00:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
welcome to circles off episode number 45. I'm rob azzola, joined by johnny from betstamp. Johnny, what's up? 

00:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
how are you, rob? We are live and ready for our fourth questions and answers, questions from the listeners. We're going to answer every single question that was asked. This time. We're going to roll through them while we're excited to do this one. 

00:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it's been a while. I think we haven't done a Q&A since episode number 32. For those who listen in podcast form, this will be our first one on YouTube. But yeah, a bunch of them came in and, as we are apt to do, we do review them all and divide them up into different buckets so that it's easier for you guys to follow along out there rather than them just being a bunch of random ones. So we've bucketed these questions into technical grouping, which we're going to start with first. Then we have a strategy grouping, which is questions about sports betting strategy. Uh, we have some other questions which are just miscellaneous and then, finally, we'll end off with questions about us, rob and johnny, specific questions related to us. So if you guys are bored by then, you can get out and save the 10 minutes of us two talking about ourselves. But we'll get into it, I guess as always. 

01:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Thanks everyone for the support, thanks for listening, watching, uh, liking, subscribing youtube, everything. We appreciate the time. We're going to get into it, as always. If you didn't get your question in for this for this episode, um, and you have a question, you can always dm us at betstamp, at circles off, or dm rob directly at rob pazola and we will. This is these are on twitter instagram. You can dm at at bet stamp and we will make sure we get your question answered to you in a timely manner as well. 

01:52
So, starting it off with an easy one here um, if you are taking off market prices at close therefore in brackets, no clv how do you evaluate if a losing roi is bad variance or just wrong process? So this question I'll take right here. It's pretty simple. So when you're taking an off market price, what's meant by that is you are looking at the total market. You see everywhere's got minus 110 and then at one book you can get plus 110. 

02:20
Now the off market price may not change because you're taking it right before game. So wherever you bet it at, that particular market price may not change because you're taking it right before a game. So wherever you bet it at that particular sports book may not adjust the line and therefore the closing line at that sports book may be plus 110. What you're going to want to do is compare it to the closing line at either the market consensus or at some of the sharp bookmakers, whereas you can pick one or two bookmakers and always compare closing line against those bookmakers. If you're looking to compare CLV, you can do that in Betstamp as well and you can choose what sports book you track your bet at and where the closing line value ends up pulling from. But the mistake here in this question is there is closing line value. It doesn't matter what the book that you bet the bet at closes. It only matters what the market consensus is or what a book that you deem to be sharp closes at. Anything to add, rob. 

03:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, I think that's. I think there's just a fundamental problem with the question where the whoever asked determines that they're therefore no CLV, which is not true. There actually is closing line value. It's just not at that specific book, if you're taking an off-market price and it's the only sports book on the planet that has that price everyone else is at a different number then you actually are obtaining closing line value. So I think you answered that one fine, johnny. 

03:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay, up next. So this one dates back to our Super Bowl prop betting special episode, and Luke Lay it. Luke gave out a pick Jesse Bates to get an interception plus 550. The pick that I gave out was Matt Stafford anytime touchdown at plus 1,000. So the question is and that's a little context for you the question is why was Luke's bet for the interception in the Super Bowl a bad bet, despite it winning, but the Stafford anytime touchdown was a good bet, despite that it lost? 

04:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
so, rob, I'll let you answer this one this one's a difficult one for people to grasp because at the end of the day, the goal of sports betting is to win your bets. You want to win money in the long run. You don't want to lose. So on a one bet basis somebody might say, well, this is a winning bet, it was a better wager. The. The reality is Johnny gave out Matt Stafford for anytime touchdown at 10 to one. 

04:29
I went to look at that number on Sunday. I was actually hosting a Superbowl party. My friends were looking to bet Matt Stafford anytime touchdown. It was in the realm of six to one at that time. So significant closing line value at your number, the Jesse Bates interception. 

04:44
The market really didn't move on. That Stayed the same over the course of the week. In fact, if you went to bet Jesse Bates interception right before the Super Bowl, some sports books were actually offering a better price than what Luke gave it out at at plus 550. His bet won, johnny's didn't. But the market agreed with Johnny, the market disagreed with Luke and I think in the long run if you're able to say, okay, that one and I got lucky. 

05:07
But I'm going to move on and in the future I'm going to take note of the fact that I didn't get closing line value on this bet. You're in a much better place Overall, I mean over a large sample. There's going to be a lot of bets where the market moves against you and you still end up winning. There's also going to be ones where the market moves with you and you still end up losing. But our best indicator of long-term success is actually not your short-term ROI, it's more so whether or not you're beating the closing line. So that's my response to that. 

05:38
At the end of the day, I mean, if we want to get into actual probabilities we talked about this on the Super Bowl special like plus 550 for a Jesse Bates interception Anyone out there who doesn't know what that means? You can convert any money line price to a probability that is roughly 15.4% plus 550. Even though he made an interception in the Super Bowl. I will go to my grave saying that Jesse Bates did not have a 15.4% chance of making an interception in the Super Bowl, whereas I believe that your price on Matt Stafford there was value there. So number of reasons, but more so the closing line value being the most important. 

06:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yep, I agree, for a single event, single bet, closing line values. Not everything can be manipulated, but in the long run, that is the thing, that to going to make sure you're winning or losing. We've talked about it multiple times. So that is why luke's was necessarily not the best bet, despite it winning and, uh, for the record, it did win, so it wasn't necessarily a terrible bet. If you had shopped that around and got the best price, you did okay, um, and that's the name of the game. So, up next, what do you think is the most difficult sport to originate, rob? 

06:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is obviously a question that was asked of us and I think, depending on how you polled different people who originate sports, you're going to get a lot of very different answers here. For me, the answer that I'm going to give has changed drastically from what I would have said maybe two or three years ago. But I think baseball is the most difficult to originate now, and the reason why is one there is way too much data you it becomes information overload at times, like when you add the stat cast data now on top of all the regular data that we used to have. That's one thing, but the second thing with baseball that makes it extremely tough is the fact that it seems to be the only league where there are changes in the dynamic of the game that are not that the league doesn't even acknowledge has happened. So, for example, juicing baseballs, where clearly one year, all of a sudden, home runs are up, the league comes out and says we didn't change the balls, we don't know what's going on. Obviously there was some sort of dynamic shift and then pitchers over the course of the year started saying this ball is different and whatever. But when the league itself does not acknowledge that there is an actual change. 

08:02
It makes it very difficult. You don't see that in other sports. You don't see the basketball being changed, the hockey puck being changed, the football being changed. It's um, and and if there are changes in those sports, they're more widely publicized than with what's happened with baseball. So for those reasons, um, especially if you're betting baseball, totals like you can only imagine the people who got absolutely murdered. I was, luckily, luck, luckily, not betting baseball a lot at that time, but for a couple years ago, when all of a sudden all these home runs started happening out of the gate, somebody who's modeling based off of historical data just got probably killed playing unders in baseball, and to each their own. But for me, I think baseball is the most difficult to originate right now. Yep I. 

08:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think I would agree. I'll move on to the next question, because it's very similar. So if you were to model a new sport which is not mainstream and in brackets putting aside stake sizing concerns and everything like that would you prefer to choose one where there is a plethora of advanced data or would you prefer to choose one where it is more straightforward but less data? So this is what rob was mentioning is like baseball has a lot of data. I would say. For me personally, I'd like one with no as little data as possible. The reality is, when you mix in more data and advanced stats, then two things happen. Number one you might think you have all the data, but you likely don't. So there's other people who may be collecting data, and there's other people who may be paying for or acquiring better data inside sources, with leagues, stuff like that, and on top of that, at that point it then becomes a math game. So are you the best originator in the world? Are you going to be the best data scientist, data analyst in the world? And likely. The answer is you're probably going to find an edge in something that's a lot smaller. So if I were to originate a new sport, it would definitely be one with no data. 

09:50
The thing I would likely end up going with is, like, one thing I'd have an interest in right now that I haven't touched because, like, the limits just aren't high enough, but something like a dana white's tuesday night contender series which is a version of the ufc. It's almost like a ufc minor league. For those who don't know what it is, it's there's a season and in in that season, every tuesday night, there's five fights ufc caliber fighters who are looking for a contract into the ufc, very little known. On some of them there is a history on some others, but ultimately the odds fly all over the place, meaning that it's very, very inefficient and you can definitely find some edges there. 

10:29
And that's something where not only is there no data on some of these fighters, in some cases you can't even find their fight history. So forget about like advanced metrics. You can't even see like what this fighter's like, where was his fights Like, where was his amateur record? Where was her fights? Amateur records, stuff like that, like it's not even existent on the web. Sometimes you might just see like this person won this fight. Doesn't show if they won by decision. Doesn't show if they won by submission, like can't even get base level data. So that's something that I think um would possess a bigger edge, and maybe one where info could much, much more importantly, trump the trump the data that you can find on that. 

11:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll go way out in left field here with this question, but I understand what they're trying to get at with the question. For me it's a little bit backwards. I would rather evaluate what the market looks like first rather than what the data looks like. So, for example, let's say you're following a market and this is just a pure hypothetical example but say you're looking into cycling and you notice that there's these head-to-head matchups and they're opening up minus 110 on each side and one of the cyclists is closing minus 250. That means that there's a major edge to be had there on the early number. Now you have to look at when is that market movement happening? Is it happening instantaneously, where people are betting it and you don't really have time to get down, or is that minus 110 sitting there for a long time right? 

11:50
For me, the market is more important than the data that's available for there, because you might put together the best possible model on a specific sport but might not be able to get down on it. Like it's something where the edges evaporate within 15 seconds when the market posts, or maybe it's a sport where there's no movement at all in the market at all. The opening lines and closing lines are very similar. Well, that either means there's no edge to be had or that no one is actually attacking this market. So for me, that's where I would actually start, versus analyzing what data is available. The end of the day, what good is a model going to be if you can't capitalize off it right? 

12:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
yep, I agree, fair enough, um, I think. For the question, though, if you're looking at what, where the data is coming from, this is even just one for you like would you rather something, though with literally no data, like a sport that you didn't even know existed, or would you rather something like with a lot of data available? 

12:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So my concern with the no data sports or limited data is that there's probably somewhere someone out there who actually has access to some private data set which is better than what's publicly available, and then you're always playing into that. I think that's more the case with the main sports. It can happen with everything. I think it's probably happening with nfl now too, if I I think there's going to be a data revolution in the nfl the next couple years yeah, definitely. 

13:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Some groups have more nfl nfl data. You have the, the whole, obviously soccer data, that's everywhere. 

13:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And then look at mlb, now like they release statcast, there's better data than that as well available for me, like on a personal level, what I think has given me an edge over the course of the time of time is my ability to apply logic to a sport. Um, you know, people say this all the time to me spank. I was messaging with spanky last week where he's like you're the only guy that I know that actually bets hockey well. It's not true. There's a lot of people that bet hockey well and in fact I've been losing my shirt on betting nhl totals this year. So that's not even true either. But the reality is on betting NHL totals this year. So that's not even true either. 

13:46
But the reality is I'm very good at applying logic to situations, so the more data I have at my disposal, usually the better. But then you get to like overwhelming states, like baseball, where you know there could be potentially be like a little flaw in the data that it just kills you, like breaks your model. We saw this with NHL expected goals. It came to the surface a few, you know, many years ago a couple of the rinks were just tracking the expected goals wrong, like the shot locations were wrong, and messes you up. So I mean to me, give me the, give me data, I'll find a way to make it work. I prefer working with more than less, but for me it's more about the market than anything. I mainly bet NHL because there's not a lot of successful NHL bettors. 

14:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think you're right there. Okay, moving on, if I have essentially zero Excel and other app skills, is there an easy way to build models? I'll take this one quick. I think the answer is unfortunately no. To build models? So I'll take this one quick. I think the answer is unfortunately no, there's. Building a model doesn't necessarily mean running a SIM game or running numbers for a game could be obviously other things that you might might do in order to find an edge, but if you don't have any like Excel skills or coding skills or anything where you can quickly crunch numbers, it's going to be very hard to like find your own edges, and the best bet at that point is probably just like looking for discrepancies between different sites and hitting some stale lines I would agree. 

15:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean it's it's just very challenging to do so. Um, like you said, you got to be able to run numbers in some capacity and you're getting to a level where it's just not stuff you can run your head. I do think that there are people that are capable of beating sports without running models. They, you know, just inertly. They have the um, a way of looking at what's important in a game and being able to make a rough estimate. It's kind of like some sort of calculations happening in their head. But if you're looking to build like a sophisticated model, you need to have some understanding of statistics for one, whether that's just introductory level stats or more advanced. You need to be able understanding of statistics for one, whether that's just introductory level stats or more advanced. You need to be able to process numbers quickly in some way, whether that's Excel or some sort of programming language like Python or R. 

15:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, okay, up. Next, what resources would you recommend to a novice gambler looking to learn and improve? Should I pay for training courses? I'll take this one right off the bat as well. Best resource you can have is your own ability to learn. I've said this multiple times there's no better learning than you looking at it yourself. I can tell everyone on this on this podcast a million times. You got to line shop. You got to track all your bets. Until you really do line shop, track everything yourself and realize the amount you're saving and betting and winning from that is never going to have any impact. Best resources you can use are going to be number one an odds comparison tool, preferably Betstamp. Number three, the ability to track all of your wagers and see where you're winning and where you're losing, and you can do that also on Betstamp. But those are the only tools you need to become to go from a novice better to a winning better. You need that and you need the hard work and the ability to learn from your own betting patterns. 

16:48
The courses that you you hear people try to teach courses and things like that. Most of the time they're like data science courses that just have a sports betting spin on them right. They're not going to teach you how to win at sports betting. In fact, I would say there's absolutely zero value in those courses in terms of actually directly winning at sports betting when you exit. There's absolutely zero value in those courses in terms of actually directly winning at sports betting when you exit. There is, in fact, value in those courses when it comes to actually looking at how to evaluate lines, how to build out other things. But the things that you will learn in those courses are not going to help you win at sports betting in the short term. They're going to help you figure out your own ways to win in the long term. 

17:22
So best thing you can do before you take a single course is actually open up every sportsbook account that's available to you, compare odds between every site, start tracking your wagers, start seeing how you're doing, start analyzing closing line value, analyzing the mistakes you're making and the successes you're having, and then go from there. 

17:41
If you then want to learn more about math, if you then want to sharpen those skills and then go from there If you then want to learn more about math, if you then want to sharpen those skills, there's a lot of courses you can take. Some of them are the sports betting specific ones that you'll find about on Twitter, and others are just regular, like academy classes that you can find from those online servers that might tell you how to be better at Excel or how to crunch specific numbers or how to learn how to code, and things like that. That's my long answer, but I things like that. That's my long answer, but I'm really passionate about that. I definitely think that all of the tools you need are available for free and it's really just a matter of applying them. 

18:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You skipped number two. You went number one and then number three. I don't know what you have. I don't know what number two was. You were very into your points. You're like number one. You got to do this. 

18:21 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Number three Zach, can I get a fact check? Is that? Did I do that? I'm pretty sure you said number two, you needed a tool to be able to check what books you're doing well on where you're not doing well. Yeah. 

18:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So maybe I was not paying attention enough to hear you say number two. We're going to play this back afterwards and we'll figure it out. Okay. 

18:40
It seems like it's more likely that you said number one, two and three in order and that I was just, you know, reading the next question or drinking my water or something, and then called you out for no reason, as I am apt to do. I personally learned through experience, so this is a very difficult question for me to answer. And when people say that, how did you learn through experience? I lost a lot of money when I was young, betting on sports, plain and simple. And then you get to a point where you're like what am I doing? Everything that I'm doing is not working. I need to find some other process. 

19:12
For me, google was extremely helpful. Now it's much tougher nowadays to just learn things by Googling what you're looking for, because a lot of it is just SEO, optimized content. That's not really going to help you for no one, for people who don't know what SEO is search engine optimization, um, but it's content that is going to rank on the first page of Google, specifically designed to rank on the first page of Google, so you're not going to get much out of it unless you're looking, I guess, deeper into pages, so that's tougher to do. Um, I read books which, whether or not. I gained a whole lot of value on them. That was something that I thought was worthwhile. I use Twitter a lot. I use social media. Now again, just like Google, you're going to find a ton of fluff on social media, a lot of people posting pics. That's not ever what I was trying to do. I was always trying to learn more and more about the industry and eventually you'll find a tight-knit community of people who you'll say well, these guys actually know what they're talking about and I should pay attention to them a little bit more. And some of them were mean to me in the process. I didn't really care because for me, it was all about learning. But I mean, there's a lot of resources out there. You do have to filter through the fluff. 

20:22
I personally don't think it's worth paying for a lot of things, unless you're trying to develop a specific skill set. Like people all the time message me oh, I want to build a model. Where should I start? Well, do you have any introductory stats background? Like take an intro to stats? That's a course. It might cost you money. You might be able to take a free one online, but if you want to learn to build a model, you need some sort of statistical foundation. So that's a good starting point. 

20:46
So it all depends on what you're trying to do and whether or not you should pay for things. If it's to learn a skill, by all means go for it, because that's not strictly going to just be isolated to sports. A stats background will help you in other facets of life as well. A computer like, if you want to learn to code and you have to pay for training courses to do that. Well, that's a valuable skill set that you're learning. That's fine. Or should you be paying, you know, so that Vegas Dave can tell you who to bet on on a weekly basis, or some sort of you know tout hype video or something like that? No, I mean, you have to use some common sense at some point as well. 

21:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay, what are some good resources for college basketball teaser strategy? So we wanted to take a run at answering every question. I've never played college basketball teasers in any serious capacity, so I don't have an answer there. I'm hoping Rob does. 

21:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't either. I'll tell you how I would go about doing this right. You have a ton of historical data for college basketball which you can pull from tons of sites Wherever you want to. You're able to find the final scores of college basketball games dating back several, several years Now. You can sort by bucket, by total for the games, so like 140 to 145, 146 to 150, whatever and determine exactly how many times the game margin, the spread, falls on a certain number. So you can hypothetical numbers, just random stuff. But you might know that you know 20% of games extreme example land between one and five points or on exactly one point or whatever. So once you actually map out all that and using the historical data, you can tell exactly what each point is worth in college basketball. 

22:23
I did a quick Google search on this before we came on air. I did not find anything that was worthwhile. So I think this is something that, unless there is some source out there that I don't know about, I skimmed through two pages of Google stuff that was just fluff. I like to say fluff a lot. It was fluff, just stuff. That's SEO optimized, like I said. But I think you have to put some sort of historical data together to figure out what each number is worth in college basketball, and then you can determine specifically what teasing through each number is worth. Compare that to the VIG that's being offered and go from there. I mean it's. So the answer is what are some good resources for college basketball teaser strategy? I'd say yourself, like, figure it out. I don't I don't mean to sound like a clown, but that's like really, that's all I can say at this point. 

23:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair enough. Moving on, and again, sorry, I'm not a bigger help, I actually just thinking back I've never once played a college basketball. 

23:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've never. I've never, well, I've played basketball teasers when I was losing money and then I was like I got to stop playing basketball teasers because I'm tracking all my bets and I'm like I'm getting roasted. So no, I'm down 17 units. 

23:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I wish it was only 17 units man. 

