00:00 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
You get out of your comfort zone. You know you're used to sitting behind a computer, tapping away at your keyboard and placing a few bets, and then suddenly you're on stage in front of 300 people trying to make yourself sound intelligent. Come on, let's go. 

00:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You think I'm going to come on here and put one of the odds in the elite gear. 

00:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'd vote for Rob of 25,000. 

00:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I wouldn't vote for you. I can basically just cheat and get the same backs that they're getting. 

00:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's weird, because you can also pay your bills at the same place where you bet. I mean, you're a short guy, what? 

00:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This guy talks a lot of trash. He's talked a lot of trash about me, Rob, a lot of people in the community, but he's refusing to show his face. 

00:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Telling yourself he's a pretty good NFL gambler. I thought you were an idiot. Say testing, testing, I'm a cuck. One, two, three, four. Aussies going head to head with the Aussies. That's what I grew up for. And I said get him Kirk. And they call me a mean-spirited name. I don't hang out with them. The Toronto Maple Leafs at 14-1, staring me dead in the face. 

00:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm already getting you know a lot of early. 

01:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This could be the best Circles Off episode that's ever been done. Welcome to Circles Off, episode number 168,. Right here, part of the Hammer Betting Network and presented by Pinnacle Sportsbook, I am Rob Pizzola, joined by Johnny from Betstamp. How's it going? 

01:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We're almost there, rob. Couple weeks until NFL best time of the year, without a doubt. What are you? 

01:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
up to. Yeah, I'm prepping for NFL, but I've actually started. I can't believe I'm going to say this. I'm actually getting into college football because I've been watching the conference previews that Powers did with Kanish over on Hit the Books. I mean this is a plug, but it's not really a plug, because I've actually been watching them. Threw down some some plug your ears for a through down some futures bets, no good, threw down a few futures bets, uh good really good. 

01:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I do think those will win, though, by the way, like they've been moving a lot of stuff on the futures, oh yeah. So like I'm not saying that they're bad bets, by the way, I just don't place futures, but yeah, those will. Those will win, man. Like the college football market, especially right now, those guys are crushing Time value of futures is one of the first episodes we ever did. 

02:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One of the OG. Actually, you know what. Anyone who hasn't listened to just the audio-only episodes on Spotify, it's within our first 10 episodes. But we did a pretty lengthy thing on futures at that point, if anyone ever wants to go back and listen to that. But we don't live in the past, we live in the now, and the now is the time to bet at Pinnacle Sportsbook, the sharpest sportsbook on the planet. Find out what pro bettors have known for the last 25-plus years. 

02:41
Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. I've been playing at Pinnacle for a long time. I will continue to play at them for a long time because they're, frankly, just very good. If you're a pro bettor or you're someone who's looking for decent limits, you're going to get volume at Pinnacle. If you're looking for a ton of different markets, you're going to get those markets at Pinnacle. If you're looking for great customer service and everything else, pinnacle has that as well. So if you do sign up in Canada, make sure you use code HAMMER to do so, as it does support us here. On Circles Off. You must be 19 plus, not available in the US, and, as always, please play responsibly. Our guest this week is the head honcho of the Smart Betting Club, otherwise known as SBC, which you can check out at smartbettingclubcom. As part of that, he also hosts the Smart Betting Club podcast. He's a sharp sports better, himself known for his work with a large betting syndicate. You can follow him on Twitter at PeteLing1. Pete Ling joins us today on Circles Off. 

03:38 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
How's it going? Yeah, really good guys. Thanks for having me on. I enjoy listening to Circles Off off, so it's a pleasure to see me invited on, yeah thanks for joining. 

03:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
For those who don't know Peter, although he doesn't sound like it, he is in Toronto right now. 

03:50 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
I am, I am, yeah, so I've been living in in Toronto for eight years so I have a couple of Canadian kids, an English wife, um, but yeah, still very much uh, can't lose the accent right but obviously very aware of what's going on here in North America. 

04:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So for those who couldn't have guessed yet, I guess tell everyone where you're from, and then I guess your background and start in the betting industry. 

04:12 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
Sure. So I think I guess it's the sweet spot of my age. You know I'm mid-40s now but the internet explosion of the internet and obviously internet betting in the UK in the early 2000s, I was around for that particular time. So just at that sweet spot where you're looking to develop a career, trying to find your niche, and obviously I had a lot of interest in it. I've always had a background in maths and numbers and I've always been fascinated by probability. So I played games like Magic when I was growing up, played that D&D, all that kind of stuff and numbers. And there's a soccer game called Championship Manager which anyone who's from the UK you're not in there, rob you might have heard of it, but um, it's uh yeah, I've played Championship Manager before as well. 

04:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah this is like basically just before my time, or is it still big now? 

05:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
no, there's uh, well, there's all sorts of different soccer sim games, but yeah, I don't know if it's still going on now, but I've, uh, unless I'm confusing this with something completely different, I'll let you continue here, pete yeah, you're right, it's a like a management football management simulator, but it's very much like the precursor to. 

05:19 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
You know fantasy football. You know you would sit on your. I had an atari st um, I don't know if that was big in canada, but it was. You know it was a powerful enough to um power, like games like that, until like four or five in the morning. It's just all you know, numbers and working out tactics and drilling into that. So yeah, champ man, I think it's now called football manager, do you bet? 

05:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
do you bet on this or you just like it's like a fantasy? 

05:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
fantasy, but do you play against? 

05:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
somebody else? No, it's a. It's just like a fantasy platform. No, it's just a fantasy platform, but do you play against somebody? 

05:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
else. No, it's a. Well, I don't know nowadays if you can, but I know it as football manager now which is basically like just imagine you want to put yourself in the shoes of either the manager, the coach or manager of the team, or like general manager. It's like a sim engine. It's like playing Madden or nhl ultimate tv without actually playing the game. 

06:07 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
Yeah, I'd have to think about it be applied a rating. So it's all very much like working through through that process, um. So yeah, like that was my always interest levels in that kind of thing. Um, I had a background in like more web design, web marketing, um, and uh, just I remember I had a friend who was very interested in stocks and shares and he would get like a stocks and shares newsletter. 

06:28
This is like the mid 2000s. He'd get a stocks and shares newsletter that would basically review products that you could use for trading stocks and shares. And then he got sent one which was about betting, because he subscribed to the stocks and shares. When he got sent a betting one, as they wanted him to subscribe to that, and at that time me and him were doing a little bit of betting ourselves and we were doing fairly okay with it. We found a few we'll talk about, like tipsters and betting services that we were using. So we knew a little bit about the industry. And then we were reading this newsletter. It just sprung out to us they were just promoting and reviewing the products that paid them the most to say they were good, rather than the ones that were good. 

07:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And there's a few that just stood out. 

07:09 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
It still goes on. You know it's the old ruse. So we just figured we could do something better. And that's where, you know, sbc kind of started out to be actually independent and, you know, review products in depth and not just, you know, sell out to the highest bidder. So since then it's obviously developed a fair bit, but that was the nucleus of how it started. 

07:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So what differentiates you guys now from? I mean, I've known of other platforms that exist in this space that are somewhat similar. What would you say differentiates SBC from those? 

