00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off, we're joined by a special guest. His name is Las Vegas Chris. We're talking about his origin story, how he currently bets on the NFL, and we're going to get into a wide variety of topics. Stay tuned. Circles Off episode number 118 starts now. Come on, let's go. Welcome to Circles Off, episode number 118 right here. Part of the Hammer Betting Network, rob Pizzola, joined by Johnny from Betstamp. How are things? Pretty good? 

00:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Episode 18. A unique one here yes, marian Hossa, three Stanley Cups in a row, not winners. Yep On three different teams. 

00:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One of the most underrated hockey players because of the concussions. I actually remember my first Leafs playoff game that I ever went to was a Leafs Senators game and Marion Hossa scored two goals. I believe the Leafs lost four two. There you go. It was a rough one, but Hossa was a great player. But I, we I think we agree on. Uh, so Peyton Manning was more 18, of course Peyton Peyton Manning at his peak, best quarterback, maybe not over Mahomes you know, when he went to the Broncos that first year was electric. 

01:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
How did he do that? 

01:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
but then he, the corpse of peyton manning, won a super bowl with the broncos, where he couldn't even throw like the ball 20 yards down the field, and he won it though. Well, I'll stay on the back of the defense, vaughn miller or whatever right. 

01:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That was a crazy ending story, like how many guys actually go out on top like winning the bowl and then retire? Very few, even brady he. He did, he did it, but he just couldn't quit no he had to come back he had too much in him. 

01:28 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Well, who's the guy? Um damn hockey player defenseman ray bork ray bork. Thank you yeah yeah, I got a leafs one for you wait, did bork retire after that cup you never played another game. 

01:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That was it okay. So there you go. He did it. 

01:41 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Leafs number 18 mike brown, mike brown, zach. I had to throw one in. Oh, mike brown. Eh yeah, mike brown, but zach. Okay, so there you go, he did it. Leafs number 18, mike Brown, mike. 

01:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Brown, zach Hyman, I had to throw one in, oh. Mike Brown. Eh, Mike Brown. 

01:48 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
But Zach. Hyman wore 11 with the Leafs, 18 with the Oilers. 

01:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh he's not even 18 on the Leafs. Yeah, he was 11 with the Leafs. 

01:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We can't do a sports betting show without referencing number 18, calvin Ridley, was he 18? 

02:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It would be sacrilege. 

02:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What's his jersey number with Jacksonville? I don't know, calvin Ridley, I haven't seen it. I know Jags jersey. I mean he's probably going to get his number. No, you would imagine that he's going to get the number that he wore in Atlanta. 

02:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, he's wearing zero. Oh yeah, probably all the number of parlays he wore. Zero. 

02:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, the number of wagers placed in the NFL seat, justin Jefferson's 18 too, right. Yeah, that guy's good, obviously amazing, amazing. Speaking of good, pinnacle Not only good but great. The best, the best, the world's sharpest sportsbook available to bettors in Ontario. We would never consider betting without Pinnacle as one of our sportsbook accounts, because of their everyday competitive odds. Bet smart. Because of their everyday competitive odds. Bet smart. Bet Pinnacle, your trusted sportsbook for the past 25 years, and use code HAMMER when signing up to Pinnacle, as it does help support the show. We can continue doing this show. If you sign up to Pinnacle, use code HAMMER, you must be 19 plus available in Ontario, not available in the US. And, as always, please play responsibly. 

03:07
Our guest this week on Circles Off is a seasoned sports better. He's well known for winning multiple contests, including the Palms, the Wynn Stations, last man Standing a couple of times. He's part of the BetUS NFL trio with Steve Fezzik and Jared Smith. Also has his own YouTube channel under Las Vegas. Chris, live from Las Vegas. It is Las Vegas, chris. How's it going? 

03:34 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
It's going great. It's so great to hook up with you guys, first time meeting Johnny, and too short of a visit when you were in town, rob Nice, to catch back up with you. 

03:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, for sure. We've wanted to have you on for a long time, not because you wear similar shirts to me, but because of your reputation as well. So let's start with that. A lot of people don't know the background on you. I actually don't think I know your full personal background, so let's start with that. Give us your personal background, how you got involved in the in the betting space and what inspired you to pursue sports betting as your field of expertise inspired you to pursue sports betting as your field of expertise. 

04:11 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Well, I was in retail collectibles for a long time. I had retail and wholesale businesses, starting between trading cards and beanie babies, and that's why I mentioned I used to make my twice a week journey to Young and Steel in Toronto up that hideous 401. 

04:23
That was an interesting trip. So I'm a former smuggler who used to smuggle in a trunk load of American cards and bring back Canadian cards on the way back in. So I finally did have to start using the tax departments on that, but I got away with it for a while. After that I moved out here, thought I would kind of bounce around, play a little poker that was too slow Ran into some people in the sports biz and ran into some really good people. I was very fortunate I think everybody has to be fortunate in who they meet and who ended up. 

05:05
Frank, who ended up being my partner later on. He was doing some funky stuff with buying back points and selling off points and other unusual type betting scenarios which, for my brainwaves I don't know what it was. I couldn't grasp it right away. It was like out of my comprehension. You know he'd be telling me oh I, you know I get this free 33 and this free 33, you know half 34 open and you know all I need is to do this and I'm getting paid to do that and I'm like what's he talking about, you know? 

05:39
So after a period of time of learning, you know there's another side of betting that I was completely obtuse about, started working with him and that became a long process and I think I was fortunate to be here to start at the perfect time, for me at least, just because it was still kind of a little bit of the Wild West. It was, you know, the post, the heavy bonus era and that sort of thing, but before you know the cutoff whatever that January 11th was and did a lot of chasing middles. So I had to learn the value of everything. You had to learn the value of points and totals and different wagers and you know it was easy to get credit accounts back then and we'd burn through them and we'd have a lot of money invested in the chasing these middles because that's a low risk, high reward type, you know, proposition. 

06:41
And obviously part of the learning process is lots of mistakes, lots of accountability, lots of trial and error and you learn the hard way. That's how you learn how to read a market and I I kind of feel that people that are getting involved over recent periods of time don't won't ever have those same experiences because they won't be forced into a corner having to learn this do or die sort of market reading, analysis sort of thing. So I feel like I benefited from that and that holds on after all these years. It just feels like you can look at a board and you can get in a group of things much faster and I think that's really important to the success that I have with betting just being able to understand the importance and how little, you know, what appears to be a little bit of value can really multiply quite fast and so basically evolved from being a middler and a scalper and is that closed had to transition and develop my own bottom up approach with college football and NFL. 

07:47
I was fortunate enough to have people along the way that helped me out. 

