00:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Good to be here and I'm already getting a lot of early. This could be the best Circles Off episode that's ever been done. 

00:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Welcome to Circles Off, episode number 142 right here, part of the Hammer Betting Network and presented by Pinnacle Sportsbook. I'm Rob Pizzola, johnny from BetStamp off. This week we set up the dummy in his chair again in his honor. Makes me feel a little bit more comfortable in studio knowing that fake johnny is beside me. Uh, I'm back from vacation. 

00:31 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I'm gonna be honest, zach, it's depressing being back from vacation yeah, the text that we were getting about like having drinks out on the beach in the warm weather and we had a snowstorm here. We had the coldest days that we've had so far of the winter here in toronto dark rain. I had fire alarms in my building. I I'm usually envious of situations like that. I was just mad at you uh, you know what? 

00:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it's nice to get away, nice to dodge the cold weather, uh. But back to reality as it is right now, episode 42 there's somebody we're gonna have a tweets that trigger us in today's episode. It's making a resurgence. While I was away I actually avoided checking my phone as much as possible when I was out by the pool and on the beach. Didn't really have it on me a lot of the times. But I got back, went through a bunch of dms. There's lots of requests to bring back tweets that trigger us and because of the guests that we have on today, it's a perfect time to bring it back. So we'll do that later. But there's one person that likes to complain a lot about the athlete number segments. I'll get to that a little bit later on. It's not going away, not yet at least. Are you fucking kidding me? In the words of GRP, like what's your problem? Paraphrased 42, obviously Jackie Robinson immediately comes to mind. Also Mariana Rivera. I'd love to play Enter Sandman on the show, but we would not be able to monetize anymore. 

01:59
Another depressing thing I grew up a huge Metallica fan. They had like the whole thing with Napster like don't steal music and whatever. It kind of sucks that that had to happen. Like my favorite band was the face of that. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Like I love Metallica and their music but and I get it they want it to be compensated. But yeah, that was. That was tough. 

02:21 - Zack Phillips (Other)
You know any 42s? Uh, well, tyler Bozak, but like that's a Leafs. That was tough. You know any 42s? Well, tyler Bozak, but like that's a Leafs specific one outside of that. I mean, you said the other ones. I was going to say, though quickly, the enter Sandman. Have you seen that? I think it's Virginia Tech football. They do the entrance and then the whole stadium is jumping up and down. One of the coolest entrances in all of sports, I think. 

02:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
College sports, especially college football games Yep, all of sports, I think. College sports, especially college football games Yep, there's not really any comparison. No, I've been to about a handful in my life and they just kind of blow every other live sporting event out of the water. Yeah, it's just not even close, no, especially when you get the rivalries between fans as well. 

03:00 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah Well, I would say that US college sports it's not even close to what we get here in Canada for college sports. It's far and away the best. Rob, you know what else is the best? Far and away. 

03:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I like that. You set me up there because I had no idea of where I was going to go for this one, but Pinnacle is, of course, the best the world's greatest sportsbook available to bettors across Canada. Find out what pro bettors have known for the past 25 years pinnacle is where the best bettors play. I bet on sports for a living for a while now. I would never consider not having pinnacle as one of my sports books. Everyday. Competitive odds, great sports book offering great customer service, easy to deposit everything you would want in a sports book. Pinnacle has it, so make sure you check them out. If you are in Canada, use code HAMMER to sign up. It does help support us here on Circles Off and the Hammer Betting Network. And of course, you must be 19 plus, not available in the US. And as always, excuse me, please play responsibly. Can't preach that enough Now. Don't want to get too heavy with things in the early going. Here we have a pretty jam-packed episode with a friend of mine, a very polarizing individual, coming up here very shortly. But before we get into that, while I was away on vacation, I somehow got set to the For you tab instead of the following tab on Twitter. More on that later when we do tweets that trigger us, because I saw a lot of stuff that, oh my God, can't even believe what I some of the things I saw. But I came across someone named Troy Hermo at Troy Hermo on Twitter, a sports gambling analyst for BR Betting Leacher Report Betting. I'd never heard of Troy before. 

04:44
He's born in 1994, eight years younger than me 2018,. He's diagnosed with stage four adrenal cancer eight and a half pound tumor on his adrenal gland the size of a Christmas ham. It needed to be removed immediately. He had a 12-hour surgery, tumors removed, along with his adrenal gland, his spleen, his kidney. Nine months later, another small spot shows up. He has to go under radiation therapy. Three months later, a tumor on his liver Extreme chemo for that. Nine months later, tumors in his lungs Immunotherapy. Twelve months later, a tumor on his spine, his other adrenal gland and his lymph nodes. So far for that no treatments have been successful. So he's entered himself into the clinical trial system. 

05:35
So for the last year and a half he's been battling cancer and it's a very rare form of cancer. Basically, his doctor told him there's nothing more that she could offer. He reached out to MD Anderson. It's the number one cancer center in the United States and they have a trial for him and they have specialists who understand his illness. Troy's Las Vegas-based. The trial is in Houston. 

06:03
He started a GoFundMe to pay for his medical expenses. His bills cover the cost of his airfare, his ride shares, food, lodging. He set a goal for $20,000. He's almost there. He's just over $19,000. 

06:16
I know that the community of people here that watch and listen to Circles Off we skew closer to pro-betters, semi-pro bettors rather than recreationals. Let's do what we can to give Troy a chance at beating his illness. So we're going to post the GoFundMe link in the description below. It's up on screen right now as well. If you're willing to support the cause, please do so. Let's get Troy over the 20k because we can. Humans helping humans Also want to take a moment to send out some positive vibes to another fellow better in the community, las Vegas Chris, who appeared here on Circles Off for episode number 118 in September of last year. 

07:00
He recently announced as well that he's battling cancer. Now I know Las Vegas Chris can be a polarizing figure in the betting world due to his pick selling. Let's put that aside for a moment. In my interactions with Chris, which I've had several. He's been very genuine. He's been down to earth, been very friendly. Regardless of your opinion on his business or his betting approach or whatever, let's unite in sending him our best wishes and give him some strength during this challenging time. 

07:34
He recorded a very long video. I watched the whole thing it was over an hour of what he's going through right now, but it's just a reminder to everyone. Life is very unpredictable and we should live each day to its fullest. So, whether you're betting on sports or you're simply navigating the ups and downs of life, appreciate the moments that you have. Spread positivity wherever you go. I can take a lot of advice from what I just said. Often I'm focused on the negative. Let's try to be a little bit more positive. 

08:06
Las Vegas Chris, I know you listen to a lot of the episodes. If you're listening now, know that the entire betting community is rooting for you. Stay strong, keep fighting. Know that you have our support here as well, at Circles Off. Here's to beating the odds, both on and off the field. Hopefully you have a speedy recovery and brighter days ahead. If everyone can join me in wishing Las Vegas Chris well, keep him in your prayers. That would be very much appreciated. All right, wow, this is like the biggest 180 in the history. There was like one time where we had G-Stack George in studio where he was doing like his plus ev moment he's like. 

08:44 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I almost started crying when I said the stupidest thing, yeah you had to follow that up. 

08:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That that was like, yeah, that was rough. Yeah, but we're going from that to this. Joining us this week on circles off is a regular here on the hammer betting network. You can find them over on the Hit the Books channel here on YouTube where he does a weekly show with Brad Powers during the college football season and mixes in some shows sporadically during the offseason, like we did this week. You can follow him on Twitter at JoeyKanish22. 22. For the amount of times that he has changed his nickname in the past before Whether it was Joey Card Counter, joey Insider, joey Sco changed his nickname in the past before. Whether it was, uh, joey card counter, joey insider, joey scoops. There was joey pucks. Joey canucks. Joey canuck, santa knish. Uh, joey canada. At one point. I think joey buckeye is a joke. There's been a lot of joeys, but it's joey knish making his second appearance on circles off. Knish, how are things? 

09:43 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
you. It feels good to be where I belong in the host chair. Now you know I didn't want to. You know I didn't know when I put the final nail in Johnny's coffin, but this feels like the time, so good to be here, and I'm already getting you know a lot of early, this could be the best Circles Off episode that's ever been done. So took 142 episodes to finally land on a superstar co-host. But the check cleared and happy to be here. 

10:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, we'll see about that. There's a new BetPod ratings account now that's run by Hagman. 

10:19 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, and it's, yes, One of the best BetPod ratings in Circles Off history, mind you the Joey Kanisha with Georgie Boy over there. So let's keep that. We got to keep that standard up. 

10:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Georgie Boy G-Stack. George, I assume you're referring to yeah yeah, yeah, the 90 Degrees episode that you did. That got a good rating, that one. 

10:42
Six out of ten, which was like a nine out of ten on on that scale it's true that was a tough rating scale for a six out of ten, that that is basically a nine out of ten anywhere else. But yeah, haggren, so far decent ratings for the, the mr limited and uh porter episodes. I think we got a four and a half out of ten for the super bowl recap. Oh well, it is what it is. 

11:04 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Okay, they're not all going to be winners no, no, you can't, you can't all be tens or six out of tens. 

11:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, uh, kanish, uh, you've appeared previously on circles off, although that was a long time ago, it's like when we were, I don't think. 

11:15 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I don't think you've done a video episode yet no, I think it was like what one of the first 10 or 15 you guys did yeah, I don't know why we picked one of you as the first 10 or 15. 

11:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You? 

11:26 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
started off with the heavy hitters, so that makes a lot of sense. 

11:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, it does. 

11:29 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I know we're doing tweets that trigger us, but in terms of segments that trigger us, I was waiting for Zach to ask me about Guy Lafleur, number 89, back in 1902 or whatever. The first 20 minutes we usually spend on, uh, you know what? What number some canadian hockey player has been dead for 30 years is? 

11:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
so we already pre-recorded that segment without you, because we didn't want thank you for my that's. 

11:53 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yes, that was. 

11:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That was a great call by the production team it was going to be in our tweets at trigger, so let's go right to that. The second last tweet, zach, if we have it, from rex Jones. So Kanish points out yesterday he's going to be recording with us today. As long as you pointlessly talk about jersey numbers of players, nobody cares about for the first 20 minutes, it will be a great show. I don't know why I do this. This is like wasting time, but I have to defend this. So I meticulously plan these podcasts. So not like everything we're going to say, but the segments. As soon as I see people jump the shark in the first five minutes, we'll stop doing it. But you know what is our highest retention rate of the entire podcast is the jersey numbers part. I don't know who likes it. 

12:39
I have no idea, but there's people. The first comments we get every week are people are just pointing out numbers that we missed. Like it drives the most engagement that we do of anything on this entire channel. 

12:50 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I think you're either like a number, like a Jersey numbers guy, and you're a guy like all where, like you remember, like when you're six years old, number 20, or you're not. Like I'm telling you, like I've been a Lions Michigan fan, I couldn't tell you from this past season, for a million dollars, a player who wore what number? Like I have zero recollection of any number. Like it never centers a man and that could be due to some other. You know mental challenges that Joey K you know deals with on a regular basis but at the same time, like it was never a thing with on a regular basis but at the same time, like it was never a thing. 

