00:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
On this week's episode of Circles Off, we're joined by fellow sports bettor, brock Landers, based in New Jersey. We're going to go through the entirety of his sports betting career, how he went from recreational bettor to a bettor that's earning a decent living off of betting sports. We'll get into more of that horse racing, a bunch of other topics. This week's episode of Circles Off starts now. Come on, let's go. Welcome to Circles Off, episode number 103, powered by Pinnacle Sports, right here, part of the Hammer Betting Network, rob Pizzola, joined by Johnny from Betstamp. What's going on? 103. 

00:35 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Number three who do we got Rob Russell Wilson man? 

00:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Russ. 

00:40 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I can think of a legend. 

00:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What was the promo that he cut that you used to love Broncos Nation? No, not that Obviously that one, but there was one where he would call himself like Mr. 

00:48 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh, Mr Unlimited. Mr Unlimited is the best promo. 

00:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Mr Unlimited, it's so awkward and uncomfortable yeah. 

00:57 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Russell Wilson. Yeah, that's stupid ass, but you know what it is, what it is. Best of luck to the Broncos. I got a good one. Okay, he's actually the previous Leafs captain before John Tavares. It's a double Dion. Dion Fana he was actually the direct preceding captain, Like we just didn't have a captain for years. 

01:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I actually forgot about it. I completely forgot he existed. 

01:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
We made him captain. He was on the team for years, he left the team and then we just didn't have a captain. For at least was it three or four seasons, no captain. And then we got. I remember when. 

01:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Dion Phaneuf came into the league. He was amazing World juniors too, just an amazing player. And then I don't know what happened to him. But there's a lot of good number threes in sports. One of my personal favorites, favorites, alan iverson cut who actually cut the best. I mean unintentional promo of all time with, like the practice, oh yeah, for sure, like that's so good. Uh, alex rodriguez, babe, ruth war number three. Uh, jeff feinberg from the hammer betting network also watches every circles off episode. So I have to say derwin james, or else he'll get really upset, because that's like his favorite player and he would. He would actually message me on the side and get upset if I didn't say Derwin James. We look on our TV that we see here of ourselves very, very red today. Is it the lighting? I hope it's the lighting. I came back from a fishing trip and I definitely burnt my entire forehead and nose, which was really red. But do the? 

02:28 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
allergies. 

02:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh man, the allergy season allergy season has been rough for me this year, like super rough so far, but so, uh, we do have a guest today. We do have a guest. We're gonna talk lots of things with our guest today. Uh, lower profile, I don't think that he's done much in terms of media before. I like to go into these interviews, kind of like blind a lot of the times, and just really get to know the person. But we're going to talk to Brock Landers about a lot of betting. He's based in New Jersey, but before we do, I do want to remind you this could not be possible without our sponsors and friends at Pinnacle Sportsbook. 

03:05
Pinnacle is available to bettors in Ontario. Find out what pro bettors have known for decades. Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. You must be 19 plus, please play responsibly. And, of course, not available to those in the US. And I think we're going to get into some topics regarding the, as we do with a lot of pro bettors out there the sharp betting model versus the rec betting model and, again, one of the advantages to Pinnacle for those out there people complain they start to win in the sports betting space. They get cut off at sports books. They can't bet there anymore. Their limits are so small. Pinnacle won't do that to you. They're going to take your action no matter what. So if you're in Ontario, you're looking to get down, you win at sports betting. You never have to worry about getting your action or your limits slashed at Pinnacle Sportsbook. 

03:53
We now welcome in our guest for this week. He is a sports better based in New Jersey, recently quoted in the Washington Post we'll get to that a little bit later as well. Big baseball nerd. You can follow him on Twitter at BrockLanders41. Brock Landers steps up and in on Circles Off. How's it going? 

04:12 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Going great guys Just enjoying another day of betting baseball here and, you know, looking forward to Memorial Day weekend coming up. That's pretty much, you know, one third of the season down and you know weather's getting nicer here in New Jersey so it's nice to get out there. But everything else going good. 

04:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I see a fellow better part of the Hammer Betting Network, Hitman, is hitting the links pretty much every day now in New Jersey, as I see on the app that we share together, so I'm glad that the weather is better there. For those you know that are new to Brocklanders not familiar with you, give a personal background on yourself and how you got involved in sports betting yeah. 

04:51 - Brock Landers (Guest)
So I pretty much stumbled upon sports betting. Just, uh, you know, years of playing fantasy sports, um, you know that was pretty much the only thing you, you kind of, were able to do like low-key when you were in high school and getting into early college was I was just in fantasy leagues and it was, you know, join our pick them contest at the end of the year and stuff like that. So you get to a point where you know I started winning some leagues, you know consecutively back to back to back, and just kind of said, like what can I do now? Like going forward, and uh, you know, I kind of branched out, just, you know, listening, hearing more about how people are betting, you know, using, like I'm trying to think, when I got to college there was like a sense sports app and these kids were like trying to figure out how to make you know $2, $3. And then I was like I'm not good at this, I don't know what I'm doing really. So that just kind of like kick-started everything. And then, uh, I had a year where, like I didn't do well in like a pick'em spread contest and, uh, I started kind of like researching, like professional football betting and stuff like that. And somehow that got me on to like the megapod, gil alexander stuff, and it's like I just learned a lot of stuff just from that show alone. That I used in like those contests and like I won one or two of those like back to back and I was like I think I should probably start looking into like how to get to the next level and how to be serious about this stuff. And then, uh, you know, asked one friend, do you know where I can get a bookie? And that turned into here's an account and you know that just kind of grew. 

06:33
And then when I found out that like well, vegas is the only place you could go to like legally bet, that started turning into like you know, the, the september trips out there. And then I found out about you, you know, super Contest, and I think Super Contest, the first one I entered, that was like the big litmus test for me. It was like if I think that I'm good enough at, you know, picking spreads and I can kind of finish somewhere in this, you know top 1000, I'll be happy and think, like you know, I'm getting somewhere. So when I first year I got there I wanted to say I finished like 130th or something and I think that was kind of like I'm on the right track with this stuff. But I'm not fully there and it just kind of branched off and listening to more podcasts and picking people's brains and coming across people and a lot of it to just applying. 

07:22
You know, a lot of people hear stuff and they don't practice it, they don't apply it. And you know, I wasn't afraid to fail. It was always. You know, I was told by a couple of people be prepared to lose, be prepared to. You know, try things until you figure out what you're doing. And I mean it took a lot of failing. I mean, you know, early twenties, mid twenties, it took a while to kind of get used to how to get to the next level and then when legalization hit, it was like everything changed. 

07:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know yeah, we're going to get into that shortly. So you obviously mentioned super contest weekend. For those that don't know, that's an NFL betting contest. You also mentioned being involved in fantasy sports prior to betting and, uh, just based off of your Twitter bio, I see baseball nerd in there, which is how I introduced you. What are the sports that yeah, let me give a plug here for Pitching Ninja. 

08:11 - Brock Landers (Guest)
There you go. 

08:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I didn't notice the full shirt right there. So there you go, the Pitching Ninja shirt that he's wearing. But what sports do you predominantly wager on, brock? And like, how did that come to be? Was this just the sports that you were big fans of in the fan of in the first place, or was it eventually like these are beatable in the market? Just just walk us through that. 

