00:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
welcome to circles off, episode number 60. I'm rob azola, joined by johnny from betstamp. What's up? How are you, rob? I'm doing well. I'm, uh, very much in golf mode, which is why I'm very excited for our guests this week. I attended the the RBC Canadian Open this weekend. It was a blast, and we do have the US Open this week. So we're going to welcome in a very special guest, a former co-worker of mine, legend around the office at Hardcore Sports Radio about a decade ago. You can follow him on Twitter at Gfeinberg17. He's part of the Mayo Media Network and Odds Checker US. He also loves Philip Rivers more than you love your own mother. Jeff Feinberg, welcome to Circles Off. How's it going, jeff? 

01:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
And as you sort of just read through my Twitter bio and make that Philip Rivers comment, I've literally had moments where I don't mean to go off topic but I'm genuinely concerned for every person in my life Because if I fell that hard for well above average Philip Rivers, it's really scary, should be really scary to everyone. I know where the relationship might go with my heart and and justin herbert if I fell that hard for significantly above average quarterback play in philip rivers people. 

01:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Um, I'll tell. I'll share a story about jeff you will. You may or may not remember this, jeff, but this is maybe in the first or second year we were working together. We were probably making like nothing peanuts to work at hardcore sports radio, like I'm talking, $30,000 a year, poverty line type of salaries. And Jeff was such a huge Rivers fan he wanted to get him on one of our shows. So he pledged that he would donate $500 to the Rivers of Hope Foundation if we could get Rivers on the show. Remember, we're in our early 20s. This is a big amount of money for us. Ultimately we couldn't land Phillip Rivers. It was very depressing, but that was a very classy move by you, jeff, to even offer up that $500 at the time. Big, big amount of money. 

02:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Yeah, weird. I don't know why I did that. I don't know. I must have still been living at home at the time. Rob, you know, on that salary I had to have been to be perfectly honest. 

02:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I was living in the street on that salary with the gambling debts I had at the time, but such is life. We move on now. Um, jeff, all right, let's, let's give everyone a bit of a personal background. We like to do that with our guests in the uh, in the intro here, let everyone know how you got involved in the betting space, jeff so you know, like a lot of people, I kind of just been betting forever. 

03:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
But, rob, I guess in many ways getting into the betting space just correlated with the fact that, uh, that decade ago I had an internship at the score and maybe I could have been in archives, maybe I could have been with like the boring people, but I got spun into the wheel of hardcore sam and shortly thereafter, cure, uh, you and a lot of other people who have gone on to do fun things in, in in the space in recent years. So I guess that would be my intro. That led to me doing a lot of like grunt work in sports media in toronto, working at the score, working at tsn, leading me to take a job at a startup that also didn't pay very well. But at that very place I met Pat Mayo and I was sort of at an age where I needed to move on and I was ready to move on and my wife was ready for me to move on, and I literally told my wife like no, this guy telling you like honey, like this guy, pat, like let me just stick this out a little bit longer. 

04:07
I have a really good feeling about this and, yeah, it's just created a lot of different opportunities for me to do a lot of different sort of freelance stuff and make a bit of a name for myself in the niche ecosystem and make a bit of a name for myself in the niche ecosystem that is golf. Golf Twitter. That has grown so much since I started. You know that part of it in 15, 16, but really since, like COVID, it's kind of exploded and and then an even bigger explosion as sports gambling has sort of become, you know, even bigger explosion as sports gambling has sort of become, you know, overexposed, I guess we could say in the last handful a bit of time. But all those sorts of things converging at once uh created this opportunity where I find myself today and to. I guess over the years, pat and I have been more lucky than we are good at picking golf, but we've had fun doing it and it has led to other really fun opportunities. 

05:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, you certainly grown your following in the golf betting space. You are kind of like a household figure now. I think a lot of my friends who didn't follow my content in my early 20s now know you through the advertised Twitter promos for Proline Plus, where you are a regular face, which I actually find hilarious. 

05:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Yeah, I find that hilarious too. I've never like I don't know I guess I don't mean to like shit on that thing, it was something I did, but I tried to tell these people, like you're having me speak right to ontario, I just speak to golf fans. They had me doing march madness. They've never even had me do a golf tournament. It's really that, that one deal and I don't mean to go off off track which, um, it kind of just shows you how like no one really knows what they're doing behind the scenes right now, um, and like there is kind of just money flying into anyone's coffers, I guess, but, um, I I don't. It's a really awkward relationship. I hope it continues. That being said, I I told them like I don't think they utilized me properly one time, um, but that's on them. 

06:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The check cleared fair enough, the check cleared and that's really all that's important. I guess we'll have to chat off air on the the deal specifics, because that's uh, that's probably one for the ages. We saw they definitely put a lot of money behind promoting that as well, because, um, it kept showing up on all my feeds. Anytime I'd search anything ontario, I'd see this guy's face pop up with a Proline Plus banner attached. 

06:52 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
I don't. Yeah, we can end that discussion. 

06:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Gioff I came from. Oh, by the way, I should fill everyone in that's going to be impossible for me to say Jeff, because I know Jeff as Gioff for years from a fellow coworker. So just in case anyone's wondering, that's just kind of like a nickname that Jeff had back in the day. I'm just curious on your take coming off of the RBC Canadian Open. I was there on Saturday at St George's. I know I don't think you were able to make it out because of the leg injury, which seems to be going well in terms of recovery. But what were your overall thoughts? Just watching on TV from friends who may have made it out, do you think the tournament ended up being a big success? 

07:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
I thought it was an absolute home run. Golf Canada St George's the leaderboard, every aspect of it, and as you, I think, mentioned off the top, my club is hosting next year. It's going to be an incredibly difficult act to follow that performance they put on at St George across the board. I think everybody in the golf space took notice of Canada and the fans, and then you know we're such a proud sporting nation to begin with, so I don't think anyone here was surprised by the outpouring of support locally do you think that the score bet is gonna have a crane hanging over oakdale next year for the canadian open? 

08:12
possibly. I mean that was an incredibly, in my opinion, successful activation. Just based on the retweets that you get like from people like whoa, I don't think I would go up there. I can do like a gondola thing like with my kids, like a six and a three-year-old a few months ago. I didn't enjoy that, so I don't think I would enjoy hanging being suspended up there. I don't need to be uncomfortable. 

08:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
My father actually did take the trip up. 

08:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Talked about it last week, yeah. 

08:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Did it live up? I have some pictures which I posted in the BetStamp Discord. We'll post the Discord link on our Circles Off Twitter account for anyone who wants to join that. But the view wasn't so great. It was innovative but it was just a little bit too far from the golf course. A lot of people's backs, like we suspected, would have their. You know a lot of people would have their backs to the course but you can't see anything. The chairs kind of swivel like a little bit, but you're harnessed in very difficult. I think it's just like more for the market. It's a. It's a genius marketing idea. Let's call it out for what it is Execution. I mean, I was there on Saturday. The crane was on the ground for three hours of the day where it didn't go up. I don't know if it was like calling for rain or winds or whatever, but we're talking about it again for a second straight week. So I think that's just a sign in and of itself that it was a well-executed idea. 

09:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's PR man. Enough about this PR. We're giving too much free promo to Proline Plus Proline. 

09:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Plus and the score bed are loving this episode of circles off, but are they? We're talking about any? You know this. You know this, gioff. 

09:47
Any press is good, press right yeah, yeah all right, um, I want to talk golf betting with you. You're one of the most widely respected um golf content creators and golf bettors in the space now, who's built up quite a following over the years. So let's say it's Monday morning. You just woke up, you're probably a bit hungover because I know you indulge in some Crown and Cokes on Sundays, usually, whether that's in the NFL season or just the final round of whatever Sunday golf tournament is what's the first thing that you're going to do on Monday to break down the upcoming golf tournament? 

10:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
I hate it, rob. I hate having to be right on the wagon on monday morning and the week happens so fast because you just have monday through wednesday, then your content dies and um, yeah, I just like to see what the odds are. What's first up there and then everything from that is like a pivot point of is that a good number? Is that just better than what dropped first? I just like to see the odds sort of roll out. I compared a lot, rob, to people who, like on a Sunday night you see those first football lines come out for the weekend, right, and like you're, you're so fresh on what just happened and what your eyeballs had and you think you make this opinion and you might even make a bet. But then come like Thursday, friday, you're like I don't really feel that anymore, like you're so past, like what your eyeballs thought and but it happens just so quickly. Um, in golf and for the purposes of content, when I first started doing golf, or when me and you started betting golf and helping Cam with his segments or just producing them, like I wouldn't even look at a golf board until a tuesday afternoon and me and pat had some early success doing he's like no, we gotta get the show out monday. I'm like monday, I don't want to look at golf yet. Like I'm still like into that, like my head's still about last week. But in the content realm that we live, if it doesn't get out monday, like it's pretty much useless because it's not worth the effort that you put into making the show happen because it expires. 

11:54
You know what's the latest. Someone's actually listening to the show. No one's down, like I'm not. No one's downloading it. Like at 8 pm on a wednesday, I mean, maybe they are, but you know what I mean. 

12:04
So the shelf life is small, but if we're at a course that they've been to before, then it's pretty easy. Rob, I mean you would know that it's a course. It's a regular stop Next week. We've got the Travelers Done Easy. You can just see the past scores, the past winners. You have your memories of it. You sort of know what player profiles work well there. Uh, it does get a lot more difficult in major weeks when there is such an unfamiliarity with a course, or when we go to places that are totally brand new or even, like last week, where they hadn't been for for a decade and you're just trying to correlate how the modern players will will hold up to certain places. So yeah, I don't know. My head is spinning out of the gate monday and it's usually just a lot of fat thumb refreshing, wondering why these websites have, like lpga and seniors, odds up but not pga odds up. 

12:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's really my monday morning now, are you processing those odds in real time on monday? So like, for example, you'll see opening odds, you'll see them move? Uh, you'll try to understand why the move is happening. I mean, I'm in the same boat as you. It's kind of. Why I find golf overwhelming is because the moves happen so quickly a lot of the times and you just really don't. For me it's not conducive to my schedule and the timing of the bet. But walk us through what that looks like. Are you opening up multiple sports books? Is there one that you, specifically, you're looking at as your, your, no, your early indicator of what the market is? Just walk us through that first hour or two yeah. 

13:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
So multiple sports books are up, but you also have an understanding of, like, the order for which they come right. I mean, for the most part they sort of roll out at a similar pace and like that one will never show up before that one. If it does. That is so weird. There was a time when one book that's normally first, like it was almost lunchtime and it wasn't out yet and you're like you're almost wondering if an accident's taking place over there, like what is going on, because no one else can can react and and yeah, you do see lines that like you think that's a great number but you don't really have a comparison to. And then you see another, uh, you know, open the guy up at half and you're like, well, is that number good, is that number bad? Like which? Which? What is the right number? I really do like. 

14:14
What I do love is that some books now allow you like a full cash out where it's almost like a move where I can bet that number. Like that number worst case scenario was good for me. If I see better, I can react to better. But like I'm happy if that's worst case scenario and if I want to pivot off that they get me full cash out. I'm also degenerate enough, rob, where I'm seeing all the lines where if something's good, if I've bet on something and it's going to move against me, no-transcript flagging a ground yeah, but it also allows me to pivot off of it as other places are making other moves and, like you said, my monday is dedicated to getting that show done. My monday morning is dedicated to getting that show done with pat. So I am actually at least you know it's possible I get burned. 

15:13
Gotta take my kids somewhere, but I am, for the most part, able to like see the wind. There are a few people I'm out there. People do like my content. That's flattering. But there are people that are far more methodical than I am that, in my opinion, actually like can move a number and, um, you know, I'll see what they're what, what they are up to, um and whatnot. But yeah, I don't. 

15:36
It's honestly like non-stop. Like, as you mentioned, my leg, I have physio on wednesdays, even on mondays, even after my show. I'm like, I'm getting stretched and I'm just sitting there on the table like like fat thumb refreshing, waiting, waiting for the other books, hoping the guy that's like 60 can pop up at an 80 somewhere you gotta get. So hitting one of these is hard and I think the numbers are never fair. And I like to have fun and you've got to have fun responsibly. 

