00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off, I'm going to talk about why I don't cheer for underdogs in sports. It's a very valid reason as to why I don't. Then we're going to get into tweets that trigger us, and there is a tweet this week that sent me into absolute orbit. I'm going to try to keep it together, but, man, there is one that triggered me to no end. All that and more this week's episode circles off. Welcome to circles off. Episode number 84 here on the hammer betting network, joined by johnny from betstamp. 84 is a is a banger number 84. 

00:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Randy randy. Randy moss likes who's in the nhl lady. 

00:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, come on well, okay, we're gonna jump sports right away, sure, but there is a I use the term legend very loosely. There's a leafs legend, a number 84. Consistent third line player who probably should have played higher in the lineup I don't know Would have been Mikhail Grabowski. 

01:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Grabbo, of course Grabowski, mikhail Grabowski, yeah. 

01:17 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Electric player, Dude. I got thrown right back into a time warp watching the Canada World Juniors because Jason Blake's son was on Team USA. 

01:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And what about all the guys on the Czechs that were like guys' sons as well? 

01:29 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, on Czechia, czechia, sorry Czechia yeah, they don't want to go by Czech. 

01:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Republic, because they can't put Czech Republic on like it's too long. 

01:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think it was Jaro Spacek's kid and then there was like five sons in the tournament of legends. It's now the time where the guys that we kind of grew up watching have their kids that start to play. 

01:51 - Zack Phillips (Other)
But I could just think about the Jason Blake spin-o-ramas and stuff. And they cut to him in the stands and like, oh my God. 

01:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Got the 40-goal season on the Islanders and we gave him that big deal. 

02:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That was a tough one, all right right. What else we got? 

02:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
well, we got lots of 84s antonio brown ab of course ab of course brain scrambled, but uh, very underrated wide receiver number yeah, because they had to do the 80s prior, or teens, and then the 80s were the big one roddy white remember roddy white roddy. 

02:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Roddy white like when you think back on, like really good nfl receivers. He's not going to be in that conversation, but roddy was like a pretty consistent you know he's, he was a pretty consistent receiver the. 

02:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The best clip of roddy white was there. He was in an interview and then, um, basically what happened was they're asking the guy was asking him like best wide receiver duos in the league, and it was him and Julio Jones at the time on the Falcons. And then they asked him who's better, like you guys or these two? And I think, like at the time he they were like going a few, a few nice ones, and then they go Roddy white and Julio Jones or Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks, and then he just looks at the camera and he's like you serious, he was so insulted. He's like you serious. And then he's like the guy's like yeah, yeah, like who's better. And he's like where does Victor Cruz play? And then they're like the slot and he's like big dogs play on the outside. And that was it. I watched that video. Him saying you serious was like an all time moment. He was so like come on, man, why are you talking about Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks? 

03:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Anyways, roddy White, roddy White, I had a lot of fantasy ownership of Roddy White for several years. He was a pretty, he was a PPR legend, I'll put it that way, man. He was catching lots of balls, as was TJ Huchmanzada as well, a number 84. Also slot a lot. I got to see him play in person a few times, but that was like another great combo for years. Chad Johnson slash Ocho Cinco TJ Huchmanzada, chad Johnson next week, maybe Chad Johnson Talk next week. Prince Fielder also wore 84. 

04:04
We haven't done a baseball player in a long time. You don't see baseball players in the 80s a lot. 

04:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Prince Fielder, better known for going up and grabbing a guy's nachos mid-game, do you remember that? I do remember that he went to go catch a foul ball, dropped it and then, as he left, he grabbed the guy's nachos, scooped it in the cheese, took a bite and walked back onto the field I'm uh, I'm committed to making this segment longer and longer yeah, we still got 17 minutes to go. 

04:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We still got a lot of time to appease joey knish. 

04:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I know this is his favorite part of circles off another player who was a son, son of a former player. It was yeah, yeah, his dad was on the jays. Yeah, cecil fielder, yeah legend. 

04:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Another legend today rob well, first and foremostinnacle, the presenting sponsor of Circles Off. They are the world's sharpest sports book. They're now available to Ontario residents. Find out what professional bettors have known for decades Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19 plus in Ontario and, of course, please play responsibly. We cannot preach that enough. Not available to US residents. I wanted to start. 

05:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Made some good money off Pinnacle a couple days ago. I just wanted to let that be known. Pinnacle first to be moved no, no, I didn't make it. So here's what happened Pinnacle first to be moved on the Detroit Lions there you can check all line history in the bed stamp app. But uh, basically what happened was after the Seattle Seahawks had won the game. We're talking NFL playoffs here. 

05:30
Uh, there was a scenario where green Bay and Detroit. The game now wasn't as meaningful for Detroit If they won. You know they still play for pride, but they're not actually going to make the playoffs. If Seattle had lost, they would have made the playoffs. So as soon as Seattle won, which ended up happening in overtime, the market moved and then people had kind of bet Green Bay. They're like okay, now Green Bay's, you know if they win, they in. 

05:51
And you know Detroit, no go. Obviously Dan Campbell shout out our boy, he really wanted to win still. So it's not like they're not trying and they're not playing for like the first overall pick or anything, but in this scenario Green Bay actually got steamed, so they become more of a favorite. And then what I saw happening was on Pinnacle, just all the money was coming in on Detroit and it was pushing the line down. At one point it hit like six and a half for Green Bay and then it moved all the way down to four and a half, four, three and a half at one point and then back up. So I was able to pick up some Detroit Lions bets, root on the Lions there and then cash with that. They ended up winning outright. Didn't even need the four and a half. 

06:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was in the same boat as you. I found it actually really interesting to follow the line movement in the second half of Seahawks and Rams Because at one point it was bouncing. 

06:39
At one point in the live odds the Rams were favored. In the second half they were up to like minus 135 and all of a sudden you saw to see, you know, you see a little bit of a tick at pinnacle towards the lions because the game is more meaningful. Then the seahawks scored a touchdown and it takes back the other way. So there was people basically playing that game while the rams seahawks was going on, because that had an impact on motivation for the final game yeah, yeah. 

07:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So anyway, sign up at Pinnacle. If you don't have an account already, just make sure you sign it up. Deposit, play around with it a little. If you're going to bet they will have the best price. So you got to fire in some bets there and then, even if you're not trying to bet big and you just you know you're a couple $10 better, you will be able to pick up some good good info by keeping your Pinnacle, you know, tab open on your screen and just seeing where that line is moving. So make sure you do that. And then one last plug here Pinnacle customer service. Some of the best in the game. All the sports books in Ontario have had, you know, a bunch of trouble with the geo restrictions and some of the signup processes, especially some of the moving over. So if you do have any issues there with your Pinnacle account, you can contact us. We'll put you in touch with someone or go directly through the customer service and you'll get everything sorted out. 

07:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I want to talk a little bit about the Monday night national championship game, and this isn't even from a betting perspective. But TCU gets pillaged by Georgia and I don't know where you stand on this. Obviously, I think me and you are very similar in the sense that we cheer for our bets first and foremost, like if I bet on something, I'm going to cheer for it. But I hate when people root for the underdog story in like tournament style formats. So we see this every year in March Madness. We see it sometimes in the NCAA playoff. We see it in sports, nba playoffs, nhl or whatever. 

08:32
Am I insane to just want to see like the best teams play the most important games? Like this happens all the time where like okay, like Loyola, chicago 12 seed, like let's root them on to the final four. Why, so that we can see them be a 14 point underdog? To like Duke or North Carolina, like why not just cheer for the one seeds to play in March Madness, especially if you're not betting on them, you get a good game. Like the call like I'm rooting for Michigan against TCU because, I listen, michigan might have got smoked by Georgia as well, but they were not going to be a 14 and a half point underdog at close in a title game. 

09:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
They still would have been a sizable dog, like above seven, but Agreed but like regardless. 

09:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't. I never understand Like it's this mentality of some people where they're like, they just root for the underdog. They want to see chaos Like I want to see good games, but what if the underdog won? 

09:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What if they won? Well, you know what? 

09:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Listen there is historical precedent for that. I mean the Giants won a Super Bowl as like a 13-point dog to the Patriots. The Patriots Brady won his first Super Bowl as a 14-point dog to the Rams. So I'm not saying it can never happen, but like I'm rooting for the likelihood of a good game and like there was so much potential for this to happen, I didn't even get to watch it. This is why I'm upset. 

