00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On today's episode of Circles Off. We are joined by one third of the Always Betting podcast Great podcast, you should check it out. Pisky joins us here and we're going to get through a lot of topics, including all of his time as a professional sports better, how he got to the level where he did, how his edge eroded. Tons of great stuff coming up in this interview. Be sure to tune in for the entire thing. And again, if you like the content, smash that like button, hit that subscribe button. Circles off, episode 83 starting now. Welcome to circles off here on the hammer betting network, episode number 83, joined by johnny fromstamp, number 83. There's a lot of them and I know that Joey Kanish specifically requested that we spend more time naming all the players who wore 83, as he finds it to be the most fascinating segment that we do here on Circles Off. I think he said minimum 20 minutes right. 

01:01
I think he said he wants at least 20 minutes. So what I will do is I will now go through every single professional sport, and I'm even going to go through the minor leagues as well, as I think it's important to pay homage. Yeah they. 

01:15 - Zack Phillips (Other)
They help build what it is right like. They build it to the point that it's at. And you hear all these crazy stories about guys, why they have certain numbers and change to certain numbers. You know, maybe a guy went through the minors he wore 83 and then couldn't wear it in the pros, like maybe there's a specific story to why they wore that 83. 

01:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We'll get into that as well. I think it's important to not only the players that wore the numbers, but why they chose it. Uh, in fact, I think we might do an entire episode at some point in the future just about why players chose their numbers which is what episode number 100 is yeah, it's gonna. 

01:49
It will be riveting content for sure, uh. But number 83? Obviously wes welker comes to mind, vincent jackson, may he rest in peace. Uh v jacks was part of my fantasy squads for years. Heath miller my buddy's a steelers fan. I'll never forget heath miller. Lee evans, who I have a bone to bick with, lee evans, because in 2012 he dropped the ball in the conference championship game. Ravens and patriots in the end zone. Patriots go on to the super bowl. God would have enjoyed anyone but the patriots. A couple nhlers, alice hemski and, uh, current nhler, jay beagle, who's been on the block for a long time, arizona coyote right now but uh, hemski, you gotta explain what happened with hemski, why that's the alice hemski, that was. 

02:38
You're talking about the empty net goal. Oh yeah, ah, we got to get the clip in the YouTube comments, or not in the description below. Yeah, one of the most infamous or just famous plays, I guess, in the history of the NHL was a missed empty netter where a player tried to walk. Who tried to walk it into the net. 

03:00 - Zack Phillips (Other)
It was on Dallas. Let's see if I can find it. 

03:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Someone tried to walk it into the net and boom puck went back the other way. We'll get that below, but, in all seriousness, we're not going to spend the entire episode on this. This has been enough. I'm already sick of it. 

03:16 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I do got to say, though, I did just get probably the best follow on Twitter of my time on Twitter so far, and that is the real. 

03:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Deal, oh, the Real Deal, rob Pizzola Sr. About 10 minutes ago. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, I mean, that's a highlight of your life. Yeah. 

03:33
Yes, rob Pizzola Sr is on Twitter. Patrick Stefan. Patrick Stefan. Yes, missed the empty netter. Missed the empty netter. We have a very special guest on this week's episode of Circles Off and, as always, circles Off is presented by Pinnacle Sportsbook. Pinnacle is the sharpest sportsbook in the world and is now available in Ontario. Find out what professional bettors have known for decades Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19 plus in Ontario in order to play. Please play responsibly. Not available in the United States. We now welcome in our guest for this week on Circles Off. He is a part of the Always Betting podcast, which you can find on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can check out his website BanfieldGroupcom. You can also follow him on social media at Banfield Group, on TikTok, instagram and on Twitter. We are now joined by Pisky of the Banfield Group. Pisky, how's it going? 

04:35 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
How's it going, boys? Thanks for having me. 

04:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, no problem at all. We've wanted to have you on for a while and I follow like honestly, I think seven people on TikTok. Banfield Group is one of them. I find some of the videos hysterical. I was watching a few this morning and was having a good laugh. But for people out there who haven't followed, you don't know much about you. Let's get a personal background on who you are and how you got involved in the betting space. 

05:01 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Okay, sweet. Well, I'll tell my personal story first and then I'll tell you guys how Banfield Group got started. So I got into the betting space in 2003. I was growing up young punk in my hometown just outside Montreal, and the full dog and I the full dog is my partner we were looking for summer jobs and one of our buddies put us onto this place on the native reserve next to where we grew up and said I don't know, there's some sort of a new sports place that has opened up and they're looking for clerks to answer phones. We're like, all right, you know we're into sports, so yeah, let's check it out. So we ended up going to check it out. And wasn't it an offshore sports book at US? And we ended up applying there and getting the job and then immediately falling in love with the industry Because, again, we were big sports guys and just, you know how the money was involved and you know taking people's bets over the phone. It was like a super, super cool gig. And then about I think I worked there for three years and it kind of felt like a dead end job. I felt like it wasn't progressing the way I wanted to. And again, it's an offshore sports book. So it wasn't like the prim and proper of organizations, like there was a lot of roughness to it. So I decided to move on. I decided to go back to school. I moved on to Belleville, ontario. I went to Loyalist College for a two year kind of sports management program the full dog. He stayed with BetUS and BetUS ended up moving back down to Costa Rica. So they moved from Costa Rica to the Native Reserve, kahnawake, just outside Montreal, and then ended up moving back to Costa Rica. So that's how he ended up Costa Rica. And he's still there to this very day. 

06:55
So I went on to Belleville two years and at the end of my stint at Loyalist, upon graduation, my goal was to work for a hockey team. I knew I loved numbers and I knew I loved sports. So I literally applied to every hockey team on the planet I'm talking, obviously, nhl, ahl, canadian Hockey League. I went as far as the Swedish Elite. I even applied to the KHL because, again, I was young and full of piss and vinegar and ready to go wherever the wind would take me. I. I wanted to do this and I got a ton of failure right. I. I got rejected everywhere. I basically applied. 

07:28
Um, I'll give a shout out to the coach in gatineau at the time was benoit grew, I don't know if you guys know he. He worked with team canada a little bit. I think he coached the world juniors and I remember him reaching out and saying uh, alex, that's my real name, uh, alex, um, uh, alex, that's my real name. Uh, alex, um, you're doing the right thing. The hockey industry is the toughest industry to get into, but once you're in, you're in for life. So that gave me encouragement and I continued applying. And then I I got a, maybe from the san antonio rampage down in the ahl. They were the affiliate of the ph Coyotes at the time and so that encouraged me. I was back and forth with their head coach I forget his name, but very nice gentleman who's from Orangeville, ontario. 

08:15
And at the same time, you know, I was doing things on the side where I was applying to different things, and that's where the job with the Ontario Lottery Corporation popped up. It was a sports betting analyst job and I remember reading through the job description and saying you know what, I've done this before, this is BetUS, all over again, right. So I applied there and ended up getting called to Toronto for an interview and I remember that interview. I hit it out of the park. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, but the reason why I hit it out of the park was because sports, like legit sports betting experience at that time this is 2008 was unheard of right, and I worked for a legitimate sports book. So I knew how odds moved and lines, you know different types of wagers and stuff like that. 

08:58
So the people interviewing me shout out to the godfather he's one of the guys on our podcast. He, uh, he was blown away. And, um, a couple weeks later they offered me the job. Uh, but I wasn't satisfied. I said no, my goal is to work in hockey. So I reached back out to the coach at the san antonio rampage and I said listen, I got offered this job at the ontario lottery corporation, but I am willing to give that up and I'm even willing to come down to San Antonio and work voluntarily just to prove myself. So he responded and said you know what, alex, I've been trying to get a you know a thumbs up from management up in Phoenix. But you know I'm sure you're well aware of the financial situation here I can't give you a yes or no. So my advice to you would be you know, take the lottery corporation job and you know hockey is not going anywhere. So stay in touch and you never know, you know down the road at some point. So obviously I had to make that move and I ended up taking the job at the lottery corporation and working there for 13 years, to the day I started working September 1st 2008, and I left September 1st 2021. 

10:12
So during that, I'll go into my Banfield story now, the Banfield group, how it all started out. So the full dog and I, when we were working at Sportsbooks for anyone out there that has worked at a Sportsbook before, you know that there's a lot of downtime, especially in the dog days of summer there's a ton of time that we were always looking to start a side hustle and we tried many different things. They failed miserably. And then one day again this is later on, when I'm at the Lottery Corp I remember discovering this website called Betfair and what I would do is basically play the odds. I was staring at the Don Best screen all day long at the Lottery Corporation, so I would basically take a look and create arbitrage opportunities for myself where I would guarantee myself one dollar, one single canadian dollar, on uh nba games it's like 20 cents us basically, yeah, yeah, it was. 

11:15
But you know what, the way I looked at it, I said, christ, if I can do this and make an extra 20 bucks a week, that pays my tim hortons coffees for the week. And uh, yeah, like, hey, why not? Right, I'm not doing anything else. Might as well because at the lottery corporation I had a very like uh, lenient schedule where we we did four days off, four days on we worked 12 hour shifts, so four days consecutively off completely. 

11:39
So you know what am I going to do and, anyways, that's what I decided to do. So I remember calling my buddy, the full dog, down in Costa Rica and I said, dude, I'm doing this new thing at Betfair or whatever. And I talked to him. I was guaranteeing myself a bucket game and he laughed at me. He laughed hysterically. He's like what are you doing, dude? You're wasting your time. And I said, no, I love it, it's free money, right? Well, doesn't? He call me a couple weeks later and he's like there's a local guy down here. Here's a website, here's the login, and he's shading some of his games. So maybe you can do some of your arbitrage stuff with him. 

12:16
And I was able to, right, there was money line opportunities in baseball. He was using, I think, 10 cent lines at the time and, uh, I would match with Pinnacle and basically, yeah, just middle myself all day long, right. And then I progressed into, uh, point spreads and uh, I started getting myself, you know, two, three-point Middles between this guy down in Costa Rica and again, pinnacle Sports and the thing with the Banfield group. Everything that we start out of the gate is completely horseshit, like it fails so bad. And I always say that it is the gods above that are testing us right, testing our balls. So this was no different. This started out miserably. I couldn't hit a middle of my life's dependent on. There was bad beats across the board and obviously your confidence starts to waver and you're like you know, should I be doing that? Is there anything here? And then there was that late night game. I'll never forget it. It was a USC college football game. 

13:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's wearing a shirt Like we didn't even know this beforehand Unbelievable. 

13:21 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
That's crazy, yeah, yes, it was a usc game. 

13:26
They blew it late, right for the middle, kind of yes. So they scored with basically no time left in the game and I think I had eight and a half to ten and a half right, so that number 10 is pretty significant. So they they scored to go up 10 and I'm like, fuck, I'm gonna lose by another. They're going to kick the extra point and win by 11. Well, they missed the extra point, so it landed 10 and finally, finally, it finally happened. We hit a middle and then it was pure carnage after, I think the next week we hit like four or five and to the point where we beat the bookie down in Costa Rica, down into oblivion, and Banfield group was born, right down into oblivion and Banfield group was born All right. 

14:09
There was another group that we were very close contact with, shadow tour, our boy Scotty, down in Costa Rica. His group was doing live betting and he said there's a lot of opportunity there, you guys should take a look. And man, oh man, those were the glory days, because I remember looking at a place like 888 Sport. They were terrible and I could literally get 10-point middles between 888 and Pinnacle back in the day and this was weird shit. I don't think it was the NBA, knowing the markets. It was probably like Korean basketball or something, but I didn't care. Money is money, middle is the middle, right, so that's it. That's how Banfield Group started and, uh, from that day forward, this was always a thing like we middled an arbitrage probably for the next four years, and it was extremely profitable and it kind of the operation has kind of evolved since then and here we are today, 2023. I'm in'm in Las Vegas, nevada. I've been here since the middle of August or sorry, probably the beginning of September and, yeah, still going after it my consulting days as well. 

15:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think that's where every sports offshore sports book was at some point that was operating in Canada. But prior to that, like, did you have any extensive gambling knowledge before that? Were you a better before joining that, or was it just one of those things where, like hey, I'm young, this seems like a very interesting job, I'm passionate about sports? Like, basically, where did that foundation for sports betting start for you? 

15:46 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Well, it started at a super young age for me, growing up in Quebec, there was this thing called misojour that is the equivalent of pro line in Ontario and my dad and one of his good buddies used to play misojour hockey every Saturday night. I remember they used to put their pending tickets on the TV for good luck and they'd cheer in the haves and whoever else they had in their parlays and I was allowed to play it. It's crazy, because back then there was no rules. I'd go to the local convenience store as a nine-year-old and they'd sell me parlay tickets, which was bananas in today's day and age. But I remember my dad would let me play one dollar, and I guess this is the magical number, the one dollar thing. Uh, he would let me play one dollar, and I guess this is the magical number, the one dollar thing. Uh, he would let me play one dollar parlays. And so I would join them on saturday nights to watch the hockey games and bet my parlays, and I remember there was this moment uh, I put this out on tick tock on mother's day because I'll never forget this. My mom still laughs about it today. But basically, what I would do and I guess this is getting into the industry at a very young age and looking for edges. 

16:47
But the Montreal Gazette had basically their columnists that would put out their Sunday picks for NFL football on a weekly basis. I think it came out maybe every Thursday or something like that. And if they had a consensus pick across the board, I would take that and put it into my misogyn parlay. And then I saw I remember seeing a, an ad for I don't know who. That was some tout out in vegas, and it said call now for your free, guaranteed wintering pick. So here I am, literally nine years old. I called the toll-free number and immediately they asked for a credit card number. Right, but I'm a little kid. I'm like, okay, well, that's not going to work. So I hung up. Well, they must have been ahead of the times because they had caller display. So they called back my house. 

17:36
My mom picked up and they're saying like this is so-and-so from Las Vegas Consultants, you called us for our free pick of the day. And she's like, no, she goes like my husband watches sports and my kid loves sports. But I don't think anyone called you. They're like well, ma'am, someone called. We have your number on file. She goes well, it can't be my son, he's literally nine years old. And she said they say well, man, this is a service for 21 and older. And she's like, well, I don't know what to tell you, but no one's buying anything here. 

18:07
So she confronted me about it Did you call someone for, like, some sports betting picks or something? I'm like, yeah, but listen, they asked for a credit card and I hung up immediately. So, there's no charge. She just kind of rolled her eyes, didn't really understand it, and that was that. So that eyes didn't really understand it. And, uh, that was that. 

18:32
So that's how I thought I could, uh, you know, build my parlays and take the consensus picks and the free one from vegas, but obviously that's no strategy for anyone and, uh, so that's kind of where it all started. And then, uh, yeah, when this place moved to ghanawagi, it was like it was. It was a dream job, essentially, and I remember getting involved and it was funny because the first test to get in the door at BetUS was they handed you four sheets of paper and it had all the cities of all the four major sports and you had to fill out the monikers. And I did them all and I actually got one wrong. I couldn't think of one the Houston Texans. I'll never forget that. I couldn't think of one but Houston Texas. I'll never forget that. I don't know why, just completely slipped my mind. But it was pretty interesting that that was your first quiz at a new job, because when you think jobs, you think hard labor and this was like wow, sports betting. 

19:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For sure it's funny. I mean, you're only nine years old so I not going to hold you to that but I think a lot of uh betters now that are successful everyone kind of has. I don't want to say everyone to each their own, but a lot of people have like that story from their youth where they're like I can't believe how much of an idiot I was to like have called the Vegas hotline for me. I used to have AOL dial up internet, like we all did like in our youth. I had 10 hours a a month which I could spend on the internet. That was the packages. 

19:46
At that time you didn't have unlimited internet access. I probably spent eight of those 10 hours every single month on a website that was free plays or freepixcom or something like that, and I'd go through every single tout to get the free play and I thought that these were golden Like, and I used to go bet these myself. And then you very quickly realize after you know a couple months that no, these aren't gold. But that was how I spent my youth, thinking that there was people on the internet just giving away, you know, the goods for free. 

20:16 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
For sure, for sure, we all fell for it. 

20:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Of course. So let's get into the good stuff now. So obviously you know that's how you came up. You mentioned calling up your buddy the full dog and then starting the Banfield group. So when did you guys start actually winning some serious money and then trying to scale that and then, obviously you know, leading into eventually you quitting your job last year which congratulations, thank you, yeah. 

20:39 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
So it really started in 2011 with, again, the middling and arbitrage opportunity. We were so conservative and we still are. We are very conservative. Uh, we're betting, you know. Our bankroll has increased significantly over the years, but we're betting. A micro faction fraction of you know what the pile is and that was the thing you know. We loved that there was no risk involved, right, okay. So when you're middling, obviously you know you're you're taken from Peter to pay Paul if you lose and you're you know subtracting the juice. But arbitrage and middling, you know I recommend that for a lot of beginners because it's risk-free and you learn so much about the industry. So, as the years progressed and those middling opportunities started to dry up a little bit well, actually, the problem that we were having, again learning experience we started to learn the difference between a sharp sports book and a recreational or shit sports book. Right, we could not, for the life of us, keep a balance at pinnacle and the bet three, six, fives and the william hills and the stan james of the world. We were kicking their ass. And then, obviously, we found out this thing where, if you kick ass too much in sports betting, well, see you later, they kick you out, right. So that was, that was a new thing and that was, you know a thing, an issue that sunk a lot of other groups that knew what we were doing and they were doing it themselves and making good money, but they got too frustrated when sports books would kick them out. They're like this is not fair, this is an injustice, and, yes, that is completely correct. But you know, when you have something as lucrative as we had, we're like, okay, fuck it, find a way to, to you know, beat these guys at their own game. And find a way to, to you know, beat these guys at their own game and find a way to start bearding and like that. So it turned into a giant operation. It's, it's a full-time job and just to give you guys an idea of how we operate. 

22:34
So the full dog, he's the numbers genius. This guy is on another level in terms of sports betting and just his knowledge for the industry itself is off the chart. My role in the operation is more the accounts guy. Right, I'm responsible for moving money around, opening accounts, closing accounts, dealing with sports books when they misgrade a prop or misgrade a game or something like that. 

23:01
More the guy that is, yeah, just basically doing all the administration work and obviously I've taken on this, this task of, you know, being the social media guy which I've fallen in love with. That's been pretty cool, uh. But the full dog is really the guy that is the numbers guy and knows when sports books are cheating, like cheating in terms of like cheating on a line, uh shading. He you know, he recognizes, you know good hedging opportunities, he recognizes when people are asleep late at night, on halftime, shit like that. So he's really that guy that is, he's the dangerous one and I'm the guy that just you know yeah, you make it work, but without him it would be hard to make it work. 

23:45
Oh, absolutely Without him. Uh, I don't, it would be hard to make it work. Oh, absolutely Without him. I don't think there's much there, to be perfectly honest. But yeah, it has become a two-man operation because it's a grind and a half being on his side dealing with all the numbers and everything, and there's not really much time in the day to be doing all the admin shit too and chasing the sportsbooks when they're goofing around or kicking us out or whatever. 

24:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I will say for those people who are listening, pisky's selling himself short a lot right now, because the reality is there are people that can win, but winning at scale is also incredibly difficult and it sounds like without you, pisky, it would be much harder to win at scale. So that is an incredibly difficult and it sounds like without you, pisky, it would be much harder to win at scale. So that is an art in and of itself and maybe you're not the numbers guy that can make it happen, but I think that there's something there that people um, oftentimes they will sell themselves short on, because that is an art in and of itself being able to keep sportsbook accounts open for a long time, get as much money down as you can these are all integral parts of being a functioning group. I want to pick up on just something that you said there which was interesting to me. 

24:52
I guess it's more of a personal question, but you talked about how you guys are ultra conservative as a group relative to others. Maybe I'm just curious why you think that is personally, because you have now a longer track record of success. You've probably your proof of concept is now like a reality where you guys are consistently winning money. Has there ever been discussions about potentially scaling up the bet amounts, betting more of the bankroll? Why do you think that you guys continue to remain conservative in nature? 

25:22 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
I think because we've had some scares along the way. Right, I like to remind everyone that our journey is titled always betting, not always winning. So there are moments where, you know, the full dog and I have looked each other in the face and say like, do we have a problem here? Are we idiots, are we? You know? Is this a gambling problem more than having an edge? 

25:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Right. 

25:44 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
So there's always that factor, because I think, if you're a sports better out there and you're making the assumption that you're just going to win forever on the systems that you currently have in place, you're you're mistaking yourself, because I'll give you guys an example. This is our actually our second stint in Las Vegas. The full dog came down here in 2018. We had some really good live edges that were making us really good returns, so we decided to test our luck. Come down here to Las Vegas and take a shot at all the sportsbooks here, and the NBA made a little change in the rules. Maybe you guys are aware of it, maybe you're not. It was the offensive shot clock. Um, maybe you guys are aware of it, maybe you're not. It was the offensive shot clock. So, basically, when when you get an offensive rebound, you don't get a full 24, you only get 14 seconds. I think it is now. So we knew that there was going to be some change in totals. Uh, we did not expect totals to rise by I think it was 20 points, and it put us in a very dangerous situation where, you know, by the end of the year, I think our models and our strategies were able to catch up. But Christ out of the gate man, it was really tough, like the full dogs out here alone in Vegas were not winning. You could just imagine the anxiety and just the craziness involved in all that, and you know I'm doing my best to pop in as much as I could to help support and, you know, increase the morale, but it was really difficult. So you know again. 

27:19
Another thing I like to remind everyone is that this game is not easy, right. Sure, we do it for a living. Sure, you know we've been very successful at it, but you know we're not stupid enough to go all in on sports betting. We do a lot of other things. I like to remind everyone that as well is that you know we're into different things, whether it be cryptocurrency or stocks or precious metal. You know we're betting on other things, not just sports. So I think it's that that really keeps us conservative, and it's always. You always have to progress, right? You always have to be updating your models and you know we have to get better at. You know building databases, like the way we went. I know we'll get into it with the lottery corporation and what we did with them. 

28:06
You know our, our data was rock solid for that, so we had so much confidence in it, whereas this other stuff, uh, it's a little more difficult, right, there's a lot more variables to take into consideration. So I think the reason why we're so conservative is that we're not quite as confident in it as we were something like the Lottery Corporation. Fair enough Project. 

28:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, let's get into it. I think there's a lot of people that are interested in how, like, a lottery syndicate works in general. But I want to backtrack a little bit. So you work for the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation. At that time it might have just been OLG instead of OLGC or reversed whatever. What was your specific role within the olg? Um, were you an odds maker? Were you doing something else on the side? I just want to get the background on specifically what you were doing for them and if, if that job in specific, like without having that specific job within the olg, would you have been able to translate, you know, into the success that you had post OLG? Or was that, like a requirement for you to build up all this? You know, this foundation of knowledge? Um, so the I lost track there. 

