minute on super bowl and everywhere's packed to go find and watch the rest of this game. Now, because of the delay, because of the halftime show of beyonce and the light outage, they actually didn't miss the game, right. So it was very odd. That whole super bowl, the, the comeback, where we're like baltimore betters, must have been sick to their stomach with that delay, like everything about it. 

12:16
So that year, um, I started, um, the year before, was the giants and the patriots in the in the super bowl? Uh, wasn't the undefeated season? It was the Giants and the Patriots in the Super Bowl, wasn't the undefeated season? It was the rematch four years later, right, so I start getting into betting that year and then again I'm making mistakes because I learned that, hey, I can find out what the public is betting on and I can fade the public. I used to type in public betting into Google and there was a website, I think the Spread or something, and they used to give you the graphs, the circle graph, yeah, and a buddy was telling me you know reverse line movement and you know all this good stuff, and I'm like I'm a pro now. I think I know what I'm doing, so I'm learning. I'm betting I'm actually doing not bad. I learned now a lot of it was just luck. But one thing, um, I like to do was I'm I'm very, um, what's the word? I'm looking, I'm contrarian by nature. 

13:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I like to think differently than than people I think that's actually a good trait to have in sports betting. Being contrarian by nature doesn't mean that you have to go against what the public is thinking or doing on everything. 

13:22 - G-Stack George (Guest)
But thinking in a different way, I think, is generally healthy exactly so when people were doubting the giants going into the air and I'll tell you the inspiration for it. I mentioned it on the drew dynsic podcast. But if you remember, like the giants had won the super bowl four years earlier and they had a season where they were like 13 and 0 and then it just unraveled I think plaquesxico-Coburris got hurt. So there was the markings of a good team, but the market didn't view them as a good team. The next year and I said why they still have everything that they did that got them to the Super Bowl. The year before they had some decent weapons. That was the emergence of Victor Cruz. 

13:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
If you remember that year. I'm a Cowboys fan. I unfortunately remember that year. 

14:03 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I'm a cowboys fan. I unfortunately remember that I'm going to tell you a story about the cowboys. December 11th played the giants on sunday night football and why that's all relevant to me in us in in a minute. So I remember the giants have this really good d-line. Before it was michael strand, but they always had this, like they had ocio maniera and justin tuck and then jason pierre paul, like they were a factory. They understood how to the blueprint on how to build a defense that could win. If you can get a pass rush with your four defensive linemen, it takes a lot of stress off of your secondary and it allows your linebackers or extra corners to fill in those gaps. So the best thing in football, the biggest advantage, is having an elite four-man pass rush. It allows you to clog up passing lanes. So I understood this concept, even though I wasn't fully understanding of how to bet professionally. So I had some football instincts and I remember reading a story and I told Drew Drew never heard this story, but it was a St Louis Cardinals fan who bet them to win the World Series a few months out of the playoffs. Okay, when they were like 18 games back or something. It was inconceivable at 999 to 1, and he bet 250 dollars. I got the the numbers wrong with drew. I thought he became a millionaire, but he bet 250 dollars, ends up winning a quarter million dollars. Yep, I got inspired. I said you know what? I just want to win once in my life and feel like I won some big money. So, entering the season, the Giants are like 30 to 1 or 35 to 1, end up putting like $1,000 on it At this point. I'm selling cars, I'm making good money and I make this bet because I go. I want the Giants to win, I go if they win. I want to feel good. I want to feel as good as this guy in St Louis and get the glory and feel like you're some sort of hero. 

15:45
So the season progresses and the Giants are showing some good traits, but they're not playing that. They're not playing out the gate as strong, but Victor Cruz is picking it up. They've got a dynamic offense. They're like four and three, about 50 to one. And then I bet like another 200 bucks, paid 10 grand at 50 to one, 1. So now I'm gonna win 45 grand at this point, yep. 

16:09
So now it's week 14 or 15, it's december 11th. I remember it because my best friend's daughter was born december 11th, which happens to be one day before I was yep. So I'm at her birthday party and I see the giants are playing dallas. Uh, sundayer and Giants are 72 to one to win the Super Bowl now. And the reason is is because they are out of, like they're not even leaving division and you can't make it in as a wild card that year from the NFC East. But I said, they're playing Dallas tonight and if they beat Dallas in the Sunday nighter then all of a sudden 72 to one is is crazy because you're going to have a division leader entering the playoffs and then you get a home game and you never know what happens from there. 

16:52
So I bet $100 more. So now, like the grand total is like $52,000. I've got $1,300 laid out. They ended up winning that game and it was like crazy, comeback, tight game. They ended up winning that game and it was like crazy, comeback, tight game. They ended up winning it. And I remember the whole playoff run. They play Atlanta first game. Dominate them. Atlanta scores two points on the safety. 

17:13
Yeah, I remember that one Next game they play the Green Bay Packers in Lambeau and if you remember, Hakeem Nix caught a halftime. Hail Mary. Yes, Like I remember everything about it. Then the uh nfc championship game they play san francisco and it was like the fumble punt, return and overtime everything like the whole run was miraculous. 

17:33
Now here's the thing I don't know what I'm doing yet. I think I do, but I start to believe in something called fate. Yeah, I go. This is fate. I love the mannings. To this day I I still maintain peyton manning was better than Tom Brady at his peak, we can get into that. Yes. 

17:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm totally in agreement with you. Yes, we are probably in the vast, vast minority, but at peak levels Manning was better than break. I don't know, I will, it's debatable. 

17:55 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I will die on this hill. 

17:57
Same was if I'm the last person on earth that leaves it, it doesn't matter, but that's so. I have an attachment to the manning brothers and it's also a double like fu, because eli's beating tom to get there. So it's the super bowl, and now I'm this kid with 1300 worth of futures that pays over 50 g's. I've never won anything big in my life and, uh, this is on platinum. So the word gets around town in the Danforth area. This crazy kid has this money on futures and he refuses to hedge. First of all, the Patriots were big favorites, so hedging was like a fool's errand, right? Yeah, of course. So I'm like, listen, I'm just going to ride it. I believe in fate. They did it four years ago. I think they can get it done. 

18:43
That game happens and I remember everything, everything about it because, uh, I've got pictures with all my boys there. Um, my buddy has a futon and we're watching the game. The his daughter. I told you it was her uh birthday, her birthday one year, one year old birthday. Yeah, the we're in the final game and I've got this eli manning uh jersey draped around my neck and we're watching the game and I'm nervous and she just all I feel is like two little hands on my back wrapped up in the jersey, and I'm like, oh my god, this is. This is happening now. My buddy knows 12 is my number. I was born on the 12th day of the 12th we got the same stuff, man. 

19:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
My whole life it's been 12th month. It's 12th month everywhere Roulette 12, whatever it is. 

19:26 - G-Stack George (Guest)
And you can look this all up. My buddy looks to me and goes guess where this drive is starting From the 12-yard line, first play Eli Manning, mario Manningham to the sideline I go oh my God, this is happening, so Rob happening, they win, and I think we had to sweat a rob gronkowski hell mary, like just because you know it's never be easy. No, so here's the, here's the problem. I now I believe I'm a hero. I'm a professional sports better. Yeah, I know how to win. I, I had a great run. 

19:56 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I was about to say and and sorry to cut you off, but this has a lot of like the problem gaming aspects associated with it. Right, like what your story reminds me very much of my own, minus the the big win. Sure, it's just thinking in terms of numbers, like I, I remember, or, or fate, or uh, I remember betting against the red socks when they won the world series. They broke the curse of the bambino. Yeah, I would. I thought that that curse was real. Like I bet against them. They were Yankees, were up three, nothing on them in the AL Championship Series. And I'm like, well, this is it, I'm just gonna bet the Yankees game four. 

20:36
And if they lose, I'm gonna double. So I martingaled all those and lost every one. Then they got to the World Series. I knew that they were a million times better than the Cardinals, yeah, but I'm still convinced myself. The curse is real. They're going to lose and I'm betting the Cardinals. So anyway, sorry to interrupt, but it does have, like, the elements of and now the downfall is going to happen. 

20:55 - G-Stack George (Guest)
because I'm the pro, I made money. I know what reverse line movement is. Now I can read the public betting percentages. I am smarter than everybody and I quit my job and I say I'm going to do this thing professionally. First of all, I was scared that I wasn't going to get paid by Platinum. I remember that's a legitimate concern. I brought my cousin with me and I'm texting with the agent and I go. Like I want to meet in as public during daytime as I can. We're going to meet on Danforth but he goes. I'm parked in the alley. Do you mind coming? I go okay. Me and my cousin go okay this is it. 

21:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's like the goodfellas scene with deniro. 

21:32 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I go we're either getting paid or or one of us is going away. So we get in the guy's car and this freaking guy's counting the cash out and it was real to me. I'm like, oh my god, I've never held this kind of money. I I texted everybody in my phone and I said, hey, drinks on me at legends this was my buddy's bar on the damn fourth Tuesday. I get paid out on Tuesday. Uh, I ended up spending like two grand at the bar that night, but it didn't matter, it was just good vibes. 

21:59
I was a guy who believed in vibes. Right, quit my job. I'm going to do this. I'm a pro. Nobody can tell me anything. And then all the bad stuff happened. I understand. 

22:08
I learned about the variance of sports betting and the coin flips and when you have no edge and betting late and everything. I was doing all the wrong things and I'm betting parlays because now I've got ego and I'm a great bettor, so I'm bombing everything. The other thing nobody taught me about life is when you don't work a job, you're bored during the day. Oh yeah, got nothing to do. So now, rob, I'm spending money during the day to keep myself entertained. So the money's even going faster. 

22:36
Maybe within two months I lost everything. In fact, I lost everything I had saved up before none from sports betting and I fell into a dark depression and I would go to the bar every day and drink and my uncle probably doesn't listen to these podcasts but he actually saved my life in that moment because I was too proud to go back to my old job, which I was good at. I was a very good car salesman. I was too proud to show everybody I failed. And he just came into the bar and he said hey, what are you doing here? 

23:08
I'm like I'm just having a couple of drinks and he's like I'm just here with a business partner, but I'll be done in about half an hour, let's have a drink. So we're talking and I don't know why and I usually hide this stuff and hold it back. I was just able to humble myself at that moment and said, hey, I'm in a really bad spot mentally, financially. And my uncle said, hey, he's a home builder, one of the most successful ones in the city said, why don't you come work for me? Yeah, I did it for two months. I realized I hate construction. 

23:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh yes, I did it for a summer in high school and I don't think never. These hands are not born to construct anything really. 

23:44 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Yes, but it got me back on my feet financially. I sucked it up, I went back to the dealership I worked at and at that moment, rob, I put gambling away forever. I said you know what? That was a scary moment in life. I got all the thrills of the victory and all the sinking feeling of losing everything. And I said I'll never do it again. And I changed my life. At this point. I said you know what? I don't want to sell cars anymore. This was after another year of working there. I said but I want to get into media and broadcasting. 

