00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off. Johnny's back in the co-host chair. We're going to get to a wide variety of topics, including producer Zach making some minus EV moves, and we're going to react to the RJ Bell Dream Podcast talking about content creators in the space. What's acceptable, what's not. All that and more. This week's episode of Circles Off starts now. Come on, let's go. Welcome to Circles Off, episode number 117, right here on the Hammer Betting Network. Rob Pizzola, joined by Johnny from BetStamp, back in the co-host chair. How are things Back? 

00:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
after a week off. You guys survived, don't you? 

00:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it was good, we got a lot of views last week's episode. 

00:39 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Yeah. 

00:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
How does that make you feel? 

00:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Just waiting to be you guys, let me know no, it's a good. 

00:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was a long episode so I think a lot of people um wanted to hear it and george's origin story as well. G stack what a nice, what a nice guy. He is a good dude. He gave me a little cigarillo when he left last week because I said I think I think I mentioned I wish I had like a cigar for the golf. He's like oh smoke, one of these. 

01:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
When he came in here last time, he gave me a beautiful bottle of scotch that I was enjoying just out of the blue. What a just a genuine no occasion gift. 

01:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I appreciate that. I mean he brought each of us so me, you and Zach behind the glass a bottle of scotch. 

01:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, george Rob actually sold his. He Rob actually sold his. 

01:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He flipped it for a profit For double the money, disrespect I actually am enjoying mine. Thank you. No, I never would do that. But on top of that he did the interview here with Cabby. He gave him a Kobe Bryant rookie card. Yeah, I know, I was looking those up on eBay. I mean, there's probably a couple dimes for that card. Yeah, Cabby's like a budget there was no budget for 90 degrees budget is yet yet there will be number 17, 17 elia kovalchuk greatest jersey the powder blue falcon thrashers. 

01:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What am I saying here, atlanta thrashers? Powder blue. 

01:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Down the sleeve, that's a jersey philip rivers is my favorite, number 17. He will not get in the hall of fame because that scumbag eli manning will, because he won the two super bowls. But if you go back to that draft class rivers, rothlisberger, eli, poor rivers just could never get it done, man poor you almost came out of retirement last year. 

02:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If san fran won the, won the nfc I actually saw that story. 

02:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That would have been really, that would have been bananas. Oh man, rivers has the chance to win the super bowl you would have 100 million percent not won. The super bowl leaves his wife at home with his 20 kids he's got a lot of kids. 

02:36
I think he's got double digit kids. I think his wife's pregnant again. Yeah, rivers, uh, I could never book him as a guest when I was a radio producer. The easy way to book guests if you want to book an athlete, obviously you contact the team. Rivers I could never book him as a guest when I was a radio producer. The easy way to book guests if you want to book an athlete, obviously you contact the team. 

02:53
But the PR guy depending on how big your station is or whatever they're always going to give you the best players from the team. So you might reach out for Phillip Rivers and they'll be like Phil's not available, but this guy is, or whatever Middle linebacker. Okay, sure, We'll do an interview, have some fun, but you would always be able to get guests by, like saying you'll promote their products. So I got like Drew Bledsoe once, because we were promoting like his winery, or Charles Woodson, the exact same thing. Or if they were playing in like a charity tournament. It's like we'll have you on and we'll talk about your charity golf tournament. They're like, boom, we'll do it, but Phillip rivers every single time. I still love Phillip rivers, but it was always like we'll make a live donation to the rivers of hope foundation. Like live on air. And we still couldn't get them to do it. He's the only guy ever that just like completely turned me down. 

03:41
Yeah, tough bounce it's a tough bounce wendell clark speaking of something dark, 17 that won't let you down. Pinnacle sportsbook. Oh man, that was so good. That was actually really good. I wish I could have thought of that. There you go, one one week out of the seat, all of a sudden he's coming back with fresh new ideas. 

04:01
Pinnacle is the world's sharpest sportsbook available to bettors. In Ontario, we often preach line shopping here on Circles Off, and we're going to do that over the course of the football season, but year round, and I think that's one of the most critical aspects of betting. I'd never consider betting without Pinnacle as one of my sports books because of their everyday competitive odds. We've shown that here on the Circles Off channel I competitive odds. We've shown that here on the circles off channel. I recorded a video online shopping a week ago as well and you can check that out right here on circles off. But they do have the most competitive odds in the entire industry. So bet smart, bet pinnacle. They've been your trusted sportsbook for the past 25 years 25 years in business for pinnacle sportsbook. And use code hammer when signing up. It's a way of supporting the show. So do that. You must be 19 plus not available in the US and, as always, please play responsibly. 

04:50
Today's show is going to be an interesting one. I waited for you to get back to do this one in specific, so talked a little bit about this with G-Stack last week about the BetBash panel. You showed up at BetBash as well. You were in the room for, uh, the hostility between me and revel, which, by the way, this guy came after me on twitter again this week. He posted a picture of him winning a bunch of parlays and he's like oh see, pizzola, like parlays aren't bad, or whatever. Guy completely missed, missed the point, then proceeded to say that he was like a winning parlay better. 

05:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It took probably about 30 seconds for someone to find his action network historical record and he was trying to explain that that there's no way to hack it on the action network app, which is obviously ways to hack it on any app. Of course, definitely he's like there's no way it could possibly happen rob and then he's like you don't understand how a tracking app works. 

05:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And you're just like darren don't tell me how a tracking app works it was so frustrating, man, it was actually so frustrating to deal with that. But, uh, there was another podcast which talked about this bet bash panel. So on rj bell's dream preview there was an episode called bet bash 2023 the after party panel. And today what we're going to do on the show is we're going to listen to a lot of that specific episode and we're going to react to it. And I have not heard this. Johnny has not heard this. Our producer, zach, listened to the whole thing, so he's going to steer this along and maybe we'll move and jump from here to there as time goes on. But the reason we're going to do this is because, when this podcast came out, we got dozens upon dozens of messages about this specific pod and what we thought about it, and apparently, I mentioned by name, johnny's mentioned by name. Oh really, that's what they. It's what they tell me. What do they even say about me? Well, I uh, I don't know, but judging by the cast here of who was part of this, we have rj bell. Judging by the cast here of who was part of this, we have RJ Bell, who's the owner of Pregame. We have Steve Fezzik, who appeared right here on Circles Off Episode link in the description below. I think one of our better episodes ever. Aj Hoffman I have no idea who that is. Scott Seidenberg I know exactly who that is, I'll explain and Mackenzie Rivers. So the description of this is these five people discuss Bet Bash, las Vegas. Very plain and simple. 

07:09
Before we get into it, I think it's important to preface just for the interest of being like. I don't want to say unbiased, because there's generally biases, but just let the audience know what we think of these people generally speaking. But just let the audience know what we think of these people generally speaking. So Scott Seidenberg as I mentioned, when I worked for Prediction Machine, I did a weekly hit with Scott Seidenberg on NBC Sports Radio. He eventually went over to VEASAN where I continued to do hits during the football season on his show on VEASAN. 

07:45
Scott is a great guy. He is not an expert in betting and I think he would definitely admit that, but he's really taken a fondness to that over the course of the years. I think he's a very real person who is obviously opinionated, as most people who are in radio are. We do like to hear our own voices, but I don't think he would be upset if I said he's not an expert in betting, rj Bell, where do I start? I infamously tweeted in 2014, which Zach has actually pulled up on the screen here. You can mock RJ in Vegas all you want, but he provides some great info on a week-to-week basis. Good stuff here, and I link to a pregame forum. 

08:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I've never deleted this I don't delete tweets. 

08:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um, so you need to delete a couple tweets, have I? No, I haven't deleted to. If there might have been a time where I tried to scrub, um, some stuff for one specific company, which I won't say, where I was trying to get hired by that company, but I think that's the only time I've ever deleted tweets. Fair enough, listen, I don't delete tweets. I don't and this is a reminder because this one would have been out the door a long time ago. So you don't believe this now, or you do. I do not because, like, this was 2014. 

08:59
I was a recreational better. I was working in radio, like I mentioned, betting the NFL. I was working in radio, like I mentioned, betting the NFL. I was very much like into the short-term trend stuff Like this team is whatever and whatever coming off of a bye week. That was the type of stuff that mattered to me and that's the kind of stuff that RJ was putting out at that time. I don't now believe that that was valuable at all. 

09:20
I was also interviewed two years later for an article that came out on Deadspin. I believe the author was Ryan Goldberg. The article was called how America's Favorite Sports Betting Expert I don't know turned. It was basically a hit piece on pregame, okay, and it was led by another, better, that went by Jacob Wheatley Schaller. At that time he vegas watch on twitter, um, but essentially none of my stuff ever made it into that article and it wasn't directed specifically at rj bell, but it was directed at the philly godfather at that time, um, but it was really eyeopening for a lot of people in terms of how these betting businesses do, tout services do, and I think in that particular article we'll link to the article in the description. We're not going to read through it. It's very long If you want to take your time to do it, but I think what the author did was broke down pre-games history in terms of here's who wins, here's who loses, and then here's how many win, on top of the cost you have to pay for the subscription, which was how many? 

10:31
I think it was one but that was just variance yeah, I think it was one person that won with the subscription. So anyways, rj, I believe, then threatened litigation against deadspin and got some of the things in that article revoked, or he was able to put his own words into it as well. So if you do read it now, there's also commentary from RJ within there. But to say that he's a polarizing individual would be understating it. There's definitely a group of people Contrarianville, known as Seaville a lot of people who give us negative comments for our show or whatever doesn't matter to me but that hate RJ Bell. So there's a community that just despises the guy and thinks he's the worst person on earth. I'm not saying I believe that I don't hate a lot of people. I don't think that there's some things with his business that are absolutely not right, but I don't think all touts are scum either. 

11:29
So there's like a fine line. Steve Fezzik we shared our thoughts on Fezzik. Again, there's people out there that despise Steve Fezzik. I'm not one of those people. Do I think everything he does is right? Absolutely not. I think that there's a lot of conflict with the pick route that he's taken, but I don't hate on the individual himself. So it is a group of people that our core audience would probably want us to be very harsh on them. I'm just stating the facts here. I'm going to speak my mind as if I didn't know any of these five people. 

12:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Essentially, yeah, for mine, I don't know any of them personally. I met for like one minute at bet bash. I was actually hoping to talk to him more, but uh never got the chance. Like it's crazy busy there, like constantly moving around, getting pulled in all different directions, um so, yeah, no, but I don't. I don't even really know RJ Bell. Obviously you know who he is RJ in Vegas. Rj in. 

12:30
Vegas. Yeah, I can't say I've listened to any of this stuff as well, so we'll see. It'll be an organic reaction from me, that's for sure. 

12:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, zach let's hit it. 

12:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Let's hit it. 

12:49 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Imagine a siren Emergency edition of the pod and we've got the man that everyone's talking about or at least he's amongst the crowd that's being discussed Steve Fezzik, who was on a panel down at Circa. There was a Bet Bash event and somehow someone canceled and he got on it yeah, was it the B team. Is that the? 

13:12 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
fair way to say it. The money came in against this panel being popular as soon as the lineups got reported. I disagree. 

13:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This is the best panel by a mile, so the name of the panel was? 

13:24 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
it was a Rodney King echoing of why can't we all get along? 

13:27 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Twitter wars. Why can't we all get along? 

13:30 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
You know, I could have made this real simple and could have skipped the panel, because most sports bettors that make money or almost make money are assholes. That is pretty accurate. 

13:41 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
I mean, we could just say that and say let's wrap up, boys. 

13:44 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
I'll meet you down at the bar. 

13:45 - BetBash Panel Member 3 (Caller)
What's wild is how he looked Fez straight in the eye when he said that Like didn't feel bad about it at all. Whoa, don't? We all know that? We all know that guys who make money betting sports and win super contests, particularly multiples, are assholes. 

