00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
and I'm guilty of this and have been many times in my life before. You've probably been guilty in your group chats with your friends getting together to watch games with people, but in 2024 you will not see me at any point celebrate a win on a game until it's over. Come on, let's go. Welcome to circles off episode number 135 right here here, part of the Hammer Betting Network Presented by Pinnacle Sportsbook. Happy New Year, everyone out there. It's 2024, but it's the same cast as usual Rob Pizzola, johnny from Betstamp, zach Phillips behind the fake glass that we have back there. 

00:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
How are things going? Happy New Year, rob. 2024 is going to be a big year, and listen to everyone listening at home whether you think it's going to be a big year or not. If you say it's going to be a big year, you're automatically increasing your chances of it being a big year. It's at least a percent higher chance of it being a big year, so you better all be saying 2024 is going to be a big year. I think we should start here, if you have any listen. New year's resolution. A lot of people oh, what is that? You should just make the changes. But listen, we're here. This is the intro of the show. I don't think we have anything else to talk about right now. What's your new year's resolution? 

01:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Rob. Okay, so I I'm going to. I'm just going to come right on and say this I'm not a new year's resolution type of guy and this is going to sound conceited, I don't care. Again, I'm very honest with with my thoughts on this program. 

01:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
but like if I want to better myself in some way, it doesn't have to be in January of 2024. Like I, what better time than right now, though? So forget about even new year's resolution. Just start now, then. Well, how are you going to? What are you doing? 

01:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, so like I'm comfortable with my life right now, like I do some things wrong, I wish I had some more time to do certain things or whatever, but generally speaking, I'm pretty happy with where I am. There's one thing I'll tell you I won't do in 2024. Okay, let's hear it. There's an epidemic in the sports betting community. We've talked about many of these before, but this one has gotten truly out of hand. Okay, and I'm guilty of this and have been many times in my life before. You've probably been guilty in your group chats with your friends getting together to watch games with people. But in 2024 you will not see me at any point celebrate a win on a game until it's over. Okay, because in the last month alone, I don't believe in mushes and stuff like that, but but I'm actually starting to believe in it Because teams will go up like 21-0. Someone will quote, tweet another. This happens with Knish Fezzik, blue Horseshoe, like in that community, but everywhere else where people are like great bet, idiot or whatever, it's like wait till the game is over. I remember a couple weeks ago, christmas Eve, right, I'm getting text messages. It was the Patriots. It was like how did you know? How did you know the Patriots are going to win Because I told a couple friends the Patriots money line. I'm like dude Chill, the game's not done yet, we still got another quarter. I'm done with that. 

02:57
I've been guilty of it. Everybody wants to pat themselves on the back, especially themselves on the back, especially very early, but it can have very negative repercussions and you'd end up on the freezing cold. Takes account, I've been there before people. Don't be that person. Just wait till the game is final. You want to bet a friend's pick? They send something to you. Congratulate them when it's over. Don't send them a message in the second quarter like how did you know? Great pick. Don't do that stuff, and especially not in a public forum. Done, it's over. New Rob Pizzola in 2024. I'm waiting until the games are final, johnny. 

03:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's what I'm doing. That is a phenomenal resolution. You gotta wait till the games are final. 

03:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not really bettering my life in any way, but you know what I've thought to myself. How many times have I sent somebody something like this? I've been that guy before. You know my guy who sends me some NBA stuff every now and then I'll look at the score. I'll get an update. In the third quarter Team's up by 40. They don't cover an eight-point spread, but I sent him a message saying, like great pick with the Rockets. Well, you know, and now I'm the asshole. I I'm not doing that stuff anymore, no more. 

04:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm done with that, no more. All right. So my resolution if you want to call it that just something I've been doing, focusing on more health, stuff like that that's already being executed this one is just someone had told me about this, I think I'm going to try it out, all right, so I'm going. I got to still set some time to do this. I'm gonna go through my contacts in the phone. 

04:27
If I also want to be a better friend this year not not necessarily friend, friend, family, whatever one easy way, easy value should be calling people on their birthday if, if they are a true person in your life, like whatever mom, dad, aunt, uncle. Obviously people call their mom and dad, very obvious. But you know, aunt, uncle, cousin, friend, whatever says a really nice thing, nice gesture, give him a call right in the morning. Obviously, people call their mom and dad, it's very obvious. But you know, aunt, uncle, cousin, friend, whatever Says a really nice thing, nice gesture, give him a call right in the morning. Hey, buddy, thought of you, it's your birthday, happy birthday, we're going to crush it. What are you doing tonight? Let's go, let's go for a lunch, whatever. I want to be the guy that texts everybody on their birthday and then you just have the text chain hey, happy birthday, buddy Thanks. And then they send it to you Happy birthday, buddy Thanks. Happy birthday, that's. That's not for me. 

05:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That can't be happening either, and you know. You know that the other person's noticing that too. 

05:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
For sure. 

05:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
When it's just like it's you doing it, you're not even my friend anymore, Like I knew you at one point. But why am I doing this? I agree with you there. 

05:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So what I'm going to do is I'm going to go through the contacts and it's basically going to be I might send the reminder there to make sure I'm not free on the birthday, or, if not, you know what Potential? Just delete the contact, and that might be. That might be the move. 

05:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I haven't decided yet, but again, if this was told to me, I think I think I'm going to try it this year. So so, like, listen, I said this on this show before but like, if I don't wear a shirt in a year, I donate it to charity, I get rid of it. I maybe should consider the same thing with contact I. You know how many contacts I have in my phone. I've had the same phone number since I was 15 years old. We're going on 20 plus years of contacts that are built up attached and I, I, I actually don't even remember. Sometimes I'm going through trying to find a number. I don't even remember who some of these people are. 

06:17 - Zack Phillips (Other)
This is not a way to live. 

06:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is not a way to live. I mean, it's not a bad idea. Start fresh every now and then, If somebody hasn't reached out to you and called you in 15 years or messaged you why the hell are you holding on to that contact? 

06:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's what I'm saying. If it's been 10 years, you can call it declutter the mind, potentially. 

06:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, anyways, all my friends from high school are still in my phone. It's like I haven't talked to you in 15 years. 

06:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, some of them 25 years honestly. 

06:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't mind that man, and speaking of 25 years, 25 years in business for the world's greatest sportsbook, pinnacle Sportsbook, available to bettors across Canada. Find out what the pros have known for decades Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. Saying this very candidly, not as part of an ad read I've been betting at Pinnacle for a long time. I would highly recommend that, if you do have that sportsbook available to you, you do bet there. Great Low prices, competitive prices. You're treated with respect, sick of sportsbooks limiting you, treating you differently than your buddy who might lose money there. You don't have to worry about that. With Pinnacle Sportsbook, they treat everyone equally. Bet smart, bet Pinnacle in business for 25 years. You must be 19 plus not available in the US and, of course, 2024. 

07:30
I'm going to hit home with the message right out of the gate this year, please play responsibly. I had, in the last week of 2023, some DMs on Twitter which I just had to tell some people. You're sweating these games way too much in my DMs. I don't mind if you DM me every now and then, but like you're riding on every single pass here, in the fourth quarter, you probably got a little bit too much money in play. If that's, you, figure it out. There's resources out there. Dm me, I can help you out in some capacity, but start the year off in a right way. 