24:14
So I go back to school, I go to Humber to learn how to become a broadcaster the broadcast journalism program at Humber College I wanted to be Bob McCen, I wanted to be the guy in the mic and then I learned a year into my program that the fastest way into the industry is as a producer. So I said, okay, I'll be a producer. I got a job offer at News Talk. I'm happy with my new life. I'm not even thinking of sports betting. Like I dabble here and there things serious. Then I meet somebody who changes my whole outlook and understanding of betting and I'm telling him my story and he's like, okay, okay, he goes, here's what you actually have to understand about sports betting. It's a market. And he started to like film, film my head with words that I've never heard before, like uh, get gaining an edge. And telling me about odd screens. I never knew this world. 

25:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep. 

25:02 - G-Stack George (Guest)
At that point. I'm fascinated. I'm a. I'm fascinated I'm. I'm one of those guys that if I get an idea in my head I'm gonna pursue it. Yeah, like I'm gonna drop something like sidebar here. But I liked rap for a while. Okay, I made an album I got on the radio. 

25:17
Oh, god, we, we need to hear that one I might you have to use it for the intro track for 90 degrees going forward I battle, rapped on king of the, the second biggest battle league, and I have a video on YouTube with 250,000 views. And I only say this to tell you this is the kind of person I am when I get an idea in my head, I'm going to push it. That's how I operate. 

25:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I honestly think that's a very common trait for successful sports bettors, because it's like not settling for any. It's always like got to be the best, got to be the best, and part of it is because you're competing in a market with all these other bettors you can't settle for just like being average, exactly. 

25:54 - G-Stack George (Guest)
so I'm educating myself now. Now I'm reading like, okay, what is? And I start, you know, going through forums and start reading. I get introduced to some media, um, end, end up learning from captain Jack uh, circles off, spankies, broadcast, be better, betters, but the process I start learning that there's there's this whole new world to explore and how to do it. And I taught myself, uh, through a ton of reading. 

26:17
I'm the type of guy that during the pandemic, whenever something would release a medical journal, I actually read it because I wanted to understand what was in it, so that when I'm having an argument with somebody and they're reading the surface points, I can tell you what was in that medical journal. Because that's the way I'm designed. I'm very curious. So I'm learning. About sports betting I'm doing well for a couple years now, but I learned my lesson. I'm not going to leave my job. I'm happy at Newstalk. I'm doing well for a couple years now, but I learned my lesson. I'm not going to leave my job. I'm happy at News Talk. I'm making money and I was working the evening show, so it allowed me to be on screen until like a certain time and like once my show started, whatever I had to get off screen, but it was 7 pm, my show started. Lovely lady Barb DiGiulio was my first. Really was my first host. 

27:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I remember hearing her news updates uh, cfrb 1010 back in the day yeah, yeah. 

27:09 - G-Stack George (Guest)
So that was, uh, my exposure. And then, um, my cousin and I were also betting on something called pools in olg and there's a real opportunity there, because there's a weekly payout of like five, six hundred thousand dollars every single week and you're not playing against the book, you're playing against a pool of players. They take their rake, yeah, but the game could get, the king could be beat. I, I figured out a way to take advantage of the game where some boxing multiple yeah games across different tickets. 

27:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
yeah, okay, so just just to explain to the audience, um, what the pools game was. You had to pick the winner of every single NFL game over the course of a week, so you just go fill out a scratch card and say these teams are going to win. And it was $5 fee. If you wanted to box a game, which meant take both outcomes of a game, it would double the cost of the price that you had to pay. So if you want, a lot of people would box, like Sunday night and Monday night football, because they didn't want to have to, like, deal with hedging or the or have a sweat, so they'd box those games. Would be a $20 ticket instead of a $5 ticket, but on one single ticket it only allowed you to box five games, four games four games, so $80. 

28:23 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Yes, what I figured out was if I take two tickets and spend $80 on both tickets, I can now eliminate a fifth game, and if I bring in another $160, I can eliminate two games. Now, yeah, right, so we didn't have a budget, though, at this point, but we learned how to identify how to eliminate games and we started mathing it like okay, probability of teams winning the rest of the games on the board. Are there enough upsets there where, because we want like we've spent before 2,500 bucks? 

28:54
and won 1,300 yeah, no, $400, so we've lost money doing it. So there's two dynamics, right there's. You want to spend enough money to eliminate enough games? Yeah, but you, there has to be enough big spreads on the board that, when upsets happen, the payouts go up yep, totally agree with you. 

29:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean, uh, so just getting into this is just gen. So, again, our paths overlap so quickly and we probably, uh, because of we're born on the exact same day and we probably reached like very similar points in our life. So I went through this exact same experience with the pool stuff, where we you know, me and a few friends won pools probably four or five times never the huge payout which I was looking for. Yeah, sometimes we would win like 10k, which is nice. Sometimes we would put in you know 2500 and we'd lose because. But after we did it the first time, we're like, well, we're dummies. Why are we boxing, um, all these games that are a pick them and like, and picking all the big spreads? We should be actually doing the opposite. Yeah, we should be trying to pick the games that are pick them and boxing the bigger spreads and hoping that one of these under 14 point underdogs wins, because if that happens, then this ticket pays like, immediately, pays like $100K, because nobody has those outcomes. 

30:07 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I'll actually do you one better. I didn't even pick the pick-ems because I believe if you pick three pick-ems you'd actually be better off just putting the money into a book, right for $10K for three. So here's where it is. It's a 12-game card. You can't make money when there's only 12 games. This is when all the buys are happening. Card you can't make money when there's only 12 games. This is when all the buys are happening. 

30:25
Pools doesn't include the thursday nighter because they want to get as much action up to sunday morning. So, on a 12 game card, there was like seven multi-digit spreads. Yep. So me and my cousin and I, we put 10 grand down and eliminate everything but one game baltimore. Baltimore is a 13 pay point favorite against cincinnati and if you bet that 10K online, it would pay what? 1,800 bucks. They're like minus 600 or something of that nature. So as long as the pool ticket paid more than 11.8, we're way ahead. Well, chaos happened that week. Baltimore won, chaos happened, we made 100K and off an outcome. You'll never get that kind of markup, because I don't play parlays, yeah, uh, I don't play futures that much and and when you do it's, it's it's very hard, uh, to win a future and then, let alone, to make money. Pools offered an opportunity to blow up and grow your bankroll fast in a way that the average betting doesn't. 

31:21
So 2019 comes and my cousin is like pushing me. He's like, listen, we need to do this. Like we've been making money steadily for a few years and I said I'm not ready, had a bad experience, I don't want to do this. We entered that year and we I had a bankroll that was dedicated to the daily wagering for for football, but also for pools something separate, because you can't measure the roi on pools. It's very weird and stupid. Yeah, there's like pisky tells the story on your podcast about how they lost for like 11 weeks before they went. They hit the hail mary game, right. So you have to accept that there's gonna be four or five weeks in a row where you don't make money and you're wondering what the hell am I doing? 

31:59
Yep, so 2019 comes and it's week four and we end up and I remember everything about it. I remember what the big upset was. I remember all the games we had. The big upset was Tampa Bay beat the Rams as a 12-point underdog and at that point the Rams were 3-0, fresh off a Super Bowl appearance. Everybody thought they were the best team in the world. So we had that game boxed, we had other upsets, won the most amount of money I've ever won in one week ever. And then the next week happened and we won a lot of money again. And then another week happened and we won a lot of money again. 

32:37
And I don't want to give details of the money because A I don't want to come off like Simon Hunter and get attacked and everybody's going to say you're full of shit and I have pictures and screenshots. And I don't want to come off like Simon Hunter and get attacked and everybody's gonna say you're full of shit and I have pictures and screenshots and I don't want to. I don't ever want to post it. I could, I could do it and say, hey, let me start you don't have you. 

32:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I know we interviewed China maniac a few weeks back as well and you know people just honestly didn't believe the story he was selling and he had to come on Twitter afterwards and post like all these screenshots. It is what it is. 

33:05 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I didn't want to do it and, frankly, like I have a little bit more tact than that and I don't care to ever. I'm not trying to be a tout, I don't care about that stuff. If you think I'm not a good gambler, that's your business. I don't care. I make money. I showed you some stuff just to show. 

33:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Hey, rob, uh this is real, this is real right. 

33:22 - G-Stack George (Guest)
So, uh, 2019 ends up being a fantastic year. All the way through, and about halfway through, I had been getting hounded by an ex-salesman at bell's me bell media who wanted to start up his own media company. And he goes I want you, because at that point at news talk, I had risen to the ranks of being like the best producer at news talk on the biggest show in the drive time uh hour. And he said I want you to help me design this stuff. And I said you know what? I'm a little unhappy right now at the place I've peaked where I am and I'm very aware of when there's no more room for growth. I've been there five years. I said it's it. 

33:59
My boss is not going to step aside to give me his seat yep, and that's the only seat that I want. That's next. And I go that's not going to step aside to give me his seat yep, and that's the only seat that I want. That's next. And I go that's not going to happen. Uh, now, all of a sudden, my bankroll literally, literally, rob. And this again, this is. I don't want people to say, oh yeah, bullshit, you double your bankroll in one year. 

34:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We more than doubled our bankroll in that in that year, when you're playing, when you're playing like for people that don't want to believe, that I mean pools is essentially parlay betting. Yes in a right. 

34:22
You're just stacking all these combinations together and it's going to, you know, pay a large amount. But when you are betting that type of style, it's much easier for you to, you know, threefold, tenfold your bankroll in a short period of time. It's also much easier for you to lose consistently because the hold is higher on a lot of those markets. 

34:41 - G-Stack George (Guest)
And in 2020, there was the upset sport, upset sport happening. Right, because I'll tell you a game specifically and sorry, I like the sidebar, I like to chat. Do you remember? Uh, houston versus new england 2020, and you'll remember it once. 

34:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I jog your memory, but it's davis mills is a rookie and it was like bill belichick doesn't lose to rookies I remember the game clearly and I remember doing a periscope that morning, yeah, where I specifically probably talked about that, because the patriots had four offensive linemen out. It was covid right that that I, I, so I actually I'm confusing it. I actually bet the texans that game yes, yes, don't. 

35:16 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I did too. Okay, so follow me here. Right, four offensive linemen out for new england. Never like this doesn't happen. Four starters now. The market doesn't account for that. 

35:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They can understand the fantasy guys and the quarterback at that time I would say the market was a little bit slow not the betting market, the uh public. 

35:31 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Because you got to remember, when I play pools I'm not playing against there are sharps, but the majority I'm playing against. 

35:37
Very public betters dead money I would call it yes so houston's winning the whole game, leading by two scores and then, like they punt the ball off the guy's back and what I learned was a lot of upsets didn't hold in 2020, because it's one thing to catch a team off guard and if you have a home crowd, that can energize you and get you to the finishing line, but eventually, if you play long enough, the better teams win. It's the reason why it's harder to upset in the NBAba in a seven game series, because you catch a team off guard once in the nfl and their lights are out, but set through seven games, the stronger team will eventually pull themselves through. Yeah, so in covid, a lot of these teams didn't close out their wins, so the payouts were not good in pools in 2020. Anyways, this is a long, uh long sidebar 2019. 

36:22
I said you know what? Here's the time We've had success. I'm unhappy. In Newstalk, this guy wants to pay me to help blow up his media company. So it was a good payday for me. I said that was the moment I was finally ready. I had money for a bankroll, I had investments in life, I had income coming in, not just from Newstalk 1010. So now my job Was like my third Best source of income. Yep. 

