00:00 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
It's weird because you can also pay your bills at the same place where you bet. Sounds a little bit strange, like a little bit of a contradiction there in some ways. 

00:10 - Zack Phillips (Other)
But yeah, you can pay your electric bill and fire a parlay on a soccer game or whatever. 

00:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Come on, let's go Welcome to Circles Off, episode number 151. Right here, part of the Hammer Betting Network presented by Pinnacle Sportsbook, I am Rob Pizzola, joined byny from betstamp after a couple weeks off. 

00:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Pose good we're in, we're in business. Yeah, we're back. Toe injury no, I'm just kidding. Uh, yeah, it was good. Um, I listened to uh a controversial episode. I feel like you got guy came at you hard. Fellow ont, ontarian the godfather, oh the godfather. 

00:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, I saw that For context. Anyone that doesn't know and doesn't watch every episode. You should watch every episode, by the way, if you haven't, but if you didn't, a few episodes ago, I put out my list of follows on gambling. Twitter Must follows or people you should follow, and I let Joey Knish give his list of people you should follow, and I let Joey Kanish give his list of people not to follow the worst follows and he gave our friend. I'll call him a friend. I love the guy. I think he's great. Zach walked by him on the street the other day. 

01:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, Pisky pauses. Did he scrap you or no? After the episode. 

01:18 - Zack Phillips (Other)
No, it was the day we recorded the episode. I was leaving the office going home. I was on the phone with someone, though, so I didn't say hi to him. 

01:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's a good guy, nice guy, yeah, he's a great dude, but um, uh, he does a podcast with um, an acquaintance of his who goes by the godfather Ben, and uh, that guy was not happy, not only with Kanish, but he w he like, was really upset with me. He's like, and that host, he can, like, he can, you could tell him where to go, right, I don't know. I thought it was very impartial. I said to knish I'm like I understand why people feel that way. I like the guy, I don't have a problem with him. I don't know, man, I got, I got caught in the middle of the cross, he's like I got some suspicions about those guys I'm like am in this. 

02:02
Now I don't even know if I'm in this now I want to know what the suspicions are, though I don't know. That guy lives not far from me. He's where I grew up, basically. Rob's going to Is that a threat Coming through. I see you, Ben. No, like I'm just saying, I thought the fellow Paisans were supposed to stick together. You know what I'm saying? That's what. 

02:23
I thought was supposed to happen. It is what it is. That was very uh, that was very out of nowhere. But uh, whatever, such is life. You produce content, there's gonna be people people that love it, there's gonna be people that hate it. 

02:34
Sometimes people feel offended. I can, I understand, like if I was put on like the worst follows, the worst twitter follows list by someone else depends on who it is it might really bother me. If that was the case, it might also have no impact on me, so I get it. But I feel like I got caught in the crossfire there and it's all Kanisha's fault, per usual. Per usual. But I've been enjoying some playoffs and you know, I put it out there the other day like I love playoff hockey on Twitter, which I do, and some people were like, responding to me and they're like, oh no, love playoff hockey on twitter, which I do. And some people were responding to me and they're like, oh no, like playoff hockey is great but like nfl is better, or major league baseball playoffs or whatever. I don't think so, man. No, like I'm a canadian guy, nfl playoffs I love the nfl, nfl is my favorite league, but like half the games are duds every year in the playoffs like how are you gonna say the nfl playoffs are the best? 

03:24
they're like. 

03:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
They're not even close to the best but it's, every game's a game seven though yeah, but the sheer. 

03:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But there's so many blowouts like it's yeah, but every game's a game seven. 

03:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Sudden death every game's game seven. 

03:37 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Think about that yeah, but like the way that the game is played, that everything about playoff hockey feels so much different it's a different every hit. 

03:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It is significantly different than regular season it's just so much energy and everything. 

03:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And it's not only that, it's just, it's the game of hockey right like and this is no, there's people who love the nba. I'm not shitting on the nba, I actually really enjoy watching the nba playoffs, but later in the playoffs, because in the going you just don't get too many good games. 

04:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We have minus 10,000 series favorites. 

04:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you like in hockey blue horseshoe because because the the of the way that the game is played in the playoffs and because of the fact that there's so few scoring events, there's just more variants. Like any team could legitimately win in the NHL in a series and and and doesn't feel like that way in the NBA. It just feels like I'll turn on an NBA game. It's intense, it's fine, but like you just know inevitably which team is going to win the game. I guess that's why you bet. You bet the point spread and the total and the props and you make it more interesting, but it doesn't really get great, in my opinion, until later on Baseball playoffs, playoffs. I do love baseball playoffs. It's also a different game. It's more high but it's a little bit slower. Generally you get a lot of pitching changes slows the game down. I to me, the hockey playoffs are the best man it's a good. 

04:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's a good rep when the leafs are winning rounds winning rounds. 

05:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Winning rounds by the time this episode goes live, the game three will have been played. 

05:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Personally, I'd say we're up 2-1. Yeah, I have a good track record on this show. You fucking stink at home, man. We're up 2-1. 

05:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will go on the record saying one of these teams will be up 2-1 by the time this episode airs. 

05:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
When you are listening right now, the Leafs are up 2-1. Do you remember the last time we did it? Yeah, I called the exact Super Bowl. You called the Super Bowl and including a dog. 

05:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, you put me on the spot for who's going to win the Super Bowl. I said San Fran because I gave, like the, this was before the championship games. 

05:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, San Fran versus Green Bay San. 

05:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Fran was the most likely to win their game, so I picked San Fran. And then you, kc was a dog. Kc was a dog. You picked KC yeah. 

05:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We called the. 

05:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Super Bowl man. People don't know. I don't know that a lot of people realize what happened there. 

05:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, yeah, it doesn't matter. The real ones know, real ones know. 

06:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One guy commented Anyways, we got an amazing guest this week. But speaking of the real ones, no, the real ones, no To play at Pinnacle Sportsbook, the world's greatest sportsbook available to bettors across Canada. Find out what pro bettors have known for decades Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. Johnny reps the hat because it looks good. Sick brand, but we enjoy it. Honestly. Versatile sportsbook for any type of better. Whether you're serious, recreational, you should always be looking to bet into low margins. Pinnacle does that. Great customer support Limits are posted on screen. Tons of great stuff. So check out Pinnacle in Canada. Use code HAMMER to sign up, as it does. Support us here. On Circles Off, you must be 19 plus, not available in the US. And, as always, please play responsibly. 

06:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
One more thing about Penny. A lot of people are. You know. I've seen some stuff misconceptions like Pinnacle's only for the major markets Back in the day. Yeah, you got us Back in the day. Penny was only for the major markets. Right now, if you haven't checked it out in the last couple years, go check it out. Sight is completely revamped in terms of the offering. So not only can you bet big money same limit on all the alternates, which all you got to do is click the drop down and you can bet all those alternate spreads anyways, like you can on, you know, fanduel, draftkings and those books. But in addition to that, pinnacle actually has a lot of props. Now. Before they used to just do a couple of major players. Go take a look for NBA playoffs. They got a bunch. Now we're in business. If you want offering Penny much improved. 

07:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Go check it out again. And one thing to add to that, while we're doing the promo, which I think is important, I see this around this time of year a lot. You got NBA playoffs, nhl playoffs. People love to put in parlays on a nightly basis. I'm going to pick all four games and parlay them. Okay, go to your sportsbook, put in that parlay, then go over to Pinnacle, put in that exact same parlay and watch how much more it pays every single time, like again. It's fine if you only want to play parlays and you're betting recreationally, but why leave dollars on the table? So, even if you're going to do that over the course of playoffs, make sure you do check out pinnacle sportsbook. Our guest this week on circles off is a professional sports better based in columbia. He has recently worked for a large betting group known as snowstorm and now is betting on his own as well. You can follow him on twitter at bet with gringo. Gringo joins us this week on circles off. Gringo, how's it going? 