29:21 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Specific role within the OLg okay, my specific role with the olg. I was a sports betting analyst and, yeah, I was required, or my my role was to make the odds with the olg ton of handcuffs. Like we were operating with a system that was built in the early 90s that had static lines, which means, you, they couldn't move. So whatever we put out at 5 30 am on the morning of of the games, we were stuck with that number. Yeah, right, um, in terms of like volume so listen to this, there was 90 we were only allowed putting out 99 events per list. So every, I think, two or three days they would put out a new list, but that list could only consist of 99 games. So if there was 500 games through college you know high season, right, there's a ton of games every, we can only choose 99. That's all the system. The system did not like three digit numbers. So, again, this was something that was built as a game in the early 90s and as sports betting has evolved and, uh, just, the industry has evolved, that's when these guys got into trouble with the system that they had there again, so many handcuffs. And, to answer the question, like, uh, we had a lot, of, a lot of success against the Lottery Corporation after I had left. Could I have done that without the knowledge of working there? I don't think so, because I saw. The way the story goes is that I saw problems with the way they offered their game because of my background in the sports book industry, and I went to them. I think I went to them in like 2015. I said listen, what you're offering here and it wasn't just the static odds and the parlay system and stuff. I went to them specifically about props and I said you can't offer this, this is beatable. And they kind of chuckled at me, they laughed and, you know, gave me the old, you know, young grasshopper, this is your two-page manual. Don't do anything less, don't do anything more. Right, stay in your lane. Stay in your lane, essentially. 

31:35
So at that point I'm like okay, you know, banfield group had started and we had a lot of success with the middling and arbitrage that we were doing. So I went to the full dog and I said dude, I think there's something here, take a look at it. And that's like giving a bone to a dog, like this guy. When I went to him with this or when I go to him with anything, he dives deeper than I'd say anyone else could dive. And he started. He started tracking. He started going through and tracking results and seeing what kind of odds and what would make sense, what would not make sense, testing different things. He was doing it all on his own. 

32:17
I didn't know much about it. I still worked there. You know, it's just a job for me. I was concentrating on banfield group and the reason why I left the corporation was because the full dog came to toronto and I'll never forget this day. He came to me with a big stack of papers and he said dude, it's time to leave. And I'm like leave, leave what? Like, what are you talking about? It's time to leave the lottery corporation. I'm like why would I do that? And he handed me this evidence, if you will, and I remember looking through it and going holy fuck he's like yeah it's, it's go time. 

32:58
So I obviously, you know, didn't in the moment say okay, I'm done with this. I gave it some thought, I looked over the documents again more and more and I said, okay, you know, this is it. And I got lucky because the Lottery Corporation was going through kind of a downsizing period. Right, it was out of the pandemic. This is my assumption. This is not fact. I assume they just lost a ton of revenue because all the casinos were closed, sports were stopped for a good while, people weren't getting out of their house buying their lottery tickets as much. So they had this thing called the volunteer exit program. So obviously, the data from the full dog combined with this volunteer exit program. My Christ, I have a parachute to get out of this thing. They're essentially going to pay me to leave and yeah, let's, let's go after them. 

33:49
And we did, and we caused a really significant amount of damage. The operation itself was was wild. We had all over the greater toronto area going out every game day. We, we bet. So it was a system, right, we, there was no thinking involved here. Whatever game was put out, but whether it be thursday night football, monday night football or anything, on sunday, we went out with the exact same system on leaks on every single game that they put out, and it was magical man to see everyone. 

34:24
You know, all my friends in Toronto loved it because it was a side hustle for all of them. 

34:28
We had a great payment system that they would go out every Sunday morning and walk around and go store to store to store, and I can't even imagine what clerks at gas stations and convenience stores thought about this, because we had a lot of girls involved too, a lot of attractive girls as well. 

34:46
That's a funny story that I like to tell because, for anyone that is unaware, the lottery corporation, to protect themselves, had a system in place where you can only bet $100 maximum per ticket per store. So our way around this is yeah, there were a lot of attractive girls that were interested in getting involved with a side hustle. So we would send them out and you know, the male store owners would look at them and they'd, you know, smile and ask if they could play two, three, four hundred. And I think we all know the answer to the male lottery operators they would let them get away with with quite a bit. And, yeah, we went out and did what we had to do and, like I said, I tell everyone this is going to be a documentary, a movie some way, someday, because just uh, just the way everything was orchestrated and the way it worked was pretty magical. 

35:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So what would you say? Um again, feel free not to give out the numbers if you don't want to, but like maybe even just an ROI or something like how profitable was this system, so to speak? 

35:56 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Uh, yeah, I don't like to give out the number. There's literally four people on this planet that know exactly what we did to them. Um, there's a number. There's a number said you can go on our tick tock feed and it's one of our pin posts. Uh, this is kind of what made us explode onto the tick tock scene. Uh, I took, basically I kept all our receipts. That's very important because you know, if anyone wants to know where the money comes from, uh, you know, sports betting has a black eye. I've had run-ins with the Royal bank of Canada that uh think that at some point I was either laundering money or working for a terrorist organization, and it's fucking wild what uh they've questioned me on. But yeah, so we've kept all our receipts. And you know, when you play play, when you cash a winning ticket, they give you a receipt, and I basically plastered every single winning receipt that we had, or most of them. 

36:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It was gotta save this we have it in a later question and we'll show the video. 

36:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We'll show the video, and that because this is my favorite tiktok of the bunch, which is yeah, yeah, I think it's. We are the champions playing in the background. Right, it's a queen. 

37:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's such a good we'll tease it, don't worry. 

37:05 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Everyone you'll get to watch this video well, listen, like just just because and I know it's being like you know a lot of people like, oh, you're such a show. That's not the point of the video right here I'm not looking to toot our own horns. What I'm looking to do is stick it to the guys that told me in 2015 and basically told me throughout my career at the olg, that you know you don't know anything. We know what we're doing here. You know, and it's it's. Sticking it to the man is one of the greatest feelings of all time, no different than you know if you get traded in professional sports and you go back into the team that traded you and you put up three touchdowns in a game right, exactly the old revenge angle. 

37:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know the old revenge angle in sports there's no better feeling. 

37:47 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Let me tell you. So yeah, that that tiktok um, I remember putting it together. You know I put a little bit on the ground and stuff like that, sent a picture to the full dog down in costa rica and he's like dude, if you're gonna do it, fucking do it okay so I spent like three days putting this shit all over my condo in downtown Toronto and just to film this 30 second TikTok video and uh, yeah, and that. 

38:10
Uh, that was kind of the the story behind it. I forget where I was going with that, though, so anyways, yeah, great time, it was profitable. 

38:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The question oh okay, yeah, it was like more of an ROI because some people earn, let's say, 1% and that's an amazing earn if you're getting down tons of volume and other people are like, okay, I can't get down that much, but I'm earning 10, 15% Amazing earn as well. So there's different ways to win. Was this more of like a super high ROI kind of edge? This? 

38:37 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
was extraordinarily high, to the point where we told the roi to our buddy, our mutual buddy, plus ev at bet bash here in vegas. We went out for dinner with him and the full dog mentioned what the roi was over a five-year span and he said no, that's, that's impossible. So again, I'm not the numbers guy, I'm not going to sit here and argue it and make a case for it. Um, the only number that we've put out there and again you can see it in that video that we just teased is the number seven. Now a lot of people have said, oh, congratulations, you know. Now a lot of people have said, oh, congratulations, you know. 7,000, 700,000, 7 million, whatever, I'm just leaving it at seven. 

39:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That is the number Seven billion dollars. 

39:53 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Seven billion, seven trillion. It's somewhere in that neighbor. I'm just leaving it there. I think that's a pretty cool mystery to have about all this and, you know, maybe it comes out one day when we potentially write a book or make a documentary or something like that. But there are legit only four people on this planet that knows what the true number is. And, uh, I I just want to keep it like that. 

40:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I, I think it's cool, for sure I like that, I like the mystery understood and and I do like how this is something where you know it's. It is unique in a sense, where it's like, okay, you quit your job, you hit it big and the edge is no longer there or it's drastically reduced, given what I guess we'll talk about now. But it's cool how it's kind of like an opportunity for someone who quit a job at the place and then only had a small amount of time right, because you mentioned quitting in. Was it September 2021 and, um, olg kind of went offline. Was it on April 4th or was it a little bit after that? 

40:52 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Uh, February 1st. 

40:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So that that was another factor. 

40:54 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
We knew, because I worked there. I knew that it was the last year, right. So I said you know it, it's it's kind of now or never and let's, let's press this as hard as we can. And, uh, we did it, I did it. If you had quit a year, prior. 

41:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Would that have been a better, better financial move? 

41:12 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
two years prior five years prior probably, probably. 

41:16
I mean again, like the full dog was doing things on his own on the side, right, so he had little crews. His mom was living in in cornwall and he he made mention, he never wanted to tell me too much because I was working on the inside, right, so I, I couldn't play the product conflict of interest. That was a big no-no at the olg. So I knew he was doing something and it was more or less testing, right, so he was doing it at a smaller scale. And then, when he approached me, he's like I really want to go after this and pedal to the metal, but we need you involved, right, uh, to just to facilitate everything. And I said, okay, you know what I mean. 

41:53
I, the numbers were the numbers. And I said, okay, this is the chance that we're going to take, and you know, the golden parachute was there to to embrace my fall in case we fell directly flat on our face, um, but yeah, that's so. Would we have? Could we have made more? Starting earlier, potentially, potentially, I, I don't know, though it was, uh, again, something that was kind of in the moment and, uh, just took the leap of faith when, when I did, now correct me if I'm wrong. 

42:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I I've played, I played pro line my whole life, growing up as well, and uh, I I noticed a lot of the same, probably things that you guys did in betting, and I I never took advantage of it to the scale that you did. But uh, there was obviously the stale lines was a huge one for a long time. There was actually you could play certain parlays that paid better. So like you would always play like a seven gamers I can't remember the exact numbers, but like I think it was never play a two gamer or five gamer or whatever but was this all parlay betting for you at this time? 

42:56 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
uh, yeah, we only did props you had to parlay right. 

42:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So my question is this this is not disrespect to the banfield group or anything along those lines. I know of other groups that were moving um significant amount of money, uh, in all sorts of lotteries across canada. So whether that was misoge. In quebec pro line, in ontario you had the, the, the western Canada sports, select and whatever in Alberta, bc, all over the place play Montana over in the USA. 

43:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, yeah, no. 

43:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But cross Canada operations, right and um. One of them is a very good friend of mine and I. I used to go out with him every now and then catch up with him every couple months and he'd just be like rob, like this. Last month we lost 30 of the 31 days. Like you know, it's or I I've won one day in the last two months. I was quite. 

43:49
I quite literally watched a friend take a million dollar swing one night by the phillies blowing a 5-1 lead in the bottom of the ninth to the new york mets, which is one of the most uncomfortable things because it killed every seven game parlay, every six game parlay, and that would have been like the win that they needed. So did you get into these like long extended periods where you basically didn't win? Because I make, I imagine there's just way more variance in this type of parlay betting and I'm just curious how you dealt with that. Was there a point where you're like I've made a big mistake here? Like you know, we're just getting killed on a nightly basis? Walk me through what it takes to go through that, because I don't think people appreciate how much different it is when you're just betting straights and you're winning 20 of the 30 days a month versus when you're betting parlays, and you might go the entire month without a winning day. 

44:51 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Absolutely. This feat is not for the faint of heart. Again, I got to give credit where credit is due, and that is to the full dog. This guy doesn't have ice water in his veins. This guy has liquid nitrogen in his veins. Honestly, on a different level level I'm not. 

45:01
I'm the guy that worries about everything right, as you can tell the the grays are coming in at a rapid pace. I'm in the sports betting industry. I'm always panicking, but yes, the variance betting parlays the way we did was extremely high, like some of the bad beats still haunt me to this day. Um, we were underwater for 10 straight weeks last year, out of the gate. So from week one in the nfl to week 11 right, that's almost three months. We were underwater with that project. And then things started to pop like bang, bang, bang. 