36:45
And that was the moment I'm like, okay, here's the time I step away From my job and now I'm a professional bettor. I bet football. I don't bet other stuff Because I still believe In quality of life. I don't want to live On a screen All the time. Fair enough, yep. I also. Football's a big enough liquid market and I can get enough money down that I can make my living in a six-month window and enjoy the other aspects of life. But I'm retired from living and here's the downside it's COVID. I can't even go on vacation, because that was my plan March to June every year. I was like I'm just gonna go to Greece for two months and hit the Caribbean. So that aspect of life changed. So now I'm bored. Two years of doing this, I'm bored. I'm like, okay, I still love media because I wanted to get into media and I go, I, I, I see you guys. Uh, you guys were my favorite podcast, even, and I told you guys this long before I ever joined the team and I said you can do educational content, you can tell stories, you can help the person like me in 2011 who thought that reverse line movement and public betting mattered and you don't have to tout yourself. You don't have to show yourself I'm a big winner, and let me show you my futures ticket. Some people do that. I don't disparage it. That's your choice. That's just not my style. I also have been taught in life don't show people how much you make, because it creates it, puts eyes on what you're doing. Operate in silence, make your money, be happy. So I'm bored and I'll tell you the moment that I decided I want to do media. 

38:17
Steve Fezzik and I actually like Steve Fezzik. A lot of people don't. I love his brand of media. I think on Twitter he's insufferable, but that's part of the game. He's talking to Ross Tucker and he's telling him about an edge in preseason. He said you should be laying money lines instead of minus one and a halves and twos, because one point is actually a key number in preseason. And this was the reasoning he said because coaches don't want to go to overtime. That's what he said Good edge, right reasoning, wrong information. There is no overtime. It's not that they're trying to avoid overtime. 

38:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There's no overtime. There's no overtime. 

38:56 - G-Stack George (Guest)
So I said you know what? I'm a very sharp guy and I read all the rules and there's the void where I can come in with some educational stuff, but I can also give the correct information. Uh, when people are talking about player names and yeah, that guy, he's key for them and they don't know the name, yeah, stuff irks me when I, as a listener, I'm like no, I know the name, I want to. I should be on that pod to correct the record. That's how I end up getting in the media. That's's my story. Full of failure, took a long time to get to success. 

39:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Very similar to mine. Little bit of differences along the way. I got into media first. That was like my first exposure Didn't never, never graduated from university because I just got a full time job offer in sports media. I was a huge sports fan. When I was 20 years old I was like, yeah, this is a no-brainer. This was never even a career option for me. Now it is. I'm going to do this, and that kind of led me down the path of thinking I'm like this is going to be this great sports better as well. Didn't work out that way, but yeah, we share a lot of that For the people out there. Now, how's it going for you the past couple years? When you say that, are you still betting exclusively NFL? Are? 

40:08 - G-Stack George (Guest)
you doing other sports. No, I bet boxing and I bet political events. But boxing doesn't come around that often and unless it's the big, big fights, you're not getting down liquidity. Political events are even more rare. It's just a humongous edge and I enjoy it. 

40:25
I'll tell you something watch an election night when you have money on it yes and all of a sudden that race that you don't care about, the 48th senator in in north dakota, that becomes very entertaining to watch and yeah, yeah, call it, call it, and watching the numbers. So from an entertainment perspective also, I have an edge. The other stuff I got rid of the slot machine gambling. I love football, I love basketball, I love hockey, I'm a fan, but I I don't know how to bet it and I don't want to learn how to bet it because I don't want to spend that kind of time commitment. 

40:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Fair enough I'm similar to you in that aspect. People are like why do you only bet football and hockey? I, I don't only bet football and hockey, but the other sports that I bet the origination comes from someone else entirely, or it's top down slash steam chasing, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, so like, yeah, it is what it is, but uh, for bet pod ratings. Who's you know? George's actual source of income remained unclear up until now, but it is now clear that he's still doing this for a living, no other job no, that's it, that's it you. 

41:26 - G-Stack George (Guest)
You told me uh, hey, let's come record this at 11 am on a random day. I'm like, yeah, okay, of course I've got nothing else planned. Sure, yeah, you want to record an episode? Yeah, let's go. When I uh book a guest. I'm like what's your schedule? This is off season. What's your schedule? Like, I'm very flexible, I can work around your schedule. 

41:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, yeah, I'm sort of in the same boat, except I have the businesses as well, so it takes up a lot of my time. And now I have like an addiction to golf which stemmed because of the same thing that happened during COVID couldn't really travel, there was nothing to do, places were closed. What opened up first? 

41:56 - G-Stack George (Guest)
golf courses, oh, can I, can I ask you? Was Netflix every Monday morning releasing the Jordan doc two parts at a time, not like the sporting event of the week, because I know it was for me? 

42:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay, it was for a lot of people, but the way that I like to consume things is wait for it all to come out and watch it all in one shot? 

42:19 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Yeah, but if you're waiting for it because you have other stuff to do, it's COVID. What else do you have to do? 

42:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But I would have just watched other series or I would like I re-watched the Sopranos like 14 times during COVID or whatever. Like that's my kind of thing, the only show, the only shows that I've really ever watched week to week in my life, like post-streaming Sure Because post-streaming Sure? Because like when we were growing up there was no Netflix. It was you had to tune in at 9 PM on Sunday night to watch the Sopranos on HBO, whatever. And if you didn't do that, you know you're. You're out of luck. 

42:52
Some, some, but one of my friends might have literally videotaped it and gave me a VHS so I could watch it the next day, but aside from that, you know, there was no streaming. Nowadays, with streaming, they drop all these shows all at once an entire season, whatever. The only shows I've ever watched week to week since then are Game of Thrones and Succession, where just I watch them on a weekly basis. Aside from that, I just don't Game of Thrones, mostly because if I didn't watch the episode live it's spoiled, yeah, 100%. 

43:23
But I would see stuff Um that. What was the? Uh? The Jordan documentary was the last dance and it was hashtag the last dance. I just muted that hashtag on Twitter and I never saw this, so I. 

43:34 - G-Stack George (Guest)
but it's a doc. How much can they spoil that? 

43:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, of course, I know the whole Jordan story yeah. I know, I know the flu game. You know I knew that he was a better and like I've heard all the stuff, but it was very entertaining. But yeah, I mean I I exhausted all the streaming content how good are you when you watch shows? 

43:51 - G-Stack George (Guest)
because, like for me, it takes me like three seasons to figure out everybody's name. Yeah, so, uh, game of thrones I got into late, like around season five, yeah, and I remember having a group chat with my buddies and they love it because I'm like late watching the show, so they they're very good at not spoiling it, and I'm like catching up with them and like for the first three seasons it's like, hey, remember the guy who killed the big guy with the right, or the guy who's banging his sister, like that I didn't know nobody's names until like the third season. I'm like, okay, okay, you've said it enough times, I figured it out now so I never watched the first season of game of thrones live. 

44:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I watched it all in one day with my wife, um, after the fact, and google images was my friend because I would get to like the third episode. They'd say a name. I'd be like I have no idea who the fuck this is yeah, yeah google image. 

44:40
I'm like, okay, I know who this is or whatever. So google images through the entire first season was how I got through. At the end of season one, I read all the books between season one and season two, so I had a very good foundation for it the rest of the way, but I could see how it would have been extremely confusing yeah, there's a lot of characters, a lot and, and a lot of them look the same, like similar names, similar names, and they're all wearing the same clothing and from this family. 

45:07 - G-Stack George (Guest)
And if you start throwing in time jumps, I'm all the way confused about what the hell is going on. Yes, totally. 

45:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Really quickly here. If you've enjoyed the content here on Circles Off, make sure you do smash that like button, but also subscribe to the channel. Set notifications going forwards the last 28 days. 53.2% of the views in the last 28 days are from people who are not subscribed, and of that 53% I can see a lot of you came back and watched a second video as well and a third video. So if you're not subscribed, just quickly hit that subscribe button. It does help us monetize the channel, it helps people find our content on youtube and we can continue to grow, continue to do these episodes. It's just a no-brainer. If you do enjoy the content, subscribe. 

45:56
If you're listening in audio form, just rate and review five stars or just rate and review whatever you really think of it. Hopefully you think it's a five-star podcast and you rate and review it that way, but honestly, we do value the feedback and that's what I want to get to with the next topic here. Just rate and review whatever you really think of it. Hopefully you think it's a five-star podcast and you rate and review it that way, but honestly, we do value the feedback and that's what I wanna get to with the next topic here, which is, I guess, a form of feedback in the BetPodRatings Twitter account. So I led the show with it and kind of intro to you with that as well. But this thing has emerged now. It's not a huge following. I'm curious what your take is on the account and like how it personally affects you, if it does in any way, when you see the reviews of your podcast. 

46:39 - G-Stack George (Guest)
All right. So, first of all, I got very thick skin. You, you can't offend me. Uh, there's two things I'm too happy in life to let anybody say anything to bring me down online. The second thing is nobody would ever repeat this stuff to my face. I'm very confident in uh, in personal, uh and face-to-face interactions and nobody would ever repeat this stuff to my face. I'm very confident in personal and face-to-face interactions and nobody would ever bring this kind of energy. So, that being said, the person is clearly smart and prefers sharp content and doesn't think much of me Either. He thinks I suck as an interviewer, which, objectively. I'm a producer. I spend a lot of time in media. I don't believe that's true. I think I am good. Maybe he doesn't think I'm smart enough because I don't give enough of my takes, but he clearly likes what I'm doing because he's never not finished my I shouldn't even say him, because it could be a woman. They've never not finished. 

47:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Based off the tone of this account, I would lay minus 10,000 male count, I would. 

47:35 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I would lay minus 10 000 male. Well, they've never not finished my stuff. And the last two podcasts I did with sharp clark and joey knish even though I sucked up the joint and you know you gotta avoid listening to my parts for the hour they enjoyed it enough to say, hey, I would recommend it. It was entertaining also, though, but, like that aside, they actually put me on to a pod that I never heard of. Um, like they, they gave a 10 out of 10 to harala bob on spanky. Be better, betters, and I agree, like that was my favorite episode, I tell you, um, harala bob was spanky's best episode. Shane sigsby was, uh bet, the process's best episode, and for you guys it's either barry horse or matt trenhill, one of those two episodes. Those are my two favorite episodes, so he actually put me on to Matt Trenhill did another podcast give it a 10 out of 10. 

48:20
I'd never heard of it because of it. I actually took a recommendation and I listened and I enjoyed it. So thank you very much. I'm sorry that I let you down every episode, and I'm trying. I'm trying my best here. Just give me enough time. I'm one of those guys that eventually will grow on you. Eventually, if you hear a song enough times, you catch an earworm for it. So I'm hoping I turn it around, believe in me. 

48:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
The account seems to like all the guests you have on, but not you in particular. 

48:47 - G-Stack George (Guest)
So I'm a good selecting the guests. The topics are good enough that I can make the guest look good and talk about stuff that makes them smart and sound good. I just got to do something. Maybe it's my face. Maybe they don't like my face. I will try to change that for you. 

49:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I, like you, don't put much serious stock into it. I do literally value every piece of feedback, regardless of whether or not it's coming from someone who likes me dislikes me. There's like a brief explanation in each tweet or what's it called. What are they called? Now? Zach Posts Posts in each post of like why they liked the episode or didn't, and that's fair. I think clearly this is someone who's a very sharp person. Just based off of the descriptions, I clearly see some personal vendettas against other people from this account, which is maybe a dead giveaway of who it was. But you interviewed chris andrews, okay, um, and there was some like derogatory remarks about chris andrews in the review of that podcast. Okay, that weren't about like his appearance, it was just like chris andrews like boots winning sports bettors or whatever like. 

50:01
There's only a few people out there that are constantly harping on that, so maybe that's a little bit of a giveaway. But, generally speaking, this is one person's opinion on things. Uh, I like to crowdsource opinions for one and I'm very deep rooted in analytics, so for people out there that don't really know the amount of planning that goes into Circles Off and what we do, I evaluate every single episode that we ever do, like over, evaluate it, like exhaust myself by going through metrics both in video and audio form. Um, where did viewers drop off in this video? Did they also drop off on audio at the exact same time? Uh, what topics tended to do well and others. So, when you know, I look at an example like um, you know, the brad Powers interview that aired last week bet pod ratings gave it a four out of 10. No as a recommendation, mostly CFB process talk. Unfortunately, brad Powers process isn't particularly interesting. 

51:09
Grinding CFB year round, pouring through box scores, betting circa openers that's the opinion of one person. Yes, yes. Grinding CFB year round pouring through box scores, betting circa openers that's the opinion of one person. Yes, yes, but then I will go to the analytics and I'll look at the average watch time for that video relative to another guest and it's through the roof. Yeah, so for me, I like to see it, but I'm never going to put any stock into it, like, maybe they might pick up on something that is a valuable piece of in. You know, feedback for me, rob repeatedly us, or does this, or? 

51:40 - Zack Phillips (Other)
does that you? 

51:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
know. But aside from that, um yeah, I'm not gonna let it bother me or get to me you know. 

51:48 - G-Stack George (Guest)
You know we have to understand is like the super sharp community they'll listen to our pods, but they represent a very small segment of who the audience is. As much as we want to think, hey, we're catering to sharp bettors, the truth is it's a lot of guys who just want to get better, don't do it professionally and enjoy it from an entertaining perspective. So the loudest voices are often represented by like the smallest minority of 100%, and that's a problem If we believe that stuff to be true, like Twitter has a very loud voice about opinions of things, but reality is Twitter's, not real life. So Twitter hates wrestling right, they hate the creative direction that wrestling is heading in. Hates wrestling right, they hate the creative direction that wrestling is heading in. But they're breaking revenue records and sales and people are loving it. 

52:38
Because Twitter only represents a small segment of the audience and I think we have to remember that it might not be BPR's, you know. Top his flavor of what he enjoys and that's totally cool. I never, I never begrudge a person for not liking what they don't like and liking what they do. Content is how you choose to consume it. 

53:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Totally agree with you there and listen like there's stuff. That's true, but it's like. I'll give an example right, we did we like to do Q and A episodes on Circles Off right and the BetPod ratings account will typically describe those as like Low effort, Low effort episode, which is totally true. It's a low effort episode, but we've done so many Q&As now I know how they perform analytically. I know roughly how often we should do them. It is low effort, but it also gives opportunity for viewers and listeners to like get feedback from us and participate in the discussion. This is a pre-recorded podcast regularly. It's not like we're live and people are, you know, be able to interact in real time. So it gives people an opportunity to do that and people take the opportunity to do that. So we'll continue doing those going forwards, even though they're low effort. 

53:52 - G-Stack George (Guest)
It's not even low effort because they're still, you know, gathering the questions. You want to know what's really low effort? Watch along content, that's it. I have nothing to prepare. That's why it's my favorite. 

54:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I know. 

54:03 - G-Stack George (Guest)
But here's the thing there's a sense of community and people enjoy it, because one thing I learned is people like to watch with other people around. The experience is different. So the guy who might think a Thursday night game is boring he doesn't have any money on it yeah, he might tune in and watch along with four people and hear your opinion and feel like, yeah, I'm in the room, I'm in a party, I'm watching a game. That's low effort content. 

54:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
From last season. Of all the content we did at the Hammer, the watch-along stuff was the most successful. Oh, to hammer, the watch along stuff was the most successful. Oh, yeah, generated the most viewership, the most engagement, uh, watch time. So obviously we're going to continue to do that. Going forwards announcement coming soon on what the football schedule is going to look like, on forward progress and on hammer hq uh, this year. 

54:46
But yeah, overall I'm interested in the. I honestly think it's kind of cool. I would, you know, probably don't have to take personal shots at people when you're reviewing a podcast and just state your opinion as to why you liked it and didn't, without constantly ragging on someone. But, yeah, I think it's generally. I'd like to see more of it and honestly I will say there is a correlation between this account tweeting out episode reviews, even for some older episodes that we've done and then people watching it within the next 12 hours, so it's actually helping boost our views and listenership, even on the ones where they review no, um. So, yeah, it is what it is, but, uh, overall interesting. I've seen a lot of accusations. Some Some accusations were being thrown out at Bet Bash, at some people. I think Captain Jack accused Spanky's head trader, luke, of being this account. There's absolutely no way this could be Luke, because Luke doesn't care about sports. So why would he be listening to all these sports betting podcasts about, like the AFC East preview and whatever? 

55:50 - Zack Phillips (Other)
There's no way, luke and I are too busy betting lacrosse together anyways. 

56:00 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Yes, zach is heavily involved. You know what I love you. You've got this investigative, uh journalism part where you want to find out who it is. I'm the guy who, like, when you watch a documentary, like you know the one on the missing plane in malaysia, yeah, and they gave you three different theories yeah, one of those theories they could have excluded from the doc altogether I'm one of those guys that each one of them. Yeah, you're right, this is the real one. 

56:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm also like that, so I have to be careful when watching those. The theory about them going under the plane and rerouting it with the laptops they could have just not included. There was no reason to include that, it was purely for TV. 

56:30 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I'm disappointed they didn't go with Aliens. I thought that they could have got a fourth episode out of that series. 

56:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, they could have for sure. So Bet Bash was interesting, not only because people were being accused of being the BetPod ratings account. Oh, by the way, there was a lot of people accusing Rufus at one point. This is not Rufus, because Rufus is not mean-spirited, so I know that it's not him. But somebody was saying oh yeah, all the bet, the process, episodes are getting yeses and high ratings or whatever. I mean it's not Rufus. I can say that, but it doesn't matter who it is, I guess, as long as we continue to get traction from it and at least there's some positive interaction all around with it. But it's been over a week now, I don't know. Actually I'm horrible with time. 

57:19 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Two weeks to the day this airs. 

57:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Since Bet Bash, bet Bash. Yeah, yeah, it was an experience. You couldn't make it out this year. 

57:27 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I bought the VIP ticket for issues that I don't care to get into. I couldn't make it. Um, I want to take this from a perspective of what I wanted to get out of it and what I imagine it to be like and you tell me if I'm way off base and actually what you get out of it. Um, the speed networking thing I would have gone just so I can get 10 new guests for the podcast. Did you do the speed networking thing? I did. Who's the? 

58:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
best, most interesting person you matched with. So I will say that, and I'm going to just speak candid. By the way, there's people out there that think, like Spanky pays me to say stuff about that. This absolutely does not happen. If you actually want to know how cheap Spanky is, I was on one of the panels there and I still had to pay for the final party of the event. That's a true story. He's not paying me anything to promote that bash. So let's just make that explicitly clear. 

58:23
The speed networking for me this year was a little bit more disappointing than last. Okay, so last year I got paired with um, it was 15 people, I still think last year Maybe it was 12, but don't remember the exact amount. But I mostly didn't know of the people I got paired with last year I developed relationships with them that I'll probably you know. I said probably at least 75% of them I communicated with over the course of the year. This year I got 15 people, but I knew a lot of them. And now maybe this is my own fault for the way I filled out the form, but like I got paired with Pisky as one of them, who I interviewed here on Circles Off and we chat pretty regularly. I got paired with Thomas Viola from Unabated, who I chatted with a lot that week prior to that, so my pairings weren't the best. Um, the person that was most interesting would probably not be want not want me to say their name, but what I will say is that I learned, especially through my pairings, that I knew that I've known for a long time that sports betting has largely shifted to like the top-down approach. 

59:31
The majority of bettors who are trying to win now are all top-down approach. Okay, the majority of bettors who are trying to win now are all top-down. I don't wanna say it's easy money, but there's like there's almost a step-by-step guide in how you can win top-down. Most of the questions I got at networking three or four people were I started betting in the last couple of years. I'm doing really well. 

59:54
I don't know how to scale. I want to figure out how to scale, but what I learned and not only through these people but other people in that room and just talking to people at the conferences there's so many people out there who are just trying to scale but they're doing top down and it's hard. It's very hard to do that and I almost think and I'm biased. I'm a very biased person. I'm not sitting next to Johnny. Johnny doesn't only do top-down, by the way, he does all sorts of betting, he originates his own UFC, he does whatever. 

01:00:26
But the pendulum has swung. Like three or four years ago it was everybody wanting to build their own models, to like originate games, and maybe a lot of those fizzled out, but that was like very prevalent. Now it's you can't find people like that. Like there was no one there who wanted to have a conversation about oh, I'm doing this for NFL and this for NHL or MLB or whatever. It was very, very top down. So, anyways, that was my experience In terms of the most interesting person. 

01:01:00
It was. I don't wanna, you know, the conversations are sort of had. It's not like you're dealing with a doctor or a lawyer, like just patient confidentiality. But I'm not the type of guy that wants to just share someone's personal information. Let's say he was doing top down in a more interesting way than I had previously thought, um, and not only did I talk to him for like the seven minutes that we had at speed networking, I talked to him probably for a few hours afterwards. Oh, that's great. But, um, I met Joe Brennan, who's partnered with Adam Bjorn now on this Prime Sports book that they're opening up. I met a lot of good people, like it was just but too many familiar faces, I would say. 

01:01:42 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I think the experience for you is different because everybody knows or recognizes you or at least a good portion of the audience versus someone that isn't known and you both get to learn about each other, whereas there's a bit of a dynamic where, like, okay, they want to know about you, they're curious yeah. 

01:01:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So like, like I think you, when you can fill out the speed networking form you have, you have some input into who you're going to get paired with. Okay, so maybe I made it too specific, but definitely I think a lot of people that I got paired with Okay, so maybe I made it too specific, but definitely I think a lot of people that I got paired with were looking for like a mentor in some way or looking for advice, and I'm totally fine with that because I my motivations from Bet Bash are very different than a lot of people's. Right, I'm at a point in my betting where you know I don't, whatever this comes across, however it comes across, but like I don't really need help with liquidity you know I bet major market NFL, nhl it's pretty easy for me to get down. There's no appetite Like there's no shortage of people that are don't want to work with me on that stuff. I'm there to have a good time and like network and just meet people and see what's going on in the space. 

01:02:56 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Like they're, I'm going out to bet bash more for a party, yeah that that I would go for a, a party, b, uh, to get guests for the future show and three. I'm generally curious. I'm a curious person. I like guy. If you walk on public transportation and there's 40 people on the bus, everyone has a unique story and everyone can at least do one great episode telling you about their life. I truly believe that I have a general curiosity about people. My favorite thing is cracking a bottle of red wine and having a conversation with somebody for an hour or two hours and getting lost in that conversation and actually wanting to learn about that person. I also would not have wanted to go out there to make business connections and I'm fine with my operation and the money I make and the money I can get down, so that wouldn't have been my main driver either. 