09:51
Okay, my wife says, rob, we got no groceries. We're going out for dinner tonight. And I'm like, uh, no, national championship game. Like what do you want on uber eats? I'm gonna order. She's like, no, we're going out for dinner. I want to get out of the house. I've been in the house all day. I'm like, all right, fine. So I'm like you know in my head planning places where we could go out and just like sit at the bar and I can watch the game. Um, we had been to the keg already, so it wasn't like a couple days ago, so it wasn't an option. So I'm like, oh, you know, let's go to this other steakhouse called chop chop not even not even close to as good as the keg on record. 

10:28
In my opinion I I agree with you. 

10:30 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I'm on record for that as well, but I'm like anyone works at the keg and can get us any kind of contact? 

10:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
listen I don't even need a sponsorship. No, I'm joking. 

10:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm joking, I would in terms of products or like companies on my list that I'd be happy to promote in life. The keg is very much near the top. I have some of the best. This is the saddest thing I ever gonna say. Some of the best memories of my life come from like those Thursday night, like when I was in my early twenties. Little lounge area at the keg was rocking. I'd go in and have a french onion soup. I'm not, which is amazing. Anyways, no one has any idea what the hell we're talking about. 

11:10 - Zack Phillips (Other)
But like the keg, I'll tell you, is this when I got into the high school, that I did because it was one that you had to apply to my parents took me to dinner. Only, like we're going out for dinner, go to the keg, sit me down. You got into the high school graduate high school, where we go for dinner the keg graduate university. Actually, that was different because I, when I graduated university, is covid, so it couldn't go out, but, like before, I was going to take out from the keg. 

11:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, lots of memories at the keg, uh. But I'm I'm at chop. I walk in the door, you know, diana says to the hostess like table for two and she's like bar or her dining. And I'm like bar. Diana's like we're talking about bar. She's like they got no boots in the bar. I'm like there's a few boots or whatever. 

11:51
I'm like try not to tell her that I want to watch the football game. Because then she's like no, we're gonna sit in the dining area. And I'm like looking, I'm like god, there's no tvs here or whatever. I'm like let's just sit in the. And she's like what game is on that you want to watch? I'm like it's the national championship game or whatever. She's like dining. I'm like all right. So I sat in the dining area and I'm like, all right, I'll be able, I'll be able to go home and watch the second half of this game. We eat dinner. I'm not checking my phone or anything like that. I go to the car, I look at the score. I'm like didn't even get to see a minute, a second, of this national championship and I'm not going to watch a second of it. 

12:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know I could have TCU punted on the first drive. It was over as soon as they punted. 

12:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I had I actually, so I had Georgia spread and the under in the game. I juiced out. Basically the under lost. I was just following that on my phone. 

12:46 - Zack Phillips (Other)
What number? 

12:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
did you get on the under 63. 0.0? 63 on the nose? Yeah, I didn't see if it was like a bad beat, Like obviously it was what 38-7 at the half. 

12:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Some say the best number in the world pregame on that was under 63 and a half plus 100. It could only have been gotten for one second. Right past new year's a lot of people were sleeping or celebrating or out, but some people may have gotten that number, some people may have 63 and a half, but over cashed anyway. 

13:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I just I don't know why people root for underdogs to each their own. I'm sure there's some logical reason. Everybody has a. Just I want to watch good games. Is that too much to ask for? And that again, that's not to say that tcu georgia couldn't have been a good game in some scenario, but, like the, I want the likelihood of there being a good game. 

13:39 - Zack Phillips (Other)
That's all I ask for I think it's. It's just, uh, it can be sport or league specific, like in the nhl. I think it's like find a route, sport or league specific, like in the NHL. I think it's like Find a route for the underdog to go through, because if they're going through at that point Like in my opinion, I think by the time they get to the finals Like they're rocking. 

13:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The difference is like If you look at an NHL series, but a series is different than a one game. Yeah, I guess Like your biggest favorite in the first round Is like minus 400, right? 

14:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
first round is like minus 400, right? What did this one, what did georgia close on money like just over 400 just over 400 yeah, powers got it 425 in between I think, it closed closer to 500, but in that that move is not that much agreed. 

14:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But like that, that's your biggest discrepancy. Like if you got your best team in the playoffs playing your worst in the nhl. It's like minus 400 series. The finals will never be that. The gap between the teams is is way smaller nba. 

14:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You sometimes get like a minus 1200 first rounder. 

14:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, and I don't care about the seed, whatever, it's just like I want I. For me, the dream is you have your finals in any tournament type of format and the game is a pick them. That's the dream for me, and it comes down to the final, the final drive or something like that. 

14:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't want a super bowl where one team is a pick them. That's the dream for me, and it comes down to the final, the final drive or something like that I don't want a super bowl where one team is a 12 and a half point favorite. 

14:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like I know that it can be close game and the underdog can win, I get it. But like just give me something that's close to be possible. 

14:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Would that happen this year? So let's say seattle plays kansas city on a neutral. On a neutral would be 10?. 

15:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll tell you what my numbers are they probably would be 10. Yeah, so here's the thing. 

15:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Seattle went to KC. 

15:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Seattle went to KC three weeks ago and they closed 10. 

15:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So it's going to be less than 10, especially if they made it to the Super Bowl. 

15:18 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Exactly I always wanted a Stanley Cup Finals Game 7 overtime, double OT, triple OT. 

15:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's happened, game winning it's happened? 

15:27 - Zack Phillips (Other)
No, not in Game 7 of the Cup Finals. 

15:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it's been Game 7 OT. Brett Hull Double OT. Was that Game 6? Game 6. Was that Game 6? Game 6. Foot in the crease. 

15:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Wait. So what are the OT winning goals? Alec Martinez, game five, Patty Kane game six. 

15:46 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, and there's one more, there's more, but like it's just not in game seven, like watching Canada in the OT in the gold medal game like World Juniors, it's like or against the US in the Olympics, like. Those are the moments, because either way the team walks away with the win, whereas a game six, it's still hype, but it's not the same Game seven, ot is. 

16:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The Detroit Red Wings have the distinction of being the only franchise ever to win the Stanley Cup in overtime in game seven. It happened in 1950 and 1954. Those are the only times. 

16:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Who got the G-tubs? 

16:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, now we're going to go into this. Yeah, 1950. 

16:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean, I would probably recognize there's been some Game 7 OTs to get to the Cup Finals. Yeah, yeah. 

16:32 - Zack Phillips (Other)
But never in the Cup Finals. But not in the Cup Finals. That's what I'm like. 

16:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That, to me, is like has there ever been an extra innings be didn't? Didn't that happen with? Uh, when the cub I don't know I'm I'm horrible walking on memory touch them all. Joe, that was game six or seven I couldn't, I can't find it. 

16:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I, I don't remember. I don't. I'm horrible with this like some people absorb the info. When I was young, I used to watch like stump the schwab on espn and that show and I used to remember every I was like very good and I was. 

17:04
I would never have beat that guy, but ever because you have the luxury of watching tv and be like, oh yeah, I would have said that or whatever, but like I had a very good memory when it came to that stuff. Now I can't even remember what I ate for breakfast yesterday. 

17:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's really sad you also only remember a certain era, like I don't know shit about the nhl right now, like currently I don't really know many players and stuff, but if you give me like players from when I was growing up, like you better believe I know, like you know, bobby, whole league. 

17:31 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Oh yeah, so I like that. 1960, bill Mazeroski hit a walk-off home run in game seven of the world series to win it for the Pittsburgh pirates over the New York Yankees. 

17:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Is that the pinnacle of sports that Walk off? 

17:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
home run. Let's go through all the four. Yeah, what is better? 

17:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So actually, nfl's out, because it's not I think NFL honestly, you would have to go for a two-point conversion at zero seconds left, or, I guess, one second left, or you're the kicker and you kick a game-winning field goal no, so okay, what's better? 

18:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
nfl super bowl down so they they score a touchdown. They were down seven. Now they're down one. Go for two for the win or a loss, yeah, so that's option one. Nba ot down two points, game winning buzzer three m mlb down three runs. Bases Juice Two out Two strike. 

18:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Game seven. 

18:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah or NHL. 

18:30 - Zack Phillips (Other)
OT. Well, for me it's biased, it's the NHL one. Like it's Hockey. Like I dreamed Of scoring that goal as a kid. Like that's the goal. Like I think, joe. 

18:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The guys who got the golden goal For the world juniors Are all Did not pan out in the NHL. Matt, how was Chuck Another guy? And then who just scored it? Dylan Gunther, yeah, gunther, maybe he'll be okay. He's pretty sick yeah. 

18:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think with like okay, so NFL? 

18:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
obviously not, Cause it's more of a team contribution right, like you don't know what, mary, what if you run off? 

19:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
to well. Even then, that's even less. I think, okay, but like, because then it's just lucky. You know what I'm saying. Hockey also could be dependent on the goal, like if it's an amazing individual effort and all the spotlight is on that player. That's insane. But like penalty shot, penalty, yeah, penalty ot, penalty shot. Like that's absurd. For me, the baseball walk-off is actually the best, though, because all the spotlight is on that. I mean the nba one, two like a three, oh, like everybody's gonna rush to that player, yeah, but like I, if it was me, I would want to hit the walk-off home run in game seven and slowly trot the basis, knowing you're gonna just get annihilated by your team when you touch it's got to be the greatest feeling ever. 

19:44
I don't think you can beat that. I get shivers like I don't even play baseball. 

19:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I get shivers thinking about being in that situation because when that ball's in the air and you don't know if it's, if it's gone or not, and the one difference too, is like everyone's standing, like it gets so loud because they're watching all, by the way, if these are on the road, no, no, no road game it's got to be home. 

20:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But the difference too is that, like nba okay, you hit that three, you're doing it in front of like 19, 20 000 people. You do it in a baseball stadium. That's like 50 000 people like the play. 

20:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The place is going nuts but either way you're a legend forever in any of these sports, like kawaii's shot, except maybe a two-point conversion. If you're just a scrummy guy who caught that like a tight end or something, you're not going to be. 

20:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What would make it even better. This doesn't happen in sports as much. It happens a lot in college sports but not in professional leagues anymore. Like remember when Joe Carter hit the home run, just the Jays fan was rushing onto the field and rushing onto the field and like that to me is the most electric thing you can see in sports. When the fans now obviously there's security issues with that and they don't allow that anymore they try to stop that. Like these people go to jail, like if you jump over the thing, you're like thanks for coming out. But that's what made it even better. When you watch them back in the day, like the fans celebrating with the players, it's a different, it's a different level, it's just a different we didn't even touch World Cup, we didn't touch soccer. 

21:08
World Cup is amazing as well, but we probably saw what would have been the best, so here's the thing. 

21:14
So for me the yeah, yeah penalty kicks. So 06, Italy won the World Cup. They beat France. In penalty kicks, fabio Grosso scores the winning goal. France in penalty kicks fabio grosso scores the winning goal. But if you remember, what happens in that play is he starts to run and some of the teammates go to him and some of the teammates go in the other direction to the goalie to keep her to before. It's not the same, it's. It's too interspersed. 

21:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That happens in hockey sometimes that just happened with with the argentina too. Like half the guys went to messi, right, and it's like well, yeah, some of the guys fall to the ground like they can't even believe what just happened. 

21:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not I want an mlb, you know, and that'll be like everybody goes to home plate and it's just like, it's just different rather soccer be the golden goal. 

21:56 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I don't know, I think that's just like the hockey and like basketball in me, where it's like that ends it, like I know we got to see some like the one of the most amazing games ever with argentina, france, but like the golden goal to close it off. That's like the pinnacle, like that's it, that ends it, you know hard thumbs. 

22:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I experienced italy lose to france in a euro golden goal fight. Golden goal sucks, man, because the teams don't play offensively when its next goal wins, the mentality tends to be don't give up the next goal, rather than score it. 

22:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Also move NHL to playoff OT away from five on five. 

22:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, that would be electric. How? 

22:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
about this College football? Zach might not even know this call. How about this one? The Statue of Liberty, play you know what I'm talking about. Of course they handed off that Johnson. That Boise State is going to win the Tostitos, yes, the Bulls. You know that. Call Zach. No, oh man, after this podcast, I'm sitting down with you. I'm watching the full highlights from that game. You're going to go nuts Probably one of the greatest games ever. 

23:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
A few weeks ago when we had discussed what would you rather do for a million dollars. We got a lot of good comments on YouTube and it was a pretty interesting debate in the comment section. I'd be very curious for those on YouTube which sport you would want to personally win in, like the pinnacle of that sport. 

23:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think you get a lot of different answers. Let's put a Twitter poll up on this too. We can see what the NHL one. 

23:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It would have to be also like four overtimes, though that makes it even sweeter, like if you just win. You know, in the first overtime two minutes in. It's not the same as like if the game was two games and you're like eating. You just ate a, an entire pizza at the intermission, some pineapple spicy pork. I always find that hilarious by the when you see the games go to like three or four overtimes and there's just a guy waiting outside the dressing room with like 20 pizza boxes in his hand. It's like I got to get the carbs in you or whatever. Yeah, then just drinking straight Gatorade. 

23:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right, I think we have some tweets that trigger us for today as well. 

23:58 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, just go to YouTube, but let us know what, uh what, you would pick as your sport that you'd want to do it in, and what fashion, or you can also let us know what you think is the most hype way to do it. But, uh, yeah, we read all the youtube comments. I can read some of them to you guys as well. Some of the ones from the last one are pretty funny, but two that stand out mike gee 695. I used to do real shady dealings in the casino windsor parking lot 20 years ago you can. 

24:24
You Canadians sure know your ecstasy and techno Only a 10-minute drive through the tunnel or across the mighty Ambassador. That's one of them. 

24:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, the Windsor area is definitely, I mean it's up there for the shady dealings. Definitely some shady dealings. Yes. 

24:44 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, and then the other one, ryan C9888,. The Circles Off Show with Rob Pozzola is brought to you by the Keg Steakhouse and Bar. For great steak. Good friends, see you tonight. See you tonight, 100%. 

24:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, Zach, let's hit it. Tweets that trigger us. 

25:03 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I don't know what we're yelling about. I've never seen you mad. 

25:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I get peeved. Why are you in such a bad mood? 

25:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What do you care? It's only a game. Why do you have to be mad? They handed off that Johnson at Boise State is going to win the Tostitos Fiesta Bowl, that's a great call. Especially because it's Tostitos Fiesta Bowl. 

25:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's so good. 

25:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That call lives on. Tostito's got the money's worth for that sponsorship of that bowl game 100%. 

25:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Do you know who the commentator was? 

25:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
for that? No, but the guy who ruined the guy's proposal after this, Zach, you don't even know what you're in for. 

25:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let me show you this, oh God. 

25:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's the greatest last five minutes of a game and then afterwards the guy who got the winning touchdown proposes to his girlfriend who's the head cheerleader of Boise State, and the commentator ruins it right before he's about to propose Dude it's an unbelievable moment. 

25:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's against. 

25:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oklahoma. Right yeah, it's Adrian Peterson. 

26:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember I was. I was in my early 20s. Let me show zach. I gotta show him after. Okay, we'll show zach afterwards. I there's been some epic calls. I remember back in like when I was growing up. Gus johnson was the best man gus johnson had. He would always somehow get the best games that came down to the wire and absolutely electric calls, electric all right tweets that trigger us. Someone who's not electric anymore in the booth would be tony roe I still like him you're a romo fan I don't know jim. 

26:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't know jim. Okay, I didn't pop out. I don't know jim, that's all he says. 

26:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now, before we get in, when romo came on the scene in the booth, everyone loved him. I still like okay. So the best part about romo is when he came into the booth, he started to do things that no other analyst did, which was call out the exact play that was about to happen. He'd be like jim is audible, or switching to this, or switching to run to the left side, and he was like always right, yeah, and then over time it just got annoying. Now I feel like romo is. He's at the point where he's like it's a mail-in special for him. I don't even think he preps for these games. I honestly don't know. I honestly don't think he does, but he does do that a lot. 

27:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't know, jim, he used to say like. He used to say like, oh, it's a, it's, it's a run, it's a run inside run, and then he'd run it inside and sometimes he'd be like, look, this guy's gonna sneak out here, and then it was it. Like he knew just from playing the game for so long he was giving away the call, like he would. 

27:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He would see a quarterback at the line of scrimmage and and fans were craving that, like because we had, like these color guys like phil sims and like you know, there was I don't want to pick on him, he's the one that comes to mind right away but it was pretty brutal for a long time and Romo came in and started to call it very differently. But now I don't know. You know, I'm telling you, man, troy Aikman, he's come around for me, troy, ever since Dr Eric Eager worked on the sidelines with Troy Aikman now he's good. 

28:08
He sees the game differently. Man, you can say someone from the Hammer Betting Network turned around Troy Aikman's career. 

28:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Gave you guys all the content you need. All right, so here's the tweet here. Go ahead, Rob. 

28:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, so this is from Playmaker Betting. Now, this could have been made in jest, so like I'm not going to say that, you know this is a real tweet by any stretch of the imagination. But the tweet is proceed with caution if Tony Romo and the CBS crew are at the Vikings game. It's like the brr ice cold emoji and it's a history of Vikings games announced by Jim Nance and Tony Romo slash Sims, which is not even like just Tony Romo, by the way, and it's like seven losses. 

28:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And I got him back to 2014, when Romo wasn't even, when he was still on the Cowboys 2014 versus Green Bay Packers. 

28:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know, so like I don't, I understand why this happens a lot in the space. These types of things like get clicks Someone definitely talked about it. 

29:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It would have been great if it was 2014 versus Dallas Cowboys. 

29:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Imagine that was hilarious, and they included the ones of just Romo. At the stadium. There was actually one guy that got roasted so bad in these responses that he actually had deleted the tweet, which I wish was still up there and we had a screenshot of it. But people take this stuff seriously and think it actually matters, and I understand that the content space is like you know. It's driven by generating clicks and so on and so forth, and this tweet actually might be made in jest, in like entirely as just like a joke. It's like a cold face emoji, like it's obviously not meant to be taken seriously, but so many people actually believe this stuff and talk about this stuff like it's a thing. I know firsthand with my inner community of friends that they do this stuff they actually bet it they. 

30:02
They'll be like, oh, have you seen this? Have you seen this team's record in prime time Dating? You know they're like 0-8, their last eight games in prime time. I'd be like, okay, buddy, the first game in this 0-8 prime time was in 1982. What the hell does that matter Like? Why do people take this stuff seriously? 

30:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But if the QB alone was 0-8 in primetime, do you factor that in? 

30:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, so what I would do and this is actually a very good question what I would do is I would look at that. First of all, you have to understand you're dealing with an eight game sample. That doesn't mean that it's meaningless, by the way. A lot of people just dismiss it and they say, oh, the sample size is too small. That does not mean that it's meaningless, but there's. 

30:50
Obviously you can draw conclusions with much less degree of certainty when you deal with small samples of that, but I'd look at the quarterback's performance in those spots relative to other performances and then I would ask myself is there something there specifically with this game? Like, try to develop a hypothesis as to why this might happen in these types of situations. An example Jared Goff, cold weather, right, a lot of people are like, oh, jared Goff can't play in the cold, his numbers suck. Okay, most quarterbacks numbers in the cold are worse than in a dome. Obvious reasons, like you're not affected by the elements, right, but Jared Goff's drop-offs significantly more than an average quarterback. But how many games? We're talking about small samples like 18, 20 games in a lot of cases. That's not insignificant enough, but it's also not something that you can say okay, this is for sure correct. That's one of the challenges with betting on sports, especially the NFL, and it's why there's so many different processes that work for different people, because there's no real answer to whether that's valuable or not. 

32:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So let's say Mike Trout, he's like eight games versus Kevin Gosman. Here we go, batter versus pitcher and he has, like he's like, call it 12 for 24 with eight homers in eight games. Do you factor that in or no? You just ignore that. 

32:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I think that I I personally did not when I would model baseball, I was not using anything batter versus pitcher related. Because you can lump kevin gossman, for example, into a different style. Like you can make that sample bigger by looking at the type of pitcher, how hard he throws, what his secondary pitches are, and you can expand that sample. So now you can say mike trout does this against guys who predominantly throw a splitter as their second pitch or whatever right. Like I always look for ways to expand the sample. Could that-. 

32:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What if it's just he reads that pitcher's mannerisms and pitches a little better? And he's going to be better versus because I always-. 

33:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is the best thing about betting sports, though, is people can draw their own conclusions based off of the data, and maybe there's something to that. 

33:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Maybe there is. When I played hockey we had like there was a goalie on my team that was unreal, one of the best, the best goalie in the league, and in practice I would literally tell him like dude, I'm lighting you up five hole and I would score on him on practice every time five hole. If we had a penalty shootout I'd go fake him. You, they're just. I'm better versus that goalie in shootout than I am versus our other goalie, who was significantly worse. Why? 

33:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it happens, a real thing, it happened for me. I mean, listen, I never played sports at an elite level. I played rep hockey, rep soccer or whatever. But I agree with you that there's always, like, even from a team perspective, like when I played rep hockey there would always be, like you know, the first place team and you'd be like how are these guys in first place? We always play them well, like there's there's certain things that maybe are not. There could be styles, make matchups. 

34:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Right happens in golf with certain courses, for example, right mma, certain guys who just he's not going to beat this guy, but he'll beat every other guy in the division and and honestly there, in my opinion, anyone can disagree that people take hard stances on this stuff, and I'm like people take hard stances in society. 

34:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I talk about this all the time, right, like there's an extreme point of view on everything. For me, develop your process. If it works for you and you're winning over a long-term period of time getting close, then just go with that process, but someone else can believe everything is different and still be able to win, like these are not mutually exclusive events. You might think batter versus pitcher is important in baseball. I might think it's meaningless. We might both model games and still both be able to win. 

34:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I know, I know it's definitely possible. Think it's meaningless. We might both model games and still both be able to win. Yeah, I know, I know it's definitely possible. I'm always thinking like, okay, this one, we put it on tweets, that triggers, because it actually has zero meaning. 

35:00 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Like yes, like legitimately like this. 

35:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The broadcast crew that's coming obviously doesn't matter, but there are no like come on, come on. Well, maybe it does so. No, but if you said, hey, aaron rogers won, like if you said the vikings are 0-8 in their last games where it rained, I would also say that doesn't matter, but I couldn't say that with 100 certainty that that wasn't a fact well, there's no context provided here like this one I could say with 100 certainty okay, but also, like again, there's no context at the game versus them being in a different location. 

35:30
Calling it from it, it doesn't matter if there's a different camera crew, like they don't even know what that is like, they don't. 

35:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You don't hear the commentary, but this is the problem with trends right, like there could be a valuable trend. I'll never just completely dismiss something as like being not valuable, but you have to get additional context right. Like if you say this team is 0 and 10 in their last 10 primetime games and then you go look up the spreads for those games and they were a double digit underdog in every game. Well, is that surprising that they went 0 and 10 in those games? Like there needs to be additional context to a lot of these small sample size things. A lot of people take these oh, this team's 4 and 0 in their last four games when there's a full moon okay, obviously that's nonsense. But like if they're four, no, in the last four games when I don't know the full moon thing though, I don't know. 

36:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, that has more validity than this. 

36:20 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Those are the stats. You get an mlb all the time. How many times you turn on a broadcast and they're like the last time, this first, this team played and it pitched at 1207 and it was exactly this degrees in this ballpark and this guy ate a hot dog. That morning this happened. 

36:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't actually blame the commentators for that, because they're just fed that stuff. They have a list of stuff. I've been in the booth for some games, so they just basically have a list of stuff they can go to with anything, for every single player or whatever right. 

36:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The best one is this. It was like this is the first right-handed quarterback to do all these things and it was because Mike Vick already did it, he was a lefty, that's the funniest one. 

37:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Rest in peace, vin Scully. But for those who used to watch the Dodgers broadcast, my God, did that guy have a great story for every player. He was so easy to listen to. 

37:10 - Zack Phillips (Other)
It's like Gordon Miller, he's got a story for every player. Not the easiness. 

37:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
His luggage, Gord's luggage man went through some stuff. You guys been following that. 

37:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean lots of luggage has been going through some stuff lately in North America. 