23:36
Okay, up next, any suggestions for percentage of bankroll that you have in play on one given weekend. Call it football betting. Only, as this person asked, just wondering from a long-term growth angle, is there a sweet spot for the amount of bank roll you should put into play, given the variance? Um, I guess he's just asking, like, given the variance or risk of ruin, what are, what is the max amount of bank roll that you should put into play? So it's all going to depend on the correlation of these different bets. 

24:08
Yep, in theory, you can put your entire bankroll in play and churn over everything in one week, as long as it's like in over the course of one week. If you put, let's say, your bankroll for, for simplicity sakes, is one hundred thousand000. Um, and there's, let's say, seven days in the week, then you can, if you want, put 20 grand in play per day, which would be above the percentage of your bankroll, because you're not actually putting your entire bankroll on the line in one single spot for the entire, for the entire week, right? You're putting 20 grand, 20 grand, 20 grand, 20 grand. I would say there. There are times in which your percentage of bankroll that you put in play is going to be very high, I would. The only thing I'd caution here is like there's no exact percentage I can give. The only thing I'd caution is you never want to have above a certain percentage of your bankroll in play on one specific outcome or one specific game. 

25:03
So if you have are modeling mlb and there is like seven games that you like and in one game you like the total, the side, the uh run line minus one and a half first five total first five innings like you're going to want to be very cautious there when you're looking at actually betting mlb from the same model and you've got seven plays that all came from the same kind of source or same kind of model. You also want to be cautious there, especially if it's some sometime, like one of the earlier times, that you're doing this or betting this information out. So all I'd say is be careful when stuff is correlated. If it's not correlated, you can bet 100 of your bankroll in a given weekend. It's there's. There's really the same risk of losing that in one weekend as there is in losing it over the course of the year. It doesn't really matter over how short a period is. You just want to watch for correlation, that's it. 

25:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Agreed. I don't personally think that there's a sweet spot. I think a lot of these questions that are always related to bankroll or what fraction of Kelly should I use, or whatever tend to be matter of personal preference. Like, obviously there is a right answer. Some people are just not comfortable with the amount of risk. Like, if you're going to have a hundred percent of your bankroll in play on a given weekend and you're going to be sitting on the couch and it's going to lead you to, like an anxiety attack or something like that, then don't do it. I mean, the reality is everybody's got to be comfortable with what they're betting and understand that there is variance and that your risk or your potential for ruin does exponentially increase as you put more of your bankroll in play. With that said, whenever you have an edge, you should, you know you want to bet it, so it's, it's a. 

26:40
These, these ones are very difficult for me to answer because they're they're a personal matter for me. It's a these, these ones are very difficult for me to answer because they're they're a personal matter for me. I mean, there's many times where I have a lot of money in play. I feel that all the things I'm playing are significant edge. I want to get down as much as I can. Sometimes that leads to some really rough days. Sometimes it leads to great days, but if it's going to be, you know, if you're taught your risk tolerance is lower than that of mine, then lower your percentage of bank roll or lower the size of your wagers. I mean, that's just that's the honest answer that I can give to anyone out there. 

27:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, this is more of a personal preference to me, but if I, let's say you wanted to do it something that wasn't sports. So you're like, okay, I'm going to tie it to a coin flip where I have an edge, or a dice roll where I have an edge, you in theory, if as long as you're doing it on enough rolls and spacing out the individual bets. So let's say you had a thousand dice rolls today, you would in theory want to put over a hundred percent of your bankroll in play, as long provided you had an edge on that. You want as much money as possible in play. That reduces your variance. So, like I said, as long as correlation is not taking place, if you're betting six basketball games, six baseball games during the playoffs, six hockey games and then six NFL preseason, and it's during that key period where every sports on you got a golf tournament, like I would prefer a hundred percent of my role in play every single day If I could. That's the way that you're going to grow. 

27:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Provided you have an edge on those. Some people get misconstrue this, this, and we're not telling you to just bet a bunch of volume to reduce your variance. That's not what we're saying. But if you sincerely believe, on a college basketball Saturday, that there are 60 different games that you have an edge on, then betting them all is not a bad idea. Again, presumably if you have an edge. Now, if it's someone who's saying oh, I'm just going to bet a bunch of games because it's harder for me to lose that way, well, if you don't have an edge, you're actually more likely to lose your money quicker that way. So again, matter of personal preference. But I agree with Johnny Like, if I have edges on games, I'm going to fire. That's just, that's the way I'm built. 

28:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, we're moving on to the strategy side. On your last podcast this one was Rob. Rob, you made mention to three sportsbooks which have the true market NFL lines. Who are they? 

28:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, really quickly, I'll say this In general if you're trying to look at who has the truest lines in market, it's almost always the sportsbook that's taking the biggest bet at the time, because what's gonna happen is that's naturally where more professional bettors are going to play, since they're able to get a bigger wager. So we have a couple offshores in pinnacle and bet chris, who are taking pretty massive wagers on nfl games, including on game day, where they're taking uh, you know, at post sometimes 150, $200,000 a game, if not more. And then we have circa in Las Vegas as well, which is taking some pretty big size wagers in in that market as well. So those are the three. You can find the lines for all three on bet stamp. If you're comparing your sports book to those and you find an off market price, it's very likely that your off market price is worth betting. 

29:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yep, I would agree. So the next one is um, I know some of you specialize in props, small market stuff, some specialize in NHL. Um, do you guys trade college basketball and NBA full game markets at all with the injury news and NBA and the volume in college basketball? I think you'd have to. So the answer is yes, I try to. Wherever we can, we're also going to be betting that stuff. But, that being said, the NBA is not something where I originate my own stuff for the full games or for anything to do with college. I mean, I'm not in any way running numbers or models or anything like that. 

30:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't like the way the question worded at the end, with the injury news in NBA and the volume in college basketball. 

30:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'd think you'd have to. The volume is not a huge thing. The volume in college basketball is not necessarily um, does not necessarily make it worth it, fyi. So this is just the thing. Like volume X uh bet limits is typically a better thing to look at. So, like, technically, the volume in the nfl would actually be more. So you're getting a total turnover, total role in play, total handle will be much higher if you're betting nfl even at a smaller edge. So the fact that there's a lot of games doesn't really matter. 

30:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's also a lot of like ping pong matches, table tennis matches on a daily basis and on top of that, if I'm betting, let's say, college basketball as an example, I'm much more likely to have my account limited than if I'm betting NHL sides, for example. 

31:09
So I think that factors into it too, and the reason I took issue with it is like that. I think you'd have to. You don't have to do anything right to each their own. I think Johnny has bets in a very different way than I do. That works for him. He enjoys doing it. I than I do. That works for him, he enjoys doing it. I could really never do what Johnny does on a daily basis. It's just not. Maybe I could have at one point in my life, but at this point in my life it's not something that I want to do. 

31:32
I focus on NHL because it's more of a quieter market. It's easy for me to get a really large bet. I feel like I have a strong edge Reacting to injury news. Sometimes I get beat to market in NHL and it doesn't really bother me because over the course of the season I know I'm going to get enough bets to have an expected return which is worthwhile for me. I just don't want to have to be around all hours of the day to be able to pounce on NBA news or college basketball news. 

32:01
Mlb lineups is a perfect example, right? I used to bet MLB pretty heavily. In MLB you get your morning fill usually not a lot of edges in the morning because lines have kind of been beat up overnight. You get the majority of your edges when lineups start to come out for teams and Mike Trout is out of the lineup or you know whomever right. Or this is just a bad lineup a team put in a given day and you try to rush the market to get down. That really requires you being available all hours of the day because there's no consistency as to when teams post lineups as well, and in the summer I want to golf, I want to do other things, I have other priorities. So I think what this person is saying is is it is a great way to beat sports. I'm not denying that, but it's just not a way that I necessarily. 

32:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
it's like not a path I want to go down on regularly okay, in what sport do you consistently get the best clv closing line value or does it vary year to year? So this is a very tough one. The sport in which you get the best clv is going to depend on the type of bets you're making for that sport. Right, if you're steam chasing and picking off market numbers, you'll probably get the best clv because you're you're getting automatically instant clv. You know, if pinnacle is at minus 46 and you just pick up a minus 20, you got instant clv. So that's going to be your highest clv. So I'd say it doesn't really go by sport, goes by the way you're attacking and betting that market. So that's the answer for me. If I had to pick a sport for me, I'd say probably like nba for the major markets, but go ahead. 

33:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I mean it definitely varies year to year. For me when I was doing college basketball, for example, regularly is by far the best CLB I was getting. I think anyone who follows college basketball knows that those lines just move like crazy sometimes. Like you, you would not get that size of a move in any other sport. So if you're doing college basketball it's likely that for me now I'm purely focused on hockey and for some other sports don't really want to talk about specifically what they are right now. I would say that the clv is not as great in them. Hockey I have some influence over market. It's very difficult for me not to at least get some clv on the plays. But definitely varies and also the timing of the bets is important too. Right like if I, I could probably pick up nba now or some other sport, just a random sport, and bet it a day in advance and my clv would be through the roof yeah, for sure, at lower limits, exactly so that that matters. 

34:34
It's part of the equation as well all right. 

34:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Next question I'm really struggling with being able to get down my desired amounts on certain games while being unable to on others. 

34:44
I think it means being being able to another so with the purposes of the discussion, assuming the same edge on both. He's asking can you speak to how to manage traffic drastically different wager amounts across different bets you might have due to limiting? So if he's got a game at minus five, should he take the minus five, knowing he's only going to get a little bit on it, and then another game where he likes minus four and a half or minus ten and a half or plus ten and a half, whatever it might be, he's going to get his full unit on that. So what he's basically asking is is the variance from wager to wager going to hurt him if he's like betting, some stuff that he can get more on will be his best stuff and the stuff that he can get less on will be his worst stuff. So I will say it's a very tricky question. 