01:03:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There are a few connections that I made and this I honestly again, I would recommend the conference to anyone. The price point this year was like $800-ish or so. You got to pay your way out there and your accommodation, so it's not cheap, but if you're serious about sports betting, I would be there. Now, listen again, there's going to be other people. There's other successful sports bettors out there that I know through Twitter that didn't show up. They don't want to go because they they want to remain anonymous. They want to. They don't need to help, like in getting down their operations. Good, to each their own, but I have a great time. Um, meet, you know, see a lot of similar faces every year that I would never see otherwise. Yeah, the mike craigs of right angle sports, who I love. Chris bruno, who we know I'm shooting craps with the guy to like six in the morning, every night and having a blast. Um, captain jack, I don't see in person, like all these people I don't see. We just we just interact online that? 

01:04:44 - G-Stack George (Guest)
okay, that was two of my questions is first, who? Who did you want to see that you had never met before and who did you want to see from? Uh, you know met before. And who did you want to see from? Uh, you know them and you just like, you know what. I like this guy Good vibes. I haven't seen him in a while. Would love, I can't wait to see him when I, when I get out there. 

01:05:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
The person that I wanted to see that I've never met before was Darren Revell. I'm not even joking why. I just wanted to be able to to converse with him outside of the panel to let him know, like our, I was wondering if he was aware of our history of like why he blocked me on twitter, which I thought was like, honestly, just like, uh, you can block whoever you want wait, wait, we don't know, we don't know, we don't know in the future, but as of't know in the future, but as of now, you can block whoever you want, and to each their own. 

01:05:36
You know there's some people that I interact with or that, like you know, they'll just block anyone. That's negative comments, whatever you do, however you want. But I just wanted to chat with him, obviously because he's a pretty polarizing character, but also because, yeah, I just wanted to see if the real life persona matches the Twitter persona, sure, so that's that. I'll talk about the panel in brief. In terms of meeting up with people, uh, it's, it's definitely a couple of the right angle sports guys, uh, specifically Mike Craig and, uh, jeff whoff, who, uh, who runs the the discord, or is at least very active in the discord for them as well, uh, but those are guys that, um, I just always have a a good time with, like they're down to earth, yeah, people, um, how much, how much? 

01:06:28 - G-Stack George (Guest)
what percentage of the conversations are about betting versus non-betting. Because that I used to work in media and the one thing I hated or or you know, I had connections in politics I hated the discussions about media and about politics. It like we do that at work. Man, I want to. I want to just hang with you and not talk about that stuff it was a lot of betting discussion there was. 

01:06:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It was there was a. I mean it's it's hard to say what the exact split was, but it is a betting conference. People are there. You know, when you introduce yourself to someone um a lot of times you just wanted to let people know, like, who you are um what you do. 

01:07:04 - G-Stack George (Guest)
So most of the conversation starters are are betting sure, but there was no, I mean the people that you knew, the people that you know it's still, it still is betting like. 

01:07:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's like how are things going? How was the last year? Can I help you out in any way? You know that's always the starting point and then you get into other stuff, typically where your hobbies will overlap. So in some cases golf, some cases poker, car, you know whatever, um, but it is, it is still a lot of betting. Uh, talk, uh. I said revel as one of the people I wanted to meet. Two of the other ones were people that I've interacted with but never met in person, um, both of who we interviewed here on circles off. One was um telemachus model. I won't give out his real name, I'm not sure if we aired it on the pod, but, um, he, since that pod, has like graduated into professional betting now. 

01:07:55 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah. 

01:07:56 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
His college basketball model, which he's with. He's with Rufus now, right, he's doing some stuff with Rufus, so Telemachus model great guy way taller than I expected. 

01:08:04 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I don't know why I mentioned that, but it's just no, you're way taller than I expected. 

01:08:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So for you to say that it's like, yeah, he towers over me, I'm just over six feet, uh, he. And by the way, I got that exact same feedback in public as well. It's like, oh, I've always pictured you'd be a shorter guy. 

01:08:20 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I always thought johnny was taller than you. I don't know why, but when I saw it I'm like oh, rob's actually tall. 

01:08:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I didn't know that six feet, uh, and a little bit, and then clive bixby as well, um, who is part of the hammer. We do forward progress together, sunday nights during the nfl season, uh, but I'd never met him in person, so we had a good day at stadium swim um, did you do the scavenger hunt? 

01:08:42 - G-Stack George (Guest)
because when I was talking to kevin and he's like I can't wait for the scavenger hunt, he's like what about you? And I'm thinking to myself I can't think of an event that I less want to do. Then I'm a big fat guy and I'm not doing 11 am in Vegas in that heat trying to ride around and split 10K six ways. 

01:09:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I had no interest in that event at all, so I actually think I could be wrong, but I actually think it started at 9 am, not 11 am. Okay, so again here, open book. I'm all about honesty and transparency. I'm going to just share these conversations. So I think, candidly, spanky was concerned that he wasn't going to have enough people who were interested in the scavenger hunt. So he was really appealing to my like, competitive nature, the fact that I love puzzle, like I do escape rooms with my wife, it's like a passion of ours. We love that type of stuff. So he was really appealing to that of like you got to do it. As soon as people see you do it, like they'll join or whatever. But on the signup day there was actually so many people signing up that I'm like I'm not. You know we have an open bar the night before. I'm going to play craps afterwards I can tell myself to go to bed at two o'clock. 

01:09:55
It's not going to happen, because I'm around people that I I enjoy spending time with. Um captain Jack came by that night and had like an epic like table was so cold and then this guy rolled for like 40 minutes it was. It was incredible, Uh, and I was up to like six, 30 in morning and I'm like I'm not going to go sleep for two hours and do this scavenger hunt. So I slept, got back down to you know, at lunch at Circa, at Saginaw's, at like 12 o'clock and then I went to the Circa Sportsbook. I got to see all the groups coming in from the scavenger hunt, so basically the winning team. The way you won is you had to play a specific ticket at the Circa Sportsbook and then go and hand it to Spanky's accounts guy. Mike Got it, who I will not call Chinese Mike anymore because he's not even Chinese, he's Vietnamese Mike. Yeah. 

01:10:47 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Wow yeah. 

01:10:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Anyways, you had to go give him a ticket and like whoever did that won? Yeah, anyways, you had to go give them a ticket and like whoever did that one. So as groups were coming through the sports book, they would see me there and they were like kind of running their logic by me. But I noticed the first. Like three or four groups all had different ticket numbers. 

01:11:07
They're like oh yeah, I'm going to play $6 on this Eagles preseason game tonight. One group's like we're playing $99 on week one under for the Eagles game, so I was like I honestly have no idea who could win, but they were all walking me through their logic. This was a very intricate puzzle and they had to go all over the place. One group ended up somehow at the penitentiary or the jail, like they went so far off grid they ended up at like a jail and. 

01:11:33
Spentiary or the jail, like they went so far off grid they end up at like a jail and spanky had to call them and be like no, you guys are in the wrong spot. Like leave there, yeah, type of thing. But uh, I didn't do it. I honestly regret not doing it really, because I think I would have done well just because you wanted to win your competitive nature kicks in Plus. 

01:11:54
EV analytics team won and there was like a camaraderie amongst the team. It was kind of cool. It's not even like everybody split. Everyone took home like 2K each as part of that team. It's not the money or anything. 

01:12:12 - G-Stack George (Guest)
They free rolled Bad Bash. 

01:12:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, 100%. I mean, they paid for their trip. But I kind of regret it because I just wanted to see what it was like a little bit more. But then again, would I go back in time and go to sleep at 2 o'clock when I was playing craps with a bunch of Bet Bash attendees? I wouldn't, I wouldn't change that. 

01:12:34 - G-Stack George (Guest)
All right, the panels, that's the uh, the money, and the one that you were specifically on with Jeff Benson, darren Rovell, uh, and there's two other gentlemen, is Steve Fezzik, that's right. 

01:12:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Who replaced uh last minute scratch, joey Kanish, um which some people weren't too happy about and dave sherapan as well um, yeah, so this panel panel day comes. 

01:13:01
I meet ravel in the hall. He's staying on the same floor as me at circa. I meet him at the elevator to go downstairs, introduce myself. Are you rapazola? Yes, he says to me how contentious is this going to get? And I'm like I have zero intent on making this contentious, like I'm not. I told them I'm like I'm not a Twitter troll, right, I'm? I'm not the guy that's going to. I told them like you got to worry about Jeff Benson at Circa because he's going to. 

01:13:29
He will speak like to each their own and I actually actually really liked that about Jeff Benson, how he's gonna he will speak like he to each their own, and I actually actually really like that about jeff benson, how he's very just outspoken, speaks his mind. But I'm like I'm not gonna be that guy, I'm just gonna state my point of view and I'm sure that our points of view will not align on a lot of things. Yeah, but I'm not here to take personal shots or whatever he's like. Okay, you know, like what's the history? Why do I have you blocked? 

01:13:53
So we talked about that a little bit, for for years ago I don't know the exact tweet I'm paraphrasing zach might be able to find it and put it in post-production but revel tweeted something along the lines of like the odds of two nfl ties happening in one week, or like one in 750,000. Absurdly wrong number. Yeah, I don't remember the exact number, but I just remember the number. I saw the number. I was sitting at a bar and like at just I'm like what is this? And I'm like trying to do the math in my head and I was responding from the bar, just like no, this math is obviously. 

01:14:32 - G-Stack George (Guest)
What's the relevance of the bar here? Have you been consuming a couple drinks at this point? 

01:14:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
no, honestly, I just remember where I was at that exact moment, I don't know why I had been consuming drinks, but like I wasn't drunk, I was just. I just remember it so vividly. Um, because I was with another friend who happened to be like a stats major and I'm just, like, you know, showing him and he's like this is ridiculous. So it was an. It was an NFL week where two tie games happened, so he wanted to tweet the probability of that happening and he completely mistweeted it. Uh, I responded. 

01:15:06
I'm like like no, this is not right. His response to me was like well, I ran it by Johnny Avello, sportsbook director of wherever he was at a time, and he said that this is like correct. I'm like, okay, it's not. Like here's the math, here's what I would do to come up with, you know, figure out exactly what the probability is. And we kept going back and forth and he just eventually blocked me after, like one of the interactions, that I wrote an article the next day. I was working with prediction machine at the time. I wrote an article the next day. I was working with prediction machine. 

01:15:38 - Zack Phillips (Other)
At the time, I wrote an article the next day about the exact probability and how I figured it out and how it was way off. That might have something here, but might be a different one, by the way. Oh no, um, this is November 2nd 2019. Um, I'll put it up on screen for those watching on YouTube so you can see everything. But there's screenshots and stuff. So rob this is? It starts by rob screenshotting revel tweets and he says interesting turn of events. Uh, effectively, revel was tweeting. One of the most free money bets in sports is the under on the service academy rb navy, yeah, and then he's giving percentages I'm not going to get into too much, doesn't really matter. 