45:34
And then there's that magical buffalo game uh, I'm sure you guys are aware of it, buffalo and the patriots where basically every prop in the game went under. That was the grant, yes. The wind game uh, the gods of wind yes, uh, that was. That was the grand salami. That was a beat down of epic proportions. Basically say like, made us safe for the rest of the year regardless of what would have. And. But there were a lot of other like really profitable games as well. 

46:05
But yes, this was something that you had to have a lot of faith in your data, a lot of faith in your numbers, and it wasn't so much. 

46:13
There was no mental going into this, right, this was not something where we were handicapping games or something. 

46:19
This is, there was a flaw in their game, right, they were doing something that no other sports book on the planet would allow you to do, and we took advantage of that. So I think that's how we were able to power our way through. We had all kinds of prior data from years past saying, okay, these streaks are normal. Right, we looked at this thing and said, okay, okay, we're going out pretty heavily here like are we prepared to deal with what could be very painful moments and really disgusting periods of time where, yeah, you're going to look in the mirror, you're just jump on a facetime call and look at each other dead in the eyes and saying, are we doing the right thing here? Are we like idiots? Is this is? Is this the way we go down after everything that we built? So, yes, there were definitely moments of that, but we powered through. We trusted the data and we trusted that the flaw was big enough for us to profit on in the long run. 

47:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So one more question in the evolution of the OLG stuff, when I was younger, I used to do probably the same thing that everyone else did right pinnacle on one screen, pro line on the other. This is off, this is off, this is off. I'm going to the convenience store, I'm going to throw together a hundred dollar parlay and over the long run I think that I'm going to win. And I used to be able to do this maybe half an hour before the games started, and then it got to a point one year where I would go and it was like okay, they feed the ticket through the machine and it spits out ontario liability limit reached and it's like sorry, sir, you can't play this game anymore. And this is happening more and more and more. So obviously people are picking up on this. 

47:56
The, the provincial lottery, is making changes. Did you notice that things got more competitive over time with what you were doing? And, if so, how did did you have to? Like change the model of the operation? Like were you starting to bet way earlier in the mornings? Were you waiting till certain periods of time? Like, was there a kind of a shift in the dynamic from when you first started doing this versus you know when, ultimately, when the edge went away. 

48:30 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Uh, I think we were lucky because we solely play props, right, and we had a system that basically, was very contrary to what square bettors would bet right, because pro line that's. That's the thing. That's why they never made changes at pro line. That's why, when I went to them with issues in the fundamentals of the game, they laughed at me, they scoffed at me, because there are so many recreational bettors playing this thing they're looking at the bottom line and they're just pointing at the revenue yeah there's no problem here, right hey, let's yeah settle down sportsbook boy, like look at this, right, you don't know what you're you're talking about. 

49:01
But and that's why it's such a shame that it went away, because, you know, after I put out that TikTok and we, you know, started to grow our social and online presence, there were some groups that reached out to me. You know Plus EV was one of them, that you know. I got to sit down with these very smart individuals. Proline john is another one. Shout out to him, rob, I think you maybe have had lunch with him before, right like I've had lunch with him, uh, not yorkville. 

49:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He came to me, uh, in the kleinberg village area, so, yes, but I have had lunch with he is gonna go in, not 20 years. 

49:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's on the episode. 

49:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh yeah, he listens he told me listen to every episode and, uh, he's like you gotta do, do you guys got to do more? Man, you got to do like three a week. I'm like you know how hard it is to do one a week like come on you sound like him by just imitating him there. 

49:49 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
no, shout out to him, he's a great guy. And uh, yeah, he's told me he's like hey, you better uh sharpen your skills if you're going on the uh the fazola podcast, because these guys know what they're talking about and they're sharp and I'm like you know I'm going to do the best I can. But, yeah, shout out to Proline John, you know he, I've had many lunches with him. Great guy. Once we get talking, oh my goodness, it goes on for hours and hours, but he gave me a little glimpse of the operation he had going on. 

50:19
And man oh man, like thought what we had was sophisticated and I'm like dude, we should do a like a combined documentary and get everyone talking about this thing. But yes, there were a ton of different groups doing different things and again, I I think we were very fortunate because we were going after props and from majority of the groups that I've spoken with, they would go after props if there were significant line discrepancies. Right, if they had stefan diggs that, uh, you know, the pro line had them at 85 and a half and his number was 92 and a half type of thing you know they'd go after that and just fly me. What we were doing was completely different. So I think that's why we never faced liability limit issues. 

51:02
We were able to get down everything we needed to get down on props. It's very rare that they would take a prop guy off the board simply because the numbers never skew too far from what they set them at. So you're not getting, for example, a minus seven turning into a minus three. Props kind of always stays in the area of what it was set at. So that's why we never ran into troubles like that. 

51:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Rob, you never ran into a liability issue. He was the liability issue. 

51:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He was the liability issue, yeah. 

51:37 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Was that Proline John? No you. Oh yeah. 

51:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, technically, if you didn't run into a liability issue, that means, however much money you made, it could have been more. 

51:47 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, yes. 

51:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
In theory Okay. 

51:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes. 

51:53 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
The difficulty that we got into was just like how many people can you possibly have going out? Right, like I can't imagine what it looked like on their end? You know, seeing all the convenience stores in the downtown core, bang hundred, bang hundred. And then again some of the girls and some of the people that knew some of the store owners got a little bit more down and it yeah, I can't imagine what it looked like and it was. It was really difficult. There's really so much time in a day. Right, we got started on an NFL Sunday. I was up at 5.30 am. Right, the full dog would send me the combinations from Costa Rica because there were slight modifications depending on what the prop cards looked like. So he would send me the combinations and I would have to fill out every single one of those goddamn tickets manually. 

52:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
People don't realize like it's. It's a Scantron card that you have to. Yes, continue yeah. 

52:48 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
We, we looked into having a company sort of make us a program that we could just sort of put into a printer. It didn't work out. So this was manual labor and to the point where, like even my girlfriend shout out to her god bless her soul, because she would sleep until about like 7 30. But then she knew it was like real crunch time. But from 5 30 I'd have to print out. So okay, I'll take you guys through the entire process. Yeah, right, so 5 30 am, my alarm goes off. I already have emails waiting for me from the full dog. 

53:24
He put the combos together. I would go in, I would print them all, because every envelope we would stuff, so every combo that we went on out on, was $300. So on the envelope itself we would write the combo because so, card number, number, events and combination. And the reason we did that? Because when our runners went out and sometimes you know clerks, just force of habit they would basically take the selection slip and rip it up, throw it out. Well then they're like okay, well, I didn't finish my envelope, how the hell do I know which combo it was? So then you would just go and look at the combination on the envelope and fill out your form again. Right, so the printer is on fire. 

54:06
From basically 5 30 to 6 30 non-stop, envelope after envelope, after envelope and then I would take all those envelopes, pile them literally this high on my kitchen table and go through with the prola or the prop selection forms and fill them out one by one, depending on what the envelope said. I would then take the selection slip, put it in the envelope Now it's ready for stuffing and I would do that, honestly. That would take two, two and a half hours. And then I would go to the kitchen counter and there was a money counting machine because this is all cash based and I would take the cash and set it to $300 and it would boom 300, boom in an envelope. That envelope's done. Boom boom, boom 300 in next envelope, next envelope, next envelope. So that would take place for a good hour and then it was time to separate it. 

54:54
We had different runners again all over the GTA. So I would say, okay, this person's good for, let's say, 10,000 for the day. I take out 10,000 worth of envelopes. Make sure I documented everything. Okay, boom. And then. But another thing that we had to be careful was time right, because there's only a certain amount of time before the one o'clock's go off, there's only a certain amount of time before the four o'clock's go off, et cetera, off, etc. Etc. So I'd have to strategically give them a safe amount of one o'clock, four o'clock and the night game, right, so they could get it all done. 

55:29
And then, once that was all separated, I had the ground crew. They would come to the condo in toronto, they'd get all their envelopes, they'd go out on the ground and then I'd go, I'd drive through etobicoke, race down the Gardner Expressway, drive to Etobicoke where I'd meet the guys that would do the biggest betting for us, and I would meet them, give them their stack of envelopes and then I would be off to do my own thing, right, I would basically Scarborough. Scarborough was great for me. Uh, there was some malls there that I could basically just pinball. So you just basically run around the mall. There was like eight different kiosks and I'd go around, do my eight, you know, go for a coffee, do the eight again, go for lunch, do the eight again, and yeah, it was just absolutely wild. 

56:15
And then at the end of the day, yeah, you know, you throw on the games and you cheer in the combos and hope for the best. And then the process of going to picking up all these envelopes right, because some of them would win, and when they would connect, they would fucking connect. So there's a lot of like hot tickets out there, so I'd have to go collect those, and then you have the challenge of cashing everything, and then you have the challenge of cashing everything Exactly what I was gonna get at, because you have the $1,000 limit before you have to show up in person to cash it. 

56:47
Exactly so. All our tickets were strategically set so that they wouldn't pay over $1,000. Perfect Right, because I don't wanna go to the price center. They probably know who I am and I'm not dealing with that. And then there's questions. Right right, they interrogate you just as bad as the rbc does when you're trying to, you know, send funds to offshore sportsbooks. 

57:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's the royal bank of canada for, for those who don't know, royal bank yes, absolutely. 

57:13 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Um, so I had to yes, strategically make everything pay under a thousand dollars. That's why we were betting in 300. So it was basically like all our combos were either betting 50s or 25s. 

57:26
Yep, so when one of our runners would go to a lottery operator it would be, you know, run this ticket four times or run this ticket twice to keep everything under a thousand. So the cashing thing was insane. So this was like a hardcore full-time job. I would dedicate specific days just to go cash because, like, first of all, who the fuck has cash on hand these days? Right, everything's digital. But, you know, store clerks would, or store owners would, get a cut, right, I think they got 2% on cashing. 

57:56
So once you go in there a few times with a stack and they're like like what the hell is this guy doing? First of all, but they're like, okay, well, this is free money for me and we're going through a tough time, pandemic, right, like they wanted as much action as I could give them. So you start to become friends with these people and they're like okay, I'm good for 10,000. Okay, I'm good for 20,000, 30,000, you know what I mean. And then you start building your way up. So that helped me out a lot. 

58:21
But I would literally have to go everywhere. I'm talking like Etobicoke, as far out as Brampton, all across downtown Toronto, inside the path, eastern Toronto, everywhere I had people that would help me out. Scarborough was huge for us, and yeah, and then you know those were cashing days and then you get all the cash back. Now you got to separate the cash right, because they're paying you and whatever they have. I would request hundreds, but that wasn't always conducive. So now you know you're separating all the cash, you're getting ready for the next week, because you're sending a ton out there on a weekly basis. And the process goes over and over and over again. 

59:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, so wild what pisky is describing is an incredibly wide radius um. That from downtown toronto to brampton is like about a 45 minute drive. Depends on where you are in brampton it could be longer than that well, on a sunday a little little less. 

59:15
But the underground path for people who don't know that it's, it's literally an underground path in toronto that looks like kind of like a shopping mall underneath the city that connects subway stations that have like all these different booths and stuff like that. Um, that's quite a widespread operation for people who can't really, uh, appreciate the perspective of of how far that reached. 

59:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Um this is like a super impressive uh, whatever you want to call it here operations syndicate, something like that but it's super impressive given how whatever you want to call it here operations syndicate, something like that but it's super impressive given how, like people don't realize, if you've never actually played a pro line, if you don't know how it works, like you're not, you're not going up to a sports book ticket writer, just so you guys know, you're going up to literally the guy who works at the convenience store behind the counter Right. So they're used to the majority, 99% of people are going in paying for gas, paying for gas at a gas station and or buying a chocolate bar or whatever, or buying a lottery ticket, like a lot of 64 yen or something like that. Pro lines a small percentage. So when you go there with a card, it's like what pisky's saying if you, if you don't have that card specifically, you don't know how to write it up. 