07:52
I mean, I think you always need people to help you out and I learned how to do that myself a little bit and tweak things up a little bit. And you know, with rule changes as they changed, I had to adapt along the way and you know that took a lot of time and effort and long story short, that's basically where I am. A couple of years ago I went solo, frank was doing other things and I had to make a decision whether I wanted to keep on doing whatever I was doing or and I but if I did, I'd have to be 100% into it, because I don't think it's like being a little bit pregnant. You're either all in or you're all out For what I was doing at the time, because I was, you know, allowing what I do to be followed by other people and you have to have 100% dedication if other people are reliant on you, and even if you're doing it yourself, you have to be 100% dedicated to doing what you're doing, because your biggest leaks are, you know, being half-assed about anything. 

08:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So you've identified yourself as a bottom-up type of bettor. So for those in the audience we've talked about that as being like originators before, people who create their own numbers on games. I can't remember who specifically said this to me Actually, might've been Johnny at one point but when we try to get to know other bettors, or bettors pitch themselves to us like, hey, do you wanna move my stuff, do you wanna bet my stuff? One of the main questions that's asked is what gives you an edge? What separates you from other professionals that are in the sports betting field? Why should we work with you? So, from your perspective, chris, right now, what sets you apart from other professionals in the field? Where does your edge come from? 

09:36 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
My edge with NFL clearly comes from my model. It's a pretentious thing to say, but I have a pretty lengthy history of success with my NFL model and, amazingly enough, if I'm against the market, my win-loss rate is even higher in those instances where the market moved against me. 

10:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I have noticed that personally, by the way, as well. So for those that don't know, I'm just gonna throw it out there. But I've been tracking Chris's stuff for years, and when you don't get closing line value, you actually do tend to win a lot more often than not. So, but I'm sorry to cut you off, chris. I wanna dig into that a little bit further, because a lot of people will say well, my but is it specifically like your ability to apply logic to sports? Are you looking at things that you think other people are not? Is it your evaluation of the market and your entry, like if you? 

10:33 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
could break it down a little bit more for us. I believe that one of the mistakes that NFL handicappers are making in general is they're getting far too deep into the woods. The availability of creating new data and adding available data to consider just keeps on growing. It just feels like every year, everybody's coming up with all these new angles and stuff, and for me, I believe you just keep it simple. I mean, it's not simple. Simple, don't get me wrong, but what I'm doing is more reliant on an overall outlook rather than allowing, you know, focusing in on allowing any inputs to become, uh too, you know, influential, so to speak. So, um, like I, it kind of irks me a little bit when you people are always going to the same two or three hardcore data terms. 

11:50
I'm not afraid to you know, people say that your models are supposed to have the goal of you know, you know where the closing lines end up. I don't care where the closing lines end up, I want numbers that are generated, that are off numbers. I have no problem with that. You know, a third of my games every week come right on the number. So my model does consistently have 30 to 40 percent of the games right on the number and then the other 60 percent it's going to be. How far away from the model? And I, you know, I've changed the criteria. Well, what games am I going to use and which games am I not going to use? How far away from the model? And I've changed the criteria. Well, what games am I going to use and which games am I not going to use? 

12:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And that's basically where my starting point is each week. 

12:36 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
So, Chris, why don't you? Care about the closing line value. If I'm winning consistently and I know why the line is moving where it is, I care why the line is moving more than where it went, if that makes any sense. 

12:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Of course, closing line value is important, don't get me wrong. 

12:57 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
It's critically important, as anal as it gets, trying to get the best of the numbers. So if I don't get the best of the number, 15% of the time, I'm tracking what went wrong in those 15%. So closing line value is important but it actually kind of gets the blood. You know, like I'll share with people that follow with me, I'll say, okay, here we go, we got one of these games and moved against us and strap in and it's not dread like it is in other sports. You know you're sitting there at an NBA game and you see the late move go against you. Uh-oh, you might be in some trouble. 

13:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right, totally understood. I mean, I get that completely. I remember years ago there was kind of an NFL group out there that used to bet the under at post on every single high total, like if it was a total in the 50s it was going to catch under money late. And then you're like you know, you kind of figure that out over time and then you just, instead of you know, dismissing the closing line value, I think you just change your bet timing up a little bit differently over time as well and enter the market a little bit different. I mean this in the least defensive way possible. 

14:05
Chris, you're one of the more elderly handicappers in the space, especially when you see people are doing content out there. You've been around a long time. There's obviously been a ton of change to league, specifically the NFL, over the years and you talk about, like, the new data that becomes available. I think some of the younger people that watch this will have will take a lot of issue with you saying you think that the new data or is like either being over accounted for or people are focusing too much on that, and they will say that your approach is too simplistic. I know I would have said that probably five years ago. So what's your response to someone who comes across like that? 

14:48 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Well, I think a lot of the stuff is pretty cool, but what happens with your models if you have a handful of your inputs based on human judgment? You know bad, bad bounce rates or catch rates, or you know I don't. I'm not even sure as far as I'm concerned. Anything that involves human judgment I don't want in my model, because if it's 90% correct and 10% wrong, then that would just compound into each other repetitively and would skew numbers on something that you know I haven't needed in the past, why do I need it in the future? 

15:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, chris, I know that you're a listener of the pod because you've sent me some DMs in the past. Just randomly over time, as I look through our DMs history on Twitter in the past, just randomly over time, as I look through our DMs history on on Twitter, um, and we are, we get into some um. I don't want to say back and forth, but I think you have an interesting perspective on things and we recently talked about, uh, some episodes we've been done with Steve Fezzik. Um, which is one of them with Steve Fezzik, the other one, a conversational piece about him pregame the industry as a whole. A lot of the line of questioning towards Fezzik could also apply to you. You're winning better. I think it's six straight winning seasons of NFL which are documented, but you still opt to sell your NFL place. Can you walk us through that? 

16:24 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Back in the when, when I had to make that decision of whether I was going to continue and it was going to have to be 100%, I was never fully like. We had been making our stuff available for years and I would be responsible by myself. There was no partner that could share responsibility or blame, or whatever the perspective was at the time. I'm going to be out there hanging myself out. Am I going to work hard enough at this or am I going to just move on? And I finally decided I had the energy to do this. I'm going to, you know, to go 100% on this and it was by far the best thing I've ever done for my process and what I do, because I, in the flurry of activity, you know I'm throwing bets in left and right and not using Excel to track at all If I'm, you know, for all my regular stuff and I'm like all over the map, oh, I'll add this, I'll add that. And what this did was it made me focus on I have to have my act together, I have to be structured, I have to be disciplined. It was basically a self policing and self monitoring and you know that I all of a sudden had to follow because it's it's my reputation, it's my ego, it's my pride. I don't want to sit there and put out losers. I mean, I don't need the money from allowing picks to be followed. It challenged me and it made me a better, better. It made my process for me better, because I had to be better. 

