00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off. Surprise, surprise, I have another beef. I'll tell you about it. We'll walk through what's happened this past week in Gambling Twitter. Producer Zach is going to tell us a betting-related story from his life in the past week as well, and I'll go through some tips to identify people who are just not worth following their advice in the gambling space. All that and more. Don't talk about it. Be about it. Come on, let's go. Welcome to circles off, episode number 92 here on the circles off youtube channel, part of the hammer betting network, rob pazola, joined by johnny from bet stamp. We're getting close to retiring the numbers, but 92. Local local toronto personality Jeff O'Neill. Jeff O'Neill the O-Dog. 

00:46
Who I actually listen to every day. I think he's a pretty hysterical guy, but people I've gotten like a few more comments in recent weeks about the numbers thing has to come to an end. 

00:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It is what it is. We should see if we get Jeff O'Neill on the pod. Oh yeah, he would do it. He's a former Leaf leaf, now currently does broadcasting for tsn for those who are uh unfamiliar but great personality as always. I would love to meet him. So 92. This is a rob and johnny episode. Rob, what are we going to discuss today? 

01:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
so can't skirt from it. Anyone who follows me on twitter consumes my other content. They've probably noticed a storyline in the last week which I will definitely talk about. The second episode we ever did of Circles Off was an episode on betting NHL first period numbers, but also on how to identify fraud bettors. In the space that was three years ago now Three I wasn't even part of BetStamp yet no, it wasn't three years ago. 

01:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, Three, that is. 

01:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Is it three, or am I just like Maybe? 

01:55 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
two, Two but like. Well, no, we started. Episode one was when Brady beat Mahomes in the bowl Three Super Bowls ago. 

02:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, that time does fly fast. I actually, I actually can't even believe it. 

02:08 - Zack Phillips (Other)
How far episode was february 21st 2021? 

02:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
oh so it's two years ago two years ago, but three super bowls ago. Yeah, three, three bowls ago. 

02:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's how we met, that's how we uh, that's how I'm gonna go for it from now on. Three super bowls ago, three bowls ago. 

02:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Holy, that is a time still does fly. Glad we still kept the podcast running two years later and, uh, thanks everyone who's listened from the start and anyone who's picked up uh, this podcast along the way and has joined us for the ride. We hope to essentially provide you with a lot of entertainment, obviously, but then you know betting education, betting tactics, betting tips, how to think about different things. Rob and I go through process. You know we're super happy to do this on a weekly basis and appreciate everyone listening. 

02:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And for those listening who are in Ontario, be sure to check out Pinnacle Sportsbook, proud sponsor of Circles Off, they are the world's sharpest sportsbook available to Ontario bettors. Find out what professional bettors have known for decades Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. 

03:07 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You must be 19 plus, not available to us residents now this pinnacle has some good stuff coming by the way, a bit in talks. They are, I think, hoping to launch a mobile app really soon, which is massive. Uh, right now the desktop works the best. Keep in mind with pinnacle, no matter who you are, no matter how sharp you are, no matter where you go, you're never going to get limited, always be able to play there. And they do have the posted limits. So, no matter what it is, you can bet whatever it says. They don't have this trader process. There's no approval process. If you want to bet $100 million on a game, you have that money to post up. In theory, you would be able to do that, would be able to do that. They're going to keep moving the number, but they'll allow you to re-bet over and over again. Great spot to have as one of your sports books. I would even call it a necessity. If you are in Ontario and Pinnacle is not one of your sports books, head on over, sign up now 100%, absolutely. 

03:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've been betting with Pinnacle for many years. I cannot recommend it enough. This week was an interesting week. So here's the guy who probably doesn't bet at Pinnacle. He doesn't, probably because of his location. But to be fair, backstory here. So caught in the crossfire a little bit this week because somebody received an email, don't know where it was, from Whatever site. Johnny the Greek, yanni the Greek Don't really. Whatever I'm going to call, I'm going to go with Johnny the Greek. Sorry to disrespect you. 

04:35 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I don't know if it makes you feel you know, makes you feel upset. 

04:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Different spelling G-I-A-N-N-I. 

04:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is not like a new a a new thing we've we've feuded before, partly because of the people he's been associated with in the past. 

04:49
But someone tagged myself and bet stamp on Twitter with an email of Johnny the Greek promoting himself at a tote website which was like number one in NFL betting, number one in this, number three in this number, and it was along the lines of like what is this bullshit type of situation, of situation and, uh, the bet stamp account responded to that, as we're known to do. 

05:11
One thing with the bet stamp account that I will say is that you know a lot of brands out there. They kind of like I don't want to say play nice, but they're looking for like social engagement and you know, being liked by everybody in the space. And with brand, with bet stamp, they're looking for like social engagement and you know, being liked by everybody in the space. And with brand, with Betstamp, there are like specific brand values that we want to have and one of them is is just like integrity and honesty. So sometimes the Betstamp social account might tweet something that not everybody likes and it's pretty rare in the space, but it's something that we. No, it's not rare in gambling Twitter to tweet something that not everybody likes and it's pretty rare in the space, but it's something that we no it's not rare in gambling Twitter to tweet something that not everybody likes. 

05:50 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Well, it's rare for a brand. 

05:51 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's rare for a brand? 

05:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, but anyways, johnny DeGreek saw something, saw this tweet and proceeded to film a video about this. What was the tweet? It was who believes this bullshit? Or something like that yeah, paraphrasing. 

06:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Everyone knows, by the way, I don't personally manage, neither do I. 

06:09
You can stop dming me like about the there's a team of people who have access to it and then and then and we'll be able to tweet and stuff like that, I'd stay off twitter. Obviously, I don't have my own personal twitter, so you won't. You won't catch my tweets or anything like that there, but if you do want to reach me, you can dm there and it will find its way to me so in fairness to to johnny here, I would say that, like if if any brand or any person comes after me, I tend to get defensive too. 

06:35
So we're gonna play the video or no? 

06:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
no, need no need, but this is the tweet right there. It's right above here. Yes, who is up? 174 units in 2023? Definitely not the guy pictured. I'll tell you that for free. Thumbs down, predatory scam, bullshit. 

06:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Okay, so he was claiming he was up 174 units in two months of 2023. Yes and yeah, a guy who was, historically, I guess, not been in that space, rob had been following for a while. I'll let him comment here. 

07:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes. So Johnny then goes and responds, films a video where he famously says don't talk about it, Be about it. 