13:27
But whereas, like you got, or so, there's some, obviously some people out there that, like, they remember they number, they could, where they could rail off the, you know every player on the, the 62 canadians or something and and all their numbers and they love it. So, yeah, I'm sure there's, there's a lot of people out there that, uh, that's they, that's their thing I uh, I know jj mccarthy wore nine because I watched uh I couldn't have told you that for nine million but owes. 

13:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Owes the mentalist, whatever his name is. Owes perlman when he did the. Did you ever see that? When he was in the michigan locker room? You know, I did see that yes, and he asked coach harbaugh to pick out like a bunch of random players. Yeah, yeah, took their jersey numbers, flipped them upside down. It's spelt gold blue. I don't know how any of this stuff happens. I like that was oz, it's o's, o's, o's. It was spelt oz, but it goes. 

14:11 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He goes by o's, yes okay, interesting, I did see that. But I again that it was one of those things that you know I'm not super uh engaged in for. For you know, like a like, oh, the guy's gonna throw around the numbers, it's like barely uh, you know, yeah, do my figures. Every week I got basic addition that doesn't doesn't surprise me. 

14:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Doesn't surprise me? Um, about 75 of our audience comes through youtube, uh, not through gambling twitter. So there's gonna be a bunch of people watching this for the first time who have actually no idea who you are. So let's uh, let's skip, like, the whole life story and full background. But, but what do you do for betting? Uh, what's your role in the betting ecosystem? 

14:49 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
yeah, I would say these days, um, you know, I used to in the early days, originate some college football, still still, kind of have that like, uh, college football passion, and then you'll get into the numbers and stuff, but for the most part would be what you call um, you know, a mover and I'm sure you got you guys have outlined in some episodes and had different people on that that kind of fit, that space, but it's mostly hitting down for originators in the space. 

15:12
So I'd definitely likely lean more towards, you know, like some of the smaller markets with higher ROI, more edges, but it's pretty much mostly morphed into kind of a year round helping people get down, whether that be on PPH accounts or legals or offshore or wherever, and so that and it's funny like the industry has changed quite a bit in the last few years. So some things that you know might have been harder to get down on or more liquid are now different. I tell you what I used to do a ton more props like. Like back in the I used to do you know, a few years ago was super prop heavy and now now not as much for a number of factors. So yeah, it's always changing, always adapting, but the short version would be most, for the most part, a mover for for some smaller, smaller markets that are out there. 

16:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So Johnny's away traveling this week and I wanted to have you on for one reason in particular. But there's been a lot of questions we've gotten recently on the pod, whether that's through our community forum at thehammerbet forward slash the nails through our DMs here on Circles Off, our at mentions, emails or whatever that are related to kiosk betting, in-person betting. I don't have very much experience in that at all. I know Johnny doesn't have very much experience in that at all, so I wanted to get you on to just have a quick segment on it and specifically the pros and cons to kiosk betting, what it is, how to stay under the radar, all sorts of things like that. But before we get into that, most people should know. 

16:43 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
but for those that don't describe the differences between, I mean what's traditional betting, online, versus in-person betting and specifically like what a kiosk would be, yeah, so I mean kiosk is basically, if you take the app and you put the software on, you know a computer that'd be right in front of you at the sportsbook where you can just same as a slot machine, you insert the money in or your winning ticket in, you put a balance in and you're able to, you know, hit a few buttons and get the same bet you would on an app. Now, as the benefits for some, some people that you know and as we've seen, risk management on these apps now it's significantly better than it was even a few years ago and I know you've been, you know, consulting with a number of people. It's just, it's a lot harder now to what you would call beard or keep apt. It was even even doing some of the account management stuff. It's just, it's just a lot better. And that's kind of the you know life cycle of, uh, whatever a company they're, the risk management's better. 

17:45
So a lot of people, myself included, turn to the kiosk to be able to get more down. 

17:50
Uh, it gives you also a level of anonymity. If you're not in certain your you know players card in there, they might not know you know who, who exactly it is, uh, even though they do have some ways to to find out, as I've learned. But uh, so it's just usually a way to uh to either you know to go I one great line and I'll give give them the credit that Jeff Davis, who works at Circa, uh told me about kiosk bettors. It's the squarest of the square and the sharpest of the sharp, like those are the people you usually, if you're going to a kiosk, you're either you know betting five bucks because you want to degen and watch it there on an SGP and you're in the book all day, or you're going there as a sharp trying to get more down on some plus EV plays. So that I think is kind of the the, the best way I've heard kiosk betting described it's sad that I don't know which one you fall into out of those it depends on the day. 

18:42
It really yeah. Well, it depends what I'm going down there for all right. 

18:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, uh, let's talk it through. So you're a mover, right? Um, typically speaking, I I mean, we've seen the youtube videos of of you going to different casinos uh, sometimes crossing the border into canada to place bets and and all sorts of stuff like that typically, why would you choose to make that trip out to a, a casino, to place those bets, rather than getting them through online accounts? 

19:08 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I mean the short answer is to obviously get more down than you could on the app and as a mover, my value now in the ecosystem is to get more down than what an originator likes. That's why it's like for NFL play for the most part, unless it's a look at or something you don't need, joey K, for the money. You know you don't need somebody like me to get that. If it's lacrosse or you know college baseball or something where you would be you know by yourself as an individual might be able to get down peanuts. Because if I go down and hit a couple of kiosks at a few different locations, then I can get maybe 5x, 10x what a person could have gotten on their own or on a PPH or even on an app or one of those things. So it'll just allow you. But it's it's you know all player props or something. 

20:11
If you put that into an app, most of these places nowadays know that you know you might submit 10. Some of these places 10, 12 bets. If they're all you know player props that are getting you some CLB or winning, you're probably not going to have much longevity there, whereas if you do it anonymously on a kiosk, that kind of gives you a longer leash. Now there's their own level of challenges mixed in where you have to physically go. There are some overheads in the fact that you're going across the board. There's some time constraints where if you need to get down some real quick if you don't have somebody standing right there. So there's some time constraints where you know if you need to get down some real quick if you don't have somebody standing right there. So there's some logistics behind it that make it difficult. But yeah, I've probably spent a little too much of my life in the last five years in front of a kiosk screen, if you know what I'm saying. 

20:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, no, I get it. A few more questions on that, because actually this is interesting to me. Again, I don't. This is I'm foreign to this space. The only kiosk betting I've ever done in Ontario was pre-regulation, which would be like betting at your local convenience store. You know the pro line stuff and stuff like that, but how sophisticated are the kiosks. So what I mean by that is like you're placing a bet online with an online sports book. The vast majority of them aren't even going to tell you what your limit is on the bet. You're just going to find out once you place the bet whether or not that's within what they're willing to take on it or not, with the exception of pinnacle sports book, which you should bet at, by the way, because they tell you exactly how much you can get down on everything at the kiosk. Do you know what your max limit is on a bet, or are you going through the same process that you're going through on an online book, where you're kind of just doing trial and error? 

21:44 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
you're not gonna know, especially if you're first trying it out like you're. It's more of a learned um, what it probably is going to be. Um, so for the most part, you're, you're not gonna like, there's not gonna be a, uh, most play like a max bet button or any of that. I, you, usually, you know, you kind of try it and then you see what, what the limit is you can get. You retain that information in terms of you know what you would go because some places with the better risk management and see a rejected amount. So like, if you have a trader, that's I'll you know. I'll just say I'll give him one credit. Fanduel is one that has their risk managers watching kiosk betting credit. Fanduel is one that has their risk managers watching kiosk betting. So you don't want to have a rejected bet because that usually gets somebody's eyes on it in terms of then seeing what's going on. 

22:35
Now, not every place is like that, but the other thing is all of them and this is going to depend on state and have a max amount you can deposit into the kiosk. For michigan it's between 2400 and 2999 in terms of like. So you can't put more than three thousand dollars cash into a kiosk during one session. So you'd have to do it, make your bets, end the session, start a new session, um, to get it in there, that. So you kind of be able to calculate over time, depending on what the market is, what they usually take, how fast I can turn it around, because some places might, you know, a couple of kiosks, they might move it right away. Some places you might get a few in lot of um, what you would call, like you know, tactical knowledge. That's not going to be, you know, readily available that that helps you get, uh, more efficient at it or more experience and you're basically just learning this through experience, like there was no guidebook for you beforehand. 

23:35
Yeah, and it's going to be different too, like the. Even if I ask somebody in new jersey or louisiana or mississippi, they might not have the same experience, even at the same book and the same limit. So it's really got to be. You know your own learning experience and you know I'll communicate with guys that are in different areas but, and a lot of like, some states don't even offer the same markets as the other one. So, yeah, most of my knowledge was was learned through trial and error. 

24:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, you're going to have to deal with some idiotic questions for me for a second here, but yeah, no, keep it rolling. 

24:07 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm used to that. 

24:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's no different than our normal conversation I, I put it up, I teed it up for you. I did there. I knew it was coming um the anonymous betting which you mentioned off the top right. So I'm assuming that in some cases you don't have to put in a player's card or anything. You can just go up, put cash in the kiosk, place your bets right. Let's say you get limited or you know what the limit is on a specific bet. What is stopping you from just creating a new session on that key, like, are there preventative measures within the kiosk itself? Where, like, what if the next person wanted to play the same bet as you like? Can you just take cash out, put cash back into a machine and play the same bet again? How, how does that go? 

24:44 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
So you can. For the most part it depends on the shot, like different shops have different risk management tactics and some of it is like a certain number of bets triggers, like a trader review, where if the same bet gets hit two, three times in a row, then it gets sent to the. It lowers the stake factor down to like 10 percent of what it normally is, even on the kiosk and a trader has to review it. Other places they actually have, like act, as I mentioned, fanduel is one place that has raiders actively monitoring their kiosk and they'll, uh, you know, contact somebody at that working at the book to come then say, you know, hey, uh, you can't, you can't put any more on that or any of that type of thing. So it's different per book, but most of them that I've used have some form of risk management baked in. 

25:38
Now there are a couple shops that I would say maybe the kiosks that I've been to that are lesser known like operators that might not have anything baked in, and so if you post something bad, you could, you could have a real bad day. Uh, a real good day for joey k, a real bad day if you're, if you're working at that operator, but those are, um, usually the smaller. You know casinos or the operators that people aren't as familiar with. You know your standard. Um, big name brands in the us have the risk management kind of baked into the kiosk now in some form. 

26:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
A couple of the smaller places, uh, you know that you can still find some gems that might be a little bit more, you know, uh, exposed would there ever be a reason that you would, uh, actually place the bet like using your real identity, like using a player's card or like is there a reason for you to do that in any capacity, whether it's like rewards points or whatever? Is that ever big enough to offset? Just like going and hitting these machines as as anonymously as possible? 

26:47 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
um, you know not, not for me anymore. I will say there are times if I, if, uh, what you know everybody, I'm sure there'll be some people that won't tricks of the trade. One that I've used before is if I have, and I like this one because it, um, I don't know, it just makes you know, makes you feel you get some revenge If you've got a really limited account but that might move a number on the app. So I've stood at some places two feet away from a kiosk, use my app to hit a line one way moves, you know the opposite way you'd actually want. And then you know, right, what, take one step forward and then, uh, you know, go hit the kiosk, uh, at the better number now that I've created for myself. So, um, that's uh, that, and again that that's not going to work for for everybody or every encounter, every, but just one of the things that um has helped in the past. 