08:30 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Yeah. So I pretty much started just like any normal person. It was just, you know, oh, I watch a lot of basketball, I think I could bet it. Oh, I watch a lot of football every Sunday, I should be able to bet it. And then you quickly find out that you know you can watch as much as you want, you could think you know as much as you want, and you know it's just a whole different world out there that people don't get. And until you get your ass kicked a couple times, you kind of realize, hey, um, something that I'm looking at or something that I'm not seeing is not working and you know this and that. But for the majority I mean my, my, you know, menu options have kind of changed. It was usually just when I was younger and recreational. 

09:08
Starting out, it was just a losing better, it was just whatever was on, whatever season was going on, it was, hey, I got some time and let me try to, you know, pick a few games and see what happens. And you know you go through the ups and downs of constantly. There's some weeks where you win and then there's some weeks where, like, you just keep losing and you're just like I don't, I don't get it. And then, um, I want to say, I read, I read a book, I want to say, or an article online it might have been and it was saying how, like the professional sports are like so hard to beat and it's like you should try to focus on like money line sports that you could do, like you know, tennis or golf, or maybe you should try like going into stuff like that. But it was one of those things where, like you know you, you want to bet football every sunday and it's like that seems like the good place to start and it's like that's the worst place to start, like it's the most, it's like the most efficient thing out there and it's impossible to beat. And it's like you know you start there and then you're like so happy that by that time oh sorry, by that time you get to the, you get like midway through the season and you're like I can't wait for this to be over and I just want basketball to start. And then you know you go through that and you know one thing leads to another. But you know, right now it's pretty much I go. 

10:26
I like to say like I start my sports year pretty much with baseball, as weird as that sounds like, from April pretty much right up to like all-star break-ish, is where I'm really just strictly baseball, like it's every day, it's a grind, it's constantly being into that. And then I'll kind of dabble into like just some stuff before football, like kind of like WNBA for a little bit, just to kind of mess around and a little bit of like summer league NBA. If I could get down, you know an OK amount of action on that, which is difficult. And then it's pretty much football I've really transitioned in like the last couple years. It used to be something that I took seriously, like from Monday through Saturday of just constantly where is this line going, where do I think it's gonna go, and this and that. Now NFL, I just try to have fun with it. I enter those contests out in Vegas now and I'm like if I could have a really good season just picking sides like, and at the end of the year collect something like that's cool me, like I'm happy with that. 

11:27
And uh, my nfl action at this point is pretty much just like maybe a first half total here and there, or I'll play like, uh, first touchdowns and stuff like that, uh, and then from there, I mean pretty much I transition to college basketball. Uh, once that starts for a little bit and I try to do that up until, like, the conference tournaments. I'm pretty ingrained in that. Nba was horrible for me this year, which I think a lot of people struggled with, but usually I do try to get some NBA in there, because sometimes on a Saturday with college basketball there's just so much going on and I'm a one person show Like I don't have a team. You know I'm not working with anybody, so it's like I can only see what I could see, you know, to a certain point. So I try to. I try to mix it up, but you know it's pretty much whatever's in season. I try to try to stick with the first couple of weeks. 

12:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I find it funny, though, that he said that you know, the betting season pretty much begins with baseball. For me, like, I consider April 1st or the beginning of April to be my, and then it's like, yeah, and then I get into like the college basketball tournaments, which are obviously in February and leading into March as well. It's pretty much a year round thing. If you're betting that many sports, I know you consider baseball the bread and butter, but it is. It does seem to be like a year round thing, just off topic, and we're going to get more into like the handicapping and and some advice for betters out there as well. But what's the origin of the, the nickname or the alias that you go by, brock landers? 

12:52 - Brock Landers (Guest)
so pretty much it's just an inside joke, uh, with a buddy of mine. I mean, we we were out of college and uh, we somehow started talking about movies one night and he was like you ever seen boogie nights? And I was like, absolutely, it's one of the the best films out there. And, uh, we just got a kick out of like the parody films that they they go through that montage and it's like brock landers and chest rockwell. And then we went through a period, too, like we would call like late night food places, like when we were coming home from the bars to like pick up food, and it was like let's just use fake names and we would just go like and rotate names here and there. And then one day he like just broke out the chest rock, well, and I was like brock landers, yeah. And then, um, I told the story, I think on 90 degrees, but then down the road I had a my normal twitter was just my real name from college and, um, I was applying to jobs and whatnot and I got into like a pretty extensive background check and I was like I don't want to change my Twitter name now, like it makes no sense, but if they're going to look at it, I guess I should try to do something. 

13:56
So I changed it to Brocklanders41. And then that turned into a whole thing where years later somebody was like, oh my God, you're the Brocklanders that was on some forum and ripped off a bunch of people and never paid people back and this and that. And I was like what, there's a guy that was out there, that was like that. And then I put the 41 next to it and I was like I'll just distinguish myself because I'm a different Brock Landers. 

14:20 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Oh, tough, tough, that's a bad break. 

14:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, oh, tough, tough. That's a, that's a bad break, yeah yeah bad yeah, so so brock. 

14:26 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
One thing that I think we really wanted to ask you about was your betting style specifically. So you know, are you originating the games? Are you um, you're handicapping them top down. What's your style? 

14:37 - Brock Landers (Guest)
I'm top down all the way and I know I'm gonna get like a lot of heat for it because I know a lot of people on the show don't like the steam chasing line, grinder guys and whatnot. But for me that approach works the best because, as somebody who's a sports fan and I mean a lot of the games have passed me by when I was in college, in high school I could probably tell you every player, backup guys, this and that you get older, your priorities change, things change and it's like I can't name you know who some of these guys are anymore in some of these leagues and whatnot. But for me top down works because it's like I'm taking out all or any biases that I have pretty much. So it's like if I could just look at the board and read the market properly, good things are going to happen. I mean again, you could, you could handicap as much as you want and you could, you know, try to beat the numbers as much as you want, and you'll go through horrible stretches of where it's just nothing's working and then you rethink everything over. But for me it's top down and I mean it's. It's pretty much just you see where a line opens, kind of see where it seems to be trending. 

15:41
And for me, for whatever reason, baseball it's like I just have to treat every game as the same, like I can't, I can't go, oh, I'm going to put 3% on this game and 1% on this game. I kind of have to treat everything as one big giant board and I'm just flat betting each game and I, for me, I think that works because it's like with baseball, you're dealing with a lot of juice. I mean you're dealing with, if you want to take an under nine and a half, you're laying 120. You know, we know how hard it is to beat 110. So the more that I have of a card with all this different stuff, it's like it's a grind. I mean it's not fun. 

16:22
I don't like pride myself on playing every, every total or anything like that, but it's like for me that works. You know it's just, you look at a screen long enough and like I'm not going to just have one bet going out today. You know it's, you watch the screen and you predict where this is going to go. And you, you know you, you watch baseball every day and it's like, you know, I don't, I don't think this total is going to end at you know nine. I think it's going to be like eight, eight and a half, something like that. So it's just a lot of touch and feel and what, who's got the best numbers and whatnot. 