18:21
I had no choice. I can't sit there and take days off. I can't half-ass it. There's nothing more important to me than what somebody following feels like. I don't. I get fucked. My, you know my finances are an afterthought compared to the emotional ups and downs of going through, you know, bludgeoning losses and great wins. So in that respect, that's why I started it, that's why I do it, and it's still evolving as it goes. You know, I believe what I do is always challenging myself to get out of my comfort level and to share whatever value that I can with people. And I don't consider myself a pick seller. I make what I bet because, damn well, every single thing that somebody gets it's following me. I'm betting and I'm betting a lot, even if it's a small play. So it's accountability, it's process and it's just the whole challenge of it and I get a great reward from it and I cry or have more heartbreak on bad weeks over what a client's going through than what's going on in my bank account Hold up. 

19:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Sorry, I was going to say, chris, I have a couple of questions that maybe you'd be willing to answer on there, just because I know you've been around the game for a long time. A lot of people know who you are, but they don't necessarily know, like, and they know, listen, they know you bet NFL, right, but they don't know, like, what the deal is with the whole betting process. So I was going to ask you, like, first off, if you're willing to say, like, you know where are you betting? Is it the Vegas books? Are you working with different groups? Things like that, like, would you mind getting into a little bit more about, like, the betting process? Because, just genuinely, I think like a lot of people in this space would love to know and probably would you know, even gain a bunch of respect for you if they knew you know how much you're betting and that kind of stuff. But again, if you're uncomfortable, that's fine it's uh, I'm basically my own guy. 

20:29 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Uh, I've worked and have relationships with a lot of people. Uh, I do a lot of different things. I don't work with any groups. Um, I think like a year or two ago I kind of reached out to a couple of people thinking maybe it would be better for me to to possibly work with a group, and I'm like, no, I don't think so. I guess I would be willing to work with other people. I mean, it's for my process. I could know what. We'll just say you know the most success, whoever else is successful in NFL. I could know their picks ahead of time. I would do absolutely nothing to compromise it. I could. I couldn't care less what direction they're going. I only would like the information of for market reading purposes. Because you know if, if people were trustworthy and could work with each other and honestly would just stick to their own agendas, that would be better for everybody, because then everybody would have great market timing and it would be better. 

21:28
But when you have all these unknowns and you don't know when somebody's going to jump in and move a market on you. 

21:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, it's tough because we're all competing right For the same numbers. So if you have people who are want to bet the same side, once somebody gets wind of that, there's just nobody in the real world that's going to be able to wait on somebody else that knows that they like the same thing, right? 

21:51 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Well, yeah, again, it's just that's what makes me different. I don't care. There's an honor, there's honor involved in dealing with stuff. I get a hell of a lot of good information that I can't even. I don't even bet, I won't even, because somebody calls me up and says you know, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, I'm not betting it, I'm not going behind somebody's back and even sticking it in in some, you know, far off accounts. It's like I told you I won't bet it, I'm not going to bet it. 

22:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let me know when I can bet it yeah, no, what would happen, chris? I, by the way, I respect that a lot because that's not the way that the space it works. From my personal experiences, right, a lot of times I think there's people just looking for info rob. 

22:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There's so many more people betting out there that are just like. It's not about just the people who are like openly giving out, so there's 100 more it's run so deep, hold up one, one thing, like at a certain level. 

22:43
So obviously you know you are betting against the sports book. Technically, right, when you're betting, it's the book, but at a certain level, once you cross that threshold, you're no longer betting it's a sports book, you're betting it's other betters, yes, so you, you, it's like a technically a negative. Some game right, because the sports book has to earn two. They're earning off recreational. And then if you're a pro, you really have to have another pro group lose for you to win in any given sport on the season to provide that liquidity. So that's why we can't all get along. 

23:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, I agree, but in Chris's situation right. 

23:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Honor is a big thing. If you're working with someone, then that's zero missed territory. Your honor, your reputation is everything. You can't say oh, I'm not going to bet this out, and then go bet it out. That's an absolute scumbag move. You deserve to not work with that person. 

23:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not disagreeing with that. All I'm saying is that Chris is going to run numbers on games Presumably every week. Like you said, it's bottom up. You have numbers on games. There's going to be certain sides that you like and you're going to now time those sides because you you want to get the best numbers. Generally speaking, right, you know the difference between getting a three on a game and getting a three and a half. It matters. But now if someone else comes to you and and says hey, chris, I like this game and it's the same game that Chris really liked the most, you now get into like this moral compass dilemma of, well, like, am I going to let this number go or am I going to bet it? And I would say that the vast majority of pros out there would probably just bet it at that point I'm just like in the real world. So, because they don't want to cost themselves any points in that scenario, chris, Well, you have a changing dynamic in this market. 

24:18 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Last year we saw some critical mistakes in market reading lines in the NFL betting space, where people were able to influence the lines based on when they wanted to bet a game and they had an inordinate amount of ability to move the line and the market reading was off on multiple occasions. Can you give a? 

24:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
specific, if you don't mind, because I think we're thinking of the same thing, but if you would want to get more specific, that would be great. 

24:57 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Yeah, I always think it's really not that important, because it's it's not. It's an ongoing going problem. It's it's going to become an ongoing problem. So, uh, to isolate one person, you know, uh, there's going to be a handful of these people that are going to be able to move lines and if they don't know what the hell they're doing, well, now, it's like you got to find a way to reach out and say, dude, let me work with you, please. You know, let me help. I'm not trying to take advantage. Let's find a way to work together and not blow up a market, because when you're missing key numbers and you're and you're pulling the trigger too early, it just egregious errors. I mean, you can't. There's not enough games in the season. One mistake, you know, you know, damages a season record in NFL and fortunately there's too few games all year long, so they're all the more important to have right. We're not talking about NBA sides, where you got games every day. 

25:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yep, no, I totally agree with you and and we are talking the same thing there are content creators out there, there's just other personalities with big followings. We have Adam Chernoff, guest youff, a fellow guest of the show Barry Horse, brad Powers. 

26:09 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Fabian. 

26:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Somer Suma, just where anything that they say publicly could potentially have an influence on the line. And not only does it have an influence. In some cases, a lot of people would say that maybe the line over moves because there's so many people willing to follow. So I think we're talking the same thing there. I know, chris. 

26:28
So when we ask the question about you know why do you opt to sell plays which we do to pretty much anyone that opts to sell plays you've given a unique answer here in terms of it keeps you disciplined and you know there's like it motivates you to work harder. Nope, people don't generally give us that answer right. Usually they give us okay, it's the income is good, something like that. Or you know why? Not Because it's not affecting my bottom line. 