08:03
If're sweating these games too hard, you got too much money in play, tone it down. There's no point in living your life like that. It's a lot of anxiety, a lot of stress. I've been there before, so play responsibly. And if you are in canada and you do want to sign up to pinnacle, use code hammer to do so. Thankful for everyone who supported us here on circles off. That's just another way that you can do so. And before we start with our part two of our Q&A, which we started last week, we're going to get into some more personal stuff. Today I got a bone to pick with people to start 2024 as well. I went through our entire 2023 here on the Circles Off YouTube channel. We grew significantly. We grew at a rate of like four or five times more than the previous year, but 67 percent of our total watches last year came from people who are not subscribed to our circles and we appreciate you, the people who aren't subscribed as well well, we would appreciate you a lot more if you subscribed 

09:00
yeah, I guess on a I'll take a view, but I'll take a view in a sub any day over a view. Smash that sub button down below. Turn on the bell notifications. You'll get notified whenever we put out new content here on Circles Off in 2024. And, of course, if you like what we're doing, let us know. Smash that like button down below as well. Takes two seconds, Thumbs up. Last thing we do read every comment. I try to respond to a lot of comments, positive or negative. I take all the feedback. It's valuable to us. If there's ever anything you want to see on the show, something that we talk about on the show which you might disagree with, agree with, let us know down in the comments below as well. We're building a community here. At least that's what we're trying to do. By the end of this year I'll be very disappointed if we're not at least 10K subs on this YouTube channel. So we're going to grow it this year big time. It takes a lot of help from the community. Please help us do so 10K. 

09:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think we're aiming too low. 

09:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's go for 100K. I actually have a higher goal, but let's start there, all right. 

09:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
First question up. This one's from NickelbagDbagJohnson. What johnson um what nickel bag d bag nick at. Uh d swag. Johnson that guy. Oh, I know what you're talking about. Okay, why not do a podcast every two or three weeks and throw out all the trash filling guests? You have no, no stacks. George eric eager, random no guests. Episodes more like get on guests. Like call cuss service. Anino Trenhale. 

10:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, this is the first thing we're doing in 2024. Nickelbag D Johnson swag. Okay, I saw this tweet come in two weeks ago. This, in my opinion, is one of the most absurd questions I've ever been asked in my entire life. Like this is bordering on insanity. I can't even believe that we're answering this, that this question was asked and that we're answering it. 

10:54
Why not do less episodes? How about? Just don't listen to the episodes you don't want to listen to? How is this that hard Like you're? 

10:59
It's not like you're suggesting that we just cut out the guests and just replace them and we do a weekly with all you know sharp sports bet, sports bettors. This is like just just cut out episodes. Don't listen. What do you want me to tell you? This is the. This is an insane question, like the amount of privilege to ask this type of question. Not only that. First of all, no stacks, george. I like that. That's very funny. I'm going to use that going forward. 100%, that will be used. I do appreciate that. Eric Eager, in my opinion, is like a 99th percentile football analyst in the world. If you can't take anything away from an episode with Eric Eager, then don't listen. What am I going to tell you, but I'm not going to stop having him on because football evolves and I'd like to talk to someone about that evolution of the game and how we can apply it to sports betting in some capacity. 

11:48
Random no guest episodes. Lots of people tell us that those are their favorite episodes For every person. That's like, get these people on. We have other people on the other side of the spectrum who are like, yeah, don't do that, do less guest episodes. So how do we cater to everyone? I'll tell you how. I'm an analytical person. We evaluate everything, both on our YouTube channel and from our podcast network as well, and we cut out stuff that doesn't work and we do stuff that does. But this I want to make this abundantly clear to everyone I win money at sports betting. Johnny wins money at sports betting. 

12:22
This is not exclusively a sharp sports betting podcast and that's not like what we're gonna do. We're not gonna interview every sharp better that ever existed. We'll run out of guests as well by the end of 2024, because there's just not a lot of call customer services and Antonino DeRosa's and Matthew Trenhale that are gonna come on a podcast regularly. It's not gonna happen. And on top of that our goal is to cater to a wider audience of people. This is why we do Q&As. Some of you sharp sports bettors don't get much out of the Q&As, but you'll get a lot out of the Trenhale episode. You'll get a lot out of Antonino De Rosa, barry Horse, whatever you want to do, but that's it. We do our own podcast. Luckily for us, we get say over what happens. We value the feedback. 

13:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This to me is an absurd question. Hey, buddy, buddy, how do you think you get bigger guests? Also, you got to build up the show, build up the listeners. You don't just only put out oh yeah, we got these big guests. 

13:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That doesn't work like that anyways but enough on this guy, it's all good. All right, let's go on. Yes, okay, uh, god turned on this guy, all good. 

13:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, go ahead, let's go on. Yes, okay, got turned on to this pod a few months ago. I've been listening nonstop. We appreciate that. Thank you very much. Almost through every episode. Now, keep going. It's a long ride but you're not going to regret it. 

13:50
No-transcript, gonna learn some more and keep sending in questions as we can. Um, in terms of the horse racing, casino games and the poker, all right, the main thing why we haven't, main reason why we haven't covered these topics, simply put, speaking for the both of us, is like I know that rob and I we we don't, uh, have an edge in casino games or horse racing, so it's hard for us to then now share perspective and provide value on horse racing when, to be honest, I don't really know how the market works. I've never really bet horse racing other than a couple bucks on tickets when I went to the track at over at Woodbine here for some fun and, to be honest, what I did there was pick random horses and I don't think I'm going to win money doing that. So I don't really have much to offer on that. 

14:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I think like the question is would we ever consider doing full episodes? 

14:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
on those who got the right guest. 

14:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, and when I went to Bet Bash last year 2023, I met actually a lot of good horse racing bettors that I considered having on the show. Part of it is demographics as well. I don't want to give out our exact split, but Ontario sports books are not legally allowed to offer horse racing right now. A lot of our viewership and listenership does come from Ontario, so we're alienating a portion of our user base if we do a full horse racing episode Ontario. So we're alienating a portion of our user base If we do a full horse racing episode. 

15:10
I am interested in these topics, don't get me wrong. I grew I started, you know, making money originally in poker in my early twenties. I love poker. I think the game's fascinating. I think there's some applications from that to sports betting. So it's in consideration. I'm definitely not going to commit to it, but honestly, let us know honestly down in the comments below If this is something. We did a crypto episode with Cheds. We did NFT episodes when we first started the podcast. We will branch out if there's enough of an appetite for it, but it does have to be the right guest and the right conversation. 

15:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Rob, and what's your preferred method of staking there? 

15:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So traditionally I'm going to use like a kelly staking. 

15:46
Uh, usually one quarter kelly, not, not, not 50 kelly not 50 kelly, quarter kelly, sometimes one fifth kelly, which is 20. Now this is not for everyone. This doesn't mean because I do that you have to do it oftentimes. The honest to god truth is sometimes when you're betting, you actually can incorporate, can't incorporate kelly and you just have to estimate your edge and your bet size on the fly, because if you don't beat someone else to the market then you're going to just be left in the dust. So, typically speaking, I do prefer a kelly approach. It's not the be all and end all, and one thing about using the Kelly criterion to stake your bets is, over time you kind of start to understand this type of edge Is this much of a bet? And you can just start to like I'll call it fake Kelly staking, where you kind of know roughly what your bet sizes are supposed to be, and you go from that approach. 

16:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And oftentimes that is like good enough, like 80 for the 20, it might be able to get that done and be accurate. 

16:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You don't need to have the perfect down to the dollar. I mean, in a perfect world you do. But last thing I'll say on this and then we'll move on. We've got lots of questions, but it also just depends on the market. Like sometimes there's a market that could be very small and you're just gonna bet as much as humanly possible into that market, even if it doesn't satisfy, like your Kelly bet, because big edge, that's what you wanna go to. So there's a lot that goes into it. But I just wouldn't. I don't flat stake is all Like. I just don't bet one unit on every single thing. I think if you have a larger edge on something, you should bet more on that. 

17:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Generally speaking, Okay, understood there. Up next, this one's from AnthonyJQ1NY. 

17:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I saw the Simon. This guy hates us. I've seen comments from him before. 

17:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I saw the Simon Hunter hit piece. You guys are calling out a guy who is giving out plays for free in all capitals. Why not go after guys who are charging people to do the same thing? So, rob, you can take this one. 

17:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Do we never? Do we not do that sometimes as well? 

17:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
yeah, we do I mean, listen we this? I shouldn't even put this in the no. No, I like this. 

18:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I actually like this question. I, I this. This thing is. We're starting 2024 hot here. One thing that drives me crazy are when people justify that somebody's able to give out bullshit because it's free, like no. If you go to a mechanic and you say, buddy, I need my tires rotated, and he's like I'll do it for free, and then you show up afterwards and guess what? He didn't rotate your tires. That doesn't make him any better than the guy who charged you 20 bucks to rotate your tires. And he's still a fucking scam artist. Piece of shit. It doesn't make a difference. So enough with the giving out plays for free. Yes, he's giving out, he is giving out advice for free. That is making betters worse. So I don't care about the hit piece, I'll go after. Anyone in the space Doesn't matter whether they're charging, they're not charging, it doesn't make a difference to me. So the giving out place for free doesn't matter. 

19:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You can't. It doesn't make it any less worse. Okay, next one here. A few questions from somebody who was not comfortable giving out their email info. All right, so sorry. He's found that funny. He's like sorry, but I'm not comfortable giving out my email info. A few questions for you guys. 

19:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We see the email address, don't we? I don't even know. You know what this was. I actually know what this was. It came from like a weird. I remember this one like a. This was it came from like a weird. I remember this one like a temporary email dot, whatever. It was like a fake thing at temp email dot, whatever. Like he didn't send it from his app. He created a one-time use only email to send in a question. Yeah, hey, listen, we respect that. Sure, sure to each their own. 

19:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I, I appreciate that and no, no worries, you can keep your email info, but also your email could just be, like you know, aj12768 at gmailcom. 

19:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Some people want their anonymity to each their own. That's fine, all right. We're not doing anything with your email addresses. You can email us anytime. Circles off at thehammerbet. We're not doing anything off at the hammerbet. 

20:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We're not doing anything, so it's okay. Uh, okay, number one. When working with betting partners, is it common to ask them to take your account and not bet into it anymore? 

20:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
okay. So, like the account takeover stuff, we're talking with 50 kelly um, so I can just speak from my own personal experience. But if I'm going to work with a betting partner, the preference on. So if someone's going to come to me and says, rob, I'm going to give you an account, I have five accounts to give you my preference is that they just give the accounts over to me and I can bet into them, there's nothing worse, in my opinion, than you're doing like Monday figures. There's like they're betting into their account with their own parlays as well. You got to sort through all that stuff, so it is not uncommon In fact it's. It's way more common for someone who wants to just take over the account in total and asks you to refrain from betting into it? 

20:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Absolutely? That's his first question. Second question and this one is very good question I'm only able to put money into three or four sports books. How do you recommend I divide my bankroll? It's actually much harder than it seems. 

21:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So we might disagree, but here's what I would do For everyone it's going to be different, right, I would tell some people to bet at Pinnacle. I would tell some people to bet at other books. Pinnacle, generally speaking and again I'm not just, but, like everyone, should have that as one of their books because it has low margins on bets. But here's what I would do Plug another product that I'm a part of, but I'd create a bet stamp account and I would regularly look over the course of every single day, through all the markets that I'm betting on Am I betting player props, am I betting sides and totals? 

21:43
And you'll notice that there's going to be some books that consistently have the best prices in the markets that you like to bet. For example, if you bet anytime touchdown scores in the NFL, some books are never, ever, ever going to have a good price on that, whereas some books are often going to have the best price in market. If you're betting full game NBA sides, you're often gonna see well, pinnacle has the best price on the bet that I would have made. So I would basically just like track this stuff for a couple of weeks and say these are the three or four sports books that I need to bet, to put money into, because these are the ones where I'm going to be betting more regularly, because they have the best price on the stuff that I want to bet. That would be my personal approach into how I would divide my bankroll. 

22:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, and then also, just in general, some books have the exact same odd set so you obviously don't want to double up on those ones If they're using the same provider. Those you should be able to calculate pretty quick by again looking at bet sam bod screen and just seeing which ones have the discrepancy. So typically you want as many as possible. And this is again if you're betting like you're originating and betting, hey, I'm going to be betting like nfl and like, how do I divide it up? Then yeah, try to get a good variety. 

23:00
If you're only betting props, for example, then it's going to be different than if you're only betting side. So you also got to really just determine what am I betting, what am I focusing on, what's my niche? If you only have the amount of money to open up three or four or like that's maybe not all your money, that's your money that is putting toward you're putting towards sports betting, then you should probably focus on one specific niche, one specific niche market, and then you know, tackle that head on and then once you grow that and beat that, then you can expand outwards. So good question, appreciate that Again from anonymous. 

23:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, at tempmailwhatever. 

23:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Hey guys, on the pizza buffet, rob mentioned that sometimes he doesn't like to do standard Wong teasers at post. Can you have him elaborate a little bit more? I certainly can have him elaborate more, rob. Would you be interested in that? 

23:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, so there's a couple things right. I think not all games are created equally. So for those that don't know what a Wong teaser is, you can look it up. But typically speaking, you want to try to tease NFL games through two key numbers three and seven. So oftentimes you'll take a favorite that's in the range of like seven and a half to eight and a half and you'll tease them down to two and a half or one and a half so that you're crossing through numbers that are very important in the NFL. Vice versa, you can take the underdog and tease them up. 

24:18
Now, when I say not all games are created equal, okay, let's say you got a situation where it's Patrick Mahomes versus Josh Allen. Those are like known commodities. They've been in the league for a long time. So what people will do? You wait till right before close, right before the game's going to go off, and you're going to tease whoever. Maybe the underdog in that game is up from two and a half to eight and a half. There's obviously variance in every single NFL game, but those are known commodities. Let's say as an example um, let me just throw out a random one here. Let's say we have a Green Bay Arizona game and the quarterback for Green Bay is not Jordan Love, because he's injured. It's their backup quarterback, sean Clifford. And let's say, for Arizona, it's not Kyler Murray, it's their backup quarterback, clayton Toon. That game might have a spread of two and a half and close at two and a half, but in my opinion the closing price on that, while still valuable, is not as accurate in the long run as the closing price on a Josh Allen. 

25:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's still the most accurate we have at the time, but it's less accurate than a more known game with no injuries. 

25:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So with the Wong teasers you kind of want to pick spots where the variance is reduced, lower totals in a game, known commodities In that type of game. I'm not going to just blindly take the underdog and tease them up to eight and a half because they fit all the requirements of a Wong teaser. I to eight and a half because they fit all the requirements of a Wong teaser. I think in a lot of those games people just don't know the market's trying to figure out what the prices are on these quarterbacks that we've never seen in the NFL before but we have no idea. Like look at Jake Browning when he first came into the league, like how he looks now versus he did in his first start. All this stuff matters. That's point number one. The second thing that I like to say a lot is the whole notion of the Wong teaser is using the market's efficiency to your benefit. But if you're a person who tracks all of your bets and you're consistently beating lines in the NFL, if you wait till the absolute last minute sometimes to satisfy the Wong teaser requirements, you often cost yourself points. You often cost yourself points. So you don't have to do that. 