37:23 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Gord, sorry to hear about your luggage. Obviously you got to grab a new one there and best of luck. Hopefully it doesn't impact Canada. We should do that when Gordon Miller loses his luggage. 

37:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, trends when the commentator loses their luggage. Canada is undefeated. 

37:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Undefeated If Gordon Miller's luggage has not arrived at the hotel or has been damaged in transit. Canada has won the gold every one of those years when he was traveling. 

37:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, let's move on to the next one. All right, this one comes from brandon shoemaker um, and he's alerting us to a threat that jeff benson is a part of. Jeff benson, who appeared on circles off about a month back, who is the operations manager for circus sportsbook, this a I want to get your overall position on this entire story, johnny. So what we had happen? Obviously, monday Night Football, bengals and Bills extremely unfortunate, with Hamlin getting resuscitated on the field. That game ultimately gets canceled by the NFL. So now we have a lot of situations where sportsbooks are going to have to decide what to do on this game, and the vast majority of the sports books in the world North America, wherever have a house rule that dictates that teams must play 17 games the full season in the NFL in order for futures bets to be payable. Now, depending on the sportsbook, they did things in their entire, you know. However, they wanted to do it. Each sportsbook can apply whatever they want to do in this type of situation. Whatever they want to do in this type of situation. But Jeff Benson, in this tweet, basically says per their house rules, all football games must be played within eight days. They were leaving the bets open. They were going to decide what they were going to do with the bets that were open here until the NFL decided. 

39:25
If you scroll up Zach to Brandon's actual tweet, I'll read it out loud the comments in this thread are insane. Imagine staking real dollars on something and not understanding the rules. Unfortunate situation or not, host rules always apply. Grow up and understand the entirety of your risk before taking a position. Hashtag tweets that trigger us. I got into an argument on Twitter with fellow Hammer betting network content creator, jeffrey Feinberg, friend of mine, and he was in the mentions of Jeff Benson for this one as well. I think this is obviously extenuating circumstances because you have a situation here where the Bills and Bengals already hit their season win total over. 

40:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This is what causes- Regardless of the outcome of that game. Yes, that was canceled. They had both already elipsed enough wins in the bank to hit the over on the win total, so it was a unique situation here. 

40:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would say that for sure. My personal position on this is I hold sportsbooks accountable for their house rules okay, so there are people that got screwed because they their bets rightfully would have won. However, what people fail to realize in every circumstance here is that there's another side to the story and there's people who had the under in this that are getting refunds per the house rules. Okay and like the whole mentality, sports books are in it to make money. I'm not. I am defending a sports book in a sense, and maybe I view this differently because I've consulted for sports books in the past. But if the rules are laid out plain and simple here, this is what needs to happen in order for a wager to be valid. All that I personally ask of the sports book is to just follow the rules that they've laid out. I agree, like that's it, and I understand that there's people upset, but there's people that get a benefit here. There's people who bet under on the bills and the bengals and they get their money back when they would have lost. It's not like the sportsbook is just up and choosing to take everybody's money. That's not what's happening here and again. If this happened 15 years ago pre, you know social media, but also, just like pre, all this bullshit of refunding everybody for everything. This is a non-story because this was the expectation. But now the expectation is very different because of what we've talked about before. Because of what we've talked about before Devin Booker gets hurt, time to refund some bets and people have this false expectation of what should happen. 

42:19
You want to know the sports books I dealt with growing up. I bet at five times growing up. An offshore sports book. Rest in peace, tony. Tony was the guy at five. His real name wasn't even Tony, he just went by Tony. This is the type of sports book customer service I got when I was growing up. Teddy Bridgewater dislocates his kneecap Gruesome injury in training camp. Like people on the Vikings were literally throwing up on the field Bad, bad injury. I'm working at the time. My immediate reaction whether this is, I mean unfortunate for Teddy Bridgewater, good young quarterback right away. I'm like I got to find a spot that still has Minnesota Vikings Season win total up Five dimes Boom, under, boom, under, boom Under again, under, under, under. Just betting under over and over. For how much? 

43:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Whatever, the max was Not that much. 

43:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And, honestly, I'm in my early 20s. I don't know what I had in a five times account, maybe 5,000 bucks. They're sitting in my pending wagers, as they were for a lot of people. This isn't just because obviously there was other people doing the same thing and betting much larger than me, in all likelihood. But Tony starts to make the rounds. Tony starts the guy who's running the operation, not like a regular customer service agent. Tony starts to make the rounds into people's chats and he makes a round into mine. Says hey, what's going on with this Vikings stuff Like quarterback is hurt. I fired on the under, took a shot on the under. Quarterback is hurt. I fired on the under, took a shot on the under. 

44:17
He's like okay, you got two options here. I'll never forget this till the day I die. You have two options here, and this was his standard delivery, not to me, to like everyone. Option number one we can void all these bets and you're welcome to continue betting at five times. Option number two we can void all these bets and you're no longer welcome to bet at five times. That's the customer service that I dealt with when I was growing up, and guess what I would say you know, fuck off. This is not fair, tony. Like what the fuck is this? And he would be like guess what, life ain't fair. Like he would tell me that straight up you don't want to bet here, go somewhere else. But now there's such a competitive environment with all these regulated books all looking for, you know, increase their market share, that everyone is just like going out of their way to do stuff from a marketing perspective and, honestly, just follow the house rules. That's my two cents. You lay out house rules there, just follow them. 

45:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I think there's a one story with Tony that I heard wasn't wasn't my story or anything, but essentially like there were screenshots with the chat, or like yeah, this is this is Tony. And they're like hey, can I, can I talk with the boss, please? Like can I please speak with your manager? And he's like you are talking to the guy running the entire thing. Like what do? Like oh, I've been limited. Like it's not fair. Like my limits are down to 500. And he was like your limits are now down to 50. Do you? 

45:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
want to keep going. The most memorable Tony moment was not with me. It was from Vegas Wager, a long time ago no longer on Twitter as that name, or maybe on Twitter as another name or whatever. I think it was Vegas Wager. My memory again is shot, but this guy kept smashing one side in the Puppy Bowl. The Puppy Bowl this goes on before the Super Bowl. This is a bunch of dogs playing football and the limits at five dimes are like 20 bucks on this event and one guy is just ripping one of the sides over and over and they're moving the line and he's just ripping it and there's like a I wish the dm still existed or like the, the screenshot. But it's like tony popping up into this guy's thing like hey man, what's going on with the puppy bowl, like inside info question or whatever. It's fucking dogs playing a game and that is my one of my favorite. But you know what? 

46:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I look back on it in hindsight and tony has since has passed, but like that guy was a absolute legend he did like he these are actually true he kind of actually treated people fairly, like in a way where it was like, yeah, he void bets if you took advantage, but then like he wasn't gonna scum you on something like this you know what's way better than just being like like, okay, industry-wide I won't even call it an epidemic, but happens a lot is obviously the limiting of sharp players at recreational sportsbooks. 

47:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right, that an epidemic, but happens a lot is obviously the limiting of sharp players at recreational sports books right, that happens, we know it happens a lot. But it's usually like some sort of weirdly worded email that you get. That's just like you know, kind of just like not really explaining anything. Or you don't even get an email. You just go to place a bet one day and it says this is above your limit of whatever. You're in a maximum wager on. This is that at least tony would say to you like dude, you're taking us to the cleaners. Like we don't want your action, your limits are this like I'm. I'd rather they say go play somewhere else, I'd. I respect someone who just tells you to your face like we're not idiots. The person getting limited knows why they're getting limited. Like you don't have to treat them like a complete idiot when you do it, just say hey pull up, pull up plus cv analytics. 

48:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Our good friend matt, uh, his twitter. Look what caesar's trying to do to him. This is all despicable. I mean this one is is I won't shit on caesars until we until, potentially, they rectify the situation. I'm sure they'll write it, but look at this. One same issue uh, oh, he's on visa wow, look at this guy looking sharp, matt. 

48:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, broke out the the nicest pink shirt he has for down, down, down, down, down we don't care about his college basketball power ratings or anything. 

48:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Right here, right here, okay so he had bet a bunch of exact season win totals and if you look at this, this is Cincinnati Bengals win total. So they ended up with exactly 13 wins and it could have been 14 had they won. Am I correct there? 

49:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yep, I think so. 

49:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yep, so it could have been 14 if they. Oh no, sorry, sorry. 

49:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, was it their exact record, did they? 

49:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
go 12?. 

49:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Did they go 12? Did they win 12 or 13? On the record 12 and 4. 

49:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay. So they won 12. So basically, what would have happened is they would have either won 12 or 13. Okay, so what happens is you look at Caesars here House rules are if you don't play 18, they void the whole thing. Matt here had bet 14 exact and 13 exact and if you look what happens, top corner, the 14, which was unattainable, is marked as a loss loser. The 13, which, if they had beat the bills which they were a live favorite to do so, is marked as a void. 

49:51
In this market we can assume what happened is that these guys either voided 13, paid out 12, voided 13, and then marked the rest as losers, or voided both 12 and 13 and marked the rest as losers. But that's not right. The terms are if they don't play 18, then you void all of the bets. So if you have 14 there, that's void, just the same way. If you have 14 there, that's void, just the same way. If you have one win, that's also void. People place the bets in some scenarios taking into account that these are the rules right, like if you place a bet on a player to get to lead the league in passing yards and it says must start week one, and he doesn't start week one, starts week two and then leads the league in passing yards. 

50:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You don't win like that, you have to just be like it's ridiculous so what should happen here by caesar's house rules is that everything should be voided in this market. Every single bet that should be made should be voided in this market by their house rules. Now I can listen, I've listen. I've been like I said, I've said this multiple times before consulted for many, many sports books, including trading teams. I can almost guarantee that this was not malicious and it was just a fuck up. That will be amended. However, the fact that it happens is still not acceptable period, and it shouldn't have to be on the player to contact the sportsbook to get something like this amended. So the software in place for this kind of stuff needs to be better overall, but I would be very, very surprised if it's not amended. It just. 

51:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It just sucks that you have to go through that process now but it's like are they even gonna like they gotta avoid this and then readjust them for every single person like this? Of course, sometimes it's ridiculous like the um, the amount and I know there's technology constraints and I'm not trying to get mad. If something is is if there's a mistake. But this wasn't a mistake, like they put. They graded this as a certain thing that was against their house rules. 

51:48
It's like you gotta, you gotta go by the house rules. Or if you want to go more favorable, to do a gift to people like the devon booker refund, and you want to say, hey, we're voiding everything, but since the bengals have already gone over, we're gonna pay that out, but we're still voiding, you're under, that's acceptable. You're now doing them a favor and it's like, okay, fine, do that if you not obligated to. But in no scenario can you just now change the rules and say, yeah, since the Bengals were already over their win total, we're gonna just pay out the over and not pay out the under. 

52:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For me, what it comes down to is I expect fairness from every sports book. We did an episode probably a long time ago, prior to us being on YouTube, when we were just on podcast format and, by the way, you can get Circles Off in podcast form on Spotify or Apple Music as well. We did an episode where we talked about Apple Podcasts, apple Podcasts the importance of reading the house rules and being able to find edges within the house rules. 

52:46
Lots of times some sports books are different from one another and I don't want to say you can game the system, but you can find edges in house rules and I expect the sportsbook to honor their house rules. That's my one expectation as a bettor. So if I'm going to go bet a season-long win, total or future, I'm going to do so probably at sportsbook. If I'm going to bet an over, for example, I'm going to look at a sports book that maybe does not have a rule that needs to go 17 games or whatever. You know what I'm saying like you're gonna, you're gonna use the house probably the other way around other way under. 

53:24
But that's what I'm saying. Like you can bet at different books, you can do different things and bet in the best place possible for one. Now back to the issue at hand. Where I got into an argument with Jeff Feinberg was he was saying Circa needs to make this right for their players. Okay, like there's going to be people that had the expectation of winning a bet that are no longer going to win the bet. Give the guys a credit, a credit, a free, free bet or something like that. And to my answer is circa, like pinnacle sharper sports book, tend to take bigger bets than other books. 

54:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Imagine for bonuses. 

54:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Imagine I played a $5,000 bet at circa on the bills season win total over. And they came back to me and said hey, Rob, according to our house rules, I'm going to have to void this bet, but here's what we're going to do for you. We're going to give you $100 free bet. I would be more mad at that than I would if they just canceled the bet. I'm not exaggerating. I would literally be more upset if they did something like that than if they just canceled the bet I know you and I know you actually would be more upset but. 

54:38
But like I don't know if you would be, but like that, that's that I would be like okay yeah, like I'm, I would obviously wouldn't be more upset. 

54:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'd be, I would still be upset, but I'd be like, okay, sure, at least I got a couple bucks that, to me, is the ultimate spit in the face I I know that someone just spitting directly in your. 

54:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That would be the end of my relationship with that sports book period. So you got to do things based off your clientele as well, right? It's different, for example, if I'm going to a more recreational book and they only gave me $200 on that future and they said hey, rob, you know what our house rules dictate, that this is going to be canceled, but we will give you $200 in bet credits. You need to roll it over x amount of time. I'd be like, okay, you know what. That's somewhat fair. I can live with that. 

55:26
But each individual sports book is going to make a decision. That's right for them, and for, like Circa to just be doing stuff like that doesn't really resonate with their clientele, in my opinion. But regardless, it doesn't matter to me. It's all I ask for and, in my opinion, all any better should really ask for is that the rules are applied to every person in the same way. That's it. You know what you're betting, you know when you win a bet and if you found like a technicality in the house rules where you can exploit that, exploit that and you go and hit it, the sportsbook honors it and pays it out because it's within the rules. That's all I ask for now. The 17-game rule a little bit archaic and prehistoric. 

56:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Honestly, not really, because during the last couple of years that did come into play when they were cancelling games. 

56:22
They cancelled games, obviously, and then it was just like you needed to have something in play where it's like hey, you can't bet a season win total and then expect that there would be no way you could ever play an over then because there was a chance, a legit chance, that they're just like yeah, well, it was a 60-game season, but now we're going to do it as a 48-game season because too many games got canceled, so we're just going to keep playing it. There were scenarios where the books had outlined like okay, instead of doing win totals, we're doing win percentages, right you? 

56:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
know I mean listen, there's this, we'll. We'll end this one in a second. But if I were managing a sports book and this happened, I would apply the house rules first and foremost. I'd let everyone who knew that was affected by this bet that we're applying the house rules. We're probably going to lose some business because of people who are going to be upset, but guess what? They're probably going to go to another sports book and have a shitty experience. They'll be back in the future is what I would tell my team. But I would re-examine the house rules and I would say there's no reason for when an NFL future any future happens as soon as that hits. It should just be paid out. In my opinion, the over should be settled as soon as it goes and the under should be marked as a loss and that's it, like there's no like I get it. 

57:42 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So you're saying you bet Tom Brady over 30 and a half touchdown passes. If he gets to 32 and doesn't play three games, you should still pay it out. Yes, I think that's fair, but it's got to be in the terms Agreed. 

57:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I would just do a. I would reevaluate my terms as a sports book and say guys, you know what team, guys, gals, whatever. This doesn't really make a whole lot of sense anymore. It's going to lead to a lot of problems down the road. We're just going to pay out the future. As soon as the over hits, overs will be graded as a win. Unders will be graded as a loss. 

58:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, also, I got a beef to pick here with the sports books. When a bet grades, pay the guy the money right away. Why are you holding onto that for three, four hours, Like you're just losing yourself money because that guy now doesn't have the money in his account. Like if a couple books do this really good and some are behind the times. What I mean by this is like if you have the over in the bills game 46 and a half, as soon as they score that extra point to put it up to that total, that's half a point over. Pay, return the money in the account right there. Because what happens now is that return the money in the account right there. Because what happens now is that guy has money in his account and he has a chance to bet more and potentially have more action at your sportsbook. Increase your total, handle whatever you want or trying to get from it, but like by not paying that out until like end of games or sometimes like an hour after the game. 

59:05
It's like I know the majority of people I know who bet recreationally will have $100 in their account or $200 in their account and by 1 pm kickoff on Sunday. All of that money is in play, Meaning if they win a bet now, they might have 30 bucks in their account. They can fire on a live bet, Otherwise they're not winning. And if you don't pay that out by the four o'clock games they had a shitty experience because they could now not bet the four o'clock games. They had a shitty experience because they could now not bet the four o'clock games. It's like pay it all right away. Serious, easy, easy hack. It's gonna make extra money for the sportsbook and give the players a better player experience agreed. 

59:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Final one oh boy, did I have to hit the mute button a lot this week. I tweeted I love scott hansen, he does, he really. I tweeted I love Scott Hanson, he does. He really does a great job. But the lack of gambling knowledge really hurts in situations like this. I'll explain the situation. That final play in Miami deserved more coverage. 

01:00:02
I watch Red Zone every week. Love Red Zone. I used to run my own Red Zone back in the day. You know what I mean. All my friends used to come over Manual Red Zone Laptop in front of me. It was at the time cbs sports line I was. I was the guy that memorized every channel flipping to every game, knew when a touchdown would happen, knew when a team was in the red zone. Love that, I love red zone as a product. Scott hansen mixed reaction feelings on him. Overall I think he does a great job. I don't know how hard people realize his job is and having to react to all this stuff in real time, but he is not a gambler. He does cater to the fantasy audience a lot of times and he'll say that doesn't know anything in relating to gambling. So I tweeted that. 

01:00:57
The final play of the Miami-New York Jets game this past weekend, where Miami was a three and a half point favorite, looked to be a safety on the field which would have taken Miami from a 9-6 final to an 11-6 final. One of the refs on the field, which would have taken Miami from a 9-6 final To an 11-6 final. One of the refs on the field Signals safety. Another ref makes an announcement Saying like the pass is incomplete. Game is over. The final broadcast shows 9-6. They immediately cut away from this. They go to the Steelers 30 seconds left in the game, beating the Browns 28-14. The Steelers are now officially eliminated from the playoffs by this Dolphins win. They cut to show us the end of this game and everyone who bet the Jets and Dolphins game is mad, scrambling to try to figure out what the hell is going on. And my only point was well, the reason why? 

01:01:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
it was because the Jets closes three and a half point dogs, meaning if they got the safety, you lose your bet, if they got safety, you win, and vice versa. 

01:02:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you had Miami, exactly, and massive, massive play, of course. And I'm just saying, when you run a broadcast like that, when you run red zone, cater to your audience and there, of course, are going to be a minority of people that watch red zone, that don't bet and don't play fantasy, and I think that's an extreme. No, there's very few people, minority, extreme minority. But you can explain the situation and why it's important and you say you know, guys, we're going to stick here for 30 seconds to figure out what happened on this last play. The closing spread in this game was three and a half. There could be a lot of money changing hands right now. We want to get to the bottom of this Rather than to throw to the Steelers closing out a game that has no more impact on the spread, no more real impact on fantasy for the most part, and no impact on the playoffs. 

01:02:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This is my point. But if the Steelers were like driving for a game-winning field goal to put them in the playoffs, then you like, you got to switch that obviously. 

01:03:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You got to play the situation and, honestly, scott Hanson, I think there's a big production crew associated with this and you hear Scott on a weekly basis of like, hey guys, guys, let's go to this game. Hey guys, let's switch back here. Guys, don't leave this game. Don't do that Like he's dictating a lot of what's happening there and in a perfect world, it would just be the production team that's perfect at their jobs and they know which game to go to at every time and he doesn't have to do that. That's obviously not the case and he does that. But in my opinion, you cater to your audience and that's all I was saying is not ripping on scott hansen. It was just like god. This is a huge play. This is one of the most heavily bet games of the entire week, a game where there's playoff implications. The closing spreads three and a half. The final play of the game affected the closing affected. Who's going to win the cover? 

01:03:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
of the point spread. Well, there's nine games at 1 pm and only four of them were actually like bettable, where the teams actually had something to play for. Yes, so limits were higher on that game versus the other games, for example, A large portion of the audience wants to know what's happened there. 

01:04:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I get quote tweeted by Victoria saying gambling people are so disconnected from reality that they think they're undeserved underserved, excuse me, in sports media. Crying face, three crying face emojis. That was especially the triggering point. I'll tell you right now the comments were very mixed. She then I then quote tweeted people are so disconnected from reality that they think the nfl could actually exist without gambling. Three crying face emojis to match. 

01:04:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You. Got to the crying faces. Got to you, buddy. Okay, because you use those back I had to. 

01:04:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I had to google like crying face emoji and copy yeah, so I actually did a google search to get it, um, and then she responded saying my addiction is justified because it helps fund a sport by billionaires. Ain't the flex that you think it is big man? Okay, big chief. So, um, I've had to take a step back from this and ask myself, because we're in the in the betting space, do we think that there are more people that actually bet on this than don't? Then I started doing some industry research in recent years and I stand by my statement. 

01:05:38
Okay, and the issue and if you go through this entire thread, zach can post it in the description of the video there's some people that side with me. There's some people that don't, a lot of people that don't think that sports betting started in 2018 with the regulation of that, and they're like, oh, how did the NFL survive up until 2018? And it's like do you think people didn't bet on the NFL prior to and do you think that fantasy sports is not driving this? And, by the way, like there was one guy that responded to me like, oh, I play fantasy sports is not driving this. And, by the way, like there was one guy that responded to me like, oh, I play fantasy sports for free. In my office it's like guess what, buddy, you're part of the 1%. 

01:06:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Wait, but that's still fantasy. 

01:06:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's still watching for fantasy sports, but he's saying I'm like, fantasy sports, in my opinion, is just another form of gambling. People are not doing this for like the love of fantasy sports. 

01:06:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
They're doing it because they want to win, bro, like there's no one that watches nfl okay, sorry, how? 

01:06:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
about this minority. 

01:06:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't want to see no one I'll go, I'll even go and so rattled I'm dropping the espresso, okay so if you include, if you include regular betting, okay, survivor pools, pick them pools, office pools, stuff like that, daily fantasy, regular fantasy and just like betting amongst buddies, right. So if you take out all those and you say someone is watching a game just because they love that team, I would say that's a small percentage. Definitely up below 25 percent of people are in that scenario, okay. However, to rob's point, which hasn't been made yet, that would be for regular nfl games to watch their favorite team. If you bring that over to red zone, that's less than one percent, less than one percent of people watching. 

01:07:18
And I know it seems extreme, but actually think of it. How many people watching red zone just the touchdowns and scores do not have any of those things I mentioned on the line. I agree with you, man, I, I. But like you're a diehard vikings fan. Your dad was a fan, your grandfather was a fan. You love the vikings, you watch every single game at the fight. You watch the vikings and you just happen to not bet. Fine, but you're not watching red zone, watching the vikes game, where I brew and a burger where I will back. 

01:07:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So here I will backpedal a little bit. Okay, on the and zach, if you go up to my tweet maybe. Maybe this was worded poorly and the NFL like actually exists without sports betting, but it is nowhere, absolutely nowhere close to the same level. That like it just becomes a league afterwards and there's nothing stopping like another football league from even being bigger than it. Like, if you not bet on the nfl or play fantasy sports but you could bet on the cfl and play fantasy cfl, the cfl would be bigger than the nfl I actually agree with that. 

01:08:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's my point here. It's actually crazy because we, you people would be like no, you're delusional, are you kidding me? It's the nfl. But it's like actually, if like, maybe not first year, but as time progressed, if you could not bet or have any of those things I mentioned no pools, survivors, pickums, people would then have to just switch over and like a different thing I just know. 

01:08:41 - Zack Phillips (Other)
this one sent raw the. 

01:08:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
NFL did not exist before 2018. So, true bestie, like it's like, oh yeah, gambling didn't just created do people realize how much money was bet in the offshore like illegal betting? 

01:08:56 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
handle illegal betting handle in california. That's it. It's all you need to know. There's no oh, so betting doesn't exist in california or florida or texas, so they don't bet on texas a&m games. 

01:09:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
These types of things send me into orbit, because you're now dealing with a population that's going to be exposed to this tweet, that has no fucking clue about betting. And this is what really gets me, because now you're just arguing against people who are completely not qualified to talk about this. You know like how many times did people respond to this thread, calling me a degenerate? Or like you're addicted to bet. 

01:09:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm not addicted to betting. They may be right on both of those. However, Johnny changed the point. 