26:56
But I'm curious if you actually, because at some point you might've sold, because that was the motivating factor. It's like listen, you know what. I'm donking off money on stupid bets here and there. If I can really like refine this or narrow it in and I have to be responsible to clients, now that can change things for me. Do you think that that still applies? Like, let's say, you were to stop selling now Do you all of a sudden go back into the bad habits that you had? Or do you think you've now evolved enough as a better, where this is kind of your day to day and it's not an issue? 

27:27 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
I can't shake bad habits permanently. I always have leakage at some point and I do stuff I shouldn't do occasionally. But no, yeah, you're exactly right, I do think about that because it's a. It's a centering, it's a. It's a. It's a mental centering and focus, because it would be too easy to become careless and kind of leave things for the last minute and that sort of stuff. It it just makes me more thorough and I I can tell you I've never even touched the money I've earned. It's gone into an account and it's just like who the hell doesn't pick the money is the side part of it. That's the manner of respect for, or an appreciation for, what the person is getting on the other line, because it's not just about what did I bet. It's far more than that. In fact, when I was offering my NFL this year, I made that clear. I go. The least valuable part of what you're getting is what the win-loss result is going to be. This year, the value is going to be that you get 24-7 access to the pro. You get to contact me whenever you want. 

28:46
I'm going to have a you know, weekly video conferencing with people. You want to know why I'm doing stuff. I'm going to explain why I'm doing stuff. Uh, you know, today I put in a you know it's going to sound silly without full context but I put in a uh uh, full context. But I put in a complicated wager, an unusual wager, like if somebody didn't know me they'd say you gave that out to your clients. But I went. 

29:13
When I go through the write up, I explain to them this is why I'm doing it. This is the goal. This is the actual mathematics of it. It breaks out to minus 133. We're going to lay minus 120 on it. We're getting value on something that is just a goal-oriented thing and has nothing to do with just being an action play or anything like that. It's serving a multi-purpose. So when you have all those instances throughout the course of the year to educate people why you're betting certain ways, then that's extremely valuable. 

29:49
And sometimes we underappreciate how people don't understand what we do and people are just shocked sometimes that I'll answer the DM or that I will put myself on video and I will talk to them while I'm working and tell them exactly what I'm doing, exactly what I'm thinking, exactly how I just screwed this up or how I did well here, and that openness is exactly kind of what I went through, coming up with the people that influenced me along the way, where you can apply it directly, because you can't read this stuff in books. A Billy Walters book is going to be great, but living it while you're going through it is going to be great. But you, but you. But living it while you're going through it is going to be your best education. Now you. 

30:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is your perspective on the situation and I personally agree that a lot of times there is value in just being able to connect with somebody who gets the space and answer questions of theirs. Johnny won't even like admitting this, but I'll just be completely upfront. He used to DM me, probably like seven or eight years ago, before he was a seasoned veteran, and if I go through all those DMs now, you'd probably be embarrassed. 

30:58
That's some of the you think, just you, but that's what I'm saying. Like, I do agree that there's inherent value in that right, but at the end of the day, chris, let's say you basis, you're answering questions for people. What happens in the case of a losing season for your clients? This is hypothetical. I know you've actually won for the course of the last six years. I have the access to the numbers, but you have a losing season. 

31:23
What happens in that case? Are the clients satisfied that they were able to learn from you over that capacity, that they got good numbers? Or, at the end of the day, did this just end up amount like as much as you want to say? It's not about the win and loss, right? This is your words, right? At the end of the day, it's not about the win and loss, that's. You know. My premise is that at the end of the day, at the end of the season, someone pays for your services. They care only about the win and loss. The rest of that is a bonus, but if you're not in the green at the end of the year, the rest of the stuff you did doesn't matter. That's going to be the perspective of a lot of clients, in my opinion. 

32:00 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Yeah, it's not about the win or the losses. I know you didn't mean to, but let's make sure we differentiate. It is absolutely about the wins or the losses, but in the context of what I offer it isn't technically the most valuable part of it, in my opinion. 

32:19
Well, if people, if I have, if I, if I had a huge winning year, everything else would have been more important. So it is all about the wins and losses, of course, and I'm not looking to for any excuses for for bad results, and when I do go down down the toilet I tell people I am cold, this is what I bet today. I don't suggest following uh, I'm you know it's, it's, it's your judgment. Uh, I suggest lowering, ignoring, sitting out or proceeding with caution and completely open on that. It's uh because, uh, I just say the way it is just I. 

32:59
There's no way to avoid huge losing streaks and it's going to happen. And, answering your question, I cannot freaking believe how nice people were. I had some big long stretch. It was at the embarrassing level about a year and a half, two years ago, I forget. But I could not believe how nobody gave me crap and everybody was understanding and kind of knew hey, this is the way it goes and I'm just like boy. Does that make me want to just work even harder for these guys? You know, thank you for not trolling me. Thank you for you know. Of course I get the fly by night people that are not in tune on a regular basis that complain and you have a different type of response with those people. But the people that know me, you know really I haven't caught any crap from anybody that has been with me for any period of time. Do you consider yourself a professional sports better? You know what I think. I post. 

34:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What the hell is a special professional? That's what I wanted to get into. So yes, what defines a professional sports veteran? Do you consider yourself one? 

34:28 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
They've had one or two years of success and they've been through the school of hard knocks. 

34:33
They know it all. They can philosophize and they can. They know all the angles and they've been through all the mistakes and it's in the and they haven't been in it and they'll they'll have. You know these claims that, well, I, you know I'm a professional sports better. You know, you know, well, I'm a professional sports better. All these media shows professional sports better, joe Blow, professional sports better, joe Blow. 

34:59
Well, my initial thing is well, it's on my tax returns as professional sports better. But then I sit there and go. Would any of these people have it on their tax returns once? Can you be a professional sports, uh, better, and have a job? Well, you can be a successful one, but it doesn't make you a pro, does it? So I mean, if it's not on your tax returns, that's a big warning sign number one. But then if you're not 100 percent, uh, you know, on the up and up with your government, well, they're not, certainly you're not going to declare it. So there is a valid excuse to not have it on your tax returns. So there's a lot of loopholes to really qualify people to be a professional sports bettor, but is there a bet? 

35:43
amount I mean half the people doing this don't bet, or they're $100 betters. Now where does that come into the context of things? Is bet size important? Is tax returns important? I don't know. I'm asking you, Rob, what is the definition nowadays? 

36:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think there's a universal one. Yeah, there is. 

36:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The majority of your income comes from no just how much, oh you're saying to declare a professional, yeah. 