01:16:08
Revel replies it's not a turn of events, you idiot. The story which I'm sure you didn't click on talked about how bookmakers were more aware of the under now which will make it harder in the future. I bought that and I bet against it today. I lost. And then rob says funny that you're calling me an idiot when our first ever interaction was in regards to the probability of two ties happening in an nfl season. You were only a tiny bit off there, if you recall. Yes, and then that's it. 

01:16:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So this was after it. Obviously, I probably had to screenshot a Ravel tweet because I was blocked so I couldn't actually just post a tweet or whatever. But yeah, so we have a story passed, so the panel comes and we're there. Now, at some point, rufus Peabody decides that he's going to do a Twitter thread. This was not immediately when we started the panel. 

01:16:58
It was at some other point, but room is packed. It's weird because I've been to other conferences before where I've spoke on panels. I've been part of them. Usually the audience is very quiet, they're just observing. Maybe there's some questions at the end. This you could feel like more emotion in the room. It's really hard to describe but like even after some answers like people would clap or or you know, there was like audible laughing and like it was not. It was unusual and we're following Billy Walters right. So the room is packed. Yeah, like there was a break after Billy Walters, but everyone is there because pretty much everyone at the conference attends that spanky Billy Walters interview. 

01:17:47
So Rufus is doing this Twitter thread which in hindsight I have since read the thread. It is not entirely indicative of the conversation. Like the first tweet in that thread is rufus saying uh, quoting revel, saying I am part of the problem, which in my recollection he said sarcastically and also as part of a larger sentence. So that created like a little bit of a stir, sure, and everything in there was not exactly fully reflective of the situation. But basically sam panayatovich started the moderation, kind of asked us all to explain our roles in gambling Twitter and eventually it got to the conversation of like. 

01:18:39
Don't know how I got to the point, but I was trying to make the point that what bothers me about content creation in the space the most is when the content creator misrepresents themselves to the audience, and I explained that I have a personal experience with this when I was younger, like I did an infomercial for covers called Covers Experts. Basically, I thought a lot of these people were successful sports bettors that weren't. I've tailed picks from people who. So I just don't like misrepresentation. Right, I don't care, I never have. If a content creator is a wreck, better, a losing, better, as long as they are upfront about it. It's when they try to sell themselves as something that they're not which really bothers me. That's me personally, me personally, some other people, and I had a lot of conversations around the conference afterwards from some people who are like I don't agree with you on this, you're hypocritical, whatever, totally fair, you can address those points with me and I'll always have a conversation with people about it. 

01:19:47
But I could not communicate this point effectively to Ravel, which was really bothering me, because he just kept bringing it back to him being the most transparent person anywhere because he tracks all of his picks within Action Network app and I was like praising him for being transparent. I'm like that's great. There's been some history. There's a some history. There's a guy on Twitter called Sizzle who has pointed to some maybe deleted bets from Ravel in the past. I don't know whether that's true or not. I honestly don't know, but either way, he was very stuck in the transparency thing and like where's your record, rob? And I was like well, the shows I give out picks, I where's your record, rob? And I was like well, you know the shows I give out picks. I keep track of record. I'm a pro. Better, it's disadvantageous for me to track every single pick for a variety of reasons. 

01:20:41 - G-Stack George (Guest)
So they won't reverse engineer your pros. 

01:20:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But listen, there is some truth to that. It's different in the Warren Sharpe scenario. We can talk about a lot of this, but Warren Sharpe is selling picks. He's giving out his place publicly, no matter what, so I think there's an onus on him to track those, even if someone can reverse engineer. It's like then, stop selling the picks, stop publicly doing them. 

01:21:08
For me, betting is livelihood. If my nhl stuff, for example, was to get out there, people would be able to flag accounts that know it's. My nhl stuff, for example, was to get out there, people would be able to flag accounts that know it's my nhl stuff. They could piggyback off it. They could do all sorts of stuff and potentially, in some capacity, maybe reverse engineer. But he was very fixated on the transparency component and I was trying to explain to him that that's not the issue. For me it's the misrepresentation. Like you're not a gambling expert, darren, you had no absolute, like nothing about gambling very, very little. So do not put gambling advice out there without letting people know that, especially when you have 1.9 million followers and other content creators in the space, whether that's youtube, whatever. Just don't put stuff out there without letting the audience know who you really are. 

01:21:55 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Let me ask you something, though in the grand scheme of things and all content creators, do you think darren rovell is one of the most destructive accounts out there, or do you think there's people that are far worse? 

01:22:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
um, he's one of them because he perpetuates like, the kind of like, maybe the dream that you had of like everybody can win big. 

01:22:15 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Yeah. 

01:22:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like the Parley Pats Mattress, Max stuff or whatever. 

01:22:18 - G-Stack George (Guest)
The guys I see here's the content creators. I hate, I hate. Like Marco Parley, I hate that guy. 

01:22:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like disturbs me to the absolute max. Yeah, yeah. 

01:22:28 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I keep winning million dollar parties. I don't like that Right. 

01:22:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So that, to me, is definitely a form of destruction. What you know, ultimately, I think Darren is just chasing clicks. I think he made that very clear as well. Like people are interested in this, I'm going to write about it, but I do think that there's like an onus to not write about things that can be destructive. So to each their own. Everyone has their own opinion on this. I'm just sharing mine. 

01:22:55 - G-Stack George (Guest)
you might agree with darren, you might have your own takes, but this is my whole opinion do you think you came off bad because you said part of rufus's twitter thread didn't capture some of the, the, the, the moments on on stage or misrepresented it? Do you think, when you look back on it, do you think you came off bad reading reading that twitter chain? 

01:23:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
no, I don't so in the room I definitely did not feel I came off bad. Uh, I like one for the amount of people who approached me afterwards to talk about it and like it was the highlight of their week or whatever. And again, I hope like if it was the highlight of the week because, like you, I was maybe too aggressive with Ravel. I'm not really super proud of that, I think, just from an entertainment perspective. Whatever, I just spoke my mind. All I did was speak my mind and I don't think I came off bad. 

01:23:48
Now that video has been recorded I don't know if it's ever gonna be released. It should be, I agree, but I don't know if it's ever going to be released. It should be, I I agree, but I don't know if it ever will be. I do think if that was to make like it publicly most of the recreational side of bettors, or recreational bettors, the vast majority of the betting population, I would probably come off looking poorly because there's just like a sore, like there's a lack of education in the space. You know, you kind of know what I'm getting at Like a lot of the points I'm making will just go right over people's heads. 

01:24:23
I was speaking to my audience, which are the people in that room which would understand a lot of what I was saying, but Darren just could not understand what I was saying and he just kept bringing up examples that were triggering me even more and more, and when I completely lost it in the moment was when he brought up Chris Rabon as an example of someone who does it right, chris Rabon being with the Action Network. 

01:24:50
So backstory, but maybe one to two years ago, someone DM me on Twitter specifically with screenshots of them tracking Chris Ray Bond on the Action Network app and said like these lines don't exist, these live bets, like these numbers do not exist when they're coming out, these live bets, like these numbers do not exist when they're coming out. Um, so myself and someone else um within bet stamp at the time, we kind of just like, did our own due diligence on the situation, and he was very clearly past posting live odds in some capacity. Right, so he may have actually been betting them himself at those numbers, but when he was locking them into the app, they were had already moved, long moved, and he's cooking the books here. 

01:25:42
Yeah, and, and I was explaining to Darren that, like he's past posting numbers and had has been known to do that it's not only me that, like lots of people know this, so you know there are people watching this that know this. It's like not a well-kept secret, but he was explaining to me how it's. Physically it's impossible to do that because of the way that their app works. They, like Betstamp, have some sort of bet syncing technology where you just place the bet at a sports book and it pulls in the line and tracks it. Now, that's relatively new for one, but anyone like with live odds, especially anyone who's trying to keep like a live database of live odds, even like any bet tracking software, it's really hard and it's just an easy way to skirt the system. And he specifically said to me and we were arguing about this for a little bit and I I kind of just gave up because I wanted to move on but he specifically said to me you don't understand how bet tracking apps work, which was the triggering point for me because I helped build one. Yeah, I come from a product like I worked as a product manager for the score for years, so I helped build one. I come from a product that, like I, worked as a product manager for the score for years, so I helped to work on the bet stamp product. I know exactly how bets bet tracking apps work. I know how to game the system. We spent years we've spent literally years at bet stamp trying to plug all the holes that we know can possibly exist. 

01:27:12
But there's always, always, always, always gonna be a scenario unless you're directly pulling every single bet in from a sports book which no app is doing right now where somebody can be watching an odd screen and quickly click a stale number in an app. It might be one second, it might be two seconds, might be 10 seconds with some apps might be 30 seconds, but it's always a possibility. He could not grasp this. Maps might be 30 seconds, but it's always a possibility. He could not grasp this. He just could not, and it's a fundamental lack of gambling knowledge. But that was what derailed it for me, where it was just like this guy is just not gonna get anything that I say. And he really hit home many, many times, many, many, many times on him just being extremely transparent. And even Jeff Benson said no one's questioning your transparency. This is not worth questioning whether or not the stuff you're doing is a harm to the general public. 

01:28:06
He just he couldn't get it, and at one point he then called my reputation into question when I disagreed with him on something. He said well, this is why you have such a bad reputation in the space, oh so he does know who you are. 

01:28:21 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Like he, he played coy about knowing bingo and then, oh, wait, a minute I've done, because I didn't think darren would go into a panel like that, unarmed and not knowing about everybody's background this is why you have such a bad reputation in the space. 

01:28:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
And Steve Fezzik on my left, says Impeccable. What are you talking about? His reputation is impeccable. He says that I never I mean years ago I never, ever thought Fezzik would be the guy sticking up for me. 

01:28:48 - G-Stack George (Guest)
But Steve loves you. I heard him and RJ Bell and AJ and Steve Seidenberg Scott Seidenberg talking about the panel post like they did a show on it and Fezzik's got a lot of respect for you. He admires you. I wonder if it's that, what's that syndrome where you eventually grow feelings for your kidnapper? 

01:29:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Stockholm syndrome yeah. 

01:29:10 - G-Stack George (Guest)
After the beat down, Fezzik received on Circles Off. He's got Stockholm Syndrome. He loves you now. 

01:29:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well. So I think maybe what it might have contributed to that, and I don't know for sure. I actually never interacted with Fezzik for years. I've always known of him, we just didn't interact. I made a few jokes about his tweets before, even in the panel. I was like I don't know how you click send tweet on some of the stuff that goes out. 

01:29:39 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I have no idea and I don't know about you guys, but he clearly saw the kind of money you can make from Twitter. Now on engagement, because Steve has ratcheted up the violence on Twitter. 

01:29:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's tweeting stuff just to cause commotion right now he's become a shit disturber, for sure. 

01:29:56 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I gotta give it to him If he finds another revenue stream. He's going to explore that option. 

01:30:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He stepped up his game, but I honestly think that a lot of it just stems from so we did the circles off interview with Fezzik. If you haven't listened to it, honestly, I would highly recommend that you check it out. We'll link that in the description below as well, but Johnny and Fezzik were getting into it a lot. And. 