26:42
Here's an example. Right, there might be a seven-point favorite in the NFL. You feel very confidently that this number is going to rise. You would consider betting the minus seven and, based off of your historical track record in the NFL, you think you're going to get closing line value on that minus seven. If that's going to be the case and you think that this minus seven is going to close minus eight and a half, you can tease them at that point, right there. 

27:07
What some people will do is wait till it gets to eight and a half and they're like oh now it's a long teaser, I can tease it down to two and a half. Well, guess what If you just tease it earlier? You teased it down to minus one. Yes, it didn't satisfy the, but you're getting more value when all is said and done at the end. I don't recommend this for every single person, but if you have a historical track record of getting good CLV in the NFL, I don't hate that. There will be times where it works against you, but those are the things that aren't talked about with the teaser strategy that I think are important for people to understand. I'm not a big believer in just blindly following you know this set of rules. I think you have to be adaptable when it comes to sports betting. 

27:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, um. Are there any books, podcasts or websites you recommend for intermediate bettors looking to enhance their knowledge? 

28:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't read books, okay. 

28:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'll tell you right now Listen, you want podcasts, listen to every single episode of the show. I, it's a, it's a, it's a shameless plug. It's our show. Of course we're going to say that, but truly it is. You can ask around, you know, even just producers, zach, like you came on midway through the show to that zach yeah, I got a ton. 

28:21 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I get a ton of value being on here every day too, picking up on things, listening to get different guests that we have on and getting to hear all these different perspectives from different people. That maybe it's not going to make me a pro better or be able to do it like rob does, or to even what johnny's doing on his daily basis, but like much better better than what I was before. I would say that that a hundred percent. 

28:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Appreciate that. So for intermediates, listen, go back, listen to this podcast. We'll plug. You know our buddy Spanky has been on the podcast. He's got a really good podcast. It's a little bit different. Some of the episodes are more like old school bookmakers a podcast called Be Better, better. I highly recommend you go back and listen to that If you finished all the episodes here. 

29:03
He's got a lot that are, like I mentioned, old school bookies, bookmakers, bettors. That you know are more just story-based and are very interesting to listen to. But you may not, you know, get any actionable advice. But then there's a ton of questions that are like tremendous, tremendous, actionable advice. The Q&As are all great, so I'd highly recommend going to listen to that. In terms of books people ask me this all the time Like, like, no, there's no books. I'll say it as it is. There's a couple of books that are like supposedly big in the sports betting space, like there's no value in there. Um, there's no value there that you're not going to be able to get from this podcast or podcast or that I could explain to you in approximately five minutes. Reading is great for a lot of things creativity but when it comes to like information-based and growing industries like this, like no, you're not going to get something that was written in a book like 10 years ago and that's not going to help you out, I agree. 

29:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think with books or websites, this was part of the question as well. 

29:56
Just speaking from experience, like I will read a book or visit a website to acquire knowledge on a specific topic. 

30:04
So let's say, like I want to learn to code and I want an introduction to R or Python, I might go out and buy a book that's an intro to R or Python, or I might search it or take an online class or something like that, but there's no all-encompassing, like expert sports betting book that's out there and, candidly, we don't give 100% of our knowledge on this program either, because we bet as well and, like I'm just saying this, in truth, no one is putting 100% of their sports betting knowledge out there. If they have an edge that they're holding on to, they're probably going to still hold on to that. So I'm just being real. But it depends on what you're looking to learn and looking to enhance your knowledge. If you're an intermediate sports better, the likelihood that your knowledge is solid and your foundation is solid enough to win is there. It's now. What are the gaps that you're trying to learn about? Just seek out information on that specific topic. 

31:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, again, I can't speak like highly enough to this podcast. Obviously, that's going to be natural. Like we made the content we believe in it. What we gave out an info is what we believe is the way to do it, so that that would be the only logical answer here. Um, but one other thing I'll plug here is if you're looking for like articles, like websites for example, we do have a the hammerbet website so you can go to hammerbet or thehammerbet and essentially we've got a lot of like betting guides and primers on there they're they're more beginner than than anything you're going to find on this podcast. 

31:36
But, um, you know, I would go through and there's a lot of videos that rob made early on or has been consistently making on the circles off channel that are more like two, three minute videos you're going to get something from for sure. 

31:48
And then, if you're looking for just introductory stuff, like hey, what is the money line? How does same game parlay work, the teaser stuff like that, we've got all that on there in article form that you can read through. It's not like, listen, we're not saying this is going to be revolutionary stuff where you're going to start going making money on this, but if you're just looking to learn what all this stuff is, you can happily go back there, read those articles and, um, I'm sure you'll find out a few things that you didn't know. But that's, that's the true answer here. Like don't go waste your money on any of these books, and more more than money is even just the time to read these books. Like all they're going to tell you is like just it's a fishing market and you can line shop and stuff like that which we say here and could say that explain the whole concept of the book in like one minute. 

32:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But also, to just conclude this question, bring back to five minutes ago, to something that Johnny talked about. The betting space and the market is constantly evolving. Right, like to go pick up a book from 2010,. That might've been the best sports betting book in the space. It may not. Most of that's not gonna be applicable to 2023 or 2024. Now, excuse me, it's not that there's no value, but a lot of that's just not applicable. So it's tough. Sports betting, knowledge and education is something we're passionate about, but it really depends on your individual skill set, what you're looking to get out of sports betting, and I would just use that to try to hone in on some specific topics views with a lot of other stuff, not just sports betting, like I do feel like books are a significant outdated way of learning right now for like actual domain knowledge and things. 

33:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Obviously when you talk about you know these fiction books and like learning, creativity and storytelling, that stuff is is pretty much timeless and you can learn from I don't know shakespeare and all those other ones. You learn a lot of different stuff. So I I'm not saying book's not good for learning, but it comes to this industry and you know, yeah, it's like Rob said I'll even mention there's a book that's called Trading Bases by Joe Pita. 

33:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was like it's in my background when I shoot at home. 

33:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So Rob's got a book like listen that was a book that was I just Googled it right Like the stuff from the market in 2013,. If you want to put it like there was no regulated books here, you only bet in Vegas and offshore. Think about how much the industry has changed in the over the past. What is now 11 years since that book came out? You're not going to get anything from that book and if you do, it's probably something that's more just a tidbit. Yes, that you can probably get elsewhere in better demand, so don't don't bother going there for domain knowledge. Anyways, probably get elsewhere in better demand, so don't don't bother going there for domain knowledge, anyways. End of rant. Uh, up next, we mentioned, uh, spanky's podcast as another good resource here. 

34:31
A question that came in are you guys going to be going to bet bash in 2024, which is you know Spanky's betting event that he hosts? Um, you know a networking event. Do you think it is worth the price of admission for a casual better looking to learn new things? Ok, so I'll take this one real quick. Simply put, the cost of the admission here is quite expensive if you look at it in comparison, I believe the cost of tickets. I'm not sure what they're going to be this year, but it might be around $500, $600, $700 US. Okay, once you also factor in that you need to actually make the trip to Vegas pay for your flight, pay for your hotel, accommodation, stuff like that the trip does get up there. For the average person who might be, let's say, in a university or college fourth year student, like, is it worth it to pay two grand to go out there? All right, my answer is is are you guys going to bet bash for some 2024? Yes, I'm going rob, are you I? 

35:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I plan on going, but you know how life is, I plan on going I plan on being at every bet bash till the end of time. I'm just not going to say with 100 certainty I'll be there I believe I'll be going this year. 

35:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Um, is it worth the price of admission for the casual? Better, okay, so, so I'll leave it at this. If you can afford it and it's not going to basically put you in debt to go, then I would strongly recommend going. You're going to likely learn a lot more from being there than you will in any other facet and for that amount of money so for an all-in let's call it $1,500, $2,000, you are going to definitely be able to out earn that money from the stuff you learn there. 