13:59 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
No, I didn't say that. I said that's a unique group with an underbelly of sweetness that isn't obvious. It takes years to say here's what we're going to do, though. If you haven't heard, we're going to set the scene Now. This is one of those. You know, there's an old saying why are the fights so tough in academia, where there's, like, some professor of archaeology that's mad at some other professor, and it's so intense, and the answer to that question is often well, that's all they've got. What you have is people who, if you're good, you could have done something else. There's very few people, I know, that really win at sports betting. That couldn't have been a lawyer, couldn't have been a professor. Usually their IQ is sufficient. Would you agree with that, fede? 

14:46 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Yeah, the bar is so high and requires such a level of competence to win significantly at sports betting. So you're complimenting yourself right now. 

14:53 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Yeah. 

14:55 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
So you're saying to be me. To be me. If you're going to make six figures a year, betting sports means you should be able to bet seven figures if you'd gone to Wall Street or something else. 

15:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean, there's some element of truth to that. 

15:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean honestly no, there's honestly no. I disagree with that. 

15:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay in the sense of well, I mean, I don't do that because I can't get a higher paying job than I make off sports, but I think that there's a lot of people who take less just to bet sports than they could be making elsewhere. 

15:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's like what do you? It's like comparing a different thing in life, though. Like it's basically like saying, oh, if you were a doctor, you could have became. You're making 300, something thousand as a doctor. You could have become a lawyer and make 400,000. 

15:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like, yeah, it's a different job, though, like you, you want to be a doctor, you want to be and actually the path of lots of sports bettors is starting with a full-time job and then just quitting that because they've now exceeded that income. 

15:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, like, personally, like I would never want to be a lawyer, like that's not my style, like I wouldn't want to. I just don't not passionate about that, don't want to do it Right, wouldn't like? If you told me, hey, you can make whatever, make $10 million right now, you're going to be a dentist for the rest of your life I'd be like, nah, fuck that I'm with you genuinely, yeah, no, I think I'm. 

16:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm kind of with you. It's probably even more money than that, but uh, I think they're just setting the stage now for whatever conversation that we're gonna get into. 

16:12 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Uh, go ahead zach rating scheme, that that wasn't even gambling related, that phil was somehow involved in. You know, it's interesting that anyone can be diminished like that. If you go unconventional, if you don't go with society says be a doctor, be a lawyer, be whatever that has credentials in front of it and you better toe the line or we'll kick you out of the club. But if you're in this club, you know you toe the line. Well, guys like Fez doesn't like that. Wild men like that. Well, you know what most people who don't like toeing the line, they are human still, most of them, and they want to be affirmed. Well, how do you get affirmed? In sports batting you can win super contests, but there's a reason people, a lot of pros, hate, hate the fez's one, two of those because it does affirm him and it can't pause, pause, pause. 

17:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The super contest. It's, it's, yes, it's a game of skill, but the amount of like, that's not a different thing. 

17:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It doesn't affirm anything. 

17:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It actually it actually doesn't affirm anything like I would like the guy who won the circa millions contest last year. 

17:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, could be a losing sports better. 

17:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We don't even know that yeah, he might be a winner, he might be a loser, but that he won the circa millions. Like I'm not staking that guy to bet this year that's what I'm saying yeah, I wouldn't stake him to win the super contest this year because he won last year. 

17:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So this is already a disagreement for me as well. Like I don't think that. Um, I think maybe football contests over a long period of time there's like he did win twice. 

17:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
whatever, I'm sure he's playing optimal strategy. He's picking games right, but that's not that big a deal. 

17:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Different time, different number of entrants. There's a lot of things that matter. 

17:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's also a stale line pool. You just pick the odds. It's nothing to do with market reading. There's no bet sizing, there's no positions, no opposition. Regular betting is way more of a indicator of skill than winning a super contest agreed, I'm not trying to diminish the feats of winning contests. By the way, I'm just saying that this does not affirm anyone as being like a great better. I've never won a super contest, so I've never been in a super I've never won. 

18:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've never come within 10 games of winning one of the contests are you in this year? Yeah, circa mill, circa mill, to the max I got the five entries and the 10 survivors. 

18:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, see you on the I like to piss away money. I'll see you on the car, I'll see you on the course away money. Meet me on the ninth green at nine the, the super the circa millions this year. So I'll say this for everyone I truly believe there will. There should be an overlay. Derrick stevens, former uh friend of the pod, he has well former guest of the pod, current friend, current friend derrick, it's guaranteed up eight milli prize pool. 

18:56
Doesn't look like they're gonna get to the eight mil, so there will be some overlay, also circa millions. So many people forget to put in the picks. Yeah, so many people forget to put in the picks. Yeah, so many people forget to put the picks in. I'm saying right now, based on the prize structure, there's already no VIG right. So technically, if you randomize the fact that there's an overlay, plus people forget the picks. If you just use a randomizer each week, like go online and be like randomize, like, uh, whatever, mark each game 1 to 32 or something each team, and then just like randomize it five numbers, use those plus ev for the year it very well could be the case. 

19:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I last year looked like it wasn't going to fill and there was a ton that came in late, so it's still possible, but it didn't fill last year anyways, it was very close, small overlay, and they raised it from six mil to or five or six mil to eight mil. 

19:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So unless it grows another, you know yes this guy grow, you know decent percentage chance I think, and plus the entries are max at five. 

19:55
Yeah, survivors 10. Yeah, you can only do five super contests. This is where we're promoting the contest. Go sign up for your invades. I think it's a good value bet. Also, circus guaranteed. A lot of people do these, these pools and stuff, especially around here, like cash pools. They'll be like, oh, it's a 50 grand prize, it's all good. These ones are 8 million prize pool for if you win the survivor contest, obviously it's harder to win. Entry costs thousand bucks us man, that's fun. 

20:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's real life changing money. That's fun. It's fun, agreed, you're not even getting bad value. 

20:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
They don't take a VIG on that. So even if it goes, so let's say 8 million, but let's say a million people sign up. It's not like the prize is only 8 million and the prize will be whatever the thing is, circa doesn't take a VIG. 

20:39 - Zack Phillips (Other)
So totally agree. Anyways, when I win, I'm not retiring, just so you know, rob. 

20:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh, you know what is negative? Ev though, save it, save it. No, no, no, no, no. It needs to come up right now. Okay, you know what is negative EV Heard from a buddy of Zach's? 

20:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh no, you fucked up something with the insurance. No, okay. 

20:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This guy you entered in circa millions. Yeah, this guy paid 35% for his proxy service. Oh, that's tough man. What, how? 

21:12 - Zack Phillips (Other)
much you pay for your proxy. Okay, hold on, I use your proxy. 

21:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Matty Simo. 

21:20 - Zack Phillips (Other)
But, how many entries did you buy One? 

21:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And how much money did you pay for the proxy? 

21:24 - Zack Phillips (Other)
We got the Saturday extended one, so whatever that is, oh, so it's, it's more buddy. 

21:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, Because you can. You can wait to so a lot of the proxy services. 

21:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, I know, but how much did you pay? So it's a thousand for the entry. How much are the proxy? 

21:37 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Uh well, I don't know what it is. I was told it was 350 bucks. 

21:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, I don't know for sure, but I will say every proxy has a service. This is what it's become. But you either pay for your like the. They're charged more for the extended signup time. 

21:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I know when you can get right you got one entry and paid 350 bucks, If that's the correct number for the proxy. So you paid a000 for the entry. You paid $1,350 for the entry. There's your EV down the drain on the proxy. 

22:04 - Zack Phillips (Other)
So you're earning your EV. If you did that, that's Canadian, though, obviously. 

22:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, sorry, that's like $1 US. Yes. 

22:11 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Okay, but that's also not 30%, though. 

22:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We're going to get to the bottom. If it was $350, then you need some receipts above 30%. 

22:20 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Well, no because $1,000 US to Canadian. 

22:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So what is it? $300 Canadian, $350 Canadian. 

22:30 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I can pull up the exact receipts of how much I paid you paid 26% VIG. 

22:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Sorry, my bad the nose, canadian versus US. Still, though, anything above that's too much VIG. You can't be getting one entry. Pool it with someone, get the same proxy. And also, the worst part, is this One of the most negative EV thing. Ask around, buddy, you don't have any friends. You couldn't ask me, I would have got you a free proxy Done. 

22:54 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Easy. I did ask around. That's how I ended up with the proxy that I have. Who did you? 

22:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
ask. 

23:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You asked me, so there's your first mistake. Well, listen, here's the thing I'm. I'm only gonna ever advocate for someone who has never, ever made a mistake for me or anyone that I know. This is the issue. So proxy services are a whole nother topic of conversation, but there's always every year a nightmare story with a proxy service. Now I'm I know what you're gonna say about your proxy service not like a technical proxy potentially might be a better that we mutually know that would just make the picks on his behalf, but even then it's like there's nothing, there's no protection on his end. 

23:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course, but what I'm saying is this what good is having a full-fledged insurance policy if you're paying more than the cost of the insurance, like if you're paying more than what's worth? You're paying 350 bucks, okay, again, canadian us, it's about 260 for the listeners here, paying a thousand bucks entry for the contest yeah, 260 bucks for the proxy yeah, obviously, listen, you don't have to be a genius. It doesn't add up. Sorry, zach, is what is? I don't mean to chirp you. If it's less than that, all good, but that's. Those are the numbers I was told. That's what. That's why I'm going off that decision. If you pay 25 bucks, 50 bucks, then I'll take it back. I'll say fine. 

24:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will guess that this was a heat of the moment thing for you. You had like one last day in Vegas. 

24:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You need a proxy to sign up with you, so if you don't have one, you can go right or call. 

24:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're all there. 

24:19 - Zack Phillips (Other)
They're hanging out there, set up that day, and then you said that this is your proxy. And then I followed him on Twitter and he was there set up. 

24:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He was the guy there. Early bird gets the worm. Good on that proxy, he got the money. 

24:32 - Zack Phillips (Other)
He's a good dude. He won't make any mistakes. 

24:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, no no, he's not going to make any mistakes, but nor will the regular proxy. 

24:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You can just check it. This Because lots of them you input your picks through a website. The website goes down Like this is what happened a couple years ago. I'm not going to say who it was, but a website goes down and everyone's picks don't go in for a week. Like that's horseshit, right, like you never want that to happen. 

24:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Of course you definitely don't want that to happen. 

24:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But what I'm saying is, like this guy will'm at the counter right now. You have three minutes. Call me, let's figure it out. 

25:07 - Zack Phillips (Other)
That's the type of guy he is. Let me just also set the scene for what was going on for me there. Just excuses for making a bad decision. I didn't go there planning to sign up Friday. I was working basically the entire time until 6 pm Vegas time. Then I went out with the guys that I was there working with still not planning on doing Millions or Survivor, and then at like 11.45 pm Friday night, vegas time, I get a text from someone asking me if I want to do the Survivor and I said sure, sunday morning or Saturday morning I get a text from someone else asking if I want to do the millions. 

25:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So wait are you in millions or survivor? 

25:50 - Zack Phillips (Other)
both. 

25:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I have one and one yeah, okay, is the 350 per entry, or was it for? 

25:56 - Zack Phillips (Other)
both cumulative. No, it was for the, that is, for survivor or for millions. Only survivor is like significantly cheaper. 

26:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The survivor proxy was significantly cheaper you could have just asked me, bro. Negative ev move of the week. 

26:14 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I legitimately had approximately five hours to get a proxy, find the proxy, meet up with them, fill out the papers, pay and do this because of of how last minute it was, because I was leaving that night and the proxy was leaving the sportsbook at 4 pm. 

26:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Sorry, I'm just going to Google. How long does it take to text someone? Is it under or over five hours? How's my response time on text? 

26:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He did in fairness, he did message me. No, usually it takes me five hours and I wouldn't change my messaging to him. For what? Because I know so many people who've gotten fucked in these contests just because they picked a bad proxy or they relied on a friend to put in their picks. So, yes, he's killing his EV. There's also proxies that won't take anything up front but they'll take a percentage of winnings where the EV is even worse. 

26:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
on those in a lot of cases the EV in those is better than the 350, I think Because your is better than the three, 50, I think Cause it depends on the percentage is not three, 50. 

27:04 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I mean, if it's yeah, it depends on the percentage. So also, the thousand was, at the time of conversion, 1500. What do you mean? Like it was $1,500 Canadian to enter? No, that's impossible, I have the receipts. 

27:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh my God, tell me, you paid a massive VIG on USD to cat as well. 

27:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
probably did zachary credit card or whatever. So your bank, you're probably your bank. 

27:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The exchange rate's a dollar 36, you pay a dollar 50. Yeah, bro, you literally could have got two entries instead of one zach, zach, zach, zach, it's it. We're ending this topic now. I'm gonna come off looking like an ass on this thing. But seriously, bro, next time only lesson here is message around, ask me help. You always ask friends for help. Anyone listening. Right now you're gonna do something. 

27:48 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I did, though I did ask friend for help. I got help, all right, so for anyone, you just disagreed with the person that it was no, I have to find the conversation. 

27:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
How was I supposed to find? The conversation if you still think that that was a good move. 

28:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Power to you guys that you think it was a good move to pay probably 1800 bucks for a canadian which for the equivalent you should have been paying a hundred. You should have been paying 1360 on the nose, canadian is correct. You paid upwards of 1800 bucks total to get this done it you've paid more for your less than eight. 

28:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I I have. But fair enough, I do have the receipts. It was zach phillips. How do you set up uh via proxy for the circa contests? I said you need someone to do it for you. I use maddie simo at vegas maddie. On twitter he put okay, thanks, I don't know. I don't know how we're gonna get to a resolution here. Disappointing I highly recommend maddie Simo again. 

28:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If you want to do one entry in Vegas for a super contest, I would highly recommend not converting your cash via credit card that I would also recommend. 

28:54
I would highly recommend not converting your cash via credit card at the ATM and then using at Vegas Matty for the one entry, but I'm sure he's reliable If you're getting the 10 full suite bang. Yeah, okay, now your vig per entry is lower like it's fine, but um, anyways, no, we have to this interview. Where do we go here? Where do we go? No, that's, that's already my negative ev move of the week. We really skipped a segment. I'm done for today. I'm not giving another negative ev. 

29:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, that's fair and we just did a lot of things a little out of order. 

29:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Hey, it's totally fine hey, honestly love you guys no no harm, you don't have to apologize to me. 

29:30 - Zack Phillips (Other)
No, no, it wasn't apologizing. 

29:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm. I love you guys. I just want the best. Zach trying to. We're trying to help you. 

29:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He has been trying to teach you like plus ev for a long time, but in all aspects of life you've applied it to sports betting but in all aspects of life you've applied it to sports betting, but in other aspects of life you have currently failed. 

29:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, no, he's been currently failed. He's been doing. He's been doing great. This guy's the best kid. I'm just saying ask for help Anyone on the camera, if anyone listening to this or watching this. 

29:58
If you're going to look to do something right away, you're gonna look to do something new. I know we messaged Rob, but the best thing you can do is have a network of people where you can message four or five guys hey, how do I get this reservation at this place? Hey, I'm looking to go here, I'm in this city. Imagine being in a new city, having five friends in that city, being able to ask them hey, what's the best thing for here? And then taking that in network super important, but you have to actually leverage it. And and then, on the other end, if somebody messages you, make sure you're providing value, giving out the stuff. If someone messages you, zach, hey, what do I do for this? How do I edit this thing on YouTube? You don't be like, oh well, yeah, I charge a hundred bucks for this. No, help someone out and someone will help you out. 

30:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a lot of the same principles we preach with sports betting. One is the line shopping. Obviously you, obviously. In sports betting it's a little different because no matter what you're getting, like the same bet. You know what I'm saying. 

30:45 - Zack Phillips (Other)
It's not the same services or whatever. 

30:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Exactly, you don't fair enough. Fair enough. The second thing is we preach not waiting to the last minute as well, and that is a could be a, a catastrophic mistake sometimes, because you put yourself in a, you know you don't have those options. A lot of times, when you wait to the last minute, the line moved. I agree with that the limits are way higher, the market's more efficient and he's learning a little bit about the efficient uh market yeah, well, okay, yeah, I get that, though, though I don't know no more excuses. 

31:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You admit. Admit it was a mistake, you paid too much. Move on, win the contest, prove me wrong, that's it. Win it and then be like, oh 350?. 

31:23 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah Well, I don't feel so good about the chances of winning the millions because of one third of my team. 

31:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He has laid with Luke on his team Well you could go for the booby prize then. 

31:33 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yes, no, no, he's not going to listen to this. So I already talked to the other guy in the. We'll submit the picks the first two weeks. You and I sit down. We reevaluate where we're at after the first two weeks. If things aren't going well, we just get luke's picks every week for the rest of it and then we just go from there and see what we're doing. It's a good move, what it is. That's not a bad move. 

31:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah all right, bad move back to the pod here. 

31:58 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Sports betting no, there's no credentials that are given out based upon doing these internships or years of study. 

32:07 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Exactly so usually it's hey, he's a professor at Harvard, you can look at. I think his name is. Is it Cornel West Mackenzie? You probably know the guy he's running for president now. Yeah, cornel West Cornel. 

32:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
West. 

32:19 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Okay, so is that true? I'm a fan. His presentation is awesome. Generally he's a very bombastic political guy. He's, I think, running for president now as a third party, but he was, I think, at Princeton for a long time. But when a guy comes on talking a little loud and they say, professor at Princeton, you've got to accept it. We're good, there's something there. Well, there's no such thing Now. That's why back in the day, sports betting, usually the voices of it were bookmakers. 

32:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Pause for one second, because if someone went to the MGM so I can tell you where this is going to go already. Right, this isn't the argument of like, who can police the sports betting space if there are no? Like how do we determine who the best bettors are? Cause, what he's saying right now is like okay, if you go to other industries, this is where it's going to go, this is where it goes. Is this where okay If? 

33:09
If, if other industries have like certificates, or you go to school to become a medical doctor or your professor, you, whatever there's, there's ways for them. Like there's a level levels of expertise right In the sports betting space. Like there's a level levels of expertise right in the sports betting space. You don't necessarily have that. This is the the common point that's brought up a lot of times. 

33:29
Um, and this is kind of like, if anyone is upset with the way that I handle myself or I call people out, I often get like well, who are you? Who are you? Who says that you're allowed to determine what's right and what's wrong? And my answer to that is I don't think that they're. I'm determining that. I'm just stating my opinion on what I think, and this is coming from someone who does this as a profession. Can anyone prove that? Or do they know how much income I make? 

33:53
No, but what it tends to happen in the betting community is people hear of one another or they hear like who's a stiff, who not to work with, who you should work with, who's one betting this stuff? I could tell you who's got the best WNBA stuff and best NBA stuff, even for people that I haven't worked with before just through word of mouth. So it's kind of like a community in a sense, if that's where this is going. But like this is often what happens and I'm getting way too ahead of myself here. But RJ Bell runs pregame. This is a conversation amongst pregame experts. They're selling a product. The hammer circles off. We're not technically selling a product, but we're still trying to monetize in our own way. So people are always like well You're always selling a product. 

34:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I've said this like a while back, right, even if you just have your own Twitter profile. Yeah, it's a tweet, you're selling something. You're selling something because you you're garnering an audience which garners attention, which gives you credibility to allow you to later sell yourself or something, or whatever, even if you're sellinged. Agreed, but he's. 

35:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's right, yes, okay, I'd like to see where this goes, zach, because this, this is a very common criticism of the space right now. 

35:09 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Doesn't matter how much they know you. In that article you can say MGM sport, but in truth those guys other than bookmaking don't know as much as the betters do typically. So my point here is if you're not validated, you're not credentialed and you have any ego, you want your mom to be proud of you. The only way to do that is to gain notoriety. So what you have is a lot of people on social media all acting like they're above, caring that all very much want to have enough followers or, back in the day, get a blue checkmark or whatever to validate them. And the theme that we're going to explore throughout Fez's TikTok he's going to do now of what happened is ask yourself does this help validate the person saying it? Because in almost every case, you can almost guess their position by what they could say. That would most validate the way they act. 

36:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's fair, I think, like the argument that I'm more likely to promote you know, line shopping and responsible betting and doing all these things because it has a more tangible impact on me. I think that's fair. Generally speaking, it's hard to separate, like your biases especially when you're involved with businesses from you know everything else, but this is this is a uh, an interesting conversation. Let's let's hear what Fezzik has to say in regards Dan. 

36:39 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Revell was going to say one thing and it's going to validate him. What Fezzik has to say in regards Dan Revell is going to say one thing and it's going to validate him. And, uh, person Fezz is going to say, typically, what validates him, just like humans do, and we should all know what the motivations are here. It's not always well in the abstract what I believe okay. 

36:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So this is. This is kind of like what bothers me about the whole thing and this is the kind of what I was saying on the the bet bash panel you were at. We're very clear about our motivations, right, and I'm not saying like I'm a saint, whatever. You know. We run businesses myself and Johnny. Right, we run the Hammer, we run BetStamp. We are trying to grow our businesses. 

37:19
I think the issue in the space is where, like, greed exceeds ethics, so to speak. Right, like there's a lot of people out there. So my whole thing was misrepresentation is a real problem. So, like with our businesses, we've been very upfront with people. Right, pinnacle's a sponsor of this show. I love Pinnacle. I've used Pinnacle since I've been betting for a long time. I'm happy to promote a product that I stand behind. 

37:54
When we're in the affiliate business, we send traffic to sportsbooks. We've been very clear that we make money off of that. That is how we monetize our business. We're very upfront about that. That doesn't mean that we try to send literally as much traffic possible to sportsbooks at all times or we'll promote anything Like there's an ethical line at some point or another, and I think that's where a lot of this gets blurred. 

38:19
And that's kind of what I was saying to Ravel. Like, obviously you guys, action Network, you have a subscription base, people can subscribe. You're an affiliate as well. I'm not saying you can't do those things, just do them in a way that's morally responsible. Don't have people coming on air and representing themselves as experts Like Ravel right now, in his mind, like based off the tweet he sent me this week, he thinks he's an expert in the betting space. 

38:43
Like he thinks he's become an expert. That's where we get into like dangerous territory, in my opinion. So, okay, who's gonna police this? Who can say what's right and wrong? But like, talking about parlays is bad for bettors. You can't consistently win at rob pazola with the, the, the spongebob type of uh, you're an idiot, yeah, you're an idiot characterization and posting his parlay winners over the course of a week and it's like, dude, you've completely like lost the plot. You won, you won some parlays on one day like you've, you've lost the plot and this is what's scary and dangerous in my opinion. So that that's kind of my thing like clearly dude. 

39:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He doesn't even know what a parlay is. Then if you say, like betting for this, just it's parlay. Betting is literally just betting and then betting more if your thing wins, it's the same. We've explained this a million times. Like a parlay is not a revolutionary thing. You're just doubling your bet amount and rolling it over, which is a very irresponsible for a recreational better agreed. 

39:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's kind of the point I'm getting across and like, listen, I say this all the time on the show as well. Right, you want to bet parlays? Go, bet, parlays, go do. Whatever you want to do. It's your own money, but just at least be aware of the of what you're doing when you're betting a parlay. On top of that, I would never give out a parlay myself or talk about teasers, like I do on pizza buffet on Sunday mornings, without providing some context as to what those bet types are and like the sportsbook hold and stuff like that. 

40:13
There's an opportunity just to air that stuff and people can make their own decisions at the end of the day, but 99% of the population population they don't get this stuff. Like, look at my, look back to my tweet from 2014 the rj bell one right like that's me. I don't get that. I don't get that at that time. Maybe that's like what incentivizes me now or motivates me. It's like I don't want people to go down the same path that I did for all those years. But yeah, I mean it's like I don't think this is like an apples to apples, let's hear more. 

40:47 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
It's ethical. It's usually what is going to make me seem better than everyone else. All right, faz, give us the tiktok all right. 

40:55 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
So the panel was uh moderated by sammy p out of chicago, but the big conflict was between you kind, you've got to wonder about the industry that. 

41:04 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
The moderator is Sammy P out of. Chicago. 

41:08 - BetBash Panel Member 4 (Caller)
Pananovich, panay and Tovich Out of. 

41:12 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Chicago sounds like it's like. 

41:15 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
I can't spell it, I can't pronounce it. He's actually out of Boston. 