01:00:19
Like these guys will make mistakes sometimes, stuff like that, they're not always the most careful, nor do the majority of them even know like what the sport is, any of the players, anything like that, as opposed to like a ticket writer in Vegas or at a sports book in the USA, where you go and you're like, hey, give me the Maple Leafs minus 150. They'll give you the ticket. These guys are like you're giving them a scantron paper, as if you wrote out a test in high school and they're feeding it through a machine and giving you the ticket. And then you're like probably telling them okay, play this three, play this three times, this three times, this, three times. So like I could only imagine the amount of errors. I was also going to ask, basically, like how many lost tickets in there? 

01:00:59 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
you know what our team showed out to them? They were so efficient, they were so good. I think throughout the duration of the year we maybe had like three mistakes, like it was that good, and the amount of tickets that were purchased, like again, you'll see the video of all the winning receipts. But you know, think about the boxes of losers, right, because we didn't win every single ticket. The majority of them lost. It's just when you connected, you fucking connected. 

01:01:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, they're all part of it. To expect to win over 50% is insane. 

01:01:29 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, no, no, there was a ton of losses. I remember we would take all our losing tickets Because, you never know, sometimes maybe the clerk throws away the ticket and then our runner fills out the selection slip wrong. So we basically took every single losing ticket and gave it to some family members and said, okay, your job is to just check these, check in the envelope, make sure there's no cash left, go through every single ticket, scan them to make sure there's no winners. And sometimes they were right. Right Because, hey, like it's 5.30 in the morning on a Sunday, I filled out the box five instead of box four. Right, it happens, it didn't happen often. So you never know when you have an envelope full of winners and one envelope is like I don't know, it was anywhere from, like, let's say, 5,000 to 9,000, right, so that's significant, obviously. So it was wild, wild, what were other crazy ass stories. 

01:02:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was always wondering about bad runners, because if a runner sees what you're doing right, I'm wondering if they take their $25 tickets and then they pull 500 bucks out of pocket and say, like feed it through another five or six times and like it's a risk on the runner's end because they're part of something good. But you always have that. Maybe I'm just speaking too much from experience of someone who's like greedy in a sense, that they're like yeah, you know what they don't need to know, type of thing. So I was curious if you had any situations with a runner that just kind of like was a potential threat to blowing up the operation. 

01:03:05 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
I mean, our original warning to all our runners was you know you're getting paid a good salary. We would give them 5% of whatever they bet. So if you can get down 5k in a day, you get 5% of 5k. 

01:03:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
As a free roll. So no losses, no losses In general Wait wait, did you just pay that out regardless? 

01:03:28 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
If whatever they played, they would get 5%. So if you want to do a short day and whatever, every time you play $100. 

01:03:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's not saying 5% of winnings. 

01:03:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So you're saying you just gave five percent off the top just for getting the volume down? 

01:03:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yes, that can give you perspective on what the roi is. So that will give. 

01:03:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That gives you all you need to know on if the roi is higher like I said, I I'm not the numbers guy. 

01:03:52 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
I'm not going to sit here and debate what the roi is plus. Ev said it was impossible. The full dog says I have the data, so I'm going to leave it for those fair enough, those guys are math geniuses, not, so. 

01:04:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Here's what I got asked then is did you give them anything extra in addition to the five percent of volume? 

01:04:07 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
at the end of the season. Uh, there was. We always like to throw a party, so we we always like to have fun too. That's another thing, about this. 

01:04:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is this is one. This is some of the greatest talk I've ever heard like what I would have given to be a part of this operation is a lot. 

01:04:25 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
You know what? I haven't talked about this too much. I think you guys might be the first. I've mentioned bits and pieces here and there, but never to this depth. It's out there and that's why I always say I'm pretty sure it could be a movie, I'm telling you. 

01:04:43
But yes, here at the Banfield Group we love to have a good time. Right, we work, we work really hard during high season, but we always like to treat the people that help us out. You know we like to show them. So what we did for the ticket project party, we invited everyone for a dinner. I always like going to the keg down on king street in toronto. Honestly, guys, like you know, obviously this was a ton of hard work and a lot of ups and downs, but I always enjoyed going to watch the thursday game. I would put my hoodie on, put, put the lulus on, throw, throw it super casual, right, get my ball cap out. I'd probably pop a gummy and I'd go sit at the corner of the bar at the Keg on King Street in Toronto. I'd order myself a nice baseball steak. 

01:05:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All the baseball servants. Which they can't cook past medium rare because of the cold. Yes, absolutely, and I would sit there in heaven, I would go low carb. 

01:05:41 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
I'd go Brussels sprouts off the menu, brussels sprouts off the menu. 

01:05:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, it is definitely a good order. 

01:05:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, I'm a twice baked guy. Some go garlic mashed. 

01:05:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I've been going recently with the cauliflower mash Underrated. You know, roast me, it's all good, but it's an underrated dish. 

01:06:01 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
I love it. I'm not a chain guy but I love the keg. I I find it very consistent and it's just a cool, chill place to hang out. And, like I said, I would probably start with I'd go completely off the board. Sometimes I'd start with a fucking martini and then, you know, get a glass of wine with dinner and I would be in heaven. And I, I remember I would send out a group text to some of my runners and some of my close buddies and say guys, it's thursday, you know where I'll be if you want to join, by all means. But I, you know, sometimes they would, sometimes they wouldn't. If they wouldn't I wouldn't give a. I would be in my glory just sitting there enjoying the game and having a nice steak. 

01:06:34
But yeah, for the party we went to the keg. We had had a blast out there drinks, food, everything. And then our surprise to the group was I had this thing called the circus bus waiting outside for us. So we put everyone. It's basically a school bus that has been gutted out. There's benches inside and I got them to put in a giant ball pit, so those plastic balls that you slide into at mcdonald's when you're a kid. 

01:07:04
Yeah, that was in the middle of our bus. So we got on there, we plugged in the phone, we had the tunes and we just drove around. We had a bunch of seltzers going on and for the next two hours we just drove around the gta and our first thought this is the best part, this still my like. Some of my top runners still like give me a big hug about this every time thought this is the best part, this still my like. Some of my top runners still like give me a big hug about this. Every time they say this was the most glorious thing. 

01:07:27
Our first stop in the party bus was at the old headquarters and they have a big sign out there saying the old G Prize Center. And we all got out and we took a massive group picture all putting up the number seven just to let everyone know, let the lottery corporation again, this isn't something about bragging, you know I I don't think we're smarter than anyone else. There was an opportunity. We took advantage of this opportunity, but sticking it to them is again one of the best feelings I've ever had in my life. 

01:07:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm all for a great spot story like just what a story I I indeed by the way, the keg does not pay us for for any sponsorships. But if they did, I would 100. 

01:08:06
If you if you go to the keg in toronto and then you fly to vancouver and go to the keg in vancouver or or in halifax or whatever different parts of canada, and you order the same dish, it's gonna come out the exact same way, like the consistency at the keg. It's not the best steakhouse in the world, but if you are an american and you ever come up to toronto, you'll get a solid steak for a good price and it'd be very, very consistent wherever you go and you? 

01:08:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
you won't pay for a bad steak there they don't they don't mess up, and if they do, you better believe they're confident, or that, or giving you something. 

01:08:39 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Oh yeah. 

01:08:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Unbelievable service at the Keg Steakhouse and Bar. See you tonight, yeah. 

01:08:46 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Tons of value at the Keg and it's good to get away, because sports guys usually you know what are you doing. You're sitting in a pub, you know, eating pub grub, chicken wings, french fries. You can't do that Like I'm fucking running around the city of toronto, all like the amount of steps that I put in last year. I'm telling you I I think I crushed world records because there was so much walking around and I'm like no, this I deserve, I deserve this little treat every thursday night and, uh, divide there the vibe. You know what I mean. You can go and have a great meal and it's kind of laid back and you know the people are friendly. 

01:09:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I, I just love it. I have nothing but good things to say and that's the only chain I will support. To be honest, well, this is so good, like why is? Why is pisky on the podcast talking about this? Like what happened? Like is he not doing anymore? He's retired, quit, what is it? So I just want to ask I guess we know the answer. We've mentioned it a few times, but talk us through kind of like that edge evaporating, going away, why it went away, what happened, and then you know what, what olgs offer now yeah, it's. 

01:09:57 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
It's sad, uh and not just for myself for the other very sharp groups that were out there doing things that were very similar to what we were doing. So they went to a more traditional sportsbook style system where you can now make straight bets and this old antiquated system that they could not change their odds and they had to put everything out the night before it went away. They basically threw it in the garbage. It was done, it was over with. So the opportunity, the error that they were committing, that we were taking advantage of, disappeared, gone forever. So I never like to get too deep into what exactly they were doing. I'm sure you know you guys are sharp bettors. Uh, there's a lot of sharp burgers out there that I'm sure can put two and two together of what they were doing. I don't like to go into depth too much because I'm hoping that one day that you know there's a sports book out there that will get greedy and make the same kind of mistake, and then you know we will. We already have the data, so we will jump into action and go after them instantaneously. Right now, in the current form, there's nothing like it, but you never know, right, things change and that's that's why I never like to go too deep into it. But that's what happened. It went away and then it was time to move on. 

01:11:25
And I remember coming out to Bet Bash here in Vegas in April. That's when the full dog and I were together for the first time in person and he said what's next? Obviously we've got to make a move. And in the moment it just came up, it was the first suggestion. He's like what do you think about Vegas? And I'm like, fuck, I would do Vegas, I would come out here. I said, but you've got to promise me one thing Like you can't. Like we were starting with the whole social media thing right With TikTok and Twitter, and starting with the whole social media thing right with tick, tock and twitter, and I, I love it. I I'm fully invested in it. I love building the community and creating. You know just the story, the story of banfield group, um. 

01:12:12
But I told him like dude, you know I'm new at this stuff, I I don't really know what I'm doing. A lot of times I'm just throwing mud at the wall and hoping that it sticks. So if it's just for social media, like I can't come out to vegas and just do content. Like that's crazy, right. I said you gotta, you know, promise me. Like is there, um, uh, a benefit of me being out here for the betting operation? And he said, absolutely Right, I mentioned it earlier on. He's like fuck, I've been staring at the Donbass screen for years and looking at places like the Mirage and Westgate and, you know, even even Circa, because we knew that. You know they welcomed winners and didn't kick winners out. 

01:12:56
So, yeah, that's kind of where we made the decision. I'm like OK, fuck it, I'm going to Vegas, that's it, I'm doing it. So I had to run that by the girlfriend. I did not expect good things to come out of that conversation, but she was on board. She's like, yeah it, let's do it. And I think it was a combination of like okay, you know, moving on to the next thing, new adventure, fun. But you know, obviously we've all had a rough, really, really rough, past two years. Right, we were basically in shackles, in lockdown, lockdown. So this was something that I'm like no, I'm fucking going, I want to change, I want to go after it, I want to be free. And that's how it all came together. 

01:13:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So what made you decide to do a drive across the continent? Because I saw the Jeep. I've seen the pictures of Jeep on social media the Betmobile, I think. The license plate's betting 247, right, we bet 247. We bet 247. Always betting, we bet 247. Okay, so obviously you could take a flight from Toronto to Vegas pretty easily. I guess it's probably to do with your commitment to content. But walk me through that discussion of like, okay, we're going to just get this Jeep. 