36:07
However, I will also say this the value is not necessarily in the panels. It is in the network of people that you will make there, the questions you'll be able to ask certain people and the connections that you will make in terms of whether it be like a betting partnership. This guy can do this for me. This guy can do this all. This guy's got this account. This guy's got this account here. You can go here. That's the value. If you're gonna go there not talk to anybody, sit in the panel room, take notes and then leave then don't bother going. 

36:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's my, that's my honest advice yeah, I, I guess it depends on the level of casual better as well, like if you're a wreck for life type of better and you're just looking for entertainment. What are you laughing about over there? That I said wreck for life, yeah, but wreck for life as in like, are you a wreck for life? 

36:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
who's like people are gonna tell you, no, don't do this. This is how you win and you're like I don't care. 

36:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Then, yeah, don't yeah, a casual better means can mean so many different things casual. 

36:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
In my opinion, casual better could even be like okay, listen, I bet 50 bucks on all these games I'm losing right now. Or like, yeah, I had a bad year, but I'm up and down like I'm looking to learn how to win. If that's you, then go. If that's not you and you're like, and buddies tell you, oh, don't do this, don't do this, and you're not actually caring to learn how to win, and you're just like, oh no, I bet for fun, whatever, leave me alone. Then, yeah, just stay. 

37:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's been three events of this. Now there's enough information out there that I think people can draw their own conclusions as to whether or not you're going to find value in the event, based off of the itinerary that comes out. But generally speaking, you'll have access to other solid bettors, ability to network, make some connections, like some people that go there are not even bettors, I'll be honest, like last year, they're just there. Like I have, you know, 50 sports betting accounts. I'm looking to partner with some people that might be great value for you to go there. Some people might want to see panels, some people might just want whatever, but there's enough out there that I don't want to make a recommendation. 

37:52
I'll tell you this I love going to Bet Bash. Personally, I'm a big fan of it. I see friends that I typically don't see over the course of the year. Maybe that over the course of the year, maybe that I would have deleted their their phone contact already. Uh, johnny, but I I really enjoy that, um, and that makes it worthwhile for me, even if I get nothing in terms of accounts or partnerships or whatever. Just the trip and the experience is enough for me to make it out every single year. But uh, that that's it really like I'm not to each their own, I I think it's a pretty cool event there. 

38:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There you go. Okay, what is Johnny's Twitter handle? Never been able to find it in the shows or description. That is because I don't have social media. So is that going to change in 2024? Definitely not. I don't have social media. I don't really actually use social media too much. You know, listen, I got to stay in the community just for the app, for the show and things like that. I definitely read, but uh, I'm not a content poster myself outside of the content we produce on this channel. I don't actually tweet out stuff I don't have, uh carry like an instagram or a facebook or anything like that, and I like it better that way it's good you'll never be able to accidentally tweet the wrong play-by-play analyst for an NFL. 

39:03
Exactly, Exactly. Okay, got a few more questions here and these are all, like again, personal questions towards Rob and I, so we're going to try to answer these as best we can. Some of them are, you know, this one's got to move to the end. You know what? Actually, we're tackling it now, Rob. We're tackling this right now. Hypothetically speaking, if Joey Knish were to steal Rob's tortoise tortellini, how much would Rob pay for his ransom? 

39:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think this is like the third time this question has come through, but the first time we've ever talked about it on the show. 

39:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We always ignore it, but this time I put it in. 

39:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
First of all, it's generally a bad practice to publicly state how much you would pay for the ransom of something that's like a horrible practice. 

39:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You can't be publicly saying that. 

39:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, uh, but honestly, how much would I pay versus how much would my wife let me pay are very different things, because I never wanted tortellini in the first place. I showed up in my condo one day. I saw some tortoise apparatus that was there. I'm like what the hell is this? She's like oh, this is our pet tortoise. This is going on 12 years ago now. Now I have Tortellini in my office, where I bet, where I work, where I do live watch alongs. He's part of my daily routine and my life. It would make me sad to see him go, but my wife, on the other hand, would be like she's waiting for the day where I say it's time to send this guy back to the reptile store or whatever. So what I would pay and what she would pay is very different, but honestly, not a lot Not very much Quarter unit. 

40:41 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Also, what the hell is going on with Kanish? Why is Kanish keeps coming up? He's the one who's going to steal this Kanish is not going to steal anything, guy doesn't leave his house. 

40:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Guy can't even get in the country. 

40:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

40:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right Question specifically for Rob Pozzola, so this one would be for you then, rob, you say that you consulted for sports books. We got to change that sign. By the way it says people called this out on Twitter last time. It's supposed to say show since Pazola said he consulted. 

41:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't say I worked at a sport. He never says he worked. I actually never worked for a sports book. I have to make that abundantly clear. 

41:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's consulted for a number of sports book brands. That's how he typically phrases it. So, rob, you say you've consulted for sports books, right, zach? Has he said that before? I think he might have, okay, he might have Before. So you said you've done that before and that gives you some sort of insight into how things work. Can you elaborate more as to what your role was and why simply working for a sports book would give you any insight? Also, how does this make you any better than the people that you tend to go after in the space? 

41:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
oh, spicy this is a spicy question. Uh, okay, I'll say as much as I can. Um, technically, I could say whatever I want. I don't have any ndas or whatever I'll say as much as I can. 

41:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Technically, I could say whatever I want. No, no here's. 

42:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm prefacing this by saying that I also, like the sports book industry. Lots of people want to stay anonymous and I totally don't want to like disrespect them in any way or step on toes. Um, when I consulted for sportsbooks, I did so in a commercial capacity, um, meaning that I would take a look at numbers. Essentially How's the sportsbook making money, how often are players coming in, what are they playing? You know cycle, player cycles, life cycles and so on and so forth. But ultimately I led teams of people that were responsible for bringing in as much profit as possible. So the latter part of this question does apply. Now, can you elaborate as to what your role was and why simply working for a sportsbook gives you insights when you work in a commercial capacity for a sportsbook, I would call it almost like a central hub for a sportsbook because, as being part of a commercial team, you need to interact with every think of it like a tire and you have, you know your central, and then you have, you have all these spokes, and commercial would be central, and all these spokes are like marketing, trading, fraud, customer service, and there's more and more that go on from there. So you operations, whatever. So you're interacting with all these people regularly to see what their processes are, how things are going on, and basically you have an all-encompassing view of how a sportsbook business runs. So I've been to different countries to meet with trading teams. I've been with two different countries to meet with trading teams. I've been to different countries to meet with VIP hosts. I've been to different countries to meet with whatever and I did this for several years gained some extensive knowledge, and this was for a very, let's say, large property of worldwide sports books. How does this make you any better than the people that you tend to go after in this space? Okay, fair enough, great question. 

44:06
One of the big things for me when I was consulting in a commercial capacity for sportsbooks was an emphasis on the player experience. I thought that this was extremely important. Funny story, but someone who I worked closely with was a big Donald Trump supporter MAGA. At the time, I was responsible for a program for a bunch of sportsbook properties that I called MIGA M-I-G-A, which was make it great again. So instead of make America great, make it great again, and the whole idea was making the sportsbook product great for players. 

44:44
How do you do stuff like that? Well, you just don't do shady things, so instilling all sorts of what I would call contractual agreements with players that I would uphold the team to. So, for example, if Johnny wanted to make a withdrawal, we would have a guarantee in place that he would get his money within X amount of time, and we would uphold that guarantee 100%, because that's very important to the player experience. If someone made a bet that wasn't a past posted bet, then we would honor that bet every single time, 100% of the time. So doing things like that to enhance the player experience, that was how I tried and I think fairly successfully to help sportsbooks grow in the space. 