01:30:26
Johnny in my opinion asked an aggressive but not unfair line of questioning. I think totally within his right to ask the questions that he asked. And in the hosting chair there were times where I felt like a little bit uncomfortable. I don't like people will not believe this about me, but I generally don't like confrontation. I don't it makes me uncomfortable, but I played more of a neutral party. If it was like a witness interview, it was like a good cop, bad cop type of situation and I think he probably came out of that interview was like a good cop, bad cop type of situation and I think he probably came out of that interview respecting me a lot more for not being as aggressive not piling on right, which you know. 

01:31:01
I don't think it would have done me any service to pile on there Like I. I am a believer that there's that's another person on the other side of the camera that we're interviewing. Give them the opportunity to tell their side of the story. If you disagree, we can ask questions, we can poke holes, we can do whatever we want to do, but I don't think it would have served me any purpose to just like ask the same questions as Johnny, I think you. I needed to keep it on track to make sure it didn't devolve. Anyways, I think that has led to Fezzik respecting me more. That's my speculation. He might deny that. Agree, whatever. That's just my perspective. But there's a few things, other things, that came up. 

01:31:41
So I referenced BookItTrent as someone that I think is a good content creator and my reasoning and, by the way, anyone can disagree with this stuff. It's not the be all, you know. My opinion is not the be all and end all. These are just the way that I'm wired to think and what I believe on situations, and I disagree with you on Book it with Trent Perfect. We can have this conversation and lots of people do, like this is a very big contentious point To me Book it Trent, as an individual, is, doesn't own book it, he's a minority owner in the company. Um doesn't really have like full creative. You know, I don't want to get into the full details, but like as just him, as a person, what he's doing on a day-to-day basis. When I first found him it was like doing these TikTok videos which I thought were funny about. Like now in hindsight it's probably a bad idea to put stuff out there which is like, yeah, I'm like you know, it's a video of like, oh, like how my family going to afford to eat this week. 

01:32:46
And then he's like mashing, like lion's money line or whatever. I can see how it can be taken, you know. But if you got to know him more and watched his content, he was very, very actively preaching that he is not a winning better and that to me was like do what you want You're giving, you're arming people. Even now, when people call him like a loser on Twitter, like why would I tail your picks, or whatever, he just responds like I wouldn't or like I would bet the opposite. So like he very much stays true to who he is as a veteran. 

01:33:20 - G-Stack George (Guest)
All right, here's the problem, because you criticize Rovell for saying hey, I'm transparent, you just said well, bookie Trent doesn't represent himself as a winning. Better, yep, that doesn't matter, because to me I don't care that a guy who's an expert tells you hey man, bet a unit on this team. Technically okay, maybe he's got no edge or the pick is useless, but he's not preaching anything irresponsible. He's saying bet a unit. I kind of like it. Bookie Trent puts out a video this week where his bookie's texting him hey man, you owe me two grand. And he goes give me one more day. I him hey man, you owe me two grand. And he goes give me one more day. I got one bet, I want to make it back. And then he puts it all on Baltimore money line against Washington. 

01:34:00
They won or lost, that's irrelevant, but he's teaching the irresponsible part of gambling, the chase right, dumping everything on to try to get yourself on out on a Sunday night. 

01:34:11
Because, rob, I've been there. I've been there, so have I. By the way, in the whole, you know, four grand going into Sunday nighter and I'm betting 500 bucks a game and I bet it all on the Sunday nighter just so I could break even and you're shaking, watching this game because a you don't even know how you're going to come up with this money on Monday for your bookie you got a queasy feeling, uh, watching the game and then, once you lose, that sinking feeling of damn. I should have just accepted the four grand loss, because right now I would kill to have just four grand to pay instead of the eight. So I find that way more destructive than a guy who says, hey, I'm a freaking good. Better you should bet the the lions plus one, because you know the this quarterback's gonna carve this other team. Useless analysis and stuff that doesn't bother me as much as book it trent with some of his content not all of it, yeah but I don't like content like that. 

01:35:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's totally fair. I've been in the same spot of chasing losses. Obviously, I highly, highly preach bankroll management now and not doing that stuff. Some people I mean it's just very challenging. If you've been in the spot before, you know exactly what I'm talking about. For me, I think context matters. And again, listen, there might be, and it's possible, people who are stumbling upon that video and taking it seriously. I don't believe that there actually are. I think it's a shtick and people realize it's a shtick because he's made it apparent that it's a shtick. 

01:35:35 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Yeah, it's clearly parody. I just think you're feeding that culture. 

01:35:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

01:35:41 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Right, and I believe that's more destructive than the actual game or the video or anything about that. It's feeding that chase culture because, believe it or not, it's like he makes it look cool to chase all his losses and try to win it all back on one game. It's not cool. There's nothing funny about that, because there's a dark aspect of that and I've seen it firsthand, I've experienced it. So me that stuff strikes a nerve yeah no, and it totally can. 

01:36:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It struck a nerve with a lot of people Most people, though it was not specifically with Trent, it was with the brand where it was like oh, how can you promote this? They're like this brand is doing this and that and I'm like listen, I'm not promoting the brand, I don't like every single content creator with Book it. I think that there are definitely people who quote unquote, do it wrong, try to pass themselves off as winners when there's no need for that. You see a guy like Trent who's built a following as a losing better and has been like very upfront with it, and for some reason, I think it goes back to ego of a sports fan. 

01:36:44
Some people just can't let it go. They can't just let people know that they're a loser or whatever. But anyways, that was one. And then there was a lot of people that approached me and, I will say, had very fair conversations with me. It was not like they approached me and like, oh Rob, you're a hypocrite, you do the same thing, or whatever. No-transcript at pinnacle or wherever is going to be a winning better. That's just not reality. But there's also lots of things that I do and preach that will turn a losing better into like less of a losing better and someone who can maintain a bankroll for a long time and have entertainment and engagement. Look at zach, for example. Behind the glass right, although zach is, I think, now winning better as well, um, at least his bet stamp is uh, which, which? 

01:37:57 - G-Stack George (Guest)
zach's not telling you about the table tennis in russia at 3 am. 

01:38:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm looking at zack's bet stamp account. He's past posting live odds. Uh, you know he's not but anyways, there I can. 

01:38:08
I can get that perspective like I. I like to have conversations with people and anyone's entitled to have their own opinion on it, but I don't think it's hypocritical because I think a lot of what we're doing is rooted in the right messaging and we do that on every like it can. All it can honestly get redundant. How often we do that Like we talk about, you know, playing within your limits and stuff, but it's important, so I don't really care that it's redundant. Anyways, those are just like the big things. 

01:38:34 - G-Stack George (Guest)
One last question for you because I think Ravel is very aware of his brand and I think he puts some stuff out that he knows he'll get crap on because he wants the engagement it feeds him. I agree with that. You've been a public persona for a while now and you have a following. Are you self-aware of your brand and are careful about what you're putting out there? Because I had a conversation with my betting partner, my cousin, who doesn't have a social presence and doesn't want one, and he's asking me why are you doing this? And I told him my end goals and I said but if tomorrow I had to shut down my profile Twitter, no more media and just be happy in my life as a veteran, I can do it. No problem, I'm able to step away. I don't feel like I'm compelled to tweet every day so that I can keep my brand going along. Do you? Are you in a position where you feel now obligated to have to uh, cater to the audience and give something out there? 

01:39:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Uh, I wouldn't call it a no, I don't. I honestly don't. Um, it would sound stupid from someone who runs a content network to say that, but I don't ever feel obligated, Like people who follow me on Twitter. There will be three, four days at a time where I just don't tweet, sometimes because I don't think I have something relevant to tweet or I'm just like it happened to me this week. 

01:39:53 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Okay, sam Howell has this amazing first half of the game, right. And I started to craft one or two tweets about Sam Howell, right, I'm like you got to do something witty. You got to show a half that you don't care. And then I sat back and I'm like who cares? Who cares what I have to say about Sam Howell? Because 900 other people on Twitter right now are making the same dumb comments and I'm like I was going to land on something like adjusting my power ratings Washington's going way up And'm like who cares? I, I, you know what, maybe? Just I'm enjoying this game I have. I have some money on it. 

01:40:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't need to tweet this thing out to anybody I built most of my following on twitter from just live tweeting cowboys games. Honestly, I think people really could feel the emotion that I was feeling through my tweets and I I enjoyed doing that or just tweeting like primetime football games or whatever. That's how I built it. But like I don't feel an obligation to tweet at this point and I don't feel an obligation to do any type of content um, you know that I'm not super comfortable with Like. The Simon Hunter episode is probably the pinnacle episode of circles off okay, it's got the most views all time. 

01:41:07
Um, it got the most views likely because it was polarizing and there was a lot of people who came in to defend simon hunter. You see that in the comments of that video it's still comment. People still comment, still find that video and comment on it. Um, but I, professor shine, came up to me at bet Bash and he's like dude that Simon Hunter video. He's like I have to watch it like once a week because it's like he's just says it's the best vid. 

01:41:34
It's the best piece of content ever created. I don't really love that episode because I've listened back and you know if I could do that in hindsight we probably should have just reached out to Simon beforehand and had him on instead. You thought it was mean spirited A little bit. 

01:41:50
Yeah, it was never the intent. I mean it sort of was, but like it it's hard to describe. Anyways, I just listened back to it and it's not a piece of content that I love. Tons of people love that. I won't name names, but there's people who still reach out to me about how great that episode was and they're like, oh, here, like they're constantly sending me Simon Hunter content of like oh, you have to roast this guy, you have to do, and like it's been done, I've done it now. You know, recently he had a podcast that was sent to me like by a dozen people about how he consulted for an nfl team during the draft yeah and what, and people sent me those now candidly like it's obviously bs yeah 

01:42:33 - G-Stack George (Guest)
because either either he, he actually did. No, it's, it's, it's pathological like at this point. 

01:42:41
I actually, when someone has that level of lying to them, like I call it salsa, right, when we all tell a story and there's a couple extra details and you know things get turned up 10%, that's called salsa. When you're telling a story, Then there's the complete like fabrication of something that never happened in a million years and I go I look, I'm like, oh, that's really there's something wrong with him there that he thinks that people believe this, this crap. 

01:43:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So I actually have consulted for teams across major leagues before I'm not going to say who, because guess what? I signed an NDA and I can't talk about this stuff publicly for for these. But on top of that, if you were, if you did consult for an NFL team team during the draft and then you went out and did three podcast episodes of nfl draft bets and talked about all the draft bets that you made, we have a real conflict of interest here, a massive one. So either you didn't or you absolutely violated some sort of league policy, which is a huge problem, and you've now put that out there like it. Obviously he obviously didn't. But this is what my like, this, this is the misrepresentation of content creators. Yeah, that that drives me nuts. Like it drives me crazy. 

01:43:53
He never had to say that yeah he already has his following who thinks whatever, and he's maybe built that off of many lies but never had to say that drives me insane. But yeah, I don't, you know, I could do another one of those episodes and we could throw him up on the thumbnail, yeah, and you know, we and we would probably we'd bank a ton of views, sure, and from a business perspective it makes sense. It makes sense to do it. From a human perspective I don't like the guy, whatever, but like, and I'm not saying we'll never do one of those, but I'm not at the place now where, like, I just want to rehash that episode. 

01:44:29 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Yeah, because I did feel like it came across in like poor jest as a person who's listened to every episode and enjoys this show barry, horse and matt I think it's matt trenhill yeah, still my two favorite episodes. The simon hunter one won't even crack my top 10. It was entertaining in the moment. I will never rewatch it. I got it. 