01:14:03 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
We that discussion of like, okay, we're gonna just get this jeep, we're gonna drive to vegas, we're gonna stop at a bunch of places along the way, um, curious what led to that decision? Uh, yeah, so again, banfield group we like to have a lot of fun, right, uh, as serious as sports betting has to be at times, we like to. And again, if you follow us on on social, you can see that I like to have fun with that. I like to keep things easy and light, but this was something that I've always wanted a Jeep Wrangler. That was one of the things that I think got me through the pandemic that I just watched Jeep video after Jeep video after Jeep video on YouTube. I can't even explain why. Maybe a sense of adventure, sense of being free. 

01:14:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm with you by the way I love Jeeps and and, in the summer especially, being able to take the doors off. Oh yeah, I don't know why I love that concept, but I see a jeep like that and I'm like I'm sold, yeah yeah. 

01:14:45 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
So I, this has been a dream of mine forever. So, um, I, I had like, I went through, hey, you're younger, you don't really know. So I, I had an audi before that and I'm like, oh, I'm kind of done with that. You know, I want just something that I can drive anywhere, drive over things, right. 

01:15:00
So I changed it up and the full dog and I we had a few conversations like you know what's best for content, content and betting, and we know how busy things get during the football season. So we're like, fuck, fuck, we have to have fun now. Right, the summer is our time to go. We don't do a lot of baseball. So it's like, okay, let's make this. How are we going to do this? And we just came to the idea of, fuck it, let's do a road trip. And I'm like, yeah, toronto to vegas, like that's intense. So we hooked it up. I think it was 36 hours if we did it straight. But he's like, no, no, leave it to me. Full Dog's a great planner. He loves, like, looking up hotels and finding deals and shit like that. 

01:15:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's a travel guide as well. Yeah, yeah, man of trade. 

01:15:44 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
He just built a fortress down in Costa Rica too. Like we got some Airbnb stuff going on down there, so he's into that too now, like the guy does a bit of everything he's an all-time value charger. 

01:15:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's what it is. It's probably like searching all these hotel sites and getting you incredible, incredible value finds for sure. 

01:16:00 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yes, yes, I'm telling you that's exactly what he did and he made sure that, you know, we were close to either casinos or sporting events or something like that. He basically planned like a trip of a lifetime. So I left it to him and then I'm like okay, well, yeah, I'm going to get this Jeep and fuck it, I'm turning it into the Batmobile and shout out to plus EB he was the one that actually named it the Batmobile, Cause I was thinking the Banfield mobile or whatever, Jeep, whatever. And now he's like no Batmobile is the way to go. 

01:16:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So yeah, it is a pretty solid. It's a good one. It is a pretty solid name. Yeah, it's a good one. 

01:16:33 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, it's solid. 

01:16:35
I don't like to give them credit too often, but so then, yeah, the full dogs started putting together this trip and I went and got, I turned it into the Betmobile with the always betting on the side and our logo and I put a big thing on the spare wheel in the back that screams always betting podcast. So it was like, okay, we're driving across country and we're going to do content the entire way. We got in a couple podcast episodes and, um, yeah, just did tick tocks the entire way. And the godfather so he was the third man in this crazy ass trip that we put together. The godfather is the third member on our podcast and I worked with him at the olgy. He's the one that hired me at the olg, so I worked side by side with him for the last 13 years. He's basically my second father and when I told him about this plan of the road trip and stopping at casinos and sporting events along the way, he's like he goes, I want to come. I'm like, are you serious? And now know, the godfather's got a family, he's got three young daughters, he's got a wife and he's like, yeah, no, I've never done something like this. I want to come. 

01:17:43
So he sat in the back of that Jeep the entire way and kept us company. He's big into the espressos, so we made sure to incorporate some espresso reviews throughout the United States, and let me tell you there's not too many great espressos from Toronto to Vegas, believe it or not, but yeah, we just had a great time with it. And yeah, the stops were because sports betting has expanded in a way that we never thought possible. Right, we're coming from the offshore industry in a way that we never thought possible. Right, we're coming from the offshore industry, where everything was like taboo, right, like and and that's a reason too, why, um, if, if you go on to our social and you notice that everything is in black and white, there's a reason behind that. Uh, we're the gray area, guys. 

01:18:29
We've always been the gray area, guys right, we're always the guys involved in sports betting. So when I started creating content, I I just I don't know everything was black and white. It kind of fit our theme and we're the gray area guy, so we just stuck with it and now it's a thing that's it and all the content is black and white. So that's the reason behind that. But we decided to set up um stops along the way amongst at casinos to check out their sports betting landscape in different states. And, uh, ball stadiums right, I think we we stopped at four different ball stadiums all together. So, yeah, it was. 

01:19:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was an incredible trip if you're ever looking for a great espresso, it's no, no finer one than at the bet stamp headquarters. So we'll have you and the godfather over here oh, we take our espresso, very, I had one before the show in our custom bed stamp espresso cups right here, beautiful, but we should do something. We should link up in the summer, if you're back in Toronto, I guess. At any point, what are the plans? Do you plan to come back or do you just? 

01:19:28 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
kind of go to. 

01:19:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Vegas for as long as you can. Yeah, no. 

01:19:31 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
I'm here in Vegas. I'm here in Vegas. I'm not working. Well, I'm betting. It's a recreational thing. This is not set up to be a business or anything like that. I'm basically here as a snowbird on an extended stay. We crossed the border on August 15th. The rules are murky. As a Canadian, you're allowed to spend six months in the US yeah, uh, but is that six months consecutively? Like I know, we were here in bet bash. I was here for a week in april and everything online is kind of like murky. So I ended up calling the border patrol and they basically said uh, when you cross at christmas, have a discussion with the border patrol agent and see what he says. Right, because I would been fine. Like, the plan here was to leave at the end of January. But seeing as though I spent this entire football season here in Vegas, I'm like, okay, you know, it'd be really cool to spend the Super Bowl here, right? So that's another two weeks away after the end of January. 

01:20:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But it works perfect. And because if you said August 15th, that takes you to Februarybruary 15th, superbowl's february 12th that's yeah. 

01:20:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Is it by calendar year? Like what is it like? 

01:20:40 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
that's what you're saying, I see well, that's, yeah, that's the thing that the week at bet bash is what was complicating things, because there was an extra seven days there, so does that count towards the total? Anyways, I still don't have the exact answer, but I did just go home for christmas and I spoke with the border patrol agent as I crossed and I'm like listen, I've been in Vegas a while, I'm just there basically vacationing, I'm doing some bedding. Can I stay for Super Bowl? It's an extra two weeks. I'm sure you can see that I've been here a while. And he hinted and hawed and looked and clicked his computer a bunch of times and he said, yeah, no problem. He gave me an extension, actually a six-month extension, and said, yeah, enjoy the big game and just make sure that, when it's said and done that, you head back north and get back on your side of the border. I said, okay, no problem. 

01:21:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Are you still an Ontario tax resident or no? We could talk this over. 

01:21:32 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah I am. We could talk yes, yeah, yeah, yeah I am, and so that's another thing. That's come up with this tax thing. So I want to. I want to start this by saying I am not a tax expert, I don't know do and I'm like taxes. And he said Pisky just pumped the brakes a second. He goes. 

01:22:00
First of all, I know a lot about the gambling industry and I know you guys are sharp and I know you're expecting to win long-term, but make the money first. Make the money first and then when you come back to Canada, then we can figure out you know what needs to be taxed, what doesn't need to be taxed, because there's a complication there. Right, tax gambling earnings are not taxable in Canada. So there's there's complications there. And I'm just taking his advice where we're going to see the season through and we're going to see where we end up. We did a lot of contests out here uh, circus, survivor circuit, millions. Uh, westgate, everything, william hill. So we do. It doesn't look like we're going to cash in any of those, so that kind of comes off the top too. So anyways, yeah, big complication. I'm not sure about the tax thing, but we'll figure that out when I get back to canada so yes, to answer the question. 

01:22:51
I am going back to Canada in February. My brother's out west in Calgary and my plan is to drive north there, spend some time he's got two young little boys and spend some time as Uncle Pisky and then eventually make my way back to Toronto. My girlfriend, you know, wants to be back around her family and Toronto makes the most sense for us right now. So we're going to head back there and then uh see what the next chapter is that that drive from calgary to toronto is going to be a bad one. 

01:23:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like you're going to see a lot of uh, of corn and wheat, I guess, through the central manitoba and northern ontario, but that's going to be a rough one yeah, my girlfriend's already extracted herself from that situation. 

01:23:39 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
She says I will gladly go north. I think it's about 18, 19 hours. We're going to do stops, I think, in Utah, idaho and Montana, along the way before we get to Calgary. And then she says I'll stay in Calgary a bit but I'm flying to Toronto. I'm not doing that one. And then I think my dad said that you know, maybe I'll come out and we can do the drive together and stop at some junior games along the way home and stuff like that. So that's kind of on the table right now. We'll have to see. 

01:24:07
But yeah, we are in the Batmobile and it has four-wheel drive, so I'm excited to get her into the snow and make our way east. But yeah, it's not going to be easy. 

01:24:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What was your favorite spot that you stopped at en route from Toronto to Vegas? 

01:24:23 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
All right. So I made a list for you guys. I made a list of basically our itinerary from Toronto to Vegas and I think you guys and the listeners will enjoy this. So, right out of the gate, we crossed at the Detroit border. 

01:24:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That was an experience To see Joey Knish, obviously in Detroit, Uncle K. Uncle K, a big part of the hammer betting network, friend of ours. 

01:24:45 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, we follow him on Twitter. I've seen some clips of him. He's a pretty entertaining guy. So, yeah, shout out to Joey Knish, but crossing at the border with as weird of a story as we had. So we're three dudes one's a resident of Costa Rica, one's in, and then there's two Toronto. I sold everything in Toronto. I didn't want to have any loose ends. I was renting at the time it was a pretty expensive condo, so I'm like I'm getting this off the book so I got rid of all my shit. So that that was kind of confusing. That was. That was tough. And I remember crossing the border and the border patrol. You know, when we told him that we were going to vegas, he kind of laughed and chuckled and made some sort of joke about a strip club or something like that and yeah, we're like, okay, this is going to be easy. 

01:25:29
And then, boom, he slaps a sticker on the windshield. He's like, yeah, you're going to want to pull in there, yeah. 

01:25:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've had that trip before. 

01:25:35 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yes, so, and then then then it got like then it was nerve wracking, right, so you get out, uh, we brought some cash over the border more than I've ever brought in before, you know just to fund all the sports books out here. And so you know there was an explanation that was due there and they had to count the money. And then they spoke to us as a group and then they spoke to us all individually and then they searched the bet mobile left, right. They searched everything, they went through all our luggage and the biggest stickler sticking point was the full dog. 

01:26:07
So what he does because he lives in costa rica and amazon isn't really like a big thing there uh, every time he comes to toronto he'll order like clothes for his daughter. Yep, right, little baby clothes, essentially. So he had ordered a bunch of from Amazon. We had it in the betmobile and that was the Border Patrol's focus. He's like what the hell is baby clothes, our baby clothes, doing in the car with three dudes? You guys have families here there are going on, spill your beans, and we're like no, and we tried to tell this story of like amazon and whatnot, and they they had, they didn't want nothing to do with it like they thought we were full of. But eventually we pleaded our case like listen, we're not doing anything, we're not supposed to. We're literally going to vegas. So, yeah, that was a bit of an experience we ended up getting through. That was great. We spent the night in detroit going to all the casinos. Uh, you got to be careful there when you're walking around at night. There's. 