07:41 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
I think we go into quite a lot of detail from our reviews. So we don't do like one a week because we like to go into the detail. So I actually have an actuary, a trained actuary, who does the analysis for us. So I give them the raw data, as much data as possible on the product or service we're reviewing. Sometimes we've got multiple data files to examine, like things about odds, movement, maybe CL, maybe clv or all these kind of elements that we'll start to look into um, and we'll crunch that data. 

08:09
We'll do like Monte Carlo simulations, we'll just really explore the data. So you know we can put forward an opinion based on what the data tells us and often from that we can find you know you might find a particular expert or service which has flaws within the data which you can't actually find until you examine it, for example, a reliance on a few high profile, high big winners, or evidence of an edge that has just dried up or evidence of a staking plan that isn't efficient, just stuff like that that just helps point towards the edge and the skill set of the person involved or the service involved. And also, I think, because we're independent, so people pay a membership fee to join our service and we don't take a fee for the products or the services that we review. So if we were to review Betstamp, it would be based on or if you had a service, for example, we'd review it based on the data and the facts and it wouldn't be because you paid us to do so. 

09:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You guys actually did review Betstamp back in the day and I can confirm we did not pay you anything. So we appreciate that, sir. 

09:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, that checks out that checks out. 

09:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's spitting facts right now. 

09:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Are? You are the reviewing? Sorry, I just want to explain to the audience as well. So, terminology wise, you're going to hear stuff like tipsters, punters. 

09:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Tipster, tout punter better Handicapper. 

09:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Handicapper, exactly, so just in case that gets lost in translation for anyone out there. So for the tipster, or tout services that you're reviewing, are they predominantly North American based? Is this worldwide? Where are you reviewing the most of this? 

09:50 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
Well, these days, betting is very much worldwide. You know the market follows a similar pattern across the world. In many instances, you know we've got the market leaders like Pinnacle and even people like Bet365 and a lot of the firms that are international. So the odds that you can get across the world are going to be the same in North America and Canada as they often are in the UK and Australia and places like that. So you can absolutely follow them around the world. 

10:15
And that's an increased focus of what we're trying to showcase to people and say look, you know, ok, these might be services that originate. There's one from Spain, that's really good, that originate from Spain. Or they might originate from, you know, okay, these might be services that originate. There's one from spain, that's really good that originate from spain. 

10:32
Or they might originate from, you know, eastern europe, but they're actually applicable here and you can follow them from, like, south america, you can follow them from wherever you are, just because you know bookmakers generally follow a certain pattern and you don't. You know, you don't have to be in like I'm working with a guy who's in New Zealand at the moment betting on rugby and he's working with him as an originator and getting down in Canada. So this is on New Zealand rugby. Of course, you're going to stand out a bit more betting on that from Canada, but you can still get down in some of these markets. So that's what we're trying to showcase, is that international appeal, and that you can use them from Canada just as you can from Europe or wherever else. 

11:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Interesting. I actually do want to talk a little bit more about that, but before we do, in the last couple of weeks there was the Right Angle 100, tweeted a thread of. They spend as a group, right Angle Sports, somewhere between $8,000 and $12,000 a year buying picks from other groups. They outline some reasons that they do that, but it helps them with market timing and all sorts of other reasons. People can check out the thread if they want. In your experience of all the tipsters and services that you evaluate, what percentage of them do you think actually have real sustainable value to someone who wants to buy that service? 

11:59 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
And why, in terms of across the markets, like 1% of the of the amount of services that are out there, it would probably be a low number like that, maybe even half a percent, and there's so many out there and so many come and go and you've got that survivorship bias at times as well, haven't you? Where you find those services that have just made it through just because, through luck, they've had a particularly strong period? So, yeah, I mean there are a lot of services that we don't actually examine just because you can tell straight away they're not up to much. So it would be hard to gauge. But there's enough out there that are good enough that you get a sense of, from, like you can tell so much from visiting their website. You know the language they use, so it's sometimes quite easy to pick out the obvious ones. 

12:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For guys like me and you, that is Pete, but for the vast majority of the population it's actually challenging. 

12:50 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely, because I think if you don't have the time to get into it, especially when it comes to the less obvious elements, for example when you get into the data. But there are some simple things that you can question and ask in terms of practicality and viability of the service, and sometimes those answers that come in are really informative. Just the the, the skill level of the person running the service. Do they actually bet? And you can get a really good sense of that really quickly based on their answers. If you do bet, that's interesting. 

13:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um, there's also a john. You might remember this. There's like that tout chart that circulated years ago that Spryker put together right. It's a flow chart of basically whether or not you should pay for picks. Inevitably, with the way that this flow chart is designed, it all leads towards you shouldn't pay for picks. 

13:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, but it's not 100% accurate in a lot of ways. 

13:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I wanted to talk about that because one of the biggest things in that flow chart is does the tipster move the betting market when they release their place? If no, don't buy it type of situation. Have you evaluated services before that don't have much in terms of market presence, so to speak, doesn't move the market on release? That you think, and I'm not asking you to name names, but do those services exist that you believe are actually worthwhile? 

14:16 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
Yeah, there are some out there and obviously often they build up their profile, their name. I've seen some like in horse racing in the UK, which is obviously a huge market for people in the uk and ireland that start off quite small and then become quite influential just because word spreads and there's that tipping point because the market is being influenced so heavily by that the amount of money that's into the, into the market and people become so aware of some of those edges. So they do exist, but the majority are obviously having an impact in the markets and where they're advising, especially after it's a period of time when they've got a strong reputation and bookmakers will be aware or make notes and join the services themselves to make sure that they don't get caught out. 

15:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I'm looking at Smart Betting Club now and I've been through the website before, so you guys actually do recommend services that could be worthwhile. What goes into evaluating that? And you're willing to put your name behind a service out there, because ultimately, there's not a lot of people who are willing to do that in the space, that are willing to stand behind someone as, like, I strongly believe that these are winners and you should should get the pick. So how do you evaluate the credibility and the effectiveness of a lot of these services? 

15:30 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
well, initially it's it's the conversations that you do have with them. What do they do? How do they advise bets? Um, you're looking at the practicality of actually, as a user, actually following the service. Can you take advantage of them? Are they, for example, taking advantage of boosts or the type of bets that obviously don't last long on your account, maybe certain concessions that get added and can be removed from your account? So, if they're taking things like that, sometimes it's not really going to be something that we're going to explore. And then if you have a sense of their impact on the market and how they're quoting prices and odds. So, naturally, odds do move and lines do move, especially with the influential services. But are they just scraping the very best price or the very best line that they can achieve or that's available at the market, or are they being fair, are they being realistic? Are they making decisions upon when they release those bets to allow subscribers the optimal way of getting the most value down? And that's the practicality of it. And we do, you know, examine the odds movement or line movement so we can see, like the degree of it, how quickly it takes place. 

16:40
Um, and sometimes you get a really good sense of the practicality of following. If you have to be on that bet within five, ten minutes, then that's fine if you can do that, but obviously not for others. So that's a key part of it. And then we'll get into the data and not just has it made a profit or not? We obviously have an angle on that profit. But things like are they relying on big winners as their statement plan? Optimal um? Has their like say, their model lost its edge? Has it gained its edge, um? Are we seeing, uh, any change in strategy over year, over the years, in terms of the average prices or the type of markets they're targeting? So sometimes you can find you. 