01:44:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well it's, it's not a learning. You're not. So a rec person. Someone who's just pure rec might learn something from that episode, because the whole notion of syndicates or whatever, um, yeah, you, maybe, maybe you'll learn something. You'll be like, oh, but a rec person is just as likely to watch that episode, in my opinion, see it in the comments of that episode as well and say, like, these hosts are like haters, they don't know what they're talking about and it's really just doing, it's doing fan service to like our core audience. And you want to do that. Sometimes you do like you want people coming back, but you want to do it Like, don't want to do it all the time and make it a consistent thing Um, plus CV, minus CV. Uh, we'll end off the show here. Uh, I got. Do you want me to throw to you first, do you? 

01:45:35 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I've got both mine Okay. 

01:45:36
Go for it Okay, plus CV, uh, pre tipping, um, and I'll tell you three spots where it pays off. You end up going to a wedding, right, and everybody wants to grab some drinks all night and then they'll tip. What I do is I pull out a nice bill I won't say how much Slap it on the table and say, hey, man, looking forward to the night, this is my drink. I never wait in line. After that there's 20 people at the bar crowded. He sees you Over here, drink in line. 

01:46:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
After that there's 20 people at the bar crowded. Sees you. Yeah, over here, drink ready. Just because I pre-tipped him, this is, this is a absolute pro move. I'm totally with you on this. I actually I talked about stags on this program before. I had a stag on friday night pulled the same move right away. Yeah, make sure that that bartender sees you right away. Thanks very much. Whatever boom the rest of the night, it's ready to go do it at, uh, copacabana too. 

01:46:25 - G-Stack George (Guest)
copacabana is an all-you-can-eat brazilian steakhouse and they got like 20 different types of steak and they'll constantly bring it around and cut you off a piece at a time, one piece usually and move on. But there's like four really good meats, right, the ones with, like parmesan steak. There's the four bangers right. You make sure you tip two different waiters right Early, and every time they get that you'll be the first table that gets there and he's cutting you off a second piece and he's taking care of you because you pre-tipped. Yep, totally agree. Great move. Pre-tipping. That's a positive EV move in your life. 

01:47:01
Minus EV. Minus EV is hosting a party. Okay, it's say the party goes from 5pm to 11pm or depends on what kind of party it is, I guess and you've got to spend the day before probably shopping everything. Then you got to get up a few hours earlier and prep the food and cook and everything, and then, while the party's going on, you drink. Okay, you got to play hostess. And then, when everybody's gone now you've got the reality. I got to clean this place. It's going to take me another eight hours, so that six hours of enjoyment that the guest gets it costs you about two days worth of headaches just to make things go smoothly. So I think hosting a party negative EV move. 

01:47:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Man, you're, you're we man, we're on the same page. Today I got to play this one for my wife. We host a Christmas party every year, but my wife God bless her soul it's a Christmas games party. We did this for the BetStamp office a couple years ago. Zach will remember this as well. But she comes up with unique divides people in teams. We buy like a different color stocking for the teams or a toque or whatever. It's like this whole ordeal. But I'm part of like the whole planning and the setup and the cleanup and they're there for like four hours. You know everyone's got kids. They got to wait till their kids go down or they can get a babysitter. You know they're over at nine. They're leaving at like one in the morning because they got kids and they got to deal with them the next day. It's a struggle. I'm not. I love parties, don't get me wrong, but I don't like hosting them. 

01:48:34
Never never Plus EV. I just did some recent traveling. We had call customer service Josh on a couple weeks ago. I customer service Josh on a couple weeks ago. I gave him this pro tip several years ago when I was doing a lot of traveling for work and just to like meet different bedding partners in different cities and stuff like that. But my wife often wouldn't come with me for a lot of these and her choice. I would always always ask, but she would message me when I'm there how are things going? You know, when I come home, how was the trip? I don't want to blatantly lie, but the plus ev move is to focus on the worst parts. You do not ever want to make your significant other or spouse, whatever, feel like they were really missing out on something. Yeah, because one. It just pisses them off and it's going to aggregate, aggravate them. Well, imagine, like while you're gone, your wife messages you and like how are things going? You're like, oh, best trip ever. Like she's just sitting at home now of like what the fuck? 

01:49:40
like he doesn't have this, this type of fun with me, or whatever, yeah and then, or when you get back, it's the same thing. So you really really have to focus in on the worst details and just ham it up, like my wi-fi was terrible, like I couldn't I could barely work what you know. This, the shower like bothered me the whole trip because the water was too cold. Whatever it is, just do not make the trip sound too good if you're traveling without your significant other and then you got to sprinkle in. 

01:50:09 - G-Stack George (Guest)
You know, if you were here it would have I could have got through this a lot easier yes you got to let them know that they could have enhanced this terrible trip that you had I a hundred percent. 

01:50:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
And then she'd be like, oh, maybe next time I'll come with you, next time comes, comes, doesn't really wanna come, whatever, it's fine. But I travel with my wife. We do our own vacations. We both afford each other the flexibility to have our own time. So she wants to go on a trip with her friends. Whatever, go on a trip with your friends. If I wanna do the same thing, we do that. But do not return and say it was unreal, like, oh, you missed this view. Look at these pictures. I got do not do that. So, uh, it was a tip I gave to uh call customer service many years ago and I stand by it as plus ev, minus ev. 

01:50:57
While I was on this said trip, I went from bet bash directly to nashville, tennessee, drove to jefferson city to play mini golf against Rufus, who I beat, by the way, that 1-1 series. But on the way home we flew back out of Knoxville, tennessee. So I'm at Knoxville, I'm at the airport, I'm going through the line at the airport at security line, and there's like all these pictures in line and Zach will bring them up on screen here If you're listening, you'll just have to hear me describe them. But it's a picture of a gun and bullets and it says, like Officer Stanton prevented this gun from getting on a recent flight. And as you go through the line there's more of these Officer McConnell prevented this gun from getting on a recent flight. Six bullets here, officer Stanton, again Officer Fiore, and I'm like why the fuck would the airport put these in the lot? Like do they think they're doing a like service? What if Officer Stanton's not working today? Like am I in big trouble? Because he didn't prevent. 

01:52:03
I didn't even know there was this many people trying to bring guns on a flight. Now I'm freaked out. Now I'm in the line. I'm like, holy fuck, all these are within the last month. There's just five pictures here of people trying to bring guns onto the flight with like a full magazine. 

01:52:18
I'm like what is going on here? Like why your airport, you wanna put people at ease, yeah, yeah. Like your one goal is make things go as smooth as possible. I don't want to know that this happens. This is absurd, officer. Like I never even seen guns that look like this in my life before. Officer Welsh prevented this gun from going on a flight. Don't do this stuff If you are in air travel, if you're working, like if you run an airport, make the customer, like the air traveler, make it as safe as possible. I don't want to know that this shit happens. This is forever stuck with me. Now I'm going to be at every airport Like what does this guy have in the bag? Granted, at least these things are getting caught. There's like a little bit, but who knows, who knows what gets through. So don't, if you're in air travel, if you know someone in air travel, get rid of these. Make people feel safe at the airport. 

01:53:10 - G-Stack George (Guest)
Oh, totally, totally unrelated, but kind of related because I love the sidebar. I'm in panama, uh, on a boy's trip, and we end up going to a club downtown and we get into the building and then my buddy says out loud he goes, we didn't get patted down at the door, did we? I go, oh, thank you man. Now this is the worst night on. I'm like hyper aware of everybody. I'm like, and I didn't notice that, but he had to plant that seed in my head because now I'm thinking who the hell is strapped in here and who isn't? 

01:53:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Just because you said that comment. It's the idea of don't bring awareness to something that I probably don't want to know about. We'll end off on uh. One other thing I just want to tell you. So your niceness, yes, of giving up your bet bash ticket to a friend of mine. Oh, zach's gonna put up the uh the image on screen here, so you told me can't go to bet bash. If you've got a friend that wants to go, just give him the ticket and he'll be there. My friend, giancarlo Peruzza, came out with me to Bet Bash, ended up playing a $300 no limit hold'em event at the win and he won it for $9,936. 

01:54:18 - Zack Phillips (Other)
There's a picture of him up on screen. 

01:54:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You can see it here with these pocket pens that he's holding as the winner. That's awesome funny how things come together. Because he may not have made it out for that trip ultimately gets a ticket, goes and uh and wins himself almost 10k and for canadian, with the exchange rate, that's roughly 13 what is that? 

01:54:38 - G-Stack George (Guest)
the butterfly effect? That that's what just happened there pretty crazy. 

01:54:42 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So being a nice guy actually does. Uh, you're a guy who believes in that stuff, in the karma, so I mean, um, good for you for for giving that up and and not asking anything of it because, uh, at the end of the day, it came through. Check out george's podcast. It's right here on the circles off youtube channel and in audio form as well. It's called 90 degrees. He interviews different people from around the betting space bookmakers, bettors, entertainers. Uh, does a really good job with it. Other aside from what bet pot rating says about him, I actually think he does a really good job with it and the feedback has been predominantly very good, as have the analytics, which I care about the most. So, check out 90 degrees for sure. If you are in ontario, check out pinnacle and, again, play responsibly. If you are going to sign up, use code hammer when doing so, as it helps support the show I have one last thing. 

01:55:32 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Uh, you're listening to this on thursday. If you're listening to it on thursday or friday morning, uh, rob, I think we can say the sports book on friday. Uh, brad powers, parker fleming. Uh, douglas, farmer from the hit the books channel, as well as myself, will be at Circa Sports in there doing a live show on Friday, 1 pm Pacific time, 4 pm Eastern time. So you can come say hi to us there before or after the show, preferably not during the show. That would be appreciated if you don't do that. And then Saturday, we have a booth at Circa as well, so you can come say hi to us. We'll be in there watching the games as well. So if you want to come, stop by, but before then, even if not, you can check out the show on HitTheBooks HQ YouTube channel. 

01:56:11 - G-Stack George (Guest)
I look forward to it. 

01:56:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
HitTheBooks has been cooking lately. We're actually going to have to get like. I'm going to have to put my foot down, so I'm not exaggerating. I've probably tried to get Kanish a mic a dozen times. He either rejects it, says he's getting his own mic, he complains that it's the cord that he has, or there's always some excuse. But it's actually getting enough viewership right now that, like we can't, zach, we cannot have this happen anymore you have to pay him for the permission to put the mic in his house. 

01:56:42 - G-Stack George (Guest)
He needs an incentive. A new mic is not clearly an incentive enough for him. He needs, he wants something extra. 

01:56:48 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's holding out for a better deal well, he can't use one of these that we have here, because he's laying down on his couch when he records most of the shows right so we have to get him a headset or something. 

01:56:57
But we have to get him something. So that's going to happen for all the listeners. Have hit the books. I saw doc better out there started a gofundme to get condition you mike, we don't need the money to get him a mic, we just need him to actually accept them. I'm scared we'll order an amazon package to his house and he'll just say, like, no, take this away or leave it out there because he doesn't want the mic. So we will get that done. Hit the books, he's going. Well, definitely check that out as well. This has been episode number 116 for myself, rob Pizzola for G-Stack George for Zach Phillips behind the desk. Thank you very much for listening. Make sure you smash that like button and we'll catch you next week.