16:05
And when you do outright golf betting you've got to be willing to absorb a losing streak, like I won three in a row and then I didn't win for like two, for like eight weeks, nine weeks. It was really frustrating, but it's part of it. And then you get to majors, majors, and you have people that want to like tentpole bet it. They can take a big l and they're not like coming in to bet the travelers next week and they're not thinking like, oh, I just need water to find its level on. If I hit my quota of outrights for the year, like, I'm fine. You know it doesn't have to be a major, but if you're just going to come in for tentpole events and do outrights, there's a good chance you're going to go oh, for five on golf events the four majors and the players without hitting an outright. That's just right. That is outright golf betting. 

16:47
So you know there are more methodical ways to do it, be it matchups and and other things I'm sure you'd want to um get into. But yeah, my monday morning is just trying to hawk like the odds and I don't think if you hit the favorite you're getting enough. I don't think if you hit the underdog you're getting enough. But this is the only outright golf betting landscape I've ever known, so it's the one I'm sucked into. But to make an outright golf bet or to pick a guy to win with 150 players, with the 8 trillion variables that can happen over 18 holes and four rounds that require the luck, I am just trying to project a guy to play well, like to be perfectly honest, like I'm making a bet, I think he's going to play really well this week. The win is just like an activation luck. Cherry, right, you know like how do you project a win on on pga tour golf. You know it's pretty wild, it's just you know something crazy about the, the cash out stuff there. 

17:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think that's very, very interesting. So you're basically getting your free roll in the book. Yeah, it's the other way around nowadays, you know yeah, it's completely different. 

17:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, there's so much to unpack from there. There's like a million things that I want to talk to you about. 

17:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
From that one I went went all over the place. That was great. 

17:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
So listen. 

18:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will unpack all these things that you said in there, cause I think there's a lot of good stuff, but I want to start with what you kind of ended on, which was um, you're, you're, you're betting golf outrights market. There's way more variance in this in the sense that you can you can literally go months without winning. You can if outright. 

18:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You could go the entire season without winning right. Yeah, especially if you're putting some real long shots, like near the top of the board. I mean, we've had other guests on who said you know there's usually not value near the top of the board. But if you're betting like 30 and 40 to ones, like you hit one a season to break even, you're not expecting to win a bunch sorry, won a season to break even, you're not expecting to win a bunch, correct? 

18:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I want to go through like the mental state of that, jeff, because that like that's always hard for me to deal with and it was something that I struggled with with golf betting, because you can literally, like, like I said, go months without winning, but your process might be sound and you don't really know it. So when you're going through a prolonged losing stretch like that and I know you've had some before what goes through your head? Like, are you re-evaluating all the things you can do you're doing? Do you just stay the course, like what's happening to you in real time, when you're losing on a weekly basis? 

19:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
like, for example, this season I had a pretty extended one. I was I didn't think I hit one between joe keem neiman at riviera and justin thomas at the pga championship, but in that period, rob, I had. So, like even my buddies who don't, they're like you're a second place wizard, and and those can be the most frustrating because second place is literally as hard as first place, like at least from the outright, like Monday morning perspective of it. So at least in that case, like I was swimming around the leader, so much the leader, the guy that won was part of my thought process. Like I'm, like no, I just got to keep plugging away doing what I do. 

19:56
There was a period of the golf season where that 20 to like 40 to one winner was being abandoned. It kind of was going above it and then it got to a point with Rom and Sheffield where it was kind of sticking in front of it. And that can be when that happens. That's going to be costly to me because I love living in that like 25 to 55 to one range. That's going to be costly to me because I love living in that like 25 to 55 to one range, because that allows me to have fun, make entertaining content where I'm picking like a, a handful, I guess, of uh, of players, but it's just something I I I remind myself all the time like it's going to happen. When I'm getting hot, like I'm prepared, thinking like this cold winter is coming, um, you know, I guess that's all all part of it. It's incredibly frustrating when you get blown out in golf like it's sometimes, like in football, like it's. You see, don't feel like you're seeing the board clearly, you don't know that you're making right decisions. My biggest advice to all my friends that do it on the grind is you just got to take the L's. The worst thing you can do is try to like chase it with a live bet or Sunday Like I don't want to turn one tournament loss into a three and a half tournament loss Good point Like. Or a two and a half tournament loss Like I have gotten so much better. Back in the day, rob, I used to like try to chase an L all tournament and that got really expensive. When you like really got screwed on sunday or the guy guys don't hold their leads and there's so many trap doors um, outside of me. Like majors are different. It's father's day. My wife's just giving me the couch and the keys and it's all mine and the masters. I might find myself overexposing. That's like how people might bet the super Bowl or March Madness. 

21:41
I I'm not here to say like I like part of. I think what has made me successful and it might not work for everybody is that I've stayed true to like. I'll still like bet with the God, I'll still bet favorites. I'll still be emotional about personal like biases. But I do get to have conversations each week with the guys like behind the models, entrenched in the models, and you know they'll throw my perceptions and like tell me how like false reality they are. And and then I try to like make a blend, uh, of it. And you know in this concoction that you know spits out picks. 

22:17
I'm not beholden to to any kind of model, it's, it's golf. If a guy can't pass your sunday eye test, I think he can make that like big 10 foot putt like. I don't care what the math says, right, I know like that's weird in like a pitcher batter matchup sort of way. But like to bet a guy, you have to truly believe that he can like it Much, I guess, like the base, but it's not a team, so I guess there could be a lot to unpack there as well. I have a lot of fun doing it, but my best advice is just take your L and move on, because there's 48 other weeks of these and it gets messy when you chase them. 

22:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So here's the issue, though all right with the golf and not chasing your bets. For the average recreational bettor, guy betting looking to have a fun time, let's say you place five outrights, Jeff, on Wednesday. Thursday come, you're looking, okay, you have some fun. Thursday, Friday comes not so good a day. Three of your five miss the cut. One guy's 10 strokes back write him off. One guy's five strokes back, write him off. One guy's five strokes back. Saturday leader pulls ahead. All your bets are dead, but you still want to sweat on sunday. How do you not chase? That's the problem with betting golf. 

23:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Outrights is people still want to sweat the turn you got to. Okay, so that's part of it. And like if you're single or you're home and the wife's taking the kids out and you're just gonna watch golf all day, then I'd say, like better make an entertaining bet. Like I'm not saying not to bet it, but like a full chase can get really expensive. Like that's kind of I'm not saying you shouldn't like make another bet on the tournament. You're not allowed to be entertained on the weekend because you made bad bets. Uh, I just mean, like you know, just be responsible. You don't need to turn losing one tournament into losing two and a half. But again you can do that and then you don't have to make another golf bet to the next I have. I'm in this position where I want to like not hate myself. On Monday morning I got to like do the travelers, I got to do the Sanderson farms. So I try not to like put myself in those positions where I like hate myself and hate looking at a golf board. 

24:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think okay. So I was just going to say that. But that's the one like thing about golf outrights, because they're over four days and there's like you're not, really like you're not, you're out of it. Like you, you could lose your bet on the on the third day. It's still a live bet, but you have zero hope of winning it. So like that's the problem with like for the, for the fun of it, it's like how fun is it, man, when you have like a guy in the final pairing, like you're, that sunday you're sweating hard. 

24:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's usually like a plus 3 000 great time yeah, listen, I completely get what you're saying and, jeff, you've probably experienced this as well. For a long time I was doing dfs golf, right, and you enter the max lineups in a tournament, you enter your 150 lineups. Whatever most of those lineups you're gonna have like 70 ownership of one guy. That guy misses the cut. Okay, like all my lineups are now dead. On saturday, am I going to be prepared to watch the weekend golf without any action in it? No, it's difficult to do, but it's it's like the balance of recreational versus you know, spiral spiraling down that you lose your total shirt, like you lose, you go one in seven on an nfl sunday. 

25:40 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Should you try to win all six of those l's on sunday night football, or like, just get like one in that one, like you know, just bet it like a game, like it's a game, like one game. That's kind of just, I guess what? What I mean? Don't get me wrong, my card is over. It's sunday morning. I want to bet a guy six to one in that second last group, a couple back, because I'm gonna be sitting and watching it. 

26:02
But I'm not like trying to make the whole week perfect. I guess um is is my, would be my, my point and and again I'm speaking as someone that's like getting right back on the wagon next week. That isn't just like doing tentpole tournaments. So it's. It can be a very different perspective. I have buddies just like for the us open. Like you don't bet golf, who should you bet for the us open? It's so weird that I would say I don't know, pick two of thomas rom and scheffler. But if you like bet golf, I'd give you like my card with guys between 30 and 50 to 1 and say, no, do this. Like it's a really weird like thing I, I don't know, that's golf's. Uh, yeah, golf's. 

26:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Weird like that, I guess I think in in outrights markets um, that's not uncommon where, like, someone will ask me okay, who should I bet? And it's like. What's Like, are you trying to maximize your expected value or do you want someone in contention on Sunday likely to be in contention on Sunday? 

27:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
that might not necessarily have the best value Right. 

27:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So you know, if I'm, if I'm telling one of my friends who's going to watch the major you know the U S open all week I'm probably going to, you know, recommend someone who's likely to be there on Sunday, that way they can have a sweat. But going to recommend someone who's likely to be there on Sunday, that way they can have a sweat. But if I'm talking to another one who really understands betting and their goal in the long run is to maximize their EV, then I'm going to give them the best EV place, and that might include somebody who's at 150 to one, who has a very small percentage chance of winning, but should probably be priced at 80 to one instead, or something like that. So I get that. 

27:38
I think what's really fascinating about you, jeff and you've already described this as the way you know, as you've gone through here is your handicapping style is like this amalgamation of all of these things. So there's like some data perspective, some of it is gut feel, some of it is listening to the people around you and who they might like. Some of it is just finding, you know, I don't want to say stale prices, but potentially off market prices or something like that at a sports book, if you had to boil it down to one, like something that is your true style, if you had to go with something and you could cut out all the others, what is it going to be for you? 

28:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
When it comes to golf, I believe you could be like the top three players in the world If you had to stare them in the eye like tied on Sunday, like I get, like I, I like to make a goal, like the thing with golf betting too is sometimes like, okay, that like could be a great number. I don't think you're going to win, so like, like that's an 80 to one, it should be 50, but it's like I don't know, I don't like you to win the tournament, so that doesn't mean anything to me. It's not like getting two and a half points on a football on a on a football spread. I still have to believe that you can win the golf tournament. Um, but but so much of it now is just it's the data, it's the data and the gut. Like it's just this blend I need. 

29:09
I like seeing my realities and perceptions meet. Uh, right, like my eyeballs are telling me, yeah, everything is trending well for player X. And then I go on to the data and it's just showing like it's information bias. I guess in in that, in that data. But I don't know, I'm not afraid to. I get sometimes picking the same guy a lot, but it's worked for me because these guys are 30, 40, 50 to one and I believe like they're winners, I believe that win is imminent and I just like, feel like I I I've been successful in in identifying that player and then getting that win, like in the summer, and, as you mentioned, it only takes one to make that player profitable for you Sometimes. 

29:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, I want to break down. When you say the data, um takes one to make that player profitable for you. Sometimes I want to break down when you say the data. I want to break that down a little bit because that can mean very different things to many different people. And you brought up the baseball, which I think was a great example earlier of a lot of people would say, oh, you know, I use data for breaking down baseball. And then one guy would be like, yeah, I like to look at batter versus pitcher stats. And some other person would be like, well, why would you do that? It's a small sample, it's a complete waste of time. And he'd be like well, it worked for me over the years. 

30:26
And what I tend to notice with golf bettors is that everyone has a different opinion on what data sets are valuable. So you get people who are like course, history matters. If a guy has played well at this course, I typically wanna back him going forwards. There might be someone else who says, well, it matters, but it's already priced into the market. There might be someone else who says it doesn't matter at all, it's the course fit, it's how the course is broken down, more so than the history there. And then you get other stuff, like strokes gained, where someone's like I only look at strokes gained off the T approach, and someone would be like, well, strokes gained off the T, I mean, I like to look at a more refined set of stats which includes their accuracy versus their distance and stuff like that. So when you're talking about data, jeff, I'm curious as to what is valuable to you and specifically on the, I guess the topics of course, history and strokes gained Are those things that you think are valuable. 

31:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Okay, so I acknowledge like I am incredibly spoiled when it comes to this like matter. 

31:34
Just as an example, getting to you know, work with you a decade ago, when I say I'm into the data, that could have literally meant I got to turn my chair around and ask Rob Pozzola a question, like as silly, and then going to fantasy and having like just full access to turning my chair around in the office and getting to ask Pat a question, a question before you know. 