01:26:59
I don't know, it's a little dodgy at times in certain areas, so that that was an experience. But, uh, some of the sports books were really cool the barstool sports book I think it might have been in the Motown casino. It was actually pretty nice. So that was cool to see what they had going on there. And then we made our way to indianapolis. That was our second stop. We stopped there for an indianapolis indians game. Uh, triple a baseball dollar hot dog night probably went a little bit overboard there. That wasn't a great feeling, but cool experience. Great ballpark, really nice. Indianapolis was really clean. So we had we had some good times there, uh. 

01:27:33
The next stop on the trip was again, uh, as much as we're always betting, we're always learning as well. East st louis. So east st louis is actually in illinois. I did not know that. That is just over the bridge from regular st louis, missouri. So we stopped in east st louis. They had a draft kings casino there that, uh, we dressed king sportsbook casino. It was actually pretty cool. We got to check that out. We went to a st Sportsbook Casino. It was actually pretty cool, we got to check that out. We went to a St Louis Cardinals game. That was a really cool experience. 

01:28:00
East St Louis, again another place that you shouldn't be walking around at night. The locals there, after the cards game, they told us okay, which one is your subway? Stop that one. Okay, do not go a subway further. Do not go a subway further. After that, a subway further. After that, you better stay to where you are. So, again, good learning experience. So that was, that was st louis. Then we made our way to kansas. Kansas is an interesting spot that, uh, I remember going to have lunch at this place called. Uh, oh shit, I remember I forget the name the. Um. Oh, the guys watching this are gonna kill me uh I'll come back to it. 

01:28:37
Anyways, very interesting spot kansas. But we went to the kansas, the heartland motor speedway, okay for race night in america. So our goal was to, because we were doing content the entire way down. We wanted to get the betmobile on the track because we heard you could do that and just fire it down the track and take some TikToks or whatever. They wouldn't, let us do that. The Bluff is the place that it's called. There we go. The Bluff, the Bluff, yeah. 

01:29:04
So anyways no Race Night in America is basically anyone can go to the track. You just got to sign up, sign a waiver, and you can take your automobile and rip it around the course. So that was pretty cool to see. Right, there wasn't a whole ton of people there, but again, just completely different environment than what we're used to. And then we made our way to Blackhawk, colorado. So have you guys ever been there, blackhawk? 

01:29:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've been to Denver, but I've not been to Blackhawk, and you've been to Denver as well. Yeah, I haven't been there, okay. 

01:29:32 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, so Blackhawk Colorado is essentially a mini Vegas. That's why we stopped there. We spent the weekend there. They have all kinds of sports books. I think there was like not like Colorado's big for sports betting, but these guys have brick and mortar places that you can play at the kiosks. That was super cool, like, literally, blackhawk. I think the population of Blackhawk is like 75 people, like it's. It's literally that small. It's a place carved out in the middle of the rocky, so the scenery is absolutely stunning and we got to vet at places like barstool and fanduel and basically everyone was there. 

01:30:07
Monarch monarch has an independent line code of a lot of sports books that are on the don best board, so that was cool. That was something that we wanted to check out. That's where we actually. It was a draft, yeah, it was draft Kings. We actually got banned from playing the fucking kiosk. We were there for three days and we had a manager came up to us and told us to stop betting at the kiosk. If you want to play any fucking any, any plays, you come to the key. You come to the counter. 

01:30:34
Yeah, so that was interesting. Again, we're used to this shit. Right, it's a constant cat and mouse game when you know what you're doing in sports betting, but that was pretty unique, being literally there for three days. So, anyways, I highly recommend Blackhawk Colorado. It's in the middle of nowhere but it's a really nice town Really, really. Again, the scenery was incredible. A lot of good opportunity there if you're sports better. Next up was albuquerque, new mexico. Okay, uh, that was the uh albuquerque isotopes game. So we went to a rocky's game too in denver. So that was pretty cool. 

01:31:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
My course field, course field yeah you know. 

01:31:11 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
And then obviously we bet the under. Like, who bets the under? The rock field, yeah, and we, we. It was looking great out of the gate, but you know how it could get in that sure he probably had like an eight run inning or something like that. 

01:31:22
That's exactly what. In the eighth inning they had an eight-round inning. So, yeah, that that was kind of annoying. But uh, yeah. Then albuquerque we went and watched the albuquerque isotopes play another triple a baseball game experience. And then I'm a big Breaking Bad fan, so I went to around Albuquerque to all the Breaking Bad movie locations or I guess filming locations, and they all exist. 

01:31:45
So you know, we got to go by Walter White's house, we went to the car wash, we went to the nail salon. That Better Call Saul. Better Call Saul is another one that filmed everything in New Mexico. 

01:31:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Los Pollos Hermanos. 

01:31:56 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, so we went to all those spots it was super cool, got pictures with the Batmobile Awesome experience and then that was that. That was, I think it was, in total, a 10-day journey. We finally pulled into Vegas. It was a great feeling. I think I had slept in. Yeah, I think it was a great feeling. I think I had slept in. Yeah, I think it was 11 total beds in 12 days or something like that. It was wild, just absolutely wild. Pulled into Vegas, we did a Raiders Patriots preseason game, so we got to see Allegiant Stadium for the first time, which was a fantastic experience. 

01:32:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I missed you. I missed you then that we I was in in Vegas that same week, that week, oh really I should have hit you up but I didn't. That we I was in in Vegas that same week, that week I should have hit you up, but I didn't even really know. But yeah, I was there for the Patriots Raiders. 

01:32:41 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Okay, I didn't go to the. 

01:32:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I didn't go to the game. I was, I was planning on going to the game and things got out of hand a little earlier. Things got a little bit you know I yeah when you're at. You know when you can go to the pool and drink all day, then the football becomes an afterthought after a while. 

01:32:58 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Absolutely. Vegas is dangerous like that. That's the one thing that I've learned out here is that you need an extraordinary amount of discipline to stay focused and do the betting that I have to do. But, man, things can get out of hand real fast. Like you know, just the other night I go to the Bellagio for a Monday night football game and it's like, okay, I'm going to take it easy tonight, I'm not drinking. Then you're sitting there and I'm like I've got to drink something. 

01:33:25
I get a seltzer, we'll take it easy. Just a seltzer, and you take a seltzer, boom, that goes down real nice. Then all of a sudden I'm surrounded by a group from Boston the Patriots were in town for the regular season and they're oh, come on, you got to have a drink with us. I'm like okay, onto the Negroni. I get a Negroni in me and then finish the Negroni and you know they take off. They have dinner reservations, thank God. And then sitting there, then a group from Seattle shows up and they're like oh, you got to have a shot with us. 

01:33:51
I'm like christ, okay, now I have a shot, and then you know you got to get another drink and the game's, you know, halfway through the game. So that's the thing. I went there with the intention of just having a quiet night to watch the game and it turns into a fucking shit show just out of thin air like that. 

01:34:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So that's vegas that is, uh, that is vegas. Um again, you can follow pisky at banfield group, twitter, tiktok and instagram. We will definitely play that tikt clip, the one we were referring to earlier in the show, because I went through all the TikToks and I do follow you guys and that one, that one cracked me up quite a bit. 

01:34:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So edit it in post if you can Zach for the for the listeners here, or if you want to see it. Just check out the YouTube and then obviously I got one more thing the challenge with sports. 

01:34:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
this is a personal story. I've had the exact same dream as you when you were younger. Right, I want to work for a sports team. I live and breathe sports. I'm a numbers guy. And then I went for an interview as I won't say the organization, but the director of analytics for a professional sports team, and you would imagine that that would come with a certain salary. And then you get to the salary discussion and it's like doesn't even come close to that, because there's people lining up for that job, right, like they literally cannot. They're going through stacks of thousands of resumes for a job like that, so that once I realized there's no money in sports until you make it to, like you know, gm. 

01:35:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, then it's like uh, I'd rather I'll keep it. Speaking of money, pisky, I got to ask you this. It was not on the notes so we'll surprise you with this If you listen to. Um, you know a few previous episodes. We've asked guests this in the past. The question is the billion dollar flip, otherwise known as the Billy dollar flip. So so, basically, if you were presented an opportunity where you could flip a coin regular coin, heads, tails um, if you call it correct, you win a billion dollars, one billion, all right, okay, at what amount would you like sell that flip, to sell that opportunity to somebody else for, so obviously expected value? On that 500 million, you get a billion. If you win it, you lose it $0. You walk away home. What amount would you cash out at? 

01:36:06 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Oh, that's a, that's a tough, that's a question for the full dollar. Now he's the math guy, not me Well if we have him on one day we'll ask guy, not me well, if we have him on one day. 

01:36:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So just just like think about it from this perspective. If I came up to you and said I'll give you 200 million dollars, uh, right now, and you're no longer flipping that coin, like do you take that or do you flip it anyways, like it's. 

01:36:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But we've gotten very, very different answers, just so you can gauge the question. If I had asked you right now, then I like, let's say, I just actually offer you this all, all right, a hundred dollar bet, flip a coin me versus you. A hundred dollar bet, not a big deal, whatever, let's go, you're probably. If I say I'll, I won't, we won't bet. But, um, you know, pay me, I'll pay you, I'll pay you $47. You're not going to take that right, cause it's $3 less than expected value. This is a hundred bucks. You probably don't care about it. So you're like, okay, why would I take that bet? I'll take 51, maybe, right, but I might not take 47. So in that scenario it's easy to see. But when you're at the billion dollar range that's what we're trying to get here it's a really good question to gauge kind of like risk tolerance, stuff like that, and it's cool because you've already, you know you've cashed out on something, so it's curious to see your opinion on that. Well, what's I? 

01:37:12 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
am super conservative, so I am very risk intolerant. The risk guy again is my partner. So I would say and I know the math, people are going to kill me for it. But yeah, if you offered me, would you say $470 million? I'd say in a heartbeat because you have the risk of losing it if it goes the opposite way. Right, yeah, but what's the lowest? 

01:37:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
you would take. 

01:37:34 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Oh, what's the lowest I would take? 

01:37:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, like what's the lowest you would take. Oh, what's the lowest I would take. 

01:37:39 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, like what's the lowest amount that you'd be like, all right, I'll still cash out for this. What's it? What's it cost to run a sports book these days? How much to buy a sports book? 

01:37:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, to buy one could be anywhere between $1 and uh. I think wind bet was asking 500 million, but it doesn't look like they got it. Probably be better off starting your own at that point. 

01:37:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I think like the startup cost for a book is probably in like the 10 to $20 million range. I would guess Depends how hard you got to go on marketing. True, it depends on what your marketing budget is. 

01:38:09 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, okay, okay, christ, I mean the lowest I would go. I actually I actually don't know. I would say um call it, call it a hundred million. Okay, is that crazy? 

01:38:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, it's not at all. We've got way lower than that personally. 

01:38:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So if I offered you 99 mil. You're not taking that. 

01:38:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is where it gets tricky. Right. It's a great question. 

01:38:37 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Oh man, I uh. Again there is. There is a mathematical formula in this and I'm sure the full dog is going to be watching this and just shaking his head at me no, but, but it doesn't matter, like I'm a math guy, right? 

01:38:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
but I'm in I'm in your boat as well. Like for me, I don't, and personal situations matter for people like I don't have kids, right, I don't have to leave money behind to my kids or my grandkids. I just need enough to comfortably do whatever I want for the rest of my life, and that's the amount that I would take. I don't have to be greedy or anything like that. So anything like 10 to 20 million boom, I would. 

01:39:11 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
I would forego the flip right there yeah, yeah, like I say yeah, am I gonna say, say yeah, am I going to say no to 10 million? No, I wouldn't say no to 10 million Like yeah. 

01:39:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So yeah, you wouldn't say no to 10 million on the way for a, on the chance for a 500, for a billion dollars, but when? 

01:39:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
you're like when you're conservative, like Pisky, you're myself. 