35:28
Yeah, it's a good one, and it wasn't even really asked as like a question. He's more of like a two part tweet here paragraph. So I'll explain to all the listeners here what I would do in this scenario. Inherently, what will happen is because you will be limited at certain books and because certain odds move faster. If you have a list of 10 plays you like and you bet the max bet on all of those, what will happen is six of the plays you will end up getting $1,000 down on, and four of the plays you will end up getting $17,000 down on. Those four plays are likely your worst four plays and those six plays are likely six positive expected value plays. So what you want to do is make sure that you're you're betting as close to flat as you possibly can Yep, so that you don't get burned by this right. You want to max bet everything. It's great, but what's going to happen is you're only going to be able to get the max on your worst place. So this is a serious problem. 

36:28
It's really good that this person was able to identify this and ask this question. 

36:32
There's no real way to solve it outside of to make sure you are not staking and like if you are still getting closing line value on the ones where you're getting the 17 grand down. You're laughing, you're good, exactly. But if you're continually doing this exercise and see that those first six plays you got CLV and then those last four you're minus two, minus one and a half, minus three and a half CLV, then do the calculation 17 grand times that CLv or times, whatever roi expected you can have on that it's probably going to offset the profits you might make on the first six bets. So in reality, what I would say is try to scale your bet sizing closer together and really evaluate this good way to do it track everything on bet stamp, sort and bucket by clv. So open all your plays list and see where it is and then you can see if your biggest bets are getting the clv or if your smaller bets are getting all the clv for you all right, yeah, no, I think that's a really good answer. 

37:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
that's exactly where it starts. So, um, where you are able to get more money down, are those plays getting closing line value? If not, then there are not edges in the first place and you shouldn't be risking more on them anyways. If they are, then're going to have to ask yourself whether or not you're comfortable with those, that amount of money on smaller edges. You know, you do get to a point at some point. 

37:48
I will say I got there where Kelly staking just doesn't isn't a thing for you anymore on some specific sports because you can only get in a certain amount down. So you just basically bet as much as you can and I don't think that there's necessarily a problem with that, as long as everything you're betting is an edge. Yeah, sometimes your smallest edge is going to be your biggest bet, but as long as everything you're betting is an edge, I don't see that as being a problem. I will say some people end up in a situation where they're basically betting let's use Johnny's example. It's an extreme but you have a thousand on a bunch of plays and then 17,000 on a on a bunch of other plays, but those $17,000 bets are at sharp sports books pinnacle, that, chris circa. If those books are where you're getting the best price and able to get the best money down, it's very likely that you do not have an edge. 

38:45
I don't want to say with certainty, but, um, we had Michael Craig on as one of our guests. Um, who's a pro sports better one of the earlier episodes and he made a. I would strongly suggest someone go back on Spotify, um iTunes, and listen to that episode, because I think it's a really good one. It was before we were able to do video, but he talked about, you know, doing his weekly figures and realizing that whenever he was able to get down a lot of money on a bet at pinnacle and it was the best price in market those tended to lose more often than not. 

39:14
So I also think that what matters here as well is where that those big bets are available on top of things, because, typically speaking, if you're able to get your biggest bet at one of those books and they're offering you the best price in market, they have access to tons of sharp information tons of information just in general. But specifically, what other sharp bettors are betting? And there's a very realistic chance that you're you're betting a false edge. At that point, agreed, all right, are betting and there's a very realistic chance that you're you're betting a false edge. At that point agreed, all right. What strategies? 

39:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
are helpful to avoid being limited by soft books okay I'll start here. 

39:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um. I used to do some consulting for um, so don't give away everything. I'll speak to this just like how anyone should think about it. I consulted for big offshore gaming groups. This includes Bovada, some other big poker and casino sites. Whatever, what strategies are helpful to avoid being limited by softbooks? Think about if you were a trader on the other side of the counter. They're very quick to profile bettors. Your initial deposit into a sportsbook matters for how you are viewed and the first several bets that you make at that sportsbook matter for how you are viewed. Plain and simple. New accounts are regularly monitored. So if you want to avoid being limited by a soft book, I'm not necessarily saying to go donk away a bunch of money when you open up an account, but don't go in there. You know posting. You know college basketball totals. You know on opening lines like it's a dead giveaway. 

40:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So would you say deposit more or less to start? 

40:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well. So if you do deposit more, you're going to get flagged very quickly and the accounts are going to be. They're going to keep an eye on those accounts because there's obviously more risk inherently more risk, when someone deposits more. So if you want to fly under the radar, you deposit less on your first go, because that initial deposit is going to tell the sports books a lot about you and whether or not in the long run, you're going to be a valuable customer to them. So I'd start with a smaller deposit and I would honestly probably place three to four, three, four, five plays on parlays or teasers right out of the get-go, not necessarily winning ones, but, let's say, treat the account like a recreational account at first. I think you have are able to sustain a longer. 

41:40
Um, you know that that account will be sustain its limits longer If you're initially profiled as a square. Now that's not to say that down the road you're going to always have those limits there's. There's going to be a time where you win a bunch of money. That account will be reviewed. They're going to change your profile to something. They're going to go through your account history. That's just. This is just the nature of the business, but in the early going it's easy to fly under the radar by just making some bad bets that's good advice. 

42:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Anyone who's listening to that. Um, I would second all of that advice. Um, I'm not going to give out anything else on this pod, as this is not my area of expertise. 

42:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The reality. 

42:26
Just think about if you were in the position of someone who is reviewing someone else's account. 

42:31
So if you were the, put yourself in the shoes of being a trader at a sports book, and on a daily basis maybe not on a daily basis, but let's just assume on a daily basis you not on a daily basis, but let's just assume on a daily basis you're going through accounts that have either won a lot over the course of the past week or past month, past day or whatever. What are you going to look for in that account that tells you that this player is a winning bettor? You're going to look for closing line value. Right, that's tough, because as a winning bettor, you want to obtain closing line value. But every time you do obtain a large amount of closing line value, you're setting off some sort of trigger to a trader. But your bet you can make your account have bet tendencies that look more like a recreational. Better. So, parlays, teasers in the early going, betting overs, betting favorites, money line these are things that I'm not saying are guarantees seven team money line favorite college basketball parlay round robin bingo easy. 

43:30
Easy for somebody to go into that account and say well, you know what, I'll let this happen a while longer. Right now you might actually have edges on all those favorites. They don't know that. It just looks like you're donking away plays right, betting six overs in a round robin on a given night. Okay, you guys want to make the foolproof strategy. 

43:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Here's what you do you buy ben the better's patreon picks, all right, you. You tail his picks to start the account up. Small money, 50 bucks a play. Then, after you're graded as a square account, you flip it, you start fading and you hammer hard. Big bomb bangers, big bomb bangers. 

44:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Do you know that this guy is actually down over 100 units since january 1st only betting one to two unit plays and his cards every night are like five, six, seven plays since we did the last tortellini challenge, rob and I've joked multiple times uh, we want to get rich. 

44:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You just gotta fade ben the better, just gotta fade ben the better. Oh, so funny. And then maybe about 27 times since that time, rob or I have sent a screenshot to to each other about him losing like 10 units in a day and we keep saying, oh man, we just gotta fade this guy and we'll get rich. He's literally down 318 units. No, I made that up, but he's down roughly 318 units since the time that we did the tortellini versus ben the better challenge. Just imagine and these are not on like small market stuff or like you can't get a lot down like, yeah, easily be betting a thousand bucks a unit here, easily be betting that. 

45:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know, that's 300, 300 million you would be up a thousand dollar unit. You'd be up over a hundred thousand this year. Just fading his picks now here don't. This is not advice for anyone. This, the problem with ben the better is this goes like. This flies directly in the face of sports betting hypotheticals. You should really not be able to fade someone over the course of thousands of plays and profit. 

45:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You should just be losing the standard four and a half percent or whatever Vig you're betting at, but this guy can't win. It's crazy, it's literally insanity. The run that biggest, won't stop talking he actually wins at esports, though. 

45:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've actually broken down his history of plays since the beginning of last year. He's positive roi on esports. He just gets shelled on every other sport. But listen, I I know people who, literally who, will actually subscribe to his patreon plays just to fade them. Yeah, I know, and I'm the kind of guy that's like I don't think you should really do that, because he's just a 50% coin flipper. He's going to win 50% of his plays over a large sample, but he doesn't. He wins like 43%. It's almost impossible to be as bad as him. That's why I completely understand when people are of the mindset that he's some sort of sharp sports better that's just sending out the opposites of his plays. Not only that, johnny, some of the plays he sends out are like the worst possible numbers imaginable. Like I couldn't even get that number if I tried. Like I see, I see like cracking plus one 30 NHL. I'll go look to bet. I'm like how did this guy not at least get one 40 or one 45? Like I don't. 

46:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I you line shop and pick the worst number and can't even know. But he might be doing this on purpose. All right, we're done. We don't know, yeah, we don't know. We're done talking about this. But um, we've man. Have we debated this so many times and like he can't stop losing, it would have been. It would have been insanely profitable. Like he gives him out before post, he's not even fudging his record he sent him out at 5 am this morning he sends him out before post and, like you, you could get. 

47:14
You just go on, the numbers are available. It's major markets, the unlimited limits, like for most of these things, like you know you're, you're able to definitely capitalize I will say one thing and we will move on. 

47:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I promise the one thing we do rag on ben the better. And we did have him do a challenge. For those who who don't know, he did a head-to-head handy comp, handicapping competition against my tortoise, tortellini, um, which is why we talk about ben the better a lot, because he ben lost that challenge to the tortoise who was picking lettuce with teams, um, which was very funny. But one thing about ben he does recap his plays and keeps an honest record. So I will give him that at the very least. He's terrible. He knows he's terrible, he knows he loses a ton, but he still does those daily recaps where it's like horrible, night one and seven, like that I will at least give him credit for for the attention, but it is what it is. 