32:02
Now it's you know I'm very much um invested in support like fantasy, national and the type of things you can do there where you can pick your, your course conditions or your stat models, which stats you want to key in on this week and I I'm fortunate to get to speak to pat, to speak to people like, uh, rick game and I am I guess my situation is very like unicorny and that I have my opinions, rob, but I get. I am lucky enough to be surrounded by like people who are so deep into that other stuff that I can just make this total blend, but I'm very much into the, the, the golf data in the strokes gained, you know the approach, the around the green, whatever's pertinent to me that week. I like to load up and I like to see a lot of green trends around the players that I'm supporting. 

32:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, that makes sense. Now I want to pivot a little bit here to this week because we have the US Open. This is not a PICS podcast. We very, very rarely do that. In fact, last time I think we did, we had you on Jeff for the Super Bowl halftime special. But I want to talk more so about general strategy around majors because, again, I think there's a lot of differing opinions on this as well. Opinions on this as well. I tend to see people say at majors they typically only want to bet guys at the top of the board because the courses are going to play a lot harder. Looking at the course this week, I've seen the rough around the greens. I've seen that the greens are basically like glass this week, where like nothing sticks at all. Is that something that you typically buy into at the majors, where you just want to back the top horses, um, or is it just treated like any other tournament? 

33:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
no, I think you really do need to, especially the us open. They've given us a pretty clear player profile type and we go to these courses, rob, that we are very unfamiliar with, so that creates a lot of unknowns. So for me, the safety net truly is the prototype um, and you know, dustin, johnson, brooks, brooks, woodland, bryson, rom. I mean the usga is giving us a path and until they tell me or show me that I need to pivot, I think I'm gonna die on that, on that path, to be perfectly honest. And the other majors in many, specifically the PGA championship, can follow that. Uh, in the course selections that they do go to Um. And yeah, to your almost opening point, for major championships, I do believe in that Brooks Koepka theory where probably, like 78% of the field, you might be able to put an X through their name before we even tee off on Thursday mornings set up these courses to be extremely difficult or like. 

35:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Does that interest you more in watching the players struggle Like majors? We've seen majors before where players finish over par, which you know. You hear a lot of complaints at the press conferences afterwards about how hard the courses and so on and so forth. Just as a casual fan, and not a better, do you enjoy seeing that? 

35:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Yes, I do, I, I think it. I love see what the usga does. You hope that they can keep the integrities, the integrity of the tournament, for over four days. Uh, field integrity would probably be my most important, you know, factor in in a major. But I do enjoy that. But I, like I said, this kind of goes back to rob, like I'm in this, I'm on this train for the entire year, so I'm part of it when it is like 26 under, like at craig ranch and and when we have the, the swing season, so I get it all. But I really do enjoy on these sorts of events. I don't, I don't doubt that, like last year when we made the turn at the us open and your leaderboard had like bryson, rory brooks, rom, louis, uh, morikawa, and it was just almost like a survival of the fittest finish and the rom hits those putts. I, I think that's the best I really do I. 

36:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I go back and forth with it. Do you have an opinion, johnny? Do you like harder golf or easy golf? Like does it matter to you or is this all the same? 

36:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Like okay, personally, like when I'm watching the tournaments, I like it more when it's kind of like not easy to get a birdie, yeah. So like it's like, okay, this is the hole where he could get a bird, like this is a birdie able hole, and then where there's another hole where it's like, okay, if he there's a shot, legit shot at a bogey. So if you're like watching and sweating a matchup, you're like, okay, this guy, they're tied, but this guy played one extra birdie hole and this guy played one less bogey hole. 

36:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So actually I'm up, I'm up right now, like I like that level of intricacy yeah, see, I go back and forth on it because we come off the canadian open last week, where the final rat of the final threesome wasn't a pairing, was finau mcelroy jt, who are just like carving up the course, but I found it finish with 19 under. What was the winning score, jeff? Do you remember offhand? 

37:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
yeah, I believe it was 19 yeah 19. Yeah, 19 or 18. But like. 

37:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Finau. Tony Finau shoots a 64 in the final round. Doesn't even come close to sniffing the win, nor did it ever feel like he was in contention. But I kind of like that. I like when guys are dialed in and like you see all those birdie opportunities and possibility for guys to just make up a lot of ground. 

37:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm not a huge fan of like the super, like a guy hits an amazing shot and like it just rolls off the green because the greens of cement, okay, I think that it's easier to, it's more, it's easier to come back and make some more exciting golf when, like, the winning score is like minus five for the tournament, minus four for the whole tourney, because then it's like it's not as much variance when you go like when it's an easy course. It's almost like, I guess, somewhat of a guarantee that, like, the golfers who are at the top of the board are going to, are going to win the tournament. 

38:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Yeah, and the problem is it's the fine line that it creates in the USGA fights this battle each year Cause they want to make it really tough. But to Rob's point, the second like you're not being rewarded for hitting a great shot, that's when it's not good, like to me, that's when you have now crossed a line. You should be penalized for bad shots, but great shots, good shots, you should be rewarded for them. And that's when the players, I think, really start to get frustrated and lose their cool is when they hit that exacting shot and it plays out as rob, as rob mentioned and and we've seen that with the usga like they've even admitted mistakes at the end of days, where they get weather or certain situations wrong and they totally lose a course and with it, you could argue, they lose the integrity of a championship well, I guess, technically, what should the, what should the cut line be for a pga tournament, par, even par, if even, no, no, even less, even a cup, I think you can. 

39:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You can be like a few over and and that's a good cut line, because it's usually cut lines usually roughly 10 strokes off the lead. So 10 under would be like playing fairly easy. So let's say five over as a cut line. 

39:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Um yeah they. I don't really know exactly like how that stuff works. But what I'd say is I I'm way more entertained when there's like it's kind of difficult and you can really just scope out like okay, a par is is nice for a hole, and you might you might get a bogey in like two birds or three birds per round, and then that way it's more interesting when someone does make that birdie so my theory on this is that a lot of people would agree with you If the birdie is the norm. 

39:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not that fun, I agree. But I think my theory on this is a lot of people agree that they like to see it more challenging because it makes the pros look like them when they go play the course. Like you know, rufus, a mutual friend of ours, is in Boston this week and he was watching like some practice rounds as they set up for the us open and he's messaging me yesterday saying these guys cannot hit out of the rough by the green side, like literally 40 of the shots. I'm watching them practice around the green. The ball is not getting out of the rough. 

40:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Yeah, I know, I'm hearing great quotes like these guys hit the ball out of the rough and they approach the green like they don't know where their ball is. And that's like us raw, like we hit a ball, like we knew it got up there but like we don't have a clue where it is, and that's such an amazing like to hear that being said about them, like you're literally going up there to find your ball, like that's what we do every single time we play on they got the spotters, but like, but people so, but the spotters don't like. 

40:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The canadian open played very easy like extremely easy. Yeah, but I would I was on the 18th hole watching drives come down and they go into the rough and the spotter would go over there and mark it and point it out. The golfer and the caddy would go up there and they still couldn't find their ball because the rough was so deep that they actually had to look. They'd have to call. They would spend a couple minutes still looking for the ball that they knew exactly where it was. 

41:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's a little bit ridiculous yeah, okay, I guess because, like for us, if we're on the course, like we're swiping the club, like we don't care about. 

41:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're kicking our feet, you know, like trying to it's. 

41:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's a bit of a joke when rob's moving his ball onto the fairway I'm always giving myself a line. 

41:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know, you notice how I always find my ball in the woods and I have a line to the green. It's not by accident. Like you know, I'm not going to be that guy who's chipping out like backwards. 

41:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know what I'm saying. If Rob punches out of the woods and he's like I didn't have a line he punched out, that means he really lost his ball dropped another out of the pocket and then punched out. 

41:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, I'm kidding, he's not even a cheater, he's a big sandbagger if you play for, if you play people for money, but that's why I don't play him for money. Jeff, when you golf um, I know you'll be back out there soon, hopefully. The leg recovery you know the leg heals well in time for you to get out for some some rounds this year. Um, how honorable are you when you're on the course like? 

41:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
are you treating it like you're a pro when you're out there with your buddies, if we're playing for money, then that's like different, like then we'll have our rules. I will never hit from a bad lie. Like I don't mean like I won't hit from the rough, but I mean like no, I'm not even keeping a score, like I keep score, but I just mean like it's not like hardcore. I'm not if the ball's beside the tree, I'm just gonna like put it where. It's not a problem like I don't care. 

42:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, you're not. You're not breaking your club on the bridge that's a different situation. 

42:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
We've got to sort of deal with that. We'll make our game rules, but uh, any way other than that, no, I'm gonna hit like I'm gonna just take a better lie and hit my bad shot that way, honestly I agree, for our level is like where rob and I play like it just makes the game less. 

42:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's so much less enjoyable if you have to like hit out of hard, rough, because then you're like put, or even if it's like uh, but like if your balls right in front of a tree. 

42:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right, like I'll play with some of my buddies who are like they'll like I'll move the ball and they'll be like, what doing? I'm like we're not on the pro tour here. First of all, I mark that as a stroke every time I move it anyways, because I want to keep my real handicap. So like I'm still keeping, like it's just I'm not actually hitting the shot where I have to go backwards and like you know what I'm saying, like, give yourself a lie to get to recreational amateur golfers who are like, oh, like it's basically a happy gilmore. Right, the the rules state you must play the ball as it lies. It's like, what are we doing here? 

43:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
um, yeah, I'm glad you're in agreement with us, jeff jeff, when are you going to be able to get out for a round of golf? How's the uh situation? 

43:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
lower body injury like a couple weeks. I'm thinking like I'm pretty close. I kind of kind of got the end of this month like earmarked, to be honest. 

43:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So we'll see it would be yeah, it would be nice to play uh again this summer. True story I played at jeff's home course, um, which will be home of the canadian open next year and in 2026 I believe. I think it's two years right um what course? Oakdale, beautiful. There's 27 holes there. I can't remember which um which two nines Jeff took me out on. But I would like to get out again, jeff, because I literally played the worst golf of my life on that day. I played again and I'm gonna. 

44:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
I'm gonna invite Cam and I'm gonna screenshot it because I invited him last time too, like there's no way. I invited you to golf, rob and I didn't include. Think like oh, like Cam wouldn't like, let's just play the two of us. I'm not going to invite Cam, so that's why no. Did I tell Cam, like oh, it's my private club? No, I just said me and Robert golfing this day. I want you to come. I didn't like say like roll out a red carpet on an invite, um, which I guess led to some confusion through football season. There'll be no confusion next football season. We'll put it that way. 

44:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jeff is referring to Cam Stewart, who is a host here in Canada, who we worked alongside for several years. But yes, the raging redhead as he's known, everyone at every horse racetrack in ontario will recognize him. Every casino in ontario he will get recognized as well. But yeah, cam was, uh, he I. I reached out to him last year beginning of summer. Give me some dates that we can get out me, you, jeff and I. I can't remember who I was going to invite as the fourth, maybe, maybe a former colleague of ours, eric Cohen. But I said to Cam give me some dates. Guy's like yeah, no problem, I'll get back to you. Never gets back to me. 

45:27
I'm hosting with him during football season last year on the Mayo Media Network, guy calls me out for not inviting him out to golf. I'm like buddy, receipts are right here. He's also ripping jeff. He's like oh yeah, jeff, beautiful course, never sends me an invite. Everybody sent this guy an invite. He just never gets back to them. So, um, but that was a beautiful course. But true story, I felt so much pressure playing in front of this guy, in front of je, like I suck. 

45:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
I'm the worst. It doesn't. I'm a hacker. I don't even like keeping score. It's like getting on the scale, like if I'm hitting my irons, nice. It's like putting your pants on and they're looser. Like I don't need to make two putts to know that I'm losing weight. I know that I'm golfing better if I'm putting my pants on and the button's not doing up. I know I'm getting fatter. If I'm topping balls. I know I'm playing like shit. 

46:24
I don't need a number because I couldn't get chip, because I couldn't chip to get up and down. I need a score like I I'm not dissing scoring, I like scoring, playing with my friends. I'm just saying like I know by how I'm hitting it, the now scoring in golf, like at our level, when I'm not, I'm not practicing chipping ever. So how can I ever actually score at golf? Like, if I have an hour and a half, I'm gonna try to get out on the course and play as many holes I can, not going to a green or a bunker for for two hours. That's just like I don't have that kind of personality. So I kind of get that I'm gonna. 