17:22
I was looking at a nfl tipster and they ever they do handicaps and um and totals and they had, I think, their edge on the handicaps was so much better than on the total. So there's one of those things you don't know whether the service knows that probably they don't, because they probably might adjust their strategy a little bit. Um. So that's one thing. And then we'll also do the Monte Carlo simulations and they're really good because you can get a live record, you know, you can get 2000 size data sample and then you compare it to Monte Carlo simulations where, for those not familiar with it, you basically run that model millions of times and look at all the different, what the simulations showcase in terms of the extremes and the averages that you could obtain. 

18:03
And that's a really good sense of seeing if a set of results is a, made up, which obviously does happen, or B, if it's this, like you know, just really perform, outperformed itself or even underperformed, and from that you get a sense of like drawdowns, which would be you know how much you can lose, the type of losing runs you can have, and then comparative figures like sharp ratios and P values compare, which basically work out if they give it a score in terms of if it's a record based on skill and look. 

18:36
So all of that combined it comes together and then we try and write that up and put forward a balanced review and viewpoint. And then the best ones, the ones that you have been around for the longest time and consistently grinded out that edge and have adapted and handled losing, you know, because every expert, every better, has a losing period. It's sometimes how you handle it that differentiates. Uh, the long term, the people that can stay in the game long term or not. So yeah, so a long way answer to your question there, but hopefully it answers it no, that's actually great. 

19:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is next level stuff for people who who don't know, like this is coming from someone personally who's evaluated consult the first points well, no, not that hasn't come up in a while. Let's not. Let's not go there just yet. But this is someone who's personally tracked a lot of totes, uh, in the past before and gone through records, and the amount of work that what you're describing is is through the roof, so massive I'm just curious. 

19:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Remember the one? Yeah, I mean I did. 

19:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're laughing at examples because we know what we're talking about here I know specifically many touts that I've tried to track and how long it's taken and to get to the bottom of whether this is a real play or not. It's absurdly complex how much of this is manual versus automated when you're going through these accounts. 

19:55 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
Well, you really need data in a good format. So if you can get it in this usable format, that's the first point. And if you're following a handicap or a talent that doesn't have a set of data, they're not worth the time. If they don't have it in a spreadsheet or some kind of exportable or usable format, I'm not going to do that work for them and obviously they're not taking it seriously. Because you've got to track your edge, you've got to track your bets. So as long as you've got that, actually, as you repeat the process, it becomes a lot quicker and then you become used to. You know, you get used to the way the data is presented internally and then how you can interpret that. So it takes a little while until you get used to it and then it almost becomes second nature. But yeah, it's a fair amount of work. And then it's translating that data and trying to explain it to people in a way that makes sense. That's sometimes the most challenging part. 

20:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense and it's funny that you mentioned that as just like if they don't have it in a usable format, I just eliminate them right away as a credible source, and you could basically eliminate at least 95% of the industry that way. 

21:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It doesn't even need to be a usable format, but like if you're just the. The lack of record keeping is astonishing in some of these guys. 

21:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It really is it's, it's not. It's not only the lack of record keeping sometimes, but also the lack of quality in record keeping, like some people do keep records but it's so piss poor um that it's. It just becomes impossible, like like a ton that guy's now keeping his record. 

21:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Um, actually I'm not even gonna name him because I don't want more notoriety, but one of those like dfs thread guys. Yeah, he's like keeping an mlb record. He has yet to post a price. It's insane. I I this pisses me off so much. He's just posting like totals, like strikeouts over eight and a half, unders, eight and a half, whatever. It doesn't just post the number with no price. And then he has his record win, loss, win, loss, win, loss. And he's just counting like I'm 117 and 110 yeah, it's ridiculous. 

21:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I mean, I mean I saw this recently with uh who who posted it? I don't, I wouldn't mind calling them out if I remembered who it was, but it was. You know things. I've bet this NFL season it's Zach Wilson unders and it's like, first of all, zach Wilson's not lined in pretty much any spot, so I'd love to know where that came from. Also, unders on what Zach Wilson unders could mean a million things, no price associated. 

22:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Unders on roster spot with the team Under roster spot. 

22:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean, this is the type of stuff that you have to filter through pretty regularly. So kudos to you, pete, because I don't have it in me to go through that. In terms of the betting culture in North America relative to, let's say, the UK or other regions that you've dealt with, are the cultures similar? Do you see the appetite for people to buy picks the same in North America as it is in other parts of the world? Are the services generally better or worse in North America versus other parts of the world? Can you describe the landscape a little bit? 

23:07 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
it does seem to me like the. The cost of services and what people will pay for picks in north america is a lot more than what people in other jurisdictions would look to pay for, and that might be the nature of some of the big markets that they're targeting. You know they're playing into, you know nfl markets, for example, uh, but there does seem to be that culture there and people will bet a lot more on any one individual bet as well. So that's been a little struggle to find. When you compare to some of the services which we look at, which generally trend to give it in US dollars between like 50 to 150 US dollars a month across different types of platforms and sports with some really good tools, and then you compare that to services that might be charging hundreds and hundreds per month, or maybe thousands per season, and you obviously get some of those touts that are putting up whale picks or whatever they call them, triple lock picks. Some of these names are fantastic, but $500, I guarantee no lose play or whatever. So I do think there's that as well. 

24:10
So I'm not sure why that is, but from our perspective, we're always looking at, you know, how much you can make beyond the costs that you're outlining, outlining your spending story on a service. 

24:22
So you know, if you do the maths, if it costs like $10 a pick and you assume a 5% return, then you need to bet like $200 a play to bring even in equity, and then that obviously doesn't take into account the risk of the picks losing that you've paid for. 

24:39
So if you're only paying 100, 150 a month and you find services where you can churn through volume I think that's the key thing you can churn through the volume, you can use your capital. I've heard Trench talk about this in the past on your part and on other people Volume is the key and even if you're hitting a low ROI, just keep playing and keep hitting that volume. So I'm not quite sure the differences on that front. I have those theories that uh, um, people just seem to be a little bit more inclined to paying a bit more and used to paying a bit more. But I'm here to say you don't necessarily need to. But obviously if you're going to be betting on some certain sports like nfl and some of the big sports like that, there is, um, most of the services, some good services are all a little bit more expensive. 

25:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Do you reckon that maybe the North American market is just behind the curve just because regulation happened more recently than in the UK, for example? Would you believe that over time, let's say 10 years from now are people in North America going to be willing to pay the same amount for picks that you're currently seeing? Because obviously there's a lot of evolution in the industry and right now there's a lot of what I would call social media experts out there and experts in quotations for those who are listening in podcast form that sell themselves as experts that aren't. Do you think that 10 years from now we're looking at the same amount or more? Do you think that the general population kind of wisens up to what's out there? 

26:11 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
I think you'd be looking at the same. I don't really think that what we do is great, no doubt and I like your podcast and I like what you do at BetStamp but really we're appealing to a small minority of the people that bet. Most people are interested in things like line shopping. They're not interested in finding value. They're not really interested in you know. They want to have a bet because they enjoy the action, they enjoy have sweat on the game, they enjoy testing their opinion, whereas you know, we come to it from a point of view of trying to make a little bit of cash on it. So I think it's just going to be much the same, I'm afraid interesting um, you mentioned the. 

26:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I was going to say something actually on that the, the, the tout market has changed over the past. Like since I've at least since we launched bed stamp, which is like four years ago at this point, it used to be a lot more like scams and touts that didn't win, who are just like marketing to people and be like, yeah, I got all the info. Like I'm an originator. But now, like, if you want my honest opinion and and I've I've come around on this I'll preface it by again saying as of today, this is my opinion there's at least and I'm not even joking here at least 15 things I could think of that you could buy that would actually help you win and would legitimately let you win. 

27:16
Um, and it seems so when you say things, are you talking tools or just people tools okay things, yeah, um, like some, some of them are just following specific people on picks that they give out and you could win. I buy. 

27:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not going to disclose what I, what I buy, but I I buy picks and and that right angle sports thread which will actually link in the description below for anyone who wants to go through it at some point. It's value. There are serious reasons to to be able to buy plays. Understanding what's going on in the industry is important, but there there are like hidden gems all the time all absolutely. 

27:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And crazy part of it is I didn't necessarily believe this because you know, like the tout chart is like oh, why would they do this? I had to do this. The reality is like there's certain odd sets right now where I can snipe off and and give you like 20 plays right now that are going to win, but I can't necessarily bet those myself for more than a dollar. So if I can technically, if I can sell that to you and say, hey, give me $10 for all these, give me $10 per play. These are going to win long term and you're getting $1,000 per play. It's going to work out for both of us. So at the end of the day day like there are actual win-win scenarios. 

28:26
I know it seems far-fetched, especially with from us in this podcast, because we've talked about for so long. Like you know, it's not smart and for the majority of people it's obviously not smart to buy these random like scam touts. But like a perfect example is like the can be book. You know, anyone who has is anybody is obviously limited at Camby and can't fire any amount limited to pennies, a dollar pennies. But if you had three different Camby outs right now, I could sell you a product for $100 and say, hey, pay me $100 and I'll send you all these Camby plays. You're going to print money. But the reality is most people will be like, oh, this must be a scam, because why isn't this guy making money? 

29:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And it's like that just is his way of making money off of the can be placed. I find in the sports betting industry that there there's these common threads that get picked up on and continuously just get pushed because they make sense for the majority of people. So a perfect example is don't bet parlays right, which as a winning better. We know that parlays could be a very effective tool for betting and winning more. Additionally, they can be very effective in terms of getting your account potentially profiled as a square account or a sharp account. However, for 99% of people maybe slightly less than that, 98% of people the advice is don't bet parlays. Don't, because you're not a winning bettor. You're just making things worse for yourself, right, that's advice. 

29:58
It's the same, in my opinion, with the picks industry. You get people who are like don't buy picks, never buy picks and, honestly, for 98% of people who are, if they're gonna do their own homework, they're not equipped to discern who's a scammer from who actually wins. Most of these people don't know who's respected in market. So don't buy picks. For 98% of people, it makes sense. 

30:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There's, legitimately Telegram bots that will help you snipe off lines from certain softbooks and you're going to win off those. But there's also Telegram bots that are guys giving out his NFL picks and you're going to get absolutely crushed on those. So it really is like, oh, you can't just go say like oh yeah, you can't buy picks off Telegram. It's a scam, it's give and take with anything. Exactly what you're saying. 

30:48 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
I mean the shades of gray, right, the shades of gray. It's like people who come up and say you could only make a profit betting on this sport or betting in this way. It's not always true. It's just trying to create a headline or a little what you call it, a quote. You know, a little bit of spin to try and get people to pay attention to you. It's not actually true. The shades of gray Parleys are great for trying to get more money on a bet that you're limited on. Yeah, exactly, put it in a parley, get more down. You know I do that all the time. So a lot of sharp betters bet on parlays beauty. 

31:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, moving forward this, uh, you know some more interesting self, peter, but you also bet as well yourself wanted to ask you about that and kind of how that's been going, if you want to describe kind of what, uh, what you're working on there yeah. 

31:32 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
So what I do at spc kind of feeds a lot of what I do, my own betting wise. I also work part of a syndicate, which is the third strand of it. So, yeah, a lot of the products and services I've used or I would use or have used myself there's probably about half a dozen that I use at the moment, a bit like you're saying there, johnny you know you've got whether it be bots, whether it be tools, um, that you allow you to find value in the markets, or the outs that you have available to you, and I use them. Um. How I do it, how I have done it, is I do it myself a lot to begin with, understand how it works, the vulnerabilities in the market where I can take advantage of them, how many bets, how to do it, and then I have brought people in to help me with that. 

32:12
So with my business with SPC, I brought people in to help write and to put things together. But I obviously understand how to do it myself and have done it myself. I'm the same with the betting. I've got a small team that I work with that help me get down on what I need to. So that's my theory. Really, I can do it myself, and maybe I could just do that, but then I can't scale it. There's a finite amount of time and things I can do. But then if I bring people in, of course I'm going to pay for them and pay for their time and their work, but I'm still making an edge over and above that and that allows me to, uh, to scale up. But the goal for me is volume, you know, just trying to get as much sharp volume, a decent betting down as possible, maximize my capital and turn over that my money as much as I can. So that's my kind of theory on betting on what I do. Interesting. 

32:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So you, so you review the tipsters, tout services and the ones that are good. You're like I'm firing these. 

33:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sounds like a pretty decent strategy, but but also like it's a practice, what you preach type of thing, right, like if your product is that and you're not doing that, you know you then then what's the point of having the product? So I I do appreciate that and honestly again, uh, that this is not we're, this is not a ps, this is not like go and buy every touts picks. You have to be very, very smart about it. But I will say that there's been a percentage of my income that I've won over the years by just betting other people's things, and it's a means to an end if you know what you're looking for. 

33:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I've bought picks from multiple people, especially when I was younger, because I just wanted to try it. It wasn't the only thing I was doing, because I just wanted to try it and I didn't like it wasn't the only thing I was doing and I wasn't just firing those. So you know, I can't necessarily knock or credit anyone, but honestly I was like pretty 50-50. Like I think I probably bought like six people's picks. Three of them actually won, one of those was probably fluke, three of them lost and there were probably losers that I shouldn't have bought. So of the six, I'd say four I regret, two I don't regret, but one of the ones that I bought far made up for all of the subscriptions of all the other six plus all the money lost from those. It's. It's crazy. But yeah, you, you can. You can sometimes find some value. Just really depends on what. And another thing is it really is. 

34:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For those of you listening, it's really no different than like working with an originator that's the same thing, it, and, and you can't say like you're stealing the place for yourself because it's being sold. 

34:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, absolutely not stealing the place for yourself if you're buying them, of course, but I'm saying like it's. It's no different than working with an originator who is pretty unproven in the market and, you know, might be getting value here, might be getting value here. 

34:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's no difference, it's getting plays from somebody well, and in particular to pete's case here, I think what's interesting is that there's so much, there's overlap here, right, it's like what he's doing for his business and you correct me if I'm wrong, people like what you're doing for your business is directly applicable to your personal betting. So it's like it's like killing two birds with, or sorry, pita. Personal bedding. So it's like it's like killing two birds with, or sorry, pita. Uh, feeding two birds with one scone. It's like feeding two birds with one scone, which is, I mean, that's like the most effective use of time possible as well yeah, excellent pronunciation of scone. 

35:14 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
I think we call it scone. Do you call it scone scone? 

35:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
yeah, but that might be a north south divide thing anytime you can feed two birds with one scone, that's One with one scone. 

35:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now I feel like a complete idiot. I thought it was scone my entire life. I didn't know that it was scone. 

35:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It probably is scone, because they wouldn't have rhymed it with stone. 

35:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is a very random question, but I need to know your actual personal opinion on scones. 

35:39 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
Oh well, I think scones, yeah, I love scones. A bit of jam, a bit of butter, yeah, a little bit of cherry jam, that's my favorite. Yeah, I love them. You know, high tea, a bit of afternoon tea I mean, I'm British, I have a cup of tea every evening after my dinner, so I don't have a scone with it. A scone, well, definitely a cup of tea. 

36:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
See, like most of the scones I've had in life, the only reason I'm asking have been pretty dry, like you need the jam. You can't just really eat it alone. I don't know, I'm not a huge fan. 

36:13
I'm not big, but that's just me personally. You mentioned earlier you used an example of, I think, a Canadian who might buy like an Australian's picks and get down on rugby or something like that. We don't tend to see a lot of I'll just call it like international betting, so to speak, at least not in my inner circles. It's like guys who are in North America get down on North American stuff. 

36:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I've seen plenty of international betting. I've seen some guys like absolutely like, throttle, throttle, kbo, euroball, stuff like that. 

36:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's a good point. We actually had one of those guys tracking on Betstamp. 

36:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He probably still does I've seen someone actually throttle Euroleague basketball. Sorry, Euroleague basketball. 

36:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's say there's a North American guy going to buy picks, for example. I think they tend to lean towards buying like nfl another, yeah, north american guys picks when there could be actually better serve why? Why do you think, pete, that we don't see as much of that? 

37:15 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
well, I think there's people are interested in the sports that they like to watch and they like to have an interest in, and I think that's a key point. You know a lot of the sports I profit in and have done well with, I I don't watch, I don't have any interest in the sport. It just is a pnl at the end of a spreadsheet or on a betting account, um. So it's that distinction between do you want to bet for fun, like go and have a bet on your team, or the sport that you enjoy? Um, if it's a sunday or you're going to a game or you just like a particular, that's fine. But if you want to make a profit, you need to separate the idea that it has to be on this particular sport. 

37:50
Because if you're betting on like a traditional big american sport, like it's very highly efficient markets and it's very tough to beat, and then you look at some of the smaller, more niche sports and you'll find a few North American books well, more than a few aren't particularly clued up on what they're offering. 

38:06
They're pricing it up but they're not aware of it, they're not really paying attention to it. So there has been and continues to be vulnerabilities there on other sports that they're not seeing much action on but they're not really paying any attention to. So I would just encourage people, don't feel like you have to bet on what you already know. If you understand value and you understand the idea of you know this price is value and that price isn't, and you can get the prices that are value and consistently hit that, then you will do well, whether you like that sport or you watch it or you have an interest in it or not. So, yeah, I bet a lot on and you it's funny you mentioned european basketball there, johnny, because there's a guy from greece I've been working with on european basketball, absolutely killing it, and again, you can bet it extensively from here. 

38:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, like I can tell you one player in the european basketball, no and yeah and you don't need to you, don't need no that's the truth uh, out of curiosity, pete, did you ever try your hand at originating uh sport, or do you do any origination yourself now? 

39:08 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
no, I did a little bit, probably about 10 years ago, uh like um on premier league soccer, but it's again just for my own uh interest and I made a small profit on it. But the amount of work required and this is before you know you're going up against people who have such advanced models and obviously you're going up against bookmakers again as well, and so such such difficulties to do and obviously the time involved, um, just didn't make sense to do it. 

39:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I did try my hand and hats off to people who can do it because you know that's takes a lot of time and you know a lot of energy and expertise to do that yeah, it's just um, your, your model's, very unique um, because you mentioned off the top that you're big into math, um, when you were younger, and typically the natural progression there is like, okay, I'm going to try to beat this sport using math. You kind of have, but in a in a backwards way. So I was just curious about that. But, in terms of Smart Betting Club, what are the future plans for you? I mean, are there any new projects, any new features that you're working on, or are you just going to go down this same path for a little while? 

40:15 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
Yeah, the same path for a little while. We're trying to expand into different territories like this. So we're trying to. We'll be doing a lot of work this year on, like we talked at the start, terminology and whether it be scone or scone, or jam or jelly, or all the different different slight tomato, tomato, all the different terminologies, but obviously from a better viewpoint and also from the point of if you are living in australia or if you are living in I don't know north america or europe, like what are the differences if you are living in I don't know North America or Europe, like what are the differences if you wanted to follow a particular service compared to if you're living in you know UK and Ireland, which always was our traditional market? We're trying to branch out and appeal to people because of that international flavor. So we're trying to do more on that, trying to explain to people, in their language or based on their, what's available to them in their country in terms of bookmakers or markets, how they can take advantage of some of the options available to them. So it'd be more of that. 

41:08
What we're seeing a lot more is advanced tools, whether it be a lot of them are synced up with platforms like Telegram, but advanced tools that you can use, where you can find bets that tailor to you and your preferences when you're available to bet. So historically it used to be, if you followed a tout service, you'd get a text message or an email and 500 people will get the same bet at the same time, and everyone's piling on that, whereas now you're seeing an evolution to products where you can log in. It benchmarks it against a Betfair, a Pinnacle, whatever other models are out there it could be data golf, whatever all these different sources of data and then translates value and then at that particular point in time it'll you can take the value that's available to you with the bookmakers you have. So we're seeing more of that a customizable approach versus they all. Everyone back the same play at the same time. 

41:58
So trying to examine those kind of tools is really interesting because you know you don't have a consistent set of results for everybody achieves. You need to build up a usage of it yourself and that takes a little bit of time. So that's where we're focusing energy at the moment and how we can really keep on top and review these products, which aren't traditional. You don't have those. You know same records for everybody and then um trying to present that and showcase people how they can make the most of it uh, you mentioned data golf in there and I just want to talk about that for one second. 

42:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, I know that data golf used to explicitly give out picks, so to speak, but I believe and you can correct me if I'm wrong in recent years they've gone more towards just projections. Right here are probabilities on tournaments. You can compare these against sportsbooks in real time. When you're evaluating these services, are you looking at strictly pick services or will you also focus on sites that provide projections, maybe don't explicitly give out picks in real time, but have numbers? Do you do anything in that realm? 

43:06 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
Yeah, we looked at DataGolf for that. That was a couple of years ago. We looked at it and we didn't actually publish anything because we found we didn't really find anything that we could latch on to. I think they obviously do influence the market and absolutely we'll look at things that even provide probability. You know, we can obviously start to use that and make projections and we can start to see if there's value there. But sites like that, I think that they're useful sites, but you need to feed that into your own model, your own working, and use it as a filter perhaps, rather than actually just use it on a standalone basis. 

43:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I do think that that's going to be the evolution in the space. Personally, Maybe it might take longer to get there, but there are some services now that are 24-7 projections. Basically right, Like you log in, here's what we make the game. You decide what you want to do with it. I personally think that that's much more valuable. It depends on your clientele. I guess there are some people who just need the pick and they need to go bet it, but they'll probably. A lot of people will probably just tail that at a bad number. Let's call it out for what it is Pick goes out at minus 135. It moves. Somebody is at the dentist or they're at work in a meeting. They can't bet until minus 150 or something like that, Whereas I think the live projection systems make more sense in the sense that you can do things on your own time log in, see plays. There's pros and cons of both, but I do think that the market might slowly move towards that. 

44:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The future is obviously like well, I mean, I obviously believe it's because we're doing the Bet sand player props tool, but the future is obviously allowing people to bet whenever they want to bet, at any time they can just like, check and then find the value at that time. Yeah, if you're doing an alert system, it's not really feasible for the sharper better. It's not feasible for the square better. Like the guy who puts wants put in 15 hours a day or the full day. It's, it's subopt for both. 

45:01
So, having it just there where you can essentially check at any time and I don't like any of this shit where you've got to run a simulation or do all this that's not to be honest, it's like a waste of time. It should just be like hey, where are the plays there? Okay, here I put in what I have, what I want. You shouldn't be looking and seeing plays on a specific sports book when you don't have that sports book available in your region or you don't have an account there. You should be able to exit out and then just basically get the exact customized thing for you. That's definitely the future. That's how it's moved in other industries. 

45:33 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
So the best value there, johnny, when you talk about that, the best value there is when you have outs that aren't listed on sites like that because you're the only person taking them. Exactly, yeah, and I've done that. I've done that here. It's a Spanish-based tennis service. It's probably revealing them, giving up on the secret sauce, but there's one that we reviewed. It's called Winner Odds. I might as well give it out, winner Odds, and we've done some stuff on there and I think probably I'm the only person in Canada who'd been hitting them for the past two years, you know, and they don't have the Vangels and the DraftKings and the Caesars listed on their site. So those, the Bet365s are getting hammered and all those different firms that, and they're Australian and Spanish sites but the Canadian ones aren't. I think maybe they've added a few more recently, but yeah, if you can find those ones where nobody else is doing them and the bookmaker's not got 100 people trying to bet on an ITF tennis bet at the same time then that's gold. 

46:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah makes a lot of sense. That's certainly an edge when you're one of the only people who is betting something sharp into one specific out versus when it's mass market, especially now with the profiling that goes on on people's accounts Service release supply 40 people all bet it at once at one specific sports book Traders just going in and just like every one of these accounts is limited, but when you're the only one doing, it's much harder for them to latch onto that. I did want to talk to you about a couple other things before we get onto our personal reflection section here. But about a couple other things before we get onto our personal reflection section here. But about a year ago I came on your podcast, the Smart Betting Club podcast. I've listened to a bunch more episodes since then. Pretty solid. Let the people know what it's all about, what's going on and where they can find it. 

47:19 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
Yep, so we're on all the major podcast directories like Apple, spotify, uh, youtube. Uh, we don't do YouTube video. I've tried to do that but it distract my guests. So, um, kudos to you guys for making that work. 

47:33
Um, yeah, so I've been able to interview a lot of betting experts, uh people generally people who make their bets and pay in different ways. 

47:41
So, you know, whatever different walk of life so it could be soccer, it could be golf, it could be tennis, it could be horse racing, it could be you know, all these different people from experts to originators, to professional bettors, to bookmakers you know we've had a whole variety of people on, even had, um, the head of the uk gambling commission, who's the effectively the regulator of the UK Gamla Commission, who's effectively the regulator of the UK, the iGaming Ontario head, and obviously I don't know if you follow that, but there's a lot of criticism, a lot of problems in that space at the moment, generally due to the fact they're pretty useless. So getting him on was quite good, you know, because it's the first time he's actually come on a show where he answers some difficult questions, and yeah, so it's actually been quite good and I'm just working out plans for the next set of episodes of Ring. We're just on episode 76. So we're going to be blitzing through a whole bunch in the fall. See another Americanism. 

48:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The fall, and I'm so tempted to say autumn, autumn yeah, I was going to say yeah, I was gonna say what could it be the you? Well, yeah, the autumn, I guess. There you go, like you're, you're speaking, you're, you're, you're Canadian. 

48:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Now, yeah, earlier you said you'd like to have a tea after your dinner. I was almost gonna correct. 

48:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You say don't you mean supper, but no supper is like have you, have you, ever called it supper in your life? 

48:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
not once. 

48:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think that's like a very eastern canadian thing I think that's a very eastern canadian thing for it to be supper personally, but uh, yeah, that's, that's a weird one. Um, we're coming off bet bash. A couple of weeks ago, you actually ran a one day betting event in london called smart bash. Yeah, I don't know where you got the name from or if there's any sort of trademark issues there, go for it. 

49:22 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
I can tell you. Yeah, go for it. So originally it was an idea between myself, the Smart Betting Club and a site called Bookie Bashing. So Smart Bash was the two. What do you call it when you have two words together? I don't know, there's a term, but that's why. 

49:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not sophisticated. Math has always been my strength. Uh, the english language is not. Vocabulary has not been. But uh, what are the plans for that going forward? Is that going to be a yearly thing? What, what's? What's your plan running that? 

49:49 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
yeah, I'd like to think so. So, um, we work with matchbook um on that event. So we have the, the organization involved. They brought in a bit of the logistics towards it, um, and we had about 300 people at Chelsea Football Club. So I was really pleased with how it went down. We had some, you know, a mix of rec punters through to some of the big syndicates and big bettors in the space there and, yeah, it went down really well and I think we're going to see if we can perhaps recreate it next year Still to have those discussions. 

50:28
It's, um, it just seemed a really good opportunity to meet and connect a network of other people, um, and I think a fair bit of business was done that day. So, yeah, it was good, fun or challenging, because you know we've never done anything like that. You get out your comfort zone. You know you used to sit behind a computer, tapping away at your keyboard and placing a few bets, and then suddenly you're on stage in front of 300 people trying to make yourself sound intelligent, um, so, yeah, hopefully we'll, we'll do that again. So, um, still looking at plans for 2025 and if we can do it, we'll be back in london, I'm sure, and and trying to recreate the smart fashion perfect. 

50:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You can follow peter on twitter at pete ling one, and there'll be announcements on that If it does come up. Producer Zach has come through in the clutch. The word you were looking for was a portmanteau, when you combine two other words. 

51:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Did you know that I've never heard that word before? 

51:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've heard the word, but I would have never been able to tell you the definition of the word. So, producer Zach coming through, that's why we pay him the medium bucks behind the glass over there. Um, all right, you've listened to the show, pete. Uh, it doesn't have to be related to sports betting. It can be, if you, it's actually really evolved into not being related to sports betting. I can't remember the last time we had a sports betting related one. Totally up to you. One thing you think is plus ev in life. One thing that you think is minus ev sure? 

51:42 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
um well, we have a mutual friend search and he's been messaging me all week with his plus ev and they're terrible. I heard the one that you read out on the bet bash live show. Was it crossing the road? 

51:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
don't wait for the yeah yeah that was he has also sent me a few as well, and one I can't read on air with certainty that one was a good one. 

52:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
His best one that he's ever made was one that we cannot read on air with certainty that one was a good one. 

52:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
His best one that he's ever made was one that we cannot read on air, unfortunately because he sent me one before as well. 

52:08 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
I said I'd read on there. He said, um, where am I? I'm just gonna read it out. Um, uh, there's something about his neighbour. Here we go, that's it. One he sent earlier today intrigued me because he said negative, ev is fighting with your neighbour. It's very rarely worth the stress to fight with someone you see very often and you can't depend on them for common things like taking out the trash, picking up the mail, etc. Now, I don't know about you, but that triggered in me an immediate warning. 