48:09
Yeah, I mean obviously trying to grow his following as well, but he could be scumming. He could be scumming even worse, where he just ignores nights and stuff like that. 

48:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right. So we did want to touch on every single question that's asked, and we're're going to do that in all the future ones. Even if we don't have a great answer for it, we'll read it out and make sure we can give our thoughts. How much head faking happens in golf outrights? This is not a market that I actually have been very active in, so I don't have a good answer for this. 

48:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll be doing a disservice if I made something up from personal experience. However, I will say we did an episode which was our like mona lisa episode of this podcast, which was the interview with abnormally distributed which we did. I think was like episode 11. Very early on he talked a lot about the golf markets. We've seen him post some very big golf betting tickets in the past. He is betting a ton on them. He had mentioned about all the head faking that he does particularly early on in the week to alter the prices of player salaries on DraftKings. I'm not sure if you remember that, but basically he was betting outrights in the market to move prices so that the DraftKings pricing would be different from, or just to adjust the DraftKings pricing and basically like end up with guys that he wanted to bet on at cheaper prices, the DraftKings pricing and basically like end up with guys that he wanted to bet on at cheaper prices on DraftKings because he was able to get a lot of money down on DraftKings. So I'm sure it happens. That's a very creative way of doing it. 

49:31
I don't know if that's truthful or not, but I mean I found it very interesting and entirely plausible. But any market, I would think that there's some sort of head faking. That happens unless people are just starting to pick off the fakes very quickly and what that means. Like we've done an episode on this on market manipulation. It's another promo. We'll put the episode description below for YouTube. Anyone on Spotify or iTunes can listen to it. It happens in major markets, but then if all of a sudden you're trying to fake the market in a different direction and the market is just hitting it back every time, then it just stops to happen because it's a waste of money. And I feel like a lot of people are paying attention to golf now, so I'm not sure how well that's going to work anymore. 

50:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair enough, all right, moving on to the other section, and then we have a few questions about Rob and Johnny, so we'll try to wrap this up quick. I'm having a hard time this is a question that is a little bit sad actually so I'm having a hard time not playing online blackjack. Any ideas on how to sports gamble but not dunk away money at online casinos? I'm thinking of betting through a bookie, so that's not going to help. 

50:39
Yeah, the bookie thing. We can nix that because all the PPH sites are still going to have an online casino attached. Definitely not the answer, I would say. The real, true answer if you wanted to just get rid of this right now is you can self-exclude yourself on almost every sports book Should be all of them. You can self-exclude from casino, and I'd highly recommend anyone who is betting casino and is now becoming addicted to it which is a real thing, and you're definitely not alone. It's a serious thing that impacts millions of people across, uh, the entire world, and it has impacted millions of people in the past as well. So do not. You know, no fear, no shame. Self exclude is the best way to do it right now. 

51:21
If you wanted more logic as to why to not do this real quick, when you are playing online blackjack on one of these computer softwares, the hold is pre-programmed in. You are automatically going to be losing anywhere between one to 4% hold per every dollar you make. That is how much you are paying. So if you're betting $100 a hand hopefully it's a hundred or less and it's not a thousand a hand or 10,000 a hand is you can get very highly up there in here, when you are betting $100 a hand, what you're doing is you're you're paying $2 per hand. Right At a regular casino, this may not be as bad, because it typically takes a long time to play through a lot of hands. You know, it's like four hours before you're gonna play through a bunch of hands With online casino. 

52:08
The predatory nature of it and why in some cases it's not great is you can get through like almost one hand every 10 seconds. If you want to, you can just keep clicking and go through a hand re to. You can just keep clicking and go through a hand rebet. You just rebet. You don't even have to touch real chips. So the best thing you can do is self exclude right now. 

52:26
When that, if that, if you don't want to do that and you still want to play, just keep in mind the actual value that you're losing is every 10 seconds or 20 seconds or however often you're clicking that button. If you're betting a hundred bucks, you're losing on average, you know, maybe $2, $2, $2 and 50 cents. So calculate that and then say if I play here for one minute, I just lost $10. If I play here for two minutes, I just lost $20. How long are you going to end up playing with that mindset in where you can kind of go do something else with that money? So I understand it's an addiction. It sucks, but that is the way that I would try to explain it to someone who has told me that they've, you know, are having trouble not playing online blackjack. 

53:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, the troublesome thing for me about this question is that this person has identified that they have a casino gambling addiction problem, like it's identified in the question itself. I have a hard time not playing, hard time not playing playing online back blackjack uh, pissing away money at online casino, um, so this is like an addictive, an addiction issue. I've personally dealt with these when I was younger. I know lots of friends who have dealt with these. There's a lot of free resources out there. There's a lot of paid resources out there, but clearly it's at gotten to a point where this person needs to seek help. 

53:43
And I think if you're someone who's listening and you have some of the same tendencies where you just literally cannot stop doing something, even though you know it's a problem, then self-exclusion is definitely a first step at all of the online casinos which do allow that, so that you physically cannot play anymore. 

54:01
If you still figure out a way to somehow play, even after self-excluding, then it's gotten to a point where you need to seek help. In fact, I can argue that maybe you just need to seek help regardless. So I would look for a free hotline where you can talk to a professional about these situations and just go through it. They can advise. I'm not trained in how to deal with addiction problems, even though I've personally experienced some in my life, but that's the path you need to go down. I mean, seek help. That's just the reality of the situation. There's nothing to be ashamed about with these things. A lot of people have addictive personalities and just can't get over this stuff themselves. Talk to people, let them know what's going on and eventually you'll find a solution to your problem. 

54:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, moving on on the lighter side actually, I guess it's not even really on the lighter side Do you think an FTC or similar government regulatory body could ever pull off suing sports betting companies on behalf of consumers for some of the more shady practices live betting, delays, free rolling, withdraw, leg things like that? 

55:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So this is something where, again, I'm not sure, we're not lawyers, but we can give them some, I would ask. 

55:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think we're just going to skip this altogether. I would ask Captain Jack Andrews he's a much better person to ask about this and he's done a lot of research on this stuff. 

55:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Just one thing in regards to this one again, we're not legal experts. We talked about this before on a previous q a, where people ask us tax questions right, we don't. I can't respond to your tax situation just like. This is a legal opinion. But I would be very, very surprised, um, if the regulatory body did not give the sports books a warning first, like it's not something where I think immediately this goes to some sort of court of like oh you're, you know, there's a live betting delay or lag on. It would be. This is a an issue we'd like to see you clean it up, and then from there, something would happen yep. 

55:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What are your expectations for the sports betting market in ontario come april 4th? For those of you listening you don't know, april 4th is the announced go live date for Ontario and Canada. Will it all be app based or will you expect that we get physical books? Um, I I'm unsure right now on exactly how it's going to shake up. I'm very excited. I think it'll be very competitive and I think we will have a lot of different players in the market, which is the absolute gold mine for betters for us, the betters for the consumers, for people who want to line shop. You know this is going to be an amazing opportunity come April 4th, when all of the sports books come, to take advantage of these bonuses, to take advantage of the ability to line shop and go book to book and find good promotions and good prices and things like that, and really get your bankroll started. 

56:37
If you're someone who is betting right now and you know they're like yeah, you're like yeah. If this is you, this person's you. I'm good at betting. I like betting. I'm trying my best. I'm tracking everything. My bankroll is now up to $500 or $400 and I'm struggling putting it all into different sites or anything like that Best thing you can do right now take advantage of as many bonuses when you come up. That's the best way to build your bankroll. When you're betting $10 or $20, if you can pop a $300 bonus or a $1,000 bonus, think about how many units you just gained towards your bankroll. You put that in play, you grow it. Now you can start betting more, and not if you don't have an edge. No-transcript. An amazing experience in ontario for the betters. If everything shakes up the way that we hope and the way that it should. Nothing's guaranteed yet, but uh, competition is an absolutely beautiful thing for us, the betters. 

57:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
A little bit different from the U? S, because Canada has been a gray market for a long time as well, where we've seen a lot of operators who operate on native reserves, um at service Canadians who will now be applying for licenses as well, which is very different than what was happening in the U? S. So I think we are going to see a ton of operators um give operators, get licenses or apply for licenses in April. I do think there's going to be significantly more options for Canadians in terms of app-based or physical books. I think we'll start to see physical books down the road. I don't think it's going to happen immediately out of the gate. I haven't heard of anything yet. Physical books suck For me. It's not my personal preference, but I know people who would just like love it. 

58:25 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah for one time, but it's not for what we do. 

58:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
A physical book is like the same as going to a sports bar. Really it's not actually fun for betting. Like, think about it. Do you want to be holding on to what is essentially a receipt? And if you, you oh, I lost my receipt. Okay, you just lost out on your whole bet. Like, what is the what's? The whole thing has been optimized on apps. Already, going to a physical location is you know, it has almost no value on an actual betting front, in fact, negative value, because by the time you go up to the counter the line may move or something might may change. Or like you have to actually physically carry cash and then maybe hold a backpack or a bag or something like that, or a satchel. You have to hold on to your actual tickets. 

59:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you're Simon Hunter, you'll have to take a duffel bag. 

59:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, you'll take a duffel bag for all your, for all the $1 bills that are in that duffel bag. But I think, all in, it's not a good experience if you're just trying to bet, like if you're trying to be a professional bettor, if you're trying to be someone who's trying to win at betting. The physical sports book is not great. Where it is good is, yes, it is. 