07:17 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I noticed you put that in your bio. 

07:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I did put that in my Twitter bio. I honestly watched this video and I might've actually cried. I was laughing so hard. But in this video and I might've actually cried, I was laughing so hard. But in this video he brings a bag of cash out $50,000 in cash and challenges a bet stamp to a competition to book him. 

07:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
And I had to respond to this right away because Well, he was saying he would want us to book his action is what he's saying. So he wants us to take his bets, which, as you'll get into now, we obviously can't do legally. 

07:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We can't, and that's why I filmed the video. Bet stamp me, johnny. We're not licensed bookmakers. That's not what we do. We're a licensed affiliate. We send traffic to sportsbooks. We're very upfront and honest about that. But yeah, we can't just book a guy for $50,000. That's not the way that the world works. 

08:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So, despite the fact whether it's value or not and whether we would actually do it or not, which I think we both agree. We would do that if legally permitted, like if there was no legal restriction, to telling me like, okay, I get to back to back. 

08:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I disagree with you, but I'll tell you why in a second I would give him a specific I would get. 

08:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I would. I would have to make it against a specific line, set exactly, but absolutely. If you're telling me, like he's what he said, this set up an account. He's like. Talking as if it's going to be like we got a, we got a, like a local book making business which we absolutely do not pisola pph. He's saying set up an account, give me the login, whatever, whatever he was saying he's like, so I could connect my bot and crush you. 

08:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, which is like part of that which was nauseating. He's like the fact that he wants everybody to know that he has a bot for one. 

08:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, just like for the, just like for the like. 

08:59 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Yeah, dude, dude For the clout of having it also doesn't matter Anyone, by the way. 

09:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
if you want a betting bot, you want a bot that could connect. You can get that. You just have to pay a little bit of money, but you can get that. By the way, it's not an impressive thing. 

09:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's not challenging, but yes. So obviously if it was into a sharp sports book, pinnacle, for example, in Ontario I know Johnny's not located in Ontario, but yeah, if I could hook him up with a Pinnacle account, beauty, I'd do it. So I tried to do something with. Circa, reached out to Benson, see if we could figure something out. For sure I'd love to do some sort of competition. 

09:35
Now it's tricky because we're going to get into this a little bit more. If you look at like play history from johnny, it will appear that he wins and I first noticed this back in 2015 when he was with the philly godfather crew and a lot of it is just fake lines that don't exist. Like what I will say about a lot of touts that are in the space and I think you were getting at this when we interviewed fezik a few weeks back as well is that I think a lot of these touts are actually winners themselves, like they know how to bet on sports and they know how to win. Johnny, the greek, has been in the space long enough where he knows how to win betting on sports no, I'm sure. 

10:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I'm sure he's aware, yes, of what a winning number is and what closing line value is and what a good position is. I'm sure he's aware of what a winning number is and what closing line value is and what a good position is. I'm sure he's aware of that. Will he be able to do that and sustain that on his own is to be determined. 

10:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
TBD, what I would say is that his clients are not gonna win, no doubt, and that's where it comes down to it. So, like don't get fooled into thinking that because someone's a winner, that because they put up a pick package, that you're going to win just by tailing it as well. And we'll get into that a little bit more. But this escalated over the course of the week. I filmed a video that I honestly, you know, I I talked to some people around me and they're like it was funny, maybe you shouldn't have filmed it. Sometimes I get these ideas in my head that I'm going to just be like a clown and do stuff like this. 

11:04
There was a bunch of responses to Johnny's video of him dumping the money out that were like pinpointing like an area of the cash that like wasn't proper and they were saying that they were fake bills. And they weren't fake bills. I mean, I'm pretty confident that they weren't, but there was enough shred of doubt in one of the bills itself to make a good video, that I could make a good video. And my God, did this ever trigger the guy? And that's kind of what I was going for. Like I'm a shit disturber, I I'll admit it. But he then filmed a follow-up to this and he was just like you know. He was frazzled Like he's shaking in the video. He said that he deposited the 50 K from the day before at the bank, which was a little bit unusual, whatever and that he had another stack of cash and he was spilling the bills everywhere, which was funny. But that's kind of the recap of the entire situation. 

11:57
And then Philly Godfather kind of got into the situation. For background, johnny the Greek used to run one of the accounts on Philly Godfather's website years ago called NFAC Moves the no Fucking Around Crew, nfac, okay, and they had for whatever reason they had a falling out. I don't know the details of that, whatever. Two scumbags working together. Of course you can have a falling out. Someone's gonna have a falling out at one point. But um, philly godfather came to his defense, came in and then we started getting into it. I watched this guy have a mental breakdown on twitter over the philly godfather this weekend. He must have tagged me in a post every five minutes. I'm not even exact. You think this is an exaggeration. Not only that, like it was, it was like to borderline obsessive and then every single person that responded to him telling him you know where to go. He would just respond with a video of himself like check me out on netflix no, no, no check. 

13:03 - Zack Phillips (Other)
So it was a thread. So first he would reply with just like no con. He would be like check out me and my crew on netflix and it'd be a link to the the doc on netflix, and then the follow-up tweet would just be like a minute and a half screen recorded video from the show. 

13:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, no context, nothing. Or him at like the bet rivers casino in philadelphia placing some bets at the kiosk that like his guys recorded for him, like he paid someone to record that and he thought like by the way, I'm gonna do amazing ones that I fucking cried a laugh at. 

13:33 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He had one where he's like I sent it to you, I don't need. I didn't even read all of them? 

13:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
oh, the one about the american turf. 

13:39 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's like this canadian thinks he can come on to american he capitalized American turf. This guy thinks he can come onto American turf. I'm like, what does he do? That one was so funny. There was one other one that I was just like when I read it. I'm like, what is this guy saying? 

13:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was. But yeah, basically the guy's having a mental breakdown. I'm sweating a golf outright on Sunday. Kurt Kitayama, I live bet him and I'm just like getting tagged in all these Philly Godfather tweets. I'm like, okay, this guy's going to keep going and it's always like the same four or five accounts that respond to him his burner accounts these good things get no one get For a guy that's got 30,000 followers on Twitter. You think that one of his tweets would maybe get like a thousand views, views like some engagement. 

14:25 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
get no engagement whatsoever, tells you all you need to know, but it's it. What did you see? Is he hired a private investigator also? 

14:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
this is what I wanted to get. Now he thinks he's got all this dirt. So for those of you who've listened to circles off since the beginning or even at the halfway point, or you've watched circles off on youtube, you'll know that I'm pretty much an open book. So he thinks that he's uncovered now. Like that, I'm pretty much an open book. So he thinks that he's uncovered now, like Rob Pizzola used to run a tout service this and that it's like, yeah, of course, like what, everybody knows that, like literally everybody, I speak openly about it. And then it's like, oh, betstamp is sending traffic to sports. Like it's like, yeah, like we actually post it directly in the app. Like there's a blurb that says that and you know a lot of his facts are wrong. He's like, oh, you know the, you know you're getting a cut of players losses and whatever. A lot of the facts that he's posting are wrong. But all these things that he thinks he's uncovered and his like investigative team that he has have uncovered yeah, he's like I. 

15:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We had the full investigation and years ago rob actually ran a tout site that sold losing picks to bettors and I was like, congrats, you may have listened to one episode of this or anything like that. And then he also. He thought he discovered that BetStamp was an affiliate site, as if this podcast isn't sponsored by a sports book. We would value you sign up and also sign up as many sports books as possible, so you can get the best odds. 

15:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It actually really worked against him, though. Betstamp picked up a ton of followers. People literally were responding to the thread saying I will happily sign up to sportsbooks through BetStamp to support a free app. By the way, it's a free line comparison app that's out there. This is the way we monetize and the way that we keep it free. I think a lot of people find use in it. But yeah, it just sent off a series of you know chaos, yeah, yeah, and and and I. 

16:12
I watched the netflix special that he's talking about. What is he talking about? He's talking about the phil donahue story tim uh phil tim donahue story. Tim don Donahue, nfl referee, nfl. Like here we go, I can't even speak anymore. 

16:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
NBA referee. 

16:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jerome Boger Fixing games, allegedly, so to speak. Wasn't it confirmed? Yeah well, he still denies it. He kind of Donahue says that his knowledge of the team's is why he called in bets on the games. Like he would say like oh, I know that this team matches up well against them, they're going to win, or this is going to be a fast pace, or whatever. He does not admit to altering the game. 

16:55 - Zack Phillips (Other)
He does say, though I'll say I watched it somewhat recently. He does say that they didn't fix the game for it to become a winner, yeah, but he knew the way that the NBA wanted that game wrapped and so like I actually kind of understood what he was saying and like didn't fully disagree, because it's definitely reality to a certain degree, of how they want things to be done in certain games of certain teams. I wouldn't say that that's not happening or that doesn't happen. 

17:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He just kind of said, like you knew, yes, so the central figure in this documentary is jimmy batista, who went by the sheep or baba or whatever and he used to be run with the animals crew that philly godfather ran. I watch his documentary, philly godfather's. 

17:41
In it he's like makes a cameo where he's sitting at a bar watching the game for about a second like he's literally a prop he's sitting at a bar watching the game for about a second, like he's literally a prop in the and that that's what he's he's quoting as like oh, check out me on on netflix. It's like, dude, it's embarrassing, like you're in the background watching a celtics game, sitting at a bar and like, like I don't know what this is intended to prove. Anyways, the backstory is this 2015. I worked at. The score was working. 

18:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You're just gonna tell the thing about how you joined prediction machine. Oh, I can't even tell that as well. This is he are. Not only has rob mentioned that he has run this site, he has said this so many times that it's actually. I would be shocked if anyone here listening to me right now is like thank you, you, johnny, so he doesn't tell the story again. That is how many times Rob's mentioned this. There's no way that this is breaking news. 

18:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But hilarious Deep down. I kind of hope that he did hire an investigative team. I hope that he actually took money out of his pocket to hire an investigative team Just uncovered by my investigative team. 

18:43
I have no secrets to hide, no-transcript. Back in 2015, I was not a winning better, or I was on the verge of becoming a winning better. I had gone from pure square to starting to develop models, starting to find some success betting on sports, and I was in the process of learning from people on Twitter, and the people that I hated the most went by a group called C-Ville C the letter C, ville, and that stood for contrarian ville, and it was a group of like 25 guys who were basically glorified assholes on Twitter who used to just go after everybody in the space, and I hated that because they used to go after me at one point, probably for good reason, cause I, you know, I probably spewed a lot of nonsense for a long time, but eventually I started to learn from these people and targets were always Philly Godfather, rj Bell, other touts in the space, johnny running the NFAC account, and I'm like why are these guys always? You know, what is it with this specific crew that they're picking on these guys all the time? And I really started to dig deeper and just do my own research on it. So I would try to, I would subscribe to a package and I would see what the records that they kept on the website were, and I'd try to match them up every single day. 

20:35
So I'd subscribe to a package, I'd get a play and then I'd immediately go and I'd look at don best screen and be like, no, okay, this play doesn't exist, it's gone, it's just steam. It steamed five minutes ago. But they're gonna. They've released it at this number. Are they gonna track it at this number? They do so when I, when I say stuff like okay, just because a tout wins, like first of all, I have no idea if they actually made these bets, if they're part of this crew connected, if they were getting them through accounts that they had planted with other people, I don't know, I can't tell you that, but that crew was not giving out real lines, which is the definition of fraud. 

21:13 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But did you have to hire an investigative team? 

21:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I did not because I was my own investigator. I mean, at that time I was not wealthy, I wasn't making a lot of money. I was like getting into DFS making a little bit of money there, had a good paying job, but like no, I did not, Nor would I have considered hiring it. I did my own investigation or reached out to other people. There was that Guess what else this group used to do. They used to release free picks on Twitter every day Free play this, this and this. If the free play won, you know where it showed up, the record. It showed up in the record keeping on the website. If the free pick lost, it was nowhere to be found Because it was deleted. 

21:53
It was there, but it's not in the website tracking. There's that. What else did this crew used to do? Well, when you release plays and you don't attach any units to them, everyone can just assume that they're probably one unit or something like that. Right Now, when you release a superfecta on a horse race and you're playing, whatever the amount of combinations is, typically your base unit's like 20 cents, right? But one of the superfectas that someone released on the site won massive payout because you're picking the top four horses to come in in a race and they counted that as a 24 unit play made the profit for the entire year 24 units on the super. 

22:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yes, you could win thousand units it. 

22:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's. It's how they could promote like a hundred dollar better is up this amount of money no one would ever play. That's crazy like. Think about betting 24 times the amount on a horse race, like super long shot play. Then you would bet on just like a college basketball game and then tracking it like that, like no one would do that. And that's that's how all these scams are perpetuated. Right, and you log on and you see, oh, hundred dollar better is up thirty eight thousand dollars this year. It's like, no, they're obviously not every season. Better knows that, but the public can't. And then it's like oh, go, check out. We keep our records up on our website. 

23:21
The whole thing is a fucking sham. Okay, these people don't even exist for one. The ones that do exist are just names of people that used to run with this crew years ago that are no longer associated with them. There was some guy named Penguin that reached out to me many years ago and he's or seal, philly seal, and he's like just want you to know, cause I was roasting Philly Godfather at the time. He's like I haven't run with this crew for many, many years. Like they're just using my time. He's like I haven't run with this crew for many, many years. Like they're just using my, my name, like you've created an alias and pretending like it's me and I don't run with them and it's just a one big, perpetual scam I do have a question for you. 

24:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Go for it multiple times when I was reading, when I just like would scroll through and see the Gianni, the Greek stuff coming chirping, you People would comment and say this oh yeah, what happened to that money in the car at Starbucks? Oh hey, what happened to the Starbucks 200K? Something like that. It would come up like one in every six comments, okay, so do you know what this is? I do Explain it to me. 

24:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, so Gianni the Greek used to run under many different aliases before Vegas Runner was one. At the time when probably when he was at his like peak Vegas Runner, lots of people knew Vegas Runner. He was doing media everywhere, whatever, and he ran as ace as well. If you go to Google and type in Vegas Runner scam or Vegas Runner fraud, you're gonna find. 

24:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Someone made a page Vegas runner fraud. 

24:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is a WordPress blog from like. What is it? 

24:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
2010? Holy, a guy was so rattled he made up a full website to expose this thing. Guy must have scammed him hard. 

25:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So the story is that Johnny was given a bunch of money from like an investor. Don't know what the investment was or whatever, but apparently he ran into a Starbucks it was, it was picked packages oh, it was from a picks. Okay, ran into a Starbucks, get a Spro or something like that, and he came back out and the 200K wasn't in his car anymore. He just like fucked off with it. Like. So he's saying like obviously he just took it. Likely. I mean, if we live in a world of we're sports bettors, we live in a world of probabilities Okay, I don't know the full details of if he, knowing how he carries himself out and he's appearing on video with like 50K stacks of cash, like a complete clown. By the way, like, even if you have that kind of money, you know who's appearing on videos with 50K cash and stuff like that People are trying to market themselves. Okay, let's be real, right, like the responses to that thread are like oh, pizzola doesn't have any money, he can't film, a video without. 

26:07
It's like, yeah, okay, sure, I would not stoop that low to do that, but in a world of probabilities, you're going to the bank. He was going to the bank, apparently to deposit this money. Guess he saw starbucks and said, hey, I'll stop for coffee. 

26:27 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He was on the way to the bank. He was on the way to the. No come on. 

26:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean he was on Thursday when he recorded that video. Apparently he beat Thursday night to Friday. He deposited the 50K in the bank as well. 

26:37 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's claiming that he was on the way to the bank to deposit a large amount of other people's money. Then he stopped in the Starbucks, left Money's gone. Sorry, no refunds, that's the story. And he was on his way to the bank. 

26:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And he was on his way to the bank Next stop. I don't know if it was the next stop or if he had any other errands to run along the way. All I know is if I had 200 or 250K in the car and I was intending to deposit it into the bank, you know what? My first stop would be? The bank. It would be be the bank. 

27:04 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I definitely wouldn't leave, I definitely wouldn't leave that money in the car there's. 

27:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's zero chance I probably would have hit the starbucks on the way out of the bank afterwards here it is. 

27:13 - Zack Phillips (Other)
He had taken all the money from the fund to deposit in a bank and then transfer it to a bunch of offshore books. With about 250k in two bags, he drives into town and stops, stops at starbucks for a coffee before all before going to the bank, leaving the money in the car. Driving away he hears that something is wrong and one of his tires is flat. Press for time, he claims he then drove home on just the rim to change the car. At home he tells his wife to take out the two bags of money and she tells him there are no bags on the floor where he said he put them. 

27:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
On the floor of what the car. So you see how this all makes sense. 

27:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So his wife was in the car with him. No, no, I think he's saying he drove home. Yeah, because he's in a panic now. He's got a flat tire with like 250K in the car. 

28:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He drove home just the rim on the tire. 

28:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Bro, that doesn't work. This is doesn't work. This is the funniest story. Did this? This guy not have a working trunk? Why did he put it on the? Why? Why would you ever? When? 

28:14 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
have you ever put I've done cash pickups before. This story is hilarious again. This is literally. A kid would write this and then be like this never happened it's like a kid not doing his homework. 

28:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know, tell too many details exactly that's exactly it, right, it's like no, no, we just need to know what happened. Like it could have easily just been like fuck I, you know, I went into the Starbucks to do money. Somebody took the money out of my car. This is like every detail of his life here. Why would you anyways? Probabilistically speaking, you can never say with certainty, but the likelihood that he, you know, took off, he kept this money, I'd say, is probably high. 

28:53 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Would you agree? I mean, like I'll let the, I'll let anyone listening make their own decision If that's the story again, and we don't know his side of the story. But if the story is, he had 250 K. He was about to deposit on the bank the next stop he was on the way, but before he went to go get a quick coffee left the money in the car, came out it was gone. He had a flat tire, drove, didn't even realize the money was gone, drove home all the way home on one rim, yeah, instead of going to the bank and then realized when he got home he didn't even realize. His wife realized Correct, If that's actually the story, then I mean I don't know what to say. 

29:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Everyone's got to make their own, but but I like again, this is this is a wordpress site from 2010. 

29:33 - Zack Phillips (Other)
Okay so no way that's the story. 

29:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be the guy like I don't want to be the fake news guy, but there have been people that have confirmed that the money story is true. Now the details I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. But also, when I got home, even on the flat tire, probably the first thing I would do myself is get out, grab the money bring it inside when you got home. 

29:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What do you mean? When you got home, as soon as you got back in the then? Money should never be in the car unattended. You don't have to tell me that. I don't have to tell you that. 

30:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I know I need to know what the this is funny. 

30:09 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This is actually a good story. I'm glad we got. I at least get a laugh out of this. 

30:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I need to know what the Starbucks order was, because it depends on what it was the line, because it could have taken him like 10 minutes. In there you got a latte. 

30:22 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You know P in the video he puts them, the money is clearly grouped in ten thousand dollar bands. Clearly, very clearly. Okay, he takes the money out of a bag. There's four bands and then a loose amount that's obviously not ten thousand, slightly under ten thousand. He's like there's 50k right here, this is probably 50k. It's like just say here's about 50k, you don't like? 

30:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
he's like, or just elastic it up, he's literally hilarious, or just don't do't do that, because it's really dumb thing to do. 

30:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
The funniest, and then he also pulled it out of a plastic bag. He's like I got a brown paper bag right here and then he pulls out like a plastic bag. It doesn't even matter, but it's so funny. 

31:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
All right, if I wanted some revenue agency to be coming after me. This is exactly what I would be doing. 

31:05 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This after me. This is exactly what I would be doing. 

31:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's so funny, like I would be making public videos and posting them of all the cash that I'm, I'm, I have on hand. Great, great idea, genius idea. But yes, that's the backstory. So people want to know, like, why, where's the beef from? I'm not. I'm a guy that, like I wear my heart on my sleeve, like if I see something that bothers me, I'm going to talk about it. That's why I love having this podcast. It's a platform for me to talk about what's bothering me, but also just to share my thoughts on anything. 

31:41
And for a long time these people have gotten away with too much. This guy's on a fucking UFC broadcast, like UFC broadcast, and you know what people are upset that what was it? The dana white contender series that he's doing? People are actually upset because they can't fade his picks anymore. That that's what I got out of this entire thread. They're like, johnny, when are you going to be back on DWCS? We need some picks to fade. This guy was the most epic fade of all time. He's literally given out minus 500 favorites that are losing every card. Like it's almost impossible to have a run that bad, like, probabilistically speaking, again to lose a favorite that high, every single card regularly and then have the balls to tell people afterwards. 

32:31
He's up 173 units and on top of that 74, that those fights don't matter as much as the bigger ones. 

32:38 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Like the money's not the same it's a joke anyways, enough out of this guy. Honestly never want to hear this guy's name again on anything. I have a feeling I will, but I I don't even want you know me by nature like I don't care, I don't want to. 

32:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, I, I don't want to invest the time into like keeping this going right. Like a lot, I get a lot of dms like, oh yeah, like what are you gonna do with with johnny, we're gonna set this up, whatever? It's like no, I don't. If we do some content for it, i'm'm down. But even then it's just a fucking headache. Like it's the same as the Ben the Better competition, right, it's like it's just I'm already. The one thing I wish I had more of in life is just time. 

33:19 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Just a rose. 

33:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Time. Like you know, I spent the other day. I spent like two hours going to a golf simulator. Like throws off my entire day and my arm too, but it throws off like I don't. 

33:29 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I just do not have the time to deal with this shit if we did it, if, if you wanted to do this obviously I'm not going to be involved in this, but if you wanted to do it on the hammer betting network and make some content about it and actually like have a content style where, like he has to bet into circa and like a regulated bookmaker which he would have to bet into was, we wouldn't be able to take his action if we figure out some way to do it, yeah, I would be down. I think that would be entertaining. I'd be like I'd be interested in watching it. 

33:55 - Zack Phillips (Other)
But the reason I don't think that this is even worth it and have no interest is like. 

34:00
Obviously I'm probably going to be the one involved in production and I agree with rob, this is like a ridiculous amount of no, but like the thing is that even if we even like I'm gonna include myself in here like I feel like we've got your back, like whatever, but even if we win, we can't win. And it became so evident when that guy replied philly godfather and yanni replied to 800 tweets being like bet stamp is taking money from people who lose, and then all the comments would just be like they're an affiliate, they get money from signups, not losses. And then he'd be like you're proving my point. And then it's like yeah, yeah, there's just no win. 

34:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're just fighting against no way senile old like philly godfather could have spent sunday, you know, fucking taking his grandkids to the park or something like that. Maybe great, great grandkids I don't know how old he is and instead he spent every waking hour of the day typing a tweet to me. 

34:54
Yeah, but now we're spending time talking about this, but I like I actually do like this and you know there'll be the critics of of this will be like why do you give these guys any attention? Again, I have my own platform to talk about whatever I want. This is stuff that's like I'm living in my life right now. I like to share it, I like to talk about it and I don't think anyone who watches this is going to go and buy picks from the philly godfather or johnny the greek no here's the one thing I will say with competitions like this, and this is what I want to get back to at the beginning. 

35:27
It's a small sample size. No, it's not, even I don't even care about that. 

35:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
But, like if Jeff Benson I know you're listening set this up, let's let you. You guys are going to make some cash off this too, at the old circus sports book in Las Vegas, nevada. 

35:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So my, my thing is this I actually would put money down on Johnny the Greek to win, like here. Here's why he is. He's not an idiot like there. There's an element of ego to all these guys. Right, like his own picks are shit, like they're not gonna. 

35:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So you're saying like he's to partner with someone and be like yeah, yeah, sure, let's do it for this, of course, yeah there's always a chance of that. 

36:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean he's he's clearly has some connections in the space to winning betters. I don't deny that he does have that bot that he said can win automatically as well Can he hook it up to Circa. I don't know I don't know. Jim, I don't know, but my whole thing is like don't buy picks from these people. They're like don't, they're con artists. These people are con artists. That's what I'm trying to get at. That's the whole thing, right, right. So whether or not he wins or whatever, is irrelevant to me. 

36:34 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
What, what they're doing as a whole is fucking low-life bullshit, is what it is, that's it you know, if you saw, if you saw yanni right now, do you tell that to his face? I, I would. Yeah, you could square him up right now I would honestly like I, I'm not. 

36:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know me, I'm not a confrontational guy, you could square him up, yes or? No, you know I'm not gonna square him. Listen, philly godfather would knock me out for sure. That guy's like a boxing trainer or whatever. You know he. He's beefed up. I don't know if it's roids or whatever. Hgh, a little bit of both. 

37:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's on the joey toon special right there oh, now he calls out toons dude, come on I know toons traders listen to this too. 

37:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They message me after every episode I hope it gets back to him, but no, like I, I that's not it. I've met philly godfather and johnny before I met them in Vegas. I was with Dinky Rest in peace, dink and Toons. And I was with Toons at a Vegas like it was like a tout convention. It was the weirdest thing. It was like Preston was there, it was super contest, signups were happening and there was some sort of convention where all these panels there was, these panels that were breaking down like different college football topics. Todd Furman spoke, kelly in Vegas spoke, a bunch of people were speaking on these panels. 