46:59
I'm not saying I've plateaued because I like to get older and have more free time and and and practice more. But uh, yeah, and I will say my biggest regret, one of my biggest regrets in life is not like golfing at nine years old, I wish I had 20 more years of chips in these wrists. Yeah, like you imagine having 25 more years of chipping in your wrists. How much better at golf you'd be. Of course it's also life skill. You got children. People get them out there like oh, I wish I regret, not like taking advantage of my dad trying to get me on the golf course. 

47:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Epic miscalculation, I tell you yeah, I want my kid to be an unreal golfer. And then people like, oh, how do you still get a golf? Is like, my dad put me in early. Like, oh, is your dad golf? Nah, he's trash. That's gonna be the story. 

47:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Nah, he's junk money yeah, people will be chasing the golf, the golf dream too now it's true. 

47:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, yeah, I mean, while we bring it up, just what was your perspective on that? We talked about this last week. Obviously, you can look at this from a number of perspectives, but I'd like to focus mainly on the players. Do you view any of the players who've joined the Live Tour any differently than you did beforehand? 

48:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Yes and no. I think everyone, they all have the right to do whatever they want to do. It makes total sense. It's more money for less dates. It's guys that for the most part, like you know, just want to, don't want to like maybe golf when they're 60 and do that whole PGA into champions tour and just retire. So no, I don't, I don't be smirched them. I do think it's weird, um, you know, like like phil, just like in the nutshell guys, like when you look like what he is worth, like in the way jack and arnie are just so prominent in their older age, like it's a really weird thing that he might've potentially given up but he got, he got paid to do it. 

49:05
I will just say selfishly, I don't like change. I don't like when my favorite website changes. So who's? You know you invest all this time in life and I'm not in time, but the betting aspect of the PGA tour. We've invested so much time and energy into the PGA tour and I'm not in time, but the betting aspect of the PGA tour. We've invested so much time and energy into the PGA tour that I'm just I care. 

49:24
Um, I'm not saying they're right or wrong, I just care. I don't care to watch live, but I'm so fascinated by it. But no, I don't hold it against the, the players, but I do think that they have to live in the bed that they're going to make. And you've ever seen a guy get 200 million and like shouldn't they be having a press conference at the four seasons? Like holding up a big check in a Gimelix jersey or a high flyers jersey with a smile, like you're a Scott Boris client, like there's just this whole weird vibe around all of it you know, yeah Well, people are trying to attack other people, for I guess call it achieve a certain level of success or whatnot. 

50:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
but or you could. You could do it outside the four seasons total landscaping as well. 

50:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
What is that of the actual I just, you know it, just at the moment it's an exhibition and the moment they get more players, that will change, but in the current format, and I want to go as far to say I think it's been a success and I don't think it's been celebrated enough of the success that it is. When you do consider friends at riviera, at the masters, this thing was declared dead before it started. Like dead in the water was major publications. Like dead before it started was what major publications headlines were, as it pertained to this, and that was april. So if you take those headlines and then you you attach to what happened a week ago, well, that has to be a success. And portland in a couple weeks is gonna probably be a bigger success and and it's not going anywhere, um, and I'm just incredibly fascinated by it. I don't even know if I answered your question, robin. No, listen to this though. 

51:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There's different types of people right who want to do different things with their life, and it's okay to be like I don't want to be the best golfer in the world and play with the best competition, I'll chase the money. Like you have like rom and rory who were like look at the quality on that tour, it's garbage. I want to be the best. I want to be the best in the world and like leave my mark as the best golfer of all time. Like I don't care about the money, I'm good on money, right. 

51:27
And then you have dj. Someone's like hey, buddy, like what are you gonna do in the uh over half the year where you you're not gonna golf now because there's barely any tournaments? And he's like okay, listen. Like I don't know if you could have figured this out. But like they're paying me so much more money and now I don't have to golf. And like I never even really liked this that much, so like this is a home run, it really is like um, it's a, it's a best of both worlds for certain people like dj obviously doesn't love golf as much as a guy like john rum, who's younger and wants to be the best in the world. Dj's like 200, whatever he's getting, he's like okay, and I don't have to golf that much. Perfect, see ya, sayonara. 

52:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
You almost wish this was in. Like the NFL, because you get this example of I'm going to draft this D-tackle from Alabama. Is this kid happy to just make the NFL and get this contract and this money? Or does this kid want to be truly like that's where it just want? You know, making it is the win you gotta go to live. All the guys that like want to play against the best and try to achieve something. You gotta stay here. 

52:30
I I don't know, um, I guess what the craziest part about it is at the moment the power it feels like augusta national has, and they're probably relishing in this power. But to consider that augusta national, like might actually hold the fate of the pga tour in its hands, because they're probably relishing in this power. But to consider that Augusta National might actually hold the fate of the PGA Tour in its hands because they're the ones that can help them in their stance for legacies important and they can drain these guys out and then make efforts. If you ban Augusta from those guys, then you make efforts to do their best to keep the young stars. What I do believe is likely, potentially is that all past champions will be honored. I don't think that's a fight augusta wants, but they could make it incredibly difficult for anyone else to ever get into their tournament. Um, yeah, that's maybe what I see happening, but again, I don't know. I'm just so fascinated on what live means. I watched eight seconds of it, not to even insult it. I just do not care about what's happening on the course and from a betting perspective I've already joked I bet, I bet the live event like it's a Thursday night football and here's some first touchdown bets and I'm going to try to hit two tight ends at like 12 to 14 so don't let that secret out of the bag, my mindset is donald parham, like that's sort of where my mindset is on betting in units with 

53:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
live. Yeah, we, uh, we. We like to go for the tight ends who are are gonna see the field in the red zone. I mean it's there's still a little bit of value there. 

54:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But um, yeah, understood, I think it's just like I said this last week. But it's like ufc and bellator, like ufc and pfl. Like you're not as soon as you leave the ufc, you just acknowledge, you sign it away, that you're not going to be ever, like considered the greatest of all time, best in the world. You know the guy. But also like some people don't care about that and they're happy to just make a little more money and provide for their family and then just call it a day, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. 