41:18 - BetBash Panel Member 4 (Caller)
now he works for Nesson. 

41:20 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
He's the betting analyst for Nesson. Now he's validated right. Yes. 

41:23 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Alright, but really it started out guns a-blazin' here, with Ravel going up against Rob Pizzola and Rob basically calling out Ravel. 

41:33 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
So both are on the panel. 

41:35 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
They're both on the panel and saying you know what You're going out and you're giving out all this betting advice that is not respected amongst the expert sports bettors. 

41:46 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Oh, and giving yourself out. Where does that counsel meet the experts? 

41:53 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Is this like the wise guys smoking the cigars together? 

41:56 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Is this when the pope gets elected Is? 

41:57 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
your wife smoked. 

41:58 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Yeah, the smoke comes up and the like I'm just wondering because, right there and again I'll be honest with you I like Rob I mean, I've had personal dealings with him I listen to some or I listen to a pod he's on. 

42:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
For context it's RJ. 

42:12 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
The Matchbook pod. He is quite sanctimonious. He has a strong opinion about right and wrong and he seems to be the arbiter of that opinion that what's who's accepted and not who's sharp, who's not. 

42:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
he's in that club that's deciding it pause in my, in my viewpoint. I'm not. This, this is, can be how it's perceived from the outside in. I merely state my opinions, period. I don't expect every single person to adopt those opinions. I just want to put that out there. Like that's. 

42:45
I mean, fezik didn't do a great job of giving a recap of honestly like what this, the, the, the thing was so maybe he will yeah, maybe he's not providing like a ton of context here, but I'm you know, again, the issue with revel was misrepresentation and like coming across as if you have subject matter expertise that you don't. And again, yeah, like we can't all meet in a back, not all these. I'm just stating my opinion. That's all that's coming down. 

43:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, for those who weren't at the panel, I think rob. Rob came across as basically this he was like it's okay, you want to be a losing better, it's. It's fine, like not everyone's going to be that and it's still okay for you to be in the space making content, doing all these things, but it's not okay to represent yourself as a pro better who's going to help win if you follow my picks and also be a losing better. That's how, like rob came across. He mentioned a few other people in the industry as well, but back to the interview. 

43:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, but and I I just want to make it explicitly clear like I don't think that I'm the person that can, like, is deeming okay, you're a winner, you're a loser, you know you deserve to have a platform. You don't deserve. Like I have those opinions, but I don't expect that the entire industry is going to adopt them. Like that's not what this is about. 

43:56 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Isn't that? 

43:56 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
interesting. Yes, and he had consensus. So Dave Sharapan, who was on the panel, vegas wise guy, pretty much agreed with what Rob was saying. Jeff Benson, who runs the Circus Sportsbook he pretty much agreed as well. 

44:09 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
That. 

44:10 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Action Network was pushing the envelope towards giving themselves out as an expert providing expert picks, even though Darren Revell was like. Well, this is entertainment and we like to give these same game parlays and the like, and I bet everything that I give out. 

44:26 - BetBash Panel Member 4 (Caller)
So a couple of quotes here from the panel where Darren Revell admitted he's part of the problem. No, no. 

44:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
See again. Rufus put out a Twitter thread that says, like Darren Revell, I'm part of the problem. That was like taken out of context. Yeah, he never actually said so everybody's picked up on this and that that never happened. So, to darren revel's credit, he said it sarcastically and it was like as a part of a longer sentence. So anyways, keep scott's gonna keep reading out quotes, I think here, or whatever tip off of the whole. Thing. That was just the initial quote. 

44:58 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Now hold on a second. Now, if we were doing this, this against Fats? First of all, me and Darren Raval are nemesises at this point. I used to like Darren, in fact, the first TV hit I ever did was for him at CNBC, like 10 plus years ago. 

45:12 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Oh, I didn't know that. 

45:13 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Yeah, at some point, I mean, he became very. The reality is and we've seen this a bunch now people who don't know sports betting as experts are stepping in the industry. Now that's something that we've really strived when we brought in non-full-time sports bettors like AJ, like Scott, we make it, you know, when they their prior careers well, for you, your prior career was in the most recent was in the media for sports betting too, but then prior to that, nbc, et cetera, et cetera. So neither of them are going to say I'm like Fez, I'm betting what Fez is betting. I like that. I think, having other experts come in, like, for example, our baseball pod on Monday it's taping, tuesday it's released. We got a former professional baseball player, josh Towers, and he really knows baseball and we think, okay, okay, and he's been around batting, he's a Vegas guy, but he's not a professional batter okay, so I don't mind stuff like that. 

46:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We do this at the hammer. By the way, like we bring on Eric Eager of Sumer Sports as a football analyst, he's not a pro better. We never sell him as a pro better. We just sell him as a football analyst. Is what he is, which he is vp of analytics for sumer sports. We don't claim that he's a pro better or anything like that. 

46:28
And the reason why we have him on on forward progress on youtube, go and hit that subscribe button. We've got lots of nfl content coming up this year. But the reason we have him on is because I learned a lot from him and and like he provides context that is helpful for bettors. So I have no issues with that. But it's kind of different. Like, if I go to pregame right now, aj Hoffman, who's part of this broadcast, scott Seidenberg like these guys are selling picks on the platform. You know you have RJ right here saying, like these guys aren't expert sports bettors. I don't know. You know RJ right here saying, like these guys aren't expert sports bettors. I don't know, you know, I don't know. 

47:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Like isn't that not like super contradictory, like that he's calling them not pros and they're selling picks. 

47:14 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Yeah. 

47:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean, if the records are public and stuff, like anyone could sell anything. It's just a matter of being transparent. 

47:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
to be honest, yeah, well, okay, so there's like the marketing records that are here. You can click into picks on any one of these guys and you can see a full every pick ever. But you have to do it in such a convoluted way that I wonder if it's intentional or not. Like I can see the last 100 picks for someone, but if I had to, if I wanted to search from like january 2021 to now, I cannot do that. I literally have to click every single day in between and see the record by picks by day, picks by day. So it would be very, very, very challenging for me to go out and do something like that get a guy's record? 

48:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, without the power of like technology. 

48:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, but I don't mind, like I don't mind if people brand or like people produce content that aren't experts. Like I don't, I don't maybe I've I've been like poorly communicating this all along. I just think the onus is on the person to represent themselves as who they are rather than something that they're not. I think you push the ethical boundary when you start to do things that you're not Like. If Eric Eager came on every single week and were like listen to Eric, he's this great professional sports better, like that's crossing the line. In my opinion, that's not what he is, that's not how we want to represent him. 

48:45
That doesn't mean that you know, I'm not telling people who to throw out on air. Everyone has some sort of you know draw. It could be entertainment, it could be whatever. Just be real with the audience. Like that's the one, ask, ask. That's the biggest frustration for me in terms of pet peeve. So I mean I think the lot like for for rj to say that I think the lines are kind of blurred with pregame in the sense that, okay, you know, he's telling aj and scott, we hired you not because you guys are sports betting experts, but because, like you can contribute to a conversation type of thing. But they're selling picks on the site and maybe the counter is like well, all the picks are there for people to see and they can decide what they want, and maybe that's a fair counter. But I don't know, just seems a little bit contradictory. 

49:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Let's see what else they got to say on Pozzola yeah. 

49:36 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
To me that's a scum If a person's trying to feed me again we can always justify him. 

49:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's see what they've got to say about Pizzola. 

49:42 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
It's a different level of choice when it's the gutter or scam versus middle class or upper middle class. But you just got to scam. Those are the people I disrespect the most, you know personally. So I was always going to be able to make a living. I don't think ethically I would have been okay with anything to make a little bit extra that I couldn't feel good about myself. So you know, I'll just be candid. That's why I didn't even think about it. So we have the we'll call it the boiler room outbound calls. Now what you guys mentioned next, the flash, the bling. Listen, no names here. But we know a guy, fez, that probably the most mild mannered, probably the lowest monthly nut where he doesn't spend money, and he was working for a company that was pretty flashy for a while and they rented him. What was it like Sharkskin shoes he had. He this is a guy that literally had an 18 year old car rumbling and they had him rent in a Lamborghini, I mean. So now do we think that guy's evil? Yeah, that's the question. 

50:46 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yes, I've had a guy buy that alone $10,000 too, because he's like. 

50:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
In general renting sleazy marketing tactic. Okay, renting things in general? Yes, and giving the like, renting things is completely fine. Yes, and giving the like, renting things is completely fine. Yes, for the most part, it's fine. If you want to rent a Ferrari, drive it around for the day, enjoy it. What's wrong with that? You got the ability to experience driving a Ferrari. Agreed, renting it and then giving the appearance to others that you own it for the purposes of marketing. Something is very common, however, like yeah, it's just a marketing ploy. 

51:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is when profit becomes more important than ethics, and you don't care that this isn't you. You just want people to perceive you as this. Now listen, this is social media in general, right? Like, look at people's Instagrams and stuff like that. You're not posting stuff of like oh, look at like most people aren't. Like, oh, look how shitty my life is, or whatever. It's the highlight reel. 

51:46
But also sometimes it's not even the highlight reel. It's like fake, yes, but so like, listen, like there's an extension of this that just exists because we're like, we're conditioned to do this by social media. Like, you have lots of points in the day that aren't the finest hours for you over the course of a day, that are not going to make it to your Instagram reel or whatever, so are you misrepresenting yourself in that case? Maybe, like, I don't know. Like this is. It's a very different conversation, but I think this is like more around businesses, and especially when you're getting into the, into the whole territory of trying to turn a profit. So like, is that a scummy move? Yes, if I'm going to go out and like, rent, like or buy alligator skin shoes, that I'm going to go out and like, rent, like or buy alligator skin shoes, that I'm going to return at some point. Um, or a Rolex and like that's not mine or whatever, or a fake Rolex, exactly Play it off as a real Right Like that. 

52:31
That's just shady, that's like bullshit is what it is. So, yes, it sells. 

52:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It sells. I know that's the stuff that sells in the pick selling right now. Yeah. The stuff that sells in the pick. Selling right now is not even really the record, it's the whole like look how sick my life is. 

52:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Look at all the stuff. 

52:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I have. Yes, like you want this stuff, buy the picks, yes. 

52:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's weird Look at. Remember when we did that TikTok reaction episode where Zach wanted he was going to have a stroke. 

53:07 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I could see the nerve in his neck, the fact that rubicon was the car, though, was the comedy of that thing is that, like again, it's not a bad car, but but to flex it, to flex it from the passenger seat of the car like it was his own. 

53:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you know what I'm saying. There's his mother's car or something like that, but that that's the type of stuff that we can see. That here's the difference. Right, we can see that. Here's the difference. Right, we can see that 10 years ago, me could have easily been duped by that. And it's a cycle because people can be duped by it. Then it's just going to happen more and more because there's enough people out there that are willing to do that. But again, I'm probably gonna say it a million times in this episode For me, it's making sure that profit does not exceed ethics. Go ahead, zach. 

53:48 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
I literally had an 18-year-old car rumbling into the lot and they had him renting a Lamborghini, I mean. So now do we think that guy's evil? I mean, that's the question, right. 

53:58 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Misrepresenting. And I've had a guy buy that loan $10,000 too because he's like, hey, you know I'm going to be at the cameras, I'm going to be rolling, I need to be able to show that I'm making bets. You know, can you help me out with a little like you know? So just for today. No, this was like 10 years ago, oh okay. 

54:16 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
And when was the cameras? 

54:17 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
rolling close, okay, all right. 

54:21 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
So in this story, just to, if you're keeping score, fez had so much that he could have his money for the. You were involved in the shoot too, right? 

54:29 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
No, actually I was not. 

54:30 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Okay. Well, when I was on Ballers and I had that big water bill in my hand, was that yours? 

54:34 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Fez, it was not. 

54:36 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
No, okay Fez, can you come down with some money? 

54:38 - BetBash Panel Member 4 (Caller)
That was the rocks. 

54:44 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
I down with some money. That was the rocks. I tell you that I love, love that, because that was my idea. I just showed up, I go. You think he's a good prop, he goes. 

54:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm like all right good, did you ever watch balls? 

54:49 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
tight, you know. I mean, um, I don't think, I don't know how bad I think that is. I think that the very premise of instagram is misrepresenting your reality. Yes, right, isn't? There's all kinds psychological studies how everyone's judging themselves against this fake perception and that they all think they fall short. 

55:09 - BetBash Panel Member 3 (Caller)
Yeah, so if everyone's using a filter or makeup, like someone dressing up in fancy clothes is just like an ugly girl putting on enough makeup to come across as pretty. So you're judging girls again. No, I'm just saying that that happens and it's like no one says oh, she's a terrible person because she wears makeup. She's just trying to present herself in a certain way. We got a supervisor in. 

55:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So there's a lot of things here, but we also have to talk about the nature of the industry, which people just gloss over all the time. Right, we're in an industry that leads to a lot of addiction problems. You know what I'm saying. Like someone putting on makeup to make them, you know, to sell more. It's a day-to-day part of life. It's not going to send someone down a path of like they're going to be living on the streets because they bought too many nail polishes or or perfumes or whatever. You know what I'm saying. Sports betting is very different because there's an addiction element associated with it, Unlike 99.9% of the industries out there. 

56:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Right, I'd say more industries are the addiction focus than you realize, if you really think about it. 

56:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Very possible, yeah, definitely. 

56:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There's an element to that. We need to be careful in sports, buddy, yeah. 

56:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, like again, you can have like these debates where you're just like using all of these examples and it's like, well, do you call this like misleading? Do you call? In a lot of cases it's all misrepresentation, but in some cases it's much less harmful but honestly rob with my, my honest opinion, like it's like this in every industry. 

56:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Once you realize it and you really start to see, very possible like here's an. 

56:57
Here's an example. Okay, I'm not, I don't want to shit on like specific brands, okay, but let's say like, just to keep it general, uh, a soda soda pop, sure, okay. Yeah, the marketing in that soda soda is so predatory towards you drinking that and getting essentially addicted to that product and continuously consuming that product that is bad for you, okay, that's one simple example that you might be see like now, truly watch those ads and see how it is and like how they're portrayed and how deep they go into the mind. And that's one industry. I just gave a simple example not to shit on any company. 

57:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, there's lots like think about the commercials, the serial commercials hundreds of thousands. 

57:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
exactly so when we're talking about marketing I've said this a while for a while like people think sports betting is brutal, they're're like oh it's all these touts all predatory. I thought that as well when I was younger. Now I realize every single industry, you won't find a single industry that doesn't have these exact same tactics, this exact same marketing ploy the whole get a six pack in 30 days, that's all it is. 

57:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it's a good point. I mean, listen, I I'm not like, I've never worked in marketing, I've never really thought about this. Um, like, I built my own brand, my own personal brand. Like, how did I get to whatever following I got on Twitter by, like, live tweeting football games? 

58:16
and just being myself being myself so that. So I come from it with a little bit of a different perspective because and again, this is not to like make me seem like a saint or whatever but I've always felt it unnatural or uncomfortable to sell myself as something that I'm not. Um, it's just not me. I mean, that's just the honest to god truth. It's just not me. So when I see other people do it, it's very hard for me to resonate with that and I naturally associate it with being scummy in some way, whether that's right or wrong. 

58:46
And again, I'm opinionated. You might think my opinions are way out in left field and that's totally fine. I mean, how many people approach me after this bet bash panel that said great job? And how many people approach me that said like oh, you're a hypocrite because you do the exact same thing? Or I'm like you know, expand on that, tell me more. And they do. I'm like, okay, that's fair, here's my counter argument to that. But like they might not buy it and that's, and that's totally fine. But I don't like comparing the other industries and maybe that's just me at a personal level because of my experiences, and maybe you're right like a lot of this is just way more harmful than I realize. 

59:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All I'm saying is like, in general, people typically tend to be super negative. Right, in anything. You're more negative than positive. Hang around negative people. You're in a community of, let's say, on Twitter, where it's super negative, and then what happens is you think that the stuff you see is the worst, the worst possible stuff. But yeah, I guess all I'm trying to say really is like, in terms of like predatory marketing in in sports betting yes, it exists, it exists anywhere, though and and the amount of people that complain about it and think that, like guys like oh, rob doesn't know this and he's this and they hate him. And or like even rj physics the worst because he does this like man, everyone's just a human being. They're all trying to make money, they're all trying to do something. It's not, it's not that bad, it's not the end of the world. Like if people were to just actually truly understand the downward spiral of the negativity yep, they're in I don't think they would even care this much about this stuff. 

01:00:16
It's very that's a very valid they look at and like this guy's a scam or whatever. Then they go buy a Kit Kat bar at the store and they didn't realize. And then they go buy a Ford Focus the motor trans truck of the year and they don't realize that's the same shit. 

01:00:30
that just happened, just in a different scale. And sure one might be more clear because it's like man to man and you understand the industry. But you know those car companies manufacture these random awards and all these things that they can say that the number one, this, this, this, this, this, and then they market to you and they have all these commercials and whatever for you to go buy the thing. It's the same thing. 

01:00:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's hard for me to get out of that, the mindset that it isn't the same thing. I can understand the argument. I know that like for me, like buying a pick from Vegas Dave to me is like what Vegas Dave is doing is a million times worse in my mind. That's not to say that it is. It's just hard for me to get over that and maybe listen everyone his his is like a one of the nut low. 

01:01:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So you don't compare Vegas Dave to like one of those big cola companies, yeah, but you can compare Vegas Dave to like someone else who's like just scamming in a different industry, selling like fake jewelry or something like that. You know what I mean. 

01:01:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think what you have in my personal case is someone who's very vocal about things, opinionated. I will share those Like lots of people, just like stew, and they keep it to themselves. They'll never say anything. Like I'm not that person, never have been. So you have like these personality traits and then me just going through the life experience of being 16 and like losing money betting on sports. And then getting to be 19 and 20 and finding a bunch of totes and thinking that, oh, I'm just gonna play these guys free picks. And then the good ones, I'm gonna buy their packages and I'm gonna be set. And then like losing money that way and then getting to 23 and 24 and finding people on Twitter and going through the same cycle of like just trusting people that market in themselves in a good way. So it gives me-. 

01:02:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But you realize, when I was 16, I wasted all my money at McDonald's. Oh, I, sort of. 

01:02:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, that was another problem. 

01:02:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And there's people right now that don't even realize that that's that's true, I mean, it's the same. Forget, it's not the same. 

01:02:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, mcdonald's had the, the day of the week when I was younger value picks menu yeah. 

01:02:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
399. 

01:02:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Talk about value yeah except for friday with filet-o-fish, which I wasn't a big fan of personally. 

01:02:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Wait, wait, hold up. I gotta ask you a question. Okay, this is not, this is not my opinion, but I ask you do you like the filet-o-fish? 

01:02:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I, I like the filet-o-fish. Yes, all right, but it wasn't the one of the week. 

01:02:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay, the argument, the argument's over, basically, basically like um I like fish sandwiches with mayo and whatever. 

01:02:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like I'm, I'm into that. 

01:02:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So what happened was someone was asked hey, you like the filet-o-fish, like the worst thing on the menu, mcdonald's, and the response was you ever had one. And then the guy's like no, you, actually, you got me, I've never had one. And to this day, anytime someone mentions the filet-o-fish, I said you like the filet-o-fish, yeah. And anybody who says no, I say you ever had one and I'm like maybe 17 for 17. They're like you know what? Actually no, I've never had one, I just don't like like it's one thing. 

01:03:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's one thing if you don't like fish. I get that like if you say, oh, filet-o-fish is terrible because you don't like fish. 

01:03:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, of course you're gonna yeah, of course, of course. 

01:03:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right, it's like oh, I'm gonna, I don't. This tofu burger is terrible. I hate tofu. Like what am I gonna do? Like, that's just my personal opinion, but those, those, the filet-o-fish, the value days were absurd. 

01:03:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh, the inflation is nuts though. 

01:03:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This was $3.99 combo. This is when I was in high school. 

01:03:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You're obviously even older than me, but I used to go $1.29 McDoubles Go get a McDouble. Now it's like $3.79. 

01:03:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know I did one the other day. I did one the other day. 

01:03:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Man, man, man. Those kids are getting broke these days. What's going on? 

01:04:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
but you know what it's a it's a good point because it's I guess that, at the end of the day, eating mcdonald's literally every day probably contributed to me going towards being broke, but I always associate it with, like the gambling but also there's so much. 

01:04:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Going broke financially is only half the battle. Eating mcdonald's every day contributes to you becoming unhealthy, which is even worse. 

01:04:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a good perspective. Honestly, I didn't come into this with that perspective, but it's fair. I do see how the arguments that you're comparing, especially in this podcast, that they compare from other industries, can be. 

01:04:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I know it's not the same thing, but all I'm saying is there's similarities, very big similarities, between every industry, and for those of you listening to this podcast who are in sports but you think it's the worst thing ever, I can assure you it's not. And there's differences in other industries that are just as bad. And for those of you who are in other industries thinking what the hell, how is this guy getting this? Is this? It's the same. So they're very similar in every industry I'm just shaped by personal experiences. 

01:05:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go ahead, zach. 

01:05:02 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Okay, so this is the same section, but I skipped ahead a couple minutes because that conversation leads to them rating chicks on Reddit. 

01:05:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So if you're watching this. Yeah, we can skip over that. We don't need, we don't. 

01:05:12 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
All right, so where's the line, guys? I think, the line is if isn't everything, we're talking about misrepresenting. 

01:05:28 - BetBash Panel Member 4 (Caller)
Yes, but to what ends? 

01:05:29 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
I wouldn't use the word scam. I think misrepresenting is not as strong. His point is that's the line, that's crossing the line, yeah, so what is scamming, and then it's on you. 

01:05:40 - BetBash Panel Member 4 (Caller)
Scamming is not supplying the returns on the customer's investment, whatever that investment is. So if someone doesn't win, Maybe not necessarily win, but not have the lifestyle that you are portraying, that they can have with your representation. It's the same thing as if saying, like I don't work for a team or whatever, but yet I'm selling tickets to an event that they're not real tickets but I'm putting it out there that I'm representing myself. As I go to the game. I'm sitting at the 50-yard line. I got great seats. You can have these seats too. 

01:06:21 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
So let's define what you're saying, because I think there's something here important. If there's something that is intrinsically definable, and that's the key good and bad isn't All Plato's about that. The question is is it quality information or is it a fugazi? Is it inauthentic? Is it counterfeit? Let's use that word. Is it quality information or is it a fugazi? Is it inauthentic? Is it counterfeit? Let's use that word. Is it counterfeit or not counterfeit? 

01:06:48 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
Example I say my record's 118 and 100. I'm having a winning year but I'm laying minus 123 on average in my plays. So I'm actually down for the year. 

01:06:59 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Now that's a different thing. That's lying about an objective truth. So let's agree. Yes, Lying about your record is next on my tiers, right, but I do think and maybe there's not going to be an answer We'll go back for one more try. I think this idea of counterfeit or not counterfeit if you're selling something that's inauthentic, that's counterfeit, then you're selling something. It doesn't matter how you sell it. In a way, it's that you're selling something. If I say this is gold and it's not, and I sell it, I've done something wrong. The real question is and it's back to Rob Pozzola and whomever who's the arbiter of what's authentic or not? 

01:07:34 - BetBash Panel Member 4 (Caller)
If it's something like opinion, Because all a pick is is an opinion- Sure, but then haven't places started to put disclaimers like this is for entertainment purpose only or we do not claim to be experts in the field, but even expert people say that because you can be liable. 

01:07:51 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
I mean the original of that. This is for entertainment only was the Wire Act in which Bob Martin, one of the first lines makers ever, one of the most respected guys in the history of Vegas, went to jail over the Wire Act. Literally pick up the phone. Someone in Chicago says, hey, what's the line on this game? If he told them he goes to jail over that because that was the way there were the wire rooms. That's the only way people got the line. There wasn't any Don Best or whatever. The way to get the line was to call Vegas and that's why I remember fez out of the stardust those bank of phones six phones there were more than six. 