59:28
It's a recreational experience, it's a cool opportunity to go watch a bunch of games. Grab a drink, get a drink comp. Go, place a bet, go to the counter. The thrill of actually cashing a ticket and getting the cash in your hand is definitely a lot more fun than like just seeing your sports book balance grow. But all in, I would say, without, without a doubt, this doesn't add too much to the ecosystem from a sharp betting perspective, or from a better perspective I would agree with that, although I will say some of my best experiences in life were in sports books. 

59:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jacksonville, pittsburgh, nfl I don't know what was it now three or four years ago would have been the Jacksonville upset Pittsburgh and went on to play New England in the. So it was the last time New England played the Rams uh in the Super Bowl. That was an incredible game for me. Tons of money down on Jacksonville, lots of people from Pittsburgh at the sports book. So every once in a while you just get one of those where it seems like it's a 50-50 crowd. Everyone's going nuts on one touchdown. You want to kill people when the other team scores a touchdown. It was a high scoring game. I am partial to that experience as a sports better, I've seen UFC fights like that, which are incredible Frank Mir Brock Lesnar One of the best betting experiences of my entire life. The first fight brock lesnar coming to the ufc. I bet on frank meir. Watched him get railroaded for the. The majority of the fight ends up with uh, with lesnar in an ankle lock, people going nuts like I. I love that type of experience. Yeah, fair enough but that's. 

01:00:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But that's like we're going to be the casual side of things. Sportsbooks are amazing. No, I'm kidding, all right. Last question on this other section who are the most? I'm going to let Rob answer this one solely who are the most overrated and underrated posters on gambling Twitter? 

01:01:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, I'm not going to answer overrated and I'm going to explain why, cause Joey Kanishka would be upset. Well, no, I actually think Kanishka might be underrated to be like I can't stand the guy, but he's hilarious sometimes and, uh, his account is definitely worth a follow and in my opinion. 

01:01:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm just kidding around, Okay, Uh no over. 

01:01:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Here's why, if they were overrated, I would just unfollow them. That's what I do. I don't, I don't and like some people get mad at me and they're like, oh, why did you unfollow me? It's like because I don't, I have a certain amount of timeline and I don't want it cluttered with like retweets of this garbage or whatever. So overrated, I don't know, because most of the people that I would consider overrated in the space I long unfollowed a long time ago Underrated an assortment of people here. 

01:02:05
This one's. I would call him a friend of mine now. We met him at the first Bet Bash. But Matt Landis is at under 1,000 followers on Twitter At Mlandis18. Props and Hops is a great podcast. He does a great job interviewing people on Props good dude. He's a. He's a great dude and he's actually like. He's a guy that went from being pure casual, better to like semi-pro, now like to the point where he understands all the sharp betting concepts. He's almost like a guy that you would if you were just new to the space. That's what you would want to become over the course of years and he posts good stuff. I definitely think he's worth a follow. 

01:02:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Matt landis great haggren nfl this guy just has matt landis. The only thing, the only thing about his podcast is a few of the guests that give out picks on there. Yeah, you're not going to win off of yes, outside of that great podcast. I know you've been on there, julian you won't win off my picks either. 

01:03:10
Yeah, and and that's literally what I was getting at is it was you who you won't win off the pick, you don't? No, I'm kidding, uh, but no, matt. Matt's a great guy. Definitely give a follow. I didn't even know he's under a thousand. Does great work on the podcast as well. 

01:03:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Hagrin NFL exactly as it sounds. Pretty sure this guy hated me for a long time. I don't care, I don't have, you know, if somebody's providing valuable content. He barely tweets Tweets, probably once or twice a month. Whenever he tweets something related to NFL, it is a gold mine. It's worth going down that road. I would highly suggest following him. You'd probably be upset that I'm even giving this out now because his account might blow up a little bit more, but I think there's a lot of valuable stuff from him. 

01:03:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Is it at Hagrin NFL? 

01:03:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
At Hagrin H-A-G-R-I-N. Nfl. What about his main account? His main account is a little bit uh, I don't really follow it. I think I don't know why it's like. You know, it didn't do it for me, but I'm specific to the NFL content. I think he's a very good NFL better. 

01:04:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What about Hagrin crypto and Hagrin BTC? I? 

01:04:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
that like follow TC, follow that one too. I think very highly of this guy, even though he might not think highly of me. That doesn't matter. Good follow. Next guy, andrew Mack ginge face killer. Now, andrew Mack won't appeal to everyone. He's a quant, he's a stats guy right, he's a stats dude. But if you want to go down that path, um, even if you're like more of a intro to stats guy, trying to learn a little bit more, um, he does have some books available. I also think that he tweets a lot of really good stuff for free. I think that's worth a follow. Quantum underscore sport. You know what I'm talking about? Uh, quantum sport, quantum sport, quantum. This guy is absolutely hilarious. I'm pretty sure he lives in asia. I think he's in japan based or something. I don't know whether he actually believes that sports are fixed or not, but his tweets about sports being fixed are so hysterical that I cry of laughter. But this guy's an actual better, like he's a serious better. 

01:05:27
But I was pulling up in his profile when he compares, like certain games, to wwe events and stuff and knowing, like tweets, how they're going to go before they actually go down. Is it's so. It's a an account that I think is a combination of good information, good sports betting takes and just absolute hilarity at points. Final one, crypto account noah riddell, r-u-d-d-e-l-l. Here's what I'll say about crypto. Crypto Twitter is worse than gambling Twitter. It is a cesspool of people promoting themselves, trying to sell something. 

01:06:14
What I paid real attention to was when Bitcoin hit an all-time high, which was roughly 69,000 US. The people who were calling for a pullback are the people that I think deserve respect and deserve to be followed in the industry, because anyone could have said oh, crypto, you know to the moon. Whatever it was like a given that it was going to happen, but it's the people who called for it to come back down. I think, from a technical analysis side of things, noah's very good. I think he's an entertaining follow. He's involved in the NFT space Now I would highly recommend um. I chat with him via DMS every once in a while, even though we have. I have no idea how we ever started following each other, but it's worked out. So that's the five, I think different accounts and what they bring, but to me you're asking me who's underrated. I think all five of those accounts are underrated accounts. 

01:07:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, respect, I didn't really bring anything to add to this conversation, so we're going to have to go with those five underrated. 

01:07:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Circles off on Twitter, underrated account, I would say. 

01:07:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Circles off. Lay it with Luke. 

01:07:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, he could have went in the overrated column Lay it with Luke. Lay it with Luke. Is now tagging derrick henry in tweets. Do you understand he's? He's actually tagging derrick henry and this guy thinks he can tackle derrick henry and he's tagging him in tweets. 

01:07:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Somebody tweeted us and said I run some sort of like youth athletic program, high school football. He's like I can set this up if you can tackle like a top high school recruit, and it was just like this isn't going to prove if you can tackle derrick henry, but if you can't tackle this kid, then we just call it a day no, but see, here's the problem with doing these competitions. 

01:07:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So here's the problem. Okay, what? If he does tackle him, then then we're gonna hear, for he's never gonna have an opportunity to tackle Derrick Henry. So if he tackles like some high school recruit or some good college back, we will never hear the end of it and it's impossible. The closest we'll ever get is like Brandon Jacobs or Marion Barber III, like a retired bruiser NFL running back. 

01:08:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We can't even get those though. 

01:08:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, we can't, but that's what I'd like to see. I really I'd. Look, I was a big marion barber fan back in the day, just because the guy never went out of bounds. He always cut back in bounds just to run over whoever it was that was trying to tackle him, but that's what it would have to come down to. 

01:08:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But he is tagging derrick henry on twitter now like he's like, I'll put some money up if we can get it done. I'll put some money up to get that done and make some content out of it. 

01:08:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But we'll see it has to be a bruising running back, like we've had office discussions about this. It can't be like a darren sproles, like that's just gonna run away from him and just like you're never even gonna put a hand. I want a guy that's going to run him into the ground, like directly through him. You know, when you like, you like swat a moth and it just turns into like a dust. 

01:09:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's I'm kind of with luke, though, and I think there's a higher chance that he can tackle him. Now, like now that I've been watching some videos I've gone back videos of what what videos are you watching? 

01:09:24
I've gone back and I've been watching some videos like it's not even necessarily about being able to tackle him every time. Obviously he's going to tackle him every time. But I'm saying like we we've set odds here. It's like it wasn't even that high. He's gonna tackle him one and like if he tackles him one in 12, you tell me that's a he's favorite. Tackle him one in 12, he's probably favorite tackling like one in five His best chance. 

01:09:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
now that I've thought about it. I've thought about this a lot too, and every conclusion comes to Henry just destroying him. He did also hit the Jesse Bates, but it could be one of those where you know, henry puts his head down and he's going so fast trying to level him into the ground that he just drops to the ground and maybe trips over him or something. Are you going to consider that a tackle, like I want to see Luke make a form tackle on Derrick Henry? 

01:10:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He might be able to do it. It's not going to happen. It's not favored. It's not favored. It's probability. 

01:10:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, I understand. The probability, in my opinion, is slightly above 0%. 

01:10:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair enough, and that could be true, but we'll probably never know. We'll never know. We'll see what we can do. 

01:10:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But we're going to hear it for a long time and he's going to continue tagging Derek Henry. 

01:10:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
A couple more questions before we close off. When are you adding golf to BetStamp? And then another question when are you adding esports to BetStamp? Golf will be up real soon. We're working hard to get that in. It should be a little bit more wild down the road. We're not sure on the exact date, but yeah, keep submitting and request at esports and then every time a request comes in it gets added to our list and then that helps push it along, no joke. So if more people want it we'll definitely add it in and hopefully soon Will there be bobby pizza pop-up shop at bet bash 2? So I think no? 

01:11:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
the answer is no, I'm I'm type 1 diabetes. I'm going to bet bash 2. I'd never pop up a pizza shop that's like that would too much pizza will actually kill me the pizza nova would actually kill me um type 1 diabetic. 