01:39:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I can't even explain how easily and quick I would say no to 10 million? 

01:39:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sure, I know, but you have no problem working and grinding hard for like $10 million, right, that's fine to each their own. I'm beat down, man. If you give me 10 million and I don't have to work for that anymore, boom, I'm taking that. I'll ride off into the sunset, buy a few places around the world, travel and like that's my life. 

01:40:02 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Absolutely. I'm the same way too. So, honestly, if I got a question like this, the first person I would call would be the full dog and say what do I do? And I'll give you guys an example. 

01:40:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Did you guys hear the mad dog story about the circus survivor? Yeah, we did. I was following that in real time. I was like really, because I had the stealers that night in that game, I'm like man, like imagine the mental state you're in watching that game oh my goodness, like crazy. 

01:40:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So for those who don't, know this was the circus survivor pool. We had derrick stevens on the podcast earlier before the year. He talked all about it. You can find the rules and everything back in that podcast sack link in the description. But basically this guy there was four people left he had already survived and there was three people that had the steelers left in the night game versus the raiders. So christmas eve on christmas eve. So if the raiders have win that game now, as we mentioned, the steelers won. If the Raiders win that game now, as we mentioned, the Steelers won. If the Raiders win that game, that guy goes home six million unsplit pot. It's all his. 

01:41:02
What happened was Raiders end up losing that game in the final minute. Kenny Pickett fourth and one converts it. So if he doesn't convert that one play, this guy goes home six million USD cold hard cash. Instead, cold hard cash. Instead you have to pick another game for christmas day. I think he took the dolphins. They lost and he's the only guy eliminated. The other three who had the steelers took other teams and advanced. So now it still goes on. Honestly, a very tough I feel. 

01:41:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You feel for the guy. 

01:41:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's just one there's two guys there's a partnership. But yeah, you feel for that, because to be so close on that, like that's a massive swing on one play, like just even watching that. 

01:41:36 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, so anyways, go ahead. So yeah, so high to so low. But the full dog brought this to my attention and he already had, like, if it happened to us, he already has, like a crazy ass hedge system worked out right Like well he would put 2.1 million here and you would do this there and you do that there, and you can even hedge in the next game going to, and I'm like okay, okay, so yeah, a question like that is how do you get 2.1 down? 

01:42:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
exactly that's the, and he only had a few hours, exactly yeah exactly. 

01:42:08 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Uh, you, we joked about it too. He's like I think I could have done pretty good, but you know we have some pretty solid connections in the offshore industry and stuff like that. But yeah, it would have been. It would have been very, very difficult and you're just max betting everywhere you can. You're talking other groups, you know what I mean. You're sending out massive. Whatever you can get me on this game. You got to get down on it and again you. Only what did he have? Like maybe three hours? 

01:42:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
to do it. Yeah, but on top, like, the issue is moving money around too. Like you know, pinnacle will take 100k a pop. At that time, like before the game, circa will do that as well. Right, you have an offshore that'll do that, but it's like you got to get the money into the book as well. 

01:42:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The only hope is you would have to get a marker at circa and then they would have to given you like a two million dollar marker as like, okay, this is my marker if I, if I lose this bet, it's coming out of my winnings and like, potentially that that would have probably been the only way you can actually get 2.1 mil down at any respectable number. Yeah, um, without leveraging, because you have so many complications. If you're betting on credit and even if you're tapping in, it's like, well, do you have 2.1 mil liquid to pay that out if it loses, because circa is not going to, not going to pay out for a couple weeks on that probably right. And it's like, how do you get that money to those guys? They're not going to, maybe they don't want to settle in us? Yeah, like so. 

01:43:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So it actually is very hard to do oh, yeah, but we've been crazy I think you just go into the mode of that, of that point of just like I'm going to get as much as much as you can as possible down yeah, as a hedge, like realistically, I'm gonna you know, I'll call up every contact I have get me whatever you can um, yeah, we'll be crazy as well. 

01:43:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The steelers were favored in the game, right, so you would have to bet the steelers. But if you in some capacity bet the steelers money line, then are you now? Let's say, you got 2.1 steelers money line, you're now rooting for the steelers to win because you get that 2.1 guaranteed and then you're still in the expected value so you're kind of like almost it's crazy it is yeah, that's exactly how you're rooting for the Steelers to tie the game, the tie, because the tie in the circa. 

01:44:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Eliminates everyone, so you push you push your 2.1 mil. 

01:44:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Take this wow, love doing this. Man, we all there you go you. 

01:44:13 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
You just did the math really quick, but yeah, that's exactly what was thrown at me. And then you know I'm like, okay, yeah, that that would be cool. Hey, listen, any way you cut it, it would be a pretty cool problem to have, yeah, and it would make for one hell of a story, that's for sure. Like I had to bet $2.1 million in three hours and this is how I did it. 

01:44:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We always talk around the office here of like we should develop a tool that when you obviously we have our incredible bet tracking software, uh, through bet stamp. 

01:44:40
But it was kind of like, if you it should, it should tell you what result you're cheering for on this play as a result of all your bets. Cause especially when you everyone has like fantasy teams, different prop bets, different stuff, and then sometimes you might have like maybe you have the over and the under at different numbers and stuff like that and maybe you're rooting for a middle, so I always we always laugh here Like it should tell you like all right, here's what you're rooting for here, field goal. Or you're like you need a touchdown missed, extra point, then you need this guy to not get yards and then them to convert this and get goal for two and win it, and then that's how you win all your bets, like I would love it if it had that for you I I can't tell you guys how many times the full dog and I went back and forth during last year's product uh project, uh, about exact same scenarios, because they were kind of two different entities. 

01:45:26 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Right, we needed something with the ticket project, but the full dog, that's like an animal on the other side as well. Right, he's going after live betting, he's going after halftimes, props, all that shit. So we treated them as two separate. So, yeah, sometimes you know you're cheering for one thing on the ticket side, but you also need something else on the traditional betting side, and, yeah, there's all kinds of different scenarios. And then you can even throw in our useless fantasy league that, uh, you know it causes stress for no reason and yeah, yeah. 

01:45:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You're like I need a Bills touchdown here, but it can't be Diggs Singletary or like three guys and then you're like, let's go. And then you're just rooting and staring at the screen. 

01:46:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, exactly the one thing I remember I don't play a season long fantasy football anymore because I personally just think it's a waste of time. But the pride is so damn important that there will be times where I would be cheering against a significant bet for one of my players to score a touchdown, because I would rather lose like 5K than have my friends rub it in my face. 

01:46:30 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, I recently heard Dave Portnoy complaining about the same thing. Right, he's like I got like a hundred grand on this game, but meanwhile deep down inside, fantasy is fucking me up because of my stupid $300 league, because, yeah, you don't want to hear it from the other guys in your league right, same thing on our end Fucking fantasy league that we created, oh my goodness. 

01:46:51
And by we I mean the Godfather. Full Dog doesn't fuck with fantasy. He's like no, he says what you say the waste of time. So you guys are smart, we're idiots, oh no. 

01:46:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know John loves fantasy. I play fantasy, I come into the office. 

01:47:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It was not my year this year. 

01:47:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll give it straight. I knew it wasn't his year, by the way, because, oh, you see the game that this guy had, I scooped them off the waiver, wire this, and that you know this was very quiet this year. 

01:47:20 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
I was mute as well. I actually like stopped watching football at certain points, because what we created is I think it's the craziest fantasy football league on the planet we have relegation, so if you finish in the bottom two of the top league, you go down to the b league there's no way, I'm playing no but you gotta work your way back up, man chance you gotta, you gotta restore. 

01:47:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If I got relegated to a lower tier league, I'm out. I'm out of fantasy. There's no way that's. 

01:47:48 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
That's exactly what the godfather says. He hasn't had to deal with relegation yet and he says that, pesky, if I fucking, if that, if I go near that I'll, you'll never see me again. I'm not playing this stupid game, but yeah, we got a big ass trophy. It's called the jungle bowl. There's three leagues, there's three divisions. So if you lose in the b league, you go down to the c league and that's beyond embarrassing and then valiant soccer yeah, and and so to yes. 

01:48:13
to go on to your point, uh, I embarrassingly got relegated this year. I'm going down to the B League next year and yeah, that's it Fantasy sucks. 

01:48:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That happens, all right. So I guess, we'll close off with our final question here. We've asked it to all our guests on this podcast. Pisky, thank you for coming on. It was a great, great interview, one of my favorites, definitely so far. So our closing question is if you could go back five years this would be back when you were still working at the OLG here in Ontario what would be the one piece of advice that you would give to your former self? 

01:48:48 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Well, I think it would be buy Bitcoin. You guys hate that, so he has listened to him. 

01:48:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're not fans of that answer. 

01:48:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I know, at this point I think you might be underwater now is it from? Five years ago. Jan, let's go January 2018 yeah, you're under man. 

01:49:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't actually. 

01:49:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You're slightly under this is my prediction. 

01:49:14 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
I think you're slightly under five years ago would have been 2017, right jan 2018. 

01:49:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
January 2018 I'm not sure, jan 2018 bitcoin price was 17 500, it appears oh, you're basically at par, more or less. 

01:49:36 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
No, I'm just fucking around. The full dog gave me a heads up months ago, rob, when we were talking in the summer about doing something like this. He's like when they ask you the question, make sure you don't say something stupid like buy Bitcoin, because they're going to chew you out and they don't like shit like that. 

01:49:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, no. This is a great interview. We really appreciate it, but yeah, what would the advice be? 

01:49:56 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Okay. So this whole social media thing that I started was just something I've had deep down inside me that has needed to come out. I've always had a passion for, like public speaking and connecting with people and stuff. And you guys know, being in the sports betting industry can be very like I don't want to say lonely, but it's a solo mission right, you're in front of the screen with Don Best and like it's very quiet and that that is something that is kind of. And even working at the lottery corporation, we're in a very small office with a very small amount of people cordoned off because we have TVs everywhere, so they had the corner basically like quarantine us. 

01:50:42
So I've always had this desire to get out there and put myself out there, and this social media thing is really something that I needed and I'm going to keep pressing in this direction. So my advice to myself would be get started. Get started five years ago, because you know it's a grind, right, you guys are involved, involved, you know, you understand what the social media game is and building a following. It's a grind and a half, so, and it takes time, right, it takes time getting used to stuff, getting comfortable in front of the camera and speaking. So my advice would be I I wish I would have started about five years earlier. Just little thing like it could be anything right. I knew I had a passion for it, but I was still quite shy and wasn't quite ready. But I wish I was, and that's what I would have told myself five years ago. 

01:51:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair enough. So I guess more, just like you know, get out there a little more for anyone anyone listening. If you've had the urge to do it, you might as well, do it. 

01:51:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think that's pretty solid advice. 

01:51:32 - Pisky Positivo (Guest)
Yeah, you got to take your shot because, as far as we know, you know you get one kick at this can, at this thing called life, and you know if there's something deep down inside that you want to do, sure it's going to be scary. Sure, nobody likes to fail, but failing is not failing, failing is learning. 

01:51:47
So, you gotta, you gotta go after it and uh, you know, when you do it it really feels good and it's an adventure and I'm glad I'm doing it now and uh, yeah, we keep pressing forward that's pisky of the banfield group. 

01:52:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
At banfield group. On twitter, tiktok and instagram, he is part of the always betting podcast. Be sure to check that out. You can also check out the website banfieldgroupcom. If you enjoyed this interview today, smash that like button. Consider subscribing to the circles off channel as well, as we do have more and more of this content planned over the coming months. Pisky, thank you very much for your time. It was good to catch up with you. This has been episode number 83 of circles off on the hammer betting network. Thanks for watching.