00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off. We're doing a Super Bowl 57 recap. How did myself and Johnny fare on the Super Bowl? What were our biggest wins, Our biggest losses, Any bets that we would take back If we could? We'll cover that and a variety of topics from the gaming space this week. All that and more on Circles Off, episode number 89. 

00:19 - Regards from Italy (Caller)
Come on, let's go. 

00:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Welcome to Circles Off, episode number 89. Here is part of the Hammer Betting Network Rob Pizzola, joined by Johnny from Betstamp 89, my guy Kadarius, tony, on his old team. 

00:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yes, kanish. 

00:36 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Darius Tony. 

00:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Kanish Darius Tony. 

00:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Kanish. Darius. Tony Kanish took a big L on Kadarius. Tony Hitman took a big L as well. I tailed that one and then played back on me under. I set myself up with a middle on Kadarius. 

00:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He did get the touchdown if you bet the anytime touchdown he got the tutter. 

00:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's a lot of 89 is like a huge tight end number in the NFL, but like not. Mark Andrews is the good tight end and then the rest of them are like Mercedes Lewis. 

01:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Mercedes Lewis is a legend. 

01:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Tyler Higbee, jared Cook, drew Sample, donald Parham Parham Parham, brock Wright, but obviously in the NHL. 

01:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Alex McGillney. 

01:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
McGillney Leafs legend. Alex McGillney. Yes, sam Gagne, steve Smith, actually in the day we get in trouble for not like saying people, I think like we get tweeted, like the comments, how could you forget about this guy? Or whatever I'm like, I'm not gonna name every single player about the doing it. 

01:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
People are like oh, like, we're doing 88. And then there's a guy like, yeah, marvin harrison, marvin harrison, yeah, why aren't they saying marvin harrison, of course? 

01:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
why aren't they saying mike comry 89, it's like I'm never gonna meet. You did where did he? Yeah, yeah, former uh, he's still married to hillary duff, I think so. I think that that that was it. I mean, I'm trying to think of, like active player buchnevich, where's 89 barkley goodrow? 

02:00 - Zack Phillips (Other)
no, he likes it, but he's from aurora, so yeah, shout out sparkly. Good, right, that's super bowl recap. 

02:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
First and foremost, rob show, formerly our show. Rob did it this year. I was uh away on biz. Maybe we'll do it again here next year, who knows? Sure, but first year, last season, if you tailed every pick that was a dub. This year, if you tailed every pick that was a dub this year, if you tailed every pick. 

02:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
another dub, another dub and I actually counted it fairly. So 3% ROI if you tailed every pick from the 23 guests and myself. I included Spanky's heads at plus 100, which was like kind of a joke pick, but he gave it out and honestly I felt bad saying this in the recap video that I did on Forward Progress. But for most people betting heads at plus 100 is actually the best ev play they would have made in the super bowl I? 

02:52 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I you're probably right, especially when I saw some of the bets that came in that were sent to me every super bowl morning. I would say I'd have to count how many messages I get, but it's usually between like 30 to 50 for the past couple years like, hey, what bonuses you got, what, uh, what stuff's going on? What am I betting today? Who do you like? Chiefs, eagles, whatever? I'm sure you get the same super bowl morning. A lot of people the amount of bets that came across in the text on there were hilarious. Like someone was like send me a bet, is this a good bet? It was team to win the opening. Like team to win the coin toss wins the game at minus 120, which is literally. If you have plus 100, then I guess that could be considered an edge. That's break even at plus 100, exactly. And, um, that's like even worse than the coin toss at minus 10. Well, listen, I mean, if you're betting the coin toss at minus 10. 

03:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, listen, I mean, if you're betting the coin toss at even money plus 100, it's zero EV bet, like it's fair odds. It's the exact fair odds. Most people you get together with for the Super Bowl, a lot of them haven't even placed a bet yet. So it's like an hour till game time and they're trying to fire off bets. They're gonna bet minus 110, minus 150. They're they're gonna bet minus 110, minus 150. They're betting into these markets with like five percent hold. You're better off actually betting, betting the coin toss. I say that in all seriousness. I was telling people that, like people that my friends who want to get in a bet, I'm like pick heads or tails at plus 100 plus 100. 

04:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
by the way, I had a bet on tails at plus 101. Did I send you a screenshot? No, 680 bucks great, that's plus 101. 

04:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a great bet. 

04:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Cash it not because it won, because, well, not a great bet, a couple bucks in ev a couple bucks in ev um what I was going to say actually, I saw this earlier. One of the sports books um, in here in ontario, big sports book bet mgm, was uh getting some slack on twitter for offering the coin toss at. Was it minus 15? Minus 115, both sides Minus 115 a side. All right, I want to come in actually in defense of the sportsbook in this situation. Here's what I got Okay. 

04:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll let you say your piece and then I'll say my piece on this as well. 

04:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
All right. Most sportsbooks will offer the coin toss at minus 110. That's the standard currently, meaning they're going to make 4.55% for every $100. That's wagered, regardless if they split action. There are some sports books, aka DraftKings, which was offering plus 100 per side. They said you know what? We're going to use this probably as a customer acquisition technique. You can come in here. You want to bet the coin flip, zero EV. You're like negative, no negative, no positive. Come here, go ahead and bet it. 

05:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Some books Sorry, even just to interrupt you Some books actually boosted the odds on the coin toss one way or another. 

05:36 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So plus 100 for, if you want, tails was plus 135 on heads for a promo bet. For promo bets yes exactly of course I'm not even talking promo bets. 

05:46
I'm not talking like the ones where you can only get 50 bucks down. Obviously those bets you're you're just going to take. It's the same mistake in the promos I'm talking here, actual limit bets, where you can actually go ahead and and bang a good pop, obviously if your account's not restricted. What I'm going to come in defense of is if anybody is out there who is going to bet the coin toss at minus 110, which is something that you could clearly, and everyone in the world can clearly, quantify and identify is a 50, 50 shot. If you're going to bet that at minus 110, then you are certainly betting that also at minus 150. If that's the only sports book you had meaning, if you're a customer and you want to bet it, I may have even gone the other way if I was on the other end of the table. If I was in their shoes, I might go coin toss minus 150 per side. Minus 150, minus 150. 

06:35
The amount of people that are going to bet that at minus 110, it's already such bad value that that that person has already told you. I do not give a about the odds, I'm just betting this. You might as well just take more from them. And if you're gonna go ahead and do that, go max it and take whatever limits you want and enjoy and let people bet. So I'm no, I'm not an advocate in saying like, juice the guys and make sure you take more of the customer. But all in, if you're not gonna offer it at like plus 100, plus 100 as a promo, yeah, I wouldn't even offer it at minus 110, I'd go, I'd go deeper, I'd go minus 30 or something like that so a lot of the the complaints about that, the minus 115 I've been bet mgm or that it's predatory, right like that's. 

07:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
A lot of people say, oh, it's predatory and this and that minus 110 is predatory. 

07:19
any, any betting, then, is kind of predatory in a sense right, like you're offering people what you deem like the house thinks they have an advantage with the VIG. The whole thing for me is that I don't deem it as predatory, because there's actually so many other options in market. Like it's one thing if every single shop is offering minus 115 and that's like the industry standard, and then we can say, okay, like this is getting ridiculous at this point. And then, and that's like the industry standard, and then we can say, okay, like this is getting ridiculous at this point, and that won't happen because it's such a competitive market now that you do see the, the, the, the promos and stuff like that. You do see the plus 100, both sides. So, honestly, I disagree with that. 

07:57
Sportsbooks are in it to make money. Part of that is taking advantage of the player base. Now, you know, if I was running my book, I'm I'm not doing it in a way where you know I'm trying to inflict lifelong problems on people. That's, I think, totally out of line. It does happen with vip programs and whatever it's in the interest of winning money. The issue that I had with the bet mgm one, though, which made me made me laugh is they were capping bets at like 250 bucks. I think that was just already a restricted account. It might've been, but it's still funny, like even if an account is restricted right? 

08:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I know, that's just. That's part of the issue. It's like when you're restricting accounts, you're literally going to restrict the guy also on the coin toss. 

08:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's making the word like the only if that's a restricted account, and it's restricted because that person is identified as a long-term winner and he's finally wants to bet into a market where he doesn't have an edge. And you limit them to 250, I find that hilarious. 

08:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But that is actually funny, especially because, like, that's a certified quantifiable negative 5% edge Yep. 

09:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I listen. For me, it's an open market, like sports books can operate however they want, and the ones who operate in the ways that I think are more conducive to the vast majority of players will be the ones that sustain success in the long run, and that's why we actively preach Pinnacle here. On Circles Off, I went through the entire board on the pizza buffet on Sunday. I'll talk about a horrible bet. No, not a horrible bet I made. I'll talk about a horrible bet I made. No, not a horrible bet I made. I'll retract a great bet that had a horrible result, but I did that at Pinnacle Sportsbook. Pinnacle, the world's sharpest sports book available to bettors in Ontario. Find out what pro bettors have known for decades Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19 plus, not available to those in the United States. But uh, yeah, what was the coin toss odds at Pinnacle Minus 102. 

09:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair, At least you're not. If you want to make a fun bet, at least you're not getting too jammed out right and at the end of the day, like if you're going to bet the coin toss at minus 115 at BetMGM and you're too lazy to go open an account at any of the other sports books or fund an account at any of the other sports books or funding account any of those sports books you deserve to just get that minus 50. 

10:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I agree, I made bad bets on the coin toss before. I was a very recreational better for the large portion of my life for as laying minus 110 every year on the coin toss just because I wanted to sweat a fun bet with my friends, and at that time there were no other options really. Like you know, I was a Canadian betting PPH accounts but like to deposit into an offshore. In those days the banks would block the transactions. I couldn't even get money in if I tried, so I was just like forced to do that in some capacity. I think that's that's not right. I guess in the in the spirit of sports book. But now there's so many options, like there's tons of options. We're lucky to be in Ontario where we have 30 plus sportsbook operators. In the US, depending on your state, you probably have at least a handful, and if you're getting minus 115 on a coin toss, then it takes two seconds to go somewhere else and make a deposit where you're getting plus 100, for example, even money bet. 

11:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, exactly exactly. But other than that, how? 

11:06 - Zack Phillips (Other)
was your Super Bowl. I quickly want to give a shout out to the sneakiest moment of the entire stream that we did. 

11:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay. 

11:15 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Remember Rob diamonds, last forever Diamonds last forever. 

11:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, that was Spanky, my first guest who listen. I told Spanky this beforehand. I'm not having him on for his football expertise. Right, want to bring in an audience? 

11:30
to start to get to get the things going, get a little bit excited. I did, I. I remember vividly hearing him say that Same Cause he, I believe he said diamonds last forever and so does Spank odds. And I was like, oh okay, yeah, that's great, like I didn't process it in real time. But there was a hidden message in there. Diamonds, last super bowl, diamonds, last song of the halftime show, which at that time was available at 10 to 1 in market, 9 to-1 in market, then got bet pretty heavily one way. But even Spanky came through. I didn't count that towards the record, not counting hidden messages towards the record. Could have bet Diamond's last song. He could have bet Diamond's last song. Remember Rob Diamond's last reference to Spank? It's at Rob Pizzola with the Diamond. 

12:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What did you think on the dress? Rihanna's dress fiasco. 

12:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I mean, I think it was a red dress. 

12:28 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah. 

12:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think it was a red dress. I can understand, like the TV colors and whatever it depends on which TV you're watching, but it's pretty clear with the images of like her walking into the stadium that it was a red dress. So you can't grade two dress colors as the winner. It's either red or it's pink, it's not both. 

12:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It is what it is. It was red. I mean listen I liked Captain Jack's joke after with the Gatorade color. Oh, that was funny I did laugh. 

12:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, listen, I think a lot of what Captain Jack was doing over the course of that day was prodding, so to speak, at other people with the comments, like I think he very much knew that the dress was red, but he was trying to keep it going, which I actually found a little bit amusing, because most people didn't catch that sarcasm, they just thought it was all real and he really thought everything that he was saying. But Super Bowl went pretty well for me. 

13:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
My pick on the stream was a winner Boom Me and you. 

13:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We saved the stream man and Was a winner. Boom, me and you. We saved the stream man and Luke and lay it with Luke, who we had in studio here last year. The three winners at the end of the stream brought us into the profit, but yours was sweat-free because, like Miles Sanders, fumbled the first play of the game and then he went to the locker room and he was just like that, was it cooked? But that was a great play regardless. 

13:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Under one and a half catches, and I even said I'd take under one catch as well, which also would have won at around plus 140 or more. Glad to give out a winner. It feels nice. Hate giving out losers. Yes agreed. 

13:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jalen Hurts' anytime touchdown was nice as well. Get it out of the way quickly as well, as soon as I saw Gainwell go down. 

14:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You knew he was down. 

14:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I knew he was down. I saw it kind of felt like that. But then on the replay I'm like, oh, this is, this is cashed, it's done, they're gonna. They would sneak that four times if they had to before they hand it off. But um, I had a really big winner and a really big loser on the super bowl. So the big winner was jalen hurt's last touchdown of the game, which I got roughly at plus 900 or so what was the rationale behind that bad? 

14:26
boy. Uh, it was just because I thought the anytime was so mispriced that I basically bet him wherever I could first and last as well yeah, but he got first and last. 

14:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yes, and anytime. 

14:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, do you have the first as well yeah, but not not a ton, not a ton. The one that I got cooked on was one that I bet on super bowl. Sunday, as I was doing the live stream of pizza buffet on pinnacle, I came across a prop that I had to do a double take on, and the prop was will any kick in the super bowl hit an upright or crossbar or whatever it was worded basically? 

15:06 - Zack Phillips (Other)
and I'm will it doink, will it doink? 

15:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
basically, and I'm looking at the price on this and I'm like this cannot be the right price, like minus 570 on the no, that's 85 implied probability. I'm like this has to be closer to 95 and so where was that at pinnacle? 

15:26
I bet it at pinnacle. I bet it elsewhere as well. Try to average my cost. Five figure loss on that bet. Very depressing because of the way in which I called that I on the stream. I only said harrison butker. Yep, I did not mention elliot, I only said harrison butker. I watched the super bowl with zach and he can attest to this. We don't have video, but as he lined up for this that kick, I said it's to hit the left upright. Yep, and it hit the left upright, just a straight doink. 

16:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Not even doink in. 

16:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
As soon as I saw it curving, I was like I'm thinking like okay, this might miss, but boom doink right off the upright, all the plus 400s or whatever cash, I would make that bet again. 

16:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I honestly would Saw somebody post a ticket of that plus 310. 

16:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh my God, the worst price in the market See this is the thing that really upsets me is because I get into this argument. I do content on the Mayo Media Network as well, weekly with Pat Mayo and Cam Stewart. Both are more recreational bettors and they honestly know how to get under my skin and they will needle me on stuff like this all the time. They'll be like plus 310. It's a winner, you. You lost your bet. What and I'm trying to explain to them like the rationale and like the plus 310 is a tear. First of all, it's a terrible price. 

16:54
Yeah, like one in four games is it, it's and they're like well, he's got, he's got 310 bucks and you lost 570. How do you feel about it? I'm, I lost a lot more than 570, but yeah, like it. There's no, there's no argument you can make with that person at that time. And listen, I get betting is for fun as well and some people just want to make entertaining bets and we've talked about this a lot. There's nothing wrong with that. But like we're price sensitive, we preach price sensitivity. If, even if I want to make a recreational, entertaining bet, I'm still going to look for a better price, like I would never settle for plus 310 on that bet. 

17:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I love gambling as much as the rest of us, but it's not that fun to bet that at plus 310. You know you're probably going to lose that bet. It's tough to do. So, yeah, I got you. But it is what it is, would you? 

17:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it's tough to do so yeah, I got you, but it is what it is. I would you play it again next year at the same price? Yeah, because, like I think what I didn't know, this actually going in. But apparently I think four of the last six super bowls had a field goal or a kick hit, an upright doink, and that's why it was priced this way. Let's be real here because it's like a. It's like the safety prices when they changed after. 

18:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There are safeties in the super bowl, Buddy if I tell you, for six years in a row, after the Ravens 49ers Super Bowl, I bet no stadium blackout. I wish they would offer this again right now. Literally no stadium power outage was offered, because there was one power outage. 

18:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean. So it's like a recency bias type thing. Of course I'd make that bet again. I would make that if they offered that bet for every single NFL game. For the rest of the time. I'd bet every single NFL game minus 170, no kick to hit the upright minus 570, a minus 570. But there was some other sweats, like Kevin Davis who hosts a 90 degrees right here on the circles off YouTube channel as well. The balls on that guy. Most people who come on like the Super Bowl prop stream, like you get people who come on and they're looking to give like a long shot, like a big winner. We had a harrison butker, mvp 350 could not have lost more right, exactly, first kick missed, right. 

18:54
So which I don't care, I mean, you're taking it, you're, you're swinging for the fences. You want to be the hero. Joey knish comes on, cadarious tony, first chief's reception eight to one. You, you want to be a hero? Fine, be a hero. Kevin Davis comes on and he's like I'm laying minus 750 on no kicker to miss two or more field goals in the game and, of course, first kick of the game, missed field goal. The amount that that guy must have been sweating. The Super Bowl is no longer enjoyable at that point. 

19:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You're sweating, Bucker, that last kick. You're like, please make this kick. 

19:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Of course, and like from the 19-yard line, and I actually had a prop on it not to go to overtime as well- oh, that's good, Then you got it. That Bucker kick at the end. 

19:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Well, it wasn't even the Bucker kick, it was more the penalty. Call that as well. 

19:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
that was going on, that was well, uh, lot, lots of things worked in my favor there, but game was almost scripted. There was, uh, you know, 37, 34 was the wrong script, 38, 35, close, close. Where'd you guys watch the game? Uh, in in my dungeon in the basement yeah you had the boys over. 

19:59
Yeah, I had the hammer hq team, uh, producers zach phillips behind the glass here, jacob jason cooper and, uh, my director of content, alex moretto, partner in crime. It was a pretty good. It was a fun game. It was just like a a little bit of a less than combined combined net wins or losses. 

20:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
There, combined net roi from the from the team I would say very high. 

20:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But honestly, for like a lot for most of us it just came down to what the anthem time was you guys want, yeah, we we like you know, you have general idea of what the anthem time is going to be, but like there was middles that happened on the anthem this year depending on the books there's 30 books in ontario. Not every single one offered the anthem time. Obviously it's just like a handful. But then you have some other accounts and so on. So that was a good start, but we had a lot of the same bets. I would say there wasn't guys really rooting against each other a whole lot? I can't speak on behalf of everyone, but I think most people had a good night. Good Glad to hear. Yeah, most people had a good night. Good Glad to hear yeah. 

21:04
I just really wanted to see the Eagles try to drive. It just felt like from a neutral, like forget about betting aside and I won't make commentary on the call. I actually, in hindsight, think it was the right call During the broadcast, when it was happening, they really did not show the hold on the initial break from the receiver Show the second one. 

21:25
They just kept showing like the ticky tack down the field stuff. I'm like that's not a hold and Greg Olson, the commentator I actually think is very good, but he's very fixated on that as well. And then, like post game, you kind of got all the angles and you saw the initial hold and you have James Bradbury come out and say it was a hold, but james bradbury come out and say it was a hold. Um, but that was it it. It put a damper on what could have been maybe the greatest super bowl ever. 

21:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
If the eagles like went down the field and scored a titter and just yeah, with like no time left. Exactly you know what, though? I will say like they, they usually don't call those. So yeah, it was a hold, but like they usually don't call that, it is kind of a soft call for that scenario. So I'm with the whole football media stuff. 

22:09
At the end of the day, if you, if you just evaluate every single penalty and every single play, you'll find at least one penalty, if not more, on every single play, and it's been someone doing a holding or an illegal hands to the face or something like that, or a bump. And so even on passing, like on any catch down field, if you want to, you can kind of call a pass interference. There's no real standardized rule, so it is what it is. They called it as is. That's why you know if, uh, if you lost a lot of money, unfortunate, but uh, that's why you know bet responsibly, bet within your means, bankroll manage. If you had a ton tied to the eagles or anything like that, sucks, lose, like that, you know. 

22:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One thing I found very interesting the day after the Super Bowl so that was on Monday of this week was a tweet from Barry Horse on Twitter. Barry Horse is he kind of emerged as a big baseball better several years ago. He's now working with a larger group. Doesn't tweet all that much anymore in terms of stuff, but he tweets on February 13th. Curious, if you bet last night's game and the same game was played again next week with the same players and health levels, who did you bet on and would you bet them again? 

23:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What are the results here? So the result I voted as well. 

23:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I voted on this as well, so 796 votes came in. I bet KC and would re-bet KC 52%. Bet KC and wouldn't re-bet KC 13%. Bet Philly and would re-bet Philly 29%. Bet Philly and wouldn't re-bet Philly 6%. 

23:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So 58% of people would bet on KC right now by those numbers and in the previous there was actually 64% of people, so a six-person swing would have actually went from KC to betting on the Eagles based on the game, despite the fact that KC won Agreed. 

23:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now, I voted on this poll even though I didn't bet the game, because sometimes I just want to see that there's like a see review results button somewhere or something like that. I never see that there's like a see review results button somewhere or something like that. I never click that, I just click click. So I voted bet KC and would re-bet KC because it's the top option and I wanted to see the results. But what I find so fascinating about this and there's a long thread that accompanies this later on that day from Barry Horse the game was basically a coin flip before the game and turned out to essentially be a coin flip. Disagree, agree, pretty much. Yeah, I mean, 80 of the people would make the exact same bet on a coin flip before the game. That turned out to be a coin flip. Do you not find that like extremely funny to me? Like how, how did is anyone have so much conviction that they're like no, no, for it was kc was the right side, I'm pretty sure. 

24:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Like the eagles outplayed like the eagles were. I did see, I don't. I don't believe in any of this stuff. 

24:57
When you say like the right side yeah, no no, the eagles definitely were the team that should have won the game. Given, given where they were at the half, like the way they played, the eagles should have definitely won the game. But when you say should of it's like you know, not not really like it's, it was still a coin flip, like at the at no point where the eagles, like the highest they were was roughly or just before the half which would have been in the in and around the range of, let's say, fair price minus 325. 

25:25
Minus 325. Yeah, it's a significant favorite, but those lose every day, those lose all the time. 

25:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And if you look at a football game over the course of the season, you're going to have a very high percentage that go higher than that type of odds you didn't have like the Eagles at one point at like minus 6,000, and then but, like my, what I'm laughing about is there, like there's so much conviction in these results and it's a small sample, 796 votes who knows how many of them are actually real or not but like, if you bet KC or Philly, how do you walk away from that game being like, just like you absolutely had the right side of the game, like the game was, was it came down to the wire, was uh, in my opinion, as close to a coin flip as you can get, where there was several times over the course of the latter, over the course of the game, where things changed pretty aggressively. 

26:20
I, I just, I just find this hilarious. Like this is so fun. Like it's like confirmation bias, I don't know what. It's just the weirdest thing. Like, if I bet either side of this game and I saw what happened in the game, there's no way I would have re-bet it at any point. Like 0% chance. Like the game was so close. 

26:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
How like you wouldn't re-bet this at minus 110 aside. No, you just leave it Fair enough. 

26:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Whatever the price was before the game Like, in my opinion this was a very good price. On the Super Bowl, I mean, pinnacle sports book was taking 550K US dollars on the side at kickoff. 

27:03 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, fyi, don't operate in the US, rob, $750k US dollars on the side at kickoff. Yeah, fyi, don't operate in the US. 

27:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Rob's just saying currency equivalent, right for our audience. That's in the US, you'd understand. That's $775K Canadian. Okay, as soon as they opened up their live betting, they opened it up at $50K a pop immediately to start the game. This is like they're very, very, very, very confident in this number, extremely confident, all the bets that they've processed over the course of the week. And then the game turns out to be a coin flip and there's still people who would just just like no, kc was the right, philly was the right side. It's, I don't I don't. 

27:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What was the worst bet you saw placed on the, on the game, on the big game, uh? 

27:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
that's a good question. I don't know that there's one that stand out to me that rattled me. 

27:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I I don't know the worst value bets are usually, from what I've seen, the worst. Worst value bets are people who bet on the stuff. That's already the known info and they bet the wrong thing, so like if you bet the rihanna first song and you didn't have the info and you just took one that was like plus 2500. That's typically one of the worst bets. Second worst is like if you take the person to show up alongside Rihanna. 

28:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, yeah, Jay-Z. 

28:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, jay-z, like those are, have those won Like they had to have won at one point. 

28:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There was a few. There's definitely been a few Super Bowls where there has been someone that's accompanied the main person. 

28:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You have to pick who, and usually it's no one. Of course there's. Yeah. I think those are the worst bets overall. 

28:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well that's the thing. It's not predatory by the sports book because people want to bet this stuff, but there's not enough education out there about the novelty props that if you're gonna go bet it right before the game time or whatever like the outcome is already known and it's been processed in the market for the most part yeah, it's not not much value well, one of the books that I saw had um three people in minus money to show up alongside rihanna. 

29:14 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Three people it was asap, rocky, jay-z and drake. They're all minus to show up and there was no option to bet. No, like, no appearances and like people are obviously betting that it is what it is well, I saw um. 

29:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Another bet that I really dislike is people who bet uh mvps and then they take the players who are like right in the no man's land, oh yeah. So I do think the biggest negative ev bets on the mvp market are actually typically on like the running backs. So you know, like sanders, pacheco, like pachenko as uh boston scott yeah, um, guys like sanders like to win the mvp. 

29:51
It's like 2400, and the shot at which it takes from the win the mvp is like so so much less likely than 2400, like even with a hold that's already being built in, which is typically bigger on those markets, and and the shot at which it takes for him to win the MVP is so much less likely than $2,400. 

30:03
Even with the hold that's already being built in, which is typically bigger on those markets, and you factor in the fact that it's super unlikely for him to win in that scenario, I think those are probably the worst value bets that involve the actual game and the thinking. Obviously, if you're going to just take coin toss at certain amounts, that stuff is known edges. But, yeah, worst bets I think typically are those three I mentioned and stuff like that. That stuff's just like known edges. But uh, yeah, worst bets I think typically are those those three I mentioned, like the novelty stuff when you just kind of pick and choose and you're like, ah, whatever, jay-z, mike, mike, come on, let me, let me toss 100 bucks on that, and then, uh, the mvp markets there, but a lot of uh, a lot of fun bets as well. 

30:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Come super bowl and uh good, some good stuff what was your I won't even say biggest win, but, like your, your favorite bet that you placed, that cashed, and then, on the opposite side of things, what was like the one that hurt the most? 

30:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
um, so favorite bet that cashed honestly, like for the fun of it, like the tails plus 101, like again, it's not, it wasn't a big bet or anything, it's just like, hey, like I got this, let me take it, so that was fun, just to just to see it win. Like you lose that, I would have kind of been rattled Like, ah, damn it. Like lost his bet. Um, best bet, favorite bet I made that I was like it was just an easy, easy and then it was just like a quick one that just bounced first play of the game and then bet that I lost. That was a little, it's like, just because of you know, overall like the, the way that it kind of progressed was actually like jalen hurts mvp. 

31:27
I had like super good numbers on that and then that's essentially after he gets the three touchdowns or even before. Then it's like all right, hurts is the mvp as long as eagles win the bowl, yeah, it's locked and loaded. As soon as he got the second rushing touchdown, it's like not even at the end of the first half. You're like this guy can't not win MVP. If Philly wins it, I'm good here. And then you just see Philly blow the game. So at that point I guess I did have a position on Philly, essentially at the money line, although I didn't have that bad director, did you have any like big, like minus a thousand losses, or in that? 

31:59
range or anything like that. No losses, that's all winners in the. 

32:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's good those are the ones that suck yeah, I had all winners in those and then I had pretty much all losers in the uh, the high pluses yeah it was one of those years yep, yeah, aside from the hurts um last touchdown I didn't have any big plus money like big plus money ones, yeah that's it I had. 

32:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I mean. So I had a. I guess I don't really say say too too much about all the stuff I had, but I had a bunch of uh props that were in the range of like plus 800 to like plus 2000 on one certain bet type that. I was pretty bullish on and then just never came to fruition on any of them, so got got swept on those ones. 

32:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It is what it is that happens at least it was a good game, man, that's it. We've had a couple good games in a row, I think. I think last year Bengals Rams kind of ended in the same like lackluster way or just like well, it had that also holding call uh on near the goal line as well. 

33:03 - Zack Phillips (Other)
That resulted in TD. 

33:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yep, all right what else we got to talk. I got a question real quick for Johnny. 

33:08 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Last thing for Super Bowl, because I obviously talked to Rob about this the biggest halftime promotion of all time, rob gronkowski oh my god, I forgot I we didn't even mention that I lost. 

33:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I did have that. So gronkowski minus 230 yes, okay, so you had gronkowski minus 230. 

33:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, um, I can't remember the exact prices I took, but I did same game parlays with chiefs to win and gronk to make the kick, eagles to win and gronk to make the kick just because to win and Gronk to make the kick just because it paid better. Basically was like better price than taking the minus 230 if I was doing that Fair enough. 

33:43 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So yeah, you just basically just double the bet. You know you're gonna lose one. You know Exactly. 

33:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So you're, but what? First of all, this is my own fault, by the way. I missed it, by the way. Okay. 

33:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I I probably went to go grab a beer or something. I missed it. 

33:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm the asshole here, so I preach this all the time to people and I'm going to eat my words here or just admit fault. I'm the guy that says like you got to know the rules, you got to know what you're betting with, all these bet types and whatever. For some reason, I thought Gronk was just going to come out onto the field at some point in the game and he was just gonna fucking kick a field goal? 

34:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
no, I knew it wasn't at the actual field. It was supposed to be live it was live but it was supposed to be. 

34:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This was a the biggest fucking joke I've. I cannot even believe that this actually happened fan duel. 

34:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Better give me a refund right now for this, bet you mad bro, I am. 

34:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was very mad because first of all, I watched it, I thought it went in Okay. Now I've seen the alternate angle now. 

34:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You still win. They just had it already. What was that? 

34:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I got to be very careful with my words here, because I've never you know I talk about things not being rigged and whatever. I'm not suggesting that this is rigged in any way. It looked like a CGI kick, bro. Yeah, it didn't even look like this was real life. I've never seen the ball move that way and everyone's like, oh, it was really windy in Arizona and whatever. Do you see the ball move on that 25-yard field goal? It was absurd, how far like. And then there was the one that circulated around Twitter, which is just the uprights and the ball disappearing behind the upright. It looked very clear in that picture. Now, listen, I'll accept the L. I'm going to eat the L. It's on me and I did see the side angle. That wasn't right. This was horrendous. Now, listen, we're talking about it. At the end of the day, fanduel wants us to be talking about this right now, but I'm gonna bleep their name in terms of in terms of execution of this promotion horrendous, horrible. 

35:55
They did all this these commercials beforehand and it was just. It was literally a commercial during the game where they said it was live. We have no freaking clues out in the desert, in some other field and it just came on, it just like random. Here's gronk and he drops to his knees after he misses the kick and there's some fireworks and I I it took me minutes to process what happened. I actually just sat there in disbelief of what I watched. We're all looking, it was quiet, we're all just like what did we just watch? 

36:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I was with a bunch of guys watching the game who were betting and they primarily use you know they'll use a bunch of books, but they had bets on FanDuel. And then they'd be like they're just like oh, come on, dude, Like what is this? They're just like oh, come on, dude, like what is this? What? Oh, I get five. What do I get? A five dollar casino spin. Like I don't even give a shit. They're all just. 

36:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Everyone's just rattled at that man, I, I don't know, I'm an idiot man. Obviously, in hindsight, they weren't going to just bring gronk onto the field to kick a field goal during the super bowl. 

36:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
At least buy like a 30 second slot for that. They just like it was like what was it? 15 seconds, 10 seconds, 10 seconds I I I cannot. 

36:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't have the words to explain what I witnessed there, but whatever I did was such and, by the way, like Gronk. Here's the thing. This to me I'm exaggerating when I say this, but I don't even want Gronk in the hall of fame anymore. You're a pro. You're a pro athlete and you've been practicing for weeks on this and you can't kick a 25-yard field goal. Come on, man. This is Rob Gronkowski, professional athlete, built like a fucking truck. The guy who took Frank Brank yard in college. 

37:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Did he? 

37:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, frank Brank was on our Forward Progress Super Bowl stream. Gave out a winning bet combined under Mahomes Hurts passing yards. Guy's a multi-sport player, you know what I'm saying. Gronkowski played ball, played baseball. Nobody wanted to pitch to that guy. He's just taking everybody to town. But what the fuck was that man? It was the fuck was that man. There was anyways. Good shit. I don't want to see that gimmicky shit during the super bowl anymore. I don't want to see it. I hope nobody does that anymore. I hope this. This to me was at the points bet drew brie stuff was a like a disaster. The one of the some of the dumbest marketing I've ever seen. This is coming from a non-marketer, by the way, and I'm still talking about the points bet Drew Brees thing, but this one was on another level. Like it outdid the shittiness of that Drew Brees lightning strike. Like it was so shit. 

38:30 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Unbelievably. I can't believe. I bet on that man. That was just absolute dust. 

38:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I you know, for I have myself. I'm not blaming anybody but myself. I know I've said all this stuff about. Ultimately, I clicked the submit button. It's on me. I should have known what was coming. 

38:47 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Fair enough, what else we got to talk about today? I know we had a couple yes, a couple of things here. 

38:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I want to get your thoughts on the Minty Betts tweet. Ah, mint the Mint the Mint. So Minty Betts at Minty Betts on Twitter, was on the UFC broadcast. I'm not a big UFC fan anymore. Yep, I was back in the day. 

39:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know I'm a massive fan. What was the event For this week? Yeah, volkanovski versus Makachev. So I think, she was on before this. What was the week before? This was from the Spivak fight. It was from two weeks ago. 

39:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So she came under fire a lot for a couple of things. 

39:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, this was all time. A lot of people gave her shit for this. 

39:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes. So one was a response to a tweet where someone asked her what under two and a half means if you're betting a UFC fight, and the response is on screen Under two and a half means it cannot enter the third round. In my experience, it doesn't literally have to be under the halfway point of the second round for you to cash your bet. However, this may be different per book. In my opinion, it could be a discrepancy that you found under two and a half minus 190 and not to start round three, so the guy who was saying this. 

39:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He wasn't just asking her hey, what is under two and a half mean? He was like I think I found like an arbitrage opportunity where I can bet like the over on this round and the under two and a half on this round, which was obviously not the case, given that he was unaware that under two and a half. For those who don't know, listening, it's not like a run in baseball where if you get two runs it's under two and a half. It's literally the rounds are five minutes is literally two minutes and 30 seconds of that round is two and a half. So you have to go two rounds plus two minutes and 30 seconds and then, if you're 231 in now it hit. 

40:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right. So this was the perfect storm for Minty Betts that night, because there was this tweet and there was also the fact that she gave out picks on the broadcast and they all lost. No, I didn't even know that yeah. So and they all lost. No, I didn't even know that. Yeah, so it was not a great night for her on on social um, which honestly, it shouldn't really matter, because they usually have johnny the greek on that broadcast and there's people who I I know that are actually retired off of fading his picks on the ufc. 

40:50
I don't. I don't know why I didn't jump in on that earlier, but anyway, she came under a lot of fire for this specific tweet and I get it for one. You are a betting analyst or portray yourself as a betting expert in the space. You got to know this stuff period, and if you're going to response, respond and put it in writing or put it on a video and it's just totally incorrect. I mean, you deserve, I don't, I don't like you, don't deserve people. Some of the things people say on social are just undeserving in general, but is it fair for people to have backlash when you portray yourself as a betting analyst, betting analyst, betting expert? Yes, I think it is 100%. Now she does say in this tweet that it may be different per book. It's almost like okay, this is what I think. Go and consult your book, see what it's like. I have never seen a book that grades this any differently than this, have you? 

41:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I will say there is none Okay. 

41:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So in the tweet there is some like positive, like there is a message there that I think people can take home, which is there are different book rules. I've never seen anything differently. With that said, I think getting backlash for this tweet is fair. Personally, getting backlash for being tweet is fair. Personally, getting backlash for being on the UFC broadcast, I think, is unfair Maybe a little bit fair, but mostly unfair. Because if you were asked, would you accept that job? This is what I'm saying, right. 

42:34
Like, put yourself in the shoes of someone who's in the betting space right now, creating content, putting out picks, doing whatever. Um and the ufc comes to you and says we want you to give out betting picks on our broadcast, the vast, vast majority of people are going to say yes. So, like, she got asked to be on the UFC broadcast, she gave up picks on the broadcast. She did her job. I didn't watch it, I didn't see it. 

43:06
For all the negative stuff that she got, there's a lot of people giving positive reinforcement, saying she did a good job. I don't know what the goals for the UFC are on that broadcast, but people think it's like, oh, just put someone on the broadcast, that's gonna give me winners. Like think about everything that goes into producing something like this. There's a sports book sponsor, there's a demographic that they're trying to reach For all we know. She did exactly what was asked of her in that position and 99% of the people out there would do it. I't even bet the ufc. If you ask me to be a ufc betting analyst and go on the ufc broadcast, I'd probably do it. 

43:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's that's like an experience of a lifetime of course. 

43:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So like don't get on her for that. That's ridiculous. Like some people just take it to the next levels of like oh, why is she there, why is she this and that. It's like you don't know what the goals of the broadcast are. Right, Like if you're giving betting picks on a broadcast, the sports book wants to get their name out there. They want to drive engagement and they want to drive action at their sports book. People are like will respond to Minty Bets and be like oh, DraftKings isn't sponsoring any content that they deem sharp or they don't want any one sharp giving out picks on the UFC broadcast. They honestly don't even fucking consider that? 

44:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
no, they do. That's why. That's why the hammer betting network's not sponsored by DraftKings. It's too sharp, there we go. 

44:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But we work with recreational sports books right, and there's sharp action on the on on a lot of the shows that we do. We track our picks. There's an Edgework account on Betstamp. There's a pick and roll account on Betstamp. Luke's Locks is in the green Somehow. Luke's. 

44:45 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Locks is in the green. Johnny, have you seen the Edgework account how we're doing the NHL? You? 

44:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
guys are doing good right. Yeah buddy the only account down, and I don't want to chirp him because he's just. I got to tell him that story too. 

44:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Hit the books, Hit the books is in the red Hit the books is in the red Kanish. Brought it down, let's. Let's call it off for what it is. 

45:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Brett, do you have anything else to say on Minty? Otherwise, I got a good story with Kanish. I do. 

45:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I listen, go ahead when you put yourself out there. You're Like honestly, search my name on Twitter and look at half the replies I get. 

45:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Search Rob Pozzola idiot. 

45:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's because some stuff's going to come up, I just mute and move on. I don't see most of the stuff, and if it's a new person that created a new account or someone new, I just mute and I move on with my life, because there's always going to be haters out there so you can be upset for the tweet. I think that's fair because I think that you got to know better. If you're in that case, if you're, if you are going to portray yourself as a betting expert, you better be a betting expert and it's okay to not do that. By the way, it's okay to produce content, to say like you can be like Pat Mayo and be like yeah, I like to bet. I don't necessarily win at betting, but we're going to have some fun. We be like, yeah, I like to bet. I don't necessarily win at betting, but we're going to have some fun, we're going to make entertaining content and boom. You don't and not everyone has to be a winner. Like again, if this is I'm going back to the same rant I have like once every 10 episodes you don't have to be a winner, you don't have to be an expert. It's okay for you to respond to somebody and say I don't know the answer to that. I do it all the time. 

46:16
People DM me questions and say I don't know. I actually don't understand the math behind this. Maybe you should message Plus EV Analytics. Maybe you should message this person and point them in the right direction. It's okay to do that, but don't criticize her for taking a like basically a dream job for a lot of people. 

46:31
I'm not saying I know, I don't know Minty at all, I've ever interacted with her, but that criticism is unfair for one, because everybody would do that and it's part of the job. And some people might say they might have like a moral or ethical thing with that right, which is like oh you, you shouldn't be giving out picks if you're not a winner on the broadcast. That's unethical or whatever. That's more gray area and open to interpretation. I have no problem with minty bets being on a ufc broadcast, but she should probably be portrayed in like a real light rather than an expert. I think when you start calling people experts in the space, there's this connotation that's associated with that of they know exactly what they're talking about. And I actually think more recreational betters should be incorporated into broadcasts, but it should be done in a way where people don't view them as like the be all end all go to. This person knows everything about the sport. 

47:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's not what it's about yeah, no, I agree, and a lot of people get hate online and um, especially in twitter. It's like pretty toxic and, at the end of the day, like those are just like that's just a person, she's just doing her job. Like why, why is everyone like hating on it? 

47:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
like because some people think that they're above, that they're above doing that job really they're above tweeting at her from a burner account john behind a thing. 

47:55
I've lived through this and you can tell me I was wrong or whatever. But when I was in my early 20s, when I was working at the score, the first on-air gig that I got was a show called Covers Experts. Okay, I basically ran an infomercial for Covers handicappers at the time, most of whom were long-term losers, and I didn't know it. I didn't know any better. I was entering the space and, like, I'm talking to these guys on a daily basis and they can all talk the talk right. You don't know, when you're in your twenties and that was an on-air gig for me, I would never have passed that up. I didn't know any better and even if I did know any better at that time, I probably still would have. 

48:40
I'm just being real with the audience. Like you want to break into, you want to reach your goals. Like you, you want to do it in a way that is ethical, obviously. But this is the space. If you turn down a gig like that and I sympathize with some people because you, you're just going to this is going to be another hundred people, thousands of people lining up to take that spot Right. So the criticism of her being on the broadcast is unfounded, it's just. I have more criticism with the broadcast in general. 

49:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The broadcast itself. 

49:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, no, but but how they portray the people that go on like Johnny the Greek giving out picks that guy's a fucking scammer. Like through and through a lifetime scammer. Gave out you know steam plays, plays that already steamed for years. Like that guy should not be portrayed as an expert. He should not be anywhere near a broadcast, in my opinion. Okay, and I know how he can talk and portray himself and whatever. He flat out scammed people for years, plain and simple, okay. So do I blame him for going on the broadcast? No, you know, you're gonna ask him and he's he's like fuck, yeah, of course I'm gonna do it. I love the ufc, I love to give out pics or whatever, probably getting paid pretty well too. Right, I'm not blaming him. 

50:07
It's on the UFC to run their broadcast properly. And I don't know what their goals are, but like, look in the mirror and maybe just find someone. Like, even if they're not an expert in the space, you can have them on the broadcast. Just don't portray them as an expert in the space. Like just what happened to just being real with the audience. Like, just be real with people. I don't understand why we have to turn everybody who is bet on sports at some point in their life into an expert on betting on sports. Yeah, it's okay to talk about sports and not be an expert. It's fine, it's okay to talk about sports betting and not be an expert. Just the audience should know that. Like, why is that? Why do you? Like is there? Why is that hard? Is it the ego of the sports? Better where they're? Like I can't admit that I'm a losing, better or whatever. 

50:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Like I don't know what it is. Well, I don't know. I don't know if people would really like listen to them on sports betting if they didn't think that they were a winner. That's another thing, though sure. 

51:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But like, okay, look at, look at trent book at trent he's made, he's he's got 160, I rescind my comment he's made a hundred. 

51:08
He's got 160k followers on twitter. I don't even know what his tiktok is at or whatever. He's made that following off of making fun of himself for losing bets. For the most part, he does other things. Well, okay, that's just one. That's one guy. He's built a sense of community with people. Right, that resonates with people. Look at Barstool. Like the people who, the people who are betting the Barstool picks every week. You know big. I love big cat. I think he's a fuck. He's fucking great personality. He's hilarious. Okay, portnoy, like do you think people are winning tailing these picks? They must realize that they're not winning tailing these picks over time. But it's not. It's like this sense of camaraderie amongst the group we're going to win together, we're going to lose together. There's an appetite for that in the space. Big cat's not going on broadcasts and portraying himself as an expert. 

52:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know I couldn't agree more, so. So there's an appetite for my earlier statement. You're right, there's an appetite for that. 

52:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There are people, though, that want to watch our youtube channels and the right angle sports youtube channel and unabated sports and whatever, because there's an appetite for sharp content out there as well. For everyone that consumes content. It's a little bit different in what they're looking for. Some people want to watch a 45 minute show because they want to get four or five good picks in that show and they know that when they go bet them they're probably going to get closing line value. They probably have a good chance to win them. There's another segment of the population that doesn't care for that 45 minute show. They want a 45 minute show where guys and girls are just being buds and chilling out and talking sports and firing off a million bets and they're going to have a ton to cheer for tonight and that's fine. There's an appetite for that. Just be real with the audience, that's it. That's it. 

52:55
People, people just should not be misled into believing that the content creator is something that they're not. That's why we track all of the stuff that we do on the hammer, every pick that's given out on a show. We track it in Betstamp Because at any point and we promote it, it's on the screen on every single show that we do. The bottom of the screen, the Betstamp account when we track the picks. Because that way Someone who's tuning into the content Can go, someone who's tuning into the content can go and they can look through the entire history of those picks and say maybe I should tail these, maybe I should fade them, maybe I should do nothing with this, but I find this show entertaining. You can make an informed decision. 

53:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's quite literally, the only way you should be able to do content with giving out picks is by having some sort of accountability, so that you're not scamming the people. I love that Pizzola does that, obviously on the shows. It just adds for me, for me personally, like if I'm looking through a piece of content and I have no way to track what this person's record is, whatever, like there's no credibility in that. And then even a lot of times it's like, oh yeah, record to be found here and then it's like, well, where's this season? This season's not here. This season's not here. 

54:05
Where was this? Bets? How do I know this was a stale line, all this shit. Like we do it in a good way, where it's live in the show. You can follow the account on bet stamp anyways, meaning that if you miss a show you can still just. You don't have to always be constantly like you know, if you miss a show from yesterday, you don't have to go back check the. You know, if you miss a show from yesterday, you don't have to go back check the picks. Make sure they did everything legit, it's all legit, it's all there. 

54:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Exactly, we have our producers literally put them in in real time as the pick is given out on the show. 

54:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Zach, who does edge work and hosting, is putting in the pick, locking it in, and a lot of times it's on the actual screen. 

54:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know, like every single pick I give out on Edgework is on that Edgework account. I expect to win at hockey in the long run. I think I've established myself as someone who can win on hockey. But every single pick I give on that show is on that account and it's tracked. I track my NFL Sunday morning pizza buffet powered by Pinnacle. I don't expect to win on that show. 

55:00
I put it in the bio specifically of the show because I don't want to mislead people into thinking that they're going to go there on Sunday at 12 noon and be able to take all the picks that I've locked in and then go and bet at pinnacle into a hundred thousand dollar market and be able to win. I don't think I can personally do that. I have a negative ROI when I do that show on Sunday mornings over the course of the last three years since I've been tracking on Betstamp. Does it bother me? No, because that's kind of the expectation. 

55:30
People still find value in that, maybe not in the picks itself, maybe in the breakdowns of the game. Maybe they still want a tail because they think that there's you know what I'm saying might be something that can overcome the market in the long run. But ultimately, just be real. Just be real. If I was doing Monday morning NFL content, you probably see a different record, you know, but I'm not. I'm tracking it on Sunday. I'm not there to say, oh, you know, I did this, I did that. That Sunday show is going to do this over a long period of time and I mean, that's that's it. It's just being real with the audience. 

56:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Just be be real, yeah a lot of a lot of you guys got, uh, came after me after last episode with fezik there that was the most polarizing episode we ever did. A lot of guys came after me. They're like, hey, this guy, like you're so disrespectful to fezik like listen, the end of the day, I don't hide behind Twitter alias. I don't have my own Twitter. That's the only way I'm going to talk to the guy. Do it out in a public forum. Do I have an issue with the guy? Absolutely not. Do I believe that people are going to win by buying his picks? Absolutely not. That, instead of the same as like you guys, like hiding behind twitter aliases, calling people out, like say it to his face, we figure it out. 