08:23 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
good, amazing, uh, to be here in Colombia. It's nice and warm. I'm from Pittsburgh originally, so I love the weather down here. 

08:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I have to start just by asking you about the Gringo handle or moniker. Typically speaking, Gringo kind of like a derogatory term towards white guys or non-Hispanic people. So you're a white guy. How did the, how did, how did the nickname come about and why do you keep going with it? 

08:47 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
They kind of just made it up for me when I was working for them. They were like we need to give you a name and they're like you live in Columbia, you bet, and you know people call me Ringo on the street because that's what I am. So it does have a little bit of a history, a negative history, but it is what it is. I'm not offended by it. 

09:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If it doesn't bother you, it's no issue. 

09:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Tell us a little bit about your start in betting. 

09:15 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Man, it goes back so long. I'm like 38 now but I was a pro poker player in my early. I dropped out of college to play poker as a pro. I had always bet sports. I hadn't taken it more seriously until kind of poker dried up. I'll admit to you now I could not win as a poker player anymore. It's much harder to win and I worked in the affiliate industry. You know I wrote a lot of content, I did some other podcasts but I had written, I done, I've done on on page seo and I always have written about sports and I've always bet on sports. So I've kind of taken it more seriously. The past 10 years or 15 years, rather than when I was younger, I was more focused on on poker but yeah, and I you know in pittsburgh there was uh, now it's legalized and everything but in pittsburgh there was a lot of bookies at the casino. 

10:06
You know it's the same circles, poker and sports. So that's just it kind of bled into um that with the affiliate um seo stuff? 

10:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
were you writing the articles before you started betting or did you start betting and then start doing the seo stuff afterwards? 

10:22 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I learned the seo and the. I learned the SEO and the optimization content optimization after I started betting. So, because that was, I had a full-time job and then it was part-time up to until a year and a half ago or two years ago because I was doing content for, you know, some offshore sports books and some affiliate websites and casino type stuff. So I learned that stuff after I started betting. 

10:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Interesting. Just curious before we get into your whole story and kind of the larger topic of working with a larger syndicate and how that works. You're based in Colombia. What does the betting market look like in South America? So obviously you're originally from Pittsburgh, you have a general idea of what it's like in North America. What are the main differences between the South American betting market and the North American betting market? 

11:15 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
It's becoming legalized and regulated here. It's an emerging market. I know people are trying to get into it. Colombia is a legalized, regulated market. Know people are trying to get into it. Colombia is a legalized, regulated market. Um, as far as other countries, I'm I'm not totally sure about the southern cones, but I know mexico is like regulated um, are there bookies that you could find here, like pph double he's probably. 

11:38
I've not really had to go down into that well yet because I still have some outs back home. But a good story is I have like a Venezuelan bookies that are like a PPH style. So and we don't really think they have much risk management because we don't know if it's like a front for something. But I have essentially, you know they in Venezuela. The Bolivias are useless, so they they use US dollars so you can interact and then you can bet from the United States because they're taking the market of like the Venezuelans living there betting and it's a popular PPH and so that's kind of like one connection I've made here with some Venezuelans that I know. So I have some Venezuelan betting accounts. 

12:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, In the US, the large majority of it is online betting people betting through their mobile phones. You know you have your kiosks, obviously, but it's a very, very small percentage of the overall handle state by state. Is that similar in in Colombia right now, or do you have more physical locations to go and bet at? 

12:42 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
There's quite a bit of physical locations to bet. Just going around I live in Medellin or medellin, colombia, and just going around medellin, uh, there's a lot of places to bet. You can see the signs and you can walk right up and um, it's weird because you can also pay your bills at the same place where you bet. Strange, like, like a little bit of a you know kind of contradiction there in some ways. 

13:01
But yeah, you can pay your electric bill and fire like a parlay on a on like a soccer game or whatever. So yeah, is it? 

13:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
how much are they taking at those places? 

13:10 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
not much, because you know it's, it's just not a it's a third world country like. In the end, there's people here living very well and if you're a gringo and you're earning dollars, you're obviously doing way better than but I mean, oh geez, the like a deposit bonus would be like 30 us or something, so it's not. You're not really getting a lot of high rolling type of people, but I'm not sure I mean I haven't really used them too much. 

13:33
I just kind of looked at them briefly because I still, you know, go with the ppa, asian, american and legals background. So but yeah, it is. 

13:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It exists here for sure why'd you uh, why'd you move to columbia? 

13:44 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
my old job had a lot of colombians uh working for them the affiliate job I had and they hired. They hired a lot of colombians who spoke amazing english and went to private schools and they told me hey, come visit medellin and come visit columbia. And I moved here um, maybe three, four years ago. I just loved it. It was just a great place to go. It's warm all the time. It's like the city of Eternal Spring, so it's always warm. 

14:08
I brought my dog from America here, so I just picked up my life and moved here and, yeah, if you buy property, I bought like an apartment outside the city and that's how I kind of got the visa and how I'm going to keep staying here. 

14:23 - Zack Phillips (Other)
But, yeah, that that's how I got the visa and how I'm going to keep staying here. That's why Columbia. 

14:25 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Columbia is great. It's not the 90s anymore. It's a lot safer and a lot more things to do. 

14:32 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I see a lot of gringos and families coming here. 

14:35 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
now it's improving a lot. 

14:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Not bad, not bad. We'll get back to betting for a bit here. You became involved, obviously, with a betting syndicate that Rob mentioned. Tell us that story. How did you actually start sports betting? What were you betting? How did it come to be? 

14:53 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I was an agent for them and I would get accounts and give them accounts. 

14:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't know if we want to go into that too much, because I think people kind of sort of know what that is or do you want me to kind of expand on that a little bit if it's different than the regular, like basically, how are you getting accounts and stuff? 

15:12 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
like that yeah, leave it at that, that's fine, yeah, and so I had always bet on my own and I had always gotten into betting, I mean it just becomes like a thing when I was 16 years old, like some bookie, let me bet on a new patriots game, and that's kind of like how it started, you know. 

15:26
And then just from there playing poker and with them, I was an agent. I was a good agent. I paid, you know, when it was time to settle on time, which is great. If you want to get into sports Like, pay your debts and be a decent person, that's the way to build a network is. Don't be a scumbag. So, you know, I person. That's the way to build a network is. Don't be a scumbag. So I was a good agent. They interviewed a lot of people. I knew the PPH as well. I knew the software of the skins and I knew the legals pretty well. So they interviewed a lot of people. They ended up hiring me to do sort of a trading job for them. 

16:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Nice. So what did that entail? If you want to kind of get into that, what is? 

16:05 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
so there's people that would send plays and then I would sort of put them in on the bot and would quote them. They're not how much they went their way. So you know, somebody says I want to bet the over in this game. I would put the play in and then I would say, okay, we got this, here's your portion. And there was other stuff. Like I knew the bot, I would do some behind the scenes stuff, um, but the thing is the story is like they eventually had let me go because it just became a lot more automated where when I first started working there two and a half years ago, it was like I was getting plays every Saturday, every Sunday, having to do them all. But you know, you can automate it so someone can log in and make the bet themselves. 

16:48
So if you have the human element, there's always going to be a delay in what you're doing, and I was not happy to lose my job there, but we're on good terms. I can still bet and we're good, but that's just the way it goes. It just became a more automated uh system. 

17:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Basically is how it went how much more of that do you see coming in the next few years in terms? I mean, obviously there's this huge ai push nowadays and we're seeing that uh ai is replacing a lot of regular people's jobs out there in the sports betting space. How much do you think that you know the manual regular uh person's job is eventually just gonna be automated going forward? Obviously you've already kind of been replaced in that sense. Can you think of other roles where those might just be obsolete going forward? 