27:47
Now, if you're, I haven't really had too much experience with, like, using a player's card in a kiosk. I've never really been to my benefit. I know some. If you're doing like, maybe if you wanted to try and prime an account a little bit, and you know, uh, enter your player if you're new and you know, use a few SGP or some square stuff in. Maybe that could work. I don't know I haven't tried it, but that would be the only scenario I can think of that you'd want to use the player's card. Or you know, you have, maybe somebody you know has a player's card, that's you know a higher level. Higher level that is, you know a table game guy who's got a nice player's card, has been losing for years. Your uncle, your friend, you're somebody. You can take that player's card, throw it in. Maybe that would help. But um, I haven't had much of that experience not that we would recommend that for legal purpose no, no, no, because that I think there's a yeah that that wouldn't be looked highly upon. 

28:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He would get them to put their players card in and make the bet on their own behalf. 

28:47 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yes, yes, bring them, yeah, yeah, bring them along for a fun trip, just in case, because that's one of those things. If the book in casino catches on that you did it, they're probably no longer going to want your business. 

29:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Correct. I know it differs by state, but I believe that in Nevada that once the ticket is printed, it's the ticket. No matter what you catch them with like a horrible price, win a ton of money, that's the ticket. Is that your experience in other states as well, or is there because this happens a lot, like you bet into an online account bad price, it gets canceled, it gets voided. You kind of don't have any recourse for that with the kiosk. You're getting a printed ticket out. What happens in a scenario where you try to bang a um, poor price, an error or something like that? What's your experience with that? 

29:40 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
so this is very this is very state dependent, as you mentioned, where, um, I know, I know Nevada has much more player friendly opt-in, whereas in New Jersey recently and I've heard a lot of cases if you are like multi-hitting, a bad price or even something that they didn't want that much exposure, they've taken now the leap to start voiding those tickets and like will contact you and void those tickets. 

30:06
I have not run into a situation where I have actually had a ticket voided. Now, granted, I will stay away from like something that I know is like or like there might be something, but I'm in terms of like, you know, a five to one, that's 500 to one. I'm not, you know, gonna do any of that um stuff, because I think that's something that'll get you 86. But I have noticed, depending on the, the state, uh, that some gaming commissions might be a little bit more player friendly depending on some state, and so I've known a few guys that have had that, have like, attacked some mistake lines and and gotten their tickets voided, and have had that, have like, attacked some mistake lines and gotten their tickets voided and have had to go, like you know, try and fight it in that. So I stay away from the actual like mistake lines on the kiosk. But I think it's going to vary depending on what it is, how bad you hit them and where you're at. 

31:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean it's an interesting like. When you're betting online, you attack a bad price, it gets voided. I don't want to say no harm, no foul, because you put some time in to get that price and to bet it, but in a lot of cases you're taking advantage of a bad line when you're going and betting in person. I mean there's a cost associated with getting there, like there's gas costs money. It might've cost you 15 or 20 bucks in gas just to get to the casino to place the bet, for them to then void it. I don't know. We're now entering territory where I'm not super happy with that. 

31:37 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That can happen, but I guess each state makes their own rules and you factor it like what if you're now like somebody sends me this bet, I get 10 tickets at 10 to 1. It wins, but they didn't want. Now they'll say, well, no, you shouldn't have been able to re-bet it this many times. We're only going to grade one ticket and void the other nine. Does you know? And you're not going to in a lot of cases, if it's a, you know, sometimes I've had people play the one I can remember, the Tom Brady Bucks season. They won the Super Bowl where a friend of ours that we both know played a lot of tickets in New Jersey and they actually called him after the Brady signing was announced and said we're not honoring these. Like, you can come get your money, but these are all void. 

32:28
So in a situation like that, at least they're good. But there might be some scenarios where, if you know, if the event's the next day and you smash the bad line and then you try and go cash it in. We've had some like I've had a few that were like locked in terms of, like you get up there, it scans, it has to be reviewed by you know a supervisor trading in that before they'll will you out to kind of make sure it's you or you know they give you a little I don't call it a slap on the wrist or you know type of a little speech there in terms of you know, we're not going to take too many of these type of things. 

33:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I definitely want to get into the collecting funds conversation but before we do, are there any strategies in terms of when you place the bet, like avoiding bets that win a certain amount of money? 

33:13
Do you do stuff like that or will you take your shot on anything? Because I've heard from other in-person bettors before that they tend to stay under a certain range because they don't want to have to go cash a ticket that's going to draw a ton of attention so they avoid. You know, people have I've said to me before there's been times where there's like a ton of attention so they avoid. You know, people have I've said to me before there's been times where there's like a ton of mistake lines and there'll be people that go and parlay all these things together but then they create these tickets that have like to win a hundred K and if they go ever go try to cash that ticket, there's just going to be like red flag central. Do you do any of that stuff in terms of like trying to stay under a certain range or you just play what you're going to play? 

33:50 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
yeah, I would say for the most part. Uh, you know a lot of my stuff, like straight bets, um, I agree, like I'll call it. Uh, what's like a? Um, you know a retirement hitter like type of thing where, if you're going to do that, you need to realize like make it worth your while where you're, you realize like losing access to that casino is like I'm never gonna do. 

34:17
You know, if you do that and you won twenty thousand dollars, that's not, it's not worth, that's not an amount of money to me that would make it worth it to lose access to betting at that casino. 

34:26
So you have, you know, if you're gonna go for the, you know the mistake line, sgp, um, you, you better really go for it, because if it wins, um, and you go to cash the, the bear the high likelihood that you're not going to be able to bet there anymore. So for me it's like this roi analysis of if I'm going to do something like that, it's got to be. You know, such a, such a massive score that it was worth like likely losing my access, uh, to that, to that place, forever. And remember, there it might not just be that casino sports, but it might be all of them across the entire world, like, if you look at, you know spanky got the boot from uh, I forget which place, but like that's every casino, every sportsbook, every property in the world of theirs that you no longer can walk into. So it's really got to be worth your while. If you're going to do that kind of stuff, that would be my recommendation. 

35:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm sure he let their customer service reps know all about it. 

35:25 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, he brought all go a little there. We do a 30-second. That might be and I'm not joking some of the worst advice in terms of keeping your. I'm telling you I have been able to remain a customer at a number of the places around here by being super polite to the staff, always going when they tell me you know, hey, not anymore on this, or have to leave always, you know, leaving a nice tip in that. Uh, I could not disagree more. And again, spanky gives a lot of good information. But in terms of that specifically, I think for your average rec, rec plus player or even sharp player, that is not. I've never heard of any scenario where being a huge dick to the customer service people benefited a better in any way whatsoever. There's no story where you go in there and you said my limits suck f you. Oh, sir, sir, sorry about that. Here's 5 000 on. Uh, you know the points over prop you wanted it just happened I I'm still trying to process that one. 

36:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I I mean I get it like I get up the, I get the uh build up, or like the pent-up frustration of just years and years and like you reach a boiling point where you just associate every single employee of that sportsbook with like being the devil, basically yes I get it also. I'm on the. I'm on your side with it as well. It's just not going to get you anywhere. 

36:51 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's not going to do anything for you. It's not going to do anything for you. A lot of bookmakers that I know the one way to get kicked out if you're not a sharp is treating the service people like trash or going off on them. People have gotten trespassed for treating the staff like that, not sharp people people I've heard like their friends and stuff that can't go into somewhere because of how they treated the staff. So, yeah, I, I just uh, I would strongly advise against that. Even if you're getting limited or told though you know not like you, you just want to take it as professional as possible exactly. 

37:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um, on the collecting fund side, uh, do you ever encounter issues with collect like? Is it one of those? Let's say you, you want a bunch of tickets at one place, you go cash them all at once, you split it up into different trips. Do you try to do be like a little bit thoughtical about it? Is there any sort of um advice that you can give on that front? 

37:48 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
you know what I I've I've never encountered too much uh of an issue hashing the actual tickets, the, and I've heard some of the strategies of people saying that, like you want to split it up. One guy I know likes to mail them in. Uh, you can kind of sign them and mail them in and then they send you a check back. Um, so that's one strategy to kind of do it. I don't usually have the need to leverage that. For the most part, like the places I frequent they know who I am, you know, they know what I'm doing. They're okay with it to a certain extent, as long as it's, you know, not over a certain level. 

38:26
So, for the most part, the caching, I don't think it's going to like significantly benefit you one way or another in terms of how you do it, where, uh, in a lot of cases they'll see, like, if you hit something 20 times, it's very easy for trading to go in and see these 20 bets were placed within, you know, uh, five minutes of each other at the same kiosk. So if one gets cashed, they can like take that ticket number and then go link it to the other 19. So it doesn't really like there's no benefit of like well, I you know I did three here and three there and then three at this time. It's like, um, I don't think they really care as much in terms of the payout amount as seeing, like, what you bet and when you bet it. Anybody that looks into it for five minutes on their end can see what happened when it happened, how many you bet, that type of thing. 

39:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you place the bet anonymously, do you have to show identification when you cash it? Yes, no matter what. No matter what. 

39:27 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
The size, no matter what, no matter what the size, no matter what. So they, you usually have to fill out a W I think it's called the W nine form in the United States which is a some type of tax, especially if the amount is over $10,000, I think. So there's a form that they'll make you find and then, once you fill it out, once you have it on file, they know who you are. So, like even when I use it on a cash, I'll give them either my player number, my players card and all the the tickets that I had, but I didn't use that on the front end to actually place the ticket. So, yeah, you, you have to show you can't do the ticket. And now you can if you have a winning ticket. This is a little we'll go and it's under the amount of the kiosk max. 

40:11
So we talked about that in michigan. It's like in most places, two to three k. So if you have a winning ticket that's under that and you can scan it in, you can scan that winner and then you have boom your funds in the chat and then boom like place, place more bets from there. So it would behoove you, and especially in terms of efficiency, where, like, instead of me having a slide 30, you know, benjamins into a kiosk over and over. If I have some winning tickets that are under that amount, scan them in uh, and then can, kind of you know, a go faster, b stay a little bit more anonymous. So that's um. That helps too in terms I. I think you know uh spoon, who you've had on in the past uh, I've talked to spoon. 

40:54
I haven't had him on oh, okay, I thought he came on for an mba, but um, he was the one that, like he would just have a uh, like a bunch of of like you just put the money in and hit withdraw and it gives you a voucher. So you just have a bunch of vouchers on you at all the time so you can, like uh, scan the vouchers in. So that was one where, like uh and it was a while ago, I remember seeing him say so, that was kind of a light bulb like oh man, that's no wonder he's the goods. Uh, you know he had, uh, he had the system. 

41:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, you know, all down uh, years ago yeah, it's got to be tough carrying 30 benjamins in a duffel bag around the casino right. 

41:27 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, especially 5,000. As we know 5,000, you got to have your backpack and your suitcase ready and getting ready to go there. But, yeah, it also gives you a little bit of a layer of safety in terms of not sure if you've been to a Detroit casino late on a weekday, but it ain't exactly like Treasure Island, if you know what I'm saying. I know what you're saying. 

41:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know what you're saying. A lot of people will not understand the reference that we just gave. You don't have to. The point is you don't need a duffel bag or a backpack to carry around $5,000 with you. You could put it in your pocket. That's the point that we're trying to make. Anything we haven't covered with the kiosks that is worthwhile, whether that's like some sort of you know advice on how to use them things to avoid anything else that we've missed here still, you know, on the up and up for the most part is theirs. 

42:31 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
They have, if they want it, they have access to be able to see, like the actual footage. Like the sports book can ask the casino for footage of you in there. So, like, even you know you're doing anonymous, like you don't want to cross the line too much and think that it's you can be 100 anonymous because they there's there's ways for them to find out, uh, you know who it was type of thing. So, um, I would say, you know, keep it within the realm of, you know, of reasonability, you know. So I know some people like to to chase that you know one shot, but uh, yeah, there's there's ways for them to to identify you even without using a player's card yeah, good advice. 

43:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, I remember attending the ice um conference in london probably four or five years ago, and the technology that they had already had for casinos like just blew me away with. Um, the mapping that they have as soon as you step in the door. Every machine you've played, how you've walked throughout, even where you like may have shrugged as if you were going to go one way and went in another direction. There's like studies focused on why you might have turned, like not made the turn at that point and what. It's actually crazy. So, um, yeah, I mean I'm not like a big brothers watching you uh type of guy, but like yes, uh, and I mean it's gotta to be only a matter of time if, before, there's cameras in the machines itself, if there aren't already. 

43:53 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Correct yeah, I would agree. I think that uh is definitely coming at some point and, like anything else in this, I'm sure the uh new jersey has really bared the brunt of this in terms of the risk management, where I know there's some places that, like they have somebody kiosk, are roped off. They have an employee and you have to, like, give your ID to them to see who you are, even to go in and have access to them. So, yeah, like anything else, I think it's only going to get tougher as we go along here. 

44:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yep, Anything they can do in Jersey to not take hitman's bets right. 

44:26 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
And listen. Maybe we can send them footage of the forward progress bets from this year. Maybe he'll have all his limits back. If we can, you know, cut up a little. I have Zach cut it up and send it to every casino. Hitman will be getting you know VIP. He'll be eating lobster and steak and all the you know the places for free here after that. 

44:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jokes on the casinos for sure. 

44:44 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
If they didn't want to take the football bets they cost of a pretty penny this year. 

44:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Tough, tough break. Tough break for them. Switching gears here very different topic, but you've been very vocal, especially in the last six months, and very upfront about dealing with anxiety and having an anxiety disorder and just like really just bearing that to the public and describing the process and like basically how much of a toll it's taken on you at times where deprivation of sleep, not being able to go outside and all sorts of things and first of all, I applaud you for putting that out publicly because there's a lot of people who suffer in silence. For one, that just so credit to you for doing that because I think it lets people know that like they're not alone in that situation. But you also are involved in the betting industry, which is just like filled with emotional swings and ups and downs. 

45:53
So how are you managing this on a day-to-day now? Is it improving for you? Have you seeked help in regards to this situation? Do you talk to people? What's that process been like for you over the course of the last several months? Because I know for a while it was eating away at you and you're very upfront about it. And listen, we don't always see you know it's not always public facing how a person's feeling and people can hide things in there. But if you're comfortable with it, kind of share your experience a little bit over the past several months and things that you've been doing that have been making this easier for you. 

46:25 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, you know I would say five years ago I had a really rough about with the original, about where I think I'd always been anxious to a certain extent but was, you know, on a stress, was on, you know, going great and had the first time where started having like what you would call disordered anxiety and was like I had no idea. You know my body's like, you know I'm having all these like physical symptoms and you know originally went to a doctor, got prescribed some medication and, you know, did a little bit of therapy and you know was able to get back to a good place. And you know a couple of months, you know four or five years, went by and I had like like kind of human uh instinct is like I kind of let the the ball down in terms of like self-care and making sure that I wasn't getting too stressed. You know I was having some relationship stuff. I was having obviously a ton on my plate with uh, the betting uh, and you know Julie Corporate was uh, you know getting back in the office than that and starting has had some of those you know like where it kind of reflared up uh, and you know it's kind of having a a relapse into it where you started having, like you know, nights where I wasn't sleeping very well and kind of the return of like the, the dread and some of the physical symptoms and wanted to. Um, you know, I think, for this space too, like I, I have talked to so many people that sports betting can be such a, especially if you're doing it on, you know, a rec plus or a professional level. It's so prevalent that so many people and I don't, like you know, I'm never, I would never name names or that, but people I've talked to that have have either dealt with anxiety or depression in some form. Um, it's just pretty ramp. 

48:09
I think spanky had one, you know, I told him a little bit earlier but he had one great that said everybody in this industry is mentally fucked up in some way, some more than others, and I agree with, like he was. You know, he kind of said it as a little bit of a joke, but there's, you know, a lot of stuff that people, especially in this industry, go through because it's, as you said, said it's a high stress industry, it's a high variance industry. Um, a couple of things I did was I I don't, you know, obviously I still take the you know medication. I got back into some you know good cbt there and really got into it psychoeducation and cbt, um, and not just. I kind of half-assed it the first time around started taking some medication, was feeling better, didn't really go full on, really dove into it this time to kind of say, okay, I'm going to fix this. 

48:55
You know, going forward and really, you know, wanted to be so reliant and I had to make some life changes. 

49:02
I was, you know, when I was a younger man I could drink, you know, a couple of Dan Campbell coffees and you, you know, put in front of the screen all day and go crazy and that that was starting, uh, it just wears on you at some point and your, your stress jug or whatever, overflows and you start, uh, feeling, you know, start started having some, uh, some rough times and so the you know the only way out of it is to kind of undo some of those bad habits and realize you know kind of what you're dealing with and go out and get some help. 

49:28
And I know I've been more vocal with it because, whatever you want to call it a gift, I don't mind Like I know there's a lot of guys and a lot of men that like, don't want to talk, but especially men, the stigma you don't want to talk about it publicly, you don't want to be looked at Like. That has never bothered me in any sense. So it's easy for me to like I mean, I'm a guy who tried. You know you went out there on video and you know, tried to do 250 push-ups and came up by you know 80 short. 

49:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So like I don't mind my I would say uh, at least 180 short on proper technique. 

50:01 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yes, yeah, I, you know, wanted to put it out there so, like people in the space could see that. Like, if you're not as comfortable, um, or you're not somebody that would want that shared, or any of that. Like, oh, this person's going through. Here's a few resources I used to, you know, help educate myself, um, and you know what you know. Like, maybe you know, get to the point where, um, you don't have to to have that hanging over your head at some point. It doesn't mean you got to be, you know, not everybody's going to be comfortably in this public with it, but, um, you know something that, uh, because it's a tough thing to go through, uh, do you have any sort of like specific, uh, relaxation techniques or mindfulness practices, um, that have been helpful for you? 

50:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
we had rufus on a long time ago and we talked about this subject a little bit and he talked about how he's, you know, getting back into the gym. Uh, regular exercise got into some meditation. Um, for me, I have specific things where, like, if I'm overwhelmed, I just put on like some noise canceling headphones and I just listen to music. Exercise works well for me. Is there anything that you found for yourself in particular that tends to work outside of of medication? Um, or you know anything like that? 

51:14 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
you know what I I would say getting finding a way to get away from the screen, whether that be your phone or the computer, and do something engaging where you're my, where like you're gonna do something that would be maybe a little bit healthier. Whether that that be, I didn't. Honestly, it had been years, years since I had physically read a book. People always make the can't read joke. I hadn't read anything, not on a screen, in years and actually, you know, I bought a few books and did a reading and that'd be. I got a hot, maybe you take a bath, maybe you take a hot tub. 

51:47
Something that gets you away I had had part of was the compulsion to always be checking whether it be a score, whether it be a telegram message, whether it be a text. 

51:59
I had found myself just compulsively always being like locked in, and so the permission to kind of get away from that for periods of time and especially know, for a guy, if you're a up down guy, I know that's something where, like you know, you might walk away from the 30 minutes and all you can think about is that you know you might have cost yourself, you know, a couple of dimes or something you missed, a number and that kind of having to walk back and whatever, whatever exercise, whether it be the walk, whether the meditation, something that you enjoy, that's actually call it relaxing, or some type of activity that, whether it be listening to a podcast, maybe listening to Circles Off, just something that isn't, you know, giving you such an intense cognitive load where you can. 

52:45
And that's what I started doing more proactively throughout the day is letting the phone go for 15, 20 minutes, doing some breathing, doing some you know whatever your meditation, for four periods of time throughout the day where I was giving my mind a break, get super caffeinated and be locked in all day and almost subconsciously didn't realize, like, how much stress I was putting on myself until it becomes a you know a problem or a disorder. So you start feeling the physical and, uh, you know, mental, like, uh, you know uncomfortableness with it. 

53:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yep, totally get it. I've seen the uh Joey Poindexter look with the reading glasses and some of the videos yeah, listen, you know, don't, don't say, you got a little bit yeah, yeah, uh, you, you still holding strong with the caffeine, or? 

53:37 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
doing. All I'm doing is decaf right now and again. I don't like that might not be. I don't want to say like that, that's all caffeine, you stop caffeine. It's a cure-all. 

53:46
It was I was probably a drinking too much and then b, when I was really feeling anxious um, that's like I've heard referred to as like pouring gas on a fire type of thing, where you know caffeine is going to make you have those symptoms, whereas so for me, it was a time to step back. Will I, you know? Will I stay caffeine free forever? I don't know. 

54:06
I think it was just one of those things that helped me in the short term in a room that I wanted to see if I could do to. You know, like how to put, uh, you know the challenge to myself, and so we're going on that. So, yeah, I mean, maybe you know, if you're one of those people that's drinking like, uh, I know some people. I mean, if you're having like five, six cups a day, drinking it all day, then maybe that's something that you know you can kind of directly link to having some of those things. But it was one of those things that, yeah, I thought for the short, you know, for the time being it was. We'll see if I can, you know, get off the sauce and just been doing decaf for now. 

54:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Good stuff Hanging in there. Stay strong. 

54:42 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Staying strong but staying on the wagon for now. We'll see if we'll see what happens next football season, but for now you know it's nice and I'll tell you what. You know why I stopped betting college. I'm back into betting college. I stopped betting college basketball like literally because of stress, like stress and anxiety. I was like I'm out for that. 

55:05
So maybe give yourself like I would give myself Saturday and Sunday for football and then during the week I'm not watching any of this shit, like I'm not stuff that I have wagers on I'm not watching. And again, that's not right. Whatever it says, maybe you want to do that. And again, I'm talking for people that maybe you're having some, you know, stress, anxiety too much. For me it was like I'm giving myself Monday through Friday. I'm not sweating games, I'm not getting you know, involved in that. Or if I'm going to watch Monday night football, I'm not going to have a sizable wager on that type of thing of like. I'll give myself a day or two but I'm not. You know, I'm not going to do the six, seven days a week be watching. I remember years ago on ESPN plus, watching some like me, act basketball that I had on and like absolutely wanted to put my head through the screen, and you know that I that's one of those times I always remember like, okay, this, this was this, this needed to change. 

55:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yep, at least you recognized it and you figured it out, and now you've moved on and hopefully you're better off for it. Joey Kanish does appear on hit the books here. Part of the hammer betting network. This wasn't on the agenda for today. The Hammer Betting Network this wasn't on the agenda for today Just came down. Has nothing to do with betting Sources. The idea of a 14-team college football playoff was discussed by the CFP management committing at meetings in the Dallas area today. If that happened, it would begin in 2026. Nothing is imminent, but the idea is being discussed. 14-team college football playoff. Can I ask you like why they think that just adding more and more teams is going to solve any problems? 

56:39 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's just like this is the Mark Jackson meme. What happened to the game I love? 

56:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know like. 

56:47 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I just there's so much going on with college and it's like it's all's. 

56:53
There's not a great governing body, as you know. 

56:55
This isn't like you know where you have, uh, a strong commissioner in the pro sports and there's so many, you know, changes that are solely driven, uh, monetarily, whether you know it. 

57:07
Be that and again, not that I don't want to be like, get off my lawn. Guy of like I don't mind kids making money or getting paid for this stuff or all that, but it you know what it goes from 12 and then it's like, oh, we can add another game and make it 14, and it's one of those things and you've seen it where a lot of like the pro sports regular seasons outside of the nfl, who gives a shit about, like you know, ml, mlb game, one 26 or NBA game, you know 42 or any of this stuff, and that that was never an issue with the college football regular season, cause there was so much on the line every week. And you start to get farther and farther away with that. We're now everything's going to shit. Everything is going to change. It's your experience as a fan now where, like it used to be, you know that undefeated season which would get you into the you know, the top two seed and maybe get you a national championship. 

57:55
You've got to totally reframe where, like if you're in the big 10 or the sec, nine and three is a great year where like you might be sitting there, you know, a few years ago and like, um, I don't know, I don't know the fan experience and the television experience. It just seems like a lot of things that are changing that are not improving the game in any way whatsoever. And again, short term is it going to matter? No, long term, I don't know man, I don't know where it's going. It feels like it's going to look a lot different in a few years, and not for the better few years and not for the better. 

58:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is coming from a Canadian that listen. I grew up watching college football, but I don't live it and breathe it like a lot of Americans do on Saturdays. I just like to watch good football games whenever they're on. Would it be that challenging to just make it like the college football playoff, dependent on the year? Like at the end of last season they could have just said hey, listen, there's an argument for six teams here. You know, florida State and Georgia could be, and let's make it a six-team playoff. Some years it's like clearly, these are the best two teams in the country and there's no one close to them. So let's get the season's end and let's say this is going to be the national championship. Like is it? Is it that difficult to be adaptable in a season like I? I don't really understand that. Why we just have to force it to be like okay, it's gonna be four teams or it's gonna be 14 teams or what like. Why can't it just be based off of the landscape for that specific year? 

59:23 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
yeah, you know, I mean before the, the, the BCS and all that. I guess they had some almost a pseudo version of that where you might have the one and, you know, two teams playing like a bowl game, depending on who it is, or be able to decide it. That way I sound like the more subjectivity you put in and then it's like who's deciding? That? You know what I'm saying because, in terms of like, okay, you're going to give it to this committee of guys who are, you know kind of I don't want to say bought and paid for, who are you know kind of I don't want to say bought and paid for, but are really, you know, dependent on the TV network to to kind of decide who they were. You know, alabama getting in over Florida state type of thing. 

59:59
It's like if there was a, a common sense way to do that, I understand, but it's like you're never going to have one, you're never going to have total agreeance and two, you're never going to have one, you're never going to have total agreements and two, you're never going to have this body of people that, um, it's almost like you would need, uh, you know, a college football fan vote to get it in. 

01:00:19
You know that type of thing and I don't know. I I just I thought the 14 playoff probably made the most sense. I'm, I'm, you know, kind of open to a little bit of the, the expansion details, but but once you start, as you just say, once you open the Pandora's box and you start seeing more money for more games, you get to the stupid. Whatever the 60-18 to you that now they want for the college basketball March Madness tourney, nobody cares about the Tuesday game that you got in those know in those games. And so it's like you almost get to a point where you start having more and more irrelevant games that could be in a playoff. Not a huge fan of that. 

01:01:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean I guess it's just happening across all sports Like the World Cup, for example, euro Cup and stuff like that you just keep expanding it to all these teams, that are in there and you get these games where teams lose like 7-0. Brutal. 

01:01:15 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
There's never any contract, because once you get there and you establish that baseline of dollar amount, that team will never contract. It will never, ever go back outside of some massive happy. You're stuck with that, regardless of what happens once the checks are rolling in for the additional game. So, yeah, I agree. Uh, I don't love it, but you know, I like I always say this is what we always say and hit the book show. Are we going to stop watching? No, so they, they got me over a barrel. What are you going to do? They could do what I could start, you know, having guys, you know, you know, with pom-poms on the sideline, am I still going to watch a college football? Yeah, so I can bitch about it all day. I'm not, I'm not going to turn it off. 

01:01:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean it's, I'm in the same boat as you. I complain about the NFL nonstop. Why are they going to call it? Why can't they do this? Why can't we get like automatic, you know, review of penalties in real time? It doesn't matter, it's, I'm gonna watch, I'm gonna, yeah, until until it's bad enough that I'm not gonna watch. Then, uh, it's a moot point. Um, last thing, and before we get into tweets that trigger us here really quickly, really flying under the radar, just want to get your opinion on this. Des bryant, my former favorite player, des caught it. He actually didn't catch it. 

01:02:27 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He didn't catch it based off the rules based off the yeah, the rules that they've modified four times since then. 

01:02:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Dez didn't catch it. Should have been. Should have caught it based off of whatever. Anyways, cash is a massive parlay this week 13 games, something like $775 risk. Did anyone look at this parlay? 

01:02:51 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
love this theory. You told me about the theory pre-show and I love it like I'm all. I'm all the way in on it now okay, like for what's des bryant doing? 

01:02:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
putting $775 on on college basketball parlays with, like these mid-major teams. Do you think like des bryant is following, like he's not? So that was like my first I saw this thing. I'm like why this, this something reeks here but then I saw this video afterwards where he got it all paid out in cash, like he didn't get the wire or anything like that, and I'm thinking in my head. I'm like, obviously this guy placed this bet, or somebody placed this bet for des. This is speculation, is speculation, by the way. 

01:03:31 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
And didn't him? And like LeBron, haven't they like a few times been like LeBron, be like Adam, be like yo Dez, who you on this week? And LeBron like, oh, hey, lebron, Like it's this organic conversation that happened, like, oh, lebron, I like the steelers and, uh, you know, a couple other teams in this part. So I agree with you that there there's more at play here, and not not to be like tinfoil you know joey tinfoil over here but yes, I'm with you that there's. There's more to that than than just the. 

01:04:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, he picked about 13 teams off of off a list and, uh, you know, hit it well, I listen, I'm sure this guy, he made a ton of money playing football even though he retired early, ad endorsements, whatever. Like he can debt, like he can afford to be placed in 750 parlay's don't get me wrong. But the likelihood that maybe someone's betting his account parlayed some plus EV money lines to compound, you know the payout which I mean. 

01:04:36
There's certain people on Twitter that are always like, oh, never parlay. You know the bender guy who gets into it with everybody's like oh, don't parlay. Well, I mean, if you're parlaying like a bunch of edges together, you're just compounding the edge further. It's bigger payout. But like is I? I just find it very. It's within the range of possibilities. I just find it really weird that des would be sitting at home 13 game parlays, bunch of mid mid majors college basketball, getting the payout in cash. I don't know like you get the payout in cash, because then you can go pay the other people and it's not on the books. 

01:05:15 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
No, I'm with you. I think there's some credence to this, more so than yeah, it was very when you look, because you said it. Then I looked at the ticket. I was like, oh yeah, that does. And he's been, yeah, and he's been kind of dabbling in the space. And he's been, yeah, and he's been kind of dabbling in the space, you know, for some time. So, yeah, I would not be surprised if there was more to that story that we may never know. 

01:05:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We probably will never know. By the way, people just one person's opinion here Just sent off the Pizzola Spidey senses a little bit when I saw, when I saw that play anyways, Like when I don't, Zach can cut this out if it's, if it's too, but like when he worked for the ringer. 

01:05:58 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
now, old Raheem Palmer was, was, was, was placing some big, big tickets around there where I'm pretty sure he was, you know, running for. I don't know we may or may not know. So there was, you know like where it was, like huh, this guy's like works for action network. Then was the ringer and he's placing like 30,000 on an NBA total. Might be a foot there. So yeah, there tends to be more than meets the eye in some of these situations. 

01:06:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Hey, man Simon Hunter's placing million-dollar bets on the. 

01:06:40 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Super Bowl? Yeah, well, that one, and he's trying to get off the positions, live as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, hopefully he brought his suitcase to get the couple grand from the counter right it's hard to do in hawaii it's hard to do in hawaii, where he was extradited to by. 

01:06:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, we need a segment on this show called simon says I'm developing it. 

01:06:59
I'll get a clip every single. Here's the thing. Uh, we'll move on shortly. I don't have an obsession with this guy but once we did that episode, like our famous episode on Circles Off, it's got our most views of. Like me and Johnny reacting to Simon Hunter and Ross Tucker, I get people nonstop who are sending me clips of stuff of him, dming me clips. Can you believe what he said this week? I don't follow this guy, I don't see this stuff, but I get sent so much stuff and there's like it's too good, like there's just a gold mine of stuff that we can, that we have to cover and this extradition story this needs to be covered in detail. 

01:07:44 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Is uh mona lisa of of of absurdness? 

01:07:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I. We need to get this guy on. I need to get him. Or Chad, I need some explanation. 

01:07:55 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Who would force you to go? Like what are you talking about? Like what are you in witness protection? Like what? What would be the mechanism? What body is forcing you to move west? He didn't even say why. Like, you've got to move, I've got to get. I gotta get off the east coast. 

01:08:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm gonna soprano I'm paraphrasing here just so the audience knows, but essentially there is a one minute clip circulating from from something where simon says that he tried to create his own sport. He tried to leave his current syndicate to create his own syndicate in New Jersey and his his current syndicate got word of it and they said, no, this is not happening, get the fuck out of here, you're going somewhere else. But we're gonna pay for you to go there and to live there. And as an F? You to them, he said, all right, I'm going out to Hawaii because that's going to be the most expensive. 

01:08:54
Then he got there, lived there for two months and said, like the betting sucks here. No shit, dude, who could have, like you're a pro sports better? You thought you're going to the biggest betting scene in Hawaii and he moved back now and I don't know what's going on. And he moved back now and I don't know what's going on. But, like there's so many questions I have in this story and this is how it was like, again it comes back to the definition of what he thinks a syndicate is. But in no world could I like the people I bet with now if I just said, guys, I no longer need you. I'm going to go on and do my own thing. They would not be like no, you got to get the fuck out of Toronto. 

01:09:32 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah you got to get out, you got to head over to Montreal and we're going to pay for you to go there. 

01:09:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You go now, but we're going to cover the cost. 

01:09:42 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
We're going to give you per diem for your cost. You got to get out of here, but we'll pay the freight and your rent. 