52:43
It was like what has he done to his neighbor I, I what's going on there. 

52:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is a good one. I'll tell you right now um hey, don't you hate your neighbor? No, I don't, I well, so here's the thing. 

52:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, I'm stirring up shit, we can cut that out. No, no, no, no absolutely nope, no problem. 

53:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The neighbor on my right side will not listen to this episode. Guaranteed Neighbor on the other side. There's a chance that he might. But it is very important to be able to rely on your neighbors for stuff. Right now I'm watching my next-door neighbor's cats while he's away in the Bahamas. Whatever I go over once a day, put some food down, it's no problem. But then you know he'll watch my dog and my tortoise Tortellini while I'm away. He'll feed him. It's just good to be in that situation where you just have another person that can help you out and when you get into like there's lots of neighborly situations I've heard about before where people just get like really, really cheesed and upset about it and it like it's. It's honestly not worth it. Just stay on your neighbor's good sides. I like that one from surge yeah, that's finally a good one. 

53:49 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
I'll give you mine. Mine is, mine is mine's drive-thrus. You really have to play it. It can be negative evie or plus evie and you know we all like drive-thrus these days right, especially in the winter. 

54:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Um, I have no idea what you're saying drive, drive-thru drive-thru, drive-thru, like a starbucks or tim hortons. 

54:07 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
What do? 

54:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
you drive through drive-thrus, drive-thrus. Yes, okay, I thought you were saying drive-thrus, drive-thrus okay I love a convenient drive-thru? 

54:16 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
yes, I've agreed yeah plus ev, so you're well, it can be negative EV, but this is what I'm saying. You get to Tim Hortons and if you've got, you have to weigh it up based on the size of the queue and the amount of times. I see people getting into a queue which is 10 plus cars long. They're going to be in that queue for 20 minutes. 

54:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I love how he's calling a line a queue. Oh, this is so good. 

54:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I actually love this take by the way, it's basically like evaluating it's a game of expected, determine the expected value based off of the line and whether or not you're going to go in or go into the line. And so many people just don't do this because they're lazy. They stay in the. I'm sorry to interrupt you, pete, you can finish your thought. 

54:59 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
No, we're on the same page. And what all I would add to it to make it plus ev. Get the app order on the app. Five, ten minutes before you get there, park up. There's no one in that space right next to it because they're all. They're all in their drive through and uh, just go in 30 seconds, you've got your. 

55:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You've got your tim horton's terrible coffee and you can get on your way well, I thought I thought this was a Tim Hortons infomercial, when you were telling us to download the app, but then you threw in the terrible coffee, so at least it wasn't. No, this is that's a good take, very good take. 

55:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Evaluate the drive-through line. 

55:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you are going, if you're also like going to an appointment or something where you need to be on time and there's a drive-through line. 

55:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You can't get out once you're in. You can't. 

55:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're toast, especially if it's one of those with the longer curb and stuff. So don't do that. I mean I have guys that show up at the golf course all the time like half a hole late and they're like, ah, I got stuck in the McDonald's line getting an iced coffee. It's like, are you stupid? Like, get out of the car and go inside and take two minutes instead of waiting 20. So I I liked that one. I didn't think we were going to get. We go to some weird places with these plus EV, minus EV. What do you got? Okay, you're throwing to me. Okay, both of these are food takes. Okay, plus ev. Because it annoys me like maybe nothing else in life, when you go to a restaurant and they go and seat, you immediately check if the table is wobbly before you sit down. There is nothing worse. There's obviously a lot of things worse. 

56:38
I like to exaggerate a lot, but when you're eating at a restaurant when you're eating at a restaurant and that table is wobbling while you eat. Tell me you can actually eat without getting annoyed? You can't. And then they try to come over and be like, oh, that pop like a couple things to try to it never works a couple coasters. It never works, so just how often how often does that happen to you? 

56:57
it's it happened to. I wrote this in my phone because it happened to me recently and I'm like this is not happening to me again. So I would say it's rare right, like maybe 10%, one out of 10 times, but it ruins the entire meal. I'm not exaggerating when I say it ruins the meal. Like I lean on the table. It's bouncing. You're like imagine cutting a steak, you know. 

57:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You're like messing up the person in front of you too by cutting too hard tables, going everywhere. I agree you wobbly table check before check. There you go. 

57:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll support you on this plus cv. Just it's really quick. Right there's, they're seating you at the table, you just quickly give it a little nudge sometimes not in the table. 

57:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's the surface. 

57:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It could be that you could be on a patio and it's it's wrong spot or whatever. But you just quickly tell the server excuse me, I'm sorry, the table's wobbly. Can I get another table? And that's easy. And then she's going to go and look for another table that's not wobbly. She's going to make sure so I like that. Okay, oh, massive. This is. This is bad, not because of like I don't care. You share whatever you want to share, but no people who are looking at the picture. They cannot put the they don't have. There's taste buds. Don't try. No, taste doesn't transfer through the picture. I posted a picture of a pizza last week and there was like it was an amazing pizza, very, very good, high quality pizza from a high quality Italian restaurant, wood oven pizza, delicious. Some of the responses, very positive, some of them I'm like why would I ever post a food picture again in my life After? 

58:45 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
that red beet risotto, this guy doesn't like olives. 

58:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This guy thinks it's like. You know, I'm eating from a terrible pizza place. I don't know why I do it. I'm going to stop. I say I'm going to stop. I probably won't. Yes, the beet risotto that my wife made, like a few years ago. I got absolutely sewered for that, that risotto. 

59:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That was a good risotto. It looked pretty, it was obviously homemade, not a restaurant, but it looked great. Johnny's steak. 

59:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So good my steak, bro. I'm getting rinsed for that. I mean, in fairness, that's how I like my steak. Yeah, I know, it wasn't the. That's a rare steak. That's how I like the steak. 

59:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The people didn't know that that barbecue too, couldn't get up to like the really high temperatures to make a steak Posting food negative EV take. That's confirmed, anyways. 

59:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I just want Don't post food pictures, because it's just like I Half these guys are eating. 

59:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Subway. Half these guys are eating Subway and complaining about these takes Well and complaining about these tapes. 

59:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I'm arguing with a guy about whether or not olives are good. I'm like what am I doing here? There's a pineapple on it. Someone's like oh, onions on a pizza, what's wrong? I'm like okay, let's move on here. Banger pizza, just trying to show that I'm living a lavish lifestyle. And people are roasting me on Twitter. Don't like that. 

01:00:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, I got mine here. I actually hate to shill a brand that is not paying me in any way, but I'm going to do it because I want the listeners to experience this comfort that I experienced on the way home on my flight from Vegas. On the way there, family member of mine said oh I just got this new neck pillow that you can use on a flight. You know you guys don't like regular neck pillows, like a memory foam pillow, but this one, it's a certain little, a certain fit it's. It's not necessarily just like a standard neck pillow. It folds up in memory foam, nice and a little carrying bag, very high end, and then it's like a bit higher at the back of the neck and there's three ways you can use it. You can use it right side up, upside down or to the side if you want to sleep, no matter where you are. 