17:34 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I think it's happening now. I don't think, though, that, like, if you have a bot, like you have to know what you're doing, like it automates your process, like for you to be able to bet more and have more outs and schleim shop, so it's not like you would just be essentially like rendered obsolete, so you still need to know what you're doing to and be able to bet and understand the markets. So I, but there's certain things that they do that it is automated entirely and, um, you know, there's no, you don't need to be there, you don't need a human to yeah, but there's programmers that do that, and there's other people. Well, I think that's obviously going to be coming more, but I still think, with the, with the people using like automated betting things, you just have to know what you're doing, and you can't use bots on every account. You can't use bots on legals, you can't use bots on a lot of PPHs, so the hand betting, in some ways, is making a little bit of a comeback, I think the past year. 

18:28
For me, because I have accounts, I can't bot. I can't you know what I mean. So I have to hand bet, or I have to have somebody help me hand bet. So it's not. I don't think it's going to be going away immediately, but who knows 10 years from now? I don't know what will happen in 10 years. 

18:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Automatic bets AI. 

18:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean it's probably headed that way at some point. The good thing about the betting industry now is a lot of the AI is built off of existing Google searches, other articles and you know it's learning from the stuff that's out there. The good thing about the betting industry is that the majority of the stuff that's out there is garbage, right. 

19:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So like Right now still, yeah, right now right now. 

19:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, like, if you ask Chad GPT, like, give me some strategies to win at betting, it'll give you some strategies not going to help you win at betting because it's pulling from other resources. Eventually that's going to turn over time. 

19:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But under other industries are just way ahead of of sports betting in terms of like education at this point yeah, the only way to win at betting sorry, the only way to win at betting is, honestly, grind hard and listen to this podcast I mean grind hard is a big part of it, man no, the podcast was more the podcast, the bigger part, bigger part a bigger part of circles off podcast, the biggest part but but grind hard. 

19:49 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I mean you know what I mean. 

19:49
Like I don't really want to stay here and say I'm a capper in the sense that, like I'm going out and trying to beat big market sports, I'm trying to like look for inefficiencies and miss the mistake lines. That's mostly what I do and that the way to do that is is have tons of outs, look at the screen and and grind it out and like that's really the way that I think people are trying to like look too much at I'm gonna bet this team to win that team and they want to be fancy about it like the touts do. But really like the small market stuff, if you find, if you find you know getting the best price in the world on a bet is on is not underrated, it's not. So I don't think people really think about that side of it. They think like what do I want to bet today? Versus like what can I find to bet today? Rather than having goals, I'm going to bet this or that. Just look at the board and see what you can find. I love that. 

20:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think that's really good advice. I mean, a lot of people cannot separate the ego, right, the sports fan ego, from just being able to find value. They want to have some sort of input over what they pick. But once you kind of learn, the space a lot better, like you're saying right now, I mean for sports I don't know anything about, I'm like I'm not going to try to handicap them. What's the point? I might as well just look for good bets, find good prices and just go from there. 

21:03 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
And they're wildly efficient in some cases. 

21:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, I watch the Pizza Buffet every week and you're starting it. 

21:09 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I don't have an edge right now, and you're right. 

21:11 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I don't, because these lines have been up all week. If you find an off-market line on Sunday, go for it. 

21:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, that's even better if you find it on Sunday. 

21:21 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Yeah, exactly yeah, it's even better on Sunday, and you, it's even better if you find it on Sunday. Yeah, exactly yeah, it's even better on Sunday and it's you know you can find them. Are you going to get down huge on them? It's harder, but that's really what it's about in the end is finding the inefficiencies. And for me, I'm not going to sit here and say like I capped some stuff, I bet some props I like, but it'd be able to beat, uh, the top the market making books. 

21:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
so yeah, the weird thing. You mentioned pizza buffet. For those that don't know, we have another channel here on the hammer betting network. It's called forward progress. It's where we house all our NFL content. 

22:00
I do a live Sunday morning show during NFL season called pizza buffetet. I'm only bringing this up, obviously, I'm bringing it up to plug the show. But on top of that as well, I think like the most fascinating thing about that show in particular is I could go on in the morning and say here's an off-market price here, go and bet that. Here's an off-market price here, go and bet that and whatever, and actually come up with real edges on the day of the game. But people don't want that. They literally just want to know what I think. Even if I say that I don't have an edge at this time, they would rather me like handicap the game and I'll tell them. I'm like I'm betting into Pinnacle's market right now. They're taking 100K on this side, you know, a hundred K, 50 K on the total, whatever. And people would still rather that than me. Come on and just get fire off like a dozen plus EV bets. 

22:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah bro, it's different, it's a different world, it's a different world. 

22:57 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
It's a lot of people just don't want to. Yeah, people, it's boring to just say I don't have an opinion, I just have an edge against the market and that's all. So you know what I mean. I think people don't really want to hear that, and that's what it takes to win for the most part. For somebody especially like me that's trying to just mostly find bad lines like that's the truth. That's what wins me out. 

23:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, it's just not glorious to say, oh, I like the ravens minus six, because, because the rest is at minus seven it's better to say I like the ravens because the run offense is going to be good versus run defense and this guy's out. And then people are like, oh yeah, okay, that makes sense. 

23:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But if you give out ravens minus six, that's a winner and minus seven and a half is a loser yeah, and also like the line shopping stuff is still very much lost on the majority of people, where you could say I like this team because the number is six and the market and they'll just go bet six and a half somewhere else because it's easily accessible to do them. So I mean we're still in the. I mean it's been a few years now, multiple years, of regulated sports betting. Eventually the general public is gonna get smarter, but we still have a lot of that happening in the space. 

24:05 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Yeah, most people just have one account and they bet what the line is at that account. You know, I wish it was different. I try to tell my buddies back home, like you know, I like it at this price, but it's like if you take it at 20 cents more it's not. It's not really good anymore. So, uh, or a different number? So yeah, exactly. 

24:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So when, when you uh, when you talk about your own betting you mentioned, obviously, most of what you do is you're trying to find, I guess, bad numbers. You call them. But what does the regular day look like? Are you like using odd screen? What are you doing? 

24:33 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I use Spank Odds and I want to say Dawn's Best. I don't really have an opinion on which one's better. I think they're both kind of good. 

24:42
Spank Odhouse is improving a smoker stuff on there, um yeah I look at the odd screen and, um, I wake up kind of early, like tennis I've played a lot of recently because there's you can find some off-market numbers there. Obviously, with football, you know, saturday, sunday, you gotta be at home like doing you do what you gotta do, um, so it just depends on what sports are available and and I do some NBA props and some NBA halftimes. Halftimes, I think are really one of the best things to bet Because, first of all, they've got to make a quick number and there could be something that they're not factoring in from the first half. Also, you can find more inefficiencies in that market Because if you have an odd screen, you can see Sometimes you get some big edges based on, you know, against Chris or Pinnacle. 

25:29
And, yeah, I think halftimes are really really great. Team totals, money lines, stuff like that I think are one of the best things to bet. That's the year I've had. This last month hasn't been so great, but the year I've had has been incredible because of betting halftimes so great, but the year I've had has been incredible because of betting half times. 

25:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So a lot of stuff at half times and team totals and things like that, how many hours you typically putting in over the course of a week right now man, it just depends on um during football season. 

25:55 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
It's like a lot because you're just, you're there, I just I make it a point like I'm there I'm like there's no there, there won't be another week three of the 2023 season, or whatever you know what I mean, so I justify it in my mind that you have to be there every Sunday, every Saturday um, I don't know 50, 60 hours during football season, probably like more closer to 30, 40 now. 