01:09:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's something that's going on here that I don't understand. I never will, but anyways, Simon says coming soon to Circles Off, Zach hit it. Tweets at Trigger Us. 

01:10:00 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I don't know what we're yelling about. I've never seen you mad. 

01:10:04 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I get peeved. Why are you in such a bad mood? What do you care? 

01:10:07 - Zack Phillips (Other)
It's only a game. Why do you have to be mad? 

01:10:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, a reminder this is an offensive segment, I don't mean it to be. Last time we did this, there was a guy that wanted to fight me at the next Bet Bash. We've since cleared that up. Big D thumbs up. 

01:10:24 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Oh yeah, big D, big D. You know, he's boys with Fraley, who's Twitter I like I know some people, yeah, yeah, yeah, tweet this. Who tweets that trigger us? Yeah, well, yeah, the segments that trigger us have been a common theme. 

01:10:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will say we haven't done this in a while. I believe the last time we did this. Kirk Evans was with me in studio when we did this. There's a lot that we're going to go through. Some of these came from myself. Some of these came from myself. Some of these came from knish. Some of these have come, which we've been collecting through circles off the m's through our community. The hammerbet forward, slash the nails. 

01:11:02 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
There's a smorgasbord I'm, of stuff, incredibly excited for this. I didn't even look. I just I, because I want an instant reaction on some of you were sending a few to me, but I wanted, like my initial, like shock and awe on some of them. 

01:11:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Some of these. I just I was on vacation last week and I said this at the beginning of the show Kanish Twitter. I'm dying here. Twitter gave me the for you tab instead of following one day and I'm scrolling through. I'm like what the fuck is all of this Like? And I just started bookmarking these. It was crazy. 

01:11:33
But we'll start it here with Joe DeLera. Joe DeLera, nba writer. I didn't even know he worked for Action Network. I'm not picking on the Action Network people. I swear to God, people. This got filtered to me. 

01:11:47
Just total BS that FanDuel is now boosting this when LeBron is saying he won't be playing much. Today. Fanduel had a boost for the NBA All-Star game LeBron James to score 20 plus points. They went from minus 130 to plus 150. Lebron arrives at the All-Star game, says he has an injured ankle. He's not going to be playing the entire game for sure. This guy thinks it's total BS that FanDuel is now boosting this. A reminder to everyone out there you are responsible for the bets that you place. Not every boost in the history of bet boosts is a good boost. Not every boost is going to be a good boost. Sometimes there's going to be information that comes out after the fact where you have a shit bet and you're stuck on one, live with it, deal with it it you click the button yourself. Credit to this sports book. They actually removed the boost after this information. Oh, did they? They did I can't. 

01:12:43 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
there's a, there's a part of me that, like I know, loved it of like, uh, like, where it's like you know, as a player, you like taking shots, but this is like the book taking a shot back. It's like, oh, we got this report. Hey, let's boost up LeBron here and see how many suckers we can get to take the plus 150. He didn't really mind it, to be honest with you. I mean, what's the max you can usually bet on, unless it's 50, 100. 

01:13:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right right. 

01:13:13 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
So but yeah, I thought it was a little crafty, to be honest with you. 

01:13:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, the reality is they had no frigging clue. Like here's the thing. You know what this leads to. This leads to the next conversation of like Vegas knew, vegas knew scripted, they're out to freeze you, it's all in bed together. 

01:13:32 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, new scripted they're, they're out to everyone's. All in bed together. Yeah, it just goes. Everybody's got their cloak on at the the meeting saying how can we screw the, the joe, the joe delera out there today, baby? 

01:13:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yep it. It all goes back to that justin herbert boost, which was justin herbert, one or more touchdowns on a monday night football game which was like boosted to three to one or something absurd, and he never threw the touchdown. And it all goes back to that. Listen, it was up there. The news came out, they pulled it down. What are you going to do? Shit happens. You're responsible for the bets you place. End of story. I'll tell you what you could do Read more books. You could read more books. You could read more. You could read more books. That is. That is definitely would suffice. All right. Next one on the board here? Uh, all right, what do we got here? This was a. This was a late entry into the party here. I missed this one. I could barely read it. 

01:14:23
Um benson, circa, our buddy, uh posts a line on purdue or w Wisconsin to win the college basketball championship. No is minus 330. And he gets quote tweeted by some goof here who says specifically that's funny. I just talked about this last week and yesterday and said there's no way Purdue or UConn win it this year. Minus 330 is a lock. But I don't play odds like that, even though it's free money. This is a like put this't play odds like that, even though it's free money. This is a match Like put this one in the Louvre, Hang it like next to the Mona Lisa. Minus 330 is a lock, but I don't play odds like that, even though it's free money. 

01:15:07 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
And he was the number one rated service by Las Vegas Journal. Also, do you notice? He's got some random capitalization in here in this tweet, like free on F is capitalized, yesterday is capitalized. This is quite a gem here. I don't play minus three as if it's like a blue horseshoe. You don't play free money. Let me tell you something. But go go down the street and see feds at fremont, because he just laid minus 4 000 on. 

01:15:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
uh, you know one of these teams to beat like a mid-major this week this is the equivalent like first of all, if you, if you're throwing around the l word, which I hate, lock, by the way and you're saying things are free money. This is the equivalent of somebody saying, like you flip a coin, if you get heads or tails, you win, but you gotta pay minus 1,000 and you're like, nah, it's too, it's too steep. Both outcomes a winner, free money. I know it's free money, but I'm not doing a thousand to win a hundred. Like no chance. I don't know where. I don't know where these. This was, I don't. Whoever sent this to me was a late addition. Appreciate those who get involved. Next one Zach. Oh, it's a non-sports related. One Leafs fan tosses another Leafs fan hat on the ice. Let's start this video right from the beginning Leaf on Leaf crime. I don't know if you saw this, but this is a Leaf game, austin. 

01:16:26
Matthews scores a hat trick. They're celebrating. This guy just grabs the hat of the guy in front of him. Started from the beginning one more time, zach. From the beginning, one more time. If we could get the music playing and everything, that would be actually even better, you fucking asshole. All right, this is non-sports betting related. I'm not a Kanisha. I don't know about you. When you go to sporting events, I like keep to myself. I don't celebrate in people's faces. I don't want to be the center of attention. If someone grabbed the hat off of my head and threw it on the ice, that person would be thrown onto the ice along with that, my hat. That just went there. This is like, at this point, we've gone too far as a culture where we're trying to get like good TikToks and Instagrams and stuff that it's like we don't even care anymore. 

01:17:37
That guy that got his hat thrown off the ice is a season ticket holder for the Leafs. He always wears these fedoras to the games. Different fedoras for different games. 

01:17:46 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Oh, so this guy is. I like purposely did it to this guy because he's a known Leafs fan. 

01:17:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know the whole story here, other than the guy that threw the hat didn't come back for the rest of the game. He left to get a beer. Go to the washroom. He didn't return. People like you got to draw the line somewhere, Don't? 

01:18:07 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
do stupid shit like that. I'm so conflicted here because the video is funny as shit. 

01:18:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's hilarious. 

01:18:13 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's such a funny video but at the same, like if you're gonna do it and do the video, like have a hundred bucks or something to give the guy and be like you know, like hey, we did it for a day after you stop taping, like give him some money for the hat here or something like that. But yeah, today it's a, it's a absolute dick move to the fullest here to uh throw it like the boss. The sombrero toss is pretty good, uh, but yeah, that uh man, that that would be like it tweets that tree, like videos that trigger. 

01:18:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I agree, that would be like instant, like you're in a fight there oh well, he's lucky this happened in toronto and the guy that he did it right like uh, you know 60 year old man or something like that, because he did that at at some other events and you know you do that in santa clara stadiums in the us. 

01:19:02 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
If you do that, uh, you might you might not be walking out of there this happened at a rate. 

01:19:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If this happened at a raiders 49ers game, you're dead half the stadium. 

01:19:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
There's a chance you're dead, or like a mexican, like la liga game or something like that. 

01:19:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You did you, you might be, you know your whole family would be wiped off the face of the earth. 

01:19:20 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It wouldn't just right, you right, yeah, yeah, so wouldn't recommend this outside of canada all right, zach. 

01:19:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
next one? All right, uh, this one I know specifically what it is Again, non-sports related triggered me hard. We need to see the original video here. From who is that? What's that? Jake Lucky? Yeah, okay, jake Lucky's a streamer, but anyways, this is the video and the audio will play right now. 

01:19:48 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Honey, I'm on stream and you're on speakerphone. I just wanted to tell you I got so many plants for my butterfly garden and it's going to be awesome, and I'm buying ladybugs like a whole bunch of them. 

01:20:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's great. Do you want to know why? Why. 

01:20:07 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Ladybugs. They kill off other insects, the ladybugs yeah, Wow, okay you're. Yeah, wow, okay, you're an idiot. Bye, jesus Christ. 

01:20:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's great honey. Okay, we can end it here. So this is the video. This is a guy doing live stream. He's playing what a Warzone or something like that Gets a call from his wife. She's doing a butterfly garden, buying some ladybbugs. He obviously doesn't give a shit. You know, I get it. Uh, vanessa Cade, canadian poker player. 

01:20:39
Back when I used to play a lot of low stakes cash games, practically every night I'd listen to guys complaining incessantly about their wives. I've never understood this like. If it's such a drag to talk to your partner and you see them as an annoying burden, what's the point? Let them go and find someone who will treat her like she is loved and important. Decent people don't act like this. This guy's setting a bad example for thousands of young viewers who will think it's cool to minimize and be dismissive of their partners. 

01:21:04
Feigning annoyance with someone you care about for the clout isn't actually cool. It makes you seem like a jerk, and I mean mostly the things he said after she hung up, where he rolled his eyes and like couldn't believe it. This one bothered me, okay, a lot. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know vanessa, kate, um, I don't know. Jake luck, don't know any. This is. This is not like a I want to turn this into like a political men versus women type of thing or whatever. Right there, there's not just because you find an imperfection with your partner or find an annoyance with your partner, spouse, significant other does not mean that you think that they are a drag on your life. Like this is the most extreme reaction to what was just like he was just like he was just like annoyed in real time, right, right, listen if you're like the life isn't the notebook, like you're not, every conversation you have with your significant other is not going to be. 

01:22:01 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
If anything, they're probably going to be more like that, like when you date someone or marry to someone, you're going to get in trouble with their skin. It's not like he said some like extremely graphic, horrific things, uh, or like that's I, I don't know, like I don't know if she's in a relationship, but uh, listen, if any, yeah, I don't I love. 

01:22:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I love my wife very much. There are many things that she does that annoy me. 

01:22:27 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This is just part of our, our life, our existence, this is you're with anybody for any amount of time, you're gonna find a number of things they do probably a lot of things they do that are annoying and listen. 

01:22:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's not pretend this doesn't happen the other way around either. Okay, I go out with my wife's wife's friends. They're like ah, rob, I heard you didn't stack the dishwasher properly. I'm like ah, here we go, go again. I'm going to hear about it because I didn't put, you know, I didn't load it to the. My wife talks more shit about me than I do about her, but at the end of the day, it does not affect our relationship. She's not a drag on my life. I think she's very important and I love her, and it doesn't make me not a decent person, because there are some things about her that I don't like and I might say them publicly Like. This is just egregious. I'm sitting on vacation, I'm on a lounge chair. 