54:26
Uh, in terms of that, I think we should probably be like celebrating that, like you know whatever it is, but in some capacity, like there is now and and I know a lot of people don't agree with like you know, potentially where the money's coming from, and stuff like that. But I do think it's overwhelmingly positive that there is a market for more golf, which creates more opportunity for younger players to get into it, grow the sport, make it whatever it is, like as soon as more money comes into it. That means more money, more eyeballs, more interest, stuff like that. Now, granted, we have to tread water on like okay, well, where's the money coming from, where's all the stuff doing and I understand that completely, um, but for the most part, like growing the sport is is usually a good thing, and providing more competition, it's almost always a good thing and I've been pretty vocal about it this week through the us open that, um, the only people I think are wrong, their opinions are wrong about live are people who are saying let's not talk about it. 

55:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
Why are you talking about it? Why are you bothering me about it? Like brooks kepka yeah, you can go, and that's cool. You can like you're allowed to go or not hate the guys that are going. That is totally cool and you're allowed to hate them and you're allowed to hold 9-11 against them too. If that's the angle you want to take, like, I allow you to take it. 

55:41
But this, this notion that like, why are you trying to overshadow the US Open with this? You're putting a dark cloud on it. That's hogwash to me. This is the biggest golf story in a lifetime and every player who's been attached to it has to say something. And Scotty Scheffler's not being asked about it this week. Why are they giving him a free pass? No, he's answered his question so articulately articulately about it that there's nothing left to say. Do you think john rom's gonna be asked about it again, like he was yesterday? No, because he made a great answer and there's nothing left to say. Brooks kept going to say why you like after three questions. Why are you talking to me about this? I haven't spoken to my brother Chase, in a week. Like that bothered me the most. 

56:27
Brooks did a worse job than Phil. Phil was the first presser out there. He took questions. He stood out there as bad as it looked. It's Phil Mickelson. You sometimes like him more when he comes off as this flawed figure Like he endears himself in the same way every time tiger had a scandal. It almost made him more likable like. I'm not even joking. When it comes to phil brooks kevken, he's come off as the most unlikable player in the lead-up to the us open he's definitely the most unlikable player for me because the amount of money he's cost me over the years where I was I'm like that guy, like there's no way that there's this guy that can just keep elevating himself during majors Like this doesn't make any sense to me. 

57:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is all random luck. I've stuck to that my guns for years and then, of course, we know how that turns out most of the time In terms of some actionable info. Jeff, do the chargers run any three tight end sets? 

57:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
because if they do, then we can probably get trey mckitty at like 80 to 1 first touchdown scores at some books early on in the year, before the books start to adjust okay, I like where you're thinking in there behind, uh, everett and and parham, you could be on to something rub, uh, because they do like him, a third round pick from last year. Uh, yeah, I'm actually. 

57:53
I, I like where your head is at on that donnie parham jr is always a lock for parham is targeted quite a bit in the red zone and I don't want to like lament this right now, but the entire the charger season, like everything changed when he when, with that, that first possession in that thursday versus kc for whatever reason, like that's where the whole season like everything kind of went off the rails at that exact moment. Not to mention, like a lot of people, I had a first touchdown bet on that, on that play as well. Yeah, I don't know, but, rob, I'll tell you, I've hammered the chargers over 10 minus one, 18 wins. I know the exact like when data shows that they might not even be favored in 11 games, but I don't care, I am projecting greatness. 

58:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll tell you this it's going on a half dozen years. Now we're going into the year. I'm like I love the Chargers. I'll bet some sort of Chargers futures. They always, always disappoint. I am not going to bet Chargers futures this year and they will win the Super Bowl. It is very, very average, very average. I love, I love that. 

59:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
I love the chargers, I love okay, but rob and I could probably find the messages. They're the exact same message. They're like I love the chargers. If their offensive line holds up, they could be amazing and they have finally. Like the philip rivers era is over, because that's where you'd always send me this message. You'd be like is Okun like still good? Like what's going on there? All that crap? There probably hasn't been a team that's invested more in the offensive line in the last year in the National Football League between Lindsey Slater Filer another first-round pick this year. So they're like like doing it. They're doing what you've asked, just like eight years too late. They never did that for philip. They clearly know that if you protect herbert, he'll make everyone around him an absolute god I agree with you. 

59:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I uh, I hold them in high regard for this year and I wish uh the chargers the best of luck. Geoff will wrap up on this. It's our closing question. We ask to every guest on this podcast If you could go back five years and talk to a previous version of yourself, what piece of advice would you give to your old self? 

01:00:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
I've actually been thinking about this a lot. I probably I've actually been thinking about this a lot. Um, because I think, like Dave Portnoy is essentially like a Howard Stern of our era and I don't care about like the Stooley bro stuff, just like what he created. And this is going to be micro. But if I allowed a live camera on myself during that week 17 Charger Raider game, rob, I would probably be a full-time barstool sports employee right now. I mean it. I mean it because I rewatched like after my surgery was the first time I rewatched it because I was drunk as hell, I'm sure, when it happened live and it ended sad, so I didn't want to relive it and one night, not being able to sleep, I watched the last 10 minutes of the game, didn't watch the overtime. If it had a camera on me during that, like herbert comeback and that overtime, no timeout sequence yeah, I probably would have been one of those guys like on the couches beside portnoy for live streams. Now I mean that I would have. 

01:01:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
did you not join me? Just pure natural? Did you not join me? Just pure natural? Did you not join me for a Twitter? Spaces in like the first quarter of that game, or did I? Did I give? 

01:01:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
no, I think I you asked me. I think I turned it down. 

01:01:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm like I don't think I can do that, rob too much. 

01:01:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Guest)
And then I nighter for rams cardinals, which was the most boring game ever. Because, yeah, I didn't you off. You asked. I said, rob, I just I'm not committing, I'm not committing, I'm not committing. Oh man, uh, I don't know that. That's my biggest regret, but like in sure my. I don't know why, but that would have been bad. I also could have been canceled. So that could have gone both ways. Yep, it would be working at barstool man, fully canceled. 

01:02:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean crazy that I said it's very possible in this day and age that you would have been canceled. Uh, it's jeff feinberg. You can follow him on twitter at g feinberg 17. You can catch his stuff on the mayo media network where he was the runner-up marginally, as the most insane person this year marginally runner-up. Check out his stuff as well. Odds checker us, jeff. Thanks for joining us this week. Go chargers, good luck with your us open bets thanks jeff, all the best boys anytime.