01:11:21
I can't have that amount of carbs. I'll be at bet bash 2. I secured my ticket today. Spanky said thanks, for he sent me a message. He's like thanks for supporting this bud. I responded I'm like, I'm not there for you, I'm there for the open bar nice uh, next one you mentioned you're a diabetic. 

01:11:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I wasn't in the question, but you mentioned you're a diabetic. Will tortellini, your tortoise, pet tortoise, outlive you and then another. When is he making a comeback? Some tortoises go to 100 years old. 

01:11:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Red-footed tortoise, I think, has a lifespan of 50 years. Tortellini, I believe, now would be either 10 or 11. So let's say Tortellini's got another 40 years. Do I have another 40 years? Honestly, that's probably right, I'm probably. It's like a toss-up. I years? Honestly, that's probably right, I'm probably. 

01:12:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's it's like a toss-up I, I hope I go, really depend. I hope I go before the seasons go in the next couple years before his life. 

01:12:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I, I hope I go before him let's put it that way because I don't think I'll be able to live. You have a pet like that your whole life. You see every day. It'll be heartbreak like I'll die within three months of him dying, if he happens. By way, this is a true story. 

01:12:28
I got lit up on Saturday night. One of my friends is doing like a backyard bonfire Bunch of beers. I was destroyed. Diana picked me up, drove me home. I get in, I'm putting my jacket on the rack, I turn. Tortellini is sleeping in his water. I almost had a heart attack. I walked. I was like diana, diana, come over, I could. I thought he's dead. I thought he drowned himself and she picked him up out of the water and he started hissing at her. So I knew he was alive because he's like oh you know, disturbed my slumber. Never in 10 years has this guy fell asleep in his water, his head just barely above. I thought that was it. I thought like he could have suicided or something. I didn't know what was going on. But like you're, you're drunk and you see something like that. It makes it exponentially work. Worse, it rattles you. And when is he making? 

01:13:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
a comeback. Once I was at rob's place and then, uh, I just like we heard something from coming from that room, like, and then we walk over and it was tortellini. He was just on his back like he, he, he, accidentally he climbed the wrong way, he he flipped over by mistake and he was just spinning on his shell. He was just spinning and he was kicking his legs slow but he couldn't get out and he, obviously he was in the wild. 

01:13:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If he's in the wild, he's dead unless he's some like a predator is going to come and take him. At that point that. So whenever other people he's very red-footed. Tortoises are very social animals, like he's not scared of people, new people come over, he's very interested in them. So he'll do what he can to try to climb and peek his head out over the edge of the thing. But sometimes he gets at such an angle and you hear like a loud thump, like you'll hear from wherever you are in the house, because it's the shell dropping onto his food dish which is like a tile slate. But it's depressing when you go over there and you just watch him play. 

01:14:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I try to flip him over really quickly because I feel the guy who fell asleep in his own water and also turned, flipped himself over by mistake and couldn't get back up, would have died in the wild. Beat ben the better in the contest he did beat ben the better. 

01:14:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um man, I forgot how good that content was. It was unfortunately on periscope, so it's not. It's going to cease to exist at some point. But the head fakes that he was doing because it was designed where it tried to make it as even as possible. And there's two pieces of lettuce and he was going to walk down and whichever piece of lettuce he picked corresponded to what his pick was going to be. And he'd get in between sometimes and he'd take like five seconds doing head fakes back and forth and then pick a side. It was absolutely electric, except for when ben tried to like make me wake him up at 10 in the night to do a like a last chase, a chase special. He's like this is not what I agreed to, it's like exactly what you agreed to. 

01:15:12
We make all the picks at a certain time of day and it was the final day of the betting contest and ben tried to sneak one more bet in there. I'm taking pictures. I'm like this guy's asleep. What do you want me? I'm not waking him up. You're not even going to eat the lettuce if I wake them up. That that was uh, but that was uh. That's the content I'm the most proud of in my entire life all right, rob pazola, what would you be doing with your life? 

01:15:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
second last question for everyone. I think we're probably around an hour 10 now we'll close it off real quick. What would you be doing with your life if you hadn't ended up in sports betting? 

01:15:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
so I would just be continuing down the path that I was on right, like I wasn't. I was a product manager at the score. I would probably be working for some tech company designing some sort of app. I would probably be a full-time bet stamp employee, just not betting, yeah fair and no, no ownership in the company, like I'd just be a product product manager. 

01:16:04
That's like I think that's where I would have went. I mean, it was very important for me when I was like not betting for a living, just to like work my way up the ladder, corporate ladder, so to speak. So I did have like a lot, a bunch of jumps in in jobs over the course of years and that's probably what I would be doing is jumping shimp company to company, trying to make more money, make my way to the top somewhere. Who knows where I would have ended, ended up, but that's probably what would have happened. 

01:16:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't know where I would have been. I picked up sports betting pretty early in my life and it just always has been there. So who knows where my passions would have been. I do really like trading different markets and stuff like that. So maybe it would have been a crude oil trader. I don't know Something like that. You know, maybe crude oil options. I hear there's a market there. I got a buddy. He's going to laugh at this and message me. I know you're listening. Okay, and then next, what is the minimum amount of money you would need? It's the last question we have. What is the minimum amount of money you would need to never bet again? And I guess this is, you know, recreationally bad as well. You never even just make a bet. You can't make a handshake bet, Can't bet five bucks on a lottery ticket, Nothing. What do you? What's the minimum amount you need? This? 

01:17:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
is a huge cop-out answer, but I'll explain. I don't want to give an amount because I don't want to disclose my financial situation to anyone or anything. Um, who knows who's listening out there? I'm not. I don't need to bet, period. 

01:17:27
I could stop betting tomorrow for the right amount of money would never be an issue in my life If I didn't participate in Superbowl squares or wasn't able to go to a horse racing track or play poker or whatever. It would not affect me in any way. I say that with 100% confidence. I could go cold turkey betting For me. I have specific life goals that are centered around early retirement. I know that there's a monetary value for me to get there. This is so that I can golf every day for the rest of my life. It's so that I can travel without ever having to worry about money. If I want to pick up and go to Portugal for a month and be there, I could do that if I want to go to. So I know what that figure is and that's what the figure would need to be. It's a cop-out answer. I don't want to say what it is, but I mean I'm probably betting for another five or 10 years to get there. 

01:18:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay, for me, I'll give you. I'll give you my answer here. It's me, I'll give you. I'll give you my answer here. It's tricky. Part of the reason why I want to have a lot of money is so I can gamble insane amounts of money on dumb stuff, big bomb bank, so. So, for example, like I'd love to be the guy who's not even good at golf but goes on the golf course and plays like 20 grand a hole I mean, I'm not even close to being there like jordan, yeah, I would love to be in that spot yeah, yeah, so I get 

01:18:48
that it's kind of like how much money would I need? I can't, I don't even have a good answer because, like I imagine I was like, yeah, you're like, you're a billionaire, but then like, what are you doing with that billion? Not that I would need close to a billion, it's definitely not, it's definitely way less than that. But I'm saying, let's say I had a billion dollars and then it's like I can't even go make stupid bets with my friends and like with other people on like the golf course and stuff, like it would ruin so much of the fun. At the end of the day, you only need a certain amount of money to live. It's not like you don't need that much money. And then a lot of people blow this out of proportion and then live unhappy lives because they they think they need so much money. 

01:19:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right, you, right. You can have a lot of your money doing a lot of your work for you. 

01:19:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, but even without that you don't need a ton of money to live. 

01:19:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
In my opinion, you know, like the, the well, not when you're getting bogos every day on Uber eats, right, yeah, I mean listen, uber eats amazing, by the way. 

01:19:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I got a. I got a. This is going to be good to the sports betting podcast. Uber eats limited my account. You guys are going to say this is crazy. Limited my account. You guys are going to say this is crazy, my uber eats account is limited. Can I guess why? I only was just. I was banging them, taking promos only. All I was doing was promos buy one, get one's 30 off everything. Now my account's limited, no problems. I haven't got promos in three weeks and everyone else here has gets promos. Everyone else I've ever seen come into the office yeah, promos, promos buy one, get one, buy one, get one. It's come to the point where I had to instead of like. 

01:20:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is exactly what it is you had to download, skip the dishes or something unbelievable door dash I'm on door dash and skip the dishes. 

01:20:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Now, on top of that, the disrespect. I've been using uber eats for four years straight, one of the most loyal customers and I'm and I'm out. Now they just limited all my promotions. I had to take other people's phone. Hey, julian, can I use your phone please? What do you need it for? I want to order uber eats. I order it off your own phone. I'm limited let's say I'm limited at uber. This is a sports book here. As if I'm limited, I got to use this phone and pay him back for his uber eats. 

01:20:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So crazy stuff. Do you think it could have anything to do with the fact that the driveway is an ice rink and that maybe the drivers said get this guy the hell off the list? Before I kill myself, it was long before that. 

01:20:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It was long before that. I'm certain it has to do with my bonus abuse for Uber Eats. I'm on a thing where it's actually I'm under bonus abuse. They're like this guy and he won't order if he doesn't get a bonus. I'm classified as that type of Uber Eats. 

01:21:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm surprised you haven't figured out any of the other Uber Eats scams yet. So one time me and Diana ordered shawarma and they put hot sauce on hers but not on mine. They screwed it up. Diana doesn't like hot sauce on hers, but not on mine. They screwed it up. Diana doesn't like hot sauce. I love spicy food, so I just went into Uber Eats. I'd say, like I'm going to eat yours, you can eat mine. But it was different because she wanted chicken. She doesn't really eat beef. It was a whole ordeal. I had to deal with this at home. Not a fun experience. But I went into the Uber Eats app. I filed a complaint. They refunded the entire order. They didn't even ask for anything, I just put. They asked what's wrong with the order. 