45:36
Now there's a little bit of hypocrisy. Certainly, having worked on that side of the counter, your goal, generally speaking, is to make your company money, but there's ways to do that without going overboard. Our VIP hosting was extremely different than VIP hosting in the space right now, with mandatory cutoffs on players at certain amounts, so on and so forth. So what makes me any better is that I tried to do this in a way that appeased both sides. If I'm just being completely honest, it was a program that was in place for several years. The MIGA program got a sportsbook to a level that I thought was very solid in the way that players were treated and how I would want to be treated if I was in that role. 

46:25
But that's the majority of my sportsbook experience. I can tell you, not every sportsbook operates in the exact same way. There's lots of things that are very different, but, generally speaking, I have a very, very good idea of how things work and, honestly, my knowledge of how things work in the background makes me as qualified as anyone to take shots at other people in the space based off of the stuff that I see. If you want to call me a hypocrite, no problem. I can totally deal with that Because at the end of the day, like I said, you're working commercial for sportsbooks. Your job is to bring in money, but there are ways of doing that without, let's say, crossing the line. 

47:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay, fair enough, this guy's qualified, let's just leave it at that. This guy's qualified, he's controlled throughout sports books. 

47:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you don't think so, I'll remind you every show. But no, he actually is. 

47:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You don't need to be the owner of a sports book to understand he knows better than people who haven't worked behind the counter for the sports book. Maybe he doesn't know as much from that angle as some people who have run that for 25 years, but if you combine that plus knowledge is a better like there's. There's definitely some value in there. 

47:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So no need to question my whole thing in like building a sports book is that if you treat players right, if you make it the best experience possible for someone, they will bet at your sports book and ultimately that's the goal when you're running, when you're, when you want to build a sports book, you want as many people to bet there as possible, but you give them the experience that they are not going to get elsewhere. Great customer service Like how often have you bet at a sports book in your life where a customer service comes on and they don't speak English? Like no offense, you can outsource your sports book for cheaper costs, but I don't ever want to play there and deal with that customer service again. So I basically went down, you know, vertical by vertical, and said no, this is not acceptable for a player, this is not acceptable. 

48:18
This and my gut and I think it was, you know, brought to fruition over time was you give people a great experience and they will bet there and at the end of the day, you don't do anything to mislead. You know you do. You do things of that nature and and that was important to me. So because of that experience, I, I have a you know, I, I know a lot about the space. 

48:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Let's put it that way. I couldn't agree more. Uh okay, hey, um, rob and Johnny, big fan of what you do as a sports enthusiast, how do you balance your passion for a particular team with the need for objective analysis in betting? I throw. I follow a few teams religiously in the nfl and nba, but I find I have almost no success betting on their games yeah, a lot of people would find that because you, you develop biases when you bet on, when you watch games especially. 

49:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, I don't think it's a necessity to watch games in order to win at betting. I do think that if you are the right type of person, it can help you. But this is a really tough question to answer, because it's just like you do or you don't Like. How do you balance your passion for a team with the need for objective analysis? I don't know, I just figure out a way to do it. I don't know you just I just figure out a way to do it. 

49:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I, I I don't know how to answer it beyond that. You know what I'm getting at. Yeah, I mean listen, you could watch, like part of the fun is watching the games. But you can't make the mistake of thinking that you know about the team unless you're actually looking into specific things that are not factored into the betting markets. But you know, everybody knows who the third receiver is on the team. Everybody knows that this guy's injured and this guy's going to come up Like that's not info. That maybe back in the day where you had to read newspapers, but nowadays, like everybody knows that, you're not getting anything from that. 

50:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You still have to be able to think probabilistically. That's the problem. When you watch a team right Like you might watch your. 

50:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know I'm wearing a leaf sweater today, first show of 2024, and I'm bringing it in the new year with the leaf. 

50:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
How much money have you lost betting on the leafs in your life? Honestly, probably won money on leafs games if I, if I put it all together, but but I I'm not putting my how much money have you lost on leafs? 

50:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
win the cub futures. Yes, no. 

50:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Roughly anywhere between $1,000 and $5,000 per year for the last I don't know 10 years. Let's take the midpoint probably like $25,000. 

50:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean that's the answer. Zach thought he was going to say all the time. Then he said per year. 

50:50 - Zack Phillips (Other)
That's the way you led into that one. 

50:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Guys, no one is immune to this is sports betting. What's going to inevitably happen every single hockey season is I'm going to go in. I'm going to bet the Leafs to win the Cup because I'm going to do that. I'm going to find the best price on the Leafs to do that. Most of the time, these are honestly edges. I strongly believe that. I'm saying roughly $25K, maybe another three this year when they don't win the Cup again. 

51:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What about? 

51:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
to win the conference. I don't get into that stuff. Cup or nothing, cup or die. 

51:32
It's a tough question to answer. Um he. You see, like the way that the question is worded is that he knows it's a he or she knows it's a problem. Like I follow these teams religiously, I can't win. How do I not make these bets anymore? Well, you know, you already know that it's a problem, so you just stop. I can't tell you how. Just you know if it's not working and you know you're developing some sort of biases and it's not working in your favor, just stop betting your favorite teams. 

51:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay, Rob, so I'm not going to comment on these next two. These ones will be just for you here. What is your outlook on Bitcoin after the most recent run? 

52:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not giving financial advice on Bitcoin. After the most recent run, I'm not giving financial advice on Bitcoin. I'm not quite to the level of Barry Horse where, like I'm having 90% of my net worth, 90? 100%. 

52:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You guys said 100.0. 

52:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, in Bitcoin. I mainly use Bitcoin as a vehicle to transact with other bettors. I think it's extremely helpful for that In terms of long-term outlook. Like I use Bitcoin every single week, it's very viable, but I'm not predicting where the price is gonna go. I'm not trading crypto anymore or anything like that. It's just like it's there. I don't have a good way of answering that All right. 

52:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And then NFTs have you purchased any NFTs recently? 

52:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I purchased NFTs three weeks ago, so I've been in like a we. I had some crypto punks which I sold, uh, last year. Um, I started, I sold a lot of my NFTs but still hold a lot. I have like some UFC strike cards, nba top shots, um, what I did recently was like an audit of everything that I still own to see what I still want to keep and what I want to get rid of. 

53:15
Obviously, the NFT market cap right now is very, very small relative to what it was two years ago or a year ago. But what I did is I took a lot of my NBA top shots, like commons and rares and whatever, and I had not logged into top shots for like months. But I noticed that there's like offers now as well, so you can just make offers for other people's cards, and I had this backlog of like tons of offers. I went through them. It took me maybe half a day, sold a bunch of cards and then I said, yeah, I'm just just gonna turn around, I'm gonna put this into like a couple young player legendary cards. Who who knows, maybe these might be worth something at some point or another. But I bought a legendary, uh, jaron jackson dunk and a legendary jaron jackson jr. Uh, darius garland, some layups, the dunk, something like that. But I was just. I'm just like, yeah, I do think there will be a revival at some point I, yeah, I mean, there could, there could easily be. 

54:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Uh, they got so big to the point where, I mean, a collapse happened. It's just a market cycle and we'll see what happens in the future. Again, not financial advice buy at your own risk with, uh, with a lot of these risky things. And even with financial advice, buy at your own risk with a lot of these risky things. And even with betting, you know, bet at your own risk. There's no guarantee you're going to win. If you follow our advice, you know there's a significantly higher chance that you are going to be able to sustain long-term profits. But we mention bankroll management all the time. Like, don't bet more than you can afford to lose. Don't go with all this garbage. Like, oh yeah, I'm gonna be, you know, making a million dollars this year. Like, listen, to make a million dollars this year, you have to sustainably make a million dollars this year. 