01:23:21 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm reading this Back when I used to play a lot of low-stakes cash games, like you were probably at a table with eight men, like eight men and you, and like, when guys get get together, what's one thing you do? You bitch about your significant other. You get it out, it's good, it's therapeutic, exactly. You know you say, oh, I can't believe I had to. You know, take the trash out in two degrees because, uh, the bag was sitting there for a couple hours or something. Yeah, you get it, you get it out. But you were, you were there not not to be like, oh bro, you could only like it's, it's fine, she was there. But you realize the the environment you're sitting in of like you're, you're probably around a full table of dudes, uh, who are. You know, at some point uh gonna gonna be bitching a little about their wife listen at at some point in life it's. 

01:24:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not just even about your, your significant other you get. You want to get things off your chest, like when you're frustrated. Sometimes you cannot say things directly to someone because the reaction you're going to get so you vent about it in other spots. I use this podcast as a way to vent, sometimes about things. This is my platform. Sometimes it's going to be about Simon Hunter. Sometimes it's going to be about someone else. Sometimes it might be my wife that gets caught in the cross. It doesn't mean that I resent these people. Some cases I might, but like I had to include it. 

01:24:44
It is not betting related. I try to keep it to sports. I try to keep it to betting, but every now and then I see something that hits me the wrong way and this is I mean. I don't like this, I simply do. I think this is a gross exaggeration of what happened on this guy's war zone stream. All right, let's keep it moving. Wade's bets the old Wade's bets, uh, to JB the sharp. Interesting conversation here between JB the sharp and Wade's bets. Jb the sharp wants to know who are the who's, who in plus EV? I feel like I need a mentor to navigate where to begin and what to look for. I can watch all the YouTube videos, read all the articles I want, but I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing here. Well, jb-. 

01:25:29 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I agree with that, I agree with JB. Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm. 

01:25:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm curious, JB, check us out on Circles Off man. We got lots of educational videos. Just start from the beginning, roll right through, You'll figure it out. Anyways, Wade's Bets gives the quick response. Can I ask why do you care so much for plus EV? Thousands of cappers don't care about plus EV and profit a crazy amount. Probably incorrect. Plus EV more times than not forces you to take 10, 15, 20 picks a day. That is completely unnecessary for massive profits. You know. You know there's so many people out there Kanish that they're so certain they have this stuff figured out. 

01:26:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I know. 

01:26:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, many and this guy Wade. Positive expected value does not force you to take 10, 15, 20 picks a day. 

01:26:26 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
You can bet whatever you want to bet All plus EV means If you did, you'd want to, exactly Because if you actually have the expected value on that many picks, you'd want to bet them. No, no, like no, no. I've only got value on 20 plays. I'm only going to bet five because Wade told me I want massive profits. It's unnecessary. Why would I bet all the with the edges I have, when I could, you know, bet 10 of them? 

01:26:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
or or why? Why even bet edges at all? I know thousands of cappers that they don't even bet edges. 

01:27:02 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I was gonna profit a crazy amount have wade sent me a link of his list of cappers. 

01:27:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't have to worry about EV anymore and I'm a massive I don't know, man, I don't know how this stuff just keeps on existing 2,832 views there for Wade's bets. Congratulations, wade, on that one. Next one to our good friend George Riley Panagakis, who we've now added to our good friend. Uh, george riley panagakis. Uh, who we've now hit, we've now added to our soundboard. Uh, we got a few fucking kidding me. 

01:27:39 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I lost 8700 oh, this is. 

01:27:42 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This is the comeback player of the year. I, I remember. Okay, now I'm with you. 

01:27:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is uh yeah, you don't know, you don't, you're not in on the grp. Grp is like he's all the talk nowadays but no, I I follow where like. 

01:27:55 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I caught up on this because I I had a big position on comeback clear of the year and he had. 

01:27:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The whole market is cornered and everything he cornered the market uh, unfortunately, the wrong corner of the of the market. I would say, uh, honestly feel bad that he lost, but the video that he did capture in real time. 

01:28:13 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Are you fucking? 

01:28:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
kidding me as soon as Flacco was announced is too good. This tweet really bothered me for one specific reason December 17th, my entire life is different. 

01:28:27
Bears are up 10 at the Cleveland. Bears are up 10 at Cleveland. Fourth and one at midfield. With 10 minutes to go, fields rolls out to the right, tries to run for just one yard, but a defender sticks out his arm and Fields goes down. 

01:28:38
If he makes this play, I believe my entire life is different right now. I remember this play vividly because I had wagered on this game. Vividly, remember this play. Do you know how many plays in my life? I can say that if something else happened on that play, my life would be different. Right, like this is sports betting. You could go through that Cleveland and Chicago game and you could find, like, if, if this was such a high leverage game for you, you can find 20 things that happened in that game that were life-altering plays. As with anything, whenever you can win a big amount of money, this is sports betting. Now, it sucks that he had to lose it, but, kanish, how many times have you watched a game where you have a lot of money and you're like, well, if they only didn't call that holding penalty on that third down. Like I'm looking great here? Like this is sports. This is what we do. 

01:29:41 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This is, this is betting didn't he post, uh, like a notepad breakdown of what he had bet on this too, like on the award itself? And again, I know different amounts of money are different to different people, but my entire life is different right now. If you had won like $5,000, like another $5,000, you had $10,000 more than you did, I mean. 

01:30:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So he's under the impression again there's false assumptions built in here because he's under the impression that if Cleveland doesn't win that game, joe Flacco doesn't get the MVP, but Baker Mayfield does. Because if Baker Mayfield Comeback player of the year, oh sorry, not MVP, comeback player of the year, thank you Zach Because if Baker does, he wins, like a couple hundred K, he can buy himself a new car. But there's another assumption built in here that you know Flacco doesn't win, it's going to Baker. It was DeMar, didn't DeMar Hamlin finish second in the voting? I'm pretty sure he did. 

01:30:44 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, and a lot of national publicity would be good, I didn't even see that. 

01:30:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean the national public listen. 

01:30:56 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It would be nice, but yeah, if Flacco doesn't win, DeMar Hamlin would have won Mayfield. When you looked at the voting, Mayfield wasn't even close. 

01:31:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it was. Anyways, I actually like GRP, but that one was that was submitted multiple times and I also noticed that. And what are you going to do? Life goes on. 

01:31:19 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Life goes on, George. 

01:31:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We'll get them next year, bud. Okay, we can skip over the spank. We talked about the customer service agents. We can skip this one. 

01:31:31 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This got me. 

01:31:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This was submitted actually to me as an image because apparently it has been deleted which was posted and deleted by Steven Golden at GB Pickham. I think I've had interactions with this person before. I'll have to search. When you see a line with minus 105 attached to it, I'd recommend waiting for a better line. When you see a minus 120 attached to a number, it's likely to become a worse number. Understanding timing matters with your numbers, Know when to bet now and know when to wait. Great advice, Kanish. Do you agree? 

01:32:11 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I read this I had to read this three times and like, just in my head, be like what the fuck is this guy talking about? Like what would you have possibly gone through your head to think, like, to hit submit on this one and think that it goes back to whatever wade said, where, like, people are, like I got it all figured out, baby. Like what, what could you have? Like when you see a minus 105 no wait, you don't want the like, just principle of the first two sentences. But when you see that extra 15 cents minus 120, I think I kind of get where it's. Like if you see a three and a half minus 120, might be moving to three or like the point he's trying to get it across, but it's so stupidly worded that, like you could not make sense. And that might not even be, maybe it doesn't, but like what? Like there's not near enough context to make this make any sense. 

01:33:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, the first two sentences could or should just be deleted and like yeah, understanding timing matters with your numbers. Absolutely no one to bet now and when to wait, sure that all matters. But like creating these dumb, like blind rules in sports. I never understood these people like it's not, it's not just this one from steven, it's like the people that are like when you bet baseball, don't lay more than minus 160, like this pick some arbitrary data point from the past 20 years where it's like, well, if you bet every team that's more than minus 160, you, you lost money. 

01:33:42
It's like guess what, I'm not betting every team, I'm betting one game where I think there's value on a team at minus 180. It's rules like this. It's like the number is the number. If you have an edge on that number and you believe it's an edge, then if you believe it's an edge, it means the market's likely gonna move towards your number. You might as well bet it. That's it All. Right. Later, steven Golden. Next one. Oh, we got another steven golden. Oh, yes, I I recall this one as well. This one was sent to me around. It exists. Uh, someone said I can't find your past results anywhere. You might want to start with. The results tab on the website could be a decent start. 

01:34:28 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Well, steven everybody knows those results. Let's check out. 

01:34:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Everybody knows those are legit well, I mean I mean, I'm going through this results tab right now, wouldn't you know it. Uh, nfl 20, 23, 24. Regular season up 53 units. Had the playoffs up 14. Uh, college football great season. Nba wow, plus 29 units. College they're up there too. Wnba winning, mlb winning, nhl up 15 units. Why don't we go? 

01:35:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
back to past years. 

01:35:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, I'm still scrolling. 

01:35:04 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I don't see a losing year. 

01:35:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I also don't see any plays associated with these, I just see lists of results. 

01:35:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That's not important when you're up that many units. 

01:35:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
baby MLB 2021, minus 11 units. Smart enough to sprinkle something in there. Lost MLB 2019 too. Wow, look at this, Maybe. 

01:35:24 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
MLB's just not a sport. 

01:35:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Maybe that was the year Zalbert lost too, matt Zalbert, but it was a different game. It was a different game that year, so we got to take it off the record. Listen, this is a joke. This is what I'm getting at A results tab. Are you kidding me? Like I can't find your past results anywhere, you direct them to the results tab of the website. That is just a list of a cumulative result. Get out like. Get out of luck. 

01:35:48
Anyone this is not particular to Steven Anyone who ever sends you to a site that looks like this, where it's just results listed, no plays, no verification, no, like I posted on pick watch and on bet stamp and on whatever and on whatever. It's just this, not even a Google sheet, it's just results. Avoid them. Google sheet, it's just results. Avoid them. I'm not saying that they're guaranteed to be a loser, just avoid them, though. It doesn't matter. This has not proven anything to you. 

01:36:21
Final one All right, our friend Matt Zalbert. This very combination right here Bananas and marinara sauce, with the very nice emoji. You trust this, this line, but you trust me with my over-unders and documented track record of accuracy. You can trust me for rare food advice as well. This, this is delightful. Wow, caps locked. Let's see this full image, zach, right here, of this banana dipped in this marinara sauce. Listen, I'm a judgmental person. I've tried to get better at this over the course of my life. I don't want to judge. You know, we know about we know in life there are specific combinations that work Peanut butter and jelly, right Bread and butter, coffee and cream, fish and chips spread investor and going broke and using people's money to pay his debts when he runs pools. Wine and cheese Spread investor and copying Ken Barkley's overnight plays. You know all sorts of great combinations. Could we have possibly uncovered one in banana and sauce? 

01:37:50
And marinara, marinara sauce. I have a banana here. I I had to. I had to go to local grocery store. It's not I don't want people to call me out here it's. It's not the ripest of bananas, still a little green but, uh, mostly yellow. Where'd you pick up your marinara? 