26:13
So but it just depends. It's like right now I have a friend visiting and I was at a soccer game last Sunday, so this is a little bit of a slower week, but yeah, I mean like a normal job, but during football more more hours, so yeah do you go through the same johnny? 

26:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
because I I think the exact same way. Like I cannot miss this nfl sunday, because what if it's the best sunday of the year for me? Like I literally won't do anything on a sunday during. 

26:38 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
That's how I am, I just feel like there's not going to be another week 15 of this year of our lord um nfl sunday, so I just have to be there and have to be able to play this stuff even if I don't get too many bets in, like you know, and I enjoy nfl I mean it's one, it's my favorite sport to watch, uh, and all that stuff. 

26:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So yeah, I feel the same way too I I like to not miss a sunday, but that's honestly doesn't really have to do with what you guys are saying. I just enjoy watching football on Sunday. It's genuinely one of the funnest things that I do. 

27:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

27:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And I know some people are probably thinking, wow, these guys are losers, that's the funnest stuff they do. But I mean, I'll take watching football on a Sunday with some buddies and having a bunch of bets, I'll take that over. I don't know if there's any other social rec activity, I'll take that over. 

27:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know if there's any other social rec activity, I would take that over To me. There's nothing better over the course of the year than watching a full slate of NFL red zone and winning money. 

27:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If you get that combination, I don't go red zone. We disagree there. 

27:37 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Red zone is the nuts. I agree with Rob Red zone is the nuts. 

27:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Red zone is awesome if you're. I don't want to. I don't want to chirp you guys, but red zone's awesome If you're. If you're broke, just get get more screens and put all the games on. 

27:51 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Then you get every game I have another game in the background, but I mostly go red zone. But yeah, to me the playoffs are underwhel cause it's just the whole slate. Sunday is the best. 

28:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It is awesome. It's awesome to get a full slate Sunday. And then the other best day is the just past the opening Thursday and Friday of March madness. Those are the two best like NFL Sunday and that is amazing. And occasionally you'll get a Saturday near like call it, October, where you got college football, MLB, maybe a couple playoff games and a big UFC card and then that'll be like top top five days of the year too. 

28:37 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
But you only get, you only get a couple of those. 

28:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You might get one. You make it one year, but no, yeah, those are. Those are awesome. But I mean, is it? Are we crazy for for wanting like? That's? The funnest thing you can do it for me is sit around, bet, watch games. Obviously, win money. If you win, money ends up being an amazing day. What else are you going to do? Go drink at the bar. Well, listen. 

28:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's other things I enjoy doing, but I think all three of us and producers, we're sports fans. We grew up on sports, we love sports. Nfl's my favorite To have all the games going on at once. The witching hour right. The red zone, your fourth quarter of all the early. Like I live for that stuff, that's my favorite hour of every single week during nfl season. 

29:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Nothing's going to compare to that. Yeah, I'll take that, I'll take that stuff. And then obviously you know it's the. It's the experience of the day too. Like you grab, you grab some food, you grab whatever. Like the day it's like in spurts. Right, you got the one for eastern time listeners, you got the one o'clockers, so you just sweat in the morning, get the bets in or whatever. Then you go one o'clockers, fire up a lunch. I don't know if you guys are like this, but I only start thinking about lunch, no matter what it is. On Sunday, I start thinking about lunch. At 1.06 pm, the game starts. I got all the games, I sit down, I'm like wow, what a day we're in for, Alright let's talk lunch, and then you start the air. 

30:07
And then you got the London game or the Say I don't like the Europe games. 

30:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I understand why they're doing them, but I have like this weird I win money on the NFL. I don't return a lot on the NFL, let's just call it. I do a decent amount of volume over the course of the year, return a little bit and it's fine. The thing that kills me about the European games is I have something mentally where I just don't want to be down before the one o'clock game starts, like it doesn't matter what it is and I should look. This is maybe more of a me problem, because I guess it's like being pessimistic instead of optimistic. If you have an edge on the European game, you should play the edge. But like and I do, but there's just something about sweating that game and like I don't really want to go into the one o'clock slate down today. Like I don't really want to go into the one o'clock slate down today. Like I don't want to start down one unit and have to be like clawing back for the rest of the day. 

30:59 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I don't know what that is. You could have slept through it in your mind. I could have just gotten up at 1030 or something. 

31:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Exactly or done something different instead. 

31:07 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
So yeah, there's the regret of betting in some ways there For sure. 

31:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
How does being like betting as part of a syndicate differ from when? What you're doing now, betting independently, like what? What are the advantages to what you're doing now? What are some of the challenges? 

31:24 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
walk us through how those days differ well, I still use the syndicate's system of placing bets, so I'm still betting through them. It's just you know you have accountability, like you can't be losing, you know. So it's like because you're playing for partners, so you have like accountability, you need to win. Um, if I'm losing on an account that I have myself, then I don't have many personal accounts because, you know, back home I burned them with, getting limited and stuff back in pennsylvania and my relatives and stuff. So I kind of have to be accountable to people when I'm betting on their accounts, kind of regardless of um that and in terms of the syndicate, like, yeah, you have to people are watching and seeing like hey, are you down a lot this week, are you winning? 

32:07
and if you're not winning consistently, then they're going to be like, hey, you got to get it together or you're going to be done. Uh, this is, it's a business. So yeah, and like legals, it's probably a little bit different. It's just I don't have tons of experience there, but lately because I'm not in, uh, but people give me legals and bet, do bets for me and stuff. So yeah, I just I don't deal with the side of like them them being limited, it's more. I just get back like you're good for this amount or whatever it is. So I'm not dealing with the keeping accounts alive much on the legal side at the moment anyway, on the syndicate front. 

32:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um, we don't. We don't really have haven't had too many people on before that have worked as part of larger groups. Most of them are like their own independent bettors. Uh, we did have the the ferris episode back in the day where he was getting accounts for different syndicates, and that went over well. 

32:59 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I know Ferris. Ferris actually worked with us before, so I knew Ferris actually. 

33:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That episode was a banger. 

33:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Shout out, ferris, he gave out three scenarios of different groups he worked with. He didn't name the names, but I knew very much so that one of them was Snowstorm. 

33:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think one of them was definitely People are going to rush back to his article now to try and guess. 

33:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, but that went over really well. So, when you're working as a part of a larger betting group, how do you guys go about managing the risk and ensuring responsible, responsible betting right? Is it presumably you have many people who are trying to bet things at once? Is it just about in your experience, is just about getting as much down as you possibly can in a short time frame, or is it more intricate that? Do people know what they're betting? Where there's overlap, how do you go about like responsible betting? 

33:55 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
um, I would say that like, first of all, there's a percentage that each bet takes on the account that when it's played, so it's you know you can run out of credit, but it's. You know there's certain times you want more credit for certain things versus. You know you're not. If there's a, if you want to hand bet something for more money, you can manually do that super real props is a good example of that. 

34:15
Like super real props, there's some huge edges sometimes um, I got some last year that were, and so you go in and you bet considerably more on that on every account possible. Normally it's just a small. Say, you have like a two uh account with two thousand credit. The probably the average bet would be like a hundred dollars. So you're gonna, and then every day that's going over and over. 

34:33
And as far as managing the credit and how many people are playing stuff, they're not a super high volume major sport group like. They're more low volume, higher roi, which is kind of the way that I want to bet. I probably bet more than some cappers in some senses, but they're more of uh, like a higher roi, lower volume type of bet. So there's not like mlb sides being put in. You know what I mean to to these, to these groups. This is there's this. This is lower, lower level stuff, stuff with the higher edges, not as much mainstream sports. So you're not going to see nba sides most of the time going in there, because I don't really know people that win at those. To be honest with you, but like, for instance, you're just gonna, you're gonna see maybe some totals, but it's gonna be more niche market type of stuff does that make it more challenging to keep the accounts over time? 

35:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
like do you find that you guys are constantly churning through accounts? 

35:32 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I feel that way because I um, I've had so many accounts with them and I'm as an agent and I've just run through them and yeah, it's hard. I mean, I think to some extent, trying to keep the account of what you play is is like it's. I think that's more of a legal discussion rather than a pph because, like what, what makes them close the account on pph you winning, so like if you're gonna win it's, it doesn't matter what you're betting, in the sense like you're not, we're not. Unless you're betting, like all these parlays or something, it's very obvious. But if you're winning consistently over and over again, you know you're going to lose the account. It's just going to happen. You're not gonna have. 

36:09
I don't have accounts I had years ago because I've won enough to not have them anymore. You know what I mean. So in that sense, it's just like there's. You know, I don't think if you're, if you're way up on the week and for instance, when I worked there, like they would be up a lot on the weekend and they would shut off the the bot on sunday and say like, oh, it's down for maintenance, but really, you know, it's like we don't want anyone to play anything. 

36:30
So, uh, yeah, that's, that's something that they would regularly do, um, because and also the other thing, you don't really want to see a bunch of props the last day of the, the, the book. He looks at the sheet, he sees all these props, he sees nfl props or whatever, which haven't been that great. Honestly, like you know, that's an edge that I we used to be amazing but now is really is not that good. But I'm saying, like, you don't want to see the last day a bunch of props or whatever the case may be. 

36:57
And if you're up a lot in the week collecting is important, so you don't have to run it up. There's a max win set on the account. You know what I mean, that you it should stop once it hits that number, and that's. You can say, like it's up to the account holder to tell that, hey, this is the ip address, this is the amount I want you to bet. I don't want these sports. And here's the max win, so that it's an automated, sophisticated system and there's a way. And they're definitely, you know um, for I've not worked for another one, but I've dealt with some ones and for me, like you know, they do a very good job with that at managing the accounts and managing the handicappers also like for me, for example. 

37:39
I remember I bet something in the storm was like that that's your biggest by the week and it's a small stage and I was like, dude, I'm doing so well this year, like why are you at me? But he was right. I mean, it was my biggest better week and it was like an ncaa side with like a like a 115 or 120 and I got like plus 100, so not a giant edge in the ncaa tournament on a second half bet. So my, my idea of stuff, the other stuff I was doing was much, much stronger and that ended up being a click that was much larger than the other stuff I was doing. 

38:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So, yeah, interesting any, um, I guess any other cool stories? I'll ask that first. Any other cool stories from working that, uh, you know, interesting for any listeners? 

38:17 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I mean it's just kind of a, it's a fun vibe. I kind of miss it in a lot of ways because of just like the atmosphere. I mean you're just sweating bets and watching stuff. It's cool. You get to meet up with agents. You know, in Vegas I had people come visit me in Colombia. So if you become a big enough agent you can make a good amount of money. 

38:36
I don't think I've ever paid them Like they've all. I've always made enough as a capper and then I have a good percentage on my accounts and stuff. So I've might've maybe paid them one time over two and a half years and it's pretty much just gone this direction. So if they're winning, you know and you're this direction. So if they're winning, you know and you're, and you'll be happy to pay them if you're collecting. But yeah I. It's just been a good experience overall for me, even now as just a capper like a, not an employee anymore, it's still pretty good, yeah roughly. 

39:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
How many cappers would a group like that have? 

39:09 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
oh, man, I want to say how many cappers probably 2030, it just depends on and they're not all active all year, you know and some people are playing like one thing a week, you know they're not playing, and some people don't play much at all. 

39:27
So it just these people have their specific niches that they're going after, and there's kind of like a little bit of a hierarchy between the cappers, because I know some of them, like we're not going to step on each other's toes in terms of, like, what you're doing, what I'm doing, like you know, you could still bet whatever you wanted, but just to be like to keep things civil. 

39:46
But yeah, you know. So, like there's, it just depends on how many are active and at the time and what sports are going on. But yeah, I would say I think 20, 30 would be a reasonable number. 

39:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, do they do the cappers uh place the bets themselves, or do they usually fired off? Yeah? 

40:02 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
they do, they actually have logins to the bot. That's why I kind of lost my job, because originally there was only like a few people that had access right, and now the people who are like okay, I want to bet something. We trust you know you can log in and bet it yourself. 

40:17
So it just makes it easier in that sense. So, yeah, you can log in and bet it yourself and it goes skin by skin, or it can go sport by sport, but you can do skin by skin, like specific on ace or mag or whatever. Whatever you want to do, you can just bet it like that. So, yeah, that's kind of that's why I say it's not really like it's going to win for you, because it's a bot. It's like it amplifies your abilities as a better to get down on things you can't get down on and be able to click something where you hit a lot of accounts at once. 

40:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So how important is the technology? 

40:53 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
it's super important. Important, I mean, if it's not, if, if it's not working, um, you know you can't bet, so it needs, it needs to work. I mean you can go in and hand bet it manually, but it's important that it works and it's and that you can tell them what you're getting down. And yeah, it's important. Definitely they have. They have a guy that does a lot of programming. He's like a whiz. He does a lot of automated stuff, which is a lot more common on PPH. So yeah, there's somebody there that's doing a lot of the tech and automated stuff. 

41:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
A lot of people listening to this podcast probably know what a bot is, but never used one before you say you have cappers using the bot themselves. Can you talk about like the simplicity, uh, or the process of actually using a bot to bet a play and specifically what that does? 

41:43 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I. I wish it was more complicated, but it's like if you've used a pph or sportsman account. It's very similar to that. It's like go in, find the bet, put it on the sheet, place it. There's sliders of how much you'd want to bet. You can see the accounts that are hit. What's happening is they're loading accounts into the bot. The bot is automatically logging into these accounts, sometimes with a delay, and then they are placing the bets, usually at the same time, and what that does is you know, if you had 100 accounts by yourself, you have to log into each one. You have to go find the bet. Yes, yes, but with this it goes and it hits them all immediately. 

42:20
So that's the big advantage of it. There can be problems. They can miss some accounts, some accounts can not have credit, some accounts can have the max win hit. So you when you click something, you don't always know how much you're going to. But usually with the stuff I'm betting, I just wanna get the max on whatever it is, because it's a prop or it's something. That's a little bit. I'm not betting like an NFL side into that. So that's kind of how it works. 

42:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What's the level of sophistication with the bot? So for PPHs, you're dealing with, let's say, hundreds of accounts that all have different credit limits. Do you have the ability to like, basically bet those in order of the accounts that have the most credit available, or anything like that. Is there that level of sophistication with a bot or not at that level yet? 

43:07 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Yeah, there is. You could do have a slider. If you want them to bet more, it's possible. If you want them to bet less, it's possible. Certain, wanted to bet less. It's possible. 

43:13
Certain sizes of bets, it'll take it if it's really like plus something, plus 700, it'll do a lesser amount generally speaking to to mat, to like match up with the max win on the account. So it is sophisticated because there's a whole like the big thing in pph is getting stiffed. I've been stiffed a lot, a lot, a lot. So, like you know, you have, you don't, you can't, you really don't want to go over that max win number and that that's important to the. It's especially important to your agents, to the people that are working with the syndicate, because if you win, if you win 10 000 from a bookie that has you have a two thousand dollar credit limit or something you know when you come to collect you you don't feel good. You might get paid but you're a little worried if that. 