54:59
You're gonna have to basically calculate oh, I have a 2.5 percent edge, which means I need to get down 250 million dollars to make whatever yeah you know you have to get down 100 million dollars to make 2.5, like you just make, make sure you're calculating that and then being realistic which is why I even mentioned the volume being such a big factor like if you're betting like a hundred dollars times 10 plays a week, you're betting so low of an amount of money that at the end of the season, like it's not really sustainable to expect that you're going to be up or down more than, like you know, let's say, a grand, a grand or so, right. So if you're down a grand or you're up a grand, like that's what you're going to be up, and if you, if you're up five grand that season, that wasn't sustainable. Like you hit a bad, you hit a good variance run. And if you're're down five grand, same kind of deal. 

55:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, for me, like everything is risk reward in terms of I don't view NFTs as something that like, oh, I want to go one day and just like, look at my collection of 300 cards that I have. That's not what I ever did this for. It was always for a profit in one way or another and I thought that there was like a decent opportunity to make money in this space, which there was. It just was very limited at the time. However, like now, if you look at risk reward right and again, you do your own research. You do you. 

56:21
I'm not taking the blame for anything that goes wrong here, but you can buy legendary NBA top shots now on, like good young players, for 200, 250 bucks, 300 bucks, 500 bucks, in some cases a thousand. Now a thousand might mean different amounts of you know to some people versus others, but to me that's like okay, what's the downside of buying a $300 Jaron Jackson Jr legendary card? The downside is I lose $300. What's the upside? Top Shots takes off again in four or five years, jaron Jackson Jr is an all-star and the card is worth now like 10,000 or something right, like that's kind of the way I'm thinking. So it's all risk reward for me, but certainly, yeah, I'm not like just aping into a bunch of NFTs at the moment. I'm not just aping into a bunch of NFTs at the moment, I'm just kind of trying to pick my spots. 

57:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, I think that might be it for today. We have two more questions. I think we might save these for another time, but we're going to answer. If you can sit down and have dinner with any one person in the betting space dead or alive, who would it be? And then somebody asked it'd be cool if you guys could answer the final question that you asked to the guests about five years. So that one we're going to hold off and answer that in another episode that we have planned, but I guess we can answer this one. I don't really have anyone off the top of my head, rob, if you could sit down with someone in the betting space, I do. 

57:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Maybe not a non-traditional answer here, but for me it would be Phil Ivey Philly. 

57:50 - Zack Phillips (Other)
So I would want somebody that why don't you? 

57:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
just get a sit down with them. I could. I could, right like I. I'm just saying that from like. Here's the thing I having dinner with like billy walters doesn't excite me, no, no, nor does it me right, and this is no disrespect. Like billy walters, arguably the greatest gambler of all time. You ask most people. That's what they would say. It's not it. It's just like. I'm not gonna. I'm not having dinner with this person to necessarily learn anything from them, especially older bettors. Again, it's not disrespectful to what they did, but they made a lot of money doing like a specific style of betting that's not conducive to making money nowadays. 

58:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, if they wrote a book, I probably wouldn't bother reading I, just I, I did. 

58:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I read the billy walters book like I'm a whatever it was, like it was kind of slow, that's just my opinion. Like to shoot me for my opinion, but I like I'm not gaining valuable insights from that. I would like someone that I could shoot the shit with that shares a lot of the same interests as me. So ivy's betting on sports, he's a poker player and he loves to golf and, like to me, I'd love to have dinner with a guy that that overlaps with stuff like that that's. 

58:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean that that's it for me in in the betting space. If I had to pick right now, it would probably be I'm not going to name the name, but it would be someone who I consider to be like the the best current active, better, like who's winning the most right now. So that would be who I would choose in the betting space. But if you could choose like, well, you can say he's Albert, it's fine. Yeah, if you could choose. If you could choose like people associated with betting, like I don't know, it'd be cool to grab a dinner with, like a Michael Jordan or something here's some betting stuff. 

59:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you're going to go with that, that would be cool. Yeah, it's very open-ended, like there's there's tons of people I would. I would consider for this Um yeah, jordan's a great one. 

59:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's a bit like but he's not really I guess he's not known as a better dude. 

59:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If I could play a game where I could shoot quarters against the wall against Jordan for like a thousand bucks, I'd do that in an instant. Me too, I I love that level of degeneracy. Now, granted, michael Jordan has a lot of money, can afford to play a thousand dollars on quarters. I, you know I don't want to say that, but that would be fun. But the one thing that I heard too. 

01:00:00 - Zack Phillips (Other)
That was cool about Jordan is he would play guys for like 20 bucks on a golf course, because he didn't care. 

01:00:06
And the one thing that drove him was that he knew if, if someone on the other side was like, I'll only put up 20 bucks, they were going to try harder because they didn't want to lose that 20 bucks. Yeah, like, if it was someone who's like, oh, I'll only do it for 20 bucks, he'd be like, let's fucking go, because now this guy's going to battle him because they're like I don't want to lose my 20 bucks. So like it would drive him. So I thought that was pretty cool. 

01:00:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I actually really liked that question. It's really hard to narrow it down to one, but there's so many people like and there's so many people I don't know. You know Tony Blue, I'd love to sit down with Tony. 

01:00:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Blue yeah for sure. Oh, by the way, I think, like if you go with celebs who gamble and like just that, like another good one would have to be Tiger. He's not a Phil would be one, but Tiger. I feel like he's not a true gambler, but he's got that in him He'll gamble, even if you look at when he was doing the match with Phil there and then Phil's like this and Ty's like, yeah, double it. Dana White. 

01:01:06 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Dana White would be, a sick one. 

01:01:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've told you guys about Dana White's story before. 

01:01:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, dana White would probably be my number one actually. 

01:01:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
First time I ever met Dana White was in like 2008, 2009. I was working at the score and we had him in studio and he came in with like a stack like this large of pictures of himself and just walked around the building. It's like what's your name? I'm like Robby. He'd be like you know two robs and just sign dana white and just give me a picture he walked around the entire building handing out signed pictures of himself. 

01:01:38
That's a matthew berry style move, absolutely hilarious. Um comedians who gamble, uh. So like, rest in peace, norm mcdonald. But I fucking love norm mcdonald. I thought he was like the most hilarious person. The punchlines to his jokes and how he got there sitting down with him I think would be amazing. Ray Romano, from what I understand, is like a really big celebrity. Better as well. I don't know there's so many, but it's cool. Ivy is. I'm gonna stick with Ivy just because I've always liked Ivy as a poker player and a lot of his other interests overlap with with mine yeah, yeah, yeah. 

01:02:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, if I gotta go celebs, then give me, give me dana white number one overall. That's a good, that's a good choice, zach floyd, mayweather man floyd, I, I don't know. 

01:02:23
I feel like you could also learn a lot of shit from dana white as well, and in terms of like, just like business managing team Floyd, you learn different stuff, yeah, but uh, no, dana would be a crazy uh guy to gamble with. But I know he also plays. He doesn't like sports betting. He talked about how he hates sports betting. It was his casino, yeah, but the reasons why he hates sports betting are, like completely not justified. He's like you go bet on sports like the team will be up, and then he's like you go bet on sports like the team will be up, and then the other team just comes back like what the fuck is that? And it's like, okay, yeah, that's that happens, right. He just like I think dana white likes just from hearing him talk about gambling like he wants like the thing to just be very quick yeah what he also said, which kind of little suboptimal he's. 