01:21:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, everyone knows you can do this. 

01:21:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You can get, but I never did this again. I'm not in the business of stealing from Uber Eats, neither am I. I'm not suggesting that. 

01:22:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But of taking advantage of their fair and offered promos. As Spanky says, hang a line, take a hit. You want to limit my account? A dynamic pricing? Now I can't. I literally cannot believe it uber eats to disrespect. 

01:22:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If anyone from uber eats hears this, I'd love for you guys to get the chance to make this right I agree, considering the amount that we have collectively spent in this office on Uber Eats on a daily basis, it is our platform of choice. We don't really want to have to go to John Hamm's platform. 

01:22:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm like 0.8 Uber Eats orders a day. That's what I was rolling at around 0.8 a day 0.8. 

01:22:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
0.8. 0.8 orders per day. 

01:22:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean, and I'm getting, and I'm getting getting limited. You know what these guys don't? If there's one thing they don't know, a vip customer, vip. 

01:22:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I should have my own vip host right now. They should be sending you to blue jays boxes and stuff like that. Like exactly this has gone off the rails. Well, what was the? It was the minimum amount of money you would. I can't, I'm not even giving it. Here's what I will say. It's much lower than the amount of money that I will make on betting over the course of my life, because you don't have to do the work correct. So that's not. It's not like oh, I can make five million dollars betting the rest of my life. You'd have to pay me five million to stop. No, and those again are hypothetical numbers, but it's uh, that's where I'm at. It's basically like I'd take a significantly less amount of money just to ride off into the sunset. 

01:23:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I would need more money than I projected. 

01:23:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Ride off into the sunset. You would need more because you enjoy betting. 

01:23:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But not even enjoy it. What's the point? You're going to restrict me from literally doing one of the funnest activities. I can't even go on the golf. I'm not even talking about betting. 

01:23:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But you have to gamble on golf to make it fun for you. No, I love I love golf. 

01:23:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I just like to get better, yeah, but honestly, when you're at my level, it's honestly. I'm there's only one way to go I'm a big grinder, I'm a hockey player, never played golf, uh, professional professional jetoni player. 

01:24:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I am by the way we told the story. We started an episode talking about you and mark how you said you'd never beat him. He'd never beat you in a hundred thousand games, right? Yeah we talked about that on air, correct? What game did he? 

01:24:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
beat you in? I didn't. I wasn't playing healthy, I had a broken wrist here we go. 

01:24:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I had a broken wrist, which he's been using every day. By the way, I'm a keyboard. I see him using his wrist I had. 

01:24:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I had an injured wrist from a previous game, so I was playing the game with one hand and he did win with one hand. He's won one game out of maybe our last 50. So currently I'm playing with one hand, so my left wrist is injured. Right now. It is what it is, but full strength. I'm not losing one, like he's beat me one time with only one hand and I beat everyone else one hand. 

01:24:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Can I offer an alternate scenario? 

01:24:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
you want me to play my feet only? 

01:24:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
no, I think that you're playing only with one hand, because you're fearsome, fearful but I haven't losing with two. 

01:24:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I haven't even allowed more than two goals to anyone with one hand, but he beat you. 

01:25:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He beat you a game. You said he wouldn't beat you in a hundred thousand attempts. He beat you on like game 13. That was at full strength. 

01:25:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm using one hand. It's a different thing 100,000 games. Okay, so am I going to beat Usain Bolt in a race? No. Okay, break his ankle, but it's way different Break his ankle. No, no, no, exactly. 

01:25:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's way, different Way different. Not even the same comparison. You cannot improve at that rate his ankle in a hundred meters sprint. You can. 

01:25:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He is getting better with every game that he plays, so so you might actually be as well, but exponentially lower than okay. 

01:25:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But if, if? 

01:25:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
usain bolt broke his ankle, would. When someone say would you say I beat him in a race? Please stop with this comparison. Would you beat him in a race if you, if you broke his ankle, yes, he would be right. 

01:25:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He can't hop to a finish line better than I can run. 

01:25:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So then, would you then go ahead and say I beat Usain Bolt in? 

01:25:52 - Zack Phillips (Other)
a 100-meter race. Johnny, what's wrong with your wrist? Yeah, specifically, we need to know. It's very injured. How I don't see a cast. 

01:26:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I cannot make this motion with the wrist. He's flicking the flicking motion. Make this motion with the wrist. He's flicking the flicking motion. I cannot make the flick of the wrist on my left wrist. 

01:26:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But you can still hold this is the highest anyone looking. 

01:26:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This is the most it will end up going. If it goes past this, it hurts and on this side it goes to this amount. Look at this wrist. 

01:26:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What if we give you a wrap Bang? What if we give you some like extra strength, tylenol or something, before a game? 

01:26:34 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I need a wrist brace, toradol. Isn't that what they use in the nfl? 

01:26:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yeah, we'll inject you just like they do in the nfl the advantage is this you understand that this is apples to oranges. 

01:26:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I say this Full health, I will not lose a game. Full health, I'm not losing a game, and that's fair and I stand by that. If I'm playing one hand, I'll probably win still one in 100. To which, at this point, I've probably won. I've won 50 out of 51. So I got to win another 49 in a row, which I will gladly do, be happy to bet that I win the next 49 with one hand. But I cannot be held to the same standard of playing with one hand, as I was making the bet on the assumption of two hands. Hence why you would never criticize Usain Bolt for losing a race with the one broken ankle. 

01:27:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, now Mark is playing with two hands, every game getting better, improving every game. It doesn't matter. You don't think after a thousand games he's going to be at a level that is substantially different to what he is at now? We're never going to accomplish this because we're never going to play 100,000 games. It's not going to happen. So what's going to happen? 

01:27:38
is you're going to win 500 in a row and you're going to extend it to a longer sample and be like look, I beat him 500 in a row. Obviously I would beat him a hundred thousand. You're telling me like this is the most ridiculous thing. 

01:27:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's a hundred thousand games it could be a pure Usain Bolt's beating me in a hundred thousand races, unless you're gonna say, oh, there's gonna be one race where he tears his quad, okay then that. But do you count that as a win? If that's the edge, you're gonna go on. He's going to beat me one game due to injury. 

01:28:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll take it the level of improvements. I could run 100,000 100-meter dashes. How much am I possibly going to improve? 

01:28:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Significantly if you train. 

01:28:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, but not to that level. That's way more genetic. Obviously, he's training hard, but there's a genetic component. Like you just have better wrists than everyone in the world, or is there some sort of like strategy that hasn't? 

01:28:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
been optimized in the game. These guys don't respect the game like no respect like there's different, different sports where you're gonna improve. 

01:28:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is more like uh, I don't even know like. Is this a sport? It's a game. 

01:28:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's like a game, it's a hobby absolutely zero respect for greatness in this office. Have literally won 170 of 171 games with one hand. No one is allowing allowing no more than two goals in any given game, except for one game in which I got a fluky loss, playing with one hand and no goalie, and these guys are not respecting fluky loss is playing with one hand and no goalie and these guys are not respecting greatness. 

01:29:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Fluky. Loss is still a loss, and no one is suggesting that you are not by far the best player in the office. That's not what's being suggested. What's being suggested is that you would lose one game out of 100,000 games, games up to five, by the way. These are not games up to ten either, because we play a quicken style. 

01:29:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Don't even need it up. I could use, I can, we could put them up to one. 

01:29:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So it's not like you can put them up to one. Put them up to one no, please stop now. 

01:29:38 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Johnny, I think I'm three and oh, against you in pool yeah, I'm not the best pool player. 

01:29:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm not the best pool player, definitely not, um yeah ping pong, table tennis, as people call it, air hockey. And uh, jetoni, I, uh, I put up a good fight. I'm not the best ping pong player, but you know good enough to get by jits and air hockey is where I usually take the cake. 

01:30:00
Played a bunch of bubble hockey in my day as well you know, but the kills the lower back though the bubble with the, with the left wrist the way it is right now. Listen, they warned me about aging when I was a kid. They said listen, someday you're gonna, you're gonna grow older and you're not gonna be able to play this game like you did, and I'm feeling the effects right now. I'm happy I can survive with one hand, but ultimately, when I get back to full health, take the season off. You know, maybe you go under the knife, get this, get this wrist fixed up. Prediction I will. 

01:30:25
I will make sure that that 100,000 games in a row comes into play. 

01:30:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
A month and a half from now, johnny's going to be complaining about his wrist at the office Four o'clock. We're going to wrap up work. We're going to head to the golf course down the street. Johnny's going to rip driver, hit his irons like nothing's going on. 

01:30:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's a different thing. You don't understand. 

01:30:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
understand what guys I'm think about the motion you have to do to to turn one of those like a table. It's a quick, it's a quick, snap, it's a quick snap of just your wrist. So if I'm having mobility issues in specifically, the best players can learn to play through injuries. 

01:30:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Just remember, yeah, and that's why I've literally won 170 games with one hand. How many? 

01:31:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
how many, how many professionals have you seen they win a championship in their respective sport? They go under the knife. Off-season surgery. We got people playing on torn acls and you got you're not even wearing a wrap or a cast or nothing, you have a sore wrist. 

01:31:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's how it would be medically defined sore wrist it's enough to keep me out of playing with two hands, but I will get back to health and I'm also trying to not play with two hands so that I can be healthy for the golf season and I don't have to make these excuses. However, it's a different thing. You're holding the golf club. Your wrist is not going all the way back I will agree that it's. 

01:31:38
It's a slightly different motion all right, we've gone on way too long. We literally may have to cut this entire section off. All right, everyone. Thanks for listening, thanks for watching, thanks for liking and thanks for subscribing. This has been questions from the listeners. We will see you all next week with an absolute big bomb banger guest.