36:13
Well listen, depending on your state or province, there's an actual definition okay in terms of, in terms of success metric, yeah, it's who who wins the most, and I've been open about saying clear about this who wins the most is the best, right. Okay now in terms of deeming you professional, you're saying yeah, yeah, obviously, the, yeah, the tax return thing. I don't. I mean it's a good argument, but I don't know if that's necessarily the best thing, because it's like-. 

36:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, to Chris's point, I think a lot of people I'm not speaking on my own behalf, but I think a lot of people would try to skirt. 

36:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean, they'll seek out the best tax advisors possible and they'll say do things in this way or pick up a little job over here which advisors possible and they'll say, do things in this way, or pick up a little job over here which you can declare as income, or whatever. So I don't know that that, necessarily, is going to help, right, like the way. So the way I define personally, I don't think I'm a professional, right? Um, I don't consider myself professional, the reason being, like I have you know, my main thing that I'm trying to do is to grow bet stamp, to grow an actual company into something that is a massive success and that I can either continue to run, make money off of, sell, whatever it might be, but that's my main goal. That's my main thing I'm working on right now. Sure, do I also bet? Yeah, of course I'm going to, I'm going to be betting and do I? You know, hope to bet to win money and not to lose money, absolutely, but at the end of the day, that's not my main thing. 

37:28
So the way I consider a professional better, in my opinion, is is that the main income source that you're relying on to sustain your lifestyle, feed your family, save for retirement? If that's the case, I just mentioned those three things. But whatever, if that's your main income stream and you've been able to sustain your life from betting, then you're a professional better. To put it in perspective, rest in peace, dink, who sustained his lifestyle living in Vegas for years and years from being a better, whether that was different types of betting, different this working here, working with this group but he's been betting for that many years. That's a professional better in my opinion, despite the level of success up or down. So I think, chris, when you're looking at this, like yeah, you're, if you're just if your main income stream is your revenue from betting, then you're a professional in my opinion well, it's also time management too. 

38:27 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
What are you spending your time doing? You know, to me it's. You know, somebody mentioned them. Yesterday was a holiday. I go. What Are you? Joking. 

38:38
And there's in there in the industry like, oh well, it's a family day, but what? No, because there were a half a dozen people within the two previous days that had mentioned well, no more off days from here, this, that and the other. And of course there is course. There is to me an off day of like I consider a complete free days. If I only have to do like six hours of stuff, that would be a complete off day in my, the way I process things I think the professional sports better argument is interesting because the there's like this burden of proof on the better. 

39:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's like well, who's to say you are and you aren't? And honestly, we're just never going to get to know that this. This came up in the conversation last week when we were reacting to the dream preview pod and like intentionally, like who are the people that are misleading their audience? You can never really know if somebody comes out and says like for all I know, as an example, simon Hunter could be a pro sports better. I think there's almost 0% chance that that's possible, but it is possible. 

39:38
Maybe there's a lot of stuff I'm not privy to when I'm breaking things down, but what I think ultimately ends up happening is you do get the other people who are pros in the space, who tend to police it, because they are able to smell bullshit when they see it. I think that's what happens in the space nowadays right. It's just if you've done it enough and you've made your income off of betting, it's pretty damn easy to spot the people who are liars or who are fake. Not to a hundred percent level. Maybe be wrong on some people. I was wrong. 

40:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I've been wrong on people before, but technically speaking, the game also changes every year, though that's like not even every month, it's spread, though, between people that give a crap enough to even notice the, the, the posers. 

40:24 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
It's too easy to exist in this environment. Uh, completely unseen. I mean Completely unseen, I mean the people watching this and are in our Twitterverse of gambling. You know familiarity. This is not even 5% of the betting market, much less much less than that. 

40:48
It's not even approaching 5%. So, like you wake up every day, you look at your timeline, you get familiarity with people that we're familiar with and we live in our little space and we kind of think that, well, this is at least the majority of what's out there and it's nothing, it's a pimple, it's literally nothing Fair enough. So that's why it makes it so much easier, like when I. Every time I go into YouTube, I see people getting a zillion hits and it's real interactions with people. I've never heard of these people. Every single time I scroll YouTube, there's new people with huge audiences. Where the hell did they come from? I can't even find them anywhere. 

41:26
Well, I'm not on TikTok. 

41:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is what drove us to create the hammer. To be honest with you is just the amount of people that were getting views in the sports betting content space that were like no, no, this cannot be what's generating 99% of the viewership. But I think it's definitely interesting discussion. We really appreciate your perspective. I also want to get your perspective because you mentioned it in passing not like specifically here, but about like the trolls that are out there, and I remember a couple months ago you posted like a tweet thread about Twitter trolls. Generally speaking, I think everybody has their own way of dealing with the trolls in the space. Some deal with it better than others. I tend to just like mute and ignore people. I really honestly just don't care to see the negativity, but I know it's out there. You seem to be. You approach it more head on, I would say, than a lot of people that I know, and I'm curious what the reasoning is for that. 

42:42 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
I basically was laughed at for not blocking people and even paying people the time of day by a lot of people in the space. Why would you do that? And I just had the 100% different perspective of you know, kill them with kindness. I've never I shouldn't say this, but I've never blocked a single person and trust me, the crap. 

43:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I had come out of my timeline. You shouldn't have said that, Chris. 

43:06 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Yeah, but that's the way it is. I and I, I I ignore people Like. I've gotten to the point where I have a criteria that I've tweeted out. If you which are all completely irrational things and if you're going to have one of these irrational traits within whatever you are trying to include me in on, well, then I'm not going to take the time to you know, bend over to you know, break bread. Okay. If you cannot communicate in a civil way, with respect, knowledgeable, no, I mean, you can't do anything. You just ignore those people and they give up. 

43:49
But the the the thing about it is there is nobody that is happy, that is going to waste their time and spend their time and energy to try to make other people unhappy. So if you can process the fact that the only people doing this are people that are having life management issues, frustrations with kids and family, and they're just unhappy, then you come from more of an understanding sort of way, and it doesn't matter how vicious and cruel and vile they are. That just tells you even more how they're hurting and it's like I don't want to add to their hurt, even though they're trying to hurt me, and you'd be shocked at the number of people I've turned around that started off trolling me, and I'll just be nice and they don't expect it, or I'll correct them on something they're saying Well, where did you hear that? Well, can you give me an example? No, I got it. I heard it from somebody. 

44:57
Well, let me show you this. And I completely, you know, contradict what they're doing. I'm so sorry, you know, I thought these guys knew what they were talking about. I was kind of following the herd. Okay. 