43:54
If it, if you have to collect a huge number and you've said I don't want to win, you know too much. So I wish I could get like 100 accounts and win like 500 a week off of bookie or something. Just keep the number super. Not possible, obviously. But I hate even 2000. Now I'm like nervous, I think sometimes they're they're not gonna pay me. 

44:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So yeah, yeah. You hear a lot of bettors uh talk about what you just talked about, which is like getting stiff, not being able to collect uh the money. Um, in your case, does that come from uh? Whoever gave you the account typically say like just taking off, going silent. Or is it the actual bookie not willing to pay out on those bets? 

44:34 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I would say for me it's mostly the actual bookie not willing to pay out on those bets. I would say for me it's mostly the actual bookie that's just kind of gonna ghost, so yeah yeah I mean you can get someone that will vouch. You know, vouch both ways or whatever the case may be. But um, usually it's just no. 

44:48
The thing is, I understand the business. I understand I'm going to get sick. It's going to happen. It's it's like the life we chose like. If you want to bet with pphs, you want to be in this business like it's going to happen, what can you do to minimize it? Keep a lower Max win, you know um, and be on top of it, your accounts, and try to make it and collect. Don't roll it as much and collect and try to collect on Monday or Tuesday or as fast as you basically can. 

45:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But yeah, that's just part of the business, unfortunately as part of the business, obviously you're reliant on working with other partners to get you accounts. Are there any specific red flags that you look for when somebody reaches out to you and says, hey, I got this. Or or do you just kind of have to to with it no matter what, because the you know you have like basically a high ceiling with anyone that reaches out? 

45:39 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
To some extent what you said is correct. Like you kind of have to, I would just do it, but keep it a low risk. But the thing is, you know it's a small industry. People know if you're not paying your debts. People know if you're not trustworthy. Um, people can get around if a bookie is not paying people. There's chats, there's, you know there's. It's a small world betting, uh, I mean there's a lot, there's a lot of people involved with it, but the the higher levels of it, you know a lot of people know other people. So if you I mean one thing is, if you want to build a network and have help and have and get good stuff and and like, have your accounts and succeed, you know, pay your debts, keep your word. And if you can't keep your word, show up and say this is why I can't. This is what I'm gonna do to to fix it, so that, yeah, exactly what's the uh, what's the most you've ever gotten from one pph account man, there was one it was probably two years ago um this guy. 

46:37
He would like deposit fifteen thousand dollars in my shit like checking accounts and stuff, like it was like the best bookie ever. I mean, I couldn't even believe it. Like when he was paying me I was like this isn't real, like he was, and um, yeah, he wouldn't even do the venmo or the or the it's california bookies, man, I mean they're, they're the ones you gotta, you gotta, go after. 

46:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But yeah, he was just yeah, that's, that's what show, it's what shohei tried to do, right, or? 

47:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
was it otani's guy? 

47:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
otani's guy. 

47:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah that's probably why I was paying you so quick yeah. 

47:08 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
so there you go, but this guy, yeah, I mean I want to say I wanted maybe 80 000 off this guy like, like it was crazy. 

47:13 - Zack Phillips (Other)
And for a PPH that's like incredible. 

47:16 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I mean, if you get to 10 or something, that's, that's really good, I mean, but if you, if you can, he, it was crazy, this guy, and it was somebody who gave me the out, who I you know, who gave me an awesome out and I helped. He obviously helped. I gave him some of it too, but yeah, it was crazy and that was that was all syndicate. Like that wasn't me, I mean, I had still been betting in the box. So some of the plays were technically like mine, but that was all like snowstorm group murdering this dude over and over. And then the funniest part of the story is there was an agent. He was an agent and there was a guy above him and he cut me off and he was like I don't want to cut you off, but the guy above me said like we have to, so he wanted to keep taking the action. 

47:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, yeah, that was probably the best one I grabbed was that agent getting a cut of of the action on, like I don't really know he he. 

48:02 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I think some of these guys don't want to give up. They think like he's gonna lose eventually. Just everyone loses. So yeah, and then some, because in a bookie's mind I mean, 99 of people are losing, so maybe they are. Just. Some of them are stubborn in the sense that they don't want to like admit this dude's sharp or whatever, and he's, he's beat, he's gonna keep beating us. 

48:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So that that was just kind of his philosophy, I guess yeah, I'm just because, obviously for people that don't know, sometimes you can like turn the agent right agents getting like 10 percent of um, of whatever's going to the bookie, uh, for collecting and whatever. Sometimes groups will offer the agent more than the 10 percent to keep the account going, uh, for as long as you can get new accounts and get exactly. 

48:46 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Yeah, if you, that's a good tactic. If you have a bookie that pays you like prompt, and then he cuts you off, you're like, hey, man, I have a opportunity for you here. So if you get a good bookie, like an honorable bookie who's paying you, wait till he pays you the last settle and then you go hey by the way, I was using a sophisticated uh system of betting here like let's, let's talk a little bit more. 

49:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So, yeah, that's a great tactic look, look at this fucking info we're giving out on this podcast for free. Drop a fucking like right now. You know who you are. I'm looking right into the camera. Drop a like on the youtube. Gringo, what's the most you ever been stiffed? 

49:21 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
oh man, probably 20 000. Um, a friend back home. I gave him money for a post-up bet. I'd known him for a long time to post up at wins and, um, he took the money and the winnings. 

49:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah and so did he place it? Did he place the bet? Did he even place the bet? 

49:39 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
yeah, bet one, he took it and then overnight you know whatever japanese soccer, yeah something went that'll get you yeah, he's by the morning. He was like I took a bunch of adderall last night. Man, I'll talk, I'll get it back to you when I can, and that's just that's it. And he blocked me and that's life. But yeah, and that's the way it goes sometimes. 

49:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah no good tough one. 

50:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No good listen I mean, if you're in sports betting, stealing the post up too raw, yeah that that sucks that's in the heart. 

50:09 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
You steal the post up. Come on, it's true, I was kicking a man while he's down. 

50:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Seriously, that's the ultimate scumbag move yeah, and then it's true, I was kicking a man while he's down seriously that's the ultimate scumbag move, yeah and then the thing is I got that down for somebody else, so I had to quote them like I got a portion, so I had. 

50:21 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
So I had. I lost the post up, I had to give someone else the winnings and then I also lose the winnings as well. So, yeah, that was probably the worst, yeah that's a tough one. 

50:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's a tough one do you, uh, do you keep up with what other betting groups in the space are doing? 

50:35 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I work with some of them, so I know what some of them are doing. Um, I have access to one other groups, like bot type of thing, um, and I do keep up what they're doing. I I think there's a lot of good ones. Um, there's a few. I think snowstorm is the best. I'm biased I used to work there but I just think what snowstorm sort of does is there are a little more selective and what they want to play, and so it's just gonna be a little more hard, higher ROI for me, like they're kind of trying to win every week. You know what I mean and you can't win every week. There's gonna be times you don't, obviously, but they're trying to keep it lower, volume, higher, oh I, and keep the accounts, you know, with the specifications of we want to win what you tell us to win and no more than that. So that's kind of how they want to do it, because you have to collect. Winning is one thing, collecting is another yeah, they're not. 

51:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're not. Uh, one in the same, they're very different. 

51:29 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
No, yeah, winning hit a first td prop on a bet fast skin plus 700 but the bookie, it's just no no one, that's another stiff story there. So, yeah, I had like a couple of those yeah you ever, you ever? 

51:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
um, basically, I guess we'll say I I've been known. I said this a while back on the show. Okay, everybody snapped at me on on gambling twitter still after to this day. I'm gonna stick by it. Okay, I don't even know where you're going with this one I'm excited. I don't know what he's gonna say and there's one guy in particular who's gonna probably be like nah, nah, this is wrong call him fine, call him out. 

52:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Tell him he's. Tell him he's a piece of shit. 

52:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Call him out he's not a piece of shit for this. In his scenario, it works out. Shipper, you're right in your scenario. However, never play a futures bet. It doesn't make sense. 

52:22 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
No, it doesn't. 

52:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
On a. 

52:23 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
PPH. It's not a good idea. Forget about PPH. What? 

52:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm saying is this Regular in general? And there's a lot of things, there's a lot of reasons why, and most of them, to be honest, I can't even say on the pod. 

52:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What if it settles tomorrow though? 

52:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's not a futures bet. 

52:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, technically you could no, okay. 

52:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If you're talking like Masters winner and you're betting on Wednesday, no, that doesn't count. You're saying months ahead of time, months ahead like season future. I would even go as far as to say anything like pre-tournament March Madness for a tournament winner. That would be fine. Like you know, that's a three week, four week grade. 

53:00 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I'm not even saying those, although I certainly wouldn't place those in. Pph accounts. 

53:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm saying any full season, because with the futures bets and other things, for people listening, when you, when you place a futures bet, highly likely it's going to be a high plus money bet. Know, highly likely. Obviously there could be some that are not. But you're you're probably looking at like hitting plus a thousand, plus twenty five hundred if the bookie at that point is gonna be in any sort of trouble. Typically these will grade at the same time too. So if you're like, oh, I'm gonna take, uh whatever, this team to win the super bowl, I'm gonna. If it wins, it wins grand. If that's a common play and that bookie just got rinsed, that Superbowl he's done. He can't even pay you, even if he wants to, he doesn't have the money that you might not have. Let's say, three people hit him on a future and he owes 50 grand on that future. If it's not a bigger bookie like, he can't pay that out. 

53:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But that doesn't even matter, because they're just going to free roll you anyways it's gonna free whether or not. He can pay you or not. If they cut that account, they'll leave that bed open in the account. I've seen it happen. 

53:57 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
No the thing is they're they're just gonna delete the bet so like if they cut you off, they delete the bet, so that's the other issue with it too. 

54:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So if you get cut off in between here in the future, you're done. But what I'm saying is, when that future grades, because it's gonna pay out so much, it's so likely that they're just going to be like, nah, get out of here, yeah, it's so likely. And then, like I'm saying, even if they are honorable, if they do get stuck, yep, like at the end of the day, like you physically can't collect money from someone who doesn't have the money, it's, it's a losing, it's a losing game if they don't have the money they don't have. 

54:30 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I gave small examples, but the reality is you're right and also and also, you're going to hit a larger number on a future, and then, if that week you're betting and you're winning, it's going to even make it more difficult. So there you go. 

54:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But there's also just different reasons why I wouldn't place futures bets on anything, and that includes over the counter, regulated whatever, anything. 

54:54 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I just wouldn't place futures bets I don't really do a lot of it because it's not really my day. I'm more of like a day-to-day grinder type, so I don't do a lot of it. I'm curious to say why you're like. You're just not. 

55:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You're just anti-future bets, though, just just not worth it like it's not worth it to have that in your. There's just it's. There's so many reasons why and again, I said a lot of them I can't say on here, but if you guys trust me, I gave the reasons, obviously a little bit. Another one is just you you always want to, like, keep the credit free. Um, you never know what you're gonna need. 

55:23
You never know, even if that, if that future bet going in your account, let's say, you got you signed up, um, your new, better sign up at fanduel, put in 5k, 10k, you put a futures bet in. Right now you're like no, I got tons of money in the account. You start winning, whatever you start losing down. Now you have a sick banger bet. Maybe you want to play it, arb the other side on pinnacle, sponsor the show and you want to make some money there. Uh, now, instead of making, instead of being able to bet 1000, now you put a 500 future and you're going back 500. It all it takes is one of those one time that you didn't get another bet that you could churn and now your future is already roughly negative, ev. All it takes is that one. And there's so many other reasons why, like I said but no good, I would agree with that I would like in Shipper's case, he's just going to deposit another. 

56:14 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Like not everyone can do that. 

56:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What if you can't deposit? Like, even if you could deposit another thousand, then that's still that 1,000, whatever. At some point you're going to be top down how much you can deposit in that given day, true. And if you can't get that all in play, and again, this is like that's another one of whatever 15 reasons I have. 

56:32 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
It's a very high hold market, generally speaking as well. And even if you price, shop it still ends up in a high hold market. 

56:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm assuming the future is Plus EV, certified Plus EV, saying don't place it. 

56:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But anyways, that's the. Get a Johnny educational video for Pinnacle, maybe next month. Why not place a futures bet? Yeah, it's just you guys gotta trust me. 

56:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This is a source. 

56:52 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Thank you Appreciate that the source on that one is just trust me. 

56:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The source on that one is just trust me, but you guys just trust me. There you go Source. Just trust that. Trust me bro. Uh, all right, what else we got here? What else we got here? Uh, man, this has been a great episode, by the way. Thank you for joining. 

57:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think a lot of the stuff on here is not necessarily talked about in the betting space as much certainly not on open forum podcasts like this one it took me one hour to to of chatting with gringo here, to to piece together my past, my history, and figure out that I've come across this guy many times in the past before. We've just never. 

57:29 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
We've met in Vegas actually I think once. Yeah, it's awkward, yeah. 

57:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, I meet a lot of people, you're not going to Ross is very popular. 

57:38 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Ross is very popular at these events. 

57:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, yes, yes, you going this year? Not only am I going to Bed Bash this year, but breaking news, Are we announcing it? It's been confirmed we will be doing a live circles off from Bet Bash this year. Oh wow. We'll figure out the exact date but had a chat with live dog Luke. It's confirmed Finito. We're just figuring out where it's going to be taking place, but there will be a live circles off More details coming closer to Bet Bash this year. 

58:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But I'm looking forward to that. I think there's going to be a live audience there's going to be a live audience. Sign up in advance. That thing's going to fill out quick, and just sign up in advance because it's either going to fill out quick or it's not going to fill out at all, and either way, just sign up now I'm gonna see if I could get darren revell as our guest for that show you think you can get him no, I think he hates me. 

58:30
I was there I was there, right there, I was right in front of him when he agreed to come on rufus's show. I was there, I swear I was right there he was. Rufus asked him hey, maybe we can uh do that. And uh, you know, talk on bet the process. He's like, yeah, sure, that could be cool. And then ruth said, you know, you got me blocked on twitter. And then revels like, oh really. And then he went to it and then roof's like yeah, you're gonna unblock me. He's like, okay, gave, roof has hit him with the pity unblock. Yep. So he's like, ah, fuck, this guy's right here, I gotta unblock him. Maybe I'll block him later. Unblocks him. He's like, yeah, I'll do the pod, but he didn't really mean it, he was never really doing the pod, no it never happened. 

59:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think he's gone now. No more action network anymore he's doing his own thing. I don't know what's going on there. Still, you know, I don't know if he'll do it. He's not gonna do there's. There's almost no chance he's gonna do it. 

59:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There's almost no are there any advantages of being based in, uh, in columbia, other than obviously, the, the weather and stuff like that? 

59:25 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I'm saying, ben, I mean it's a, it's you know it's a very cheap lifestyle that you could get, like I have, like a maid, a trainer, like a assistant for a lot cheaper than in the us. 

59:35 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I mean if you can live you can live really well here making dollars, so it's safe. 

59:39 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I mean it's. You know, it's not like the 1990s where alaska was going around shooting people, it's. It's a safe country, it's safe-ish. 

59:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Let's put it that way Maybe safer than Pennsylvania at this moment. 