01:03:04
Like I want to like be in control. Like I want to, I want to be in control of the bet, like I call hit, stand, whatever, but, like in sports betting, you you could actually get an edge and blackjack I mean, you could get edge for different things, but, um, you calling what it is is not the edge. The funny part is, though, if you're gambling like at that level where you're doing business with people like have making it a thing, then like the overall experience of the gambling, considering like you're doing business with people making it a thing, then the overall experience of the gambling, considering you're now a VIP there, you're getting treated like gold, you're hosting I'm saying at his level, where he's literally hosting, putting up fighters at these hotels. He's living in Vegas, he's building relationships with these people, taking whiny and diny people, gambling with them, striking business deals the overall thing, even if you're losing money, gambling like you're plus CV now on the operation. That's the dream. That is the dream. 

01:03:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's the dream Before we wrap up here. When we had 50, kelly the cat one, two, three, four, five, four on a few weeks back, we were joking about like the Floyd Mayweather thing and like having him as a beard how amazing would that be. Someone replied on that, which I don't know if there's any truth to this or not, but apparently haralabob at some point or another actually said that they were working with floyd and he did two weeks ago. 

01:04:21 - Zack Phillips (Other)
This was a. 

01:04:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It went viral like two weeks ago and basically floyd just started saying like no, no, I don't like these bets. Of course, yeah, it's like uh, like yeah, no, no, I don't want, I don't want to. 

01:04:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't want. The only bets he would like is if you told him bet on himself then if like yeah, of course that guy. 

01:04:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, that guy was but he was, it would have been a license for him to print money, basically but you know, what's crazy about floyd is nobody knows his financial situation. 

01:04:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Like people have said, oh, this guy's going broke, so he's going broke. But how do people know that? Like, how can you? 

01:04:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
think people are saying that because of the fights that he's taken towards the end of his career. 

01:04:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But why would he not take those fights. He's getting paid so much money to literally beat up guys that don't even box. He's beating up like listen, mcgregor, you. The mcgregor fight was like an all-time massive payday and like just a spectacle of an event like he would probably take and it was. It was actually a pro fight. That was for his record, yeah. So like that one, I'm gonna throw out and not say that that was like for money right, even though it probably was for money, but it was still a pro fight. These next ones, when he's facing like logan paul, like exhibition fights versus like these random youtubers and stuff which he's been now entertaining, like he's making so much money and has zero risk of losing, so like what's the? 

01:05:32
I agree next to zero risk of losing versus somebody. 

01:05:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's just like whether I guess maybe he's not even training that hard for these either. I have no idea what his camps I, I just figure at some point they're also exhibitions. 

01:05:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Even if he loses, it doesn't even take off his record. 

01:05:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It doesn't but it I know it doesn't take off his official record, but it takes, takes off of his legacy. 

01:05:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But he actually, like some of the guys he's facing, he actually can't lose. 

01:05:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, they're dusters man Like he's literally do whatever he wants to do in those fights, Like if he's facing me. 

01:06:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's not like oh, what if I knock him out? Bro, how would I possibly knock him out? 

01:06:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's never going to happen, I know. 

01:06:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So what are we arguing here? 

01:06:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know Just like complete off-topic. I haven't seen you in a bit while we recorded last week, but I haven't really got to talk to you about the clip that I saw. It was weeks ago, I think. Cristiano Ronaldo was at a UFC event and Conor McGregor was there as well, and Ronaldo's just sitting there and McGregor's just yapping in his ear, going off about something. 

01:06:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, you probably didn't understand him and Ronaldo's just trying not to laugh. 

01:06:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's just sitting there like all straight faces. I could just like picture him in his head, like what the fuck is this guy talking, yammering on about? 

01:06:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, they mean that with, like people talking about their parlays to their girlfriend and shit. 

01:06:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one. But if you could have dinner with anyone in the sports betting space, let us know. Drop it down in the comments below. I'm sure there's all sorts of people that I missed. Here's the Ronaldo and McGregor thing. 

01:06:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Like he's just like stone face, Like yeah, Okay you know, is he talking to Ronaldo or he's talking to the guy beside him? 

01:07:04 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I don't know, but that's it beside him that is out of context. 

01:07:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Man, we got to fact check these. Look he's. He's not talking to ronaldo isn't. No, he's not he's trying to get that saudi deal. 

01:07:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's very animated about something I could tell you right now it's pretty sick. Uh, green jacket, yeah, cristiano's laughing it up, laughing up a story. 

01:07:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know there was a clip where where mcgregor met ronaldo and then he told them, uh, and then he said, hey, you were. M McGregor told Ronaldo like hey, you were ahead of me on the Forbes richest athlete list last year and. Ronaldo said oh was I. And then McGregor said I'm coming for you this year. And then he beat him and he passed him and he was number one. 

01:07:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think Ronaldo was two or three yeah, well, ronaldo's making that Saudi money now as well no, mcgregor's, mcgregor's making infinite money, no, no these guys? These guys both make infinite money. 

01:07:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, but McGregor's actually on a infinite money train Cause he actually wanted to build businesses as well and get involved with different things. Um, and I think he did it at the level where he partnered with the right people, as opposed to people who partner like right away, when they're just like, they're small, they start to get a little bit of fame. They're like, oh, let me do this project here. It doesn't work out. Mcgregor he partnered after he was already like world champ. He launches the whiskey after he's already like on top of the world. He's like partnering with a reputable brand, like they're. They pretty much are. I don't know if they've done it already, but they're. They're like on pack, on track to pass, like the number one whiskey brand in Ireland, and then they go here and they're outselling Jamison Whiskey at the LCBO and stuff. You're like, oh, okay, so they actually they're making bank off that and I think even sold the stake in it now and started a beer one. So this guy, these guys are cooking, they're raking. 

01:08:44
They're raking. 

01:08:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Anyways, for our guy Nickelbag at DJohnsonSwag, we have a guest for you on next week, so you might want to stay tuned for that. I don't know if it's going to be in the same stratosphere as whatever you were hoping for, but we do have a guest book for next week which I would say is a unique betting guest in the space that we don't see a lot, so stay tuned for that. Next week You're on Circles Off. We didn't do any numbers today. You know that for 35 holy shit, we actually forgot. 

01:09:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, you know what I said. 

01:09:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Where it's 35, the goose gustavo gustav. 

01:09:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
35 is a big time, uh, football, no, it's big time hockey goalies oh, of course you know who is 35 you know who is 35, he was, uh went viral last week. The old uh carolina panthers, uh fullback mike tolbert oh yeah, he was. He was smashing the drum, he broke the fucking drum that guy's must be crazy strong he smashed it. 

01:09:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I also will always, never forget that. Uh, the big hurt. Frank thomas frank thomas was 35 from that uh, when he came to toronto and everyone got really excited and that was just uh, that just didn just didn't work out. 

01:09:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Did he not work out in Toronto? No, that was back in the day when I was just starting to be a Jays fan. 

01:09:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Mike Richter, pecorine Tom Barrasso, js Jaguar, oh, js Jaguar, jean-sebastian, but yeah, Nikolai Habibulin, the Bulin Wall, one of my favorite nicknames ever. Very, very solid. Kevin Durant as well. There's tons. 

01:10:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And we're going to go with a Yankee here. I believe he was 35. Hideki Matsui Hideki. 

01:10:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Matsui. Also another 35 Yankee Mike Mussina. Oh, Mike Mussina. I think Mike Mussina started with the Orioles. I used to have him in fantasy. That's the only reason I remember that. 

01:10:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
but all right, that's it for episode 135 of the circles off podcast here on the network. Like and subscribe. We'll see y'all next week, peace.