45:10
But little things like that. Keep on. Those are wins for me, because if I wasn't doing this, I would like to be a shrink. I would love to help people. When I was in retail, 10% of my employees 220 employees cried with me at one point or another. It's life management skills, and you know it's important to respect other people and to be real with them and understanding with people and to look how you can bridge gaps with people rather than how you can alienate more people. Life sucks in general when you get out of our little landscape. Why do we want to alienate more people? I want to embrace other people. You don't have to like me. A lot of people dislike me, and with good reason. I'm an ass, but I'm a nice guy too. What you see is what you get, but if you understand these people are miserable and you just try to be nice to them, that really keeps a lot of them away, frankly, and it just makes me feel better too. 

46:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You mentioned that you've had some emotional experiences in the past when you were doing the retail management, so obviously connected with people pretty closely at one time or another. Are there any, let's say, mentors or individuals throughout your journey, as getting from there to sports betting, that had a significant impact on you and your career? 

46:40 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Oh, absolutely. I mean, in fact, it was so funny too because I just sent one a voicemail the other day and I said you're the last person on the planet that would want any recognition. And I just feel bad because you are always in my thoughts when I'm you know, so often and and I would love nothing more than to amplify you and thank you, you know publicly, but that's not what you're about and but it's important that somehow you understand from me, whether I voice it or not, how important you've been and I don't ever forget it. And, uh, that was met with some, some nice appreciation and there's a lot of people along the way and this is sound like complete and utter horseshit. You guys can be my mentor, you guys can inspire me, anybody can inspire me, and I can learn from them. And if you have an open mind to absorb what each person does, well, admire that and say I admire what that person does doing this. How can I incorporate that into who I am? How can I incorporate that into who I am? Well, people remotely mentor like that. So I'm always looking to absorb. I don't know it all. I never will. 

48:00
As far as I'm concerned, the more you learn, the more you realize how dumb you are. So it comes from all aspects I've had. But again, I think what benefits me the most is I don't. I think, when people are networking and that sort of thing, that they don't value the networking and the possible longevity of future relationships enough and they don't nurture them in private and discrete manners like they should. So it's important to me to do that. It's important for me to maintain friendship. So it's not about you know, I can't really I don't feel comfortable naming names because you're always going to leave people out and, quite frankly, I don't think anybody that I would name would want me to name them. So and that's what helps me fly under the radar with a lot of different relationships, because I've lost touch with people over the last couple of years with the COVID thing and being overworked and stuff, and I've bounced back into a couple recently and we pick right back up. 

49:08
May not have talked to this guy in four years, but we can do business today. You know lots of credit, don't have to worry about getting paid Whatever here. Take some accounts. You know all kinds of that stuff. Those are from relationships I built long ago and you don't have to maintain them religiously on an ongoing basis. But you build them and they're part of what made you today. Basis, but you build them and they're part of what made you today, and you just never know when those resources are going to be of benefit down the road. And it's great to have those in your arsenal of being able to search out knowledge. 

49:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think that's very honest. A lot of that resonated with me, especially the value of the networking, I think, with both of us me and Johnny. We you know we find a lot of value in being able to establish relationships with other people and keep those going over time, so I think that was a really good answer, Chris, and a lot of people will take something away from that as a whole. 

50:11 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Another interesting thing is this space. The smart people I know work with the people they don't like and you don't, and like I, work with people I don't like and they know I don't like them and I know they don't like me, but business is business and you you compartmentalize the way you're going to manage relationships, and if you can both benefit and get along, no problem. You don't have to like each other. You have to respect each other, though. 

50:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's a very good way of putting it. On a personal level, something that frustrated me for years was when I finally got to the level of being I'll call it a pro sports better or full-time sports better. The people that were the most vocal against me in the space were people that were indirectly actually benefiting from a lot of the stuff I did, or even, in some cases, directly through relationships and stuff like that. And it took me a long time to really process that, and it's like how can someone be so horrible to me as a person when they're directly benefiting from the stuff that I'm doing in the betting space for them? And it took a long time for me to separate the fact that someone can really respect you but they don't have to like you, um, and I, I I mean, I think that's a really good way to sum up the space, cause I actually do think that there's a lot of mutual respect in this. Like even people, even a guy like Fezzik for so many years, who gets like a lot of hate from a community. 

51:45
I actually do think there are. There are people that hate him. Period, let's. Let's call it off for what it is. There's only. But I actually do think that there's people that respect him, and it's not just him. I could have used any name. It's just topic of topical or top of mind because of the last episode we did. But I do think that there's a lot of people out there that are genuinely respected but not necessarily liked. Could be the personas as well, and maybe I don't have the persona to be liked because I'm pretty brash. 

52:14 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
I didn't have any dealings with Steve basically prior to a couple of months ago and I had my opinion of him and you know which is his Twitter persona and I also, you know, had little issues within myself with you know little. You know contest posturing in my brain. You know, hey, this is Mr Two-Time Champion from. Uh, you know, hey, this is mr two-time champion from. You know, yeah, horse and buggy days and, and here's me, you know, doing stuff now and uh, uh, which is, you know, obviously I'm saying that in jest because it doesn't matter when it. Those are accomplishments that can't be taken away and I don't care. It's hard to win any contest, so uh, uh, it does, but that's so. I had my perceptions of them, whether it might be, uh, you know all we went all full circle, the twitter persona, stuff that goes around in my head. I remember I pulled them aside one time a few years ago and I wanted to challenge them. 

53:20
You know I I'm sitting there like I'm embarrassed by it, cause I was kind of I look back, I go you're being like you were really unfair to him, just kind of you know, hey, let's pull them out and slap them on the table right here and see who wins. You know, one of those types of insecurity type challenges. And I was. When I look back at him as I'm, as a dick to him, and I haven't even told him this, but I would look back and go I was a dick Because I was trying to be a tough guy oh, you don't want to, or whatever and it was just all silly and stupid. 

53:56
But the point I bring this up this guy is the nicest guy, unbelievable. He's been the nicest guy, unbelievable. Has it been the nicest guy? You'd never believe it based on his Twitter personality and, but I've always heard this from people that do know him personally. So it's it's. It's consistent, which with what I've heard for 10 years from people that know him as a friend and I can tell you, while I've only known him personally for a couple of months, he's so painfully misunderstood because he is a genuinely nice guy. 

54:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I think that people have a moral dilemma with some of the stuff that he does and that's just general pick sales and that leads to a lot Like. I would agree with you. I've had very limited interactions with the man. I think he's a nice guy, but at the end of the day, if you don't believe in pick sales or touting or anything like that and you feel that that is ethically wrong, then you draw a line in the sand and you say everyone on this line who does that, I don't consider them to be a good person and I don't think that's unfair. I really don't. I think that there's some lines of work where if somebody was put in that situation and you know, know, even if it was a close friend of mine, I'd just draw the line and say like no, I don't stand for this. I, I just don't think that that's a good human quality. You can agree to disagree, but I I think that that I mean that's kind of where steve gets the rap from- but I think that. 