59:50 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Man, I don't know, Sometimes when I was in Cleveland recently not to call out Cleveland, but Cleveland is a rough, rough town. So, yeah, when I was back home. But yeah, I know Columbia is good, there's a lot to do and you can live a really nice lifestyle. I don't think your standard living goes down, provided you're making good money. Uh, you know, I'm lucky to be able to bet in sports on the internet. What else can you say? Okay, you know, betting sports on the internet. Living in a tropical climate, you got to be grateful. 

01:00:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So yeah, well said, man, well said. Uh, this has been a great gringo. Everyone out there, do what johnny said before smash that like button down below. If you're not subbed here on Circles Off yet and more than 50% of you watching this week I know are not subbed because I check the stats every week Make sure you hit that sub button below. It helps us grow the podcast. We always wrap up with few things, but recently we've introduced the plus EV minus EV segment, so it doesn't have to be sports betting related. Could be anything in life. Totally up to you. One thing that you think is plus EV in life and one thing that you think is minus EV in life. 

01:00:51 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
Let's go with what I just said Be grateful for what you have. You know, sometimes I don't think people Americans and Canadians. I feel like to some extent you know, they're kind of living in not a rat race Totally, but the people in Colombia don't have what we have. 

01:01:04
They don't have the advantages, but they to me they seem happier than a lot of people I know back home, because they're grateful for what they have. And you know, if you can, if you can, and even if you go through something that's awful, you know you're not the only one to go through it and there's other people in your situation. Sometimes you feel alone, but sometimes stronger than before. So be grateful for what you got and yeah, that's what I like that you got anything. 

01:01:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
A positive EV. I got one I've been holding on to for a couple of weeks now. It's tough to do, it's really tough to do to get out of this habit. But keep the cell phone assuming you use it for an alarm, alarm clock in the morning away from the bed and don't snooze the alarm. It feels terrible, but at the end, when you do actually wake up, it is better for you Scientifically, that's what they say, it's better for you. I have started to try to do it. You know the days that I am able to actually do it, no snooze, feel a lot better, more refreshed. So I'm trying to cut out the snooze. One, uh one, one snooze at a time. 

01:02:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I tried that before. It lasted approximately a few weeks and it is better Like I would force myself to have to get out of bed to go grab my phone, you still go back in. After a while I'm just like fuck this, I'm still tired, I'm going to sleep. 

01:02:20 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I think I've read, because it like gives your body the signal to sleep again and releases chemicals every time you hit the snooze button. So yeah, you're honestly. I wish I could get into that habit too I saw kanish talking about a while back about quitting coffee and I was like, wow, that's something that yeah even that's too, too daunting for me living in columbia. So yeah, I have to get some some sort of wake-up goals yeah, I, uh, I did the quit coffee thing before. 

01:02:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That lasted a month. Maybe I'm just not good things, honestly, but you know what the thing is about. I wonder if people agree with me or not, because my wife argues with me about this all the time. I set an alarm and I snooze like a million times. Right, I set an alarm way earlier than I have to wake up, knowing that I'm still gonna snooze, and she's always telling me she's like you're getting such a worse sleep. 

01:03:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Just set it for when you're going to wake, wake up and get out of bed, but there's something there's like this feels so good. 

01:03:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It feels so good to turn over and look at your phone and be like oh man, I still can sleep for like another hour and a half and like snooze dude. 

01:03:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
do you know what I used to? I don't know if I told this on the pod before, but when I was like at the peak of my sunday scaries, like if you had to go into a job the next day that you don't like or whatever, and you're like, fuck, I got to wake up tomorrow at like 6.30 am to drive into my job. That I hate. Like this is brutal. Like when you're about to go to bed, for that it feels terrible. So what I used to do is I'd set an alarm roughly for 3.30 in the morning and I'd wake up, and every time I'd trick myself into thinking that I had to wake up and then I'd be like bro, I got another three hours of sleep. What a hit that gives you. That's honestly a rush and a half. I don't recommend it. Don't do it. It ruins your sleep. It's obviously not good for you, but that feeling, what a rush. 

01:04:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I agree. I don't know, like Gringo. I don't know like Gringo, I don't know if we want to talk about your sleeping habits or anything like that. 

01:04:06 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
I think I agree with you, rob, because I set a bunch of different alarms and then snooze them. But to me it's mitigating risk because, like your wife says, step one, we gotta get up. I can't because I'm too worried that I'm gonna just go through it. 

01:04:16 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, so I gotta get. 

01:04:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I have to. Nowadays they have. There's a lot of innovation in the world nowadays, but nowadays they have these mattresses that slowly change the temperature as you're kind of waking you up peacefully. I'd like to try something like that and see if it's any different. 

01:04:32 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
There's clocks like that that just light up slowly to get you. It's like the sunlight. 

01:04:36 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, there's a signal that turns on. Yeah. 

01:04:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But the mattress one specifically. It starts to change the temperature of the mattress to optimal for I like optimal for I don't know. I'd like to try stuff like that. I'll never do it but I'd like to try. 

01:04:46 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
You got a negative ev negative ev I would say let's, let's let. Gratitude is more about living in the present. I think negative ev is is, you know, regrets and holding on to the past. You know something? I remember seeing the quote by jaco, who I kind of like admire a little bit. He was like people say what would you tell your 20 year old self? Like it doesn't, doesn't matter, you're not 20 anymore, you're here now. It's a nice anecdote or something to think about, but it's irrelevant what you would say to your younger self because you're here now, so live in the present. 

01:05:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Hey, colombians, we're going to be skipping the next question. Great answer there. I couldn't agree more. We're going to be skipping the next question. I think we're actually going to end it here. 

01:05:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I do want to say really one thing that I'll give out a plus EV that I wasn't going to give out, but I had to do it after the episode I did with Kanish, where we gave out the. You know, I gave out my Twitter list, like my favorite Twitter accounts in gambling Twitter, and I tried to give some precedent and how I was grading them and whatever. I didn't realize this, but there is a feature on Twitter where you can choose to not see tweets from people that don't follow you, which I would highly suggest you turn that on. 

01:05:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But that doesn't even. That's for so few people. 

01:06:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What do you mean for so few? 

01:06:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You actually have a following on Twitter I guess, I guess what you're saying, that's literally for nobody except you. 

01:06:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would be so fucked if I did that. That's a good point. 

01:06:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't even think. I have like five followers and they're all bots. 

01:06:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, let me rephrase this If you have a big following on Twitter, I would highly suggest that you use that feature. It's amazing, it's amazing, it's gold. If they don't follow you, I don't wanna say that their opinion is relevant that's not what it comes down to, but you shouldn't care enough about what they have to say. That's a reality. 

01:06:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If you're actually posting content and have a following, fine, I think that's a fine move for you, okay, but for everyone-. 

01:06:36 - Gringo (@BetWithGringo) (Guest)
You're trying to declutter the timeline yeah. You're trying to get that you know we're recording this on Monday. 

01:06:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This will obviously be released on Thursday but I'm sorry, but it's not recording this on Tuesday. 

01:06:51
I was gonna say so Monday night. Like the Leafs play the Bruins, I'm live tweeting the game and I'm you know, I go and I click my tweet and what this will do is it'll put all these tweets section and I clicked the show more. It's just like a bunch of Bruins fans tweeting at me that I'm an idiot and I'm like, okay, there's no reason for me to see this in real time. So I'm glad this is working and that's what stemmed, you know, led me to give that out as a move. I guess, yeah, we can actually get this in the first time ever. We're not going to do our closing questions. It's done now. We, friend Gringo, you broke it. 

01:07:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm sorry, guys Coming in hard, no worries, no worries. This has been episode 151 of the Circles Off Sports Betting Podcast here on the Hammer Betting Network. We've been joined by our grateful guest. Very grateful to have him and he's very grateful for his life, gringo. Appreciate you, man. We'll see you all next week. Like and subscribe.