01:08:23 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
I was like 12 or something there were a whole bunch of them, yeah, and I used them absolutely okay, so what are you gonna say? 

01:08:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
what's the difference between what's considered scamming? 

01:08:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
well. So there's there. By the way, this is actually an interesting conversation. Um, I will listen to the pod in full after this, but there's's like. 

01:08:42
It would be inherently challenging for me to define like what is a scam, like what is right and wrong in this, and this would be my own definition, but it would be very hard as someone who's lived through this, like I've been betting more than half my life, I've been betting professionally for several years there's like, not a thought like. I see something. It's hard to describe this. It's like the spiders Spidey sense. You know Spider-Man. You see something and you're like this is a scam. Like or you can't. You can't describe it, but just like as as a season. Better, this is a scam. Like, you can't describe it, but just like as a season. Better, you're able to look at something instantaneously and say like, this is wrong, this is wrong. Plain and simple, this is wrong. Do you know what I'm getting at? Like? I know that they're trying to arrive at a definition of like and it's a good exercise in doing so, and Scott Seidenberg brings up like some interesting scenarios and he talks about misrepresentation as well. But like, lumping everything into like, scam or whatever is not the way that I personally think about things. I just think about things in right and wrong and I'll go back to the like again. I'll repeat it over and over. 

01:09:56
Right, like I got a decision to make for the hammer. We want to profit as a business. We have a, a board of directors. We have people who genuinely want to make money. I'm the CEO of the hammer because I want to make money. This is a life play for me. I love doing content. We want to monetize, but it comes down to okay, we can do this, but ethically does this make sense? That's how I make decisions. Honest to God, that's how it happens. 

01:10:22
And in a lot of these instances, like you know, they'll go, they'll go around here and they'll talk about this and I think in their mind, like in RJ's mind, he probably thinks that what they're doing at pregame is totally morally acceptable. That's fine. We're running a business. Yeah, of course we have to market ourselves. That's what every top business is going to do. How are we going to get pick sales if we don't market ourselves? Of course we put, you know, the last. If someone's hot, we elevate them to the top of the page, right, and that's fine. That's, that's a business. But, like I would already just go to the site and say, like okay, you, you're going to advertise that every single pick is there. Technically that's correct, every single pick in the history is there. But having someone have to go, through. 

01:11:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, but imagine they could only see one pick per 24 hours. Yeah, it's like, okay, this is really. 

01:11:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So to me that's like okay, it's not an outright scam, but it's like immoral in a sense. Right, like if you're going to put all the picks up on the site, give the people a filter to see all time. Like there's not a filter where I could see all time. Like there's not a filter where I could see all time record from somebody. Or just filter by sport. Like if you want to run a legitimate service, that's what I would say, that in my opinion, again, it's not a scam, but it's like there's an ethical boundary that's crossed, and that's my own personal thoughts on that. But like I don't know that I'm ever going to be able to like come up with a definition of like is this is morally right? This is morally wrong? No, it's like, on a case-by-case basis, there's just so many things that come up where, like, you know, somebody recapping their winning days on twitter but never recapping a losing day like it's not a, it's not a scam, it's just like it's just a shitty thing to do. 

01:11:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean a true scam, by definition, would be like, as he mentioned, if you said something was gold, he sold it as gold. 

01:12:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It wasn't gold like yes, that that 100 is. 

01:12:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's a scam right but and obviously that happens, it happens out there, but now it's. Now it's into like marketing tactics and how. What marketing tactic is offline? Exactly where do you? 

01:12:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
cross the boundary with marketing tactics and I I don't know that there's a good situation there, but I do feel like I have the right to call that out, as does anybody. People can call out the hammer, like they can call out this podcast and be like, well, you guys collect money from a sports book. I mean, there's someone in the comments, right, it's like, oh, you're going to send pinnacle players to pinnacle. It's a sharp sports book. Right it players to pinnacle. It's a sharp sports book. Right, it's like well, yes, it's a sharp sports book, but like we preach why we go to pinnacle everyday, competitive, like you're gonna find the best price at pinnacle. Like half the time you're gonna do that. If you're a better that gets limited, go play there because you're not gonna get limited. Like we preach why and to me that it maybe it's a way of convincing myself that it's morally acceptable, but I feel like we're arming people with that information without them having to dig through and find it or learn the hard way. Do you know? 

01:13:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
what I'm getting at, I do, and same with me. I'm with you. There's nothing wrong with sending someone to this if you think it's going to be good, but yeah, at the end of the day, man, I don't even know exactly what they're getting at, though, like I'm not, they're not fully into this, uh, into this combo here, like I understand, but I feel like there's we need a little more context. If they're just saying who's the police of? 

01:13:34
like this, that is kind of what it's getting up it's like okay, well, at the end of the day, there is no police for this Correct, the person makes their own decisions. Yes, in regular. In other businesses there is like oh, this regulatory body that has to approve these marketing conditions and these ingredients on packaging and things like that. So there's like somewhat of a police here. But even that's bullshit in a lot of industries, as well as pay for stickers and whatever, and it's the same thing I mentioned. 

01:13:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's bullshit in a lot of industries as well as paid for stickers and whatever. 

01:14:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Same thing I mentioned, like at what point is the? I don't know we know which company says, but like the Ford motor trends truck of the year award, yeah. In what point is like yes, okay, did it win that award? Yes, did Ford make that company up last year and just give it car the award? Also yes, so at what point is that scamming someone versus marketing your product around? No one knows who's the police, I don't know. You've got to make your own decision. 

01:14:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I watched a documentary on Netflix it's a food doc called Poisoned and it was about the US food system and specifically, there's like two major companies that manufacture chickens or breed chickens or whatever, and then they send the eggs down to four companies who then like get them ready or whatever, and and that's like who sends it out into market and they're supposed to be like salmonella checks and all this shit the the industry is just policed by a company that just decided they were going to be the ones to police it and they I mean the implication is that they're getting paid under the table or something by those actual four chicken manufacturing companies. 

01:15:10
So, like I'm not an idiot, like this happens across the world, like people you know, there's, there's, there's there's no policing of the sports betting industry. There would never there's regulators for sports books in the individual markets. The rest of this stuff there never will be. Which is why, like, I feel that I'm at least entitled to regularly voice my opinion on a lot of this stuff and, candidly, I think the people who get most upset with me about voicing this stuff is people who are selling stuff on top of it, who are just like, who are you to say that I can't do this and that, and I'm not saying that you can't, I'm just saying that you should do it in a way that's not immoral. 

01:15:50 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Yeah, all right, let's get to where they talk about circles off, specifically zach so, fez, I have found you guilty of this kind of stuff in the past. You say you know I this, so that's okay, but everything to the south of here is a problem. Do you kind of see where that's off? At this point, I get why you want to feel that, but do you see where? Hey, there's people. Remember you went on some podcast and they were attacking you. It's like how can you say you're a professional if you do this? 

01:16:19 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
If you're such a great, world-class professional, why don't you have a betting, you know, of 30 million dollars? How come it's below that? 

01:16:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
yes, I stick by that. By the way, 100 yeah pause that for a sec. 

01:16:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, yeah yeah I mean that's that's. It was a fair question oh, I stick by that. 

01:16:34 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
A million percent go ahead, zach hit play and, and that was a person who was being sanctimonious, that was deciding by his critique, by his values, you fell short of it. Yes, and the irony is— Now you, by the way, you equated yourself really well in that case, thank you very much. 

01:16:51 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
And the irony was that was on the Circles Off podcast with Rob Pizzola and. 

01:16:55 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Johnny, and Johnny came after me, but Rob— but do you see the—no, here's the thing, it's easy for the—I told you see the. No, here's the thing, it's easy for the. I told you at the time didn't I I go, rob was defending you. You go, yeah, I go. But was that guy on the show the next week? Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. 

01:17:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's nice to have an attack dog that does what you want? I literally never attacked anyone. 

01:17:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
by the way, on this pod Agreed. I don't consider that in a second. 

01:17:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'll simply say that my argument was rooted in straight logic and I stick by it 100% and will not back down for that. If Fez was betting the way he said and had the edge, he said, his bankroll should be significantly more than $30 million. I can map out the math for all you guys and prove real-life examples. And, by the way, tons of people that I met at Bet Bash were like dude. Tons of people that I met at bet bash we're like dude. 100. You're right. I don't even know how this is. An argument like this is. This is simple mathematics. That's going on. 

01:17:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Did you meet fessick at bet bash? 

01:17:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I met him for like, honestly, 30 seconds and I was like hey, and I wanted to talk, I wanted to talk to him about it, just like, not even hashed out, it's not like an argument. We don't if those of you don't know me in person, like I'm a very, very easygoing guy. I'm not trying to argue with people ever, ever like not even podcast this, nothing like I'm just trying to anything. But I didn't get a chance to like actually talk to him for a long period of time. Uh, I wanted to but uh, as I mentioned at the start of this, like man bet bash was crazy people coming up to me all the time I'm going here. I gotta run here, go. Okay, we got a. This guy wanted to meet, so I didn't get a chance to, but I will in the future. 

01:18:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would. I actually am going to listen back or watch back that episode as well, because I, when I was sitting next to you and we were we were chatting with Fezzik, I didn't like I didn't want to like pile off, like I don't think it would have done a great service to the interview. Maybe I'm wrong, but like you have to make these calls when you're in the moment in the interview and like, generally, we have an idea of where we want to go with the guest, but I didn't want to make it seem like he was coming on the podcast and we were just going to like both of us were just going to go at him the whole time. I don't think that's going to do a good. Like, first of all, he's giving us his time. Second of all, I can still ask questions. 

01:19:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That and like be a neutral party in that conversation without like I I don't know, maybe I did come across no one other thing here, just just for a legit thing here. Okay, for anyone who thinks I'm like attacking people or even just listening to this, it's kind of a little bit annoying, like Like Rob sends if you've been on this podcast, you know Rob sends a question list to every single guest before the show, with time in advance to review it, and the message is this this is what we think would be a good, entertaining episode that we can talk about. If you have anything on this list it's not cool you don't want to talk about, let me know right now. If, if there's anything you want to add that you do want to talk about, let me know right now. Okay, we sent that list to Fezzik. 

01:19:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I give one more caveat. By the way, I'm sorry to interrupt you, let you finish. I also let them know that we're not going to just stick to the list. So just to be fair, I do say to everyone this to me is like a good flow. But if you say something that compels us to have a to steer the conversation in a different direction, we are going to do that. Like I don't like to interview top to bottom question order, I like to have general topics. 

01:20:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So I do let the guests know that as well well, and in addition to that, if I'm not mistaken on physics list for the show was hey, we are going to ask you about pick selling. Why do you sell picks? Why do you do it? What are like? You know everything in regards to it. 

01:20:20
Okay. And in addition to that, one other thing which you know we don't like to do this and it's not, and we don't. It's not like we're editing all these episodes. We haven't actually had to do it very often but we also do tell the guests hey, if there's something you said on the show that you don't want out there because I think it's going to make you look bad like and I'm talking post recording we got the best in the biz here. Yeah, producer zach, say zach's gonna cut it out. 

01:20:45
We're gonna make it producing, not for ev not for circa millions, but serious, we got the best in the biz here. We say zach can cut anything out, we'll make sure we make you look good. Not to worry, it's a pre-recorded pod. We don't do this live. We're gonna make sure that there's something you say that's like oh, you know what I wish I didn't say that on the podcast. No worries, we take that out. So for an episode to come out of circles off, the sheet was sent in advance. The guest has to okay the questions with that on there and, in addition, after the interview, the guest has to okay yep, perfect. I think it was a good episode. I think it was entertaining. It's gonna be a lot of fun. We talked to fesic for half an hour off air afterwards, I know, but by no means do I consider like what I asked him an attack. And in addition to that, as I'm saying right now, 100 stand by and believe everything I said there in regards to him. 

01:21:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If he's betting the way he says and if he has that edge which he's selling, should have that bankroll my two cents, really quickly on this, were that you asked questions and you didn't feel like you were getting justifiable answers and you continued to press on those questions, which I think if you're in media or journalism or do whatever, that's just natural, and I personally don't think what you did in that interview was unfair I think those are questions. 