55:16 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
But but that's sort of like saying, um, uh, joe, you know, joe, blow over here is a liberal and uh, I, I don't respect liberals. I, I, you know, that's his whole personality, that's always. That's always his substance has to be about uh, I, I can't have anything in common, I mean it's that's. 

55:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's a little different, though now. Now we're told like we got political beliefs, it could. It could be sort of belief. This is a hard line on whether or not people think that pick sales are a form of a scam. 

55:47 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Essentially are all out, and there's one category of it and that's you're whoring your stuff out, uh, uh, to the masses and, uh, taking advantage of them. I mean you're, you're, you're essentially chasing people down on the street, holding them down, sticking a needle in their arm, telling them that they have to do this and, uh, you're going to turn them into a pick junkie. I mean, there's who's determined that there's only one category of somebody that makes picks available. 

56:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean you're not going to get any argument for me. 

56:25 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Yeah, that the vast majority of the space is is really bad. Okay, you're not going to get any argument, but there's more than one category of people that make information and picks available. 

56:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I agree with you, by the way, I think we all agree with you. I, I don't think it. So who determines it? Nobody does. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Right, there was a guy, but you just said you. 

56:52
You say, I've got this hard line here, you've already everybody's, I'm talking about like a let's say like a more drastic thing than pick selling, where I think every human would have a hard line with some certain things or anything like that from a pick. I sold picks before. Uh, I, I, I just tried to do it in a way that I thought was, um, morally correct. People view what I do now and monetizing the uh sports book revenue as, uh okay, rob's a scumbag and they're entitled to that opinion. Anyone is entitled to the opinion. I don't necessarily agree, but there's certainly a very vocal majority. It's a vocal minority that lumps all of pick sellers into one and if you sell picks you're scum and I don't agree with that. But ultimately, I mean, people are entitled to their opinions and those people are particularly vocal about it. It's the nature of the business. 

57:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So I agree with Chris there, by the way, nothing wrong with like honestly, anyone can kind of do what they want, there's nothing really wrong with it. But I also think that there's an evolution coming. 

57:58 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
There's an evolution that is going to be demanded by the consumer. So this is a good kind of a growth period and I'm nobody okay, I'm literally a pimple in that landscape of things. I mean, I have people that have been following me for 10 years that don't even realize that I have been involved in that. I basically, other than this year, had a hard fast rule that four times a year will I reference that you can go someplace else if you want to get more information, but you know I'm not out there like other people every day. You know my touch on something you said earlier I don't need to see that crap every day. You know that's kind of crossing a line that I don't want to see where. Then it becomes a little distasteful. But the consumer is going to end up demanding more at some point in time, and they should, because I shouldn't just be, as a consumer, sending you my credit card number and just getting your picks, and it has to evolve into something like I'm trying to do with all the time access, video conferencing, lengthy write-ups, strategy discussions and teachings, and you're hitting hardcore, important things that are imperative that betters learn and live through. You know, show them and live through variance with them. Yep, you know you don't get too high with them. You never celebrate, I, you know. No, you don't do that because you don't. 

59:40
When things go bad, you can't have a pity party either. You know how are the. You know what are the mental issues. How do you deal with betting and life, real world problems that you have? How do you get them to coexist? How do you get to be open and honest with yourself, to make yourself in a position to succeed as a better, to exclude yourself from things that are going to disrupt the way you're able to bet successfully? You know, if you aren't able to have the mental maturity to understand, I can't be around these guys on Sundays because I'm going to end up putting in a toilet roll of crap just to be one of the guys, you know. Or if you don't have the mental maturity enough to know that you have to stay away from the wife at certain periods because she's going to make you do something or make you aggravate, and then it's going to be her fault that the game's lost or you bet wrong, right. 

01:00:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know. So, like I used to share the same opinion as you and I thought that we would see more of an evolution in the pick selling space. But as time goes on, I honestly don't think we will, because I think there's so many and again, I don't wanna like make this seem like we're the only, like the people who are consuming this content are the only educated ones in the space. There's obviously a lot more, but I think too many people just cannot decipher, like, between good and bad in the space. Like I think back to myself even 10 years ago, maybe 15 years ago, coming out of high school, going to college, you know, trying to get into sports betting, but again using Google as a use, google as a tool now to try to understand sports betting, and you're just going to get a bunch of crap. 

01:01:21
That's the reality of the situation. You're going to get a bunch of crap public bet percentages, reverse line movement, this and that just like nothing that's really going to be of value to you, and a lot of that is even dominated by pick sales companies as well. You know, it's just so difficult for a regular person to get into the space and not learn a lesson the hard way and because of that, pick services and I'm not suggesting yours is anything like this, chris. It could be, it couldn't be. Whatever. I don't mean to make a suggestion, but pick services in general can prey upon people just because they don't know any better, and I don't know how we're ever going to like what is the path to that ever changing? 

01:02:07 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Education, education. You know I see a lot of misguided people building up their what they're trying to do in the space, skipping the most obvious. You know you build a house. That's what you do. Whatever you're going to build, build the house from the foundation up. What are you missing? And media companies and educational companies and people building into the space, all without exception, are missing key parts that are painfully obvious, that need to be done, and that's education, I know. 

01:02:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think we're ever going to get there. 

01:02:47 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
But it's education from the bottom up, yeah, and there's ways to do it. That nobody does it and at some point they will. But you will never dent the market to get to what I think the point you're making is You're never going to get a come to Jesus, to jesus, moment from all, from everybody, where everybody just all of a sudden understands of course. 

01:03:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's never going to happen well, if one percent of the market is educated and let's say 90 of that, one percent, if not higher than that, are scared to educate other people because they think it's going to like diminish their edge in some capacity or you just end up getting like I mean, what are the like? What are what are the educational spots in the space outside of our podcast right now that you could go to regularly if you want it to be a sports better? 

01:03:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
so, honestly, there's not much beginner content out there. That's the. That's another thing like how to's yeah things the right way from like a beginner thing yeah, it's all. 

01:03:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's all recycled seo content. 

01:03:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I also struggle sending this podcast to like friends and stuff right, because it's uh, it's a little bit advanced in the sense that you don't really enjoy the content unless you already bet every day and kind of know what you're doing. Yep, uh, if you're just starting from scratch, then you, you know you barely. Again, everyone starts from scratch at one point. At some point everyone, no matter how big you bet now, was betting five, ten bucks and sweating it out. But if you're at that level now and you're just learning, like, what a spread is, what a money line is what, whatever the pod, this podcast even is not much value for you. 