01:00:47
And so I put this thing on, you know, while still in Toronto, before leaving my flight. I loved it so much. This thing was $50 on Amazon. I knew I was going to take the red eye home from Vegas. I bought this off of said family member for $150, three X retail value and and I absolutely stole it, stole it because I wasn't going to be able to get in time for my flight. They also had a flight which they didn't, which they weren't able to do this, but they the 300 bucks obviously reordered another one for 50 you both came up winners no no, no, no. 

01:01:28
Message me after said I can't believe I charged you only a hundred dollar bonus, I should charge you 500. I had the worst flight of my life without this neck pillow. And I'm to give out the brand name it's a Snuggle Neck Travel Pillow S-N-U-G-L. 50 bucks Canadian. So that's like six bucks US, it's like two British pounds. 50 bucks Canadian is like 35 bucks US. I've had one flight with it, absolutely loved it. Flows up in a nice bag, clips on the suitcase. I mean, if you're about comfort and experiencing a better sleep on the plane, I think it's a no-brainer. Obviously it's a bit on the higher end price-wise for a neck pillow, but I see people buying these things at the airport for $30. Anyways, if you're going to buy it at the airport, get this in advance. Order it off Amazon right now. 

01:02:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Anyways, if you're gonna buy it at the airport. You get this in advance order off amazon. Right now people go through security at airport. They buy seven dollar water bottles like exactly that's for comfort. 

01:02:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
People are just wasting money there's really no other option for that one they got. They got me in the monopoly, um. So yeah, plus ev move of the week is the uh, the snuggle neck pillow and, like I said again, that's this is a take for right now. I reserve the right to change this take in the future, but as of right now I'm in on the snuggle neck pillow. Second negative ev move of the week is committing to something and then bailing on a person after, especially when you know you're probably going to bail on that. Because, let's be real, guys, you say someone yeah, I'm going to be there. You know at that point whether you're going to be there or whether there's a chance you're bailing on that. Perfect example and the reason I want to bring up on this one was our our buddy, serge mutual buddy. He asked me you want to play golf at 7 am 7 am vegas time 7 am vegas time, 35 degree on the wednesday at bet plus yeah, to which I told him honestly, serge, I don't want to play. 

01:03:24
I'd love to play golf with you, but I can play with you anytime here in Toronto. I'm not going to go out in the 45 degree thing. I said I'll just tell you no now because I don't want to tell you yes and then bail on you when I'm at the tables at 5 am the night before and we have to leave in half an hour. He said you know what? 

01:03:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I really appreciate you saying this now and not bailing on me the day of All right, and I hate to throw a guy under the bus, but Pizzola bailed on him the day of right in the morning I bailed on him because my back which is still in shambles, by the way I went for three massages while I was at bed bash, that's how much I lied on last week's episode. I said I didn't leave circa very much. I left to go to paradise massage. Literally 10 minute drive is on sahara or whatever. I didn't know what I was getting into, but the massage lady was so good that I just kept going back. 

01:04:16
She just kept going back, I just kept going, yeah I mean, listen, actual mass to get your head out of the gutter people. But no, I did bail on it. I had a legit reason. My back was destroyed and still is still in pain, search so but I agree, this is I, I'm with you, you, you, if you're going to, if you're going to commit. 

01:04:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There's countless other examples at which you're you, you know you're going to bail on someone, like especially when this is the one I hate the most when, let's say, somebody texts me and says, hey, you coming tomorrow or whatever, and you know you're not coming, and they message you at 5 pm and you wait. You wait six hours to respond and this guy's, like he hasn't responded in four hours. He's obviously not coming. Just respond right away, rip off the bandaid. Hey, bro, bro, not gonna make it sorry about that, I'll get you next time done. You're just a much better guy that way totally agree yeah, it's. 

01:05:05 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
It's people waiting to see if a better offer comes up, right, waiting to see if another message comes in. Oh yeah, I'll make it now because nobody else has invited me. 

01:05:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah one of my close friends. I do love the guy, but he's the type of guy that doesn't commit to anything. But it kind of makes it seem like he'll get like four things to do on a friday night and he'll just decide last minute and then doesn't show for the rest of people. No message, no, nothing. That's the worst kind of guy. One of my best friends, don't be that guy who's just like waiting exactly like pete said for different offers to come in and then picking what's best you got you got to pick I, I do do this, which I gotta get better, and I do tell everyone yeah, yeah, bro, let's go for a lunch, but then we never go for a lunch pete's still waiting for his lunch that, that one I do. 

01:05:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I do a lot. I gotta stop I like it. 

01:05:53 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
I like the way this has become like a personal beef, you know, for airing your grievances against friends and things like that. I like the evolution of plus ev yeah. 

01:06:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I didn't think this. We probably should have just done one a week in the early going, but we started with two and it's hard to just go backwards. 

01:06:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Whatever we give, if you have one, you give one. No, but it's just. 

01:06:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I now make a note in my personal life. Whenever something happens that triggers me, I put it in. It's kind of fine. 

01:06:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I feel like the value is in the niche ones. If you're giving niche things, I know there's going to be at least 100 people that now check out the Snuggle Neck Pillow and they're going to get some sales off this I heard there's at least a few hundred people that are now putting grapes in their cold drinks. 

01:06:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's no way as ice cubes and Lazy Susan's in the fridge. That is a great one, by the way. 

01:06:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Don't even that one I didn't disagree. 

01:06:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One guy comes. 

01:06:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I wasn't on that. 

01:06:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One guy posts a message on Twitter, a video, and he's like, oh, my mustard always falls. Guy's flinging this Lazy Susan around. I'm like put the mustard in the door if it always falls off the thing. Oh my god, this what a segment. All right, pete, let's wrap up on this. If you could go back five years and talk to a previous version of yourself, what advice would you give to your former self? 

01:07:09 - Peter Ling - Smart Betting Club (Guest)
um, I would definitely think the getting out and meeting people and, uh, getting out your comfort zone, uh, trying different things. So what has really pushed my betting forward? And not just betting, but obviously the business is by doing things like the podcast, doing things like we've done with the smart bash, but not just that, but getting out. And business is by doing things like the podcast, doing things like we've done with the Smart Bash, but not just that, but getting out and really being on the front foot, getting to know people, getting to meet people, not always with an idea of like a quid pro quo, sometimes it's just about helping them and invariably it comes back in spades. 

01:07:37
So I think, just getting out Don't just sit at home in your own little space, gambling Twitter. Think, just getting out, uh, don't just sit at home in your own little, uh own little space, you know, gambling twitter is obviously great. You know a lot of people on there that you can engage with, that you can share expertise with, you can get to know. So I would probably say I would do, I would have done that a bit more, a bit earlier, had the confidence or the nows to go and do that and get out there and meet other people, because it's from that, those conversations and that you know that your, your betting and your business and whatever else you're involved in, can really develop. So that would be my, if I could cycle back just to do that a bit earlier and do a bit harder love that. 

01:08:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I love that. Uh, you can check out pete's website smart betting clubcom. Follow him on twitter at pete ling. One number one. Pete, appreciate you joining us today. For all of you out there who are not subbed yet to Circles Off and that's over 50% of you watching right now make sure you smash that subscribe button down below, set notifications and, if you enjoyed the content, hit us with a like as well. It does a lot for the Twitter algorithm. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. This has been Circles Off, episode number 168. Peace out.