01:38:10 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
uh a little at the local kroger baby. A little uh, a little, uh, you know, uh, I don't even know remember what brand it was yep I uh, I think it was the kroger brand. 

01:38:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I got the cheapest one I ordered some pizzaiolo for lunch today, a couple slices and, uh, with some marinara sauce as well. I'm gonna crack it, crack this open. Got a fresh crack there as well. So what's the deal here? Do we just dip in it or we try to scoop? What do you think is going to work best? 

01:38:40 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I mean he's got a lot on that banana in that picture, like I mean it's a striking amount of sauce he's going with there. I don't know if I'm gonna go to that level with this. I think I'm gonna go. He's got the scoop working though all right. 

01:38:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, let's, let's, let's do it. Uh, I'll get my dip prepared. This banana is gonna break, though, like that's the problem with the banana is a vessel it doesn't like hold up to. I'm gonna rip off a rip off a piece of banana here. This is. I haven't, you know, I didn, I didn't think this through all that much. Banana marinara, let's do it. Cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers. 

01:39:23 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Mmm, mmm. 

01:39:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I can't believe it, I mean His face. You know, I thought this was going to be bad. What's fucking wrong with this guy? I thought this was going to be bad. Uh-oh, are you on board? No, no, what I was going to is about. This is about 10, 10 to 15 times worse than I thought it would be. This is fucking disgusting yeah, I don't it's it. 

01:40:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It is the like flavors that shouldn't go together ever, no, no, the tomato base with the bananas like the worst, yeah, no humans have been eating, eating food for thousands of years. 

01:40:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think if this worked, chef Bobby, Flay would have found it already. Yeah, yeah yeah, chef Michael Simon or these Iron Chefs, they would have figured it out. Nobody's figured out the banana marinara combo yet, because it's fucking disgusting is why. 

01:40:29 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Can I give that a try? 

01:40:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, go for it here. Here's some leftover banana. 

01:40:33 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, that. Come around here, yeah, I can't believe how much he's got on that fucking banana. Like he like dunked half the. 

01:40:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, Zach's going to give it a go here. I'm just going to eat the rest of it. This banana is actually good. 

01:40:53 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I was going to say the banana itself. 

01:40:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it's gross. Man, I have a bad taste in my mouth now. I don't like marinara sauce. To begin with it's like a bit like I'm Italian. Right, marinara is not kind of like a slap in the face to good tomato sauce, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyways, I we could say we tried it now and and matt zalbert is certified, it's like everything else, zilbert, does you gotta fade it? 

01:41:21
you gotta. It's not good. And if someone tries to tell me it's because this banana wasn't ripened, this is a damn good banana I'm eating right now. This is this is like it's not 10 out of 10. I'm gonna eat this whole banana. This is a like it's not 10 out of 10. I'm gonna eat this whole banana. This is a. This is at least an eight out of 10. Tasty banana. That sauce man, that rattled me hard. I don't even know how to do the rest of the show now. Oh my God, all I have to drink here. I finished my water. All I have left is coffee, and it's a pistachio latte. Imagine, following up, that I'm going to have toara banana, marinara, pistachio latte. What a dream. All right, that concludes tweets that trigger us. Uh, before we get into our closing questions here, you may have noticed new addition to the studio here. This is a uh, framed chromax golf ball. That is from when I defeated rufus peabody. Oh, mini golf it has been for you. 

01:42:19 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Did you send it off for for, uh, or just buy one of those and put it in no, no, that's. 

01:42:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's the ball I used. 

01:42:25 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That's what I'm saying that's what I didn't know. If you like, sent it off to get like, uh, you know, like officially commemorized in the one of those things are you? 

01:42:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
but but I still have the two losing balls as well, but those will never see the light of day I was able to get it. 

01:42:38 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I was backing you that day. Uh, I was able. I remember I was. I had a good chunk uh on, on me that day yeah, yeah, I don't, yeah, that was when we did the stream together good chunk in terms of putt putt like I may not. In terms of being able to get down on a putt-putt between two people. I know. 

01:42:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I will say this we got the World Putting League Survivor Series coming up. Two events February 26th, which is next Monday, and March 4th, both of them at 1 pm Eastern time. The finals is on April 2nd. The way that this thing is going to work with the pros is they got two groups of six. They're going to play. The winners of those groups go on to the finals, and two wild cards. The next two best scores go on to the finals as well. So set your calendars. First one is on Monday, february 26th, 1 pm. You can check those over on the hammer hq, on youtube, uh, or on the world putting leaguecom. So that's back in business and that is going to be permanently stored in the studio now as an ode to, uh, my fantastic putting skills. 

01:43:42
Um, you got a plus ev or minus ev. Move of the week. Knish move of the week yeah, plus you, ever. You don't listen to podcast anymore, or what? Plus ev, minus ev. We do this every week. It's a regular staple on the show. Move of the week yeah, plus, you don't listen to the podcast anymore, or what? Plus EB, minus EB? We do this every week. It's a regular staple on the show he's looking for a play. 

01:43:59 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Right now he's looking for a bet. 

01:44:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Hold on, hold on, hold on hold on. It could be anything real life Life advice. Are we actually getting this out there Tomorrow 4 pm? 

01:44:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
you don't have to give a pick. It could be any advice. Oh, not telling you to give out a random pick. 

01:44:17 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I was looking on some overnights to see what I've met for uh, to see what's in there for I appreciate the support that you've been giving us for circles off. 

01:44:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll repay that on. 

01:44:26 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Hit the books this year plus cb move of the week. I didn't you just put that in. I tell you, plus cv move of the week is uh, you know, maybe maybe 2x in the podcast speed of uh, you know, and missing a few things there. So, uh, yeah, no, plus cv, uh, move it. Let me hear yours first, then I'll get, I'll give you one okay, I got a couple minus cv move of the week. 

01:44:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I just figured it out. I was gonna do something else, but it's this whatever this banana, marinara. Don't do stupid shit with food. Like, honestly speaking, you didn't figure something you didn't reinvent. Like people are trying these crazy things nowadays for attention. I mean, zalbert forgot me to eat a fucking banana with marinara sauce. Don't do stupid shit like that. Another move of the week I guess it could be plus EV or minus EV, depends on which way you want to look at it. I'm recently on vacation in Jamaica. I like to take a trip to the lobby washroom every day. You know, I have my coffee, things brew. I don't want to do that in my room, you know, with the. You know, you know how. In my own, in my home, I have my own washroom that I use for my business. I like to use the lobby washroom. Now, the thing about some of these resort washrooms is they're not like regular stalls, public stalls. They're like their own room. You stall like it's a door, you open it in, you go in it's nice. 

01:45:47
So I'm in the lobby washroom and I don't have to. You know, I'm just. I just got to pee that morning and I'm taking a leak and all of a sudden one of the stall doors behind me opens up and you know I'm still leaking. But I can hear some feet shuffling. And I just turn over my right shoulder and I see a guy waddling bare-assed pants around his knees into the stall next to him and he goes in and locks the door there. Now I don't know what happened, but I can only presume one thing happened, and this is a grave mistake. 

01:46:22
If you're going to use a public washroom, the first thing you do when you go in is check that there's toilet paper, always the first move. You can do this by first using the toilet paper to create a little bird's nest on the toilet seat, which I like to do. I'm not a fan of my ass touching you know the ass of where someone else has been, so I do like the little bird's nest of toilet paper and that way you know there's toilet paper there and that way you don't have to waddle over bare assed to another stall Because this guy probably sat there like sweating. He knows he's got no toilet paper, just took a shit. He's there and he's like do I yell out? Do I wait till I think the washroom's empty, which he presumably did. 

01:47:09
I was very quiet, I was the only person in there. He thought it was empty. He opened the door, he realized it wasn't, but he also probably had the inner debate of do I pull my shorts up and like risk, you know, getting like shit on my swimsuit or whatever it was wearing, or do I just go over bare ass? You don't want to get yourself in these situations. So, public restrooms, first and foremost. Before you close that door, just do a quick check. Make sure there's toilet paper if you're planning on, uh, on a number two, because you could get yourself into some some really bad situations if you don't. So that's, uh, some of my advice of the week. 

01:47:48 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm not giving out overnight bets like like knishes no, I was gonna say listen, I was going to say this. I was going to. You had me on a couple of of NBA stuff here that you know. I'm looking at the screen. That's it. Let's, we'll go plus. Cv life move of the week. Do you guys have tropical smoothies place in Canada? 

01:48:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Would we say that like booster juice like booster juice. 

01:48:13 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, booster juice would be the closest I would say okay, they came out with these new bowls like legit, like the whole. I gotta call the what they're called like I saw you would. 

01:48:25
Actually there's a call side tropical smoothie and so, and they're everywhere in the us, like legitimately everywhere, so this isn't like a michigan thing, they're all over the place. These tropic bowls, I am telling you they got a couple of different like they got like a mixed berry, they got a chia oatmeal. These bowls are incredible, incredible, and I don't think the food at tropical smoothie overall is like the greatest. But I am telling, yeah, I don't know if you can see it, but like, if you just go to Tropical Smoothie, try our new Tropic Bowl. 

01:48:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Were you getting paid in perpetuity from these guys? I tell you what. This is the best advertisement these guys ever got. 

01:49:04 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
If Tropical Smoothie wants to sponsor Hit the Books and just pay us in free Tropical Smoothie bowls all year, I will eat one alive for every show this season. They are incredible. I've gotten them since they came out. I've gotten like four to five a week in, like the last couple weeks. So huge plus EV move, love them. Maybe a future sponsor of Hit the Books, if Jesus loves me, because I would love nothing more than some free bowls. 

01:49:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What if they release a banana marinara smoothie? 

01:49:43 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I mean as long as I'm getting the free. If they want to go the Zilbo route and sponsor whatever he's doing, then if they want to go the right route, get the books or circles off and get us some bowls here. 

01:49:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There we go. Zach, you got something for this week. 

01:50:00 - Zack Phillips (Other)
No, actually I don't. I don't have anything right now. What a fantastic end to this week. Zach, sorry, first we have Kniss. 

01:50:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He doesn't even know we do this segment, even though we've been doing it since, like I don't know, six months ago, and yeah, you know what that's gonna do it. 

01:50:16 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I don't know what to tell you. 

01:50:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's gonna do it for Circles Off, episode number 142. If you think a banana and marinara is fucking disgusting, smash that like button down below. Also, leave some comments with what other disgusting stuff? Because we'll try anything on this show for views. That's what my life has become at this point. And, of course, if you're in Canada, make sure you check out Pinnacle Sportsbook. Use code HAMMER to sign up. One of the best sportsbooks in business, 25 years established book. They give you limits. They treat you with respect. They're not banning you and kicking you out. Bet whatever you want at Pinnacle Sportsbook. Once again, reminder for Monday 1 pm Eastern time, it's the World Putting League at the Hammer HQ and the worldputtingleaguecom. For myself, Rob Pizzola. For our guest today, Joey Kanish. For Zach Phillips who's running the show, as usual. This has been Circles Off, episode number 142. Make sure you're subbed here on the Circles Off YouTube channel and we'll catch everyone again next week. Youtube channel. And we'll catch everyone again next week, Peace out.