01:04:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah I mean, I don't I the. The thing is like the what is a spread? What is a money line? That's been done, a milk like that, that's for sure. 

01:04:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But even like people who bet, let's say, someone who just bets one book right now. Yep, they got one account and they just load it up every football season with 500 bucks and then they just place like 20 parlays in every weekend same game parlays, touchdown scores, whatever, like. How's that person gonna learn to win betting? Do they even want to? Do they even need to? 

01:04:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
well, that that's the thing it's. So like the demographics, right. Like do we overvalue the percentage of people that we think actually want to win at betting? 

01:04:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I feel like everyone wants to win. 

01:04:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They just don't want to put in any effort whatsoever but do they want to win on their own terms, like because think like I think about my buy someone's picks to win Right Happily and honestly. 

01:05:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Pick selling is actually good for mental pick buying Because, like it just keeps the fun in betting. If you're making the picks yourself and you lose, you're like I suck at betting, it's true. 

01:05:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Gives you someone else to blame. 

01:05:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If I buy Pozzola's picks go down 16 units. What's the like? I'll just be like, oh, he had a bad run, but historically this guy's won. Whatever it's going to turn around, but also it's not you. 

01:05:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You will convince yourself, it's not on I'm not having even a bad time. 

01:05:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm just like all right, we got to just get through this run. And then you have puzzle being like all right, here's the picture tomorrow, unfazed. You're like all right, it's good. 

01:05:32 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
But do you jenny? What, just what do you think like in your mind? What do you think the pick purchasing community consists of? So if you just had a, you know you cut the, you know the pie and you looked at it, what do you think is in that pie? Like, what type of people, the people that are that are purchasing picks, what are those people? What traits, goals or what type of people do you feel fit that pie chart? 

01:06:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, I mean, there's going to be a wide variety of people, a wide variety like demographics, age range, countries, everything like that, but what I think the main, one consistent point is that they all are looking to win. No one's buying picks, paying money out of pocket, expecting that they're going to lose from those picks. It just like it doesn't mathematically make sense for someone to ever dish out money. Yeah, like expecting to lose more money off the picks. If anything, they just make the picks themselves without paying an extra fee. 

01:06:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think, like from my inner friend group, which is a very small sample we're talking like a dozen people all of who've bought picks at some point or another. From what I see personally is people who do not want to have to do the work, Like they just don't have the time to spend on handicapping Do you think the picks are going to win? They obviously all think the picks are going to win. No one's buying picks because they think it's so that's what. 

01:06:58
I'm saying or they're buying them because they think they're so bad they can fade but, it's the same thing. They think they can win off of those. But I think time savings is a big factor. I think people who don't want to bear the responsibility of making the pick themselves is also a way bigger factor than people will realize so I I don't think your answer is any different than what I was thinking, you know, years ago. 

01:07:30 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
The obvious void here is that there's neither of you came up with that. There's a aggressive, knowledgeable group of people that's involved in this. What shocks the hell out of me is my perception of what the pick buyer would be is entirely different than the realities of it. Now, of course, you have a large segment, which are what we envision, but the percentage of people that are out there that are not looking to blame people they're looking to learn, they're looking to compare and many of them are sharper than I am in many ways. 

01:08:16
I have met so many people that were clients that are doing stuff that blows my mind and they're completely under the radar. They do their thing, they, they and they're very talented in their own right and it helps their process to be, you know, whatever it at some juncture. It helps their process to be involved with me. I've got people that bet insane amounts of money involved in the space and they are sharp, they care about their money. They don't want to waste their time or energy with you, know failures and stuff. They don't. They know how to navigate through the BS. 

01:08:57
And you've got other people that are buying all the services. I don't know anybody, basically, other than really hardcore originators that haven't. It's much easier to just buy a service than to try to just get it. You know, there's ways to get them free, so there's the direct route, there's a convenience. There's just a lot of little different things that people can benefit from, but we're all doing it amongst ourselves, sharing information with other people one way or another, and that's perhaps the way that they prefer to do it. They don't have the time they actually have things to offer themselves, but this is the easiest way for them to do it. So a lot of interesting people, a lot of interesting people out there. 

01:09:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Chris, we appreciate your time today. We're going to close off here with the same two questions now that we typically ask everyone. So we introduced a segment a while back plus EV, minus EV Doesn't have to be related to sports betting. Could be anything in life, totally up to you. But one thing that you think is plus ev in life and one thing you think is my minus ev in life one word and it works for both. 

01:10:09
Okay, take a guess no, I'm not guessing habits habits there's nothing more important than habits why would it be minus minus ev, in the sense that bad habits? 

01:10:25 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
bad habits bring you down, good habits bring you up. 

01:10:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right. Very philosophical answer there Go to the gym, everyone. 

01:10:34 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Gym healthy eating. Yeah, it's that simple. It's that simple. 

01:10:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair enough Habits, okay, okay, and last question, rob. 

01:10:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you could go back five years in time, talk to a previous version of yourself. What advice would you give to your former self? 

01:10:50 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Oh, that's pretty easy and that is to be comfortable with your skin and be yourself. But that seems to be the reoccurring every five year thing, if that makes any sense. Because but when you're navigating social media and you're trying to do this, whatever you're doing you should be doing for yourself, not to climb social status, build ego. Whatever you're doing should be for your process and don't worry about what anybody else is doing. Worry about yourself. And if you're, there's nothing. 

01:11:32
If people tell you that they, you know, are different than other people because they do this, this and this, and they always have to point it out say, well, this is why we're different or this is why I'm different, and they keep pointing it out, well, it really just basically says the opposite. Because a lot of people are trying to climb up too fast. You know they've had a little bit of success and want the attention and they see how other people get it, maybe sometimes too fast, and they want that and the the very, very best way to earn it is to just be yourself and you have to be recognized, because if you have to tell somebody else what you're about, then you're not that. You are what you are. 

01:12:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There you las vegas chris. You can follow him on twitter or x at las vegas chris. That's chris cris. He's a professional sports better. We talked about that earlier on the podcast. You can catch him with the bet us nfl team wednesdays this year jared smith and steve fezik a part of that and also check out his own content on youtube under the channel las vegas chris. He does some good stuff with ron over there. I've caught some of that stuff in the past as well, so make sure that you do check that out. And if you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you smash that like button down below. It does help people find our content and give us a sub as well. We want to get over the 3k subscriber mark, so subscribe, hit the notification bell and we'll catch everyone next week here on Circles Off. 

01:13:00 - Las Vegas Cris (Guest)
Thank you, chrisris thanks, guys appreciate it.