56:46
I didn't. I didn't really think that he answered all the questions super well. Obviously you guys heard my uh, my thoughts with it. I don't think the guy is a long-term losing better, but I also don't think the picks that he's gonna sell are gonna win. So like, might as well have a discussion about that. It was all in good fun. We're buddy, buddy after the show. We're buddies. I talked to fez, it's not. 

57:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We talked to him 20 minutes off air. 

57:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, it's not, it's not anything. It's just like hey, why can't we have a discussion on air without people saying fez is a scumbag? Or the people saying like, oh john, he's uh disrespectful, going hard on him, like plus, also another thing rob mentioned earlier. Like rob gets a lot of hate on twitter, obviously, um, but you're not used to it. Oh no, I don't really care. I don't have twitter. I don't really get to read much. 

57:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
To be honest, I don't see him unless, like, I go to actually check the the show for some reason well, I checked, I checked the youtube comments for every show I do every week and like people are like, no, don't do that, don't do that. It's like why I honestly don't care Like exactly. 

57:43
The feedback is valuable, no matter what I might disagree. Somebody might say, oh Rob, you like you know, you let this guy off the hook. Or I didn't like you doing this, I didn't like you doing that, that's fine, it's all valuable to me. You know, there's obviously a disrespectful where. Now I don't value that opinion anymore. You're gonna come out and just call me a plain idiot or a fraud or whatever like that. That, to me, does not resonate with me. I don't want to see that. So I'm going to mute you. I'm gonna. I'm gonna move on with life. But I I thought the comments were fair. Last week, like some people will say, a lot of people supported me, though that's what I'm saying like this is what I'm saying way more support. 

58:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Wait is like at least like four to one in terms of people who are supporting. 

58:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What I've noticed, though particularly is our youtube audience so like, our organic youtube audience is very different from our youtube gambling twitter, so so from our twitter audience. So we have a certain number of views that I know on a week, the percentage of views that comes from our twitter when we tweet out the links and whatever, and it comes in. Then we have a bunch of organic YouTube people that have found us through YouTube and they're very different audiences and you can see that because there's a the Twitter group of people that watched the Fezzik episode wanted Fezzik to get sured yeah, they wanted me to go more hard at it. 

59:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
They wanted why don't you say all this other? 

59:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
stuff they wanted they. For years there's been a collection of people that they don't respect Fezzik. They have problems with him, so they wanted to see us drag him through the mud. I speak my mind. I don't conduct interviews like that. I can if I'm very, very passionate about something, but that audience wanted to see that. The YouTube audience wanted to see like a more generic interview about this guy is a better what he does. You know this and that and you're not gonna be able to cater to everyone at all times. We'll never be able to do that, but I never watch interviews back. I watched it back a couple days ago, saturday, the day before the Super Bowl. I thought it was a freaking good episode, man. 

59:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We got a lot of good feedback. 

59:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was like a very I think that we do good interviews personally. 

01:00:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, I agree Honestly. A few other things for, uh, the audience members, because I did read, I was able to take a look at some more comments this week, given that this episode from phasic generated so much buzz. Um, but yeah, obviously, like, listen, we do this podcast for fun. The end of the day, rob and I literally do it because we're like hey, we get to bring on cool people that we like we get to to shoot the shit. 

01:00:24
It's a good chance for Rob and I to catch up once a week and even sometimes in these episodes, have a discussion. Like sure, I talked to Rob, you know, nearly every day, but usually it's about something specific. We're not just I don't really just message him like hey, you got like sick, what are your six bets for the Superbowl? So it's really good that we can actually even just have these chats, but for the most part, we do it for fun. Um, so, yeah, obviously we're open any feedback on, like, how to improve it. But at the end of the day, like, if it, if this is going to become a podcast where, like, we got to be like corporate and have to start. 

01:00:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're not going to do it. That's, that's not either of us. I mean, I'm never listen. I'll. I'll toe the line in how I deliver a message. I'll always do that right, like I don't want people to feel offended or hear something and take it in the wrong way. So I deliberately, for the most part, try to think about what I'm gonna say before I say it. Now there are episodes where I just go off that tweet that girl sent me about sports betting and the NFL. You know, no, basically the NFL would exist. Exactly that just sent me spinning and I probably didn't rationalize or process my thoughts before I actually said that. 

01:01:30
But you again, to, to, to, like to circle back on. Do you circle in there? The true, true, like professional radio, move right there to circle back. It's about being real with the audience. You don't have to deliver the message in a way that's going to offend everyone or what. Just be real with people. And like I'm not going to come on here. We have a spot we sponsored content pinnacle. I bet at pinnacle. It's a sports book that I'm happy to promote or whatever. But like I'm not sheltered from saying things about other sports books if pinnacle did people harm in any way or whatever. I wouldn't even stray from talking about that. It's it's being real with what's going on in the betting space helping educate people, bringing on guests that not necessarily are going to provide value to everyone but, like some of the interviews we do are for entertainment purposes. 

01:02:23
Jeff Benson, jj that was like that just came together. It's the idea these guys have been beefing on Twitter. Let's, let's bring them together and have fun. Of course, you know, we, we try to have fun with it. So we're all, I'm all about continuous improvement. 

01:02:41
We say this. You know, johnny, you messaged me with a thread once from someone who built up a really large YouTube channel where one of the steps in the thread was like on a monthly basis, just try to think of some, do something that's a little bit different than the month before to progress your channel. And I think about that and like, what would the audience want to see? And but I never stray from being real with people and I think that hopefully we've seen it with the growth of this channel and the listenership. I see I'm an analytical person. I check the numbers every week starting to build an audience of people that are outside of the people that knew of us beforehand, and it's refreshing because I think being real with people ultimately resonates with people yeah, yeah, I, I agree, we're trying our best here. 

01:03:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Another criticism that I that I've been getting recently is like like I'm on my phone and stuff during the podcast and like well, he has a, he has adhd, yeah, but it's not, it's not even that like people don't really understand. It's like we film this in real time like we have stuff going on it's. Yeah, it's hard, it's hard to you. Guys got to realize like obviously don't get paid to do the podcast like we do it with rob. 

01:03:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He's not calling me cheap, by the way, he volunteered to not get no, no, it's our. 

01:03:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's our podcast. We do it like I it's not like I'm getting paid for this and if, even if I was like it wouldn't be, uh, my full-time job, that I'm gonna just like care, like you know, come here and whatever. So I'm obviously running stuff throughout the day and just going on. And I think what a lot of people don't really realize is sometimes, you know, with all with traveling and other things and meetings, like rob and I can't always get, we have to meet up in person to get this and it doesn't always come to fruition where we can meet up every single week. So sometimes we'll have to do. We'll run two episodes in one day. 

01:04:22
For example, last week with the with the fesic one. We actually had recorded that the week prior. So it was, we recorded the super bowl episode. Yep, we recorded that one. The super bowl one went ran about two hours. By the time we actually sit, rob and I shoot the shit. Zach sets up, we do it probably in here two hours, two and a half hours, and then after that we get fesic. By the time we actually get him on, start the thing, explain to him here's how it goes set up his audio, then, after it's done, usually 20 minutes. 

01:04:47
usually chatting off there, yeah with the guests Like hey, how was that? Whatever, by the time it was all undone. Like that day, for example, like probably in here about five hours, if not more, straight, like I can't just take five hours not, not be on my phone, not be on my computer. There's stuff going on and, depending on the time in which we record, um, there's a lot of people that count on me for different stuff. So I do apologize. Obviously I tell the guests this in advance too. I say like listen, like we're here, like it's a key time. I may have to, you know, do something while we're on. Like don't think of it as a disrespect. I try to do it usually when rob's talking, um, not derail anything, but it is what it is Like. If I can't take that and be able to check, then like I wouldn't be able to do the podcast. 

01:05:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Anyways what Johnny's saying, like. Appreciate you saying that, by the way, but we value the feedback anyways, so it's always open. Obviously, there's reasons that we do things sometimes, which I mean if it bothers you, it bothers you Like. We're not gonna be able to please everybody all the time. That's the reality of the situation, but we're always open to feedback. If you do like the content, smash the like button on YouTube. Subscribe to the channel as well. It does help us a lot If you listen to this in audio form, rate and review five stars. 