01:09:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If I didn't win money betting I could stop tomorrow. And you know what would happen I would stop. I would not watch nearly as much NFL as I do. Why do you think I watch every primetime game and every single Sunday? It's not for the love of the sport, it's for the love of making money. Okay, that's why why are people-. 

01:09:59 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, no, no, bro, we are both degenerates. We would still bet if we didn't like. We would just bet on another thing. Yes, we're both wired. Like I would just bet me and you would just bet, but it's a means to it, but it's a means to an income for me. 

01:10:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like it's not, I don't, I don't, I guys. Like I actually don't need to bet. I bet because I make money betting and like why would I not do that? But like if I was losing all the time, I personally and I don't speak for everyone, there's people out there that are addicted, don't get me wrong. Like there's people out there that this is a problem. This is why we do stuff on responsible gaming. Like it matters, it's important to me, I get that, but like I don't need to bet. 

01:10:43
If I'm losing money year after year, I can easily just stop and say this is not worthwhile to me. And I will put on a sporting event every now and then, but I'll tell you this it's going to drive down my engagement for every single sport, especially the NFL. Look at these Thursday night games. I'm watching this year the fucking Denver Broncos 12 to 9 final score against the Indianapolis the worst fucking game imaginable and I'm glued to my seat watching that because I bet the side. I bet the second half total. Look at georgia tcu on monday night. Who is watching that game straight through the end? I'll tell you the total was 63 in that game. It came down to the wire. Every single person that's not a georgia fan, that's watching that to the end has something in play on the total in that game. Don't even try to tell me that the engagement on that game, the ratings on that game, are anywhere fucking close to what that is without sports bet like this is the most like. 

01:11:48
Again, I'm involved in the betting space. I get it. We promote sports books, I get it. There's people out there that see all these sports book commercials and they're like, oh, betting is ruining everything, as if they weren't gonna complain about the other commercials that are on TV. I used to watch beer commercials at every single commercial break of the NFL and I'd sit there and be like, not this fucking commercial again. Like, and I get it, people are upset Because it's all betting commercials. Now Deal with it. Like you were upset about the other commercials Prior to betting. Now you just moved on and this is this is what is driving engagement in sports. The leagues know this, like the NFL knows this. So my entire point Was you are doing an NFL red zone broadcast. Cater to your audience. That's all I'm saying. Just cater to this is media 101. Like this is a hundred. Like everyone in the media is catering to their audience. This is the goal Drive engagement. 

01:12:54
And if I have to flip away from Red Zone to go to the end of the Dolphins-Jets game because nobody has any fucking clue what's going on, that's hurting their viewership and their engagement. Do you think the people at Red Zone want that to happen? They absolutely do not, and I can't even believe the arguments I'm getting into with people. I got to a point where I'm just muting everyone, because what's the point of just yelling into the air? You're a degenerate. You don't know about this. Oh, of course. What happened prior to 2018? 

01:13:23
So on, as if gambling didn't exist forever. Like, people have been betting on this league forever, literally forever. So enough of the stupidity. Like, no one's watching these Thursday night football games if they don't have a fantasy player involved or they don't bet a prop or the game side in total. Like what do you think the viewership looks like if that doesn't exist? Please? Like, pull your head out of your fucking ass. Seriously, it's so dumb. This argument is so dumb. That's it. 

01:13:55
I've said my piece it. You see, it's tweets that trigger me for a reason. Obviously, I'm very triggered by this. It is so dumb. You know you want to watch. You want to watch the standalone game on four o'clock. You're probably doing that because it's your favorite team or like that's how you consumed football forever. My dad, for example, my dad's not watching red zone on Sunday, doesn't bet on the games, he doesn't play fantasy football. He wants to see his team play or he wants to see the national broadcast and like he wants to watch a game start to finish. Okay, there's people that exist like that. I'm not suggesting that they don't. That is the minority of people that are consuming this product, the vast minority. Like honestly, put a number, a percentage, on the viewership of the nfl that is betting or playing fantasy. How can you not say it's like three quarters of the audience? 

01:14:58
I've said my piece. I can't, I don't even believe there. Like it's honestly unfathomable to me that there's people that take this hard of a stance on it. Like it's a form of delusion. And again I tried to remove myself from the situation and say you know what? I bet on sports for a living. I host sports betting content. I co-own some sports betting companies. Maybe I have the blinders on and all it takes is probably five Google searches to really quickly tell you that I even underestimated the amount of people. 

01:15:39
2022, almost one of five adults in America placed a bet. Of the entire American population, basically, 20% of them placed a bet. Okay, it's massive. It is a massive amount of people that bet on sports. It's not hard to see. There's tons of industry research out there. There's industry research predating 2018 in the illegal gambling market. Why do you think all of these states and provinces across North America want to regulate? Because there's so much money that they're not making in tax revenue that's going to illegal betting markets Like grow. You know, I put it in a tweet grow a brain, grow a brain. Just like the info is out there. Do your own research. The info is out there. Do your own research. 

01:16:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
To be fair, obviously you're triggered, as I would be, but I would bet if you click this girl's profile then she complains about every single thing under the sun and all the hot political issues. 

01:16:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't want to make judgments. 

01:16:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, no, no no, it is, it is. We'll say it as it is. 

01:16:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I honestly I'll say this for real I didn't click and go through this entire profile because I don't care about this person. 

01:16:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Go up, go up. What's that? What's that? Up one more up, one more up, one more up, one more. 

01:17:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Short tyrants. Some of the most disturbing, annoying people Are short. Okay, of course, isaiah McKenzie, I don't, I don't, okay. It doesn't matter to me who the person is making the argument. This is dead serious. I'm not playing like liberal side of things. I don't care about the person making the argument. It doesn't matter to me, it's the argument itself and what infuriates me the most. I could get over this very quickly, but as soon as I got people coming into my mentions that call me, that say I have, like, a gambling addiction, it's like I had a gambling addiction at one point. I know what that looks like. I absolutely do not have a gambling addiction and I take offense to that. And I take offense to the notion that every single person who bets on sports has an addiction. Like there's lots of people who are just betting it for entertainment, like it's their entertainment money. It is not addictive. 

01:17:58 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, it's like you're gonna pay to go see a movie. 

01:18:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Pay to play man. 

01:18:04 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Holy fuck, it's Also by the way, I just got a message from someone in the office and they said all I can hear is yelling. Are they yelling at you? Are you okay? 

01:18:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We got it. We got to soundproof these walls a little bit more. I it was. Is this a super frustrating call? 

01:18:20
And the thing is like I appreciate everyone who comes to my defense. Like that doesn't go unnoticed in the space and I think everyone's entitled to their opinion on something. But when I share my opinion and I don't believe that I'm qualified or an expert in the space, I usually make it known to people. You know, like I've been in the sports betting space for a long time. I know I've been in the sports media space for a long time. Does that immediately qualify me as an expert? No, there's like touts that have been in the space for a long time. You wouldn't consider them an expert or whatever. 

01:18:56
But like I'm not going and seeking out other people's tweets on like you know what fucking pillows to buy and whatever, and saying, oh no, you got to get this pillow because of the firmness and whatever. Like no, if I don't know about something, I'm going to let it go, and I have so many people in this thread that don't have a freaking clue about anything related to this. It's very evident in the comments and they just double down and triple down and it's just like, okay, this is nauseating me. Mute, mute, mute, mute. So that's where I'm at right now. I actually don't mind events. Like I know. I'm very upset and triggered by this, but it's a good way to get this negativity out of my life as well. When I can go on these like 300 person muting sprees, it does make me feel better. 

01:19:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Some other news before we close off the podcast. Here I saw tweet from uh like a card collectibles uh account that was retweeted on my timeline and it said uh, I think you're having a bad day. Somebody bought this derrick car rookie patch auto for 500k and it was lit. It was literally vegas dave holding up the card guy. The guy the collectibles account didn't even know who it was. They just they just put it up. 

01:20:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was vegas dave, vegas man prime real estate at the cabo airport, vegas dave. That's what you see when you get on the off the planes at cabo. Big ass. Picture of vegas dave all right. 

01:20:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, we'll close off there. This has been episode 84 of circles off. Uh, if you have some time, just message rob, see if he's okay. And uh, we will see you all next week for episode otro cinco.