16:55
So what's the odd screen you're using? So I pretty much right now I'm using a blend. I mean I've been paying for dom best for two years now. So I mean I've been using that, the premium service, and then once bank odds came out, I've been using that as well and I kind of keep that up as well with limits and stuff. So I get my line alerts. But yeah, I use. I use both of them pretty much. 

17:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So you had mentioned that use the top down approach, and part of the reasons why is because it it kind of removes your bias on the game or whatever, because essentially you're betting someone else's opinion, like it's more than that, but like that's kind of what it boils down to. Now you're a huge baseball fan. You said you watch the games, you do fantasy baseball stuff like that. Do you ever get into situations where you're like, ah fuck, like I don't want to, I don't want to bet against this pitcher again, or like why does the market keep you know moving on this team or fading this team? Like do your biases inevitably, uh, creep in at any point? Are you able to just like, completely keep that out as a fan? 

18:02 - Brock Landers (Guest)
well, uh, I'm not embarrassed to say it, but like I'm a marlins fan, so when I see the marlins getting played against or something like that and it's, you know, a guy like like sandy or something's on the mound, I'll, I'll just kind of, let's just forget that game. You know, it's like I'm not gonna sit here and watch it later on it and be like, yeah, sandy's getting destroyed, but I made money, you know, oh cool, um, it's, it's definitely one of those things there's. There's some places I just try to avoid. Like you, like you said, if I see something that I just don't agree with. 

18:32
Like you know, last night the total was really high in Colorado, obviously they were playing out there and like Eddie Cabrera scares me because he walks a lot of guys and I was like kind of leaning to the under and lot of guys and I was like kind of leaning to the under and I was like I don't know, this could be a recipe for disaster. And then like, sure enough, everybody pitched the way they were supposed to and the game came under. 

18:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm like, oh, I probably left some money on the board. Yeah, yeah, it happens, I get it. I mean, uh, I let the fandom get in the way of of my betting sometime as well. To uh, to a fault, um right it is what it is. 

19:01
I mean we, we that's. That's the thing that sucks about being a sports better and a fan at the same time. Sometimes there's going to be some crossover that you don't want. Talk to me about Leafs playoff games, for example, and betting against the Leafs in the playoffs. Just don't want to have that happen. But we had Barry Horson prior to the baseball season. If you haven't checked out that interview, check out the interview with Barry Horson. It was great prior to the baseball season. Um, if you haven't checked out that interview, check out the interview with Barry Horst. It was great prior to the year. But one thing he didn't explicitly state it outright, but he did tell us a few times that or kind of led us to believe that his edge is probably diminishing and has been for years now. Um, how have you noticed that with your own personal betting? 

19:47 - Brock Landers (Guest)
And, like, how have you managed to continuously have success in baseball betting If that, if that's happening, Like I said, I think it's just because I play so many games that it's like I'm not letting one outcome affect. And like a lot of people too, like obviously they make their projections and like they may think a team is, you know, vastly underpriced. But there's 162 games. So it's like, you know, you're you playing, uh, baltimore today and losing a ton of money and you're like, oh man, my baltimore edge is off. And then they rattle off two weeks later a 13-game winning streak. And it's like, you know, you can't predict the season. 

20:27
And that's why I'm saying, like there's so much randomness in baseball, like that's for me it works, because it's like there's so many games and like, if you're just and like the totals aren't going crazy, it's not like in basketball where you could wake up and the under is you take under 215. 

20:45
And by the time the game closes it's somehow back to, you know, to 218. And it went all the way down to 213 at one point. Like baseball it's it's cut and dry. I mean you're going from nine and a half maybe to eight and a half, or seven and a half, maybe up to nine at certain points. So it's like you just bet enough of the games and like you just bet enough of the games and like you're gonna take some of the variance out. I think too many people try to just cherry pick with baseball and it's like, yeah, if you're gonna lay minus 180 on a on a favorite and that's one of your only plays, you know it's gonna be hard to make that back over time, you know yeah, for sure I I I agree with you. 

21:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, when you, when you do have we've talked about this many times before but like when you actually have a lot edges, you want to be playing as many of those as possible because it does decrease the variance in the long run. But what I'm interested with baseball. I'm very interested in baseball in general, partly because I used to bet. It had a lot of success and then I seemingly lost that success over the course of a season and I really haven't gone back to it since. But this doesn't only apply to baseball, it applies to lots of different sports. 

21:48
There are certain people that bet top down that just lose faith in a specific market because there's obviously volatility with sports betting. But there's times where you'll go through like a month or two months of whether that's chasing steam or getting out ahead of the line moves, good closing line value, and you're not getting results. And I've particularly heard that from people who use the top-down approach for baseball over the past couple seasons of like, I'm not really sure the market makers really know what they're doing anymore in this sport. Don't think that there's much of an edge. Would you agree with that? Did you have any times, I guess, where you've lost faith in the market altogether, where you're just like these moves are not paying off, I need to like revisit what I'm doing here oh yeah, big time. 

22:33 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Yeah, uh, I want to say october, uh, ish, into like pretty much, almost probably till the end of november. Uh, it was just like it seemed like everything that I was betting just wasn't working. And it was like I was just kind of spinning my wheels in the mud and I was just kind of like why isn't this working? And I'm like you know, this has been a brutal stretch. And then, you know, I even reached out to a couple of people that, like you know closely that I, you know, just talked to on Twitter and I was like I'm not winning right now, like it's just nothing's working. And it's like, oh well, it's still, you know, early in the season and markets may not be efficient and this and that, and you know, you just kind of you keep going at it. But like you lose faith, like you get to a point where you're like why am I embedding this if it's, you know, if I just have no confidence in it right now? And then, like you know, things turn around college basketball, same thing. 

23:25
Those first couple weeks were like horrible and like some people brought up in like a discord. I feel like that I saw. And it was like, you know, is anyone winning right now? Because it's like the sides have just been awful, you know, it's just like you could be taking plus nine and the game closes at like five and it didn't matter, like, like, it was just like crazy, stuff was just happening and it's like, you know, you just got to realize that it ain't perfect. You know it's not a perfect way to make money and you're going to go through the what am I doing? You know, aspect a lot and question a lot of stuff. 

23:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So when you go through that type of run, do you step back for a few weeks to evaluate? Do you just keep firing through it? I mean, different people have different approaches to this. I guess probably maybe your personality traits can contribute to that. Whether you're more of like a risk taker or risk averse person would affect. You know what you do in that type of situation. But let's say you like, let's use the October to November example for you, where you're losing over a prolonged period of time. Do you just keep betting through it? Do you take a step back and like maybe I'll take a few weeks off and see if things turn here before I get back into it? What was your personal experience like there? 

24:37 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Yeah. So I think that the first thing is to just kind of I would, I would, I always ask around. I'm always like, how are you, how are you doing with? You know, I try to talk to other pro bettors and it's always you know, how are you guys doing? You know, with everything that's gone. 

24:50
But I mean, I think I went back to like a great piece of advice that I picked up from a podcast and you know I have no problem quoting people or whatever that you know I I use stuff like that in my betting experience and like I listened back to an interview with uh elihu, uh pustitol I think that's how you say his name and his. One of the best things he ever said was you know, nobody went broke betting under their bankroll. So it was like I should keep firing this, this and this, but I'm, if it ain't working, let's take it back a little bit. You know, let's, let's not bet as much as I was betting and let's go back and maybe bet less games and maybe let's just try to see until I can start, you know, getting somewhere. So it was kind of cut back on how much you were betting for a little bit. 