01:22:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm not in media or journalism. I do this podcast for fun 100. 

01:22:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But like that, that to me, like, if you, just if you're getting answers that you feel personally like don't vibe, or you can sense, you know there's something tingling and you're like, no, no, no, no, I I don't like, and you want to press. That to me is always okay. Period, the guest is there representing themselves. They can't answer questions or you know, if the host and guest disagree, like it's going to happen. But um, yeah, I mean like I, I don't, I, I kind of think that's a little bit. 

01:22:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Obviously rj is going to say that I didn't like it was not an attack. But if, if it comes across it, I guess it was an attack. If it comes across as that, so it is what it is, you know. But yeah, we taught you can say we talked for half an hour. After I'll share my thoughts on. On on after, like I will share my thoughts, let's listen to the rest of oh, why didn't you attack Brad Powers? Then I'll explain it. Go ahead. 

01:23:02 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
And then you can seem like the reasonable one, I might have been bristling more. 

01:23:05 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
I was sitting next to him during this segment and you were defending each other. 

01:23:10 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
Listen, I like Rob. People might say RJ, because he was an outlaw once. He's too sympathetic to outlaws. 

01:23:19 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
I mean we all got our experience. And, darren, you know you have a bad reputation to rob and I said rob bezola has a great reputation I think it's an impeccable. 

01:23:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Impeccable is what he said. Is that the quote, scott? 

01:23:28 - BetBash Panel Member 4 (Caller)
I'll get the quote. Yeah, it was impeccable, he said impeccable was that proper? 

01:23:33 - BetBash Panel Member 2 (Caller)
yeah, I don't think I mean, unless you're talking about for sanctimony yeah, I don't know anyone that's like I no, I think Rob is legitimate in that he doesn't do anything that could be perceived as illegal or unethical. I find it to be, and again, I'd much rather have someone that's a little too sanctimonious, that is naturally ethical and maybe help them see, hey, maybe we shouldn't judge quite as much than someone who's just a scammer. That's hard to reform them. Did you have? 

01:24:00 - BetBash Panel Member 4 (Caller)
what was it? No, the word is impeccable. 

01:24:05 - BetBash Panel Member 1 (Caller)
He said your reputation is impeccable. That's cool. Direct I never used that word too. No, you do pretty. You use it pretty regularly. 

01:24:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Never mind, thanks, edgy and rj there says like rob doesn't do anything that can be perceived as illegal or unethical. I don't agree with that either. I think a lot of people can perceive what I do as unethical. I don't agree, but like there could be people out there that be, like you work with sports books, you take sports book dollars. That makes what you do unethical. I don't agree with that argument, but that can totally be so. Like you know, by the way, fezzik saying my reputation was impeccable next to me really caught me off guard in that moment. I would have never and I could have never imagined that, like all the moments in my life that have like led to this, would lead to fezik defending my reputation um against darren revell. Honestly, can't even believe that that happened. 

01:24:58
But anyways, johnny, I think that I think the larger conversation here that they're kind of getting through is is it's it's a conversation about the ethics of sports betting. Right, and this is a two hour long dream preview episode. We're not going to listen to the entirety of it overall, but I think that there's a lot of conversation points that are worth discussing. People will have different um, you know opinions on them. They'll lie on different sides of the argument. But it comes down to, like what is considered unethical or immoral in the sports betting space, who gets to be the arbiter of that and say, like, what is real, what is not, what can you do, what can't you do? And honestly I think it's very interesting discussion, but I don't think that there's a real answer. It's just like everyone is valid, is entitled to their own opinion. 

01:25:49
The things that really bother me are when, when people make personal attacks on others I've voiced that before I think, like, at the end of the day, you might not like someone, but they're still a human being and just treat them with respect. I don't know why that's such a big problem, but arguments happen all the time. Um Fezzik, powers, you know, is happening right now. Um in in in real time and has been for the last couple of weeks like it's going to happen, but you just don't cross the line and, you know, get to the point where I think it's, you know, nasty type of thing, but I don't know. I've spoken my piece on this, but you do have to answer to why the Powers interview didn't go the same way as the Fezzik interview. I can give some commentary on that as well, I'll give you the exact. 

01:26:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I can also speak to my side of things there, so first off, anyone who understands betting and limits is already understands this. So I don't even know who I'm talking to right now, because most people should easily be able to understand this. If you don't, and if you still don't understand after I explain it, leave a comment and I'll try to do my best to actually put an Excel spreadsheet down over a 15-year period and really just map out the numbers for you. Okay, so I try to pull up a little bit right now. Here's the main difference between Brad Powers interview Steve Fezik. Okay, brad Powers, college football originator. Steve Fezik, nfl originator, does other sports. I'm sure they both do other sports, but in the context of the interview, brad Powers was talking about how he sells his picks. And how he sells his picks because it's a guaranteed source of income, diversifies a little for him and he's making good money on the pick sales. 

01:27:29
okay, so brad powers is betting he's admittedly opening, openly betting college football openers or let's say, early in the week, early in the week or openers, okay, the limits on the on this stuff that he's betting without working with a major group or syndicate is within the single digit thousands. Okay. So what I mean by that is like you're probably gonna get anywhere between zero and $9,000 on the play. 9,000 would be pretty impressive for an early weekend NFL. And again, unless you're working with groups, things like that. Also, if you're not working with groups and you're just on the regular sports book accounts might have limp cut here, cut here, cut here. You never know where you're going to be able to get down. There's very few places like Pinnacle Sports where you can constantly actually get down. But for those of you who know Pinnacle, limits early in the week not very high For college football, obviously, depending on the region of the game. 

01:28:18
So for Brad Powers, I'm going to throw out some numbers here Now, just to be clear. I'm not sure if this is the numbers of what he's making from pick sales. I don't know if this is even close. Okay, let's say Powers makes $100,000 from his pick sales and let's say Fezzik makes $100,000 from his pick sales. Okay, that's a significant amount of money. $100,000 is not a lot of money, Not a life-changing amount that's going to set you for life, but also $100,000 a year. That's higher than the average salary in the US and Canada. That's a lot of money when we look at this, the amount that Brad Powers can make on his own from betting, if he is getting, let's say, an average of $2,000 or $3,000 a play, getting, let's say, an average of two or three thousand dollars of play, if he has a 35 unit season, he made 70 000. In order for him to out earn his pick cells he would have to have a 50 unit season at 2k or you know whatever equivalent at 4k, 25 unit season winner. I'm assuming he's picking spreads and totals at minus 110. Obviously it's not the case. 

01:29:17
But for the simplicity of this, you guys understand it if powers has an incredible year, now he's got an extra 100k in his bankroll and now let's say he continues to grow that bankroll and he's at 300 000 and he's at a million and he's at two million dollars in bankroll, he still has the issue that even though he might want to bet 30, 40, 50 000 on those games, because he's betting early week and that's his edge he doesn't have the ability to bet 30,000 on a game. Due to that, if Powers had a billion dollars or 300,000, he's still betting the exact same amount of money. Therefore, it does not scale. There's no one who he's able to cross with. There's no group he's able to work with that's going to give him three, four, $5 million a year to actually be able to provide value to those picks. In that scenario, which he's open with, doing stuff like media, doing stuff like selling your picks, that makes an extra couple hundred thousand a year insanely, plus EV diversified revenue stream. There you go. That's why I don't have an issue with it. 

01:30:23
Okay, to be clear, I also don't have an issue with Fezzik's model, which is I'm going to sell my picks for NFL. But here is where I question Fezzik and say, hey, it doesn't make sense. The reason is, let's say Fezzik makes $100,000 for his picks and again, I'm not sure that's the amount, but assume it is For Fezzik if he has been a documented winner for 20 years and I'm not sure what the exact claims are. If I need to and people still don't understand that after this I will go through and get his record by year, whatever best I can possibly find, and I will map it out and I will Kelly stake the exact things and I will prove to you how he should have, at this point, a bankroll that is well into the tens of millions, well into the tens of millions. 

01:31:06
And if you have a bankroll well into the tens of millions maybe, let's say, your bankroll's 30, 40 million then every NFL game that you have an edge on, if you still do which he claims he does you should be hammering that number until it's no longer in place. Therefore, you make even more money. So, to put it into perspective, I just went on pregame right now. I pulled open Fezzik's record again. As Rob said, it's kind of hard to see current season. It doesn't actually have it here, but I'm looking. It's $100 picks, okay, so it's like about even. So, that'll be four he's up about. 

01:31:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is. It's tough, man. You're going to have to go day by day. 

01:31:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
One, two. 

01:31:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're going to have to backtrack on this all-time record thing, because if you're going to go day by, day. 

01:31:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's going to take you three weeks. He's up. It says current season. He's up about 60 units. Okay, again, give or take. I can calculate it after If he's up 60 units in the current season. If he was up 60 units in his first season, let's say he started with $50,000. Now he's growing his bankroll big time. Okay, kelly staking every year. That's compounded by this point this guy should have. If he's winning 66 units a year or this is just current current season it looks like he's even promoting more than this. How is he not a multi-billionaire at this point? And this is all I'm saying is Fezzik had claimed on the show. 

01:32:32
He said I give out NFL picks on Sunday morning and those picks, those numbers, are available, if they are available. Pinnacle. Sponsor of the show. 100k a click with re-bet on a one cent move. Meaning if you have an edge at minus 105, and you're willing to bet that to an average price of minus 110, that's a million dollars you get down One cent move every time. You're gonna get down roughly a million dollars For simplicity. You may not move like that. Eventually, after a couple hits, roughly a million dollars for simplicity may not move like that. Eventually, after a couple hits they'll move the number further, whatever. But leveraging every book, every oath that you have, that's not going to limit you pinnacle circa a few other books that you know. 

01:33:12
We all know um, getting down into the mid seven figures extremely easy, easier than getting nine thousand dollars down on brad powers's early week college football um out of conference college football stuff. So that's the simple argument for me is this if you're betting nfl and you're claiming there's still an edge and you've won super contests, when do you win the super contest years ago? So you at least has that bankroll that we know for sure. That's been in there, plus the pick selling services, plus all this stuff. Physics response was how, how could I be? I have a family. Oh, you have a family. That and I'm not trying to be condescending here, whatever, I'm explaining the math. Anybody who knows knows it's very simple. If you had an edge betting nfl during sunday morning at the high limits and you've had that edge for 20 years, you are a billionaire, fair enough Well said. 

01:34:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Do you agree or disagree? So I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I think that there's some nuance here that could be discussed. Right, you're very driven. You have an edge in sports betting. You're very driven by maximizing that edge, making money, whatever, and that's totally fine. Like lots of people strive to that. And for a large part of my life like when I had my peak edge in NHL, like that was all I could think about is like how am I gonna extract the most money this year? But there are people that lose that drive and maybe money this year. But there are people that lose that drive and maybe in Fezzik's case which he didn't articulate, by the way, at least not to my recollection maybe it's not just like money for him and his appetite to grow is not the same as yours. So I think that where there could be potential disagreement there, right, like his motivation in betting might not be I want to make as much money as humanly possible. 

01:35:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, but Rob, I know maybe I'm different in mindset, but it doesn't exist. You're not going to even bother doing the work to make $100,000 selling picks. If you're making $30 million a year betting football, you're not going to put the effort in to even type those picks and the $100,000 in sales is going to erode your ability to make 30 or 60 million dollars like so, when we're talking this here, I don't accept the excuse of well, you know, I don't really uh, care that much about betting. I I'm happy to make a hundred thousand betting and a hundred thousand my thing. I I mean, listen, maybe there's people who think like that, yeah, but it's so far-fetched to believe that. Someone who actually believes what she said on the podcast yes, I have an edge betting football. The numbers are there, I give it out. I asked him. I said do you think people who buy your service will win? He said yes. He said yes and they're marketing it 100 units 20 units, 50 units, 60 units. 

01:35:58
It is here. It's hard to find the exact amounts. Yeah, they continually market that 30 units of NFL yes Is on Sunday morning is $60 million. 

01:36:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, if you have the right role, it's 60 to $150 million. 