01:05:58
We have the Twitter account at Circles Off as well, where we always see that feedback. Youtube comments we always see that feedback. Just deliver more and more of it. And if there's stuff that you'd like to see, come back. If there's things you don't like about the show, it's all valuable to us. There is a planning process in this. It's not just whim to whim, like we're gonna have this guy on this guy oh, this guy. Finally, there's a planning process into how we do everything to try to keep it seasonal, informative, fresh, everything like that. So all the feedback is valuable. Provide it and if you do like the content, smash that like button as well and we support. 

01:06:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We appreciate everyone. I'm just checking our spotify right now 432 five-star reviews, the support, and that's just spotify. It doesn't even include apple only 100, 100 of those are Pizzolas as well, rob's family. 

01:06:45 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Rob's bot account. Johnny, one last thing for you. You brought it up, you didn't say it. Knish story. 

01:06:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh yeah. So it's just a good reminder for everyone. Whenever you suffer a treacherous beat and you think, how did I just lose that? That is the worst beat in the entire world, how did I just lose that? That is the worst beat in the entire world. Just a reminder for everyone, there is somebody on the other side that just suffered that, just like got the best win, the greatest win, oh yeah. And you oftentimes like, listen, we know how it is. The loss typically hurts more than the. You know the success that you'll get on the win and the feeling of the win. In this situation, I experienced a few weekends ago what I would dub the second greatest betting win of my life. All encompassing and what I factor in by that is like being at the event live is a necessity in order for it to be a greatest win. You got to be there live. You know what I mean. Like, obviously, watching a TV, whatever, but if you're at the event live is a necessity in order for it to be a greatest win. 

01:07:44
You got to be there live okay, I mean like obviously watching a tv, whatever, but if you're at the event live and then you get the win, that's just like a prerequisite for me. So at the event live, it's a factor between the unlikeliness of the comeback or the event, the amount of money that all that stuff kind of factored into one maybe. Like, I have a little score in my mind. So I've evaluated this one as the second greatest event win I've ever had. It was NHL All-Star Game, the final game. I believe it was like Central versus Atlantic, something like that. Oh my God, I had the over in the game 11.5, and a few lower numbers too, but 11.5 to win them all. Joey Kanish I see him tweet Worst beat ever in my entire life. It's going to take me ages to get over this one. This is the worst beat ever. All right Now. 

01:08:36
I was obviously on the other side of that, kanish, very sorry that that happened to you. I actually messaged him personally, said listen, buddy. Sorry that happened. Just want to let you know listen. For every one of these there's a guy on the other side. At least you know it didn't go underappreciated. I was actually there, I enjoyed it. It didn't go underappreciated. You'll be on the other side of the next one. I'll be at home. I'll have the opposite side of the lions. You'll be at the game. It'll even out, buddy, don't worry you're that's. 

01:09:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean that's a classy move by you, because when I know that I want to bet that was opposite of him, I send them a screenshot and I say like get fucked, buddy, really try to rattle him in the moment, but that's uh for those, for those you don't know what the bet is. 

01:09:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Um, all-star game, they do a three-on-three format. Nhl also, again they do a three-on-three format format. It's typically they try a little bit harder now because if you win the winning team splits like one million dollars. So again to these players, they're all making more money than that, so it's not like an astronomical amount, but it still is an amount of money. You buy a new car, something like that. So they do try three on three. One period, 20 minute period or, sorry, two 10 minute periods. They do so first and second period, 10 minutes each 20 minute game. Total Full three on three. They seldom call any penalties or anything like that. 

01:09:49
I had the over 10.5 in the game. First game I'd gone, I believe, under. The second game went over. This game starts off no scoring Dead. At the end of the first period it was 3-0 for one of the teams and they typically clamped down in the second, so it was just drawn dead. Anyways, I think it goes 3-1, 4-1. At that time it's dead, it's 4-1. There's no more than two minutes left in the whole game. So it's five goals. 

01:10:23
They rip off seven goals in the final one minute and 20 seconds of the game. Could not have ever imagined getting seven goals over one goal for for every like literally a goal per 10 seconds, almost. Yep, they, it was pass. You're not gonna break away scorers then off the face how they go rip another goal, faceoff, go rip another goal. And the whole time I'm there, I'm at the game like it's dead, it's dead, it's dead. It's like don't even his bet is dead. I'm not even gonna try to think, cause you're always in your mind. You know you end up at the half you're like maybe I get two empty netters. You know cause you can always get two empty netters. And then you're like I think I might need three empty netters. And then you're like, can I get three empty netters and one? Go back the other way. 

01:11:11
But link the highlights to this. Zach, I think SportsCenter had the highlights Will do If you guys want to just actually watch the highlights. But, um, to spoil it, there was seven goals in the last minute, 20, including a missed penalty shot, which also just like. As soon as I get the penalty shot, I'm like, oh my god, if they get this penalty shot plus two more, yeah, I win. And then he missed the penalty shot. I'm like dead scores off the face off. Um, I still gotta order a jersey. I'm not the guy who typically does that, but for this event, like I feel like I got to do it, I got to just get the jersey. 

01:11:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And for the viewers and listeners out there, you can message JoeyKanish22 on Twitter and tell him how much of a loser he is for trying to go head to head with a couple of Canadians and hockey betting A couple of Canucks. 

01:12:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Come on K kanish, mckinnon mckinnon scores with about 15 seconds left. And then I think it was kale mccarr in the final 10 seconds, seven seconds left scores to put it to 12. Uh, it was, without a doubt, unlikely, one of the most unlikely things you'll ever see. And uh, just to be there live. 

01:12:18
I was beside a guy who I was selling with, even though he didn't have a bet, sounded identical to Spanky. He was also from the same place as Spanky Got it. So he was like, why, what's, what are you celebrating for? I'm like, oh, I got a bet on the games. Like, wow, you could bet on this stuff Identical to our, our men, spanky, that's the accent, I guess, that they have over there in Jersey City. But love on that. Sorry about that, kanish, you'll get the next one, I'm sure, and then message it back to me and we'll share there. But, yeah, figured, I'd tell that story. Everyone, remember, when you get a bad beat, it sucks, but there's someone on the other end. So you know, when you get a good beat now like I'm good, I'm set for the year like all my bad beats. 

01:13:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now I'm sweeping them under the rug like, oh, whatever, I got that it's all gonna balance out over time, unless you're ben the better, in which case it just won't and you keep losing in horrific fashion. Yeah, once I saw eagles super bowl, I honestly thought about betting the chief super bowl just for a recreational ben bet the eagles yeah, oh my god, he does it, he does it he does it again. 

01:13:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The kid doesn't stop he. 

01:13:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He does it again. This has been Circles Off, episode number 89. Be sure to like and subscribe to the Circles Off YouTube channel. Rate and review five stars. We'll catch everyone next week bringing in some college basketball betting content over the remainder of February. Peace out everyone. 

01:13:37 - Regards from Italy (Caller)
This is what I love and can't stop loving Get wasted again. From 9 to7 in the morning I live for gambling, rolling blinds, feeling high, getting loaded, or take some piss and go to La La Land spending all my money on gambling and extreme high-priced pizza. But in the end it's all worth it. I like to live in my own world. Fuck regular life, fuck a 9-to-5 job and talk to enjoy every moment, every hour, every minute. And that's what I do on Fridays and Saturdays. Why should I take life so seriously? I just wanna do what I like to do the Incorporated Reality, cause I can't stand society. This is my own world. I just wanna win my bets. 

01:14:13 - Regards from Italy (Caller)
I think the whole system fucking sucks, Freaks on, E that's what we fuck man. 

01:14:17 - Regards from Italy (Caller)
Everybody's working their fucking ass off during the week, getting totally fucking stressed out. So what's wrong and what's right? I live for gambling. I live for hard styles. I live for glory. Come on, let's go. 

01:14:46 - Regards from Italy (Caller)
I just wanna win my bets. Extreme high price pizza, texan pizza goes to la la land, spending all my money on dope and extreme high-priced tickets. But in the end it's all worth it. I like to live in my own world. Fuck regular life, fuck a 9-to-5 job. I'm told to enjoy every moment, every hour, every minute. That's what I do on Fridays and Saturdays. Why should I take life so seriously? I just wanna do what I like to do, be it far from reality, cause I can't stand society. It's my own world. 

01:15:42 - Regards from Italy (Caller)
Come on, let's go, let's go Camaro.