25:40
And then the other thing is, too, like you said, a lot of it is personality. I mean, you know, there was mornings where it was like brutal, turning on the computer and looking at my accounts and I was like I don't want to know what happened yesterday, like it looks horrible and you just kind of have to block it out and you're like I got to keep fighting, you know. The other thing is, though, too, you get to a point where you start losing money from, like, your accounts and you're like, well, where did the money go, and why am I even doing this anymore? So it's like you do kind of have to maybe take a step back and, you know, maybe take one day off and say let me go clear my head and come back to this, and maybe things will get better. But, um, yeah, I mean it's, it's brutal. You, you question everything, and, uh, you know a lot of things I could I could relate to, um, as far as getting out of it is, and I went through this, like I want to say, like a month ago, before baseball was just starting, and, uh, basketball was kind of getting in towards the end Um, you know, just easy, what, when, who, where, why, where are you betting? 

26:39
You know how much are you betting. Maybe I have a, a, a hole in my game where I'm betting, you know more than I thought somewhere Maybe my bet sizing isn't correct and oh, I'm trying to bet into one of the sharpest numbers out there. That's why I'm losing, you know. Or maybe I'm paying way too much when I could find a better price somewhere else. So it's like you, when you go through those bad stretches, it's like question who, what, when, where, why, what am I betting on? And it's like sometimes you'll find little things there where you're like oh, I was off here, you know. 

27:10 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
How much tracking and like analysis are you doing? 

27:14 - Brock Landers (Guest)
excel sheet. I mean every week put my results in from each book that I bet into and just keep a record of that has that helped so far? 

27:24 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
like has tracking and analysis actually helped your, your betting, and like improving and identifying things? 

27:30 - Brock Landers (Guest)
yeah, 100, and that was the thing. 

27:33
I got to a point where, um, you know, just through legalization, like you know, you get to the point where you're betting into, you know, places like bet mgm, and you're winning, and the score was like an app that we had in new jersey for a little bit. 

27:47
I know you guys are familiar with um and like you get to a point where, like you really didn't even need like a dom best, like you could literally just see that there was just so much stuff out there that just wasn't moving and like as a, a rookie, basically better, who's now for you know, making money betting into these legalized books? You then get to the point where it's like I'm winning really easily and then, once that limiting starts, it's like why am I not winning anymore? And then when I found, like keeping you know good records, it was like, well, of course you know if you you couldn't take plus nine because it wasn't even there. Mgm had plus nine, but that wasn't even an option, you know. So it got to a point where tracking was a must and also, too, I had to clean up come tax season. You know exactly where my numbers fell and you know now I keep very, very accurate records of what's going on. 

28:44 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, for sure, and, as most people know, it's just super helpful to have all your stuff in one spot. Everyone has their own little system. If you're a pro better, and you know, depending on the accounts, you're probably betting everywhere, it's a lot more difficult. But if you're just, uh, starting out or in the middle tier, we always recommend using bet stamp as a as a tracker. You can track closing line value. Every single thing on it automatically does it, so you won't actually have to go and brock. You should try it out as well, uh, if you haven't um up. Next quick question this is something where I think you know we might have seen you post a bit about in the past. But, like you know how, how are you in terms of, like, futures betting, like what are your thoughts on that? 

29:27 - Brock Landers (Guest)
I love futures betting. Um, I think it gets sometimes a bad rap from some people. It's always you're locking up your money for a long time and you're betting into a whole percentage and you know it's really not a good bet to make. But in the last like three, four years, I mean, I've had a tremendous success with betting on futures and it's to a point where now it's like I look forward to, you know, betting futures pretty much because I kind of keep it separate from my daily stuff. So it's like you know I've had some really good wins in the last couple of years and you know I don't see a point in stopping. You know it's part of my game now. 

30:05
I mean, I was down Atlantic city for the super bowl Everybody was betting super bowl and I was trying to find MLB award futures to bet that weren't really there yet. So you get to the point where futures are definitely a big part of my game and I think they're useful. I think if you keep them separate they can be very beneficial and I think at the end of the year it's a nice way to you know if you have a good. 

30:31 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
what's that? That's a nice little boost to the profitability. Yeah, oh, absolutely. 

30:35 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing when they, when they do hit, it's like man, that's really nice, you know you have any uh advice for any aspiring like baseball better specifically, it's tough. 

30:48
I think a lot of people. There's so much data that's out there that I would say don't get caught up on all of it. You know, like baseball can be a very overwhelming sport with statistics like the sabermetric stuff that's out there. I mean there's stuff out there that I don't even really know the actual answers to as far as like what it actually tracks and how efficient of a number it is and this and that. So I do think a lot of people try to go about modeling baseball and stuff and they're taking way too much information in and trying to make something out of it. And you know, like I, I, you got to respect the market. So it's like if there's really something that you're stumbling upon that is not factored in at this point, it's pretty crazy. 

31:31
I mean, um, and the thing is I would say like, like I said, as cliche as it sounds, but it's like it's such a long season that you can't take one bad week and go baseball sucks. I'm done Like you got to stick in there and just go with it, like it's going to be good at times and it's going to be bad at times, but I mean, that's like everything you know. I would say just stick to it and just really be immersed in it. Some people, you know oh, there's a Thursday baseball game, let me bet it today. And it's like well, if you haven't bet baseball like all week, why do you think trying to cherry pick one game on a Thursday because you want to bet it and you're out, you know like you know, you're going to have an edge or something like that. 

32:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The first point you made made, I think, is a big one with baseball. I call it paralysis by analysis. I think, like there's so many metrics and stats that people use sometimes that, like you can make an argument for I mean, this isn't just baseball, really, if you're, if this is the issue, I think, with like handicappers and handicapping the games, if you ask me with to pick up, like any team on the board on a given day, I can make a an easy argument using statistics for any team that's on the board, right? Um, and there's just so much to deal with in sports. It's kind of like separating what matters from actually what doesn't matter, but that's uh, that's interesting because it's a piece of advice I would give to some people as well, it's like, who just over complicate things for for no reason whatsoever. Um, I want to talk about the scene in new jersey brock, because you're based there. Um, how, how has regulation in new jersey over the past few years changed your outlook as a better? 

33:10 - Brock Landers (Guest)
so I I want to say like I'm not going to completely put it down, because it is it is great to have a lot of apps available, and especially to if you're somebody who's gone you know this long with not betting sports before you really weren't sure about how to get involved. It's cool that you can legally do it now and really have no, you know, issues with that. And it's very easy to set up an account, withdraw deposit. You know, and very you know, the apps are easy to navigate. But I think the biggest thing is, like you know, you take somebody like me who, like I said, used to make trips to vegas to bet on football once a year and it was like, wow, it's so cool, like it's in our backyard now, like we can do this whenever we want. 

33:54
And then you get to a point where, like, you become good enough and you put the time into it. 