38:01
But I remember very clearly because Philly Godfather wore these sunglasses that were like the size of his head. The frames could not have been like the could not have been bigger size of his head. The frames could not have been like the could not have been bigger. And somebody took a picture of it and posted it to twitter and he was getting roasted and he was saying that they were the exact set of frames that robert de niro wore in casino and he was really proud of it. And I'm like, dude, you look like an idiot who cares what robert de niro wore. Robert de niro pulled it off in casino. You look like a stooge and uh, I met Johnny there as well, but it was a. 

38:36
It was a big tout fest at that time. But yeah, I've, I've met these people at some point or another. That it doesn't matter to me, like I'm gonna speak my mind, no matter what the thing is. These guys know what they're doing. Like they can, they can, they can try to discredit me. It's just a deflection of what they're doing. At the end of the day, that would be my, if I, if I was, if I was out there to take money from other people what? And people come after me. I'm gonna try to discredit them. It's like a common tactic. It happens in law, in a court of law. All the time. It's like let's discredit this witness. What has this witness done in their life before? That's the tactic. 

39:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So I get it. I couldn't help, but my eyes are wandering to the tv here. Zach pull this up a little more and zach pulled up the story of the starbucks. He starts to get very defensive and I start to get very suspicious. This is the guy vegas runners partner got yeah, he got stiff. 

39:34
Then vegas runner snaps. You'll get your affidavit first thing in the morning, but I'm done with this. I don't want you calling me coming to my house and I'll tell the other guy the same thing. I drive to his house and thought his window says I told you what does he say? Oh, through his window oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. 

39:50
I drove to his house and through his window, I told you that you'll get your affidavit and I'm going to tell you one time. And I'm going to tell this other guy one time Don't call me, don't come over, I'm done with this. Not only did he lose $250,000, in money, he said the classic thing that you would do. I'm going to tell you one time. 

40:10 - Zack Phillips (Other)
It's done, it's done. 

40:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know where the money. 

40:12 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I don't know where it went. I told you what happened to the money. It's done. 

40:16 - Zack Phillips (Other)
It's done. Did you see the part above it too? So, they tried to get money back, couldn't, couldn't find anybody to give them a loan to cover it, and so they went to one of their biggest investors which it's kind of funny, like the way that they just outlined the investors and they asked him and they told him what happened and he basically told him to go fuck himself. So I was like I'm not giving you any more money Actually totally natural reaction, right, you lose the money yourself. 

40:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You should be on the hook for it. Everyone else can go fuck themselves. See, I'm going to tell you one time, one time. 

40:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It's my last time I'm going to tell you this. All right, zach zach, you said you had a betting story you wanted to mention yeah, just uh. 

40:55 - Zack Phillips (Other)
One of the things johnny loves and like has talked about on here a lot is the group betting and like the ability to bet with your buddies and stuff. Uh, friday night, myself, one of the other guys in the office, are hanging out watching basketball just having drinks like with some of our buddies and uh, there was like a huge boost on uh yokich first basket. I think it was like plus 850 or something like that. 

41:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's great odds for yokich great odds, normally booked around to the 350 to 400, and that would be not a playable price. 

41:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But but when they do that, do you think that the books know someone else is going to get the first shot? 

41:31 - Zack Phillips (Other)
did you consider that uh, no, actually that wasn't part of my handicapping process. I forgot that the books might know great, great play. 

41:38
So you see you guys bang that, yeah. So I hit that for like 150 bucks and all four all four of us watching had that and we all hit it. So we're sitting there watching nuggets win first tip, very easy, like no sweat at all. Yokich runs down with the ball. They give it to you because she runs down with the ball, dishes off, cuts through the middle, gets it back, lay up, bang. That starts it. But then the guys were with and like josh, like josh and I like know what we're doing, or whatever. But these guys are like holy shit, we just want a ton of money, like let's throw some dgem bets down. 

42:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So like, they all toss like, so they all won like close to a grand on it or no? 

42:11 - Zack Phillips (Other)
they all had. They probably had like 10, 15 bucks, I think josh had more, but yeah it's a good night, right? So then that happens, that opens it, and then they're like all right, let's hit another first basket in the next game, the t wolves game. So these guys are like no boost just dgen, no, so hold on. 

42:26
So these guys are doing some research and josh and I are looking around uh to find prices. What we find there's a boost. Anthony edwards first basket is like plus six, uh 700, something like that, I think. Plus 700, it was like okay, but josh and I found it was like way better than price we could find elsewhere. So whatever, dunk it again. Plus another 150 on this one and uh, t wolves lose the tip off and we're like, oh fuck, like, based on the way that they came down the floor, like this is not good. Dishes across the. Whoever came down with the ball dishes across the shooting guard wasn't looking. Anthony edwards runs in steals. The ball goes on. A half court run dunks it. Nobody even behind him. We cashed back to back in the span of 15 minutes nuts man, we're running around jumping up and down. 

43:16
It's just like it's cool to like be able to do that with the, with your boys and then after that these guys were like what else can we bet on? And so josh and I started showing them like you can bet on method of first basket, who which team's gonna score next basket, and like this obviously is very uncommon, but we went on a run like I've never hit more, you hit more dude, we were hitting like next basket, next like clippers, three-pointer, next basket plus 850, putting like 20 bucks. 

43:44
And then it would just be like it was like the craziest dj bet. So we're, it's like it's like 12 o'clock, like 12 30 at this point, and we're just like hammering them coming down. And we went on a run where, I swear to god, we went like six in a row and then it was basically just like free rolled after that basically of everything else, and we just still kept hitting. And then that was when I messaged rob at like 12 45 and was like is pinnacle the sharpest on tennis? 

44:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
he's like yes, big yeah. 

44:12 - Zack Phillips (Other)
We just started hitting tennis bets and we were up till four in the morning hitting like tennis bets and shit. 

44:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was. It was electric, that was. I was wondering why that message came. 

44:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
It came to me See and if you just did that by yourself it wouldn't have been as fun man. You got to because you need, has to be social. You got to be around the boys or girls, whatever. You got to be around the friends so that when it, when you do get that thing, you could actually, like, really appreciate it he didn't tell the full story, though he was no, no, he was he was tweeting and then the first reply to every tweet was fixed game result yokich, first basket plus 850. 

44:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And he was just bombing those fixed game results over and over. How would they not like? Elon man, you got to get rid of these bots first. It actually the fixed game ones are not even the worst ones. Now. Now there's these porn bots. Yeah, these like explicit, the images are blurry and it's like oh, do you want to come play with me? And whatever. And it's like please, like, stop. The bots have to go. 

45:13 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I saw a hilarious one with the bot, with the porn bot, and there's this guy tweeted something about the Leafs and like how they were in a bad state, and then the porn bot replied. And he just replied and he's like do you really think this is the most appropriate time? 

45:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Those, the porn bots, are too much, man, they're too much. But yeah, I mean that's. That was a pretty good story. 

45:33 - Zack Phillips (Other)
But yeah, I mean that's that was a pretty good story. Yeah, it was. Just it was fun is something johnny's talked about on here, like how fun it is to bet with the group, and I've done it before but I just never had like a night where everything just went, just never clicked. Yeah, it just like had never gone like that well and so it was just like an electric run kind of thing. 

45:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So yeah, it's fun. The best time for that for me is march, madness yeah, no joke yeah, like I would say, march madness is the funnest. 

45:57
Those two days, thursday, friday, are probably the best betting days of the entire year. Just because, if you want to like degen, in those two days there is like action, action, action, action, action. You could dunk a whole bunch of parlays. You can bet player props if you want, but you don't even need to. It's more just like live betting in play part, always like roll it over and just like it's. It's a full day sweat where everything happens. In march madness, you guys know, like the actual tournament itself, despite the fact that it's still college basketball. It just hits a little bit different, like the fact that the guys are like even, just like just the whole, like bang, like everything that just happens with it the commentary when a team comes back, buzzer beaters, the ones, the seating, just the seating alone is like so much fun. 

46:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So march madness, if you guys are looking at dgen, that's the time, no joke this canadian thinks he's gonna go on American turf and bet March madness American turf, no. 

46:54 - Zack Phillips (Other)
I, I love. 

46:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
March madness, it's great. Um, I want to end the podcast on on one thing let's go, which is I got a lot of messages this week, obviously the, the, the, the Johnny, pgf stuff. But people would message me and be like, hey Rob, like new to the space, me, and be like, hey Rob, like new to the space, how can you tell who's BSing, who's real? Um, you know, they've heard me say on B on a podcast before I can tell within like a couple of tweets whether this guy's going to be a long-term winner or not. And that's probably true for like 90% of people, if not more, and the same for you, uh, johnny. I mean we both have like a, a cadence for like this person wins or loses. And I'll just give you my own personal experience of when I was going through the process of going from a pure square, recreational better to a somewhat educated, winning better, and I talked about those Seville guys earlier who I couldn't stand, but they would constantly be calling out other people. Eventually you're going to get to a point where you're going to find someone who that you can ascertain is a sharp person period For me. 

48:01
That was a bunch of different people At the time. There was a rest in peace. Groovin Mahoovin was one of those guys. There was a few others, but you can get to a point where it's like I know that this person is a winner in this space. Other people vouch for him. I can see Rufus is one of those guys, spanky is one of those guys nowadays right, I'm leaving lots of names out, but these are people that have built up a large following, where there are people who can corroborate that they know what they're talking about. And I would pay very, very close attention to these people and when they tweeted and when other people would agree with them, I put them on a list or I follow them. When other people disagreed with them or I constantly noticed that these, this same group of people, was calling out tweets from from someone else, I'd pay attention to that tweet and I'd say, okay, why does this not make sense? It makes sense to me and I'd start asking questions to people why doesn't it make sense? You can do this over time and, by process of elimination or by like some sort of confirmation bias, so to speak, develop a group of trustworthy people that you can learn from, and there's a lot. 

49:21
It's challenging in the space now, because if you Google sports betting terms right, how to do this? When should I hedge my bets? Google, when should I hedge my bets? You're going to get a bunch of SEO content that's been written probably by someone who's getting paid pretty cheaply, coming out of school that's just copying from another site to rank. Well, you're not going to get good content consistently. 

49:41
Twitter is the same thing, right. There's the vast majority of people who are selling themselves as winners or marketing themselves as winners are not, but you can be easily persuaded into believing that. It's very hard to filter what's real and what's not, but you can usually do so. When there's like one larger tweet that, collectively, the sharper audience is either approving of it or disapproving of it, you can usually filter that out as fluff and I don't. You know I was going to cite a specific tweet for this show, but I won't. It doesn't matter. The tweet itself doesn't matter, because I don't want to. You know, I want to do this in a more positive way, where I'm just not laying waste to somebody who maybe doesn't deserve to get laid waste to. 

50:41
But there's a lot of times where it's challenging in the space to determine what's real, what's good advice and what's not, and it takes work to filter through that, but it's easily done and there's countless examples of people that went from being pure square to actual sustainable winning bettors just by consuming the right content. There's a few examples in the Twitter space now. I mentioned him back in episode two and that's where I want to go back to because I mentioned his specific name Jim Viviano, random Twitter guy who used to message me questions all the time, now makes a good living betting. There's another guy on Twitter named Alex Bartlett Same thing Just tell people consume the right content, you'll have no problems. And it's easily done. And I'm not saying you're going to turn into a pro, better or whatever, but if your goal is to try to win in the long run or be profitable in the long run, it is a really good resource. If you can learn to just get yourself away from the stuff that doesn't matter, if that makes sense no, completely. 

51:46 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Uh, well said, on that, I think make a really good point with the the whole. Oh, if one group of people that you think is sharp is disagreeing with something, then you got to like look at it. But what I would even say further is there does need to be some sort of like brain used on your own end when you're looking through stuff. So, like, one of my biggest pet peeves right now on on like twitter or social media or news, is the whole like groupthink idea where those jam one narrative down your throat and then, like the mob, it's almost like the headline, the headline cast right. Like you'll read a headline and then, like, based on the headline, make your opinion without actually like forget about even reading the article. Reading the article is the bare minimum, but like and then actually looking and seeing like some contrarian view stuff like that, before making a call. 