01:36:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If you have the right role and what I mean by if you have the right role is it's possible to get that amount down. Yeah, I'm not saying everyone should be betting that much. I'm not saying there even are people betting that much. What I'm saying is it's possible, it's been done, people can do it. 

01:36:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not going to make any more Like. At the end of the day he had his opportunity to give his own answers on the situation, right, and when I ran into him at Bet bet bash we were talking a little bit, not very long, but about that interview and specific and and again, this is just my like opinion or or my read of him on the situation could be entirely untrue, but my read was that I think he wish he had a do-over on a couple of questions and could have voiced them a bit better. 

01:37:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We can definitely do it again, and I want to also give my thoughts on Fezzik as a better, by the way, because this is despite what I just said here. I will tell you this about Fezzik Do I think he wins? Actually, yes, I do. I genuinely think he wins. Do I think he wins at NFL? Yes, I do, and I think he's won an NFL for a long time. Obviously, you know, might have had a losing season in here or there, but I genuinely would back him. 

01:37:24
If you told me hey, I got to stake up my own money. Would I bet for Fezzik to win on NFL this year? Yes, no, I'm betting the yes max bet easily. However, with that being said, do I think that his Sunday morning available lines over the course of the nfl season are going to be profitable for subscribers? No, if I did, I would buy those picks and I would jam them with my own money. Yep, and I and then I too would be would have 100 million dollars and then eventually a billion dollars. So therefore, I don't mean to disrespect the guy in any way. I'm just explaining the concept of how the liquidity works in the market and the answers of oh, I have a family. I don't really understand how that plays into the mathematics that I'm showing or can show in terms of actually providing and Fezzik, he's great at math, I'm pretty sure he's an actuary, he knows the calculations better than me. 

01:38:21 - Zack Phillips (Other)
So that's all I'm trying to say there providing and fessick's a great. 

01:38:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's great at math. I'm pretty sure he's an actuary. He knows the calculations better than me, right? So that that's all I'm trying to say there. But in terms of fessick, like he actually is super sharp in the way he handicaps and the way he bets. He's found countless edges over the year. I used to listen to him prior to him being on the podcast, even prior to me. Even, um, you know, when I was way younger, when I was just getting into sports bang, used to listen to him. Um, so actually mad respect for him as an actual better as well as as like a mind, because he is very sharp. 

01:38:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Plus ev, minus ev. You already gave your minus ev zach. Gotta get it together, bro. I'm, I would I. But maddie simo, honestly at vegas, underscore maddie. He's a good proxy and literally does not pay me. I'm just telling you, I've used maddie Simo honestly at Vegas underscore Maddie. He's a good proxy and literally does not pay me. I'm just telling you, I've used Maddie Simo as a proxy for many, many years. This is all I'm gonna say. I'll end this conversation now. Never made a mistake. I've heard horror stories from everyone else that has had to do stuff in Vegas. Do you have a plus EV for the week? You? 

01:39:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
mark these all down. 

01:39:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Huh, I gotta For the week. You mark these all down. Huh, I got to start doing this. 

01:39:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, let me actually go to my thing. So I just write them down like if I think of them. That's smart Life, that's smart, and then I'll see. 

01:39:30 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I have some. I wrote them down while Johnny finds them. If you want me to go here, go ahead, zach. Okay, so I went to Circa this past weekend and we did the uh hit the book show there, so that was incredible. My first time in vegas. That's kind of why I was there to signed up for the contest. Um plus ev. Live tv on planes. I've never been on a plane with live tv oh, it's a banger day flight on thursday had the live tv. 

01:39:55
I got sat down and I was like, oh my god, like I'm locked in watch the tour championship for three and a half hours on the flight. It was, it was, it was the best I I honestly had just had never experienced that before. That was plus ev. That was. That was incredible. Yep, I had never experienced that. 

01:40:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm a big fan live tv on planes is a game changer and then you connect to the wi-fi and you throw some live betting on while you're on the kid. 

01:40:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm not joking uh, that that's gonna be like delays in the live. 

01:40:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're not you cannot be doing that, but wait till the commercial breaks man so I got, I got a plus ev uh written down. 

01:40:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's actually uh, it's a plus ev from a live dog, luke yeah, uh, big fan part of the spanky crew. I I call him luke the man. That's what I'm going to continue to call him. It's, it's. I don't want to be saying oh, luke, oh, which luke spank, he's getting knocked. That's listen. Yes, he's on spanky's team, but he's his own guy, luke the man. 

01:40:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's what I call him now. 

01:40:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So if I ever say luke, the man is live dog luke. We were at that bash. Uh, he came up to get a drink and I said oh, I have an extra here, have it. You say that's the most negative ev move ever. It's a, it's an open bar, I'll just get my own. Like I don't know, I don't know what happened. So happened and I we laughed about it. Day later he comes to the other bar again. I'm there and he's like oh, I'm just gonna get a water. And I'm like I actually have an extra water. And he's like buddy, negative ev, negative EV, got his own water. So the positive EV move is at an open bar, get your own drink, get a fresh drink. It's an open bar. 

01:41:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, 100% there's no downside. 

01:41:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, what do you got? And I already gave my negative EV, which, by the way, it wasn't about the super contest. The negative EV play is not asking friends for help when you could potentially leverage the network I did ask a friend, okay I. 

01:41:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But I will say I will say based off the conversation negative. Ev is asking pazola specifically based off the conversation, there could have been a little bit more context and like questions provided, in which he just asked me how do you sign up to a pro? 

01:41:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I know I don't get a proxy he gave you. I gave you the answer. He's like yeah, this is the guy I use, but he didn't even tell you. Like yeah, you didn't even ask him. Like am I getting absolutely rinsed? 

01:42:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yeah, what's typical fee or whatever. You know how much like that, that kind of stuff. I would have been in a bad mood because I think I was golfing at the time you sent that to me, but either way I probably would have got back back to you but okay, yeah, fair enough. 

01:42:18 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I I just assumed that that was normal price based on like. You were like oh, I'm not throwing you on the bus here, but that was the person you recommended. Yeah, I'm like, okay, this is the service For context. 

01:42:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'd sign up for 15 contests. 

01:42:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, right, right. It's not negative for him because he's splitting the VIG across multiple bets. 

01:42:36 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Get it. 

01:42:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I got it Understood. And let's not forget converting the money at the ATM with the credit card. 

01:42:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, there's a lot of mistakes happen. We need to have a conversation. 

01:42:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You definitely played the 8.5% resort fee. 

01:42:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You definitely played the roulette wheel with three zeros. No, there's not one at Circa Plus EV. For me, this is actual advice. Maybe this is stuff that, like people, knew about beforehand. I never knew about this shit before. 

01:43:06
I don't wear dress shoes a lot. I had my sister's wedding last week. My dress shoes didn't come in in time so I had to run out the night before like 830 as the mall was closing to buy a pair of dress shoes that would match my suit. But I have issues with dress shoes generally where they like wear down the back, like the Achilles area of my leg, and it's bothered me forever. I've never been able to find a comfortable pair of dress shoes. Little did I know they actually sell these soft pads that you can put in on the back of a dress shoe. Absolute game changer. Did not feel them forever. So don't be an idiot like me and wear dress shoes that are painful forever. Get yourself one of these little pads that goes around the back at the achilles. It's soft, it's really nice, you can dance, you can do whatever you got to do. Plus ev, it's like six bucks. I don't know which companies make them, doesn't matter, just get them minus ev. 

01:43:53
Consuming content that you don't actually like and people might say like. Why would you do this? Why would you consume? 

01:44:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
content, to lose half our subscribers well, you know, you get go ahead rob continue. 

01:44:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, you know what there are. I mean bet pod ratings definitely does not like circles off. He just continues to listen. Thank you very much for listening, by the way, every single week and, uh, promoting our episodes. I do appreciate that, but consuming content that you don't actually like you get messages on like WhatsApp and telegram and signal from your friends are like oh, check this out, check this out and you can read the title and you're like I'm really not interested in this, but like all right, I'm going to. 

01:44:32
The problem is, once you go down this like and start clicking on all these things that your buddies are sending you or these podcasts that are like rattling you like people like, oh, check out what simon hunter said, I'm like I'm not gonna listen to it. You know why? Because now my feeds are just full of shit content that I don't actually want to ever see in my life, so I've gone down. I've made big mistakes. Youtube I did like some competitive analysis on youtube and I went to other sports betting channels and started watching the videos. I should have done this under a burner account, because now I'm getting fed the worst sports betting content imaginable. Whatsapp like clicks into Instagram you should see the shit I get recommended on Instagram. Now it's very bad, these algorithms. They pick up quick, they think you like something and you're watching something and you're clicking into it regularly. You're gonna get force fed that for a long time, so do not consume content that you don't actually like, unless it's this specific podcast On top of that. 

01:45:33
Just one before we end. Thank you for tuning in everyone out there and supporting the show. Obviously, click the like button, subscribe and all that. Football season is right around the corner. Hit the books is absolutely killing it right now in terms of viewership, and I will say we finally got joey knish a mic. The next episode of hit the books you're gonna hear him with an actual microphone if he plugs it like. I can't force him to plug it in because we've done this before with him I will force him. 

01:45:57 - Zack Phillips (Other)
But joey crystal clear, baby joey, joey Crystal Clear will be back. 

01:46:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Knish and Powers. 

01:46:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
it's honestly the best show by the way, the real reason, if you listen this long, that I didn't chirp Powers and I was chirping Fezzik is because Powers is part of the Hammer Betting Network. Like and subscribe, yes. 

01:46:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Douglas Farmer, parker Fleming on Wednesday's Never Punt, never Parlay. I'm very proud of the college football content, so if hit the books YouTube channel, do that. You can also check it on a podcast form and forward progress powered by pinnacle during the NFL season starting next week, we are going to be live six days a week, monday through Friday and then Sunday. Two shows pizza buffet with myself in the mornings and then the recap show at night with Clive Bixby as well. So we have live content every single day. It's the usual cast and crew Me, clive, fabian Somer, eric Eager Hitman, george G-Stack, george Sharp Clark I'm missing people all over the place, jeff Feinberg. We got it all. So forward progress on YouTube and check it out in podcast form. 

01:46:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We are so back baby, we are so back Football's back. Let's go. 

01:47:04 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I got one last thing. It's a brand new show on hit the books, so you obviously see condition powers. But monday mornings, 9 am eastern time, brad powers release. We're gonna do a brad powers release. We're gonna see how it goes. I'm not see how that steam. 

01:47:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're gonna start with a brad powers release show to start the year and we're gonna see how it goes because a credit, by the way, to adam churnoff who, like, coined this idea I want to give credit where it's due yeah, I'm not, I'm not gonna call him no, no, no. Let's not call him big churn. I don't think he likes that. 

01:47:32 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I heard him say that before he's like where the hell did this come from? 

01:47:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
big churn, I'm not big or whatever. I'm like no, that's not what we mean by big, like it's just anyways never mind baby churn baby churn is what I like to call him but um yeah, also one of the things right angle sports, the actually like originators of the whole release. 

01:47:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I will say this right now if you're thinking of signing up again, they crush clv record on bet stamp. Hit me up personally. Circles off at circles off h on Twitter. I have a promo code for you guys for Right Angle Sports if you want to buy the package for this season and there's actually a big discount if you buy it. So actually hit me up. 

01:48:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Hit him up. You can email as well. 

01:48:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Email CirclesOff at. 

01:48:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
TheHammerbet TheHammerbet. This has been a big bomb banger of an episode. We got through a lot of topics. People were asking for more length what's the clip gonna? Be. You've been asking more, like before haven't you? 

01:48:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
what's gonna be rob? Come on, what's the clip gonna be for this episode? That's a tough one. 

01:48:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You make notes, zach, as you go along, you have to be making notes, don't? Don't make it you gotta time my rant my uh monologue on phasic. 

01:48:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Don't make it that, make it. Make it rob for this one. Make it me please All right. 

01:48:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's probably a lot of quality clippable content in this one. 

01:48:46 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, I think so Absolutely. 

01:48:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think so. This has been Circles Off episode number 117. We'll catch everyone next week. Peace, outro Music.