33:59
And then you get to this area where it's like, what, I can't bet at mgm anymore. What uh draft kings wants to send my bet for approval and they'll only approve 25 right now, oh my god, I can't bet more than uh, you know, 50 bucks on a first touchdown because this guy is 20 to one and they won't write the bet, and it's like they, they sell you that dream of like, yeah, yeah, come play with us, come play with us. And then, if you do get good enough, it's like no, you're showing the door. So it's like, you know, there's there's good in it and there's bad in it, and it's one of those things that you know, I I was somebody who obviously was just doing this recreational and for fun put in the time hours that it took to figure out how to win and ask all the questions and meet the right people, and then you have all these books at your disposal and now it's like you can really only use like maybe three or four that are, like you know, somewhat decent. 

34:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Now you were quoted in the same Washington Post article article that I was quoted in and ellie who and some of the other usual suspects, and I'll read the exact quote they used from you. It's kind of crazy that we thought regulation would clean up all the issues with illegal gambling. It's not like anything has been solved, though. Uh, I'm curious do you think that the predominant business model that's being used now by sportsbooks which which is like the recreational model which you're describing, pandering to the majority of bettors but mostly losing bettors, people who don't show any signs of winning in the long run Do you think that that is ever going to change, at least where you are in New Jersey? What do you think the outlook is there? 

35:37 - Brock Landers (Guest)
I don't see it changing. And the thing is I don't know why it would like what. What would possibly change that, Like they're, they're still running crazy amounts of ads. I mean you can't go anywhere without seeing a billboard or posted somewhere Come bet. And I mean, I haven't heard. 

35:55
I go out on the weekends. I hear people next to me that are betting the game that's on there. So it's like, of course, as long as you still have these people and these young kids that are, you know, eventually of age, that can bet and it's you know, boot the winners out. Oh, this guy has a pulse and can win. Oh, he's out. But hey, we'll take this guy who just deposited you know four grand from his bank account uh, we'll let him play and his eight game parlays that he puts in every five minutes. 

36:22
So it's like I just don't see how it could possibly get better. It's only gonna, I guess, improve if you make enough noise, but it's like even that. It's kind of like oh, the, the guys who know how to win, like you know they're, they're crying that they can't, they can't play here. So we don't care. You know, it's like I, like you know they're, they're crying that they can't. They can't play here, so we don't care. You know, it's like I really don't know what the answer would be to that. I mean, I would hope a place like a circuit gets to New Jersey and stuff like that. But also, at the same time it's like I really can't see why one day DraftKings is just going to wake up and go hey, come back and bet with us. You know, we'll take your action again and you'll be back to normal and we'll go ahead with you, you know. 

37:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I think there's a lot of betters who are living from betting that obviously have an edge at sports and there's a sense of frustration when they can't bet into advantageous lines, and I completely get it. I'm one of those betters. There's also the other side of things, where sportsbooks are running a business naturally and they want to return as much profit as possible. So I do tend to ask this to a lot of bettors who complain about it, right, and I get very different answers. I'm not calling you a complainer or anything, but obviously we share the same mentality that we don't think it's fair, necessarily that some people get some limits and others don't. But if you were a sportsbook operator yourself let's say you're the CEO or president of some sportsbook company you get to make all the decisions Would you do? 

37:45
anything differently than what a company like you know, DraftKings, is doing in the space now, with you know, catering to the rec player Would. 

37:54 - Brock Landers (Guest)
I do anything differently? 

37:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, If you were in the position where you could run a book, would would you? Would you do anything that's different from what the recreational book models are, are do, are doing now? 

38:08 - Brock Landers (Guest)
I mean I would try to do something to. I think like one of my biggest problems that I have is these books put up future prices on on guys to win MVP or awards and stuff like that, and at the end of the day you go to bet it and it's like, no, we'll only let you bet, you know, $15 on a 40 to one shot. So it's like if you're not willing to take a full 40 to one shot wager, why make it 40 to one? You know, it's like let let somebody look at that alone and go, hey, they're only offering this guy 20 to one and he's like 41 everywhere else. That'll just put off a tip to me. Hey, they don't want to take any more action on this guy or they're afraid to take more than a hundred dollars on a 40 to one shot. So now that the guy's 20 to one. 

38:59
So it's like I would try to do things that are just obvious signs that are like, hey, we really don't want this, so we'll try to take it away. Or everyone always says post limits, say, hey, you know, this will be a thing where we will take at least five hundred dollars from somebody on a side or a total, no matter who they are. You know, even if you're flagged as sharp, we'll still. We'll still let you do five500 bets, or we'll let you do $250 on a prop or something. I don't bet props, I don't know how much that would be, but just one of those things where make some sort of a posted limit that's universal for at least everybody at some point. 

39:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm going to pick up on the last thing that you said there. Why don't you bet props? Out of curiosity? 

39:39 - Brock Landers (Guest)
on the last thing that you said there why don't you bet props out of curiosity? Just because I'm very weird and difficult when it comes to stuff like that. When I hear people say, like, start with the easy stuff, or like, oh, sides and totals are the hardest, don't start there, like I'm always like no, let's start there. Like when I started to learn how to play golf, it was always you always learn how to hit your driver, learn how to you know chip and putt, basically, or learn how to use your irons. So that's the thing. That's all I worked on was trying to hit you know my irons pretty much, and putting and chipping, and that's the thing. 

40:12
Now, you know I probably can't drive as good as I probably should, but it's like I spent all that time doing that. So it was one of those things that was like props are going to get you banned. Props are the low hanging fruit. Props are easy to beat. So it was always like, all right, if that's going to get me kicked out anyway, why would I try to go through that, you know? So it's, it's just one of those things that it's just like I know that they're there and I'm sure I could, you know usually scoop up some, some easy stuff, but it's like I'd rather just focus on the side and totals. 

40:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Brock is like the actual complete opposite of Johnny, both from the props perspective and from Johnny. Like he's 95% of the shots he's going to practice our driver. Like we have like a simulator in the in the bet stamp office and this guy's just hitting the big stick like nonstop, nonstop. 

41:00 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Listen, I'm not. I'm not breaking any records on the course. So the best value is if I can at least hit a, a like step up to the first tee, hit an absolute bomb down the pipe. Then at least people think I'm good for at least one shot. 

41:14 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Right. 

41:16 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
By the end either way by the end they're, they're going're gonna know. 

41:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not good at golf, but I can at least maybe fool them for a hole. Yeah, I mean, it's all. I will get off the golf conversation in a second. But the first time I golfed with johnny he goes he's a lefty and he'll go up to the first tee and he's aimed, like he's aimed into the tree line on the right, like and I'm like, what are you doing, man? He's like, trust me. He's like it's, it's gonna come back and like not only did it. 

41:41 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
That was when I first started. 

41:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That was when he first started, so he doesn't want to be that guy anymore who's on the first tee. That's just like aimed out into the highway on the right to play this, to play this slice. 

41:49 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So uh, correct, since corrected that. But uh, no, obviously like it. The the fun, I don't know. I agree with you what you said in terms of like, if you want to actually get good, you're eventually going to have to master the major markets, but at some points it's I don't know it's not bad to win. 

42:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
For sure, agreed. I think this is a really good topic for you, brock. We haven't talked about it, I don't think with I'm trying to remember back other guests, but I don't think it's come up in a long time. Um, and that topic is scaling the operation. Um, so I want to get into the view that with you a little bit. Um, cause I don't think it's talked about enough, but lots of people can win in sports betting, right. 

42:33
Um, for a lot of people, that light bulb will go off, they'll finally start to realize when it's happening. Um, for a lot of people, that light bulb will go off, they'll finally start to realize when it's happening. And then, in New Jersey or wherever people may be betting in the regulated market, uh, naturally what's going to happen when you're winning is a lot of those outs are going to dry up. So over the course of years, I know I've I've talked to mutual contacts who know you as well, and one thing that they would pat you on the back for is your ability to scale your operation. Walk me through the last few years for you, starting with regulation in New Jersey, and basically how your betting had to evolve in order for you to continue to keep getting down the amount of money you need to sustain your lifestyle. 

43:13 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Yes. So I think that's the hardest thing is, you get to a point where you start beating the sports books that are that are legal apps, and you get to that point where, well, I can't bet here, I can't bet here, I can't bet here, I could bet a little bit here. Lot of it just has to do with time. You know, if you have the time and you could start, you know, bearding your action and stuff like that, sure, that's, that's one way to go around all of that. You could, you know, get multiple people who can give you accounts in those places and still keep winning. But I didn't. I didn't really go that route, just because I didn't have the time to go through what was required. 

43:56
I kind of explored that avenue a little bit and I was like you know, I just I don't have the time to do this. So I just kind of reached out to people and you know, you hear it all the time it's like you still need to try to find the locals and the you know paperhead type places where you know you get a login account and you settle up at the end of the week and you know, and you settle up at the end of the week and you know that's still one way to get your action down, but it gets to a point, even though with that too is like you know, I have some accounts that I've had for you know, a couple of years now and it's, you know, you only have a $5,000 credit limit and you can only bet $250 per game and you can only bet NBA totals from, you know, 10 am to tip off or something like that. Or there's like all these minute rules. So it's like, even if you wanted to try to get down you know a dime or something like that, you still have to do it through multiple accounts is what I find. Because the other thing is too, I don't have the technology, I don't have the bots, I don't have enough accounts that I can bet 250 over five accounts and just go, oh, I'm going to take this number from Buckeye or whatever. 

45:13
So it's one of those things where it's like you know you the luxury of doing that. You know like I'm not going to go and take a bad number somewhere just because it's available to me. You know, like I have like a book that offers, you know, usfl lines and stuff like that, and they're all minus 115 or minus 120, both ways, and it's like for the $200 that I can get down on it, it's not even worth it, you know. So that's the hardest part is just trying to adapt and you know, with that it gets harder. 

45:42
You know, sometimes you get a paperhead account that's almost identical to Chris it's or you know it's identical to Circa moves within motion. So it's like long term I'm not gonna win there, you know. So it's like what's the point of of trying to even bet there. But it's part of the challenge. I mean, you want to get better, you want to get to the point where you know you could keep betting somewhere. So it's you try to make the best of it and keep the account going and if they pay and you pay on time, it's like you're working for each other, basically. 

46:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
How aggressive are you in finding other outs? Like we've had people tell us like they go to their barber shop and you know they're just talk to other people there and get accounts. I mentioned I think I told this story on the podcast before but when I was with with Joey tunes came to Toronto and how he's just, we went to a blue Jays game and he spent half the time trying to get accounts from people at the at the game. How aggressive are you with that stuff? 

46:39 - Brock Landers (Guest)
and and like do people actually just reach out to you separately on twitter, um, for partnerships and stuff like that. I had, like, uh, one or two people kind of just approach me and sometimes, like you know, you're you're bullshit meter. You're kind of just like this seems wrong. You know they're like this, this can't be true, or whatever. And you know, sometimes you get people too well, let's take a percentage and then I look and I'm like, for the $250, I'm able to bet on a side. Now I have to split it with you. It's like you know what's, what's the point of that. 

47:05
But, um, you know, I've been kind of lucky, though. I ran into a couple of good people that I networked with and, uh, you know, I actually had like some random ones out of nowhere where, uh, I remember one day back, probably like 10 years ago, uh, just bullshitting in between sets at a gym with my buddy and some guy overheard me and he was like, hey, uh, you're looking to get like an account and like that guy has, you know, still been true and everything is he's still on my accounts that he used. So it's like you never know where you're going to get one from. Sometimes, um, I actually had somebody to reach out like around football season and he was like, hey, this guy asked me if I wanted to bet, but I said I might know somebody who does, and it's like you know, some person tells some person, and you know that's how you kind of get them. But, um, yeah, like you know, I don't know if I'd go to a baseball game, though, and start asking people around like joey toon. 

48:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, he has no shame. We all know that hashtag. Feed me. Um, what's your day-to-day look like right now? So we're in baseball season. Um, you mentioned you like to golf a little bit. How? How long are you at a computer? Because I mean, listen, I more respect to you if you don't have the technology to be able to mass bet at once. So you're doing a bunch of hand betting yourself, obviously a little bit more time consuming, but you know what does your week look like? How much is being invested into sports betting? Do you get away? What are the leisure activities? Just walk us a little bit through that do you get away? 

48:39 - Brock Landers (Guest)
What are the leisure activities? Just walk us a little bit through that. So I got a couple other things that I do. I mean, you know, sports betting is pretty much moved now into, like you know, my, my second form of income, I would say. So I kind of have a luxury of where I kind of run a business as well. So it's one of those things where I can kind of do all the business aspects either the night before or super early in the morning, get that stuff done, and then I'm able to pretty much just multitask while watching the screen. That's pretty much how that goes. 

49:06
But yeah, when baseball is going on, it's pretty much one of those things I'll bet in the morning or late at night. I'll look at the lines for tomorrow just real quick just to kind of see where things are, and when I wake up I kind of see if anything has changed. Um, but yeah, it's, it's pretty much to the point. Just morning, uh, lineups are coming out right now. I'm looking on the screen that things are starting to trickle in. So I'll just, you know, kind of re-look at my positions some places and see if I need to add more, or maybe I'll bet back a little bit on some stuff that may have changed, but for the most part, yeah, it's a full, you know, seven day a week, wake up, bet, you know, look at the screen and another week goes by. 

49:48
But yeah, I don't do too much traveling. I mean a lot of things, you know running a business. You kind of have to be here too for when things can go wrong and whatnot. So I probably don't get out as much as I probably should with the traveling aspect, and I'm also in that segment too where most of my friends are married, live in other states or this and that, so this lifestyle of being a better by myself kind of still works out. 

50:15 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Do you share publicly what the business is? 

50:20 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Do I share what Publicly? What the? Business is business is yeah, you don't have to if you, yeah, yeah that's all right. 

50:25
So I run a moving company and uh move furniture and pianos and stuff like that and uh family business for 40 years and uh, it's just one of those things we keep going, so might as well keep running it. And uh, I also have a real estate license, but sports gambling has kind of surpassed that for me. I'd rather sit in front of a screen and not worry about people trying to uh find the house that they want and go through that prospect and all that type of stuff. 

50:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
So respects, respects on that um question for you here is well, I mean, I was going to say like, as a full-time better, it's sometimes difficult to deal with the uh, you know the upswings and the downswings, but it seems like you know that's not even a valid question, cause if you got that base from, you know whether there'd be the moving company or something else. It takes a lot of alleviates, definitely a lot of that stress. What do you think, rob? 

51:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean, I'm interested so like I didn't know this about you going in in terms of like running your own business, so to speak. But you have two other people you're talking to here that kind of do the same thing and balance that with betting in some capacity as well. And it gets challenging at times when you have like a bunch of different priorities all at once and like a busier season with the business or a busier season with betting. And I've personally found it challenging and I'm just sharing a personal experience of mine, but like with time management when it comes to all running all these things at once. Right, and I obviously co-own a portion of Betstamp. We have the Hammer Betting Network. I do my own betting. 

52:00
I like to, you know, maintain my own personal sanity and I just go through these, you know, exhaustive periods, I would say, at times where it's almost like burnout, so to speak. And I'm just wondering, if you don't suffer from this at any point through the year, then like kind of what's the key to it for you? How do you get through the year without going through those types of periods? And if you do suffer from them, how do you deal with them? 

52:42 - Brock Landers (Guest)
It's a lot of it's trial and error. But the other thing is too, like you know, I've been running the business now for close to 10 years from where it was, and you know I worked so much through my early 20s and into my 30s I just actually turned 34 yesterday but it's one of those things that I feel like I did a majority of what needed to be done, like laying the groundwork in some cases for when I was, you know, younger. But now it's not as easy anymore, like I used to get to a point where I'd be working constantly. From the minute I woke up to the minute I went to bed, I was, you know, constantly in work mode. And how do we get better at this? How do we get better at that? What am I going to do about tomorrow? What am I going to do about next week? And it's stressful. And what am I going to do about tomorrow? What am I going to do about next week? And it's stressful. And yeah, there's, there is, I think, like a period of time where I didn't have a week off or a vacation for like two years, you know, and it was one of those things where then you do get burnt out and that sucks, you know you get to that point where you just want to be thinking about anything else that's not business related, but I just think so much of it. 

53:35
I kind of just learned as I went when I was younger and it was kind of like, hey, you know, you're young now and you have the time and energy to do it, so let's do it now. And you know, we look back at some of that stuff and it's just like I don't know how we got through it. And 10 years go by and it's like, you know, you just figure out a way to make it happen and try to keep sane by doing some stuff that you enjoy to keep your mind off of things. But I don't think there is no real easy way to do it. I mean, it's just, it's trial and error, it's prepare. The biggest thing is preparation. If you're prepared, you can handle what you need to handle and the stressful situations. You learn from experience. Understood, get it Good. Answer what? 

54:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
you need to handle in the stressful situations. You learn from experience. You know, understood. Uh, get it good answer. Um, we talked a lot about sports betting here, but I noticed recently um with the kentucky derby a few weeks ago, preakness this past weekend that you had been tweeting a bit about horse racing, which I I you know. I had not seen that from you before. So I mean, I'm just curious have you always been a horses guy? Was that something where you went to the racetrack where you were younger, or you picked it up as you got older? It's obvious that there's at least some level of interest in horse racing for you. 

54:49 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Yeah. So pretty much, I'll say even probably right before even fantasy got into like a daily thing in high school and joining leagues and stuff like that. My father took me to the racetrack when I was probably a sophomore, or I want to say in high school, and you know he was big into the game and had, you know, jobs where he worked on the track when he was younger, before he started his business, and he kind of at that age was like let me show you how to read a racing form. Let me bring it to the track one night, see if you like it. And he won actually like a decent amount of money and he wasn't like any type of a crazy gambler where he was constantly at the track or something. It was like one of those things where he's like, yeah, I remember training horses around this guy and you know he usually had good horses and I'm just gonna bet this and like he walked out of the track with like 800 bucks and I thought it was like the coolest thing. I was like, wow, he just won a bunch of money, like that's cool. So then, uh, it was like let's go next week and you know, let's, let's learn more. 

55:46
So I would say pretty much up until the time I got to like 20 years old, I was a pretty big horse racing fan. I would go to the track and I thought it was so cool that you could bet when you're 18, which was like a thing in New Jersey where it's I don't know if it's like that everywhere else but when I was 18, it was like I finally legally bet and I can go to the track and hang out and read the form and stuff like that. But yeah, I can read a racing form. I know the trainers, I know the jocks. It's not as big as it once was for me, like you know I still it's more of a father-son thing, like we share that bond of you know horse racing for whatever reason, and you know we still talk about it and whatnot. 

56:31
When we can, we try to get to the track a day or two here and there to visit some places. But yeah, and Rob, I was actually listening to what you said on your last episode and you were like never won a derby, like it's so ridiculous. And I was in that same boat until this past derby. Like I had match and I was like this is the first one I've ever hit and I was like I've probably never had another derby in my life. You know, don't need to. 

56:54 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Yeah, don't need to anymore, that's it. 

56:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, my, my, my horse racing story is pretty much the same as yours. I used to go with my father when I was younger and I just like developed a liking to a day at the track. Like day at the track, like I, I I think just a day at the track is such a fun and great experience. Like, yeah, you know, do it up. I, I do like the buffet in the morning or whatever. I walk my wife down to, like watch the horses trot out at the beginning, and you know she could pick the ones that she thinks look the nicest or whatever. Um, and like, I don't know, it's just a great experience. I, I really like it. So, um, yeah, it's pretty cool. I mean, we kind of's just a great experience. I, I really like it. So, um, yeah, it's pretty cool. I mean we kind of share the exact same thing. 

57:33
Uh, I really random question your twitter profile pic is charlie sheen as ricky vaughn in major league. Yeah, um, where does major league rank for you at amongst the greatest baseball movies of all time? Because I think that there's a there. There's like some interesting debates out there on like what's the greatest baseball movies of all time? Because I think that there's a there. There's like some interesting debates out there on like what's the greatest baseball movie of all time and uh, I'm pretty opinionated on this stuff as well, because I've watched a lot of these but where, where would you put major league in that mix? 

58:03 - Brock Landers (Guest)
I think major league's got to be like top five for sure, like definitely, definitely top five for sure. Um, I could probably make a case too that it's probably top three maybe. Um, you know it also too. It depends on like how, how baseball crazy are you getting. Are you going from strictly like a movie standpoint, are you looking like even to documentary type stuff? Are you looking into like profile biography movies? 

58:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So I'm talking strictly like motion pictures, like movies, no documentaries. You know, like the challenge with the baseball movies is you have like a movie like Major League which has like a comedy component to it as well, right, and then you have like Moneyball and Field of Dreams, which are just like the very serious baseball movies, and it's hard to rank those against one another. But I watched Major League probably like 50 times when I was growing up. I think, it's like for me it's definitely top three and arguably the best baseball movie ever. 

59:08 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Yeah, yeah. No, it's hard to, and I even like major league two is good, like a lot of people think. Like you know, oh, the first one, I'm not with you I'm not with you on major league two. 

59:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll push back a little bit there okay it's a little disappointing for me relative to the first, but yeah, yeah, you know major league more over the topness a little bit yeah it's a little bit ridiculous, but you got bull Durham as well. Bill Durham was a great movie, a league of their own, like what. I loved that movie when I was growing up but I'm like I guess I'm partial to the the ones that came out while I was. The sandlot as well was like another random one back in the day sandlot. 

59:43 - Brock Landers (Guest)
I have a crazy. I have a crazy friend who thinks the sandlot is not a top five baseball movie. And I'm like you're crazy for thinking that, like I, I don't know anyone could not have sandlot in the top five there is. 

59:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There is like a nostalgia thing to sandlot, where I watched sandlot a lot when I was younger. 

01:00:01 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
You go back and watch all these movies now. 

01:00:03 - Brock Landers (Guest)
They're all complete trash that's exactly what you're, the first time. 

01:00:06 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Now they're all trash but yes, sandlot was an incredible movie. 

01:00:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, like. 

01:00:11 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Zach put Benchwarmers our producers. The Benchwarmers is one of the all-time best movies. Gus Bus Dude like that is, and we're myself and Zach are a little bit more new school, but Clark, richie and Gus is the greatest trio in baseball history, and Howie when he walks at the bases loaded, that's the best movie. 

01:00:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm very curious. Actually, I think this would make for a good debate in the comments here on YouTube. So give us your best baseball movie of all time, but if you want, you can rank your top five or whatever. I'm sure we will get back a lot of very, very different ones, because there are a lot of good baseball movies. But to johnny's point, I think it's all nostalgia like. I think if you ask somebody now to watch these movies for the first time, they'd be like what? Like how did anyone enjoy this? 

01:01:02 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
this is a hot take but people love those like nostalgic shows like um, even more recent, as as like the office, how I met your mother, friends, all those like uh, sitcoms and like if you just go watch that for the first time now, a lot of people would have a very, very different opinion of the show. 

01:01:18
Like, ah, this doesn't yeah it's not like the same sort of like addictive show. But if you watch that growing up like friends, for example I didn't watch it growing up I don't really care that much for the show right now. It's whatever. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm not saying it's great, but there's so many people who just will watch every episode on repeat every night. It's just nostalgia. 

01:01:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The biggest thing for me is like I like the original Star Wars movies right, the originals that were made. But if somebody never watched Star Wars before and watched the first like episode four, five and six the originals that they're made, they're like how the fuck did anyone ever like this was good like this is horrendous and it's like this, a nostalgic component to everything we do. 

01:01:59
But I'm glad that you you share the vision on major league. I don't share the vision on major league too brock, but major league we can agree on there brock, you're in in New Jersey. 

01:02:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
Do you use every sportsbook in New Jersey? 

01:02:11 - Brock Landers (Guest)
All the legal oats I try to yeah, I at least try to use the ones. I mean, I'll be honest with you too, and I have to start branching out into the exchanges, because those guys have reached out to me for a couple months now. They're like you got to check this out, you got to check this out, and the thing is I'm just so ingrained in like the accounts that I have that are, you know, locals and you know, every seven days meet up and whatever. I've been so just attached to those and, like you know, I still have money in some of these, you know legal apps that I just keep there just for the hell of it. But some of them are just like pointless, you know, like I don't know it's. It's gets to a point where, like you, you know where you can bet certain things at certain places and then sometimes you know I'll just reach out to somebody and be like, hey, can you bet this for me somewhere else? 

01:02:58 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
I can't, you know fair enough um for anyone at home. If you are looking to sign up for any new sports books, new jersey has a ton um. If you're in new jersey or Colorado, indiana, ontario, arizona, any of the licensed betting states you can go over to wwwbetstampapp slash circlesoff. Zach will put the link in the description here. We're going to run something special for the next couple weeks. If you go sign up for a sportsbook, send us a screenshot of the process of you going and signing up. Dm it to us on twitter at circles off hq. We'll review the dms. We're going to give out a couple bed stamp hoodies um. So if you guys want to go ahead and do that, shoot us a note. Any sports book that's on there, sign up for it. We'll give you guys a hoodie. Um to some of the people we're going to do, we'll probably give out, depending on how many we get. Definitely we got at least 10 hoodies to give out do we still have? 

01:03:51
the usc colored ones, good chances. Uh, the sizing permitted you can pick. 

01:03:56
You can pick the color style. You've seen me wear most of them on the show, um, so we've got like the, the gray and purple that I'm wearing right now. We've got black and red. We've got red and yellow, usc style blue, baby blue, and it's a popular black and black and blue sizing permitted. So we can't guarantee your size, but send us some screenshots and we'll see what we can do. Brock, it's been a pleasure having you on. Thank you for the time. We have one final question. It's the same question that we asked to all of our guests here on circles off Brock, landers 41. If you could go back five years, talk to a previous version of yourself life advice or you're talking just sports betting advice, whatever. 

01:04:37
Whatever you want, make it something good. 

01:04:42 - Brock Landers (Guest)
Yeah. So I think I would just tell myself that time is so important and time is one of those things that just go so quickly and you don't realize it and you get to a point where you just keep, you build these tasks and it's like you just want to get to that, that moment, and then you realize a whole year has gone by and that turns into five years, turns into 10 years and it's like you know you lose some relationship type aspect and you know people come and go in your life. But it's also one of those things where, if you are focused on something and you keep going towards it, you know the hard work will pay off. And you know it's one of the things that comes with with going down that road of you know I'm doing my own thing and things are going to change. But it's one of those things that you'll look back and go. 

01:05:34
I'm glad that I sacrificed the time and the effort to do something to make my life better. And one of those things where you know you'll eventually run into people who have the same interests as you and you'll realize that you're, more you know, in the same boat as people that you may have never been in the same boat with before, and it's just one of those things that just time goes quick. I don't know. That's the best thing I could say. 

01:06:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sound advice from Brock Landers, who took his name from Boogie Nights. You can follow him on Twitter at BrockLanders41. Appreciate everyone who tuned into to this week's episode and to all the new subs. And if you haven't subbed yet, there's still over 45% of you out there who are watching this episode that have not clicked that subscribe button. If you got all the way through the episode and you're listening to me right now, hit that subscribe button. Set notifications for future episodes. We do appreciate it. Allows us to make this content going forwards and for more people to find it. And, of course, if you're listening on audio, please rate and review five stars. We got a one-star review last week, Johnny, because some guy was very unhappy with you saying that you can set the dice and throw them and make it land. I'm not exaggerating. 

01:06:45 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
He's like there's he one-star reviewed us, he one. He's like there's one star review, one star reviewed. I didn't say that that's a viable strategy. I said, scientifically that is possible and I wouldn't. I don't think like there's many humans that could do it. But scientifically you could manufacture a machine to do that. 

01:06:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's possible one star review, so wrong. One of the hosts believes in dice setting, that's what the review is. 

01:07:08 - Johnny Capo (Co-host)
No, no, he didn't actually like. I never even remotely said that I would do that or could do it, or that anyone I know could do it. I didn't. I just said scientifically it would be possible we need more five-star reviews to offset the one-star review that guys hook me up. Please get some five stars. 

01:07:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Rob's gonna cancel me off the podcast this has been episode number 103 of circles off. Thank you, brock landers, for joining us. We'll catch everyone again next week.