52:30
Right now, for the most part, people seemingly just make a call. So, with what rob's saying, like I agree it's a great way to like figure out the direction to go in. But at the end of the day, like you really can tell a lot from a person or even just one tweet. Like you see a regular tweet thread that might have like 200 comments. Like read all those comments and then see the people that are agreeing with it, people that are disagreeing with it. Go through all that. But then also just do a little bit of research on your own. Make sure that you're looking at the story for what it is. Don't necessarily just look at a tweet and then be like, oh, this guy's getting a lot of engagement, he has a lot of followers. This must be right. 

53:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's probably a bad strategy all in Just going through episodes that we've done here and you have to take a leap of faith to trust that we know what we're doing. But I don't work a day job. I'm a co-owner of a couple of companies. I make my living from betting sports and have for a while. If you just go episode by episode and listen to certain things I don't like to say, like, always apply this as a rule, but general rules of thumb of people who reference bets without talking about the VIG on the bet, who buy half points, who say don't play a specific, don't play anything over minus 160 like arbitrary endpoints. People who say that, um, they change their process based off of short-term random variance, like I'm going to clarify on the one that you said don't play over minus 160. 

54:04 - Zack Phillips (Other)
You're referring to people who say in general, as a general rule, correct, not on this specific play, don't go past minus 160. 

54:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Just want to clarify and these are just topics we've covered in the past before, right, anyone who's listened to past episodes. But yeah, that's a. 

54:18 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That's a general giveaway that the person is probably not all that sharp yeah, but, by the way, like all of these are not rule of thumbs, there still could be examples like you mentioned. Don't like if someone says buying half point, 99 out of 100 people who say buying half point it's. It's dumb, but it's. I'm not saying that you never buy a half point, any scenario, right? 

54:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
yeah, of course. Again, there's like an exception to every rule, like there might be a winning better that posts their bets without vig, but for most betters that are price sensitive 99 out of 100 times. 

54:50
This is gonna this is gonna help you most betters that are price sensitive are going to post their bets with VIG or they're going to say I would play this up to a certain number because most winning bettors are price sensitive. The buying half point is a great example from what you said. But yeah, most winning bettors have a process that works for them and they're going to evolve over time. Like I'm not the same better I was three years ago or six years ago, and people evolve. But if I have two bad nights in a row, I'm not going to change my entire process and be like I need to get in the lab. I'm going to wake up earlier in the morning to cap a little bit harder. It's like no, that's, that's ridiculous type of situation, right? 

55:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
also for anyone who gives out pics. The transparency for me is the biggest thing by a mile. Like, if you're giving out picks and you're tracking them all on bet stamp, for example, and they're all verified, then you're just open with your profile and everything like that and people can see it. That is the strongest indicator that someone is who they say they are or is going to achieve those results in the future. Right? It's not like if you, if you don't give out your picks publicly, power to you. There's a lot of reasons why it's not smart to give out your picks publicly, right, so there's no reason to. We have a ton of people, thousands of people, who are on twitter right now that don't give out picks, but they will track them all in bet stamp and they will keep them hidden so that they can I'm one. 

56:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm one of those, and rob is one of them right, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? 

56:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So if you're saying like, ah well, what if I just don't want my picks out there? Why you have to give out picks, johnny, why don't you give out picks? I don't give my stuff out because I don't need it out there. I don't have a reason for it out there, and whether someone knows how doesn't matter to me and I don't want that out. But for people who are selling stuff some selling pics or even just posting pics regularly having them track third party is probably the biggest deal I would look for right now at the given moment. And the best part about that is if it's third party track, like on a site like betstamp where it's verified, everything like that and you can't delete, you can't pass posts, you can't do any of these things then you know directionally that that person is a little bit more trustworthy than if they are not doing that. Even if they're saying I've got it on a spreadsheet, it's like, okay, now you're just trusting that person and not a third party that's verified. 

57:04
Tens of millions of bets over the past year in bets, like you know, we've got so many data points of points like we don't change bets, we're not altering stuff. We don't do anything like that. If someone messages saying like, hey, I'm down 28 units, can you reset my profile, the answer is always no. Unfortunately we're unable to do that. It doesn't work like that. Stick behind your record, hopefully you know best of luck in making it back. So I think that's probably a big one, even for people who are posting picks to see where they're. Where are they tracked. If they say I don't track them, it's also a red flag. 

57:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Big time. That's one of the biggest. I mean, listen, if they have their own Google spreadsheet or they track their own plays, that's fine. But I, off the top of the show, referenced exactly how that can be manipulated by people and it is all the time and that's not to say everyone does it. There are honest cappers out there that will track their own record and they'll do it 100% properly. Those exist, but it's a minority, sadly to say. But there's tons of stuff Manipulating trends to help them look good, right, you can always do that. You can easily manipulate trends, like in your own betting patterns. I'm hot Nine and one Last 10. Nine and two last 11. Nine and two last 11. You know, stay a LODs. Betstamp has a great tool where it's very easy. Now Somebody posts a pick and they tell you what sports book it's at. You can easily go into the line history on Betst and say, no, it wasn't. 

58:32 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
This does not exist yeah, and the other thing with that too is if someone's posting and you're constantly seeing that they're picking off a slow book and then you go to bet stamp, you can see that as well. You'd be able to just look in it. 

58:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Every single thing's there the time stamp, the bet stamp, everything whether they're betting overnight mature markets, picking off news, picking off off market, numbers varying unit size. 

58:50 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Another thing like they're betting, okay, they'll bet 100, then now next week you're betting 20,000. Like you went from $100 unit to a $20,000 unit. Doesn't make sense. 

58:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But we're 92 episodes in. I hope we've armed enough people here with content and educational material that can help you improve. And that's sort of what I was getting at. My DMs are always open on Twitter at Rob Pizzola. I do answer them. You can reach out to me anytime. Johnny created an email address for contact a few weeks ago, Do you remember? 

59:21 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
it. Yeah, you can still contact it. Circles off at betstampapp. 

59:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There you go and the comment section on YouTube. We read them every single week. I honestly don't care if you rip me, if you rip Johnny, I sometimes laugh at those as well. I know they really get under his skin. I hate the hate man. He hates the. He's a. But honestly, it's all helpful and if there's a topic you want to see us cover or a guest you want to see us have on, we read those every week and we try to incorporate those elements in the show. So we're always trying to move forwards here and make this a better episode, make this a better podcast and good content for everyone on YouTube. Once again, if you're in Ontario, make sure you check out Pinnacle, the world's sharpest sports book, proud sponsor here of Circles Off, if you're listening in audio rate and review five stars. This has been episode number 92 of Circles Off. We'll catch everyone next week.